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Speaker 7: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 7: written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week,
Speaker 7: another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 7: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 8: Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupansky for the
Speaker 8: program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime
Speaker 8: history and the authors that are written about them. The
Speaker 8: case that captivated to Coachella Valley in San Francisco Bay
Speaker 8: Area for years. Author Sheryluder and her literary team Don
Speaker 8: Tarud Martinez and Kim Hansen, along with Tyson Wrenched, a
Speaker 8: former friend now victim of the Khan Men, unraveled the
Speaker 8: threads of a decade long crimes free filled with twists, turns,
Speaker 8: and shocking revelations. Filled with a cast of characters drawn
Speaker 8: from San Francisco's Castro District, The Dark Prince and the
Speaker 8: Boys take you from one con to the next until
Speaker 8: a single brazen act leads to murder. However, the story
Speaker 8: doesn't end there.
Speaker 6: There are the.
Speaker 8: However, the story doesn't end there. There are the dramatic
Speaker 8: courtroom trials that no one predicted and the shocking ending
Speaker 8: that no one expected, not even the judge. The book
Speaker 8: that we're featuring this evening is Until Someone Gets Hurt
Speaker 8: by Sherry Luder and Tyson Wrench, and my guest this
Speaker 8: evening is Tyson Wrench. Welcome to the program, and thank
Speaker 8: you for agreeing to this interview. Tyson Wrench.
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you very much for having me. I really
Speaker 6: appreciate it.
Speaker 8: I hope that's the pronunciation of your name. I should
Speaker 8: have checked beforehand.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's just like a wrench. There you go.
Speaker 8: Okay, now let's get to this wild story, and for
Speaker 8: our audience, I don't think it's explained in there so well,
Speaker 8: but you have we're friends with the people that are
Speaker 8: the main characters in this story, and then you end
Speaker 8: up being a victim, and so you can tell us
Speaker 8: how you became a victim. And this is the fascinating
Speaker 8: story and it's a unique perspective because of who you
Speaker 8: are and your relationship to the characters in this including
Speaker 8: a murderer. So let's get right to this incredible story
Speaker 8: Until Someone Gets Hurt And you're the co author along
Speaker 8: with Sherry Luter. Now let's start off with are me.
Speaker 6: Go ahead?
Speaker 8: And now I wanted to start our interview basically the
Speaker 8: same way you unfold the relationships in this book. Because
Speaker 8: there's a lot of characters and it's a little it's
Speaker 8: fairly complex compared to some of the stories that we
Speaker 8: deal with, it's really best to keep this focus. And
Speaker 8: we'll start our interview with how you start your book
Speaker 8: and tell us where you are on March fifth, two
Speaker 8: thousand and seven, and under what circumstances you'd gone on
Speaker 8: a vacation. Tell us basically that and maybe even before that,
Speaker 8: give us your background and at that time, who were
Speaker 8: you at that time, what was your profession, what was
Speaker 8: your status, and then explain what happened on March fifth
Speaker 8: and unfold this story for our audience.
Speaker 6: Sure, sure, well, I was raised UH in the Silicon
Speaker 6: Valley and and obviously started my career there in the
Speaker 6: UH in the computer industry and rode the dot com boom,
Speaker 6: and UH just had the had pretty good success with
Speaker 6: with everything I did and UH in that in that process,
Speaker 6: I had moved to San Francisco and just had a
Speaker 6: big circle of friends. And within that circle of friends
Speaker 6: was a was a man named Danny Garcia, and he
Speaker 6: and I had become a grateful for five years. My
Speaker 6: company transferred me to Europe. I moved to uh Germany
Speaker 6: and I was there for a couple of years before
Speaker 6: the dot com boom sort of came to an end,
Speaker 6: if you will, and they all needed to downsize, and
Speaker 6: I was given a fantastic parachute out of there. And
Speaker 6: of course I first person I called was as that
Speaker 6: was Danny, and I said, I'm coming back to the
Speaker 6: US and let's go have a good time, because that's
Speaker 6: uh he was that he was that friend.
Speaker 8: Okay, now tell us about your vacation. Uh you you've
Speaker 8: just been terminated by your company. But like you say,
Speaker 8: it's not it's not so full. You you did really
Speaker 8: really well. You were you were You want to come
Speaker 8: back to the States anyway, or at least you're comfortable
Speaker 8: with coming back to the States. And you got a
Speaker 8: lot of money, like you say, seven figure parachutes. So
Speaker 8: now tell us about this Argentina, Argentina and Brazil, this
Speaker 8: South American vacation, and tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 8: Why you why you wanted to go there?
Speaker 9: And tell us I had had some Germans get an
Speaker 9: amazing amount of vacation normally done with some of my
Speaker 9: UH friends and co workers. That's to South America for
Speaker 9: a month on a trip and included a cruise, and
Speaker 9: the end of the cruise we ended up from one
Speaker 9: side rio.
Speaker 6: We got to Reha. I went online and decided to
Speaker 6: go pay for some of my credit carvers. So he
Speaker 6: spent this and make it was all done, and uh,
Speaker 6: I get to the internet day, I go on lot
Speaker 6: and and all of my bank accounts are now empty.
Speaker 6: And my first thought was really that maybe because I
Speaker 6: was in Brazil, you know, the huge banks blocked it
Speaker 6: and and this was in denial. And uh, my friend said,
Speaker 6: but that doesn't happen. Back to the theay and and
Speaker 6: and looked further, and I further and enough, Uh, you know,
Speaker 6: four thousand dollars a day had been withdrawn from my accounts. Uh.
Speaker 6: And I had a three hundred dollars limits, so that
Speaker 6: was even more confusing. Contacted the bank and they said
Speaker 6: that that when I was telling them didn't make sense,
Speaker 6: and don't do uh not twenty but I'm coming home.
Speaker 6: I just knew something wasn't right, and uh, I did that.
Speaker 6: The airline was very accommodating because they didn't have any money,
Speaker 6: and so I hadn't gotten uh home uh lifter. They
Speaker 6: just someone had moved into my house and there stuff
Speaker 6: with the bedroom. There was none of it that done
Speaker 6: through my room in time.
Speaker 8: I've got to interrupt you, tyson. We have a major
Speaker 8: connection problem here. That's this is why basically I unless
Speaker 8: this is the wackiest uh landline phone ever. It's almost
Speaker 8: incomprehensible the conversation, and so I know, yeah, so it's
Speaker 8: uh call back in. Uh maybe we try to just
Speaker 8: call back in and then yes, if it doesn't clear,
Speaker 8: then we'll have to reschedule the the interview because we
Speaker 8: really can't. It's incomprehensible. So, uh why don't you recall
Speaker 8: back in and see if we can we can improve
Speaker 8: the clarity for the for those that are listening. So
Speaker 8: we'll do that. Go ahead and call back in and
Speaker 8: uh entertaine the audience with my Okay, thanks. I apologize
Speaker 8: that for that technical difficulty. I do stress and a
Speaker 8: lot of people do not have access to landline but
Speaker 8: landline phone. Landline phones are really far superior to cell
Speaker 8: phones in terms of especially one thing and if you
Speaker 8: hear this in interviews. You can see what the problem
Speaker 8: is as well, is that it seems to be a
Speaker 8: pile up. There'll be an interference in the conversation back
Speaker 8: and forth, normal back and forth conversation, and so there's
Speaker 8: a little bit of a delay, and that's one of
Speaker 8: the problems. And it's just an in better sound quality.
Speaker 8: Now we have Tyson Wrench back on and we'll see
Speaker 8: if this improves. I'm really hoping, so good evening, Tyler
Speaker 8: our Tyson, pardon me, yes, this is better? Yes, I
Speaker 8: think so. Okay, sorry, let's let's go. Let's go back
Speaker 8: a little bit because I think the audience would have
Speaker 8: a hard time understanding. You are on this trip, you
Speaker 8: don't have internet internet access on for a couple of
Speaker 8: weeks or so, or ten days or so. You can
Speaker 8: correct me on that you don't have internet access. You
Speaker 8: can't check your bank account. When you do check your
Speaker 8: bank account, you see that these accounts are either empty
Speaker 8: or a great amount of money is missing. And maybe
Speaker 8: you can tell us how much money you were looking
Speaker 8: at missing. You were said you were initially in denial
Speaker 8: about that, but pick up on the story back at
Speaker 8: that those details.
Speaker 6: Please, yeah, yeah, so I had gone online and I
Speaker 6: had I had a three hundred dollars withdrawal limit on
Speaker 6: my accounts. Now, granted, my my severance package was still
Speaker 6: over in Europe hadn't actually been paid out on it yet,
Speaker 6: but the money that I had just saved in the US,
Speaker 6: and it was, you know, four thousand a day for
Speaker 6: for almost three weeks that they had pulled out. So
Speaker 6: it was a very large amount of money. And the
Speaker 6: airline was kind enough to let me go home and
Speaker 6: announced and just as I said, well, I got home,
Speaker 6: I discovered that someone had moved into my house and
Speaker 6: that was that was unnerving.
Speaker 8: And who was this person?
Speaker 6: So after digging through my bedroom and looking at the
Speaker 6: clothes and the luggage tags, I discovered that it was
Speaker 6: in fact my best friend of five years, who turned
Speaker 6: out to not be who he said he or was.
Speaker 8: Now this is so, Danny Garcia, your friend of five
Speaker 8: years while you were gone, had lock Stock and Barrel
Speaker 8: moved into your place.
Speaker 6: He's not only moved into my place, but he actually
Speaker 6: had people over to the house pretending to be me.
Speaker 6: I learned through through tracking using the GPS in my
Speaker 6: car that backtracked and I found people who he had
Speaker 6: gone to their homes and even showed I d with
Speaker 6: his photo and my name and my middle name happens
Speaker 6: to be Daniel, So he just told people that he
Speaker 6: was he goes by his middle name, and he was
Speaker 6: had people over met the neighbors, and I travel a
Speaker 6: lot for work, so I didn't really know my neighbors.
Speaker 6: I can tell you now that I know my neighbors
Speaker 6: really well. So the but the shot that that he
Speaker 6: was everything he had told me throughout our time together
Speaker 6: was was a lie. From how he how he made
Speaker 6: his money, the people that he hung out with, all
Speaker 6: of his stories. But then he went so far as
Speaker 6: to then begin to isolate me from all of our friends.
Speaker 6: So again we were part of a big circle of friends.
Speaker 6: I of course reached out to them all to tell
Speaker 6: them and warn them, but he had beat me to it,
Speaker 6: and the story went that I was in South America
Speaker 6: because I was a major drug dealer. That how else
Speaker 6: would a thirty one year old have a big house
Speaker 6: in San Francisco, and and you know all all the
Speaker 6: things I had, And it made clear sense to everybody
Speaker 6: that that by talking to me, they would be getting
Speaker 6: involved in some sort of DA investigation. And so I
Speaker 6: had to clear my name somehow, and that came through
Speaker 6: the through the Wells Fargo Bank investigation team, where I
Speaker 6: got my hands on a surveillance photo of him with
Speaker 6: drawing money from my accounts, and that is what cleared
Speaker 6: my name. But that didn't The problem was that came
Speaker 6: after that was the fact that the the police wouldn't
Speaker 6: take a report for my case because the bank gave
Speaker 6: me my money back, and therefore the bank was the
Speaker 6: victim and not me. And because of that that was
Speaker 6: I was left just hanging. There was nothing I could do,
Speaker 6: and the bank said, you know, why why do you
Speaker 6: keep coming back? I kept I'm thinking, why didn't you
Speaker 6: arrest them? If if I went into your branch next
Speaker 6: door with a note that said give me all your
Speaker 6: money and I got five hundred dollars, you'd have a
Speaker 6: swat team banging down my door in ten minutes. And
Speaker 6: yet these guys got tens of thousands of dollars from you,
Speaker 6: and you don't care. And finally a police detective said
Speaker 6: to me, he said, we have so many cases of
Speaker 6: fraud like this that our manpower is only limited to
Speaker 6: cases where people are hurt. So until someone gets hurt,
Speaker 6: they're going to continue to get away with it. And
Speaker 6: that's how we came up with that. That's how we
Speaker 6: came up with the name for the book.
Speaker 8: Okay, now we've got to go back a little bit,
Speaker 8: because you opened the book with the introduction on where
Speaker 8: you met Danny Garcia and in the circumstances under which
Speaker 8: you did meet him. He invited you to a protest
Speaker 8: shortly after meeting each other, and then introduced you to attorneys,
Speaker 8: and I'll get you to pronounce the attorney's name, David Ye.
Speaker 6: I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 8: So tell us about the invite, tell us about Danny
Speaker 8: Garcia's You said everything he told the lie, the big
Speaker 8: huge con. I mean, this is a story of con
Speaker 8: men and talking about serious money with some serious people,
Speaker 8: and then that in conning a lifetime of grifting. So
Speaker 8: let's go back to how you met, where you Danny
Speaker 8: Garcia in the protest, and who you met at the protest,
Speaker 8: and the story that was told and established in your
Speaker 8: mind at that time.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So where Danny had sort of I guess you
Speaker 6: could say, hooked me in. Was he mentioned to me
Speaker 6: that several years back that he had been molested by
Speaker 6: a very wealthy man in San Francisco by the name
Speaker 6: of Thomas White, and that he was suing him, and
Speaker 6: there was a protest coming in, and then, you know,
Speaker 6: I felt sorry for the guy. I mean, it's a
Speaker 6: horrible thing that I think could happen. That he claimed
Speaker 6: you'd been drugged, and so that's that's sort of how
Speaker 6: I I don't know, you just sort of feel bad
Speaker 6: for somebody, and they seemed like a nice person, and
Speaker 6: so I went there to support him, and and there
Speaker 6: was his lawyer, a man by the name of David
Speaker 6: rep Logo. And the protest was basically the fact that
Speaker 6: one of the city supervisors uh domestic partners was the
Speaker 6: lawyer for Thomas White, and that this particular lawyer was
Speaker 6: basically making her money by by defending a child molester.
Speaker 6: People magazine had done a story on him, The San
Speaker 6: Francisco Chronicle had done a two Sunday story on him.
Speaker 6: So everything that he was telling me was in press
Speaker 6: and print, and it was it was purely believable. And
Speaker 6: then following that case, they then filed a case down
Speaker 6: in Mexico. Thomas White was big into philanthropy and would
Speaker 6: was building a school for underprivileged children, and twenty two
Speaker 6: boys came forward and stated that Thomas White had in
Speaker 6: fact molested them, drug them and molested them. And Thomas
Speaker 6: White was then sent to jail and the case began
Speaker 6: to where they were going to get about a million
Speaker 6: dollars a kid. And of course, you know the there
Speaker 6: was never even a trial. And believe it or not,
Speaker 6: Thomas White is still in jail. I just visited him
Speaker 6: about three weeks ago and he's still there. And the
Speaker 6: twenty two boys had come forward, they were all paid
Speaker 6: to say it. The lawyer in Mexico who brought the
Speaker 6: case to court was arrested and is actually in the
Speaker 6: same jail. Now. It's just a tragic and sad story
Speaker 6: for this man who at once, at one point had
Speaker 6: everything and these guys just took it from him.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we're talking of a very wealthy man. We're talking
Speaker 8: about billionaire right.
Speaker 6: In the one hundreds of millionaire, I would say.
Speaker 8: Okay, okay, And the and the attorney was Carol Migdan
Speaker 8: right and interest and in the protest. What I found
Speaker 8: interesting in your book was the when you talk about
Speaker 8: the the placards that were at that protest were Carol
Speaker 8: Magdan's family earns thousands of dollars protecting a child rapist.
Speaker 8: I mean, that's a pretty provocative placard.
Speaker 6: Really Yeah. I picked up the attention of several of
Speaker 6: the newspapers, including the Berry Reporter, And as a result
Speaker 6: of that, I learned just in this last trip that
Speaker 6: that Carol Mgdan's partner then basically stopped representing Tom and
Speaker 6: left him, which left him lawyerless in Mexico at the time,
Speaker 6: and so he has to get a new legal team.
Speaker 6: So then they proceeded to actually hack into his stock accounts.
Speaker 6: They sold the stock, they transferred the stock money to themselves,
Speaker 6: and uh and and and cashed out the money. When
Speaker 6: the ft I was called in the story that I
Speaker 6: was told is that they looked at it and said, well,
Speaker 6: you know, he's a he's a child blister. He gets
Speaker 6: what he deserves and and we have other things to
Speaker 6: work on. So you can almost call it the perfect
Speaker 6: time mm hmmm.
Speaker 8: And this, this this gentleman hacker was this guy they
Speaker 8: called Brain and he was a hacker, and he was
Speaker 8: a friend at Garcia, right Alec.
Speaker 6: And he actually has a warrant of Mexico. UH listed
Speaker 6: him as one of the uh defendants in this in
Speaker 6: this extortion case that they just filed last month.
Speaker 8: Now tell us about the I thought interesting too, is
Speaker 8: uh the the elaborate scam with the art dealing the
Speaker 8: art dealer. Yes, the famous painting that they said, geez,
Speaker 8: you know, the Nazis are pretty embarrassed by this and
Speaker 8: the uh uh you know Scottish museum or a major
Speaker 8: art gallery in Scotland is you know, wants to sell
Speaker 8: it and it's about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was another brilliant con. They had befriended a
Speaker 6: an art dealer who had a client. It was a
Speaker 6: Silicon Valley CFO executive and he had said that he
Speaker 6: wanted this particular tangy painting. He did the research it
Speaker 6: was it wasn't in the gallery where they said it was.
Speaker 6: Had he done a deeper research, he would have discovered
Speaker 6: that it wasn't for sale. But this was his art dealer.
Speaker 6: This is the guy he's bought or he's bought millions
Speaker 6: of dollars of paintings from in the past, so you know,
Speaker 6: why would he lie and uh? But they were conning
Speaker 6: the art dealer as well, and as soon as he
Speaker 6: transferred four hundred thousand dollars in escrow to verify they
Speaker 6: were going to shift the painting over and office authenticated,
Speaker 6: and it never showed up, and the CFO was not
Speaker 6: happy and began to call. And the art dealer realized
Speaker 6: that after he had transferred all four hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 6: to these con men, that he had been taken. And
Speaker 6: it turns out that they all went to Las Vegas
Speaker 6: right here and blew all the money at the Bilagio
Speaker 6: And so there was Las Vegas. I ended up getting
Speaker 6: the tax forms for all the greater than twelve hundred
Speaker 6: dollars wins that they had when they were playing one
Speaker 6: hundred dollars slot machines.
Speaker 8: Yeah, incredible amount of money they spent in a few.
Speaker 6: Days, right, amazing, Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: And what was their next course of business after that?
Speaker 8: After they lose through that money?
Speaker 6: So the you know, they had, they had a couple
Speaker 6: of other scams going. They very much assembly lined them.
Speaker 6: They were almost all going at the same time at
Speaker 6: some point. But there was a Japanese tourist that Kushall
Speaker 6: and I should maybe just elaborate a little bit on
Speaker 6: Koushaw Marula.
Speaker 8: He was introduced.
Speaker 6: He was, yeah, he was a Nepalese immigrants. He came
Speaker 6: on a student visa. He basically came and told everybody
Speaker 6: that he was a prince. He was the prince of Nepal,
Speaker 6: and he had everybody fool He had a British accent,
Speaker 6: he dressed well, he was very charming, very royal in
Speaker 6: his mannerisms. It was believable. And and so in that
Speaker 6: process he had actually actually conned the New College of
Speaker 6: San Francisco into believing that that that he was a
Speaker 6: prince and that his family was going to donate a
Speaker 6: lot of money to the college. And you know, yeah,
Speaker 6: they butted that million dollars and spent it, and suddenly
Speaker 6: the money didn't show up, and after thirty seven years,
Speaker 6: the New College of San Francisco had to close its doors.
Speaker 6: But yet, s yet Kushan remained in the country unexpired
Speaker 6: student visa now and so but he managed to travel
Speaker 6: around and he went to Hawaii met this Japanese tourist
Speaker 6: who expressed a desire to have a visa to live
Speaker 6: in the US. And Kushall had said, Hey, if you
Speaker 6: invest in real estate, then I can get you your visa.
Speaker 6: And so she opened an account at the Bank of Hawaii.
Speaker 6: She transferred five hundred thousand dollars from her account in Japan,
Speaker 6: and Kushal had taken you know, when you open a
Speaker 6: new account and they give you those those temporary checks.
Speaker 6: So Shaw managed to tear a few of those out
Speaker 6: while she wasn't looking, and then wrote him out five
Speaker 6: hundred thousand dollars dish in in checks, which he transferred
Speaker 6: to his Bank of Hawaii accounts at the same bank.
Speaker 6: So the lady gets wind of it, and she and
Speaker 6: she calls in and the and the bank basically sticks
Speaker 6: up for Kushal and says, no, he's a good guy.
Speaker 6: His parents are diplomats. You know, surely there's a mistake.
Speaker 6: And she's begging for them to call the police and
Speaker 6: and they wouldn't. So there's that case is actually still
Speaker 6: in disuse. But again, here's a woman who was out
Speaker 6: five hundred thousand dollars and now Kushal is living the
Speaker 6: life along live with Danny and uh and David and
Speaker 6: they are they are now a good grifter team that
Speaker 6: is out on the rampage.
Speaker 8: And what's the next stop in next scam and victim?
Speaker 6: Yes, So you know, the there was a a man
Speaker 6: in Marine County. They had befriended and befriended him separately.
Speaker 6: Danny got to know him well. Kushall had actually stayed
Speaker 6: at his house. Well, Danny knew that this man had
Speaker 6: quite a bit of jewelry in his house, three hundred
Speaker 6: thousand dollars worth, And when Kushal had stayed there, Kushall
Speaker 6: stole it. And in a weird case, and I'm not
Speaker 6: exactly sure you know why this happened, but Danny turned
Speaker 6: kusha All in and Kushall was arrested for the jewelry
Speaker 6: theft and then immediately bailed out by David Repogel. Just
Speaker 6: a weird twist that I still can't explain. And but
Speaker 6: what happened was I had gotten a phone call from
Speaker 6: a friend of mine who said, Hey, you know, my
Speaker 6: roommate is going to Hawaii tomorrow with Danny, and you
Speaker 6: had mentioned he's a bad guy and do you have
Speaker 6: any proof? So I discovered this jewelry heist, and I
Speaker 6: contacted the victim and Marine County. He proceeded to tell
Speaker 6: me what happened. I told him my story, and I
Speaker 6: asked if he knew where Danny was, and he said
Speaker 6: that Danny had been spending a lot of time in
Speaker 6: Palm Springs and that a friend of his there had
Speaker 6: gone missing. And something didn't sit right with me when
Speaker 6: he told me that, and I began a search and
Speaker 6: discovered that a man named Cliff Lambert, seventy four years
Speaker 6: old in the Lost Thomas neighborhood of Palm Springs, had
Speaker 6: gone missing in December of two thousand and eight. And
Speaker 6: this is now February of two thousand and nine, and
Speaker 6: there's been nothing done. It's still a missing person case. Well,
Speaker 6: you know how you go online and you see stories
Speaker 6: and news articles, and then people can leave the comments
Speaker 6: under the blog section, and they usually have nothing to
Speaker 6: do with the article. They're almost comical when you read them.
Speaker 6: But there was one in particular that said, the last
Speaker 6: person I saw him with was a very well dressed
Speaker 6: Indian mail with a British accent, which describes to shawl
Speaker 6: to a t. And so I logged on, I created
Speaker 6: a fake anonymous name, and I left a posting and
Speaker 6: I said that the people you were looking for are
Speaker 6: Danny Garcia, David Refugel, and Kushaw and the Rula, the
Speaker 6: man you described in your response, and immediately following that
Speaker 6: somebody had posted a photo. It was the mugshot photo
Speaker 6: koushawl from his jewelry heist, and that was turned out
Speaker 6: I was a private investigator who was following the case,
Speaker 6: and about two hours later, both my posting and the
Speaker 6: mugshot posting were deleted from the website. I contacted the
Speaker 6: website administrator and she wrote back to me that they
Speaker 6: have threatened to shut down the entire website that was
Speaker 6: devoted to missing people from around the world. And then
Speaker 6: I knew something was definitely yet. So I called the
Speaker 6: Palm Springs Police Department and then the story unravels from there.
Speaker 6: The the detective I told him my story, Detective Browning
Speaker 6: was his name, and he was very kind and he
Speaker 6: just said, you know, Tyson, you need to come down here.
Speaker 6: We need to talk. And I was very excited. I thought, Wow,
Speaker 6: you know, there's something. Finally, somebody's gonna do something. And
Speaker 6: I had no idea what I was getting into. But
Speaker 6: as I drove down and I took everything that they
Speaker 6: had left in my house from two years ago and
Speaker 6: I brought it to them. We had an interview with
Speaker 6: another detective and I had my police reports that I'd
Speaker 6: finally gotten after you know, being persistent enough, and and
Speaker 6: they thanked me, and I left and I just was
Speaker 6: sort of left, like, well, now what. And then a
Speaker 6: week later they contacted me and they wanted to to
Speaker 6: They basically thanked me for coming in and they wanted
Speaker 6: to let me know that they had gone out and
Speaker 6: arrested everyone. And they've amended the case now to a
Speaker 6: murder case. And the the murder and the story that
Speaker 6: follows is one that I don't I don't know that
Speaker 6: California has seen even in its in its court cases.
Speaker 6: But they after they had murdered Cliff Lambert, they had
Speaker 6: actually sold his house, uh and emptied the accounts very
Speaker 6: much in the same way, same pattern that they did
Speaker 6: to me and the and the district attorney investigator said
Speaker 6: that I was very very lucky that I came home
Speaker 6: early from my trip because mister Lambert did bot. He
Speaker 6: came home on time, and they had they had everything,
Speaker 6: everything was planned out for him.
Speaker 8: Right, So you do really believe even though that I
Speaker 8: mean that it sounds a good possibility given what they
Speaker 8: did later, But do you think they really that Danny
Speaker 8: and the and the trio would have killed you and
Speaker 8: at that point, or you have any kind of explanation
Speaker 8: why they graduated to murder if they are really essentially
Speaker 8: grifters con men.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's you know that the the general consensus
Speaker 6: is that that was a great possibility. You know, we
Speaker 6: learned from from the text messages that they did hire
Speaker 6: somebody for he was thirty thousand dollars to to they
Speaker 6: hired a hit on me. But fortunately they owed that guy.
Speaker 6: They owed that guy money anyhow, and so he didn't
Speaker 6: he didn't do it, obviously, he took the money, and
Speaker 6: so it was you know, it was just you know,
Speaker 6: criminals against criminals, and you know, no no honor amongst these,
Speaker 6: I guess, but uh, the the the manner in which
Speaker 6: they murdered him, it was horrific murder. They had hired
Speaker 6: a couple of hitmen, and one of the hitmen turned
Speaker 6: state's evidence and actually told us everything. So they told
Speaker 6: the state everything, And I will.
Speaker 8: Tell us about go ahead, I'd like unless you have
Speaker 8: some reservations, I'd like you to tell us about the
Speaker 8: murder and the plot to murder and what exactly happened
Speaker 8: and why tell us about that?
Speaker 6: Sure? So I guess from what from what we understand, uh,
Speaker 6: is that Cliff Lambert had met Danny on.
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Speaker 6: Craiglist and Cliff, you know, was a seventy four year
Speaker 6: old man. He liked younger men and what a wally
Speaker 6: fly them in or have them come over and stay
Speaker 6: for the weekend and then just to He just liked
Speaker 6: the company. You know. His his good friends were younger men,
Speaker 6: the ones who reported him missing really nice guys. And
Speaker 6: but Danny, in the process of staying at his house,
Speaker 6: managed to gather all kinds of information on him and
Speaker 6: even access to his computer. You know, Danny was very
Speaker 6: good with a computer. Cliff was seventy four, you know.
Speaker 6: He left his passwords all written out, you know, nothing
Speaker 6: nothing really secure, but nothing he ever thought he'd probably
Speaker 6: had to worry about. And Danny had everything, you know,
Speaker 6: when they did the forensics on his phone. He had
Speaker 6: under his contacts where you and I would have, you know,
Speaker 6: maybe our names or phone numbers, our address, and our birthday.
Speaker 6: He had on top of that his security number, his
Speaker 6: credit card numbers, where he went to college when he graduated,
Speaker 6: his security alarm code, the everything he could never want
Speaker 6: to know about somebody. He had it in his contact,
Speaker 6: and so as they were, they tried to murder him twice.
Speaker 6: They actually hired that two guys. They hired a bartender
Speaker 6: from San Francisco and hired him for thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 6: He managed to talk to his roommate into joining and
Speaker 6: they went down to Palm Springs and broke into his
Speaker 6: garage and waited for him to come home. They had
Speaker 6: no murder weapons when they entered. They grabbed some pruning
Speaker 6: shears and a screwdriver, and one waited in the rafters
Speaker 6: and one waited behind his other car. And they he
Speaker 6: came home, and they both chickened out, and he went
Speaker 6: from his house, went from his car right into his house,
Speaker 6: not knowing that he almost met his faith. Well, Koushaal,
Speaker 6: who had hired him hired them, was incensed. He was
Speaker 6: he was outraged. Well. One of the things that Danny
Speaker 6: had learned in the UH in spending time with Cliff
Speaker 6: is that he was in a dispute over a will,
Speaker 6: and the will was a New York case. So Kushaw
Speaker 6: went out and got a pay as you go cell
Speaker 6: phone that had a a New York area code. He
Speaker 6: called Cliff and UH and told him that he was
Speaker 6: a lawyer and that he had come to a resolution
Speaker 6: with the will and that Cliff was going to be
Speaker 6: a wealthy man, and he was coming down to sign
Speaker 6: the paperwork, and as Kushawl shows up and he uh
Speaker 6: they had they had actually gone ahead and contacted the
Speaker 6: alarm company claiming that the back door censor was faulty
Speaker 6: and kept calling the police, so please turn it off,
Speaker 6: And so the alarm company remotely disabled the rear door alarm,
Speaker 6: and as Koushal takes the tour of the house, he
Speaker 6: unlocked the back door and the two hitmen, Miguel Bustamante
Speaker 6: and Craig McCarthy both enter into the kitchen again unarmed,
Speaker 6: and Cliff hears some commotion and comes into his kitchen
Speaker 6: and he he sees McCarthy McCarthy bear hugs him and
Speaker 6: then he you know, he's what are you guys doing here?
Speaker 6: What are you doing in my house? And Bustamante grabbed
Speaker 6: like a pairing knife from the kitchen block and McCarthy
Speaker 6: pushed him away, and Bustamante then stound him in the
Speaker 6: back of the neck, just below the skull, and the
Speaker 6: blade actually broke in his vertebrae and he went down.
Speaker 6: Then bost Monty grabbed a couple more knives out of
Speaker 6: the kitchen block and just proceeded to sort of left right,
Speaker 6: left right, and Crisp basically laid there and as as
Speaker 6: he was breathing his last breath gurgling, Kushan enters the
Speaker 6: room and begins to order them to grab his rings,
Speaker 6: his watch, his wallet, all of the basically as the
Speaker 6: district attorney said, they picked him like vultures. As he
Speaker 6: later he lay the dying, and they never found the body.
Speaker 6: They wrapped up the body in sheets. They claimed they
Speaker 6: have buried it somewhere in the town of Fontana off
Speaker 6: of the Interstate ten. When they went out to go
Speaker 6: where the body was supposed to be, it was no
Speaker 6: longer there and the body was never found.
Speaker 8: Now, how did they get around to when they make
Speaker 8: the arrests? How did the police, like this is interesting,
Speaker 8: How did the least get around to getting a person
Speaker 8: that obviously somebody's revealed this intimate information and usually it's
Speaker 8: not all three people simultaneously at once. So when they
Speaker 8: made the arrest, how do they get the information that
Speaker 8: we just mentioned right now?
Speaker 6: Right? So the the murder was actually re enacted by
Speaker 6: Craig McCarthy. He was a He had just gotten out
Speaker 6: of the US Marines and he felt an extreme amount
Speaker 6: of remorse. He in fact, when they when when McCarthy
Speaker 6: gave him his share of the of the the money
Speaker 6: for the job, he supposedly refused it. And then while
Speaker 6: he was in jail, he happened to talk to his cellmate,
Speaker 6: and his cellmate was, uh, sort of, I guess you'd
Speaker 6: call the prison rat. He was the tank bob. Yeah,
Speaker 6: So he uh used that information, went to the warden
Speaker 6: and said, hey, I got some information, and using it
Speaker 6: as a basically a token for him to maybe get
Speaker 6: a lighter sentence or get a strike removed or something,
Speaker 6: then proceeded to befriend McCarthy and and tell him that
Speaker 6: he would be able to get McCarthy out of this.
Speaker 6: And so McCarthy drew a map, and of course they
Speaker 6: turned that in and then through the process of charging
Speaker 6: them with murder, they went the strict attorney decided to
Speaker 6: go with a life without charge, and they gave McCarthy
Speaker 6: the option to turn state's evidence in exchange for twenty
Speaker 6: five years, and so he actually re enacted the entire
Speaker 6: murder in the house, and that was that was videotaped.
Speaker 6: So that's that's how we know from the court hearings
Speaker 6: and so forth of exactly what happened.
Speaker 8: How far did he go into re enactments? Was it
Speaker 8: the actual did they get him to do the stabbing?
Speaker 8: I guess this is this is a slam dunk when
Speaker 8: you get a prosecutor to do some half something like this,
Speaker 8: but tell us about the extent of the reenactment.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was well, and because because McCarthy wasn't
Speaker 6: the one who did the stabbing, he just sort of
Speaker 6: guided them through. You know, he was using the other
Speaker 6: other people who were there as as sort of a
Speaker 6: mannequins or not mannequans, but just as examples of what
Speaker 6: went down. And it was it was. It was just clear.
Speaker 6: The other the other bit of evidence that sunk them
Speaker 6: was their text messages. There were over thirty one thousand
Speaker 6: text messages before, during, and after the murder. And the
Speaker 6: one thing that a lot of people don't know is
Speaker 6: that while your text messages are recorded, which we all
Speaker 6: know saved on a server somewhere, your geographical location when
Speaker 6: you send or received them is also recorded, and the
Speaker 6: prosecution was able to put together a map of the
Speaker 6: detailed going down from the they went down from from
Speaker 6: San Francisco to Palm Springs and then the murder happened,
Speaker 6: and then they went back and then went back down
Speaker 6: to MTV accounts and then and then sell his house
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 8: Now, people with money and people in dire straits, whether
Speaker 8: they have or people who have friends with money, get representation.
Speaker 8: It helps them at least even though you know, so,
Speaker 8: what kind of representation do these people eventually get? What
Speaker 8: kind of any tell us about kind of the names,
Speaker 8: the kind of representation they got.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, in the case of of of Danny Garcia
Speaker 6: and Kashawl and Narula, their lawyers were Danny Garcia and
Speaker 6: Kushawl and Rula, they chose to represent themselves. And uh
Speaker 6: uh and in which you you know, there's that that
Speaker 6: famous saying the client that has a lawyer is actually
Speaker 6: the lawyer as a client for a fool or something
Speaker 6: like that, And you think that that would be a
Speaker 6: stupid move. And yet we know that about halfway through
Speaker 6: the trial they had actually gotten the State of California
Speaker 6: to give them over six hundred thousand dollars and we
Speaker 6: think at the end of the trial it was close
Speaker 6: to a million dollars in support for their their defense investigators,
Speaker 6: their advisors. They were they got brand new math book
Speaker 6: pros to work at their case on because the computer
Speaker 6: in the jail was too slow. They were also had
Speaker 6: Starbucks delivered in court every day. Oh thanks, thanks, thanks
Speaker 6: to the California taxpayer. So it is it's just mind boggling.
Speaker 6: And the UH Attorney General for the State of California,
Speaker 6: Kamala Harris, even was quoted as saying that, you know
Speaker 6: that the theatrics and the complexity of these cons and
Speaker 6: and their and and their and their crimes are are
Speaker 6: beyond any Hollywood script. And uh, it's true. It's just
Speaker 6: everything about these guys, how they continued to get away
Speaker 6: with it, and then even when they got caught, they
Speaker 6: continued to proceed with their cons and and just getting
Speaker 6: everything given to them. It's just amazing, you know. They
Speaker 6: even Danny filed a civil suit against the district attorney
Speaker 6: who was prosecuting him, Lisa Di Maria, and she Vanny
Speaker 6: claimed that she had violated his civil rights by listening
Speaker 6: to his privileged phone calls, and UH you get two
Speaker 6: kinds of privileged phone calls in jail, and that's between
Speaker 6: you and your lawyer and you and your spiritual guide. Well,
Speaker 6: the DA had listened to a call between Danny and
Speaker 6: his mother. Well, his mother had gone and gotten her
Speaker 6: reverendships and has now become Danny's spiritual advisor. Now, the
Speaker 6: case was eventually thrown out because there's a code that
Speaker 6: you punch in and if you were, if Danny was
Speaker 6: really a lawyer, he would have known that. That's how
Speaker 6: you stopped the DA from listening to your call. So
Speaker 6: the case was dismissed as Danny's pure ignorance. But nonetheless,
Speaker 6: again everything he could do to distract the state and
Speaker 6: the prosecution, they were just trying to trip up anywhere
Speaker 6: they can. The number of there were over one hundred
Speaker 6: pre trial hearings, just three and a half years that
Speaker 6: it took, which is just far longer than it ever should.
Speaker 8: Have right right now, it's really testament of their like
Speaker 8: you say, again, Starbucks delivered and being able to get
Speaker 8: that kind of money for this kind of case. I
Speaker 8: mean they they've given death penalty cases a whole lot
Speaker 8: less money than that, you know, for the whole team,
Speaker 8: and so it is really testament of their their abilities
Speaker 8: as con con in and with the other. The other
Speaker 8: one we didn't mention too, is that the the woman
Speaker 8: from Japan. Yeah, the Japanese woman. She caught him stealing,
Speaker 8: and yet he still CONTs some more money out of her.
Speaker 8: Isn't that what you have in the book?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah it is. It's unbelievable. But with with Kushaal's ability,
Speaker 6: and he even is quoted in one of his texts
Speaker 6: saying that even after I've conned someone, I can con
Speaker 6: them again. And uh he did. He did that with
Speaker 6: the with the Magumi, and that after he had taken
Speaker 6: her money, he claimed that he he was sorry and
Speaker 6: that he needs it because his family had been kidnapped.
Speaker 6: The sister was kidnapped in the Pall and they needed
Speaker 6: the money for ransom. But of course his family was royalty,
Speaker 6: and that she would get that money back, that he
Speaker 6: just needed to borrow it. And sure enough he gave
Speaker 6: her a check for eight hundred and something thousand dollars,
Speaker 6: which she deposited, and then Kushall had convinced her that
Speaker 6: now she was in danger, and then he needed another
Speaker 6: forty thousand dollars to get her that they found out
Speaker 6: that she was involved, and so sure enough, she cuts
Speaker 6: them another forty one thousand dollars check and three days later,
Speaker 6: his eight hundred thousand dollar check bounces, so she's out
Speaker 6: even more money. I mean, it's just it's mind boggling.
Speaker 6: I feel bad that she that she fell for, but
Speaker 6: he's that convincing.
Speaker 8: Now, one thing we didn't talk about is that you
Speaker 8: did a fair amount of work on your own to
Speaker 8: be able to bring these people to justice. You you
Speaker 8: were pretty persistent, and you did have you do have
Speaker 8: a background in a private investigation yourself. Tell us just
Speaker 8: a little bit about how much of a I guess
Speaker 8: an ordeal it was for you to re establish yourself
Speaker 8: and straighten things out and also get this validation that
Speaker 8: you were right all along, and that tell us a
Speaker 8: little bit about that story.
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I had. I had worked to work my
Speaker 6: way through college with a private investigation firm that was
Speaker 6: a one collar crime investigation, so a lot of a
Speaker 6: lot of the high tech stuff, and I have quite
Speaker 6: a few resources in law law enforcements that I was
Speaker 6: able to call and get advice from. What I think
Speaker 6: was the most interesting one was the fact that a
Speaker 6: friend of mine that said, you know, Tyson, there is
Speaker 6: going to be a body at the end of this,
Speaker 6: and he says it might be yours, it might be his,
Speaker 6: it might be somebody else, but there will be a body.
Speaker 6: And it's it's shocking to know that few years later
Speaker 6: there was. But I, uh, you know, there's a there's
Speaker 6: The banks do offer extra methods of security. You can
Speaker 6: have verbal passwords when you go to the banks to
Speaker 6: withdraw money. There are there are a lot of ways
Speaker 6: to do it. Uh. These guys just you know, they
Speaker 6: figured their way around it. They did a big power
Speaker 6: of attorney to uh to sell Coach Lambert's house and
Speaker 6: then they then they even tried to take out the
Speaker 6: notary who had done the power of attorney. So there
Speaker 6: was was really difficult to Lucky Land Casino asking people,
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Speaker 6: Recover from something like that emotionally, I think, you know,
Speaker 6: physically I was able to get all the passwords done,
Speaker 6: but I think emotionally it's I still still have trust issues,
Speaker 6: but probably for the better, Probably for the better in
Speaker 6: that sense.
Speaker 8: Go ahead now, attending the trial and being involved in
Speaker 8: the trial and seeing Danny Garcia and defending himself and
Speaker 8: and tell us a little bit more about that phenomena.
Speaker 6: And I'm sorry to repeat that again.
Speaker 8: Well your relationship, given your relationship with Danny Garcia and
Speaker 8: in the court case and your participation in in the
Speaker 8: case itself, tell us a little bit more about that
Speaker 8: sort of uh, that event for you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So you know, fortunately I was not called in
Speaker 6: for for for court and the the The good news
Speaker 6: is that there were there were a couple of other
Speaker 6: events that led to led to their arrest and and
Speaker 6: and the court and the evidence and that was that uh,
Speaker 6: you know, the sale of the house triggered an incident
Speaker 6: where the title company reached out and and said something
Speaker 6: wasn't right, and uh the the they actually had sent
Speaker 6: a U haul to the house uh to h to
Speaker 6: take with Lambert's things. So there was all these other
Speaker 6: bits of evidence that that led up to their arrest.
Speaker 6: But I was I wasn't allowed to go to the
Speaker 6: trial because there was a slight chance that I would
Speaker 6: have been called as a witness because the manner that
Speaker 6: they withdrew Danny's minute, that they withdrew my money was
Speaker 6: the same way that Danny had withdrawn money from Cliff's
Speaker 6: account in a way of not raising any any flags
Speaker 6: of the bank to freeze the account. But even that
Speaker 6: didn't stop them when when Danny went on a spending
Speaker 6: spree with Cliff's AMEX card, they called and Danny answered
Speaker 6: and said, no, that's me. I'm I'm I'm Cliff, and
Speaker 6: I'm I'm spending this money. And so he, you know,
Speaker 6: was able to continue spending the money on on on
Speaker 6: cliffs guards.
Speaker 8: Now because it had the prosecutor spoken to you about
Speaker 8: the goods ability or any possibility of you being called
Speaker 8: as a witness, is not that that's why they said
Speaker 8: you have to stay away from this trial because you
Speaker 8: are witness.
Speaker 6: Can't be.
Speaker 8: I don't know influenced by evidence beforehand. So but had
Speaker 8: they done any kind of preparation or were you how
Speaker 8: confident were you going to be that you were a
Speaker 8: witness or not a witness in that trial?
Speaker 6: I was, I felt more or less because I really
Speaker 6: didn't have anything to do with with the murder itself,
Speaker 6: and that in that particular case, so I wasn't if
Speaker 6: anything there were there were would be obviously the case
Speaker 6: of Danny was going to initially claim that he and
Speaker 6: Cliff were in a relationship and that he Cliff had
Speaker 6: given him permission to use his bank accounts and his
Speaker 6: credit cards, and so there would be the possibility of
Speaker 6: me coming in and going, that's funny because he did
Speaker 6: the same thing to me, and I never gave him
Speaker 6: that permission. And he had also filed a petitions to
Speaker 6: have I think around two hundred or two hundred something
Speaker 6: people subpoenaed to testify for him, and most of those
Speaker 6: were character witnesses, but it did even included uh, uh,
Speaker 6: it included jajahboor it included Oliver Oliver Stone's mother. You know,
Speaker 6: all these celebrities that that that Cliff Lambert was familiar with,
Speaker 6: and uh, they were all gonna be character witnesses. And
Speaker 6: the judge actually uh says, look, you know Dan and
Speaker 6: who you are, your your own attorney here. But I'll
Speaker 6: tell you if if you bring in one character witness, uh,
Speaker 6: the prosecution will bring in hers. And and that I'm
Speaker 6: sure within me as well.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that would have been quite a circus. I mean,
Speaker 8: even the idea of contemplating some of those witnesses. Job,
Speaker 8: that's that's funny.
Speaker 6: Yeah. But but even after they had been arrested, even
Speaker 6: even more things unfolded, and and uh, the one that
Speaker 6: caught the attention of a lot of people in San
Speaker 6: Francisco was the Ringcon Hill Scan as it's known now.
Speaker 6: And that is uh, they had with the money that
Speaker 6: they had taken from Cliff, they had put down as
Speaker 6: sort of earnest money on a on a very expensive
Speaker 6: condo and the tallest condo building in San Francisco. And
Speaker 6: they then managed to transfer title fraudulently and on paper
Speaker 6: and in the system. They owned this condo. They reached
Speaker 6: out to the Bank of Solving or and and and
Speaker 6: the banks Center represent as representative over for a home
Speaker 6: equity line of credits. Uh. They saw the house, they
Speaker 6: tricked the the realtor in to give them a key,
Speaker 6: and the Bank of Solving believed that, in fact they
Speaker 6: were uh the owners, and and they give them a
Speaker 6: two billion dollar home equity line of credit and they
Speaker 6: immediately withdrew it. And as a result of that fraud
Speaker 6: coming to life because they were arrested right after it,
Speaker 6: the bank went insolvent and the sci C picked it up.
Speaker 6: And you and I, UH as taxpayers have also paid
Speaker 6: for that as well. Incredible, incredible.
Speaker 8: Now, why do you think, why do you theorize that
Speaker 8: these guys that were essentially cons felt it necessary to
Speaker 8: resort to murder. I mean, that's the one thing I
Speaker 8: get out of this. I don't understand how collectively they
Speaker 8: were in agreement with this that they would go that far. Now,
Speaker 8: it's also interesting, it's even unusual for guys to go
Speaker 8: when they've committed such a crime, to be so high
Speaker 8: profile and go gamble and just squander the money as
Speaker 8: fast as possible, go through incredible amount of money in
Speaker 8: short order. Why do you think that do you always
Speaker 8: think that the murder was murder wasn't always the plan?
Speaker 8: But why did could these guys Why do you believe
Speaker 8: that they felt it necessary to include murder and not
Speaker 8: just steal and con and defraud.
Speaker 6: Right, you know, and I I think it's like everything,
Speaker 6: it just it. You know, bank robbers get more brazen
Speaker 6: as they continue their their crimes. The fact is that
Speaker 6: these guys were unstoppable. I mean, Koushaw had even been
Speaker 6: arrested for his for being an illegal immigrant and was
Speaker 6: released later on five thousand dollars bail. They just couldn't
Speaker 6: be stopped. And when they they believed the cliff was
Speaker 6: worth around ninety million dollars, when in fact it was
Speaker 6: more like nine hundred thousand. But they figured if they
Speaker 6: had just kidnapped him and taken everything from him, that
Speaker 6: he would then finger them and they could actually get
Speaker 6: in trouble for this one, and it would be easier
Speaker 6: to just kill him him and hide the body and
Speaker 6: you know with a with using a power of attorney.
Speaker 6: And this is where as part of their team, David
Speaker 6: Rufflegol being the lawyer. Uh, a power of attorney is
Speaker 6: good as long as someone is alive. The minute they're dead,
Speaker 6: a power of attorney no longer works. So his body
Speaker 6: remained hidden and they proceeded to uh use their legal
Speaker 6: knowledge to Pilfer and and and like like the DA said,
Speaker 6: the vulture, Uh take everything, yes, but they and so
Speaker 6: it just it was the progression I guess, if you will,
Speaker 6: of being unstoppable. I almost I almost think that especially Kushaw,
Speaker 6: wanted to live this James Bond lifestyle of of the
Speaker 6: being the you know, the bad guy and and uh
Speaker 6: just you know, they they he would peel off one
Speaker 6: hundred dollars bills as tips and and you know it
Speaker 6: was just so slashy with everything, and that was the
Speaker 6: style he he wanted to live and wanted people to
Speaker 6: to uh see him as just just really more so scopathic,
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 8: But that's pretty evident.
Speaker 6: That's and that's the again, the message that that we
Speaker 6: have in our book until someone gets hurt is not
Speaker 6: only do we have a system that for you know,
Speaker 6: fraud that is needs to be relooked at, but that
Speaker 6: if if any of your listeners out there are people
Speaker 6: are telling them stories that are a little too hard
Speaker 6: to believe, you know, don't fall for it. Uh Uh.
Speaker 6: People are gonna unfriend you because you're not going to
Speaker 6: loan them some money. That's okay, you know. So the
Speaker 6: the real message here is if these if these stories
Speaker 6: that you're hearing are too good to be true. You know,
Speaker 6: the the these Nigerian scams, the print scams that will
Speaker 6: send you a chat and you know, cash my check
Speaker 6: and I'll give you a thousand dollars. It's all logus,
Speaker 6: it's all fraud. Don't fall for it.
Speaker 8: And the thing is, if you don't, you should be
Speaker 8: more wary of people. And there are ways of checking,
Speaker 8: especially checking on people and their backgrounds and hence, so
Speaker 8: that you could be more confident one way or another.
Speaker 8: And it's it's just your due diligence. You're talking about
Speaker 8: a lot of money. If you're talking a lot of money,
Speaker 8: and this is a good lesson. And what can also happen.
Speaker 8: It can't be just It might not just be theft.
Speaker 8: That might be just the least of the things that
Speaker 8: could occur to you as a result of interacting with
Speaker 8: some of these people.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and again these are this isn't just somebody you
Speaker 6: know who you met a weeko. This for me was
Speaker 6: somebody I'd know them for five years? How did that happen?
Speaker 6: And I looked back and there were signs and of
Speaker 6: course I just ignored them because you know who does that.
Speaker 8: No, but what there's side? But were really could you
Speaker 8: say unequivocally that there was signs to indicate the you know,
Speaker 8: the entire future, or were there signs that he might
Speaker 8: have been dishonest and he might have been a thief?
Speaker 6: No, you know, it was more just the stories that
Speaker 6: he told. You know, he told me that his parents
Speaker 6: had invented the core technology behind laser hair removal, and
Speaker 6: and you know, and and and I and I never
Speaker 6: ever looked into it. I never you know, he said
Speaker 6: that they had come up with some new handheld device
Speaker 6: that they were selling in Japan, and yet I never
Speaker 6: saw that device, and and I just you know, I
Speaker 6: was like wow. But it all hit me, you know
Speaker 6: when I got back and uh and discovered what he
Speaker 6: had done. And then it just you know, how do
Speaker 6: you have those you know, movies receive those people go
Speaker 6: through flashbacks. That's exactly what happened. Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And so you say, you still have trust issues,
Speaker 8: but you're not taking this, You're you're you're just learning
Speaker 8: some lessons from this. This book must have been I guess,
Speaker 8: cathartic to a certain degree. I know that sounds like
Speaker 8: a cliche, but it did. It writing this book and
Speaker 8: talking about this book and talking about this story, is
Speaker 8: it is it really helping?
Speaker 6: Yeah? You know, and and uh, you know, working with
Speaker 6: the with Sharry Leader and and uh, Kim and don
Speaker 6: Uh they were amazing. They had they they were supportive
Speaker 6: through a lot of it. There were times where Sherry
Speaker 6: would call me and she'd say, you know, sit down,
Speaker 6: I have something to tell you, and here's something we
Speaker 6: found and and uh shocking. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: now that it's out, Now that it's out, I'm I'm uh,
Speaker 6: it's it's a good release, if you will. So I
Speaker 6: think psychologically I'm okay. And you know, I think the
Speaker 6: trust issues are probably better. You know, they will they
Speaker 6: will keep it from happening again, that's for sure.
Speaker 8: Now, how was it? What was the experience like in
Speaker 8: terms of working with Luter best selling author Cherry Luter
Speaker 8: as the author of this book and knew the co author.
Speaker 8: How was what was the relationship like? Uh, tell us
Speaker 8: about that experience in terms of what it you know,
Speaker 8: what it consisted of.
Speaker 6: You know, we had a lot of a lot of investigations,
Speaker 6: a lot of interviews. Sorry, I have interviews I had,
Speaker 6: I had gotten all the contact info and I've found
Speaker 6: all these other victims, and uh and Sherry and Don
Speaker 6: and Camp, everybody was we were calling. We recorded the conversations,
Speaker 6: transcribed them, and then, you know, it's funny when we
Speaker 6: put it together. I think we probably spent we probably
Speaker 6: spent about three months trying to put it in order
Speaker 6: because it was so confusing and there were so many
Speaker 6: different events. And then just when we thought we had
Speaker 6: it done, somebody else would call and tell us, Hey,
Speaker 6: I read you guys are writing this. I have something
Speaker 6: to tell you. And so now we're figuring out where
Speaker 6: are we going to put that in there? And it
Speaker 6: was a it was definitely a lesson in in you know,
Speaker 6: for me in terms of how how difficult it is
Speaker 6: to write a book. It is not easy. And definitely
Speaker 6: Sherry was Serry was was crucial in that, and again
Speaker 6: Kim and Don's help and their interviews and the things
Speaker 6: that they doug up and the forty thousand documents that
Speaker 6: were presented in courts and the thirty one thousand text messages,
Speaker 6: just so much information to go through, and it was
Speaker 6: it's great there they've become family now.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it's a it's a really fascinating It is
Speaker 8: a really fascinating case. It's very unique and and you know,
Speaker 8: I do these things all the time in terms of
Speaker 8: unique stories. This is very very unique and different motivations
Speaker 8: and just incredible, incredible California, San Francisco, you know, crazy
Speaker 8: scams and cons involving again you get Josh Jacobar and
Speaker 8: all kinds of characters, cast of characters, and the Prince
Speaker 8: and so it's a it's a fascinating story. You can't
Speaker 8: write fiction like this stuff. It's just amazing. So I
Speaker 8: want to thank you very much, and I want to
Speaker 8: thank the literary team, like you said, Don and Kim
Speaker 8: and Sherry Luter of course, and yourself for putting this
Speaker 8: really really spellbinding tale together here, and for you coming
Speaker 8: on and Don and Kim arranging and helping arrange this
Speaker 8: interview and having you come on and talk about this
Speaker 8: your own personal experience in this incredible story. Well, thank
Speaker 8: you very much. Until someone gets hurt by Tyson Wrench
Speaker 8: and Sherry Luter, thank you very much, Tyson Wrench, thank.
Speaker 6: You for having me and I really appreciate it. Everybody,
Speaker 6: take be safe from the alert.
Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely, have a good night. Nine