Speaker 1: Section thirteen of the Roswell Report Case Closed by James
Speaker 1: mc andrew. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings
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Speaker 1: Roswell Report Case Closed by James mc andrew. Appendix C,
Speaker 1: Part two Interviews. Transcript of interview with w. Glen Dennis,
Speaker 1: alleged first hand witness to events at the Roswell Army
Speaker 1: Airfield Hospital footnote w Glen Dennis interview with Carl T. Flock,
Speaker 1: November two, nineteen ninety two, and of footnote question, you
Speaker 1: started getting calls from the base mortuary officer. Is that
Speaker 1: right sometime in the afternoon on someday in July nineteen
Speaker 1: forty seven, Dennis, Right afternoon, yeah. Question. Do you recall
Speaker 1: was that before the story appeared in the Roswell Daily Record? Dennis?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure it was. I can't honestly say,
Speaker 1: but I don't think the paper came out until the
Speaker 1: next day. I don't think I'm just assuming that question.
Speaker 1: I understand when things like that happened to me way
Speaker 1: after the fact. I try to remember, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure if you had any recollection or not. It was
Speaker 1: the base mortuary officer who called you, not any of
Speaker 1: the MD's out there, Dennis, No question. He was just
Speaker 1: the mortuary officer, was just the guy. Dennis. We used
Speaker 1: to have a standing joke, what did you do that
Speaker 1: was so bad that made you the mortuary officer? Question?
Speaker 1: Exactly Dennis. He wasn't a doctor or anything, but he
Speaker 1: was an officer and he was probably some old boy
Speaker 1: that was trying to figure out something to do with.
Speaker 1: We used to all have them come in. Even the
Speaker 1: officer himself say, god, I didn't know I screwed up
Speaker 1: that bad. Question. Was this a guy you'd worked with before,
Speaker 1: somebody you knew real well? Dennis, No, those guys come
Speaker 1: and go question. I realized that you don't remember what
Speaker 1: his name was or anything like that. Dennis. No, I'm
Speaker 1: like Bob Shirkey. I think if I would see it
Speaker 1: or hurt it or something, I might Those guys they
Speaker 1: were in and out the mortuary officer. Usually they would
Speaker 1: appoint some sergeant or somebody. The only time the doctors
Speaker 1: were involved is when you'd have an embalming inspection or
Speaker 1: dress inspection, where the doctors came in and examined the
Speaker 1: body to make sure everything was right. You had another
Speaker 1: inspection to make sure they're dog tags, make sure all
Speaker 1: the metals and everything. They always had two crews of inspectors.
Speaker 1: The doctors were only involved in the cause of death
Speaker 1: or the autopsies or identification process, dental charts and all that.
Speaker 1: After they did their work, then a doctor would always
Speaker 1: come in and make sure the body was embalmed because
Speaker 1: they knew more about it than the other people. But
Speaker 1: they were involved before. You know. Question, the reason they
Speaker 1: contacted you was because Bert Ballard's funeral home up here
Speaker 1: had a contract with the base, right Dennis, Yeah. Question.
Speaker 1: You worked for Bert for a lot of years, didn't you. Dennis, Yeah,
Speaker 1: A long time. Question. When did you first go to
Speaker 1: work for him? Dennis, I went to work for him.
Speaker 1: I was hanging around the funeral home when I was
Speaker 1: like a freshman in high school. I'd want to make
Speaker 1: some extra money. I'll give you fifty cents to watch
Speaker 1: the hearse. I knew his daughter real well, we were
Speaker 1: all in school together. That's where I really got involved
Speaker 1: in the funeral home. I just kind of worked my
Speaker 1: way into it question. He basically taught you the trade
Speaker 1: and all that. Dennis, Oh, yeah, my folks weren't in
Speaker 1: the funeral business question. The reason I was curious about
Speaker 1: it was because when I went back, I'm one of
Speaker 1: those guys that goes to Washington and then gets fed
Speaker 1: up and leaves and swears I'm never going to go back,
Speaker 1: and then I go back anyway. But the last time
Speaker 1: I went back and did that, I shared a townhouse
Speaker 1: with a guy for a while who was a mortician
Speaker 1: from Michigan. But he had to go through all this
Speaker 1: formal training and all this rigormarole. Dennis, No, that started
Speaker 1: in inaudible. Maybe you don't want to hear this, but
Speaker 1: I was in the ninth grade and this teacher was
Speaker 1: going around and wanted us to write a composition on
Speaker 1: what we wanted to be when we graduated from high school.
Speaker 1: What were our future plans. I was kind of a
Speaker 1: wise guy. I guess I must have been, But I
Speaker 1: said undertaker, and I don't even know why. All the
Speaker 1: girls squealed, so I got a little attention. Then she said, Okay,
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to do, then you've got
Speaker 1: a week. You bring me your composition. I want to
Speaker 1: know why you want to be an undertaker. So I
Speaker 1: went to the funeral home. They didn't have any books
Speaker 1: in those days or anything, but that's where I went.
Speaker 1: That's why I got involved in it started. Question how
Speaker 1: long were you in that business before you? I know
Speaker 1: you ran the Wortley Hotel up in Lincoln, New Mexico. Dennis, Oh,
Speaker 1: that was after I retired. Question Oh, I see you
Speaker 1: retired from the mortuary business. Dennis. Oh. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: in the funeral business thirty three years. Question all the
Speaker 1: time with Ballard Dennis Oh, No, I had my own
Speaker 1: funeral home over in Las Crusis, New Mexico and one
Speaker 1: in SoCoRo, New Mexico. Question Oh, okay, speaking of that,
Speaker 1: do you know Norman Todd or his family? Dennis, his
Speaker 1: dad and I took the State board together. He was
Speaker 1: at Clovis, New Mexico. Norman's son, isn't it? Question? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a lawyer over in Las Crusis, New Mexico. His
Speaker 1: Dennis wasn't his dad the funeral director in Clovis, New Mexico. Question?
Speaker 1: I think so. The reason I know him is because
Speaker 1: Mike Cook, who is Steve schiff's press secretary and he
Speaker 1: have been friends ever since they were in kindergarten together.
Speaker 1: It turns out that Iris Todd, I guess his stepmother
Speaker 1: is the niece of Loretta Proctor. So talk about small world.
Speaker 1: You got these calls from the mortuary officer who was
Speaker 1: asking you all these questions. We don't have to go
Speaker 1: back through all this. Then at some point you decided
Speaker 1: to go out to the base. What took you to
Speaker 1: the base, Dennis? At some point I didn't decide that's
Speaker 1: not correct. Somebody wrote that, but I don't think it's right.
Speaker 1: The way I ended up out at the base later
Speaker 1: we had the ambulance service. The way I got it
Speaker 1: the ambulance service. I got a call was an airman
Speaker 1: that was hurt. I took him to the base the
Speaker 1: best I remember. He wasn't on a stretcher or anything,
Speaker 1: because he walked up the ramp and he sat up
Speaker 1: in the front seat with me, so he weren't real
Speaker 1: bad and weren't dying anyway. This guy walked in. I
Speaker 1: walked him in where I usually parked the ambulance. There
Speaker 1: was a field ambulance there. I had to go back
Speaker 1: up to the front the irmin and I walked up
Speaker 1: the ramps. That's why I went to the base. Question.
Speaker 1: The hospital in those days was apparently a complex of buildings,
Speaker 1: right Dennis, Yeah, kind of like Bob Shirky said, like
Speaker 1: the Officers Club. They're all wooden barrack types. Question. So
Speaker 1: the building that's out there now, the rehab center, is
Speaker 1: a completely new building and had nothing to do with that, Shirky. No,
Speaker 1: think of a long walkway like a tunnel attached to
Speaker 1: the front of a series of question. I know just
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, Dennis, with a little way between
Speaker 1: each building the best I remember it isn't that, right,
Speaker 1: Bob Shirky. Yeah, here was the building and you came
Speaker 1: out the front door, and you went down this walkway,
Speaker 1: which I just said, like a tunnel. You could see
Speaker 1: from one end to the other. But all these separate
Speaker 1: buildings which were different wings of the hospital. Question. This
Speaker 1: was the infirmary where you took the airmen, Right Dennis.
Speaker 1: There were some ramps there, I think the old ramps
Speaker 1: still there. It was. Anyway, that's the kind of buildings
Speaker 1: they were. You don't see it today, No question. I
Speaker 1: knew that the building, most of it was new, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if they built onto it. Dennis. That
Speaker 1: had been worked over two or three times. Question. When
Speaker 1: you look at it, it looks like it's been one
Speaker 1: of these things where they've added things to it. So
Speaker 1: you pulled around behind the infirmary basically, Dennis, it was
Speaker 1: a pretty tight squeeze in there. You couldn't get very
Speaker 1: many cars in there. Question how many of those ambulances
Speaker 1: were back there? Dennis? There were three old box ambulances.
Speaker 1: I call them box ambulance. I guess you call them.
Speaker 1: I wasn't in the military, so I don't know what
Speaker 1: all the terms were. Question like these old field ambulances, Dennis,
Speaker 1: they've got the old square field ambulances, you know. Question
Speaker 1: the ermine walked up that ramp with you. Both of
Speaker 1: you guys went into Dennis. The ermin and I both
Speaker 1: went in Question, did he see that stuff? In Dennis?
Speaker 1: He wasn't paying any attention because he had I had
Speaker 1: a tourniquet and towel over his busted nose, and he
Speaker 1: went right on in question, got himself into a little
Speaker 1: trouble in town? Did he? Dennis rode an old motorcycle.
Speaker 1: The reason I remember it is because he had an
Speaker 1: old Indian motorcycle and I just bought one. I paid
Speaker 1: forty dollars for one, and he rode one and I
Speaker 1: didn't have any fenders, and I was thinking of maybe
Speaker 1: of question. So you took him in there, and then
Speaker 1: basically after you got him taken care of, you figure
Speaker 1: you'd go look up your friend the nurse. Let's get
Speaker 1: that straight, Dennis stan Friedman, I think somebody thought that
Speaker 1: I was having a relationship with this nurse. I was not.
Speaker 1: This girl wouldn't even think about going with me, and
Speaker 1: she was going strictly when she got her time paid
Speaker 1: back to the service. She was going into an order
Speaker 1: of the nuns sisters, and she was going to be
Speaker 1: in education. And later on she changed to the nursing deal.
Speaker 1: The only reason she was in it because her folks
Speaker 1: were in debt and she went in the service to
Speaker 1: get her education. She got her education, and then she
Speaker 1: was going to pay back the church what they owed her.
Speaker 1: Her whole thing in life was from the day she
Speaker 1: was born, her life was planned that she was going
Speaker 1: to be in an order. Question, did you did you
Speaker 1: ever tell you which order that was? Dennis? It was
Speaker 1: in Saint Paul, Minnesota. That's all I know. Question. That's
Speaker 1: where she was from, Dennis, That's where she was born
Speaker 1: and raised. She never went out of the city until
Speaker 1: she went to My understanding was she never went anywhere,
Speaker 1: and she never lived anywhere. She was raised up from
Speaker 1: the time, strictly raised by the church. That was the
Speaker 1: only life she ever planned. She wouldn't date a man
Speaker 1: if her life depended on it. She'd get around and
Speaker 1: talk and everything, but there was no way. But everybody
Speaker 1: said I was going to marry her, and that's bullshit. Question.
Speaker 1: The implication was that she was cute, and Dennis, she
Speaker 1: was cute. I could have been interested if I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have played second fiddle to the Catholic Church, because that's
Speaker 1: what she would have been. Question. How did you get
Speaker 1: to know her? Just being out there on the base, Dennis.
Speaker 1: The ambulance service, you go out there and you've got
Speaker 1: your splints on a guy, you've got first aid whatever.
Speaker 1: You can't just throw them off your stretcher. You maybe
Speaker 1: help them. Sometimes you're out there two hours or three.
Speaker 1: Then while you're waiting to get your equipment back, you
Speaker 1: sit in the coat room with the doctors and with
Speaker 1: the nurses quarters. That's where we always had our cokes
Speaker 1: and stuff. Question. So you just shoot the breeze with
Speaker 1: whoever's around, Dennis. You get to know these people. That's
Speaker 1: the only way. See she'd only been there less than
Speaker 1: three months. Of course, I'm a crazy son of a gun.
Speaker 1: Nearly everybody remembered her. She was a good looking little thing,
Speaker 1: a beautiful little girl. We thought she was kind of lonely. Question.
Speaker 1: As you well know, there's been a major effort to
Speaker 1: try to find her. Skip in tape. Dennis, she was
Speaker 1: out here less than three months. Question. So you went
Speaker 1: back there. Tell me what happened, Dennis. I started back there,
Speaker 1: and that's when I got in trouble. I saw this
Speaker 1: officer standing there, and I saw this debris in the
Speaker 1: back of the ambulance. Two of them was full of debris,
Speaker 1: like Bob Shirky. Saw a bunch of little stuff, and
Speaker 1: there was a couple of pretty good sized Question. Two
Speaker 1: of the three ambulances had stuff, Dennis. One of them's
Speaker 1: door was closed, but the other two there was two
Speaker 1: MPs standing right out kind of just leaning up against
Speaker 1: the back of those I remember. Question, did they challenge
Speaker 1: you when you tried to go in. Dennis, No, evidently,
Speaker 1: because I drove up with that airman and they just
Speaker 1: figured whatever another thing. When I was there, all the
Speaker 1: people that was there, that nurse was the only person
Speaker 1: I saw that was permanent station. Everybody else was all
Speaker 1: new in that whole hospital operation. Even in the Koch room.
Speaker 1: There wasn't anybody in there that I knew. I started
Speaker 1: back and got to the door, and I saw this pause.
Speaker 1: We've been friends for years, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk with him around. Question. So the stuff you saw
Speaker 1: you said it was not aluminum, Dennis, looked like hot
Speaker 1: stainless steel when it got hot, when you put flame
Speaker 1: on stainless. See, I do sculpture work and all that,
Speaker 1: and I know what the stuff looks like. Question. Oh
Speaker 1: you're a sculptor. I didn't know that, Dennis. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been doing it for years. I had my own foundry
Speaker 1: I did. I don't do it anymore. I have my
Speaker 1: stuff done. But anyway, this stuff was a blue purpleish.
Speaker 1: It looked like hot stainless steel is what it looked like.
Speaker 1: Steel that got hot. It didn't look like aluminum. It
Speaker 1: wasn't even melted like aluminum. I don't even think it
Speaker 1: was melted, just like a bunch of fragments. Question, But
Speaker 1: there were some bigger things in there besides the fragments, right, Dennis, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there were was two pieces anyway. Do you want to
Speaker 1: go back to the nurse question? Yes, please, Dennis. I
Speaker 1: started back see and this captain was standing there, and naturally,
Speaker 1: I just thought we had a plane crash. When we
Speaker 1: had that, we used to fill up the ambulances and
Speaker 1: everything else. It would inaudible for you to have a
Speaker 1: hand here or an arm or foot or something. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. Then you've got to get
Speaker 1: in and take all that stuff and separate it and
Speaker 1: put those bodies back together with identification. That's what you've
Speaker 1: got to do. I thought we had a crash. I
Speaker 1: saw this guy. I didn't know him. He was standing
Speaker 1: there at the door. Question just inside Dennis, just kind
Speaker 1: of standing like in between the door of this room
Speaker 1: up there. I was going down the hall. I said, sir,
Speaker 1: it looks like we had a plane crash. Do I
Speaker 1: need to go in and get ready for it? Question?
Speaker 1: This was an officer Dennis, Yeah, he was a captain.
Speaker 1: Remember the bars on his inaudible. He said, who are you.
Speaker 1: I told him I was from the funeral home, and
Speaker 1: he said, wait right here, don't move. Then he came back.
Speaker 1: That's when the two MP's came up. When the nurse
Speaker 1: came out, we started down the hall, and that's when
Speaker 1: somebody in the back of us said, bring that son
Speaker 1: of a bitch back. That's when the redheaded captain asked
Speaker 1: where the sergeant came in right there. Then they took
Speaker 1: me on out. As I was going down the hall,
Speaker 1: she came out of, like Bob said, out of this room,
Speaker 1: and there was two guys in back of her and
Speaker 1: they all had towels over their face. She saw me
Speaker 1: and she said, Glenn, what are you doing here? Get
Speaker 1: out of here. You're going to get in a lot
Speaker 1: of trouble. How did you get in here? She said
Speaker 1: that two or three times. She was sick. Question, this
Speaker 1: is when you were talking to that first officer, Dennis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he just told the MPs to take me back to
Speaker 1: the funeral home. Question. I just told them that, and
Speaker 1: then she appeared at that point, Dennis. He told them
Speaker 1: to take me to the funeral home. And we started
Speaker 1: down the hall, back out the hall, and that's when
Speaker 1: she came out of another room with these other two guys.
Speaker 1: What happened? She told me the next day. They were
Speaker 1: all sick because those little bodies were in those sacks,
Speaker 1: and two of them were very mangled, and the smell
Speaker 1: was horrible, and one was whole, and two of them
Speaker 1: were very badly mangled. Question. Did you get a whiff
Speaker 1: of that stuff yourself? Dennis, No, evidently not. If I
Speaker 1: would have, I would have known what it was. I
Speaker 1: worked on a hell of a lot of stuff. Question
Speaker 1: and that tape you talked about working on floaters and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Dennis. You know. Question. I
Speaker 1: haven't had professional experience in it, but I've been involved
Speaker 1: in it. Dennis, in New Mexico, you've got this hot,
Speaker 1: one hundred degree stuff, and you've got bodies out there
Speaker 1: two or three days and inaudible. Question this redheaded guy,
Speaker 1: what was his rank do you remember? Dennis? I think
Speaker 1: he was a captain. It seemed to me like he
Speaker 1: had on some bars. Question when he first appeared and
Speaker 1: started getting essentially pretty rough. Was the sergeant around at
Speaker 1: that time or did he show up? Dennis, he was
Speaker 1: kind of beside him. I think they were standing there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were definitely standing there together. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they walked in together, because I didn't see them until
Speaker 1: they turned me around. Question, was there a lot of
Speaker 1: activity at that time? Were there people, Dennis? People were everywhere?
Speaker 1: And the odd part of it was there wasn't anybody.
Speaker 1: Wasn't any of our regular people. These were odd people
Speaker 1: that I'd never seen before. That's why I got in
Speaker 1: so much trouble. I'd never seen these guys. Question, these
Speaker 1: were not any of the guys that would ordinarily recognize
Speaker 1: you as somebody who would Dennis. And they sure hell
Speaker 1: didn't want me there. You know that question when he says,
Speaker 1: get him out of there, the redhead. Did he make
Speaker 1: any threats to you himself? Did he say, don't say
Speaker 1: anything about this, forget it, Dennis? He said, just like that.
Speaker 1: He says, Now, listen, mister, you don't go back into
Speaker 1: town starting a bunch of damn rumors. This guy swore
Speaker 1: as much as I do. Anyway, He said, don't start
Speaker 1: a bunch of damn rumors because nothing happened out here.
Speaker 1: There's no plane crashes, nothing's happened. You don't go in
Speaker 1: and start. Then he told the MPs get the son
Speaker 1: of a bitch out of here. That's when I said,
Speaker 1: right then, I said, look, mister, I'm a civilian and
Speaker 1: you can't do a damn thing to me. You go
Speaker 1: to hell. That's when he said, listen, mister, somebody will
Speaker 1: be picking your bones out of the sand. Then the
Speaker 1: black sergeant said, sir, he would make good dog food
Speaker 1: or something like that. I remember the dog food. The
Speaker 1: next morning, at six o'clock, the sheriff was out at
Speaker 1: my dad's house and told my dad Glenn may be
Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble with the base, and tell
Speaker 1: him to keep his mouth shut. I never told my
Speaker 1: story to anybody, but my dad came up. I was
Speaker 1: living in a room at the funeral home. He came
Speaker 1: up and got me out of bed and wanted to
Speaker 1: know what I'd done. He was a very patriotic old man,
Speaker 1: and he said, if you've done anything against our government,
Speaker 1: I'll take care of it. Question. When was this, Dennis?
Speaker 1: The next morning? Question you were saying, what the heck,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Dennis? Yeah? I said, well, hey, he said.
Speaker 1: George Wilcox, the sheriff, and my dad were real good friends.
Speaker 1: And he said, George, tells me you're in a lot
Speaker 1: of trouble out there. He wasn't going to leave, and
Speaker 1: I told my dad the story. He got all upset
Speaker 1: because they threatened me and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I didn't see the nurse then until the next day.
Speaker 1: After I saw her, then I kept calling. When I
Speaker 1: got back to the funeral home, I started calling because
Speaker 1: she was in trouble and so was I. Question. It
Speaker 1: was the next morning, after you'd been hustled out of
Speaker 1: there that your dad came by to see you. Dennis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: six o'clock in the morning. Question, he'd been called by
Speaker 1: the sheriff. Dennis. The sheriff went to my mother and
Speaker 1: dad's house and at six o'clock. My dad always got
Speaker 1: up early, sat and had coffee. He was an old
Speaker 1: carpenter and building contractor. He and George were old friends
Speaker 1: because he used to go hunting and dad was making gunstocks,
Speaker 1: so they were good friends. They used to play some
Speaker 1: kind of domino games or forty two, whatever you call it.
Speaker 1: They were good friends. Question, So the sheriff went by
Speaker 1: to see your dad, Dennis. Dad said he was there
Speaker 1: at six o'clock. Question. The sheriff came by early in
Speaker 1: the morning, and then your dad immediately came from home
Speaker 1: and came to see you. Dennis. After George Wilcox left,
Speaker 1: my dad came up to the funeral home and wanted
Speaker 1: to know what I did. Question. Did your dad say
Speaker 1: why the sheriff. Had the sheriff been contacted by the
Speaker 1: base or Dennis. No, he just said he was concerned
Speaker 1: about what I'd done, how I'd got in trouble. Question.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what he told you about what Wilcox
Speaker 1: told him? Dennis? He just said, George said I was
Speaker 1: in trouble at the base and what did I do? Question? Then,
Speaker 1: after having this rude awakening you then did you call
Speaker 1: the nurse Dennis? Well? Yeah, this was in mid morning,
Speaker 1: I remember I finally I waited until kind of well,
Speaker 1: it must have been nine o'clock or so, and I called.
Speaker 1: I knew the workstation that she always worked at. She
Speaker 1: was a general nurse. They didn't specialize, just orderlies, and
Speaker 1: everybody was on general duty in those days. I was
Speaker 1: informed that she wasn't there, she wasn't working, She wasn't
Speaker 1: working that day. Question. It was one of the other
Speaker 1: nurses that you talked to, Dennis. Yeah, it was an
Speaker 1: old girl by the name of Wilson. Captain Wilson, I
Speaker 1: asked her, I said, what happened? She said, Glenn, I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened, but she's not on duty. I'll
Speaker 1: try to get the word to her that you want
Speaker 1: to talk to her. She was wanting to talk to me,
Speaker 1: but she was sick. She was in total shock. Question
Speaker 1: did she tell you later that she was sick? Dennis,
Speaker 1: I knew she was sick. She came out with that towel.
Speaker 1: She said, she and the two doctors were sick. Then
Speaker 1: at the Officers Club, she said, I want to know
Speaker 1: what happened to you, and I'll tell you what happened
Speaker 1: to me. The only way we ever got to the
Speaker 1: Officers Club, the old regular group said, you don't go
Speaker 1: anywhere you keep your mouth shut. Inaudible said that the
Speaker 1: old group they would have known us. It probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: have mattered, but these people held these people didn't know us.
Speaker 1: And of course I had a pass and I had
Speaker 1: an associate membership to the Officers Club the funeral home
Speaker 1: did so I could go as I pleased. I had
Speaker 1: free access to the base. Question did you meet her
Speaker 1: at the club? Dennis? She said she'd meet me over there.
Speaker 1: She was sick. She said, I'll meet you there. Question
Speaker 1: when you got there? She was at the club Dennis,
Speaker 1: She was walking up when I drove up, she walked over.
Speaker 1: It wasn't very far from the hospital. Question. She walked
Speaker 1: from the hospital or Dennis, from the nurses quarters. Question,
Speaker 1: let me back up to the event with the MPs.
Speaker 1: They physically hustled you out of the hospital Dennis. Well,
Speaker 1: they didn't carry me out. They said, come on, we're
Speaker 1: taking you back, one on each side. They didn't have
Speaker 1: their hands on me or forcing me. Question. I've forgotten
Speaker 1: which one of the accounts has them lifting you right
Speaker 1: off your feet and all that kind of of stuff. Dennis. No,
Speaker 1: they may have got me by the elbow, but that
Speaker 1: was that. They were nice guys. They were doing what
Speaker 1: they were told to do. Question. They got you to
Speaker 1: the ambulance. Did they follow you back to the funeral home? Dennis.
Speaker 1: One followed me in a pickup and the other one
Speaker 1: sat in the seat with me. Question, Oh, I see
Speaker 1: he actually rode with you in the ambulance. Dennis. He
Speaker 1: rode with me, and the other one drove a pickup
Speaker 1: and picked him up. They had a pickup. Question did
Speaker 1: the guy riding with you say anything about what was
Speaker 1: going on? Dennis? He said he didn't know what was
Speaker 1: going on. That was the first thing. I said, what
Speaker 1: the hell's going on? You know? He said, you know
Speaker 1: more about it than we do, something similar to that.
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact words, but he didn't know anything. Question.
Speaker 1: Now we're back to the Officers Club and you met
Speaker 1: her there. When you saw her, how did you look, Dennis,
Speaker 1: like a nervous wreck. Her hair wasn't combed or nothing.
Speaker 1: She said she'd been sick all night, crying and everything else,
Speaker 1: and she was still crying. She was hysterical. She put
Speaker 1: her hands over her face and said, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: The most horrible things she'd ever seen. She was really
Speaker 1: in bad shape. Question. You called her and wanted to
Speaker 1: get in touch with her to talk with her about
Speaker 1: what happened. Dennis. I was curious. Question. Did she seem
Speaker 1: reluctant at first to talk to you about it? Dennis? No,
Speaker 1: she said, I've got to talk to you. I want
Speaker 1: to know what happened to you. She said, I've got
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody. And that was it. You know,
Speaker 1: I'd seen her a lot. I knew all those old
Speaker 1: girls out there, you know. Question, did she give you
Speaker 1: any indication or any reason to believe that she had
Speaker 1: been told to keep her mouth shut about it or Dennis? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'll tell you what. She had this drawing on
Speaker 1: the back of a prescription pad, these little bodies. It
Speaker 1: was on the back, a little small thing on the
Speaker 1: back of a prescription pad. She said, I'm going to
Speaker 1: show you something, and you have to give me your
Speaker 1: sacred oath that you won't tell anybody when you got this,
Speaker 1: and you won't ever mention my name because I will
Speaker 1: get in a lot of trouble. That's what she said,
Speaker 1: I will get in a lot of trouble. Question. She
Speaker 1: didn't say specifically what somebody had Dennis, No, she just
Speaker 1: said I will get in a lot of trouble. She said,
Speaker 1: will you do that? I said sure. She showed me that,
Speaker 1: and she had it written on the back like I
Speaker 1: had it on the back of that. You have my
Speaker 1: drawing where I said, note and all that. That's what
Speaker 1: she said. Question, she let you keep that? She gave
Speaker 1: it to you. Dennis, Yeah, she said, you look at
Speaker 1: it and you throw it away. I never did. I
Speaker 1: went and took it back and put it in my
Speaker 1: personal file. Question which subsequently got tost Apparently, Dennis Well,
Speaker 1: all the files got tossed. Question, what happened Dennis Well
Speaker 1: the funeral home? I hired some guys. The manager up
Speaker 1: there now was there before I left? And Raymond said
Speaker 1: that he doesn't know, because when he was working up
Speaker 1: there was another manager. And he said he thought Joe
Speaker 1: Lucas told inaudible. Of course, Joe and I weren't very
Speaker 1: good friends, and we'd had some problems over the funeral business.
Speaker 1: And he said, Joe found my files. He said, I know,
Speaker 1: he went through everything you had. He and I had
Speaker 1: a partnership in a business and I put up all
Speaker 1: the money and it went sour, and so we had problems.
Speaker 1: Question you and Stan Friedman actually made an effort to
Speaker 1: try and find that, didn't you, Dennis. We went down there.
Speaker 1: The old file was right where I said it was.
Speaker 1: It was still there, but it was. Stan will tell you.
Speaker 1: We went down in this old basement and I knew exactly. See.
Speaker 1: I kept files on every case that I was involved
Speaker 1: in murders, anything that I went to court on that
Speaker 1: I was a witness on, I kept all that I
Speaker 1: called those my personal files. If I ever had to
Speaker 1: go back with the insurance companies or anything, I had
Speaker 1: it all right there. That's why I had those question.
Speaker 1: You found the filing cabinet, but there was nothing in it? Dennis. No,
Speaker 1: we went through it. There wasn't a thing in it.
Speaker 1: Stan and I both question they'd stripped it out or
Speaker 1: was there other stuff in there? Dennis, there wasn't anything
Speaker 1: in there. Question. After all of that excitement, then what
Speaker 1: did it just kind of evaporate? Dennis? It just kind
Speaker 1: of evaporated. Then. Of course, two or three days later,
Speaker 1: I was concerned about her because she was sick. I
Speaker 1: took her back to the nurses quarters and let her out.
Speaker 1: I called back the next day and they said she
Speaker 1: wasn't on duty. And I called the next day and
Speaker 1: they said she wasn't on duty. Then I went back
Speaker 1: out there. For some reason I don't recall. I went
Speaker 1: out there and I asked about the lieutenant and they
Speaker 1: said she'd been transferred out. They said she was transferred
Speaker 1: out yesterday. Well that was the day after I saw her.
Speaker 1: They got her out the next day. Question, who told
Speaker 1: you she'd been transferred out? Dennis? I don't know. Some nurses. Question,
Speaker 1: it wasn't anybody that you remember, Dennis, No question. Did
Speaker 1: they tell you where she'd been shipped to? Dennis, They
Speaker 1: didn't know. They said she had been transferred and that's
Speaker 1: all they knew. Question. But then you heard from her subsequently, Dennis.
Speaker 1: About three or four weeks later, I got a card
Speaker 1: addressed to Ballard Funeral Home. It was from her, and
Speaker 1: inside it just said just a short note. She said,
Speaker 1: we will correspond later to see what happened to each other,
Speaker 1: something similar to those words. She said, the only way
Speaker 1: you can contact me is through this APO number. And
Speaker 1: there was an APO number. It was a New York
Speaker 1: APO number. Question. So she'd gone to Europe or someplace, Dennis.
Speaker 1: Then right on the bottom, she says, I'm in London.
Speaker 1: That was it. I wrote a note, just a note
Speaker 1: that said if you feel like it and you get time,
Speaker 1: then I would love to know and we'll correspond. Mine
Speaker 1: came back. That was about three or four weeks later.
Speaker 1: Mine came back. Question, that was the one that was
Speaker 1: marked deceased Dennis. Yes, it said return to sender address
Speaker 1: ye deceased. Question, Then what did you do? Dennis inaudible question.
Speaker 1: You didn't try to follow up or see if there
Speaker 1: was any possible Dennis, No, I asked inaudible. At the time,
Speaker 1: we called her Slats. Wilson, a big, tall nurse six
Speaker 1: feet two inches six feet three inches, big tall, skinny girl.
Speaker 1: We called her Slash. Everybody called her Slats. She was
Speaker 1: the one that told me she'd heard that there was
Speaker 1: a plane crash, and she was the nurse that went
Speaker 1: down on a training mission. She said, that's strictly a rumor.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. That's what I question.
Speaker 1: No one's been able to turn that one up at all. Dennis.
Speaker 1: I guess maybe I should never even mention this. I
Speaker 1: know no one believes this damn story. Nobody believes this story. Question.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, Dennis. Anyway, it was
Speaker 1: a hell of a story I told inaudible, I said,
Speaker 1: I told the woman, I don't want to give you
Speaker 1: her name, because I told the lady i'd give a
Speaker 1: sacred oath and I didn't want to get involved. Well,
Speaker 1: it's been forty five years, almost forty years, and I
Speaker 1: haven't heard anything. He said, I will do it confidentially,
Speaker 1: and nobody else will have this name. Well, that's where
Speaker 1: he broke his promise. After that, I got all over
Speaker 1: him about it. I called him and I was madder
Speaker 1: than hell. He said, well, Bob Shirky was the one
Speaker 1: that told everybody that he was sitting in the back
Speaker 1: of us. Bob brought Stan Friedman up there. When he
Speaker 1: interviewed me. He said, Bob Shirky was the one that
Speaker 1: let out her name. To this day, Stan Friedman inaudible
Speaker 1: still says he did not put her name out. I've
Speaker 1: been on several shows, not several, but two or three interviews,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to mention her name. If somebody says,
Speaker 1: is this her name, I'm not going to say it
Speaker 1: is or it isn't. I told Stan I was madder
Speaker 1: than hell about it because I did give my word question.
Speaker 1: There's another side to that too, from the standpoint of
Speaker 1: those who were trying to get some answers. By not
Speaker 1: having her name around, it makes it easier to cross
Speaker 1: check the stories that you get from people you have.
Speaker 1: It's a question of honor, and that's very sound. I
Speaker 1: applaud you for that. There's not too many people around
Speaker 1: these days that are concerned about that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: and it's all so from an investigator's point of view,
Speaker 1: an advantage too, Dennis. I've never read this stuff. I've
Speaker 1: never watched the videos. I've never read any books. I
Speaker 1: haven't even read Stan's books. I haven't even read Kevin Randall's.
Speaker 1: Only what they say about me Friedman is a lot
Speaker 1: more accurate. But see question you mean about Dennis. About me,
Speaker 1: I've read that. That's the only thing I've read. I'm
Speaker 1: not a UFO guy. I've got another life besides UFOs.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Stan Friedman's story is pretty well right. But
Speaker 1: Randal and them was always said I got curious. I
Speaker 1: didn't get curious. I went out there on a call
Speaker 1: just like I told you. Question. The section of their
Speaker 1: book that refers to you is really kind of cryptic anyway, Dennis.
Speaker 1: They said the book was already published. Now they had
Speaker 1: a copy. Friedman sent them a copy of my tape.
Speaker 1: They had the inaudible. Hell, they had my tape. They
Speaker 1: just made that up. Somebody did question. I was puzzled
Speaker 1: by it when I read their book, that whole section
Speaker 1: where they referred to you, and it's all very mysterious,
Speaker 1: and your name is not referred to in the table
Speaker 1: of contents. But you're in the list of people that's
Speaker 1: been interviewed, but you're not one of the key people lists. Dennis.
Speaker 1: They never did interview me. Question. They never talked to
Speaker 1: you at all, Dennis, not personally. They didn't interview me
Speaker 1: until a long time later, a year or so later.
Speaker 1: They only had Stan's tape. Question. So when they were
Speaker 1: actually writing their book, Dennis, the book was already published. Question.
Speaker 1: When they were doing the writing, they were working from
Speaker 1: Stan's tape Dennis evidently. Question Who was actually the first
Speaker 1: UFO investigator to get in touch with you, Dennis, Stan
Speaker 1: Friedman when they had unsolved mysteries here and different ones.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of people. I'd get different ones.
Speaker 1: I had different people come and say, we want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about the UFOs, and I said, I
Speaker 1: don't have anything to say. I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about it, and I never did. I've talked to very
Speaker 1: few people since. Question, how did Stan come to find you? Dennis.
Speaker 1: One of the guys that I went to school with
Speaker 1: high school, and Captain Harry Blake, he's a general now inaudible.
Speaker 1: Question is he still on active duty? Dennis, No, he's retired.
Speaker 1: He was just a general in the military School National Guard.
Speaker 1: I don't know. He never was really a good friend
Speaker 1: of mine. We lived across the street from each other
Speaker 1: when we were kids. Question, so that's how Stan found you.
Speaker 1: He was the first guy to talk to you, Dennis.
Speaker 1: Bob Shirkey brought him up there to see me. Pause. Question,
Speaker 1: there's a reference in here to you having some years later,
Speaker 1: I think talked about a pediatrician that you knew, a
Speaker 1: guy that was stationed Dennis. I can't find his picture
Speaker 1: and I don't remember his name. I ran into him
Speaker 1: when I was fishing up in Colorado and we ran
Speaker 1: into each other. Question. This was a guy who was
Speaker 1: at the time stationed here. Dennis. He was here and
Speaker 1: they called him in. He said that was out of
Speaker 1: his field and he didn't want anything to do with it. Question.
Speaker 1: They actually called him in and asked him to take
Speaker 1: a look at what had been retrieved or Dennis he
Speaker 1: said they called him in. I don't know, he said,
Speaker 1: but I said that was out of my field and
Speaker 1: I didn't want anything to do with it. That's what
Speaker 1: he told me. Now. Question, did you get the sense
Speaker 1: that he knew more than he was telling Dennis? I
Speaker 1: would say so. Yeah, I'm sure they did. A lot
Speaker 1: of those guys out there did. Question. You don't remember
Speaker 1: his name, Dennis. I don't remember it, but I did
Speaker 1: run into him somewhere. I've got his name. Question. Have
Speaker 1: you talked with anyone else? Had you during that time
Speaker 1: before you got into all this? Dennis? No, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have even talked to him about it. He brought it
Speaker 1: up and wanted to know whatever happened on the UFO business. Question.
Speaker 1: It was at his initiative, Dennis. I didn't bring it up.
Speaker 1: I told him I didn't know any more about it
Speaker 1: than he did. He said, well, that was strictly out
Speaker 1: of my field, and I didn't want to get involved
Speaker 1: in it. That was about it. But he brought it up.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask him question. He was just curious about
Speaker 1: what happened. Dennis wanted to know whatever happened to it. Question.
Speaker 1: That's about all I've got. End of section thirteen. Recording
Speaker 1: by Aaron Bennett