Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like to say subscribe and rade it.
Speaker 2: I'm stary.
Speaker 1: Greatest on yesterday and listening watching Limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 1: And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bobo Fay.
Speaker 2: Hello, Bobo? How you doing?
Speaker 1: Manre you?
Speaker 3: What's going on? Cliff?
Speaker 2: All sorts of.
Speaker 1: Stuff as usual. I had a pretty eventful weekend. We
Speaker 1: can get it out a little bit in the members
Speaker 1: section here because we have a great guest when I
Speaker 1: will take too long for it, but we'll get to
Speaker 1: that later. But I don't want to keep our guests
Speaker 1: on the line too much longer because I'm excited about
Speaker 1: this one and and some people out there might be
Speaker 1: puzzling about that because we have a paranormal guest on
Speaker 1: and Cliff's excited about it. Well you'll see why here.
Speaker 1: I think this is gonna be great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's cool.
Speaker 3: I was on his show a couple of times. He's
Speaker 3: a good dude.
Speaker 1: And of course, if you are interested in hearing what
Speaker 1: but when I talk about in the member section, we're
Speaker 1: not hiding it from you. But you know, if you're
Speaker 1: interested in becoming a member. There's a link in the
Speaker 1: show notes, and we get an extra episode every Thursday,
Speaker 1: so you get pretty much twice the Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 1: All right, we let's jump into our guests tonight, and
Speaker 1: then I'm very very pleased to have our friend on.
Speaker 1: Dave Schrader is our guest tonight. He's a ghost dude.
Speaker 1: That's how I know him, because you know, I don't
Speaker 1: watch a lot of TV and stuff in general, but
Speaker 1: I do know Dave from doing various gigs around town
Speaker 1: and whatnot. He's been on a couple panels with me
Speaker 1: and just I always have a great time speaking with him.
Speaker 1: He's been on a number of television shows at The
Speaker 1: Holser Files The Ghost of Devil's Perch whe are two
Speaker 1: of the most recent ones, but I think he's been
Speaker 1: on countless ones really so I've never counted them, that's
Speaker 1: for sure, But right now I think he has a
Speaker 1: very popular podcast called Paranormal sixty and so Dave, Dave Schrader,
Speaker 1: welcome to Bigfoot and Beyond. I'm so glad you can
Speaker 1: join us.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you both for having me on. I appreciate this.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had Bobo on my show when I
Speaker 2: used to be on Darkness Radio, and he was so
Speaker 2: popular that I think we ended up having him back
Speaker 2: the next night to continue our conversation and had a
Speaker 2: great time. So and Cliff, you and I always just
Speaker 2: seem to miss each other when availability would open up.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad I get a chance to visit with
Speaker 2: you now and this is fantastic. Thanks for having me in.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's hard to have just one one
Speaker 1: helping of Bobo. You always want to have seconds when
Speaker 1: you have that dish, you know, no doubt, niceaid. And
Speaker 1: you know, I don't do a lot of podcasts nowadays
Speaker 1: because I work on one, you know, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I bet a maid's house is dirty for example.
Speaker 1: You know, So I don't do a lot of podcasts
Speaker 1: in my off time, but I'd be happy to do
Speaker 1: yours anytime. Just give me a holler let me know.
Speaker 2: So, oh you know it. We'd love to have you
Speaker 2: Kim on and chat and catch up our audience on
Speaker 2: all things Crypted as well. That's such a huge, huge
Speaker 2: following that it's strange to me, you know, as a
Speaker 2: guy's been in the paranormal field actively as a radio
Speaker 2: show host for eighteen years. First with Darkness Radio, I
Speaker 2: was a fill in host on Coast to Coast for
Speaker 2: five years, and then I've been doing my new podcast,
Speaker 2: The Paranormal sixty for the last three years. It's always
Speaker 2: amazing to me that I could come out with some
Speaker 2: of the most unbelievably amazing stories of reincarnation or demonic
Speaker 2: possession or hauntings that are making the Amityville look like
Speaker 2: kiddie play. But then I do an episode on Bigfoot
Speaker 2: and I get multiples of downloads, and I would get
Speaker 2: on any other episode, and it's great to see that
Speaker 2: that interest in fascination continues. But it's kind of confounding,
Speaker 2: and I'd actually love to pick both of your brains.
Speaker 2: There's so much going on in the world, and the
Speaker 2: concept that, you know, alien disclosures kind of out there. Now.
Speaker 2: There's ghost shows everywhere, but there's always just one, maybe
Speaker 2: two big Foot style shows going on. Why do you
Speaker 2: think there's so much excitement that continues in the field
Speaker 2: of cryptozoology because it's real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the real animals. It's as simple as that. I mean,
Speaker 1: people wonder when the people who don't think sasquatches are
Speaker 1: real wonder when the whole thing is gonna go away,
Speaker 1: and it's like that's like asking, well, gosh, you know
Speaker 1: what is this whole elk thing gonna go away? You
Speaker 1: know what is this whole black bear thing gonna go away?
Speaker 1: I'm tired of it? I mean, are people gonna be
Speaker 1: finished talking about it? It's like, No, there's always gonna
Speaker 1: be hunters, you know, They're always gonna there's gonna be
Speaker 1: outdoors people, and there are always gonna be sasquatches around
Speaker 1: because they're just here.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It is persistent because of the reality of the species.
Speaker 1: I like it, and I love the fact that people
Speaker 1: have this ongoing fascination when and again, being a guy
Speaker 1: on the outside and having watched your shows and the
Speaker 1: other shows that have come out regarding cryptids and bigfoot
Speaker 1: in specific, it's it's always fascinating to me that there's
Speaker 1: such fleeting amounts of what would be considered really amazing
Speaker 1: evidence that I've had a.
Speaker 2: Chance to see. But yet that's enough to just keep
Speaker 2: people really intrigued by the concept that there might be this,
Speaker 2: whether it's a ghostly creature, an interdimensional being, or just
Speaker 2: a zoological creature. We have not yet identified. It's it's
Speaker 2: fun to watch people really glom onto this and have
Speaker 2: such a deep love and respect and fondness for that
Speaker 2: specific creature.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it might have something to do with that.
Speaker 1: We see a little bit of ourselves in them, you know,
Speaker 1: because they're shaped like us, for example, you know, like
Speaker 1: that the general morphology of a human being kind of
Speaker 1: sort of even though they're very very different from us
Speaker 1: obviously in pretty much every aspect, but they are kind
Speaker 1: of like us. And I think we kind of see
Speaker 1: that and glom onto it in the same sort of
Speaker 1: way that back in the day, you know, like nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, people got a kick out of, like watching it,
Speaker 1: seeing a chimpanzee in a suit or something like that, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that there's something akin to that.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that word would be, but I
Speaker 1: think there's something akin to that. It's just unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: always find it unfortunate how the depiction that the media
Speaker 1: gives the subject and also the researchers, you know, the
Speaker 1: researcher are often depicted very very poorly, like gullible tinfoil
Speaker 1: hat wear and weirdos and mind you, some of us are,
Speaker 1: but the subject itself deserves such a higher level of
Speaker 1: respect than what I feel it gets on television and
Speaker 1: the Internet and whatever else. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, the subject is here, It is real, and
Speaker 1: the animals are real, just perfectly normal animals out in
Speaker 1: the woods, and as long as they're walking around, the
Speaker 1: mystery of the subject will also be walking around, at
Speaker 1: least until Discovery Day whenever.
Speaker 4: That is so, just like Tenacious D is saying, which
Speaker 4: is you know, the mother effer is real, real, real, real,
Speaker 4: Sasquatch is real.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you did have to finish that. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure everybody would know that they were. They actually
Speaker 1: said that you don't know the Sasquatch, so.
Speaker 3: I do not. You don't squash your love is real.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 1: It's an epic ballad and we'll have some really hard
Speaker 1: rocking parts as well. It's really the quintessence of prog
Speaker 1: rock in some ways. See nobody's writing good ghost story
Speaker 1: songs anymore. Yeah, you know what, why not? Because there's
Speaker 1: there's a there's a whole lot of Sasquatch songs, So
Speaker 1: what's up with that? Where the artists in the ghost world.
Speaker 1: How come they're not doing that? I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, there might be they're just
Speaker 1: not as vocal about it, and it's just a topic
Speaker 1: that you don't hear coming. But I like one of
Speaker 1: my favorite all time songs of any genre is Charlie
Speaker 1: Daniels band The Legend of Wooly Swamp and the ghostly
Speaker 1: Stories and just the concept of being deep out in
Speaker 1: the woods and not knowing your surroundings and just how
Speaker 1: dangerous it could be, and how dangerous it is for
Speaker 1: the three brothers that go and seek the fortune that
Speaker 1: is told to be out there. But I just love
Speaker 1: that ghost story. That's always been one of my favorites,
Speaker 1: and I love the fact that it was all in
Speaker 1: a song format. But of course, Charlie Daniels also did
Speaker 1: the Double Nut in Georgia, so there seems to be
Speaker 1: a lot of spiritual or you know, songs along in
Speaker 1: his repertoire is book. Perhaps could it be, And I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm assuming the fair number of ghost people
Speaker 1: listen to this. Maybe they don't they've had enough of me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, But perhaps could it be that ghost
Speaker 1: people don't sing very well, you know.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to even put that out there because
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of Bruce Springsteen and he's got
Speaker 2: a bunch of songs about ghosts and even as a
Speaker 2: song called the Jersey Devil, So I'm going to give
Speaker 2: him the credit where credit is due. At least, I
Speaker 2: know one guy's still putting out some songs with paranormal
Speaker 2: slants and themes to them.
Speaker 1: Maybe he absorbed everybody else's talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be the only excuse that I can understand.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just messing with the ghost community. So because you
Speaker 1: know I'm not anti ghosts, I get a lot of
Speaker 1: that in the shop or whatever. If I'm out on
Speaker 1: a gig at one of these speaking deals, people come
Speaker 1: up to me, he says, I know you're not a
Speaker 1: paranormal guy, and I know this and that.
Speaker 2: Blah buh.
Speaker 1: Well, you don't know much because you know I told
Speaker 1: you on stage. Remember when we did the Oregon big
Speaker 1: Foot Conference last year, I told you my ghost story
Speaker 1: in front of everybody. You know, like I do, think
Speaker 1: paranormal stuff happens. I just don't know what that stuff is,
Speaker 1: and I under no circumstances to I think sasquatches are
Speaker 1: in any way paranormal, you know, but that's just a
Speaker 1: when you when you look at the weird fields that
Speaker 1: you know, you and I and everybody else looks into.
Speaker 1: If you want to put that under the umbrella of
Speaker 1: unknown or supernatural or paranormal, I said, eh, okay, but
Speaker 1: sasquatch is a very very small slice of that pie,
Speaker 1: And that's a very very boring slice of that pie
Speaker 1: in some ways, because there isn't, in my opinion, anything
Speaker 1: paranormal about it. But I'm into all other weird things.
Speaker 1: How do you think I got into big foot in
Speaker 1: the first places?
Speaker 2: My thought?
Speaker 1: You know, like clearly you're you're not like a perfectly
Speaker 1: normal person who just happens to be interested in sasquatches.
Speaker 3: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna if you're gonna argue now that you're
Speaker 1: a perfectly normal person, I don't even know what.
Speaker 2: To say to you. I am he is one of
Speaker 2: the most normal people. He knows well.
Speaker 1: I actually I've hung out of your house for a
Speaker 1: week or so at a time up in Humboldt, and
Speaker 1: between you know, you and Jesse Legend and Heavy met
Speaker 1: Pat and Rubber Arm Joe and all your other weird
Speaker 1: muppet friends that come by. You know, I guess you
Speaker 1: are pretty normal exactly. But didn't you tell me once
Speaker 1: that I'm the most normal person?
Speaker 3: You know, you're the most normal person that introduced to
Speaker 3: my parents as a friend.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, you're the token normal friend. Of course
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 3: You had a job back then.
Speaker 1: I've failed you. I've failed you. Well anyway, Dave, Dave.
Speaker 1: So I've got a couple of questions for you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Again, I don't watch much TV. Maybe this is already
Speaker 1: out there or something like that, but specifically the Holser Files, right,
Speaker 1: that was one of the shows you're on, And apparently
Speaker 1: I was reading a little bit about it in preparation
Speaker 1: for the interview here, and what I get is that
Speaker 1: there was a historic ghost person or paranormal person called
Speaker 1: doctor Hans Holzer and that that show explored his files.
Speaker 1: Is that is that the correct slant of the show? There?
Speaker 2: The synopsis? Yeah, doctor Hans Holzer had been around. You know,
Speaker 2: he's a very pre eminent paranormal investigator. They call him
Speaker 2: one of America's first ghost hunters. He had a TV
Speaker 2: series known as ghost Hunters long before the ghost Hunters
Speaker 2: TV series came out, he was on Network news all
Speaker 2: the time. He put the Whaley House in San Diego
Speaker 2: on the map while investigating it with his friend Regis Philbin,
Speaker 2: who captured weird experiences on film. He reduced, yeah, if
Speaker 2: you look online. As a matter of fact, they did
Speaker 2: that Celebrity ghost Stories or My ghost Stories a few
Speaker 2: years ago where they would take some of these celebrities
Speaker 2: back to the locations that you know that upset them,
Speaker 2: that they had these encounters with. And Reis talked very
Speaker 2: openly about his paranormal encounters at the Whaley House.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the weirdest thing I've heard all day. Yeah, good,
Speaker 1: We've just begun.
Speaker 2: Doctor Holzer, he really you know, he wrote over I
Speaker 2: think it was one hundred and eighty five books on
Speaker 2: just about every angle of the strange and supernatural, from
Speaker 2: witchcraft to UFOs, to miracle priests, to ghosts and hauntings
Speaker 2: and famous haunted locations. And like him, I have such
Speaker 2: a love and fascination of history that it was just
Speaker 2: so when they opened the door to me to let
Speaker 2: me in to investigate his files, I jumped on it.
Speaker 2: Because when they first when they first reached out. They're like, hey, Dave,
Speaker 2: you know hey, we're aware of you. We're interested in
Speaker 2: having you lead on a ghost show. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I think i'm good. Thanks, and they were like, well, no,
Speaker 2: this is TV and I'm like, yeah, I think i'm good.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. No, don't you understand that I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to be polite, right, But I'm like, there's enough
Speaker 2: ghost shows and I don't want to just be part
Speaker 2: of a cookie cutter cast. And they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: this is totally different. And I said, how's it different. Well,
Speaker 2: it's just going to be three of you. And I
Speaker 2: said I think that show is called Ghost Adventures and
Speaker 2: he goes, no, no, no, one of you is going
Speaker 2: to be a medium and a psychic. And I said, oh,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of like Dead Files. No no, no,
Speaker 2: it's I can't tell you until you agree that you
Speaker 2: want to be a part of this. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: we're in an impact then, because I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be a part of something I don't know more about.
Speaker 2: So I signed some thick phone book style NDA and
Speaker 2: as soon as I signed it, they said, we're reopening
Speaker 2: the case files of doctor Hans Holzer, and that's all
Speaker 2: they got out of their mouths, and I'm like, I'm in,
Speaker 2: count me in. This will be amazing, So I was
Speaker 2: willing to do that. They had all the original video, photographs,
Speaker 2: audio recordings, handwritten notes, everything he had done over his
Speaker 2: like forty five fifty year span of investigating the supernatural,
Speaker 2: and I was man. I grew up reading Hans Holzer's books,
Speaker 2: so to get a chance to follow in his footsteps.
Speaker 2: And another interesting tie I had to doctor Holzer was
Speaker 2: our radio show. We were the last radio show that
Speaker 2: he did before he sadly passed away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he lived until I think I remember two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine or something like that, so pretty much.
Speaker 2: Around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine that
Speaker 2: he passed away. And you know, I became friends with
Speaker 2: his daughter, Alexandra, and she was part of this program.
Speaker 2: So it really it was a great opportunity. I'm glad
Speaker 2: we got to do it for two seasons. I in
Speaker 2: all their haste to get the show on the air,
Speaker 2: I think they mis named it. You know, Holser Files
Speaker 2: is really cool if you are a triedent and true
Speaker 2: paranormal fan and know who doctor Hans Holzer was, but
Speaker 2: you know, he had passed away in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. He wasn't on any of the
Speaker 2: big paranormal TV series of our time here since you know,
Speaker 2: the relaunching about two thousand and one, with all of
Speaker 2: the different glut of paranormal style shows that came out,
Speaker 2: so he wasn't as familiar. And I kept telling him,
Speaker 2: could we let's name the show Holzer's Ghost Files. I
Speaker 2: think if the audience knows what you know, what the
Speaker 2: files are that we're investigating. Otherwise it sounds like a
Speaker 2: seventies detective show. And they didn't change the name. We built,
Speaker 2: you know, a nice gathering, but just not enough to
Speaker 2: keep us on for a third season.
Speaker 1: It's hard to find a producer who had listen, you know,
Speaker 1: and think that, oh, the host that's been doing this
Speaker 1: for thirty years may know a little bit more about
Speaker 1: the subject than I do because I've been researching this
Speaker 1: for six months.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I've learned that in the world of TV,
Speaker 2: everybody is smarter than you. So I just, you know,
Speaker 2: nod and smile and do my job the best to
Speaker 2: my abilities. And that's that's all I did. They rolled
Speaker 2: Cindy Kase of the Medium and I that were on
Speaker 2: the Holzer Files over to another program called The Ghosts
Speaker 2: of and we were brought out to Butte, Montana to investigate.
Speaker 2: And we stayed there for a little over ninety days,
Speaker 2: just living and breathing and sweating in that same town
Speaker 2: with the people, and it was it was a great experience.
Speaker 2: But holy cow, what a bunch of weird paranormal things
Speaker 2: are going on in that town. And there's everything from
Speaker 2: UFO sightings to cryptid sidings, to ghosts and what they
Speaker 2: believe are demons. So that was another head trip to
Speaker 2: be a part of a program like that.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages.
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Speaker 1: When so much variety of weird stuff happens around a
Speaker 1: location in particular, either do you think it has more
Speaker 1: to do with the people or the location itself. Like
Speaker 1: there's people like Bobbo for example, I believe, and I
Speaker 1: want to put words in his mouth. You can refute
Speaker 1: this if you choose Bobes, but like he's very strong.
Speaker 1: He's a strong advocate of the vortex kind of idea,
Speaker 1: you know, or the skinwasher or Skinwalker ranch thing out
Speaker 1: in Utah, or any of these number of things. You
Speaker 1: think it's a location deal or is it a people deal.
Speaker 1: I think it's a mixture of both. I think that
Speaker 1: like in the case of Butte Montana, here you've got
Speaker 1: this gorgeous land and it drew all these people because
Speaker 1: of the minerals that were in the earth, the silver
Speaker 1: of the gold and the copper, which is really what
Speaker 1: was so big there.
Speaker 2: And you know they built this it was the wild West. Baby.
Speaker 2: There were you know, shootouts and you had such a.
Speaker 2: It was a mining town that were twenty four to seven,
Speaker 2: so did the brothels. There were blocks of whorehouses that
Speaker 2: ran twenty four hours a day, and there were levels
Speaker 2: to the whorehouses that you could is it depending on
Speaker 2: how much money you made. So there, you know, literally
Speaker 2: there was elite on the top floor all the way
Speaker 2: down to guys that were making pennies. There was something
Speaker 2: for everybody. And it was a town you know in violence,
Speaker 2: steeped in shootouts and fisticuffs and you know, sex and
Speaker 2: violence and money and greed. And I think that that
Speaker 2: taints the ground after a while. That kind of anxiety,
Speaker 2: that kind of stress can have an impact and an
Speaker 2: effect on an area. And I don't know if people
Speaker 2: are drawn to a specific place because of the energy
Speaker 2: that's there, or do we create this rift, this vortex
Speaker 2: because of the way we treat a location, its history
Speaker 2: and the people that walk that place before we were there.
Speaker 1: Maybe one begets the other.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, because there are some places that
Speaker 2: are extremely haunted that we have nobody died here. We
Speaker 2: don't know why this is so active, you know, And
Speaker 2: not only that, but they're seeing UFOs in the sky
Speaker 2: and people in the neighborhood have had bigfoot encounters, and
Speaker 2: it's just to me, it's astonishing because I can't figure
Speaker 2: out what is it about this? It ends up like
Speaker 2: an episode of Stranger Things. It's just like Bobo loves
Speaker 2: these vortex these portal spots that just seem to be
Speaker 2: a hotbed of activity of many different styles. Interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder about those.
Speaker 2: Why is it?
Speaker 3: I mean, because Native Americans those are tens of thousands
Speaker 3: of years. It's like, why more of their ghosts scene?
Speaker 3: I mean, I know they're scenes sometimes, but seems like
Speaker 3: they should be seen a lot more.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and again nobody has the one answer.
Speaker 2: I often wonder though, if time is not linear, if
Speaker 2: it is like the string theory, and it's a big
Speaker 2: ball of timey wymy wibbly wobbly stuff, right, and it's
Speaker 2: could it be that the timeline of eighteen hundred to
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty twenty one happens to being, you know, laying
Speaker 2: over the timeline of two thousand to two thousand and thirty,
Speaker 2: And as time and space continue to change and underlate, well,
Speaker 2: will the next layer of time lay upon Native American
Speaker 2: spirits or ancient Rome will we see more of that
Speaker 2: taking place. It also may have to do with the
Speaker 2: belief systems of the locations. You know, the native people
Speaker 2: and indigenous tribes were so respectful of their dead and
Speaker 2: did everything they could to put these these people and
Speaker 2: beings and spirits to rest that I think that there's
Speaker 2: not that same dissension and even the brutal murders that
Speaker 2: took place and this enfranchising these these tribes people, which
Speaker 2: is heartbreaking to talk about, I think that they were
Speaker 2: on a different level of evolution in a mindset that
Speaker 2: although the death was not something that they would have
Speaker 2: wanted or chosen, and I think they felt that in
Speaker 2: the battle that they did to try to save their people,
Speaker 2: save their culture, they move on because it was a
Speaker 2: heroic deed. So I think there's some elements of that.
Speaker 2: I also think it also, you know, we see these
Speaker 2: cyclical moments when paranormal seems to be in resurgence, and
Speaker 2: there was that eighteen hundreds to early nineteen hundreds, famine, disease, pestilence,
Speaker 2: all of these horrible things that were taking place, and
Speaker 2: people were constantly calling out to the spirit realm and spiritualists,
Speaker 2: did we rupture something in doing that, that that's why
Speaker 2: we see that time era, and we don't see the
Speaker 2: time era of other places. And maybe the places that do,
Speaker 2: say the Native American spirits, are places like Skinwalker Ranch
Speaker 2: or or you know, deep in the wilderness where we
Speaker 2: don't walk still, and that may be where the indigenous
Speaker 2: spirits and tribes people still gather. Now, that brings an
Speaker 2: interesting question to my mind. At least, at least I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting researchers, at least in Bigfoot. I don't
Speaker 2: know if this is true in ghosts or not. Researchers
Speaker 2: are honestly seem to be kind of few and far between.
Speaker 2: Most of the people in the Bigfoot world tend to
Speaker 2: be like fans of the subject or ficionados, you know,
Speaker 2: but almost nobody has really taken notes, like using Excel
Speaker 2: sheets and you know that kind of stuff, looking for patterns,
Speaker 2: and almost nobody really, very very few people. Are there
Speaker 2: people doing that in the ghost field or are they
Speaker 2: doing the equivalent of going out and banging on trees
Speaker 2: and listening for something and maybe bringing a recording home,
Speaker 2: you know, which is I guess, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've seen a few minutes of occasional ghost shows like
Speaker 2: I guess yelling at a wall or something and saying,
Speaker 2: are you there? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know very little about the ghost world.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna be very honest. I know almost
Speaker 1: nothing about all this, so this is all new to me.
Speaker 2: We're not that different, Cliff. We go into dark areas
Speaker 2: by ourselves and we do our own versions of the whoop, hello,
Speaker 2: is there anyone here? Knock on the wall. Well, if
Speaker 2: you can hear me, and you bang the walls hoping
Speaker 2: they're going to bang back. So our shows are not
Speaker 2: that different in that concept of hoping finding a way
Speaker 2: to connect with something and get those answers. But there
Speaker 2: are a lot of different organizations that have been working.
Speaker 2: The Ryan Institute UCLA used to have a huge parapsychological department.
Speaker 2: Doctor Barry Taff work there. Thelma, oh gosh, her last
Speaker 2: name is escaping me. But there have been a lot
Speaker 2: of different places and still some that continue to investigate
Speaker 2: these type of phenomenon to understand it or try to,
Speaker 2: and they take the time to corroborate evidence and what
Speaker 2: they find. You know, what are we able to tell?
Speaker 2: My friend Bill Chappele, who is the engineer. He's created
Speaker 2: so many amazing, fun, interesting tools for the paranormal trade
Speaker 2: and investigating ghosts. He will tell you he's not necessarily
Speaker 2: a believer in ghosts. He can't tell you what's activating
Speaker 2: these pieces of equipment, but he'll take our theories and
Speaker 2: build equipment around it as an actual electrical engineer to
Speaker 2: see can these things be influenced by an outside source.
Speaker 2: And he had a tool called the Paranormal Puck and
Speaker 2: it was not real flashy, it wasn't real pretty. You
Speaker 2: plugged it into your laptop, you ran the software, but
Speaker 2: it would calibrate and tell you what the temperature is,
Speaker 2: what the de point average was, what the geomagnetic principles
Speaker 2: of the area you were in. It gave you all
Speaker 2: of this background stuff that nobody really cared about because
Speaker 2: everybody just wants to see a ghost. And he had
Speaker 2: tons of data, but nobody would bother to look at
Speaker 2: the data in correlation with what was taking place. It
Speaker 2: became more of a thrill in an entertainment industry than
Speaker 2: it did a scientific principle. And I know I'm going
Speaker 2: to take heat for saying that, because there are teams
Speaker 2: out there that claim they're scientific, but like you, where
Speaker 2: are their reports, where is their scientific work? And who
Speaker 2: have they peer reviewed with? And you know what's going
Speaker 2: on that just doesn't exist anymore, well so amongst the
Speaker 2: data gatherers. So it sounds like there are some which
Speaker 2: is good to hear. Of course, you know amongst the
Speaker 2: data gatherers, has there ever been a study already publishing
Speaker 2: or what's the gist of the apparitions or whatever? For
Speaker 2: LAFE a better term that are observed? Are there are
Speaker 2: there a predominance of a certain time period, kind of
Speaker 2: going back to what we were talking about before, like
Speaker 2: our most ghosts, you know, Victorian for example, Victorian era
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds to the early nineteen hundreds. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: usually in that roundhouse of about maybe eighteen seventies to
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty one, depending on the type of garb, the
Speaker 2: things that they do or say or have been witnessed doing.
Speaker 2: But being a fan of science as well, I'm not
Speaker 2: necessarily sure that we're seeing a dead person in the
Speaker 2: way that you think we.
Speaker 1: Are, which is what I want to ask you next,
Speaker 1: like is that what we're dealing with? Because I'm friends
Speaker 1: with a fair number of ghosts folks, and it seems
Speaker 1: the jury is out like that. They're not necessarily dead
Speaker 1: people that people are encountering. So what's going on, you think?
Speaker 1: I think some of it is time slip phenomena. I
Speaker 1: think the concept that there are just points where you can,
Speaker 1: you know, you're sharing a location. You're sharing a place
Speaker 1: that has always existed and always will exist. It's been
Speaker 1: in many different forms, but the spot you're sitting on
Speaker 1: has always existed and always will well after you're gone
Speaker 1: and well before you were here. And every person that
Speaker 1: treads that area is like a page in a book,
Speaker 1: and from time to time, I think those pages align
Speaker 1: and you can kind of see the text through one
Speaker 1: page into another. And you know, like the movie The
Speaker 1: Others with Nicole Kidman where she's hearing these ghostly sounds
Speaker 1: and voices and she's being tormented and spoiler alert on
Speaker 1: a twenty year old movie, it turns out that they're
Speaker 1: the dead people and the voices she's here our people
Speaker 1: from the future that are living in that house. And
Speaker 1: I really do think that there are elements of that
Speaker 1: that have occurred. You know, ghost Hunters did a TV
Speaker 1: episode when they went to I think it was Mount
Speaker 1: Washington uh and hotel, and they were engaging with the
Speaker 1: spirit and they you know, Princess, can you hear us?
Speaker 2: Can? Yes, I can hear you. This is my room.
Speaker 2: Where are you? What kind of game are you playing?
Speaker 2: And she was going to get security, So that tells
Speaker 2: me in her consciousness she must have been in her
Speaker 2: room hearing these voices. When I was at Waverly Hills
Speaker 2: Sanatorium in Kentucky, it was a tuberculosis clinic, tens of
Speaker 2: thousands of people reportedly died, and then it was a
Speaker 2: geriatric home in hospital, and nurses and doctors talked about
Speaker 2: it being haunted at its time. And when we were
Speaker 2: there investigating, I was with two other fellow investigators. We
Speaker 2: rounded the corner and a nurse walked around, stopped and
Speaker 2: looked at us. Her eyes got huge, she turned and
Speaker 2: ran the other direction. It's an old, dilapidated building at
Speaker 2: that point, there aren't nurses working there. What did we
Speaker 2: just witness? And to her, did she tell somebody in
Speaker 2: her time era? I just saw three ghosts in the hall.
Speaker 2: I just saw three men that were there. They came
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, And you know, that's what's so fascinating
Speaker 2: to me about this. I can't give you one specific
Speaker 2: answer to what this phenomenon is, how it happens, because
Speaker 2: I think there's many different layers to hauntings. And that's
Speaker 2: what keeps me so fascinated and intrigued by this.
Speaker 3: Is that the Washington Hotel, the Washington Hotel in New Hampshire,
Speaker 3: Vermont up there.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, Mount Washington.
Speaker 3: We were there and money Maker conjured up a ghost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we filmed Finding Bigfoot episode there. That's where we stayed,
Speaker 1: and we're out in the woods doing stuff or whatever.
Speaker 1: But on our night off or whatever, I wasn't involved
Speaker 1: in all that because Melissa was on the crew and
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with her. But everybody else went
Speaker 1: ghost hunning that night and weird stuff happened.
Speaker 3: Well, our sound person or tech she saw she saw
Speaker 3: it and it was up in the ceiling area, like
Speaker 3: scrolling around and she didn't even know that that's where
Speaker 3: the workers would see. It was like in this one
Speaker 3: landing kind of like vestibule area or whatever, and on
Speaker 3: the staircases and they said, oh, yeah, that's a really
Speaker 3: calm place to see it. But yeah, money Maker had
Speaker 3: is Himalayan like a Tibetan.
Speaker 1: Tibet like bowl, singing bowl that he brought with them
Speaker 1: from Tibet or from from the ball. Rather, he got
Speaker 1: one of those when we were out there doing the
Speaker 1: eddy stuff, and he brought it and he goes, he's
Speaker 1: like doing the thing on it and having fun with it.
Speaker 2: Right, and and the resonance of the bowl. Look, Native
Speaker 2: American and indigenous tribes people will talk about music and
Speaker 2: these things that will help them connect to the spiritual
Speaker 2: realm and to nature. I know places that use singing
Speaker 2: bowls to try to communicate with alien life forms. I
Speaker 2: know people that use them in the spiritual realm to
Speaker 2: try to communicate with angry spirit and try to bring
Speaker 2: some harmony. So it's interesting how there are commonalities and
Speaker 2: threads throughout all of the different levels of what's considered
Speaker 2: supernatural or paranormal. And it is funny to me that
Speaker 2: Bigfoot still falls under that umbrella for many people. Right,
Speaker 2: the cryptids are still in that realm of the supernatural,
Speaker 2: and you know, just like they're cryptozoological until we find
Speaker 2: one and now it becomes zoological and it will no
Speaker 2: longer be supernatural. A li itt'll be just part of
Speaker 2: our natural world. But it's interesting to me that there
Speaker 2: are these different layers of the tapestry that still do
Speaker 2: seem to connect things like Bigfoot sightings, alien or UFO
Speaker 2: sightings and haunted hotspots.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: You say, haunted, do you guys make a delineation between
Speaker 3: older like entities that are like spirits or demons or
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call them, versus just human souls
Speaker 3: like in a different time work kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was mentioning is there's all of
Speaker 2: these different layers to what a haunting could be. And
Speaker 2: I think you're shortsighted if you just want to pigeonhole
Speaker 2: ghosts are this, you know, aliens are this. I think
Speaker 2: there's many different possibilities to what these beings are, and
Speaker 2: if we limit ourselves, it might limit our ability to
Speaker 2: look at them more scientifically, to find a way to communicate,
Speaker 2: find ways to kind of circumvent the normalcy of communication
Speaker 2: of things that we'd say, this can't be real, this
Speaker 2: can't exist. So let's put our mindset in a different way.
Speaker 2: If we examine it differently, Can we find something that
Speaker 2: will actually make sense and start to help us bridge
Speaker 2: that chasm and understand more about the spiritual realm. I
Speaker 2: think there's times that they knew more two hundred years
Speaker 2: ago about ghosts and the spiritual realm than we understand
Speaker 2: about it now. Same with creatures, right, And you know
Speaker 2: the reverence people had for the mountain gorillas, but everybody
Speaker 2: thought that it was a lie. It wasn't until I
Speaker 2: think it's only been like one hundred and seventy years.
Speaker 2: One hundred and eighty years since gorillas were officially found.
Speaker 1: Is like eighteen fifty two or something like that, and
Speaker 1: mountain gorillas I believe were nineteen oh two. I probably
Speaker 1: am a year or two often one of those.
Speaker 2: But yeah, right, And isn't that absurd to think that
Speaker 2: that far along in our history, which is just a
Speaker 2: drop of water in the microchasm of the universal ocean
Speaker 2: that we're a part of. That's such a small percentage
Speaker 2: that we could say we've only known about this creature
Speaker 2: legitimately for the last couple hundred years. Something we take
Speaker 2: for granted gorillas have always been around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you know, what are the things that
Speaker 1: makes me really lament our situation, in the human situation
Speaker 1: in some ways, is that most people don't realize that
Speaker 1: science is in its infancy at this moment, in its
Speaker 1: infancy one hundred and thirty years ago, about we didn't
Speaker 1: know about germs, for God's sake, you know, like we
Speaker 1: have barely begun our journey into the unknown. You know,
Speaker 1: most of our human history has been a wash in
Speaker 1: superstition and mythology. Essentially, the science wasn't even a thing,
Speaker 1: you know, until probably, I don't know, eighteen thirty or
Speaker 1: something like that, eighteen fifty. Before that, they were called naturalists,
Speaker 1: and then science wasn't even a thing. And we think
Speaker 1: we're all advanced because we have, you know, iPhones in
Speaker 1: our pocket now now we're infants.
Speaker 2: And before that it was witches and shaman and it
Speaker 2: was magic, these things that we were taking, these these
Speaker 2: plant extracts that they would crush up and then give
Speaker 2: to you for headache powder, and that's what we now
Speaker 2: call aspirin. Right, it's so funny that science is not
Speaker 2: that far along. Even in this baffles my mind. We
Speaker 2: still cannot figure out where consciousness exists in a human being.
Speaker 2: We can't even define what consciousness is, and death is
Speaker 2: constantly changing. What we believed even ten years ago about
Speaker 2: death is radically different now, and we're realizing that there
Speaker 2: may be consciousness in a physical body once the heart
Speaker 2: stops for up to four hours.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this idea that I've seen
Speaker 1: slowly start spreading, I think amongst the paranormal world, and
Speaker 1: I think that's some bigfooters fall into this as well.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it fits sasquatch stuff at all,
Speaker 1: of course, But you know me, I'm pretty practical about
Speaker 1: this whole animal thing. But the other paranormal stuff, I
Speaker 1: think the jury's out. I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 1: I'm coming from a place of ignorance, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to enjoy that ignorance. You know, ignorance is bliss. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be pretty happy about this for the moment,
Speaker 1: because I don't know much. This idea of like the
Speaker 1: grand unification theory of the paranormal where some people instead
Speaker 1: of ghosts and demons and this and that's and whatever,
Speaker 1: they just refer to it as the phenomenon. What do
Speaker 1: you think about that? Or is that boiling it down
Speaker 1: too much? And maybe disrespecting certain aspects of these other phenomenon. Well,
Speaker 1: I can see that element of it, but I also
Speaker 1: see the fact that if we just accept it as
Speaker 1: one thing, that it becomes less ominous. Because look, I
Speaker 1: can sit here and talk to you about ghosts.
Speaker 2: And demons, because I've encountered things that I would put
Speaker 2: into those categories. To me, the concept of this hairy, hominid,
Speaker 2: bipedal creature that could be nine to fourteen feet tall
Speaker 2: depending on who you speak to, that's there one second,
Speaker 2: go on the next. That would be an easy roll
Speaker 2: of the eyes and snicker right about you is actually
Speaker 2: believe this thing exists. But then I'm two seconds later
Speaker 2: talking about ghosts and demons, which to somebody else sounds ridiculous.
Speaker 2: So if we normalize it and take away the stigma
Speaker 2: of well, this is weird, that's not is the Fay
Speaker 2: folk Is that any less weird than Bigfoot? I don't
Speaker 2: think so, because it's gone back in culture, Like the
Speaker 2: indigenous tribes have talked about bigfoot and have seen them
Speaker 2: as you know, a fellow race of Indigenous people to
Speaker 2: a creature, to something almost godlike in some instances, that
Speaker 2: aliens kind of fit that same realm. Ghosts fit that
Speaker 2: same realm. So if we come together on one common
Speaker 2: ground and say this is phenomenon and this may all
Speaker 2: be tied together, it may be different, but at least
Speaker 2: we take the time to look at it. Because if
Speaker 2: you take out part of science, you take out you know,
Speaker 2: we're examining blood, but we don't want to look at
Speaker 2: platelets because platelets aren't our thing. We're all about, you know,
Speaker 2: white blood cells. Well, then you're missing a big part
Speaker 2: of the full, you know, spectrum of the picture. So
Speaker 2: I think that by having this kind of universal approach
Speaker 2: to look at this, I think that could be a
Speaker 2: healthier way for us all to examine it. Take it
Speaker 2: a little bit more seriously, and you know, the pegs
Speaker 2: will fall out for the weak links, for the things
Speaker 2: that don't make any sense.
Speaker 3: There's nothing word about the fayfolk though.
Speaker 1: Well, James Bobo Faye, there's something pretty weird about that one, right.
Speaker 2: But here's the old thing. I remember having this discussion
Speaker 2: with Rosemary Ellen Guiley. She was the Queen of the
Speaker 2: Nighttime World, another prolific author we lost a few years ago,
Speaker 2: and speaker and teacher, and she, uh, she kind of
Speaker 2: put me in my place one day because I was
Speaker 2: laughing about the fact she had a book about fairies
Speaker 2: coming out, and I'm like, oh my god, seriously, and
Speaker 2: she's like, why is that so stupid and funny to you?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, they're fairies, that's Disney stuff, and she goes, well, Dave,
Speaker 2: do you realize how many Disney movies have creatures and
Speaker 2: ghosts in them? Do you scoff at that because that's
Speaker 2: been represented in your shows? And I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 2: but that's different. How is that different? These stories predate
Speaker 2: ghost stories in some instances. They will look at the
Speaker 2: Faye and these elements beings as something that predate even Christianity,
Speaker 2: the Gin and many things that are referred to and
Speaker 2: referenced in the Bible that predate known man in history.
Speaker 2: It's really kind of compelling. And she gave me another
Speaker 2: way to look at it. She said, you'll look at
Speaker 2: Bigfoot and say, yeah, that that could be real. You'll
Speaker 2: look at ghosts and say, oh sure, and aliens of course,
Speaker 2: but the Fay, No, that can't be possible. She said,
Speaker 2: that's being ridiculous. There is something to that. People have this,
Speaker 2: you know, love and compassion and respect for it in
Speaker 2: other countries. And then I started reading news stories in
Speaker 2: the two thousands, not meaning that there's been over two
Speaker 2: thousand news stories, but I mean since the two thousands began,
Speaker 2: I have found new stories where multiple countries and cultures
Speaker 2: have diverted major roadways to avoid troll houses or fairy
Speaker 2: rings or fairy mounds or giant mounds because they don't
Speaker 2: want to disturb that culture, that be or set of beings.
Speaker 2: So there must be something to it that makes it
Speaker 2: much more real than we would give it credit to.
Speaker 2: So I I you know, I've learned to be open
Speaker 2: to all of it. I don't scoff at anything anymore,
Speaker 2: no matter how ludicrous it may sound to me, because
Speaker 2: just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: it isn't real. You know, there is a parallel of
Speaker 2: that in the Sasquatch world, even the flesh and blood
Speaker 2: Sasquatch world, you know where I tend to dwell, And
Speaker 2: it's that this idea of relati hominoids, you know, Harry
Speaker 2: hormanoids worldwide, because almost certainly like the iring Pendec, for example,
Speaker 2: is not the Sasquatch. It's a different species, but we
Speaker 2: don't know that jury's out about the yarn or the
Speaker 2: Yowie or even the Alma, that the alma has so
Speaker 2: many different characteristics. And then there is actually footprint evidence
Speaker 2: of the alma and it doesn't seem to be a sasquatch,
Speaker 2: but still, and the discovery of any of those would
Speaker 2: benefit the all of the others in that people would
Speaker 2: be more open to their possibility.
Speaker 1: So perhaps there's a that's a parallel of what you're
Speaker 1: actually describing, but in the unknown mystery ape world.
Speaker 2: Right And it's all fascinating and interesting that these cultures
Speaker 2: exist like this. And I'll tell you what. There are
Speaker 2: times where you can tell me your story and your experience.
Speaker 2: I don't have to believe it. And sometimes what I
Speaker 2: find more fascinating than anything is why you believe in
Speaker 2: these things. So that's part of the human element, is
Speaker 2: learning and exchanging of ideas and concepts and seeing what
Speaker 2: might make sense to you once you've heard somebody else's
Speaker 2: theology or belief system on it.
Speaker 1: Now, now, speaking of believing, I know you're very open
Speaker 1: to all sorts of things, but you believe sasquatches are real,
Speaker 1: right in some sort of way, Right now, is that
Speaker 1: based on an experience or is that because the evidence,
Speaker 1: or is that you've heard so many stories or what's
Speaker 1: going on there? Well listen like you guys, I grew
Speaker 1: up in the era of In Search of and I
Speaker 1: saw that footage when they started sharing it of the
Speaker 1: Patterson Gmelin film. I was also born in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: seven the same year, so that had a fascination for
Speaker 1: me right that that footage came out. So I always
Speaker 1: thought that was cool, But I didn't start taking notice
Speaker 1: of that until mid seventies when it was on TV
Speaker 1: all the time, and when I would go down to
Speaker 1: visit my grandparents in seventy four seventy five to Foley, Alabama.
Speaker 1: My grandparents owned forty acres of property and only about
Speaker 1: ten acres was livable. The rest was just wildness, right,
Speaker 1: and there were snakes and water moccas and snakes and
Speaker 1: alligators in the back because they had ponds and water
Speaker 1: streams back there, so it was it was not a
Speaker 1: safe place to be as a kid. But we used
Speaker 1: to go play in that area all the time, and
Speaker 1: one time my cousin and I were down by the pond,
Speaker 1: probably about nine ten o'clock in the morning fishing, and
Speaker 1: we just heard something big trumping around out there, and
Speaker 1: we kept looking at each other kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: you're here. I guess right, it's that safety in numbers.
Speaker 1: But it was big, whatever it was, and we could
Speaker 1: hear it stomping around. And then finally at the back
Speaker 1: of the pond there were these tall shrubs and bushes
Speaker 1: that maybe eight nine feet tall, and I see this
Speaker 1: hand come up over the top of the bush and
Speaker 1: it pushes the bush down, and now I can see
Speaker 1: from about the tip of the nose up of this
Speaker 1: being that I believe was a sasquatch, but it had
Speaker 1: a darker inset face. It had this kind of blackish
Speaker 1: gray mane, and the hair came up over its fingers
Speaker 1: like Chewbacca's hair. Right, It wasn't just like you would
Speaker 1: think of a gorilla. It was like long, drapy hair.
Speaker 1: And my cousin and I just literally my brain broke.
Speaker 1: We just stared at this thing and then looked at
Speaker 1: each other and turned back around and looked at this
Speaker 1: thing staring at us, and then we scooby dooded up
Speaker 1: the hill and half of the thing we're laughing about
Speaker 1: it is we're going to get up there and find
Speaker 1: out it's one of our idiot dads in a gorilla
Speaker 1: mask trying to freak us out. We get up to
Speaker 1: the house. Our dads are there, our cousins are there,
Speaker 1: our grandpas are there, our uncles are there. Everybody's accounted for,
Speaker 1: and we were so spun out by it that they
Speaker 1: all grabbed their rifles and went out into the woods looking.
Speaker 1: And at that time, nobody was thinking, go to the
Speaker 1: area where it stood and look at the ground. Are
Speaker 1: their footprints. I'm sure that there was regret because my
Speaker 1: uncle grew to love bigfoot stories, and I'm sure he
Speaker 1: always kind of kicked himself for never having gone to
Speaker 1: look at that space. But that was the perfect environment
Speaker 1: for something like this to live because ten acres is livable.
Speaker 1: It leaves you, you know, thirty acres of woodland area
Speaker 1: that nobody goes into really because of all of the
Speaker 1: other inherent dangers that are out there. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of a safety zone and safety buffer for whatever might
Speaker 1: be existing. And my grandparents saw UFO activity over their property. Again,
Speaker 1: here's a nexus point where here's a creature, here's alien UFO.
Speaker 1: Things that have been seen over their property. It's kind
Speaker 1: of telling again that in some of these places it
Speaker 1: just aligns properly.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, having had that experience as a child, it's
Speaker 2: always been niggling at the back of my head that
Speaker 2: I think I had a big foot sighting. Now I
Speaker 2: also am honest to the fact that I was ten
Speaker 2: eleven years old when it happened. It could have been
Speaker 2: a homeless man, big homeless guy wearing a tattered jacket,
Speaker 2: and I misunderstood what I saw, but it was so
Speaker 2: big and crunching around. My dad and uncle and grandfather
Speaker 2: used to go out hunting in part of the back
Speaker 2: of the woods and you could hear him walking and
Speaker 2: it was just a.
Speaker 3: This was like.
Speaker 2: When it was walking, it was with force, and you know,
Speaker 2: it just sounded different and big and loud. So that
Speaker 2: was really kind of an instigation for me to really
Speaker 2: be fascinated by bigfoot. And then the other part to
Speaker 2: me that I absolutely love is the fact that the
Speaker 2: Peterson Gimblin Bigfoot film to me is one of the
Speaker 2: coolest examples of this phenomenon because as time has progressed
Speaker 2: and we're able to stabilize the film, clear up the
Speaker 2: film and scientifically look at it. To me, it only
Speaker 2: gets better where I would have thought that with the
Speaker 2: abilities that we've got, it would have degraded the footage
Speaker 2: and made it look worse or made it so glaringly
Speaker 2: obvious that it was a costume. And I think that,
Speaker 2: And I don't know where you guys stand on this particularly,
Speaker 2: but that footage to me, still holds the test of time.
Speaker 2: Fifty six years later.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 1: Will be right back after these messages, and then who
Speaker 1: are your two detractors? And I'll get emails from your
Speaker 1: fans and listeners. It'll be like you're a moron and
Speaker 1: talking out of your ass. You don't know what you're discussing.
Speaker 1: It was a prank put on by Bob Huronymous and
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the costumer off the
Speaker 1: Philip Morris, and I actually had both of those gentlemen
Speaker 1: on my radio show and I talked to them about it,
Speaker 1: and they, oh, it was awesome we created the costume,
Speaker 1: and I said, okay. So in nineteen sixty seven, the
Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes came out That was cutting edge
Speaker 1: technology makeup with millions of dollars put into the work.
Speaker 1: There was two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey which
Speaker 1: opens with these bipedal Harry homitids that looked like crappy,
Speaker 1: long haired gorilla costumes.
Speaker 2: Really bad. The only other thing that was even close
Speaker 2: to looking realistic were the monkeys Mickey, Davey, Peter and
Speaker 2: Mike right the rest right, the rest of the costumes,
Speaker 2: and everything looked cartoonish. And that's I love the Planet
Speaker 2: of the Apes movies. But it still looked like a costume.
Speaker 2: So you mean to tell me that in nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: seven you created a costume out of an old gorilla
Speaker 2: costume and football pads that stands the test of time
Speaker 2: today that we can actually see muscle structure in the calves,
Speaker 2: the thighs, and the back as it's walking away. And
Speaker 2: when they gave you the opportunity to recreate this in
Speaker 2: the early two thousands, or maybe it was a late nineties,
Speaker 2: they gave them the ability to recreate a costume with
Speaker 2: the new technology that exists. Their costume looked junkier than
Speaker 2: something my kids could have put together. And that was
Speaker 2: a professional costumer.
Speaker 1: What was the response to that, Because I'd never spoken
Speaker 1: to either of those men.
Speaker 2: Philip Morris just well, no, yeah, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: that was like at the top of the line costume
Speaker 2: back in the day. And Brob, I said, right, But
Speaker 2: the fact that you could not reproduce it forty years
Speaker 2: later with new technology and better costumes, because the Jacklink's
Speaker 2: bigfoot has been around now for what twenty years, and
Speaker 2: that costume and footage is amazing. You couldn't even get
Speaker 2: close to that with the schlocky costume that you put
Speaker 2: together and had heronomous walking around in. And they, you know,
Speaker 2: I was very polite throughout the conversation, but I pushed
Speaker 2: on these points and they couldn't give me an answer
Speaker 2: I felt was real. I felt it was all very
Speaker 2: disingenuous and to what end. I don't understand why disavow
Speaker 2: it unless they felt like they got cut out of something.
Speaker 2: And as far as I understand, there wasn't a lot
Speaker 2: of money that was made, and really the only one
Speaker 2: that really made the money was Patterson on the footage,
Speaker 2: and I don't even know that that's a reality. Maybe
Speaker 2: you guys can answer that element for me.
Speaker 1: He made some money, yeah, he and al Viatley made money,
Speaker 1: but they cut Bob out of it. Bob never really
Speaker 1: made anything out of it. In fact, Bob told me
Speaker 1: he sold all rights to his one third share of
Speaker 1: the film or Reneeda Hinden, for one dollar because he
Speaker 1: was so tired of being called a liar, and you know,
Speaker 1: almost broke up his marriage and ruined his life in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But he made enough money that
Speaker 1: he went to Indonesia on a wild goose chase because
Speaker 1: he received a letter saying that they had a live
Speaker 1: sasquatch like creature in a in an Indonesian monastery. And
Speaker 1: he spent his money that he earned by taking it
Speaker 1: on tour and going to places like the Spokane Colisseum
Speaker 1: and the Portland Coliseum and whatever else. He spent all
Speaker 1: that money on a trip to Indonesia on a wild
Speaker 1: goose chase.
Speaker 2: Wasn't that they believed that.
Speaker 1: They had like the top of the skull, No, No,
Speaker 1: that you're thinking of the Pingbolch skull in the Pingbolcha hand,
Speaker 1: which is in the Himalayas a little bit different. They
Speaker 1: said they had a live sasquatch in a cage. And
Speaker 1: in fact, a number of years ago, a gentleman who
Speaker 1: at the time was an anthropology student in eastern Washington,
Speaker 1: I believe, contacted me and said that he was the
Speaker 1: guy that Roger kind of lined up to pull some
Speaker 1: shenanigans if they had to, because he was going to
Speaker 1: go try to buy the sasquatch from the monks at
Speaker 1: the monastery, but if things went sideways, he was willing
Speaker 1: to steal it, and he had an anthropologist on hand
Speaker 1: to help him with it if in case it ever
Speaker 1: went that far. But it never did or anything, so
Speaker 1: there was no nothing illegal going on, but apparently he
Speaker 1: sure thought about it. So that seems like an awfully
Speaker 1: weird thing to do if you're if you you know,
Speaker 1: put somebody in a suit and filmed it. And he
Speaker 1: died in basically poverty, in like what seventy two, seventy
Speaker 1: three I think it was seventy three. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he died thinking that with more money he could probably
Speaker 1: cure himself of the Hodgskins disease that killed him. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate but weird behavior for someone who easily hoaxed
Speaker 1: such a great and compelling piece of footage.
Speaker 2: Well, and then the problem, you know, in all of
Speaker 2: our industries is there's got to be some at Barnum
Speaker 2: Jack Wad out there, who's got to do things that
Speaker 2: really cast a pall over what we're trying to look
Speaker 2: at and accomplish. And you know, you know, those are
Speaker 2: things that have put a deep blemish on the fascination
Speaker 2: for a lot of people. They just expected all to
Speaker 2: be hokum and nonsense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really gives the subject a black eye where
Speaker 1: people hear about these hoaxes or these twisted tails and
Speaker 1: they think there's nothing there. There's because the cool stuff,
Speaker 1: the subtle slow erosion into the truth, you know, into
Speaker 1: the truth, not of the truth. You know, this this
Speaker 1: this erosion of ignorance as we learn more and more
Speaker 1: about the animals themselves. That stuff isn't flashy, it's not sexy,
Speaker 1: and that stuff doesn't get any play on the media.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately because of it, you know, we have we had
Speaker 1: trouble with our TV show for the same reason. You know,
Speaker 1: it had to be you know, flashy and cool and
Speaker 1: had to hook people because you got to get them
Speaker 1: around for that commercial break. I mean, I I think
Speaker 1: Bobo go to to test to this. I've got I
Speaker 1: got hundreds of emails from people saying you're doing this
Speaker 1: all wrong, you're banging on trees making noise. Nope, your
Speaker 1: guys are jackasses. You should go sit in a tree
Speaker 1: stand and blow descent and be quiet and thinking, well,
Speaker 1: that's horrible, horrible television. First of all, no one's ever
Speaker 1: going to watch that. But you know, at the same time,
Speaker 1: like I've been pretty successful the last couple of years
Speaker 1: of this bigfoot thing, gathering all sorts of interesting evidence
Speaker 1: and information. But a walk on a road during the
Speaker 1: day where one out of five times, one out of
Speaker 1: eight times you go, you find something cool that's not sexy,
Speaker 1: that's just time spent in the woods, and the media
Speaker 1: just doesn't care. But they sure like when some jackass
Speaker 1: dresses up in a monkey suit and waves at a train, right.
Speaker 1: But again, even in those elements, there's something that's a
Speaker 1: good takeaway. Like I was just like everybody, I kind
Speaker 1: of bought into that, and I was like, that's cool footage.
Speaker 1: But what I found even more compelling about it is
Speaker 1: here you've got something that people could say, there's no
Speaker 1: way a bigfoot could be there one second and gone
Speaker 1: the next. From that footage, when that guy crouches down
Speaker 1: into kind of the fetal position, he just becomes part
Speaker 1: of the bushes. If you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have even noticed that there was a guy out there
Speaker 1: dressed in a gorilla suit. So if that's possible, why
Speaker 1: couldn't an actual creature that's used to these areas and
Speaker 1: adaptable have evolved in a way that they could be
Speaker 1: standing right there and you never notice because of the
Speaker 1: way that they hide themselves and blend into their surroundings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that suit is actually commercially available, and it's pretty yellow.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a golden yellow brown color. And I
Speaker 1: know that that Colorado train footage thing that we're talking about,
Speaker 1: that like the dead grass and stuff that it was,
Speaker 1: that's kind of a similar color a Sasquatches, for the
Speaker 1: most part, are darker in color, you know, not not always,
Speaker 1: but darker in color. They are the color of the woods,
Speaker 1: just like pretty much every other animal that lives in
Speaker 1: the woods of great interest, and certainly they are very
Speaker 1: very good at what they do, and most of the
Speaker 1: time when they are seen, the first thing they do
Speaker 1: is stand completely still. You can wear turquoise in the
Speaker 1: woods and at two hundred yards stand completely still and
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to be seen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's what I think is so astounding about this.
Speaker 2: And I've seen some of these beautiful documentaries that have
Speaker 2: been made showing the adaptability of so many different wildlife species,
Speaker 2: of how easily they can blend in and how their
Speaker 2: bodies have learned to fool nature itself. Right, There's a
Speaker 2: snake whose tongue looks like a bug flying around, so
Speaker 2: when a bird comes down to get it, the snake
Speaker 2: can get the bird. Right. That shows the adaptability and
Speaker 2: just how brilliant nature is. So if a snake can
Speaker 2: make itself look like a bug for you know, something
Speaker 2: to eat, and all of these other animals have got
Speaker 2: these ways of just adapting. The cuddlefish that becomes translucent,
Speaker 2: octopus that can change multiple colors and kind of fade
Speaker 2: into any kind of obscure background. That's really remarkable.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I know it's a big foot show, but I gotta
Speaker 3: ask you. You said you've experienced demons in person.
Speaker 2: I'm very cautious with using that. I have been in
Speaker 2: a few instances where I believe that the person I'm
Speaker 2: dealing with may be possessed or at least dealing with
Speaker 2: an oppression of something more malevolent because of the abilities
Speaker 2: and things that are going on around that person, and
Speaker 2: it has been very frightening. I can't say that, you know,
Speaker 2: like I go and I see Bobo and Cliff standing there.
Speaker 2: I've never had that experience where I just go and
Speaker 2: there's a demon. But I've been in that situation twice
Speaker 2: and it has been very disarming. Nothing like it ever
Speaker 2: when I've been to, you know, actual hauntings. I think
Speaker 2: it is so few and far between true demonic possession
Speaker 2: or demonic realm existing in some of these locations. I
Speaker 2: just think a lot of it is people's perceptions or
Speaker 2: fear levels. Like you guys have no problem tramping around
Speaker 2: in the woods even though there's bear and coyote and
Speaker 2: wildcats and mountain lions out there. You're out there protecting yourself,
Speaker 2: but you're still putting yourself in harm's way. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do that right. That to me sounds crazy. I'm more
Speaker 2: afraid of being eaten by something that we know exists
Speaker 2: in my search to find something we're kind of sure exists,
Speaker 2: So to me, that's a different deal. But like with
Speaker 2: the paranormal, I know ghosts exist. I can't tell you
Speaker 2: what they are, but I don't run into the demonic
Speaker 2: realm that often. That is such a very limited slice
Speaker 2: of the pie. And I've talked to people that have
Speaker 2: been terrified, and I'll tell your audience this is one
Speaker 2: of my favorite stories. This woman reached out to me.
Speaker 2: She goes, I had this paranormal team come in. They
Speaker 2: were here fifteen minutes and left and they shared the
Speaker 2: EVP with me, and they told me on their way out,
Speaker 2: we have a demon and that they're not capable of
Speaker 2: dealing with this. And I said, well, what was the
Speaker 2: EVP the electronic voice phenomenon recording, and she played it
Speaker 2: for me and you hear them talking in the background.
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, we're going to shut up our equipment.
Speaker 2: And then you hear which sounds like somebody's stomach making
Speaker 2: a noise.
Speaker 1: And that was it.
Speaker 2: Maybe that was haunted by a frog, right. I said
Speaker 2: that that was the demonic growl, and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: And I said, well, what brought them to your house?
Speaker 2: She goes, well, I have this wall with all my
Speaker 2: collector's plates on it, and right in the middle was
Speaker 2: my great grandmother's plate and I was sitting here in
Speaker 2: the day and it flew off the wall and broke.
Speaker 2: I said, Okay, did it make like a pentagram pattern
Speaker 2: on the floor? No? Did it make like a six
Speaker 2: sixty six with the broken shards?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Did the shards jump in the air and try to
Speaker 2: impale you against the wall? No, that's stupid. And I said, so,
Speaker 2: why do you believe it was a demon? Well, it
Speaker 2: was my great grandmother's plate. And I said, so do
Speaker 2: you think today? Just go with me on this, do
Speaker 2: you think that during roll call in Hell today, as
Speaker 2: lucifers before his army, he says, all right, you bobo,
Speaker 2: go out and start a war in the Middle East. Cliff,
Speaker 2: I want you to go raise oil prices, and Dave
Speaker 2: go break great grandma's plate. And she laughed, and I said,
Speaker 2: do you realize the absurdity of that? Do you think that?
Speaker 2: Is that like Satan's kind of off nephew, And that's
Speaker 2: the only job you can trust him with. And we
Speaker 2: talked about it, and I said, just out of curiosity,
Speaker 2: where did your great grandmother get it? She goes, she
Speaker 2: got it from her mother in law when they got married.
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, what was their relationship like? Oh,
Speaker 2: they hated each other. I said, So could it be
Speaker 2: that great grandma came to visit you and saw that
Speaker 2: plate up there and knocked it off the wall once
Speaker 2: and for all to be done with it. And she laughed,
Speaker 2: She goes, That's exactly what my great grandmother would have
Speaker 2: been like.
Speaker 3: I got to ask you. You said, did the pieces
Speaker 3: come flying? Have you talked to people that have had
Speaker 3: that happen, like stuff break and then fly out them
Speaker 3: and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had people make some pretty remarkable claims, and
Speaker 2: I have not seen that myself where things have leapt
Speaker 2: up and flown. I've seen things move slowly from one
Speaker 2: room to another, or I've been there and listen, guys,
Speaker 2: I'm a skeptical believer. I've had experiences my whole life.
Speaker 2: But I questioned them constantly.
Speaker 3: Do you believe any of the people that told you
Speaker 3: the stories? Those stories?
Speaker 2: I like, yeah, yeah, Again, it's hard not to because
Speaker 2: it's their story and I wasn't there, and I don't
Speaker 2: want to be cruel to them if this is something
Speaker 2: that happened. But on the Holser files, I got knocked
Speaker 2: on my tail two or three times by an unseen force.
Speaker 2: And had you asked me a day before I filmed
Speaker 2: that first episode. If I believe that was possible, I
Speaker 2: would have told you there's no way on God's green
Speaker 2: Earth that's possible. That's that shtick. That's Hollywood nonsense. And
Speaker 2: when I got knocked on my ass in the Holser
Speaker 2: Files first episode at Whaleyhouse, you guys have been around
Speaker 2: camera guys in dark, right, They're trying to get around
Speaker 2: you to get a good shot, and they're tripping over
Speaker 2: logs or whatever. I just assumed that one of the
Speaker 2: camera guys had come around behind me in this pitch
Speaker 2: black and tripped on the carpet and fell into me.
Speaker 2: Because it was that heavy, it felt like something hit me,
Speaker 2: like it was falling into me. And when you watch
Speaker 2: the episode and I turn around, my brain just can't
Speaker 2: figure out what I'm not seeing. There should have been
Speaker 2: something there. I got hit hard and I can't wrap
Speaker 2: my head around it.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: Do I believe it was a demon?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Do I think it was a pissed off ghost? Yes?
Speaker 2: Do I understand why it was so pissed off? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do believe I know why it was. You know,
Speaker 2: a spirit, a Mexican spirit that had been kind of
Speaker 2: a hero to his own people. And he was coming
Speaker 2: back into San Diego with his group to try to
Speaker 2: take back the land that had been stolen from them.
Speaker 2: And how were they treated. They were hung or forced
Speaker 2: to dig their own graves and then stand in front
Speaker 2: of the grave while they were shot to death. So
Speaker 2: I think that we uncover the story of this ghost
Speaker 2: and why it's there, and give it a voice again
Speaker 2: and help people have a name to connect to the history.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it stops, it stops being that way it
Speaker 2: could have been. I could have jumped to the conclusion
Speaker 2: of demon very easily. And I was so lucky to
Speaker 2: have a great production team that never once asked us
Speaker 2: to say anything was a demon. They would ask, is
Speaker 2: there any chance that's demonic? And then we would debate
Speaker 2: it on camera, and then when we would calm down
Speaker 2: and cooler heads would prevail, we'd often all, right, let's
Speaker 2: not assume it's a demon. Let's assume it's this ghost,
Speaker 2: and what can we do to help it. What's the
Speaker 2: next layer of this story? What do we have to
Speaker 2: do to help out? And so I come at it
Speaker 2: from a different point. I'm not walking in a place
Speaker 2: of fear all the time. That's something evil is trying
Speaker 2: to do me harm. I understand ghosts might just be
Speaker 2: an unsettled spirit if I elect to stay here and
Speaker 2: watch over my family after I die in spirit form,
Speaker 2: I'm a wise ass as a human. Why wouldn't I
Speaker 2: be a wise ass as a ghost? If somebody's afraid,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't I poke them? Why wouldn't I moment freak
Speaker 2: them out? Right? I think once you get past that,
Speaker 2: that's when that's when you start to have really interesting experiences.
Speaker 2: And that's what I live for now.
Speaker 1: Dave, we're kind of coming towards the end of our
Speaker 1: time here, but you have a new book that's out,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering how much of this stuff is in
Speaker 1: the book because the name of the book is Theater
Speaker 1: the Mind, Tales from the Darkness, ghosts, UFOs, aliens, monsters,
Speaker 1: and other strange stories of the supernatural. Like where are
Speaker 1: these stories coming from that you wrote down in this
Speaker 1: new book of yours? Like are we listening to some
Speaker 1: of them right now? Or just like this is like
Speaker 1: some sort of autobiographical thing, or tell us about the
Speaker 1: book because it's brand new.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: It's a brand new book that I just released here
Speaker 2: in January. The end part of January, and it's stories
Speaker 2: that people have sent to me through the years and
Speaker 2: shared with me to share with my audience, and a
Speaker 2: few of the stories are my own examples. One is
Speaker 2: a haunted doll that was given to me, and I
Speaker 2: share the story of why it was given to me,
Speaker 2: what unnerved the family so much that they demanded to
Speaker 2: get it out of its house, you know, get it
Speaker 2: out of their house. And then I had it for
Speaker 2: a number of years and had some weird experiences, and
Speaker 2: somebody else wanted it and they now are the owner
Speaker 2: of that strange doll. So I just tell the story
Speaker 2: and how it affected me. There's a story in there
Speaker 2: about my experience in a haunted hospital when I was
Speaker 2: there having my gallbladder removed. That story they actually featured
Speaker 2: on a TV show called Haunted Hospitals. They didn't tell
Speaker 2: the right story, but you know, it's a fun story
Speaker 2: to watch unfold on TV and then read the real story,
Speaker 2: which I think is creepier than what they they put out.
Speaker 2: But and then the rest of the stories are stories
Speaker 2: from people just like you and me that have been
Speaker 2: in the right place at the right time, or had
Speaker 2: an experience that they can't wrap their head around. Some
Speaker 2: of the people just want to remain anonymous and do
Speaker 2: not want their story associated with them because they are
Speaker 2: military or law enforcement, or even moms that just don't
Speaker 2: want their kids who love the paranormal listening to these
Speaker 2: shows to hear what their mom saw or dealt with.
Speaker 2: So I've shared those stories in ways that whoever says
Speaker 2: I can involve their names, I involve their names. For
Speaker 2: the people that ask me not to, I keep the
Speaker 2: names out of it, and I just clear up their punctuation,
Speaker 2: their grammar, flesh out the story a little bit, but
Speaker 2: it is exactly as they told me. And that's what
Speaker 2: we have to offer up for people. And this first
Speaker 2: book has I think fifteen or sixteen stories in it,
Speaker 2: everything from time slip phenomena to doppelgangers, changelings, this creature
Speaker 2: called the Bloody Bones Man that's terrifying the black eyed kids,
Speaker 2: ghosts and UFOs and aliens. So I didn't want the
Speaker 2: book to be pigeonholed as a ghost story book. It
Speaker 2: is a book that tells many different stories from many
Speaker 2: different walks of life and many different belief systems, and
Speaker 2: it's just these are stories I don't think should just
Speaker 2: lay in somebody's drawer. So I'm happy to put them
Speaker 2: out there. And the people that shared the stories with
Speaker 2: me all gave me permission. As a matter of fact.
Speaker 2: It's nice. I go on Amazon and look up my
Speaker 2: book Theater of the Mind Tales from the Darkness, and
Speaker 2: I've got, you know, over fifty reviews, and a few
Speaker 2: of those reviews are from the people whose story I
Speaker 2: represented in the book, and they were so pleased with
Speaker 2: the way the story came out and me telling their
Speaker 2: story in a respectful way and keeping their you know, sanctity.
Speaker 3: Didn't that black eyed kids think kind of come and go.
Speaker 3: I really haven't heard much about that lately.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we pinpoint the first story to Brian
Speaker 2: Bethel in the late nineties who had an experience with it,
Speaker 2: and he was a reporter who actually went on the
Speaker 2: record sharing his experience, and then many people started talking
Speaker 2: about it. Once we pulled that bandage off, other people
Speaker 2: started relating stories. Now again, it's a great story that
Speaker 2: fits into the realm of urban legend. But unlike urban
Speaker 2: legend stories, which always happened to a friend of a
Speaker 2: friend of a friend, and it was passed along. Brian
Speaker 2: Bethel was the guy, and he tells you his story.
Speaker 1: That could be wrong. What wasn't that original originally from Portland, Orgon?
Speaker 2: I can't remember where Brian's from, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife got interested in that. My wife's and
Speaker 1: all sorts of weird things, you know, like paranormal stuff.
Speaker 1: So she got interested in that, and she looked it
Speaker 1: up and she apparently, well, if it didn't come from Portland, Oregon,
Speaker 1: you can actually find out where something like that happened
Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon, like the cross Streets where that happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he explains it in his article, So you
Speaker 2: can look up Brian Bethel and Black Eyed Children and
Speaker 2: you know, read his story as he tells it. So
Speaker 2: I've had people share their stories, and again, they're really weird.
Speaker 2: They kind of fit in that demonic and vampiric legend
Speaker 2: and lore of they want you to follow them somewhere,
Speaker 2: or they need your permission to enter your car or
Speaker 2: your home, and they get very angry when you don't
Speaker 2: allow them in. So it's an interesting element. And I've
Speaker 2: heard so many different variations of these stories. You know,
Speaker 2: if you'd like, I'll tell you when that happened here
Speaker 2: in Minnesota. That is one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, sure, it's a good way to end
Speaker 1: the podcast here. Yeah, absolutely do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is not in the book, but it's
Speaker 2: one of the stories I'll probably put in a future
Speaker 2: book because I love it. We had talked about the
Speaker 2: black Eyed kids. I had this great couple. They were
Speaker 2: an elderly couple who listened to my radio show. We
Speaker 2: were on ten o'clock till midnight every night, Monday through Friday.
Speaker 2: And she contacted me. She goes, you know, after you
Speaker 2: did that black Eyed Kid's story, I've got to tell
Speaker 2: you what happened to my husband and I. And this
Speaker 2: was a few years ago. We had all that rain.
Speaker 2: Remember it just was like two weeks of rain. Dave.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, she goes, well, we were diligent listeners.
Speaker 2: We would watch the news from nine to ten, turn
Speaker 2: off the news, go into bed, turn on the radio,
Speaker 2: and fall asleep listening to your radio show. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: that's great. And she goes in this one night we
Speaker 2: turn off the TV and we can hear what sounds
Speaker 2: like kids running around out in our front yard playing
Speaker 2: in the puddles and playing in the rain. And my
Speaker 2: husband went over and he looked through the blinds and
Speaker 2: he's like, God, what's going on. Where are these screwy kids?
Speaker 2: And she said, honey, listen, it's been raining NonStop. The
Speaker 2: parents probably just let the kids run around to burn
Speaker 2: off some energy. We used to play in the rain. Okay,
Speaker 2: they go to bed, that's it. About three o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning, she wakes up and her husband sleeps with
Speaker 2: his back to the wall. She's sleeping closer to the door,
Speaker 2: and she wakes up and there are three children standing
Speaker 2: inside the room. There's a girl in the middle and
Speaker 2: two boys flanking her, and she can see them from
Speaker 2: the light that's in the room. They have jet black eyes.
Speaker 2: She says, Dave, I closed my eyes. I took a
Speaker 2: deep breath because I'm a good listener. I'm a good
Speaker 2: student of the paranormal. And we know that in those
Speaker 2: moments that hypnagoga hypnopompic states of when we're going into
Speaker 2: sleep or coming out of them, we can have these
Speaker 2: hallucinatory moments where dreams and reality come together. And maybe
Speaker 2: I was dreaming about children and this is just a
Speaker 2: layer of it. So I closed my eyes. I took
Speaker 2: a couple of cleansing breaths, and I opened my eyes
Speaker 2: and they were still standing there, and I started to
Speaker 2: reach to my husband and I opened my mouth to scream,
Speaker 2: and the little girl in the middle step forward, pressing
Speaker 2: her finger to her lips. She said, ssh, we just
Speaker 2: want to look at you. Oh right, she scream shakes
Speaker 2: her husband. He gets up. They go through the entire house,
Speaker 2: turning on every light in the entire house and that's great, husband, right,
Speaker 2: He gets up with her to go find out what's
Speaker 2: going on. They cuddled in bed, lights burning in the
Speaker 2: house until morning time, and that's when they heard the
Speaker 2: sound of kids laughter outside again, and it just unnerved
Speaker 2: and freaked them out. But my favorite part of the story.
Speaker 2: First of all, that was a weird, bone chilling tale,
Speaker 2: But my favorite part was a couple nights later after
Speaker 2: we share that story, I go down from our radio
Speaker 2: station into the parking ramp and there's a cop car
Speaker 2: park behind my car and he goes, are you Dave Schrader,
Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah, with Darkness Radio, I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, we got to tell you big fans
Speaker 2: of the show all the night crews on EMTs, firefighters
Speaker 2: and police love your stuff. We don't believe it. It's insane,
Speaker 2: but it's fun to listen to, and you know, you
Speaker 2: get great stories on there. But the other night you
Speaker 2: told that story about the three black eyed kids in
Speaker 2: that woman's room here in Minnesota, and it was about
Speaker 2: eleven forty five. You told the story and then went
Speaker 2: to commercial break, And you go to commercial break, and
Speaker 2: my partner and I start laughing about how absurd and
Speaker 2: stupid this is. When we get a call over the
Speaker 2: radio that an elderly woman is calling to complain that
Speaker 2: there are three children in her front yard at eleven
Speaker 2: forty five at night that she doesn't know and they
Speaker 2: won't leave. And he said, and I looked at my
Speaker 2: partner and he looked at me, and we shook our
Speaker 2: head and turned the radio off and said, screw that,
Speaker 2: we're not going. So I love the fact that the
Speaker 2: cops were so unnerved by the story they wouldn't even
Speaker 2: go out to investigate what was happening.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. That is just fantastic. And I know you
Speaker 1: said that story is not in your book, but you
Speaker 1: also commented briefly saying this first book is blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, Dude, with a lifetime of
Speaker 1: experience and listening to people like you have, there could
Speaker 1: be endless numbers of these books. And if you can
Speaker 1: write half as well as you speak, man, I'm going
Speaker 1: to read every single one. That's fantastic.
Speaker 2: Well I've got I'm hoping to have the second book
Speaker 2: out around June or July this year and then maybe
Speaker 2: get the third volume out by Halloween. And I'd like
Speaker 2: to put out these books and with the stories that
Speaker 2: people share. So if your listeners have strange experiences with
Speaker 2: Bigfoot or choopacabra, or aliens, or ghosts or weijahboards psychic phenomena,
Speaker 2: they can email me Dave at Paranormal sixty dot com.
Speaker 2: That's Dave at Paranormal six zero dot com and let
Speaker 2: me know if I can share your story. We might
Speaker 2: reach out to you in the future a share it
Speaker 2: on the radio show The Paranormal sixty, or it may
Speaker 2: be included an upcoming volume of one of the books
Speaker 2: that we put out. And again, my job is not
Speaker 2: to prove or disprove any of these stories. My job
Speaker 2: as a curator to share the stories that people have
Speaker 2: had happen. And the reason that I've taken that tack
Speaker 2: is that there have been some of the stories I've
Speaker 2: heard that are easy to make you roll your eyes at,
Speaker 2: and then we've shared them on the air, and I've
Speaker 2: received emails and phone calls from listeners saying, Dave, I
Speaker 2: want you to know that I've had a very weird
Speaker 2: life and I had an experience identical to that with
Speaker 2: the exact same creature, and I thought I was insane.
Speaker 2: Now that I know I'm not alone, I feel so
Speaker 2: much better that somebody else has seen what I saw.
Speaker 2: So I've removed all judgment and just share the stories
Speaker 2: as they're given to me because I think they're fascinating,
Speaker 2: interesting looks into the human psyche and belief system that
Speaker 2: is fantastic.
Speaker 1: And this is the kind of stuff that you get
Speaker 1: on the Paranormal sixty podcast as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're live Mondays and Wednesdays on YouTube, so you
Speaker 2: can watch the Paranormal sixty Live where I'll talk to
Speaker 2: my guests and it's a video interview. And then the
Speaker 2: audios released Tuesday to all platforms, So I have a
Speaker 2: little Paranormal sixty podcast kind of network that has five
Speaker 2: different shows. Monday, if you tune into the audio version,
Speaker 2: you get New England Legends with Ray Auger and Jeff Balanger.
Speaker 2: Tuesday you get the Paranormal sixty. Wednesday Monsters Lounge with
Speaker 2: my friends Tresa and Jenny. Thursday you get the Paranormal
Speaker 2: sixty News and then Friday we've got True Hauntings, which
Speaker 2: is a show that comes out of Australia. These two
Speaker 2: amazing ladies that kind of look at at paranormal stories,
Speaker 2: de evolve them, try to understand them and weigh in
Speaker 2: on if they think that, after what they've read and
Speaker 2: the proof that's been presented, is it a real haunting
Speaker 2: or not. So we wanted to make a network where
Speaker 2: it was safe to come no matter what your beliefs
Speaker 2: or interests are. And there are stories for everybody.
Speaker 1: And of course your book is now. You can get
Speaker 1: on Amazon if you want, but there's a better place
Speaker 1: to get it because from I under sand Dave will
Speaker 1: sign it for you if you get it from a website,
Speaker 1: where is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Now for people listening around the world, I can't
Speaker 2: ship it out. The books are crazy. To send a
Speaker 2: book to another country, it costs more than the book
Speaker 2: would have caused to buy it, so you're better off
Speaker 2: buying it directly from Amazon. But if you're in the
Speaker 2: United States and would like a signed copy, just go
Speaker 2: to Paranormal sixty dot com. That's Paranormal six zero dot
Speaker 2: com and on that front page just scroll down you'll
Speaker 2: see the place where you can order either a signed
Speaker 2: or an unsigned copy of the book. As soon as
Speaker 2: I get the order, I sign them and send them
Speaker 2: out that day, so that's available, and I hope that
Speaker 2: your listeners will come along on my journey and enjoy
Speaker 2: what we have to share as well.
Speaker 1: Well. I'm looking forward to digging into your book for sure.
Speaker 1: It's been a delight to speak to you, David. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the podcast. I sincerely
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And when these other books hit the shelves too,
Speaker 1: let me know love to have you back on because
Speaker 1: you're just a pleasure to speak to.
Speaker 2: And guys, let me tell you this from the bottom
Speaker 2: of my heart, thank you for the work that you
Speaker 2: do and for both being so accessible to your fans
Speaker 2: and to people that have an interest in this field,
Speaker 2: because that makes the world a little smaller and it
Speaker 2: makes people feel more like a part of something that
Speaker 2: we can share these experiences, have these experiences and know
Speaker 2: that there are people like you that are entertaining, educational,
Speaker 2: and informative. So thank you guys for what you do
Speaker 2: and for doing this amazing show as well.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, thank you too, Dave. It's good talking to
Speaker 3: you again. We appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2: I'll hopefully talk to both of you again soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 4: All right, folks, Well, thanks a lot for Dais Shrader
Speaker 4: coming out and talk on us today. Hope you all
Speaker 4: enjoined as much as we did. And until next week,
Speaker 4: you guys know what to do. Keep it squatchy.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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