WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:04.280 Guys. I always think, how much of my mind is 2 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:07.120 located in this space of like, but what about this 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:13.240 and this and this? Today that mind is in some 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:17.120 ways on display because I invited Jay Dyer to come on, 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.559 who's not only really good at debate, but he's also 6 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:29.160 a kind of mind that captures ideas and then sort 7 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.840 of fortifies them and then gives them back to us 8 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:36.200 in ways that you have to think about. He's not 9 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.240 always beloved for this, He's not always beloved for his debates. 10 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.840 He's not always beloved by all aspects of culture. But 11 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:46.000 I think today we have a good talk about why 12 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:49.799 that is, why that might be true, or why that 13 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.600 might be false, and we get into the litometer and 14 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:58.920 we talk about the role of humor in life and 15 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:03.320 how one should go about addressing those with whom they 16 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:11.560 speak on heavy things. Not mean Jay Dyer. My phone's 17 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:16.400 not going to start ringing if I talked to Andrew Jay, 18 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.599 if he's our editor guy, he's out there doing the 19 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:24.840 thing with us. I got jaydyar here. It's been a while. 20 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.159 I've always thought about having you come on here. Man. 21 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:29.159 How you doing. I'm doing great. 22 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:33.280 You were at my wedding, so I'm glad to reconnect 23 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.719 and should have this conversation with it. 24 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:37.719 We said it. I don't know if you remember, we 25 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:39.920 sat at the table. Everything he just happened in your life. 26 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:43.599 You had this, you know, this event of wonder and 27 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.519 then we sat at the table and like a bunch 28 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:48.680 of like twenty two year old author bros. Started talking 29 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:54.239 about like some theological moment. It was hilarious. I was like, Oh, 30 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:57.280 this is what Jay, this is Jay's life, even. 31 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.680 At his wedding, Even as wedding you get a bunch 32 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.719 of questions about essence centergization. And I think there was 33 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:09.159 even like atheist relatives later that night trying to you know, argue. 34 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:11.000 Trying to rape it out with it, trying to be 35 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:17.199 atheist so bright the way that was kind of COVID associate. 36 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:19.919 I think it was. It was COVID, wasn't it. Oh yeah, 37 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:20.240 it was. 38 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.000 It was right in the middle of it right, maybe 39 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.280 even write at beginning. 40 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.719 But we don't we don't know each other like besties. 41 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.319 But it was nice. My wife basically was closer I 42 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.000 think closer with your with your wife, and so they 43 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:37.080 I got pulled in and it was wonderful. I'm I'm 44 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:38.120 blessed to have been there. 45 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.479 Bro, that's right, because they were. Yeah, they were at 46 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:41.800 the same parish for a good while. 47 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:46.039 Yeah. Yeah, So talk to me about this. So what 48 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.120 we do on this part is try to figure out, like, 49 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.879 aren't there some lessons from before the Enlightenment that we 50 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:54.960 should actually be paying attention to? Uh? And how does 51 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.759 that work? So what's the Enlightenment to you? Because you 52 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:03.719 wrote like an enlightened guy, I mean, you're using rational 53 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.120 arguments to try to help people understand things. So what 54 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.240 is the Enlightenment to How do you see it? Well? 55 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:13.080 I think the best way to describe it would be 56 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.759 the excesses that you see with the French revolutionaries, who, 57 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:23.159 for example, make and make reason into a goddess. And 58 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:27.319 I don't think they actually thought it was an actual entity, 59 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:33.840 but reason became the new deity of that time, and 60 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:36.639 that led to a lot of bloodshed, a lot of revolutions. 61 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:40.719 You know, after the Enlightenment you get the Voltaire and 62 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:43.919 the philosophs. So I think that reason as a tool, 63 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.960 it's a faculty that can be used because you know, 64 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:52.319 in Christology, for example, Jesus has a rational soul that 65 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.919 means he has as part of his human nature the 66 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:00.199 faculty of reasoning, and that was declared early on, even 67 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.080 against the Apollinarians, that if you denied that rational aspect 68 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.240 of christ soul and replaced it with the divine person 69 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:09.439 of the logos, that was a heresy because it was 70 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.960 detracting from him assuming a full human nature. So Christ 71 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.920 heals and restores the faculty of reasoning, just like all 72 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.519 of our other faculties, our will, our body, et cetera, 73 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:22.680 and so our mind. 74 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:25.240 And so I've always seen it as a tool. 75 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.360 Definitely, the Enlightenment and Protestant Reformation exalted it out of 76 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.360 its due place. But you know, even some of the 77 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:37.800 most quote mystical of the Orthodox Saints, like said Gregor Palamos, 78 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.199 he wrote apidictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit, and APPDICTI 79 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.680 refers to Aristocean logic. So he utilizes the risktrain logic 80 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:50.639 to disprove the Filioquist position. So you know, in his 81 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:55.079 mind there was certainly no natural antipathy between theology and 82 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:56.079 the faculty of reasoning. 83 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:57.079 It just can't be. 84 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.439 Put in this, you know, goddess position. 85 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:03.720 Here's an idea that I keep having, you know, as 86 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.439 a history guy. On some level, I studied it and 87 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.439 as a as a graduate student. Maybe it's that they're 88 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:16.639 anti Christ thing they're substituting it. If the pre supposition 89 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:20.000 is that Christ is God, then't reason kind of makes 90 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.560 sense as you go and stretch it out right into 91 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:27.199 an argument. But I feel like there was a substitutionary 92 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.240 thing going on with the enlightened philosophers. Would you agree 93 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.959 with that where there's substituting reason for Christ and someone. 94 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:40.759 Absolutely, I think there was genuine reaction, legitimate reaction against 95 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:45.199 the corruptions in the papal church and the Franco papal 96 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.680 system that people in the know pros and Reformation or 97 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.319 the Enlightenment saw as a problem. But they had bad solutions, 98 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:57.639 so they went to this opposite extreme and reacting against 99 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.279 the papacy and some of them, you know, when the 100 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.639 direction of Protestanism, someone went the direction of atheism and deism. 101 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:10.759 So yeah, logos theology, as you noted itself, is situated 102 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.000 within the milieu of the wisdom texts of the Old 103 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.240 Testament like Proverbs, Book of Wisdom, and so when John 104 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.480 talks about Jesus as the logos or the logic of God, 105 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:23.120 I don't saying he's equating him to logic. He's the 106 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.000 second person of the trinity. But there is an element 107 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.040 of logos logic or reason that goes along with that, 108 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.519 which is an appeal to the best elements of Hellenic 109 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.000 and Greek culture to try to convince them of the 110 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.319 deed of Christ and him being the son of God. 111 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:43.399 And again, you're absolutely right to replace logos the divine person, 112 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:47.360 and that truth is therefore ultimately located in a divine person, 113 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:51.680 with the human faculty of reasoning, which is a pale 114 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:59.000 reflection of divine logos, is absolutely a replacement idolatry. 115 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:04.120 Is that is that the problem with scientism? That's it, right, 116 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:07.439 I think that's what it is, right, That's the root 117 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:07.800 of it. 118 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:11.560 Scientism also has, i think few people know it, kind 119 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.680 of has a hermetic alchemical origin as well. If you 120 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.720 go back to the even some of the who we 121 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:24.319 think of as Enlightenment rationalist thinkers, they also were very 122 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:29.839 infected by a lot of esoteric cabalistic and so there 123 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.360 can even be a cabalistic element to scientism where that 124 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:38.480 dead matter comes alive and you know, you can go 125 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.720 within to find the principles of you know, the spark 126 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:45.040 of divinity within you, and that man is trying to 127 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:46.759 fix nature the you know. 128 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.959 Francis Banking man. So we're going to take a test. 129 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.319 It's our little test on here. It's called the letometer. 130 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:55.720 I want you to take it with me before we 131 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:59.199 hang up. So people who are are, We're gonna it's 132 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.600 just like five question. It's it's highly sack. It will 133 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.120 It'll affect you because for rest of your life now 134 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:08.639 you'll have this moniker hanging around. It'll tell you about 135 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.480 your actual being in a way that I'll ruin your life. 136 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.439 But just work, just work with it, Just work with it. 137 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:18.199 I promise it's coming, guys, it's coming, the lightermeter. But uh, 138 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.160 before we get there, do this with me. So how 139 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.800 do you how do you know yourself on the on 140 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.680 the on the media's on the on the interwebs, Like 141 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.560 are you an entertainer? Because I think you're attracting the 142 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:39.039 guys who liked that part that that that mystical part 143 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.039 of the earliest Enlightenment thing is we are like something's 144 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:44.559 off here, let's fix it. But they didn't know how 145 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.080 to do it. The guys I hear coming onto your 146 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:49.480 shows and listening and making comments on X and all 147 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:54.200 that stuff. I feel like they want something that's deeply 148 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:59.879 mystical and spiritual and alchemic, alchemically inclined, and I feel 149 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:02.399 like give it to them. But I don't think they 150 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:05.480 understand it. Sometimes I think they think you're doing some 151 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.240 fun stuff that's not Christick. I don't know, what do 152 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:11.840 you think about this class of guys that sort of 153 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.879 love your work? I would are they Christian or how 154 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.759 do you? How do you how do you categorize these characters. 155 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.559 I think we have a wide array now of people 156 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:27.159 who like what we talk about in niches, so there's 157 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.919 kind of different sectors. For example, when we do live events, 158 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.559 we can kind of see the you know, schematic breakdown 159 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.440 of this because we don't have huge live events, but 160 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:39.519 anywhere from one hundred and one hundred twenty people at 161 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.639 most of our live events, and you know, everybody always 162 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:44.120 kind of talks about what aspects of what we talk 163 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.080 about they're interested in. So some people are there. I 164 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.720 send the you know, I saw you on you know 165 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.759 Alex Alex's show. I really like what you talk about 166 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.000 with geopolitics, and then we get a faction of the 167 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.480 people that are like, oh, I really love all the 168 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:59.120 Hollywood stuff, because really a lot of what I started 169 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:03.320 blogging about was was movie analysis. Film analysis. It's about 170 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.399 like breakdowns of films, and I wasn't really even thinking 171 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.200 about talking about theology at the time. That actually happened 172 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:12.840 kind of accidentally. Somebody said, Hey, would you debate this 173 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.519 atheist guy. This is back in twenty seventeen, and he 174 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.320 was a pretty prominent atheist at that time, and then 175 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:20.960 that led to, oh, here's another atheist guy, when you 176 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:23.440 want to bate this other prominent atheist, and that kind 177 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.399 of snowballed into doing debates, which is not something I 178 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.879 really thought I would be doing on the internet. And 179 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:32.039 then that attracted its own kind of you know, crowd 180 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:34.360 of people who really really liked to see debates, and 181 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.639 the majority of that in the last six years ended 182 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:41.960 up focusing on debating prominent atheists and Muslims. 183 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:43.320 And I didn't know. 184 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.960 Much about Islam in twenty seventeen or even twenty eighteen, 185 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.519 and then I started to learn, you know, a good bit, 186 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.279 so that kind of just happened on its own. It 187 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.200 was again, it wasn't something planned, but I never stopped 188 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:58.000 doing the other things that we did, like the movie 189 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.879 analyses and writing the books on the hollywod would symbolic 190 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:07.240 breakdowns and you know, doing the geopolitical content. So kind 191 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:10.519 of what happened was I just sort of would introduce 192 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:14.480 more of my own interests into the public work that 193 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.840 we were doing, just to kind of test the waters. 194 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.000 And so that led to me kind of doing more 195 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.720 comedic stuff. I always wanted to do that, always had 196 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.679 that element of what we did, and I wanted to 197 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.159 lean more into that, and so that led to a 198 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.759 lot more openings in that realm. And then I think 199 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.399 what happens is that people see one aspect of what 200 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:36.840 I do and they kind of think, oh, he's that 201 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:38.919 guy that does this are aren't. 202 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:40.279 You the Hollywood guy? Or I thought you were the 203 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:42.519 debate guy. I know you as a debate guy for 204 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.039 whatever reason. That's how I know you. 205 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:49.120 Well, you know, I don't like to you know, I mean, 206 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:51.080 I think debate is interesting and it can be fun. 207 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.480 But I think probably people will think I like it 208 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:54.879 more than I actually do. 209 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.639 That's my question. Which one you got an hour You're 210 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.039 going to do some media and it's going to be 211 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.519 the hour you love the most. What are you doing 212 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.960 in that hour? I've had the most. 213 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:14.279 Fun in the last ten years on the big comedian 214 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.679 podcast that we've been on, which is two or three 215 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:24.440 of those, and you know, doing the geopolitical breakdowns, those 216 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.240 are the most fun. 217 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.279 I y I enjoyed the most. 218 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.399 I have to admit, like you know, when it's if 219 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.039 it's if it's a huge Muslim debate, those have been 220 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.320 really Like we did we debated the two of the 221 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:43.200 top Muslims on a huge outlet a few months ago 222 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.759 as me and Sam schmun and we debated Daniel Hikikachu 223 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.399 and e Jaws on freshen Fit podcast and that got 224 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.720 three four million views, So that that was enjoyable to 225 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.639 be able to speak to that many people. But it 226 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:00.320 wasn't the most fun debate because a lot of times 227 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:03.799 debates that kind of become really repetitive. It's all it's 228 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.039 the same stuff over and over and over. And if you've 229 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:09.960 been doing debates since college like I have, like you're 230 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.080 pretty much going to be hearing the same arguments over 231 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:15.320 over and over. So I really enjoy the creativity, you know, 232 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.320 comedic side of there's a lot more than just here 233 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:19.600 you know. 234 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:27.480 Yes, he he can't. He got in front of us 235 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.879 Andrew Editor and a guy named Simeon Rich Rich Summers, 236 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.440 I think you know, I think you know Rich, But 237 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:40.879 I so I want to do that on some level 238 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:46.240 sometimes with our inter nicene Orthodox stupidness that happens. I 239 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.639 want to do what he's doing sometimes with some of 240 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:51.080 what we're doing, because a lot of the times in 241 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.639 the Orthodox wrote we bited each other, and I'm not 242 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.559 I'm not that guy. I'm not the boomer who's also like, 243 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.840 why can't we all get along? That's not what I'm saying. 244 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.519 There's something about the argument that at some point crosses 245 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.799 into hilarious you know what I'm talking about, where you're like, ah, 246 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.960 not this again? Is this needs to be torn down 247 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:15.240 through something funny or cynical or something. And that's where 248 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.279 my brother and I have this crossing of paths on 249 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.919 the internet. I think like a Orthodox version of Battle 250 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.080 on b or something like that. Yeah, something something where 251 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.080 we go. And also you don't really know it. I 252 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:29.799 don't really know in the end, because it's going to 253 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.120 flesh out as all things flesh out, you know, they 254 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.159 It's gonna flesh out as real beyond my own intellect, 255 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.559 and people I don't know if they can do that 256 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.159 sometimes or they feel like they're giving up the fight 257 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:44.360 or something. I don't know, what do you think about that? 258 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.200 Is there a place for that kind of humor? 259 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.879 I mean, I've always felt there's a place for levity 260 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.360 because not everybody is called to the same thing. Like, 261 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.279 you know, people that are in the role of clergy, 262 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.399 that's more appropriate for them to be involved in the 263 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:02.799 doctrinal stuff. 264 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:03.399 Right. 265 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:06.440 So, actually, you know, kind of what we ended up 266 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.759 doing in the last six or seven years was again 267 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.919 somewhat accidental, but there wasn't a lot of clergy presence 268 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:16.159 online in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. Nowadays twenty 269 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.720 twenty five, there's way more orthodox clerical presence online. So 270 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.159 I feel like that's kind of a little bit of 271 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.600 freeing because there's a less of a you know, it's 272 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.080 not like I'm the only voice defending orthodoxy against the 273 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:30.600 papacy or you know whatever. There's other people out here 274 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:32.360 doing it now, which is kind of what it ought 275 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.519 to be, and that I think should be maybe a 276 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:39.440 freeing up thing where we who are laity can focus 277 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.159 on and speak to culture, which. 278 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.399 Is what we're becoming. That's what we're good at. I mean, 279 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.600 we're in it, so not that makes sense to mcgracor 280 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.639 that makes sense to me for a while. Did you 281 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:57.200 figure a question? What you I heard you at one time? 282 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.799 We're doing some stand up stand up in New York 283 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.399 City for infant Okay, but this is this is two 284 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.679 thousand or this is No. Nineteen. It was right in 285 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.559 the year before I decided I probably should get married. 286 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.720 In fact, my wife came to a couple of my shows. Okay, 287 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:19.919 I was pretty crass. I was just becoming orthodox, and 288 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.639 I was making light of well, I don't want to 289 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:24.200 get into it. We could have fun with it, though, 290 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.519 but I was making light of myself. That was sort 291 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.240 of my routine. Okay, cool guy who's not that cool? 292 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.679 Self depreciating. Okay, yeah, I prefer that. What do you 293 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:38.679 prefer if you're gonna go down the rabbit hole of comedy? 294 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:41.960 I don't you know. 295 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.960 I mean, I'm not opposed to stand up, but a 296 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:45.879 lot of what we do is a little more kind 297 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.399 of sketch oriented, you know, impressions. 298 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.240 Kind of goofy wassus. Yes, it's stilly. 299 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.639 Stop it's you know, I vibed a lot more with 300 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.080 the style of stuff that Samhai does as opposed to, 301 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.000 you know, as opposed to like a Bilberg kind of 302 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:02.320 stand up. That's yes, I'm just not that kind of 303 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:03.919 a a person. 304 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:08.079 Yeah, that's almost that's acting. I mean, the stage is 305 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.279 different when you're on there, up there by yourself. Yeah, 306 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.839 I know what you mean. How about our friend Scooter 307 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.200 Downey who did Hoax and the You know him pretty well, don't. 308 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.680 He really loves you, man, he speaks highly of you. Yeah. 309 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.720 We got to be good friends with him through well 310 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:29.000 he eventually moved to the Tennessee area, but yeah, we 311 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.599 spent multiple evenings and days with Scooter. He's the one 312 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.079 that sort of got me on that last episode of 313 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:40.599 The Tucker Show on Fox where we were covering Eat 314 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:42.599 the Bugs and I was dressed up by kloles And 315 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:44.200 that's the kind of stuff I like to do, Like 316 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:47.119 I dress up as somebody and go, you know, there's 317 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.160 something silly rather than just standalone stand up. 318 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:56.359 But did you see our trailer we're doing Christianities? Yes, yes, uh. 319 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.519 Scooter sent me that when he had when he had 320 00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.480 made the first rower. 321 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:05.039 I feel like we're obviously sort of Christian heavy right now, 322 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:08.880 I'm not Christian sorry, orthodox heavy. We've got a lot 323 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.839 of insight, We've got a lot of invitations to some 324 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.240 really cool guys. I think you would be great on there, man, 325 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.680 But I got to how about a little beef. Let's 326 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.279 do a little beef. Do you ever feel like there's 327 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:27.400 a moment when you're losing your soul within the confines 328 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.680 of a debate, not because of the words you're saying, 329 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.920 just because of the nature of the thing itself. Do 330 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.799 you feel like your soul sometimes ebbs away and you 331 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.000 wish you could not ever do that again, and that 332 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:41.799 maybe it's not worth it straw, you know, burnt up 333 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.079 at the end, sort of like Aquinas talks about. Do 334 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.240 you ever feel I think again? 335 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.079 Yeah, absolutely, debate has its limits. Anybody who does a 336 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.960 lot of debates will get tired of it. You'll get frustrated. 337 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:55.200 Even especially if you're doing multiple four or five six 338 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.359 hour online open forums, you're going to hear all the 339 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.240 craziest stuff that you've ever heard. You know, people are 340 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:06.400 going to go at you from all angles. So yeah, 341 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.440 I think there have been definitely sometimes where I lost 342 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.599 my patients and you know, got angry or something like that. 343 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.640 But I would add that there's a lot more times 344 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:21.000 where there was the demonstration of patients, which is by grace. 345 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.799 I'm not trying to say, oh, look at look at 346 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.079 my good works, but I think those are way more 347 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.039 in the minority versus the rest of the times that are. 348 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:30.400 Not you know, in. 349 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:38.319 Extreme examples of nasty exchanges. But you know, sometimes people 350 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.160 that don't do debates are not involved in that kind 351 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.200 of a exchange if you haven't done it for a 352 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:49.960 long time. Like I can recognize when people are disingenuous 353 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:51.359 most of the time pretty quickly. 354 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.359 And also we have different styles. So when it's an open. 355 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.240 Forum, the assumption is that you're you're not at the 356 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.000 level of a formal debate opponent, right, So when we 357 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.839 do formal debates, of which we've done many, if it's 358 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:10.039 a very prominent person, there's going to be a moderator, 359 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.119 there's time to exchange and responses, whereas open form is 360 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.960 just kind of like any Joe Schmo. It would be 361 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.839 like any jo walking into a dojo and saying, hey, 362 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:20.319 I'm ready to fight, right, I mean, they're going to 363 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.839 have to learn that you're violating you know, the rules 364 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.440 of critical thinking, the laws of logic. That's a bad argument. 365 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.440 So that's why there's interruptions and this kind of stuff 366 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:31.119 at that level. 367 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:34.759 And then the formal debates are a lot more kind of. 368 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:40.039 Manicured and curated and you know controlled. I guess so, 369 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.839 but yeah, and that's a long answer to your question. 370 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:47.400 No, no, it is a vague question. Here's another way 371 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.960 we do these dinners. So there's this thing called the 372 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.200 timid and the time of takes people through this Georgian 373 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.559 tradition from the Georgian Republic. It's called the effort of 374 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:01.200 those Yeah, and it's becoming something like a refuge for worthodoxy, 375 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.599 non and just secular people. They're like, I want to 376 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.200 be at that table and I'm seeing something. I could 377 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.960 go on and on about it. I'm seeing something quite beautiful. 378 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.480 And what happens at the end of the night, though, 379 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.640 is the Tamada has done a lot of talking and 380 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:19.000 also present a lot of ideas that at a restaurant 381 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.319 with a whole you don't know who's coming to your 382 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.039 sit At these twenty seaters, you know, you get a 383 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.519 lesbian couple who consider themselves married and you'll get like 384 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.279 two Baptist guys and can't even like look at them, 385 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.720 you know, like like do you get wacky people all 386 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.799 sitting at the same table and the tamada's job is 387 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:39.160 to unite them. But inevitably you wake up the next 388 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.079 days are like four hour events. Oh and you have 389 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.440 a tamada regret. It really has not never failed. And 390 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.759 I've done hundreds sort of like you do a lot 391 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:49.720 of debates. I do a lot of tables, but I 392 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:53.880 inevitably have a tamadai regret where I'm like, h do 393 00:21:53.960 --> 00:22:02.680 you have that I think you must or not. I 394 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:04.319 mean there have been exchanges. 395 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.599 Where I regret the you know, where it went, or 396 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:10.400 maybe if I said, you know, something insulting or something 397 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.440 like that. And I get tired of doing debates because 398 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:18.799 they're somewhat tedious and laborious. But I never have a 399 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.400 problem with the art form itself or with the notion 400 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.960 of rhetoric. I mean, yeah, we're at this era where 401 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.720