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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Dan Valley coming at

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you with the one the Old League. They'll legendary this certified,

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fantabulous co host of Mine and mister Grant Hughes. I

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don't know why I was super possessive there, co host

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of Mine. You can't mean anyone else. You're not even

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your own co host, You're not even your own person. Uh.

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We're gonna talk about storylines, things that we're monitoring that

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we think will define the rest of the NBA season.

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Feels like a good time to do it, in large

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part because we had some expansion content plan for everybody,

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and the Ringer went often did their own week, and

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so it just felt like we didn't want to look

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like it was cripping stuff from them. But let the

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record show, even though you will not see it, we

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had it. I mean they had it in the clip too, obviously,

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but Grant and I had discussed it before the Ringer

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had their expansion week. Maybe we'll revisit over the offseason.

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For now, we're gonna dig into storylines and stuff that

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we're monitoring. But first, the most important question, Hughes, co

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host of Mine, how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Uh? I just think that I feel I feel good

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because another outlet built an entire week around an idea

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we also had. So it's kind of like a validating

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I feel validated. How about that you feel you should?

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You should feel validated. You're the one that pitched it initially,

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so I think I think you should. I mean, it's

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bittersweet obviously because we're not gonna be able to do it.

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Speaker 1: But uh, if you paranoid like they were, clearly they

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didn't plant it themselves and they went and did this like,

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oh well two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're either being monitored or I mean, you are

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being monitored if we're all being monitored, but like or

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the group think has become so pervasive that it's just

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like there's no everybody's brains all sync up now. I

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think at as you know, on topics and timing of them.

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Speaker 1: What was interesting to talk the storyline stuff? Which was

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your pitch? So good on you, shout out, shout out

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co host of Mine, Grant Hughes. You henceforth will be

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known as what was this exercise? Like? What did you

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kind of find your self gravitating towards before we dig

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into And by the way, this is one of the

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episodes where granted I don't know what the other is

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got going to say, so that'll be fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it was just kind of the All

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Star break is not the midpoint, obviously we all have

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to point that out, but it is like an arbit

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you know, the semi arbitrary cutoff where after it, it

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feels like there is kind of this like, oh my god,

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there's less than thirty games for a lot of teams left,

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and it is it does feel kind of sprinty and like, okay,

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we need to learn X, Y and Z now before

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the playoffs because this is our last opportunity. So I

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definitely view it through that lens of like what big

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issues am I still not sure about for And frankly,

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it does tend to skew more towards good teams because

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that's you know, this time of year is when you

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start to see the tankers, like Capital T tank and

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you see the best teams hopefully trying to like work

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through stuff or establish rotations or see if this weakness

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that's been an issue all year can be like that

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kind of thing. So I definitely just looked at it

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like what am I concerned about? What do I not

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have like a lot of clarity on that feels like

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a big issue that's gonna brush up against Like I

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think what I'm gonna wind up doing is talk a

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lot about like what will this mean for the playoffs?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Sort of, it's kind of an indirect connection to that.

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Is that is that how you view it? Or is

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it more like stuff of the moment stuff?

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Speaker 1: I think there's some. I mean, it's it's tough to

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focus too much on the moment outside of the the

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macro of wins and losses and where how does it

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impact the playoffs? Because sometimes you do get like there's

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news updates now, but there's nothing that like past the

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trade deadline, past the All Star break, like there's aside

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from injuries like that, what is what else are you

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living in the moment for? Like now kind of feels

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like we've entered like this is a prolongated judgment day.

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Of these teams are or for the most part, you

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would think they are who they are, except for maybe

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the teams that made these monster editions at the deadline,

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like A or the Warriors as examples.

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Speaker 2: I think another shift that happens you just made me

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think of is that up to the All Star break.

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I think we spend a lot of time, you know,

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focused on younger players, rookies, guys that are like, well,

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what would it mean if this player got this much

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better or improved in this way to the team, Like

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and you're you're looking for like you know, upward trajectory

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type stuff like what's changing, Like what's what does that

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mean big picture for the team, for the league? Whatever.

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You pass the All Star break and it's like, well,

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you know, now, if like a rookie has a hot stretch,

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we'll be like, well, this is a Jalen Green thing,

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or this is an Anthony Simon's thing, or this is

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a whatever, Like we don't put stock in it, which

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is probably unfair because the games still count, but we

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all agree that, like it's you know, there's a lot

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of mistakes you can make if you're judging things on

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the last thirty games of the year. So it pivots

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from that to like now I was watching We're recording

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this Friday. I was watching pay Grizzlies last night, and

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like I catch myself just thinking about like, all right,

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what does this mean versus a playoff opponent? Like, man,

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you know the Pacers got actually really good forward play

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like over top and looked pretty good. He was hitting threes, Like, hey,

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what's that mean? In Memphis? John Moran doesn't look very

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springy to me, and wonder what that means? Like what

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if you know, just you're always I pivot to playoff

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thinking as opposed to like, let's watch for like the

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new things that are happening and that you know what

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I mean. Like it just there's a real fundamental shift

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that happens in how I watch games.

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Speaker 1: It's like bigger picture stuff too, where it's like even

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you're you know, you're you're watching the games, you're like

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taking away things from them, but it's less about the

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individual takeaways and everything to meet For me now not everything,

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but most things now come back, well, how does this

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impact the aggregate? And I think that's most of my

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stuff because even one of my things is like it's

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kind of you through the lens of one team and player,

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but it's actually like relating to the entire conference of

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the like. So that's I don't know if I do

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that on purpose or if that's just how my mind

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works this time of the year.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing, the last thing too, is

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is like, by now we have a rough idea of

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what team's basic strengths and weaknesses are, and you find

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yourself looking at like, okay, what can't this team do?

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Like what is what is the like little sore spot

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to pick at? And is there is what I'm watching

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showing me any signs that, oh maybe they could do this,

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like oh maybe they can defend the rim, Oh maybe

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they can hold up when this player's off the floor,

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and you just are kind of like again projecting forward.

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I think like the fifty games we've seen make it

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so that we have like some pretty well established priors,

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and then it's just like okay, is that good enough? A?

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And then b if it's not, like is there a

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possibility that this flaw or this deficiency can be like

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papered over enough to like, okay, well maybe they won't

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get bounced in the first round because of it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get started, and grant is going to begin for us.

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Where are we going, mister Hughes.

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Speaker 2: We're going to me putting you on the spot unannounced

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really quickly. Do you want to and this is unfair,

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but whatever, we've been doing this long enough. Do you

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want to try to guess where I'm gonna start.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, please go Okay, I think you're gonna start

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with Jimmy Butler and the Golden State Warriors.

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Speaker 2: You're so wrong, Dan, that's my second item.

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Speaker 1: I specifically didn't pick anything Warriors specific because I just

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assumed that you would be on top of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I hesitated to anyway, that's not where we're starting.

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We'll get there. I think I'm obligated to start with

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paying attention to the thunder offense without shake Gil just

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Alexander on the floor because it does have an indirect,

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actually pretty direct relation to Jalen Williams, and I thought

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you would assume that that's where I was gonna start.

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So this team is still just looking like one of

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the best defenses of all time. That feels really sustainable

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to me, especially since they did it for most of

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this year without Chet Holmgren, and I think you and

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you agree.

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Speaker 1: Oh where they rank all time and error adjust to

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defensive rating as of right now?

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Speaker 2: Since I just had to write about it, I would

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love to know that they.

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Speaker 1: Have, relative to the league average, the eleventh best defense

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of all time, and I pretty I feel like they're

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just gonna get into the top ten. I know they

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might fade a little bit because the one seed is

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locked up, but Chet's back, as you said, and so

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I think I think they'll finish as one of the

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ten best ever.

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Speaker 2: And we agree this isn't part of the discussion like

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Chet is when he's healthy, just you, you don't get

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far in the All Defense first team conversation before his

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name comes up, like it's he's that level, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I think when you're talking about Defensive Player

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of the Year, which is we'll talk about this eventually

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takes on a little bit new meaning. Now it's there

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might be some people inclined to argue for someone on

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the Thunder to win that award, they shouldn't because the

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player who would win that award is if Chet was

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healthy this year, he probably would have been second behind Wemby,

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and now maybe would have been the favorite for first

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because there's a lot of bi committee stuff. But just

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to your point to back, like I think Chet is

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just he's still just to me, the single most important

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defender on that Thunder team.

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Speaker 2: Which is bonkers because they're so good without him. But yeah,

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I agree. So it's been an issue all year and

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the Thunder are team that is good enough to where

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you really do like, like we alluded to at the top,

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like you really do have to look for like, okay,

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where are the questions? And I think this is probably

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number one, because smart playoff defenses that can spend more

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time game planning, can spend more time, not just you know,

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the obvious thing is like let's get it out of

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Shay's hands so that we can turn minutes when he's

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on the floor, so that we can make those minutes

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actually resemble the minutes where he's off, you know, like

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we can. It's not just going to be as simple

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as the on off splits from the regular season just

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won't translate to the playoffs because teams are going to

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be more conscientious. Like it's coaching malpractice if you don't

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approach every Thunder game as a playoff opponent and down

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the stretch opponent of the season with like job one

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is like if we just have to hold down Shay,

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like whatever that means, that has to be job one.

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That like, that's that's obvious for any team with the superstar,

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but it's more obvious for this one than really any other.

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So just some numbers, right, the Thunder offense with overall

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eighty fourth percentile like one hundred nineteen point five per

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one hundred. It's actually like with a defense that good,

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that's just absurd. It's when Shay is off the floor,

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you lose about ten points per hundred off that you

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go from the eighty fourth percentile to the twenty second

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percentile that numbers one oh seven. Here's a crazy one

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with SGA off and with Jalen Williams on. So it's

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worse with Williams on and SGA off than it is

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with both of them off. So right there, I think,

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like my antenna is my bias is like, oh good,

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it's as it actually doesn't mean that, you know, it

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is so bad that that just like that doesn't pass

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the smell test. You're dealing with smaller samples like and

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that margin is pretty close. So it's been pretty clear

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a year though that like Jalen Williams as a primary

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initiator without Gildess Alexander on the floor just isn't good enough.

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Like on offense, it's just even with the so with

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the defense that good, they actually do like it's kind

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of shocking they still I think win the minutes that

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that jadab is on without SGA because the defense is

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still just like you can't score, but the offense falls

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apart to the point that it's like we're getting down

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towards like Wizard's levels the So then I looked at like, well, okay,

239
00:11:30,279 --> 00:11:32,639
but what about Chet because it helps to have a

240
00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:35,519
five that can space and you know, handle the ball

241
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,399
and do a little bit that the offensive rating tiny sample,

242
00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:42,120
it's like one hundred and fifty possessions with Williams and

243
00:11:42,279 --> 00:11:45,360
Holgren on without SGA. So it's just like, oh, it's

244
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,720
Jada plus Holmgren, you don't have SGA. Still it's a

245
00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:51,399
one to fifteen offensive rating that's above league average. So

246
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,080
it's like, that'll do it. If the defense is gonna

247
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,720
be that good and you have those two guys out

248
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,519
there and you can put any stock in one hundred

249
00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,879
and fifty possessions that that's sufficient. And then you think

250
00:12:01,879 --> 00:12:04,960
about two playoff minutes without SGA are going to be

251
00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:08,080
fewer than they have been in the regular season. I think,

252
00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,519
having looked at all that, if you're a thunder fan,

253
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,320
you should feel a little a little better. But I

254
00:12:15,399 --> 00:12:19,559
do think every like this will just be tested from

255
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,480
moment one of the first round, and as defenses get

256
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:28,519
increasingly more like just effective and well coached, well deployed,

257
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,440
it is just gonna be the defining aspect of the

258
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,960
Thunder's possible championship run. And like I can't, Like I said,

259
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,080
I think you should feel a little better about the

260
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,159
non SGA minutes offensively, but I don't think you should

261
00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:45,279
feel confident, Like I don't think you should feel like

262
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,720
it's not a problem. Where are you on it? Like

263
00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:49,360
I know I threw a lot of numbers out there,

264
00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:54,080
but like, do you think that Chet being back sort

265
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,639
of forces us to reevaluate the whole thing? Or is

266
00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:59,720
this a problem that like we really are just it's

267
00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:02,679
gonna need to be proven wrong by the Thunder.

268
00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: I think so I think it's both. If that's weird,

269
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,559
I appreciate your proprietary metrics as always, So that was

270
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,200
really I think those were really instructional because I do

271
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,919
think it's overblown, because I think they have the personnel

272
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,399
and just the lineup flexibility to overcome it and be

273
00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:21,679
better when they're at full strength in the non SGA minutes,

274
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000
but we haven't seen it in the playoffs, and given

275
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,759
how Jay Dubb struggled offensively in the playoffs last year.

276
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,200
To me, there's a lot of you need to do

277
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,039
it in the playoffs for it to matter, and the

278
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,879
fact that they haven't caps locked done it during the

279
00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:37,440
regular season. Now you could say it's because Chet was absent.

280
00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:39,840
I also think what was really encouraging they have about

281
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,440
a league average offense when it's Jay dub and Isaiah

282
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,000
Hartenstein on with Shay Gilder Alexander off And I was

283
00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:48,720
gonna ask you, even though you were just talking for

284
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,320
a while, so I don't mean to throw it back

285
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,679
on you. Would there be anything too? Does this get

286
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,639
it's probably easier to do in the regular season than

287
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:57,720
the playoffs. Would you ever consider maybe throwing the kitchen

288
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,720
sink of alternatives on the court without Shaye where order

289
00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,720
to play home Grin and Hartenstein and jayle On Williams

290
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,440
when she is on the bench forever long it ends

291
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,120
up being just to kind of well in fury overload

292
00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:11,559
inferior lineups of the other team. Or is it no,

293
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:13,440
you can't do that, like you could like, that's not

294
00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:15,360
that's not an approach you should take. And maybe it

295
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,879
would speak to a flaw of the roster to where Well,

296
00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:19,279
if you think you need all three of those guys

297
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,519
on the court without Shay, that's a problem.

298
00:14:21,799 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I did look up. I wanted

299
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:27,159
to know what. I didn't assume there'd be much. And

300
00:14:27,159 --> 00:14:30,759
there's like three possessions. I think of both bigs of

301
00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:36,759
Hartenstein and Jada without SGA, and it's like, Okay, that's useless,

302
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:38,480
we can't learn anything from that.

303
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 1: Well, hold on, those are three whole possessions.

304
00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember what. I think. The numbers were

305
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,000
very good, so it probably means like they hit a

306
00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:48,080
three on two of them or something, and like the

307
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,120
other team turned it over once and it's like, oh,

308
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,320
they're plus one thousand per hundred. That's pretty good. So

309
00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:58,440
I think that gets into I think, yes, short answer, yeah,

310
00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:01,320
you gotta just do what you can to get the

311
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,799
best possible lineups on the floor when SGA is not

312
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,120
out there. But I think that gets us into like, a,

313
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,840
this is me trying to absolve Jadob of some of

314
00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:15,039
the blame here, Like could it also just be the

315
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,600
case that, in addition to him not just demonstrably not

316
00:15:19,759 --> 00:15:22,480
being great as a first option, you can't even say

317
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,519
he's been good is it that plus like, well, I mean,

318
00:15:27,559 --> 00:15:29,480
if you got I don't know whoever else you have

319
00:15:29,559 --> 00:15:32,519
out there Isaiah, Joe and Wiggins and and Dort or

320
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:34,919
what whoever else spends time on the floor. Like all

321
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,559
those guys for the most part, Wiggins, I guess is

322
00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:40,360
a little bit of an exception, are really dependent scorers

323
00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:44,720
and like a defense can not relax. But like it's

324
00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:47,639
different than if there was like who's the secondary creator

325
00:15:47,879 --> 00:15:50,200
when when SGA is off the floor like that, it's

326
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,559
like it's rough. It falls to a guy that you

327
00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:57,080
know either is out there because he plays defense or

328
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,159
is like eighth, ninth, tenth in the rotation. That seems

329
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,600
to be some of it, So I you know what

330
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:05,399
I mean. So I think like if you did just

331
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,039
say when SJ is off, we got to have like

332
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,960
our other four best offensive players out there. It's not

333
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,159
the craziest solution.

334
00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I hate to because JDub is still

335
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,600
his career is still so young. I don't want to

336
00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:23,559
gravitate immediately towards oh he's not number one option material,

337
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:26,720
but this might just prove that. Okay, well, if he's

338
00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:30,200
going to be that, it's clear that he's not that yet,

339
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,360
and that's fair. He's he just isn't right now, and

340
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,000
that's I think the biggest difference I see is he

341
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:42,120
struggles with his decision making when he's commanding that much

342
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:44,519
extra defensive attention. I think it's most evident. You could

343
00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:46,720
see it and maybe the types of three c's taking

344
00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:49,600
as I throw my phones everywhere, But I really think

345
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,159
it's more evident when you look at like what happens

346
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,200
inside the arc with him, Like his two point percentage

347
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,200
basically declines by ten points when Shay's off the court,

348
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,799
and so like the gravity that Shay has, I'm then

349
00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:01,679
wondering if I think anyone could be dependent on this

350
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,799
to an extent unless you're a top five player in

351
00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:05,680
the Like if that's your criticism of Jay Dubb and

352
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,279
you're offended by it, if that's our criticism, I don't

353
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:10,759
know what to tell you. Like Shay has so much gravity,

354
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,000
he's so talented, that doesn't matter, like does the thunder have.

355
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,720
I'm not trying to absolve Jayn Williams here either, but

356
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,480
like when you're looking at those lineups and fleshing them out,

357
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:23,960
is there enough supplementary gravity to where Ja Dubb is like, well,

358
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,359
you don't know this defense doesn't feel comfortable having like

359
00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:30,359
three or four sets of eyes on him at any

360
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,720
given point. And I think Chet changes that materially. But

361
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:37,960
if you're not gonna play him and Isaiah Hartenstein together

362
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,960
during those minutes, which again there's no samples, there's barely

363
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,359
any sample size there, and they haven't Chet hasn't been

364
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,240
healthy enough or Isaiah hart and Stein for that matter,

365
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,880
to there be a sample size. How much of a

366
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,039
difference is that? Really? Then, like going from Chet make

367
00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:52,480
it I want to be clear, Chet's a better player

368
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,279
than Isaiah Hartenstein, but offensively when you look at what

369
00:17:55,319 --> 00:17:58,640
Hartenstein can do as a screener on the interior as

370
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,480
a passer, like the gap. Offensively, if you're just going

371
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,920
from one to the other, how much are you adding

372
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,079
to those thunder units without Shay?

373
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Hartenstein Hartenstigin can like hub is like

374
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,000
you're running everything through him. But I do think Hartenstein

375
00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:18,519
really can be It's the pick and roll. He short

376
00:18:18,599 --> 00:18:21,039
rolls and then he makes the decision like that's We've

377
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:23,319
seen that work pretty well. So that's one way. I

378
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,759
think the other thing is like this isn't solving it.

379
00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:29,400
But it's almost like masking the problem enough to get

380
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,799
away with it, which is that when Chet is in

381
00:18:31,839 --> 00:18:35,079
the game, the thunder are just they're better at getting

382
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:36,799
to the room. Like go figure you have a five

383
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:38,680
that pulls the center out like that works and they

384
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,279
get out and transition more. That's partly because he's just

385
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,920
such a disruptive defender and he's blocking shots and he's

386
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,279
forcing like ugly misses that trigger more uptempo play if

387
00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:51,519
you can. I mean, it's the kind of work around

388
00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:53,400
we talk about a lot where it's like just make

389
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,880
transition happen more often and like just really space basic stuff,

390
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,960
Like it doesn't have to be Jada needs to like

391
00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:03,079
ascend as a pick and roll maestro or become an

392
00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:06,880
isolation monster. It's like you can just create situations that

393
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,920
are better for you know, high expected value possessions. And

394
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,799
that has less to do with Jada maybe than than

395
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,359
you would think. Like I think probably the most likely

396
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,319
solution is you using Chet and other players, you just

397
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,799
like make the tempo different and that gets you enough

398
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:27,960
transition chances to you know, not be one hundred and

399
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,359
seven points per hundred, Like maybe you're at one twelve, one, thirteen.

400
00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:35,119
You lose the minutes without Shay by a couple points

401
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,160
instead of you know, six seven, And that could just

402
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,759
be the difference between winning and losing.

403
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:41,759
Speaker 1: I was, And that actually is a nice segment to

404
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:45,240
my question on this is how much does even focusing

405
00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:48,440
on this matter when in the postseason? And if you

406
00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:52,039
use last year as the analogue, through the ten games,

407
00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:54,440
they played ten postseason games last year, right, I think

408
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,640
it was Shaye was off the court for like eighty minutes, right,

409
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,119
So he's going to play forty minutes a game, and

410
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:02,519
so you're talking about eight minutes a game, and I

411
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:05,160
know those can swing. I think that's enough. We've seen

412
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,000
it with Joel Lebid and Philly to where if you're

413
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,119
that reliant on one person for offense, it can swing

414
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,839
an entire series. But when you're this good on defense, like,

415
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,720
how much does what we're talking about actually matter? And

416
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,759
this is with the caveat there's a ton of noise

417
00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,079
in there. These Thunder actually a plus seven overall in

418
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,480
the playoffs without Shay on the court last year.

419
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,039
Speaker 2: Right, And yet the narrative was just like right, like

420
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:31,599
because Jalen had a bad like individual postseason, so it's like, yeah, no,

421
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,599
And I think the more we talk about it, the

422
00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:35,640
more I'm interested in, like how did teams defend the

423
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,480
thunder like with sga on, Like what is it just

424
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:41,680
gonna be two on the ball every single time and

425
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,440
he's just daring somebody else to do something? And what

426
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,440
does that look like? It'd be fascinating to see.

427
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,039
Speaker 1: I honestly, I still think that might be the way

428
00:20:49,079 --> 00:20:52,480
to go at them, because don't you seem doesn't it

429
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,400
seem like okay SE's other players and I mean Shae

430
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,519
can be a part of this too, but he's the

431
00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:58,799
one drawing all these players of the ball, Like they

432
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,200
have this basically anyone if they roll out there, they

433
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,680
have pristine spacing. But like their players are so conditioned

434
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,079
to like drive, like they get dry field where I've

435
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,759
kind of seen it with the Knicks or Karl Anthony

436
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:12,000
Town specifically, They're just not going to generate a ton

437
00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:15,000
of above the break three point attempts because they have

438
00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,200
so much space and they're going to be conditioned to attack.

439
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,680
And I'm wondering if if you're a defense, like having

440
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,880
someone other than Shay get downhill is probably would you

441
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,000
view that as more of a victory than getting them

442
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:28,960
to settle for like a catch and shoot three pointer.

443
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely, because that's what you don't have when

444
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,000
SGA is not in control of the ball. Like if

445
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,920
you can get any kind of like, uh, I don't

446
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,960
know a facsimile of what he does, so well, then

447
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,079
you're in good shape.

448
00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: So that might be something much But I think is

449
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,519
that Do you think that's the right way to defend

450
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:48,799
him or do you think it's different. I just think

451
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:52,000
if I beat you, that's what.

452
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: Happens, exactly. I just want the ball anybody else If

453
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,079
we lose because SGA like lights us up and gets

454
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,000
the line fifteen times, you don't want to lose it

455
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:04,359
that way because that's the way everyone predicts you're gonna lose. Like,

456
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,519
I think you'd rather see Williams have a couple forty

457
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:09,759
point games or something, because it's just like, well, we

458
00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:12,160
know SGA is gonna light us up if we're not careful.

459
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,519
Like the other thing is an if of your proposition.

460
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: Let's move on here. It is my turn, and I'm

461
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,640
gonna bring up the knicks. But I'm also kind of

462
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,480
like it's my question of can anybody in the East

463
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,200
beat the Cavs or the Celtics like or is this

464
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:29,880
just a two team race in the East. And I

465
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,319
think I'm focusing on the Knicks because it does feel

466
00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:35,519
like they should have the best chance when you look

467
00:22:35,559 --> 00:22:40,000
at their vitals and if you zoom out and just say, okay,

468
00:22:40,079 --> 00:22:42,599
they are still in the bottom ten of points allowed

469
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,400
per possession when they face a top twenty offense. So

470
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,240
again not top ten a top twenty offense. But Mitchell

471
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:52,319
Robinson hasn't played and they expect him to return by

472
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,200
the end of this month. We've heard that before. But again,

473
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,279
how much does that matter? Because one, I think comes

474
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:04,000
down to two elements, how much are he actually gonna play? Well,

475
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:06,119
I guess three, how much he actually gonna play? What

476
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,559
does he look like? But then how important is he

477
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:14,000
in these matchups, specifically against Cleveland and Boston Because against Cleveland,

478
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:16,960
I see it they they're not like a great rebounding

479
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,160
team despite having Mobile and Allen on the floor. A

480
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,359
bunch together Robinson can certainly do that can punish them.

481
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,440
There gonna give you size. I think for the way

482
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,759
that the Cavs play offense this year, he's probably worse

483
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,039
suited to stay on the court just because of their

484
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:32,160
off ball movement. But just like we've seen what he

485
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,440
can do defensively against them in the past as well.

486
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:39,759
But like against Boston, am I out of my mind

487
00:23:39,799 --> 00:23:42,960
to say that I don't really think that Mitchell Robinson

488
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,839
matters or at least playing him next to Karl Anthony

489
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,480
Towns is never gonna be the answer to me based

490
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:51,680
off how Boston is built, and then just what you're

491
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,279
giving up offensively, And then if you want to say

492
00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:56,799
he's gonna matter against Boston, I'm wondering, well, is that

493
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:59,200
because Karl Anthony Towns, like that's not a matchup he

494
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,839
can play thirty five plus minutes, in which case now

495
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,480
you've opened up a whole different can of worms that

496
00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:05,319
we need to discuss.

497
00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: So this is also one of mine, not exactly what

498
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,039
you're asking, but basically the cat Mitchell Robinson, like how

499
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,400
much does it really matter? Is actually what I have

500
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,039
in my notes because I've been stuck on that all

501
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:21,319
year because just the Robinson absence is like the one okay,

502
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,359
like that could mean something for this next team. That's otherwise,

503
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,079
like we get it, they're five guys play a zillion minutes.

504
00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:30,359
We like a couple of reserves, and if they have

505
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,279
an issue, it's interior defense and cat being the last

506
00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:35,359
line and on and not. Like this has been a

507
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,440
pretty well understood team and strengths and weaknesses in the

508
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,839
whole package. So a couple numbers that, like you can

509
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,559
tell me if this makes you feel better or worse,

510
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,480
So I fil Robinson has not played all year. Basically,

511
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,759
opponents rim attempt frequency and accuracy is like unchanged year

512
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:56,039
over year compared to last year in this year, So

513
00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,519
like the Knicks profile in terms of rim protection, they

514
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:02,440
last year thirty four point one percent opponent rim and

515
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:05,200
teen frequency this year thirty five point five, so a

516
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000
little a little more frequent, not a big deal. Accuracy

517
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:10,759
was sixty four point eight percent allowed last year, sixty

518
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:13,279
three point eight this year. So it's like, oh, Robinson's

519
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:15,279
gonna come in. I'm not saying you or I ever

520
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:18,680
said this, because this the rim protection aspect of Robinson's

521
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,720
game has always been a little overblown, Like that's not

522
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,279
like the number one thing he's done. He's a big body,

523
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:25,400
he can, he's athletic, like you know he's got He's

524
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,799
had super high block rates in the past, all that stuff,

525
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:31,279
but that's not that's not really where he's gonna help. So, like,

526
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:34,960
if you're looking for Robinson to suddenly make it, so

527
00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:37,680
oh the like this a no fly zone around the

528
00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,799
rim because Robinson's back, the Knicks are a different defense,

529
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:44,559
Like that isn't gonna be the number say that is

530
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:47,599
not going to be What changes. What I think does

531
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,920
change is just the Knicks were first and second in

532
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,559
offensive rebound rate the last two years. This year their ninth.

533
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,000
Still good, but it's like they were kind of it

534
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:58,839
was a superpower the last couple of years, which would

535
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,799
there was all those stats we talked about all the

536
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:03,799
time about how like all the threes they generate specifically

537
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,240
off those offensive boards and how much that propped up

538
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:09,079
the offense that had like a shitty effective field goal percentage,

539
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,759
But oh my god, they get all these like super

540
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,839
high value second chance looks. So he will affect that,

541
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,720
and I guess like this will be less interesting. I

542
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,400
agree he matters, Robinson does against the Calves. I just

543
00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:26,599
don't understand how he's like a plus other than just

544
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,759
pure depth. If Kat gets in foul trouble against Boston

545
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,279
because of the way, you know, Boston's bigs aren't bigs.

546
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,319
Every guy they put out there that can defend Biggs

547
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,359
will shoot threes and will be on the perimeter. And

548
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,839
Robinson is just like you can't. I mean, Cat's gonna

549
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,680
have enough trouble like chasing Porzingis or Horford or even

550
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:48,799
like Xavier Tilman's gonna shoot threes. If you have both

551
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:51,359
bigs out there, It's like, so, I guess the Celtics

552
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,000
will just score a thousand points in the paint because

553
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,240
they just won't be able to dribble contain, you know,

554
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,920
like I don't. I don't know how it helps against

555
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,559
Boston at all.

556
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: No, and it'd be different. And if like I guess

557
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,599
you got to say that Kat was more like Evan

558
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,799
Mobley or Jared Allen to where if you really want

559
00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:09,480
to and I know you're saying that Mitchell Robinson's primary

560
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:12,759
strength isn't necessarily like shot deterrence at the rim, but

561
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:15,519
like if you're able to park him as the low man,

562
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,119
and then like you have someone like Karl Anthony Towns

563
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,519
who can and look, Town's probably might be better suited

564
00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,400
just being more aggressive, but that doesn't mean he's gonna

565
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,480
be good at it, especially against that team. So if

566
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:28,119
you had the synergy or the type of makeup that

567
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,720
Cleveland's two bigsdue, I could kind of see how it

568
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,000
would help against Boston, And like I said, I can

569
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:35,759
see how it will help against Cleveland. You do have

570
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:38,880
to ask, now, are the second chance opportunities? Is the

571
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,519
defense of rebounding that's not even really a problem for

572
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,039
you right now on most nights, Like is that enough

573
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:46,039
of value ed to where you just get less dynamic

574
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:48,519
on offense? Because it's not just I mean, it is

575
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,519
just Mitchell Robinson can't space the floor, but his hands

576
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:54,000
are terrible. It's like you can't even if he's gonna catch,

577
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:56,839
you can't count on him to one actually control it

578
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,880
and then two decision make outside of being able unless

579
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,960
he's right at the hoop to do something there. And

580
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,160
I look, I'm I want to be open to the

581
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,119
idea that all right, well it's just another body that

582
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,599
can soak up minutes and maybe you'll alleviate the pressure

583
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,720
on Look the other night against Chicago where the Knicks

584
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,480
they were banged up. But it's just like Jalen Brunton

585
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:18,039
logged under forty minutes in an overtime game, and I

586
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,319
was shocked, like everybody else is, like, you're over forty

587
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,200
and it's people are tired of us. Not even to us.

588
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,200
We've probably focused on it less, but like they don't

589
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,920
want to talk about the nixt minutes and the injuries.

590
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,279
But when you see things crop up like Josh Hart

591
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:36,599
runners knee management like that, that's a used thing. And

592
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,880
so just having another body to alleviate, like if Heart

593
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,079
and Adenobi when they're helpy can play a fewer minutes

594
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,400
for the rest of the regular season. I just don't

595
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,960
know how much it matters in the aggregate. And so

596
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:49,559
it does circle back to let me ask one of

597
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:52,640
two questions, and let's have let's have a brutally honest

598
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:57,759
answer to this. Are the Knicks legitimate championship contenders this season?

599
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,759
Speaker 2: I think I have to say, well, I guess what

600
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,279
do you mean by contender?

601
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: Like can I just give you? Can I give you

602
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:10,160
the answer? It's just no, Right, the answer is no,

603
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,359
and we shouldn't be afraid to say it, because go ahead. No.

604
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, like, I don't think you

605
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,640
can make a credible argument that they're on the level

606
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:25,480
of Cleveland or Boston and throwing the thunder in the West, Like,

607
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:28,759
I think those are your three obviously, and then the

608
00:29:28,839 --> 00:29:31,720
Knicks are in the mix with a half dozen other

609
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:33,559
teams that I'd kind of put in the same tier

610
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,319
below that. So I guess, like, if that top three

611
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,720
are your true actual contenders, like they win the title,

612
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:41,680
you just say like, yeah, I get it. The Knicks

613
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,519
are not in that group, So I guess I think, yeah,

614
00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:47,240
I just have talked myself into like definitively saying they're

615
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,039
not If that's your contender class, they're not in it.

616
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,759
Speaker 1: And look, I think when you're built the way they

617
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:55,519
didn't say, they're really good and the offense is just

618
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,599
even when the offense is off, it's on. But they're

619
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,240
not a deep team. And for as dynamic as they

620
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,839
seem on the wings, like they're just not able to

621
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:08,200
be dynamic enough on the defensive end because their two

622
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,359
most important players are players that other teams will go

623
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,319
at and I think, like one of them, you're gonna

624
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:17,920
come away for most games and say, fuck one of

625
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,519
them was really bad or that was the weak point.

626
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:24,000
And I think against Boston, specifically Karl Anthony Towns is

627
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,799
the bigger just based off what we've seen so far

628
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,240
this season. Now, I think every game they have left

629
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,920
against Boston, against Cleveland, they've already played OKAC twice. It's

630
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,039
gonna be used as a barometer as we record this.

631
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:37,519
They're playing the Cavs on Friday night. That's not gonna

632
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:39,200
be a good game to measure. The Knicks are banged up,

633
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,960
They're coming off the second night of a back to back.

634
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,480
But like these games matter as a litmus test, and

635
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,480
for the Knicks more so, I think it's gonna be

636
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,160
about what, within reason, Ken or should they do after

637
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,680
this season to get on the level of a Cleveland

638
00:30:52,759 --> 00:30:55,079
or Boston because they don't have I mean, they are

639
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,960
the betting favorites to land Giannas attenta Kupo. Somehow did

640
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,480
you see.

641
00:30:58,279 --> 00:30:59,799
Speaker 2: This beyond insane?

642
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: With what Well, remember we almost recorded when we saw

643
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,680
the rumor that league executives thought the Nicks acquire Kronothy

644
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,799
Towns to make it easier to trade for Giannis at Tentakompo. Yeah,

645
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:14,000
I have no idea through how that's possible. Is it? Well,

646
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,960
Towns is matching salary or it's Towns is such a

647
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,039
good fit. Next to Giannis, I just my whole thing

648
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,160
is they don't have a ton of stuff they could do.

649
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,079
But like the information on specifically look towns in Ariel

650
00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:29,000
huck PORTI the sample size is like thirty something possessions.

651
00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:31,720
They've killed it now. Teams are not hitting threes or

652
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:34,480
shots at the rim, but like, maybe there's something to

653
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:37,720
replicate there and perhaps the dual bigs have a bigger

654
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,079
impact than we're crediting right now. But I think it's

655
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:43,640
time to acknowledge this Nicks team is really good. And

656
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,400
if you want to say that we're shrinking the contender

657
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,480
window too much, but we have the Thunder, the Calves

658
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,240
and the Celtics. If I were to throw out other

659
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,400
teams in the West, like I would be less surprised.

660
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,039
And tell me if you agree if the Nuggets won the.

661
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: Title, Uh no, I agree. I think the Nuggets are higher,

662
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,200
are closer to the top tier than the Knicks are.

663
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: And I think it gets spicier when you say, would

664
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,000
you be more or less surprised if the Grizzlies, let's say,

665
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,880
made the finals.

666
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:11,799
Speaker 2: I think it a similarly surprised, I guess because maybe

667
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,799
maybe less.

668
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: If it shouldn't be that much of a debate if

669
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,079
the Knicks are a contender, because they are right, and

670
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,039
so what I would then ask you to wrap this up,

671
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,640
are the Knicks in so far as there is a

672
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,759
third threat to come out of the East, is it

673
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:29,000
still the Knicks? Like does that need to be the

674
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,200
default pick? Or do you look at some of these

675
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,960
other teams? And I would say specifically, at this point,

676
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,480
Giannish just exists. And so there's Milwaukee, and then I mean,

677
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,400
like Indiana, I said this, I don't think it was

678
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,079
a podcast that you and I died together at this rate,

679
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:44,880
and like, I'm not this isn't even just I watched

680
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,279
the Grizzlies Pacers game too on Thursday. Uh, this isn't

681
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:50,039
me just saying it off that I said it before.

682
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:52,759
The way the Pacers are built and being able to

683
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,759
push different buttons that the Knicks can't, I think I

684
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:58,200
trust them in a playoff series more than I trust

685
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,359
the Knicks against the the Celtics of the Cats. And

686
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,400
that might be a take that age as poorly, but

687
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,799
then that might say more about the separation between Boston

688
00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:08,440
Cleveland than everybody else in the East.

689
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: I would say it's harder than I am comfortable with

690
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,799
to say the Knicks are definitely better than the Pacers,

691
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:18,359
because I mean, certainly lately the Pacers are like, Okay, well,

692
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,680
remember earlier in the season, we're like, oh my god,

693
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:24,000
this is like a failed like soft rebuild. That's like

694
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,039
they're not going to be any good. They're like fifteen.

695
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:28,599
I think the one fifteen to twenty is the stat

696
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,319
I just thought like that. Okay, so that's I think

697
00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:34,359
I like the Knicks a little better than the Pacers.

698
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,759
But so yeah, I guess I would say I still

699
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:43,039
would put the Knicks third, but yeah, Milwaukee, Indiana, if

700
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440
Orlando could shoot or had been healthy all year, that

701
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:48,160
might be an interesting thing. Like I don't know how

702
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,519
far down you want to go, but but yeah, I

703
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:52,960
think I think you're right. If the purpose here was

704
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,519
to establish the Knicks are not a true blue contender,

705
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:56,519
I think we've succeeded.

706
00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:59,559
Speaker 1: I just and just very quickly. And why I've con

707
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,359
I would say I like the Pacers mores. I think

708
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:07,160
that they've shown a more sustainable defensive peak than the Knicks,

709
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:09,679
like during this stretcher since January one, so we're talking

710
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,559
about twenty games, they're just eighth in points laub per possession.

711
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,679
That is just not the Knicks have not had this season,

712
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,920
to the best my knowledge, a twenty game stretch where

713
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,159
they have been in the top eight of point slap

714
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:20,719
per possession.

715
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,199
Speaker 2: And so yeah, but tam that season opener where they

716
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,679
gave up like two hundred points, that's still skewing the Look.

717
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: Honestly, they're eight trigger, They're eighteenth in point slap per

718
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,360
possession against top ten offenses, and that's with that opening

719
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,400
night against Boston filtered in and so like that's a win, yes,

720
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,559
but and I look, anyone who was as fucks knows

721
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,239
that I want to be wrong about this, but I

722
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,519
just feel like that I don't know if it's because

723
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,119
we're like the East is the East, and so we're

724
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,039
just the Knicks or third, and we're penciling like they're

725
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:51,079
comfortably third, so we're just gonna pencil them in there.

726
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,360
I don't think people are being critical enough of the

727
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,480
season because they're a really good team. And I mean

728
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:57,440
critical in the sense of I don't know what they

729
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,159
were supposed to fix, they don't have the tools to

730
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,320
fix it at the deadline, but just kind of like

731
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,840
being okay, with this is a fine season. But when

732
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,920
you go all in to the extent that the Knicks did,

733
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,360
I don't care that you're slated to face Boston in

734
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,679
the second round, Like if you just get bounced in

735
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,840
the second and if it's not close, like that is

736
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,039
what the that needs to be the success. I won't

737
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,360
kill the Knicks if they lose in the second round,

738
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,519
which I think is what's gonna most likely happen. If

739
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:23,000
the I mean they're gonna be third, it's gonna set

740
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,559
them up to play Boston in round two and they're

741
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:26,679
gonna lose. That's what I would predict. If you go

742
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,840
down in like four or five games, you need, like

743
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,639
after what you did over the past year plus, like

744
00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:36,960
in terms of trading and remaking the roster. I'm not

745
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,639
gonna call for them to trade everybody and blow it

746
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:40,760
up like no, that that fucking matters. And it's a

747
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,239
conversation that I'll need to be had. Look, I'm getting squeaky,

748
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,440
So you did you triggered me.

749
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: Let's go from the contender to the championship favorite. I

750
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,159
don't know if you heard, but the Warriors will win

751
00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:51,960
the championship.

752
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: What do you like?

753
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: Okay, obviously that's when Draymond said that and doubled down

754
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,320
on it, and it was in front of us San

755
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,079
Francisco crowd, and like, you know that he'll.

756
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: He he also thinks that the league teams only shoot

757
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,039
threes or some ship. So I'm watching Draymond's like a.

758
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,519
Speaker 2: Man, like the reputation is one of the smartest players

759
00:36:14,559 --> 00:36:19,719
ever is gonna anyway, So before we get into the

760
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,079
merits of it, I would just point out that in

761
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:26,679
the in the recent past, the war like Kerr and

762
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,480
even Steph and a lot of people associated with the

763
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:35,239
team have said like not you know, I'm paraphrasing, but

764
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,159
haven't essentially like admitted when they don't have it like

765
00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:41,440
what they They kind of have been pretty forthright when

766
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,840
they've had teams that are just like, you know, we're

767
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:47,679
we're not at the level that we used to be

768
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,360
or we're not in that top level. I think they

769
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,840
have admitted that fairly readily in the past. It's you know,

770
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,280
over the past few seasons. So like, I do think

771
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,840
despite it being objectively wild that Draymond said that, it

772
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,280
to me indicates like they actually might like collectively think

773
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,239
something close to that as a team with Jimmy Butler

774
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,000
on board, we don't need to get into like how

775
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:14,159
valid that is, because I don't. I mean, I just

776
00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:17,360
think even you can't. You can't say that three games

777
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,760
into the guys time with the team and one player

778
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,599
just can't be that impactful with all the problems the

779
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:25,920
Warriors have. But I think we do need to, like,

780
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,519
using the small sample we've had so far, There'll be

781
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,400
another game played by the time you hear this, and

782
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,119
it'll they're playing the Kings on Friday. Like, from what

783
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:40,800
you've seen, would you agree that Jimmy Butler, whatever he makes,

784
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,679
whatever he does to lift the overall ceiling, like really

785
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,880
really clearly addresses like a couple of the biggest problems

786
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,519
that this team has in a way that like does,

787
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:55,599
in fact, like kind of change things from a like

788
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,119
this team is a five hundred team to oh, ok,

789
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:04,199
they could win around and like get interesting beyond that potentially,

790
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,639
Is that is that overblowing it?

791
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: No, because you're talking to the first of all, you're

792
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,480
talking to the wrong person about this. I just wrote

793
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,599
about how I think the Warriors are gonna finish in

794
00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,840
the top six for the regular season, and I think

795
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,519
I would have to double check, but like the odds

796
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:22,119
of that are just not in their favor because they have,

797
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:25,840
as we're recording this, four losses to make up and

798
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,079
like inside of thirty games to go, that's really hard

799
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,119
to do. But what you just said, I think what

800
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:34,079
the Jimmy Butler trade, if we had to kind of

801
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,960
boil it down to a simplified take, did more than anything.

802
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,480
It gave the Warriors actual lightning in a bottle potential.

803
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:42,880
Now because of the things that he can potentially address,

804
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,800
which is another from scratch sort of creator. They have

805
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,920
never well, I'll say during this Steph era, they have

806
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:51,079
never had a perimeter player that can put pressure on

807
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:54,159
the rim and generate free throws like he can. You've

808
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:57,159
already mentioned the sample size is very small. The offense

809
00:38:57,199 --> 00:38:59,400
has been really good when he plays without Steph Grant,

810
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,840
that's like, that's a big fucking deal. And so if

811
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,400
you put the Warriors, let's say they get out of

812
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,519
the play If you put the Warriors in a playoff series,

813
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:11,400
these are the teams I'm prepared to guarantee that they

814
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,880
will not beat the Thunder And that's it. Yeah, And

815
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,639
like I would still have the Nuggets ahead of them.

816
00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:20,400
I want to make that clear. But if you're getting

817
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,159
into like in a playoff series, I'm gonna need to

818
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:25,440
see a hell of a lot more from a Houston,

819
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,960
from a Memphis, from the Lakers to say like no, Like,

820
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,559
they're definitely better equipped to beat the Thunder or the

821
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,840
Nuggets than the Warriors might be in a vacuum. So

822
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:37,880
I don't think I would argue that you're not Warriors

823
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:38,440
pilled enough.

824
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,199
Speaker 2: Oh boy, is that what we're doing?

825
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: Well?

826
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,199
Speaker 2: So yeah, I do think the one of the most

827
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,360
interesting aspects of the storyline I'm watching here, which I

828
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,199
should have been more explicit about, is like how good

829
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,480
is this Warriors team down the stretch like post edition,

830
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:54,880
Like I think the Butler it was almost a rhetorical

831
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,599
ask of you, like, yeah, Butler getting to the line.

832
00:39:57,679 --> 00:40:00,679
And actually also like curbing turnovers just because like when

833
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,280
he has the ball, things get simplified. It's like he's

834
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,000
gonna make the right pass. He doesn't swing for home

835
00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:09,119
runs very much, which everybody else that's on the ball

836
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:11,840
for the Warriors tends to do. So you cut the turnovers,

837
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:15,039
you slow the game down, You make the rest for

838
00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:18,000
Steph actually extend because you're shooting free throws all the

839
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:20,119
time if Butler's on the floor and Steph is not,

840
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,079
so like it counts double. Like there are real like

841
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,360
knock on effects of like the couple things that he

842
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,599
does very very well in addition to the whole Like,

843
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,559
oh shit, he might just be the best player in

844
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:33,159
a playoff series regardless of who's on the other side.

845
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,519
Like that's actually still possible. What I'm actually most interested

846
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:42,079
in now is like, so, what is the best lineup

847
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,519
for this team against the best opponents, Like it's it's

848
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,199
just not gonna include spacing. And how big of a

849
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,119
deal is that? Because you're gonna reintroduce Jonathan Cominga pretty soon,

850
00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:55,159
and you would assume whether he starts or not, if

851
00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:59,400
he's not in a closing lineup. Everybody's upset include him ownership,

852
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,760
Like everybody's pissed off if Kaminga is not right back

853
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:02,599
out there, lad.

854
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,639
Speaker 1: Inject for a second. Just given the trajectory of how

855
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,440
things have gone with Kaminga and Golden State, isn't that

856
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,159
almost what you expect to have, Like there's all another

857
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:14,239
shoe that's dropping, or like there's highs and lows and

858
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,920
there's never like an in between.

859
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's insane, it's it's the biggest yo yo

860
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:25,000
effect ever. I just like my opinion, I think you

861
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:27,760
have to at least give it a real extended look

862
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:33,719
over these last thirty or so games with Steph Butler, Kaminga, Draymond,

863
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,239
I guess Pajemski or Moody, I don't know who you're like.

864
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,159
I think Buddy Heel has kind of played himself out

865
00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:42,760
even though, like God, they need like a gravity kind

866
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,039
of type of shooter and he just hasn't been it.

867
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,840
I think you have to really give that a long

868
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,000
look and see how viable the offense is because you

869
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:56,320
want to be switchable and athletic and have more rim pressure,

870
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,280
which Kaminga provides in addition to Butler and dre On,

871
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,880
Like those three guys can really kind of give you

872
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,280
some real variety on both ends. I think I think

873
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,480
you just you're obligated to give that as long of

874
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,760
a look as you possibly can. Whether they'll do that

875
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,000
or not hard to say, because, like you pointed out,

876
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:18,800
like sometimes they just don't do it. I think I

877
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,840
really think that Kaminga can be an additive player, but man,

878
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,559
we've seen him just go into the tank when he

879
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,039
isn't you know, getting big time on ball reps in

880
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:32,679
a major role, and with Butler there, it's way harder

881
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,280
for him to be in that position. And like, that's

882
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,719
a knock that that matters to him and that affects

883
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,039
how he plays. But it is just reality. So I'll

884
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:43,880
be watching, like, well, what version of Kaminga from a

885
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,559
motivational like and aggressiveness and confidence standpoint is going to

886
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:49,440
show up? And then how healthy is he? This is

887
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,360
a really long layoff for an ankle injury, and how

888
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,000
much rope do the Warriors give this? You know, what

889
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:58,400
should I think be their most dangerous lineup?

890
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,039
Speaker 1: I'm so curious to see what the integration of Kamingo,

891
00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:04,880
Like what is the offense? I know? I so we

892
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,079
know what their top four players in theory should be.

893
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,760
So who would your preferred you already mentioned, buddy, He'll

894
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,119
be like, who would your preferred default fifth guy? Beer?

895
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,800
Like what do you like? How do you play Draymond, Jimmy,

896
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,119
Butler and Kaminga together? Schematically? It's just like who is

897
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,159
the is it? Like Kaminga has to be a space

898
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,199
around Draymond and Jimmy with Steph actions right a lot

899
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,159
of the time or no, like.

900
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: What is Yeah, he does and he shot forty percent

901
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,679
from three in like the fifteen ish fifteen or twenty

902
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:34,679
games prior to injury, like he was making threes. We

903
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,519
always talk about though, like every defense is gonna be

904
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:39,800
like thank you for shooting that still, like he's not

905
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,440
the guy that you're freaking out about, you know, being.

906
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,079
Speaker 1: The cop to preseason shooting that was something else.

907
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, I I don't I don't know what that's

908
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,480
gonna look like. He will have the space, uh and

909
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,199
and be opportunistic in attacking closeouts and and honestly, like

910
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,360
you're not putting your best, most athletic defender on him.

911
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,079
So that's a plus because that guy's gonna have to

912
00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:04,159
guard Butler now, and your your quickest, you know, sharpest

913
00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:07,159
wing is gonna be on steph like, so there will

914
00:44:07,159 --> 00:44:09,199
be opportunities. I think the fifth guy right now, I

915
00:44:09,199 --> 00:44:12,519
think Pajemsy's playing the best. I think Moody's pretty close.

916
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:16,519
But if Pajemski can make threes, then he gives you

917
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,320
another guy that will make plays too, which still matters.

918
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960
So it'll be fluid. Unfortunately, it would be nice if

919
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,320
Pajemski just had like a stranglehold on it, but he

920
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,320
just doesn't. And I think Moody can be the better

921
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,239
guy on some nights, but I don't know, unless I'm

922
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,800
just grossly overlooking somebody, I'm not really thinking that hard

923
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,760
about anybody else for that at that last spot, unless

924
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,840
he'll gets like you know, first fifteen games hot, which

925
00:44:43,199 --> 00:44:45,079
feels like the exception to the rule now.

926
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:48,679
Speaker 1: Well also is sort of what you've laid out, so

927
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,519
it's not gonna be like their default is Draymond at

928
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:51,880
the five.

929
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:54,079
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, like you're trying to win the last

930
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:56,519
five minutes, that's who's got to be out there. Yeah,

931
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:58,599
it does seem like Quentin Post, I think, is gonna

932
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,480
get the like you're to get up three threes in

933
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:03,559
the in your first stint, and if you make one

934
00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:06,039
or two of them, you might see some second half action,

935
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:08,559
and if you don't, it's gonna be looney, and then

936
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:12,119
that exacerbates the space and crunch I mean even more.

937
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:14,880
But I think I think TJD is out of the

938
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,119
rotation just because that's he just isn't doing enough to

939
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,360
justify playing over Looney or Post. But yeah, it's I

940
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:25,159
kind of feel like it's gonna be a lot of

941
00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:27,599
looney and you're gonna look at lineups that sometimes have

942
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,559
Steph's the only guy you care about as a spacer,

943
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:32,639
and like, what happens then you know.

944
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,559
Speaker 1: My next one. So we'll go negative here for a second,

945
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,360
looking like who's not I don't want to say who

946
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,920
has more on the line, but I'm kind of looking

947
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,840
at what is the fallout from what we kind of

948
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,760
know is gonna happen this the rest of the season

949
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,000
for and like who's going to have it worse looking

950
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:53,199
into the offseason if they quote unquote fail this year

951
00:45:53,679 --> 00:46:01,039
between Dallas, Philly, Sacramento and Phoenix. And because it's I

952
00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:03,000
think you can look at Phoenix and say, Okay, they

953
00:46:03,039 --> 00:46:05,840
clearly have the hopeless, most hopeless financial and asset situation,

954
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,079
but the Kings like kind of didn't pivot into a

955
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:11,679
rebuild after moving Fox and like what the Mavericks made

956
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,320
one of the worst or most confusing trades of all time.

957
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,400
And then Philly, Okay, you can say the thing I

958
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,079
can't get to with Philly, And now I'm not saying

959
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,280
they're my pick, but just get to the plan in

960
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,159
and reasonably be healthy, Like what have you seen anything

961
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:27,559
from this team at full at even close to full

962
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:30,079
strength that makes you things like, yeah, like that's what

963
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:33,159
they need to do, because I have yet to see that,

964
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,599
Like come talk to me when the Big three is

965
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:41,000
like running opponents off the floor. So there's just I

966
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:44,400
find it fascinating because there's gonna be fallout and maybe

967
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,280
Dallas might have the like the most teflon stomach for

968
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,880
what comes next, because a Nico Harrison is clearly just

969
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,880
like that organization is dancing to the beat of a

970
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,360
different drum right now. But of those four, who would

971
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,960
you pick where it's I don't want I don't know

972
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,840
if it's saying they're gonna be under the most pressure

973
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,679
or which team is going to have like the most

974
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,119
egregious fallout from how we because this the something might

975
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:08,159
not even make the play in right now too, like

976
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,199
and ditto for the Sixers. As we're recording.

977
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,679
Speaker 2: It's funny because one of my items was like, who

978
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:15,760
are who's the next class of blow up? Blow it

979
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,559
up candidates? And it features three of the teams you mentioned,

980
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:20,519
So we have again a kind of similar thing that

981
00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:24,519
will not include who else do I have? Oh, I

982
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:26,760
have the Bucks and Pelicans on there as, but those

983
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,280
are like more they're they're a little bit different than

984
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,039
the class of teams you mentioned, but it's close enough

985
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:33,840
we can talk about it. So for the Sixers, like

986
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,840
you asked, like, what have we seen that suggests like,

987
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,039
oh there's something in there, Like what.

988
00:47:39,039 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: Have we heard?

989
00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:41,559
Speaker 2: And the answer to that is what we've heard is

990
00:47:41,639 --> 00:47:45,199
Joel Embiid what twice now in the last few weeks

991
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:49,320
saying like I'm not there and I need like I

992
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,320
won't be you know, like performance wise until I get

993
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,440
this knee fixed. Like it's so you haven't seen anything

994
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,039
on the floor, And what we're hearing is he's he's

995
00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:02,679
telling you I can't get there, and whatever hope you

996
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,679
have of the Sixers, you know, making a magical play

997
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,360
into conference finals or anything kind of run, it's all

998
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,199
dead if Embiid is this and like he just is

999
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,599
saying he will be this until it gets he gets

1000
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:20,360
his knee fixed. And like the real I'm talking about

1001
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,239
fallout is like he might be this period like you

1002
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,039
can only go, you know, fix the knee so many

1003
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:29,800
times until it's like no, no, this bad news. It

1004
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,039
is fixed, Like this is as fixed as it gets.

1005
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,119
So that's that's like the catastrophizing angle to take here,

1006
00:48:36,119 --> 00:48:41,679
but like it's it's in play, so fallout wise, like, yeah,

1007
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,480
the Sixers might really just be in a position where

1008
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:48,000
Embiid isn't going to be able to play frequently or

1009
00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:50,760
at a high level ever again, and what do you

1010
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,039
do from there? And you got Paul George on this deal,

1011
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:55,880
and yeah it's just a finger or whatever, but also

1012
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:59,800
look at his age, look at just the production. That's bad.

1013
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,039
I still just think, well, I don't know it really

1014
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:06,400
is between them and the Suns, right, because the Suns

1015
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,559
have gone all into the most extreme degree and with

1016
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:11,800
the worst results for an all in we've seen in

1017
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,199
a long time. It just feels to me like the

1018
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,880
Suns have outs that that the Sixers don't, you know

1019
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,840
what I mean? If they need to, you can trade

1020
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,039
Durant you don't want to, but you can trade Booker

1021
00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:24,880
and then you're back to sort of being a more

1022
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,599
normal team. Whereas the Sixers it's like, well, if Embiid

1023
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:31,880
has damaged goods, what are you gonna can you? Can

1024
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,400
you trade him for anything? And can you trade Paul

1025
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,360
George for anything? So I think, like, I know your

1026
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,679
question isn't like who's worse off, but it almost feels

1027
00:49:40,679 --> 00:49:41,920
like it's the Sixers, doesn't it.

1028
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: I go back and forth on that because I see

1029
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,079
what you're saying, the Sons have outs, but like they're

1030
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:53,320
out Like they're out is very specific to where they

1031
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,519
have traded away so much of their draft and like

1032
00:49:56,599 --> 00:50:00,159
swapped out so many things that unless you're getting back

1033
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:03,079
your own picks, like okay, well then what like, okay,

1034
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:05,360
you can you will get more assets if you trade

1035
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,519
Kevin Durant than if you trade Paul George or probably

1036
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:10,639
even Joelle Embiid right now. But like when you don't

1037
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,000
have any of your own picks through twenty and thirty one,

1038
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,719
unless you're getting your own picks back as part of

1039
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,440
that trade, like, what's the point? And I think with

1040
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:20,480
the Sixers, at least you look at it and say,

1041
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:23,920
Tyres Maxie is still there. They have some of their

1042
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,800
draft moving forward, They have other draft picks already moving forward.

1043
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:31,000
If the Suns move Kevin Durant, like why isn't Devin

1044
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:32,000
Booker just next?

1045
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, where are you?

1046
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: Like you can't point to the Sun and say, well,

1047
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,719
we know Devin Booker is going to be there, Because

1048
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,840
I would argue Devin Booker's on the Suns beyond next season,

1049
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:41,800
I'd probably be shocked at this point.

1050
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: Does it help at all that the obvious trade, whether

1051
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,559
you're talking about Booker or Durant, just is to Houston

1052
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,159
for and then you do get some of your picks

1053
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:53,679
back like that. I mean, I'm not saying I definitely

1054
00:50:53,679 --> 00:50:55,400
I'm asked sort of asking the question, like, oh, what

1055
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,440
if it is the Sixers that are worse off. I'm

1056
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,000
not sure. They're both in big trouble in different ways,

1057
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,079
but the Suns do have the rockets just sitting right there,

1058
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,800
needing an offensive centerpiece, and they have your picks.

1059
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: So, like you know, with the Sixers, though, isn't there

1060
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,280
more hope of this working out? And it's in the

1061
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,760
sense of maybe you get another semi healthy season from

1062
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:25,039
Joel Embiid, whereas with the Suns it feels like when

1063
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:28,119
they've been healthy, they've been worse like like that doesn't

1064
00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:30,400
really make it like it's just the setup they have.

1065
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,679
They have no outs to augment it and so you

1066
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,719
have to get out of it completely. Where's the Sixers?

1067
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,000
It's yes, joelbe might be cooked, but like we've also

1068
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,480
seen Hi miss a ton of time in the past,

1069
00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:43,760
and like this is an ideal, but maybe he's knee

1070
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,719
as another search, which, by the way, can we spend

1071
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,920
a second on that If you need to get stuff

1072
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:51,159
like why are we not getting it fixed? Then let's

1073
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,599
run it back next year and open.

1074
00:51:52,639 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: That's a whole other part of this conversation of like

1075
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,079
we've we've had discussions about whether it made sense for

1076
00:51:58,119 --> 00:52:01,400
the Sixers to tank, and and we've said, well, you know,

1077
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,800
they can only they're not gonna be able to maximize

1078
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,679
that pick enough because there's too far to fall. They

1079
00:52:05,679 --> 00:52:08,119
can't make up that ground, and the odds of that

1080
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:11,400
pick being great enough to justify a tank aren't high.

1081
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:13,519
Now it's now, it's what you're talking about of like

1082
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,880
just start the recovery clock now, as opposed to waiting,

1083
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:21,800
because maybe this way you have like a full off

1084
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,000
season and of like you're ready to go in October.

1085
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,800
The longer you wait, like you can't have this like

1086
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,119
gradual ramp up shit anymore. Like you got to be

1087
00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:34,039
ready to go in twenty five, twenty six. So I

1088
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:37,800
think I think the only move now is to call

1089
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,079
it right and just if somebody needs surgery, you get

1090
00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:43,679
it done tomorrow. And and this season is a wash

1091
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,719
and whatever happens with that pick whatever, Like that's not

1092
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:47,360
the point.

1093
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:50,119
Speaker 1: About that, and it is if you want any chance,

1094
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,559
like it's try to get Joelle and be right for

1095
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:55,119
next year. Like fuck to pick at this point.

1096
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the other thing, I think you made the

1097
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:02,679
best argument that the Suns are sort of like worse

1098
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,159
off because with the Sixers you can still say, well,

1099
00:53:06,199 --> 00:53:08,800
we haven't seen like the full realization of our vision

1100
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,360
because like, oh, Paul George miss time and MB's not

1101
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:13,920
his best or whatever. The Sons have like kind of

1102
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,880
been pretty healthy with like relatively speaking, with all three

1103
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,719
of those guys, and the team's bad and they don't

1104
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,599
have ways to fix it, and so like this was

1105
00:53:22,639 --> 00:53:25,400
the vision and it sucks like they just don't have

1106
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,679
a way to get better. They can't fall back on like, well,

1107
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,519
if this changes, next year will be It's like, no,

1108
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:34,880
this is your team, like you're just locked in.

1109
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,559
Speaker 1: And there's also eleven of at least that we isn't

1110
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:41,360
yet emanating out of Philly and maybe it will. There's

1111
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,519
like a level of dysfunction there That makes it even

1112
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:45,960
worse because the like the whole Kevin Durant trade stuff

1113
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,599
that you weren't talking to him about it and then

1114
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:50,639
he finds out about it through that way and he

1115
00:53:50,679 --> 00:53:52,599
had to turn down the trade because it sounds like

1116
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,440
it wasn't so much about the Warriors. It just he

1117
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,000
didn't want to move mid season. What were you? I

1118
00:53:57,199 --> 00:53:59,639
just what was the logic here. I'm not saying you

1119
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,360
need to work in collaboration with every player to trade them,

1120
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,760
but when it's Kevin Durant and you know Kevin Durant's

1121
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,320
track record and you know that, like he's not under

1122
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,480
contract for that much longer, what are you? What are

1123
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,079
you doing?

1124
00:54:11,639 --> 00:54:18,159
Speaker 2: And like with a one huh, I don't know accuracy

1125
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,559
rate once the Durant is like not super happy, bell

1126
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,920
gets wrung. It's never unwrung. It's all always every single

1127
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,920
time it has concluded with changing teams, every time it's happened.

1128
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,320
So like, oh, you're gonna get reports of like it's fine,

1129
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,519
and there's been some mitigation even now of how like

1130
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:37,239
he's like it wasn't about the Warriors. I just didn't

1131
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,280
want to get traded. It's like we've already the alarm

1132
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,000
has already sounded, and now it's just a when like

1133
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:46,280
he and Brian Windhorse said, like everybody under the sun

1134
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,519
expects him to be traded, even.

1135
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: For him, of all people to say that too, because

1136
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,840
he knows all this shit. And then it's like you'll

1137
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,960
talk about how he knew it before it happened. For

1138
00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:58,239
him to say it preemptively, I mean, he's gone. So

1139
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,239
I did just to mention them quickly. I can't bring

1140
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,400
myself to pict the Kings, even though they're like probably

1141
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,760
one of the most confusing teams in the at least internally,

1142
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,760
how they view themselves, have gone about trying to improve

1143
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,159
or position themselves. The mom's bonus is really good, and

1144
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:16,639
they have the bones of like this team will be solid.

1145
00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:20,000
I don't think that they even have a pathway to

1146
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,480
being better than that, like better than what they were

1147
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,280
with Fox at this moment. Anytime soon, I think I

1148
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,920
would have them like lowest on this list in terms

1149
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,960
of Okay, well, what's the fallout look Like? Maybe I'm

1150
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,559
wrong there because Dallas, I'm just like, are we just

1151
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:36,000
sure Kyrie wants to sign up for all this again?

1152
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:38,239
And if he decides to leave or even gets wandering eyes,

1153
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,119
like what does that mean for like Anthony Davis injured

1154
00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:44,119
right now, but like him having to be the subject

1155
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:46,800
of I know the fans haven't attacked Anthony Davis personally,

1156
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,639
I want to make that clear, but like the rhetoric

1157
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,000
surrounding that trade is always be like you were fucking

1158
00:55:52,119 --> 00:55:55,719
stupid for trading Luka danchis fr Anthony Davis. There has

1159
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,079
to be a part of him. They'll pay him, they'll

1160
00:55:58,119 --> 00:56:00,719
extend him. Maybe that money heals all, but it doesn't

1161
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,239
have to be a part of him. It doesn't want

1162
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,719
to be like related to that, like tethered to this

1163
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:06,199
at all.

1164
00:56:06,599 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he's he's like it's not quite guilty by association,

1165
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:13,559
but like the stain of the trade that has nothing

1166
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:15,800
to do with him is like is on him, and

1167
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,159
it's just it's just like that sucks. He's he's in

1168
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:21,880
a position where unless he just is a finals MVP

1169
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:24,440
and wins them a championship, it's like it's what's he

1170
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:26,800
gonna do that could be good enough? You know, And

1171
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:27,519
it's not his fault.

1172
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: He didn't ask for this, and at this rate, he's

1173
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:30,840
gonna have to do it at the center position with

1174
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,639
the way big men are dropping it, right.

1175
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: Nobody stays healthy there. I mean you want to talk

1176
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,199
about fallout though, Like you know, there was all that

1177
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,599
talk about like just the MAVs lost like hundreds of

1178
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:47,119
thousands of followers on social Like I'm the last person

1179
00:56:47,159 --> 00:56:49,320
that gives a shit about that. But it's like coupled

1180
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,280
with the fan revolt, like you really might have cost

1181
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,079
yourself like a generation of fans that are just like

1182
00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:58,440
never again. You know, like that that feels pretty real.

1183
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,039
And what does that mean for like the team on

1184
00:57:01,079 --> 00:57:04,880
the floor, Maybe not much, but like that, that's like

1185
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,079
a level of fallout. I guess to keep using the

1186
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:11,760
word that none of these other teams are facing to

1187
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,440
where it's like you've alienated a lot of people that

1188
00:57:15,639 --> 00:57:20,519
just will never trust the franch the ownership because that's

1189
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:22,880
the constant. They're never going to trust this ownership group.

1190
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,800
Nico Harrison, Like what's the over How long is Nico

1191
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,599
Harrison gonna be there? There're already been whispers that like

1192
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:29,159
he doesn't want to do this forever, but it's like

1193
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:31,039
he's gone in a year.

1194
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:32,079
Speaker 1: He thinks the.

1195
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 2: Long term is three years, so that right, which maybe

1196
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,039
he's just being honest about the tenure of an executive.

1197
00:57:39,039 --> 00:57:42,039
But still, yeah, Dallas is a different class. The Kings

1198
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:43,960
are just the Kings want to be decent and they're

1199
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,880
going to be decent and uh, or maybe they want

1200
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,920
to be more than decent, but they're conducting business as

1201
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,280
if they want to be decent, and they will hit

1202
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,519
that goal. And there's a firm cap on on that,

1203
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:57,320
I think, And I don't know, it's just they're they're

1204
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,400
they're bulls West. It feels like, uh to some extent,

1205
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:02,519
I mean literally will give him their wings.

1206
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're really and even just like the

1207
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,599
setup of just so let's put like a defensive liability

1208
00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:10,199
behind those I just don't. Yeah, my pick would be

1209
00:58:10,239 --> 00:58:13,360
the Suns, and I might actually elevate the Mavericks over

1210
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,199
the Sixers just because they're almost stuck in a way

1211
00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:18,400
that might be good where we're not going to trade

1212
00:58:18,519 --> 00:58:20,760
Joel and beat then deer of his value right now,

1213
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,239
so you might as well have him get surgery and

1214
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:26,199
hopefully he gives you if he gives you fifty games

1215
00:58:26,199 --> 00:58:28,480
next year and like he's just healthy for the playoffs,

1216
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:31,559
like you have that out. I don't, I guess Dallas

1217
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:34,239
does still kind of have that out and Max Christie's

1218
00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:36,000
look pretty good for that. I don't I don't know,

1219
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:37,760
but I think the Suns are the pick for me

1220
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,000
in terms of the team that I think we'll have

1221
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,360
the most fallout from.

1222
00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:42,199
Speaker 2: A point he talked me into it. It's just like

1223
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,079
the blow up's pretty imminent there. I want to talk about, uh,

1224
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,719
before we get to the the we just have the

1225
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,599
one more. We'll get to the Spurs in minute with

1226
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:53,320
the wimbi of it all, but we want to talk

1227
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:58,280
about the Luca Lakers stuff because now that the main

1228
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,280
justification for him being traded is just out there, is like, oh,

1229
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,559
conditioning commitment, like he just we don't believe in him

1230
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:08,039
long term, I find myself, and I think in general,

1231
00:59:08,159 --> 00:59:12,239
like people are viewing him through that lens. So it's

1232
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,480
like you see him against Charlotte the other night and

1233
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:19,119
it's like five turnovers in the first quarter, no lift,

1234
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,679
just looks like he can't move, looks awful, Like I

1235
00:59:22,679 --> 00:59:25,000
think he almost had a triple double, which like kind

1236
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,599
of is tells you like what he can do anyway,

1237
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,559
But the Lakers do lose that game to a terrible

1238
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:33,079
Hornets team and Luca was really really bad, looked really

1239
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:36,800
bad physically, and it's like, oh, now, like now he

1240
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:41,840
really has to prove that narrative wrong. And like I

1241
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,599
don't think we're gonna see that this season. I really

1242
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:47,920
think like he's never gonna because there's not enough time left.

1243
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,000
He looks very clearly hobbled to meet like it just

1244
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:53,360
doesn't look to be in any kind of shape from

1245
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,119
like again, I know this is unfair, but like from

1246
00:59:55,159 --> 00:59:59,079
body composition standpoint two, just like he's gassed immediately, like

1247
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:00,880
and because he hasn't played and it's a calf injury,

1248
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,679
you're not running on that when you're out. I think

1249
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,239
this season for the Lakers, like is it's gonna be

1250
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,679
spent looking for signs that Luca is Like, Oh, he's

1251
01:00:10,719 --> 01:00:13,880
looking a little better, But I don't. I'm do you

1252
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,280
think we'll see like all NBA first team level Luca

1253
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:19,960
at any point before next year?

1254
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:23,119
Speaker 1: I don't. My guess would be no, which would be

1255
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:25,599
one of my tangential items was like, what is the

1256
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:28,960
Lakers ceiling this season? Because even if Luca is Luca,

1257
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,039
it feels like and the numbers don't back this up

1258
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:33,880
just yet because the sample size is so small. This

1259
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:37,000
defense should be really bad, like with the way that

1260
01:00:37,039 --> 01:00:39,599
the like they're Tamson out here, what's that?

1261
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:40,679
Speaker 2: But it hasn't been.

1262
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: Somehow, No, it hasn't been. So like maybe I'm missing

1263
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,199
something like Reeves has played pretty well and like you've

1264
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:47,480
gotten some good minutes having from Ruie, but you have

1265
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:49,679
Dorny Finny Smith gave Vinton's come on a little bit.

1266
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Vanderbilt doesn't play in their win over the Blazers, nor

1267
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,880
did Luca, but you have him. So maybe I'm kind

1268
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,840
of over correcting there, but it ties into the same thing.

1269
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:00,639
I just think there's no more time for him to rest,

1270
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:02,440
like we've entered the stretch run. If they're gonna buy

1271
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:05,480
him rest, it's just to kind of preserve whatever version.

1272
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:09,239
And you're also in this new environment. We're just integrating

1273
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,280
someone such a massive piece like Luca on the fly

1274
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,719
is super difficult, and then knowing kind of how you

1275
01:01:16,719 --> 01:01:19,280
know if if you trusted And this isn't a great

1276
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,360
example because Dallas had Luca playing off the ball in

1277
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,159
a little bit faster over the past couple of years,

1278
01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:25,280
like just a little bit more. But you know who

1279
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,440
JJ Reddick is and you have Lebron's like that, forget

1280
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,519
the speed thing, but like you're gonna try and you

1281
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:33,639
use Luca in a bunch of different ways, and I

1282
01:01:33,679 --> 01:01:36,519
think you should like, not that you should punt on

1283
01:01:36,519 --> 01:01:38,760
this season. It's Lebron's age forty season, but like you've

1284
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,119
now signaled that Luca is the future of your franchise.

1285
01:01:41,519 --> 01:01:45,760
The experimentation begins now almost you shouldn't view the consequences

1286
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,679
of this season as anything, and so I would expect

1287
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:50,199
that to continue as well. How long does it take

1288
01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:52,239
to even hash out the dynamic between him and Bron

1289
01:01:52,239 --> 01:01:54,199
and him and the rest of the team. So even

1290
01:01:54,199 --> 01:01:58,000
if Luca is Luca, there's still that element of unfamiliarity

1291
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,559
that I think was going to read. We always I

1292
01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:03,360
think I'll speak for myself. I always get a little

1293
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,559
over excited in the moments like, oh the Lakers got Luca,

1294
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:07,480
Like how much better are they going to be? For

1295
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:09,880
the most part, this shit take time to figure out

1296
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,599
when you're dealing with high usage players. It's very rarely.

1297
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:15,960
I'm trying to think Kevin Durant to Golden State was

1298
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,599
kind of the one where yeah they were growing pains,

1299
01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:19,719
but the top end talent was just so good. But

1300
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,159
him and Steph Curry are two of the most plug

1301
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:23,679
and play superstars of all time.

1302
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 2: And you got an off season, you got it. You

1303
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,960
didn't do it mid stream. That's the other thing. Like

1304
01:02:28,039 --> 01:02:30,280
the mid stream change is like I mean you like, oh,

1305
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,840
Clyde Drexler to the Rockets in like ninety four, like

1306
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,199
that worked out well, but like I mean, you're you're

1307
01:02:35,239 --> 01:02:38,079
digging real, like Rashid Wallace to the Pistons, like that

1308
01:02:38,199 --> 01:02:41,719
was an in season trade too, Like I don't know

1309
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,280
nothing else jumps readily to mind of a trade of

1310
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,119
this magnitude where I was like, no problem, hit the

1311
01:02:46,119 --> 01:02:48,599
ground running, everything worked, and and like it might be

1312
01:02:48,639 --> 01:02:51,360
a different conversation if Luca were the best version of

1313
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,719
himself and like he just isn't for a number of reasons,

1314
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,719
and like I just don't think it's realistic for him

1315
01:02:58,119 --> 01:03:01,280
to get there by the play. And then that's the

1316
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,800
other thing you mentioned it like there are no seasons

1317
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,199
to burn with Lebron at forty Like so now you're

1318
01:03:06,239 --> 01:03:10,119
hoping you get one year of like both of them

1319
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,719
at whatever passes for their best now, like it's it

1320
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,880
is a shame I think that, Like if Luca were

1321
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,000
like full on Luca and you threw him on this

1322
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:23,400
Lakers team and he was healthy and you know, everything

1323
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,239
was good, I like I would be more inclined to say, like,

1324
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,039
I don't They're going to figure it out and it's

1325
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:30,079
going to be terrifying, Like I don't care about the defense,

1326
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:31,880
I don't care about anything else. You got those two guys,

1327
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,519
they'll figure out how to win. It's just the circumstances

1328
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:37,159
just aren't conducive to that right.

1329
01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: Now, do you? And when we're looking at this now,

1330
01:03:40,039 --> 01:03:42,320
if we focus on just Luca, and I think this

1331
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,679
is probably one of my biggest character flaws is I

1332
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,239
understand that we do not live in a meritocracy, but

1333
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,320
I am conditioned to give people the benefit of the

1334
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,719
doubt in the sense of, let's look at Nico Harrison,

1335
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,519
the Mavericks. You can't be this fucking stupid, right, Like,

1336
01:03:57,719 --> 01:03:59,360
it is what I'm thinking about in my head, and

1337
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,920
so I lead it leads me to think, like maybe

1338
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,159
we should worry about Luca long term. That the fact

1339
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:07,400
that like there's no one even if you don't like him,

1340
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,840
even if you had doubts about him, just giving off

1341
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:14,000
what he's done. You can't be so again fucking stupid.

1342
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,320
It's a just willy nilly get rid of someone like him.

1343
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:19,599
And so in my head, I'm like, well, there must

1344
01:04:19,639 --> 01:04:21,719
be something here, like is there just something wrong with

1345
01:04:22,039 --> 01:04:23,800
his body or something else that we don't know about,

1346
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,840
to where you're not just worried about are we gonna

1347
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:27,559
get first team All NBA Luca for the rest of

1348
01:04:27,599 --> 01:04:30,400
this season? But has for some reason this player who

1349
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,880
is only twenty five years old, already a perennial MVP candidate,

1350
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,880
already made so many first team All NBA squads, Like

1351
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,880
have we already seen the best of Lucas? So like

1352
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,639
that's kind of in the bat I I will say, no,

1353
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,599
I don't think that's the case. But just because this happened,

1354
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,360
and again, like I said, it might just be a

1355
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,960
character flow on my end that I'm giving any sort

1356
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,440
of benefit of the doubt or treatence to what Dallas did.

1357
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:55,480
I'm not gonna lie, though, It's like it's still creeping

1358
01:04:55,559 --> 01:04:57,000
up my mind to where like do we need to

1359
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,400
worry about this beyond this year?

1360
01:04:58,679 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: That's where I started with is like now I watch

1361
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:02,960
him differently, and now I think of him differently because

1362
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,280
like to your point, the MAVs and and Nico Harrison,

1363
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,679
like they're in a position to know, like they they

1364
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:11,920
have more information than anybody else like that, and you

1365
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,119
you do you sort of like it's like that make

1366
01:05:14,199 --> 01:05:16,039
it make sense, Like you just want it to be

1367
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:20,159
irrational because it just still that trade, the irrational component

1368
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:22,440
of it is will forever be and this won't change

1369
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,239
for me. I don't think no matter what happens, is

1370
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,440
not shopping him and not getting more than they got

1371
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:32,480
like that that will be anexcusable to me for eternity.

1372
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:38,119
But the idea that like you're saying, we as Dallas,

1373
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:40,840
think we've seen the best of him, or at least

1374
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,519
we don't think we're going to see enough of him

1375
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,679
at a level that we need to to justify a supermax.

1376
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,519
Like I don't know, man, like you have. As crazy

1377
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:52,559
as that trade seemed, I think you you're right. I

1378
01:05:52,599 --> 01:05:56,639
think you have to say there's you have to give

1379
01:05:56,639 --> 01:05:58,880
a little bit of deference to the people that were

1380
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,920
around him for his whole care deciding this because it

1381
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,519
seems crazy and like I'm just not ready to accept that,

1382
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:09,639
Like there's that level of a rational actor out there

1383
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:10,360
in that position.

1384
01:06:10,679 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: I have I think two more before the Wemby thing.

1385
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,519
The one I absolutely want to get to is the

1386
01:06:15,679 --> 01:06:18,559
who's next. So when you look back at last season,

1387
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:22,880
you kind of understood, oh, the Rockets, maybe even the Magic,

1388
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,320
like those teams were next, and then the magically started

1389
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,760
that like that this year, and then the Rockets are

1390
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:30,679
there right now, so some people might view them as

1391
01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:32,519
next in a sense, Oh, they're going to be a

1392
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,440
title contender by next season, like they're kind of here.

1393
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,159
And so I'm just looking at it feels like every year,

1394
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,000
especially during this time, or at least post January one,

1395
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:45,599
we all collectively settle on the team that is next,

1396
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,440
for whatever reason it might be. And this year, I

1397
01:06:49,559 --> 01:06:54,159
don't know that. I just have this consensus answer to that,

1398
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,199
And so I'm wondering, is it just, oh, it's like Houston,

1399
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,159
we're just working from a higher level, or is it

1400
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,519
do you look at any of these other teams that

1401
01:07:02,559 --> 01:07:06,960
are floating closer to the bottom and convince yourself, oh,

1402
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:09,039
like no, like they're putting us on notice for the

1403
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:11,239
next x amount of seasons.

1404
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,039
Speaker 2: Well to not jump on it again too early. San

1405
01:07:14,039 --> 01:07:16,559
Antonio would have been a nice pick here had things

1406
01:07:16,599 --> 01:07:18,440
been different, and maybe they still are the pick. We're

1407
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,639
just not going to see the like tantalizing late season

1408
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,599
run that would make that. Houston's the first thought. But

1409
01:07:25,639 --> 01:07:28,880
they're already very good, and I think we'll probably need

1410
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,000
to change a little bit to get that next level,

1411
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:34,079
like Memphis has already been established. You look at like

1412
01:07:34,599 --> 01:07:38,000
the Wolves were kind of that last year, Like I mean,

1413
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:39,800
I don't know what you'd call them last year because

1414
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,679
they were just so good. Cleveland's too good to qualify, Yeah,

1415
01:07:43,679 --> 01:07:47,199
I don't. I do see like a void. I don't know. Again, Orlando,

1416
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,280
if they'd been healthy, they could have been next again

1417
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:53,599
maybe Yeah, I don't know. Do we go too far

1418
01:07:53,639 --> 01:07:57,039
down if we're just saying Portland because lately.

1419
01:07:57,119 --> 01:07:59,559
Speaker 1: That was the team and it's do they have? But

1420
01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:01,360
could we us be a little early in the sense

1421
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,800
of do they have what the Rockets did last year

1422
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,480
in them? Where they're hovering around five hundred in them

1423
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,719
for next season and you're feeling a lot better about

1424
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,440
the future because now they've gone from I think people

1425
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:17,000
framed their roster construction and approach as more so incoherent

1426
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:19,680
and now it's transitioned to they just have so many dudes,

1427
01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:22,479
and so they kind of entered that phase. I think

1428
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,000
they're the best candidate unless you want to focus on

1429
01:08:25,039 --> 01:08:27,159
the hot Like the Spurs just aren't a candidate now

1430
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:29,520
without Wemby, Like they might be next, but it's not.

1431
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,359
We're not going to see that for the rest of

1432
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:33,560
this season, although they did beat the Suns without Wemby.

1433
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 2: So do you think the Pistons have any of that

1434
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,079
in them? I mean, they're they're over five hundred already.

1435
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:42,239
I mean that they've made the jump, like the really

1436
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:45,039
big jump this year because they were they won like

1437
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:47,800
five games last year and they're gonna be they're on PAI.

1438
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,600
Maybe they win forty five, Like that's totally a possibility.

1439
01:08:53,079 --> 01:08:55,279
I just don't know what the They don't to me

1440
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:57,880
have the feel of like, oh, they have all these

1441
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:03,520
guys that could like there's more, but maybe that's unfair

1442
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,760
because you got Holland, you got Thompson, you got I mean,

1443
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,000
Duran is not quite at that level, and then the

1444
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:11,399
Ivy injury changes it. But in the East, I think

1445
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,840
they're the team I would look at hardest, but they're

1446
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,880
kind of already. I mean, they're they're in the top

1447
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:19,640
six team in the they're six.

1448
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: Right now, but I think you know they do fit

1449
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:23,760
into this discussion. The reason I guess I glossed over

1450
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,479
them is that aside from Cade, and again this might

1451
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,039
just be unfair to Thompson, to Holland, to I mean

1452
01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:32,199
Ivy post injury now, but there are questions beforehand and Duran,

1453
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,479
you don't look at this team and aside from Caid,

1454
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,840
the forces driving everything, there's just a chance that so

1455
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,439
many of them are ephemeral where this team isn't gonna

1456
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,319
like the Rockets is an example. It was the question

1457
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:47,000
was or are they gonna consolidate into a star this

1458
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:48,680
aw season or just run everybody back and be a

1459
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,279
lot better with the Pistons, You're not really asking about

1460
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,880
that consolidation aspect. It's ohya, like what happens if Tim

1461
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,039
Hardaway and or Malik Beasley leave? And what do we

1462
01:09:59,119 --> 01:10:01,760
feel about the j and high Ivy k kunt Of

1463
01:10:02,079 --> 01:10:05,359
as much as much improved as Jade and Ivy got,

1464
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,119
Like is he the best fit like alongside Kate or

1465
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:10,720
on a roster with Kate? And then Holland like, what

1466
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:12,760
field do you have for him on offense and defense?

1467
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,319
After this year and Asar Thompson based off how you

1468
01:10:15,399 --> 01:10:17,199
kind of want to use him on offense. Does that

1469
01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:21,439
complicate at all like Jay and Ivy's future here. So there,

1470
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,760
I think the choice. They're the highest quality choice right now.

1471
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:27,840
But there's just something not to say that they won't

1472
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,840
be good next year, but there's something about what we're

1473
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,920
watching where it feels like, well, it could just look materially

1474
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,079
different in a way that's uncomfortable that I still think

1475
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:38,039
I would gravitate towards now. If you was gonna be

1476
01:10:38,039 --> 01:10:41,119
better next year, the answer should probably just be the Pistons.

1477
01:10:41,119 --> 01:10:43,600
I think they've earned that, but Portland might be the

1478
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,640
team that I'm kind of watching there. But maybe that's

1479
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,840
also maybe Detroit has been too competent for too long

1480
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:48,960
this season for me to.

1481
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think using Houston. I don't know why we're

1482
01:10:51,199 --> 01:10:53,000
stuck on this, but I keep doing it too. Using

1483
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:58,319
Houston as like the the point of comparison. The Blazers

1484
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:00,760
feel more like that because with the Rockets it was

1485
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,520
like there were way fewer like you're talking about like

1486
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,079
overlap or like fit questions because like Jabbar Smith junior

1487
01:11:08,279 --> 01:11:11,920
defense in spacing, Shan Gun elbow hub Thompson, I don't

1488
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,239
know whatever, and then like Jalen Green has shown major

1489
01:11:15,239 --> 01:11:18,079
shooting potential Intari Easton's the hustle guy, and like everybody

1490
01:11:18,119 --> 01:11:20,479
was like fitting into these little boxes. I think the

1491
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,880
diversity of like talent types with a little bit like

1492
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,680
some like backcourt skewing stuff with the Blazers is more

1493
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,399
like that than the Pistons set up is because you

1494
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:36,000
do have like our Holland and Thompson like really viable

1495
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,319
next to Cunningham, Like is that like maybe, but like

1496
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,680
there need to be like skill developments, whereas with the

1497
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,039
Rockets it was just like, I don't know, there's almost

1498
01:11:44,079 --> 01:11:47,359
like too many like nice fits and like different combos

1499
01:11:47,399 --> 01:11:49,520
that make sense. It's a little it's pretty different that

1500
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:50,720
way as we talk about it.

1501
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 1: My final one before we get to Wemby, so we

1502
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,800
have the who's next? My question is who are we overlooking?

1503
01:11:57,159 --> 01:11:58,920
Like what is the team that could really cut I

1504
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,920
think the case we already to mention the Pacers, the Nuggets.

1505
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:03,960
It feels weird to say this. They're just quietly number

1506
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,880
two in the West at this point and taking care

1507
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,920
of business. But I think you could also make you know,

1508
01:12:09,159 --> 01:12:11,079
I feel like people are kind of writing off Memphis

1509
01:12:11,079 --> 01:12:14,199
in Houston in the context of the postseason, and then

1510
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,039
my actual pick, I think you could even argue for

1511
01:12:17,079 --> 01:12:20,520
the Timberwolves as well. My actual pick is just should

1512
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,439
we be paying more attention to what the Clippers are doing?

1513
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:27,279
Like they've annihilated teams when Kawhi, James Harden, and Vitza

1514
01:12:27,319 --> 01:12:29,720
Zubats are on the floor, and now that sample size

1515
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,279
is sub seven hundred possessions, but like Kawhi is playing

1516
01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:37,439
basketball again, this defense is actual hell fire. They traded

1517
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,960
for both Dog Bogdanovich, where if he is just one,

1518
01:12:41,079 --> 01:12:43,640
if he's just even more available than he was in Atlanta,

1519
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,319
he improves their team. And then is he actually if

1520
01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:49,319
he's actually making shots, like he's exactly the type of

1521
01:12:49,359 --> 01:12:52,479
player that they needed at full strength. And so I

1522
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:54,920
look at them and I say, now they're coming off

1523
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:56,760
a loss as I record this, of which I only

1524
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,960
saw a little bit of, But like, why aren't we

1525
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,399
not that we should say, oh, they're Tier one title contender.

1526
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,119
But if Kawhi is gonna be there, which is a

1527
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:09,439
big if, Like are we just kind of sleeping on

1528
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,720
this team even though you and I have now acknowledged

1529
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,920
that we were wrong on the Clippers to start the year.

1530
01:13:14,199 --> 01:13:16,439
They've had a hell of a season. The defense is incredible,

1531
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:18,680
even James Harden just like being able to kind of

1532
01:13:19,159 --> 01:13:20,880
turn back the clock in the sense of, oh, this

1533
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,239
is gonna be not just high usage, but obscenely difficult

1534
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:26,680
high usage and like just being able to survive that

1535
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:30,319
when you're looking at the games that he's played. I

1536
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:32,079
think they're the team that are still being over like

1537
01:13:32,079 --> 01:13:34,159
they're they're in the top six in the West. And

1538
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:37,479
I kind of what I said about the Warriors aside

1539
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:40,760
from the Thunder, I don't know what team you sit

1540
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:42,600
here and tell me like, oh, this team is guaranteed

1541
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,279
to beat the Clippers in the best of seven series

1542
01:13:44,279 --> 01:13:45,600
if the Clippers are healthy.

1543
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 2: That's the thing. So they would play the Grizzlies in

1544
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,520
a first round series if the playoffs start is today,

1545
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,319
and I'm I mean the Grizzlies would be favored in that,

1546
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,720
but like they're one, they're gonna be at home. But still,

1547
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,319
like I think you're right, Like you'd have to say,

1548
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,960
I don't know if like if Kawhi is really ready

1549
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,439
to go, like that's it feels kind of coin flippy

1550
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:07,359
to me, which is not what you'd typically say about

1551
01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:10,039
a six to three playoff matchup. I think I think

1552
01:14:10,079 --> 01:14:13,319
they are being overlooked. I continue to overlook them, and

1553
01:14:13,359 --> 01:14:17,119
I think the reason is just that, like there's nobody

1554
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:23,439
that feels like they're doing anything but playing over their

1555
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,880
heads or like hanging on, you know what I mean.

1556
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,880
Like that, it's like Zoobots has been amazing and it's

1557
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,279
just like, well, he can't be better than this, so

1558
01:14:33,399 --> 01:14:36,560
like what's the upside for them? And then like Kawhi

1559
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,840
has has been on the floor, but it's just not

1560
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,479
been quite what he was, which is should be the

1561
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,680
expectation given his age and injury history. And Harden feels

1562
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,479
like he's just hanging on, like just doing enough to

1563
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,640
make that defense like hold up, like being oh, it's

1564
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,880
sufficient on ball creator at crazy volume, like you know

1565
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,399
what I mean. Like I just I feel like they're older,

1566
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,600
they're we know who a lot of these guys are,

1567
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,840
and it's hard to believe that like they can a

1568
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:06,880
sustain this or be even more certainly like do better.

1569
01:15:07,399 --> 01:15:09,600
So I think that's why they're being overlooked. But like

1570
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,359
they're just objectively a good team, like they're you know,

1571
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,800
they're gonna bump up in the high forties, like win

1572
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:19,279
total potentially. So yeah, I think I definitely based on

1573
01:15:19,319 --> 01:15:22,279
my like League Pass viewing preferences, the Clippers are very

1574
01:15:22,359 --> 01:15:23,119
very overlooked.

1575
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's they added Ben Simmons too. I actually think

1576
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:29,039
that he could become if they decide that, hey, we

1577
01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:30,960
need to play him twenty minutes a game, I think

1578
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,199
that could actually become a detriment for them. I think

1579
01:15:33,239 --> 01:15:35,359
that Ben Simmons still has his use, but it needs

1580
01:15:35,359 --> 01:15:38,680
to be viewed as spot usage. That's not guaranteed, right,

1581
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,840
But like if o'donaic is gonna hit you up, what

1582
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:41,319
is he shooting?

1583
01:15:41,359 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 2: Like?

1584
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,159
Speaker 1: He's been forty percent from three in the what is

1585
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:44,960
it two or three games?

1586
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:46,159
Speaker 2: He's played a lot better?

1587
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, is there what would be the other team?

1588
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 2: Though?

1589
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,359
Speaker 1: If you had to pick one that we're overlooking? Is

1590
01:15:52,359 --> 01:15:54,560
it is it Indy? Is it Minnesota? Is it one

1591
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,239
of the Houston's or Memphis?

1592
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:59,359
Speaker 2: Is I think, Well, I don't know. I'm Minnesota feels

1593
01:15:59,399 --> 01:16:02,560
disappointed ultimately, So I don't know if that's overlooking them.

1594
01:16:03,119 --> 01:16:07,279
Speaker 1: I still believe in their ceiling, which is I like,

1595
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,880
I don't know that I have like a good reason why.

1596
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,199
I think the play of Jaden McDaniel over the past

1597
01:16:12,279 --> 01:16:14,640
like a couple months has helped out a ton, And

1598
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,680
so I just look at it and say, they feel

1599
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,920
like a team that might disappoint us in the regular season,

1600
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:21,279
but like they will fuck you up in the playoffs.

1601
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,239
Speaker 2: Well then do we have to just mention the heat

1602
01:16:24,279 --> 01:16:26,560
They lost four straight going into the break, So like

1603
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:32,000
I maybe not, but does does the autobio where Hero

1604
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:35,319
Triumvirate like get you interested?

1605
01:16:35,359 --> 01:16:38,359
Speaker 1: At least if Tyler Hero doesn't believe in them, then

1606
01:16:38,359 --> 01:16:40,760
I can't either. He's always said where he called, and

1607
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:42,640
I respect to Candor. He's like, we're not contenders and

1608
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,560
they're not. So just I think if I had to

1609
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:46,560
pick another team, it'd probably be we already mentioned them,

1610
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:48,840
it would be the Pacers. I just like they're fourth

1611
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,279
in the East, and it's just sort of oh, all right,

1612
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,000
like no that that that might actually matter with the

1613
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:57,399
way that they've been able to cobble together, like Nemhard

1614
01:16:57,399 --> 01:16:59,680
and Nee Smith is now back and like Miles Turners

1615
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,319
looked more like himself. Pascal Siakam's having a really good season.

1616
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:07,399
I think they're another team to where Okay, like I said,

1617
01:17:07,399 --> 01:17:09,319
I feel better about them than the Knicks in the playoffs,

1618
01:17:09,319 --> 01:17:11,159
but like, let's see if some of the defensive success

1619
01:17:11,199 --> 01:17:13,439
they had holds up in the postseason, that would be

1620
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:16,279
a question I have. But they're they're deep, they could

1621
01:17:16,279 --> 01:17:18,359
play a lot of different ways, and I feel like

1622
01:17:18,359 --> 01:17:19,720
that's been over Like if we were to pick one

1623
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,279
from each conference to be Clippers Pacers for me, for sure.

1624
01:17:22,279 --> 01:17:26,399
Speaker 2: I think that's what Andrew Nimhard had the nastiest slow

1625
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,239
step last night on a breakaway where John Moran I

1626
01:17:29,239 --> 01:17:31,479
think was sure that he was going to like shotgun

1627
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:33,720
the block, like right through the backboard, and nim Hart

1628
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:35,399
just stopped. It was unbelievable.

1629
01:17:36,039 --> 01:17:38,560
Speaker 1: This is It was such a throwaway play, but like

1630
01:17:39,399 --> 01:17:41,560
this just felt like how keyed in the Pacers are

1631
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,279
right now? Like Miles Turner throwing a swing pass to

1632
01:17:44,359 --> 01:17:46,680
the corner, like after the catcherms like, this team is

1633
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,880
that's just not like a Miles Turner thing. I was like,

1634
01:17:49,159 --> 01:17:51,760
this team is just so locked in right now. I'm like, yeah,

1635
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:53,520
they've had some bad games. I think they went out

1636
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,600
and got hammered by the Knicks. Immediately after I said

1637
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,119
I feel better about them in the playoffs than the Knicks.

1638
01:17:58,119 --> 01:18:01,439
But that team, they they might be ready to do

1639
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:02,159
some spicy things.

1640
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:06,199
Speaker 2: We've seen them hit an offensive level that's like, oh God,

1641
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:08,399
like this is the best offense on planet Earth for

1642
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,880
like very long stretches and this was not that long ago.

1643
01:18:11,039 --> 01:18:14,000
So yeah, they the Pacers are really maybe they do

1644
01:18:14,119 --> 01:18:17,000
deserve to be viewed as as dangerous or more dangerous

1645
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:18,600
than the Knicks. Some some to chew on.

1646
01:18:19,039 --> 01:18:21,359
Speaker 1: You want to talk to us, to us about that,

1647
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:23,640
Victor Webbin Yama guy, Yeah, I.

1648
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,039
Speaker 2: Mean, it's just it's a huge bummer. It sounds like

1649
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,079
the blood cloud or the deep van thrombosis is like not,

1650
01:18:30,279 --> 01:18:34,079
it's it's more brandon ingram Asar Thompson than Chris Bosh.

1651
01:18:34,119 --> 01:18:37,119
So like severity wise and long term outlook wise, it

1652
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:41,239
seems like it's not as it's still very very scary.

1653
01:18:41,279 --> 01:18:44,560
Obviously we're not mentioned that was likely had no vital

1654
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,760
organs involved, so that's a plush. But he's done for

1655
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,640
the year. I think that's just what other choice do

1656
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,439
they have? But then that just sort of I mean,

1657
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:59,439
it's difficult to think of, you know, certainly among non

1658
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:03,960
playoffs tas a single player going out that just so

1659
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,920
fundamentally overhauls like everything about the rest of the season

1660
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:12,039
for his team, because now, you know, you raise all

1661
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:15,680
these questions from starting with like, Okay, well do we

1662
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,159
just tank because it'd be super awesome to have another

1663
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,880
you know, a high lottery pick here, and and then

1664
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:24,600
if the answer is yes, like well but how realistically,

1665
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:26,359
like how far can we fall? Like we're not going

1666
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,880
to get into the bottom four records? That seems impossible.

1667
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:33,960
So from there it's like, well do we give Deer

1668
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,119
and Fox every other night off? Considering like what are

1669
01:19:37,119 --> 01:19:39,520
we playing for? And we're not going to learn anything

1670
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,279
about how he interfaces with Wemby, which is like the

1671
01:19:43,319 --> 01:19:46,159
most important thing do we mess around with like okay,

1672
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:48,640
steph Castle, you are the point guard for forty minutes,

1673
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,520
let's see what happens or you know, like that's just

1674
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:53,680
you know, look, they're gonna play, so Hanna point guard,

1675
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,000
You've got it, Like there's you know what I mean,

1676
01:19:56,039 --> 01:19:58,159
Like you can just is this a full on experiment

1677
01:19:58,239 --> 01:20:01,199
now to just see like if there's any thing that

1678
01:20:01,239 --> 01:20:03,279
we can learn from the balance of this season that

1679
01:20:03,319 --> 01:20:06,359
will inform next year's version of the team. And like

1680
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:10,079
next next year's version, like what's what do you try

1681
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:11,760
to salvage if you're the Spurs.

1682
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:14,159
Speaker 1: I think the one thing I'm still exploring is Okay,

1683
01:20:14,159 --> 01:20:16,600
so what does the dynamic between Castle and Fox together

1684
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,159
look like? Because I think you can argue Wemby's might

1685
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:20,479
be one of the best players of all time if

1686
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,079
he stays healthy, like he could be super plug and play.

1687
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,840
And so can you work out a dynamic with whoever

1688
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,640
you're playing in the middle with Steph Castle and Daron

1689
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:30,119
Fox that you have the blueprint for what because that

1690
01:20:30,159 --> 01:20:32,520
was one of my bigger concerns, Like I think the

1691
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:35,239
Selva all, that'll be fine, that'll work itself out. Jeremy

1692
01:20:35,279 --> 01:20:37,239
Sohan gets in there with awkward, but he's not someone

1693
01:20:37,239 --> 01:20:39,600
that there is married to at the moment as a Castle.

1694
01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:43,319
One of the harbingers though, will be do you just

1695
01:20:43,399 --> 01:20:46,079
buy out Chris Paul at this point? I mean, if

1696
01:20:46,079 --> 01:20:47,560
he really wants to come back, you can sign him

1697
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:49,840
in free agency next season. But you have Daron Fox,

1698
01:20:50,079 --> 01:20:53,760
you have Steph Castle, and now you're not like you're

1699
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,199
playing odds were kind of long to begin with. Without

1700
01:20:56,239 --> 01:20:58,960
Miker and Minyama, they're basically gone, he might have an

1701
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,279
opportunity he's making in the mid level this year because

1702
01:21:01,279 --> 01:21:03,720
that whoever he wants, that's like someone who might want

1703
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,359
to go to the playoffs, and that is that might

1704
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:07,039
be a different discussion. I mean, that is a different

1705
01:21:07,039 --> 01:21:09,000
discussion where would Ris Paul actually be fun to watch

1706
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:12,119
right now, but it would also be a signal of Okay,

1707
01:21:12,119 --> 01:21:15,359
the Spurs are really leaning into full experimentation mode. Is

1708
01:21:15,359 --> 01:21:17,000
there a chance though that you think they viewed it

1709
01:21:17,039 --> 01:21:19,880
internally as maybe we could still make up this ground

1710
01:21:20,279 --> 01:21:23,199
in the West and usurp you know, two of the

1711
01:21:23,239 --> 01:21:24,840
teams that are in front of you to get into

1712
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:28,159
one of the top ten spots. I I don't.

1713
01:21:28,199 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 2: I mean, they they might believe that, but like I'm

1714
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,359
just pulling it up now. So they're they're three back

1715
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:38,399
of the tenth spot right now, like are you gonna?

1716
01:21:38,399 --> 01:21:42,159
And you we you know, certainly Phoenix is more incentivized

1717
01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:44,800
to chase that than the Spurs are, and Portland's right

1718
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:47,319
there behind him. The Warriors we think will be a

1719
01:21:47,359 --> 01:21:51,319
lot better. Maybe Dallas falls out and yeah, I guess

1720
01:21:51,359 --> 01:21:54,880
there is a scenario where they could say, might as well,

1721
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,880
let's get some of these other young guys some experience

1722
01:21:58,199 --> 01:22:01,520
in like meaningful games. Maybe I just don't know. That's

1723
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:03,439
the it's the age old question of like, is that

1724
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,920
is the payoff of that worth sacrificing a little bit

1725
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:11,439
of draft position? Like, I don't know. I I think

1726
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,199
to me, if it's me, I think you spend the

1727
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:18,960
rest of the year doing what you were talking about, Like, Okay,

1728
01:22:19,119 --> 01:22:21,560
what do Fox and Castle? How do we do? Like

1729
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,600
is this viable? And if it's not, does that mean

1730
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,079
Fox isn't the number two we need going forward? Or

1731
01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:29,479
does it mean Castle and like needs to be a

1732
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,039
different kind of player? Like, I think I think that's

1733
01:22:32,079 --> 01:22:34,039
the smartest way to use the rest of the season.

1734
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,079
But san Antonio, you know who, they might really just

1735
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,359
try to try to win games like that that might

1736
01:22:40,399 --> 01:22:41,600
have some value to them.

1737
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,199
Speaker 1: And they'll probably lose games even as they're trying anyway,

1738
01:22:44,199 --> 01:22:46,079
it would be my Yeah, I mean they're y Aaron

1739
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:48,239
Fox is now here, so it changes the complex of this.

1740
01:22:48,279 --> 01:22:50,359
But they're a minus nine point three per one hundred

1741
01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:52,239
without victory women y'ama on the court, and so even

1742
01:22:52,279 --> 01:22:54,399
if they you would have to you mentioned this at

1743
01:22:54,399 --> 01:22:57,119
the top of well, how far do you actually think

1744
01:22:57,159 --> 01:22:59,680
that you could bottom out because it's you're the closest

1745
01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:03,479
below you is four loss is worth, so it's like,

1746
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,479
and none of them below you, except for maybe the Sixers,

1747
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,800
are actively trying to win now, so we're talking about

1748
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:12,159
maybe a spot you could fall. I would argue, I

1749
01:23:12,159 --> 01:23:14,000
think there's probably just more value in trying to figure

1750
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,439
out what you have while trying to win. And if

1751
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:18,439
you happen to organically win and get into playing great

1752
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,560
and if not, like you're probably gonna just right, you're

1753
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,840
gonna end up. But again, how it comes out of

1754
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:26,119
how far down do you think they could tank? I'm

1755
01:23:26,159 --> 01:23:29,359
actually wondering. I have two more questions on this, and

1756
01:23:29,399 --> 01:23:32,760
there's one that's just more important. Does this materially change

1757
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,920
at all how you now approach the long term future

1758
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:41,079
Because there's this unsettling thing happening happening to Victor Wembenyama.

1759
01:23:41,159 --> 01:23:43,119
They believe it's a one off. That's important. I'm not

1760
01:23:43,119 --> 01:23:45,439
writing him off by any means, but like, let's even

1761
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,720
look at it, shrink the window a little more. Does

1762
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,760
it impact maybe how aggressive you are going to be

1763
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,319
leading into this offseason. I don't think you're at a

1764
01:23:54,319 --> 01:23:56,439
point where it's oh, we regret training for dearon Fox.

1765
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:58,760
We don't want to pay him now. But I think

1766
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:00,359
we all kind of talked about it, right, are gonna

1767
01:24:00,359 --> 01:24:02,840
get this year's pick and then what's next? Is there

1768
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:06,039
gonna be more of a reluctance to explore what's next

1769
01:24:06,119 --> 01:24:09,600
beyond what's already in place because of the victim Wembenyama issue.

1770
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I think. I think it can be

1771
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:16,880
really easy. And the Spur situation with Women Yama is

1772
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,640
like an extreme example of this. It can be easy

1773
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:24,000
to think, well, we've got forever, look at all these

1774
01:24:24,119 --> 01:24:26,439
all these future first we have, and we can build

1775
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:28,720
however we want around Women Yama. We can be as

1776
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:31,840
patient as we want to. I think so so Women

1777
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,079
Yama missing the rest of the season. It's just a

1778
01:24:34,119 --> 01:24:37,920
reminder that like, nothing's promised, and if you can it's

1779
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,319
It's kind of like how like the Pacers kind of

1780
01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:42,399
went for it with the Siakham trade, Like even though

1781
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,840
Haliburton is a young cornerstone, like I think, and I

1782
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:49,600
do think going out and getting Fox this year suggests

1783
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,520
to me that the Spurs weren't looking at like a

1784
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,359
five year time horizon. It's like, no, we'll try to

1785
01:24:54,399 --> 01:24:57,239
get as good as we can get within reason. So

1786
01:24:57,359 --> 01:25:00,119
that's that's encouraging. But yeah, you have to look look

1787
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:02,880
at this as like as a signal, as a reminder

1788
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:06,279
that as great as Wemby projects to be, like, shit

1789
01:25:06,279 --> 01:25:09,840
can happen, and there's no guarantee that his age twenty

1790
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:13,239
eight season will be exactly on the trajectory you think

1791
01:25:13,279 --> 01:25:15,399
it will. And it's like we're not timing, you know,

1792
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:19,079
our peak to twenty thirty one or whatever it is,

1793
01:25:19,159 --> 01:25:23,359
Like you you do just have to try to win

1794
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,720
as best you can without going nuts and going Phoenix

1795
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,319
suns or whatever, like you know, fairly immediately. And I

1796
01:25:29,359 --> 01:25:31,920
do think the Spurs we're doing that, you know, to

1797
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:36,119
some extent. So yeah, if anything speed it up.

1798
01:25:36,119 --> 01:25:39,279
Speaker 1: Like because you think it all increase the urgency, well,

1799
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:40,880
I mean, by.

1800
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 2: The way, we'll make dovetail into something else here. But

1801
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:45,920
like I had, Wemby is still making All NBA First

1802
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,399
team this year before he got hurt. So how much

1803
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:51,800
better do you need your key guy to be before

1804
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:54,319
you start going after it? Like he's there now, you know.

1805
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: I just I'm wondering if I would agree with you,

1806
01:25:59,359 --> 01:26:01,640
But maybe it what it does is changes nothing because

1807
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:05,119
that urgency was already extant. Maybe so, but I would

1808
01:26:05,319 --> 01:26:10,439
almost think, are they gonna be more reticent to indulge

1809
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:13,520
that urgency because now they get whatever lottery pick is

1810
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,079
going to We're assuming this year you have Fox, you

1811
01:26:16,119 --> 01:26:18,760
have Castle, you have Sohand, you have Facelle. I don't

1812
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,439
think that they're gonna try and slow it down and

1813
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:24,239
start trading things like players for more picks, but I

1814
01:26:24,239 --> 01:26:26,520
would be curious. I won't predict. I tend to agree

1815
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:28,680
with you that I think, if anything, it should speed

1816
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:31,840
up the urgency within reason. But in the back of

1817
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:33,720
my mind, I'm kind of wondering. It feels like there

1818
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,039
just might be a chance that they'll take a step

1819
01:26:36,039 --> 01:26:37,840
back see what he looks like next year, not a

1820
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:40,319
step back into let's get worse. But maybe they're not

1821
01:26:40,359 --> 01:26:42,079
gonna be as aggressive on the free agent market, or

1822
01:26:42,119 --> 01:26:44,079
maybe they would have made trades had he finished the

1823
01:26:44,079 --> 01:26:46,640
season healthy. One defensive Player of the Year made First

1824
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:49,359
team All NBA. It would have been easier for them

1825
01:26:49,399 --> 01:26:52,119
internally to say, yeah, it's like we're gonna continue to

1826
01:26:52,199 --> 01:26:54,840
just go quote unquote all in, even though again they've

1827
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:59,479
done nothing. That's like super egregious or or like mortgage

1828
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,640
their future or to the hilt. This just adds another

1829
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,479
layer of uncertainty. And I think, look, you go one

1830
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,680
of two ways, Like New Orleans with Zion, Like you

1831
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:09,600
could say that they never kind of they took all

1832
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,880
these half measures trying to build a team in the

1833
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:14,279
image of having him but also not having him. The

1834
01:27:14,319 --> 01:27:16,119
Spurs can't afford to do the same. But like, it's

1835
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:18,079
also early enough to where it's well, like, let's kind

1836
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:21,279
of see how this plays out before we go, because

1837
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:23,840
it wouldn't this be the difference if you're worried about

1838
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,279
his ability moving availability moving forward. It's the difference between

1839
01:27:27,319 --> 01:27:30,760
saying we need a second or third best player versus

1840
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,000
we might need someone who can be our best player

1841
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:34,039
when Wemby's not there.

1842
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:37,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you're I think you sort of

1843
01:27:37,279 --> 01:27:41,039
owe it to the the windfall that was getting wimbin

1844
01:27:41,079 --> 01:27:45,479
Yama to like be as ambitious as you possibly can't. Like,

1845
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,399
I really don't think you can say Fox's number two,

1846
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:50,760
Like I think I think you need to view him

1847
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:54,159
as as the third best player. So I guess, yeah,

1848
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:57,600
and answer your question, I think, like the next guy

1849
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:00,520
you go get I hope as the sp I hope

1850
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,760
they're aiming at someone that's like, oh, he's good enough

1851
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,239
to make us a playoff team without Wim Binyama. Yeah,

1852
01:28:05,239 --> 01:28:08,359
because if we have him and that guy, then we're

1853
01:28:08,399 --> 01:28:10,560
a contender like that that needs to be the level

1854
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,000
of player they're trying to get.

1855
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:14,359
Speaker 1: My guess would be that they are less likely to

1856
01:28:14,399 --> 01:28:16,439
go out and get that guy now though this offseason,

1857
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:18,439
and they might not have been especially likely to do it.

1858
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,319
But my guess now just based off how the Spurs

1859
01:28:21,359 --> 01:28:23,920
have historically operated and just based off kind of the

1860
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:27,960
stakes here, because maybe this what Wemby is next season

1861
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:31,039
informs what you want yourself. Because that's the other thing

1862
01:28:31,119 --> 01:28:33,199
is you still need to figure out that the yarn

1863
01:28:33,239 --> 01:28:35,520
Fox and the Wembi of it all, who's the ideal

1864
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:39,680
second best archetype you're not gonna have We we have hunches,

1865
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:41,840
We've talked about it already post traded line, but you're

1866
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,399
not gonna have an ironclad idea now just because they're

1867
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:45,960
not going to play together again this year. Yeah.

1868
01:28:46,399 --> 01:28:49,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're losing a lot of like valuable research time.

1869
01:28:49,199 --> 01:28:50,760
That that's in addition to all the rest of it

1870
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:51,760
that that hurts a lot.

1871
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:55,119
Speaker 1: Now this is I think the least important question of anything.

1872
01:28:55,159 --> 01:28:58,359
We ask what happens to defensive Player of the Year,

1873
01:28:58,399 --> 01:29:00,640
and like even the All NBA stuff kind of just

1874
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,439
like there's shifts, like it's okay, like okay, you'll just

1875
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,359
shift everyone up a notch and then it's the difference

1876
01:29:05,399 --> 01:29:07,159
like maybe Kyrie makes an All NBA TA or it's

1877
01:29:07,199 --> 01:29:10,079
just something what happens with Devo? Who's the favorite to

1878
01:29:10,079 --> 01:29:12,079
win defensive player? That we know who the betting favorite

1879
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:14,199
is because it's come out, like who is your Defensive

1880
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:15,560
Player of the Year pick? Is it a two man

1881
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:18,039
race between Mobley and Jaron Jackson Junior? Is there anyone

1882
01:29:18,079 --> 01:29:20,079
else who could creep up? And finally, they just want

1883
01:29:20,119 --> 01:29:22,880
to reiterate how much of a bummer it is because

1884
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:26,399
we assume that Wemy was gonna win multiple Defensive Players

1885
01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:28,079
of the Year, but like this is kind of always

1886
01:29:28,279 --> 01:29:31,439
I'm not saying there's something permanently wrong with him, but

1887
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,840
this is a reminder, as you said, that anything anyone

1888
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,399
can be fleeting, and so we just say, oh, he'll

1889
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:39,239
win Defensive Player of the Year again at some point,

1890
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,760
but like nothing is necessarily given, so just a bummer

1891
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,159
that he seemed like he was running away with this award,

1892
01:29:44,199 --> 01:29:46,439
and if he wasn't running away, he at least deserved

1893
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:48,079
to win it, right, And now he's not going to

1894
01:29:48,119 --> 01:29:49,000
be eligible to win it.

1895
01:29:49,319 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it just is Jackson or Mobley,

1896
01:29:54,359 --> 01:29:57,319
and it might. Honestly, I feel like Jackson has the momentum,

1897
01:29:57,359 --> 01:29:59,439
which is like we're talking about what voters think, so

1898
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:01,520
that actually does matter, and it is a thing. It's

1899
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:04,159
not like talking about momentum within a game or anything.

1900
01:30:05,319 --> 01:30:09,720
I think, like, don't you think that this stretch run

1901
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,239
really will just decide it? Because now the race is

1902
01:30:12,279 --> 01:30:15,840
different and now voters can't I honestly like I feel

1903
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:17,960
like a lot of voters would have tuned out because

1904
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,039
it's like Wenby's got it. What are we talking about, Like,

1905
01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:21,840
let's worry about six man or something.

1906
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't have to do something other than site blocks.

1907
01:30:25,039 --> 01:30:26,760
It's gonna be.

1908
01:30:26,319 --> 01:30:29,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think this stretch run is gonna

1909
01:30:29,319 --> 01:30:32,000
decide it. I don't know, I can't remember what jack

1910
01:30:32,039 --> 01:30:34,960
I know Jackson is the favorite, but like it feels

1911
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:39,199
like either of those two guys, whoever you know plays better,

1912
01:30:39,359 --> 01:30:42,239
or whoever voters seem to think is having a bigger

1913
01:30:42,239 --> 01:30:44,560
impact down the stretch, like that'll that guy's gonna win it.

1914
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:48,199
I don't, I don't. I would like it if there

1915
01:30:48,239 --> 01:30:51,199
were like another like a dark horse, that might be

1916
01:30:51,359 --> 01:30:53,680
someone to consider, Like, oh my god, I'm and Thompson.

1917
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:56,079
There's some crazy stat that comes out that shows how

1918
01:30:56,119 --> 01:30:58,720
disruptive he is or that we hadn't thought about. But

1919
01:30:59,279 --> 01:31:01,680
you know, Chet obviously won't have enough games. He would

1920
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,039
definitely be involved in this if he had not been

1921
01:31:05,079 --> 01:31:07,359
out for so much time. Is there anybody else that

1922
01:31:07,359 --> 01:31:10,079
we're not thinking of? Like we did all defensive teams

1923
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:11,880
like not that long ago. I just can't remember anyone

1924
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:13,600
else being like a serious consideration.

1925
01:31:14,159 --> 01:31:16,399
Speaker 1: I think BAM will have a real or could have

1926
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:18,319
a real shot depending on how the heat closed. I

1927
01:31:18,359 --> 01:31:20,279
just think the world like that's how much I just

1928
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:22,800
think of BAM defensively. And I also think there's going

1929
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:25,439
to be a push because we talked about them already.

1930
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,840
The thunder have a generationally good defense. There's going to

1931
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,840
be an inclination to identify or someone there should win it.

1932
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:33,520
And I don't agree that that's how it should work,

1933
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,520
because if anything, that dilutes the accomplishments of the entire

1934
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,880
committee by saying no one person was more responsible than

1935
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,119
everybody else. And just like when you're looking at the

1936
01:31:42,119 --> 01:31:44,920
primary options the betting odds would have, I think it's

1937
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:47,520
lou Dort Shay and j Dubb are in the top

1938
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,399
five or seven now of defensive Player of the Year odds.

1939
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,920
I couldn't bring myself to vote for either of Like

1940
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:54,800
it's cool that the thunder are this good defensively, but

1941
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:56,039
I don't think you look at any one of them

1942
01:31:56,079 --> 01:31:59,439
and say they've been the best most valuable defender in

1943
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:02,119
the league. Yeah, do you. I mean, I think Davis

1944
01:32:02,199 --> 01:32:02,840
might have had a case.

1945
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, if he had not gotten hurt,

1946
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:07,840
I feel and had gone on a run with Dallas,

1947
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:09,680
he would have been a name to throw in there

1948
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:10,239
for sure.

1949
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1950
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:16,000
Speaker 2: I mean, like you're not gonna get a Celtic like

1951
01:32:16,319 --> 01:32:19,600
Holiday is not there anymore. And that's again another committee thing.

1952
01:32:20,119 --> 01:32:22,119
Tatum's never gonna win Defensive Player of the Year, even

1953
01:32:22,119 --> 01:32:24,800
though he's so important to what they do, Like Giannis

1954
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,079
has not been the same as he used to. Yeah,

1955
01:32:27,119 --> 01:32:29,640
I mean, like there's all these like ja what if

1956
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,960
Jalen Suggs hadn't missed a bunch of time, Like maybe

1957
01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:34,239
maybe that would be the way you'd go. It's it's

1958
01:32:34,279 --> 01:32:36,680
gonna be Jackson or Mobile unless something crazy happens. I

1959
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:38,159
would say, now.

1960
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,880
Speaker 1: I actually have a bonus question for this. Do you

1961
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:45,720
think not the Wemby absence specifically, but just as a

1962
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:49,800
compounding catalyst, the NBA is gonna have to revisit this

1963
01:32:50,119 --> 01:32:52,439
eligibility thing at some point, right for awards, because we're

1964
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:55,119
now getting to the point where how many what is

1965
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:58,359
the pool of players from which we're going to be choosing,

1966
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:00,239
Like how deep is it actually gonna run? Let's let's

1967
01:33:00,239 --> 01:33:03,319
look at all NBA as the example, fifteen spots and

1968
01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:07,159
is there gonna be there's one hundred eligible players for it,

1969
01:33:07,279 --> 01:33:10,319
and like of those one hundred, like twenty five may

1970
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,159
like it just makes it almost like it dilutes maybe

1971
01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:15,760
that the significance of that. I'm not saying now Wemen's

1972
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,520
gonna finish with what sub fifty appearances this year, so

1973
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:20,560
he might not have made an All NBA team anyway,

1974
01:33:21,159 --> 01:33:24,520
but it just it does create some type of inflexibility here,

1975
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:29,279
that is it at a baseline level, are we in danger?

1976
01:33:29,319 --> 01:33:32,359
Of kind of watering down the significance of making an

1977
01:33:32,399 --> 01:33:34,520
All NBA team, let's say, because of the way that

1978
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,119
the eligibility requirements were.

1979
01:33:36,279 --> 01:33:38,279
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, isn't it fair to say the sixty

1980
01:33:38,279 --> 01:33:44,279
five game threshold was, if not totally driven by at

1981
01:33:44,359 --> 01:33:49,479
least like partially driven by the TV deal. Like we

1982
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:51,399
got to get our best players out there as often

1983
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:53,399
as possible, so the TV deal is bigger. Like that's

1984
01:33:53,399 --> 01:33:58,319
the thing, right, Like, so deal done, and like we

1985
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:02,760
can decide as a voting by if sixty two games

1986
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:06,439
at level X is better than seventy one at level

1987
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,960
why which because we've been doing it forever. Yeah, So like,

1988
01:34:10,359 --> 01:34:14,880
I yeah, I think the sixty five game thing feels arbitrary,

1989
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:20,439
feels not totally like it's it's just it's there for

1990
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:24,079
reasons other than we need it to determine who should

1991
01:34:24,119 --> 01:34:26,840
or shouldn't be eligible. So I think we could dispense

1992
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:29,319
with it and just get back to having to make

1993
01:34:29,359 --> 01:34:32,199
a tough decision, you know, and set our own cutoffs,

1994
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:35,159
like Okay, if you play fifty games or fewer, you

1995
01:34:35,279 --> 01:34:36,880
got to be like what level do you have to

1996
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,359
be at to to deserve this over someone that played

1997
01:34:39,359 --> 01:34:42,039
seventy five games like that that we can do that,

1998
01:34:42,159 --> 01:34:46,079
I think I think we're capable of doing that apples

1999
01:34:46,079 --> 01:34:48,199
to slightly different sized apples comparison.

2000
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,079
Speaker 1: And I will say just as this is not the

2001
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:53,399
end all be all, but like per EPM, currently of

2002
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:56,439
the top ten players in actual like as we're recording

2003
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:58,960
this EPM, there's a chance that four of them won't

2004
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:02,920
be eligible for awards. That's you know, I'm with you.

2005
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,319
I think that is probably time to get back and

2006
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:07,279
I agree with That's why that's been implemented. You got

2007
01:35:07,319 --> 01:35:09,159
anything else or are you ready to take us out

2008
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:09,359
of here?

2009
01:35:09,359 --> 01:35:11,319
Speaker 2: I think we covered every storyline there is to cover.

2010
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,319
Thanks everybody for listening, for watching, Please remember grate review,

2011
01:35:15,359 --> 01:35:18,439
subscribe wherever you're listening, check us out. If you're watching

2012
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:20,239
this on YouTube, leave us a comment. Let us know

2013
01:35:20,279 --> 01:35:23,159
what you think, what storylines we missed. Join our discord

2014
01:35:23,239 --> 01:35:26,520
links in the YouTube, YouTube and podcast description. It's going

2015
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:28,520
to cover it and close up always with shouts to

2016
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,479
Frank Milatina an apologies to Jared Allen