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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am joined by one

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of the most certifiably fantabulous sickos in the business, and

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it is his sendoff from the podcasting world. I think

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for quite some time. He is Brian to Porek. He

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is a multi senior multi platform editor for Bleacher Report.

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He covers the NBA for Forbes and for Liberty Ballers,

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and he was until recently the co host of the

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NBA podcast. You should still go subscribe over there because

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moret is good people, And look, July is not over yet,

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so he might appear on one more episode there of

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pre recorded audio that he has. But it is mister

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Brian to Poorrek. You know him well. He's been so

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gracious enough to come on a bunch over the past

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few months. We are back to talk about which NBA

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players have more trade value. It's like typical, Oh, we're

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pretty much in August people type of content. Mister dapoork,

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how are you doing? Are you gonna like, is there

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any chance that you'll get misty eyed by the end

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of this episode because you're not gonna be podcasting for

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a couple minutes.

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Speaker 2: I think there is a real fans. Yeah, I broke out.

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Speaker 3: So we had our house staging today because we are

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getting ready to move in a couple months, so we

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had to hide every possession in our entire house either

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in a closet or our utilety room. So as I

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was frantically unpacking today, I was like, oh, I guess

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I do need my microphone one more time.

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Speaker 2: So I could not have asked for a better send

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off in this.

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Speaker 3: Thank you as always for having me very much looking

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forward to this, and then yeah, I'm going radio silent

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for at least a month or two.

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Speaker 1: You have a good reason. Though you announced the birth

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of your second child. We are all very excited for you.

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We're also already lamenting collectively the lack of sleep that

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you're going to have over the next few months.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yep, at least this time we know we as you

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said number two, so we are well your eye as

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to what to expect with the newborn. I hear the

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toddler tends to be the trickier one.

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Speaker 1: Well, because they're mobile, right, Well.

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Speaker 3: They're just you know, they're he's been used to being

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the only child for a three plus years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they they're like.

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Speaker 3: We are very aware of what's coming in the next

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few weeks, and he has no idea beyond you know,

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we've been reading in books and talking to him a

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bunch about it. We brought out all the baby stuff today.

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But yeah, I think it's still going to be a

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pretty big shock to the system.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a situation where in Houston

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they were like trying to put other stars around James

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Harden at one point and he just couldn't. But here's

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hoping that your son is better adjusting to another ball

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dominant co star in your family.

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Speaker 2: How dare you compare him to James hard how dare you?

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Speaker 1: Hey, you're gonna you're probably raising him as a Sixers fan.

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I didn't compare him. I said, he's hoping he's better then.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well he does have the emotional maturity of James

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Tarrten right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, so.

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Speaker 1: For anyone at home, the way this is gonna work is,

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I have a list of players and we're gonna just

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basically like exchange them. We'll pick them out of the

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list which player has more trade value Right now, as

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of July thirtieth, we're recording this. We will take in

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whatever factors Brian and I want as the other exchanges

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them should be. I'm hoping I came up with interesting

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enough pairings to where it's close enough and you're not like,

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oh this is this is super easy. I'm sure there'll

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be some of those. But if you are ready, though, Brian,

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I will get us started. Who's more trade value, Darius

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Garland or Jamal Murray?

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Speaker 3: Ooh ooh interesting? All right, yeah, this is time. I mean, so,

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Jamal Murray's got one year left on his contract, probably

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gonna get a full max. I mean, reportedly was had

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already agreed to an excession.

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Speaker 2: That he is.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that was sort of oh, you want

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to go play for Team Canada, like you go not

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injure yourself and then.

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Speaker 3: Very well might have been. So I'm assuming he's going

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to get extended the summer. If he doesn't, he's going

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to get the full max next year. And I think

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that bakes into the trade value. I would think because

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he's won the championship already, he's proved that he can

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be the number two guy on a championship team, he

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probably has more, although I mean, I guess it's if

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you are convinced that you can resign him. If the

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Nuggets decided they were going to trade Jamal Murray and

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you thought he was a real flight risk, like it

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is he a possible rental, then Garland would have more.

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But if it was you're you're going to trade for

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Jamal Murray and you're gonna give him a four year

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max extension and he's going to sign it, then I

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think teams would rather have Jamal Murray in a vacuum.

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So I lean that, But I'm curious if I'm totally

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off base or what you think.

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Speaker 1: They're So if I'm just gonna assume that Jamal Murray's

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gonna sign his next contract with whoever he's traded to,

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I'm still probably taking Darius Garland by a hair because

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and part of this might just be I think he

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has more offensive upside as a main guy, whereas we

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are in year whatever of Jamal Murray and Denver and

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it's these. Part of it might be the way Michael

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Malone plays them. I think when you look at it,

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more and more of Murray's minutes, a larger share of

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percentage wise will come next to Nikole Jokic. So that

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might be a preference or is it a necessity because

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they don't trust him to run bench units. We've seen

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I know it was the East, but we saw Darius

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Garland pre the Cavs being loaded make an All Star team,

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and he's had trouble adjusting to a smaller role, which

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in last season anyway, he was getting hit in the

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face like ten times per thirty six minutes or whatever.

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It was, Like, I just would hold that hope that

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I think he would be a little bit more shifty

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as the alpha creator on the offensive end. And I

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say that though Jamal Murray's hit incredibly big shots, like

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clutch shots in the playoffs, in the finals, he's won

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a championship, he's also like it's not all the time,

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but he has a gear defensively that Darius Garland does not.

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So it's close. I say it's by a hair. But

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if we assume Murray's gonna have sign his next contract,

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I'd probably prefer to have Darius Garland on the fun

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max then Jamal Murray on the thirty max deal.

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Speaker 3: That is a baracritique. And yeah, I mean the injury,

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there's certainly a concern there. I think for me Garland,

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it's wrong to say he's like backslid because he just

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his numbers of course went down when they got Donovan Mitchell,

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and we've seen what he's able to do without Mitchell,

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Like I understood those you know, the words that got

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leaked where Mitchell signs the extension, he's going to request

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a trade, Like I would like to see Garland on

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his own team, you know, like if the Spurs traded

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for him this offseason, I thought that was a perfect

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landing spot for him. And I think had he gone

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there played with Wemby, this is probably Darius Garland by

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a good degree a year from now. But without seeing that,

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it is hard to remember of like, oh, there is

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the Darius Garland who you know has this like all Star,

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if not all NBA upside and it's like, oh, okay,

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why you know, I know, Jamal Murray has also never

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been an All Star.

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Speaker 1: But again we've the West is the West, and honestly,

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if Jamal Murray never gets injured, maybe this isn't even

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a debate.

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Speaker 3: Potentially, yeah, I mean he's you know, playoff maybe that's it,

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Darius Garland over regular season Jamal Murray and then playoff

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Jamal over Darius Garland.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but he was banged up. Of course, like playoff,

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Jamal can be all over the place too, So I

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would just take Garland by a hair. But it's more

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about me betting on what Garland hasn't done or what

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I think he could do, Because if you're going by

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track record, I think it has to be Jamal Murray.

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Who would you like? What is the one you want

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to throw at me?

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Speaker 3: This one just seems Taylor made for you. So I

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have to do it. And I feel like you're gonna

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to pay me back. So brandon Ingram or Julius Randall so.

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Speaker 1: Man. So Julius Randall's on a contract that he presumably

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would extend off of because he has that like twenty

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nine million dollar player option, whatever it is brandon Ingram

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wants that. I think we haven't heard anything about what

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Julius Randall wants. I'm sure he wants the max, but

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like the money that's been thrown around for brandon Ingram

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is no like he wants the the four years, two

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hundred plus million dollar extension. And not only does New

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Orleans not want to give it to him, but the

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reporting from Mark Stein has been that no team wants

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to give it to him. And that's kind of hampered

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his value. I I'm gonna go brandon Ingram, but there's like,

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Julius Randall's a two time All NBA player, and I

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thought he proved before he got injured last year that

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he could do more of the accessory work than it

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didn't have to just be all Julius Randall everything, and

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he would look out of place in this complimentary capacity.

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With that said, I think Julius Randall to me is

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a one position player. He can be a center on offense,

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but like you can't use him as the center like

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you would have Maybe on the Celtics. You could use

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him as the center on defense, but like because they

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have so many good perimeter guys or maybe in Houston

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or something, but brandon Ingram you could at least move

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around positionally more. But I just when it comes to

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brandon ingramor gives me pause, is that even when the

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Pelicans were at their peak last year and it was

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all Zion everything and they were working together, they still

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led such separate existences. It wasn't like, oh, look at

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that Julius Randall brandon Ingram two man game. Oh excuse me,

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Zion Williamson brandon Ingram two man game, and like Julius

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Randall has shown he can do the two man stuff

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with another fellow star. I I'm just it's Ingram, right,

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like Ingram is the answer?

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Speaker 3: Or is it?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Julius Randall's gonna take less than the max or

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maybe picks up his player options. So does he have

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more of a market? I just if you go through

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teams off the cuff, it's hard to find trade suitors

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rather one of these guys. But I just ultimately think

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there'd be more suitors for brandon Ingram, and that's why

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to me, I would default him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a trick question because the answer was

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neither neither of them have anything you would.

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Speaker 1: All, No, you don't think they have any trade.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I think both of

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them would.

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Speaker 3: I don't think either of them have the trade value

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that you would associate with the player of their talent,

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which is the reflection of they're both heading into a

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presumptive contractor Ingram definitely, Randall is presumably going to turn

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down the player option. To your point, we don't know

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that Randall is like gunning for the four year max,

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and frankly, after seeing why Jalen Brunson just did. I

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don't know how if you're Julius Randall, if you want

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to stay in New York, you cannot go to that

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front office with a great phase and say like, yeah,

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I mean, like, our best player just took you know,

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one hundred million less than he was eligible to receive,

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but I'm going to hold out for that full max.

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Speaker 1: Right he could say, well, look what you gave og

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Anobi and Brogs whatever they might just say, we gave

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it to og Ananobi because there were teams that would

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have given him the four year max. So you go

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out on the open market next summer and find the

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team that's gonna give you the four year max, and

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we'll give you the same deal.

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Speaker 3: Right yeah, I think to your point, Randall, I mean,

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I guess Ingram this past playoffs was horrific, but he

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was just miscast in number one role.

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Speaker 2: And maybe that's the same thing with Randall.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he was just so bad in the playoffs that

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one year because he was in the number one role.

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Speaker 2: And now you know, if we saw him.

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Speaker 3: He was hurt last year obviously, but like maybe on

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this year's next team, if he stays with the Knicks,

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and he's behind Brunson for sure, and then in some

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amorphus like two through four, I don't know who's the

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number two option on a given night between him, Ojan

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Andobi and Mikhale Bridges, Like maybe that will make him better,

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but I do I do have some concern that he

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is a quote unquote eighty two game player rather than

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a sixteen game player. And whereas Ingram, he like conceptually

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he should be the right answer.

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Speaker 1: Well, he had the what was that that series against

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the Suns without Zion a couple of years ago? Like

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he was a monster in that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I mean that's the thing we've seen

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him take. You know, the big hesitation with him is

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just he takes so many or did not take enough threes,

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takes too many mid range shots, and we've seen him

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in in New Orleans like he was taking six threes

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a game a couple of years ago. Like there's no

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reason that he couldn't get back to that. So is

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it just like a coaching thing, Like what what's the

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breakdown here that's holding Brandon Ingram back from his ceiling?

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It feels like Randall is closer to his current ceiling

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than Ingram is Ingram still has some room to grow,

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and I think that might give him a little more

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trade value. But given the contract, like if he sticks to.

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Speaker 2: I want a four year max.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't blame any team that wanting trade

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for him, because no team should want to give him

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before your matching.

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Speaker 2: No team should maxx either one of these players.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it is my turn.

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Speaker 3: I'm pleasantly surprised. I thought there was a really I

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thought there was a real if I trolled you with Randall,

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I thought there was a queer one you were firing

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back with. So thank you for sparing me, at least

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for now.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I was curious as to what you thought

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or who I was. Who you thought I was gonna

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throw out there? So James Harden or Karl Anthony Towns, this.

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Speaker 2: Is the patroll?

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Speaker 1: Well done, that's what I thought. This is the one

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I thought you were talking about. I'm trying to look

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at them, like, what does Brian not want to talk about?

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Let me do that one.

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Speaker 2: Next number four. I won't say the names, but number.

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Speaker 1: Four with oh yeah, duh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's what I think.

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Speaker 3: It's Karl Anthony Towns by a pretty significant margin.

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Speaker 2: And maybe I'm wrong here, but I.

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Speaker 3: Know there's the concern of, like, do you want to

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pay this guy thirty five percent backs under the new CBA.

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But James Harden is what thirty five are about to

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turn thirty five on it to year deal. Has torched

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his way out of three teams now in the last

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five years. Like, I would rather just pay or have

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the guy who he might have some concerns.

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Speaker 2: Can he be a number one optional championship team? No?

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Speaker 3: Can Jake Carden be the number one option championship team

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at the stage of his career. No, But Karl Anthony Towns,

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like hasn't mopd his way out of multiple teams, and

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you know, proved this past season that he could be

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integral on a team that went very far in the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: So while playing I think you would argue not his

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best position. He can play that position he's playing, but

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it's certainly not his best position.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think there are team constructs where he

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would make a ton of sense where that team. You know,

305
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like he is not a superb rim protector, So that's

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the concern with him. Can you build an elite defense

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of Karl Anthony Towns as your center?

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Speaker 2: Probably not.

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Speaker 3: But there are also teams like Indiana this year where

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maybe you should double down on offense if you have

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Carl Anthony Towns as your center and you have a

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point guard akin to Tyree's Taliban, like plug Karl Anthony

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Towns in Atlanta. I know that's been a popular one

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with Tree Young or a plug came in with Charlotte Flamelo

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ball and just say screw it, We're not going to

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defend anyone first to one hundred and forty wins.

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Speaker 2: Like I think there's a merit to that.

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Speaker 3: I think I would pretty sizably rather have Towns at

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this point, even even with the concerns about his contract,

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just because like Harden's one plus one, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean on a tidy number. With every year he's going

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and not having a market and so like it's easier

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to keep him on a repressed number. It seems like

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I still would pick Towns too. The four years two

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hundred and twenty point fours a lot for someone who

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feels like he's probably best suited as the third best

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player on a contending team, because I mean he was

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what would he what was he the third most valuable

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player on Minnesota this year behind Rudy and Edward. So,

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but here's what I would ask you, what's more likely

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that James Harden is able to fully adapt to whatever

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team he's on to either have a lesser role to

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allow a younger or better and more more ball dominant

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star to thrive and he's gonna thrive off of them,

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or Karl Anthony Towns is on a team where he's

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the center and they have an above average defense. I

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think it's the latter still, because you look at some

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of the teams, I feel like we're seeing it. Maybe not,

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I don't know if it's always on purpose, but doesn't

340
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it feel like we're seeing it more a little bit

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where teams might be building their defense from the outside

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in rather than the inside it. Like look at Houston

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00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,080
would be an example, even a little bit. Boston has

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christophs Porzingis and Al Horford, but like they've just even

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the Knicks might be a good example. I know Mitchell

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Robinson and Hartenstein, but if you're about playing Randall at

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center or cat at center, they probably have enough perimeter

348
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defensive talent When you look at hart and Og and

349
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McHale and even Deuce McBride right now to say like

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we could maybe have a kind of liability at the

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five and still have a good defense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as long as Towns doesn't fall out in twelve minutes,

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which is always the risk for him. But yeah, I

354
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think there are more teams where Towns would make sense

355
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,519
where like, Harden was a free agent last summer and

356
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no one either wanted him or was willing to make

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whatever sacrifices they needed to get him. But I think

358
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if Karl Anthony Towns became a free agent, teams would

359
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be lining up out the.

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Speaker 2: Door to go get him.

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Speaker 3: So I know, again, I know the contract, Like Harden

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without question is on a better contract than Karl Anthony

363
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Town's right now. But I think given their age, given

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what's happened over the last couple of years with Harden,

365
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I think teams would be very very nervous about trading

366
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,759
for him. It's like, if you're not going to be

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in LA or you're not going to an immediate championship contender,

368
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and even if you are, like I just don't know

369
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if you're winning a championship at this point with James

370
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Harden playing a.

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Speaker 1: Major role in your team, who do you have for me.

372
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 2: On this one?

373
00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:09,039
Speaker 3: It's just tailor made for you. Jayden McDaniels or Devin.

374
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Speaker 1: Vessell, Jade McDaniels or Devin Vessell. So I'm gonna go

375
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with Devin Vassell. The contract's a little more expensive. He

376
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,759
is not. He's one of those players. I'm trying to

377
00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:21,920
give a good analog. It's not as bad as this,

378
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:24,599
but it's like when some people think that DeAndre Hunter

379
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,319
is like a good defender because it just looks like

380
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,039
he should be. Devin Missell kind of has the movement

381
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,599
of just he should be a better defender than he is,

382
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:34,960
but he's not. And Jade McDaniels is all defense caliber.

383
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:37,400
We know this, But I also think Devin Vessell has

384
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,319
an on ball offensive package that a lot of people

385
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:42,920
just don't fully appreciate. Like he can get to his

386
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,480
pull ups, he can come around ball screens, he can

387
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:46,039
run a little bit of the offense, not a ton

388
00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:48,000
of it. I'd probably like to see even more of,

389
00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:50,400
Like what does the wemb Devin Vesell two man game

390
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,200
look like with better spacing around them in higher volume

391
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,000
of those opportunities. I think it's him because I value

392
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,599
the offensive malleability over mcdion daniels, who had a good playoffs,

393
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,920
but like his three point shot fell off a cliff,

394
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,319
and I don't I guess this could be a lack

395
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,640
of imagination on my part because it's not set up

396
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,200
for him to one have the space in the half

397
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,920
court to explore what he does on the ball a

398
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,279
ton but also just inside their pecking order, there are

399
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:19,200
people that naturally usurp him. I think I'm going with

400
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,119
Devin Vessel, where would you land here?

401
00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 2: I would go with the Cell too.

402
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:30,519
Speaker 3: It's close, but I think we've seen teams and not

403
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,640
the Jade McDaniels is this type of player because he

404
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,000
approved in the Super Run of the Playoffs that like

405
00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,440
his defense is so elite and that if you leave

406
00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:39,880
him open, he can knock.

407
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:40,519
Speaker 2: Down open shots.

408
00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:43,079
Speaker 3: It's not like you leave him open, then he's gonna shoot,

409
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,359
you know, twenty percent from deep and that's just how

410
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,079
you beat him. But we we just have seen teams

411
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,400
go with that strategy in the playoffs. It's just like, Okay,

412
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,440
this guy is just not not with McDaniel specifically, but

413
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,279
I'm thinking like a Mattise Thible or a Tony Allen

414
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,519
back in the day where like we are not afraid

415
00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:03,960
of you, and we're gonna send next for attention elsewhere.

416
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,799
Speaker 2: So if McDaniels can level up offensively this.

417
00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 3: Year, I think he probably overtakes with sell But because

418
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,119
the cell is so much more versatile offensively, I think

419
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,000
he'll have potentially more value in the playoffs.

420
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: Down the road.

421
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,759
Speaker 3: And I guess that they're pretty similar age wise, right,

422
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,160
if not the same age?

423
00:20:24,079 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are so Devin visell Is I think he's

424
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:29,839
twenty four, if I'm not mistaken. Did I get that wrong?

425
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,480
He is twenty three? And then Jade McDaniels I think, yeah,

426
00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:36,160
he should be twenty three. Two, I'm not mistaken. Yeah,

427
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,279
they're both both born in two thousand, so millennial millennium babies.

428
00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:43,680
Excuse me. I think that's gonna be a controversial one.

429
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,920
If there's comments or people are in discord, let us

430
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,079
know if it's just controversial to take Devin to sell

431
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,200
it over Jade McDaniels as a trade value asset. And

432
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,759
by the way, we should have laid this out the front.

433
00:20:53,799 --> 00:20:55,880
I'm not predicting any of these players would be traded.

434
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,039
I'm just curious that that if you were going to

435
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,240
move them, who gets you more?

436
00:20:59,640 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 2: Right?

437
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 3: Right?

438
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 1: It is my turn Zach Lavine or Ben Simmons, and

439
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,440
just as a framing in case some of the listeners

440
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,279
don't understand why, it's because of the contracts where zach

441
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,440
Lavine is three years, one hundred and forty plus whatever

442
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,880
it is. Ben Simmons is on an expiring deal, So

443
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,720
it's this you're trading for Ben Simmons because he's on

444
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:19,039
an expiring contract.

445
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 3: Yes, you're trading for forty million dollars of caps based

446
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:30,000
next summer. Ah can I I don't understand how we've

447
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,839
gotten to this point with zach Lavine.

448
00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:34,839
Speaker 2: And did you see the story on ESPN's day.

449
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: I think it was by oh Manet I forget who

450
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:42,160
I saw it earlier. There is some quote from like

451
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,480
a bold secution if that was basically like, well, zach

452
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:49,960
Lavine has never won, and he always just tries to

453
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,680
play his way.

454
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: So he can.

455
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 3: Either try to listen to his coaches or if he

456
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:58,519
wants to force his way out, he can come in

457
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:00,440
and just keep doing the same thing he's always done.

458
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,720
So it's like there, I'm sure there's some stuff behind

459
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,880
the scenes like it maybe it's not just the injury

460
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,880
stuff with zach Levin that's causing so much concern about, Oh,

461
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,000
this guy's got three years, one hundred and forty million

462
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:12,319
left on his contract or whatever the.

463
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 2: Actual number is. I just we've seen.

464
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:19,039
Speaker 3: Him be a good player much more recently than we've

465
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:20,319
seen Ben Simmons.

466
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:20,599
Speaker 2: Be a good player.

467
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 3: And I know it's I know it's just the expiring

468
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,480
contract with him, but like I would much rather unless

469
00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:31,039
you are fairly certain that we're gonna make good use

470
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,319
of this forty million dollars of cap space that Ben

471
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,039
Simmons is gonna open up. So if you're a team

472
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,920
that was already projecting to have cap space next summer,

473
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,359
and this is like your way of doing what Philly

474
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,519
just did this off season, Like we're gonna create sixty

475
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:44,960
five million dollars of cap space and we're gonna go

476
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:47,640
sign Jamal Marae next off season or something like that,

477
00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:48,519
then cool.

478
00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: Ben Simmons is the right answer.

479
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,599
Speaker 3: But Zach Lavine, like I just can't help but feel

480
00:22:53,599 --> 00:22:56,519
like the team that ends up trading for him is

481
00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:59,279
going to not regret it, Like it's gonna they're gonna

482
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:01,079
look back on this and be like, why was this.

483
00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:02,519
Speaker 2: Guy available for so cheap?

484
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: Like if if the Lakers were to combine DeAngelo Russell

485
00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:09,200
and whatever other salaries they needed to to get up

486
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,000
to zach Levine, and they don't even have to give

487
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,799
up one of their two first round picks. It feels

488
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,079
like an easy yes for them. So, you know, I

489
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,759
can understand why Simmons would have some appeal just from

490
00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:26,079
the we can become a Calf Space behemoth next offseason.

491
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,680
But it's also worth remembering, you know, free agents typically

492
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:32,880
don't like star free agent. I mean, you know, it's

493
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,039
been Jalen Brunston and Paula George since twenty nineteen, basically

494
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,759
since twenty twenty, so like it. You know, you can

495
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,960
shoot for the moon and hope that you get a

496
00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:45,279
Jamal Murray or someone a Brandon Ingram and Julius randal Evin,

497
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,799
but chances are you're either going to have to overpay

498
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:49,759
for them or it's just you're not going to get

499
00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:53,000
that player. So I think the calf Space panacea is

500
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:57,000
not always then when it's made up to be. Whereas

501
00:23:57,079 --> 00:24:01,480
zach Levian, I think has this still a pretty high.

502
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you. I think Zack Lvine's

503
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,400
the clear answer. Actually, I just wanted to see where

504
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,079
you're at. And also I am wondering if people think

505
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,519
if teams will be like see what the Sixers just did,

506
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:12,440
which was a masterclass in cap management, and think oh,

507
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,839
we could do the same, And that brings back cap

508
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,200
space planning a little bit. But just the free agency

509
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:20,519
landscape the past half decade or whatever does not support

510
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:24,039
prioritizing getting this loading up on expiring money to have

511
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,480
all this space. And the other thing, too, is what

512
00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:31,839
are the deals that are like so bad that teams, Oh,

513
00:24:31,839 --> 00:24:33,599
we really just want to even if you're not gonna

514
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:35,559
have cap space, we just want to get off it

515
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:37,720
is it if Bradley Beal would wave his no trade

516
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,440
clause to go to Brooklyn at this point? And then

517
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,400
it's like, and if you were the bulls, I get,

518
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,720
would you trade zach Lavine there need to be more

519
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:48,000
money whatever, But like, would you just trade zach Lavine

520
00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:52,000
for Ben Simmons' expiring contract if you could? I don't,

521
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:55,000
I honestly don't know. There's so the deals because the

522
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720
CAP's going up, and also because we so rarely have

523
00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:01,319
these super long, onerous the fact that we're talking about

524
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,440
Zack Lavine on a three year commitment is some albatross

525
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,359
is incredible when you think about it. So I think

526
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,319
that that makes it easy to select him, not just

527
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,400
because he has value on the court, but it's what

528
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:14,759
is the endgame? Like what is the contract that is

529
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:17,920
so bad? Aside from beals just because that no trade clause,

530
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,200
Like what is the like I don't even spot like

531
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,200
Zach Lavine's to me is not even just like if

532
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,759
I could sub that out for Ben Simmons and on

533
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,920
the Bulls in support of tanking, I guess sure. But

534
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,759
and also with Zack Lavine, we've seen him on an

535
00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:36,359
inept iteration of the Timberwolves front office basically and then

536
00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:38,319
going to the Bulls, which have just been a dumpster

537
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,119
fire logistically since he's been there, And so you could

538
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,240
say he's not a winner. He also hasn't played for

539
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,400
organizations that have ever fielded a team that should have won, right.

540
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, he's not a winner. Kids.

541
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 3: He's played on garbage his entire NBA career, except for

542
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,440
like the one half season where the Bulls had a

543
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,559
healthy line though.

544
00:25:57,599 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: And look they were good though, yeah like that.

545
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,839
Speaker 3: I know they were the number one seeds for that

546
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,680
the first half of that season Like, I think it's

547
00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:08,960
just I understand all of the concerns that go with Lavine,

548
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,440
But to your point about you know, Simmons and like

549
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,279
what if you follow the cap space plan? If anything,

550
00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:16,799
I wonder if this offseason is going to force more

551
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,960
guys toward taking extensions and like, you know, more of

552
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,440
the like middle class, Like if uh, I mean, who's

553
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:31,759
upright contract this year? Say Jonathan kaminga even like does

554
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:34,680
he just take the extension because he's scared that the.

555
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: Mark we had no unless anything happens with Isaaca Korral,

556
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:40,680
we didn't have any restricted offer sheets in free agency,

557
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,920
like even we had we got Paul Reed last year.

558
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, thank you for that. Yeah, Like

559
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,960
I I think I don't know.

560
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: If I were an agent, I'd be telling my clients

561
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,680
just take the extension because we we saw Carole Barton,

562
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:05,839
I mean freaking Tias Jones contract, Like, I know, it's

563
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,960
way too good to be signing I'm contract. So maybe

564
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,960
maybe this is just one year anomaly, but I'm gonna

565
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,200
guess a lot of guys are not going to chance that.

566
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,759
And then you know, if if the market corrects in

567
00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:19,440
twenty twenty five, maybe we see more guys are showing

568
00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:21,160
it next offseason.

569
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: But man, yeah, speak if it was a blip, maybe

570
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,720
that would explain some of it. But like, look at

571
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:30,200
what happened with Caleb Martin, look at what happened with

572
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,799
Malie Beasley, Like he ended up on one year, six

573
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:35,480
million after every pretty good year. Milwaukee. It's Gary Trent

574
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:37,640
Junior and Tyres Jones are taking real risks like those

575
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,759
two specific they're really betting on the market, just bouncing

576
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:43,559
back and we'll see how that plays out for sure.

577
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:50,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, my certain, Uh, Okay, let's do Let's

578
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:55,279
do two players who don't suck, uh, Stephen Curry or

579
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,279
Kevin Durant.

580
00:27:56,599 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: So they each they have similar So Kad was technically

581
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,480
extension of this year, which is just like he feels

582
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,720
like he's always extension eligible and request or requesting a trade,

583
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:07,279
Like it's like always one or the other with him.

584
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,680
So Kevin Durant has two years left on his contract

585
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:12,960
right including next season, so he has two years and

586
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,480
Steph is the same because he has that, Yeah, he

587
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,920
has two years left on his the own, including next season.

588
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,519
Steph's entering he's thirty six now, so like he's thirty

589
00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:23,519
six and a half. Kevin Durrant's entering his age thirty

590
00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:26,960
six season. I'm fresh off watching him just return to

591
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,160
Team USA and absolutely just destroy everything in sight. I

592
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:35,839
still think that it's Steph. I just in Phoenix last

593
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,440
year seeing how much he would struggle at points with

594
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:42,359
increased defensive attention. I almost feel like you need to

595
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,119
he's Kevin Durant. He's the fact that he's as good

596
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:48,880
as he is after suffering an Achilles injury is absolutely absurd.

597
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,240
But I almost feel like he's gonna need to be that, Like,

598
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:55,960
I feel like we're gonna see a reduced version of

599
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:59,640
Kevin Durant more than Steph. And maybe I'm wrong, because

600
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,799
Steph to work harder for his shots a lot of

601
00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:04,440
the time than Kevin Durant. I am also factoring in

602
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:07,359
kind of the vibes hear. It feels like every team

603
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:10,680
that Kevin Durant is on the vibes ever since he

604
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,960
left Oklahoma City have just submarined. And with Steph, it's

605
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,279
never going to be like that. And I don't know

606
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:19,599
who's the bigger injury risk at this point, just because

607
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,720
they both have major injuries in their rear view also

608
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:24,559
the fact that Kevin Durant played so much last season

609
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:29,000
actually concerns me moving forward. Yeah, so I think it's Steph.

610
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:29,799
Who would you pick?

611
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,519
Speaker 3: I picked Steph as well. I mean the vibeses thing

612
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:36,519
was one of the first things that came to mind

613
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:38,960
for me, which might be unfair to KD because a

614
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,559
lot of that is not necessarily his fault, especially in Brooklyn.

615
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,480
I think I think he was probably the least to

616
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,440
blame for that thing going in South. But I mean, Steph,

617
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,160
there is just some unquantifiable joy to the way he

618
00:29:54,279 --> 00:29:56,480
plays the game, and I think it's infectious and I

619
00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:02,160
think it probably gives his teammates extra confidence that, like, well,

620
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:05,400
we have this guy on the court, so we you know,

621
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,559
even if we're down ten points in the fourth quarter,

622
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,039
he's gonna pull up from thirty five feet and he

623
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:13,079
could you know, he goes on one of these heaters

624
00:30:13,519 --> 00:30:15,519
and all of a sudden, he can go on like

625
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,359
an eight to zero run in a minute, just by himself.

626
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:24,200
Whereas Katie, this is gonna sound harsh, and I don't

627
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:30,720
mean aggregators, but like we've seen Steph be the best

628
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,440
player on a championship team without question, we've seen it

629
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:37,880
at least twice, if not four times, maybe Kate, I

630
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,119
know KD got the finals MVP in both of the

631
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,880
years that they won it together, but like it was

632
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,240
always Steph's team, right, that was kind of the one

633
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:50,680
of the driving forces that led Kevin de or KD

634
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,400
the leap.

635
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,279
Speaker 2: So we still haven't seen KAD be the unquestioned.

636
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,839
Speaker 3: Best player on a championship team where we whereas we

637
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,079
have seen that with Steph, and I just have to

638
00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:04,039
weigh at it.

639
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: It's so it's if you didn't weigh that in, would

640
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,880
the answer still be Steph, though.

641
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,519
Speaker 3: It would be closer because like I mean in theory,

642
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,240
I mean really both of those guys are as plug

643
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:21,960
and play as you can get. Like there's no system,

644
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,759
there's no team that you could drop either of them

645
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:26,519
on where it's like nope, that guy doesn't fit. There

646
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:29,720
are a lot like talents, there are some teams where

647
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,960
it just would not make sense. James Harden, there are

648
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,920
some teams where he just would not make sense. That's

649
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,640
not the case with Steph or KD. And like KD

650
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,119
the archetype of however tall he is, I know he

651
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,640
refuses to admit he's seven foot so we'll say six

652
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:49,160
eleven guy who you know has whatever seven five seven

653
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,240
six wingspan, can shoot over everyone and one of the

654
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,119
best shooters in the game. That the best shooter of

655
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,240
the game, you know, KD. It's like you wish he

656
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:01,680
would fire more from deep than he does. He's a

657
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,759
great shooter, but yeah, like honestly, double the volume, like

658
00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:08,480
take a deaf number of threes and you'd be even better.

659
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,799
Kat just also seems again this is like an unfair

660
00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:16,599
perception of.

661
00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:18,119
Speaker 2: Him, I think, but he.

662
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 3: Doesn't seem to have that same sort of like takeover

663
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,240
gene or instinct that stuph does. Like Steph against Boston,

664
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,880
I'm thinking when they were down to one in Game four,

665
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:34,519
it was just like he he refused to let them

666
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:37,599
lose that game, whereas Katie I just don't see that

667
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,039
as often. It's like he's it's what Lebron used to

668
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,440
be killed for back in his early Cleveland day too,

669
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:48,680
where he's like too deferential, where he's like he needs

670
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,480
to be more.

671
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:50,839
Speaker 2: Selfish at times, and I don't.

672
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,319
Speaker 3: I don't think it's I'm not trying to call that

673
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:56,880
a selfish basketball player, because he very much is not

674
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:01,079
but he also understands the gravity.

675
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 2: Of moments I think a little bit more than KD.

676
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:03,680
And it's like.

677
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: Willing to put the team on his back and just

678
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,640
say like, no, this is this is my team, and

679
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,920
we are not losing tonight, and I'm going to shoot

680
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,920
thirty five times and I'm gonna score seventy five points

681
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,599
and that's that way.

682
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,319
Speaker 2: I just haven't seen that as much.

683
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: It's interesting that what you're using is the impotence impetus

684
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:25,119
to pick Steph if you factor out sort of the

685
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,519
intangibles part of the equation, whatever you want to call it,

686
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,319
and I think I would agree with you. But it's

687
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:31,559
also what concerns me about Steph too, because I would

688
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:35,000
trust him in more difficult situations at this point, but

689
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,400
because he has to work so hard to get his looks,

690
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,720
whether on or off the ball, I'm almost just like,

691
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,079
how is his body gonna hold up? And KD? Is

692
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,599
he's not this super especially we're gonna use him as

693
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,720
kind of like a big a lot of the times

694
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,680
on defense. He's gonna give you more value on that

695
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:53,519
end of the floor too, And yet I still go

696
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:57,119
Steph because I think that the ceiling on your team.

697
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,440
If these guys are your second, you're set your first

698
00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:03,279
or second best players. I still think it's higher with

699
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,759
Steph Curry than it is with Kevin Durant. My turn,

700
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,199
Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard. Mister, I'm just picking all

701
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,199
former sixers.

702
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 3: Great, Please don't have Tyre's back anywhere on this list

703
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,000
because I'm picking care.

704
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,559
Speaker 1: For anyone who This is so deep into the podcast

705
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:22,920
that it won't matter. I did pick players that I

706
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,960
could envision in some scenario like just becoming available for

707
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,199
the most part of like if the Spurs wanted to

708
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,199
get a superstar and decided, oh, we're gonna move Devin

709
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Vessel or the Timberwolves are looking to cut costs or

710
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:36,719
need an offense. But I don't expect most of these

711
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,360
guys to ever become available. But like it was o

712
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,000
Tyre's Max, he's not going anywhere. He's not even trade

713
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,320
eligible at the moment, so.

714
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is not on the foots Jimmy Butler.

715
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: So Butler has the player option he is this season,

716
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:53,039
and then a player option. Kawhi Leonard is starting his

717
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:58,280
three year extension UH this season, so that of course

718
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,800
factors in. But it's I don't know the injury of

719
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,599
it all with Kawhi man, right, I think I.

720
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 3: Lean Jimmy just for that reason. It's like, you just

721
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,960
cannot trust Kawhi to be healthy, to stay healthy throughout

722
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,400
an eighty two game regular season, and then be healthy

723
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,280
at the start of the playoffs, and more importantly, be

724
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,440
healthy at the end of the playoffs. I know Jimmy

725
00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:22,400
pat Riley roasted him at the exit interview this year

726
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,119
for his lack of availability during the regular season, So

727
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:29,599
if that forces him to play more and he gets hurt,

728
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,639
then that's a concern. But you know, we've seen him

729
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:39,119
since what twenty nineteen alone, two finals trips, and you know,

730
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,440
one game away, one shot away from a third on

731
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:46,280
a team that frankly probably had no business especially this

732
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,199
twenty twenty three he had zero business be going that far.

733
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,800
So I know there's the he wants an extension, He

734
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,039
wants it to year max. It sounds like other teams

735
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:57,800
were willing to give it to him if he did

736
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,159
force the trade out of Miami this offseason. So strictly

737
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,679
like the injury risk with Kawhi, I think has you

738
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,519
know he's on a below max it's only like ten

739
00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:09,599
million dollars below the max he could have taken.

740
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:11,079
Speaker 2: So if Jimmy gets.

741
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,199
Speaker 3: Ten million dollars more like, yeah, I'm willing to just

742
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,079
bet the extra ten million on Jimmy over the next

743
00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:18,480
three years because I at least think he has a

744
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:21,239
better chance of staying healthy. Unless maybe that's just Tim's

745
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,800
miles pirately catching up to him.

746
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: After all these years.

747
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a because he's not exactly a billboard of

748
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:32,280
durability either, right, right, it's I think Kawai still is

749
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,880
the higher ceiling as a player that more substantial peak.

750
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,199
But how long is he gonna sustain it? And they've

751
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,840
now tried everything. It was okay, load manage him, and

752
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,559
he's not gonna be healthy to end the season, all right,

753
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:45,719
let's just have him play. Okay, he's not gonna be

754
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,920
healthy to end the season. And so it's just I

755
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,320
think it is Jimmy Butler, but it's the fact that

756
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,000
he has free agency coming up or the player option,

757
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,920
and like Kawhi is under contract, and you know, Kawhi

758
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,039
could be it would be like if you're a team

759
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:02,159
that already has your player in place, I do think

760
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:05,239
it might be more tempting to have Kawhi come in

761
00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:11,760
than Jimmy Butler. Yeah, although a lot of people have it,

762
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,880
like wondered whether if Kawhi got traded, he would simply

763
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,679
retire because he doesn't want to let where he lives

764
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,599
right now, So you might have to bake that into

765
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:20,840
your calculus too.

766
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,519
Speaker 3: Right Like, there will be too if the Clippers when

767
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,079
the Clippers do decide to pivot, because it's pretty clear

768
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:28,519
that they're going to at some point in the next

769
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:31,599
few years, there will be teams that line up for Kawhi.

770
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: They're going to take the risk to do it.

771
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,679
Speaker 3: I just think Butler would be the smarter gamble of

772
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,639
the two. So I mean, yeah, maybe, because again, it's

773
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,920
kind of similar to the Jamal Murray thing where I's like,

774
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,760
if you're trading for Jimmy Butler and you're not confident

775
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,639
in your ability to resign him, you would probably offer

776
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,679
more for Kawhi Leonard because he is under contract. But

777
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,199
if you are trading for Jimmy Butler, say I'm going

778
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,920
to offer you the two year max and he's willing

779
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,760
to take it, I would be willing to offer more

780
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,199
for Jimmy Butler. But because I'm just so worried that

781
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,480
you know, Yesawi, I agree with you. Kawhi has the

782
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,840
higher ceiling we've seen. Kawhi when he's healthy, is still

783
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:15,199
two way superstar in a way. You know. The shooting

784
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,480
is what differentiates him from Jimmy. I mean, Jimmy's also

785
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:19,480
a two way superstar, but Kawhi is a much better

786
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:20,599
three point shooter than Jimmy.

787
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:24,559
Speaker 1: But well, what about playoff Jimmy.

788
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

789
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,519
Speaker 3: I forgot all of a sudden, he becomes to three

790
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:33,280
point shooter. It just like playoff Josh Hard Apparently. Uh No,

791
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:37,320
I still I still lean Jimmy, assuming that you're able

792
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,199
to keep him past this year.

793
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:45,119
Speaker 1: Do you think Jimmy Butler can be an effective like

794
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,159
secondary option?

795
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we saw it in Philly.

796
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just not used to seeing it in Miami. Basically. Ever,

797
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,360
at this point that I've deleted that part from my brain. Yeah,

798
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,840
that's a huge part of being the secondary option is shooting.

799
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,519
It the off ball shooting element that I feel like

800
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,320
we're like the he can do the like the catch

801
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,880
and drive stuff for sure. So your turn again, all.

802
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,199
Speaker 3: Right, it's not what I feel like I'm taking crazy built,

803
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,440
so I'm just gonna ask this and I'm hoping it's easy.

804
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: And I think it is Jeremy Grant or Kyle Kuzma.

805
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: It's Kyle Kuzma. I don't think the gap is big

806
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,000
enough on defense between them. Actually there we've been at

807
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:29,360
this weird tug of war where it was okay, Kyle

808
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,239
Kuzma was underrated on defense, and I felt like he

809
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,760
was overrated, and now he's underrated on defense again. And

810
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,119
I do think Jeremy Grant is the better secondary offensive

811
00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:42,760
option in terms of if you don't want this guy

812
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,440
to dribble and you just want him to shoot and

813
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,960
get out in transition, he's better suited for that. We

814
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,920
also kind of just have evidence that he doesn't necessarily

815
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,280
want to do that in super high volume. And just

816
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,119
the contracts, like Kyle Kuzma's deal is not only more

817
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:59,440
team friendly because of the actual dollar amount, but it's

818
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,719
on the scale and so you look at the way

819
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,559
the cap is projected to go up. He's already one

820
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:07,360
year deep into the four year, ninety million dollar contract

821
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,719
as of right now, sixteen point seven percent of the

822
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,559
salary cap. Next year, then that drops to fourteen and

823
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:15,360
then that drops to under twelve. And so Jeremy Grant's

824
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,000
deal is scaling up. And I think his deal if

825
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,440
he's still if he has another really good season, the

826
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,599
back end of those three years will not look nearly

827
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:24,280
as bad as I think a lot of people thought.

828
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:28,119
But I think the contract, even if I think Jeremy

829
00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:30,559
Grant's the better player, I don't think the gap is

830
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:33,440
big enough to I would just rather the flexibility of

831
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,400
Kuzma's contract. And it's not just saving a team money.

832
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:39,239
It's just it's easier to match salary with him. It'll

833
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,039
be easier to remove him if you want to. So

834
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:45,519
I think it's him, But I this is and there

835
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:47,480
are other scenarios like this. I'm actually gonna give you

836
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,079
one as the next one where the other player is

837
00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:53,800
clearly better, But like the contract or the injury history,

838
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,639
in some cases, it makes you, it might make you

839
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:59,159
gravitate towards the inferior player.

840
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: Right, it's the contract for me, I think it's Kuzma

841
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,920
pretty clearly here. Like I I mean, I know the

842
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,880
Lakers have been sipping around Jeremy, and like Portland fans

843
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,800
think like they have to get both Lakers picks to

844
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,320
get him.

845
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: I guess that's just that's a man.

846
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,199
Speaker 1: Look. I don't want to paint a fan base with

847
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:26,480
a broad brush, but Blazers fans this summer have been

848
00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:29,360
on one. It feels like relative to what their players

849
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,079
are worth via trade, relative to any doubts you have

850
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:35,679
about their rebuilding direction because they have like a shit

851
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,599
ton of centers and there's this weird mix of veterans

852
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:40,719
and their training future picks to get Anny Avdia, who

853
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,880
I love. So they've done some like and it's I, yeah,

854
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,480
I don't. The Blazers are in an okay position. I

855
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,840
just there's more ambiguity in Portland than Blazer that a

856
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,039
lot than some Blazers fans I think are crediting. And

857
00:41:57,079 --> 00:41:59,400
the other thing I'll say is, if you think these

858
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,719
players are worth all of these picks, your team would

859
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,599
have been better last season. Just like Toronto definitely held

860
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,679
on to their players too long. For the most part,

861
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,719
I think they decided they could have gotten a bunch

862
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,599
of og still, but they won another direction with the

863
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:16,679
package they accepted. They probably held on to Siakam for

864
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,960
too long. But people had a point when they said

865
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:22,119
everyone wants all these players in their starting lineup and

866
00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:24,360
it's the Raptors are not even a play in team,

867
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:27,519
and so there's there is that element to it. And

868
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:30,159
in Portland's just more egregious because did you just watch.

869
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,840
I know there was injuries, but like even when they

870
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,760
were fully healthy, and part of that is all right,

871
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,559
we've had Scoot in. You're dealing with these younger perimeter

872
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:40,880
players and Shane Sharp and Scoop and the learning curves

873
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,960
are cheaper, and they were banged up last year. Their

874
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:44,960
rotation was all over the place. I recognize that, but

875
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,000
I'm not giving First of all, I'm not giving two

876
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,360
first round picks for Jeremy Grant's contract in a vacuum.

877
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,000
If they're I guess, if you're a contender and they're

878
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:55,280
able to be like, Okay, it's draft Day and I'm

879
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,079
giving you. I know it's a bottom five pick, and

880
00:42:57,079 --> 00:42:59,400
then I'm also trading my next year pick. Sure, but

881
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,559
I'm not giving to post twenty twenty six first round

882
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:05,519
picks for Jeremy Grant. That's not happening.

883
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that is.

884
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 3: Those should be reserved for especially the Lakers, Like you

885
00:43:11,519 --> 00:43:13,760
gotta be really sure that's gonna help you win now,

886
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,519
because like I don't think Jeremy Grant makes them substantially

887
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:21,280
better to the point where they're a legitimate championship contender.

888
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,440
If you're giving both of those picks to do so,

889
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:27,119
that's the type of player you need to get.

890
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,079
Speaker 1: It would be nice to see Lebron and a d

891
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:31,199
play next to a two way wing again though, so

892
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,840
that's true. Look, I would trade if it was Dalton

893
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,400
connect salary and the twenty twenty seven pick. Would you

894
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,159
still not do it? I'd probably do it. I'm not gone.

895
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, to your point, I think like if you you

896
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,320
were able to quantify what one of those picks are,

897
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,000
it's like the mystery box element, especially for the Lakers.

898
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, sure things could.

899
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:53,199
Speaker 3: Break right for the Lakers because of the Lakers, and

900
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,679
things always break right for them, but.

901
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 2: They're the chance.

902
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 3: I mean, like we say that, but then remember most

903
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,639
of the twenty tens for them, Like they were so

904
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,760
bad that they kept getting top three or four picks

905
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:05,400
every year, Like.

906
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: That wasn't no, Dlo, Lonzo and Ingram were all number

907
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,880
two picks, weren't they?

908
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:14,639
Speaker 3: The Sixers had I think they if I remember correctly,

909
00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:18,880
they traded Michael Carter Williams for a protected Lakers pick

910
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,519
that got less protected every year and it ended up

911
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:25,199
not conveying until like twenty eighteen because the Lakers sucks

912
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:26,079
so badly every year.

913
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they just kept jumping in the.

914
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 3: Lottery, But like, you know, we've seen the Lakers have

915
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,639
some down years as well, and like, yes, there's a

916
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,519
chance that they just continue accumulating talent because they're the Lakers,

917
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:42,639
But there's also a chance they're so poorly run that

918
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,920
if you know, some star in his mid thirties doesn't

919
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,960
want to sign there because he wants to start his

920
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:50,159
entertainment career, Like when.

921
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: Lebron retires, they're going to be left with like.

922
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 3: Thirty three year old Anthony Davis and then what Like

923
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,719
there's a real chance there is significant downside to giving

924
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,639
up either of those picks. So yeah, and as a

925
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,039
total tangent from the trade value of Jeremy versus Kuzma,

926
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:08,199
But like frankly, I don't think either one of these

927
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,440
guys is getting more than one first round pick whenever

928
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,400
they do get traded. I think both of these teams

929
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,760
are going to hang on to these guys, probably longer

930
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,119
than they should, but I think Kuzma's probably getting moved.

931
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:22,199
I would imagine he's moving this year, sometime this year.

932
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,119
Speaker 1: There's no way both of these dudes are on the

933
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:25,960
same team at the trade deadline, one of them is

934
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:27,320
going to be on a different team.

935
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: I hope, Oh my god, it'd be such way for

936
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,920
both of them if if they don't get moved.

937
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:35,199
Speaker 1: Okay, are you ready for this one?

938
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: Boh boy?

939
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:45,039
Speaker 1: Yes, Larry market In or Zion Williamson and is this

940
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,239
this isn't I think some and it'll probably be Pelicans

941
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,000
fans and I'm not trying. It's just the injuries. Zion

942
00:45:54,519 --> 00:45:57,519
was in the middle of the performance of his life

943
00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:00,639
when he gets injured this year. That's literally what this is.

944
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:03,119
Is that lowry marketing. You can plug and play anywhere.

945
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,480
He doesn't have the injury history. Yes, Zion has the

946
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:10,599
higher peak, but there they're the injury concern and it's

947
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:12,519
not even oh, Zion's out of shape or is that?

948
00:46:12,599 --> 00:46:15,199
Like everything was on point for this guy this year

949
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:18,119
and he still got injured and it just it sucks

950
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,199
full disclosure. I would still take Zion, but I think

951
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:25,480
it's probably more of a question than people might care

952
00:46:25,559 --> 00:46:28,559
to admit or might care to contemplate, I should say.

953
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's fun So we're recording this in late July,

954
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:36,880
so before Laura Marketing is eligible tociety renegotiating extending his contract.

955
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,800
And what's funny is I think his trade value might

956
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,440
decline within the next week or two, like once he

957
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:47,480
renegotiates and extends. I mean it sounds like he will intentionally.

958
00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 2: I know there's like a.

959
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: One day window, like he's eligible August sixth, and then

960
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,400
if he gets traded in August sixth, he can sign

961
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,280
the extension with his new team one day with the

962
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,679
trade deadline or whatever. So like there is a chance

963
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,760
that happens. But it sounds like he wants to intentionally

964
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,480
wait until August seventh so he will not be traded eligible.

965
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:09,559
Speaker 1: Which is what I would do. By the way, you

966
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,000
have family, You don't want to uproot your life. But

967
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:13,719
I would think, you know how you and I have

968
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,159
talked about it would be we want to see the

969
00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:20,039
second Apron team inflate someone's deal to the exact amount

970
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:22,320
of just like someone else is making. It would just

971
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,039
be really funny if so, he signs the extension August sixth,

972
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,280
and like there's a report like two weeks later or

973
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,639
something like Larry market In purchases home in Bay Area

974
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:31,280
or something.

975
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:37,159
Speaker 3: It's the extension be the exact amount that Draymond Green

976
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:42,679
Rights are making combined. Yeah uh ah man, Yeah, so

977
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,559
I think right now, because he's on an eighty million

978
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:48,480
dollar contract, it's just so easy to match salary for him.

979
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:51,519
Where Like, once he's on, assuming he does get a

980
00:47:51,559 --> 00:47:57,360
full max deal, I think once he gets the max deal,

981
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,480
I prefer Zion, But right now, at this very moment,

982
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:03,639
I prefer marketing because it's easier to match salary.

983
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: Is it even close once he's on his max or

984
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,039
near max?

985
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: I think it's still close. And like it wouldn't shock

986
00:48:11,559 --> 00:48:14,320
me if both of them got traded and Laurie got

987
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,880
more because Danny Ainge is Danny Ainge and that's just

988
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,000
what he does. Whereas Zion, like, you know, we're reaching

989
00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:23,639
the point with him where the talent is so immense,

990
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:26,159
But if he just keeps getting hurt over and over again,

991
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,599
like the trade value fallows with every single injury from

992
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:31,960
this point forward, Whereas like Laurie, you know, God forbid

993
00:48:32,039 --> 00:48:34,400
he tears the acl or tears the Achilles with something like,

994
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,320
I don't think any team's gonna hold that against him

995
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,079
the same way they even if Zion just like strained

996
00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:42,320
his hamstring again, like, I think that would be more

997
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,599
detrimental to his trade value than the tor intended would

998
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:46,280
be for Laurie's.

999
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,679
Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's your turn again.

1000
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: All right, hmm Okay, that's the phem Austin Reeves or

1001
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,360
Jonathan Kaminga.

1002
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: I feel like, if I want to stay on brand,

1003
00:49:03,519 --> 00:49:05,599
because Warriors fans were mad at me for some things

1004
00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:09,280
that I've said about Jonathan Kaminga recently, I should say

1005
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,960
Austin Reeves. I do think it's Jonathan Kaminga because I

1006
00:49:13,039 --> 00:49:16,159
still what he has the potential to do defensively and

1007
00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:19,440
if you can just trust him to hit even set threes,

1008
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,760
so if he's a three point shooter that just opens

1009
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,360
up his game to the rim, I think it's him,

1010
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,239
and it has look if he's gonna make more than

1011
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,599
Austin Reeves and his extension. So I'm even I'm taking

1012
00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:31,960
that into this that I know he's on his rookie

1013
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,559
scale right now, I'm thinking he's gonna get like, I

1014
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:38,239
don't know, probably twenty plus million like, it wouldn't shock

1015
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:39,719
me if you got in the twenty five range. With

1016
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:42,280
the way that the Warriors seemed to really value him,

1017
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,800
I still think I'm taking him because of just I

1018
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,360
think we've seen the best version of Austin Reeves already

1019
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,920
and is a good player, I don't know that we've

1020
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,880
seen his opportunity was inconsistent until basically a point last year,

1021
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,800
and I think you could argue that Golden State's offense

1022
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,599
isn't necessarily built right then or now for him to

1023
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:03,599
be at his peak or in the proper role. Maybe

1024
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:05,000
next season will be a little bit better, but the

1025
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,440
spacing could be shaky. It depends on just the types

1026
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,880
of rotations they're running, and how is danthy Melton doing

1027
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,360
with his shots? How much they playing? But heal, YadA, YadA, YadA.

1028
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,920
Is Draymond Green hitting threes again, because like once every

1029
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,519
five years he decides to do that apparently. So I

1030
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:21,760
think it's Jonathan Kminga. Where do you land on it?

1031
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one's tough, Like, I love to know what

1032
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,599
Kaminga got on his next contract because that will factor

1033
00:50:29,639 --> 00:50:30,480
in so much too.

1034
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what he's gonna get and it'll

1035
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,320
be an average annual value of twenty five million dollars.

1036
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 2: If it was that low, I would take kamena.

1037
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,039
Speaker 1: Oh you guys really higher.

1038
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm worried.

1039
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: I really got it. I'm worried that's the thing, the

1040
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,280
cat going up. I'm good at analyzing stuff in real

1041
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,119
time and saying oh, okay against the cap, but I

1042
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:52,519
have no feel for the like remember we did the

1043
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:54,960
over under on the extensions, Yes, and I just I

1044
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,079
went back and looked at it quickly like whateverthing was like,

1045
00:50:57,159 --> 00:51:02,920
oh okay, So I have no pulse apparently for what

1046
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,559
the actual market is gonna be said at I'm thinking

1047
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:08,159
twenty five is like, okay, twenty seven I could see

1048
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:10,440
it like, oh, you think he's gonna get in the thirties.

1049
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean a max for someone of his experience,

1050
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,440
assuming the cap goes up ten percent, which is going

1051
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,199
to thirty eight point seven million.

1052
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:25,599
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's a keep forgetting but still law. Honestly,

1053
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:28,280
I guess so if he's is thirty the better number

1054
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,400
to assume, then I think so? Right, So thirty million

1055
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,199
for let's say, let's say it's not five years, let's

1056
00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:37,400
say four years, one hundred and twenty million. That feels

1057
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:38,199
like a nice middle.

1058
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: Grand Yeah, I.

1059
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 3: Would. I would be happy if I could keep it

1060
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,800
that well, Like, that's what I'm wondering if he was

1061
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:48,480
even higher.

1062
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm actually because I've said that I think Jonathan

1063
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,079
can make a could be a fantastic player. But we're

1064
00:51:54,119 --> 00:51:58,159
extrapolating based off such a small set like the thirty

1065
00:51:58,159 --> 00:51:59,880
eight game or forty one game stretch that you have

1066
00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:03,360
last year. I just can't extrapolate like it was half

1067
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,400
a season for a team that did nothing at the

1068
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,840
end of the day, right, so, and I know they

1069
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,760
went on that run, but it was a half a

1070
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,679
season basically. So I'm just worried we're extrapolating too much

1071
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,000
because I do think. Do I think that he could

1072
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:21,079
be like a bouncy or more physical Paul George. Probably not,

1073
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,440
But if you told me he made All Star appearances,

1074
00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:27,559
I would absolutely be like, Okay, So maybe I'm actually

1075
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:29,559
too low on him when I just thought the consensus

1076
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:31,079
was that people were too high on him.

1077
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I think there's no question is the

1078
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,559
higher ceiling than Austin Reeves. It's just the reason I'm

1079
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:39,880
asking is like Austin Reeves is locked into this cheap

1080
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,960
contract for another few years, so I think that fuels

1081
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,159
a lot of his trade value, whereas Kaminga, if he's

1082
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:49,119
on you know, four years, one hundred and twenty million,

1083
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,599
he might actually preserve some trade value. If he's on

1084
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:55,039
five years, one hundred and seventy five million, like what

1085
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:58,440
a Manuel quickly just got, then I lean probably a

1086
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:59,960
little more toward Austin Reeves.

1087
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: So, so, what's the number that would make you need?

1088
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:02,679
Speaker 3: What?

1089
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,159
Speaker 1: Like, what's the this is the most he could make?

1090
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:08,639
Like it gets to this number, and now I'm definitely

1091
00:53:08,679 --> 00:53:11,039
picking Austin Reeves. Is it five and one sixty? So

1092
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:13,920
forty million? U scary? Thirty million dollars a year over

1093
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:16,559
the over thirty million a year over five years? Is

1094
00:53:16,599 --> 00:53:18,639
it the manual quickly deals? It lower than that.

1095
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: The Emmanuel quickly deal to have me worried for sure?

1096
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,519
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the one thing working in his

1097
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:32,679
favor right now is if you trade for him, you're

1098
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,519
getting his matching rights. So maybe you just don't have

1099
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:38,639
to worry about this because no matter what, you have

1100
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,519
the potential to keep him. And like the market tends

1101
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:46,280
to work against restricted free agents. Now, maybe someone, maybe

1102
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,639
some team would like go into next summer saying we

1103
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:50,400
are going to save all of our cap space. We're

1104
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,039
not going to make a run it Aaron Gordon or whoever,

1105
00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:54,880
because we want to just throw a giant offer shade

1106
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,239
at Kaminga. But like, maybe you can just wait out

1107
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,559
the market and you find yourself. But he finds himself

1108
00:54:02,599 --> 00:54:05,159
in a similar situation too, is a cocoro where like

1109
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,280
cap spaces dried up, but he has no suitors and

1110
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,400
now you're gonna get him back on far less than

1111
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,960
what you expected. But yeah, I'd say anything about thirty

1112
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,760
million a year, I would start to get nervous and

1113
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,760
probably lean more towards Austin Reeves. And that's really just again,

1114
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,320
it's because Minga is like still such a mystery box

1115
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:25,400
that the high.

1116
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:26,519
Speaker 2: End outcomes are.

1117
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,199
Speaker 3: You said, multi time All Star wouldn't totally shock me,

1118
00:54:31,039 --> 00:54:32,920
Like I would be pretty shocked if Boston Reeves a

1119
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,000
multi time All Star at any point in his career.

1120
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:40,039
But can you build around Kaminga as one of your

1121
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:43,519
two or three best players under this new CVA, which

1122
00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:47,000
is what that contract would necessitate that I have more

1123
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:47,679
concerned about.

1124
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm up again, right, are you right? Are you ready

1125
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:58,159
to buckle up? Yes, LaMelo ball or Trey Young? I

1126
00:54:58,199 --> 00:54:59,960
bet you can guess which one I would pick.

1127
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: But I would guess you would say LaMelo.

1128
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:03,159
Speaker 1: Correct.

1129
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 3: I would lean toward LaMelo as well, But it's it's tricky.

1130
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,159
Speaker 1: Do we want to end the analysis there?

1131
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:15,679
Speaker 2: That's it?

1132
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,679
Speaker 3: No? I mean LaMelo with the ankle injuries obviously, and

1133
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,039
you know whatever he does off the court with his

1134
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,679
maybe does he know speed limits exist?

1135
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:31,559
Speaker 2: That is a real concern. But Tray, I mean, it

1136
00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:35,519
sounds like the Hawks at least gauge the market for

1137
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:38,639
him and there wasn't much of one. And whether that's

1138
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:39,360
the contract.

1139
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: His defense seems like he's at least rubbed some teammates

1140
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,960
the wrong way over the years.

1141
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: He's gotten to a point for me, and I actually

1142
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,239
tend to be I think he's underrated. And how like,

1143
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,079
if I was a team, if the Lakers had the

1144
00:55:53,079 --> 00:55:55,119
opportunity to just throw all the picks to get Trey Young,

1145
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,599
I'm not saying they did, I would have done it.

1146
00:55:57,639 --> 00:55:59,920
So I want to make that clear. But defense to me,

1147
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,199
if you, I think you laid out his top three concerns,

1148
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,039
is the ball dominance, or lack of flexibility we've seen

1149
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:08,960
so far on offense, the rubbing teammates the wrong way,

1150
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,960
whatever goes on behind the scenes, and then the defense.

1151
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,440
That's the order of concern that I had, Like where

1152
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,760
defense is just like he's tried for the past year

1153
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,360
and a half and no, he's never gonna be good.

1154
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:20,039
But it's like now that's like the third biggest concern

1155
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:20,840
on my listed things.

1156
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly where LaMelo like we haven't seen

1157
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,000
him contribute to a winning basketball team yet, but that

1158
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:32,599
is that his fault or that just he landed on

1159
00:56:32,599 --> 00:56:35,119
the Hornets and the Hornets where basketball goes to die,

1160
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:38,639
and like maybe we'll see it this year with I mean,

1161
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,639
Brandon Miller came on really strong, especially towards the end

1162
00:56:41,679 --> 00:56:44,559
of last year. So now he has like a legitimate

1163
00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:48,119
co star. Maybe Mark Williams stays healthy this year. Like

1164
00:56:48,159 --> 00:56:50,239
I think there'll be more teams willing to.

1165
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,079
Speaker 2: Gamble on LaMelo than.

1166
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:59,559
Speaker 3: Yeah Tree, Young, by all accounts, was available this summer

1167
00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:02,239
and there was not much interest, which would suggest that

1168
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,280
he did not have a ton of trade value, or

1169
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,280
that Atlanta was just asking for the moon and no

1170
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,480
team was willing to do it, But I think Charlotte

1171
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:11,519
could rightfully ask for the moon for LaMelo, and I

1172
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:13,760
would imagine they would actually be able to get it.

1173
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,719
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you. And also, he's just if

1174
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,320
he's healthy, he's easier to fit alongside other players. I

1175
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,440
forget about the defense, forget about the bed. It's just

1176
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,840
his game is just a little bit more scalable. If

1177
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,199
you don't like yeah, if you want trade to just

1178
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:30,719
be r all everything, his game is actually scalable. But

1179
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:32,679
if you want to try some different types of roles

1180
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:36,119
and different types of offenses, LaMelo just makes way more sense.

1181
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,280
And obviously he's making less too and under contract for longer,

1182
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,480
so there's that's going to appeal to some people. But

1183
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,239
as of right now, Trey Young is substantially the better player.

1184
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:48,400
He's been more available, Like we've seen the theory of

1185
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,159
him on offense on a team that made it to

1186
00:57:50,679 --> 00:57:53,360
the conference finals one year. LaMelo has not had that

1187
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,760
talent around him, of course, so I feel like Trey

1188
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,840
Young gets a short shrift in a vacuum. But it's

1189
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,400
just not even I wouldn't pick him here either, so

1190
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,079
maybe I'm part of giving him the short shrift.

1191
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: There you go, you're up. I'm up, all right. Oh okay,

1192
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:16,199
let's see this one.

1193
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 3: Desmond Bain or Damian Lillard.

1194
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: Oh man, I thought this was gonna be one that

1195
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,239
we ended up skipping. I'm not gonna lie. So I

1196
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:29,800
think it's Desmond Bain just because of the age, the

1197
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,840
defensive concerns. Damian Lollward will shoot better on catch and

1198
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,880
shoot threes next year. He was at like thirty three

1199
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,400
percent or under thirty three percent this past season. But

1200
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,239
Bain is like, if you go and look at how

1201
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,800
he's developed as a self starter on the offensive end, No,

1202
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,039
it's not Damian Lillard to ask, but he can generate

1203
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:52,039
his own offense, do it semi efficiently, and he's gonna

1204
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:54,760
give you more defensively. And he's also still has that

1205
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,639
plug and play element where if you're gonna have John

1206
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,599
Ran or you're gonna have another ball dominant superstar, Like, yeah,

1207
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:01,800
he'll play off of them. I do wish he was

1208
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,320
a little bit bigger, a little bit longer, but he's

1209
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,519
gonna give you way more on defense than Damian Lillard

1210
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,559
at this point. So you could still make the case

1211
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:12,960
that Damian Lillard in a single season is just more valuable.

1212
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,000
But part of evaluating trade stocks is looking at contracts

1213
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,119
and then trying to scale forward multiple years. And I

1214
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:22,559
think I pretty comfortably picked Desmond Baine in this arena.

1215
00:59:23,159 --> 00:59:26,599
Speaker 3: Yeah I would as well, but I wanted to do

1216
00:59:26,639 --> 00:59:27,960
it to make Bucks fans.

1217
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: Men another one, and I think this will be the

1218
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,079
last one. I had other stuff want to ask you about,

1219
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,719
and I wanted to go an hour on this. Kane

1220
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,639
Cunningham or Evan Mobley.

1221
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,199
Speaker 3: So both on the identical five year maxes, correct, so

1222
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:46,039
you could factor it.

1223
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: Are we looking at that they're either both poison pill

1224
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,079
or you're just moving them next summer?

1225
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 3: Right?

1226
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:58,519
Speaker 2: Man? This one really just might be team dependent.

1227
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,679
Speaker 3: I mean, if you need that guy who can run

1228
01:00:05,719 --> 01:00:08,960
your entire offense, like, if you don't have a point

1229
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:09,280
guard in.

1230
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 2: Place, you're taking kid obviously.

1231
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: If you need someone to be like the focal point

1232
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,000
of your offense, you're taking Kid. If you have the

1233
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:20,320
luxury of we have that guy in place, whoever it is,

1234
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,360
you're taking Mobile in a landslide.

1235
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,679
Speaker 1: It doesn't It kind of come down to then who

1236
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,079
fits in more situations than across the spectrum.

1237
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:34,519
Speaker 3: Like I would lean mobilely personally, but that might be

1238
01:00:34,519 --> 01:00:35,119
the wrong pick.

1239
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: I just value.

1240
01:00:38,119 --> 01:00:42,199
Speaker 3: What he brings defensively. I think he is showing signs

1241
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:46,480
of growth offensively as well, whereas Kaide, I'm not convinced

1242
01:00:46,519 --> 01:00:49,400
he's ever gonna be an elite, elite defender. I think

1243
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,000
he you know, he's got the size that he doesn't have.

1244
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 2: To be terrible and then of the floor. We're not

1245
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:55,639
talking Tray.

1246
01:00:55,519 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: Young here, but his value is primary primarily on offense,

1247
01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:06,599
whereas Mobili, I think can be that was the only

1248
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:09,239
reason he can't be above average on offense one day,

1249
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,559
and we've already seen him with the ceiling of like

1250
01:01:13,119 --> 01:01:16,000
a legitimate challenger for Defensive Player of the Year.

1251
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, that I.

1252
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,119
Speaker 3: Would lean that way, although I could very much understand

1253
01:01:22,239 --> 01:01:25,519
if people preferred Kate cunning him. It really this one,

1254
01:01:25,559 --> 01:01:27,559
I think more than a lot of the ones we've discussed.

1255
01:01:27,639 --> 01:01:31,320
It's like just depends on the context of whatever team

1256
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:32,199
they're being traded to.

1257
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,199
Speaker 1: I think Kate is this safer pick, but that Mobile

1258
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,880
is going to offer more of a pay like a

1259
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,360
payoff if he hits his highest end outcome is how

1260
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,559
I would frame it, And I'd probably still just lean

1261
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:46,800
Mobili because I would operate under the assumption that whichever

1262
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,360
team is trading for him probably just views him as

1263
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,760
their loan big will have him in a better or

1264
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,559
at the very least, like he's not going to be

1265
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:55,039
the third or third option of your offense. They're gonna

1266
01:01:55,039 --> 01:01:57,000
plan on using him as a number two or something.

1267
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,079
But I think the bigger thing is the spacing. And look,

1268
01:01:59,519 --> 01:02:01,840
it didn't trade any to the playoffs, but he hit

1269
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,239
above and it was only like one point eight attempts

1270
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:05,719
per game or whatever it was when he came back

1271
01:02:05,719 --> 01:02:08,079
from that injury, he was hitting above the break threes

1272
01:02:08,159 --> 01:02:10,519
like those were going in, We're taking them there, And like,

1273
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:12,920
if that that is even the part of his game now,

1274
01:02:13,159 --> 01:02:16,599
given everything else he can do offensively, it's I would

1275
01:02:16,639 --> 01:02:19,000
say it's him And it probably actually shouldn't be that

1276
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:22,559
close at this moment. If you just believe in the oh,

1277
01:02:22,599 --> 01:02:25,840
he's gonna hit stand still above the break threes, Like,

1278
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,280
if you could just guarantee that, that probably makes this

1279
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:30,440
decision way easier.

1280
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:33,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would completely agree.

1281
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: Is there any other pairing here that you see that

1282
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,079
you would like to get to that was on this

1283
01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:41,960
list or did you want to move on to the

1284
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,519
just couple of other questions I have for you.

1285
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:46,079
Speaker 2: We can move on.

1286
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:49,239
Speaker 3: All I do want to shout out the Walker Kestler

1287
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,840
or Mitchell Robinson that you it was the last one.

1288
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,360
You plowed it and I just love it because it

1289
01:02:55,639 --> 01:02:59,199
must kill you inside to even type those two names together.

1290
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: What's the answer?

1291
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: I have no idea because apparently Utah hates Walker? That's

1292
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:06,559
what did he use?

1293
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: He might?

1294
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's gotta be a behind him.

1295
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,519
Speaker 1: Did he kick a puppy?

1296
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:15,719
Speaker 3: Just like there is no there's no logical explanation which

1297
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,920
tells me something bad happened behind the scenes, or they

1298
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,920
like they see something in practice, or like maybe he

1299
01:03:22,719 --> 01:03:25,440
maybe he got a little too big headed after the

1300
01:03:25,519 --> 01:03:30,719
rookie year and needed some humbling. But like I I,

1301
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,000
you know, as soon as he popped up in trade members,

1302
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,000
I feel like the reaction was from everyone was just

1303
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:37,880
like why what.

1304
01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:43,639
Speaker 1: Is the answer? Just Robinson though, because he's making more

1305
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:46,800
money and it's not astronomical money. With Walker Kessler, it's

1306
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:50,519
if you're Utah on you're trading him. It's it all

1307
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:52,920
comes down to like first round picks or other players

1308
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:53,880
on their rookie scales.

1309
01:03:54,239 --> 01:03:56,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, or you have to like package him with Jordan

1310
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,320
Clarkson or John Collins just to get to the money too. Yeah. Yeah,

1311
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,119
that's a good point. I mean, like I think teams

1312
01:04:04,159 --> 01:04:07,199
would rather gamble on Walker Kessler at this point, but

1313
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:09,239
maybe not like maybe I guess you know what you're

1314
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,559
getting to Mitchell Robinson, whereas Kessler is like, yeah, this

1315
01:04:12,719 --> 01:04:15,800
amazing rookie season and then whatever the hell happened last year,

1316
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,079
And I would imagine going from that in favor to

1317
01:04:19,199 --> 01:04:22,199
that out of favor that quickly a lot of teams

1318
01:04:22,239 --> 01:04:28,039
would be like, this is weird, So what what happened?

1319
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:30,639
Speaker 2: And why are we giving up this much to get him?

1320
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good point. That's probably the

1321
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:35,880
right answer. That's a real this is like a real

1322
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:36,679
sickoh one.

1323
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know.

1324
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,079
Speaker 3: I like that, like all of the you know, wrie

1325
01:04:41,159 --> 01:04:46,199
versus Ayah Williamson, Sure, Walker Kessler, Mitchell Robinson's like, all right,

1326
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:48,280
this is you watched too much NBA.

1327
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: You gotta take a break.

1328
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:53,239
Speaker 1: By friends, mister Tapoak, thank you forgiving me so much

1329
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,440
of your time for one last time for a while.

1330
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:57,840
It was a blast. As always, are you able to

1331
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,800
tell our listeners though? As usual can find you in

1332
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,679
all the great work that you continue to push out.

1333
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 2: Yes, although I don't know how much work I'm going

1334
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,039
to be pushing out for the next few weeks. Uh.

1335
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:13,760
You can find me on Twitter at b T O

1336
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,440
P O R e K. I've been very dormant there

1337
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,280
and very much we might stay dormant, so I can't

1338
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,239
promise that I'm going to be pushing a ton of

1339
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,320
articles there, but follow me at Forbes, at Liberty Bollers

1340
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:27,320
the crew there. It does great work, especially if you

1341
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,159
care about the Sixers or hate the Sixers, which apparently

1342
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:33,480
seems to be most of the NBA based on then

1343
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:36,039
the Team USA this summer. So if you want to

1344
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:38,559
just jump in the comments section and call Joel and

1345
01:05:38,679 --> 01:05:42,400
be at a communist or whatever the hell is going

1346
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:43,360
on these days?

1347
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: That was That was Gilbertinus in the comment sections, which it.

1348
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 3: Might be it might oh yeah, oh my god, don't

1349
01:05:50,039 --> 01:05:51,239
get me started on uncle.

1350
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:52,639
Speaker 1: No, we don't even need to dignify.

1351
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:53,079
Speaker 3: That's one of it.

1352
01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:55,079
Speaker 1: I like to dunk on people sometimes, but that was

1353
01:05:55,079 --> 01:05:56,840
one like, now, we don't need to give airtime to

1354
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,320
what he actually said because disgusting.

1355
01:05:59,679 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess Royce White needed company and they just

1356
01:06:03,039 --> 01:06:05,679
you've gone so far off the rail, like, how did

1357
01:06:05,719 --> 01:06:09,239
we get from point A to point being? So congratulations

1358
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,519
gil you're making a name for yourself.

1359
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,559
Speaker 1: Gilbert Arene ass am.

1360
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:19,119
Speaker 2: I right, well, Don, well done, Thank you.

1361
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: So much, Brian, this was great. I know you'll be

1362
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:22,480
back on again in the future, but we all here

1363
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:24,400
with you the best of luck. Did you welcome your

1364
01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:27,920
second child and with your continued coverage you remain the best. Sir,

1365
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,239
Thank you so much for all your time, as always, of.

1366
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 2: Course any time. Den