Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys,
Speaker 1: are you fav It's so like say subscribe and raid it,
Speaker 1: lip stock Sho and me.
Speaker 2: Question today and listening.
Speaker 1: Oh watchy Lin always keep its watching.
Speaker 3: And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: Hey, Bob, So what's happening? Man? Just lurking in the Northwest,
Speaker 2: just lurking on my porch right there. I can actually
Speaker 2: see you again. This is the second broadcast we've been
Speaker 2: able to do in person.
Speaker 4: I get sucked again. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Last time we did a podcast here in the porch,
Speaker 2: it was we did under a tarp, and of course
Speaker 2: the tart filled up with rain and dumped on Bobo's computers.
Speaker 2: That was a great Cliff dumped it. So Cliff dumped it.
Speaker 2: I guess that's the first time I've been accused of
Speaker 2: dumping in our presence. I know, I know that was
Speaker 2: what I was saying. Yeah, but you know, usually right
Speaker 2: now at Bobo and I kind of banter back and
Speaker 2: forth and catch up a wispen going on. But we're
Speaker 2: going to forego all that because we have a very
Speaker 2: very special guest and he is also in person. Right now,
Speaker 2: sitting across this little table on my back porch, we
Speaker 2: have the lovely and talented Tom Powell with us. Tom is,
Speaker 2: of course the author of a number of books. The
Speaker 2: Locoss was very, very influential a lot of ways. In fact,
Speaker 2: I think that was the first book to talk about
Speaker 2: habituation of any sort. And then he later came out
Speaker 2: with Edges of Science, where he went a little weird
Speaker 2: on the bigfoot thing, which is great because that is
Speaker 2: what direction he likes to go. And now he has
Speaker 2: a third book, a third book called Planet Strange. I
Speaker 2: have read the entire book cover to cover, and I
Speaker 2: really really enjoyed it because it strongly reminded me of
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies and in search of like Reading through
Speaker 2: Tom's book is like is like reading a synopsis of
Speaker 2: all the seasons of in search of all at once.
Speaker 2: There's a chapter on the pyramid, It's a chapter on
Speaker 2: the Bermuda triangle. There's a chapter on these mound things.
Speaker 2: There's a chapter on all sorts of weird stuff, cattle mutilations,
Speaker 2: cattle mutilations. Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff in there,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of fun to read. Now I
Speaker 2: gotta say I am Cliff. After all, I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: agree with all of it, but that I don't have
Speaker 2: to agree with something to enjoy it, right, Like I
Speaker 2: don't think Lord of the Rings is real, for example,
Speaker 2: but I really enjoy it. So anyway, So Tom Powell
Speaker 2: is here us, sitting at the table with us. Thank
Speaker 2: you very much, Tom for coming over and hanging out.
Speaker 2: Nice to be here.
Speaker 4: It's for the good dinner last night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a nice dinner over at Tom's house
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can talk about maybe
Speaker 2: on the Members episode. But Bobo found a handprint in
Speaker 2: one of our spots yesterday and I poured some plaster
Speaker 2: in it, so that was pretty cool. But Tom, since
Speaker 2: you're here, let's take advantage of your time. So another book, huh? Like,
Speaker 2: how long has this book been in the works? Probably
Speaker 2: three years. I didn't write every day, obviously, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't on again off a process, not including all the reading.
Speaker 2: I think one way to describe the book is it's
Speaker 2: a distillation of about twenty or twenty five separate books,
Speaker 2: and I sort of took the key ideas that some
Speaker 2: other authors suggested put it with some other thoughts of
Speaker 2: my own and came up with sort of something that
Speaker 2: approaches a unified theory of the paranormal, shall we say?
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. It reminds me
Speaker 2: of the grand utification theory in physics, honestly, where the
Speaker 2: physicists are out there trying to connect relativity with quantum
Speaker 2: physics and all and just trying to like to come
Speaker 2: down to one equation to explain everything, like the God equation,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: Is what it is. I call it pleasures, all right.
Speaker 2: So that's one of the things I think that you've
Speaker 2: been chasing for a while. It's like the grand utification
Speaker 2: theory of the paranormal, trying to connect sasquatches to UFOs,
Speaker 2: to mounds to whatever at the same And do you
Speaker 2: think that is achievable or do you think that these
Speaker 2: are actually separate a current separate phenomenon.
Speaker 5: They're seen by most as separate, and each of them
Speaker 5: has people who sort of research it to the exclusion
Speaker 5: of most else. But the problem that I faced after
Speaker 5: writing these other books is that there were still these
Speaker 5: open questions that I couldn't resolve. Where do the sasquatches
Speaker 5: go when they want privacy? Why is it that we
Speaker 5: can't take pictures of them? They seem inclined to avoid cameras,
Speaker 5: almost as if they understand what they are, and they're
Speaker 5: reverse to them for reasons that aren't real obvious to people,
Speaker 5: but to me it those are some of the questions
Speaker 5: that I was still searching for definitive answers to these questions,
Speaker 5: and I finally decided that it's not actually an original thought,
Speaker 5: but the idea is that if you can't find the
Speaker 5: answers that you're looking for, you have to widen the
Speaker 5: area of research and investigation, because it's probable that something
Speaker 5: is being overlooked or not factored in that that doesn't
Speaker 5: seem related but actually is.
Speaker 2: Well, I like what you're saying because, in my own way,
Speaker 2: being a quote unquote apor or whatever one side may
Speaker 2: call it the other, I'm kind of doing the same
Speaker 2: thing in a realistic way, because you know, I've approached
Speaker 2: these things like they're perfectly normal wildlife and we can
Speaker 2: study them as such. But at the same time, I
Speaker 2: think it's important to look at other disciplines like geology,
Speaker 2: for example, and see what other things we can learn
Speaker 2: from there that might factor in. Now you're doing it
Speaker 2: on a much different level and much other topics, of course.
Speaker 2: But I smell at your step in and so to speak,
Speaker 2: because I do the same thing. I look to other
Speaker 2: disciplines to help me understand my narrowed focus better. But
Speaker 2: I did notice that I think the word sasquatch probably
Speaker 2: appears no more than five times in your entire book.
Speaker 2: It's not really a Bigfoot book.
Speaker 4: No it isn't.
Speaker 5: I used the Bigfoot topic as a springboard, perhaps on
Speaker 5: the first page, and just review some of my conclusions
Speaker 5: in other books. But of course, you know, the more
Speaker 5: books you're write, the harder it is to say something
Speaker 5: that hasn't already been said before, either by me or
Speaker 5: by someone else. So finding something that is truly new
Speaker 5: and different is a little tougher each time. But I
Speaker 5: think by looking at some of these other disciplines, and
Speaker 5: looking at the research efforts of other people and other
Speaker 5: subjects suddenly some light bulbs went on in my own
Speaker 5: head as to connections that some of these things seem
Speaker 5: to suggest. A biggie is that there is this underground
Speaker 5: realm perhaps, and it's something that surfaces in a lot
Speaker 5: of Native American lore. They talk about the underworld, and
Speaker 5: how most tribes attribute their own origins to a subterranean
Speaker 5: realm that where their ancestors originated. So over and over
Speaker 5: again you run into these mentions of this subterranean realm. Now,
Speaker 5: the problem is, of course, it's very difficult to prove
Speaker 5: any of this stuff. But what you can do, I think,
Speaker 5: is look for patterns, and sometimes those patterns suggest things
Speaker 5: that are, if not provable, certainly credible. And let's just say,
Speaker 5: from such ideas you come up with explanations that may
Speaker 5: have been overlooked. For instance, the biggie for me is
Speaker 5: that the sasquatch, like other creatures us, want safe haven
Speaker 5: at times, and where is that. We walk around in
Speaker 5: the woods and we see these structures that sort of
Speaker 5: look like Tepe's without any covering on them, and people, oh,
Speaker 5: that's a sasquatch haven of some kind. And I look
Speaker 5: at the thing. I think that that doesn't provide shelter
Speaker 5: from anything. Yeah, they'd be terrible architects if that was
Speaker 5: the case. They're markers, I think, and and they may
Speaker 5: be markers of what some people call power spots, vortexes,
Speaker 5: things like that, other things that we've known about for
Speaker 5: a long time. The cathedrals in Europe are all located
Speaker 5: on what we're seeing at the time to be some
Speaker 5: sort of power spot, some sort of vortex. So the
Speaker 5: idea that these vortexes exist on the surface of the
Speaker 5: Earth is not a new idea, but it is a
Speaker 5: not very provable necessarily to science. They don't know how
Speaker 5: to measure these things and whatever power they represent, but
Speaker 5: they have been acknowledged for a long time, and places
Speaker 5: like Stonehenge and and so on we're located to take
Speaker 5: advantage of these places. Then of course there's the Bermuda
Speaker 5: Triangle and other places like that. Now people are starting
Speaker 5: to see that there are these vortex is and they're
Speaker 5: connected by what they call lay lines, and they pretty
Speaker 5: much cover the planet from place to place. And what
Speaker 5: these places exactly are we're just trying to figure out.
Speaker 5: But it does seem that energies exist there that are
Speaker 5: potentially quite strong. Have you been to Joe And yes,
Speaker 5: and that is also seen as one of these places.
Speaker 5: There's one here in Oregon on what's called Sardine Creek
Speaker 5: down by a crater lake, and there are a lot
Speaker 5: of other places too. Of course, Shasta is a well
Speaker 5: known I thought it was a lot more credible than
Speaker 5: I expected. I thought it was going to be a
Speaker 5: roadside attraction. And once they explained it, which Joe does
Speaker 5: a really good job of articulating the physics. Yeah, much
Speaker 5: better than they do with the Oregon Vortex, which is
Speaker 5: staffed by kids in their late teens early twenties at
Speaker 5: the time I was there. Joe and Tammy do a
Speaker 5: much better job of articulating the science behind this spot,
Speaker 5: which is in a very unlikely place along the approach
Speaker 5: to Glacier National Park.
Speaker 2: They are right on the flanks of this huge bathlift that.
Speaker 5: A giant piece of rock that was all once molten
Speaker 5: magma and it cooled into this just this giant stone
Speaker 5: the size of a mountain. And they think that that
Speaker 5: giant bathlith adjacent to their property has a lot to
Speaker 5: do with the energy that seems to exist there.
Speaker 2: Well, that would make sense because you know, the magma
Speaker 2: of course brings up minerals and whatnot from inside the
Speaker 2: mantle of the Earth, you know, and then that's where
Speaker 2: all a lot of like iron, for example, would be.
Speaker 2: So if there's any messing with say things like compasses
Speaker 2: or whatever like that, that would easily explain that sort
Speaker 2: of thing, right.
Speaker 5: And all the crystalline nature of the rock. When it
Speaker 5: cools slowly, crystals form. When rock cools quickly, it doesn't
Speaker 5: have time to crystallize. And something about the crystals is
Speaker 5: also sort of a touchstone that many people uh see
Speaker 5: as significant when it comes to where this energy comes
Speaker 5: from and and uh how it is used and so on. Now,
Speaker 5: of course I'm a science guy. I don't like bathe
Speaker 5: with crystals or use it for dealter or anything like that.
Speaker 5: But at the same time, you correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 5: But if I remember correctly, you actually have a degree
Speaker 5: in geology, right.
Speaker 2: I do not.
Speaker 5: I have a degree in environmental science. Oh, and I
Speaker 5: minored in geology. That's what I'm thinking. I had to
Speaker 5: choose an area of focus, uh in a degree that
Speaker 5: was sort of broad and and and intended for education,
Speaker 5: you know, teaching, and so yes, I focused on geology.
Speaker 4: There you go.
Speaker 2: I knew, I knew I had. I knew it was
Speaker 2: somewhere in your uh, in your academic background.
Speaker 4: Indeed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I do appreciate your thoughts on the structure
Speaker 2: of the Earth and the core. And then then like
Speaker 2: your knowledge of rocks and BATHOLISTH didn't know that word.
Speaker 2: I thought a bathylist was something that turned to the throne.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, more by the way, wearing a Dungeons and
Speaker 2: Dragon shirt. So I can say that so and only
Speaker 2: in like nine people in our listening audience. So just went,
Speaker 2: oh that's funny, Cliff, and everybody else said Cliss, I
Speaker 2: don't understand.
Speaker 5: Well, here's another geologic open question, and that is the
Speaker 5: existence of these mounds as they occur, not just nationwide
Speaker 5: but worldwide.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, back up, because, like I know that you've
Speaker 2: been really pushing the study of these mounds, because you
Speaker 2: mentioned there's at least one chapter in your previous book,
Speaker 2: which is a science about the mounds in general. For
Speaker 2: people who may not be familiar or who haven't seen
Speaker 2: in search of in the couple a few decades. What
Speaker 2: is a mound and why do you think they're important?
Speaker 5: Well, mounds are just these piles of earth. They're important
Speaker 5: because they're so poorly understood, so completely mysterious.
Speaker 2: Uh well, no, no, some of them are. Some of
Speaker 2: them are just mounds of piles of earth, as you say,
Speaker 2: but some of the other ones are are are I
Speaker 2: think we can say it's a little bit are a
Speaker 2: little bit more than just piles of earth, like the
Speaker 2: snake mound, and like the serpent mound. Rather, and yes,
Speaker 2: they called those effigyug mounds, So if they look like something,
Speaker 2: they're called effigy mounds, and the others are just mounts, right,
Speaker 2: animal effigies, Okay, is what.
Speaker 5: So the serpent mound is of course in the shape
Speaker 5: of a serpent with its mouth open, and it's got
Speaker 5: this egg shaped pile of earth that also is part
Speaker 5: of the whole structure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, these mounds aren't something like ten feet long. It's
Speaker 2: enormous and it's not clear where this earth came from.
Speaker 2: The mounds are in all kinds of strange shapes that
Speaker 2: a lot of them are geometric, and others are just
Speaker 2: giant piles, but really really big piles, but not naturally
Speaker 2: occurring sort of hills there they were Historically they were
Speaker 2: attributed to Native Americans.
Speaker 5: Now, the Native Americans themselves said those were here when
Speaker 5: we came, that we did not build those. But for
Speaker 5: some reason they just decided they were Native American mounds.
Speaker 2: Because they were here before white folks are therefore man
Speaker 2: made stuff before.
Speaker 5: Now to me, they are significant because they represent some
Speaker 5: sort of tailings from what I see as subterranean excavation.
Speaker 2: I think the effigies.
Speaker 5: One guy, Jim Brandon, a author of a book called
Speaker 5: The Rebirth of Pan, suggested that the mounds are there
Speaker 5: to confuse scientists, and.
Speaker 2: As a scientist who might be confused, like dinosaurs.
Speaker 5: In other words, the shape we we we argue over
Speaker 5: the orientation and how they they The mounds, like Stonehenge,
Speaker 5: point to the point of sunrise on the equinox and
Speaker 5: on the solstice, and so the mounds get people arguing
Speaker 5: over their significance. But what gets overlooked is the whole
Speaker 5: question of where did that dirt come from?
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 3: Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 5: And in many cases it's not all dirt, it's rock
Speaker 5: as well. So that led me to speculate that the
Speaker 5: mounds are indicative of subterranean excavations that were done probably
Speaker 5: thousands of years ago, and then the arrangement of the
Speaker 5: mounds was done, as Jim Brandon said, to confuse us.
Speaker 5: We argue over what the significance of it is, but
Speaker 5: we tend to overlook the question of mightn't these mounds
Speaker 5: be telling us that somewhere there was a whole bunch
Speaker 5: of dirt that just had to be gotten rid of,
Speaker 5: and that dirt suggests that there are substantial subterranean excavations
Speaker 5: where beings have taken up residents.
Speaker 2: Now, then let me ask you something, because when I
Speaker 2: was reading the mound section of your book, one of
Speaker 2: the possible explanations that came to my mind. You must
Speaker 2: have thought of this at some point is some sort
Speaker 2: of what are they called middens am I right in that,
Speaker 2: like you know, basically a trash pile by a group
Speaker 2: of native people, Like I know, there was a very
Speaker 2: large one in Emeryville, California. In fact, it's called there
Speaker 2: called Shell Mountains down there, because those native people mostly
Speaker 2: subsisted on molluscs and things from the ocean because they're
Speaker 2: right on the coast there, and they threw all their
Speaker 2: stuff up in there. And I read a great book
Speaker 2: by an archaeologist a number of years ago who was
Speaker 2: part of the excavation of those before they were torn
Speaker 2: all down. And sure, there's like needles in there made
Speaker 2: out of bone, there's tools, there's trash there's some human
Speaker 2: bodies in there as well, So it seems like they
Speaker 2: use these middens for just a disposal service of everything
Speaker 2: in their small villages and cultures in the area. And
Speaker 2: they dated back long I believe. I could be wrong,
Speaker 2: but I believe they dated back to a time that
Speaker 2: their oral tradition didn't reach yet. Could it be possible
Speaker 2: that these other larger mounds, whether they're in the shape
Speaker 2: of serpentine things or otherwise, could it be just an
Speaker 2: earlier native culture living in the area who needed to
Speaker 2: get rid of their stuff and they build a trash pit,
Speaker 2: you know? Is that possible? Are there some sort of
Speaker 2: evidence that has been excavated to discount that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, lots of mounds have been excavated, especially in the
Speaker 5: eighteen hundreds. Most of them that still exist today are unprotected,
Speaker 5: so they don't let you dig into them anymore. But
Speaker 5: the ones that were excavated in some cases did contain
Speaker 5: valuable things that suggested burial. But in general, they the
Speaker 5: bodies that were found nearby were not in the mounds themselves.
Speaker 5: But they did excavate the mounds and they found that
Speaker 5: sometimes they were very rich in organic matter, other times
Speaker 5: it was absolutely none. Some mounds consist of as much
Speaker 5: rock as it is earth. So there has been some
Speaker 5: geologic study of these and they've had conferences. They had
Speaker 5: one in Washington where all the experts got together and
Speaker 5: they came up with an agreed upon origin for the mounds.
Speaker 5: And in ohso scientific terms, the origin of the mounds
Speaker 5: was described to be polygenic bioturbation.
Speaker 2: Well, polygenics, so that's how more than one.
Speaker 5: Source, that's correct, more than one origin, and bioturbation means
Speaker 5: ground has been disturbed by living things.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So the ones in Washington, the Mima Mountains, the Mima Mounds,
Speaker 5: they decided were built by gophers, pocket gophers us.
Speaker 2: Well, they're centralized. That's the weird part about that. Even
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that explanation because it's very centralized.
Speaker 2: Why would it all be there?
Speaker 5: There are no gophers currently living in the mountains. We
Speaker 5: we can't find mounds that are being built today by
Speaker 5: gophers like that. We do see moles and things build
Speaker 5: little hills. I have gophers on my property, but I
Speaker 5: don't have any mounds right behind you. Yeah, we're out
Speaker 5: of my back horse right now. So I have a
Speaker 5: mound on my property, But I put it there, and
Speaker 5: I put it there because I am near the river
Speaker 5: and I'm on a floodplain, and uh, it's a place
Speaker 5: to put my vehicles so I don't have to move
Speaker 5: them if the river comes for a visit. Now, there
Speaker 5: is a very large group of mounds in Illinois called
Speaker 5: Kahoki and it is right where the Ohio River joins
Speaker 5: the Mississippi. So it's a very large mound group that
Speaker 5: sits on a floodplain.
Speaker 2: And lo and behold, the mounds are flat. Well to me,
Speaker 2: the purpose of these mounds seems obvious enough. They needed
Speaker 2: a place to go when the river got high, and
Speaker 2: so they built these mounds with flat tops on them.
Speaker 2: That makes sense, but it's still is difficult to explain
Speaker 2: where they got this earth. And they have started with
Speaker 2: the hill and just flattened it out. No, because the.
Speaker 5: Hill that the mound sits on an otherwise completely flat
Speaker 5: plain and it's a floodplain. But they're absolutely convinced that
Speaker 5: they are of you know, intelligent creation, human origin, or
Speaker 5: something else.
Speaker 2: So my overall of you is that.
Speaker 5: The extraterrestrial hypothesis factors in here as well, and that
Speaker 5: is that thousands of years ago, a group of beings
Speaker 5: showed up on this planet and decided to comfortably ensconce
Speaker 5: themselves in the planet.
Speaker 2: And then they may have had some hand in the
Speaker 2: origin of humanity. But not to get biblical on you, but.
Speaker 5: Even the Bible does talk about the beings from above
Speaker 5: and the beings down below. And I even remember as
Speaker 5: a kid in Catholic school that the angels came from
Speaker 5: above and the devils lived down below, and they knew
Speaker 5: each other and they interacted. They didn't necessarily get along
Speaker 5: with each other. They were diametric opposites, and one was
Speaker 5: seen as all good and one was seen as complete evil.
Speaker 5: But it is interesting how what I have come across
Speaker 5: as a viable possibility, isn't that far from the Catechism
Speaker 5: that I was taught as a kid in Catholic school.
Speaker 2: Now, these themes, whether you find it in the Bible
Speaker 2: or an oral traditions there they permeate more than just
Speaker 2: one culture. I mean, the Bible is essentially one particular
Speaker 2: culture of these people back at that time, at that place,
Speaker 2: but that's not the only place, as a lot of
Speaker 2: these themes are found right and one of the themes
Speaker 2: that occurs in almost every culture worldwide is the theme
Speaker 2: of a giant flood, a Noah's Arc kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Right now.
Speaker 5: Geologists hated that idea of biblical flood until one particular geologist,
Speaker 5: Jay Harlan Bretts, who was at the University of Washington, Washington,
Speaker 5: came up with this giant flood that that ravaged the Northwest,
Speaker 5: and it had to do with glaciers blocking a key
Speaker 5: point in a river valley in the water backing up
Speaker 5: through central and northern Montana, and then the glacier was
Speaker 5: breached and this giant flood was unleashed. And for years
Speaker 5: he was ridiculed and he could not offer an explanation
Speaker 5: for where this water would have come from. Now it's
Speaker 5: much better understood, and they can identify this area around
Speaker 5: Missoula where there was indeed this giant lake and it
Speaker 5: probably blew out and flooded the landscape more than once.
Speaker 5: Now there's another guy named Randall Carlson who goes even further,
Speaker 5: and she says that there was an impact a comet asteroid,
Speaker 5: a series of them that struck the ice cap during
Speaker 5: a glacial maximum and triggered an enormous melting of of
Speaker 5: the continental ice sheet, and the sea level worldwide rose
Speaker 5: three hundred feet in two days as this glacier was
Speaker 5: melted by the fiery impact of probably a string of objects.
Speaker 4: What elolation is your property?
Speaker 5: My property is one hundred and forty feet It would
Speaker 5: have been well underwater. Sure, And yeah, your mounds are
Speaker 5: going to help with that time for yours.
Speaker 2: I saw those yesterday. They're not going to help it all.
Speaker 2: Your boats are going to help you. I better not stop.
Speaker 2: I'll just keep adding. No. Anyway, there was this enormous
Speaker 2: worldwide rise in.
Speaker 5: Sea level, and this might also factor into the disappearance
Speaker 5: of this lost continent of Atlantis. It is it is
Speaker 5: suggested by many that the Azores represent a the top
Speaker 5: of a smaller continent that was submerged in this sudden
Speaker 5: rise of sea level. And there was indeed a place
Speaker 5: called Atlantis that got inundated by this flood. And they've
Speaker 5: dated the flood at twelve thousand years ago. They think
Speaker 5: that it probably persisted for as much as eight hundred
Speaker 5: to fifteen hundred years. That every year, when the Earth
Speaker 5: would go through the same part of its orbit, it
Speaker 5: would get impacted by another object and then more melting
Speaker 5: would occur and then the water.
Speaker 2: Would come up again.
Speaker 5: And it's a really fascinating idea that has gained a
Speaker 5: lot of acceptance in mainstream geology, but it certainly didn't
Speaker 5: happen at first.
Speaker 2: It was ridiculed. Yeah, like these crazy ideas like plate
Speaker 2: tectonics or something.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the guy, I don't know that guy's name.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's been there, yeah, yeah, he was never recognized
Speaker 2: as having a good idea there you know where. It
Speaker 2: was actually after his death that plate tectonics has become
Speaker 2: like the all the lands, so to speak.
Speaker 5: And they were able to verify plate tectonics through all
Speaker 5: of this undersea mapping that was being done as part
Speaker 5: of submarine warfare efforts. So essentially the CIA found the
Speaker 5: evidence that verified plate tectonics in the early sixties. Wegner
Speaker 5: suggested it in around nineteen ten, nineteen fifteen, and yes,
Speaker 5: he was ridicule right ahead, yeah.
Speaker 6: Some laughing long after your old Bill alliance has the
Speaker 6: rich tradition of stubborn unwillingness to consider new ideas, and
Speaker 6: this flood business, as Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock have championed,
Speaker 6: it is little by little catching.
Speaker 5: On with mainstream scientists, and to me it explains some
Speaker 5: of the mounds, the ones that were built on the
Speaker 5: Kohoki area of Illinois, but the ones in Ohio don't
Speaker 5: seem to serve any knowable purpose other than perhaps just
Speaker 5: to get rid of a bunch of dirt and try
Speaker 5: not to be obvious about it.
Speaker 4: I try to get Randald Carlson the Colonio Show because
Speaker 4: he has a theory on sasquatch.
Speaker 2: I've never heard that that would be interesting.
Speaker 4: It's around here somewhere.
Speaker 5: Randall Carlson, I think, is a professor in Atlanta, and
Speaker 5: Graham Hancock is an English cat who's got several books
Speaker 5: on these strange ideas that may not be as strange as.
Speaker 2: They first appear.
Speaker 5: But for me, the challenge has been to take several
Speaker 5: strange ideas Bermuda triangle, cattle mutilations, pyramids and mounds, crop circles.
Speaker 5: Each one of these topics is really comp cad would
Speaker 5: take a long time to explain the relevance, but to
Speaker 5: me they all seem to point in the same direction,
Speaker 5: and that is there may be what we sometimes would
Speaker 5: call multidimensional or other dimensional beings, but to me, subterranean
Speaker 5: is another dimension. I mean, granted, our planet is spherical,
Speaker 5: but we essentially inhabit two dimensions. You know, we go
Speaker 5: this way, we go that way. We don't go up
Speaker 5: very much except to fly, and we go down even less.
Speaker 5: But it could be argued that a multidimensional being is
Speaker 5: no different than a being that lives subterranean, because the
Speaker 5: subterranean realm, if there is one, could be thought of
Speaker 5: as another dimension.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 3: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: And we're putting the beyond in the Bigfoot and Beyond today,
Speaker 2: are we nice?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: Another one, it's kind of seems kind of out there
Speaker 5: but but may not be. Is this cattle mutilation phenomena.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you were telling me we're going somewhere
Speaker 2: together like a year and a half ago, and you
Speaker 2: were unloading all your research on cattle mutilations, and you know,
Speaker 2: and they happen. They happen. That it's unarguable that they happen.
Speaker 2: What's behind them is for grabs. But what have you
Speaker 2: come to settle down?
Speaker 5: On his first explanation, Well, there's this guy, Chris O'Brien
Speaker 5: who lives in New Mexico, who has done more research
Speaker 5: into this than anyone I know, and I saw him speak,
Speaker 5: I read his book, and I talked to him at length,
Speaker 5: and he is of the view that what is going
Speaker 5: on is this environmental monitoring program, and it has to
Speaker 5: do with pathogens that we may have accidentally introduced into
Speaker 5: our cattle. That is, our food supply is compromised. And
Speaker 5: all of the work that he and other people have
Speaker 5: done with cattle mutilation research seems to point in the
Speaker 5: direction of that that when a steer or a cow
Speaker 5: or a bull is killed under these circumstances, the parts
Speaker 5: of the body of the of the carcass that disappear
Speaker 5: are exactly the ones that would be used to indicate
Speaker 5: the presence of these certain pathogens called prions, which were
Speaker 5: introduced into the cattle herds, and it causes uh scabies,
Speaker 5: I believe is the is what sheep get and c
Speaker 5: j D is what humans get. It's called Crudsfeld Jakob disease.
Speaker 5: And it's it's caused by this living thing that's smaller
Speaker 5: than a virus, and it's called a prion. I think
Speaker 5: that's how you say it, preon or prion anyway.
Speaker 2: You say tomato, I say yeah, I say tomato.
Speaker 5: So what Chris O'Brien argues that it's an indication that
Speaker 5: something other than humanity is also availing themselves of this
Speaker 5: food supply, and they're very concerned about these prions because
Speaker 5: they're vulnerable to them as well. So we're sharing our
Speaker 5: earth's food supply with something. Is what they take away
Speaker 5: on these cattle mutilations is seen to be so it's
Speaker 5: a sampling, it's like a quality control thing. Ensities and
Speaker 5: the prions have been also introduced into wildlife herd, specifically
Speaker 5: elk and deer, and elk and deer are found to
Speaker 5: have been sampled, you know, mutilated, same thing that the
Speaker 5: tongue is missing, the little parts of the eye, that
Speaker 5: the little corner of your eye, and these are places
Speaker 5: where prions manifest that can be measured. And the other
Speaker 5: one is of course a fluid that is emitted out
Speaker 5: of the anus. And sure enough, cattle mutilations very typically
Speaker 5: part of.
Speaker 2: The eye is gone and.
Speaker 5: The anus everything else is left alone and meat and
Speaker 5: everything not touched. But we now understand something that we
Speaker 5: didn't understand even a decade ago, and that is these
Speaker 5: there is a way to test for prions. And those
Speaker 5: are exactly the places that you would use to test
Speaker 5: and those those are the things that are being removed
Speaker 5: when cattle is mutilated.
Speaker 2: Well, so I asked you this last night over dinner
Speaker 2: or right before dinner, about these cattle mutilations and your
Speaker 2: idea that they're actually our food source is being shared
Speaker 2: with these other unseen entities or whatever. And I asked,
Speaker 2: are there records of herders, you know, ranchers missing a
Speaker 2: large or any of their herd, and could that be
Speaker 2: used as an indicator for anything? What could we learn
Speaker 2: from that. It's a lot easier to know when something
Speaker 2: is messed with if it's put back.
Speaker 5: Sure, so the mutilation victims are more indicative than a
Speaker 5: cow that goes missing, because when a cow that goes
Speaker 5: missing and has never returned, maybe to go into the
Speaker 5: multi dimensional food locker.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, it could have been russelled, it could have
Speaker 2: want wandered off.
Speaker 5: And I had a job on a ranch for a
Speaker 5: while and they would put us on a horseback and
Speaker 5: ride around in the rim rock and look for the
Speaker 5: cows and push them all back down, and and we
Speaker 5: would lose some.
Speaker 2: But that's just part of ranching.
Speaker 5: So just because a cow disappears, it's it's hard to
Speaker 5: know what to at tribute that to. But when the
Speaker 5: cow is removed and then put back minus some body parts,
Speaker 5: then we have something that we can really speculate upon.
Speaker 2: So here's here's something I'm just thinking of. If if
Speaker 2: these beings are rating our food supply, why why wouldn't
Speaker 2: they just raise their own cattle to some degree, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, like as opposed to stealing.
Speaker 5: Hours because they perhaps inhabit this underground ground and cows
Speaker 5: are herbivores, no plants in the ground, kind of tough
Speaker 5: to manage a cow underground, keep it contained.
Speaker 4: Perhaps these places ground penetrating radar.
Speaker 5: Because they're too deep. Ground penetrating radar only goes down
Speaker 5: a few meters. They use it for looking at railroad
Speaker 5: grades a little. Yeah, that's a good question. I think
Speaker 5: there is just a limit to that technology right now
Speaker 5: as far as how deep you can see. But it's
Speaker 5: certainly getting better all the time. And I would sure
Speaker 5: love to know what the limits of ground penetrating radar is. Well,
Speaker 5: somebody knows, and they're going to email mat proud of it, right, Well,
Speaker 5: I'd be interested in that too. I would say that
Speaker 5: one of the ways we get information on what could
Speaker 5: be the under this subterranean realm is through excavations that
Speaker 5: were done especially for you know, military bases. There are
Speaker 5: these things called dumbs, and the dumb is an acronym
Speaker 5: for a deep underground military base. And there was a
Speaker 5: guy Schneider who claimed to have worked on them, and
Speaker 5: he went to ray Crow's Sasquatch meetings frequently, and Henry
Speaker 5: Franzoni would talk to him and he would tell him
Speaker 5: about the conflicts that would happen when they were building
Speaker 5: deep underground military bases and then they would inadvertently.
Speaker 2: Dig into a.
Speaker 7: Another cavity that was already inhabited, and so then there
Speaker 7: was a clash and and specifically one of these took
Speaker 7: place in Dulcy, New Mexico, and eventually they worked things out,
Speaker 7: but they did build the underground military base there and
Speaker 7: it's still there.
Speaker 4: And the first flor is a patch native that ran
Speaker 4: the all that he was the quarter of all law
Speaker 4: enforcement for the Hickory Reservation. He was the first law
Speaker 4: enforcement to turn in photos of calum utilations.
Speaker 5: Right there is dulc and so you get places where
Speaker 5: the cattle mutilations are happening, the mounds happen. It's it
Speaker 5: seems like there's a connection between what could easily be
Speaker 5: seen as separate phenomenon phenomena. And so that's what I
Speaker 5: basically did with Planet strange Is. I speculated as to
Speaker 5: a potential connection between seemingly unrelated and unexplained phenomena cattle mutilations,
Speaker 5: Bermuda triangle mounds, things like pyramids. The Egyptians did not
Speaker 5: build the pyramids. They didn't even have wheels. How you
Speaker 5: could build a pyramid without some sort of ability to
Speaker 5: roll the stones along.
Speaker 2: But there is no boat in Egypt today big enough
Speaker 2: to float one of those giant stones. And the stones
Speaker 2: were forty and fifty tons in some cases, and some
Speaker 2: of the stones came from five hundred miles away, the
Speaker 2: ones that are used to build the center of the pyramid.
Speaker 2: So the pyramids were not tombs. No, no body, no.
Speaker 5: Mummy, mummified remains have ever come out of a pyramid.
Speaker 5: Those are all in the Valley of Kings. But somehow
Speaker 5: it's got going that the pyramids were tombs.
Speaker 2: There is a guy who then.
Speaker 5: Wrote the book called Giza power plant, and he takes
Speaker 5: the interior of a pyramid, and from a chemical engineering perspective,
Speaker 5: he is able to attribute the structures to a power plant, basically,
Speaker 5: some kind of power generating station, and the same is
Speaker 5: true with the pyramids in Central America and Mexico. It
Speaker 5: does seem that, especially in the case of the Giza Pyramid,
Speaker 5: it broke, something caused it to overheat, and there was
Speaker 5: a tremendous explosion, and you can see the remains of
Speaker 5: that in the interior of the pyramid. Some of the
Speaker 5: stones are pushed out all in outward directions. So either
Speaker 5: the pyramid was decommissioned accidentally or on purpose, but it
Speaker 5: no longer functions as the power plant that it was
Speaker 5: built to be. The Egyptians did not do that, They
Speaker 5: just happened to be there, but somebody else using who
Speaker 5: knows what technology to move enormous stones great distances and
Speaker 5: then stack them up in ways that if they tried
Speaker 5: to do that using primitive means, they'd still be working.
Speaker 4: On two two million rocks stones.
Speaker 2: And the design of the pyramid.
Speaker 5: Absolutely defies the idea of it being a tomb of
Speaker 5: any kind, nor are there any decorations in them. The
Speaker 5: Valley of Kings is full of decorations and valuables and
Speaker 5: precious metals, but none of that in the pyramids. Well
Speaker 5: they saw all that because the grave robbers stole it all.
Speaker 5: Well did the grave robbers steal the bodies too? What
Speaker 5: what's the value in stealing a body? I think that
Speaker 5: that would be uh if anything, uh, sort of a
Speaker 5: bad luck.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 5: The early archaeologists had their share of bad luck when
Speaker 5: they brought the uh.
Speaker 4: Unearthed.
Speaker 5: There remains and and and uh and all kinds of
Speaker 5: bad luck happen to these guys.
Speaker 2: So you know, they used to trade mummies quite a
Speaker 2: bit in a Victorian era. The mummies were you know,
Speaker 2: like a kind of like a picture on your wall
Speaker 2: for a certain elite economic strata in that culture. In
Speaker 2: the European culture, they would just have mummies in their houses.
Speaker 2: Have a dead guy over, a gal over there, you know,
Speaker 2: hang it out. So so what, so what does the pyramid?
Speaker 5: How does this factor into my grand unified team of
Speaker 5: the paranormal? And for me, it says that an advanced
Speaker 5: race of beings inhabited the planet thousands of years ago,
Speaker 5: made some installations and used them for a period of time,
Speaker 5: and then for whatever reason left. They might not have
Speaker 5: left permanently, they might have actually just given over the
Speaker 5: surface of the planet to us, but they still maintained
Speaker 5: a contact with what's going on, and their vacation cabin,
Speaker 5: so to speak, is subterranean. There are other interesting possibilities.
Speaker 5: The Moon has all kinds of mysteries that defy simple explanation,
Speaker 5: and when it comes to setting up bases on other planets,
Speaker 5: even NASA agrees that the first thing you would do
Speaker 5: to get safe haven for your interplanetary travelers is comfortably
Speaker 5: ensconced them underground. You're protected from cosmic rays if you
Speaker 5: don't have an atmosphere, or if you have a thin
Speaker 5: one like Mars, and you can be warm, and you
Speaker 5: could fill it with breathable oxygen and then trap it
Speaker 5: in there and have safe haven. That would be much
Speaker 5: more spacious and reliable than anything you could bring with
Speaker 5: you by way of a module a capsule that you
Speaker 5: then set up so you would ensconce yourself underground.
Speaker 2: If you arrived at a new planet and wanted to make.
Speaker 5: An operating platform, it would be underground.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 3: Bogo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: So you have an entire chapter in your book on
Speaker 2: crop circles, which I of course was delighted to see
Speaker 2: as well, because of again, this is in search of
Speaker 2: to me, and I love it all. I'll say again,
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with it, but I love to
Speaker 2: hear people's is about it. And also this is one
Speaker 2: of those things in Bobo and I have talked about
Speaker 2: this kind of a lot. I hear all sorts of
Speaker 2: people telling me about how bigfoots could or could not
Speaker 2: be real, and they have an extraordinarily limited scope of
Speaker 2: knowledge on sasquatches compared to like my nerd friends and Bobo,
Speaker 2: who is not a nerd. You're welcome. I'm learning Nora's
Speaker 2: tom but and you know it reminds you of Renee
Speaker 2: to hint it. You know, without the facts, your opinion
Speaker 2: is worthless. That's something that he is attributed to say
Speaker 2: more or less that and I am pleading ignorance right now.
Speaker 2: I know almost nothing about the vast majority of these subjects,
Speaker 2: which is probably why I love the book and I
Speaker 2: enjoyed reading it so much, you know, because I can't say, well,
Speaker 2: that's nonsense or this.
Speaker 4: Is I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I know nothing. I know nothing at all.
Speaker 2: If you wrote a big Foot book, I'd be very critical,
Speaker 2: I'm sure, because because I'm a one trick pony, I
Speaker 2: just do big Foot stuff. I don't know anything about
Speaker 2: anything else. I don't care. But it's to see crop
Speaker 2: circles arise again, because it seems like I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a very nerdy group of folks looking into crop circles
Speaker 2: all the time, just like I am an English ass
Speaker 2: watching all this other stuff. Now, they don't only happen
Speaker 2: in England though, right like so, But but they happen
Speaker 2: in England more than anywhere else. So why would that be?
Speaker 4: Why would that be? We're pisters it.
Speaker 5: It may be that the makers of the crop circles
Speaker 5: are not traveling across space, but rather they live here.
Speaker 5: And it may be too that these UAPs UFOs whatever
Speaker 5: you want to call them, may have originated from across
Speaker 5: the galaxy.
Speaker 2: But it may be that they are actually from here.
Speaker 5: Now that there is another realm, or some people say
Speaker 5: another dimension, which is a little bit misleading, because you
Speaker 5: can't have a you can't just live in one dimension.
Speaker 5: We occupy three before if you count time, right, sure,
Speaker 5: and but three physical dimensions. If there's a fourth physical dimension,
Speaker 5: then you would inhabit that as well as all the
Speaker 5: other ones. So you could have an interdimensional being, whatever
Speaker 5: the heck that is. But again, a simpler explanation in
Speaker 5: my view, is that this dimension is just the subterranean realm.
Speaker 5: They may be three dimensional objects who eat beef and
Speaker 5: all the things that we do, but that they are
Speaker 5: reaching out to us and sending us communications by way
Speaker 5: of these crop circles, and we are invited to sort
Speaker 5: of understand them, and it's a test of our ability
Speaker 5: to make sense of them. And when we do, then
Speaker 5: it's possible that we will come one step closer to
Speaker 5: actually getting to meet these beings that are right now
Speaker 5: staying in the shadows.
Speaker 2: You see.
Speaker 5: It kind of does go back to Sasquatch in that
Speaker 5: you have this behavior on the part of the Sasquatches,
Speaker 5: that is, they are actively avoiding us, and they are
Speaker 5: specifically actively avoiding us trying to take their picture. I
Speaker 5: for years tried to do just that, and then I
Speaker 5: reached out to some of these sensitives and we tried to.
Speaker 2: Use lines of communication that are unspoken. Yeah, you go
Speaker 2: over this in The Edges of Science, which of course
Speaker 2: is building on your first book, The Locals, The Local.
Speaker 2: Back then, in the local time, you were more or
Speaker 2: less just a flesh and blood bigfoot guy.
Speaker 5: I did have a thirteenth chapter which was called the
Speaker 5: Coconut Telegraph, and it was all about this nonverbal communication
Speaker 5: and that it's possible, and that there are quite a
Speaker 5: number of Sasquatch witnesses who feel that they have communication
Speaker 5: at times with these things that are out in their
Speaker 5: outlying area. So I started looking into this, and I
Speaker 5: found that these people, which some people call horse whisperers,
Speaker 5: same thing, that they can tell what is afflicting the
Speaker 5: horse and health wise and recommend some therapies for the
Speaker 5: sick animal based on communication nonverbal communication with the horse.
Speaker 5: So these people often say, well, I can communicate with
Speaker 5: the Sasquatches too. So I said, all right, good, let's
Speaker 5: see you do it. And they said what do you
Speaker 5: want me to say? And I said, well, I want
Speaker 5: you to ask him if we can take their picture.
Speaker 5: And so one of these guys, Bob Faust, who studied
Speaker 5: under Shamans in Hawaii, did just that. He said, we
Speaker 5: guy Edwards, and I went out to the woods with
Speaker 5: him and he did his little seance attempt and then
Speaker 5: he said, can we see you? And the answer was no,
Speaker 5: it's a rule. I've never been seen. It's considered a
Speaker 5: screw up, and I'm not about to screw up now,
Speaker 5: So no, you can't see us. And then Bob Faust said, well,
Speaker 5: how many of you are there? And they response that
Speaker 5: he claimed was that, well there's two, there's just me
Speaker 5: and my son. Well where's your husband? And oh, he's gone.
Speaker 5: The Star people took him. Well is he coming back?
Speaker 3: No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but he went with the Star people. Okay.
Speaker 5: So I wrote all this stuff down and I had
Speaker 5: this chapter on the Coconut Telegraph and one of my buddies,
Speaker 5: who was proofreading at their locals, said, I think.
Speaker 2: You should leave that chapter out. It is not quite
Speaker 2: in the theme of all the other ones, I will say,
Speaker 2: And so he said, how about have that be the
Speaker 2: first chapter of your next book? And so I said,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 5: In a way I regret having done that, because now
Speaker 5: I would have I would not have had any regrets
Speaker 5: about rocking the boat at the time.
Speaker 2: No, that's pretty tame compared to ill Man.
Speaker 5: But anyway, so the coconut telegraph did appear in edges
Speaker 5: of signs.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't that a Jimmy buff reference.
Speaker 4: It is it is? It?
Speaker 5: It references inter island communication using coconuts to do a
Speaker 5: Morse coke. Uh And so that when the islands were
Speaker 5: near enough to each other that they could hear the clocking,
Speaker 5: that they would actually update them on on fairly local
Speaker 5: matters like who's carrying on with who and who is
Speaker 5: behaving in a scandalous manner. And then sure enough, when
Speaker 5: you get to the other island, they already know who
Speaker 5: you are because they heard from the coconut telegraphs. Anyway,
Speaker 5: so nonverbal communication and which is what you see crop
Speaker 5: circles And yes.
Speaker 4: We've got a coconut wildless specialists today, right.
Speaker 5: Uh So the crop circles are a test, a quiz
Speaker 5: of our willingness to sort of take it on and
Speaker 5: solve the riddles that are encoded in the crop circles.
Speaker 5: But there are things in the crop circles that suggest
Speaker 5: that they are very aware of aspects of our culture.
Speaker 5: And one of those was this Arasibo message that was
Speaker 5: sent out into space by Carl Sagan and Frank Drake,
Speaker 5: and was supposed to be received by ancient by distant
Speaker 5: civilization and then they would presumably message back to us
Speaker 5: and given the speed of light, it would be twenty
Speaker 5: five thousand years. Well seventeen years after they sent the message,
Speaker 5: they got a crop circle that referenced that. And it
Speaker 5: defies human capabilities to make such a highly complex message
Speaker 5: in wheat. People call it corn, but the English call
Speaker 5: all crops corn apparently, but it was actually in a
Speaker 5: wheat field, and it's really really complex. And they made
Speaker 5: changes to the message that was sent out into space
Speaker 5: as if to update it or correct it, and it
Speaker 5: gets very complicated without the ability to show illustrations, and
Speaker 5: mentioned the distinction the change from the original message and
Speaker 5: then the crop circle. Now, when we say crop circle,
Speaker 5: their actual name is glyph because they're mostly not circles.
Speaker 5: And you know, anybody with a stick could make a
Speaker 5: circle in the wheat, but to make a highly complicated
Speaker 5: kind of glyph is a long way from making just
Speaker 5: a simple circle. So the word crop circle is sort
Speaker 5: of a shorthand that is okay to use, but it's
Speaker 5: a little misleading at the same time. I understand why
Speaker 5: people go, oh, some drunk tavern owners went around and
Speaker 5: did that with a board, and it's like, no, no,
Speaker 5: they didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they filmed. Some people do it, of course.
Speaker 2: But you know, you look at the this information that's
Speaker 2: out there on Bigfoot documentary in Mexico Orpression.
Speaker 4: Those twelve acres up in the mountains of Mexico, twelve
Speaker 4: acres are corn like during a forty five minute fog
Speaker 4: bank they appeared.
Speaker 5: And it seems that it's not that different than the
Speaker 5: Nasca lines in Peru and all these other things which
Speaker 5: date back even as far as Eric von Dinikan and
Speaker 5: how he was going jeriots of the gods back in
Speaker 5: the seventies maybe late sixties.
Speaker 2: And I think there is.
Speaker 5: More and more willingness even on the part of some
Speaker 5: scientists to entertain the idea that that there are things
Speaker 5: that come and go from our realm. We live here,
Speaker 5: we're stuck here, but there are things that can come
Speaker 5: and go.
Speaker 4: That's really they crush our food, give us a message.
Speaker 4: It seems kind of bizarre.
Speaker 5: Well interesting, they don't the the plants are still able
Speaker 5: to grow in a in a genuine crop circle if
Speaker 5: it's somebody with a board. Then the plants are mutilated,
Speaker 5: you know, smashed, broken, they don't grow. But but the
Speaker 5: in genuine crop circles, at least the ones that the
Speaker 5: English researchers endorse as being genuine, the plants are completely
Speaker 5: still alive. And not only do the plants still grow
Speaker 5: even despite their bent shape, but when you take seed
Speaker 5: from those wheat stalks, it grows better than the seed
Speaker 5: from just a general uh seed crop of wheat. So
Speaker 5: there's something that is being done to these plants in
Speaker 5: the process of making these these these glyphs, crop glyfts,
Speaker 5: crop circles, if you will.
Speaker 2: Hey, nobodies to use the restroom. But he muted it,
Speaker 2: so you would never know that. So Bo just reached
Speaker 2: over and muted it and walked away. He muted it,
Speaker 2: then said I got to go take a leak and
Speaker 2: stood up. Well, maybe we should just carry on without him.
Speaker 2: For me, Yeah, I'm kind of thinking maybe, Well.
Speaker 6: If it doesn't seem like Bobo's coming back, I guess
Speaker 6: you guys should just carry on and we'll get Bobo
Speaker 6: when we get Bobo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if he does come back, everybody will
Speaker 2: know because he'll hear it. But it's been it's been
Speaker 2: a significant amount of time. I think, more than enough
Speaker 2: time to take a leak or do anything else he
Speaker 2: has to do back in there. But you must have
Speaker 2: forgotten we're in the middle of a podcast.
Speaker 5: Well, while we're switching subjects, I just want to commemorate
Speaker 5: the loss of a good friend and one of the
Speaker 5: best researchers of paranormal matters that I've ever met, and
Speaker 5: that's Henry Franzoni, who just died a few days ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he checked out earlier in the week on Thursday.
Speaker 2: I guess is what I understand, and it is a
Speaker 2: great loss Henry. And we had him on the podcast
Speaker 2: years ago, years and years and years ago. Here we
Speaker 2: did two hours with the guy, and he's become a
Speaker 2: patron saint of the paranormal in a lot of way,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I referenced him several times in Planet Strange, both about
Speaker 5: the subterranean realm because he had some knowledge on that,
Speaker 5: and then in the beginning of the book, I mentioned
Speaker 5: that he got me thinking about connections that I didn't
Speaker 5: see right away between the sasquatch and other phenomena that
Speaker 5: we don't understand. And one of his points of view
Speaker 5: that I embraced was just that when we're searching for
Speaker 5: answers and we come up wanting, widen the search factor
Speaker 5: in other possibilities that seem unrelated but may not be.
Speaker 5: So that was his encouragement, and I certainly took his
Speaker 5: advice and that got me started on this new book,
Speaker 5: Planet Strange.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Henry was a very good friend of mine. I
Speaker 2: love the guy because he was just so weird. It's
Speaker 2: so smart, you know. His ideas were just frankly bizarre,
Speaker 2: and I love that sort of stuff. I mean, I know,
Speaker 2: I kind of have a reputation of not like being
Speaker 2: a total curmudgeon and stuff as far as that goes,
Speaker 2: But that's not necessarily true. That's just other people's perception
Speaker 2: of me. I really do love weird stuff. I delight
Speaker 2: in it in a lot of ways.
Speaker 5: So he sort of pioneered the idea that the Sasquatch
Speaker 5: are intelligent enough to avoid cameras, and he opened my
Speaker 5: eyes to that possibility while I was still trying to
Speaker 5: deploy cameras. And he definitely sort of endorsed the view
Speaker 5: that no, they know exactly what you're doing. He did
Speaker 5: a really ambitious camera project in the Bull Run Watershed,
Speaker 5: which is where Portland's water comes from up in the
Speaker 5: Cascade Mountains, and so it's an off limits area that
Speaker 5: he got permission back when he was affiliated with Peter
Speaker 5: Byrne to put out a very elaborate camera system, and
Speaker 5: they had their cameras messed with repeatedly and sabotaged in
Speaker 5: ways that they felt were indicative of the fact that
Speaker 5: the creatures knew what they were doing, and the creatures
Speaker 5: were averse to what they were doing, and they had
Speaker 5: the ability to sort of derail their technology.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you know, I think that deserves a
Speaker 2: mention as well, because even in my realm of bigfoot research,
Speaker 2: where I treat these as a biological thing and you
Speaker 2: can use the biological approach on them, he was right
Speaker 2: there at the beginning too. I mean he was instrumental
Speaker 2: in Peter Burn's big foot research project in the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 2: which is where that camera project came from. Of Course,
Speaker 2: oddly enough, like ironically enough, I believe in fact check
Speaker 2: me of course, like everything else I say, but I
Speaker 2: believe Henry died on Peter Burn's birthday, what would have
Speaker 2: been his ninety ninth birthday, So there's a weird connection
Speaker 2: there too, which is kind of cool. And Henry, of
Speaker 2: course was instrumental in the early days of the Internet
Speaker 2: and bigfoot. I mean, ninety nine percent of bigfooters today
Speaker 2: are Internet bigfooters essentially, and none of them would really
Speaker 2: be here in this present form if it wasn't for Henry,
Speaker 2: because what he kickstarted it was called the IVBC Internet.
Speaker 5: Virtual Bigfoot Conference, right, and he was the coder who
Speaker 5: helped devise the whatever software you need to have this
Speaker 5: chat thing going.
Speaker 2: On, because you were in there right at that time.
Speaker 2: I was, Bobby Shore was there, Doug Hichek was in there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all the early luminaries were present. Even I was lurking.
Speaker 2: I never posted because of my shy and introverted tendencies,
Speaker 2: but even I was in there lurking around reading the
Speaker 2: greats at the time and what they were doing. So
Speaker 2: it was a fantastic time to be interested in bigfoot
Speaker 2: because the Internet was just starting to blossom, and Henry
Speaker 2: was instrumental. I mean, if I think it's safe to
Speaker 2: say Bobo's coming, but I think it's safe to say
Speaker 2: that if Henry wasn't around, there would be no bfro
Speaker 2: o today, there would be none of this stuff online today. Oh,
Speaker 2: here comes Bob's he's coming out the slide and glass door.
Speaker 2: Come on out, man. He doesn't like soci out here
Speaker 2: because Bobo is adverse to dogs like licking. She's like,
Speaker 2: who the hell are you to tell me what to do?
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it this. Come join us for the
Speaker 2: podcast because Tom has to leave. Got eight minutes. All right,
Speaker 2: Well Bobo's back, so any noise you here is Bobo
Speaker 2: settling himself in for example. For example, Well, Bubba, we're
Speaker 2: just talking about Henry Franzoni here, kind of giving us
Speaker 2: a small tribute to him. So yeah, we're going to
Speaker 2: re release that episode with Henry Franzoni in his honor
Speaker 2: this coming week, I guess.
Speaker 4: So yeah.
Speaker 2: I hope everybody enjoys it, and you can also see
Speaker 2: how far we've come, because I'm sure the sound quality
Speaker 2: isn't as good from those early episodes that we did
Speaker 2: that Henry is a part of compared to now. I'd
Speaker 2: like to think that, but then again, we're all holding
Speaker 2: around one microphone on my back porch right now, so
Speaker 2: maybe that's not the case.
Speaker 4: Ask piece of birchais just passed aways. There's also Jelly
Speaker 4: of the Month club song with him.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, all bigfoot music musician. A lot of deaths.
Speaker 2: It seems like everyone's gonna die. Me keep on rocking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So there you go, There you go. That that's our
Speaker 2: tribute to Henry's He was a good friend, a good man,
Speaker 2: and he will be missed.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't even believe he's gone. Honestly, I know it
Speaker 2: was not old Now.
Speaker 4: I got Susann Finerchik actually with his last book he
Speaker 4: had at his house. She got me the last one.
Speaker 2: Oh that's nice. That's I read his last book, of course,
Speaker 2: and I read his first book. Henry was nice enough
Speaker 2: to give me a pre release copy of his first
Speaker 2: book actually, when he just bounded up at Kinko's or
Speaker 2: whatever like that before it was released. He gifted me that.
Speaker 2: Back in the day, he was a good friend. He
Speaker 2: came over to the house for parties. Sometimes we'd sit
Speaker 2: down stair, we play music. Sometimes he'd always come to
Speaker 2: the museum and he loved the museum, which was really nice.
Speaker 2: You know. He always had good things to say, and
Speaker 2: he was also really encouraging to me. In a lot
Speaker 2: of ways, even though like he and I were pretty
Speaker 2: much diametrically was on Bigfoot, you know, like I would
Speaker 2: be hard to disagree with more with what Henry had
Speaker 2: to say about Bigfoot for me, right, but he was
Speaker 2: always encouraging to me, said, yeah, you keep doing what
Speaker 2: you're doing, man, like I hope you get an answer
Speaker 2: because I never did. It was basically the jis, you know,
Speaker 2: and I loved it, just like what a neat guy.
Speaker 2: What a neat guy is individual to say the very least,
Speaker 2: they don't they broke the mold after Henry, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Bit too, oh yeah, he and there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of Henry and Powell.
Speaker 5: He definitely got me thinking, like I say, in directions
Speaker 5: that led to this uh recent book Planet Strange. And
Speaker 5: he was totally supportive of the view that that yes,
Speaker 5: there is an underground realm and it's well understood even
Speaker 5: in certain intelligence circles. His dad was a State Department
Speaker 5: employee and did all kinds of spy stuff State Department,
Speaker 5: Yeah it is, it is, but yes, he said, oh, yes,
Speaker 5: an underground realm for sure. Uh, it's it's uh that
Speaker 5: a lot of the phenomena that we witness emanate from
Speaker 5: these entities that we share the planet with.
Speaker 2: Could be so tell them If people want to communicate
Speaker 2: with you in any sort of way, add to what
Speaker 2: they read in your book, or share something that they've experienced,
Speaker 2: how could they do so? Esp Probably right?
Speaker 5: Well, I do have an email address. It's th h
Speaker 5: O M dot P O W E l L at
Speaker 5: yahoo dot com. Other than that, the book is available
Speaker 5: at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and the name of the
Speaker 5: publisher is Hangar One, which is owned by Doug Hichek,
Speaker 5: who lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I think the easiest way
Speaker 5: for someone to get their hands on a copy of
Speaker 5: the book is to go to Amazon or close museum.
Speaker 4: Oh there you go.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and the NBC, of course has autograph cops.
Speaker 2: Oh indeed, so we're a little special there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You can get them off our online store.
Speaker 4: Or you can click the link in the show notes, or.
Speaker 2: You can click the link in the show notes, which
Speaker 2: is another good idea. You go, yeah, because I was
Speaker 2: outing for Matt Prude is always willing to supply the
Speaker 2: easy way out for you. Excellent. Any last words, let's
Speaker 2: see last words? Uh yeah, CNL, which is underground, I think.
Speaker 5: I obviously I can't prove anything, but I believe that
Speaker 5: I've found a set of patterns that all points in
Speaker 5: the same direction, and that is that we share the
Speaker 5: planet with some sort of beings that that want to
Speaker 5: stay in the shadows for now, but is definitely leaving
Speaker 5: us clues as to their existence, their whereabouts, and perhaps
Speaker 5: even their agenda. And little by little, I think they're
Speaker 5: just waiting for humanity to become sophisticated enough and worthy
Speaker 5: enough to join some sort of interdimensional or intergalactic community.
Speaker 2: Well you know, whether that's true or not remains to
Speaker 2: be seen, but at the very least I know for
Speaker 2: a fact it's a lot of fun to think about,
Speaker 2: and I really did enjoy reading your book, So I
Speaker 2: would strongly recommend people checking out the planets Strange.
Speaker 5: I think to me, the Sasquatch are a manifestation of
Speaker 5: this realm that it makes perfect sense to me that
Speaker 5: the Sasquatch and the extraterrestrials, if you want to call
Speaker 5: them nappy interdimensionals, do interrelate, and it may even be
Speaker 5: that there's a pecking order that the Sasquatch in a
Speaker 5: form do the heavy lifting but they are under their
Speaker 5: direction of a more powerful group of entities.
Speaker 2: There you go. That's the Beyond and Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we get a little complete. It's always Bigfoot and
Speaker 2: never beyond. All right, we'll suck on that for a while. Man,
Speaker 2: it's pretty done. That's a nutty thing to be talking about,
Speaker 2: and I absolutely love it. I hope everybody enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 2: Tom thinks so much for coming over to the house.
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure to have you here. My pleasure
Speaker 2: hanging out with all of us here and sharing your
Speaker 2: thoughts with our listeners.
Speaker 4: All right, we'll definitely be seeing you again. I like
Speaker 4: hanging out in your backyard. I'll be back over there. Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope it made a difference. All right, Bob,
Speaker 2: But why don't you get us out of here and
Speaker 2: we can shut the recording.
Speaker 4: Down here, take off leave. I'll surprimised you.
Speaker 2: I live here, dud.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, folks, thanks for joining us, and thanks
Speaker 4: to Tom Powell. Are good bro. Check out his book.
Speaker 4: All right, see y'all next week. Keep it squashy.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 3: If you liked what you heard, Please rate and review
Speaker 3: us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
Speaker 3: get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 3: at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Speaker 3: Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
Speaker 3: and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Speaker 3: Bigfoot and Beyond.