Speaker 1: Good afternoon.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Gambling with an Edge.
Speaker 1: Now here are your hosts, Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.
Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an Edge on Bob
Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin. Richard and I are having
one of our irregular podcasts, creating this the end of
twenty twenty four, and Richard and I thought we'd just
chat about what we are personally doing and have been
doing the last year or two since we stopped the show.
So Richard will let you start out. Are you still
retired from gambling?
Speaker 2: No, of course, not retiring is easy. I've done it
a dozen times. But yeah. Part of why we haven't
been doing regular shows is both of us kind of
got busy in new ventures, and for me, I was
kind of dragged back into working by my longtime partner
named Darryl, and he convinced me about a year ago
that we should get into sports betting, and so, I
you know, I had resisted betting on sports for many,
many years, decades, just because I didn't have any interest
in it. But he was like, it's the gold rush,
and you know, we'll have some fun and make some money.
And and you know, and and learn a lot, which
really that sort of once I started in it, I
did start learning a lot and that always makes things interesting.
And so that's that's what I've been doing.
Speaker 1: So are you, But you basically are not a sports fan.
Speaker 2: True well, and and you know, one of the reasons
that I resisted forever was I felt like, you really
need to be into sports to be good at it.
And what I came to find out is, just like
a blackjack team, different members on the team have different
skill sets and so and just like advantage play in
the casino, learning how to get an edge is one
part of it, but learning how to actually make money
at it is a totally separate skill set. And once
I kind of learned that, I realized that, you know,
just like a blackjack team, you need a numbers guy.
And in sports we call them originators, and they are
numbers guys who create models that figure out where to
get the edge. And it's funny because I listened to
a lot of podcasts and stuff with sports betting people,
and I remember, very early on I heard a guy say,
you know, getting an edge is easy, making money is
the hard part. And in the very beginning, I was like, well,
it's so easy, you know, tell me right, where's the edge?
But I came to find out pretty quickly that there
are a lot of edges to be had, and he
was right that it seems like the more difficult part
is actually figuring out ways to make the money. Because
just like blackjack, where they throw you out of the
casino once they realize you have an edge, the same
thing happens with sports betting, although they don't usually they
don't throw you out, like close your account entirely, although
some do. One place wouldn't even open an account for
me at all, but they limit you. So you will
suddenly open your app one day and try to make
a bet and they'll tell you maximum bet two dollars
and twenty seven cents or something like that. I mean
literally ridiculously small amount.
Speaker 1: And so even with a bet ten percent.
Speaker 2: Edge, yeah yeah, yeah, still still not worthwhile. And you know, unfortunately,
one of the places here in Las Vegas, they are
so paranoid. Like it used to be you could walk
up to the counter at a sports book and just
make a bet, and now some of the places are
so paranoid about it that you have to show them
a player's card to make any kind of bet over
you know, one hundred or two hundred dollars or something.
And once I show them the player's card, suddenly I'm
restricted as to what I can bet, even over the counter.
You know another thing that surprised me is Las Vegas,
head or Nevada, had a monopoly on sports betting for decades,
and they are now probably the worst place to bet
on sports in the United States. They really have kind
of shot themselves in the foot and done a lot
of sort of stupid things to make it really undesirable
for sports betters here.
Speaker 1: But you need to physically be in the other states
to make to bet there, is that true?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but you know the Arizona border is only
thirty two miles away, so there is that. And then
you know what most people do is they have betting
partners who live in other states, and you know they
they make bets in a partnership deal. Yeah, you can.
You can take advantage of multiple states that way. And
you know, I found that my role in this, what
I sort of was able to bring to the table
is the fact that I've been in the business for
in the gambling business, for a long time, and and
I know a lot of people, and because of that,
I can have many partners. And and so my role
I mentioned that, you know, these sports betting teams have
the numbers guy. But you know, another role is what's
called a mover. And so I part with originators. And
you know, they can't bet as much as they would
like to because you know, they get restricted and they
need more accounts and things like that. So I partner
with them, and then I send bets out to my
partners and we get more money down for them that
they couldn't get for themselves. And you know, so I'm
always looking for more originators. You know, in particular, if
there's anybody out there who does NASCAR or F one,
I'd really be interested in that. But yeah, so I
partner with them, and then I partner with guys who bet,
and hopefully we all make money.
Speaker 1: And if I'm sure there are listeners out there who go, oh,
I live in such and such a state, I love
to partner with Richard and be one of his movers.
I'm assuming that's not something you're really interested in in
getting a lot of people who want to do that, correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm not. I'm really not too interested in
sort of total stranger partnering with total strangers because obviously,
you know, there's a lot of you know, room for shenanigans,
you know, when you're dealing with a cash business. And
one example you know that's happened already is I was
working with somebody, and there are certain sports books that
are very sharp, okay, and the dumb sports books look
at the prices at the sharp sports books and adjust
their lines accordingly. Right. So if I have a betting partner,
I tell them, look, I don't want you to bet
at any of these places that are really sharp, right,
because it'll move the line. So I'll bet at those places.
The other agreement that I have with betting partners is
you can't depending on the bank roll they have or whatever,
like we split fifty to fifty what you bet at most, right,
But if you want less that's okay too, but not
more than fifty to fifty. So if you come back
and say I got down five thousand and we're each
getting twenty five hundred, that's fine. But you know, then
you run into a partner who says I got down
five thousand, and he actually went out and bet fifteen thousand,
Well that's not okay, or if he says, you know,
you know, I literally gave a guy a bet and
I was looking at the screen and immediately I saw
two of the places on the no no list light
up on the board, right, And and then you know,
I knew somebody else who was working with that person,
and and you know, they said we had the exact
same problems, and so anyway, I mean exactly, I'm no
longer working with that person, right, So yeah, yeah, it's
uh so, it's it's interesting and and and very much
like the old blackjack partnerships and things like that, all
of the same sort of problems and dynamics and all
of that stuff that. And you know, another thing that
I find really interesting is when in my early days
on blackjack teams, my the people I knew who were
card counters, they would not dream of going out and
you know, playing craps or or you know, betting on
something where they didn't have an edge. But it seems
like there are a lot of guys who are sharp
guys were making money at sports that you know that
do that, that go out and blow money on things
that where they don't have an edge or they really
I'm surprised at how many of them really don't understand
kind of fundamental gambling things you know about about variants
and how ev works and how Kelly betting works. It's
just surprising to me that they can be successful and
not have sort of basic fundamental understanding of a lot
of gambling concepts.
Speaker 1: And you would figure the friends that you have known
for a long time should know those things.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Well, because the people I've known for
a long time usually have come from a blackjack background
where you you learn those things in the beginning. I mean,
I shouldn't say nobody. I mean I have worked with
some guys who who have some you know, some djen
in them, but usually that's been like bps that we recruited,
not actual like not so much the people who actually
were numbers people or you know.
Speaker 1: Uh huh So is there anything else that you've been
doing gambling why that you want to talk about? Uh?
Speaker 2: No, Well, I'm curious about you, Bob, because I know
at one point you had driven to Arizona to take
advantage of some of the bonuses that they were giving
for new sign ups. But that didn't sort of spark
your interest in enough to try to do anymore.
Speaker 1: Not really. The only sports betting that I'm doing now
is with Caesar's. If you're and this is a promotion
going on in Nevada Caesars. There's sports books Caesars sports
books all over, but the Nevada ones. If you're seven star,
if you make a bet of one hundred and fifty
dollars more or more this month, you get a free
bet next month of one hundred and fifty dollars, which
is small change. And yes, yes, I take advantage of
that if I'm playing in Caesar's. And it's always better
to when you get reward credits in Caesar's, assuming you
play enough that your host is going to comp off
all your rooms and meals and stuff, it's better to
bet that money in the sports book than it is
to take it in it fifty percent in terms of
free play, because you always can take it a fifty
percent in terms of free play. But in doing it
on sports books, you're getting well over ninety five percent
of the value of it.
Speaker 2: Oh so this bet when they when you bet it.
So let's say you were to bet it on an
even money game. The one hundred and fifty. If it wins,
they're paying you three hundred, or they're taking the one
fifty away.
Speaker 1: They're taking the one fifty away. So on the free bet,
we're always betting.
Speaker 2: Dogs super long shots, right right right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And on the the original bets that I'm
decided at, looking for approximately minus two hundred is is
the best solution to how much to bet or which
ones to go.
Speaker 2: Well on the initial bet?
Speaker 1: Is?
Speaker 2: So is this free bet a loss rebate or or
even if you win your bet, you're gonna get that win.
Speaker 1: It's not a lost rebate at all. It's you just
make a bet and as long as you make that
bet or more, you get the one one hundred and
fifty free bet the next month.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the bet, the initial bet then really all
you all you should care about is the bet with
the lowest ev a lowest house edge, doesn't really matter
the odds are agreed.
Speaker 1: But given that I h the it's one hundred and
fifty dollars and yeah, and so I'm not spending a
lot of time on evaluating exactly where to get that
money down, So I'm just using the the rule of thumb.
Look for minus two hundred, make the original bet and
uh and then pick a long shot for the uh yeah,
for the free bet, for the free bet, and it's
it's so. And you're betting with reward credits, so it's
yeah yeah. One of the problems I had is like,
if you're only betting with rewards credit, your account has
to go up because you can't lose because you're not
putting any money and it's just reward credits. And sometimes
you win the bets, so the money, the money is
going to go up, and so the withdrawing of the
money is I don't want to go and like like
this year, I withdrew at the end of the year
and it was like four thousand dollars and it was
a little bit of a little bit of a hassle,
not a lot, but so I'll probably withdraw smaller amounts
more times during the year.
Speaker 2: Right, But what I know, you travel still to play,
and when you get to one of these other states,
you haven't looked at what kind of sign up bonuses
they have there, Because even if you have an account
in Arizona at say Caesar's or DraftKings, you can sign
up again in New Jersey Pennsylvania, you know, Virginia, whatever.
Speaker 1: So I haven't and it's on my list, but it's
I haven't and I don't. I don't really want to
talk about on the air exactly which states I go to,
but sure, yeah, but yeah, anyway, That's what I'm doing
sports betting wise, which is which is not much.
Speaker 2: Now you you have transitioned a lot into playing slots,
and how how is that, Shane? How is that different
than what you were doing before?
Speaker 1: Okay, From when I came to Vegas in ninety four,
from there to well passed, you know, twenty twenty ninety
plus percent of my gambling income came from video poker,
much of it as a player, some of it as
royalties from things I've written, and there was some occasional
consulting which people got upset about and nervous about. It
never amounted to very much, but it was definitely enough
to get people mad at me about. I did invest
with Michael Shackelferd for four separate years on Super Bowl
prop bets, and three out of the four years there
was a safety and we bet the no safety, just
like a bridge jumper and so on the whole there
was I think there was a period of four years
and seven where there was a safety, but otherwise there
was like four out of the last twenty eight years
or something there's been the safety. So they just happened
to be. All the safeties came when I was betting
the know safety, So overall that was not a satisfactory
relationship financially, but I have forgiven Michael for that. My
opinion on slots during most of my career in Vegas
is that they were mostly for entertainment, and a drunk
monkey could succeed as well as an Albert Einstein. At
this same time, I did have some evidence that there
was more to it than that. About thirty years ago
there was a game called Piggy Banking that became popular
and I played it some. This is the first slot
machine I knew about with a feature today we call persisten.
Although the word persistence for this type of slot machine
is just a word I've heard fairly recently, we certainly
did not hear them back in the nineties. Persistence games
are when the game retains its value from spin to
spin until something happens, and so you can glance at
a machine and evaluate the positivity of that machine just
by looking at some feature of it. In Piggy banking,
there was a bank with the number in it, and
when that number got high enough, you could go and
bet one coin and the bank would spill pretty soon.
And so you'd be betting one coin and you might
get thirty backs, and I might take you three or
four spins to do that, And so people went looking
for piggy banking. So I did this. This is the
only person dice game I knew about in the nineties.
There were a couple others, and so these were one
off machines. It wasn't never was a big part of
what I did. In the early two thousand sometime there
was a a player named Steve Goldberg who since passed on.
He and his wife played on a quarter megabucks machine
during a double point Days for Locals promotion at the
Four Queens, and they hit for something like eight million
or eleven million. I don't remember the exact number. It
was larger than any other jackpot that I that one
of my friends had hit. Another strong player at the
time said he would have been on that game too,
except he was not eligible for the double points at
the Four Queens because he lived in California, and this
conversation was like amazing to me because the Four Queens
had a slot club at the time of zero point
seven five percent over the good old days. But they
were able to figure out the value of that megabucks
machine within that much, so that single points was not
enough and double points was enough. And I don't know
how they did it. Possibly they had par sheets. I
don't know. A par sheet is produced by a slot manufacturer.
It's for the knowledge of the slot director and the
slot department to put out games that they want. It's
not intended for players. Possibly, I mean some players have them.
It certainly makes your gamley decisions a lot easier if
you know what the basic game is worth. But I
had no idea how how they can calculated that. Invited
Steve on the show several times. He always gracefully declined,
and now, of course he's gone, so I can't ask
him anymore. We had an Australian player on this show
a few times, Peter Liston, who wrote a book about
chasing slot progressives, primarily in Australia but also throughout the world.
I want to know part of this. He described a
system of his he'd have a tag team team and
they would get on a machine and plan to play
it for three months until it hit and at the
end of the three months they would share all the money.
And this to be sounded as exciting as a root canal.
I wanted no part of it.
Speaker 2: Well, Peter Liston was also playing a lot of most
hit byes.
Speaker 1: Yes he was. He was playing must hit byes and
I'll talk about that in a bit. But and perhaps
I maybe twenty ten a strong player that I knew
from video poker, and he also has had success at
the World Series of Poker and World Poker Tour and
has has some bling and has some nice finishes, and
he was basically known as a knit And we were
playing at some kind of video poker event at the
Poems back when the Poems had good video poker, and
he asked the slot director to put in a particular
slot machine. He said, if you put in that machine,
I'll play it. And I don't know what the machine was,
and I was rather dumbfounded. I did not know that
any particular slot machine would be worth some more like
us playing And uh, you know, slot director says, you know,
it's not a video poker. It's slot and guy said, yeah,
I know, I will play it. And so later I
asked him, I said, is this progressive or something? You know,
why would you want to play a slot machine? And
his answer was, well, not exactly progressive sort of, and
I don't want to talk about it. So I get
a lot of those kind of answers when I asked
questions about slots, and now people ask me about slots
and I kind of give them a similar answer I
did hear. I was in a gambling group with other
strong gamblers and one time Frank Kneelan, who was the
original co host of this show and had written a
book about progressive video poker, he gave us a lecture
on must hit bise and which was an and gave
us the formula for figuring it out and the exceptions
and and those are still out there. There's a lot
of must hit byes on the casino floor, and many
people know how to play them. It's the same and
generally you so they're out there, they're not you know,
if it's supposed to hit by five hundred and you know,
you know that if it's at least four ninety five afforial,
it has to be a good play. But of course
somebody else is on it a four ninety or four
hundred or something. They get it on at four hundred
and they keep playing until it's over and they hit it,
but they, you know, lost a whole lot along the way,
So must hit byes are not part of my arsenal.
If I see one when I go by, I'll play it.
But that doesn't happen very often, uh I.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm wondering, are you Are you working harder
than you before, or I mean more hours than you
were before. The other thing that I've noticed is all
the people I know who got into playing slot machines
lost weight just because they end up doing so much walking.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I, as you know, Richard, I lost quite
a bit of weight, yeah, and a lot of that
was from walking around on slots. And then I would
also exercise and ended up needing a hip replacement, probably
because I exercised too hard on an old body and
needed a shoulder surgery. And so with those I kind
of stopped going to the gym because and gained about
half the weight back. But yes, doing slots in Vegas
and elsewhere is a lot of steps a lot a
lot of walking there is I got there. I tried to.
I knew some plot players, and I was interested in,
you know, buying information from them or bartering, or is
there anyhow I can get some information? And mostly it
was no guys. Nobody wanted to and especially not to
somebody who whom I had published stuff. Eventually, somebody was
interested in helping me, and so I learned a few
games just enough to be expensive. So there's I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, expensive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like three hundred games out there too that
are beatable now, and so I knew four of them,
and so each casino would have a couple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you mean to be expensive?
Speaker 1: Well, it's a lot of At the time I tended,
I couldn't find any that were all the way to
the numbers that were recommended by my friend. So I'd
play it a little bit less slide of that, And
of course I didn't do real well and on a
couple of his numbers were not good. So so to
start with I didn't win. But eventually I started partnering
with other people collect making my own numbers, and making
your own numbers is tough. You have to start, you
have to record every hand you play or every hand
somebody else plays. You know how much you bet, how
long does it take to hit? You know what was
the return? Yeah, because if you're returning, if it's a
game where hypothetically you play when the miner goes off
at thirty spans or higher, or the miner is thirty spins,
and it's a place, so we'll just assume that's the case.
So when you're playing, get thirty spins for two dollars
or five dollars or fifty dollars, whatever the amount is.
Some there's a variance in the returns. Sometimes on a
thirty spins at two dollars will return twenty five dollars
and sometimes two point fifty, and sometimes it's a w
twog And so there's a lot of data in there,
and so yeah, you need to process it, and you
need to collect a lot of data and also collect
information on the mini and meter or the major meter
or the megameter, and so there's a lot of data
to collect. There's a lot of data to process. On
the newer games, there's actually a rush to process it
before other people figure it out. If once everybody knows,
like the games listed by Michael Shackelford in his most
recent edition of Gambling one oh two. Those are largely
games that all slot hustlers know, and there's no money
to be made in anymore unless you see a ploppy
playing it and they look like they're running out of
money and the game is in good condition. So then
you sit down and wait, and you might see four
other pros waiting for this ploppy to stand up, and
then they all fight to see who can get to
it first. And so the only time you really make
money on the games is if you happen to be
passing by right when somebody's leaving, which doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 2: And well, the other thing, you know, you said that
like it's a race to figure to try to, you know,
get the information first on new games. But I would
think like that there's a huge like you can just look,
you can in two minutes, you can walk around a
casino and spot the slot hustlers. I mean, they're so
obvious and blatant, and it just seems like you can
just watch what games they play. And conversely, if they
know what you look like, you don't want to play
some game they don't know because it tells them, oh,
that game is a play. So you know, how do
you avoid that? I guess there's no way you can
once you're on the machine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're on the machine and somebody knows who
you are, well then they will take note of it.
And then after you go, they'll watch and see what happens.
And we do the same thing. This is a This
actually is race related in that most of the slot
teams seem to be Asian, and I know there's a
lot of different varieties of Asian, but there would be
I don't know, four or five or six, whether they're
Chinese or Korean or Vietnamese or I don't know, and
they're all working together. And so you see that a lot.
I did not see that at all in video poker,
but there's a lot of there's a lot of teams
out there where it could be. They have some some
squatters who have a vague idea of what the machines are,
what they're looking for, and when they can get on
a machine, they call some central you know, these are
the numbers that they're ten, fourteen, and twenty three, and
so the head guy will say, no, that's no good,
or I'll be right there, and so so you see
that a lot. And in Vegas the slot hustlers are
the worst of the number. The other towns not so bad.
But every place I've gone there are locals who are
looking for slots. They're not as quite as rampant as
they are in Vegas, but they're there. And so whatever
casino city you play at, there are slot hustlers there,
and casinos are beginning to kick players out for this,
and some casinos are just just put up with it
because they obviously know what's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how many hours a day are you out
there working?
Speaker 1: Well, strictly, I have other things I'm doing other than slots,
and I have other things in my life than gambling.
But I'm probably beteam ten and twenty hours a week
on slots, and then there's other things that I'm doing.
I still have some video other things in the casino,
you mean, Yeah, I still have some video poker plays
out of town and so we travel still have But
but I have a circuit in slots, and I'm doing
it a lot of you know, you if you want
to walk one end of the strip to the to
the other, and you know, circle each casino twice. It'll
take you a while.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that you're doing that. I mean, that
would probably take you more than twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: I would think, well, yeah, and uh, and you know
you can do one side of the strip on Monday
and the other side on Tuesday, and so there's there's
people who do that. And I'm restricted at several Vegas
casinos due to video poker success and so so I
can still play slots without a card. There is, but
I'm also recognizable in casinos, So there's people in a
slot department who know who I am, whether it's facial
recognition or they remember when they used to work at
another casino where I was a video poker, and so
they tell their bosses, this guy's supposed to be playing here.
So there is still some of that. The only actually
casino I've been eighty six from slots at in Vegas
is the El Cortes, where it's as easy to get
kicked out of slots there as it is to get
kicked out in blackjack. Yeah, which means if you can
count to twenty one without using your finger, you can fingers,
you can pretty well get kicked out of the elk Cortez. So,
so there's so basically that's what I'm doing. Gambling wise,
it is there's persistent slots and still video poker. Then ye,
sports betting.
Speaker 2: Sounds like you're I mean, you must be enjoying it,
or you wouldn't be working that hard.
Speaker 1: I would guess I am. I don't have the energy
I did when I was younger. I'm seventy always seventy
eight in early twenty twenty five and don't have the energy.
And some medication I'm taking for makes me drowsy. So
I'm taking the medication for stuff that when the older
you get, the more medication you need to take. So
I do lead a healthy lifestyle, but I still don't
have the energy that I did even ten years ago. Sure,
and so always looking for new things to do, not
looking for a gambling Partartner's probably.
Speaker 2: But you mentioned that when you started you knew how
to play four machines. How many are you up to
these days? Although I guess a lot of the ones
that you learned are no longer worth even looking at right.
Speaker 1: Right the there are games that you know if I've
looked at it machine for two hundred times and it's
never positive, then I kind of stopped looking. Sure. Yeah,
but they're also of what they call new skins, where
it's the same game that but it looks different because
it's instead of a tiger theme, it has a panther
theme or something. And right, So there's variety of that,
but there's more than a hundred that I have some
knowledge of, and enough knowledge that I'll bet on it
if I sit out for a year and a half,
I will know nothing, because there's always these new games
out there. Yeah. So in the good old days, we
used to end the show with a recommended, which I
do not have for show. Do you have a recommended? Richard?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, I have kind of gone back to uh,
you know, I I like, you know, sort of hard
boiled detective novels, along with a lot of other things.
But so I sort of went back to the beginnings
and and have been reading the original people like uh yeah, yeah, yes,
and the original the really old ones Dashel Hammett and
Raymond Chandler and the guy I'm reading right now, you is.
His name is Earl Stanley Gardner, and he's best known
for writing the Perry Mason series, which they've just revived.
On HBO in the last couple of years. And he
started writing in the thirties and you know, and all
the way up to like the seventies and got involved
in television and stuff. But what's really interesting, Ellen, he's
a really good writer, really good writer. But I'm reading
one right now called Spill the Jackpot that is from
nineteen forty one, and it takes place in Las Vegas,
and you know, that's before the Flamingo was built, I mean,
and so Las Vegas is basically Fremont Street. So anyway,
it's you know, it's a typical hard boiled detective novel.
And this is part of a series with a guy
named Donald Lamb and a woman named a Cool and
the name she's the one who owns this detective agency
called the b Cool Agency, and he works for her.
And this is like the fourth book in the series.
But anyway, so I'm just recommending the book a because
it's you know, great writing, and b because of the
sort of historical Las Vegas stuff. I'm just in the
beginning of the first few chapters of the book, but
they get this case in Las Vegas and he immediately
gets pulled up in the casino because they think he's
part of a slot sheet team. So yeah, you know,
for people who like those kind of books, I think
they'll really enjoy this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing the link in the
show notes. I actually I've been going back and reading
rereading some of the series that I read. I reread
all the David Baldacci series. Recently, I reread all the
Daniel Silva, who're both authors I like. Right now, I'm
reading can Fall At Yeah, and it's been a while
since I read it, and I'm enjoying it again even
I kind of know how it turns out. I've forgotten
some of it, Yeah, but it seems sober and I
can listen to it on headsets while I'm playing slots.
If I have to evaluate a machine carefully, i'll pause
the tape. But if once I'm onto the game where
I just have to keep hitting until I hit the
major or whatever it is, then I can be listening
to the story. And it's a more pleasant way to
spend it than just hitting the tape with hitting the
button with nothing else going.
Speaker 2: On, Right, it looks better than than reading a book
while you're pushing the button.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm assuming some of the books you're
reading are not on tape or are there.
Speaker 2: No, I'm reading them. I'm actually reading them.
Speaker 1: I remember how to do that, but don't do that
as much anymore.
Speaker 2: But there's something, you know, you know, it's funny. My
my brother, for my birthday sent me a collection of
there's a writer. His last name is Pine, and he
wrote a series of detective novels set in Chicago. But
it's one of those, you know, six books in one,
so it weighs about four pounds, and I, you know,
I just can't bring myself to read it because, you know,
a lot of times I'm laying down in bed holding
the book above me, except I use a kindle, which
is very light. So I really like to be reading
these books that he sent me, but I just can't
bring myself to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good. All right again, you.
Speaker 2: Too will have to do this more often than twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 1: All right, So everybody go out and hit lots of
royal flushes. Good night,