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Speaker 1: Good cool. Yeah, well excellent.

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Speaker 2: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country. Mister gorbu Shaw,

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tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast number seven

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hundred and thirty eight. Today it's Stephen Hayward sitting in

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James Lilac's host chair and joined by some stranger named

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Rob Long. Yeah, we're gonna kick around the news and

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some reader questions.

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Speaker 3: So let's say, waite, was James gonna was James gonna

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do this and then he found it? I was gonna

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do what he's done, doumb You know no, he's not

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gonna show right, Okay, but I think you just traveled

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on the ending, so I think it.

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Speaker 1: No, sorry, that's all right.

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Speaker 2: I think I should probably do that again.

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Speaker 1: Perry, will you make it sloppy? Sloppy works?

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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to Ricochet Podcast seven thirty eight, And sure

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enough it's me and Rob Long today taking your questions.

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Fine and finally and the camelon, well that's.

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Speaker 1: On way putting it.

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Speaker 2: Look, we've got some great reader questions and as you

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are our resident theologian in training, we do want to

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ask you about the papal succession that's currently getting underway,

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even though Rob, you should know that high trich Episcopalians

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like yourself I always refer to as non Union Catholics.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: Take that for what it's worth.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into all that, i'd like to

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get your thoughts on And I know you've been at

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a monastery for the last several days on retreat, so

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you may have missed all this. But there's quite a

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lively debate going on on the sort of right intelligentsia

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in the last week, started by a news story in

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the Wall Street Journal called Meet Maga's Favorite Communists, and

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it's mostly about how people like Chris Rufo have decided

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we need to emulate Gromsky's famous long March for the

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institutions and contest the left for power. And there's been

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a lot of people, as you may know, who are saying,

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you know, some of what Trump's doing with the universities,

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I'm not too sure this is a good idea. It

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may come back to bite us. Isn't this really an

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abuse of federal power of the kind that we normally

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object to on principle? And all that is yes on

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the internet, And I think that you know, Genteel friends

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of ours, like Jonah Goldberg, I think represents the point

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of view that the right has always been at its

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strongest when it emphasized ideas. You know the famous phrase

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Richard Weaver, ideas have consequences. And you know my counter

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to this is I've always agreed with that. I think

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it was true in conservative history, going back to you know,

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the rise of Reagan and so forth. But you know

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the other thing that has consequences day to day are

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votes on hiring in tenure committees in universities, and we

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ain't got any of those. And so my own view

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is I've been kind of tilting toward the RUFO direction, saying,

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you know, if the if the left says it's all

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about power, then maybe we're gonna have to play their game.

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Speaker 1: It's got its obvious hazards.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know if you follow any of this

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at all, or even if you haven't, you can give

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me yours first thoughts on that brief summary I just

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provided you.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I I diviy in half. I mean

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not actually in half. I mean I divide it in

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terms of the national interest and.

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Speaker 1: National lack of interest.

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Speaker 3: In the national interest, I think it's hard to argue

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that government funding in science, research, technology has not had

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a force multiplier in the national product and the economy.

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I mean, it's a hard it hurts to argue that

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for me because I'm a Milton Friedman guy, and I

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think no. But it's just hard to argue that that

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did not happen. Just looking at the past four years,

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fifty years, even of a massive government.

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Speaker 1: Investment in research and technology.

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Speaker 3: And science, hard science, theoretical science, rocket science, all sciences,

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there is zero national interest in the country support being

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taxpayer supporting or even the country supporting.

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Speaker 1: English majors right, which I want, absolutely zero.

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Speaker 3: And there is there's cascades of money out there that

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is private that could basically fund that. And so when

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you find people I think, I mean, you know, everybody

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seeks the science has been corrupt too. I'm just gonna

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set that argument aside for a minute.

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Speaker 1: When you look at.

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Speaker 3: How much money is just sluiced into higher education for

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stuff that is absolutely at least the best you can say,

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it's irrelevant to the national interests. You know, that's got

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to stop, and that should stop. But I would say

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two conservatives that the problem isn't to spend federal money

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the way you want to spend it. The problem is

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to not spend federal money at all. And right wingers.

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Here's the problem with the right wingers. And I know

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I'm all right, I know I've been you know, I've

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been raising money from them for a long time.

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Speaker 1: They are not building a useful alternative.

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Speaker 3: Like if you go to a conservative billionaire philanthropist and

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you say I want to publish, say seven books, I

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want to do a project, or I want to do

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a podcast or whatever, they will ask you if you, hey,

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do you think that you could you you would get

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on Sean Hannity with this, You think you could do this? Yes,

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So conservatives in general tend to be obsessed with the

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stardom within the conservative bubble, which is I understand that

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it's a great business, but it does not move the needle,

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whereas you find liberals are much much more uh creative

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and strategic about the audiences that they're going for. And

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I just think we just need to do that on

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the right. And instead of arguing about where government money

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should be spent, I mean, I think it should be

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spent on stem and I don't think it's spent an

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it's not stem. We should be arguing about, okay, well,

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if you're all these rich guys.

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Speaker 1: Build something.

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Speaker 3: The idea that that Harvard and Yale and Princeton and

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all the sort of these speak brands are inviolate and

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eternal and some have some kind of aristocratic privilege is

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anathema to a conservative viewpoint. We should be saying, no, no, no, no.

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We criticize, as Michelangelo said, criticized by creating where is

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the new Harvard?

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Speaker 1: Where is the new Yale? These are these are institutions.

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Speaker 3: That are out of gas and out of UH, out

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of energy, and out of UH innovation. But they're not

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out of this money. But there's plenty of money. There's

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so much money build a new Harvard, build build a

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new high school?

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Speaker 2: Right, well, there is, uh. I mean there are a

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couple of examples. I mean, one of course, where sort

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of our buildillionaires so to speak, have funded quite adequately

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this new startup University of Austin down in Texas, and

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I think it's it's off to a great start, and

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I think it's going to be a great success. And

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then maybe someone will say we should do five more

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of those, specifically on the Harvard question, you know, I

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think people were shocked to learn that Harvard is, you know,

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getting something like eight billion dollars from the federal government

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when they have a fifty three billion dollar endowment and

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a lot of them Dowman is tied up with restrictions

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because donors like that. But you know, to the extent

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that they're losing two or three billion immediately for scientific research. Supposedly,

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you know, Bill Gates could write a check for that,

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although he dropped out of Harvard, So I mean, I

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think it's worth it. But that's another story, right, Yeah,

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I'll mentioned and then there's also the Schools of Pacific

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Education popping up in Red States at the public universities,

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and that's a long story. I'm close to several of

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those efforts and know a lot about them, and they're

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explicitly wanting to hire more conservative faculty. They're doing cluster

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hires for conservatives for a change, and we'll see there's

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faculty resistance going on. That's a long story. But the

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last thing I'll tell you about rob to cheer you up,

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which you may not have heard the news, is over

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one hundred faculty at Yale put out a letter a

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few weeks ago didn't get any press calling on the administration, sorry,

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calling for an independent audit of administrative bloat at Yale.

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And apparently administrators out number faculty is something like five

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to one at Yale. I mean, I've heard it's bad,

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but that's way off the chart. And my favorite line

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in a letter is students don't come to Yale for

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the administration anyway. It's a very plus truth. It's fabulous

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and you know, we'll see if this happens. But I've

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been waiting, wondering for a long time when our faculty

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going to revolt against all these administrators and demts. All

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of them are paid with more than faculty usually who

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do nothing useful at all. And anyway, so let's keep

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track of that because I think that is a fun

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story to watch.

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Speaker 1: And I totally agree.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the administrative bloat is an education starts in

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you know, pre K, and it goes all the way

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up to graduate school and there's been no stop to it.

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But this is this is what you This is why

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right where are things? Where are we getting good stuff?

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What products are in the marketplace that are good things

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and innovative and cheap and getting cheaper and they are

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all all to an industry. They are industries that are

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not subsidized in any way. FED higher education is subsidized

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at the price of a higher A year at a

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college is absolutely mapped on top of the amount of

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money you can borrow. If that money went down one

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hundred dollars, the cost would go down one hundred dollars.

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If it goes up one hundred dollars, the cost goes

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up one hundred dollars. It is the same with healthcare.

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It is everything that is subsidized costs more because you

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and and we essentially are covering the hard stuff that

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places like Harbon Neil used to do. I mean Harvard

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really really to be fair as a as an entity.

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Speaker 1: Harv is a.

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Speaker 3: Healthcare company with a university attached to it. I mean

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just financially, it's what it is. It's the same thing

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with you. It's a hospital network with a university attached,

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so we cover It's a classic government gambit, right, We're

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going to cover all of the hard things and important

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things that you do, and the rest of the money

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you get to hire you know, Marx's French deconstructive faculty.

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And that is kind of how the government works with everybody, right,

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we're gonna you know, if you're a socialist, like I

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want the government to pay for everything important in my life,

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and the money I have is going to be like

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my little allowance and I can go and you know,

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buy a latte if I want, And it really should

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be the other way around, but we've allowed it to

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sort of. You know, it's much easier to say I

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want the government to do my healthcare because healthcare is

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hard and gets my head hurt, so somebody else do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So all right, let's shift gears, because I think

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the biggest story in the world right now is not

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what's going on between Trump and all his enemies and whatnot.

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It's that we are now facing the succession of the pope,

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and even for non Union Catholics like you and me,

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that's an important story. I mean, it has been for decades, right,

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an important institution. And we have several reader questions from Ricochet.

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The first one is from Aaron Hunt Ara Haunt. I'm

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not sure how he says his name on his handle.

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Do you have any are you handicapping who might be

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the next pope or are you leaving that to the

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you know, are true truly Roman friends.

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Speaker 3: I am not handicapping it. I'm just I can you

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could outline the considerations, right, I mean you the fastest

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growing population, even Christian population in general, but definitely Catholic

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poplation is in Africa what they call the term the

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Global South, also South America, and while those people tend

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to be on the left economically, they tend to have

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very you know, the liberation theology has really taken roots

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in a lot of those places. So we call them conservative.

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That's not quite. They doesn't really sort of overlap with

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our sense of politics, but they tend to be very

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socially conservative. So if you're a cardinal in you know,

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in the in the now real life reality TV movie

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of Conclave, which is happening, this is so great, That's

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what that's what you're thinking about, Like, like do I

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you know, a lot of these people were elevated by

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by Francis, so it's presumably they are sort of more

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aligned with his you know, modified progressive politics, which are

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you know, they're not quite He's not quite the wacky

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red that we think he is. But you can only

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go so far, and you can't lose Africa. You lose

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Africa you lose the church and and and the Catholic

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sort of thinkers and strategists that I know or I've

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been reading.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you read an article by them, you.

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Speaker 3: Skip the first three paragraphs because the first three paragraphs

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are just throw clearing about you know this, and the

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fourth and fifth of the In the media, it's it's

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a pure marketing play, like if we do this, we

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lose Africa. If we do this, we can get Asia.

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It's Asia growing faster and whatever are the growth? Where

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are the opportunities of growth? And it reminds me of

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this sort of ecumenical councils that happened in the early

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twentieth century, and also the sort of the Catholic councils

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that happened throughout the fifteen sixteen seventeenth century where they

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didn't have the the Mba language that we have now.

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But that's what we're really talking about. It's like, where

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are the people for us? We're losing this group. How

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do we know we're losing Catholics in Europe during the

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Reformation Where we're going to find some more. We're going

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to find some more in the New World. And I

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think that's that's part of.

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Speaker 2: What's going on. So Joseph Stanko asks, and I'm going

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to mend this question, what would Rob do? I hear

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elected pope, and I want to add what papal name

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would you choose?

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Speaker 1: And what state?

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Speaker 2: What steps would you take us Pope to revive the

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old Hollywood studio system?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I all I can say is that

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I just steal from a famous Bill Buckley joke.

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Speaker 1: But would Rob you, if you like to, Pope, demand

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to recount?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: And I wouldn't be the only one. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that Roman Catholic Church is so bananas

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and bizarre and wonderful to me. I don't I don't

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know what I would do. I think I think you

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have to uh yeah, and I think it'll be healthy

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for them to come. If you're going to maintain I

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think we'll say, you know, I totally understand why they

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would do the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church all

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that stuff. If you're going to maintain those, you refresh

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the arguments for them. Instead of doubling down on tradition,

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you double down on a on a real doctrinal or

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even you know, theological argument and make them.

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Speaker 2: I think people make them well, you know, you do

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hear today there's a lot of press about people going

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back to traditional churches, both Protestant and Catholic. I think

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especially young men. I mean, I've seen some data recently

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that young men are now outnumbering young women going to church.

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I think it's an aspect of what sometimes called bro

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culture and all these sort of young not necessarily all right,

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but people who are into weightlifting and yeah, right, it's

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just the leobros all that.

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Speaker 1: I love that theobros.

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Speaker 2: That's great, and there's a lot of it happening and

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I never saw this coming, but so I don't know.

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I mean, you know, it could be an interesting thing

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where it's the old folks who have turned out to

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be the post Vatican to you know, left leaning culturally

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and theologically, and it's the young folks who are going

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to lead it back to tradition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or at least the young folks are going to

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lead back to sort of a more solid ground. Clearly,

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there's a hunger I think I think the story of

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I mean I'm just speaking purely on a on a

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Western and European level, right, So American European level, the

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story of young men returning to the church. Twenty three

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percent of young men I just read this in the

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in the UK say they're churchgoers. That's that's a like

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of eighteen to twenty four or something. That's a giant,

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giant number. And now I mean and they and they

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outnumber and the Catholics outnumbered the Anglicans in the UK,

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which is kind of astonishing. So there's something, there is

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a hunger for something. A lot of it, I think

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is that this lost generation of young men. The question

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about you know, the sort of absent fatherhood I think,

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or a different kind of fatherhood. I think we decided

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the young men were evil and bad and needed to

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be whipped into shape. And we guess what, we whipped

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them into submission. And they every impulse that a young

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man has, pretty much that it's biological impulse, has been outlawed. Yeah,

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and we don't know what to do with him. And

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the great story, I think, and which should make us

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all happy, is that there are things to do and

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they and know some of those young men are finding

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it themselves, and that is kind of yeah, kind of yeah,

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but dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know the contrast between the two pops back

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Benedict the sixteenth, very conservative, and then Francis who is

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much more liberal. I think in many ways, not always.

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It's very confusing for an outsider, and so who knows

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this conclave could go on a long time. And really

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it's too bad that the Vatican doesn't have Bamboo HR

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available to them to help them with this process.

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Speaker 1: Nice, very well done.

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Speaker 2: Right, So maybe maybe not the church, but maybe you

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00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,640
started your business because it was your passion, but you

337
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fell into HR as your business got going. Nobody is

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an expert in all areas, including especially HR. That's why

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for sponsoring this the Ricochet Podcast. And boy, I wish

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it was so easy for a rep the Vatican or

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anybody else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is not easy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, although I mean it's like as a you know,

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in the show show business way of looking at things

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is always said of show business related uh, you know,

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when there's a I think somebody told me once that

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they were in a meeting someone, you know, they were

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talking about a couple of movies and some studio was

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releasing a movie and so, oh my god, there's a

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school shooting.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, uh what about this?

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Speaker 3: And the argument that the tragedy was this the movie

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about to re released has that shooting scene. Well, you know, yeah,

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but there's other tragedies happening in a school shooting. But

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the first thing that the show business people do is

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if they think about themselves. There's an old story about,

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you know, two guys meeting, two agents meeting for lunch

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and one gets there early the restaurant and he's stead

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of standing at the bar is having his iced tea.

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He's looking at the news and it's been a terrible

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plane crash. Everybody, you know, some plane went down, three

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hundred people died. And his colleague arrives a little late

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and says, what's going on, goes there's a plane plane crash.

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People died, and this college says, oh my god, is

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there anybody on it?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: And you know so that so I know the people

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who conclave.

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Speaker 3: The minute they woke up on Monday and said to Pop,

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Francis died, they're like, yes.

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Speaker 1: I mean terrible tragedy, but yes, right, because it's gonna

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you know what, the conclave rentals go way up because

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people want to know what's going on, and the movie's

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really good for that as a procedural. It's fantastic. I

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haven't seen it, but it's on my list.

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Speaker 2: So before we switch gears here to a different subject track,

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I will mention that I did see a great meme

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the last couple of days. And it's a split screen,

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and the first one is Catholics when they've chosen a

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new pope, and it sees white smoke coming out of

403
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the Vatican chimney, and then the bottom panel is baptist

404
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when they picked a new pastor and the scuple of

405
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guys huddled over steak on the grill in the backyard, which, yeah,

406
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that's perfect right, all right, we'll go back to politics

407
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here for a bit. Doctor Bastiat, who, by the way,

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published his one thousandth.

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Speaker 1: Ricochet post yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations, I know, I mean he gets Does he get

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a prize for that?

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Speaker 1: Guys?

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Speaker 2: I mean he should get some kind.

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Speaker 1: Of it's the deep appreciation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So he's asking I guess both of us,

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but I'll give you first crack in twenty twenty five,

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what is the fundamental difference between a Republican voter and

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a democratic voter, and we don't want to take the

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rest of the show for that because.

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Speaker 1: That could be I don't know. I honestly don't know,

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and I and again I don't, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, it's it's a volatile and hard to

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figure out. And we naturally, especially conservatives, naturally well, I

424
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mean everybody's a conservative in this perspective, naturally loathe and

425
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despised all change and calamity, or at least tumult. But

426
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I think that we are we are in the middle

427
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of a transition, and I think we're in the middle

428
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of new parties being sort of created. They may keep

429
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the same names, but they are morphing and becoming unrecognizable

430
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to their you know, whatever came before them twenty years before.

431
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And that I think is a part of American history

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that we have just decided we just didn't pay attention to.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think this is going to be

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I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about twenty twenty five, but I think

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it twenty these those two parties, I don't think they'll

437
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both be around. But if they are around, I don't

438
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think they're going to resemble what they used to do.

439
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I mean, I really don't I think they're gonna be different.

440
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think that there's one way in

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which the parties resemble each other, not on their level

442
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of ideas and what their policy objects are. They're quite

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different there. But I'm starting to pick up a party

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dynamic that you can trace an arc of over the

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last twenty years.

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Speaker 1: So you know, what explains Trump.

447
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Speaker 2: And one of the things that explains Trump is that Republicans,

448
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a lot of the grassroots, the conservative base, they were

449
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tired of conventional Republicans losing to Barack Obama, right, and

450
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so people, I mean, I'm sure you've heard all the

451
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rhetoric of people dumping on you know, first Mitt Romney

452
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and then John McCain for not being tough enough, not

453
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fighting hard enough, and so forth, or people who just

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like Mitch McConnell, which I think is gravely mistaken. I

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think he's been a very effective sent maybe the most

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effective Senate leader since Lyndon Johnson, because that's a job

457
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that requires a lot of skill to do what he's done.

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And I don't you know, Okay, so people take out

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their frustrations on him, and so you know, Trump came

460
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along as a breadth of fresh air and something new

461
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and different and breaks all the China and so forth. Now,

462
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I think Democrats are about to go through the same process.

463
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You know, they've now lost to Trump twice. I think

464
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there's huge buyers regret that they settled on Joe Biden

465
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in twenty twenty and then stuck with him in twenty

466
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twenty four. And so suddenly I am watching, as I'm

467
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sure you may, Bernie Sanders, who is the sentimental favorite

468
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of the lot of the party, is handing off the

469
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,880
mantle obviously to Alexandria Acossio Cortez. And I mean, right now,

470
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I don't like to make these kind of predictions because

471
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they're usually wrong, but right now she's my front runner

472
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for twenty twenty eight. I think you're about to see

473
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the Democrats lurks to They want their Trump or something

474
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like it, and they think they think it's going to

475
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be her or somebody like her. I still think they're

476
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better off with you know, Andy Basher or maybe even

477
00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,559
Governor Wes Moore of Maryland or Shapiro Pennsylvani. Yeah, they're

478
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:03,119
more conventional figures, and I think the party base wants

479
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,680
a brawler. They want their own Trump and I think

480
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,880
that may lead them into a disaster. I think they

481
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,920
could be heading to another McGovern in three years, depending

482
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,759
on everything else.

483
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: Right, that's what they see people said about Trump in

484
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,880
twenty sixteen. I mean, I think variet these groups are wrong.

485
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,559
I mean, I think the idea that Republicans were losing

486
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,440
and that Trump turned that around is just fundamentally wrong.

487
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,839
I mean, when when Barack Obama won a fifty eight

488
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,440
percent popular vote majority, I think, or fifty three percent.

489
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:32,519
Speaker 1: It wasn't fifty three, It wasn't that.

490
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 3: It was a giant, giant victory in two thousand and eight,

491
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,599
and it was so big that when he that in

492
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,880
twenty twelve, when he got a real run for his

493
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,480
money in the box office, in the ballot box, the

494
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:54,240
Bridian slip, he put so many votes that he could

495
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:58,559
still lose a lot of votes and still win. But

496
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:05,079
in twenty ten, the Republican took over the House and

497
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,000
Senate and stopped him in his tracks. And I think

498
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:11,960
sometimes these parties believe that if they win the White House,

499
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,839
they win everything and they get everything they want, and

500
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,839
that is not the way American politics works. Sometimes I'm

501
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,119
talking to my friends who are Trump supporters or you know,

502
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,839
even Democrats when they're projecting in the future and they

503
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,799
Democrats have An important thing for Republicans to remember is

504
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:33,519
that this psychosis about defending and protecting a president even

505
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:38,119
if he's weak and ineffectual. We saw with Democrats in Obama,

506
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,400
you were not allowed to criticize Obama. You must protect

507
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,039
Obama at all cases. And you're seeing the Republicans do

508
00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:45,359
at the same time, So they had this kind of

509
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,960
distorted view of the successes of these presidents. You know,

510
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:51,759
Trump is under it was a forty percent popularity barely

511
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:56,039
at this point. So if you're if you're AOC, you're like, well,

512
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:57,519
I could be forty percent popularity.

513
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: I could probably do that, and we may be setting up.

514
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 3: More volatility back and forth, back and forth, back and

515
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:05,759
forth with these parties, which is one of the reason

516
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:09,319
why they're out of gas. I don't I mean, I

517
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:15,160
guess what I would say is, uh, to understand American politics,

518
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,400
it's not a show. It's designed to not be a show.

519
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,319
It's designed to be a win, slow, complicated process, and

520
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,599
that if you win, the best you get, even if

521
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,920
you have the House, the White House, and the Senate,

522
00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:30,759
you get like a C plus B minus version of

523
00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:34,119
you want what you want, that's considered success. That's built

524
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,119
into the DNA of this country and the DNA of

525
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,119
this governance. There's no way to change that except to

526
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:41,839
change the government.

527
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: Well ah, okay, Well that leads me to my one

528
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,200
last point on this, which is thinking as a constitutionalist.

529
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,799
One of things I've been saying to liberals lately, and

530
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:54,759
it really upsets them, is says, look what Trump is doing.

531
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:57,599
This is the presidency you have always wanted, and all

532
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,640
the precedents going back to flepland Roosevelt and Would Wilson.

533
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,599
Speaker 1: So what's your problem? What's your argument?

534
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,519
Speaker 2: And keep in mind that what do we hear from

535
00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:08,160
Democrats the last few years when something's in their way?

536
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:11,799
Change it pack the Supreme Court, you know, let's abolish

537
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:14,079
the filibuster. That's not in the Constitution, but it's still,

538
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,200
you know, an institution they want to get rid of

539
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,279
because it's in their way. I do think, to answer

540
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:23,559
doctor Bostia's question, I do think Republicans are more constitutionalists

541
00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:24,319
in a serious way.

542
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: The Democrats are.

543
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: The Democrats are the Constitution as a matter of convenience

544
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,839
when it suits them. Rhetorically. And by the way, you know,

545
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,839
Trump has made these attacks on judges, you know, and

546
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,599
tweets and so forth. I tell people go back and

547
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,200
read not Roosevelt's court packing proposal, but read the speeches

548
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,599
he gave in nineteen thirty seven, attacking the court with

549
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:48,519
amazing ferocity. And it's way beyond anything Trump is said

550
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,839
about the court. And oh yeah, the idea that everybody

551
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:57,440
was all well behaved and American politics, it's long, long span,

552
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:02,160
resembles Trump more than yep, yep. I've been tron liberal.

553
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,480
I did this at the university, caught out a boulder

554
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440
a couple of weeks ago, to gasps in the audience.

555
00:29:06,519 --> 00:29:09,000
I just said, take these statements from Roosevelt, put him

556
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,480
in the mouth of Trump and see how you like it.

557
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:12,359
Speaker 1: And they wouldn't, right.

558
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know if there will be a rebalancing, well,

559
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,799
if Congress will I mean the terrorists for example, I mean,

560
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,640
regulating commerce with foreign nations is a power of Congress

561
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,119
an Article one, section eight, and they delegated a wholesale

562
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,519
to the president forty fifty years ago. And now, I mean,

563
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,200
maybe that was it. Maybe it fits with some older

564
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,519
cases that said Congress can't do that, which held up

565
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:37,079
Roosevelt briefly in the thirties, and it would be nice

566
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,160
if we actually got some restoration of proper constitutional balance

567
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,079
out of all. For that, I thought, you know, Trump,

568
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,039
maybe he's doing the Lord's work inadvertently.

569
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,799
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll see, yeah, well definitely invertally, but there

570
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,480
is that argument. I mean, any any gloss of the

571
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,480
US Constitution is pretty much you know, you can be

572
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,519
summed up by saying, don't do anything. Don't you dare government,

573
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:04,440
don't you dare the Constitution. We've distorted it over the past,

574
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,000
especially the last fifty years, as a document that enshrines

575
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:11,960
the rights of citizens, which it does, but mostly what

576
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:16,279
it does is that it restricts the powers of government.

577
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,160
And that's what that's what That's what they started by saying,

578
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,680
we're not going to get out of hand. And it's like, well,

579
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,880
you know, it's so much easier, as we said before,

580
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,200
it's so much easier to have government do it all

581
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,519
this stuff. I don't even want to do it. I mean,

582
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:28,359
I would rather sit here, you know, on my phone,

583
00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:31,440
play on my phone. And I think we're discovering that

584
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:35,880
government not doing things is a very very good, very

585
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,839
good strategy. You know, one of the things that annoys

586
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,039
me about this administration, the way it has annoyed me

587
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,079
about past administrations.

588
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: Is how quickly they act. Like if I with my.

589
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:51,559
Speaker 3: Executive orders or my sort of you know, Council of

590
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:57,039
Economic Advisors, I can bring manufacturing back. I am, I

591
00:30:57,079 --> 00:31:00,079
have a time machine and I and it's all just

592
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,000
this sort of nonsense to MSNBC slash talk radio boosterism

593
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,200
that isn't connected to reality and shouldn't be, because the

594
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:12,880
truth is that I don't want the government to start

595
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,000
planning the economy. I want free movement and capital and

596
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:20,599
entrepreneurship and innovation to do it.

597
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's keep going on the issue list. Chris

598
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,720
Williamson asks about illegal immigration. So we have this peculiar circumstance,

599
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,240
and here I have to say, I'm on Trump's side

600
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,240
about the problem here the fine points not to sure about.

601
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:38,680
But you know, the Biden administration simply opened the borders

602
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,640
and let millions of people come in without any due process.

603
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,039
By the way, if you and I had tried to

604
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:45,839
bring a suit saying our rights are being violated by

605
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:48,920
having an open border, because it's distorting. You could make

606
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,079
the claim it's distorting the municipal finances of where I lived,

607
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,799
like in New York City and so forth. Yeah, but

608
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,400
that lawsuit would have been tossed out of court immediately

609
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,079
for lack of standing. Okay, told that we can't deport

610
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:04,440
anybody without full due process hearings, which would take years.

611
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,119
And this seems on the level of common sense to

612
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,119
be perverse, and I think I fully agree with all that.

613
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,079
Maybe Congress needs to change the statutes. I don't know,

614
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,240
but I don't know if you're following this close to

615
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,960
a rob or not, because there's something new about every

616
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,359
five hours on the subway it like, But do you

617
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:23,519
have a quick take on it?

618
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: You know?

619
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:26,799
Speaker 3: My quick take is that you know, this is the

620
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:33,079
problem with letting a untenable.

621
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:34,599
Speaker 1: Situation get even more intentable, right, I.

622
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:36,759
Speaker 3: Mean, the fundamental problem with open borders is this, you

623
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:38,319
can either have open borders or you can have a

624
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:42,039
welfare state. You cannot have right, right, And if we're

625
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:44,480
not willing to make these decisions, and this this was

626
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:46,839
really kind of a scale problem because it was you know,

627
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,440
I'm living in California for thirty years, and when I

628
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,599
moved to California nineteen eighty eight. There was legal immigrants everywhere,

629
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,039
and nobody thought it was a problem.

630
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,279
Speaker 1: That was not a problem.

631
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: Nobody crossed the border for in the morning to sleep

632
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,960
in the busation. They're all working. Over time. That, like

633
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:06,160
a lot of things, a lot of things you can ignore,

634
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:10,559
gets very bad and starts to a media If you

635
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,799
if you're a black man, black American citizen, between the

636
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:16,960
ages of something and something else, probably at this point

637
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,759
now almost retired, you can genuinely quantify the harm that

638
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,359
illegal immigration or total lack of border enforcement has had

639
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,720
on that particular population.

640
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: That that's like, you.

641
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,079
Speaker 3: Can't even argue that, So that that is that it's

642
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,240
just absolute economic truth, right, And so now we have

643
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:36,839
to figure out a way to sort of build out

644
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:43,720
of that without without losing our sense of due process. Right.

645
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:45,720
It's very dangerous because you don't really want to go

646
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,319
you don't really want to cut those corners. The smartest

647
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:53,759
thing for us to do is to focus less on

648
00:33:53,839 --> 00:34:01,880
deportation and focus more on border enforcement and immediate deportation.

649
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,839
So you get those things done. So start like I mean,

650
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,480
obviously it's like low hanging fruit. Start the emergency stuff

651
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,760
first and then do the deportation stuff.

652
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:14,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's like, I mean, it's definitely a priority,

653
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:16,360
but it's not number one. It's got to be number five.

654
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: Well, now here's an interesting figure that you may have heard.

655
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,599
Barack Obama during his two terms deported three million people.

656
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

657
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: Now, now our immigration friends like Mikero Correan like to

658
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,159
point out that those numbers are kind of phony because

659
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,679
they were counting as deportations people they apprehended at the

660
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:35,920
border and turned back.

661
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:36,639
Speaker 3: Ah.

662
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,119
Speaker 2: But point number one there is at least the Obama

663
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:42,559
administration intercepted people and turned them back, and the Biden

664
00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:45,760
administration did none of that. Right, And what Trump has

665
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,239
proven is that if you're determined, it's actually pretty easy

666
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,599
to secure the border. I mean, the numbers have fallen

667
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,840
to an infinitesimly small level, smallest in forty or fifty years,

668
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,000
I think. And now, maybe some of that is, and

669
00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:59,440
here I don't want to deprecate it is maybe this

670
00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:02,360
is they've actually made people prayed across the border. That's

671
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,280
not entirely a bad thing in my mind, even though

672
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,400
it sounds kind of ugly. Perhaps I think also some

673
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:09,840
of these deportations because there's so many people who I

674
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,920
think would be eligible legitimately to be deported, the numbers

675
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,239
are too large to actually do it as a practical matter.

676
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:18,199
So now we're getting back to you know, Mitt Romney's

677
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,360
the one who used that phrase that cost him dearly

678
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:23,800
self deportation. And there are lots of anecdotes of people

679
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,159
who are leaving on their own because they don't want

680
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:27,679
to be swept up and sent to a prison in

681
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,679
El Salvador or any other place.

682
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: Right, So, I don't know, I want to let this

683
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:32,400
play out.

684
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I give Trump the benefit of the

685
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,519
doubt on this, even though they're going to make mistakes,

686
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:41,360
just as law enforcement does always on everything. And by

687
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,039
the way, I mean, you know again I'm a bit

688
00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:45,840
of a cynic, but getting the Democrats to defend a

689
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,639
guy who pretty much looked like he was an MS

690
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,960
thirteen gang member and right, I mean, what a work

691
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,440
a political genius that is.

692
00:35:53,800 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like you're the me too movement, it

693
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,960
must be twisting yourself at the pretzels, because that is

694
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:06,719
he is not a He's definitely a me too violator.

695
00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would, I'm a I'm a I'm a.

696
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,639
Speaker 3: You know, down the line squish, not a squish, but

697
00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:16,639
down the line, you know, completely uncreative thinker. I get

698
00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:19,480
my immigration advice from Mark Grecrian. He was only here's

699
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:22,639
your on the podcast, right, and his argument seems to

700
00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:24,480
me to be right, which is that like, okay, the

701
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:30,280
deportations are crazyly hard and incredibly impossible to scale. That's

702
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,159
a self deportation one. And you you enforce that on

703
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:38,039
the everify sign, like if you can't get a job

704
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:41,599
here and then you go home, and that it's not

705
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,000
gonna be everybody, but it's gonna be it's gonna reduce

706
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,480
a huge number of people you have to and then

707
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:48,760
you just you and you have border security.

708
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: And that said that, that's that way.

709
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: The problem is getting worse, and then the organism kind

710
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,960
of digests and ejects and then processes the people who

711
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,400
are left. And I the DAD is a doable solution,

712
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,000
an actual solution. It doesn't sound very good.

713
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now here's an interesting question that's directed to me, Rob,

714
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,719
But I'll bet you have some insight and thoughts on

715
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,880
this sense you lived in Venice for such a long time.

716
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:16,519
It's from Sandra Blondie Bright in North Carolina, and she says,

717
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:18,079
you know, we're here in North Carolina. We're trying to

718
00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:20,639
get back to normal after the hurricane several months ago

719
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,119
blew through, and there's lots of great volunteer efforts going on.

720
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: I've heard all that.

721
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of social capital in that

722
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,280
part of North Carolina. Uh. The question is is what

723
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,679
type of things have you seen or heard about rebuilding

724
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,000
out here in the LA area after the fires? And

725
00:37:35,079 --> 00:37:37,159
now it's maybe relevant that I am actually coming to

726
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,360
you this morning as we're recording from Malibu. It's graduation

727
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:43,159
day for the School of Public Policy, where I'm a

728
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:44,119
faculty member now.

729
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: And so I so you're are you? Is that that's Pepperdine, right, Yes,

730
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,280
that's Pepperdine correct, Right, So this is your office at

731
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,400
Pepperdine we're looking at Yes it is. Yeah, I just

732
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:54,280
I don't have a shelves are not full of books.

733
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,679
But it's brand new for me. So, but the point

734
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,840
is I'm allowed the office. I gotta say, I I

735
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,920
don't want to help you, but I have a nice

736
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,679
view of the mountains out my windows.

737
00:38:03,679 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: So you're looking at it, So leave you got a

738
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,639
view so, like I'm saying, right, Pepperdine has got to

739
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:11,880
be the most gorgeously situated university in the world.

740
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:13,159
Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous.

741
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: I joke. It's like teaching a club med and I

742
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,840
always ask the dean please don't give me a classroom

743
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,239
with windows out on the ocean, because then you know,

744
00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,559
I'll be competing with the ocean as well as all

745
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:25,880
the kids smartphones right in class. But look, I'm only

746
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,400
a mile north of where Highway one Pacific Coast Highway

747
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:31,719
is closed to general traffic because of all the still

748
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,239
the excavation work or the you know, the demolition work,

749
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,960
which is going to take forever because a lot of

750
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,159
those houses when they burned down, you might have some

751
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,559
of the oldest bestos, so lead pained or this and that,

752
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,239
and plus just the fire creates lots of toxic residue.

753
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,440
And it's going very slowly. Uh. What I've heard is

754
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,679
that I think the city of la it may be

755
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:52,320
a little more now, but as of a week or

756
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,119
two ago, the only issued four four one two three

757
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:59,519
four four building permits for rebuilding of houses that burned down,

758
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,679
which is pathetic. I mean, they keep saying, oh, we're

759
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,800
going to you know, fast track the process. Well, it's

760
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,320
really not happening. And as for volunteer efforts, good luck.

761
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,280
I don't think they will let anybody in who wants

762
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,679
to volunteer to clear out lots. And I know two

763
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:15,920
people who lost their homes at least one in Pacific

764
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,639
Palisades and one in Pasadena. And you must know some

765
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,840
people rob from your long time, so many people in

766
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,639
your industry where they're in Pacific Palisades, And yeah, it's

767
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,480
it's amazing.

768
00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:31,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I actually have not I only know

769
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:35,079
one anecdote, which is a decide you know, don't it's

770
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,519
on a data point. But I know, and I don't

771
00:39:38,559 --> 00:39:41,159
know this person personally, but I heard the story was

772
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:42,920
on a crew A member of the crew, a usual

773
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,239
member crew called below the line there and the budget dudey,

774
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,360
I think he gave us some focus puller. He hit

775
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,559
a job right on a movie cruise and lived in

776
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:54,880
a part of town called mar Vista, which is you know,

777
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,760
it's the most part of town but it's like it's

778
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,679
not fancy, and had a house there. I bought it

779
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:02,719
his family, like in the late seventies, early eighties, and

780
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,400
he was going to lose the house because there's don't

781
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,480
work in LA and there's been no work in that

782
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:08,360
in what he does, and so he was thinking that

783
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:10,239
I'm gonna have lose his house. We're probably gonna lose

784
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:16,519
the house and leave. And then the fires happened and

785
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,280
somebody offered to rent his house. Somebody from the Pacific

786
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,199
Pali state. It's offered to rent his house in mar Vista.

787
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,519
So there's always you know, and apparently he's filled with

788
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:30,800
guilt about this because you know, it's like, well, I

789
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,199
cants it.

790
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: Now, I've saved my house. I get to rent it

791
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,559
out at a very high price, and I get.

792
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: To you know, he and his wife, I think are

793
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,280
moving just out of town somewhere for now, anywhere.

794
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,119
Speaker 1: They're almost retired, and.

795
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,079
Speaker 3: I should I feel guilty, but I I'm it saved

796
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:47,440
my life. So I don't know make of that way

797
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,400
you will. Yeah, it doesn't really answer the question.

798
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: But right, well, now I do have a show business

799
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:58,280
question for you from Gary McVeigh. Yeah, and he says,

800
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,840
so he points out that you know, you started out

801
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,320
the TV and film business, and in those days film

802
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,519
was art and TV was furniture. Is that one of

803
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:11,000
your phrases. It's okay, well it says it all changed

804
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:14,480
radically and today it's prestige. TV is on the top

805
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:18,800
of the heap artistically over theatrical films. Or is his

806
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,599
phrase I guess is TV is hot. Movies are old. Now.

807
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:23,320
I've heard you talk about this a little bit on

808
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,920
the The Glop podcast and a couple of your three

809
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,159
martini lunches. I'll give you a sort of my theory.

810
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:32,079
I'll add on to what Gary s is a long

811
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:35,239
form TV allows you to tell stories at glater leisure,

812
00:41:35,519 --> 00:41:37,960
developed the characters more. I don't always like that. By

813
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,360
the way, I think I'm with you when someone I'm

814
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,280
exactly with you. When someone tells me, oh, it gets

815
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,079
good at episode five, I'm out say. I might even

816
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,239
get through episode one, right, this is ridiculous. But I

817
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,760
do think there's something to that. And I don't know.

818
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,119
Maybe I'm not sure if the pace of production is

819
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:57,760
actually longer because you have more time to set up shots.

820
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,440
And I don't know, but movies these days is uh, gosh,

821
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,960
it must be. I'm just guessing here because I've never

822
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,440
done it. But for directors and producers, you've got the

823
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,639
budget you've got a schedule, expensive actors, You're you want

824
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:13,320
to get it done expeditiously, and you may do fifteen

825
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,440
takes of a scene.

826
00:42:14,519 --> 00:42:17,679
Speaker 1: Probably do. But the TV shows, I.

827
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: Don't know, I they do seem very lavishly produced. Whatever

828
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,840
I see a rerun from a show from even the eighties,

829
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,920
I'm just kind of amazing, so cheap, right, I mean,

830
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,039
you know an old magnum p I rerun, I just

831
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,079
laugh and giggle.

832
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:35,159
Speaker 3: In the seventies, you know, the seventies cop shows, if

833
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:37,519
you watch them, pretty much every episode this boom shadow

834
00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:40,280
and somebody goes, I got some boom shadow, and that

835
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,639
meaning when the boom might come right in between the

836
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,119
lights and you can kind of see it the shadow,

837
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:51,519
And then the answer is like that's fine. Yeah, everything

838
00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:54,960
has gotten easier, so everything to shoot, all movies or

839
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,960
everything's easier.

840
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,199
Speaker 1: You know they used to be. You know, you used

841
00:42:58,199 --> 00:42:58,639
to have to like.

842
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:02,119
Speaker 3: Cable pullers and people like and even in TV if

843
00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:05,000
you watch live TV, especially shows like you know, Today's

844
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,559
Show or elaborate of those things in New York City,

845
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,880
you know the number of people they had to employ

846
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:13,199
just to carry cable around. And then there's like twenty

847
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,679
years where they didn't carry those people. There was no

848
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,239
cable to carry, but you still had to hire those

849
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,480
people because the union rules for such so that you know,

850
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:21,599
you every one of these sets, you'd find there was

851
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,199
a room with a table and the doughnuts and just

852
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:26,239
guys sitting around because you couldn't fire them, but they

853
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,280
had nothing to do. A lot of that is I mean,

854
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:32,039
so it's gotten simpler. But the thing is, I would

855
00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:34,599
say that, and I would say this. You know, Gary

856
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,719
is a film historian, a film buff. He's like ran

857
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,079
the American Cinema Foundation. That's how I've known it for years.

858
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:42,960
And I you know, here's the bad news for Gary.

859
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,360
It's that everything is TV.

860
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,119
Speaker 1: It isn't that one is one has moved up from prestige.

861
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,159
Speaker 3: The others dropped. There isn't the other one. There are

862
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,760
movies that have a theatrical release for weirdos the way

863
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:03,719
they still press vinyl. But it's all TV. And that

864
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:11,000
is because inexorably, for some reason, the screen wants to

865
00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:15,280
get closer to the customer. And you know, so the

866
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,760
screen was first it was downtown and you know, the

867
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,679
big downtown movie theater, and then the screen and then

868
00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:23,880
the screen moved to the suburbs, and then the screen

869
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,679
moved your pocket. And I don't think that's necessarily an improvement,

870
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:29,760
but I think it's a movement.

871
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: Well all right now, it does strike me that there

872
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,280
are still a few movies or directors who managed to

873
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,679
produce movies that you really want to see in the theater.

874
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,880
So you think of Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer, you really wanted

875
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,800
to see that in a big theater. The top gun

876
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,320
to a movie, I think, same thing, you know, totally.

877
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,960
And then, of course the big hit right now is

878
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,000
the Minecraft movie, which has just torn up the box office.

879
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,239
Right that seemed kind of obvious to me that that

880
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,039
might be a hit. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know,

881
00:44:56,119 --> 00:44:59,119
but it looks like it's still possible. And is that

882
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:01,119
replicable or those one offs you think?

883
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,559
Speaker 3: I think that the well, the irony is that they

884
00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:07,360
are one offs, I think. But show business has always

885
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,480
been about one offs. It's only recently that we believe that,

886
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,519
oh no, everything should be a franchise and it should

887
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:15,840
be the Marvel Cinematic universe. That's that's completely bananas for

888
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,719
most people in show business. For almost one hundred years,

889
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:20,559
you had to come up with a story and make

890
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:22,960
a movie. So I think I think that that could

891
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:25,559
return because it's still kind of fun to go to

892
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:27,519
the movies, but you got to give me a reason

893
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:30,599
to go. That isn't Yeah that I but I would

894
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:34,400
just also say that that, you know, the the TV

895
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,119
shows that are serialized that seem to be working are

896
00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:39,599
the ones that are kind of remind you of old

897
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:42,400
fashioned TV or old fashion movies. Reacher. I don't know

898
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,039
anybody watch Reacher. Yeah, you know, it's a huge hit

899
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:48,480
for Amazon. You watch that show and it's like it

900
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:54,000
is super super low rent. That show is cheap. I mean,

901
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,079
I'm watching that show and I'm thinking I have seen

902
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:59,440
that car before that set before you guys rented a

903
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:03,360
house and you're shooting you're shooting out the house, like

904
00:46:03,559 --> 00:46:05,519
all the scenes of the house, and like there's no

905
00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:11,559
there are no extras. The town square is always empty.

906
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: Empty for no reason.

907
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,599
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be, you know, like and they just they

908
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:16,960
have no they just don't spend any money.

909
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,079
Speaker 1: But it's it's it works. It's fine. You don't need

910
00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:21,559
that much money, all right.

911
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: So I have a general question for the Ricochet podcast,

912
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,880
and then I've got a couple of exit questions for you,

913
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,119
Rob so Stad asks have you thought about putting together

914
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:34,559
an activity book titled Where's Peter?

915
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:37,599
Speaker 1: Where are You?

916
00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: Peter?

917
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:44,039
Speaker 3: Peter is taking a break and I think he's going

918
00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:47,719
to return in Triumph, but he might also be doing

919
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,400
I think he's doing some writing too, So I mean,

920
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,400
and also I feel like, you know, look, we love

921
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,599
doing this and I love doing when I can. As

922
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:56,519
you know, I'm a humble cleric now, so I don't

923
00:46:56,519 --> 00:47:04,400
have much time between my devotionals. But you know, refreshing,

924
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,360
the rushing, the voices in the formats always a good thing.

925
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:08,239
It's always a good thing.

926
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been fun to do, I have to say.

927
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,199
So it's uh so all right, aturally, well I will.

928
00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:16,000
It's nice of you to say I've been but look,

929
00:47:16,039 --> 00:47:19,039
I'm similar do you. I'm a professional talker. I've been

930
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:21,079
doing this for a long time. Right, it's it comes

931
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:24,159
from professor itis and so forth. Yeah, all right, so

932
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,480
let's do this there. I'm gonna sort of combine a

933
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:30,119
few different questions into this one, which is you have

934
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,519
just finished or in the process of finishing right now,

935
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:35,920
your first year they're at seminary, how long is the

936
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:36,840
whole process.

937
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: That three years, two years, three years, three years?

938
00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: Right? And do you have one or two takeaways or

939
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,000
main takeaways or and or surprises from your first year?

940
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: The surprises I find from my classmates and colleagues who

941
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,559
come from non denominational traditions, ah, you know more got

942
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:02,880
tocostals some of them, but were even more not not

943
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:03,360
a a shoal.

944
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:05,119
Speaker 1: And how.

945
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: How fun and funny they are, and how smart they

946
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,559
are and how passionate they are about renewing their faith

947
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,840
and their church and learning from other people. And I

948
00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:19,400
find that was really really refreshing. And I and and

949
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,679
their lack of pretense, which is something that we in

950
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,039
the sort of Anglican cohort have to remind ourselves because

951
00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:31,239
Episcopalians and Anglicans tend to be super pompous and tweet

952
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:35,119
and precious about everything. And it's nice to be around

953
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:38,960
young people who are filled with faith but but are

954
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,719
not that that's that's been really kind of glorious. The

955
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,840
second thing you discover, I mean, you know, it's a

956
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,800
funny thing. It's I don't know why I should know

957
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,800
this as a conservative, but you know, Santa Augustine, Saint Augustine.

958
00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: He was really good. Yep, yeah, he was really good.

959
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:57,320
Like that's really good stuff.

960
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 3: And if you read it, you're like, oh man, damn,

961
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:06,400
that's a really good And then something that professor said

962
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,719
early on in the in the semester in our New

963
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,599
Testament class is a wonderful, wonderful writer, wonderful wonderful guy said,

964
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:19,119
you know, the people who translated the Bible from the Greek,

965
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,800
we're not idiots. So when you go and you do

966
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,239
a word study, you know, you don't expect to discover

967
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,119
something or don't start everything with like, you know, actually

968
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,199
the more accurate translation from the Hebrew of the Greek

969
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,159
is this. It's like, the people have been doing this

970
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:42,239
for a thousand years. So I have a little respect

971
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,840
for the people. Assume for a minute that the reason

972
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,079
it's lasted a thousand years, the reason that word has

973
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:49,119
lasted on a thousand years is because it's the right word.

974
00:49:50,119 --> 00:49:52,760
It may not be, but don't start for the premise

975
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,280
of like I'm going to find out where you guys

976
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,360
are wrong, because you're just going to waste your time

977
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,159
and look like an idiot. And I thought, oh, yeah,

978
00:49:58,199 --> 00:49:59,920
that's a very good point. That is not something that

979
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:04,840
you say to people in when they're beginning inquiry, and

980
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:07,559
in something you kind of say, you know, think a

981
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:11,360
new but partly he's like, you think a new but don't, yeah,

982
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:15,360
don't say dumb stuff about Greek, because people who've been

983
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:15,880
this for a long.

984
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: Time, those old words have a lot of staying power. Uh,

985
00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:22,280
it's something you just said. It tracks the court with me.

986
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,360
You actually have some people there from a Pentecostal background.

987
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,039
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, Princeton has a very very broad appeal.

988
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:33,159
So there's interesting the you know, the Anglicans, and there's

989
00:50:33,199 --> 00:50:36,639
some Anglican Anglo Catholics, and then there's some Roman Catholics,

990
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,480
and there's some Metecostals and some non Denominationals, and there's

991
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,639
some it's lousy of the Presbyterians because the Presbyterian started it.

992
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,280
But but yeah, you have you have this kind of

993
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,079
cacophonous group of of.

994
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,599
Speaker 2: Students. Well in a certain way that doesn't surprise me,

995
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,119
especially if I'm gonna run an idea by you and

996
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:00,800
see if it if you detect this and seminary also,

997
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,119
but I have long my own experience at graduate school

998
00:51:04,119 --> 00:51:05,800
a long time ago now, but also from when I

999
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,960
talk to faculty and meet other graduate students. Is conservative

1000
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:13,920
graduate students. Let's put this way. I had liberal professors

1001
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,360
who said they loved having conservative students in the class,

1002
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,480
not for a gratuitous argument, but because the conservatives took

1003
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,239
the material more seriously. They didn't have the mentality do

1004
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,920
we have to memorize this because it's going to be

1005
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,280
on the test now. Our v was always like, why

1006
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,559
did Madison say that? What's his reasoning? Maybe it's right,

1007
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,599
And a lot of professors, even if they were new

1008
00:51:35,639 --> 00:51:38,880
deoliberals in my case, they liked that disposition among students.

1009
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,440
And I am guessing that something similar happens at seminary.

1010
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,159
You might have non denominational people, Pentecostals, people from a

1011
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,360
culturally more conservative background than you think of her Ivy league,

1012
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,000
who bring to the seminary a seriousness about the subject

1013
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,239
matter and not a modern historicist condescension.

1014
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,559
Speaker 1: Is that a reasonable proposition? I think that's true.

1015
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:04,199
Speaker 3: I think they probably, like like anybody in the in

1016
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,719
these kind in these theological institutions in harved Yale, Princeton, Virginia.

1017
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:15,280
Let's say that, Duke, they're liberal, but they there is

1018
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,679
this the purposefulness of the study the idea that it's

1019
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,519
kind of a weird elevated trade school, right. I mean,

1020
00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:25,440
you're supposed to be the right, and you're and you're

1021
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:29,000
encouraged to share that in class. You're you're absolutely they

1022
00:52:29,039 --> 00:52:32,039
were pretty much every every exam I've ever taken or

1023
00:52:32,039 --> 00:52:34,440
every paper I've written has had a section so please

1024
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,320
think about these issues and apply them to what you

1025
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,360
think they would apply to in the ministry future ministry.

1026
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,559
And so I think that part of that, that purposefulness.

1027
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:53,039
You just don't have a time or inclination too to

1028
00:52:53,199 --> 00:52:56,960
get too weird with it because or to be incendiary

1029
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:00,960
or to scream at somebody in as who disagrees with

1030
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:05,800
you politically, because we're here for a higher purpose. And

1031
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,159
that purpose isn't to tear down. It's to sort of,

1032
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,559
you know, figure out, yeah, where to go next. And

1033
00:53:10,599 --> 00:53:12,880
so I suspect it's it's it's one of the reasons

1034
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,679
why the politics that are very liberal on the campus,

1035
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,440
which I enjoyed. These are all smart people. I enjoyed

1036
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:24,920
talking to them. They don't seem as furious as they

1037
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,519
seem other places. They don't seem as like divisive.

1038
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all right, let's get out with this, Rob,

1039
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,239
so you you one takeaway here is sant Augustine that

1040
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:35,639
he was a really smart guy.

1041
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: Turns out he was good.

1042
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so next year we'll want to find out if

1043
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,199
you proceed on to the other Saint Thomas aquineas but

1044
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,159
also done Scotus and Selm.

1045
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:45,639
Speaker 1: I'll bet that.

1046
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 2: Before right. Well, that'll be fun to take up with

1047
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,039
you next year. But for now, we want to thank

1048
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:57,559
all of our readers for sending him questions. We want

1049
00:53:57,559 --> 00:54:00,880
to think Bamboo h R for sponsoring the Cricochet podcast.

1050
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:05,440
Please go to Apple, Spotify, whatever place as you source

1051
00:54:05,519 --> 00:54:08,320
your podcast and give us a five star review and

1052
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,360
we'll look forward to seeing you in the comments at Ricochet.

1053
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: Is it four or five point zero?

1054
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,199
Speaker 2: Now I've lost track of what we're up to, but anyway, up,

1055
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:17,239
see you he in soon, Rob.

1056
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is fun. Let's do it in okay, Bye

1057
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,079
bye everybody,