WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.720 We're spending a lot of time on private credit and 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.160 specifically acid backed finance and fintech lending. That space is 3 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:11.439 really interesting because there's no clearing house, there's no exchange, 4 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:15.160 it's very bilateral as it operates today, and it's really 5 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:19.239 an area that I think is still very opaque, not standardized, 6 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.760 and really can therefore stand to benefit from this tech 7 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:26.879 being blockchain, stable coins, tokenization, and smart contracts. 8 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.439 This episode is brought to you by I trust Capital. 9 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.439 I Trust Capital allows you to invest in crypto as 10 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.399 well as precious metals like gold and silver via an 11 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.960 IRA and this gives you huge tax advantages, so you 12 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:48.439 can invest in over ninety crypto assets including bitcoin, e theorem, 13 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.479 x RP, Solana, and many more. You also get access 14 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.960 to stable coins such as Circles USDC and Ripples r 15 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.079 L USD. And as it relates to precious metals, you 16 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:01.000 can invest in gold and silver and these are the 17 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:04.239 physical assets, so you're not investing in paper gold and silver. 18 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:07.239 So on this platform you can redeem the gold and 19 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.400 silver if you choose to, and not many platforms offer that. Now, 20 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.120 the big advantage to investing via I Trust Capital's IRA 21 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.079 is the huge tax advantages. Many of you know you 22 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:22.079 incur capital gains taxes when you sell at a gain. Well, 23 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:24.480 you can minimize the effect of some of that by 24 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.200 doing it via an IRA, especially if you have a 25 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.239 long term view on crypto as well as precious metals, 26 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:32.920 and you can buy and sell crypto in precious metals 27 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:35.640 twenty four to seven. It's low cost and a monthly fee, 28 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:38.040 so this is a great option to get exposure to 29 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:41.400 these two great asset classes. And in addition, they have 30 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.120 a great custody solution. It's called Premium Custody account, so 31 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.480 it uses institutional great crypto custody such as coinbas Prime, 32 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:52.879 which black Rop leverages. I Trust also uses fidelity digital 33 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.560 assets as well as fireblocks, and it's a closed loop 34 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:58.079 system so if someone hacks it to your account, they 35 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.040 can't withdraw funds. I believe this is the second safest 36 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.239 way to custody your assets, right behind self custody, where 37 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.959 you control the private keys, and within the custody account 38 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:08.759 you could buy and sell twenty four to seven. It's 39 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.960 low fees, so this is a great option for custody 40 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.280 of your assets and you can sleep at night knowing 41 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:18.520 that you're getting the institutional great custodial services. So once 42 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.439 again two great products here from I Trust Capital, the 43 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.360 IRRA where you can roll over your existing four AH 44 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:27.520 one k or IRA to I Trust Capitalist version getting 45 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:31.159 the huge tax advantages and the institutional custody and folks, 46 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:33.599 if you sign up with my link at I Trustcapital 47 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.719 dot Com slash Go slash Thinking Crypto, you could get 48 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.360 a one hundred dollars funding bonus. I have an account with 49 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:41.520 I Trust Capital, so I encourage you to go check 50 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.120 out I Trust Capital, learn about their services and see 51 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:46.000 if it's right for you. Again, you can get one 52 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.719 hundred dollars funding bonus by signing up via my link, 53 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.439 which is I Trustcapital dot com slash Go slash Thinking Crypto. 54 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.639 Link will be in the description. Hey everyone, welcome into 55 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.479 the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and 56 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.400 we are recording at Station three in New York's Financial District. 57 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:04.599 And joining me today is Morgan Krepetski, who is the 58 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.759 vice president of on chain Finance at Ava Labs, which 59 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.080 is the technology company building the Avalanche blockchain. Prior to 60 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:17.080 joining avle Labs, Morgan spent time at City almost over 61 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:21.599 a decade beginning with roles focused on institutional FX and macro, 62 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:27.039 covering hedge funds, asset managers, and pension funds. Morgan, Great 63 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:27.319 to have. 64 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.039 You, Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. 65 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.240 Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. Full disclosure, I'm a 66 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:36.039 big fan of Avalanche. I am an avax sokenholder. But 67 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.759 also Morgan, spend a lot of time at City. You 68 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:43.479 have the tread five banking perspective, and now you're in crypto, 69 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.080 so I'm ready to dig into your perspective on what's 70 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.919 happening and adoption we're seeing. So great. Great to have 71 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:50.159 you here. 72 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.439 Yeah, it's good to be here. Thank you. 73 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.000 Let's start with your background. Would you grow up, how'd 74 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:55.280 you end up in finance? 75 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:59.879 Yeah, I grew up outside of Philadelphia and went to 76 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.800 college in New York and have been living here ever since. 77 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:06.000 And so you know, I guess that makes me a 78 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:10.479 true New Yorker. You know, inherently, you know, going to 79 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.000 school and really the financial capital of the world. I 80 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.720 think there was a big kind of pipeline of you know, 81 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:21.040 university to financial services just inherently kind of from a 82 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:24.439 cultural standpoint, and so you know, I think part of 83 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:25.920 it is like you don't know what you don't know. 84 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.600 But in you know, my schooling, I was attracted to 85 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:32.079 macroeconomics and so did kind of a series of internships 86 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.800 in various parts of financial services and found that I 87 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:40.480 really liked it, and so started at City right after 88 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:46.399 I graduated in the kind of institutional rotational program, specifically 89 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:50.639 within sales and trading, and stuck around for quite some time. 90 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:53.199 While I was still at City, I had a couple 91 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.920 other roles kind of in the process before diving into 92 00:04:57.319 --> 00:04:59.720 crypto and digital assets, which I know we'll talk about 93 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.720 that was kind of my foreign and TraFi. 94 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.879 So along that journey, was it at City that you 95 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:07.439 discovered blockchaining crypto? 96 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.959 Yeah? So it was interesting because I spent the majority 97 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.600 of my career in what they call like the fun 98 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.360 office or the first line of defense in the business 99 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:22.079 in kind of directly revenue generating businesses, and you mentioned 100 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:25.560 earlier I was part of the FX and macro derivatives desk, 101 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:30.879 covering hedge funds, asset managers, and pension funds, and that 102 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.000 was the majority of my time, and then the last 103 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:35.600 kind of couple of years I spent in the second 104 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.759 line of defense working for city chief compliance officer it 105 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:41.759 was her chief of staff, and kind of through both 106 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:45.480 of those experiences, I saw, you know, how end to 107 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:50.199 end processes worked, not just as it related to trade execution, 108 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.800 but also post trade a lot of reconciliation, middle and 109 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:59.600 back office processes, the kind of managing of risk and controls, 110 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:03.759 and saw kind of firsthand how those things were linked 111 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:10.759 and inherently I saw how sometimes processes would inherently not 112 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.839 necessarily run smoothly because and this is not necessarily just 113 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.480 specific to city, but I think it's any large bank 114 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.160 or any large enterprise or institution that you know, because 115 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:24.000 it's the result of you know, very like older a 116 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.639 lot older systems, and sometimes M and A and sometimes 117 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.720 you know, lack of prioritization in terms of spending the 118 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.800 time and resources to actually streamline systems. A lot of 119 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:39.040 the times, uh, there would be you know, manual processes 120 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:41.319 that would be put in place, kind of maker checker 121 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.920 type of processes where inherently systems wouldn't talk to each 122 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.240 other and therefore, you know, bodies would be thrown at 123 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.439 having to reconcile things internally, let alone when you talk 124 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.680 about going from kind of one institution to another institution, 125 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.000 and so as I was you know, observing this, at 126 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.000 the same time, we had you know, the last cryptobal market, 127 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.480 and I got a lot more interested in kind of 128 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.639 going down the rabbit hole and really understanding what the 129 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.439 tech was about. And so my kind of fury into 130 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.959 this space was less on like the bitcoin maxie side 131 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.360 of things and more of like, how can we use 132 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:18.519 smart contract capabilities to really upgrade legacy financial services infrastructure 133 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:22.920 and institutional workflows. So it's really not like the sexy part, 134 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.240 it's like the plumbing, but it really kind of got 135 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:27.360 me excited because I know, took a step back and 136 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.959 saw the potential of what the tech could do as 137 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.120 it related to really upgrading how processes would work within 138 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:37.360 financial services, but also obviously kind of other industries as well. 139 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:40.519 Well. You were certainly ahead of the curve because we're 140 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:43.639 seeing City, along with other banks and Wall Street firms 141 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.040 are all integrating blockchain technology. It's not just about bigcoinner 142 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.519 bitcoin ETFs, but tokenization stable coins using blockchain to move 143 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.199 information and data. All that's being built now. 144 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:59.160 Yeah, totally. It's interesting. So when I first joined av Labs, 145 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:03.360 I was specifically focused on institutions and capital markets, so 146 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:07.759 bringing banks and asset managers onto Avalanche in some way, 147 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.079 shape or form and the context of their blockchain digital 148 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.360 asset strategies. And so that was a lot about educating 149 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:18.160 institutions around not necessarily what was blockchain, because at that point, luckily, 150 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.319 I think they were more or less ish on board, 151 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.120 but they had digital asset teams, but it was what 152 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.959 is avalanche, what are the differentiators in the usps, and 153 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.319 how can we leverage the underlying technology too. And we'll 154 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.679 get into this, but basically, either upgrade how we do things, 155 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.519 enter net new markets, capitalize on net new revenue opportunities. 156 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.279 And really since then, the worlds of trad FI, DeFi, 157 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:47.360 c FI tokenization have really converged and I think will 158 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:50.519 continue to converge. And so at this point, you know, 159 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:52.720 while before I think there was like a spectrum of 160 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:55.559 different types of financial services institutions in terms of those 161 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:57.600 that have been really progressive for a while and those 162 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.759 that were very new. I think, especially after the election, 163 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.399 it kind of gave a green light for a lot 164 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.759 more institutions to really start standing up digital asset teams, 165 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:11.080 hiring digital asset heads, to really kind of create both, 166 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.840 you know, to your point, a crypto and digital asset 167 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.039 strategy as well as more of like a blockchain strategy. 168 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.960 You mentioned the election, so I'm curious prior to the 169 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.200 election and the favorable environment we're in right now where 170 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.200 a firms like City it's kind of sitting on the fence. 171 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:28.559 I think we get this and we want to build 172 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:30.360 it born. We don't want to be in trouble with 173 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.720 the regulators. Was that the crux of it? 174 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:37.320 Yeah, I mean I think there was always a spectrum, right, 175 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:40.759 Firms like JP Morgan had been really at the forefront 176 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:46.159 of leveraging blockchain infrastructure relatively for quite some time, and 177 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.559 then there were others I won't name names who were 178 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.879 just like, we know this is a thing, and we're 179 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.120 keeping up to date with the news, but we don't 180 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:55.360 really want to touch this for a variety of reasons, 181 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:58.879 one of which, to your point was regulatory clarity, and 182 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:03.440 especially with the likes of FTX and Celsius, that didn't 183 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:08.559 really help the industry's cause. Luckily from an Avalanche standpoint, 184 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:12.799 and we'll get into this, but Avalanche really allows institutions 185 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:16.240 to stand up their own private permission environments if that's 186 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.200 what they want or if that's what the use case 187 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.399 kind of demands. And so we luckily early on had 188 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.720 a little bit of a wedge even four years ago 189 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:27.960 in working with the cities and JP Morgans of the world, 190 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.360 where you know, historically they were used to building on 191 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.039 what we would call like enterprise chains, like a hyper 192 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.639 ledger that was fully isolated from you know, the DeFi 193 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:42.159 innovation and composability and n with avalanchell ones. It really 194 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.799 allowed them to like step into the world of public 195 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.039 permissionless in a way that still allowed them to you know, 196 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.799 address a lot of their compliance and regulatory requirements, but 197 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.039 start to get a little bit closer to you know, 198 00:10:54.080 --> 00:11:00.000 the public permissionless realm DeFi innovation, composability and now, especially 199 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.879 after the election, there's still definitely use cases that demand 200 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:08.279 private permission networks. But really there has been such a 201 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.279 turn in the tide of Okay, now we really gotta 202 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:13.639 do something in the space. We have to figure out 203 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.200 what it is, why are we doing it, and really 204 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:21.679 start to operationalize and in production various types of use cases. 205 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.480 Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of 206 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.960 the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if 207 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.399 you can please support the podcast by hitting the like 208 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.960 button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you can leave 209 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.120 a comment below as well. And if you're listening on 210 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.200 a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or wherever you 211 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.200 get your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit 212 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.320 the five star rating. I'll let you get back to 213 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.399 the content. Thank you so much. And Morgan, it's fascinating 214 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.799 because you're seeing even the detractors are now capitulating, if 215 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.960 that's the right word. Yeah, And we're in this race, 216 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:55.559 and it seems that the direction to Puck is heading 217 00:11:55.600 --> 00:12:00.039 in is blockchain rails powering markets and the economy. It 218 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.600 seems that's what the end goal is. 219 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:05.279 Yeah, I mean, I guess blockchain just in general, and 220 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.159 to take a step back, it's always been, you know, 221 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:12.279 conducive for the transfer of peer to peer value, and 222 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:17.759 that value is encapsulated in a variety of different tokenized 223 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:22.399 assets as well as in tokenized cash or digital forms 224 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.879 of money that is, stable coins or tokenized deposits. And 225 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.159 so when you have both of those things, leveraging a 226 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:32.120 common set of trade, transaction and settlement rails also being 227 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:36.759 reflected in common kind of token standards. It provides for 228 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.000 the much more seamless transfer of value where you know, 229 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:45.960 historically enterprises were built on systems that inherently don't talk 230 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.960 to each other, whether it's intra company or inter company, 231 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:52.600 and as a result of that, historically that's why we 232 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:54.799 saw a lot of intermediaries pop up, or the need 233 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.559 for intermediaries to pop up to basically take data from 234 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:01.600 one place to another direct concile it right, which is 235 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:05.279 inherently not automatic and error prone because a lot of 236 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.759 it's a lot of the time it's governed by manual processes. 237 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.919 And so to be able to instead leverage you know, 238 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.679 sometimes I call it like the world's Excel sheet that 239 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.240 you know, inherently you can see how value whether it's 240 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.039 on a wholesale level or on a retail level, how 241 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.360 that could really help to upgrade, you know, how we 242 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:25.919 work today. 243 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.399 Before we get into the ecosystem and all the great 244 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:31.759 things that are being built on the Avalanche blockchain, for 245 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:33.559 the viewers and listeners who may not know, give a 246 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.679 quick overview of Avalanche as a blockchain and the capabilities 247 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:37.360 and things like that. 248 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.840 So Avalanche actually is not a blockchain, It is a 249 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:46.200 network of many blockchains. It is anchored by a public 250 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.799 permissionless liquidity hub called the Avalanche Sea chain, which is 251 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.879 EVEM compatible, which basically means anything that anyone has built 252 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.799 for Ethereum or a hyperledger can very easily be ported 253 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:04.120 over into Avalanche, and then on the Avalanche seachain that 254 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:08.879 houses kind of all of the primitives and native integrations 255 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:13.759 that make any kind of public permissionless ecosystem tick, right, 256 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.840 So that's DeFi primitive stable coin integrations, custodial integrations, on 257 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.159 and off ramps, tokenization platforms, so on and so forth. 258 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.039 And so when people think about Avalanche, oftentimes they're thinking 259 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.799 about the activity that exists on the liquidity hub or 260 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:32.799 Avalanche seachain. However, the network also allows builders, whether that's 261 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:37.000 a government agency, a financial services institution and enterprise, to 262 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:43.159 stand up its own individual or series of customizable layer 263 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:48.440 one blockchains that can be public and permissionless. They can 264 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.600 be private and permissioned, or they can be hybrid, they 265 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:58.240 can be public and permissioned, and so importantly, those networks 266 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:02.080 are natively interoperable with each other as well as with 267 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.240 the Avalanche seat chain, which means that just because you're 268 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.960 launching your own chain, doesn't mean again you're in isolation. 269 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:13.480 You can bring in USDC, USDT users, other types of 270 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.320 tokens into and out of your environment two sea chain 271 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.080 or to other networks if that's what your kind of 272 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.559 use case demands for. And so in general, you know, 273 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.240 when we talk to different types of partners, we don't 274 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.720 we're not necessarily prescriptive to say you have to launch 275 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:29.679 on Avalanche teachain or you have to launch your l one. 276 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.360 It's very dependent on the particular use case and the 277 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.399 application and the particular kind of compliance and other types 278 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159 of requirements. And therefore it doesn't necessarily as a network 279 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.480 beholden a partner to a particular network toolkit or logic. 280 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.799 It's really dependent on the particular use case. And so 281 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:53.440 that customizability, the ability for you know, regulated financial services institution, 282 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.320 let's say, who's building a collateral mobility platform to really 283 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:02.240 cater the network and the chain to the use case. 284 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.080 And that includes things like permissioning across validators, transactors, smart 285 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.919 contract deployers. It doesn't necessarily mean that validation if it's 286 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.799 permission has to be centralized. It can be distributed among 287 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.600 a whole host of institutions who have an economic or 288 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.879 business interest in validating that network. But it's very malieable. 289 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.360 And so that customizability we found has really resonated with 290 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:26.799 a variety of different types of builders. 291 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.320 That's really great. So let's do a mock scenario. So 292 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.840 let's use JP Morgan in city. So let's say they 293 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.000 both build on I don't know what makes sense to 294 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.600 see chain or you know, one of the their own 295 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:43.159 l one version. They have the privacy, so JP Morgan 296 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.799 can see cities information and vice versa. But if they 297 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.080 want to transact with each other they can correct. 298 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.320 Yeah, and I mean to your point exactly, like it's 299 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.600 not necessarily that City and JP will for sure have 300 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:58.320 their own chains. What we've actually found is institutions who 301 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:02.120 have been issuing and tokenizing assets. It behooves them to 302 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.559 issue those assets where users, liquidity, and other types of 303 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:09.160 integrations exist, which is on sea chain. But to the 304 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:13.279 extent that an institution or group of institutions is building 305 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.319 an application that might be more conducive for an L 306 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.880 one environment. So for example, if they're building again like 307 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:25.039 an engine for collateral mobility or an exchange of some kind, 308 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:28.680 that might be more conducive for its own l one. Now, 309 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.759 within that l one, to your point, you can have 310 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.799 a variety of different institutions interacting and trading, but when 311 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.440 it comes to settlement, perhaps it makes sense to settle 312 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:40.799 those trades back on their respective networks. And if that's 313 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.599 the case, let's say, you know, two institutions come together, 314 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:48.240 they decide on a particular trade, the asset and the 315 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.920 payment can settle on the respective institutions l ones and 316 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.799 do so in a way that doesn't require third party 317 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:59.920 bridges or third party assumptions because it's using avalanches, native 318 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.799 intra network interoperability capabilities, and so there's a bunch of 319 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:08.519 different kind of configurations. And again it just depends on 320 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.880 and we always sit down with institutions and sometimes they 321 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.039 kind of like think they know what they want, or 322 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.799 they're saying we absolutely need this, and I'm like, you 323 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:20.160 actually don't need that. Here's a more efficient way to 324 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:22.039 kind of solve that. So we always try to get 325 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.599 to the crux of like what are you trying to solve? 326 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:26.759 Why do you think you need what you are saying 327 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.279 that you need, And then let's talk through different ways 328 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.880 to express that need from a blockchain architecture perspective and 329 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:34.640 help you help you get there. 330 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.640 I want to make sure I wrap my head around this, 331 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.400 and this is a general question I have even overall 332 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.359 of of what's being built with these institutions, because many 333 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:45.160 of them you alluded to this, they kind of have 334 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.480 the wall gardens, right. They tried to build their own 335 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:52.319 internal permission chain, which is fine, but now they're noticing, hey, 336 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.079 we need to get to public chains to sell and 337 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.480 communicate with other folks, Avalanche being one of them. So 338 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.440 when they transact, how is that data or money or 339 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.240 whatever it is going back internally? So and this is 340 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.079 where your perspective is going to be great because you 341 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:08.839 worked at a bank, so you know how this all works. 342 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.759 So if city's operating on this l one an Avalanche, 343 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.799 how does the value of whatever you're doing get back 344 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.519 to the bank itself? Yeah? 345 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.359 Well, at this point, unfortunately, I don't think banks are 346 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:25.359 in a position to like custody USDC, which I hope 347 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.200 that they will. But a lot of them are either 348 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.480 already have or are working on tokenized deposits, right, And 349 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.160 so that I guess, in a certain sense from a 350 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.279 token standard perspective, is very similar to a stable coin 351 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:43.319 like USDC, but inherently it reflects the token reflects a 352 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:47.240 tokenized deposit or a deposit that exists already within the 353 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.920 bank and that is within the bank's custody, and so 354 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:52.880 it's kind of similar in that sense, and that in 355 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.279 this case, I guess City it would be the issuer 356 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:01.519 of the of the tokenized deposit. But hopefully we'll get 357 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:03.640 to a point where where a lot of these financial 358 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:08.160 services institutions can start to really custody at scale stable coins, 359 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:11.599 in which case that would probably follow the same model 360 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:16.559 that any institution kind of custodies a stable coin. And 361 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.440 in the case of USDC, for example, if an institution 362 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.880 is building let's say on their own L one and 363 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.079 they want to pull in let's say USDC from Avalanche 364 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.720 Teachain into their environment, they don't necessarily have to contract 365 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.960 with Circle to integrate native USDC onto their network, because 366 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.599 that's probably going to be a very difficult proposition to 367 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.240 get Circle to do that. I'm sure they have a 368 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.079 large pipeline. They don't really care about necessarily integrating all 369 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.759 these different chains, whether they're l ones or L two's, 370 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.279 and so what would happen instead is that through avalanches 371 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.519 native interoperability protocol, they would basically pull in USDC into 372 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.920 their environment. And I think I mentioned this, but the 373 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.559 interoperability that doesn't necessitate in the context of Avalanche third 374 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.279 party bridges, and so it really relies really just on 375 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.400 the two validator sets of the network to facilitate that 376 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.920 innerchain messaging. And so for example, let's say you have 377 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.799 a city chain and a JP Morgan chain. Presumably those 378 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:28.240 chains are permissioned. They have a permissioned validator set, probably 379 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:32.160 run by city in JP Morgan respectively. City. In the 380 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.039 case that they want to send an asset or a 381 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:38.400 payment to JP Morgan, they would pay that network to say, hey, 382 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.400 we want to send you whatever ten tokenized deposit units. 383 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:47.240 The validators of the JP Morgan L one would basically 384 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.480 look up on the validator registry of Avalanche, which is 385 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.559 held on the Avalanche Pea chain, and say, who is 386 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.000 sending me this message? Oh, this is the validators of 387 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.640 the City network. We trust the City network to receive 388 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.839 that message and to receive that that payment, and they 389 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:08.599 choose to accept that message, and therefore that transfer or 390 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.119 that message happens and goes through again just relying on 391 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.359 those two already known and trusted validator sets. So that 392 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:17.319 would be an example. I mean, obviously you can send 393 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.359 payments assets, you can paying a chain for has this 394 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.359 transactor been ky seed? There are so many you know, 395 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:27.079 there's a very low level and the kind of arbitrary 396 00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.880 protocol that you can layer on on top really anything 397 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:31.720 that you want. But those are kind of some examples 398 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.119 from an institutional perspective. 399 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:36.359 That's great insights. See, that's what I wanted to just 400 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.160 for you, for myself, I know we're going. 401 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:39.799 Down the rabbit hope, that's kind of what it was. 402 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.319 Yeah, it's fascinating and I'm so interested to learn how 403 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.400 the piping and the moving parts and components all work. 404 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:48.440 And you know, obviously you being at a bank and 405 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.640 I and I'm fascinated to see how they're integrating all 406 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.519 these things. So it's amazing what's being built. And look, 407 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:59.119 there's been a wave of institutional announcements on Avalanche. There's 408 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.400 a lot so ETPs. You've got broad Ridge payments, infrastructure 409 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.079 and much more. I would love to dive into talk 410 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.720 to us about these things and also dive into broad Rage. 411 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:12.319 Sure, So I would just to take a step back, 412 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.920 like the commonality behind I think most of the builders 413 00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:22.079 and companies deploying on Avalanche are generally speaking, they've been 414 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.960 solving real world problems aiming for real world adoption by 415 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.440 real world businesses. They're generally less direct to consumer and 416 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.279 more B to B or B to B two C. 417 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.000 And we call these partners, whether they're in financial services 418 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.599 or gaming, or payments or sports and entertainment, we call 419 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.880 them tech enablement partners. And they're the ones who we 420 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.200 basically work in tandem with on a kind of go 421 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:53.640 to market or bead strategy and ultimately reaching out to 422 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.319 different types of businesses that would benefit from the blockchain 423 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:01.160 enabled product, services and capabilities that those tech partners bring 424 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.400 to the table. So that's you know, the ecosystem at 425 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.599 a high level. Obviously we have a robust and top 426 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.799 tier kind of DeFi ecosystem, but even the DeFi primitives 427 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:15.160 that exist on Avalanche, between various types of vaults, infrastructure, 428 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.160 borrow lend protocols, I almost look at them as kind 429 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.480 of top of the funnel where even those protocols we 430 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.200 actively pitch two different FinTechs, wealth tech platforms and eobanks 431 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.839 to embed in their back ends to start offering new product, 432 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.759 service and capabilities to their clients. So I almost see 433 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.079 like the DeFi partners as tech enablement partners in the 434 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.640 same way. So that's really kind of the commonality. And 435 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.400 I think in general, as we really pivoted to focus 436 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:46.720 on this like better business strategy, it's really about how 437 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:51.160 do we via our partners deliver better business outcomes. Is 438 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.000 it cutting of costs, is it creating efficiency, is it 439 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.440 entering in at new market, capitalizing on a new revenue opportunity? 440 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:02.200 And largely when we pitch to the these ultimately end clients, 441 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.279 we don't really talk about avalanche. We talk about the 442 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.839 business benefit that that business gets by leveraging a slew 443 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:14.680 of tech enablement partners on avalanche. Most of those customers 444 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:20.160 don't have large digital asset teams. More necessarily should they, 445 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.519 who should be thinking about building all of this stuff 446 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:29.079 from scratch, And so the ideas that they are sold 447 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.680 on the capability and there is an agreement that is 448 00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:35.079 kind of struck between them and the tech enablement partner, 449 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:37.440 and it happens to be on avalanche, and that's how 450 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.039 it should be. Right, Like people shouldn't know or care 451 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.119 what network they're using, if they're even using blockchain, and 452 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.039 that's really kind of the go to market motion that 453 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.440 we strive for as it relates to broad Ridge in particular, 454 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.920 maybe just as a summary, a few weeks ago, we 455 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.680 announced with broad Ridge that they have built a purpose 456 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.079 build to L one and Avalanche l one within our network, 457 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.640 and it is really meant for the transmission of corporate 458 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:14.000 actions to a variety of different platforms, not just on Avalanche, 459 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:17.759 but across a variety of different chains. Today, broad Ridge 460 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.680 is a huge piece of you know, financial market infrastructure 461 00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:22.880 in the world of trad fi. Specifically, again as it 462 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.200 relates to corporate actions, I think they cover you know, 463 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:31.599 over ninety percent of you know, US equity corporate actions today, 464 00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:36.680 corporate action communications today, and oftentimes it's still via like mail, 465 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.720 like paper trail and in this world where you know, 466 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.200 and we'll talk about this as a theme, but more 467 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:49.440 and more companies are exploring tokenized equities, both kind of 468 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.200 as a mirror token as well as native on chain issuance. 469 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.880 Broad Ridge really saw this as a way to start 470 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.759 to explore how to upgrade their own kind of infrastructure 471 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.400 and rather than potentially sending via mail exploring, Hey, if 472 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:09.079 somebody has a wallet with you know, Google Shares and 473 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:13.839 Apple Shares, how do we send the communication the opportunity 474 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.160 to vote, for example, to somebody's wallet directly, right, Because 475 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.319 all of this information, again is on chain on a 476 00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:24.039 public ledger, is there a way for us to do 477 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:27.680 that directly and therefore maybe make it again the process 478 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:31.039 more efficient bypass certain intermediaries that are now no longer 479 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.240 needed or the need for them is kind of reduced. 480 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.079 And so it's really their answer to start to kind 481 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.839 of come into this new world where equities are now 482 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.079 natively issued on chain. 483 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:47.039 That's pretty profound. And I've gotten those mails, Oh you 484 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:47.880 got to vote. 485 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.680 By this and do you actually vote? 486 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.039 Oh my god, I feel so annoying my websit. Why 487 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.880 are you getting on the like we're invested in this 488 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.559 and that's why I think you're sending it to us. 489 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:57.480 And it's like three months ago because I don't check 490 00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.640 your mail every day. 491 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.200 And then it keeps sending like multiple copies and I'm like, 492 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.079 oh my gosh. But if that is fully digital and 493 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.799 having the verification via blockchain and tokenized assets, that will 494 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.119 make my life a lot easier. 495 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.119 Yeah, I mean it'd be cool to see it like 496 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.079 kind of like throughout a pop up notification right where 497 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.079 you can just decide and then probably'd be more inclined 498 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.960 to participate in governance if it was right there and 499 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:21.079 very easily accessible. 500 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.359 Yeah, I see. I find that so fascinating it and 501 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:25.920 it's so important to tell these stories, these use cases, 502 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.160 because sometimes people are very distracted by price and then 503 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.400 sometimes negative headlines. But to see this type of adoption, 504 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.880 this type of building, real world use case, trad fund 505 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:40.400 novel concept, yeah right, yes, and I think these need 506 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:43.920 to be the headlines, not this meme coin or whatever. 507 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:44.839 You know what I mean, You. 508 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.680 Have me both, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean 509 00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.519 I do feel like you know, over the past four years, 510 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.920 we've seen and we talked about this, like definitely more 511 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:58.839 institutional interest and enterprise adoption, where I think the industry 512 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:05.359 has had grown up somewhat and is focusing a lot more, 513 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.319 especially with stable coins, on like real world use cases 514 00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:10.480 and maybe less so crypto casino. I mean, I know 515 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.119 prediction markets are obviously huge, but even there, I think 516 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.960 there's there's an effort to kind of like institutionalize or 517 00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.000 professionalize them a little bit more so and so I 518 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.960 think that there's a lot of scope to see that 519 00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.519 like market grow up as well. 520 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.160 Yeah. I mean I think is Intercontinental Exchange parent company 521 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:29.480 Unior ex South Exchange, they invest it in. 522 00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.559 Poly marketing huge, Yeah, totally. 523 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:35.119 Yeah, So to your point, industry is growing up. And look, 524 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:36.599 a lot of people are probably gonna hate on me 525 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.640 for saying this, but I think the trad fly folks 526 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:42.039 coming in are helping us to mature. Yeah. Obviously I 527 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.240 love Crypto. I missed some of the twenty seventeen days 528 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.079 because it's just like it was fun, but we had 529 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:48.599 to grow up. 530 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.759 Yeah, it's really it's really ironic to see. I think 531 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.920 there was like a Crypto ethos of like we don't 532 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:58.799 need the institutions and we're gonna build our own banks, 533 00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:02.880 and I like shunned kind of trad fy And now 534 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.400 everyone's cheering, or most people are kind of cheering the 535 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:10.640 institutionalization bringing trod fy into this kind of realm, and 536 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.720 not necessarily because I think they're gonna have the same role, 537 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.480 but I think it definitely brings more resources into the space, 538 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.920 more talent into the space, and new innovation and new 539 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.079 kind of opportunities for adoption. 540 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.680 Yeah, And the keyword there is adoption because I think 541 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.920 of look, I'm a techie, I was early to this, 542 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:34.880 I was. It pulled me in, right, It had a 543 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:37.640 gravitational pull because I love tech. But I think about 544 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.759 my mom and dad and for them to even invest 545 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.799 in bitcoin or crypto, they probably want Fidelity, you know 546 00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:47.480 what I mean, because I did trust Fidelity, Trust JP Morning. 547 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.759 Those are names companies they worked with, have accounts with already. 548 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.960 And if I want them to use certain types of 549 00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.720 apps to do web three things, they probably want to 550 00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.200 use a brand they're familiar with, not necessarily a crypto startup. Again, 551 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.839 it's all about demographics in the segmentation of. 552 00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.519 Course, yeah totally. I mean how gen Z kind of 553 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.920 looks at investing is very different than millennials and older generations. 554 00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.000 And by the way, this is not financial advice, but 555 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.000 I think various institutions just want to ensure that their 556 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.839 clients kind of have at their fingertips what it is 557 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:24.759 that they need in the way that they are comfortable 558 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.440 with accessing it, which is also I think why we 559 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.000 saw a lot of popularity with the crypto ETFs right, 560 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:35.599 like it provided a new but traditional way to access 561 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.480 new asset in a way that I think a lot 562 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:41.839 of institutions and individuals were comfortable. 563 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:45.319 With speaking of ETSS bit wise, they launch an avax 564 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.240 ETF recently which is huge, and there's a lot a 565 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:50.039 lot more coming, I would imagine. 566 00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:53.480 Yeah, I mean it's again not financial advice, but it's 567 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:58.480 exciting to again see these different kind of ways to 568 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:01.880 be able to offer UH, you know through bit wise 569 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.559 for example, access to UH to crypto assets, and so 570 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:11.400 I think it just lends kind of another point for 571 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:17.440 for credibility, for legitimacy and really allows you know, bit 572 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.680 wise and others to start really telling kind of the 573 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.920 avalanche story from an educational standpoint, because as much education 574 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.039 as we've done, it's not going to be over anytime soon. 575 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.000 And so I think the more kind of partners we 576 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.720 have of the ecosystem working on education telling the story 577 00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:35.920 not just of the platform, but also to your point, 578 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.759 the use cases that are being deployed on the platform, 579 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:42.720 the better. And so definitely excited to see that. 580 00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:46.799 Yeah, there's still billions of people who don't have they 581 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:49.400 haven't touched this, they don't know what it is. Some 582 00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:53.200 are maybe turned off by certain headlines but education will 583 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:53.920 help solve that. 584 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:56.559 Yeah, I think so. I think so. And it's interesting 585 00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:01.440 to see from like an order of operations standpoint point. UH. 586 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:05.440 You know, in general, banks have been not quick, but 587 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:12.480 have definitely prioritized offering kind of crypto products, you know, 588 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:17.359 obviously starting with the basics UH to their customers with ETFs, 589 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.680 and I think over time we'll start to see kind 590 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.200 of a lot more blockchain based UH products being offered, 591 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:29.440 ideally with the blockchain components being abstracted away, but a 592 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:34.039 lot of different companies are looking at kind of issuing wallets, 593 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.759 digital wallets, not custodial wallets to their customers, and then 594 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.000 through that there's so many different you know, products and 595 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.640 services you can offer to your customers through that channel. 596 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.799 And so, you know, I think over the past year, 597 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:50.880 I've really seen it, seen it accelerate. 598 00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.720 Yeah. An example I'll give is the folks of Franklin Templeton, 599 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:57.039 just because I remember Sandy Call of Franklin Templeton talking 600 00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.279 about this. We're moving away from the account based up 601 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.480 total wallet based setup and everyone's trying to build their 602 00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:05.640 own wallet that's self custodia wallety, and that could be 603 00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.880 folks their financial hub, their digital identity, all. 604 00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:12.760 Kinds of things, totally totally fascinating. Sandy also a city 605 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.719 alum ah. 606 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.599 I didn't know that. Yeah she's great, Yeah she's great. 607 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.760 I had her on many times. The tokenization race is 608 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:24.360 heating up. A lot of tokenization happening on Avalanche as well. 609 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.079 Do you believe that let's say the Clarity Act gets 610 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:29.880 past this year, plus the Genius Act rolling out, will 611 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:32.519 help boost more adoption, more building, We're going to see 612 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.599 the next wave of innovation, so to speak. 613 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:35.320 I hope. 614 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:35.440 So. 615 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.360 Yeah. I mean, I think in general, just like on 616 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:45.480 the regulatory point, especially for really kind of established incumbent institutions, 617 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:52.480 the more clarity upon intended that there is the more 618 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.159 understanding of the guidelines and guardrails that institutions and enterprises 619 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.320 can start to operate within and within I was gonna 620 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:02.920 say around, but they're not doing it around, They're doing 621 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:06.880 within the guardrails, and so I think that that's only 622 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.280 net positive for the industry. I think we saw an 623 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.159 example of that what happened post Genius. There was this 624 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:17.320 such a renewed push and focus on stable coins. It 625 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.960 was no longer you know, what is our blockchain digital 626 00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:23.000 asset strategy, but what is our stable coin strategy? And 627 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.039 we saw not just banks, but a lot more types 628 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.719 of enterprises Western Union, PayPal, others really really kind of 629 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.719 push forward in the space. There was a lot of 630 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.519 m and a activity obviously in the specifically within the 631 00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.519 stable coin space that has and likely will continue to happen. 632 00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:42.480 So if that's any any indication, I think clarity and 633 00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:47.320 just further global you know, regulatory clarity can only be 634 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.719 a net positive in terms of giving institutions the green 635 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.480 light to really start to productionize and scale a lot 636 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:01.039 of their deployments. And so from a tokenization standpoint, I 637 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:03.519 think inherently that you know, that will help as well 638 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.960 in terms of kind of themes that we've seen from 639 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.960 a tokenization perspective. You know, I've always considered stable coins 640 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:17.639 as like the quintessential tokenized asset, and so obviously stable 641 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:21.280 coin market cap over time has grown tremendously and I 642 00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.840 think as a result of that, a lot of institutions 643 00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:27.400 saw that growth, especially asset managers, and they're like, oh, 644 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.679 stable coins, inherently, don't you know, offer yield to the 645 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:33.360 to the holders of those stable coins. I know that's 646 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.559 obviously a hot topic as it relates to clarity, but 647 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.239 I think that really was an impetus for a lot 648 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:40.840 of asset managers to start offering money market funds or 649 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.559 tokenized money market funds. Obviously, there's a whole slew of 650 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.719 asset managers who who have launched tokenized money market funds, 651 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:52.320 many of which are on avalanche, and so to date 652 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:56.159 a lot of the kind of subscribers or buyers of 653 00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.199 those money market funds have interestingly been stable coint and 654 00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:03.599 synthetic dollars shoers. And then I think, uh, you know, 655 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:09.519 by extension, fintech's well tech platforms and neobanks who are 656 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:12.960 starting to be able to offer to their customers, you know, 657 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.960 digital savings accounts as generated by by money market funds. 658 00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.159 So I think we'll see that continue. And I think 659 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.719 by extension there we've started to see uh, especially kind 660 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:25.559 of the synthetic dollar issuers waiting into the world of 661 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.599 private credit and other types of fixed income products, and 662 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.360 so I think I think that will continue. There's obviously 663 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:38.320 been a very big theme around tokenized equities, which I 664 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.760 think will continue. There's a lot of initiatives out there 665 00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:45.159 between UH, super state and others working on native on 666 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:49.800 chain equity issuance, which I think is a long road, 667 00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.719 but it's definitely worth it because that is really where 668 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:56.760 you start to see actual like efficiencies in the end 669 00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:01.039 to end process, not just of issuance, but you know, trading, clearing, settlement, 670 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:05.480 so on and so forth. And then in addition to that, 671 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.360 you know, we've been very focused specifically on private credit, 672 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:11.039 asset backed finance, fintech lending, which we can talk about, 673 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.840 and really everything in between. So we've seen a lot. 674 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.639 I think, you know, the space will will continue to evolve, 675 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:23.320 and it's it's exciting to kind of see right infoferent 676 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.159 types of institutions getting involved as well. 677 00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:28.360 Yeah, and it feels like we're at this pretty significant 678 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.000 moment in history because Morgan, we're about two blocks away 679 00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.559 from the New York Souck Exchange Wall Street, and if 680 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:36.920 we're going to twenty seven twenty four to seven markets, 681 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:38.800 there's not going to be an opening and closing belt. 682 00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:40.639 That's going to be a thing of the past. We're 683 00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:42.719 gonna go it's gonna be I don't know, the bell 684 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.480 is going to be put in a display, right, and. 685 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:46.480 We'll go through another b C. 686 00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:47.960 I remember when it used to do this. 687 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:53.199 Remember we's all gather, right, it's and. 688 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:54.760 No, no, But I'm also like, you know, we're gonna 689 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.039 go nuts having twenty four to seven markets and all 690 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.280 these things trading, you know while we're sleep being in 691 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:00.800 much more. 692 00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:05.000 Yeah. I mean I also think, and not necessarily as 693 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.719 it relates to twenty four seven trading, but I also think, like, 694 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.800 just because the tech enables it, does it mean that 695 00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:17.480 it needs to happen. For example, the technology enables kind 696 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:23.559 of atomic DVP settling or swapping an asset for a payment, 697 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.679 which means that if you kind of look ahead, not 698 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:32.159 just twenty four seven trading and settlement or trading, but 699 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.599 also twenty for seven settlement and gross settlement. Right, So 700 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:39.039 theoretically assets and payments are going to be swapped, swapping 701 00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.159 or can be swapping in gross or engross in gross 702 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.559 in a way that might not necessarily be uber capital 703 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:52.400 efficient for institutions. And so just because that can happen, 704 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:54.800 there's a question of whether it should happen. And so 705 00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:59.840 rather than just continuously swapping and settling assets for payments, 706 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:05.280 maybe it makes sense to net trades on a on 707 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:09.199 an intra day basis more regularly that in a way 708 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.079 addresses a lot of the kind of counterparty credit risk 709 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.280 and other types of risks that you know, clearing house 710 00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:19.719 is kind of addressed today, right, But do you have 711 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.679 to go to the other extreme, like maybe not? And 712 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.960 so I think there's a lot of kind of innovation 713 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.360 and thinking to be done from a business standpoint of 714 00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:31.119 what and in regulatory of like what actually makes sense 715 00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.639 in the context of the business as it marries to 716 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:36.280 the technological capabilities. 717 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.480 Yeah, that's a great point. Just because we can doesn't 718 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:42.119 mean we have to. And maybe in the cases where 719 00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.119 we have to, and yes, you have international teams, but 720 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:47.599 that's maybe where AI agents and much more can come 721 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:48.039 into play. 722 00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.239 Yeah, I mean throw AI in there, and you know, 723 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.280 I'm sure the possibilities are endless, and so yeah, it's 724 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:58.639 really interesting to think about how the tech enables certain 725 00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:02.280 things and how does the business as well as the 726 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:06.280 regulatory component keep up because there's also a lot of 727 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.840 questions around, especially in the context of tokenized assets, the 728 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:18.119 ability to leverage and transport digital identity and so today 729 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:22.280 like it technically it's possible to have an NFT of 730 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.960 all of your credentials and technically tokenization platforms can read 731 00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:31.679 those credentials and determine that you are KSC, that you're 732 00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:35.639 an a credited investor, But from a regulatory standpoint, that's 733 00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:41.760 not necessarily doable today, and so it's solved by the tech. 734 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.519 But how does the kind of regulatory part keep up 735 00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:46.800 and evolve? You still have a lot of those kind 736 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:47.639 of open questions. 737 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.320 Oh absolutely, I did want to ask you about unchain 738 00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:55.599 lending and borrowing and the whole DeFi aspect or ecosystem 739 00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:59.360 on Avalanche. I'm a big believer in DeFi, but it 740 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:01.639 feels like we're still in version one point where there's 741 00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:04.239 still tweaks that need to be made. We still see exploits. 742 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.079 You know, what's your outlook on DeFi, but also you know, 743 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.159 tell us about what's being built on Avalanche. 744 00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:13.119 Yeah, yeah, in the grand scheme of things, Even though 745 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:15.639 DeFi has been around for a long time, I still 746 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.599 think it's it's early, but it is exciting to see 747 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:24.760 various types of DeFi protocols, Barlin protocols specifically like the 748 00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:29.079 MorphOS and Aves of the world partnering with very large 749 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:33.000 and established FinTechs, whether it's coinbase or wop or others 750 00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:37.199 where you're really starting to see the convergence in production 751 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:43.360 really at scale. And so I think it's mature enough 752 00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:48.480 at least to see that convergence to the point where 753 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:50.840 to your point, is your mom going and getting like 754 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:54.360 a loan on ave. Probably not, But to the extent 755 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.760 that those types of capabilities are powered in the back 756 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.519 end on fidelity, like that could be really interesting. I think. 757 00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:05.480 I think there's a bunch of innovation happening in this space. 758 00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:09.239 I think vaults infrastructure is like the hot topic in 759 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:12.239 meta today. A lot of different types of asset managers 760 00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:16.239 are exploring the idea of being curators and using the 761 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:20.039 capabilities of the vault infrastructure and overlaying like a regulatory 762 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:24.400 lens with being able to form capital more quickly and 763 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.039 more efficiently, to be able to distribute funds in a 764 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:32.800 more efficient way in terms of like fund disbursements and allocations. 765 00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:36.760 And so I think like the DeFi primitives are being 766 00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:39.599 considered in the context of like how again how tratfy 767 00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:43.880 operates today, things like term loans I know, are being 768 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.079 explored as well. Right, so if you have like a 769 00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:48.800 loan on a certain platform, it's kind of annoying to 770 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:53.000 like continuously monitor LTV and your positions so to the 771 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:54.960 extent you can kind of take out like a term loan. 772 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.039 I think that's something that is actively being explored today. 773 00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:04.159 So the building blocks are there, but there's definitely tweaks, optimizations, 774 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.280 and net new innovations that are that are being explored, 775 00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:11.440 especially with the introduction of more and more real world 776 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:15.440 assets or tokenized assets coming into this space. As these 777 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.800 you know, various looping strategies are explored, there's a lot 778 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.639 of things that people are working to figure out as 779 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:25.079 it relates to on chain nav as well as liquidation mechanisms, 780 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.239 particularly for less liquid assets, And so I think all 781 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:31.199 of this stuff is actively being worked on today. 782 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.639 Yeah, and maybe going back to the theme we talked 783 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:38.360 about earlier, TRADIFI coming in an assisting with DeFi or 784 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:41.800 offering some of their own DeFi solutions that could help 785 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:44.519 it's mature or grow past some of these things we're 786 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:45.639 experiencing now. 787 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:50.039 Totally totally and I think like an interesting way, and 788 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.239 maybe this is more C five related, but I think, 789 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:56.480 you know, when we saw kind of the various unfortunate 790 00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:58.400 series of events that happened in twenty twenty two, and 791 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.679 twenty twenty three. I mean a lot of it was 792 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:03.679 stuff that already caused kind of blow ups in trad 793 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.840 fy in some way, shape or form historically, which is 794 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:11.159 why we have certain like market structure, regulation and standardization, 795 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.199 and so I do think to your point, there will 796 00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:16.760 be a little bit more kind of like institutional rigor 797 00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:21.639 and and an innovation that's hopefully kind of overlaid on 798 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.480 some of these cryptonative primitives. 799 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.719 All right, final item here next twelve to twenty four months. 800 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.119 What do you what are your priorities? What are you 801 00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:32.960 doubling down on? 802 00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:37.880 That's a good question. We're we're and I think I 803 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.280 mentioned this earlier. We're spending a lot of time on 804 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:44.079 private credit and specifically asset back to finance and fintech lending. 805 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:50.079 I think that space is really interesting because really there's 806 00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:54.920 no there's no clearing house, there's no exchange. It's very 807 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:58.320 bilateral as it operates today, and it's really an area 808 00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.000 that I think is still very pig not standardized, and 809 00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:06.679 really can therefore stand to benefit from this tech being blockchain, 810 00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:11.320 stable coins, tokenization, and smart contracts, and so to the 811 00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:15.840 extent that this tech can really be introduced as upstream 812 00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:20.280 as possible in the origination of loans, for example, you 813 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:23.440 can start to kind of create an environment an opportunity 814 00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:28.320 for verification and servicing to be done on chain as well, 815 00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:31.679 and as a result of that really start to chip 816 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:35.400 away at a lot of the third party service providers 817 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:40.159 that currently today take a ton of fees between the 818 00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.760 ultimate borrower and the ultimate lender, where you know, at 819 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:49.159 scale you can start to even provide more competitive rates 820 00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.880 to borrowers and better rates of return to lenders. And 821 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:56.079 so this is a space where we're working with a 822 00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:59.800 variety of different capital partners, credit infrastructure platforms to bring 823 00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:05.119 both crypto or blockchain native originators as well as web 824 00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:10.400 two thin tech originators onto avalanche by way of by 825 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:13.360 way of this tech, where again, it solves real world 826 00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.079 problems for the space, right like the prevention of the 827 00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:20.280 double pledging of collateral, the ability to kind of monitor 828 00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.519 collateral in real time and do kind of compliance risk 829 00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:25.960 management in real time as opposed to on a delay 830 00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:29.719 by thirty days via PDF. All of these things are 831 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:33.800 solving real world problems for the kind of ABF space 832 00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:36.679 which we're really excited about. And so that's one of 833 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.079 the few areas that we're very focused on. Obviously, stable 834 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.559 clint adoption by both retail as well as kind of 835 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.199 institutions on a B to B and wholesale payments perspective 836 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:49.239 is something that you know we have and continue to 837 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.840 focus on as well. And then tokenization in various shapes 838 00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:56.000 or forms. But but I say a lot, so let 839 00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:56.519 me pause. 840 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.519 There all great stuff, love it, And like I said 841 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.280 at the beginning, I'm a fan of the Avalanche ecosystem 842 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.880 EVAX tokenholders. I'm excited to see the future updates. I 843 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:07.599 have some wrap up questions here for you. They are 844 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:09.480 rapid fire. Favorite food. 845 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:12.679 I love a good burger, so i'll say burger. 846 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:15.960 Favorite musician or band. 847 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.079 I've been listening to a lot of shaw De recently, 848 00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:23.679 which is like very I feel like cliche, but so good. 849 00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:29.679 Favorite movie, favorite movie. My favorite chick flick is How 850 00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:32.360 to Lose a Guy in Ten Days. But I like, 851 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:38.159 you know, mel Brooks movies, and you know, really any 852 00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:40.440 type of movie that's not a horror movie. I really 853 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:46.280 don't like horror movies. So favorite book. I've been reading 854 00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:48.719 a lot of books around kind of like spirituality and 855 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:53.280 manifestation and positive thinking, which really helps to offset a 856 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:56.880 lot of like the deep digital asset, crypto smart contract 857 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:00.119 research that I do on a day day basis. So 858 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:01.840 so it's been good to kind of balance it out 859 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:02.679 with those types of books. 860 00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.880 Yes, good stuff. And when you're not working, what do 861 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:05.519 you do for fun? 862 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.039 I'm trying to be active because my job requires me 863 00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:12.480 to either be on the ground at a conference doing 864 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.480 things like this or sitting up my computer for hours 865 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.719 on end. So try to be as active as possible, 866 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:22.679 plates tennis, skiing, So try to try to get some 867 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:23.360 activity in. 868 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.480 Well, I'm with you on that. I'm in the same 869 00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:27.719 boat at the computer or doing this. 870 00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.760 Maybe next time we can do a tennis less of 871 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:31.400 you know that. 872 00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:35.480 That's actually it's funny. I was thinking about podcast themes 873 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.679 and you know you have hot ones eating hot wings 874 00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:41.159 while having an interview, right, maybe I can. 875 00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:43.960 Introduce it so engage to get the person vulnerable because 876 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.360 it's so spicy. But I, yeah, I think we have 877 00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:47.079 to keep nuling that. 878 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:49.320 Yeah, I had to come up with a good idea. Morgan, 879 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.920 absolute pleasure. Love what's happening with the avalanche ecosystem. Thank 880 00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:54.760 you so much for joining me, Thank you for having me. 881 00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.119 Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit the 882 00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.880 like button subscribe if you haven't as if you're listening 883 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:04.119 on a podcast platform such as Spotify or Apple, please 884 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.039 follow and leave a five star rating. Thank you so much.