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Speaker 1: Guys. I always think, how much of my mind is

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located in this space of like, but what about this

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and this and this? Today that mind is in some

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ways on display because I invited Jay Dyer to come on,

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who's not only really good at debate, but he's also

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a kind of mind that captures ideas and then sort

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of fortifies them and then gives them back to us

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in ways that you have to think about. He's not

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always beloved for this, He's not always beloved for his debates.

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He's not always beloved by all aspects of culture. But

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I think today we have a good talk about why

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that is, why that might be true, or why that

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might be false, and we get into the litometer and

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we talk about the role of humor in life and

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how one should go about addressing those with whom they

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speak on heavy things. Not mean Jay Dyer. My phone's

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not going to start ringing if I talked to Andrew Jay,

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if he's our editor guy, he's out there doing the

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thing with us. I got jaydyar here. It's been a while.

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I've always thought about having you come on here. Man.

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How you doing. I'm doing great.

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Speaker 2: You were at my wedding, so I'm glad to reconnect

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and should have this conversation with it.

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Speaker 1: We said it. I don't know if you remember, we

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sat at the table. Everything he just happened in your life.

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You had this, you know, this event of wonder and

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then we sat at the table and like a bunch

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of like twenty two year old author bros. Started talking

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about like some theological moment. It was hilarious. I was like, Oh,

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this is what Jay, this is Jay's life, even.

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Speaker 2: At his wedding, Even as wedding you get a bunch

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of questions about essence centergization. And I think there was

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even like atheist relatives later that night trying to you know, argue.

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Speaker 1: Trying to rape it out with it, trying to be

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atheist so bright the way that was kind of COVID associate.

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I think it was. It was COVID, wasn't it. Oh yeah,

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it was.

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Speaker 2: It was right in the middle of it right, maybe

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even write at beginning.

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Speaker 1: But we don't we don't know each other like besties.

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But it was nice. My wife basically was closer I

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think closer with your with your wife, and so they

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I got pulled in and it was wonderful. I'm I'm

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blessed to have been there.

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Speaker 2: Bro, that's right, because they were. Yeah, they were at

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the same parish for a good while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So talk to me about this. So what

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we do on this part is try to figure out, like,

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aren't there some lessons from before the Enlightenment that we

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should actually be paying attention to? Uh? And how does

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that work? So what's the Enlightenment to you? Because you

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wrote like an enlightened guy, I mean, you're using rational

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arguments to try to help people understand things. So what

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is the Enlightenment to How do you see it? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think the best way to describe it would be

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the excesses that you see with the French revolutionaries, who,

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for example, make and make reason into a goddess. And

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I don't think they actually thought it was an actual entity,

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but reason became the new deity of that time, and

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that led to a lot of bloodshed, a lot of revolutions.

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You know, after the Enlightenment you get the Voltaire and

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the philosophs. So I think that reason as a tool,

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it's a faculty that can be used because you know,

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in Christology, for example, Jesus has a rational soul that

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means he has as part of his human nature the

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faculty of reasoning, and that was declared early on, even

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against the Apollinarians, that if you denied that rational aspect

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of christ soul and replaced it with the divine person

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of the logos, that was a heresy because it was

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detracting from him assuming a full human nature. So Christ

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heals and restores the faculty of reasoning, just like all

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of our other faculties, our will, our body, et cetera,

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and so our mind.

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Speaker 1: And so I've always seen it as a tool.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, the Enlightenment and Protestant Reformation exalted it out of

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its due place. But you know, even some of the

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most quote mystical of the Orthodox Saints, like said Gregor Palamos,

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he wrote apidictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit, and APPDICTI

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refers to Aristocean logic. So he utilizes the risktrain logic

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to disprove the Filioquist position. So you know, in his

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mind there was certainly no natural antipathy between theology and

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the faculty of reasoning.

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Speaker 1: It just can't be.

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Speaker 2: Put in this, you know, goddess position.

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Speaker 1: Here's an idea that I keep having, you know, as

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a history guy. On some level, I studied it and

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as a as a graduate student. Maybe it's that they're

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anti Christ thing they're substituting it. If the pre supposition

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is that Christ is God, then't reason kind of makes

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sense as you go and stretch it out right into

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an argument. But I feel like there was a substitutionary

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thing going on with the enlightened philosophers. Would you agree

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with that where there's substituting reason for Christ and someone.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think there was genuine reaction, legitimate reaction against

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the corruptions in the papal church and the Franco papal

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system that people in the know pros and Reformation or

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the Enlightenment saw as a problem. But they had bad solutions,

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so they went to this opposite extreme and reacting against

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the papacy and some of them, you know, when the

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direction of Protestanism, someone went the direction of atheism and deism.

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So yeah, logos theology, as you noted itself, is situated

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within the milieu of the wisdom texts of the Old

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Testament like Proverbs, Book of Wisdom, and so when John

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talks about Jesus as the logos or the logic of God,

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I don't saying he's equating him to logic. He's the

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second person of the trinity. But there is an element

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of logos logic or reason that goes along with that,

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which is an appeal to the best elements of Hellenic

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and Greek culture to try to convince them of the

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deed of Christ and him being the son of God.

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And again, you're absolutely right to replace logos the divine person,

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and that truth is therefore ultimately located in a divine person,

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with the human faculty of reasoning, which is a pale

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reflection of divine logos, is absolutely a replacement idolatry.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that the problem with scientism? That's it, right,

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I think that's what it is, right, That's the root

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of it.

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Speaker 2: Scientism also has, i think few people know it, kind

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of has a hermetic alchemical origin as well. If you

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go back to the even some of the who we

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think of as Enlightenment rationalist thinkers, they also were very

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infected by a lot of esoteric cabalistic and so there

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can even be a cabalistic element to scientism where that

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dead matter comes alive and you know, you can go

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within to find the principles of you know, the spark

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of divinity within you, and that man is trying to

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fix nature the you know.

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Speaker 1: Francis Banking man. So we're going to take a test.

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It's our little test on here. It's called the letometer.

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I want you to take it with me before we

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hang up. So people who are are, We're gonna it's

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just like five question. It's it's highly sack. It will

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It'll affect you because for rest of your life now

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you'll have this moniker hanging around. It'll tell you about

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your actual being in a way that I'll ruin your life.

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But just work, just work with it, Just work with it.

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I promise it's coming, guys, it's coming, the lightermeter. But uh,

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before we get there, do this with me. So how

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do you how do you know yourself on the on

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the on the media's on the on the interwebs, Like

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are you an entertainer? Because I think you're attracting the

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guys who liked that part that that that mystical part

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of the earliest Enlightenment thing is we are like something's

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off here, let's fix it. But they didn't know how

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to do it. The guys I hear coming onto your

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shows and listening and making comments on X and all

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that stuff. I feel like they want something that's deeply

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mystical and spiritual and alchemic, alchemically inclined, and I feel

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like give it to them. But I don't think they

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understand it. Sometimes I think they think you're doing some

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fun stuff that's not Christick. I don't know, what do

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you think about this class of guys that sort of

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love your work? I would are they Christian or how

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do you? How do you how do you categorize these characters.

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Speaker 2: I think we have a wide array now of people

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who like what we talk about in niches, so there's

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kind of different sectors. For example, when we do live events,

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we can kind of see the you know, schematic breakdown

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of this because we don't have huge live events, but

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anywhere from one hundred and one hundred twenty people at

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most of our live events, and you know, everybody always

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kind of talks about what aspects of what we talk

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about they're interested in. So some people are there. I

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send the you know, I saw you on you know

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Alex Alex's show. I really like what you talk about

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with geopolitics, and then we get a faction of the

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people that are like, oh, I really love all the

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Hollywood stuff, because really a lot of what I started

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blogging about was was movie analysis. Film analysis. It's about

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like breakdowns of films, and I wasn't really even thinking

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about talking about theology at the time. That actually happened

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kind of accidentally. Somebody said, Hey, would you debate this

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atheist guy. This is back in twenty seventeen, and he

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was a pretty prominent atheist at that time, and then

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that led to, oh, here's another atheist guy, when you

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want to bate this other prominent atheist, and that kind

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of snowballed into doing debates, which is not something I

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really thought I would be doing on the internet. And

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then that attracted its own kind of you know, crowd

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of people who really really liked to see debates, and

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the majority of that in the last six years ended

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up focusing on debating prominent atheists and Muslims.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: Much about Islam in twenty seventeen or even twenty eighteen,

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and then I started to learn, you know, a good bit,

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so that kind of just happened on its own. It

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was again, it wasn't something planned, but I never stopped

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doing the other things that we did, like the movie

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analyses and writing the books on the hollywod would symbolic

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breakdowns and you know, doing the geopolitical content. So kind

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of what happened was I just sort of would introduce

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more of my own interests into the public work that

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we were doing, just to kind of test the waters.

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And so that led to me kind of doing more

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comedic stuff. I always wanted to do that, always had

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that element of what we did, and I wanted to

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lean more into that, and so that led to a

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lot more openings in that realm. And then I think

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what happens is that people see one aspect of what

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I do and they kind of think, oh, he's that

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guy that does this are aren't.

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Speaker 1: You the Hollywood guy? Or I thought you were the

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debate guy. I know you as a debate guy for

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whatever reason. That's how I know you.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I don't like to you know, I mean,

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I think debate is interesting and it can be fun.

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But I think probably people will think I like it

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more than I actually do.

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Speaker 1: That's my question. Which one you got an hour You're

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going to do some media and it's going to be

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the hour you love the most. What are you doing

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in that hour? I've had the most.

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Speaker 2: Fun in the last ten years on the big comedian

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podcast that we've been on, which is two or three

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of those, and you know, doing the geopolitical breakdowns, those

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are the most fun.

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Speaker 1: I y I enjoyed the most.

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Speaker 2: I have to admit, like you know, when it's if

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it's if it's a huge Muslim debate, those have been

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really Like we did we debated the two of the

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top Muslims on a huge outlet a few months ago

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as me and Sam schmun and we debated Daniel Hikikachu

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and e Jaws on freshen Fit podcast and that got

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three four million views, So that that was enjoyable to

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be able to speak to that many people. But it

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wasn't the most fun debate because a lot of times

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debates that kind of become really repetitive. It's all it's

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the same stuff over and over and over. And if you've

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been doing debates since college like I have, like you're

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pretty much going to be hearing the same arguments over

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over and over. So I really enjoy the creativity, you know,

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comedic side of there's a lot more than just here

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you know.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he he can't. He got in front of us

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Andrew Editor and a guy named Simeon Rich Rich Summers,

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I think you know, I think you know Rich, But

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I so I want to do that on some level

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sometimes with our inter nicene Orthodox stupidness that happens. I

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want to do what he's doing sometimes with some of

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what we're doing, because a lot of the times in

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the Orthodox wrote we bited each other, and I'm not

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I'm not that guy. I'm not the boomer who's also like,

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why can't we all get along? That's not what I'm saying.

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There's something about the argument that at some point crosses

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into hilarious you know what I'm talking about, where you're like, ah,

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not this again? Is this needs to be torn down

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through something funny or cynical or something. And that's where

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my brother and I have this crossing of paths on

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the internet. I think like a Orthodox version of Battle

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on b or something like that. Yeah, something something where

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we go. And also you don't really know it. I

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don't really know in the end, because it's going to

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flesh out as all things flesh out, you know, they

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It's gonna flesh out as real beyond my own intellect,

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and people I don't know if they can do that

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sometimes or they feel like they're giving up the fight

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or something. I don't know, what do you think about that?

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Is there a place for that kind of humor?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've always felt there's a place for levity

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because not everybody is called to the same thing. Like,

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you know, people that are in the role of clergy,

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that's more appropriate for them to be involved in the

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doctrinal stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, actually, you know, kind of what we ended up

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doing in the last six or seven years was again

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somewhat accidental, but there wasn't a lot of clergy presence

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online in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. Nowadays twenty

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twenty five, there's way more orthodox clerical presence online. So

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I feel like that's kind of a little bit of

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freeing because there's a less of a you know, it's

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not like I'm the only voice defending orthodoxy against the

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papacy or you know whatever. There's other people out here

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doing it now, which is kind of what it ought

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to be, and that I think should be maybe a

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freeing up thing where we who are laity can focus

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on and speak to culture, which.

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Speaker 1: Is what we're becoming. That's what we're good at. I mean,

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we're in it, so not that makes sense to mcgracor

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that makes sense to me for a while. Did you

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figure a question? What you I heard you at one time?

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We're doing some stand up stand up in New York

283
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City for infant Okay, but this is this is two

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thousand or this is No. Nineteen. It was right in

285
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the year before I decided I probably should get married.

286
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In fact, my wife came to a couple of my shows. Okay,

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I was pretty crass. I was just becoming orthodox, and

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I was making light of well, I don't want to

289
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get into it. We could have fun with it, though,

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but I was making light of myself. That was sort

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of my routine. Okay, cool guy who's not that cool?

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Self depreciating. Okay, yeah, I prefer that. What do you

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prefer if you're gonna go down the rabbit hole of comedy?

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I don't you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not opposed to stand up, but a

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lot of what we do is a little more kind

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of sketch oriented, you know, impressions.

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Speaker 1: Kind of goofy wassus. Yes, it's stilly.

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Speaker 2: Stop it's you know, I vibed a lot more with

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the style of stuff that Samhai does as opposed to,

301
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you know, as opposed to like a Bilberg kind of

302
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stand up. That's yes, I'm just not that kind of

303
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a a person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's almost that's acting. I mean, the stage is

305
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different when you're on there, up there by yourself. Yeah,

306
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I know what you mean. How about our friend Scooter

307
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Downey who did Hoax and the You know him pretty well, don't.

308
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He really loves you, man, he speaks highly of you. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We got to be good friends with him through well

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he eventually moved to the Tennessee area, but yeah, we

311
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spent multiple evenings and days with Scooter. He's the one

312
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that sort of got me on that last episode of

313
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The Tucker Show on Fox where we were covering Eat

314
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the Bugs and I was dressed up by kloles And

315
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that's the kind of stuff I like to do, Like

316
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I dress up as somebody and go, you know, there's

317
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something silly rather than just standalone stand up.

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Speaker 1: But did you see our trailer we're doing Christianities? Yes, yes, uh.

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Speaker 2: Scooter sent me that when he had when he had

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made the first rower.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're obviously sort of Christian heavy right now,

322
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I'm not Christian sorry, orthodox heavy. We've got a lot

323
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of insight, We've got a lot of invitations to some

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really cool guys. I think you would be great on there, man,

325
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But I got to how about a little beef. Let's

326
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do a little beef. Do you ever feel like there's

327
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a moment when you're losing your soul within the confines

328
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of a debate, not because of the words you're saying,

329
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just because of the nature of the thing itself. Do

330
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you feel like your soul sometimes ebbs away and you

331
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wish you could not ever do that again, and that

332
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maybe it's not worth it straw, you know, burnt up

333
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at the end, sort of like Aquinas talks about. Do

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you ever feel I think again?

335
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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, debate has its limits. Anybody who does a

336
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lot of debates will get tired of it. You'll get frustrated.

337
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Even especially if you're doing multiple four or five six

338
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hour online open forums, you're going to hear all the

339
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craziest stuff that you've ever heard. You know, people are

340
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going to go at you from all angles. So yeah,

341
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I think there have been definitely sometimes where I lost

342
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my patients and you know, got angry or something like that.

343
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But I would add that there's a lot more times

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where there was the demonstration of patients, which is by grace.

345
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I'm not trying to say, oh, look at look at

346
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my good works, but I think those are way more

347
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in the minority versus the rest of the times that are.

348
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Speaker 1: Not you know, in.

349
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Speaker 2: Extreme examples of nasty exchanges. But you know, sometimes people

350
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that don't do debates are not involved in that kind

351
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of a exchange if you haven't done it for a

352
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long time. Like I can recognize when people are disingenuous

353
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most of the time pretty quickly.

354
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Speaker 1: And also we have different styles. So when it's an open.

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Speaker 2: Forum, the assumption is that you're you're not at the

356
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level of a formal debate opponent, right, So when we

357
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do formal debates, of which we've done many, if it's

358
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a very prominent person, there's going to be a moderator,

359
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there's time to exchange and responses, whereas open form is

360
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just kind of like any Joe Schmo. It would be

361
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like any jo walking into a dojo and saying, hey,

362
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I'm ready to fight, right, I mean, they're going to

363
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have to learn that you're violating you know, the rules

364
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of critical thinking, the laws of logic. That's a bad argument.

365
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So that's why there's interruptions and this kind of stuff

366
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at that level.

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Speaker 1: And then the formal debates are a lot more kind of.

368
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Speaker 2: Manicured and curated and you know controlled. I guess so,

369
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but yeah, and that's a long answer to your question.

370
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Speaker 1: No, no, it is a vague question. Here's another way

371
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we do these dinners. So there's this thing called the

372
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timid and the time of takes people through this Georgian

373
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tradition from the Georgian Republic. It's called the effort of

374
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those Yeah, and it's becoming something like a refuge for worthodoxy,

375
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non and just secular people. They're like, I want to

376
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be at that table and I'm seeing something. I could

377
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go on and on about it. I'm seeing something quite beautiful.

378
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And what happens at the end of the night, though,

379
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is the Tamada has done a lot of talking and

380
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,000
also present a lot of ideas that at a restaurant

381
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with a whole you don't know who's coming to your

382
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,039
sit At these twenty seaters, you know, you get a

383
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,519
lesbian couple who consider themselves married and you'll get like

384
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two Baptist guys and can't even like look at them,

385
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you know, like like do you get wacky people all

386
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sitting at the same table and the tamada's job is

387
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to unite them. But inevitably you wake up the next

388
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:42,079
days are like four hour events. Oh and you have

389
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a tamada regret. It really has not never failed. And

390
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,759
I've done hundreds sort of like you do a lot

391
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of debates. I do a lot of tables, but I

392
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inevitably have a tamadai regret where I'm like, h do

393
00:21:53,960 --> 00:22:02,680
you have that I think you must or not. I

394
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,319
mean there have been exchanges.

395
00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,599
Speaker 2: Where I regret the you know, where it went, or

396
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,400
maybe if I said, you know, something insulting or something

397
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like that. And I get tired of doing debates because

398
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,799
they're somewhat tedious and laborious. But I never have a

399
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:22,400
problem with the art form itself or with the notion

400
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,960
of rhetoric. I mean, yeah, we're at this era where

401
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,720
people are uneducated. They don't know that it's a part

402
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:34,240
of classical pedagogy to have this ability to have, you know,

403
00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:37,119
formal exchanges, and they don't even realize that if you

404
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,599
go watch Oxford Union debates with people like you know,

405
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,440
Hitchens or whoever. They'll include jokes and jabs.

406
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Speaker 1: As part of the rhetoric.

407
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Speaker 2: So, but if your arguments are all rhetoric in that hominems, well,

408
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,359
that would show that you know, you don't have any

409
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,480
actual arguments. It's all just hot air and insults. But

410
00:22:55,559 --> 00:22:58,160
the idea that you can't have any jabs or whatever

411
00:22:58,279 --> 00:23:00,559
is is just kind of weak. And we're in this

412
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,119
idea of postmodernity is premised on there's no such thing

413
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,799
as truth. There's just competing power narratives. So a lot

414
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,319
of people already from the outset think that debates bad

415
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,519
because there is no such thing as truth. So date

416
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:21,319
have just just exercising your oppression over me.

417
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Speaker 1: That's all that it is.

418
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:26,799
Speaker 2: It's just a power exchange. And so also people think

419
00:23:26,839 --> 00:23:29,440
that there's the debate is arguing. Those are different things,

420
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,519
and the debate has rules, it has structure to it.

421
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:34,960
So one of the things that we're trying to do

422
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,960
is also explain and help people understand that diological, dialectical

423
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:44,599
discourse of what debate is. I don't mean dialectics in

424
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:46,960
the bad way. I just mean in the sense of sure,

425
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,839
answer question, answer what Plato talked about? So so anyway,

426
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:54,400
but yeah, but last last name acts seventeen, right, Paul

427
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,799
goes into the synagogue and debates daily with the Jews.

428
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:02,640
God said, come let us reason together at Isaiah. So

429
00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:05,960
you know, these things can't be inherent inherently wrong. It's

430
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,799
just difficult to always do them perfectly. So you know,

431
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,279
I waited in I didn't we met at your wedding whatever.

432
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: And then my brother, you know, during COVID and thereafter

433
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:21,920
he started to gain a large audience. And then you guys,

434
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:24,839
I would just go to an Orthodox church to visit

435
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,000
or something, and then inevitably, Father Peter J. Dyer somehow

436
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:31,279
they were always the same idea and the same person,

437
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:32,960
and I would just be having a coffee and then

438
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,200
I'd be I didn't really get it, so I started,

439
00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:40,599
of course, I looked at his website and I waded

440
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,720
in and said, okay, what's Jay doing? Because dude, everywhere

441
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:46,119
I went there was this thing twenty twenty one and

442
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,920
twenty two twenty three right in there. And what I

443
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,920
started to realize is is people are soft, Like, how

444
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,079
else do you said it? Just now I'm like, yeah,

445
00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,960
They're just this is an actual thing that's taking place.

446
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,880
It's not just some guy screaming in somebody because of

447
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,400
a post. That's not what's happening. There's rules and there's

448
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,559
a way to be and then we all sort of

449
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:10,799
gain from it or not or just turn it off.

450
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,839
And I started to get frustrated with the notion that

451
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:18,680
to be to be a Christian was to somehow just

452
00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:22,039
let everyone say whatever they wanted then hang up the phone.

453
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:23,640
I don't really get that. I don't even get that

454
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,559
as a concept in general, and so it wasn't what

455
00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:28,279
I thought it was. I just want you to know that,

456
00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:31,079
because I tend to be the empathetic version of my brother,

457
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,279
like I tend to be on the love true spectrum

458
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:38,359
of the fetal version, I'm the sentimentality guy. When I

459
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,000
fall down, it's because I'm too sentimental. I think when

460
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,319
my brother falls down, it's because his razor edge is

461
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,799
real sharp, and you're like, dude, back off a little. So.

462
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:49,759
But then when I saw what you guys were actually doing,

463
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,920
I didn't. I didn't like the characterization of it all.

464
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,200
I think it's changed now for you. Would you agree

465
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,160
that it's changing in terms of how people see you

466
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,920
in the orthosphere.

467
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly, I haven't paid a lot of attention

468
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,039
to it, to be honest with it, because I mean,

469
00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:14,240
you know, when we, like I said, we do a

470
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:16,440
live event, we kind of get a cross section of

471
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,160
the audience. I can look on YouTube and see, you know,

472
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:26,200
my audience is ninety percent guys aged twenty to forty five, So.

473
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: That's who I'm speaking to.

474
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,079
Speaker 2: And I think even back in you know, twenty eighteen,

475
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,799
nineteen twenty, you know, I wasn't really thinking about what's

476
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,240
my demographics? Who am I speaking to? But you know,

477
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:40,240
when we go, when we do the live events, obviously

478
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:43,759
a significant portion probably thirty, maybe even fifty percent in

479
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:47,799
some cases are people who are young guys inquiring Orthodoxy

480
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,240
or who have converted. Many of them, by the way,

481
00:26:50,319 --> 00:26:53,880
are married and have wives, so it's not just y,

482
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:56,440
you know, eighteen year old in cell guys who are

483
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,279
who are extremely risk or whatever. But I didn't even again,

484
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:06,759
I guess I just didn't think about who my cross

485
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:09,799
section audience was when I was talking about stuff back then,

486
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,440
and you know, putting up videos, and I don't think

487
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,920
you just don't think about where is this going to

488
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,160
be and you know, five years, what will the size

489
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,640
of the audience be then, how many people are going

490
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,720
to be listening. You just kind of talk about stuff

491
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,119
and respond to stuff and you just don't think about it.

492
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,960
So you know, I just didn't have any plans of

493
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:29,480
any of those.

494
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Well, you're brilliant at that stuff, at responding, talking and

495
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,079
being present in the conversation. Like that's really clear. What's

496
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,599
the hardest part about it all? Like what part it's

497
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,359
difficult as you're you know, as a person online doing

498
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:46,880
this work.

499
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously I'm sensitive to my own sins

500
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,720
and my own failings and flaws and areas of lack

501
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:01,200
So you know, I don't want my I what I

502
00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:04,559
talk about to be the face of orthodoxy, you.

503
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

504
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,559
Speaker 2: And I never had any interest in being that, which

505
00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:10,880
is why I'm happy to see many clerics making content

506
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:14,039
and uh, you know that's they're really the ones that

507
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:17,319
should be should be that. It's not it's not to

508
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:21,160
say you can't have laity doing that, but so that

509
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,319
that's a difficulty. Obviously, there's difficulties that we all deal

510
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,960
with within the church. We deal with difficult people, we

511
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:33,839
deal with challenging people, difficult clergy relationships, you know, all

512
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,680
kinds of difficulties are are tough in the world of

513
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:42,119
Orthodoxy as well. I wouldn't be anywhere else, but you know,

514
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,880
there's still difficulties in this world.

515
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: But well it's from the outside it looks like you

516
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,880
were led, meaning you're following something that's being you're invited into.

517
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,519
I think it's Look, I always tell everybody you know this,

518
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,160
You've said this. The hand can't judge the eye. But

519
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,160
it's all part of the same. Everyone needs to calm down.

520
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,839
It's very hard to understand each of ver. Now the

521
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,599
question is your disposition, right, are you actually caring about

522
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:10,480
these things? And do you care about Christ? And are

523
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,359
you trying to live that like that that that that's

524
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,839
all that When someone's trying to do that online, I'm like,

525
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,559
right on, bro, Like, what's the problem?

526
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I think the difficulty also is balancing doing

527
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,400
that without uh, you know, making that something that you're

528
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,279
that's not a display, you know what I mean. You're

529
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,400
not look at me for my you know, my online piety.

530
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,240
And I think a lot of people fall into that

531
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:43,039
where a lot of laity, you know, maybe they get

532
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:47,599
interested in Orthodoxy, they convert and immediately they have a

533
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,480
lot of zeal, which is good. But when you try

534
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:54,880
to make that your online persona, and then you put

535
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,680
up a PfP image of a saint and you're quoting

536
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,319
the saints every day and this and that, which it's

537
00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:02,759
not that it's wrong to necessarily quote a saint, but

538
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:07,519
that a lot of people do this performative online stuff

539
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,079
and they post their prayers and they post how they're

540
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:10,720
praying and all this.

541
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:11,119
Speaker 1: Kind of stuff.

542
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: And I've always just found that to be in bad

543
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,720
taste and usually in our experience, and we've dealt with

544
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:19,400
these people like this for many many years, going back

545
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,720
to twenty seventeen, sixteen, eight nine years now. I mean

546
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,799
a lot of these people don't remain Orthodox very long.

547
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,000
That happens really extreme positions, and so I just always

548
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,240
felt that it was, you know, when Jesus says, don't

549
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:35,359
go into the market and pray and try to get

550
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:39,359
everybody seeing you. So you know, that's why a lot

551
00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:43,000
of my online content, I might talk about orthodox stuff,

552
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,559
or I might be on somebody's podcasts, but you don't

553
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,319
see me doing a lot of that posting wise, because

554
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:53,440
it's just you know, it's like I remember talking to

555
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:55,480
your brother some of years back, and he was kind

556
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,519
of making the point like, you know, you're probably out

557
00:30:58,519 --> 00:30:59,119
a fork in the road.

558
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,839
Speaker 1: You're going to have to choose do you want to

559
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,160
go in.

560
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,599
Speaker 2: A holy, completely Orthodox direction and you know, right orthodox

561
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,200
theology books and not deal with culture, or do you

562
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,640
want to focus more on culture? And so I think

563
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,039
one of my friends put it that, you know, some

564
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:18,440
people are Orthodox concrete content creators who work in media,

565
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,039
and some people are you know, just Orthodox media. And

566
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,559
I felt like, you know, I didn't want to give

567
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,599
up all the avenues and things that I was interested in,

568
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,000
the comedy, the Hollywood stuff, you know, the live events

569
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:33,480
and all that.

570
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:34,559
Speaker 1: I enjoy doing that.

571
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,839
Speaker 2: So I'd rather be an Orthodox person who works in media,

572
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:39,640
if that makes sense.

573
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:48,039
Speaker 1: In fact, the Internet it doesn't allow. What's the best

574
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:49,119
way for me to say this?

575
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,839
Speaker 2: Religious stuff is very difficult via the Internet because it's abstracted,

576
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,160
divorced from you know, the here and the now, that

577
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,400
the physical the incarnational, and that that causes problems.

578
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:07,839
Speaker 1: Guys. One quick break. There's a store. It's an eBay store.

579
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:14,960
It's the First Things Foundation Ebayed store by Nikola. Nikola

580
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:20,599
is my daughter. Nepotism alert. She's helping with First Things.

581
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,119
Is one of our beloved volunteers running the First Things

582
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:29,480
Foundation eBay store. You contact her, send her a picture

583
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:32,799
of the thing you want to sell. She takes does

584
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:35,599
all the work to get that thing sold and then says, hey,

585
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:41,119
you send it. You send it. You donate all of

586
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,119
that cash to First Things. So your garage is stuffed

587
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:49,640
with stuff. Unstuff it, send it to people who want

588
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,119
to buy it, and then First Things gets a donation.

589
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:57,880
This is for people who say they don't have cash.

590
00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:01,440
But if you're an American, I know you've got stuff.

591
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,759
Sell it for more. Check the link in the pod

592
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:10,279
notes back to the show.

593
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: A lot of Orthodox you know priests have not perhaps

594
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,880
spent a lot of time in Protestantism or Calvinism or

595
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,559
Orthodox I mean, or or Catholicism. You know, I've been

596
00:33:22,559 --> 00:33:25,440
in those worlds, those realms. I live lived those worlds

597
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,640
in realms, so you know I can answer those kinds

598
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,599
of questions I think pretty proficiently. So in that regard,

599
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,720
it's helpful to people. But we always say and we've

600
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,480
been you know, we have clergy on our discord that

601
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,440
I've been saying for years, this is not catechisis. This

602
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,920
is answering your questions. And so apologetics is not orthodoxy.

603
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,440
It's just like a sign that points you in the direction.

604
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,880
And that's that's really all the internet can do it,

605
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,839
can't you really have to go and actually be in bold.

606
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's one of the things we're

607
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,599
trying to do with first things is hey, okay, great job,

608
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,839
well done, well said. And also you want to go

609
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,640
work with Africans in a really cool setting that will

610
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,360
actually teach you a lot about who you are because

611
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,880
you live in a mud hut. Let's go. But most

612
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,159
people don't want to go down that road. But it's

613
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,480
a real deep embodiment. And we ended up throwing dinners

614
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,719
for the same reason, because the Georgians taught us how

615
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,599
to be actually present in a way where you can

616
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:24,639
talk about hard at the high things we call them

617
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,159
the high things at the table, you know, the universal

618
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,320
themes by also but also you can laugh and just

619
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,360
toast to humor. You know, there's not a few dirty

620
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,480
words now. And then the whole thing is is, in

621
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,760
other words, you're really experienced the entirety of the cosmos,

622
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,639
like at a table, because the table was a representation

623
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,440
of that. And so yeah, we're all gonna do it anyway, right, Jay,

624
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,760
We're gonna embody something like you're only gonna do this

625
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,840
thing for so long where you talk to people on

626
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,519
the interwebs, you're gonna have a life outside of that. Yeah,

627
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:56,960
it's got to look like something.

628
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: Well, it's just like you know, think to stand end up,

629
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,679
you know, and I've done stand up before, but like that,

630
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,079
you can't replace uh, the you know, interaction that you

631
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:11,239
have in a club with the audience, if you're doing

632
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,719
crowd work and you're making fun of people in the

633
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,039
audience and joking that, you can't replace that with something

634
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:16,960
you know online.

635
00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: It's just it's just.

636
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:25,079
Speaker 2: An irreplaceable kind of existential you know, encounter. And the

637
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:27,440
same goes for you know, what you're talking about with

638
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,239
what the toasts that you do, and you know, it's

639
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,000
the same for the liturgy and going and spending time with.

640
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: The guys at your church. Yes, so you know internet stuff. Yeah,

641
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,800
and thank god, thank god, I'm gonna I'm going to

642
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,039
ask you some questions. But here's the thing, just as

643
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:48,119
I was about to ask you. You gotta bear with

644
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,320
me because I'm going to go find it on my

645
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:54,000
on my phone. What's a boomer? Because I can tell

646
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:56,280
when I'm online with my friends who are much younger

647
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,440
I do with all these young guys, right, it's bad

648
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,719
to be a boo boomer, it seems. How would you

649
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,559
define boomer or norm me? Will you just do the

650
00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:09,800
Jay Dyer definition of those things? Well, you're I can.

651
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: I can already look at you and see your gen

652
00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:13,360
X right so racked.

653
00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: You can.

654
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: Usually determine that via the degree of the gray. So

655
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,239
if you've got like this Spaltan pepper, that's like gen

656
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,079
X for sure. But I'm in a unique position being

657
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,559
elder millennial right on the cusp of gen X and millennial,

658
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:32,159
so I can kind of bridge that world.

659
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: But the joke of.

660
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: You know, boomers and kind of being lampooned began probably

661
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:42,360
fifteen years ago on the Internet. I like to take

662
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,400
credit for it because I wrote an essay back then

663
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,239
that was just kind of a satirical thing that went

664
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,119
mini viral back then about it. I can't prove that

665
00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:55,000
I literally created the boomer meme, but I wrote some

666
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,039
essays making fun of boomers at the time, and just

667
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:00,199
hostilly kind of that generation was from certain perspective, because

668
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:02,000
it doesn't mean that I hate boomers, it was just

669
00:37:02,039 --> 00:37:04,519
intended to be a satirical, you know for sure kind

670
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:08,599
of critique, and it's a critique of the attitude of

671
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,760
you know, just sort of high rates of divorce, you know,

672
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,599
preferring and bragging about monetary gain for a one k

673
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,159
is over you know, the children over inheritance, these kinds

674
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,639
of things, blowing the money and not having an inheritance

675
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:24,280
for the children.

676
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: You know, boomerisms like automatic deference to.

677
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: Worshiping the nation of Israel from like a Christian Zionis perspective.

678
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: Boomerisms like.

679
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:47,039
Speaker 2: You know, gambling casinos, you know that kind of just

680
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:50,360
just the things that that generation were really sort of

681
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,280
wrapped up in sports, idolization and worshiping of sports in

682
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,119
a really naive attitude towards politics that you know, it's

683
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:02,199
GOP versus Democrats. Not understanding uniparty.

684
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,679
Speaker 1: We'll get our guy in and it'll be better.

685
00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, not understanding you know, anything to do

686
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,760
with conspiracy stuff or you know, deeper geopolitical issues. You know,

687
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,159
those are all boomerisms, and then it kind of became

688
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:21,119
its own a lot as you know, you know, memes

689
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:23,360
kind of take on a life of their own, and

690
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,400
so you kind of get the meme growing and becoming

691
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,760
not just an age group, but people having the attitude.

692
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: Of a boomer.

693
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,199
Speaker 2: So you could be a gen X person who if

694
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:42,400
you're repeating very kind of normy attitudes of politics, you know,

695
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,239
you might be called a boomer. Yeah, so it kind

696
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,360
of just took on a life of its own, as.

697
00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: Many memes do.

698
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: But that's what it's intended to characterize, and I've never

699
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,719
ceased characterizing it and.

700
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: Kind of con sing with that joke.

701
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 2: Some people gotten offended by it, but some of my closest,

702
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:02,679
you know, best sorts of people. My my godfather is

703
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,320
a boomer. Jim Jotras is a boomer. So not all

704
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,840
boomers are bad. It's just it's also part of the

705
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,760
attitude of you know this from stand up you know,

706
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,400
back in the day, you know, in this in in

707
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,880
the comedy world, you could make fun of anything and anybody,

708
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,880
and it was just kind of understood that, you know,

709
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:20,880
you know, white people make fun.

710
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: Of black people.

711
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: Black black comedians make fun of white people all the time,

712
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,039
and uh, you know it would just so my attitude

713
00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,519
towards that was always just kind of the same audience

714
00:39:31,559 --> 00:39:33,800
as like a comedy club, just kind of making jokes

715
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,039
about generations. And by the way, I've always thought boomer

716
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:41,320
jokes about millennials are funny because our our age group

717
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:45,320
has its flaws and its problems, and they're all pretty funny.

718
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,360
You know, being lazy, not wanting to work, Yeah, all funny.

719
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,960
So I think that the generation should laugh each other

720
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:56,599
and not get into this hyper politicized attitude. But as

721
00:39:56,639 --> 00:40:00,440
you know, like after I don't know, it seems like

722
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,679
after the period of Bruce Jenner being Woman of the Year,

723
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,039
all of this stuff got hyper moralized and hyper politicized

724
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:15,880
to where everyone's jokes now became cancelation offenses, to where

725
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,800
anything people are looking for a way to say, oh,

726
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,320
he made this joke, he needs to be canceled.

727
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what you've done really well, is

728
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,920
describing really that's the I would call it like something

729
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,760
like the last eight, nine, ten years. I think your

730
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:33,760
stuff does a really good job of saying I'm going

731
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,599
to use this word boomer to demonstrate something like naivete

732
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,199
and it's really helpful to me. I use the term

733
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,599
light people. So coming up as an older guy, a

734
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:47,480
little bit older, I'm fifty eight, this idea, if I

735
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:51,400
see one more older person tell me about their lawn,

736
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:52,840
I can't do it.

737
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,559
Speaker 2: In that's the perfect Boomers and lawns. That was actually

738
00:40:55,559 --> 00:40:57,320
part of the original boomer mean, was the lawn?

739
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: Oh? Was it so there? It is? But I had this,

740
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:01,639
you know, in the eighties, and I'd be like I

741
00:41:01,639 --> 00:41:03,719
had come back from Africa a peace corps. I'm like,

742
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,559
there's something wrong with this lawn fixation. And then it

743
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:12,000
turned into like the people I know in Europe and

744
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,519
other places in the old World, they don't have lawns.

745
00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:16,880
That's not really a concept. And I started to realize

746
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,840
this was about this wasn't about lawns. This of course,

747
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,719
is about outward facing wealth. This is yeah, it's a

748
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,320
kind of a weird competition within the neighborhood of and

749
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,079
all that. All that and all that. Then you start

750
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,039
to realize there's actually reality to it. And then of

751
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:31,840
course what I think is really good that's going on,

752
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,360
and I saw that you've been reading is something like

753
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,840
the government is also like the lawn. It's the same

754
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:43,800
naivete is going on with the lawn will show people

755
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,760
that I'm great and the government's playing this game too,

756
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,920
where like, don't look at this, actually just look at

757
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,519
the law and I've created for you to understand. And

758
00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:55,559
so now you're reading these documents, just tell me because

759
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:57,440
I'm not reading them. But I saw the last couple

760
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,280
of days you're digging down into sort of the new

761
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,800
files that are being let out. What's going to happen

762
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,880
with these files? Are they going to become quote mainstream?

763
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,800
Are people going to be able to finally say that

764
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,760
what's a conspiracy theories thought of as a conspiracy theory

765
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:19,960
is just actually a good theory. Because I'm troubled by this, well,

766
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,239
you know, to the.

767
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: To be fair to the boomers, I think that that

768
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:31,039
generation was subjected to a lot of really intense social

769
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:34,400
engineering and brainwashing from the establishment, and I think that

770
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,639
it's just sort of the there's just limitations in certain

771
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,079
generations as to how much that generation is able to

772
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:46,559
decode and understand from younger generations. And so for example,

773
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:49,800
you know, you could you can be an eighteen year old,

774
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,639
fifteen year old on the internet and you immediately you

775
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:58,039
have more access within five minutes to what people who

776
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:04,320
were CIA directors had under Carter. So that's how crazy

777
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,840
the information the speed of you know, immediacy doesn't mean

778
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,159
it's all right, there's a lot of disinformation, but still, like,

779
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:13,679
I think that a lot of people in that generation

780
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:19,039
just just can't really fathom or function with that level

781
00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:27,119
of revolutionary information feed Does that make sense, Yeah, it does.

782
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:28,519
And so in other words, you know, you can be

783
00:43:28,559 --> 00:43:33,519
eighteen and understand false flags seventeen, and you know, you've

784
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:35,719
got people who are baby boomers who don't even and

785
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,639
still don't understand what that is and.

786
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: Still can't grapple with that.

787
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,199
Speaker 2: And so I think with the JFK stuff, even though

788
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,880
it's kind of an you know, JFK and UFOs, that

789
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,159
was like the only two quote conspiracies that the baby

790
00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:52,119
boomer generation was able to entertain, or you know, Cold

791
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:56,119
War communism as a perhaps a conspiracy theory they entertained,

792
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,000
But really understanding the way the world works is just

793
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:01,679
a lot easier for people to decipher now because of

794
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,719
the prevalence of information, and you know, just this is

795
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,079
just yet another trove of you know, admissions, I guess,

796
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:14,280
but I don't know that it's going to affect that

797
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,440
generation anymore than any of the other rights.

798
00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: That's I think that's brilliant that generation and mind to

799
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,159
an extent. It's going to be hard to unpack that

800
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:30,079
stuff unless you've had some really wild experiences. I think, yeah,

801
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,960
like you were talking about on your feed, lemurs were

802
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:39,679
being trained to use matches, lights, fire, Well, they were

803
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:41,719
dosing dolphins with LSD.

804
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: They were, you know, experimenting with animals. Jahlly and West

805
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:47,119
used to give LSD to elephants as part of the

806
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,599
N culture experiments. So they were doing all kinds of

807
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,719
crazy stuff. That doesn't mean it res alt successful or profitable,

808
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,079
but I mean, yeah, they were doing all kinds of stuff.

809
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: But most people can't hear lemurs with matches and then

810
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,400
hear the next sentence you say, they bail out of

811
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,159
the whole idea at that point. But I don't think.

812
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:07,199
I think leaners with matches is going to become more

813
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:09,800
and more normal, Like I think the crazy stuff's going

814
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,400
to become real stuff. I've always said this, Jay, tell

815
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,039
me what you think, and then I'll give you this quiz,

816
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:17,280
because I think the guys that I know, really want

817
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,079
you to take it. It's fun. It's fun. It's not

818
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,639
don't worry, it's fun. But I think this tell me

819
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:28,079
what you think. There's no such thing as a conspiracy theory.

820
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:31,440
There's just theories that lean toward good and true and

821
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:35,719
theories that lean toward bad and wrong. Like I just

822
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,039
think everyone has a theory, and then the question is

823
00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:40,719
is tell me, okay, now tell me about it, and

824
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,559
pretty soon you'll find out that that's pretty dumb. I

825
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:46,280
don't know what a conspiracy theory is. I don't know

826
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,199
what they're talking about.

827
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: Well, it's a weaponized term from the JFK era. It's

828
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,039
a CIA term that they explicitly mentioned would be a

829
00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:58,039
good way to discredit people that question the findings or

830
00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:01,400
the assessment of the warrant commissions. So the term itself

831
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:06,159
was loaded and weighted to scandalize or to demonize anybody

832
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:07,519
great questions about the government.

833
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: But here we are.

834
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: The declassification of the documents pretty much vindicates the so

835
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:18,239
called conspiracy theorists. When I was back in the undergrad

836
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,159
or semi grad school, I realize that a lot of

837
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:26,239
what we're talking about is really just espionage theory because

838
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,480
espionage is real.

839
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that goes on.

840
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 2: We all have heard since twenty sixteen endless nonsense from

841
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,800
the Establishment that Donald Trump was a secret agent of

842
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,480
Putin and a Russian operative, all of which has been

843
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:45,280
dealt and discredited. So the establishment itself engages in conspiracy

844
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,400
theorism when it's amenable to their perspective. So yeah, I mean,

845
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,159
that's that's really what it is. And a lot of

846
00:46:54,199 --> 00:46:58,920
the focus from my side of stuff geopolitically the last

847
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,320
early years has been about espionage stuff because I inadvertently

848
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,079
gotten interested in that through studying Hollywood and studying the

849
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:08,320
history of people like Ian Fleming and their life story

850
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,440
and you know, his role and real operations that he

851
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:15,199
put into, you know, Bond stories. So if you think

852
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,159
about it in that way, And I always say this

853
00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:22,360
because you know, every boomer I know loves war documentaries

854
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,960
and war stories, and they love World War Two and

855
00:47:25,079 --> 00:47:27,320
Normandy and d Day, and they love hearing about the

856
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,960
Civil War and read this and I'm like, well, not

857
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,960
a much of conspiracy theorizing and espionage by much of

858
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,320
the operatives and deception and the war and a mascale.

859
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,199
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but don't exist no more. I was doing.

860
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,679
Speaker 2: Well, what you mean does governments are still doing this

861
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:43,639
now what he's talking about.

862
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:47,679
Speaker 1: So Sam, like, you don't love America that's your problem. Well,

863
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:48,239
I don't love.

864
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:50,559
Speaker 2: I mean, look at what dose is uncovered, right, I

865
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:56,639
mean massive amounts of corruption, money laundering with just one

866
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,880
cut out USA I D. I mean there's many more.

867
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:03,039
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they're leaning hard on USA D. Although

868
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,360
I did a pod where I talk about I hope

869
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:11,039
people go watch it where I've been on USAID contracts

870
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:13,880
in various places overseas when I was doing this work,

871
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,400
and I didn't see super nefarious stuff, but I saw

872
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,480
a lot of really politically motivated, dumb stuff just like

873
00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:24,679
they're talking about. And it's real. I've said it for

874
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:29,360
twenty five years doing this work. But USAID, you know whatever.

875
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,320
By the way, it was not by luck that they

876
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,920
came up with United States Aid and it's got absolutely

877
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,320
nothing to do with that, so that itself is a

878
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:36,920
move right.

879
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, you know, tens of millions of

880
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,440
dollars given to in one case, the most liberal Lutheran organizations,

881
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,679
the ones that push skills, women, bishops, this kind of stuff.

882
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:54,320
I mean, I can keep going on this subject. But

883
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:56,960
like you know, you go into the Cold War stuff.

884
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:58,679
Speaker 1: This is one of the.

885
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:02,199
Speaker 2: Ways in which the Cia went and made alliances with

886
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,360
the Papacy during the Cold War, under the guise of

887
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,000
finding the Soviets, well, we gotta have these alliances or

888
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:10,039
else we can't win. But the problem is that when

889
00:49:10,079 --> 00:49:13,519
you come out of the Cold War, you're now tied

890
00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:16,760
at the hip to these new masters, right, and they're

891
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,360
going to be telling you, you know, we'd like you

892
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,960
to go along with Davos, We'd like you to go

893
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,000
along with worldlock Economic Forum, we'd like you to go

894
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:27,440
along with UNESCO, all of which are horrible institutions. And

895
00:49:27,679 --> 00:49:31,280
that's kind of where you see from Francis in the

896
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,960
Vatican to you know, superstructure going. So that's the downside

897
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,639
of it is that I understand the logic of the

898
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:41,800
Cold War, but you know, the state is always going

899
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,679
to have a desire to influence and change the Church.

900
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,400
They've always tried to do that, back to the Aryan emperors,

901
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,199
to Iconoclass emperors, you know, Charlemagne. You know, you've got

902
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:54,480
these people in the state who want to create a

903
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,400
state church, and that's the Soviets. Did the same thing,

904
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,360
so you know, it's just church really, it's not really

905
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:02,639
conspiracy theory.

906
00:50:03,199 --> 00:50:06,599
Speaker 1: That's church history. Well, I think Paul kings North he

907
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:11,639
recently did that talk essentially to Catholics at first things

908
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:17,079
the magazine, and he kind of was saying Christianity is

909
00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:20,840
martyr Martyrham is not civilization building. In the end, you'll

910
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,760
build your civilization through the blood of the martyrs. It's

911
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:24,559
not a plan.

912
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 3: That you're going to fulfill. And you know you just

913
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,800
need one more big billionaire. It's not going to work

914
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:33,679
right now, is what you do? Is that the same

915
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,519
as the magazine? Are those connected?

916
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: No? Unfortunately, when Ryan and I the founder eight years ago,

917
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,599
came up with our name, we knew about the magazine,

918
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:48,480
but I just thought I would just overcome the magazine.

919
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:50,960
But it didn't work like that. It's not gonna But

920
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:55,400
on some level, no, we're not connected at all. So

921
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:58,360
on some level, there is no level on which we're connected.

922
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,760
But although I'll go talk want to maybe maybe this

923
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,519
will get them to let me go talk it first

924
00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:05,840
sex all right, you ready for this. It's called the

925
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,159
Lito meter. I'll record your number and then at the

926
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,519
end you're going to have a number, and the number,

927
00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:15,480
like I said, it would be tattooed on your soul.

928
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:17,280
And I can't help you at that point. You just

929
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,119
have to work with it. Okay, Well, what does this

930
00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:24,039
stand for? The LTO meter is a test that tells

931
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:28,400
you how new world, how enlightened you are, as per

932
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:32,960
the enlightenment itself. And I'm assuming that's a bad thing

933
00:51:33,039 --> 00:51:37,039
about Well, it could be good, it could be bad.

934
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:39,760
I don't know. It's it's just as you would like

935
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,400
to know, Jay, I have a number. I'll share it

936
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,719
with you after I'm done, and it changed my life

937
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:51,000
or wherever. Here's your you're your answer. It's five questions

938
00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:54,280
and then we'll get a number for each and then

939
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,239
i'll tell you the categories and then i'll reveal who

940
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,800
you are and so you can continue your life. When

941
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,880
you die, Jay, you won't really die all the way.

942
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,599
It's more like you'll be asleep waiting for a next

943
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,639
world of some sort. So that's the question. I'll read

944
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:18,960
it again. You're going to answer three strongly agree, two

945
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:27,480
I agree with that, one disagree, or zero strongly disagree,

946
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:31,599
zero I strongly disagree, three I strongly agree, and one

947
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:34,000
or two are sort of in the middle, and so

948
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,079
you could tell scientific this is. We ran this through. Mit,

949
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,280
they're cool with it. We're ready to roll. So I'm

950
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,239
going to read the question again and you give me

951
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,840
a number. Sound good? Okay, Look, I can tell it's

952
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:52,239
hurting your brain right now because it's it's complicated. Ready, yep, Okay,

953
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,119
don't be nervous when you die, Ja, You won't really

954
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:57,440
die all the way. It's more like you're asleep or something,

955
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,519
waiting for a next world of some sort. To one, zero,

956
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,119
A one because that's ambiguous. The question is phrased ambiguously

957
00:53:09,159 --> 00:53:12,880
because that could suggest soul sleep, which is a hare sit,

958
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:17,559
but it also could suggest continuing on and the soul

959
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:20,519
after death. In terms of toll houses, it could suggest

960
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,079
different things. So I'm gonna say I'm attempted with zero,

961
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,360
but I'm gonna say one good one. You generally disagree,

962
00:53:26,519 --> 00:53:31,320
and also you have exhibited problems with the question itself

963
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,079
with the test makers. I like that. That's a very

964
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,559
very new world of view. Here's the second question. Don't

965
00:53:37,679 --> 00:53:40,880
question the test makers, Jay, come on, buddy, all right.

966
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,719
Two the best way for me for you or I'll

967
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,639
read it in the first person. The best way for

968
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:52,199
me to know myself is to ask someone else about me.

969
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,440
So the best way for you, Jaya, to know yourself

970
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:59,280
is to ask someone else about yourself. Three strongly agree,

971
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:05,199
zero strong disagree. One in two in the middle, I would.

972
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:11,119
Speaker 2: Say three because that aligns even with Plato's apology, helenic

973
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,239
was done an alignance with the orthodox ethos of having

974
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,199
a spiritual father to bounce your assessments off of, so

975
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,400
you don't just rely on yourself.

976
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: I like that, So not as much of an issue

977
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:28,199
with the question that time. You were happy with that question. Okay,

978
00:54:29,159 --> 00:54:30,920
this is a big deal for me to test this

979
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:36,280
against you, a sharp minded gentleman like yourself. Number three,

980
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:41,800
we're almost done well closer when again, I'll read it

981
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,960
in a second party, when you carry a picture around

982
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:48,960
someone that you love, Jay, maybe your wife, and it's

983
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:52,559
let's say it's in your wallet or something, and that

984
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,679
carrying around of that picture is actually kind of carrying

985
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,559
that person around with you. It's they're there in some way,

986
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:05,800
they're actually close to you when you carry that picture around.

987
00:55:08,159 --> 00:55:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I strongly agree with that. That's our principle behind iconography.

988
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 1: See, guys, when I give this to non. When it's

989
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,079
the secular people, as we do on the show, they

990
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:23,159
don't do those cool little insights like you do. They

991
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:28,360
mostly go, what is this about? Here's number four. Respect

992
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:35,840
isn't earned. Respect is owed by me to others, me

993
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,280
j diar to to others. Yes, correct, strongly agree is three.

994
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:45,480
Two is agree, One is disagree, zero is strongly disagree.

995
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to say this is an ambiguous one

996
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:57,159
because in some cases it just depends on what we

997
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,480
mean by respect. I mean, I'm not For example, if

998
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:02,440
someone breaks into my house, you know they're trying.

999
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,559
Speaker 1: To take my wife, they do not.

1000
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 2: They facto immediately deserve respect. If I'm talking to them

1001
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,400
the person in a conversation, they probably de facto deserve respect.

1002
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say agree, I don't know.

1003
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: I strongly agree.

1004
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 1: Two. I like what you're doing there. Well, this is

1005
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:27,239
a philosopher's thing.

1006
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 2: They look for the ambiguities and the questions because the

1007
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,480
ambiguities might suggest a trap in a debate or something

1008
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:34,719
like that.

1009
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's nice. I won't give this away except for

1010
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,480
to give it away for a second. When people are

1011
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:44,280
really interested in the what's the right word for it,

1012
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,360
the mechanics of the question or as you're saying the ambiguities,

1013
00:56:48,159 --> 00:56:51,639
they tend to score lower. By lower here, I mean

1014
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,199
their number is smaller because they're doing a type of

1015
00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:59,039
philosophical investigation, which we'll get to in a second number five.

1016
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:04,360
Last question, you fully hope and expect to take care

1017
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,159
of your parents and take them in as they get older,

1018
00:57:08,679 --> 00:57:10,440
and to take care of them when they get older

1019
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,159
and infirmed. Or if your parents aren't with you now,

1020
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:17,440
then you fully expect your kids to take you in

1021
00:57:18,719 --> 00:57:21,039
when you get older and infirmed, and to live with you,

1022
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:25,960
preferably in the same house that vision of life. Do

1023
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,320
you strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree.

1024
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: Agree, And the reason I wouldn't say strongly agree is

1025
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:39,480
that not in every situation does that person want to

1026
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,519
live with you. For example, my dad has illnesses, he

1027
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:46,199
doesn't want to live with me, but we do participate

1028
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:49,000
in helping him. So his answer on that would be

1029
00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:52,599
like a strongly disagree in terms of his own person

1030
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,199
living with you, No.

1031
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:55,719
Speaker 1: He would not.

1032
00:57:56,119 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 2: He's a very independent minded military per He does not

1033
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:03,679
want to live with me or my brother. Yeah, but

1034
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,760
we do help him out and I think that absolutely,

1035
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,239
you have a biblical duty to help your family members.

1036
00:58:11,199 --> 00:58:15,639
Speaker 1: There they become old. There it is, here's your We

1037
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:18,559
added it all up. It happened, you know with Ai.

1038
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:21,559
We did it and added it up while you were talking. Right.

1039
00:58:21,639 --> 00:58:25,719
Then your score is eleven. So I'm going to just

1040
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,239
grab this here as we tend to do on this show,

1041
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,800
and you can see I don't know if you can

1042
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,880
see it, but there's an actual You can go to

1043
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,599
the website, Jay, and I can actually see that there

1044
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:39,559
is a lighter, major proven science money back guarantee. Now

1045
00:58:39,679 --> 00:58:41,280
I'm going to read from it. You can find this

1046
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,679
on the website. I'm going to read what you're not.

1047
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:48,440
First of all, at eleven, you are not the high nooner.

1048
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,159
I can I share with you what you're not. If

1049
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:53,039
you had scored between a two and a four, then

1050
00:58:53,119 --> 00:58:56,199
you would have been you know well, as it says here,

1051
00:58:56,239 --> 00:59:00,559
the shining down like a halo from a perfectly engineered drone.

1052
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,079
Science illuminates your every move, Jay, But you're not this.

1053
00:59:05,239 --> 00:59:08,039
You're not the high nooner. You probably know exactly how

1054
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:10,719
the drone works. You love manuals, You trust your brain

1055
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,599
more than your mother. This is not you. You're not this person.

1056
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:19,159
You're silly. So I'm not Voltaire. I mean correct, you're

1057
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:23,320
not Voltaire. It's been proven. Okay, you're not. Also the

1058
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,239
shining city dweller on the hill. You're not this person, Jay,

1059
00:59:27,239 --> 00:59:30,920
You're you. You have lots of hope for the modern

1060
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:35,039
world because you trust spreadsheets and Reddit. That's not you.

1061
00:59:35,559 --> 00:59:38,000
If people would just follow a reason, we could have

1062
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:41,039
all we could all have more stuff. That's not you.

1063
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,199
That's not you. You think Columbus was heavy handed, but

1064
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:46,280
also if you think about it for a minute, he

1065
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,320
was kind of a badass. That's not you. That's not you,

1066
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,000
j You are, in fact a villager. You scored an eleven,

1067
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:57,800
so you're a We call you a cuspy villager. And

1068
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,599
here's where you are, Jay, And I want you to

1069
00:59:59,639 --> 01:00:02,480
take this. I'm you're happy to. I'll send you the

1070
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:04,639
actual words if you'd like, you can. I can send

1071
01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:08,360
you a plaque if you want one. Uh, there's there's

1072
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,679
a good chance, Jay, that you hate mals. No one

1073
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,480
in your family likes your Spotify collection, mostly because it

1074
01:00:17,639 --> 01:00:26,000
includes discordant chants from places no one can identify. You

1075
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:30,000
always eat the one menu item that makes people nervous.

1076
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:35,199
You obey pedestrian traffic lights incessantly. Jay. You do that

1077
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,480
and you're told you look and act just like your

1078
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:42,760
aging father. But somehow that's a compliment. That's you, Jay.

1079
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,119
Outhouses make you happy. Ladies and gentlemen. We've identified j

1080
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,639
and now you can go out into the world Jay,

1081
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:53,679
and you know who you are? Okay.

1082
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,599
Speaker 2: Now, the irony of this test is that if you're

1083
01:00:56,639 --> 01:01:00,440
running it through algorithms and mit, it's completely modern.

1084
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: Correct. That's a little ironic. I mean we're even taking tests.

1085
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,239
Speaker 2: You have an AI test that will tell you how

1086
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:10,599
trad and vase you are.

1087
01:01:10,719 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: Okay, come on, man, how else are we going to

1088
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,559
get along in this world? I just feel better. I

1089
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:20,440
feel like a lot of people were wondering where you

1090
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,920
You know who you were? Jay, and now we know? Uh,

1091
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,800
will you come back sometime and keep doing what you're doing?

1092
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,119
Speaker 2: And there are any time about It was a great,

1093
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:31,480
great podcast, a lot of fun.

1094
01:01:32,159 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: Thank you man, that's Jay Barred. Guys. Hey, what's what's up?

1095
01:01:36,519 --> 01:01:38,440
What's going on with you? Anything you want to share

1096
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,800
before we hang up? What's going on with you out there?

1097
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,159
Just usual stuff? On YouTube?

1098
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:50,239
Speaker 2: You can find me live streaming regularly, everything from geopolitics

1099
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:55,679
to film analysis, to open debates to even we've been

1100
01:01:55,719 --> 01:01:58,920
doing more literary analysis lately. In the last six eight months.

1101
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:03,199
We've done a lot of books Joseph Conrad, We've done

1102
01:02:03,679 --> 01:02:08,039
William Golding. Yeah, we've we've expanded.

1103
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:08,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1104
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,599
Speaker 2: So that's there, and you can find me on all

1105
01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:14,000
the social media outlets under my name.

1106
01:02:15,719 --> 01:02:19,239
Speaker 1: Are you far from us at the restaurant? Now? I

1107
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:24,159
were in Greenville? Can you come to the restaurant sometimes

1108
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,119
if you ever, if you're ever in the South? Yeah, yeah,

1109
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:29,760
I mean we'll invite you.

1110
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:34,639
Speaker 2: We're between you know, Florida, Tennessee, so okay, but yeah,

1111
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:36,519
I'd love to do that. And then I got my

1112
01:02:36,599 --> 01:02:39,599
third book, Ester Collegwood three. I just completed that a

1113
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:42,039
few weeks ago, so that'll be available in the next

1114
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:45,039
couple of months. Beautiful, So looking forward to to getting

1115
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:45,519
that out there.

1116
01:02:45,519 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: It was a lot.

1117
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: It was a little a little challenging because I hadn't

1118
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,400
been in the mode of writing. I've been doing so

1119
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,880
many videos and podcasts that, you know, going back to writing,

1120
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,440
if you haven't been heavy on that for five or

1121
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,760
six years, it's kind of a kind of get back

1122
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,239
in the mindset of writing, so and then I write

1123
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,760
for the Sam Hide Show, so you can find me there.

1124
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,000
I think the episode four will be coming out pretty soon,

1125
01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:11,480
so that's usually on all the social media outlets as well.

1126
01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: Are you writing for Sam Hid right on? That's nice. Yeah,

1127
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:17,039
I couldn't believe it.

1128
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: But that first episode, which I contributed a decent amount

1129
01:03:20,039 --> 01:03:23,679
to a viral, So we got about twenty million views

1130
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:27,559
on that first one between between Twitter and YouTube, and

1131
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:28,719
I loved it.

1132
01:03:28,719 --> 01:03:32,719
Speaker 1: It was crazy. I loved it all right, I'll share,

1133
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,639
we'll link and you know, and maybe I'll send you

1134
01:03:36,679 --> 01:03:39,039
some of our stuff every now and then and hopefully

1135
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:42,880
it makes it into your world, but mostly pray for us. Okay.

1136
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:45,719
Speaker 2: Likewise, yeah, you should come on my podcast sometimes too.

1137
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,719
We have a good conversation about you and your past.

1138
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,920
But yeah, you can message me anytime, and you got

1139
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,079
my number and you let's stay in touch with left link.

1140
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: There's a cool connection with the film we can make

1141
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,199
and we could talk about that forever and ever.

1142
01:03:57,559 --> 01:04:01,679
Speaker 2: Oh, the Christianity film. I got one question before I go,

1143
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,639
is that is that separate from where Tucker was talking

1144
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:07,960
about the experience of the demonic or.

1145
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,719
Speaker 1: Thanks you're asking. So that is in the film, and

1146
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,239
that's a longer We spent all day talking to him.

1147
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:17,039
That's a there's a much longer piece to that where

1148
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:20,480
we sit and interview him about Christianities. What does a

1149
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:23,079
Christian how does it all work? That was a teaser

1150
01:04:23,119 --> 01:04:26,039
so that we could continue the fundraising, which is going

1151
01:04:26,199 --> 01:04:29,320
very well. So we're working on that. Okay, yeah, gotcha.

1152
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,840
Why don't you come on and we'll talk.

1153
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:33,559
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll get Scooter come on too with you and

1154
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:35,719
we'll talk about we can talk about that film.

1155
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: Oh, why don't we that's a that's a no brainer.

1156
01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:40,880
So I'll hit you, I'll hit you up on the

1157
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,360
phone and then we'll just spoke of time. Scooter would

1158
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,400
love that. Man. Yeah, okay, thank you God bless men.

1159
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,679
Take care. Likewise, we'll see you too, guys. That's it.

1160
01:04:51,519 --> 01:04:54,800
That's it. Jay is a villager. You know, we've gotten

1161
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,000
away from the ladder Meter and now we're back in it.

1162
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,320
I think we're going to give it to everybody. By

1163
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,159
the way, what was it? Part of Jay's lighter Meter

1164
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,679
test is that he was critiquing the test itself and

1165
01:05:05,679 --> 01:05:08,079
then at the end he saw the actual problem with it.

1166
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:09,719
See this is what happens when you bring a debater,

1167
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,599
guy on, we can bring a When you bring a mind,

1168
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,679
it's ready to clap trap stuff. What happens is the

1169
01:05:15,719 --> 01:05:18,440
clap trap your test and turning it into a ludicris

1170
01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:22,679
a ludicrous test because obviously there's a lighter media test

1171
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,400
is a light person test, the Lightenment test to try

1172
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,039
to test and see how and lighten draw. If you

1173
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:32,519
go to www dot first things dot org you can

1174
01:05:32,519 --> 01:05:38,400
find the test. It's in it's under discover somewhere Andrew

1175
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:41,440
link it. If you take the test. When you're done,

1176
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:43,480
then what will happen is you'll be like, oh, this

1177
01:05:43,559 --> 01:05:46,239
is who I am, and then you don't have to

1178
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:50,199
do anything else. Maybe confession. It's not a bad idea,

1179
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,199
but I mean, you can't really just skip out of

1180
01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:55,280
all the things the church asks you, or if you're not,

1181
01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:57,880
if you're not a religious person listening to this, you

1182
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:02,559
can't just skip out of life because you have the

1183
01:06:02,679 --> 01:06:06,760
number now. But what you can do is sleep profoundly well.

1184
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:10,280
Once you have your number, you sleep like a baby.

1185
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:15,119
You just sleep, you just just like I'm sleeping, because

1186
01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:18,760
it will be so wonderful to know who you are,

1187
01:06:19,679 --> 01:06:24,440
you won't have anxiety. Goodbye, doing in next time. Who

1188
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,960
loves you on heavy things lightly,