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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Ed Mumford from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I

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play at historic Ellis Park golf course here in Cedar Rapids.

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This is golf Smarter number nine sixty nine.

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Speaker 2: You must know this, and I'm sure your listeners know

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this from their own experience. When somebody takes a practice swing,

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it can be beautiful, effortless, fluid, perfectly balanced, lovely follow through,

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and literally seconds later when they step up to the

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ball for real to hit the shot, everything goes wrong.

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And of course the mainstream industry wants to fix that

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from the outside in saying, oh, you didn't do this,

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and you didn't do that, and all about technique. But

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if you take notice of yourself in your practice swing,

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maybe you're breathing deeply, maybe you're balanced properly, Maybe your

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shoulders are empty and relaxed. Maybe you're not clenching your jaw,

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maybe you're not gripping that four iron two tight, And

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then what changes in you? What changes in the golfer

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when you step up to hit the ball for real.

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Because the golf swing is only ever an outward manifestation

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of whatever's going on in the golfer.

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Speaker 3: Lack of awareness leads to increased tension which leads to

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poor results. With Jane's story, this.

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Speaker 1: Is Golf Smurder, sharing stories, tips and insights from great

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golf mindes to help you lower your score and raise

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your golf IQ.

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Speaker 3: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf

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Smurder Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jane, Hello, Fred, it's great to see you again, and

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thank you very much for asking me back.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely in your book came out, I've got to have

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you back on because we always like to go deep

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into this conversation that we've had multiple times, but it

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continues to develop as your writings continue to develop. Tell

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us about the new book.

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Speaker 2: Well, just to put what you've said in context, I

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was looking at a book that I wrote in twenty eighteen,

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twenty nineteen, which is Breathe Golf, and I was reading

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a chapter trying to put together a newsletter, and I thought, well, actually,

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if I wrote this chapter again now, I would approach

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it slightly differently because, yeah, my understanding and my insights

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I suppose from my own daily practice, they continue to develop.

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So it's a journey that doesn't stop. And I have

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students and readers who've told me that they've read my

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previous books maybe six times, and that they understand and

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more about what I'm trying to convey with my message,

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the more they commit to their own daily performance practice.

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So it's quite interesting. This new book. He asked me

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to hold it up, So here it is. It's called

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The athletes Ascent, and it's all about the relationship between

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deep practice and high performance.

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Speaker 3: And it's available now.

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Speaker 2: It is available now. It's on audio Kindle and also

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on paperback.

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Speaker 3: Did you read the audio book?

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Speaker 2: I did. I read everything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh great, great. Now you mentioned you mentioned

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the journey a moment ago. Yes, what's the destination?

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Speaker 2: I think it's greater self awareness and self understand And

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I don't mean that on an ego level or a

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personality level, but I mean something deeper than that. And

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it is a journey that doesn't stop, but a more

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self awareness. And I think this is so important because

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we're so caught up in technology and devices and this

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AI which I don't use on my zoom calls. I

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think there's a whole danger of going down human intelligence

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rather than allowing us to expand our intelligence and our

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gifts and our potential. But there's a there's a lack

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of self awareness. For instance, I had to go to

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the bank earlier. There is one surviving bank in the

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town al because they all the others close. But when

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I walked back, I was behind a lady, a young

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young woman, and she had a baby, a tiny baby

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in a like a cot that she was carrying in

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one arm, but she had her phone in the other hand,

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so she was paying more attention to the phone, and

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the baby was kind of dangling, and the angle at

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which she was holding it, you know, I was looking

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the baby had like a strap across it, but she

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has She had no awareness of the baby. It was

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all in the phone.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm.

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Speaker 2: And this is the sort of narrowing and dumbing down

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of the human condition and the journey the destination is

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to reclaim one's attention and to develop greater self awareness.

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Speaker 3: I may push back on dumbing down. I put it

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more of a distraction, yeah, than dumbing down, because the

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amount of information that's at our fingertips at any given

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moment is far superior than we've ever had in history.

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So I'm not sure if I would use dumbing down

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in that sense, But correct me if you see it

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a different way.

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Speaker 2: I suppose it depends on what arena. I mean, information, yes,

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is great. Information for its own sake is not so good.

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And communication yeah. But let's say for golfers and this new,

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but the athletes are centers. For tennis players, skiers, swim

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as all sports. Knowing more and more about technique, having

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more information does not enable one to be a greater athlete.

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In fact, that is a hindrance. So it really depends

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on the area that we're speaking about. Having. You know,

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my speciality, I guess my obsession through my life has

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been the performance of complex movement like the golf swing

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or the tennis serve. And it's only when the mind

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is quiet that the body can perform in the way

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that it really wants to naturally.

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Speaker 3: And the phone is definitely not helping your mind get quiet.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. I think it's doctor Izzy Justice.

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I think it's him. He's a neuroscientist.

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Speaker 3: I believe we've had him on the show.

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Speaker 2: Have you. Yes, A lot of students am interested in

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his work. I'm more about the practice of meditation than

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studying the neuroscience of it. But anyway, I think it's easy.

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Who said that the mind of teenagers and young people

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now would be considered a schizophrenic mind back in the

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nineteen fifties and sixties. Yeah, yeah, interesting scrolling through and

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having more and more bite sized chunks of information. But anyway,

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maybe are we getting we.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead?

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Speaker 2: It is something to consider when people come to read

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my books. So we've got Breathe Golf Connected Golf, and

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now the athletes are sent and many people wish to

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be quieter inside, and they wish to quiet in the

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mind and take up this journey of self awareness and

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self exploration. And the way they come to it often

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is that they've used a fullness app. But I do

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try to wean people off that and put the phone away,

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put the device away, and just sit quietly with yourself.

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So maybe it's that that's that's kind of missing, you know,

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from human society.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting. I've recently been using an electric caddy during

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my rounds of golf, and I've been testing two different

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units out and one of them has a screen on

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it that gives me relevant information to my golf game.

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But also it's Bluetooth enabled, so my messages and emails

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and phone calls pop up on the screen, and I've

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had to turn that off. I just found it too

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distracting to be able to focus on my game. And

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it's like, I don't I don't want to. I mean, like,

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if it's something from my wife or my children, sure

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I want to know about it right now, but they'll

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get in touch with me. But all the other stuff

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was just noise and I really was not thrilled with it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you say that because I was talking

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to a PGA pro at one of the local clubs

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here and he said that as pros now they're advised

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to put their scores they're around on an app on

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the phone. Yeah, And he said every time he takes

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his phone out of his pocket there's a work email

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or something from his wife and the children or you know,

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it's distracting, and he didn't want to do it. He

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wanted to have a card and a pencil and write

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his scores down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You get into your own habits too, You get into

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the way you do things and you're comfortable with them,

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and again it's a distraction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So.

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Speaker 3: This book, athletes Assent, goes beyond just your first two

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books were golf related, and now you're taking it out

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of a broader scope to athletes. That's right, I've been

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is that because you're working with a more diverse group

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of athletes just golfers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've always worked with athletes from many different sports

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right from the beginning, but it seemed that it was,

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you know, eighty percent of or seventy or eighty percent

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of those students or clients were golfers. So I decided

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to concentrate on Breathe golf and connected golf to start with.

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So breathe golf is really about quietening the mind with

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formal traditional meditation practice, because when the mind is quiet,

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the body can move more freely, and there is a

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connection between the meditative state and getting in flow. And

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then Connected golf was about my lifelong experience in the

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martial arts, particularly tai Chi, which I've practiced since nineteen

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eighty seven, and it was about certain principles of movement,

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fundamental movement principles from tai chi that apply to golf,

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but exploring that for other athletes. It was quite a

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natural jump because a lot of people think when they

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take up golf they have to learn a whole new

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set of movements, and I think that can be I

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do think that's quite true. I think a lot of

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people over complicate golf. In fact, I've heard of some

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experts who divide the golf swing, which is one point

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eight seconds of movement, they divide that into a hundred

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different moves. So here we're back to, you know, too

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much information. But it's interesting the timing of the book

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because we've seen tennis players who retire and take up

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golf and they're brilliant at it. I mean, if you

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ever seen Martina and Nevratlova's golf swing, I mean, it's fantastic.

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Roughly on Nadal now Andy Murray. You know. So there

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are fundamental movement skills which are common across all sports,

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and of course we can train those movements in the

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martial arts particularly, and then apply those movements that we've

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learned to whatever sport we're doing. And in fact, never

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at a lovers. She said at one point that an athlete,

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a true athlete, should be able to turn their hand

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to any sport. So you can ski, you can swim,

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you can play tennis, you can shoot or whatever. It

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seems quite right to me, wouldn't you say.

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Speaker 3: There are some athletes that do pick up golf quite

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naturally and they're incredible at it. And then there are

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some like we've had this Charles Barkley, you know, fiasco

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watching him play golf and how difficult it is, and

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it's like, why is this not a coordinated movement? You

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would think that athletes can just transition into golf as

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a life sport that they can continue playing and as

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social as well as just being a sport, but also

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the social element to it. You'd see that it's an

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easy transition for them.

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Speaker 2: To Michael Jordan take up golf as well.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Michael Jordan is an incredible golfer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And Steph Curry is you know, yeah, Steph Curry has

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tried to play on the minor circuit. He played in

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the web dot com. But you know, he talks about

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once he's finished playing golf playing basketball professionally, the golf

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is his next step. Yeah, yeah, Michael Jordan. But Michael

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Jordan is a serious gambler, so like he'll he'll play

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rounds of golf for one hundred thousand dollars and probably more.

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We've heard rumors as such.

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Speaker 2: Didn't Phil Michelson go down that route at one time

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as well?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Well golf's a gambling game. I mean, yeah,

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for many people, that's the start. Yeah, very funny. How

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was the response to your first two books? And is

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that what motivates you to continue to write and write

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a new book?

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Speaker 2: The response is, I suppose it's a bit like well,

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I was trying to think of a comparison, like say

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Joni Mitchell, she sort of complained early in her career

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that her records weren't selling and she wasn't mainstream, But

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then on reflection she's like, well, actually I didn't want

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to be a human jukebox, you know. And her stuff

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is positioned slightly outside of the mainstream. Absolutely, And I

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would say my work is the same. It's always very

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well received, but it's not why I do what I do.

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I do what I do because it's been a lifelong

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fascination of mine. I was very shy, very introverted when

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I was a child and a young woman. In fact,

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even until I was in my mid thirties, I was

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very shy, very introverted, and I you know, I've spent

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a long time overcoming that. So I understand when people

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are nervous. I understand what performance anxiety is all about

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and I've been trying to write about that from my

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experience of meditation and the martial arts and going beyond

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this psychological approach, the mental game approach, which has been

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around for the last fifty years. So I'm trying to

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bring something new. But yeah, my books are very well received.

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I mean, they've got four and a half stars and

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new one's got five stars on Amazon. Curcula. Well, yeah,

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but you know it's not it's not it's not everybody's

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cup of tea because not everybody can do what I'm

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what I'm suggesting they do, or I would.

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Speaker 3: Want to, right, right, But we want to make this

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relevant to golfers today. But I'm now I'm curious to

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ask you about your shyness and introversion. How you how

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you feel like you did come out. I consider myself

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an outgoing introvert, okay, right, so that if you put

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me in a situation where I know people, you know,

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in a group situation and I know the people, I'm

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I'm quite outgoing. But if you put me in a

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group situation where I don't know people but maybe my

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wife knows everybody there, but I you know, which is

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regularly the case that she knows a lot more people

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that I do. But I'll find myself just being to

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my myself. If I don't walk up to people and

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start chatting and things.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, I suppose the teaching is what brought

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me out of myself. Yeah, I was asked, you know,

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around I don't know, maybe nineteen ninety five, ninety seven.

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I was asked by some of my friends if I

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show them some tai chi moves. So I hired a

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little hall and I started showing them a bit of

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tai chi. And yeah, I can remember so many times

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in my life where things were difficult or I had

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to move house, or relationship broke up, or even you know,

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when I when I would lose people. I've lost my

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mom and dad, I've lost my best friend, another friend.

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But driving to a class, this is all pre COVID

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days because now everything's on zoom. But driving to a class,

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even if I was felt worried or anxious about something

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in myself or upset, it was all about teaching, you know.

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It was all for that. So that's really what's brought

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me out of myself. But I have a practice, and

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that is what I'm trying to bring to people as

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a daily performance practice based on traditional ways and traditional

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methods of seated meditation, standing meditation, slow motion exercises, breeding exercises,

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self awareness, self observation, all of these things. So I

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practice what I preach, and all of that helps. I

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can still be introverted, but I can speak about my

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subject right right.

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Speaker 3: Interesting the slow motion, especially in golf. I was introduced

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to it early in the podcast series and found it

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incredibly difficult to do a practice golf swing, not when

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I'm on the golf course, but just when I'm practicing,

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to try to slow the swing down, to break it

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down to you know, a slow motion golf swing. I

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found it to be so challenging.

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Speaker 2: It is very challenging. And I ask people to take

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thirty seconds and I time them, and they'll start off

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quite slowly, and then they kind of whizz through it,

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and maybe they've taken eight or twelve seconds in thirty seconds.

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Speaker 3: I can imagine.

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Speaker 2: But what's It's the approach that needs to be slightly

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different with a slow motion golf swing, so you're not

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necessarily you don't necessarily have to look at the swing.

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What's interesting about the slow motion swing is to find

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where is movement initiated from? How does this movement begin?

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Not what I've been told, but in my own body,

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in my own intention. How does this movement begin? And

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what continues that movement? If I turn too far? Do

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I lose the structure in my lower body? If I

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don't separate my upper body from my lower body? I e.

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If I turn my hips too far? When does my

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knee start to buckle and my legs start to collapse inwards?

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Am I gripping the club too tightly? Do I pause

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at the top? Do I compress? Do I empty my

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body at the top? Do I see that my thoughts

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are going all over the place. So there's so much

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to learn by observing oneself, because you must know this,

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and I'm sure your listeners know this from their own experience.

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And I've stood behind golfers watched them. When somebody takes

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a practice swing, it can be beautiful, effortless, fluid, perfectly balanced,

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lovely follow through, and literally twenty seconds later, when they

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step up to the ball for real to hit the shot,

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everything goes wrong. And of course the mainstream industry wants

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to fix that from the outside in saying, oh, you

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didn't do this, and you didn't do that, and blah

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blah blah, all about technique. But if you, if you

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take notice of yourself in your practice swing, maybe you're

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breathing deeply, maybe you're balanced properly, Maybe your shoulders are

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empty and relaxed. Maybe you're not clenching your jaw, maybe

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you're not gripping that you know, four iron two tight

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or whatever it is. And then what changes in you?

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What changes in the golfer when you step up to

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hit the ball for real? Because the swing, the golf

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swing is only ever an outward manifestation of whatever's going

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on in the golfer. Surely you don't suddenly forget everything

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you know about technique. Do you two great practice swings,

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step up to the ball. Oh god, it all goes wrong?

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Why is that? You know? And that's really what I'm

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when I'm trying to answer in my books.

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Speaker 3: So I do want to talk about this book because

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I've been enjoying reading it and there's some things that

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jumped out to me that I wanted to pursue with

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you even deeper. And that's even early on in the book.

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You say, the harder you try, and the more act

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of your mind, the more disjointed or disconnected your movements become.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I do say that you did.

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Speaker 3: I want you to talk about that.

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Speaker 2: About that, I think when people have had a wonderful

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experience of being in the flow state, and I know

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that I've had that experience in meditation, in running when

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I was a bit younger, in swimming, walking through the park,

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and people I'm sure listening have had that experience in golf.

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When that experience arises, the mind is invariably quiet and

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there's a beautiful connection between the mind and the body,

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which is what these Eastern practices that I'm encouraging people

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to develop in a daily performance practice is what they're

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all about. For instance, when you sit in meditation, you

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are aware of your breathing, but that subtly changes your

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posture and it quietens the mind. So in the East,

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they don't have the mind in one camp and the

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body in another camp as we do here. There's your psychologist,

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your mentor game coach, there's your technical coach. In the East,

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in karate, in kung fu, in swordsmanship, in calligraphy, in

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the tea ceremony in Japan, in archery, they would think

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that's absolutely ludicrous. So if we wish to bring the

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mind and the body together, we need to quieten the

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mind because it wants to take over. It just wants.

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It thinks it's playing golf, and really it isn't. So

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the mind has one job and the body has a

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different job. The mind is for the thinking mind. The

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analytical mind is for thinking, organizing, processing, ticking things off

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your to do list, analyzing your swing when you're on

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the range perfect. But when you want to release your

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swing in an effortless way in the middle of a game,

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that analytical mind must be subdued so that the signal

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about or the intention that you have for the shot,

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the signal is not captured by the pre front to

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a cortex which wants to analyze and get it right

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and have this list of things that you need. You

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need to accomplish in order to get that shot, because

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in the flow state, it's just going to happen. You

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balance perfectly, you're moving perfectly. Lower body is nice and stable,

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the upper body is fluid, You hit perfectly, you accelerate

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through the shot. Everything's great. So it's all about My

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work is all about creating that ideal performance state before

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you start moving, and part of that is to quieteren

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the mind.

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Speaker 3: And I'm curious because you even mentioned before that, you know,

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the golf swing is one point eight seconds. In the mind,

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there's there's during that time, there's a lot of we

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put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We tighten our bodies.

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We're not as loose as we should be because we're

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because you only get this one shot to you know,

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to hit this ball the way you want, you know

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to hopefully you have intention in this shot and you

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follow through on that intention. But then afterwards, so quieting

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the mind there is one point. But the other part

401
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is afterwards, as you're going to the shot is complete

402
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and you're going to your ball for the next one,

403
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there's a lot of noise in your mind then too,

404
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and that's minutes worth. It creates more tension and more

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pressure on you for the next shot.

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Speaker 2: That's how the majority of people approach golf. But there

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is a different way to approach it.

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Speaker 3: Awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you have a daily performance practice, let's

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say you develop a performance practice of fifteen to twenty minutes.

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Can be longer, but let's say let's say fifteen to

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twenty minutes to start with where you sit quietly and

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you follow your breathing, just like the Buddhist monks do,

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quietly aware of the center of the body, aware of

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your posture, seeing the thoughts come coming back to your breathing.

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No gimmicks, no gadgets, no aps, just you and your breathing.

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Or you practice standing meditation, so you become keenly aware

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of your body and your posture, your balance. Maybe you

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practice slow walking, maybe you do breathing exercises, Maybe you

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practice intentional self awareness. Maybe you build up a practice

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which contains some of all of these things, and then

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maybe you go on to develop a specific organization of

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these practice. Before tournaments, you might have rest days, like

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when I've worked with tour players, they'll have seated meditation

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on days that they're traveling, but days that they're competing

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they'll ramp up their practice and do maybe standing like

427
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chigun training. So therefore, instead of your mind, you know,

428
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deconstructing the shot and thinking of all the things that

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went wrong and all the things that you can fix.

430
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When you're walking down the fairway, you can open yourself

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to nature, be aware of your surroundings, have some kind

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of joy and gratitude, for being out there, become more

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00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:49,200
self aware. Reflect. Okay, so my shoulders were a bit

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tight last time I rushed. I need to slow down.

435
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My mind was too busy. So rather than criticizing the

436
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golf swing and saying this was wrong, that was wrong.

437
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I've got to fix that. Rather become intentionally self aware,

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curious about your own self. Did I rush? Was I

439
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balanced properly? Was I in my center? Because there's all

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there's There's a beautiful quote that I've put in the

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athletes's ascent, which is from a tai Chi master Master

442
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Kai spelled c Ai master Kai, and it's about when

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we are aware, we are relaxed. As soon as I've

444
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become self aware, I tend to I relax and maybe

445
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you have to practice that for some time. But awareness

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is I'm aware of my body. I'm comfortably in my body,

447
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and my body is relaxed. And if I stay with that,

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then my chest empties, the shoulders relax. Now I'm breathing

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down into my lower abdomen, and so it goes. Lack

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of awareness leads to tension. Lack of awareness is my

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thoughts are now taking over. I'm thinking about what I'm

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going to do. When I get up to this ball,

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all the things that my coach told me, all the

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things that I've got to fix. I've got to keep

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my head down, I've got to turn more through the ball.

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I've got to shift my weight, I've got to do this,

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I've got to do that. So really, what I'm advocating

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is a different game. It's the same game, but it's

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a different approach to the game.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's the same game, but it's a very different

461
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approach because then it's not just when you're on the

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practice range and not when you're just on the golf course.

463
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It's a life practice exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: And this is what makes it so seamless, because you're

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doing the same practices in the morning in your lounge

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or your office or wherever, drive into the golf club,

467
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standing over the ball, walking down the fairway at home

468
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with your partner. In the evening. It's the same thing.

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And this is what makes it so powerful, because you're

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building up reserves of attention, of awareness, of inner relaxation,

471
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of calm. It's a lifetime deal. Yes, for sure.

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Speaker 3: There's so many professional athletes. We'll talk about professional athletes

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that you've worked with, are young people. I mean, at

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most they're in their early thirties, right, and with the

475
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:58,760
success that they've had throughout their lives to get them

476
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,159
to a point of being a professional athlete, which is

477
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,320
elite status right there, they're pretty I don't want to

478
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,840
say cocky or arrogant about what they do and how

479
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,360
they do it, but they probably think they have all

480
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,480
the answers. So I'm just curious as to the resistance

481
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:25,840
that you get from them for trying to do a

482
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,639
life practice on something that will slow their energy down

483
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,079
and you know, center.

484
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: It that well, yeah, it is. It is tricky because

485
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:46,760
the ego often gets in the way. Yeah, yeah, it

486
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,800
really does. And I'm not going to give any names,

487
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,480
of course, but I have worked people and taken them

488
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:59,559
from Q school, you know, right up to winning majors

489
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:05,440
and being part of elite teams in the space of

490
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,440
two or three seasons. And then of course they think,

491
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,599
oh I've got that, now I know everything, and you know,

492
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,679
they decide that they can carry on on their own,

493
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:19,880
and in the last season, their whole game's just you know,

494
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:26,119
gone south. So we do have to be very careful.

495
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,920
And I mean I've had a lot of teachers in

496
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,360
my life. I have been practicing for a very long time,

497
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,119
and I practice every day, and I think it's important

498
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,360
for people, you know, if they're going to talk about

499
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,239
meditation in any way, shape or form, that they have

500
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,440
a practice other why and most people don't, you know,

501
00:36:51,679 --> 00:37:00,679
Otherwise it becomes a psychological approach, which is as I

502
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,039
said a bit earlier, this is, you know, people have

503
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:08,480
approached the flow state or the zone as a psychological state.

504
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,159
Mostly people talk about a focused you know, a focused

505
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,559
mental state, and it really isn't a focused mental state.

506
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:23,480
We need to find different words for it. A student

507
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:28,559
of mine earlier today he coined a term. He said

508
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:34,800
it was a mixture of awareness and intuition. Other people

509
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:43,360
talk about a sense of knowing and knowing, and another

510
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,599
person recently has talked about a faith and a belief

511
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,360
that they can make that shot. So it is not

512
00:37:52,400 --> 00:38:00,360
a mental focus. But unless one has a performance as

513
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,239
a daily practice of quieting the mind, it's very difficult

514
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,360
to understand that, which is why I said at the beginning.

515
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,280
You know, if I wrote my Breathe golf again, I'd

516
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,199
write it differently because I've had, you know, another eight

517
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,960
years of practice on top of that, not to say

518
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,719
that it's not totally valid still, because it is and

519
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,880
why people read the books again and again and again, which.

520
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: Is a beautiful thing. Congratulations, Oh, thank you.

521
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot of works gone into it.

522
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, my wife wrote

523
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,719
a book and everyone keeps saying so when you're writing

524
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,800
your next one, she's like, I can't do another one.

525
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,199
So the fact that you've done three now is on

526
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:57,719
this topic is pretty remarkable, Pretty remarkable, indeed. Congratulations. Yeah,

527
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:04,039
let's talk about stillness. And I'm just going to open

528
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:08,000
the door like that, because you know, I've had other

529
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,320
golf instructors talk about stillness in the body, in the

530
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,320
mind and the swing, you know, leading up to the swing.

531
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,920
But I want to I want to get your take

532
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,960
on stillness, especially your line about stillness is the master

533
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:26,159
of motion. It's so powerful.

534
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 2: That's a line from the tai Chi classics where they

535
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,800
say stillness is the master of motion, and it is

536
00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:39,440
if you apply it to golf. As I've said and

537
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:46,360
I've written about most golf coaches, most people deconstruct the

538
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,599
golf swing after the golfer has performed the golf swing.

539
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,039
So all the coaches will say, oh, you didn't do this,

540
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,440
or you didn't do that properly, or you forgot that,

541
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,440
or this wasn't right or that wasn't right, and they

542
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,960
try to tinker with the swing as if it was

543
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,440
a machine with so many moving parts. Well, fiddle with this,

544
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:10,440
we'll tighten that screw, we'll loosen that, will change that.

545
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:18,320
And as I've said many times, it's the quality of

546
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,679
the setup, the quality of this relaxed readiness that I

547
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,119
talk about. Like a kung fu warrior would have a

548
00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:31,199
sense of relaxed readiness in the body before they deliver

549
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,880
a puncture fight or whatever. The same in archery, a

550
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:43,280
relaxed readiness in golf up tightness and a checklist, you know,

551
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:51,639
which is where where most people approach it from. But stillness,

552
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,199
like everything else. I mean, people can talk about it,

553
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,840
but to train it, to practice it, or to actually

554
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:04,480
find it in oneself, you may need to go through

555
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:08,719
a period of weeks or months or longer to quiet

556
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,800
and down all the stuff that goes on, all the noise,

557
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:19,320
as you've mentioned noise before, all that chatter. You know,

558
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:25,440
it's behind underneath all that chatter. It's not in the chatter.

559
00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:30,679
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I loved how you use the word

560
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,639
you find it. It's not like a manifestation or you

561
00:41:33,679 --> 00:41:36,840
cannot create it. You have to find it.

562
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: Yes, and you do. And also when is very very subtle,

563
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,159
because if somebody says I'm going to quiet in my mind,

564
00:41:48,199 --> 00:41:50,880
I'm going to sit in meditation, I'm going to quiet

565
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,519
in my mind, it's not quite the right way of

566
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:02,559
articulating what actually happens I sit in meditation. If I

567
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:10,280
bring my awareness continually back to my breathing, my mind

568
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,639
will quiet and down. There's a completely different way of

569
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:21,960
expressing it based on having a practice, rather than people

570
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:26,599
saying it's a highly focused mental you know, form of

571
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:34,320
mental attention or mental focus. So in my books and

572
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,159
with my students and clients, I really try to get

573
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,400
people to express what is it that you mean? What

574
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,559
do you mean? What is the right word to use

575
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:53,400
for this? Because it makes a big difference.

576
00:42:54,159 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 3: It really does. And I can imagine there's people listeners

577
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,559
who are like, yeah, this that's not for me, you know,

578
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,400
but it might be it could be for you. But

579
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,719
you gotta try it. You gotta start with the first step.

580
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: I think in years to come, maybe long after I'm

581
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:24,039
dead and gone, I think it will be where athletes are.

582
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,239
It has to be because if everybody in the Eastern world,

583
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,400
that all the taie chee guys, all the kung fu guys,

584
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,760
all the karate guys, all the samurai warriors, all the

585
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:47,480
archers on horseback, all of these traditions, Zen, Buddhism, calorie,

586
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:53,639
the amazing Indian martial art, they're all based on intention.

587
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,880
And the body trained in this a way that's relaxed

588
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:05,039
but ready, so it can respond to intention. But in

589
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:08,840
sport it's here's the psychologist, a mental going to go,

590
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:12,559
here's the technical coach. These guys don't talk to each other.

591
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,000
So in the golfer, the mine is doing one thing

592
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,000
and the book the mind's trying to direct, and the

593
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,679
body cannot follow because it's not meant to the mind

594
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,559
is not meant to direct movement. Which is not to

595
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:30,440
say that we cannot have an intention for movement. But

596
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:34,199
intent is not the same as thinking. In fact, her

597
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:39,119
type Grandmaster, a woman in this country and a Chinese

598
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:41,840
lady who lives in the north of England. She at

599
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,440
once explained it as having for intent. Pure intent must

600
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:54,079
have the mind must be so quiet to have a

601
00:44:54,239 --> 00:45:00,159
very clear intention to which the body can then respond.

602
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:04,519
So it's definitely a journey, and it definitely isn't for

603
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:08,079
everybody right now, but maybe in the future it will

604
00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:11,599
be just the way things will develop. I hope so,

605
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,719
because so many of my students and clients get that

606
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,480
tremendous amount of joy from their golf and their sport,

607
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:25,880
but also from their practice. People who resist and resist,

608
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,840
and then after a few weeks or months, they're like,

609
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,760
I can't wait to sit in meditation because it's the

610
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,679
only silence that they have in the whole day.

611
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,599
Speaker 3: Oh, wouldn't it be wonderful if joy was a major

612
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:45,159
part of our golf life, because so much of it

613
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,199
is frustration and anger and intention. If we can just

614
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,880
introduce and keep joy in our game, Oh, that would

615
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,360
be wonderful. Tell us one more time the name of

616
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,119
the book and where we can find it, and your website.

617
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: The book is The Athletes Are Cent, and you can

618
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,800
get it online or you can order it from your

619
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:14,760
favorite bookstore. My website is chi Dash Performance. I'm sure

620
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,599
you're going to put a link there.

621
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

622
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:22,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've now been in my business for twenty years

623
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,920
and I've put together all the material I've ever written,

624
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:32,159
recorded and filmed for golfers, so there's a whole package there,

625
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:36,760
a golf performance program, and I've also put together a

626
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,599
performance practice guide for golf and sports. So if you

627
00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:43,599
want to dip your toe in the water and learn

628
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,400
a little bit and build up a daily practice, then

629
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,480
there's also something there for you. And I have a

630
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:52,159
blog on there that goes back I don't know, fifteen

631
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:56,119
years or something, so there's tons of material on there.

632
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 3: Jane, it's always a joy education when we get a

633
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,639
chance to speak. It's so great to see you again.

634
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me back, grat.

635
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: I want you to stay tuned over the next few

636
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,840
weeks because we're getting ready to announce the details of

637
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,199
our five round Golf Smarter adventure to the Robert Trent

638
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,239
Jones Trail in Alabama, coming up during the last weekend

639
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,880
of March twenty twenty five. So make sure your calendars

640
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,280
are free now because we'll only have space for three foursomes.

641
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,159
Details on that will be coming up soon. I'm not

642
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,920
sure you'll agree with me on this one, but I'm

643
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,320
a firm believer that golf doesn't need to be made

644
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:46,400
any harder than it already is, and that, like guys

645
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,599
on the tour, most of our second shots should be

646
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,760
with an eight iron or less. Well, I look at

647
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,679
the rating and slope to determine which tease I'm going

648
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,480
to play. I generally don't pay attention to the total yardage,

649
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:03,559
so I usually play from the white tees. I probably

650
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:06,599
picked that up from one of my many conversations with

651
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,679
Terry Kaylor, and this Friday on Golf Smarter Mulligans, we'll

652
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:13,360
go back to a full episode from our Short Game

653
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,920
Academy series with the Wedge Guy.

654
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,599
Speaker 4: If you're playing the right tees for your skill level

655
00:48:18,599 --> 00:48:21,760
and your distance, you're gonna hit seventy to seventy five

656
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,400
percent of your shots inside nine nine range. Do you

657
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,960
give that seventy five percent of your practice time? If not,

658
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,199
that's one part of your problem now. Nineteen forty nine,

659
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Ben Hogan in his book said the maximum distance of

660
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,239
a sand wedge is forty yards. I was with a

661
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,519
group of golfers last night that ranged from seven to

662
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,119
eighteen handicap, and the average person there said they hit

663
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:46,880
their sand wedge routinely eighty and eighty five yards. I said, really, well,

664
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,880
then you must be twice as good as Ben Hogan

665
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,480
hit his over forty. What we have in our bag

666
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:55,880
that we call wedges are very short range golf clubs

667
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,000
twenty to twenty five yard golf clubs, but we use

668
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:02,559
them in a full swing environment today. So the fact

669
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:04,920
that you have distance control issues may not really be

670
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,039
your fault. It may be the tools. I suspect because

671
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,159
you're a new golfer. There's also some technique and probably

672
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:14,360
some time issues there, but the third element of that

673
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,119
is the tools, and if you don't have the right

674
00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:19,280
tools in your bag, you're not going to have good

675
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:20,280
distance control.

676
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 3: Episode three hundred and fifty eight was originally for members only,

677
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,360
so it's the first time we've ever shared it publicly.

678
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,320
You'll definitely want to check this one out. In this

679
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,440
episode from November twenty twelve, Terry answers more listener questions

680
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,920
about their short game. I want to thank this week's

681
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,199
Golf Smarter Ambassador, Ed Mumford from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, who

682
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,280
chose to receive Tony Manzoni's Lost Fundamental video just for

683
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,880
opening today's episode. Ed plays at the historic Ellis Park

684
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,599
golf course in Cedar Rapids, which is nearly one hundred

685
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,800
years old. Now you have multiple ways to become a

686
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,519
golf Smarter ambassad You can record a show opening on

687
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:05,519
your phone like Ed did, or record it on our

688
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:08,519
toll free Golf Smarter listener line and choose one of

689
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,199
three great gifts, or if you'd like to get all

690
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,360
three gifts at once, then write a review for golf

691
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,920
Smarter from wherever you're listening right now. Just write an

692
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,719
honest review and send me what you wrote and where

693
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,960
you posted it. Once we confirm that your review is public,

694
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,719
I'll email you instructions on how to receive your gifts.

695
00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:32,320
If you have any questions comments, want to open a

696
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,519
future episode with where you're from, where you play, and

697
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:39,000
the episode number, or you've submitted a review on your

698
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,480
favorite podcast platform, or maybe you have a suggestion for

699
00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:46,480
an upcoming episode, Please write to golf Smarter podcast at

700
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:50,159
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701
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:53,320
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