WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.720 You're listening to Big for Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:06.559 Tonight's account is from a retired detective who has come 3 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:10.919 face to face with an interesting area in the Adirondacks 4 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:15.759 of New York, bigfoot activity, and so much more. You'll 5 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.800 not want to miss this episode, so stay with us, 6 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:20.800 all right, Big the Society. You've got the privilege of 7 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:24.600 talking to Dave today. Dave is an individual that has 8 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:28.960 an interesting background. He's from the southern Vermont in eastern 9 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:32.840 New York area and he's been a lifelong hunter and outdoorsman. 10 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.079 Also has a background of being a retired police officer 11 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:38.880 where he was a detective for many years. So welcome 12 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:39.560 to the show, Dave. 13 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.439 How's it going, man, I'm doing good. 14 00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:47.479 Absolutely. We were talking a little bit before we started 15 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.000 recording that it's pretty rare to be able to get 16 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.640 individuals talking about Vermont on the show. So really glad 17 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.640 to have you on the show today and just to 18 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:01.159 hear some different things about what you've experienced and what 19 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.920 you've heard. You know, I'm going to go ahead and 20 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.439 pass things over to you, Dave, and feel free to 21 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:10.000 you know, take us back to the first account that 22 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.599 you'd like to share and what exactly happened that day. 23 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:16.239 Okay, sounds good. 24 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:21.879 The first one who is on the Vermont side. It's 25 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:27.400 probably in the late eighties, reflecting back probably eighty seven 26 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:33.519 eighty eight, and there's an area in southern Vermont the 27 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:39.879 people that listen called the Bennington Triangle, more specifically Glostonbury Mountain. 28 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:45.239 So at the time that time, back in the late eighties, 29 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.760 my brother and I had decided to go hiking, and 30 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.120 basically there's a fire tower on top of Glossombury and 31 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:58.359 we're looking to do the shortcut via the snowmobile trails 32 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.920 to get to the top versus the long I think 33 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:05.799 it's twelve thirteen miles if you come in from either 34 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:12.080 the north or the south. And so we were going 35 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.840 to do this just as a quick overnight and we 36 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:20.479 had gone up there for the most part following a 37 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:24.120 log road. Then we were trying to do the cross 38 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.520 country method and it was getting a little bit later, 39 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.439 and we didn't have a whole lot of gear with us. 40 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.800 It was summertime, so we basically had some rope start 41 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.080 or piece of plastic. I think my brother had a 42 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:44.560 military poncho or something like that, and it also looked 43 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:48.759 like it was going to be storming here shortly, so 44 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.039 we had to quit something to eat, set up our camp, 45 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.879 and probably an hour or so later it did start 46 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.639 raining thunderstorm, and we just basically called it a night. 47 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:05.919 Through the night after it rains, it's very quiet. The 48 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:13.120 grounds went Obviously, I was woken up and by something 49 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:18.719 stirring around in our little camp area. The other thing 50 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.199 is we we had to hike quite away in around 51 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.199 to find a flat spot big enough for two of 52 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:31.439 our little ten type things, and so we didn't have 53 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:33.360 a lot of room between them, I would say no 54 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:39.159 more than six feet, and whatever was moving around was 55 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:43.680 was moving kind of around the circumference of the camp site, 56 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.120 and then at one point it was actually between the 57 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:50.759 two tents and laying on the ground, I could actually 58 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.560 feel the impact of the when when the foot hit 59 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.599 the ground, I could just feel it in my body 60 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.680 and at the time just remember thinking what is that? 61 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:10.360 And nothing really, nothing else happened after that, listened to that, 62 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:15.599 and eventually it just kind of went away. And so 63 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.959 in the morning when my brother and I were talking 64 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.879 about it, I said, did you hear that too? And 65 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:23.040 he said yes, And we did a quick little recount 66 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.399 of the area to see if we could see tracks 67 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:32.879 or anything like that, and there was nothing. The only 68 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:36.839 odd thing that we did find was like the stone 69 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.600 post of a house or a cabin at some point 70 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:45.319 that was maybe seventy five yards away. But nothing, no tracks, 71 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.560 anything like that. And I've hunted my whole life since 72 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:55.680 very young. There's basically three animals deer, moose, and a 73 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:58.959 bear that could that are on the large side. 74 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:01.360 I've hunted in Alaska, so they. 75 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:05.160 Will walk through a camp, but this just didn't sound 76 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:08.759 like a moose. A bears very quiet in the deer 77 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:11.000 certainly with the human set is not going to go 78 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:21.920 anywhere near that. So Clostenberry's quite tall for a mountain 79 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:26.079 in the northeast, it's a little over thirty seven hundred feet, 80 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:31.199 and I would say we were probably two thirds away 81 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:38.639 up somewhere on there on one of those little shelves 82 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.519 at the time. You know, back then, the Big Vote 83 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:47.160 was a thing, but not really on the front pages 84 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.439 of everything, not common, and I never put that together. 85 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.040 Just we just wrote it off and moved on and 86 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:58.879 didn't really think too much about it. That's kind of 87 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:00.879 my Vermont side of that is. 88 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:06.399 That is very interesting, Dave. And it's an area where 89 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.800 you know, you mentioned the Bennington Triangle and there's so 90 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:11.759 many weird things that happened in that area. Probably listeners 91 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.680 are aware. I know Small Town Monsters is coming out 92 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.680 with a documentary soon on it. But I mean, you've 93 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:22.079 got missing people, you've got Bigfoot reports, you've got all 94 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:25.800 sorts of really weird stuff. Were you then at that 95 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.279 time in your life? Were you interested in Bigfoot or 96 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:32.360 aware of it or what was your relation to the 97 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:33.399 topic at that time? 98 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.399 At that time, I was certainly aware. I think when 99 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.519 I was very probably a teenager, we went and saw 100 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.240 I May Butcher the name, but the legend of Bobby Creek. 101 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:57.720 I was aware of the Patterson Gumblin pictures. But I 102 00:06:57.759 --> 00:06:59.959 think there was some TV shows that might have had 103 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:05.079 some big push stuff too, But it certainly wasn't on 104 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:06.519 my on my radar. 105 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:15.199 Gotcha so Stormy, Rainy. Were there any weird smells out 106 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.040 of the ordinary during that time? 107 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:27.920 You know, thinking back to it, Uh, the only thing 108 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.439 it's gonna sound weird, but like stale air, Like the 109 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.480 air was just still and stale, like a very human room, 110 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:38.519 walking into a human room. 111 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.519 Gotcha And it wasn't like a I'm just trying to 112 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:45.439 think of the last storm I went through out in 113 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.439 the Midwest. Not like an ozone type, you know, when 114 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:52.399 there's lightning strikes and you smell that ozone. Nothing like that. 115 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:59.639 No, okay, no, you know, we were uh that area 116 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.439 kind of it's on the eastern edge of the Hudson 117 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.680 Valley Hudson River Valley, so you can see quite a 118 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:10.399 ways out through depending on what other mountains might be 119 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:13.399 in your way. But so we could see the storm 120 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:14.439 in the valley. 121 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:15.240 And as it came. 122 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.000 But I don't recall any lightning anywhere near us, but 123 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:20.720 we could see some. 124 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.720 Oh, I'm definitely sure. It's it's such a beautiful area. 125 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.920 When you were looking around for tracks the next day, 126 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:36.240 did you notice any let's say, maybe any any broken 127 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.720 branches or anything that would have shown that something large 128 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.240 would have been walking through the area off the trees. 129 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:52.080 And no, and no moose tracks. You know. Since then, 130 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:55.600 since that time, I've kind of reflected back and like 131 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:59.080 I said, I've hunted Alaska with moose, and I know 132 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:04.519 what I'm looking for or you know, is whether it's 133 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:06.799 a cow or a bull they'll just charge right through 134 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.360 and they'll break stuff as they go along. So but 135 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:14.120 there was nothing and we didn't even see any kind 136 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.879 of tracks. You know, if it was a move, you 137 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.399 would see the impression in the ground, and we saw nothing. 138 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.559 Was there any Did this affect you emotionally in any 139 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.120 way after? Is it maybe just a thing where you're 140 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.120 just like, well, that was kind of odd hearing footprints 141 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:36.600 and not seeing anything after. 142 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.960 At that point in time, Yeah, that's really what it was. 143 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.759 It was like, well, that was weird and I can't 144 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:50.639 really explain it, but okay, and you know, since learning 145 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:55.480 more about that area, because the years progress, you know, 146 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:59.679 you can make an argument that it was definitely a 147 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:04.440 weird experience and I don't have answers for. 148 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:09.360 It, absolutely, And what you just said is kind of 149 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.120 similar to what I'm about to ask, you know, And 150 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:17.120 after this time, it sounds like then you became a 151 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:21.039 police officer or detective specifically, and so you're constantly looking 152 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.600 at anythings into two things. Did you did you at 153 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:28.799 any point look back at this time and say, oh, 154 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.159 you know, there's something else that happened close to this 155 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.960 area that was reported regarding bigfoot or something else. Any 156 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:36.039 connections like that. 157 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:45.000 The only thing a guy I knew one day, you know, 158 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:49.000 we were just we're just literally talking and we're talking 159 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.840 about weird things up on the mountain and this would 160 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:57.200 have been well into the two thousands, and he said, yeah, 161 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.720 I was riding my ATV up there, and you know, 162 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.919 I saw this and it was a flip phone and 163 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.759 it was a picture off a flip phone. And he's like, 164 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.799 what is this? And I looked at it and I'm like, well, 165 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.840 I don't know, but it's big and it's brown and 166 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:14.919 it looks like a gorilla. 167 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.879 And I tried getting that. 168 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:23.799 Picture from him, but he since passed and it's gone 169 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.519 to wherever now. But you know, and I told him 170 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:31.480 about the experience with something walking through our camp, and 171 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.000 you know, it would have had to have been something 172 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:42.320 very good on its feet, because these tents weren't very 173 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.879 far apart and only talking the foot or two between 174 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:48.600 the two tents, and to walk between them without knocking 175 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:49.559 things over is. 176 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:57.879 Almost like it was able to walk in a straight line. 177 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:04.039 It would have to, yes, exactly. Hmmm. I love hearing 178 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.639 stories like that where it's like you saw something on 179 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.840 a flip phone, because you know, in that time, you 180 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:12.879 didn't have to worry about AI photos or anything like that. 181 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:13.480 You know. 182 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.399 It's just it was a different time when it comes 183 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.919 to bigfoot photos. Even though stuff could be faked, it's 184 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:24.320 I think you had a less of a chance of it. 185 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.120 So that that's so, it looked very similar to a gorilla. 186 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.279 You were saying things you've seen before. 187 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.279 The picture. The color was like that of alliance that 188 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:46.159 that can brown color. And it was very muscular on 189 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:49.919 its front half and it was squat The front half 190 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.440 was taller. It was like a gorilla stands almost and 191 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.679 you know, the back was at an angle. It was 192 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:04.519 definitely going down on all fours. And and again I 193 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:08.200 don't know of any animals that are up there. The 194 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:13.559 state of Vermont probably has mountain lions up there, and 195 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.399 that's what you know, it could have been a rather 196 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:21.440 large mountain lion. They'll deny that they're there, but they're there, 197 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:25.759 you know, because the quality of the picture wasn't that great, 198 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:30.600 but it clearly was a large animal. Wow. 199 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:34.799 So it was definitely it was a front front view 200 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:39.480 of of whatever was in that photo. Then yeah, okay, 201 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.080 gotcha any any and I know you said it was 202 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.360 a low detail of it, we were able to see 203 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.200 that the head or the face at all. 204 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:53.799 Uh. And and again it looked just like a gorilla's base. 205 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.759 It was if I was looking at the picture, it 206 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:02.120 was a side profile shot looking to the right, and 207 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.679 the animal or whatever it was was looking right straight, 208 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.440 like completely to the right of the screen. So I 209 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:14.759 had a good profile shot. It's hard to judge size 210 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:20.559 or judge distance based on that picture, but forty to 211 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:28.559 fifty yards maybe, And you know, it had that I 212 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.080 hate to sound like everybody else, but that cone head 213 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:36.600 shape with the extended jaw right, and that's really what 214 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:37.200 it looked like. 215 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.440 That's wild, That is absolutely wild. 216 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.519 The thing that impressed me was just the muscular of 217 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:54.039 the shoulders and like the arms seemed to be very muscular. 218 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:59.720 Since that time, have you ever seen any other piece 219 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.440 of meat? Yeah, that comes close to what you saw 220 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:07.919 in that Uh, in that photo, I. 221 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:13.039 Have not having come from that area. There's always stories 222 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:17.600 and stuff. There was a story of one supposedly crossing 223 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:23.919 Group seven. Somebody supposedly admitted to that dressing up in 224 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:30.440 a suit and crossing. We don't, I don't know, gotcha. 225 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.919 So and so you're saying there's Over the years, you've 226 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:38.679 heard other reports uh from this this Bennington Triangle area 227 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.879 southern Vermont as well. Did you ever get any any 228 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.960 calls or anything when you were an active police officer 229 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.320 or detective that you're like, oh, the one that might 230 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:53.200 be connected to uh to Bigfoot? 231 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.399 Not really. We did have a couple of people getting 232 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.639 it get lost stuck in there because our area would 233 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.679 have covered that. And you know, unfortunately, everybody that was 234 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.399 lost was lost for just a short period of time 235 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.919 and we were able to get them out, you know, 236 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:23.759 with the agencies that were involved. So nobody when I 237 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:28.000 was active, there was nobody that was lost never found. 238 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.559 That's good, I mean, that's the best. That's the thing 239 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.480 you want to hear is that the people that were 240 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.960 lost were able to be to be found. I mean, 241 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.879 so often the story is different than that. I mean, 242 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.720 especially if you get out in places like the Pacific Northwest. 243 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:49.399 But you know, after you had this this is odd experience, 244 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.320 How did this affect the rest of your life when 245 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.480 it comes to Bigfoot? 246 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.600 I would say that as Bigfoot became more of a 247 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:08.119 thing and more socially accepted, I had thought back to 248 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.720 that and said, you know, maybe because I don't have 249 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.759 an answer as to what went through there, And so 250 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:23.799 the biggest thing is that I'm more open to the 251 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:33.559 idea now. That area is not too far from Whitehall, so, 252 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:37.240 you know, which is supposedly one of the hot spots 253 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:42.599 in the Northeast. So I look at it as, yeah, 254 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.559 that that's very probable that there was something there. And 255 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:51.960 the other thing is, you know, it's kind of a 256 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.359 stats kind of person in statistical probability and different things, 257 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:03.279 but Vermont is very for There's a lot of mountains, 258 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.640 a lot of forests where something could in fact travel 259 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.119 very easily from north to south with no problem not 260 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:13.640 be seen. 261 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.160 Absolutely, and yeah, I think a lot of people don't 262 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.200 realize how wild it can get in that area of 263 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:27.799 the Northeast. So I definitely definitely agree with you on that, Dave. 264 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.799 There's a reservoir on the backside of Clawstonbury that we 265 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:38.839 used to go fishing at, and you know, it's a 266 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.400 fourteen mile ride just to get to the reservoir of 267 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:48.079 just a dirt road, so it's very vast up in there, 268 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.480 and people just don't realize you can get turned around 269 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:53.240 pretty easily. 270 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.200 Absolutely. We took a trip over there when I had 271 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.319 visited New England a month or so ago, and uh, 272 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.000 it's just crazy. Once you drive into Green Mountain National Forest, Uh, 273 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.799 you can just go and go and go, and it 274 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.000 is very daunting area for the for the northeast is 275 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:17.119 very I would say, it's very easy for something to 276 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:20.759 hide out in there and for people not to see it. 277 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.160 I did notice a lot of prior camp sites in 278 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:26.279 that area had been shut down for different reasons, so 279 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.359 that was interesting as well. But uh, Dave you said 280 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:35.519 that you you also have another interesting experience too to 281 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:42.000 share about an area kind of close by, but uh, 282 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:43.880 maybe a little a little further. 283 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:52.799 Yeah, someone friend has a a hunting camp and it's 284 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:57.920 it's basically the center of the Adirondack Mountains and and 285 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.000 that's what it choose for is uh hunting area. It's 286 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.519 a small cabin on some lease logging land and he's 287 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.759 had it for about five years ago or five years now, 288 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.039 and the first couple of years, you know, we're just 289 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.200 kind of learning the lay of the land. That would 290 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.039 be myself, him and another guy that would go up 291 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:25.039 there primarily, and there's some others that go later, but 292 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:33.200 I've not yet met them, So he relates this story 293 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:33.559 to me. 294 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:34.759 I wasn't there. 295 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.480 I got there about a week later. I live in 296 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.640 South Carolina, so it's a pretty good hike for me 297 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:47.400 to get from there to New York now or Vermont. 298 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:49.160 But I do make it up there a couple of 299 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:54.079 times a year. And so a couple of years ago 300 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.359 he and a friend, the other guy that's in the camp. 301 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.559 It was opening weekend of their season, I believe, so 302 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:10.359 late October, and they were just up there. It might 303 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:13.079 have been the weekend before opening weekend. I'm not one 304 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.599 hundred percent sure, but it was the end of October 305 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:20.759 and they were up there and they'd had a few 306 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.920 beers and they're sharing war stories and what have you, 307 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:26.680 and about midnight they decided to call it a night 308 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.920 and go to bed. So I'll give you the layout 309 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:37.480 of the camp. First. It's on a killed that it 310 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.279 slopes to the back, and on the back of the 311 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:46.240 camp there's a door, but there's no steps or anything yet. 312 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.079 It just opens up and it's probably seven foot drop, 313 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.559 maybe eight foot drops if you were to walk out there. 314 00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:00.799 Windows on either side. The bedrooms are more to the back, 315 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.880 the back corner and along the wall is one room, 316 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.240 so that's where the beds are, and in the other 317 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:14.440 room there's a wood stove in like a camp sink 318 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.559 and a little stove and that sort of stuff. In 319 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.480 the front door has a twist lock and a dead bowl, 320 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.279 and the dead bowl is a pain in the neck 321 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:27.559 to get open. You really have to pull on the 322 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:34.920 door to get its a lot. It's just difficult. So 323 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.680 on that particular night they go to bed in. About 324 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.240 an hour later, my friend, he says, he tells me 325 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.119 he wakes up. He's standing outside. He's got his shorts on, 326 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:48.640 his T shirt, and he's standing there in his socks, 327 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:54.039 and he's kind of gazed a little bit and starts 328 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.359 yelling and for the other guy. You know, I forgot 329 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.400 to add that they started the wood stove. It's just 330 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.960 good to keep the warms up the camp a little bit. 331 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.079 But it had gotten hot in there, so they had 332 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:12.759 cracked the windows, which have some screens on. And so anyway, 333 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.559 he's outside and yelling for the other guy, and he 334 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.359 ultimately opens up the front door and goes up there, 335 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.480 and my friend, who stand there in his socks and 336 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:32.480 again a little bit confused as to how he got there. 337 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.519 His socks weren't muddy. If he had walked through the 338 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:42.200 front door, Uh, he would have had a very difficult time, 339 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.000 and he would have needed his keys to lock the door. 340 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.640 The guy that came back out, his friend or our friend, 341 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.480 said the door was still locked. The dead boat was 342 00:23:52.519 --> 00:24:01.680 still locked when he went to get the owner. And anyway, 343 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.839 they're a little rattled by this, and they go back 344 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.200 inside and they're looking and none of the flashlights in 345 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:15.680 the camp. Fork is light that he keeps primarily wasn't working. 346 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.640 And there's always a couple of headlamps hanging up, you know, 347 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:22.680 in case somebody gets a deer or something. He's an 348 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.720 extra one. None of those who are working. And after 349 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.599 a while they finally drift off and go to sleep. 350 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.680 He thought it was around four o'clock. So in the 351 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:40.359 morning they get up and the kind of looking around 352 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.519 the outside of the camp so on that let's see, 353 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:52.599 it would have been the southern wall. There's a window 354 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:55.960 in that screen door or the screen had been opened. 355 00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.480 The window had been open, but the screen was pulled 356 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:08.640 off the upper left corner from the top down. That's 357 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.440 fairly tall. We measured it and it's you know, between 358 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.920 eleven and twelve feet for something to reach up there 359 00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:20.680 and pull that screen down. The interesting thing is is 360 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.319 he said that they saw a handprint on the screen 361 00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:33.079 the size of a basketball. He has no idea how 362 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.839 he got outside, no recollection of how he got outside. 363 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.519 You know, I've asked him how many beers did you have? 364 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:43.519 And he said we had luck too, so and again 365 00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.880 I you know, we're good at busting each other's chops, 366 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.960 So I said, are you guys pulling my leg now? 367 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.680 And my friend's over six foot there is no way 368 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.119 that he fit through that little hole, you know, Like 369 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.160 if he had was trying to play a prank on 370 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.079 the other guy and get through that hole, there is 371 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:07.119 absolutely no way. And he has bad kneeds from the army. 372 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.720 So had he jumped out of there, he would have 373 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:17.240 been in a pile outside had not been able to 374 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:26.720 get up. My friend was actually a little rattled by that, 375 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:28.680 which kind of surprised me. He told me he wasn't 376 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.680 going back up there by himself, and he really didn't 377 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:35.319 for a little bit. So I was able to get 378 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:43.720 there the next week, I believe it was, and we 379 00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:46.279 were doing some it was probably two weeks, and we 380 00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:49.200 were getting ready to my friend and I were getting 381 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.759 ready to go out for the morning and had our coffee. 382 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.960 What have you? And our phones charged overnight. Now sale 383 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:01.319 service isn't the great it is up there. It's actually 384 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.480 pretty bad. Unless you get to the top of a 385 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.759 couple of the mountains, you can get some service, but 386 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:14.119 it doesn't drain them. And and I had shot my 387 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:17.359 wife at tax and was getting, like I said, getting 388 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.599 ready to leave, and next thing I know, my phone's 389 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:24.200 power is at two percent. And my friend checked his 390 00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:28.200 and his is the same same thing, Like they're both drained, 391 00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:35.079 not dead, but drained, and post them like, what's going 392 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.279 on with that? And I guess my desire to hunt 393 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.680 was more than my desire to figure out what was 394 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.720 going on with the phones. And we went our separate ways, 395 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.839 and you know, when we met back up later that morning, 396 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:50.920 he said, Hey, we're happen to your phone? And he said, well, 397 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:52.680 it was a couple hours later, an hour and a 398 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.279 half something like that. He said, my phone came back 399 00:27:55.319 --> 00:28:06.880 to full power and minded as well. So I've had 400 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:09.200 phone since they'd come out, and I've never had one 401 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.319