1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: So some of you might have noticed I've been talking 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,160 more and more about the end of the World War 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,400 two consensus, about let's say, the mythology of World War 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,679 Two and how it founds our world. I've talked about 5 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:14,480 it on several podcasts if you haven't followed followed with 6 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:20,000 Benjamin Boyce, with Winston Marshall, with Ali Tabrizi, and you know, 7 00:00:20,039 --> 00:00:23,320 I've also been talking about it on my own newsletters. 8 00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:25,440 So if you want to hear more about my ideas 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,679 on that, you can look at in all these directions. 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,320 One of the reasons why I don't want to make 11 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:34,079 all these videos on my channel because I don't want 12 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:36,320 to make my channel about that. I think it's important 13 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:38,799 to talk about but I actually talk about this stuff 14 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,240 rather reluctantly because I don't like talking about politics. I'd 15 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,600 rather talk about religion and culture, and as we say, 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,399 politics is downstream from that. 17 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: But now, because. 18 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: Of everything that's going on, it's important to talk about 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,240 some of the issues, and so I wanted to bring 20 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,280 up just two images, the image of even the structure 21 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,320 of World War two, as the Axis and the Allies, 22 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:05,280 and show that already in the way that we understand 23 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,079 the division of the war, the main division of the war. 24 00:01:08,439 --> 00:01:11,359 We already have the structure of the World War two 25 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:12,599 consensus in there. 26 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,719 Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Pejel, Welcome to the Symbolic World. 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: So, for those who have been following, we are about 28 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:45,159 to launch our new Rapunzel books very soon. We were 29 00:01:45,159 --> 00:01:47,400 so excited to get this into people's hands that we 30 00:01:47,519 --> 00:01:51,680 actually airshipped about a thousand copies and some people were 31 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:54,719 able to access those one thousand copies we sold. I 32 00:01:54,719 --> 00:01:56,680 think it was nine hundred copies we had on sale. 33 00:01:56,879 --> 00:01:59,519 We sold nine hundred copies in like twenty six hours, 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,640 and so I'm really excited to see how, you know, 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,200 people reading it and getting the first glimpses. 36 00:02:06,239 --> 00:02:08,039 Speaker 2: We already have some reviews coming in. 37 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: It was also a way for us to test our 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,599 new shipping service and our new distribution service, and we 39 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:16,319 couldn't believe it. People were getting their books. Some got 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,800 it on the same day that they ordered it. Other 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,840 people's got them one day two days later. And so 42 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,439 we're really happy to see this new distribution system work out. 43 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: And so we decided that. 44 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: The book is going to be launching explicitly in about 45 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,439 a month, but we decided to still do a pre 46 00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:38,240 order for those who were interested, because I recorded an 47 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,919 audiobook version of the Rapunzel Book, and we also put 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,759 together a kind of worksheet to go through the story 49 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,039 with your kids, with your family, So we thought we 50 00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:48,240 could offer that to those who were willing to pre 51 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,360 order the book. Those that already bought the first very 52 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,360 first one thousand copies were able to get in, and 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,840 so we wanted to extend that offer to those who 54 00:02:55,879 --> 00:02:58,960 wanted to pre order, and so go to rapunzelbook dot 55 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,199 com and get your book. 56 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:02,319 Speaker 2: I cannot wait. 57 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: For people to read this because this is where the 58 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:06,599 story gets interesting. This is where the threads are going 59 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,879 to start to come together, and where the characters are 60 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:12,080 going to start to repeat. So get in on Tales 61 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,039 for once and ever. This is the third book. We've 62 00:03:14,039 --> 00:03:17,400 still got a whole bunch coming. We've got three books 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,240 that are in production right now, and so yeah, excited. 64 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:24,560 This is the thing that gets me the most excited 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,000 is this fairy tale project. So thanks everybody, and go 66 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,159 get your book. You know, one of the things that 67 00:03:30,199 --> 00:03:33,240 I've talked about for many times over and over is 68 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,199 that in some ways the modern world is a radicalization 69 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:37,080 of the question of. 70 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,919 Speaker 2: The one and the many. 71 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: In some ways, this division I call it the separation 72 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,520 of heaven and Earth, where things move more and more 73 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,120 towards a kind of radical unity, which and the kind 74 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:49,680 of tyranny and control, which can be represented of course 75 00:03:49,719 --> 00:03:54,719 as the bureaucratic state itself, as the nation state with 76 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,840 solid borders, as the move towards more and more cent 77 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:03,960 realized identities, whether it is ethnic identities that happen. 78 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: Of course in the modern age as well. 79 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,919 Speaker 1: And on the other side, which is more and more 80 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,919 of a kind of chaotic sense with the increase, of course, 81 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,279 chaotic in the sense of moving towards multiplicity or the 82 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:20,279 power of multiplicity. And in that sense you have democracies 83 00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:24,879 in there. But you also have the revolutionary narrative in itself. 84 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: You know, this idea that the many kind of. 85 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:31,519 Speaker 1: Come up and take over or defeat the one because 86 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:34,519 the one is dangerous and tyrannical. And then on the 87 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,360 other hand you have this sense that we need more 88 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,240 and more state control and more and more unification, you know, 89 00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:44,959 first at the state level and now at the kind 90 00:04:44,959 --> 00:04:47,600 of world level, and those two narratives can play off 91 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,040 each other. This move in towards one and this move 92 00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:54,000 in towards the Many as a type of deincarnation. What 93 00:04:54,079 --> 00:04:56,160 you can see is that already in the structure of 94 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,160 World War Two, with the imagery of the access and 95 00:04:58,199 --> 00:05:01,720 the Allies, it's already there, and it is already a 96 00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:04,920 reflection of what's going to happen. And in some ways, 97 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,560 the World War two consensus, because of who won the war, 98 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,519 ended up setting up the structure for the next generation 99 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,120 of what it is that we tend to prioritize. 100 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: We can start with the axis. 101 00:05:18,319 --> 00:05:21,439 Speaker 1: Of course, if you look at the symbolism of the axis, 102 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,800 an axis is a pole, right, an axis is a 103 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,560 vertical thing, or a vertical around which things turn. It 104 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:34,240 is in some ways the one itself. And this is 105 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,319 the imagery that was used. And if you look at 106 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,120 the imagery, the kind of iconography of the axis, you 107 00:05:40,199 --> 00:05:44,000 see this focus on uniformity. If you think of the 108 00:05:44,759 --> 00:05:47,240 of the regimes, you know, this image of the of 109 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:53,279 the uniform, you know, the Nazi uniform, these huge squares 110 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:57,680 of people walking like this image of the power of unity, 111 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,680 the power of one. And of course the swastika is 112 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,560 itself an image of the axis. 113 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: You know, the symbol is going to get know at 114 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:07,680 the beginning of the. 115 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: Twentieth century suggested that the that the swastika was in 116 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,519 fact the Polaris star and what we call the little 117 00:06:16,519 --> 00:06:21,879 dipper that is turning around that Polaris star. So if 118 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,199 you think about it's like a point with the crook, 119 00:06:24,959 --> 00:06:26,759 and some of the older swastika is right, they have 120 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,519 a double crook that's similar to the to the to 121 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:36,800 the the little Dipper, the little bear, you know. And 122 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,920 so whether or not that's actually what the swastika is about, 123 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,800 the for sure that imagery of the swastika as being 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,680 a polar image would have been known by the people 125 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,600 who developed it in Germany. Whether it's polar, whether it's 126 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:57,160 solar as well, whether it is this idea of it's 127 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:57,439 like in. 128 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,959 Speaker 2: Some ways the kind of solar wheel. 129 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:02,879 Speaker 1: All of these images are images of centrality and of 130 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,800 origin and of unity very very strongly, and so it 131 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,759 is quite normal that the axis looks the way it 132 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:14,000 does in the jury the Italians have the fascis, you know, 133 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,040 this idea of this bundle that is tied together really 134 00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:23,079 strongly and represents the unity of the of the enterprise. 135 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,519 And how if we're bound into one, then that unity 136 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,040 is much stronger than the than the multiplicity. Right, if 137 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:34,600 you bind multiplicity together strongly, then it becomes extremely strong. 138 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,680 And of course the same with the sun in Japan. Right, 139 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:40,839 So the sun, the solar imagery in Japan, and the 140 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,639 axial and solar imagery in the in the swastika, the 141 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,680 faskis in Italy. All of these image just go together 142 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:55,480 in terms of these images of unity. And you know, 143 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,199 that's why there's such an emphasis on national unity, on 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,040 racial unity, on hierarchy, extreme hierarchy. All of this type 145 00:08:04,079 --> 00:08:06,680 of imagery is there in the fascist imagery. 146 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:09,759 Speaker 2: And now on the other side, which you have or 147 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,519 the allies, and so in the way. 148 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: That the Allies ended up coming together, it's interesting because 149 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,560 if things had gone differently, like if the alliance between 150 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,319 Hitler and Stalin would have held in some ways, we 151 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:30,439 would have had a kind of authoritarian versus more democratic regime, 152 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,759 and that would have been the narrative structure. Right, So 153 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,000 you have authoritarianism and then you have this kind of 154 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:36,919 you could say. 155 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: Democratic idea. 156 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:45,919 Speaker 1: But because the Allies ended up allying themselves with the Communists, 157 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,759 with the Russians, what ends up happening is you really 158 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:52,159 have more of the one and the many, and so 159 00:08:52,279 --> 00:08:57,799 now the revolutionary trope is the one that gets emphasized, 160 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,600 you could say, narratively, where it is possible to ally 161 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,799 ourselves with communists because we are both in some ways 162 00:09:04,159 --> 00:09:09,080 anti anti anti hierarchy, right, anti hierarchy in the sense 163 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,279 of origin, and this kind of that type, the type 164 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,360 of imperial original imagery, and. 165 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: So they all of this goes together. And so if 166 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:20,879 you look at the. 167 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: Imagery of the allies, they don't have a kind of centralization. 168 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,279 It's represented in some ways as really a loose alliance 169 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,039 or a loose federation, which is what the United Nations 170 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,360 end up becoming, this idea of a federation of nations. Right, 171 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:37,840 So when you use the word federation, which you're suggesting, 172 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,360 is you're suggesting in some ways the power of the many, 173 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:44,440 the power of a kind of willful alliance, one that's 174 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,000 not dependent on a on a higher origin or on 175 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,759 something higher that's binding us together. And there's a kind 176 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:53,960 of flexibility in that, you know, there's a there's a 177 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,720 looseness to that, to that strength. And there's also a 178 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:02,399 tendency to emphasize the the individual, especially in terms of 179 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,639 Western Europe. And the United States, and so the image 180 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:06,679 becomes a kind. 181 00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 2: Of ragtag. 182 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: The ragtag army, right, this idea of an army of 183 00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:16,360 difference becomes the type of imagery this used. And if 184 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,519 you think about it, all of our narrative since World 185 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,679 War Two, most of our narratives have been about that, 186 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:30,159 which is a loose ragtag group that defeats a unitary principle, right, 187 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,000 that defeats something that is too tyrannical, whether it's Star Wars, 188 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,200 whether it's even recently in the recent Marvel series. 189 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:41,399 Speaker 2: Captain America has its Howling Wolves, which. 190 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,759 Speaker 1: Were like a bunch of different people from different nations, 191 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,440 Like each person in his battalion represented a different nation, 192 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,320 and they're kind of all very very different, but their 193 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,720 difference and the strength of their difference is what makes 194 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,159 them flexible and have all these different qualities that are 195 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:03,279 able to join together rather loosely in order to defeat 196 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:06,840 this tyrannical, you know, authoritarian structure. 197 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: And so this is of course. 198 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,159 Speaker 1: The story that we've been that we've been facing ever 199 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,759 since World War Two, which is that's the narrative. The 200 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,480 narrative is ragtag multiplicity against the tyranny of the one. 201 00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: But of course that is not the full story, right. 202 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: You could tell another story, which is in some ways 203 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,960 that the ragtag group becomes chaotic, becomes subversive even to 204 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,879 its own means, and that you need some kind of authority, 205 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:40,080 return of the king style in order to re establish 206 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,279 a form of order. Those two stories are legitimate because 207 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,080 excess can come from both sides. But we've been pushing 208 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,120 this story very very strongly, and this is something that 209 00:11:51,879 --> 00:11:54,399 this is going to be tough for some people to swallow. 210 00:11:54,759 --> 00:12:00,799 But you know, the Rainbow Coalition stuff is downstream from 211 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,960 the Star Wars narrative. It's downstream from the idea of 212 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,759 the rebellion of this loose alliance of all these different 213 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,000 different groups of planets and all these different extraterrestrial races 214 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,399 that are all facing this kind of all dark clad 215 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:26,519 you know. Uh that's say European stock fascist imagery of 216 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,000 the empire, right. And so you know when the when 217 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:33,120 the kind of woke people said, and even in Marvel 218 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:34,879 and all of these movies, they said in some ways 219 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:39,480 that they're completely being coherent with stories that already been there, 220 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:42,600 Like the new Star Wars movie, they were a continuation 221 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,159 of something of an imagery that was already there the 222 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,440 original Star Wars movies, which was this ragtag alliance of 223 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,799 of diversity against unity. Now, the thing is that that 224 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,720 sometimes needs to happen. 225 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:59,799 Speaker 2: That sometimes is you could say. 226 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: It's a normal narrative if it's if it has that 227 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,720 kind of reasonability to it. And like I've said, the 228 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:10,440 emphasis on federation and the emphasis on you know, an 229 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,679 equality of multiple people has been the strength of the 230 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,639 world since the end of World War two, and it 231 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,120 has worked and it has held us together. But if 232 00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:21,279 you keep pushing in that direction, at some point you 233 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,960 reach its fringes and you reach it excesses, and then 234 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,960 you reach a kind of inverted storytelling. Right, the idea 235 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,879 where unity is bad, where identity is bad, where the 236 00:13:32,919 --> 00:13:38,519 only possible identities are revolutionary identities. It's upside down stories. 237 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,159 It's women ruling over men, it's minorities ruling over those 238 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,759 that hold the nation or hold the name of the nation. 239 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:51,039 It's it's the idea of of migrants or immigrants being 240 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,879 more important, being more powerful, being more having more having 241 00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:58,120 more value than those that are were. 242 00:13:57,919 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: There in the first place. 243 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,879 Speaker 1: And so you can see how if you push the 244 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,919 story which is a completely legitimate story. You end up 245 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,600 with a kind of a kind of excess which no 246 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,039 longer holds. And then that excess what it does is 247 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,799 it calls to the other side. And this is what 248 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,000 I've been warning you about, is that in someone's a 249 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,879 call to the other side, it calls for a form 250 00:14:19,879 --> 00:14:24,000 of unity, it looks for to go back to, you know, 251 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:26,960 and then all the memes about the empire was right 252 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,039 in Star Wars, and that there's a lot of these 253 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,639 kinds of memes that appeared that's been appearing maybe since 254 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:37,720 twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, about how, in fact, you know, 255 00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:41,120 maybe the other side was right. And the truth is 256 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,080 that we don't need to go all the way to 257 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,759 that direction, but we do need to be aware that 258 00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:51,039 we're reaching the end of one story. Like the push 259 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:57,480 towards the image of loose federations fighting, let's say fighting, 260 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,799 unity is no longer applause because we're looking at our 261 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:05,679 world fall apart and we're seeing things crumble, and we 262 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:09,480 need to be able to reformulate unity. The danger is 263 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:13,480 that the way the unity will be reformulated might be tyrannical. 264 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,840 Either way that we go right, whether we go left, 265 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:21,200 or right, the unity might be tyrannical, whether it's a 266 00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:25,759 kind of fascistic type nationalist identity, or whether it is 267 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,120 a globalist you know, technocracy. You know, these all of 268 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,039 these can lead towards forms of tyranny. What we really 269 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,120 need is to find the balance again and to reformulate 270 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,399 unity and multiplicity at every single level, at the local level, 271 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,960 at the family level, at the city level, at the 272 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,039 national level, so that we can avoid these movements towards 273 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,039 extreme unity and extreme multiplicity. But what I wanted mostly 274 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,639 for you to be able to see is to what 275 00:15:56,799 --> 00:16:01,039 extent that imagery is already there. It was already there 276 00:16:01,159 --> 00:16:03,679 right at the outset. And if you look at the 277 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:08,200 way that let's say, you could say, the way that 278 00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:12,399 the the Gis are represented versus the way that we 279 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:17,440 tend to think of the Nazi officer right the SS 280 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,679 with their black uniforms, you know, and they're kind of 281 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,440 very very tight look and the gis, you know, kind 282 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,000 of loose everything out of falling apart with all the 283 00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:30,960 stuff on them. You know, they look more like a 284 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,440 kind of chaotic adventure. And there's something seductive about that, 285 00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:37,320 for sure. But you can see that the entire esthetic 286 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:41,639 of the Access versus the Allies. If you meditate on it, 287 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:45,000 you'll see that the fact that the Allies won then 288 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:50,200 established which narratives were permissible and which narratives were encouraged 289 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,879 until today. And they also are showing to what extent 290 00:16:56,159 --> 00:16:59,519 they've run out, and so hopefully we can find a 291 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:02,240 solution that aren't excessive. 292 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: So what's interesting when you look at the. 293 00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: Way that the Axis and the Allies represent themselves is 294 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,440 you can see that we have in some ways the 295 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,359 perfect storm of symbolism, which is, and this is in 296 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,799 some ways where the story becomes the most powerful. 297 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: That is, when if you have two opponents, those. 298 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: Two opponents actually recognize themselves to be something, and so 299 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:28,359 the Axis recognizes itself to be the strength of unity, 300 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,559 the strength of the One, and the Allies in some 301 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,240 ways recognize themselves as being this federation, loose federation of 302 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,759 people that are joining together voluntarily in order to fight something. 303 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,640 And so you have this perfect storm because on the 304 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,839 one hand, what you can do with the propaganda of 305 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,319 the war is you can emphasize the negative aspect of 306 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,839 the other side, and so what ends up happening is, 307 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:03,079 of course the Allies represent the Axis as being tyrannical, 308 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,160 as being monolithic, as being an excess of the one, 309 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,480 and that of course ramps up. Now the Axis was 310 00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:12,559 already something like that, but what happens is that the 311 00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:17,720 propaganda effort, the pressure of the narrative, ramps up the 312 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:21,839 stakes and makes the way that you represent the enemy 313 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,000 even more and more of what they are in the 314 00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:28,079 negative sense, and the same for the other side. 315 00:18:28,079 --> 00:18:29,279 Speaker 2: Of course, the Axis. 316 00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: Propaganda would emphasize the Allies as being degenerate, as being subversive, 317 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:39,400 as being chaotic, you know, as being mixed. Right, that 318 00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:42,039 was also an important aspect of the you know, as 319 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:45,480 being confused in the sense of mixed. And so now 320 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,440 all of a sudden they've emphasized not the strength of 321 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,119 a kind of loose federation of people, but rather the 322 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,839 negative aspect of this that lose configuration. And that's when 323 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,279 you really have, let's say, a perfect storm. And the 324 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:05,640 propaganda effort and the narrative pressure is also what created, 325 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,359 in some ways, the World War two myth or the 326 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,640 post World War two consensus. 327 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,319 Speaker 2: Consensus is that that. 328 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,319 Speaker 1: Propaganda, you know, that say, led to a story that 329 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,400 became necessary for winning the war, and a story that 330 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,519 then became necessary for holding things together after the war 331 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,960 had ended. And so it's not that the propaganda isn't 332 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,319 based on images that were true. Like I said, the 333 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Axis and the Allies recognized themselves as being either image 334 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:38,920 images of the one or images of the many. 335 00:19:39,759 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: But it is rather the you. 336 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,599 Speaker 1: Could say, it is the desire to defeat the other 337 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,079 that creates the the type of pressure that makes the 338 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,319 other side into an absolute evil that has to be destroyed. 339 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,960 And then that that narrative pressure continues after the war 340 00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:01,000 war has won, and that can help you understand why 341 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:04,240 in some ways it's kind of like a narrative virus 342 00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,559 that keeps taking up more and more space. And that's why, 343 00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:11,279 in some ways the imagery of unity after World War 344 00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:15,359 Two just keeps getting pushed and pushed and pushed until 345 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:19,799 even normal images of unity like family or like nation, 346 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,920 or like heritage, all of these different things, unless it's revolutionary, 347 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:28,960 becomes an image of fascism that is of course untenable. 348 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,480 And that is one of the reasons why the pendulum 349 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,039 is tending or wants to swing back, hopefully not to 350 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:40,160 the completely to the other side, but is definitely swinging back. 351 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,759 As we speak and so I hope this was insightful 352 00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:47,880 and that this brought you to think further on the 353 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,160 question of where we are and what's going on. And 354 00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:52,680 thank you for your support of the symbolic World. If 355 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,559 you can, please sign up to the symbolic World dot com. 356 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: You know you have all. 357 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Kinds of advantages signing up, and it also is a 358 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,920 possibility of supporting us financially as well. And so thanks 359 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,920 everyone for your attention and I'll talk to you very soon. 360 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,599 Speaker 2: Bye bye. 361 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,759 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed these videos and podcasts, please go to 362 00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:12,480 the symbolic World dot com website and see how you 363 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:15,680 can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers 364 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,640 with perks. There are apparel in books to purchase. So 365 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,839 go to the symbolic World dot com and thank you 366 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:21,880 for your support.