WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.680 F Aklia Egila Mlina De Saren and Daryl Las Fad 2 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.639 Auguste Downigg and Trio law Is fad Lunasa august E 3 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.039 Niece Mona Ree Kuigna, the Lorna car Rock Yo Breaver 4 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:12.919 like Yo Kayla carried in the Alina Sessions draw the 5 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.320 Augus gimebiuk t Tailing Augusturt three Statia by the Scratch 6 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:20.920 Sharon Shannon Modre Solah Andy Irvine Quila August Tilla Knocked 7 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.640 Up Sayer Nashka August the falgerv rock Is Vieder Olafhevna 8 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.120 Alex Clor On the flow a Dublin punka ETOs Last 9 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.239 Dublin City Fla Akorla Carrack Vlaghlia. 10 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.600 This is a radio add about about. 11 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:37.079 Cat Let's go again. 12 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.000 Sorry, lost my place there, okay. 13 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:41.159 Take two. 14 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:45.679 This is a radio add about T junctions. When you're 15 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.119 at a T junction, always look twice for motorbikes. Look right, 16 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.520 look left, and then look right again. 17 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.039 There are no second takes in life. Check twice for 18 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:56.520 motorbikes at T junctions. 19 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.439 A message from the Road Safety Authority ce R S 20 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:00.039 A dot. 21 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:06.599 A cast Classics in West Cork. It's simply known as 22 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:11.120 the Murder. In nineteen ninety six, French film producer Sophie 23 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:14.799 Tuscanda Plantier is found dead near her holiday home. The 24 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.719 police suspect one man, but they can't make a charge 25 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:21.319 stick and he refuses to leave, becoming the embodiment of 26 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.079 everyone's unsettled nerves. 27 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:26.599 For people in West Cork, the murder that changed the 28 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.879 character of their peaceful home has become about something completely different. 29 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:34.120 To find out more about West Cork and all acas 30 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:36.840 classics at the acast dot com Forward. 31 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:38.079 Slash Classics. 32 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:47.560 Warning, do not be afraid. This month's Where Did the 33 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:52.840 Road Go? Is sponsored by the following awesome individuals, Greg Ross, 34 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.879 Allison Cook, Super Inframan thirty six Dingo, Yvonne Williams and 35 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:01.000 Michael Frisque. Thank you so much much for helping make 36 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:02.079 this show possible. 37 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:07.719 Transmission Star Welcome to Where Did the Road Go? Join 38 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:12.360 us as we wander off the path and explore lost history, consciousness, 39 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:19.360 the para normal, unexplained mysteries, alternative thought, and much more. 40 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.360 We are present on the web at Where to the 41 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:26.439 Roadgo dot com. Now Here is your host, Sriah. 42 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.919 Welcome to this edition of Where Did the road going tonight. 43 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:47.680 I have joining me mister Saxon super Inframan. Hi, everybody, 44 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:52.280 and you have brought us a newcomer I have. 45 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:52.759 I have. 46 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.280 This is a friend of Quinn's of mine that I 47 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:58.680 have met through a few different avenues. 48 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:00.319 Nathan around. 49 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.319 Yeah, you know, everybody, So tell us a little bit 50 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:06.240 about yourself. Nathan. 51 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:11.639 Well, my name's Nathan Brown. I actually I published under 52 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:16.960 the name Nathan Robert Brown. I am a mythologist and 53 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:19.759 a writer, which is really just a fancy way of 54 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.120 saying that I'm poor. You know, I've been. I've been 55 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:28.919 writing mythology books for about the last twenty something years, 56 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:33.479 you know. And I also run a shop where I 57 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:34.719 make weird stuff for people. 58 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:38.840 Define define weird stuff? 59 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:44.520 Well, I make I make zombie apocalypse baseball bats, practice weapons, 60 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:48.919 I make self defense weapons, I make vampire stakes, I 61 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.759 make core props. I make I kind of a hodgepodge 62 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:59.439 of stuff. Yeah, it's called warrior wooden props. The thing, 63 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:01.639 you know, I make all kinds of stuff. The thing 64 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:04.240 that were my shop seems to be mostly known for 65 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.400 is making weird baseball bats. I make a lot of 66 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.319 really weird baseball bats, but I make all kinds. 67 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.240 Of stuff, ah okay, and the website for that. 68 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.040 You can just go to eBay or and look for 69 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.120 Warrior wooden props. The easiest thing to do is just 70 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:22.160 go to eBay search for vampire steakes, and my my 71 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.079 shop's probably going to be the first thing that comes up. 72 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.959 I have the widest selection of vampire hunter steaks you 73 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:33.279 will find anywhere on the internet. All Right, I watched 74 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.160 way too much Hammerhouse of Horror when I was a kid. 75 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.920 And you said you're a mythologist. M did you go 76 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.360 to school for mythology or yeah? 77 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.959 Yeah, I have a master's degree in English with a 78 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.800 focus in world mythology. I studied under a doctor, Evans 79 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.079 last Smith, who was a student of Joseph Campbell's, who 80 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:59.439 was kind of if anyone remembers the Bill Moyer series 81 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.680 from back, you know, the eighties and nineties, you know, 82 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.920 he wrote Faces of God. 83 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.079 He was kind of the authority on mythology in the 84 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:06.839 eighties nineties. 85 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:09.879 A lot of his work inspired George Lucas when he 86 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:12.879 did Star Wars, and you know, it has inspired quite 87 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.800 a few movies and and and and books over the years. 88 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.720 And so when I got out of the Marine Corps, 89 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:22.680 and I found myself in a tiny town in North 90 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:27.000 Texas called which is called Falls, Texas, and and everything 91 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.199 I had tried to do for the first year I 92 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.399 was out of the Marine Corps did not work. And 93 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.199 so someone suggested I tried going to college in this 94 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.560 small town, and I went there and and enrolled. And 95 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:41.680 I've been a mythology nerd my entire life. And so 96 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.680 the moment I found out that one of the English 97 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:47.759 professors was a student of Joseph Campbell's, I harassed this 98 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:53.319 poor man relentlessly, like like I would chase him down 99 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:55.720 to ask him questions. I wasn't even in any of 100 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:59.040 his classes yet, because I was a freshman, so I 101 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.160 wasn't even taking any of his classes. But here's this 102 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.959 kid who's just like over enthusiastic ADHD kid, chasing him 103 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.279 down every day to ask him mythology questions. And to 104 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.879 the point where one time I was turning down the 105 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.439 hallway to his office and he was coming out of 106 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:15.759 his office. He turned to the left to look at me, 107 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.199 turned back to his office, went back inside, and closed 108 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:19.560 the door. 109 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:24.800 He was like, Nope, not today, not dealing with this 110 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:25.439 kid today. 111 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.920 But anyway, he and I ended up later writing a book. 112 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.800 We wrote a Complete Idiots Guide to World Mythology, which 113 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.040 is kind of where I started my career. I started 114 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.680 working for the Complete Idiot's Guide series while I was 115 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.839 in college, wrote a bunch of Idiots Guides, which I 116 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:45.519 was well qualified for, and wrote a bunch of those. 117 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.600 And then then as I got kind of more established 118 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.399 and and you know, the one thing when you write 119 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.759 about stuff like mythology, degrees kind of matter, you know. 120 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.079 And so it wasn't until I kind of got my 121 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.439 bachelorsion started doing my my graduate work. Uh, and I 122 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.759 started getting more like standalone titles and I I did, 123 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.279 uh like these kind of where mythology that I did. Uh. 124 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:11.680 They had me there was a show on the CW 125 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.120 called Supernatural, Yeah, Munch fun Time. It was very popular, 126 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.040 so they had me do a book on the mythology 127 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.079 for that TV show and uh, and then I did 128 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:22.000 another one on the Grim TV series that was on 129 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:26.240 MPC for a while, and uh, and then I have 130 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.639 right now, I've been doing a series of encyclopedias for 131 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.480 DK Publishing, uh, which is owned by Penguin Random House. 132 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.079 They you know, there used to be a whole lot 133 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.199 of different publishers. These days, there's there's still a lot 134 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:39.319 of publishers. They're all owned by about the same three 135 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:42.959 or four big ones of course. Uh. But d DK 136 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.600 Publishing is the is their their European one of their 137 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.920 European publishing houses. So I did uh we did. First 138 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:52.879 we did one on Supernatural Creatures about two years ago, 139 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.079 and then last year we did Legendary Heroes, and then 140 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.759 this year we're doing The Unexplained, which is all about 141 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:00.199 just weird us. 142 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.800 Okay, all right, yeah, you know before we jump into 143 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:05.360 some of that too. 144 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.000 Uh, Nathan, you did a book on Brilith. 145 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.199 Right, yeah, yeah, that was Yeah. 146 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.560 My master's thesis was on a little rape of Lilith. 147 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:15.000 Yeah, that was that. 148 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.480 That That actually was a big passion project of mine. 149 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:18.959 It was. 150 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:20.680 It was also the reason I was chosen to do 151 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:24.319 the Mythology of Supernatural because Lilith was a character on there, 152 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:26.959 and they wanted somebody who and it was a very 153 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.399 popular character, and so they wanted somebody who kind of 154 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.639 knew the history of that. And Lilith is one of 155 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.879 those weird characters, like he's been around a kid, you not, 156 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.039 you guys, She's been around longer than anyone else in mythology. Like, 157 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:41.720 there's not a single mythological character I can point to 158 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:42.840 that it is older than she is. 159 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.919 We haven't writing like, yeah, she like the oldest myth 160 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:47.720 that we have. 161 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.879 She's mentioned in it, Like that's like the oldest written 162 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.159 down myth that we have in Kunea forms, like five 163 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.159 thousand years old. Her name is in it, and uh 164 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:00.200 and it's in a creation myth kind of a thing 165 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.360 about the Halloopu tree. It's a don't get me started 166 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:05.559 on that. But anyway, Yeah, so I wrote, But the 167 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.200 thing I always found weird about Lilith is when I 168 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:10.519 when I would research her in mythology, it's always either 169 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:13.679 like her from a judaic point of view, or her 170 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.000 from this Marian point of view, or or her from 171 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.039 the pop culture point of view. But there was there 172 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.200 wasn't a whole complete history of that character. So so 173 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.720 I basically started from the beginning and worked up to 174 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.639 the modern day and just wrote pretty much a five 175 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.399 thousand year history of Lilith. 176 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:31.000 Wow. 177 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:36.240 And and yeah. Then after I graduated, or when I 178 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:38.279 when I started to do my doctoral work, which I 179 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:42.639 didn't finish, there was a publisher that offered to publish 180 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:45.879 it for me, and and I allowed them to do. 181 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:47.639 So what they didn't tell me was they were going 182 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:49.480 to turn around and charge one hundred dollars. 183 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.720 A copy because it was an academic of course. 184 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.720 Yeah, and it was probably one of the few times 185 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:57.840 I regretted allowing someone to publish my work. 186 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:03.080 So, uh, what, what where did Lilis start? 187 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:04.440 Oh? 188 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:08.559 So, so Lilis started in in ancient Mesopotamia. 189 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:12.039 It's the oldest. We don't know where when she began. 190 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:14.600 Which you have to remember is when myths are written down. 191 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:17.320 Any stories actually are written down a lot of times. 192 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.759 They've existed as an oral tradition long before anyone decided 193 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:21.360 to write them down. 194 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:21.679 Sure. 195 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.960 Sure, you have Knea form, which is the oldest kind 196 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.679 of written form that we know of, which was you know, 197 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:34.759 writing basically these wedge shaped pictographic images into wet clay tablets, 198 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.799 and very few of those tablets survive. Most of what 199 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:42.159 we have survives in fragments, or we have cylinder seals, 200 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.559 which are stone seals that were carved that we got 201 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.039 a lot of those. So Lilis shows up in the 202 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.759 oldest myth that we have, which is the Hooko Tree myth, 203 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:51.480 which is about this goddess and Nana. 204 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:53.840 There's a lot of Genesis elements in this myth. 205 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.960 So this goddis Nana, goes into her holy garden where 206 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.120 there's and and finds this tree that's washed up on 207 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:04.159 the shores of the Euphrates, and she pulls the tree 208 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.039 into her holy garden and plants it and leaves it 209 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.159 there for ten years to mature, at which point she's 210 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:13.960 planning to harvest the tree to build a series of objects. 211 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:15.840 And all these objects would have been seen as like 212 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:19.320 symbols of civilization at that time, things like a bed, 213 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.759 a chair, a door, you know, like like you ever 214 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.480 remember that most of the world at that time was 215 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:27.360 still living a very nomadic lifestyle. The idea of land 216 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:30.799 ownership was was still kind of a new concept, right 217 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.679 that was that was and a lot of humans didn't 218 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:36.919 get that concept. That was really kind of in the 219 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.320 cradle of civilization in Mesopotamia is kind of where that 220 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.960 whole idea of like this land is mine and we 221 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.200 own it, and we were going to put a wall 222 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.480 around it so to protect the people inside of it, 223 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.159 which became you know, a big lure because moving back 224 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:55.200 then to get you murdered. But anyway, so in this 225 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:59.159 in this myth, Lilis comes back after ten years and 226 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:01.480 there's a there's an onzu bird living in the branch. 227 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:04.960 There's a there's a serpent that cannot be tamed coiled 228 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.440 around the roofs, which is interesting because you also have 229 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:10.159 that imagery in like the x Raisal Tree of. 230 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:12.559 You know, the Viking and Norse mythology. 231 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:14.519 Yeah, and uh. 232 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:16.639 And then in the in the trunk of the tree 233 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.159 is the is the dark Maiden. 234 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:26.679 Lilith is there. And so Inana, who's who is the 235 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:29.240 most powerful godess in that pantheon, just basically sits down 236 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.519 and starts crying like she can't do anything. She goes 237 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:34.799 and gets her brother Gilgamesh, who you may or may 238 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.879 not have heard of, the Emesh and he shows up 239 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:40.279 with a tree with a with an axe that weighs 240 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.519 like three hundred pounds and uh and hits the tree 241 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.360 with it, and the onzu bird flies away, and the 242 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:49.879 the surpent that cannot be tamed slitherers off. And here's 243 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.360 where it gets interesting. And it says that Lilith flew 244 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:57.440 off into the wild and uninhabited land and that's important 245 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.000 for a reason. It's it's one of those things that 246 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:01.519 seems kind of anocy, but it's actually very a very 247 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.559 important statement in that whole myth, because gods in that 248 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.039 period of time were geographical. If you wanted to worship 249 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.879 a god, you went to where that god was right, 250 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:14.840 you had, you had shrines in certain cities. Each city 251 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:16.799 had a god that was its own. So you wanted 252 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:19.000 to be like a worship her of that god, you 253 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:23.080 went to that city. So by by basically having a 254 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:27.080 myth that excelled Lilith into the wild and uninhabited lands, 255 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:29.519 most likely there was a cult of Lilith that existed 256 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.159 in that area when when the Assyrians wrote this down, 257 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.960 and so they were trying to say, Okay, your goddess 258 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.559 isn't here anymore, so if you want to worship her, 259 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.559 you got to go out into the wild and uninhabited lands, which, 260 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.840 as I mentioned earlier, was not safe. Uh Like it's 261 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.480 not like now. There's something I always have a hard 262 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.840 time explaining to people is what it's what we're talking 263 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.919 about as a world with no social services, Like there's 264 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.600 no police, there's no law, there's not even law, like 265 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.159 there's not and codified law system in place. Like if 266 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.519 I'm traveling from one city to another and I come 267 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:07.840 across somebody else and they decide they want to kill me, 268 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:11.879 enslave my family and take all my stuff, that that's 269 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:15.200 there's no nothing to stop them except for me. Right, Like, 270 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.200 there's there's no police to call. And if they and 271 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.639 if they do all that, guess what, there's no law 272 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.679 that's going to like like get justice for that later. 273 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:29.159 It's just going at all. Yeah, right, And so that 274 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:33.360 was a very like dangerous thing. And so well, here's 275 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.000 the crazy thing about it. And this is one of 276 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.200 the part of my thesis to kind of kiss some 277 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.240 people off. But I ended up being right. Uh. I 278 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:42.600 believe that what happened was the worship versu of Lilith 279 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:46.080 left and they went to other places in the world 280 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:51.440 and established her cult elsewhere. Mmmm Lamia, for example, in 281 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.919 Greek mythology, very similar to Lilith and Lamia in the 282 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:59.279 Southern Mesopamian dialect, is Lam is another name for Lilith. 283 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:06.039 M Lilith is also associated with childbirth and the killing 284 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.879 of babies and the death of Davies and Colli in 285 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:18.840 the Hindu mythology. Has several elements associated with lilith as well. 286 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:25.360 You also have like pictures of or or representations of 287 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:30.759 lilith that have extreme similarities to similar representations of Klamia 288 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:36.960 and other figures in crete Greece and in India. Here's 289 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.080 the fun part. When I said that, I got made 290 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.480 fun of by some of the other academics because they said, 291 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:44.440 there is no evidence that the ancient Mesopamians and the 292 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:50.840 ancient Hindus or Hindi people ever traded, right, Yeah, and 293 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.639 there wasn't at that time, but I said, I firmly 294 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.360 believed that they did. They did interact, even though we 295 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.799 didn't have any evidence yet. Here's what's crazy. Two years later, 296 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.559 somebody was going through a drawer at the Museum of 297 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.360 London found the cylinder steal from Ansia, Mesopotamia, and guess 298 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:09.840 what was on it? 299 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.320 A freaking elephant was on it. 300 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.240 Here's the problem with that. There are no elephants in 301 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.039 the Middle East, right, that's where there are elephants. 302 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:27.679 Yeah, in India. I always love the certainty that people 303 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.639 have when we're when we don't know, we don't know 304 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:35.200 anything really, like we're just putting puzzle pieces together, right, 305 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:36.559 and that. 306 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.080 Was the great things. I felt very validated because you know, 307 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:43.840 like I, it basically proved because the only way they 308 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.120 would have known what an elephant looked like was either 309 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.879 someone went to India and saw one or someone from 310 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.519 India came there with one. Africa would have been of 311 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:54.879 another possibility, but it would have been it would have 312 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.440 made even less desperate to have come from Africa because 313 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.519 of the geography and the distance of the time. The 314 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.000 Hindukush people would have made far more sense. And so yeah, 315 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.079 so I wrote, so yeah, that, but that's where she 316 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.920 first shows up, is that that Lupu street myth, which 317 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.160 is the oldest known myth that we have, Like I said, 318 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.440 it's about five thousand years old. And then she shows 319 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.640 up again, you know in in Judaic mythology, and the 320 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:26.000 Judaic people were originally Semitic tribes in the Middle East 321 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.759 at that time, and they definitely interacted with the people 322 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.319 of Uru and Uruk and possibly even with the Chatah 323 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.440 people that no longer exist existed by this time, which 324 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.240 is where I believe probably Lillis came from. Is there 325 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.359 was there was a there's a civilization we referred to 326 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:50.200 as Chattahyat that existed before any of this stuff got 327 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.680 written down. We know they existed. We also know they 328 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.839 were wiped out from the evidence we have. Most likely 329 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.960 they were matriarchal. They had never known war. They had 330 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:01.519 no army. 331 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:02.319 Uh. 332 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.119 Men women were in charge of the government. Men handled 333 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:06.880 public men, men handled public works. 334 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:07.680 Uh. 335 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.079 They had nothing but peace until the first time they 336 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:15.279 came across a horse riding guy, god worshiping military cultures. 337 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:20.759 And then they got murdered and enslaved man. And yes, 338 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.119 you know it's unfortunate, but you know, they they didn't 339 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:25.480 even have they had you know, they didn't have. 340 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.000 Fortifications, they didn't have weapons. 341 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.759 They they they they didn't make it. And uh. And 342 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.559 I believe that's probably where the Lilith myth began. I 343 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.880 think they're a little cult probably started there. Also. I 344 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.400 want to make one thing clear when I say cult, 345 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.680 because I think a lot of people, especially in the 346 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.079 Western mindset, misunderstand that word. When I say cult, I 347 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.000 don't mean like the way we mean that in the 348 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.720 modern sense, uh, in the monern sense. When we say 349 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.440 a cult, we kind of mean like a weirdoga booga religion. 350 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:58.599 Right when you're talking about ancient ancient religions. We we 351 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.279 a cult because there there's so many religions in the 352 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:03.519 ancient world, like like we refer to each different one 353 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.720 as a cult, even though that not but not in 354 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.359 the modern sense of that word, like the followers that 355 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:10.720 I have. 356 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:16.680 Exactly well, I mean, cult just means people who follow 357 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.319 a similar belief system, doesn't it. 358 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.920 It does, but but in the modern vernacular it's kind 359 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.559 of taken on a negative pens mean, like like, well, 360 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.359 it's not a real religion, it's just a cult. Right. 361 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.359 I don't want people to think I'm downplaying, you know, 362 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.240 those religions. 363 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.519 H So, she she was one of the first female 364 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.880 archetypical entities out there. 365 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.839 Yeah, and my I think she was the original goddess, 366 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:43.559 is what I believe. 367 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.200 I don't I can't prove that yet. One of these 368 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.160 days maybe, but you know, I believe that she was. 369 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.119 You know. The one thing that I find interesting is 370 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:59.680 that that the Jews integrated her into their genesis. Myth 371 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:04.599 asked the first wife of Adam right, right, and uh, 372 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:07.559 and she disobeyed Adam and was cursed by God for 373 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.680 disobeying Adam and and and tossed out into the land 374 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.720 of Nod, where where Cain would later later also be tossed. 375 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.559 She ended up like being cursed to give birth to 376 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.920 like one hundred still born babies every day until she 377 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.559 reached the Red Sea. And then God sent three angels. 378 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.519 And these are old school angels. These aren't guys in 379 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.079 togas with wings. These were like like things with like 380 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.319 twenty heads and you know, five thousand eyes, and they're 381 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.480 they're very scary looking things. He's been three angels to 382 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.319 her to basically give her a chance to repent and 383 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.440 come back and play ice, and basically gave all three 384 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.200 of them the finger and uh and jumped into the 385 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.720 Red Sea and became the the wife of one of 386 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.519 the demon kings of the sea at that time, the 387 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:58.400 slanted serpent, the Lebason, and and that became but just 388 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.400 she was demonized. And by that at that point, and 389 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:05.839 then she became in the jew Jewish and Hebrew mythology, 390 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:10.000 she became a demon. She became a thing to be 391 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.640 like feared. And even to this day, a lot of 392 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.880 a lot of Orthodox Jews they have palaceman's and symbols 393 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.920 that they wear were right on the ground when a woman. 394 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.599 Is in Labor having birth to ward off Lilith. 395 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.160 Question real quick too, because you know in some of 396 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.519 the old you know, oldest stuff with the l. 397 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.440 You know, you have Astrara mm hmmm. 398 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.920 You know, do you think there was an influence of 399 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:43.720 Lilith on that and they kind of like split her 400 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:44.079 in two? 401 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.440