Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am joined by one
of the most certifiably fantabulous sickos in the business, and
it is his sendoff from the podcasting world. I think
for quite some time. He is Brian to Porek. He
is a multi senior multi platform editor for Bleacher Report.
He covers the NBA for Forbes and for Liberty Ballers,
and he was until recently the co host of the
NBA podcast. You should still go subscribe over there because
moret is good people, And look, July is not over yet,
so he might appear on one more episode there of
pre recorded audio that he has. But it is mister
Brian to Poorrek. You know him well. He's been so
gracious enough to come on a bunch over the past
few months. We are back to talk about which NBA
players have more trade value. It's like typical, Oh, we're
pretty much in August people type of content. Mister dapoork,
how are you doing? Are you gonna like, is there
any chance that you'll get misty eyed by the end
of this episode because you're not gonna be podcasting for
a couple minutes.
Speaker 2: I think there is a real fans. Yeah, I broke out.
Speaker 3: So we had our house staging today because we are
getting ready to move in a couple months, so we
had to hide every possession in our entire house either
in a closet or our utilety room. So as I
was frantically unpacking today, I was like, oh, I guess
I do need my microphone one more time.
Speaker 2: So I could not have asked for a better send
off in this.
Speaker 3: Thank you as always for having me very much looking
forward to this, and then yeah, I'm going radio silent
for at least a month or two.
Speaker 1: You have a good reason. Though you announced the birth
of your second child. We are all very excited for you.
We're also already lamenting collectively the lack of sleep that
you're going to have over the next few months.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yep, at least this time we know we as you
said number two, so we are well your eye as
to what to expect with the newborn. I hear the
toddler tends to be the trickier one.
Speaker 1: Well, because they're mobile, right, Well.
Speaker 3: They're just you know, they're he's been used to being
the only child for a three plus years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they they're like.
Speaker 3: We are very aware of what's coming in the next
few weeks, and he has no idea beyond you know,
we've been reading in books and talking to him a
bunch about it. We brought out all the baby stuff today.
But yeah, I think it's still going to be a
pretty big shock to the system.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a situation where in Houston
they were like trying to put other stars around James
Harden at one point and he just couldn't. But here's
hoping that your son is better adjusting to another ball
dominant co star in your family.
Speaker 2: How dare you compare him to James hard how dare you?
Speaker 1: Hey, you're gonna you're probably raising him as a Sixers fan.
I didn't compare him. I said, he's hoping he's better then.
Speaker 3: Yes, well he does have the emotional maturity of James
Tarrten right now.
Speaker 2: Well, so.
Speaker 1: For anyone at home, the way this is gonna work is,
I have a list of players and we're gonna just
basically like exchange them. We'll pick them out of the
list which player has more trade value Right now, as
of July thirtieth, we're recording this. We will take in
whatever factors Brian and I want as the other exchanges
them should be. I'm hoping I came up with interesting
enough pairings to where it's close enough and you're not like,
oh this is this is super easy. I'm sure there'll
be some of those. But if you are ready, though, Brian,
I will get us started. Who's more trade value, Darius
Garland or Jamal Murray?
Speaker 3: Ooh ooh interesting? All right, yeah, this is time. I mean, so,
Jamal Murray's got one year left on his contract, probably
gonna get a full max. I mean, reportedly was had
already agreed to an excession.
Speaker 2: That he is.
Speaker 1: Do you think that was sort of oh, you want
to go play for Team Canada, like you go not
injure yourself and then.
Speaker 3: Very well might have been. So I'm assuming he's going
to get extended the summer. If he doesn't, he's going
to get the full max next year. And I think
that bakes into the trade value. I would think because
he's won the championship already, he's proved that he can
be the number two guy on a championship team, he
probably has more, although I mean, I guess it's if
you are convinced that you can resign him. If the
Nuggets decided they were going to trade Jamal Murray and
you thought he was a real flight risk, like it
is he a possible rental, then Garland would have more.
But if it was you're you're going to trade for
Jamal Murray and you're gonna give him a four year
max extension and he's going to sign it, then I
think teams would rather have Jamal Murray in a vacuum.
So I lean that, But I'm curious if I'm totally
off base or what you think.
Speaker 1: They're So if I'm just gonna assume that Jamal Murray's
gonna sign his next contract with whoever he's traded to,
I'm still probably taking Darius Garland by a hair because
and part of this might just be I think he
has more offensive upside as a main guy, whereas we
are in year whatever of Jamal Murray and Denver and
it's these. Part of it might be the way Michael
Malone plays them. I think when you look at it,
more and more of Murray's minutes, a larger share of
percentage wise will come next to Nikole Jokic. So that
might be a preference or is it a necessity because
they don't trust him to run bench units. We've seen
I know it was the East, but we saw Darius
Garland pre the Cavs being loaded make an All Star team,
and he's had trouble adjusting to a smaller role, which
in last season anyway, he was getting hit in the
face like ten times per thirty six minutes or whatever.
It was, Like, I just would hold that hope that
I think he would be a little bit more shifty
as the alpha creator on the offensive end. And I
say that though Jamal Murray's hit incredibly big shots, like
clutch shots in the playoffs, in the finals, he's won
a championship, he's also like it's not all the time,
but he has a gear defensively that Darius Garland does not.
So it's close. I say it's by a hair. But
if we assume Murray's gonna have sign his next contract,
I'd probably prefer to have Darius Garland on the fun
max then Jamal Murray on the thirty max deal.
Speaker 3: That is a baracritique. And yeah, I mean the injury,
there's certainly a concern there. I think for me Garland,
it's wrong to say he's like backslid because he just
his numbers of course went down when they got Donovan Mitchell,
and we've seen what he's able to do without Mitchell,
Like I understood those you know, the words that got
leaked where Mitchell signs the extension, he's going to request
a trade, Like I would like to see Garland on
his own team, you know, like if the Spurs traded
for him this offseason, I thought that was a perfect
landing spot for him. And I think had he gone
there played with Wemby, this is probably Darius Garland by
a good degree a year from now. But without seeing that,
it is hard to remember of like, oh, there is
the Darius Garland who you know has this like all Star,
if not all NBA upside and it's like, oh, okay,
why you know, I know, Jamal Murray has also never
been an All Star.
Speaker 1: But again we've the West is the West, and honestly,
if Jamal Murray never gets injured, maybe this isn't even
a debate.
Speaker 3: Potentially, yeah, I mean he's you know, playoff maybe that's it,
Darius Garland over regular season Jamal Murray and then playoff
Jamal over Darius Garland.
Speaker 1: I mean, but he was banged up. Of course, like playoff,
Jamal can be all over the place too, So I
would just take Garland by a hair. But it's more
about me betting on what Garland hasn't done or what
I think he could do, Because if you're going by
track record, I think it has to be Jamal Murray.
Who would you like? What is the one you want
to throw at me?
Speaker 3: This one just seems Taylor made for you. So I
have to do it. And I feel like you're gonna
to pay me back. So brandon Ingram or Julius Randall so.
Speaker 1: Man. So Julius Randall's on a contract that he presumably
would extend off of because he has that like twenty
nine million dollar player option, whatever it is brandon Ingram
wants that. I think we haven't heard anything about what
Julius Randall wants. I'm sure he wants the max, but
like the money that's been thrown around for brandon Ingram
is no like he wants the the four years, two
hundred plus million dollar extension. And not only does New
Orleans not want to give it to him, but the
reporting from Mark Stein has been that no team wants
to give it to him. And that's kind of hampered
his value. I I'm gonna go brandon Ingram, but there's like,
Julius Randall's a two time All NBA player, and I
thought he proved before he got injured last year that
he could do more of the accessory work than it
didn't have to just be all Julius Randall everything, and
he would look out of place in this complimentary capacity.
With that said, I think Julius Randall to me is
a one position player. He can be a center on offense,
but like you can't use him as the center like
you would have Maybe on the Celtics. You could use
him as the center on defense, but like because they
have so many good perimeter guys or maybe in Houston
or something, but brandon Ingram you could at least move
around positionally more. But I just when it comes to
brandon ingramor gives me pause, is that even when the
Pelicans were at their peak last year and it was
all Zion everything and they were working together, they still
led such separate existences. It wasn't like, oh, look at
that Julius Randall brandon Ingram two man game. Oh excuse me,
Zion Williamson brandon Ingram two man game, and like Julius
Randall has shown he can do the two man stuff
with another fellow star. I I'm just it's Ingram, right,
like Ingram is the answer?
Speaker 3: Or is it?
Speaker 1: Oh, Julius Randall's gonna take less than the max or
maybe picks up his player options. So does he have
more of a market? I just if you go through
teams off the cuff, it's hard to find trade suitors
rather one of these guys. But I just ultimately think
there'd be more suitors for brandon Ingram, and that's why
to me, I would default him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a trick question because the answer was
neither neither of them have anything you would.
Speaker 1: All, No, you don't think they have any trade.
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I think both of
them would.
Speaker 3: I don't think either of them have the trade value
that you would associate with the player of their talent,
which is the reflection of they're both heading into a
presumptive contractor Ingram definitely, Randall is presumably going to turn
down the player option. To your point, we don't know
that Randall is like gunning for the four year max,
and frankly, after seeing why Jalen Brunson just did. I
don't know how if you're Julius Randall, if you want
to stay in New York, you cannot go to that
front office with a great phase and say like, yeah,
I mean, like, our best player just took you know,
one hundred million less than he was eligible to receive,
but I'm going to hold out for that full max.
Speaker 1: Right he could say, well, look what you gave og
Anobi and Brogs whatever they might just say, we gave
it to og Ananobi because there were teams that would
have given him the four year max. So you go
out on the open market next summer and find the
team that's gonna give you the four year max, and
we'll give you the same deal.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, I think to your point, Randall, I mean,
I guess Ingram this past playoffs was horrific, but he
was just miscast in number one role.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's the same thing with Randall.
Speaker 3: Maybe he was just so bad in the playoffs that
one year because he was in the number one role.
Speaker 2: And now you know, if we saw him.
Speaker 3: He was hurt last year obviously, but like maybe on
this year's next team, if he stays with the Knicks,
and he's behind Brunson for sure, and then in some
amorphus like two through four, I don't know who's the
number two option on a given night between him, Ojan
Andobi and Mikhale Bridges, Like maybe that will make him better,
but I do I do have some concern that he
is a quote unquote eighty two game player rather than
a sixteen game player. And whereas Ingram, he like conceptually
he should be the right answer.
Speaker 1: Well, he had the what was that that series against
the Suns without Zion a couple of years ago? Like
he was a monster in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I mean that's the thing we've seen
him take. You know, the big hesitation with him is
just he takes so many or did not take enough threes,
takes too many mid range shots, and we've seen him
in in New Orleans like he was taking six threes
a game a couple of years ago. Like there's no
reason that he couldn't get back to that. So is
it just like a coaching thing, Like what what's the
breakdown here that's holding Brandon Ingram back from his ceiling?
It feels like Randall is closer to his current ceiling
than Ingram is Ingram still has some room to grow,
and I think that might give him a little more
trade value. But given the contract, like if he sticks to.
Speaker 2: I want a four year max.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't blame any team that wanting trade
for him, because no team should want to give him
before your matching.
Speaker 2: No team should maxx either one of these players.
Speaker 1: Okay, it is my turn.
Speaker 3: I'm pleasantly surprised. I thought there was a really I
thought there was a real if I trolled you with Randall,
I thought there was a queer one you were firing
back with. So thank you for sparing me, at least
for now.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I was curious as to what you thought
or who I was. Who you thought I was gonna
throw out there? So James Harden or Karl Anthony Towns, this.
Speaker 2: Is the patroll?
Speaker 1: Well done, that's what I thought. This is the one
I thought you were talking about. I'm trying to look
at them, like, what does Brian not want to talk about?
Let me do that one.
Speaker 2: Next number four. I won't say the names, but number.
Speaker 1: Four with oh yeah, duh, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's what I think.
Speaker 3: It's Karl Anthony Towns by a pretty significant margin.
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm wrong here, but I.
Speaker 3: Know there's the concern of, like, do you want to
pay this guy thirty five percent backs under the new CBA.
But James Harden is what thirty five are about to
turn thirty five on it to year deal. Has torched
his way out of three teams now in the last
five years. Like, I would rather just pay or have
the guy who he might have some concerns.
Speaker 2: Can he be a number one optional championship team? No?
Speaker 3: Can Jake Carden be the number one option championship team
at the stage of his career. No, But Karl Anthony Towns,
like hasn't mopd his way out of multiple teams, and
you know, proved this past season that he could be
integral on a team that went very far in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: So while playing I think you would argue not his
best position. He can play that position he's playing, but
it's certainly not his best position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think there are team constructs where he
would make a ton of sense where that team. You know,
like he is not a superb rim protector, So that's
the concern with him. Can you build an elite defense
of Karl Anthony Towns as your center?
Speaker 2: Probably not.
Speaker 3: But there are also teams like Indiana this year where
maybe you should double down on offense if you have
Carl Anthony Towns as your center and you have a
point guard akin to Tyree's Taliban, like plug Karl Anthony
Towns in Atlanta. I know that's been a popular one
with Tree Young or a plug came in with Charlotte Flamelo
ball and just say screw it, We're not going to
defend anyone first to one hundred and forty wins.
Speaker 2: Like I think there's a merit to that.
Speaker 3: I think I would pretty sizably rather have Towns at
this point, even even with the concerns about his contract,
just because like Harden's one plus one, I.
Speaker 1: Mean on a tidy number. With every year he's going
and not having a market and so like it's easier
to keep him on a repressed number. It seems like
I still would pick Towns too. The four years two
hundred and twenty point fours a lot for someone who
feels like he's probably best suited as the third best
player on a contending team, because I mean he was
what would he what was he the third most valuable
player on Minnesota this year behind Rudy and Edward. So,
but here's what I would ask you, what's more likely
that James Harden is able to fully adapt to whatever
team he's on to either have a lesser role to
allow a younger or better and more more ball dominant
star to thrive and he's gonna thrive off of them,
or Karl Anthony Towns is on a team where he's
the center and they have an above average defense. I
think it's the latter still, because you look at some
of the teams, I feel like we're seeing it. Maybe not,
I don't know if it's always on purpose, but doesn't
it feel like we're seeing it more a little bit
where teams might be building their defense from the outside
in rather than the inside it. Like look at Houston
would be an example, even a little bit. Boston has
christophs Porzingis and Al Horford, but like they've just even
the Knicks might be a good example. I know Mitchell
Robinson and Hartenstein, but if you're about playing Randall at
center or cat at center, they probably have enough perimeter
defensive talent When you look at hart and Og and
McHale and even Deuce McBride right now to say like
we could maybe have a kind of liability at the
five and still have a good defense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as long as Towns doesn't fall out in twelve minutes,
which is always the risk for him. But yeah, I
think there are more teams where Towns would make sense
where like, Harden was a free agent last summer and
no one either wanted him or was willing to make
whatever sacrifices they needed to get him. But I think
if Karl Anthony Towns became a free agent, teams would
be lining up out the.
Speaker 2: Door to go get him.
Speaker 3: So I know, again, I know the contract, Like Harden
without question is on a better contract than Karl Anthony
Town's right now. But I think given their age, given
what's happened over the last couple of years with Harden,
I think teams would be very very nervous about trading
for him. It's like, if you're not going to be
in LA or you're not going to an immediate championship contender,
and even if you are, like I just don't know
if you're winning a championship at this point with James
Harden playing a.
Speaker 1: Major role in your team, who do you have for me.
Speaker 2: On this one?
Speaker 3: It's just tailor made for you. Jayden McDaniels or Devin.
Speaker 1: Vessell, Jade McDaniels or Devin Vessell. So I'm gonna go
with Devin Vassell. The contract's a little more expensive. He
is not. He's one of those players. I'm trying to
give a good analog. It's not as bad as this,
but it's like when some people think that DeAndre Hunter
is like a good defender because it just looks like
he should be. Devin Missell kind of has the movement
of just he should be a better defender than he is,
but he's not. And Jade McDaniels is all defense caliber.
We know this, But I also think Devin Vessell has
an on ball offensive package that a lot of people
just don't fully appreciate. Like he can get to his
pull ups, he can come around ball screens, he can
run a little bit of the offense, not a ton
of it. I'd probably like to see even more of,
Like what does the wemb Devin Vesell two man game
look like with better spacing around them in higher volume
of those opportunities. I think it's him because I value
the offensive malleability over mcdion daniels, who had a good playoffs,
but like his three point shot fell off a cliff,
and I don't I guess this could be a lack
of imagination on my part because it's not set up
for him to one have the space in the half
court to explore what he does on the ball a
ton but also just inside their pecking order, there are
people that naturally usurp him. I think I'm going with
Devin Vessel, where would you land here?
Speaker 2: I would go with the Cell too.
Speaker 3: It's close, but I think we've seen teams and not
the Jade McDaniels is this type of player because he
approved in the Super Run of the Playoffs that like
his defense is so elite and that if you leave
him open, he can knock.
Speaker 2: Down open shots.
Speaker 3: It's not like you leave him open, then he's gonna shoot,
you know, twenty percent from deep and that's just how
you beat him. But we we just have seen teams
go with that strategy in the playoffs. It's just like, Okay,
this guy is just not not with McDaniel specifically, but
I'm thinking like a Mattise Thible or a Tony Allen
back in the day where like we are not afraid
of you, and we're gonna send next for attention elsewhere.
Speaker 2: So if McDaniels can level up offensively this.
Speaker 3: Year, I think he probably overtakes with sell But because
the cell is so much more versatile offensively, I think
he'll have potentially more value in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: Down the road.
Speaker 3: And I guess that they're pretty similar age wise, right,
if not the same age?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are so Devin visell Is I think he's
twenty four, if I'm not mistaken. Did I get that wrong?
He is twenty three? And then Jade McDaniels I think, yeah,
he should be twenty three. Two, I'm not mistaken. Yeah,
they're both both born in two thousand, so millennial millennium babies.
Excuse me. I think that's gonna be a controversial one.
If there's comments or people are in discord, let us
know if it's just controversial to take Devin to sell
it over Jade McDaniels as a trade value asset. And
by the way, we should have laid this out the front.
I'm not predicting any of these players would be traded.
I'm just curious that that if you were going to
move them, who gets you more?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: It is my turn Zach Lavine or Ben Simmons, and
just as a framing in case some of the listeners
don't understand why, it's because of the contracts where zach
Lavine is three years, one hundred and forty plus whatever
it is. Ben Simmons is on an expiring deal, So
it's this you're trading for Ben Simmons because he's on
an expiring contract.
Speaker 3: Yes, you're trading for forty million dollars of caps based
next summer. Ah can I I don't understand how we've
gotten to this point with zach Lavine.
Speaker 2: And did you see the story on ESPN's day.
Speaker 3: I think it was by oh Manet I forget who
I saw it earlier. There is some quote from like
a bold secution if that was basically like, well, zach
Lavine has never won, and he always just tries to
play his way.
Speaker 2: So he can.
Speaker 3: Either try to listen to his coaches or if he
wants to force his way out, he can come in
and just keep doing the same thing he's always done.
So it's like there, I'm sure there's some stuff behind
the scenes like it maybe it's not just the injury
stuff with zach Levin that's causing so much concern about, Oh,
this guy's got three years, one hundred and forty million
left on his contract or whatever the.
Speaker 2: Actual number is. I just we've seen.
Speaker 3: Him be a good player much more recently than we've
seen Ben Simmons.
Speaker 2: Be a good player.
Speaker 3: And I know it's I know it's just the expiring
contract with him, but like I would much rather unless
you are fairly certain that we're gonna make good use
of this forty million dollars of cap space that Ben
Simmons is gonna open up. So if you're a team
that was already projecting to have cap space next summer,
and this is like your way of doing what Philly
just did this off season, Like we're gonna create sixty
five million dollars of cap space and we're gonna go
sign Jamal Marae next off season or something like that,
then cool.
Speaker 2: Ben Simmons is the right answer.
Speaker 3: But Zach Lavine, like I just can't help but feel
like the team that ends up trading for him is
going to not regret it, Like it's gonna they're gonna
look back on this and be like, why was this.
Speaker 2: Guy available for so cheap?
Speaker 3: Like if if the Lakers were to combine DeAngelo Russell
and whatever other salaries they needed to to get up
to zach Levine, and they don't even have to give
up one of their two first round picks. It feels
like an easy yes for them. So, you know, I
can understand why Simmons would have some appeal just from
the we can become a Calf Space behemoth next offseason.
But it's also worth remembering, you know, free agents typically
don't like star free agent. I mean, you know, it's
been Jalen Brunston and Paula George since twenty nineteen, basically
since twenty twenty, so like it. You know, you can
shoot for the moon and hope that you get a
Jamal Murray or someone a Brandon Ingram and Julius randal Evin,
but chances are you're either going to have to overpay
for them or it's just you're not going to get
that player. So I think the calf Space panacea is
not always then when it's made up to be. Whereas
zach Levian, I think has this still a pretty high.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you. I think Zack Lvine's
the clear answer. Actually, I just wanted to see where
you're at. And also I am wondering if people think
if teams will be like see what the Sixers just did,
which was a masterclass in cap management, and think oh,
we could do the same, And that brings back cap
space planning a little bit. But just the free agency
landscape the past half decade or whatever does not support
prioritizing getting this loading up on expiring money to have
all this space. And the other thing, too, is what
are the deals that are like so bad that teams, Oh,
we really just want to even if you're not gonna
have cap space, we just want to get off it
is it if Bradley Beal would wave his no trade
clause to go to Brooklyn at this point? And then
it's like, and if you were the bulls, I get,
would you trade zach Lavine there need to be more
money whatever, But like, would you just trade zach Lavine
for Ben Simmons' expiring contract if you could? I don't,
I honestly don't know. There's so the deals because the
CAP's going up, and also because we so rarely have
these super long, onerous the fact that we're talking about
Zack Lavine on a three year commitment is some albatross
is incredible when you think about it. So I think
that that makes it easy to select him, not just
because he has value on the court, but it's what
is the endgame? Like what is the contract that is
so bad? Aside from beals just because that no trade clause,
Like what is the like I don't even spot like
Zach Lavine's to me is not even just like if
I could sub that out for Ben Simmons and on
the Bulls in support of tanking, I guess sure. But
and also with Zack Lavine, we've seen him on an
inept iteration of the Timberwolves front office basically and then
going to the Bulls, which have just been a dumpster
fire logistically since he's been there, And so you could
say he's not a winner. He also hasn't played for
organizations that have ever fielded a team that should have won, right.
Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, he's not a winner. Kids.
Speaker 3: He's played on garbage his entire NBA career, except for
like the one half season where the Bulls had a
healthy line though.
Speaker 1: And look they were good though, yeah like that.
Speaker 3: I know they were the number one seeds for that
the first half of that season Like, I think it's
just I understand all of the concerns that go with Lavine,
But to your point about you know, Simmons and like
what if you follow the cap space plan? If anything,
I wonder if this offseason is going to force more
guys toward taking extensions and like, you know, more of
the like middle class, Like if uh, I mean, who's
upright contract this year? Say Jonathan kaminga even like does
he just take the extension because he's scared that the.
Speaker 1: Mark we had no unless anything happens with Isaaca Korral,
we didn't have any restricted offer sheets in free agency,
like even we had we got Paul Reed last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, thank you for that. Yeah, Like
I I think I don't know.
Speaker 3: If I were an agent, I'd be telling my clients
just take the extension because we we saw Carole Barton,
I mean freaking Tias Jones contract, Like, I know, it's
way too good to be signing I'm contract. So maybe
maybe this is just one year anomaly, but I'm gonna
guess a lot of guys are not going to chance that.
And then you know, if if the market corrects in
twenty twenty five, maybe we see more guys are showing
it next offseason.
Speaker 1: But man, yeah, speak if it was a blip, maybe
that would explain some of it. But like, look at
what happened with Caleb Martin, look at what happened with
Malie Beasley, Like he ended up on one year, six
million after every pretty good year. Milwaukee. It's Gary Trent
Junior and Tyres Jones are taking real risks like those
two specific they're really betting on the market, just bouncing
back and we'll see how that plays out for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, my certain, Uh, Okay, let's do Let's
do two players who don't suck, uh, Stephen Curry or
Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1: So they each they have similar So Kad was technically
extension of this year, which is just like he feels
like he's always extension eligible and request or requesting a trade,
Like it's like always one or the other with him.
So Kevin Durant has two years left on his contract
right including next season, so he has two years and
Steph is the same because he has that, Yeah, he
has two years left on his the own, including next season.
Steph's entering he's thirty six now, so like he's thirty
six and a half. Kevin Durrant's entering his age thirty
six season. I'm fresh off watching him just return to
Team USA and absolutely just destroy everything in sight. I
still think that it's Steph. I just in Phoenix last
year seeing how much he would struggle at points with
increased defensive attention. I almost feel like you need to
he's Kevin Durant. He's the fact that he's as good
as he is after suffering an Achilles injury is absolutely absurd.
But I almost feel like he's gonna need to be that, Like,
I feel like we're gonna see a reduced version of
Kevin Durant more than Steph. And maybe I'm wrong, because
Steph to work harder for his shots a lot of
the time than Kevin Durant. I am also factoring in
kind of the vibes hear. It feels like every team
that Kevin Durant is on the vibes ever since he
left Oklahoma City have just submarined. And with Steph, it's
never going to be like that. And I don't know
who's the bigger injury risk at this point, just because
they both have major injuries in their rear view also
the fact that Kevin Durant played so much last season
actually concerns me moving forward. Yeah, so I think it's Steph.
Who would you pick?
Speaker 3: I picked Steph as well. I mean the vibeses thing
was one of the first things that came to mind
for me, which might be unfair to KD because a
lot of that is not necessarily his fault, especially in Brooklyn.
I think I think he was probably the least to
blame for that thing going in South. But I mean, Steph,
there is just some unquantifiable joy to the way he
plays the game, and I think it's infectious and I
think it probably gives his teammates extra confidence that, like, well,
we have this guy on the court, so we you know,
even if we're down ten points in the fourth quarter,
he's gonna pull up from thirty five feet and he
could you know, he goes on one of these heaters
and all of a sudden, he can go on like
an eight to zero run in a minute, just by himself.
Whereas Katie, this is gonna sound harsh, and I don't
mean aggregators, but like we've seen Steph be the best
player on a championship team without question, we've seen it
at least twice, if not four times, maybe Kate, I
know KD got the finals MVP in both of the
years that they won it together, but like it was
always Steph's team, right, that was kind of the one
of the driving forces that led Kevin de or KD
the leap.
Speaker 2: So we still haven't seen KAD be the unquestioned.
Speaker 3: Best player on a championship team where we whereas we
have seen that with Steph, and I just have to
weigh at it.
Speaker 1: It's so it's if you didn't weigh that in, would
the answer still be Steph, though.
Speaker 3: It would be closer because like I mean in theory,
I mean really both of those guys are as plug
and play as you can get. Like there's no system,
there's no team that you could drop either of them
on where it's like nope, that guy doesn't fit. There
are a lot like talents, there are some teams where
it just would not make sense. James Harden, there are
some teams where he just would not make sense. That's
not the case with Steph or KD. And like KD
the archetype of however tall he is, I know he
refuses to admit he's seven foot so we'll say six
eleven guy who you know has whatever seven five seven
six wingspan, can shoot over everyone and one of the
best shooters in the game. That the best shooter of
the game, you know, KD. It's like you wish he
would fire more from deep than he does. He's a
great shooter, but yeah, like honestly, double the volume, like
take a deaf number of threes and you'd be even better.
Kat just also seems again this is like an unfair
perception of.
Speaker 2: Him, I think, but he.
Speaker 3: Doesn't seem to have that same sort of like takeover
gene or instinct that stuph does. Like Steph against Boston,
I'm thinking when they were down to one in Game four,
it was just like he he refused to let them
lose that game, whereas Katie I just don't see that
as often. It's like he's it's what Lebron used to
be killed for back in his early Cleveland day too,
where he's like too deferential, where he's like he needs
to be more.
Speaker 2: Selfish at times, and I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's I'm not trying to call that
a selfish basketball player, because he very much is not
but he also understands the gravity.
Speaker 2: Of moments I think a little bit more than KD.
And it's like.
Speaker 3: Willing to put the team on his back and just
say like, no, this is this is my team, and
we are not losing tonight, and I'm going to shoot
thirty five times and I'm gonna score seventy five points
and that's that way.
Speaker 2: I just haven't seen that as much.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that what you're using is the impotence impetus
to pick Steph if you factor out sort of the
intangibles part of the equation, whatever you want to call it,
and I think I would agree with you. But it's
also what concerns me about Steph too, because I would
trust him in more difficult situations at this point, but
because he has to work so hard to get his looks,
whether on or off the ball, I'm almost just like,
how is his body gonna hold up? And KD? Is
he's not this super especially we're gonna use him as
kind of like a big a lot of the times
on defense. He's gonna give you more value on that
end of the floor too, And yet I still go
Steph because I think that the ceiling on your team.
If these guys are your second, you're set your first
or second best players. I still think it's higher with
Steph Curry than it is with Kevin Durant. My turn,
Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard. Mister, I'm just picking all
former sixers.
Speaker 3: Great, Please don't have Tyre's back anywhere on this list
because I'm picking care.
Speaker 1: For anyone who This is so deep into the podcast
that it won't matter. I did pick players that I
could envision in some scenario like just becoming available for
the most part of like if the Spurs wanted to
get a superstar and decided, oh, we're gonna move Devin
Vessel or the Timberwolves are looking to cut costs or
need an offense. But I don't expect most of these
guys to ever become available. But like it was o
Tyre's Max, he's not going anywhere. He's not even trade
eligible at the moment, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is not on the foots Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1: So Butler has the player option he is this season,
and then a player option. Kawhi Leonard is starting his
three year extension UH this season, so that of course
factors in. But it's I don't know the injury of
it all with Kawhi man, right, I think I.
Speaker 3: Lean Jimmy just for that reason. It's like, you just
cannot trust Kawhi to be healthy, to stay healthy throughout
an eighty two game regular season, and then be healthy
at the start of the playoffs, and more importantly, be
healthy at the end of the playoffs. I know Jimmy
pat Riley roasted him at the exit interview this year
for his lack of availability during the regular season, So
if that forces him to play more and he gets hurt,
then that's a concern. But you know, we've seen him
since what twenty nineteen alone, two finals trips, and you know,
one game away, one shot away from a third on
a team that frankly probably had no business especially this
twenty twenty three he had zero business be going that far.
So I know there's the he wants an extension, He
wants it to year max. It sounds like other teams
were willing to give it to him if he did
force the trade out of Miami this offseason. So strictly
like the injury risk with Kawhi, I think has you
know he's on a below max it's only like ten
million dollars below the max he could have taken.
Speaker 2: So if Jimmy gets.
Speaker 3: Ten million dollars more like, yeah, I'm willing to just
bet the extra ten million on Jimmy over the next
three years because I at least think he has a
better chance of staying healthy. Unless maybe that's just Tim's
miles pirately catching up to him.
Speaker 2: After all these years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a because he's not exactly a billboard of
durability either, right, right, it's I think Kawai still is
the higher ceiling as a player that more substantial peak.
But how long is he gonna sustain it? And they've
now tried everything. It was okay, load manage him, and
he's not gonna be healthy to end the season, all right,
let's just have him play. Okay, he's not gonna be
healthy to end the season. And so it's just I
think it is Jimmy Butler, but it's the fact that
he has free agency coming up or the player option,
and like Kawhi is under contract, and you know, Kawhi
could be it would be like if you're a team
that already has your player in place, I do think
it might be more tempting to have Kawhi come in
than Jimmy Butler. Yeah, although a lot of people have it,
like wondered whether if Kawhi got traded, he would simply
retire because he doesn't want to let where he lives
right now, So you might have to bake that into
your calculus too.
Speaker 3: Right Like, there will be too if the Clippers when
the Clippers do decide to pivot, because it's pretty clear
that they're going to at some point in the next
few years, there will be teams that line up for Kawhi.
Speaker 2: They're going to take the risk to do it.
Speaker 3: I just think Butler would be the smarter gamble of
the two. So I mean, yeah, maybe, because again, it's
kind of similar to the Jamal Murray thing where I's like,
if you're trading for Jimmy Butler and you're not confident
in your ability to resign him, you would probably offer
more for Kawhi Leonard because he is under contract. But
if you are trading for Jimmy Butler, say I'm going
to offer you the two year max and he's willing
to take it, I would be willing to offer more
for Jimmy Butler. But because I'm just so worried that
you know, Yesawi, I agree with you. Kawhi has the
higher ceiling we've seen. Kawhi when he's healthy, is still
two way superstar in a way. You know. The shooting
is what differentiates him from Jimmy. I mean, Jimmy's also
a two way superstar, but Kawhi is a much better
three point shooter than Jimmy.
Speaker 1: But well, what about playoff Jimmy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I forgot all of a sudden, he becomes to three
point shooter. It just like playoff Josh Hard Apparently. Uh No,
I still I still lean Jimmy, assuming that you're able
to keep him past this year.
Speaker 1: Do you think Jimmy Butler can be an effective like
secondary option?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we saw it in Philly.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just not used to seeing it in Miami. Basically. Ever,
at this point that I've deleted that part from my brain. Yeah,
that's a huge part of being the secondary option is shooting.
It the off ball shooting element that I feel like
we're like the he can do the like the catch
and drive stuff for sure. So your turn again, all.
Speaker 3: Right, it's not what I feel like I'm taking crazy built,
so I'm just gonna ask this and I'm hoping it's easy.
Speaker 2: And I think it is Jeremy Grant or Kyle Kuzma.
Speaker 1: It's Kyle Kuzma. I don't think the gap is big
enough on defense between them. Actually there we've been at
this weird tug of war where it was okay, Kyle
Kuzma was underrated on defense, and I felt like he
was overrated, and now he's underrated on defense again. And
I do think Jeremy Grant is the better secondary offensive
option in terms of if you don't want this guy
to dribble and you just want him to shoot and
get out in transition, he's better suited for that. We
also kind of just have evidence that he doesn't necessarily
want to do that in super high volume. And just
the contracts, like Kyle Kuzma's deal is not only more
team friendly because of the actual dollar amount, but it's
on the scale and so you look at the way
the cap is projected to go up. He's already one
year deep into the four year, ninety million dollar contract
as of right now, sixteen point seven percent of the
salary cap. Next year, then that drops to fourteen and
then that drops to under twelve. And so Jeremy Grant's
deal is scaling up. And I think his deal if
he's still if he has another really good season, the
back end of those three years will not look nearly
as bad as I think a lot of people thought.
But I think the contract, even if I think Jeremy
Grant's the better player, I don't think the gap is
big enough to I would just rather the flexibility of
Kuzma's contract. And it's not just saving a team money.
It's just it's easier to match salary with him. It'll
be easier to remove him if you want to. So
I think it's him, But I this is and there
are other scenarios like this. I'm actually gonna give you
one as the next one where the other player is
clearly better, But like the contract or the injury history,
in some cases, it makes you, it might make you
gravitate towards the inferior player.
Speaker 3: Right, it's the contract for me, I think it's Kuzma
pretty clearly here. Like I I mean, I know the
Lakers have been sipping around Jeremy, and like Portland fans
think like they have to get both Lakers picks to
get him.
Speaker 2: I guess that's just that's a man.
Speaker 1: Look. I don't want to paint a fan base with
a broad brush, but Blazers fans this summer have been
on one. It feels like relative to what their players
are worth via trade, relative to any doubts you have
about their rebuilding direction because they have like a shit
ton of centers and there's this weird mix of veterans
and their training future picks to get Anny Avdia, who
I love. So they've done some like and it's I, yeah,
I don't. The Blazers are in an okay position. I
just there's more ambiguity in Portland than Blazer that a
lot than some Blazers fans I think are crediting. And
the other thing I'll say is, if you think these
players are worth all of these picks, your team would
have been better last season. Just like Toronto definitely held
on to their players too long. For the most part,
I think they decided they could have gotten a bunch
of og still, but they won another direction with the
package they accepted. They probably held on to Siakam for
too long. But people had a point when they said
everyone wants all these players in their starting lineup and
it's the Raptors are not even a play in team,
and so there's there is that element to it. And
in Portland's just more egregious because did you just watch.
I know there was injuries, but like even when they
were fully healthy, and part of that is all right,
we've had Scoot in. You're dealing with these younger perimeter
players and Shane Sharp and Scoop and the learning curves
are cheaper, and they were banged up last year. Their
rotation was all over the place. I recognize that, but
I'm not giving First of all, I'm not giving two
first round picks for Jeremy Grant's contract in a vacuum.
If they're I guess, if you're a contender and they're
able to be like, Okay, it's draft Day and I'm
giving you. I know it's a bottom five pick, and
then I'm also trading my next year pick. Sure, but
I'm not giving to post twenty twenty six first round
picks for Jeremy Grant. That's not happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that is.
Speaker 3: Those should be reserved for especially the Lakers, Like you
gotta be really sure that's gonna help you win now,
because like I don't think Jeremy Grant makes them substantially
better to the point where they're a legitimate championship contender.
If you're giving both of those picks to do so,
that's the type of player you need to get.
Speaker 1: It would be nice to see Lebron and a d
play next to a two way wing again though, so
that's true. Look, I would trade if it was Dalton
connect salary and the twenty twenty seven pick. Would you
still not do it? I'd probably do it. I'm not gone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to your point, I think like if you you
were able to quantify what one of those picks are,
it's like the mystery box element, especially for the Lakers.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, sure things could.
Speaker 3: Break right for the Lakers because of the Lakers, and
things always break right for them, but.
Speaker 2: They're the chance.
Speaker 3: I mean, like we say that, but then remember most
of the twenty tens for them, Like they were so
bad that they kept getting top three or four picks
every year, Like.
Speaker 1: That wasn't no, Dlo, Lonzo and Ingram were all number
two picks, weren't they?
Speaker 3: The Sixers had I think they if I remember correctly,
they traded Michael Carter Williams for a protected Lakers pick
that got less protected every year and it ended up
not conveying until like twenty eighteen because the Lakers sucks
so badly every year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they just kept jumping in the.
Speaker 3: Lottery, But like, you know, we've seen the Lakers have
some down years as well, and like, yes, there's a
chance that they just continue accumulating talent because they're the Lakers,
But there's also a chance they're so poorly run that
if you know, some star in his mid thirties doesn't
want to sign there because he wants to start his
entertainment career, Like when.
Speaker 2: Lebron retires, they're going to be left with like.
Speaker 3: Thirty three year old Anthony Davis and then what Like
there's a real chance there is significant downside to giving
up either of those picks. So yeah, and as a
total tangent from the trade value of Jeremy versus Kuzma,
But like frankly, I don't think either one of these
guys is getting more than one first round pick whenever
they do get traded. I think both of these teams
are going to hang on to these guys, probably longer
than they should, but I think Kuzma's probably getting moved.
I would imagine he's moving this year, sometime this year.
Speaker 1: There's no way both of these dudes are on the
same team at the trade deadline, one of them is
going to be on a different team.
Speaker 3: I hope, Oh my god, it'd be such way for
both of them if if they don't get moved.
Speaker 1: Okay, are you ready for this one?
Speaker 2: Boh boy?
Speaker 1: Yes, Larry market In or Zion Williamson and is this
this isn't I think some and it'll probably be Pelicans
fans and I'm not trying. It's just the injuries. Zion
was in the middle of the performance of his life
when he gets injured this year. That's literally what this is.
Is that lowry marketing. You can plug and play anywhere.
He doesn't have the injury history. Yes, Zion has the
higher peak, but there they're the injury concern and it's
not even oh, Zion's out of shape or is that?
Like everything was on point for this guy this year
and he still got injured and it just it sucks
full disclosure. I would still take Zion, but I think
it's probably more of a question than people might care
to admit or might care to contemplate, I should say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's fun So we're recording this in late July,
so before Laura Marketing is eligible tociety renegotiating extending his contract.
And what's funny is I think his trade value might
decline within the next week or two, like once he
renegotiates and extends. I mean it sounds like he will intentionally.
Speaker 2: I know there's like a.
Speaker 3: One day window, like he's eligible August sixth, and then
if he gets traded in August sixth, he can sign
the extension with his new team one day with the
trade deadline or whatever. So like there is a chance
that happens. But it sounds like he wants to intentionally
wait until August seventh so he will not be traded eligible.
Speaker 1: Which is what I would do. By the way, you
have family, You don't want to uproot your life. But
I would think, you know how you and I have
talked about it would be we want to see the
second Apron team inflate someone's deal to the exact amount
of just like someone else is making. It would just
be really funny if so, he signs the extension August sixth,
and like there's a report like two weeks later or
something like Larry market In purchases home in Bay Area
or something.
Speaker 3: It's the extension be the exact amount that Draymond Green
Rights are making combined. Yeah uh ah man, Yeah, so
I think right now, because he's on an eighty million
dollar contract, it's just so easy to match salary for him.
Where Like, once he's on, assuming he does get a
full max deal, I think once he gets the max deal,
I prefer Zion, But right now, at this very moment,
I prefer marketing because it's easier to match salary.
Speaker 1: Is it even close once he's on his max or
near max?
Speaker 3: I think it's still close. And like it wouldn't shock
me if both of them got traded and Laurie got
more because Danny Ainge is Danny Ainge and that's just
what he does. Whereas Zion, like, you know, we're reaching
the point with him where the talent is so immense,
But if he just keeps getting hurt over and over again,
like the trade value fallows with every single injury from
this point forward, Whereas like Laurie, you know, God forbid
he tears the acl or tears the Achilles with something like,
I don't think any team's gonna hold that against him
the same way they even if Zion just like strained
his hamstring again, like, I think that would be more
detrimental to his trade value than the tor intended would
be for Laurie's.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's your turn again.
Speaker 2: All right, hmm Okay, that's the phem Austin Reeves or
Jonathan Kaminga.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if I want to stay on brand,
because Warriors fans were mad at me for some things
that I've said about Jonathan Kaminga recently, I should say
Austin Reeves. I do think it's Jonathan Kaminga because I
still what he has the potential to do defensively and
if you can just trust him to hit even set threes,
so if he's a three point shooter that just opens
up his game to the rim, I think it's him,
and it has look if he's gonna make more than
Austin Reeves and his extension. So I'm even I'm taking
that into this that I know he's on his rookie
scale right now, I'm thinking he's gonna get like, I
don't know, probably twenty plus million like, it wouldn't shock
me if you got in the twenty five range. With
the way that the Warriors seemed to really value him,
I still think I'm taking him because of just I
think we've seen the best version of Austin Reeves already
and is a good player, I don't know that we've
seen his opportunity was inconsistent until basically a point last year,
and I think you could argue that Golden State's offense
isn't necessarily built right then or now for him to
be at his peak or in the proper role. Maybe
next season will be a little bit better, but the
spacing could be shaky. It depends on just the types
of rotations they're running, and how is danthy Melton doing
with his shots? How much they playing? But heal, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Is Draymond Green hitting threes again, because like once every
five years he decides to do that apparently. So I
think it's Jonathan Kminga. Where do you land on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one's tough, Like, I love to know what
Kaminga got on his next contract because that will factor
in so much too.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what he's gonna get and it'll
be an average annual value of twenty five million dollars.
Speaker 2: If it was that low, I would take kamena.
Speaker 1: Oh you guys really higher.
Speaker 2: I'm worried.
Speaker 1: I really got it. I'm worried that's the thing, the
cat going up. I'm good at analyzing stuff in real
time and saying oh, okay against the cap, but I
have no feel for the like remember we did the
over under on the extensions, Yes, and I just I
went back and looked at it quickly like whateverthing was like,
oh okay, So I have no pulse apparently for what
the actual market is gonna be said at I'm thinking
twenty five is like, okay, twenty seven I could see
it like, oh, you think he's gonna get in the thirties.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean a max for someone of his experience,
assuming the cap goes up ten percent, which is going
to thirty eight point seven million.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's a keep forgetting but still law. Honestly,
I guess so if he's is thirty the better number
to assume, then I think so? Right, So thirty million
for let's say, let's say it's not five years, let's
say four years, one hundred and twenty million. That feels
like a nice middle.
Speaker 2: Grand Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Would. I would be happy if I could keep it
that well, Like, that's what I'm wondering if he was
even higher.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm actually because I've said that I think Jonathan
can make a could be a fantastic player. But we're
extrapolating based off such a small set like the thirty
eight game or forty one game stretch that you have
last year. I just can't extrapolate like it was half
a season for a team that did nothing at the
end of the day, right, so, and I know they
went on that run, but it was a half a
season basically. So I'm just worried we're extrapolating too much
because I do think. Do I think that he could
be like a bouncy or more physical Paul George. Probably not,
But if you told me he made All Star appearances,
I would absolutely be like, Okay, So maybe I'm actually
too low on him when I just thought the consensus
was that people were too high on him.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I think there's no question is the
higher ceiling than Austin Reeves. It's just the reason I'm
asking is like Austin Reeves is locked into this cheap
contract for another few years, so I think that fuels
a lot of his trade value, whereas Kaminga, if he's
on you know, four years, one hundred and twenty million,
he might actually preserve some trade value. If he's on
five years, one hundred and seventy five million, like what
a Manuel quickly just got, then I lean probably a
little more toward Austin Reeves.
Speaker 1: So, so, what's the number that would make you need?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: Like, what's the this is the most he could make?
Like it gets to this number, and now I'm definitely
picking Austin Reeves. Is it five and one sixty? So
forty million? U scary? Thirty million dollars a year over
the over thirty million a year over five years? Is
it the manual quickly deals? It lower than that.
Speaker 2: The Emmanuel quickly deal to have me worried for sure?
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess the one thing working in his
favor right now is if you trade for him, you're
getting his matching rights. So maybe you just don't have
to worry about this because no matter what, you have
the potential to keep him. And like the market tends
to work against restricted free agents. Now, maybe someone, maybe
some team would like go into next summer saying we
are going to save all of our cap space. We're
not going to make a run it Aaron Gordon or whoever,
because we want to just throw a giant offer shade
at Kaminga. But like, maybe you can just wait out
the market and you find yourself. But he finds himself
in a similar situation too, is a cocoro where like
cap spaces dried up, but he has no suitors and
now you're gonna get him back on far less than
what you expected. But yeah, I'd say anything about thirty
million a year, I would start to get nervous and
probably lean more towards Austin Reeves. And that's really just again,
it's because Minga is like still such a mystery box
that the high.
Speaker 2: End outcomes are.
Speaker 3: You said, multi time All Star wouldn't totally shock me,
Like I would be pretty shocked if Boston Reeves a
multi time All Star at any point in his career.
But can you build around Kaminga as one of your
two or three best players under this new CVA, which
is what that contract would necessitate that I have more
concerned about.
Speaker 1: I'm up again, right, are you right? Are you ready
to buckle up? Yes, LaMelo ball or Trey Young? I
bet you can guess which one I would pick.
Speaker 2: But I would guess you would say LaMelo.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 3: I would lean toward LaMelo as well, But it's it's tricky.
Speaker 1: Do we want to end the analysis there?
Speaker 2: That's it?
Speaker 3: No? I mean LaMelo with the ankle injuries obviously, and
you know whatever he does off the court with his
maybe does he know speed limits exist?
Speaker 2: That is a real concern. But Tray, I mean, it
sounds like the Hawks at least gauge the market for
him and there wasn't much of one. And whether that's
the contract.
Speaker 3: His defense seems like he's at least rubbed some teammates
the wrong way over the years.
Speaker 1: He's gotten to a point for me, and I actually
tend to be I think he's underrated. And how like,
if I was a team, if the Lakers had the
opportunity to just throw all the picks to get Trey Young,
I'm not saying they did, I would have done it.
So I want to make that clear. But defense to me,
if you, I think you laid out his top three concerns,
is the ball dominance, or lack of flexibility we've seen
so far on offense, the rubbing teammates the wrong way,
whatever goes on behind the scenes, and then the defense.
That's the order of concern that I had, Like where
defense is just like he's tried for the past year
and a half and no, he's never gonna be good.
But it's like now that's like the third biggest concern
on my listed things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly where LaMelo like we haven't seen
him contribute to a winning basketball team yet, but that
is that his fault or that just he landed on
the Hornets and the Hornets where basketball goes to die,
and like maybe we'll see it this year with I mean,
Brandon Miller came on really strong, especially towards the end
of last year. So now he has like a legitimate
co star. Maybe Mark Williams stays healthy this year. Like
I think there'll be more teams willing to.
Speaker 2: Gamble on LaMelo than.
Speaker 3: Yeah Tree, Young, by all accounts, was available this summer
and there was not much interest, which would suggest that
he did not have a ton of trade value, or
that Atlanta was just asking for the moon and no
team was willing to do it, But I think Charlotte
could rightfully ask for the moon for LaMelo, and I
would imagine they would actually be able to get it.
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you. And also, he's just if
he's healthy, he's easier to fit alongside other players. I
forget about the defense, forget about the bed. It's just
his game is just a little bit more scalable. If
you don't like yeah, if you want trade to just
be r all everything, his game is actually scalable. But
if you want to try some different types of roles
and different types of offenses, LaMelo just makes way more sense.
And obviously he's making less too and under contract for longer,
so there's that's going to appeal to some people. But
as of right now, Trey Young is substantially the better player.
He's been more available, Like we've seen the theory of
him on offense on a team that made it to
the conference finals one year. LaMelo has not had that
talent around him, of course, so I feel like Trey
Young gets a short shrift in a vacuum. But it's
just not even I wouldn't pick him here either, so
maybe I'm part of giving him the short shrift.
Speaker 2: There you go, you're up. I'm up, all right. Oh okay,
let's see this one.
Speaker 3: Desmond Bain or Damian Lillard.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I thought this was gonna be one that
we ended up skipping. I'm not gonna lie. So I
think it's Desmond Bain just because of the age, the
defensive concerns. Damian Lollward will shoot better on catch and
shoot threes next year. He was at like thirty three
percent or under thirty three percent this past season. But
Bain is like, if you go and look at how
he's developed as a self starter on the offensive end, No,
it's not Damian Lillard to ask, but he can generate
his own offense, do it semi efficiently, and he's gonna
give you more defensively. And he's also still has that
plug and play element where if you're gonna have John
Ran or you're gonna have another ball dominant superstar, Like, yeah,
he'll play off of them. I do wish he was
a little bit bigger, a little bit longer, but he's
gonna give you way more on defense than Damian Lillard
at this point. So you could still make the case
that Damian Lillard in a single season is just more valuable.
But part of evaluating trade stocks is looking at contracts
and then trying to scale forward multiple years. And I
think I pretty comfortably picked Desmond Baine in this arena.
Speaker 3: Yeah I would as well, but I wanted to do
it to make Bucks fans.
Speaker 1: Men another one, and I think this will be the
last one. I had other stuff want to ask you about,
and I wanted to go an hour on this. Kane
Cunningham or Evan Mobley.
Speaker 3: So both on the identical five year maxes, correct, so
you could factor it.
Speaker 1: Are we looking at that they're either both poison pill
or you're just moving them next summer?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Man? This one really just might be team dependent.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you need that guy who can run
your entire offense, like, if you don't have a point
guard in.
Speaker 2: Place, you're taking kid obviously.
Speaker 3: If you need someone to be like the focal point
of your offense, you're taking Kid. If you have the
luxury of we have that guy in place, whoever it is,
you're taking Mobile in a landslide.
Speaker 1: It doesn't It kind of come down to then who
fits in more situations than across the spectrum.
Speaker 3: Like I would lean mobilely personally, but that might be
the wrong pick.
Speaker 2: I just value.
Speaker 3: What he brings defensively. I think he is showing signs
of growth offensively as well, whereas Kaide, I'm not convinced
he's ever gonna be an elite, elite defender. I think
he you know, he's got the size that he doesn't have.
Speaker 2: To be terrible and then of the floor. We're not
talking Tray.
Speaker 3: Young here, but his value is primary primarily on offense,
whereas Mobili, I think can be that was the only
reason he can't be above average on offense one day,
and we've already seen him with the ceiling of like
a legitimate challenger for Defensive Player of the Year.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that I.
Speaker 3: Would lean that way, although I could very much understand
if people preferred Kate cunning him. It really this one,
I think more than a lot of the ones we've discussed.
It's like just depends on the context of whatever team
they're being traded to.
Speaker 1: I think Kate is this safer pick, but that Mobile
is going to offer more of a pay like a
payoff if he hits his highest end outcome is how
I would frame it, And I'd probably still just lean
Mobili because I would operate under the assumption that whichever
team is trading for him probably just views him as
their loan big will have him in a better or
at the very least, like he's not going to be
the third or third option of your offense. They're gonna
plan on using him as a number two or something.
But I think the bigger thing is the spacing. And look,
it didn't trade any to the playoffs, but he hit
above and it was only like one point eight attempts
per game or whatever it was when he came back
from that injury, he was hitting above the break threes
like those were going in, We're taking them there, And like,
if that that is even the part of his game now,
given everything else he can do offensively, it's I would
say it's him And it probably actually shouldn't be that
close at this moment. If you just believe in the oh,
he's gonna hit stand still above the break threes, Like,
if you could just guarantee that, that probably makes this
decision way easier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would completely agree.
Speaker 1: Is there any other pairing here that you see that
you would like to get to that was on this
list or did you want to move on to the
just couple of other questions I have for you.
Speaker 2: We can move on.
Speaker 3: All I do want to shout out the Walker Kestler
or Mitchell Robinson that you it was the last one.
You plowed it and I just love it because it
must kill you inside to even type those two names together.
Speaker 1: What's the answer?
Speaker 2: I have no idea because apparently Utah hates Walker? That's
what did he use?
Speaker 1: He might?
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's gotta be a behind him.
Speaker 1: Did he kick a puppy?
Speaker 3: Just like there is no there's no logical explanation which
tells me something bad happened behind the scenes, or they
like they see something in practice, or like maybe he
maybe he got a little too big headed after the
rookie year and needed some humbling. But like I I,
you know, as soon as he popped up in trade members,
I feel like the reaction was from everyone was just
like why what.
Speaker 1: Is the answer? Just Robinson though, because he's making more
money and it's not astronomical money. With Walker Kessler, it's
if you're Utah on you're trading him. It's it all
comes down to like first round picks or other players
on their rookie scales.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or you have to like package him with Jordan
Clarkson or John Collins just to get to the money too. Yeah. Yeah,
that's a good point. I mean, like I think teams
would rather gamble on Walker Kessler at this point, but
maybe not like maybe I guess you know what you're
getting to Mitchell Robinson, whereas Kessler is like, yeah, this
amazing rookie season and then whatever the hell happened last year,
And I would imagine going from that in favor to
that out of favor that quickly a lot of teams
would be like, this is weird, So what what happened?
Speaker 2: And why are we giving up this much to get him?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good point. That's probably the
right answer. That's a real this is like a real
sickoh one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: I like that, like all of the you know, wrie
versus Ayah Williamson, Sure, Walker Kessler, Mitchell Robinson's like, all right,
this is you watched too much NBA.
Speaker 2: You gotta take a break.
Speaker 1: By friends, mister Tapoak, thank you forgiving me so much
of your time for one last time for a while.
It was a blast. As always, are you able to
tell our listeners though? As usual can find you in
all the great work that you continue to push out.
Speaker 2: Yes, although I don't know how much work I'm going
to be pushing out for the next few weeks. Uh.
You can find me on Twitter at b T O
P O R e K. I've been very dormant there
and very much we might stay dormant, so I can't
promise that I'm going to be pushing a ton of
articles there, but follow me at Forbes, at Liberty Bollers
the crew there. It does great work, especially if you
care about the Sixers or hate the Sixers, which apparently
seems to be most of the NBA based on then
the Team USA this summer. So if you want to
just jump in the comments section and call Joel and
be at a communist or whatever the hell is going
on these days?
Speaker 1: That was That was Gilbertinus in the comment sections, which it.
Speaker 3: Might be it might oh yeah, oh my god, don't
get me started on uncle.
Speaker 1: No, we don't even need to dignify.
Speaker 3: That's one of it.
Speaker 1: I like to dunk on people sometimes, but that was
one like, now, we don't need to give airtime to
what he actually said because disgusting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess Royce White needed company and they just
you've gone so far off the rail, like, how did
we get from point A to point being? So congratulations
gil you're making a name for yourself.
Speaker 1: Gilbert Arene ass am.
Speaker 2: I right, well, Don, well done, Thank you.
Speaker 1: So much, Brian, this was great. I know you'll be
back on again in the future, but we all here
with you the best of luck. Did you welcome your
second child and with your continued coverage you remain the best. Sir,
Thank you so much for all your time, as always, of.
Speaker 2: Course any time. Den