WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:05.919 Section thirteen of the Roswell Report Case Closed by James 2 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:11.199 mc andrew. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings 3 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:15.160 are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, 4 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:21.399 please visit LibriVox dot org. Recording by Aaron Bennett The 5 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:26.600 Roswell Report Case Closed by James mc andrew. Appendix C, 6 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:33.520 Part two Interviews. Transcript of interview with w. Glen Dennis, 7 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:37.960 alleged first hand witness to events at the Roswell Army 8 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:44.759 Airfield Hospital footnote w Glen Dennis interview with Carl T. Flock, 9 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:50.920 November two, nineteen ninety two, and of footnote question, you 10 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.520 started getting calls from the base mortuary officer. Is that 11 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.799 right sometime in the afternoon on someday in July nineteen 12 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:05.400 forty seven, Dennis, Right afternoon, yeah. Question. Do you recall 13 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:10.799 was that before the story appeared in the Roswell Daily Record? Dennis? 14 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.599 I don't know. I'm sure it was. I can't honestly say, 15 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:16.840 but I don't think the paper came out until the 16 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.480 next day. I don't think I'm just assuming that question. 17 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:24.439 I understand when things like that happened to me way 18 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.159 after the fact. I try to remember, and I wasn't 19 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.599 sure if you had any recollection or not. It was 20 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.640 the base mortuary officer who called you, not any of 21 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:39.640 the MD's out there, Dennis, No question. He was just 22 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:44.920 the mortuary officer, was just the guy. Dennis. We used 23 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:47.280 to have a standing joke, what did you do that 24 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.200 was so bad that made you the mortuary officer? Question? 25 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:56.040 Exactly Dennis. He wasn't a doctor or anything, but he 26 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.640 was an officer and he was probably some old boy 27 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.760 that was trying to figure out something to do with. 28 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.799 We used to all have them come in. Even the 29 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.400 officer himself say, god, I didn't know I screwed up 30 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.319 that bad. Question. Was this a guy you'd worked with before, 31 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:16.439 somebody you knew real well? Dennis, No, those guys come 32 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.719 and go question. I realized that you don't remember what 33 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:25.159 his name was or anything like that. Dennis. No, I'm 34 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:28.080 like Bob Shirkey. I think if I would see it 35 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:31.120 or hurt it or something, I might Those guys they 36 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:34.599 were in and out the mortuary officer. Usually they would 37 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:38.159 appoint some sergeant or somebody. The only time the doctors 38 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.080 were involved is when you'd have an embalming inspection or 39 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.080 dress inspection, where the doctors came in and examined the 40 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.360 body to make sure everything was right. You had another 41 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:50.039 inspection to make sure they're dog tags, make sure all 42 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:54.000 the metals and everything. They always had two crews of inspectors. 43 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.319 The doctors were only involved in the cause of death 44 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.560 or the autopsies or identification process, dental charts and all that. 45 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.199 After they did their work, then a doctor would always 46 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.759 come in and make sure the body was embalmed because 47 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.960 they knew more about it than the other people. But 48 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:15.360 they were involved before. You know. Question, the reason they 49 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.759 contacted you was because Bert Ballard's funeral home up here 50 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:24.120 had a contract with the base, right Dennis, Yeah. Question. 51 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:29.120 You worked for Bert for a lot of years, didn't you. Dennis, Yeah, 52 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.759 A long time. Question. When did you first go to 53 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:36.120 work for him? Dennis, I went to work for him. 54 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.159 I was hanging around the funeral home when I was 55 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.919 like a freshman in high school. I'd want to make 56 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.039 some extra money. I'll give you fifty cents to watch 57 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.439 the hearse. I knew his daughter real well, we were 58 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.199 all in school together. That's where I really got involved 59 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.240 in the funeral home. I just kind of worked my 60 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:56.120 way into it question. He basically taught you the trade 61 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:00.039 and all that. Dennis, Oh, yeah, my folks weren't in 62 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:04.439 the funeral business question. The reason I was curious about 63 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.240 it was because when I went back, I'm one of 64 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.240 those guys that goes to Washington and then gets fed 65 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.319 up and leaves and swears I'm never going to go back, 66 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.319 and then I go back anyway. But the last time 67 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.079 I went back and did that, I shared a townhouse 68 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.439 with a guy for a while who was a mortician 69 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:24.360 from Michigan. But he had to go through all this 70 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:30.560 formal training and all this rigormarole. Dennis, No, that started 71 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.519 in inaudible. Maybe you don't want to hear this, but 72 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:36.759 I was in the ninth grade and this teacher was 73 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:39.519 going around and wanted us to write a composition on 74 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.360 what we wanted to be when we graduated from high school. 75 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.920 What were our future plans. I was kind of a 76 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.160 wise guy. I guess I must have been, But I 77 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:52.040 said undertaker, and I don't even know why. All the 78 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:56.480 girls squealed, so I got a little attention. Then she said, Okay, 79 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.759 if that's what you want to do, then you've got 80 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.279 a week. You bring me your composition. I want to 81 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.399 know why you want to be an undertaker. So I 82 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:07.680 went to the funeral home. They didn't have any books 83 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:09.959 in those days or anything, but that's where I went. 84 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.639 That's why I got involved in it started. Question how 85 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.439 long were you in that business before you? I know 86 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:22.639 you ran the Wortley Hotel up in Lincoln, New Mexico. Dennis, Oh, 87 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:26.879 that was after I retired. Question Oh, I see you 88 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.759 retired from the mortuary business. Dennis. Oh. Yeah, I was 89 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:36.160 in the funeral business thirty three years. Question all the 90 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:40.639 time with Ballard Dennis Oh, No, I had my own 91 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.680 funeral home over in Las Crusis, New Mexico and one 92 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:49.680 in SoCoRo, New Mexico. Question Oh, okay, speaking of that, 93 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:54.120 do you know Norman Todd or his family? Dennis, his 94 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:57.000 dad and I took the State board together. He was 95 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:02.560 at Clovis, New Mexico. Norman's son, isn't it? Question? Yeah, 96 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:05.720 he's a lawyer over in Las Crusis, New Mexico. His 97 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.360 Dennis wasn't his dad the funeral director in Clovis, New Mexico. Question? 98 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:15.399 I think so. The reason I know him is because 99 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.000 Mike Cook, who is Steve schiff's press secretary and he 100 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.680 have been friends ever since they were in kindergarten together. 101 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.680 It turns out that Iris Todd, I guess his stepmother 102 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:29.839 is the niece of Loretta Proctor. So talk about small world. 103 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.160 You got these calls from the mortuary officer who was 104 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.879 asking you all these questions. We don't have to go 105 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.920 back through all this. Then at some point you decided 106 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.360 to go out to the base. What took you to 107 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.600 the base, Dennis? At some point I didn't decide that's 108 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.480 not correct. Somebody wrote that, but I don't think it's right. 109 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:50.879 The way I ended up out at the base later 110 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:54.160 we had the ambulance service. The way I got it 111 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:56.680 the ambulance service. I got a call was an airman 112 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.680 that was hurt. I took him to the base the 113 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.759 best I remember. He wasn't on a stretcher or anything, 114 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.319 because he walked up the ramp and he sat up 115 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:08.160 in the front seat with me, so he weren't real 116 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:12.319 bad and weren't dying anyway. This guy walked in. I 117 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:16.040 walked him in where I usually parked the ambulance. There 118 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:19.160 was a field ambulance there. I had to go back 119 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:21.800 up to the front the irmin and I walked up 120 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.240 the ramps. That's why I went to the base. Question. 121 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.439 The hospital in those days was apparently a complex of buildings, 122 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:36.680 right Dennis, Yeah, kind of like Bob Shirky said, like 123 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.399 the Officers Club. They're all wooden barrack types. Question. So 124 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.480 the building that's out there now, the rehab center, is 125 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:49.240 a completely new building and had nothing to do with that, Shirky. No, 126 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.160 think of a long walkway like a tunnel attached to 127 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.879 the front of a series of question. I know just 128 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.920 what you're talking about, Dennis, with a little way between 129 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.639 each building the best I remember it isn't that, right, 130 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.839 Bob Shirky. Yeah, here was the building and you came 131 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:10.399 out the front door, and you went down this walkway, 132 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:14.279 which I just said, like a tunnel. You could see 133 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:16.800 from one end to the other. But all these separate 134 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:21.560 buildings which were different wings of the hospital. Question. This 135 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:25.600 was the infirmary where you took the airmen, Right Dennis. 136 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:28.399 There were some ramps there, I think the old ramps 137 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:32.840 still there. It was. Anyway, that's the kind of buildings 138 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:37.000 they were. You don't see it today, No question. I 139 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.679 knew that the building, most of it was new, but 140 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.480 I wasn't sure if they built onto it. Dennis. That 141 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:48.000 had been worked over two or three times. Question. When 142 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.039 you look at it, it looks like it's been one 143 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:53.159 of these things where they've added things to it. So 144 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.960 you pulled around behind the infirmary basically, Dennis, it was 145 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.559 a pretty tight squeeze in there. You couldn't get very 146 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:05.000 many cars in there. Question how many of those ambulances 147 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:10.360 were back there? Dennis? There were three old box ambulances. 148 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:13.639 I call them box ambulance. I guess you call them. 149 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:15.600 I wasn't in the military, so I don't know what 150 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:21.840 all the terms were. Question like these old field ambulances, Dennis, 151 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.240 they've got the old square field ambulances, you know. Question 152 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.519 the ermine walked up that ramp with you. Both of 153 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:33.519 you guys went into Dennis. The ermin and I both 154 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:38.360 went in Question, did he see that stuff? In Dennis? 155 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.879 He wasn't paying any attention because he had I had 156 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:44.799 a tourniquet and towel over his busted nose, and he 157 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.919 went right on in question, got himself into a little 158 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:53.320 trouble in town? Did he? Dennis rode an old motorcycle. 159 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:55.720 The reason I remember it is because he had an 160 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:59.679 old Indian motorcycle and I just bought one. I paid 161 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.399 forty dollars for one, and he rode one and I 162 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.399 didn't have any fenders, and I was thinking of maybe 163 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.919 of question. So you took him in there, and then 164 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.879 basically after you got him taken care of, you figure 165 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:15.279 you'd go look up your friend the nurse. Let's get 166 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:20.080 that straight, Dennis stan Friedman, I think somebody thought that 167 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:23.679 I was having a relationship with this nurse. I was not. 168 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.120 This girl wouldn't even think about going with me, and 169 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:30.279 she was going strictly when she got her time paid 170 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.639 back to the service. She was going into an order 171 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:35.480 of the nuns sisters, and she was going to be 172 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.159 in education. And later on she changed to the nursing deal. 173 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:42.480 The only reason she was in it because her folks 174 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.440 were in debt and she went in the service to 175 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:48.039 get her education. She got her education, and then she 176 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.639 was going to pay back the church what they owed her. 177 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.720 Her whole thing in life was from the day she 178 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.720 was born, her life was planned that she was going 179 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:00.200 to be in an order. Question, did you did you 180 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:04.080 ever tell you which order that was? Dennis? It was 181 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.720 in Saint Paul, Minnesota. That's all I know. Question. That's 182 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.320 where she was from, Dennis, That's where she was born 183 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:14.840 and raised. She never went out of the city until 184 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:18.399 she went to My understanding was she never went anywhere, 185 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.720 and she never lived anywhere. She was raised up from 186 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:25.519 the time, strictly raised by the church. That was the 187 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.720 only life she ever planned. She wouldn't date a man 188 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.759 if her life depended on it. She'd get around and 189 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.360 talk and everything, but there was no way. But everybody 190 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.960 said I was going to marry her, and that's bullshit. Question. 191 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:45.200 The implication was that she was cute, and Dennis, she 192 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.799 was cute. I could have been interested if I wouldn't 193 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.639 have played second fiddle to the Catholic Church, because that's 194 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:55.399 what she would have been. Question. How did you get 195 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:59.039 to know her? Just being out there on the base, Dennis. 196 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:02.159 The ambulance service, you go out there and you've got 197 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.039 your splints on a guy, you've got first aid whatever. 198 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.240 You can't just throw them off your stretcher. You maybe 199 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.200 help them. Sometimes you're out there two hours or three. 200 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.120 Then while you're waiting to get your equipment back, you 201 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.360 sit in the coat room with the doctors and with 202 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.759 the nurses quarters. That's where we always had our cokes 203 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.720 and stuff. Question. So you just shoot the breeze with 204 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.159 whoever's around, Dennis. You get to know these people. That's 205 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.240 the only way. See she'd only been there less than 206 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.000 three months. Of course, I'm a crazy son of a gun. 207 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.960 Nearly everybody remembered her. She was a good looking little thing, 208 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.399 a beautiful little girl. We thought she was kind of lonely. Question. 209 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.360 As you well know, there's been a major effort to 210 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.559 try to find her. Skip in tape. Dennis, she was 211 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.200 out here less than three months. Question. So you went 212 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:59.120 back there. Tell me what happened, Dennis. I started back there, 213 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.559 and that's when I got in trouble. I saw this 214 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.360 officer standing there, and I saw this debris in the 215 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:07.720 back of the ambulance. Two of them was full of debris, 216 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.799 like Bob Shirky. Saw a bunch of little stuff, and 217 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:14.759 there was a couple of pretty good sized Question. Two 218 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:19.279 of the three ambulances had stuff, Dennis. One of them's 219 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:22.480 door was closed, but the other two there was two 220 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:25.519 MPs standing right out kind of just leaning up against 221 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.600 the back of those I remember. Question, did they challenge 222 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:34.080 you when you tried to go in. Dennis, No, evidently, 223 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.200 because I drove up with that airman and they just 224 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:40.120 figured whatever another thing. When I was there, all the 225 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:43.039 people that was there, that nurse was the only person 226 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.759 I saw that was permanent station. Everybody else was all 227 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:51.039 new in that whole hospital operation. Even in the Koch room. 228 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.639 There wasn't anybody in there that I knew. I started 229 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.080 back and got to the door, and I saw this pause. 230 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:00.720 We've been friends for years, but I don't want to 231 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:04.799 talk with him around. Question. So the stuff you saw 232 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.320 you said it was not aluminum, Dennis, looked like hot 233 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.639 stainless steel when it got hot, when you put flame 234 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:16.039 on stainless. See, I do sculpture work and all that, 235 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.960 and I know what the stuff looks like. Question. Oh 236 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.799 you're a sculptor. I didn't know that, Dennis. Yeah, I've 237 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.799 been doing it for years. I had my own foundry 238 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:30.960 I did. I don't do it anymore. I have my 239 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.919 stuff done. But anyway, this stuff was a blue purpleish. 240 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.159 It looked like hot stainless steel is what it looked like. 241 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.799 Steel that got hot. It didn't look like aluminum. It 242 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.080 wasn't even melted like aluminum. I don't even think it 243 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:50.919 was melted, just like a bunch of fragments. Question, But 244 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:56.480 there were some bigger things in there besides the fragments, right, Dennis, Yeah, 245 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.679 there were was two pieces anyway. Do you want to 246 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:05.159 go back to the nurse question? Yes, please, Dennis. I 247 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:09.039 started back see and this captain was standing there, and naturally, 248 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.919 I just thought we had a plane crash. When we 249 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.200 had that, we used to fill up the ambulances and 250 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:18.559 everything else. It would inaudible for you to have a 251 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.679 hand here or an arm or foot or something. You 252 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.399 know what I'm talking about. Then you've got to get 253 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.840 in and take all that stuff and separate it and 254 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.799 put those bodies back together with identification. That's what you've 255 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.840 got to do. I thought we had a crash. I 256 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.240 saw this guy. I didn't know him. He was standing 257 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:43.080 there at the door. Question just inside Dennis, just kind 258 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.600 of standing like in between the door of this room 259 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.240 up there. I was going down the hall. I said, sir, 260 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.639 it looks like we had a plane crash. Do I 261 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:54.240 need to go in and get ready for it? Question? 262 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.919 This was an officer Dennis, Yeah, he was a captain. 263 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.360 Remember the bars on his inaudible. He said, who are you. 264 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:07.240 I told him I was from the funeral home, and 265 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.080 he said, wait right here, don't move. Then he came back. 266 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.879 That's when the two MP's came up. When the nurse 267 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.559 came out, we started down the hall, and that's when 268 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.159 somebody in the back of us said, bring that son 269 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.440 of a bitch back. That's when the redheaded captain asked 270 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.559 where the sergeant came in right there. Then they took 271 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.440 me on out. As I was going down the hall, 272 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.200 she came out of, like Bob said, out of this room, 273 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.559 and there was two guys in back of her and 274 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.879 they all had towels over their face. She saw me 275 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.879 and she said, Glenn, what are you doing here? Get 276 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:42.440 out of here. You're going to get in a lot 277 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.039 of trouble. How did you get in here? She said 278 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:50.200 that two or three times. She was sick. Question, this 279 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.919 is when you were talking to that first officer, Dennis. Yeah, 280 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.200 he just told the MPs to take me back to 281 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:01.320 the funeral home. Question. I just told them that, and 282 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.880 then she appeared at that point, Dennis. He told them 283 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.079 to take me to the funeral home. And we started 284 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:09.720 down the hall, back out the hall, and that's when 285 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.960 she came out of another room with these other two guys. 286 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.039 What happened? She told me the next day. They were 287 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.960 all sick because those little bodies were in those sacks, 288 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:21.640 and two of them were very mangled, and the smell 289 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.319 was horrible, and one was whole, and two of them 290 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:28.279 were very badly mangled. Question. Did you get a whiff 291 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:33.960 of that stuff yourself? Dennis, No, evidently not. If I 292 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.680 would have, I would have known what it was. I 293 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.720 worked on a hell of a lot of stuff. Question 294 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.920 and that tape you talked about working on floaters and 295 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:48.039 all that kind of stuff. Dennis. You know. Question. I 296 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.079 haven't had professional experience in it, but I've been involved 297 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:54.519 in it. Dennis, in New Mexico, you've got this hot, 298 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.319 one hundred degree stuff, and you've got bodies out there 299 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:02.680 two or three days and inaudible. Question this redheaded guy, 300 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.720 what was his rank do you remember? Dennis? I think 301 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.359 he was a captain. It seemed to me like he 302 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:13.440 had on some bars. Question when he first appeared and 303 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.200 started getting essentially pretty rough. Was the sergeant around at 304 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.519 that time or did he show up? Dennis, he was 305 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.839 kind of beside him. I think they were standing there. Yeah, 306 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.839 they were definitely standing there together. I don't know if 307 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.200 they walked in together, because I didn't see them until 308 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.920 they turned me around. Question, was there a lot of 309 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:38.960 activity at that time? Were there people, Dennis? People were everywhere? 310 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.039 And the odd part of it was there wasn't anybody. 311 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.960 Wasn't any of our regular people. These were odd people 312 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.599 that I'd never seen before. That's why I got in 313 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:53.480 so much trouble. I'd never seen these guys. Question, these 314 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.279 were not any of the guys that would ordinarily recognize 315 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.240 you as somebody who would Dennis. And they sure hell 316 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:04.119 didn't want me there. You know that question when he says, 317 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.079 get him out of there, the redhead. Did he make 318 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.240 any threats to you himself? Did he say, don't say 319 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:14.559 anything about this, forget it, Dennis? He said, just like that. 320 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.039 He says, Now, listen, mister, you don't go back into 321 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.960 town starting a bunch of damn rumors. This guy swore 322 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.720 as much as I do. Anyway, He said, don't start 323 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.519 a bunch of damn rumors because nothing happened out here. 324 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.839 There's no plane crashes, nothing's happened. You don't go in 325 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.000 and start. Then he told the MPs get the son 326 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.440 of a bitch out of here. That's when I said, 327 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.519 right then, I said, look, mister, I'm a civilian and 328 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.839 you can't do a damn thing to me. You go 329 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:47.279 to hell. That's when he said, listen, mister, somebody will 330 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.000 be picking your bones out of the sand. Then the 331 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.319 black sergeant said, sir, he would make good dog food 332 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.000 or something like that. I remember the dog food. The 333 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.480 next morning, at six o'clock, the sheriff was out at 334 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.000 my dad's house and told my dad Glenn may be 335 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.119 in a lot of trouble with the base, and tell 336 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.759 him to keep his mouth shut. I never told my 337 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.200 story to anybody, but my dad came up. I was 338 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.279 living in a room at the funeral home. He came 339 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:14.079 up and got me out of bed and wanted to 340 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.759 know what I'd done. He was a very patriotic old man, 341 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.559 and he said, if you've done anything against our government, 342 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:25.720 I'll take care of it. Question. When was this, Dennis? 343 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.039 The next morning? Question you were saying, what the heck, 344 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.720 what's going on? Dennis? Yeah? I said, well, hey, he said. 345 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.240 George Wilcox, the sheriff, and my dad were real good friends. 346 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.599 And he said, George, tells me you're in a lot 347 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:44.559 of trouble out there. He wasn't going to leave, and 348 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.599 I told my dad the story. He got all upset 349 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:50.000 because they threatened me and all this kind of stuff. 350 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.119 I didn't see the nurse then until the next day. 351 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.480 After I saw her, then I kept calling. When I 352 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.160 got back to the funeral home, I started calling because 353 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.880 she was in trouble and so was I. Question. It 354 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:05.079 was the next morning, after you'd been hustled out of 355 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:09.359 there that your dad came by to see you. Dennis. Yeah, 356 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.640 six o'clock in the morning. Question, he'd been called by 357 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.799 the sheriff. Dennis. The sheriff went to my mother and 358 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:20.839 dad's house and at six o'clock. My dad always got 359 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.039 up early, sat and had coffee. He was an old 360 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:28.160 carpenter and building contractor. He and George were old friends 361 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:31.640 because he used to go hunting and dad was making gunstocks, 362 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.240 so they were good friends. They used to play some 363 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.640 kind of domino games or forty two, whatever you call it. 364 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.559 They were good friends. Question, So the sheriff went by 365 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.200 to see your dad, Dennis. Dad said he was there 366 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.319 at six o'clock. Question. The sheriff came by early in 367 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.960 the morning, and then your dad immediately came from home 368 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.759 and came to see you. Dennis. After George Wilcox left, 369 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.160 my dad came up to the funeral home and wanted 370 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.079 to know what I did. Question. Did your dad say 371 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.200 why the sheriff. Had the sheriff been contacted by the 372 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:11.440 base or Dennis. No, he just said he was concerned 373 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.240 about what I'd done, how I'd got in trouble. Question. 374 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.960 Do you remember what he told you about what Wilcox 375 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.799 told him? Dennis? He just said, George said I was 376 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:27.359 in trouble at the base and what did I do? Question? Then, 377 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.039 after having this rude awakening you then did you call 378 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:35.640 the nurse Dennis? Well? Yeah, this was in mid morning, 379 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.400 I remember I finally I waited until kind of well, 380 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.480 it must have been nine o'clock or so, and I called. 381 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.960 I knew the workstation that she always worked at. She 382 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:50.400 was a general nurse. They didn't specialize, just orderlies, and 383 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.920 everybody was on general duty in those days. I was 384 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.759 informed that she wasn't there, she wasn't working, She wasn't 385 00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:01.440 working that day. Question. It was one of the other 386 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:05.440 nurses that you talked to, Dennis. Yeah, it was an 387 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:09.480 old girl by the name of Wilson. Captain Wilson, I 388 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.440 asked her, I said, what happened? She said, Glenn, I 389 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.480 don't know what happened, but she's not on duty. I'll 390 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:17.319 try to get the word to her that you want 391 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.920 to talk to her. She was wanting to talk to me, 392 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:24.240 but she was sick. She was in total shock. Question 393 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.319 did she tell you later that she was sick? Dennis, 394 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.880 I knew she was sick. She came out with that towel. 395 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.480 She said, she and the two doctors were sick. Then 396 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:38.160 at the Officers Club, she said, I want to know 397 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.400 what happened to you, and I'll tell you what happened 398 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.319 to me. The only way we ever got to the 399 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.680 Officers Club, the old regular group said, you don't go 400 00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:51.720 anywhere you keep your mouth shut. Inaudible said that the 401 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.079