Speaker 1: We got a little duet between Pitt Pull and Cindy
Speaker 1: Lapper rolling in on a Tuesday afternoon.
Speaker 2: What did you do to us? What is this? Dave?
Speaker 3: That's that's old disco song. It's called Let's All Chant
Speaker 3: by Michael Zager Band.
Speaker 1: Is that one of the tracks you played when you
Speaker 1: were at disco Dave?
Speaker 3: When I was beIN in the Wax back in the
Speaker 3: late seventies. That was a hit, didn't I hit?
Speaker 2: Was it DJ Dave? What was your DJ d It
Speaker 2: was just a Dave? Yeah. I worked at a couple
Speaker 2: of clubs locally.
Speaker 1: The front page twenty first South Broadway over here, okay, Broadway?
Speaker 2: Old enough? Is that? What where the movie theater is now?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, sorry, it's on Main Street.
Speaker 3: It was called the Broadway and it's in a down
Speaker 3: It's now just an office downstairs.
Speaker 1: But we had a night club, disco in there. What
Speaker 1: was the name of the first club you said?
Speaker 3: The front page, twenty first South ninth East. Okay, Now,
Speaker 3: I think a Walgreene had a big lit dance floor.
Speaker 2: It was awesome. Was it really lit? Oh? Yeah? Was
Speaker 2: it lit like the kids say lit? Or was there
Speaker 2: like literally light?
Speaker 1: No? It was literally light like Saturday night fever. Okay,
Speaker 1: that was just saying I thought you were trying to
Speaker 1: be happy.
Speaker 2: No, it was.
Speaker 3: It was a lit floring and uh man, if that
Speaker 3: DJ Booth could talk.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's enough, let's move on.
Speaker 1: Dave Fox Live in studio, two pelotons, two ammys, Dave,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great? How easy? How was your President's Day weekend?
Speaker 2: It was good.
Speaker 1: I was honoring the decorum, decency, and honesty of the
Speaker 1: highest office in a lands. That's what we're supposed to
Speaker 1: do on President Day, right, Yeah, I love that I do.
Speaker 2: The same thing.
Speaker 3: I just I spent about an hour and I just
Speaker 3: meditate or I'm all or how honored we are to
Speaker 3: have what we have in this country.
Speaker 1: You don't strike me as a meditator. Okay, maybe I
Speaker 1: didn't meditate, that's.
Speaker 2: What I thought, but you definitely didn't work because the goat.
Speaker 2: I didn't. The goat was on the show last night.
Speaker 2: Yes he was. How was our guy Mikolic? He's doing great.
Speaker 3: Adams Sue, we we chatted briefly this morning and he's
Speaker 3: doing well.
Speaker 2: He's doing really well.
Speaker 1: How much to NBA All Star Weekend? Did you consume
Speaker 1: my gosh.
Speaker 3: Well, so, as you know the Fox household, every Sunday night,
Speaker 3: the entire family comes over. So there was a big
Speaker 3: debate do we watch the Saturday Night Live, which I
Speaker 3: just recorded and watched it later, or then we I
Speaker 3: had a handful that wanted to watch the NBA thing.
Speaker 2: So what was I reading? Though?
Speaker 3: Maybe you could help me with this, I want to say,
Speaker 3: in the three hour broadcast, I read somewhere that there
Speaker 3: was like a total of thirty eight minutes of basketball.
Speaker 2: I don't even think that, maybe not even that much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, in my view, awful, but a couple
Speaker 3: of family members wanted to see it, and so they
Speaker 3: sat through that, and it is what it's like. They
Speaker 3: keep trying to figure out ways to fix it. Maybe
Speaker 3: it's just time to move on.
Speaker 1: So okay, let me kind of kick the tires with
Speaker 1: you as far as where you're at with the whole topic,
Speaker 1: because ultimately, I definitely sound like the old dude that
Speaker 1: misses the old All Star games, but you're certainly a
Speaker 1: guy that's covered sports in the market. Ninety three was
Speaker 1: really cool. We have the NBA All Star Game here.
Speaker 1: It was a good game. John and Carl co MVPs.
Speaker 1: The game at MSG in two thousand, we saw a
Speaker 1: young or I think nineteen ninety nine, saw young Kobe
Speaker 1: go up against his idle Michael Jordan, and that game
Speaker 1: was competitive and it was fun. So where I'm at
Speaker 1: with it is I continue to be frustrated with the product,
Speaker 1: but only because I do remember when it was awesome.
Speaker 1: And when it was awesome, it was top shelf. It
Speaker 1: was the greatest pickup game in the world. It was
Speaker 1: the best basketball players in the world who showed up.
Speaker 1: They cared, they played hard, and they tried to beat
Speaker 1: each other, and simply put, that should not be a
Speaker 1: complicated formula. But to your point, I'm kind of now
Speaker 1: resigned to the fact that these dudes don't give a
Speaker 1: rip no matter where it's played, no matter what the
Speaker 1: format is, they just don't care. And if you don't care,
Speaker 1: guess what, we don't care. Yeah, here's the problem. Today's
Speaker 1: athlete has been enabled. I mean you could barely get
Speaker 1: him to care during the regular season, much less in
Speaker 1: an All Star game. Think about, you know, load management?
Speaker 1: What did I hear a comment the other day from
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan just laughing at the idea of load management.
Speaker 2: How old is he retired? Forty years old? In the
Speaker 2: PLA every single game with Washington.
Speaker 3: Granted, as you know, skills have diminished, but these athletes
Speaker 3: are enabled now and they rest for anything. Well, they're sure,
Speaker 3: is he not going to go put their all into
Speaker 3: an All Star Game? Back in the nineties, And you're
Speaker 3: right now, we're both being that guy. In ninety three,
Speaker 3: every game meant something, or at least to the athletes.
Speaker 3: They played every game and they play and even the
Speaker 3: All Star Game. It's it's the whole thing is I
Speaker 3: just don't see anyway fixing it short of paying every
Speaker 3: player on the winning team a million dollars or something,
Speaker 3: and even that, who knows because they make so much money.
Speaker 2: It's it's really just bad.
Speaker 3: And then I don't mind the round robin idea. It
Speaker 3: feels like they're just throwing out stuff and see what sticks.
Speaker 3: But the thought that you know, one of the teams
Speaker 3: is a bunch of kids who really aren't All Stars
Speaker 3: was just kind of weird, Like, does you know Zach
Speaker 3: Eatie and Dalton connect and Keyantay George deserve to be
Speaker 3: playing on All Star Sunday Night?
Speaker 2: I don't know. It just seemed weird. It's just a mess.
Speaker 3: I don't see any I like what the NBA or
Speaker 3: excuse me, the NHL is doing with that four nations thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of cool. That's been really cool.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the NBA has the answer to it,
Speaker 1: and look, they have a theoretical answer to it, because
Speaker 1: because I'll get people like, hey, what's.
Speaker 2: Your preferred format?
Speaker 1: My preferred format is a basketball game played by the
Speaker 1: best basketball players in the world who actually care.
Speaker 2: That's my preferred format. But I do think.
Speaker 1: There could be a little bit of juice with this
Speaker 1: international versus domestic players, the international pool versus the NBA players.
Speaker 1: It has been tried before, but this is different. You
Speaker 1: can make an argument right now, shake Gilges, Alexander Nikola, Jokic,
Speaker 1: Jannis Nbid when he's healthy, obviously Luca, like five or
Speaker 1: six of the top seven or eight players in pro
Speaker 1: basketball right now, or international players. So could they do
Speaker 1: a Rocky four type thing where Rocky goes to Russia
Speaker 1: and he's running through the snow and he's training to fight.
Speaker 1: I'll go and I'm honestly thinking out loudlier because I
Speaker 1: think even if they did that, the domestic players would
Speaker 1: go over to Europe or whatever, and they still would
Speaker 1: mail it in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I think. I think there's anything you
Speaker 2: can do to get these guys to.
Speaker 3: Carry and even the international team, they're still NBA players.
Speaker 3: Same look at Yokachi doesn't want to play. He didn't
Speaker 3: want to be at the All Star Game, right, And
Speaker 3: then here's this doesn't help either when you have, you know,
Speaker 3: the face of the league, Lebron shows up the day
Speaker 3: before and says I'm not playing.
Speaker 1: Not the day before, a few hours before the game,
Speaker 1: You're right, a few hours.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just stunning. But again, it all gets
Speaker 3: back to being enabled. It's it's their world. We're just
Speaker 3: living in it. They'll play when they feel like it.
Speaker 3: It's that way in the regular season. It's that way
Speaker 3: certainly in the All Star Game. You know, it's interesting
Speaker 3: because that the end season tournament is more competitive. I think,
Speaker 3: wouldn't you agree with this than the All Star Game?
Speaker 3: Now that's an entire team and the wins and losses
Speaker 3: actually count. But I don't even know how you would
Speaker 3: replicate that. You know, I don't think there's a solution
Speaker 3: other than just get rid of it. The Lebron stuff
Speaker 3: I think was a horrible look. Oh awful, for a
Speaker 3: few different reasons.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's just a bad look when you
Speaker 1: have not announced that you're not going to play, and
Speaker 1: so the general public is watching intros and then suddenly
Speaker 1: they say, okay from the Lakers Lebron James, and he's
Speaker 1: in street clothes and you're like, dude, what are you doing.
Speaker 2: But ultimately, if you're.
Speaker 1: One of Lebron's peers, I do not like that All
Speaker 1: Star games are in contracts, that the stipulation of if
Speaker 1: you make an All Star team, then you're gonna yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the point, You're gonna trigger a mechanism of a bonus.
Speaker 1: I don't like that they're in the contracts. But Dave,
Speaker 1: they're in the contracts.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So what Lebron just did is take two hundred and
Speaker 1: three hundred K out of.
Speaker 2: The pocket of somebody.
Speaker 1: Instead of saying, hey, I'm not playing, Okay, we'll name
Speaker 1: your replacement and then this player can get paid, Lebron
Speaker 1: selfishly took the spotlight for himself and just decided to
Speaker 1: sandbag it.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a really selfish, bad book for me.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's us getting back to the contract idea is
Speaker 3: just to word it that you get this bonus if
Speaker 3: you play in the All Star Game, not if you're
Speaker 3: named an NBA All Star. That might and but again
Speaker 3: that doesn't solve the All Star I'm just talking about
Speaker 3: your You mentioned the contract thing that might that might
Speaker 3: fix that.
Speaker 1: But my point is if Lebron said I'm not playing
Speaker 1: and they name his replacement, the replacement player gets his check.
Speaker 3: That's That's what I'm saying. That's that's the way that
Speaker 3: contract should be worded. But that's again that's not gonna
Speaker 3: happen because it's it's their world, their money.
Speaker 2: I do you just pay him?
Speaker 1: I do think we saw some fun Keyante moments. I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's anything that, Like I asked Tim
Speaker 1: McMahon earlier, like, is there anything he can take from
Speaker 1: the experience, And Tim didn't really think so. I mean,
Speaker 1: just to just to know that you were named in
Speaker 1: a group that has the best young players in pro
Speaker 1: basketball and you advanced to play on Sunday against the
Speaker 1: best players in the world. I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: stretching to kind of make this a topic, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure Keyante came home from that experience with a little
Speaker 1: pepminis step I would imagine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he had a nice first game. I believe
Speaker 3: the first game he had ten and they have three
Speaker 3: in each of the next two. I think when you're
Speaker 3: there in the moment, and you know this because you
Speaker 3: were referring to ninety three and then the one we
Speaker 3: had here just a couple of years ago, there is
Speaker 3: something cool about being in the moment there, especially for
Speaker 3: the younger players. Obviously the older players they're done with it,
Speaker 3: you know, they're just they know what it is. So
Speaker 3: I'm sure just that, and like you said, the idea
Speaker 3: of just being named and being there all weekend, that's
Speaker 3: that's a really cool thing. So and he really looked
Speaker 3: like he was having some fun, especially in that Friday
Speaker 3: game and he hit the game winner.
Speaker 2: You know, that allowed them to advance.
Speaker 1: So look, we're a market that's used to seeing our
Speaker 1: players play in the game and also participate. We have
Speaker 1: Dunk Contest champions with Donovan and Griff I think Jeff
Speaker 1: won the three point Contest one year. We've had all
Speaker 1: Stars and to only see one rep. Don't forget Jeremy
Speaker 1: in the Dunk Contract Jeremy Evans. I'm just I'm shaking
Speaker 1: my head because every year we'd hear this thing, like, hey,
Speaker 1: Jeremy Evans, he was able to get two more inches
Speaker 1: on his vert I'm like, did is he shooting free throws?
Speaker 1: Did he learn how to dribble and pass? Like? Thanks
Speaker 1: for the vert update on Jeremy, but he's getting jumpers up.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just kind of odd, you know,
Speaker 1: for the second straight year to have a very minimal
Speaker 1: representation for our local team and the dunk contest winner
Speaker 1: isn't even in the NBA. He's a good dunker though,
Speaker 1: Mac is fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but put him dunk? Well, Look, everyone Jordan competed
Speaker 2: Larry Nance Well, and.
Speaker 1: Here's the other issue, Dave, Like, in my opinion, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna grab Mac McClung, who's it good.
Speaker 2: He's a G League MVP. I mean, it's not like
Speaker 2: he's a bad player.
Speaker 1: You can go on YouTube and watch highlights of professional
Speaker 1: dunkers that are wild and NBA players have never touched.
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna let Mac dunk, go, get all
Speaker 1: these pro dunkers and let's have a little fun, why not?
Speaker 1: Because your point about so it wasn't as Jordan like
Speaker 1: Kobe participated. He yeah, don contest. Vince Carter was an
Speaker 1: awesome player, and they were great dunkers.
Speaker 2: There were great dunkers.
Speaker 1: I could keep going, Aaron Gordon, Zach Levine like, but
Speaker 1: Muggsy Bogues, I mean, how incredible was that Bogues, Dominique Wilkins,
Speaker 1: all fifty like all NBA seventy fifth anniversary team. And
Speaker 1: now these dudes are so scared to look dumb, and
Speaker 1: I think that starts with Lebron But like Zion Williamson,
Speaker 1: John Moran, and I could keep going. There are really
Speaker 1: good players that are really good dunkers, but they don't
Speaker 1: want to be embarrassed.
Speaker 2: It's like this weird, soft dumb approach. They're like Prima Donna's.
Speaker 3: But it all gets back to the whole weekend, and
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I think, yeah, I
Speaker 3: think you made the best point of all. I'm guessing
Speaker 3: there are a number of those guys that are excited
Speaker 3: to be a part of it only because they have
Speaker 3: some big bonus coming to them. Other than that they
Speaker 3: could do without it well.
Speaker 1: And the money is so big now doesn't even motivate
Speaker 1: them and try hard.
Speaker 2: That's very true.
Speaker 3: That's why I don't think you could pay him spence
Speaker 3: because how much could you pay him that would make
Speaker 3: what they are already making worth it?
Speaker 1: No, like one hundred million if you play hard, like
Speaker 1: you know, the money is already astronomical. And I'm for
Speaker 1: the players getting their fair share of the pie. But
Speaker 1: if you're going to show up and mail it in
Speaker 1: because you know your check is coming anyway, then we're
Speaker 1: watching a product that's being run like a fortune five
Speaker 1: hundred business and not an entertainment product.
Speaker 2: And I do think that's an issue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you refer to some of the you know,
Speaker 3: I had another game pop into my head. There was
Speaker 3: an All star game was in Phoenix. I don't remember
Speaker 3: the year. Karl Malone, I want to say, game winning shot,
Speaker 3: not for his team, and he jumps up and I
Speaker 3: think he accidentally tips it away. And then afterwards one
Speaker 3: of the guys that's doing the play the being interviewed says,
Speaker 3: I think I think Carl was point shaven.
Speaker 2: Oh really, I do not recall this. It was a
Speaker 2: game in Phoenix.
Speaker 3: They were kidding around, but they the point is it
Speaker 3: went down to the last second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they fought to the bitner.
Speaker 3: You know what, the game in Utah ninety three that
Speaker 3: went to overtime I believe was a game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it.
Speaker 3: No, it was, And that's just that's just it shows
Speaker 3: you how far we have drifted away from the competitive
Speaker 3: nature of that game. And look, the NFL finally realized
Speaker 3: that that game stinks and what they're doing instead isn't
Speaker 3: much better. But I don't see a solution to these things. Baseball,
Speaker 3: you know, you show up, you get one at bat.
Speaker 1: But the main you know, so I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't do a lot of combative radio, right. But
Speaker 1: when somebody says, well, what about the Pro Bowl? What
Speaker 1: about the Major League Baseball All Star Game? The Pro
Speaker 1: Bowl was never good, No, And the NBA All Star
Speaker 1: Game was good once upon a time. That's the difference.
Speaker 1: Like the Pro Bowl has always been horrible, the NBA
Speaker 1: All Star Game for thirty forty years was awesome, and
Speaker 1: now that it's not, I don't know. I think maybe
Speaker 1: I just need to move into the area of acceptance
Speaker 1: that this is not something that's going to be fun
Speaker 1: ever again, the way that it used to be.
Speaker 3: The whole weekend's fun for fans to show up when
Speaker 3: it was here, it was cool. Go see all the
Speaker 3: great displays and that at the salpeals. But it's the
Speaker 3: games just it's brutal, all.
Speaker 1: Right, h we'll end with the little college football before
Speaker 1: we get there. Twenty eight games left for the Utah Jazz.
Speaker 1: The playoff pushes on. It's very much not uh oh,
Speaker 1: there's a playoff push, but it's a playoff for the
Speaker 1: lot It's a lottery push.
Speaker 2: What do you look? What's exciting about the final twenty
Speaker 2: eight for you?
Speaker 3: Okay Spence, Here's what I think, And maybe I'm gonna
Speaker 3: be wrong, but this seems to me like this is
Speaker 3: the time where you're gonna start to see players sitting more.
Speaker 3: They did the same thing last year, if you remember.
Speaker 3: And then guys that are never going to be in
Speaker 3: the league, like Kenny Lofton became an All Star right
Speaker 3: overnight because he played so well in the last ten
Speaker 3: games of the year. I don't know when this is
Speaker 3: gonna kick in, but I just sense, if you're this
Speaker 3: close to you know where you want to be in
Speaker 3: that lottery, do you really blow it? Now?
Speaker 2: You Now you've harped on this for the last two
Speaker 2: or three years.
Speaker 3: The problem is the Jazz front loaded their wins and
Speaker 3: by the time this time of year rolled around, it
Speaker 3: was too late to seriously get into tanking. And what
Speaker 3: do they end up with a tenth you know, number
Speaker 3: ten pick something like that.
Speaker 2: The draft of a kid you can't play exactly.
Speaker 3: You are this close to getting to top three or
Speaker 3: top four, and there's three or four really good players
Speaker 3: out there. We all know Cooper Flags the Grand Price.
Speaker 3: I just don't think you run the risk of not finishing.
Speaker 3: And when I say not finishing, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: sitting down.
Speaker 2: Some of these players.
Speaker 3: Look at this next six game homestand there's two games
Speaker 3: that I think are almost impossible for the Jazz to lose,
Speaker 3: Pelicans and maybe Trailblazers. So the only way they've either
Speaker 3: got to resign themselves the fact that they're going to
Speaker 3: win those two and go ahead and surrender. Okay, see
Speaker 3: in Houston and Minnesota and maybe the Kings, or they're
Speaker 3: gonna have to sit them.
Speaker 2: They're a ton of players.
Speaker 3: So I'm of the thought that over that last twenty
Speaker 3: eight that you just mentioned, at some point you're going
Speaker 3: to start to see guys like you know, Mark and
Speaker 3: and section still hurt. But Clarkson, whoever, John Collins start
Speaker 3: to sit out. I don't know if they rest the
Speaker 3: younger guys because they really need even more time to
Speaker 3: you know, like call your in that. But that's what
Speaker 3: I think is gonna happen. Maybe I'll be wrong, but
Speaker 3: that's that's that's what I would do. Yeah to management Spence,
Speaker 3: because players aren't trying to lose.
Speaker 1: No, I think in a way they've been doing that.
Speaker 1: But to your point, like you've got to I think
Speaker 1: you got to step it up. You've got to run
Speaker 1: through the tape. You've got to finish what you started.
Speaker 1: There may be a point where you hear the shutdownward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at this point, why are you playing anyone?
Speaker 1: I guess when you know what the deal is. It Look,
Speaker 1: I keep using this line what the Jazz are doing
Speaker 1: is the right thing to do, but it sucks.
Speaker 2: It just does if you're if you're a fan, it's tough.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think a lot of jazz fans simply
Speaker 1: want to go to a jazz game, eat a hot dog,
Speaker 1: and drink a beer with their friends and go home,
Speaker 1: you know, like they're fine with the deal because it's
Speaker 1: winter here it's cold, and people just want to kind
Speaker 1: of go watch a game. Maybe they don't give a
Speaker 1: rip about exactly how competitive the team is, but the
Speaker 1: diehard Jazz fans really badly want to see a competitive
Speaker 1: team have to really have had a frustrating.
Speaker 3: Year, and I really only think this is they only
Speaker 3: need to do it. I know we've talked about another
Speaker 3: year of tanking. I think this is it. You do
Speaker 3: it now, get in that top three, maybe even number one,
Speaker 3: and then you're off and running.
Speaker 2: That's my opinion. Have you seen AJ debounce?
Speaker 3: Yes, I know, but I don't think you can survive
Speaker 3: another year of this. These kids are anxious to get going.
Speaker 1: Could be a guarantee, if it was a guarantee that
Speaker 1: you get Cooper flag this year and AJ Debonnson next year.
Speaker 2: I think you do it if you could guarantee it.
Speaker 2: But you know you can't.
Speaker 1: You cannot, all right, Dave, Before I set you loose,
Speaker 1: Since you and I last spoke after twenty years on
Speaker 1: the job, Tom Homo is a very nice vacation. He
Speaker 1: did a hell of a job in a spot where
Speaker 1: just that job the athletic director for BYU has to
Speaker 1: be among the hardest jobs in college athletics administration. You
Speaker 1: have to align yourself with the message of the institution
Speaker 1: while running a department that is probably least aligned with
Speaker 1: the institution because of the diversity involved. And ultimately, I
Speaker 1: think Tom traverse the space in a very very respectable manner.
Speaker 1: Give me your thoughts for a sets. Great absolutely great guy,
Speaker 1: hard workers.
Speaker 3: You said, I don't think people really understand how difficult
Speaker 3: it was to navigate the era of independence. I know
Speaker 3: he had two or three assistants who are strictly in
Speaker 3: charge of helping with scheduling. When you're in a league,
Speaker 3: you know this. What are you looking for? You're looking
Speaker 3: for two or three non league games, not when you're
Speaker 3: an independence. And he did a masterful job of that
Speaker 3: great person. I've known him well for many, many years,
Speaker 3: and I'm happy for, you know, whatever led to this
Speaker 3: and whatever's next for him and his wife and their family.
Speaker 2: I think it's great.
Speaker 1: Did you attend the press conference for the station or
Speaker 1: we sent the goat?
Speaker 2: Oh? Why didn't you go? It was too early, all right,
Speaker 2: I had to work late that night. TV Gold tonight.
Speaker 2: What have we got? Well, it is solid gold, because
Speaker 2: you know what we've got tonight.
Speaker 3: We've got talking jazz with the one and only Spence
Speaker 3: checkets who will join us? And you're gonna hear I'll
Speaker 3: play a little snippet if you give me something good
Speaker 3: on two News at ten.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I'll do my best. Then, well, I thought
Speaker 1: it's at ten thirty five. Other than that, the actual
Speaker 1: show is at ten thirty five on KMYU Television and
Speaker 1: we stream.
Speaker 2: It as well. Dave, great to see my friend. I'll
Speaker 2: see a few hours. Heay, thanks man. Two pelotons too, Emmys,
Speaker 2: Dave Fox