WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:09.359 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys, 2 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:13.119 are you fav It's so like say subscribe and raid it, 3 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:16.120 lip stock Sho and me. 4 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:20.559 Question today and listening. 5 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:24.879 Oh watchy Lin always keep its watching. 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.399 And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay. 7 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.520 Hey, Bob, So what's happening? Man? Just lurking in the Northwest, 8 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.000 just lurking on my porch right there. I can actually 9 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.039 see you again. This is the second broadcast we've been 10 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:40.240 able to do in person. 11 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:42.039 I get sucked again. Yeah. 12 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:44.479 Last time we did a podcast here in the porch, 13 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:46.640 it was we did under a tarp, and of course 14 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.640 the tart filled up with rain and dumped on Bobo's computers. 15 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.719 That was a great Cliff dumped it. So Cliff dumped it. 16 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:54.560 I guess that's the first time I've been accused of 17 00:00:54.719 --> 00:01:00.159 dumping in our presence. I know, I know that was 18 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:02.520 what I was saying. Yeah, but you know, usually right 19 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:04.079 now at Bobo and I kind of banter back and 20 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:05.879 forth and catch up a wispen going on. But we're 21 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:07.719 going to forego all that because we have a very 22 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.200 very special guest and he is also in person. Right now, 23 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.439 sitting across this little table on my back porch, we 24 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:18.760 have the lovely and talented Tom Powell with us. Tom is, 25 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.719 of course the author of a number of books. The 26 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:24.799 Locoss was very, very influential a lot of ways. In fact, 27 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:27.280 I think that was the first book to talk about 28 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.519 habituation of any sort. And then he later came out 29 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:33.519 with Edges of Science, where he went a little weird 30 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:35.400 on the bigfoot thing, which is great because that is 31 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:37.760 what direction he likes to go. And now he has 32 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:42.000 a third book, a third book called Planet Strange. I 33 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.920 have read the entire book cover to cover, and I 34 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.280 really really enjoyed it because it strongly reminded me of 35 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:52.319 the nineteen seventies and in search of like Reading through 36 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:55.400 Tom's book is like is like reading a synopsis of 37 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:58.280 all the seasons of in search of all at once. 38 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.840 There's a chapter on the pyramid, It's a chapter on 39 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.040 the Bermuda triangle. There's a chapter on these mound things. 40 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.640 There's a chapter on all sorts of weird stuff, cattle mutilations, 41 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.560 cattle mutilations. Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff in there, 42 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:12.960 and it's a lot of fun to read. Now I 43 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.039 gotta say I am Cliff. After all, I don't necessarily 44 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:16.400 agree with all of it, but that I don't have 45 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:18.759 to agree with something to enjoy it, right, Like I 46 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.639 don't think Lord of the Rings is real, for example, 47 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.280 but I really enjoy it. So anyway, So Tom Powell 48 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.599 is here us, sitting at the table with us. Thank 49 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:28.599 you very much, Tom for coming over and hanging out. 50 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:29.439 Nice to be here. 51 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:31.120 It's for the good dinner last night. 52 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:33.759 Yeah, we had a nice dinner over at Tom's house 53 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.159 and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can talk about maybe 54 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.520 on the Members episode. But Bobo found a handprint in 55 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.719 one of our spots yesterday and I poured some plaster 56 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.560 in it, so that was pretty cool. But Tom, since 57 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.639 you're here, let's take advantage of your time. So another book, huh? Like, 58 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:54.240 how long has this book been in the works? Probably 59 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:58.280 three years. I didn't write every day, obviously, but it 60 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.560 wasn't on again off a process, not including all the reading. 61 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.800 I think one way to describe the book is it's 62 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:10.800 a distillation of about twenty or twenty five separate books, 63 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.599 and I sort of took the key ideas that some 64 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:20.879 other authors suggested put it with some other thoughts of 65 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:24.479 my own and came up with sort of something that 66 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:29.479 approaches a unified theory of the paranormal, shall we say? 67 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:31.319 That's what I was going to say. It reminds me 68 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.360 of the grand utification theory in physics, honestly, where the 69 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:39.000 physicists are out there trying to connect relativity with quantum 70 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.280 physics and all and just trying to like to come 71 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.759 down to one equation to explain everything, like the God equation, 72 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:47.280 I think. 73 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:50.280 Is what it is. I call it pleasures, all right. 74 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:53.840 So that's one of the things I think that you've 75 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:56.120 been chasing for a while. It's like the grand utification 76 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:59.759 theory of the paranormal, trying to connect sasquatches to UFOs, 77 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.120 to mounds to whatever at the same And do you 78 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:04.599 think that is achievable or do you think that these 79 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.120 are actually separate a current separate phenomenon. 80 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:12.840 They're seen by most as separate, and each of them 81 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:17.360 has people who sort of research it to the exclusion 82 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:22.160 of most else. But the problem that I faced after 83 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.480 writing these other books is that there were still these 84 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:30.040 open questions that I couldn't resolve. Where do the sasquatches 85 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.240 go when they want privacy? Why is it that we 86 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:40.399 can't take pictures of them? They seem inclined to avoid cameras, 87 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.839 almost as if they understand what they are, and they're 88 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.439 reverse to them for reasons that aren't real obvious to people, 89 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:53.560 but to me it those are some of the questions 90 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:58.399 that I was still searching for definitive answers to these questions, 91 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.040 and I finally decided that it's not actually an original thought, 92 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:04.920 but the idea is that if you can't find the 93 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.680 answers that you're looking for, you have to widen the 94 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:14.040 area of research and investigation, because it's probable that something 95 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.199 is being overlooked or not factored in that that doesn't 96 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.720 seem related but actually is. 97 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:24.600 Well, I like what you're saying because, in my own way, 98 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.000 being a quote unquote apor or whatever one side may 99 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.120 call it the other, I'm kind of doing the same 100 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:34.040 thing in a realistic way, because you know, I've approached 101 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:36.360 these things like they're perfectly normal wildlife and we can 102 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.759 study them as such. But at the same time, I 103 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.720 think it's important to look at other disciplines like geology, 104 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.040 for example, and see what other things we can learn 105 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.279 from there that might factor in. Now you're doing it 106 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.319 on a much different level and much other topics, of course. 107 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.000 But I smell at your step in and so to speak, 108 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.839 because I do the same thing. I look to other 109 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:02.920 disciplines to help me understand my narrowed focus better. But 110 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.439 I did notice that I think the word sasquatch probably 111 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.759 appears no more than five times in your entire book. 112 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.480 It's not really a Bigfoot book. 113 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:11.160 No it isn't. 114 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:14.800 I used the Bigfoot topic as a springboard, perhaps on 115 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:19.839 the first page, and just review some of my conclusions 116 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:23.680 in other books. But of course, you know, the more 117 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:25.959 books you're write, the harder it is to say something 118 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.759 that hasn't already been said before, either by me or 119 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:34.079 by someone else. So finding something that is truly new 120 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.879 and different is a little tougher each time. But I 121 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:40.680 think by looking at some of these other disciplines, and 122 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:44.160 looking at the research efforts of other people and other 123 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:49.240 subjects suddenly some light bulbs went on in my own 124 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:53.480 head as to connections that some of these things seem 125 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:58.079 to suggest. A biggie is that there is this underground 126 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:02.399 realm perhaps, and it's something that surfaces in a lot 127 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.680 of Native American lore. They talk about the underworld, and 128 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:14.560 how most tribes attribute their own origins to a subterranean 129 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:20.800 realm that where their ancestors originated. So over and over 130 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:26.120 again you run into these mentions of this subterranean realm. Now, 131 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:29.160 the problem is, of course, it's very difficult to prove 132 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:34.040 any of this stuff. But what you can do, I think, 133 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:39.480 is look for patterns, and sometimes those patterns suggest things 134 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:46.199 that are, if not provable, certainly credible. And let's just say, 135 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.199 from such ideas you come up with explanations that may 136 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.959 have been overlooked. For instance, the biggie for me is 137 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.680 that the sasquatch, like other creatures us, want safe haven 138 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:06.959 at times, and where is that. We walk around in 139 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.920 the woods and we see these structures that sort of 140 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.360 look like Tepe's without any covering on them, and people, oh, 141 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:17.560 that's a sasquatch haven of some kind. And I look 142 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.279 at the thing. I think that that doesn't provide shelter 143 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:23.319 from anything. Yeah, they'd be terrible architects if that was 144 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:27.879 the case. They're markers, I think, and and they may 145 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.480 be markers of what some people call power spots, vortexes, 146 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:36.720 things like that, other things that we've known about for 147 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:41.639 a long time. The cathedrals in Europe are all located 148 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:45.480 on what we're seeing at the time to be some 149 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:48.399 sort of power spot, some sort of vortex. So the 150 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:51.240 idea that these vortexes exist on the surface of the 151 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:56.279 Earth is not a new idea, but it is a 152 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.519 not very provable necessarily to science. They don't know how 153 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.519 to measure these things and whatever power they represent, but 154 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:09.879 they have been acknowledged for a long time, and places 155 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:14.559 like Stonehenge and and so on we're located to take 156 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.039 advantage of these places. Then of course there's the Bermuda 157 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:23.799 Triangle and other places like that. Now people are starting 158 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.519 to see that there are these vortex is and they're 159 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.440 connected by what they call lay lines, and they pretty 160 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:37.120 much cover the planet from place to place. And what 161 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.000 these places exactly are we're just trying to figure out. 162 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:47.440 But it does seem that energies exist there that are 163 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:53.080 potentially quite strong. Have you been to Joe And yes, 164 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:58.120 and that is also seen as one of these places. 165 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:02.120 There's one here in Oregon on what's called Sardine Creek 166 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.519 down by a crater lake, and there are a lot 167 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:09.440 of other places too. Of course, Shasta is a well 168 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:14.440 known I thought it was a lot more credible than 169 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:16.399 I expected. I thought it was going to be a 170 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:22.440 roadside attraction. And once they explained it, which Joe does 171 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:28.480 a really good job of articulating the physics. Yeah, much 172 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.159 better than they do with the Oregon Vortex, which is 173 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:36.080 staffed by kids in their late teens early twenties at 174 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.759 the time I was there. Joe and Tammy do a 175 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:45.159 much better job of articulating the science behind this spot, 176 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:49.759 which is in a very unlikely place along the approach 177 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.080 to Glacier National Park. 178 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:57.720 They are right on the flanks of this huge bathlift that. 179 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:04.960 A giant piece of rock that was all once molten 180 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:10.200 magma and it cooled into this just this giant stone 181 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:14.279 the size of a mountain. And they think that that 182 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.679 giant bathlith adjacent to their property has a lot to 183 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.879 do with the energy that seems to exist there. 184 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.080 Well, that would make sense because you know, the magma 185 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.080 of course brings up minerals and whatnot from inside the 186 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:32.240 mantle of the Earth, you know, and then that's where 187 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.240 all a lot of like iron, for example, would be. 188 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:36.879 So if there's any messing with say things like compasses 189 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.360 or whatever like that, that would easily explain that sort 190 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.080 of thing, right. 191 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.120 And all the crystalline nature of the rock. When it 192 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:50.759 cools slowly, crystals form. When rock cools quickly, it doesn't 193 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:55.519 have time to crystallize. And something about the crystals is 194 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:01.000 also sort of a touchstone that many people uh see 195 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:05.600 as significant when it comes to where this energy comes 196 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:10.320 from and and uh how it is used and so on. Now, 197 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.440 of course I'm a science guy. I don't like bathe 198 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.679 with crystals or use it for dealter or anything like that. 199 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.799 But at the same time, you correct me if I'm wrong. 200 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.720 But if I remember correctly, you actually have a degree 201 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:21.600 in geology, right. 202 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:22.480 I do not. 203 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.039 I have a degree in environmental science. Oh, and I 204 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.759 minored in geology. That's what I'm thinking. I had to 205 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:34.399 choose an area of focus, uh in a degree that 206 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.360 was sort of broad and and and intended for education, 207 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:42.519 you know, teaching, and so yes, I focused on geology. 208 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:42.919 There you go. 209 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.200 I knew, I knew I had. I knew it was 210 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.440 somewhere in your uh, in your academic background. 211 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:47.919 Indeed. 212 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.879 Yeah, so I do appreciate your thoughts on the structure 213 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:53.240 of the Earth and the core. And then then like 214 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:55.600 your knowledge of rocks and BATHOLISTH didn't know that word. 215 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:57.919 I thought a bathylist was something that turned to the throne. 216 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.600 Uh yeah, more by the way, wearing a Dungeons and 217 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.039 Dragon shirt. So I can say that so and only 218 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.279 in like nine people in our listening audience. So just went, 219 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.399 oh that's funny, Cliff, and everybody else said Cliss, I 220 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:09.080 don't understand. 221 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:14.879 Well, here's another geologic open question, and that is the 222 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:19.080 existence of these mounds as they occur, not just nationwide 223 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:19.960 but worldwide. 224 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:21.879 Well, yes, back up, because, like I know that you've 225 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.440 been really pushing the study of these mounds, because you 226 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:27.120 mentioned there's at least one chapter in your previous book, 227 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:29.879 which is a science about the mounds in general. For 228 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.399 people who may not be familiar or who haven't seen 229 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.480 in search of in the couple a few decades. What 230 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.120 is a mound and why do you think they're important? 231 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.039 Well, mounds are just these piles of earth. They're important 232 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.879 because they're so poorly understood, so completely mysterious. 233 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:48.559 Uh well, no, no, some of them are. Some of 234 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.720 them are just mounds of piles of earth, as you say, 235 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.440 but some of the other ones are are are I 236 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:54.720 think we can say it's a little bit are a 237 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.759 little bit more than just piles of earth, like the 238 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.320 snake mound, and like the serpent mound. Rather, and yes, 239 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:02.600 they called those effigyug mounds, So if they look like something, 240 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.279 they're called effigy mounds, and the others are just mounts, right, 241 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.159 animal effigies, Okay, is what. 242 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:11.320 So the serpent mound is of course in the shape 243 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.679 of a serpent with its mouth open, and it's got 244 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:18.440 this egg shaped pile of earth that also is part 245 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:20.879 of the whole structure. 246 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.759 Yeah, these mounds aren't something like ten feet long. It's 247 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.600 enormous and it's not clear where this earth came from. 248 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:36.039 The mounds are in all kinds of strange shapes that 249 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.759 a lot of them are geometric, and others are just 250 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:47.200 giant piles, but really really big piles, but not naturally 251 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:51.720 occurring sort of hills there they were Historically they were 252 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:53.759 attributed to Native Americans. 253 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:59.279 Now, the Native Americans themselves said those were here when 254 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:03.679 we came, that we did not build those. But for 255 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.679 some reason they just decided they were Native American mounds. 256 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.120 Because they were here before white folks are therefore man 257 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:10.919 made stuff before. 258 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.799 Now to me, they are significant because they represent some 259 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:26.000 sort of tailings from what I see as subterranean excavation. 260 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:27.879 I think the effigies. 261 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.080 One guy, Jim Brandon, a author of a book called 262 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:36.559 The Rebirth of Pan, suggested that the mounds are there 263 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.679 to confuse scientists, and. 264 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:47.000 As a scientist who might be confused, like dinosaurs. 265 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:49.399 In other words, the shape we we we argue over 266 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:53.919 the orientation and how they they The mounds, like Stonehenge, 267 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.000 point to the point of sunrise on the equinox and 268 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.799 on the solstice, and so the mounds get people arguing 269 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:09.080 over their significance. But what gets overlooked is the whole 270 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.840 question of where did that dirt come from? 271 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.759 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and 272 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.080 Bogo will be right back after these messages. 273 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:28.240 And in many cases it's not all dirt, it's rock 274 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:34.000 as well. So that led me to speculate that the 275 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:41.799 mounds are indicative of subterranean excavations that were done probably 276 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.879 thousands of years ago, and then the arrangement of the 277 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.559 mounds was done, as Jim Brandon said, to confuse us. 278 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.159 We argue over what the significance of it is, but 279 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:59.039 we tend to overlook the question of mightn't these mounds 280 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.240 be telling us that somewhere there was a whole bunch 281 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.119 of dirt that just had to be gotten rid of, 282 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:12.079 and that dirt suggests that there are substantial subterranean excavations 283 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:16.000 where beings have taken up residents. 284 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:17.960 Now, then let me ask you something, because when I 285 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.240 was reading the mound section of your book, one of 286 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.720 the possible explanations that came to my mind. You must 287 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.039 have thought of this at some point is some sort 288 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.960 of what are they called middens am I right in that, 289 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.160 like you know, basically a trash pile by a group 290 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:32.720 of native people, Like I know, there was a very 291 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.960 large one in Emeryville, California. In fact, it's called there 292 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:40.319 called Shell Mountains down there, because those native people mostly 293 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.119 subsisted on molluscs and things from the ocean because they're 294 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:44.839 right on the coast there, and they threw all their 295 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.359 stuff up in there. And I read a great book 296 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.039 by an archaeologist a number of years ago who was 297 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.319 part of the excavation of those before they were torn 298 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.640 all down. And sure, there's like needles in there made 299 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.319 out of bone, there's tools, there's trash there's some human 300 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.599 bodies in there as well, So it seems like they 301 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.079 use these middens for just a disposal service of everything 302 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:07.759 in their small villages and cultures in the area. And 303 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:11.759 they dated back long I believe. I could be wrong, 304 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.920 but I believe they dated back to a time that 305 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:19.480 their oral tradition didn't reach yet. Could it be possible 306 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:23.160 that these other larger mounds, whether they're in the shape 307 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.640 of serpentine things or otherwise, could it be just an 308 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.480 earlier native culture living in the area who needed to 309 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.519 get rid of their stuff and they build a trash pit, 310 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.200 you know? Is that possible? Are there some sort of 311 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.680 evidence that has been excavated to discount that. 312 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.680 Yeah, lots of mounds have been excavated, especially in the 313 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:47.920 eighteen hundreds. Most of them that still exist today are unprotected, 314 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.000 so they don't let you dig into them anymore. But 315 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:56.960 the ones that were excavated in some cases did contain 316 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.480 valuable things that suggested burial. But in general, they the 317 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:08.759 bodies that were found nearby were not in the mounds themselves. 318 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.240 But they did excavate the mounds and they found that 319 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.720 sometimes they were very rich in organic matter, other times 320 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:23.599 it was absolutely none. Some mounds consist of as much 321 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:28.599 rock as it is earth. So there has been some 322 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.960 geologic study of these and they've had conferences. They had 323 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.440 one in Washington where all the experts got together and 324 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:41.160 they came up with an agreed upon origin for the mounds. 325 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:46.160 And in ohso scientific terms, the origin of the mounds 326 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.759 was described to be polygenic bioturbation. 327 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:53.559 Well, polygenics, so that's how more than one. 328 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:58.920 Source, that's correct, more than one origin, and bioturbation means 329 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.000 ground has been disturbed by living things. 330 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:02.480 Right. 331 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.079 So the ones in Washington, the Mima Mountains, the Mima Mounds, 332 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:13.559 they decided were built by gophers, pocket gophers us. 333 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.240 Well, they're centralized. That's the weird part about that. Even 334 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.599 I don't agree with that explanation because it's very centralized. 335 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.480 Why would it all be there? 336 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:24.079 There are no gophers currently living in the mountains. We 337 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.440 we can't find mounds that are being built today by 338 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:32.599 gophers like that. We do see moles and things build 339 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.759 little hills. I have gophers on my property, but I 340 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.160 don't have any mounds right behind you. Yeah, we're out 341 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.920 of my back horse right now. So I have a 342 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.720 mound on my property, But I put it there, and 343 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.200 I put it there because I am near the river 344 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.319 and I'm on a floodplain, and uh, it's a place 345 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.400 to put my vehicles so I don't have to move 346 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.759 them if the river comes for a visit. Now, there 347 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:59.240 is a very large group of mounds in Illinois called 348 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.680 Kahoki and it is right where the Ohio River joins 349 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.480 the Mississippi. So it's a very large mound group that 350 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:10.079 sits on a floodplain. 351 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.680 And lo and behold, the mounds are flat. Well to me, 352 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.759 the purpose of these mounds seems obvious enough. They needed 353 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.039 a place to go when the river got high, and 354 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.640 so they built these mounds with flat tops on them. 355 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:31.599 That makes sense, but it's still is difficult to explain 356 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.799 where they got this earth. And they have started with 357 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.839 the hill and just flattened it out. No, because the. 358 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:44.240 Hill that the mound sits on an otherwise completely flat 359 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:49.759 plain and it's a floodplain. But they're absolutely convinced that 360 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.319 they are of you know, intelligent creation, human origin, or 361 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:56.119 something else. 362 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.400 So my overall of you is that. 363 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.279 The extraterrestrial hypothesis factors in here as well, and that 364 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.359 is that thousands of years ago, a group of beings 365 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.160 showed up on this planet and decided to comfortably ensconce 366 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.960 themselves in the planet. 367 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:20.880 And then they may have had some hand in the 368 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.839 origin of humanity. But not to get biblical on you, but. 369 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.519 Even the Bible does talk about the beings from above 370 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.960 and the beings down below. And I even remember as 371 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.680 a kid in Catholic school that the angels came from 372 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.759 above and the devils lived down below, and they knew 373 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:47.079 each other and they interacted. They didn't necessarily get along 374 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.319 with each other. They were diametric opposites, and one was 375 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.759 seen as all good and one was seen as complete evil. 376 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:59.200 But it is interesting how what I have come across 377 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:05.000 as a viable possibility, isn't that far from the Catechism 378 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:08.000 that I was taught as a kid in Catholic school. 379 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:12.079 Now, these themes, whether you find it in the Bible 380 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:14.759 or an oral traditions there they permeate more than just 381 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:17.640 one culture. I mean, the Bible is essentially one particular 382 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:21.319 culture of these people back at that time, at that place, 383 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.680 but that's not the only place, as a lot of 384 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:28.160 these themes are found right and one of the themes 385 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:33.759 that occurs in almost every culture worldwide is the theme 386 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.559 of a giant flood, a Noah's Arc kind of thing. 387 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.519 Right now. 388 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:49.359 Geologists hated that idea of biblical flood until one particular geologist, 389 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.160 Jay Harlan Bretts, who was at the University of Washington, Washington, 390 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:59.160 came up with this giant flood that that ravaged the Northwest, 391 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.640 and it had to do with glaciers blocking a key 392 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.319 point in a river valley in the water backing up 393 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:12.039 through central and northern Montana, and then the glacier was 394 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:16.240 breached and this giant flood was unleashed. And for years 395 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:20.200 he was ridiculed and he could not offer an explanation 396 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.519 for where this water would have come from. Now it's 397 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:28.680 much better understood, and they can identify this area around 398 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.519 Missoula where there was indeed this giant lake and it 399 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.880 probably blew out and flooded the landscape more than once. 400 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:40.359 Now there's another guy named Randall Carlson who goes even further, 401 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:48.160