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Speaker 1: Everyone.

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Speaker 2: Since we published our own version of Rapunzel Rapunzel and

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the Evil Queen, I thought it'd be interesting to think

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a little bit about the movie Tangled and how it

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differs from the original Rapunzel story, how it's the same,

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and what those differences mean. It's interesting because Tangled, in

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some ways appeared at a moment where Disney was slowly

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pushing towards more and more kind of ideological ideas, but

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had not yet fully embraced it. And so what you

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have with the story Tangled is a massive change in

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the original fairy tale. But at the same time, because

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it is well written, the jokes are funny, there's a

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lot of good stuff in there. The movie still is successful,

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even though now looking back at it from the point

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of view of the Disney collapse, you could call it

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or you know, Disney becoming incapable of telling these fairy

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tale stories. You can already see the glimmers of all

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of what would happen in the future and lead to

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them now basically have given.

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Speaker 1: Up on fairy tales. This is Jonathan Pegel. Welcome to

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the Symbolic World.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, we are finally announcing our Paradiso class. We

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have done two already. We have the Inferno, we have

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the Purgatory, and now we are moving to Paradise.

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Speaker 3: That is right, Dante himself says Inferno that we prefer

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hell to Paradise, and similarly, most of us prefer to

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read Inferno, but when we come to reading Parodiso, we're

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very confused. So we're going to be actually taking you

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through that poem line by line like we did with

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Inferno Purgatorio, and actually looking at how Dante very carefully

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reconciles some of the contradictory traditions about the heavens in

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the Christian apocalyptic tradition and does that through the persons

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of the saints.

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Speaker 2: And so this is truly important for us right now,

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with the re enchantment of the world happening, we have

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to be able to look at those that that did

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it in the most powerful way that we're able to

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reconcile the ancient pagan traditions with Christianity, with his modern understanding,

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the most modern understanding of the cosmos that he had.

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And so this is the work that we need to do.

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So we need to learn from Dante. So the course

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starts November fifth to December third, right, is that what

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I've got five weeks two to five on Wednesdays.

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Speaker 3: So the cost is going to be one hundred and

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ninety dollars US. But we do have an early bird

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sale through the month of October, which bumps it down

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to one hundred and sixty one. You can use to

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Code Earth early Paradiso and that is good through the

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end of October.

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Speaker 2: And the Inferno and the Purgatorial class are also on

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sale at the same time, so you have fifty percent

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off during the month of October Code Dante fifty and

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you know that means you have no excuse.

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Speaker 1: So if you.

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Speaker 2: Haven't taken the first classes, now is the chance to

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scoop all that up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you don't want to watch live or

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it doesn't work for your schedule, you'll be able to

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follow along at your own pace.

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Speaker 1: Just like with all of our courses.

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Speaker 3: You'll have access to lecture recording, slides, additional readings, and

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you can still ask questions and interact with your fellow

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classmates in our circle forums.

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Speaker 1: And so join us.

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Speaker 2: After all of this suffering through Inferno and Purgatorio, the

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Symbolic world finally goes to heaven.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, join us.

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Speaker 2: And so the story Tangled is actually quite a loose

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retelling of the story of Rapunzel. You know, the basic

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esthetic of it is there, but they've changed several things.

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The first thing that they've changed is, of course, in

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the original tale, Rapunzel's plight happens because her parents have

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made a deal with an evil witch in some ways

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that they have traded cabbages for the child, because the

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woman who's pregnant, she's hungry for cabbages. So the husband

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accepts this very weird compromise where he takes the cabbage

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and ultimately accepts, even though not totally believing it, I guess,

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accepts that the witch is going to take their the child.

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And it's funny because you could see how you would

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want to change that part of the story, because it

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seems improbable that parents would trade their child for cabbage,

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that someone would trade their own, their only child for cabbage.

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Speaker 1: But if you back away.

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Speaker 2: A little bit and you look at the original story

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from a little bit of a distance, you realize that,

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in fact, this is something that is happening all the time. Now,

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you know, with of course, the the the huge amount

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of abortion, and you can see that many people, in fact,

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are willing to give up their child, you know, for

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the pleasures of the belly, you could call it right

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for you know, and in terms also of contraception, all

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of these types of behaviors that the modern world has taken.

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It's in fact quite normal for people to give up

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their child, or give up a child for the pleasures

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of immediate pleasures, you could say. And even people who

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sometimes decide not to have children, couples who get married

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and decide not to have children, they usually frame it

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as children are you know, a weight or something that

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would get in the way of their aspiration of their

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own personal aspirations. Of course, usually is not framed as

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let's say, superficially as something you want to eat or

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the desire.

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Speaker 1: Of the belly.

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Speaker 2: But in the story, this is really the best way

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to represent it. It's the idea of sacrifice, true meaning

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for a more immediate pleasure. Now in the Tangled story

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they change that where in fact the witch.

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Speaker 1: Gothel, mother gothel.

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Speaker 2: She is using this magical flower in order to stay

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young and to remain beautiful. And when they use the

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flower to heal the queen who is sick, so that

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she can have her child. Mother, Gothel is angry and

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goes and steals the child away from the mother. Now,

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although it's different from the original story, it's a quite

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beautiful and powerful image to help us see what it

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is that's going on that in some ways Gothel is

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using beauty in a superficial way. She is not she

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doesn't seem to have children, she doesn't seem to be married,

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she seems to be obsessed with keeping herself young, and

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so she wants to capture this power of beauty for

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that purpose. But in the case of the Queen, this

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beauty you could say, or the power of this power

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of youth and the power of beauty, all of this

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idea is actually put in service of her being able

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to have a child right and to have a family.

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And so you can see how, although it's different, it's

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quite subtle and quite smartly similar to the version of

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Rapunzel from the original fairy Tales that it is again

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a choice between something like artificial, superficial beauty and youth

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compared to beauty and youth at the service of something higher,

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which is of course a child and to have a family.

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So it's pretty smart and what they do, of course,

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which is not in the original tale, is that they

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make the Rapunzel flower. Because it's not clear whether Rapunzel

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is a cabbage or a flower. In the ancient story,

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there's like versions where it seems like it's either either one.

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Speaker 1: They make the flower.

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Speaker 2: The source of this youth, can say, the source of

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this uh, this capacity to stay young and to stay beautiful.

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And so then what happens, of course in the Tangle

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story is that the reason why Gotha wants to keep

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Rapunzel in the tower is of course because she is

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a tool, right, She's a tool. She uses this child

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as a way to get her own desires, right, as

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a way to make sure that she stays young. And

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now Rapunzel, with her long golden hair, she now becomes

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the source of the magic which will keep the witch young.

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So she keeps her in the tower, and she has

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her singing a song, and this song is what will

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will keep her young. Now. Again, like I said, it's

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different from the original story, but it is quite powerful,

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you know, because you could say that it's again in

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some ways, the idea of having a child, or protecting

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a child, or having a child for the wrong reasons

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or using them for your own glorification or your own,

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your own purposes, but then also youth itself as a

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tool in order to remain powerful and to have influence

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on others, because that is of course Gothel. You see

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the way that she acts with Rapunzel, that she is manipulating,

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she is controlling her, and so she also becomes this

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image of the devouring mother in the union sense, which

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is there in the original tale. For sure, that the

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witch is really this devouring mother, like she wants to

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overprotect Rapunzel, and the original story it's not clear her

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motivations aren't spelled out.

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Speaker 1: In our version of the.

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Speaker 2: Book, we tried to make those coherent, you know, we

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try to dramatically explain why the queen is trying to

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protect Rapunzel in the tower. But I think Disney also

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saw that there was this narrative problem in the story

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or in terms of our modern narrative sensibilities that you

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had to justify, like why would this witch want to

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keep Rapunzel in the tower, And so they kind of

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worked all of this out in order to find a solution.

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The biggest difference between the two stories is, of course,

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in the love story. In the story of Rapunzel the

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original fairy tales, in some ways you have this trope

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of the overprotective mother who is refusing for the girl

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to develop herself fully and be able to go out

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into the world obviously and find a husband, found a family.

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So the witch is trying to keep Rapunzel for herself

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and so and also not preparing her for her growing up,

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for her becoming a woman. And so what it sets

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up is this opposition where she guards her too much,

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and because she guards her, the prince comes to encounter her,

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and then they fall in love, and she gets pregnant

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in the tower, which is what you see in the

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original stories. So there's a kind of you know, it's

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a kind of two extremes on the one and because

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she protected her too much and didn't you know, prepare

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her for becoming a mother, for becoming a wife, then

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you know, she plays around the fire and then she

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gets pregnant in the tower without being married and without

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being with the prince. And this of course, now in

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the Tangle version, like none of this is there. Now

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the story of Rapunzel is reduced, I think in this

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case now is reduced to this idea of self development.

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And so Rapunzel is trapped in this tower. She wants

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to go out, she wants to explore, she wants to

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discover the world, you know, And that is what the

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story ends up being about, is some way she has

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to break free from the stricture of her devouring mother

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in order to fully realize herself. And interestingly enough, in

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the in the Tangled movie, that love story becomes very

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secondary in the story. It's almost almost like tagged on

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at the end, you're not even sure, you know, at

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the end they kind.

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Speaker 1: Of get married.

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Speaker 2: But it even in the way that it's described as

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if this is really not that important in the thrust

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of the story, that Rapunzel and I ever get married, Well,

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I'm pleased to tell you that after years and years.

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Speaker 1: Of asking and asking and asking, I finally said yes.

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Speaker 2: What's mostly important in the thrust of the story is is,

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in some ways Rapunzel's own self development. And when you

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look back at it now, when you see from the

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point of view of you know, twenty twenty five the Tangle,

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you already see all the girl boss motifs that are

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there Entangled, that were burgeoning. And so I remember watching

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it before and kind of and liking it, you know,

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and thinking it was funny, and thinking it was it

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was well done. But now you look back and you

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realize that the Flint character is absolutely useless. The Flint

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character all through the story is only a kind of

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obstacle to the development of Rapunzel. He is lying, you know,

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he's doing all these things. He's trying to get her

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give him the crown right up till the end. You know,

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when they get stuck in the tavern, she's the one

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who helps them escape, etc.

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Speaker 1: Etc.

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Speaker 2: She's always kind of saving him, finding the solutions. And

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of course at the very end of the story you

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realize that all of this is a setup so that

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she saved the prince. Now, in the story of Rapunzel,

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the original story, it is Rapunzel that saves the prince.

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It's actually a very powerful example to know that these

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stories don't always go one way, that in fact, the

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stories have all kinds of different possibilities in them. In

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the story of the early story of Rapunzel, Rapunzel cries

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on the blind prince and then makes him see again

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and reintegrates him into his family that he in some

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ways that has been alienated from you know, because of

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him falling in the thorns. But in the Tangled story,

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the hair is an image of this external beauty, right,

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It's the idea of something that is on the outside that.

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Speaker 1: Is made making you beautiful.

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Speaker 2: That is of course there in the original Rapunzel story

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as well, and that's why it's the tool by which

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the Witch is able to remain externally beautiful. Why, being

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you know, internally ugly and becoming more and more horrible

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on the inside, She's still able to maintain this external beauty.

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So you can imagine the hair as a kind of

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outer shell that could be represented as you know, makeup

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or surgical transformations, you know, facelift or whatever knows job,

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all of these external things that we do to our

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body to stay young or botox, and in some ways,

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you know, that is what it manifests at the It

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has several symbols in this story, but that is definitely

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the main aspect of what's going on, and it's very

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precious for that reason.

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Speaker 1: It's her youth, it's her.

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Speaker 2: It's an image of this kind of this this youthfulness,

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but youthfulness as this this outside representation of beauty, and

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Flynn she's willing to kind of sacrifice everything, ultimately the

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thing that she wanted, which is to be free. She

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is willing to sacrifice that in order to save Flynn

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at the very end of the movie, when Flynn is

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dying and then Flynn realizes that he also has to

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sacrifice himself. It's a beautiful image at the end, and

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it's a great idea to have Flynn cut her hair

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instead of the witch in the context of the story

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that is told. And then what happens is that as

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he cuts off her hair in ways, as he is

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willing to sacrifice her external beauty and the externals of

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her beauty, then she discovers that the true beauty right

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is inside and that she has chess changed, she has matured,

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and because she was willing to sacrifice herself for Flynn,

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then she in some ways the magic has moved inside

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her heart and now she can heal Flynn with her

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tears that well up from inside. And so it's actually

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a very powerful, beautiful image. But it is quite different

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from the original Rapunzel, and the original Rapunzel, what you

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have is instead of this being mostly a journey of

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self discovery, although like I said at the end, there

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is this beautiful moment of kind of self sacrifice on

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both sides of the fence with Flynn and Rapunzel. In

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the original Rapunzel, it's mostly about their union. That is

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what's the most important thing about it. So you can

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understand that in the original Rapunzel, Rapunzel's hair also acts

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as this external beauty. So think about the prince coming

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and seeing this beautiful hair and being attracted by this

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beautiful hair, and then in some ways, what is his

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motivation for coming to see Rapunzel in the tower? And

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I think what's intimated in the story is that he's

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not going there for the right reasons. He's going there

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because of her external beauty and also because obviously of

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the romance that he develops with her in the tower.

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But in the story of Rapunzel, he never takes her

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out of the tower, right, he never saves her. Why well,

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because he's not completely clear and what his intentions are

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and what is the reason why he is trying to

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get Rapunzel. And the power of the story is that

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when the witch and somebody uses the hair to trick

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the prince, you can think that he you know, he

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has been tricked that is, he has been too attentive

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to her external beauty and to the things that it

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procures him in, including pleasure and sexual pleasure, that he

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has not been paying attention to her voice, you could say,

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or to her inner self, and to the true Rapunzel

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that is behind the hair. So that now when he

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goes up the tower and he encounters the evil witch, you.

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Speaker 1: Know he has been tricked.

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Speaker 2: But there's something deeper going on in the original Rapunzel story,

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which is that any man, right, if you enter into relationship,

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any man that enters into a relationship with a woman

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for only those reasons, only the reasons of external beauty,

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only the reasons you know of the pleasure that comes

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from those from that external beauty, will one day wake

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up and realize that that woman is now old, you know,

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And if you haven't been able to transfer that interest

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to the real person, right to the person that is

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on the inside, then you will be alienated, right and

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you will become blind, just like in the story of Rapunzel.

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So in the story of RAPUNZELI falls and he's blinded

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by the pricks, blinded by the thorns, and he wanders

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for several years until he's able to hear Rapunzel's voice again.

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And that is something that sadly happens to many men

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who when their wife starts to have children. Obviously, having

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children will change a woman's body, will will change her,

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let's say, her priorities, will change all kinds of things

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about her. And if that relationship isn't strong, then it

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can be a moment where men are alienated, and sadly,

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some men might leave like this. These are the stories

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of men who abandon their families. And then some men

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might wander for a while until they're able to see

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the goodness that is behind it all and the true

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purpose of all of this, which is the creation of

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a family. So, although the story of Tangled is very

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powerful and beautiful in the way that it brings together

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these two self sacrifices, in the end the story of

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self realization, I think is weaker and not as strong

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as the story of true union, right, the story of

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moving towards something that completely transcends you and joins you

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together in the creation of a family, And sadly, in

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the Tangle movie at the end that is treated almost

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like a detail. As Rapunzel returns to the castle and

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is joined with her family, and so I hope this

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was a little bit of an interesting meditation for you

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to consider the difference between Tangled and Rapunzel. I'm curious

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to know what all of you think. Did you notice

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the things that I mentioned in the Tangle movie? Do

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you think that it was already a beginning of these

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these kind of tropes? And I say that really now

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in retrospect, because when I watched the Rapunzel movie, the

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Tangle movie, uh, you know, I think I was probably

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in my early twenties when it came out. I thought

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it was well done. I thought it was great. I

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was curious about why they had changed the elements that

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they changed. I think I now I understand it more.

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But obviously, meditating on all that is what guided us.

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You know, obviously the original story and why it was

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changed and how that affects the story is some of

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the things that I meditated on when I wrote our

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own version of Rapunzel and Evil Witch, which you can

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get now on Amazon, folks.

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Speaker 1: We are finally on Amazon.

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Speaker 2: If you're in the United States, you can get it

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prime shipping and all of that. So if you haven't

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gotten a Punzel yet, and our other fairy tales.

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Speaker 1: Please go and do that.

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Speaker 2: So thanks everybody for your attention and talk to you

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very soon, bye bye. If you enjoy these videos and podcasts,

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please go to the Symbolic world dot com website and

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