WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.719 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 7 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:43.200 Good evening. In the quiet town of Mount Pleasant, Iowa, 8 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:47.719 the idyllic calm of nineteen seventy eight was shattered by 9 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:53.039 a series of brutal murders. Carol Beavers, of Vivacious High 10 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:58.439 School junior and her mother, Clementine became the unsuspecting victims 11 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.679 of a heinous act of violence that left the community 12 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:07.040 reeling For six months, the case went cold, fear gripping 13 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:12.680 a town unaccustomed to locking its doors. Then another shocking 14 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:18.680 murder occurred, tying the threads of horror together. A Monster 15 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.840 in Mount Pleasant delves into the unraveling of this dark chapter. 16 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:28.560 Drawing from years of meticulous research, The story reveals not 17 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:33.359 just the pursuit of justice, but the profound emotional scars 18 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:37.599 left behind, from the shattered dreams of a bright young 19 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:42.239 girl to the lifelong grief of families torn apart. This 20 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:48.879 book captures the deep humanity behind the headlines. This compelling 21 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.799 narrative is told through the eyes of a classmate of 22 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:56.959 Carol and the murderer, now a federal judge. The author 23 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:01.120 unearthed the societal cracks that shape both the victims and 24 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:06.079 the perpetrator. It's a haunting journey into a community forever 25 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:10.879 changed by tragedy, where resilience and the quest for truth 26 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:16.639 stand as testaments that those lost too soon. The book 27 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.240 they were featuring this evening is A Monster in Mount Pleasant, 28 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:25.120 A Story of murders and Justice, with my special guest 29 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:30.199 author CJ. Williams. Welcome to the program, and thank you 30 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.080 very much for this interview. CJ. Williams. 31 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.879 Thank you for inviting me to do this interview here today. 32 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:38.759 I look forward to it. 33 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.680 And congratulations on this book, A Monster in Mount Pleasant. 34 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.039 Thank you. I'm happy to have finally got it accomplished 35 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:50.879 for all these years of thinking about it. 36 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:58.159 Tell us of your connection to this area, this Mount Pleasant, 37 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.319 and also to this story. Tell us how you came 38 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:04.479 to be and wanted to be the author of this book, 39 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:06.199 A Monster in Mount Pleasant. 40 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.599 I'd be happy to so. I grew up in Mount Pleasant, 41 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:15.080 small town eight thousand people southeast Iowa. Pleasant quiet little 42 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:18.400 town back in nineteen seventies, and I grew up there, 43 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:22.599 and it was a safetown back in those days. The 44 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:24.840 last time there had been any murder of Mount Pleasant 45 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.360 had been back in the nineteen forties. It was policed 46 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:33.000 by a small police force, eight manned police force. The 47 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.879 chief of police was guy in his late twenties who 48 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.120 had no police training really and didn't really need it 49 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:43.439 in a town that size. But in the course of 50 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:48.280 about six months, one of my classmates was brutally murdered, 51 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:51.879 raped as she was dying on the garage floor of 52 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.439 her house. Her mother had been shot and killed first 53 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:00.000 during the assault. The crime was unsolved for six months 54 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.319 months the town was in terror. Six months later, a 55 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:07.520 waitress at a restaurant where I worked as a dishwasher 56 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:11.039 was brutally beaten to death in the early morning hours 57 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.280 and died a few days later in the hospital. It 58 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.759 turned out that the perpetrator the murder of all these 59 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.639 women was a classmate of mine, a year ahead of 60 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.000 me in high school, who had his own kind of 61 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:28.160 sad story. But I lived during that time period. I 62 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.959 lived during those murders, and it was a shock to 63 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.959 the community and a shock to my family directly. I 64 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.360 knew Carol, she was a classmate of mine. I wasn't 65 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.360 real close with her. My older brother was closer, but 66 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.680 our families were close to the Beavers family. Carol Beaver's 67 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.839 her mother, Clementine Max Beavers, her dad ran a small 68 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:51.920 grocery store in town where we shopped, and everybody knew 69 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.160 Max and Clementine. It was a shock in that sense. 70 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.240 It was a shock that my mother, who was a 71 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:01.720 newspaper reporter and edited and photographer at the time, was 72 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.879 recruited by the Bureau of and Criminal Investigation to come 73 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.879 and take photographs at the scene. That was common back then. 74 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:12.800 Police forces didn't have cell phones back then with their 75 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:16.639 own cameras, and taking photographs in the dark and so 76 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.160 forth was a talent, and so they would call upon 77 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.240 the local newspaper photographers come out and take photos of 78 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:26.519 crime scenes. So my first knowledge of the murders of 79 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.319 the Beavers was when I woke up at about five 80 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.360 am and found my mother out in a living room 81 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:36.600 with my father and a couple of friends, drinking and 82 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.360 crying because she just got back from taking photographs at 83 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:43.160 the murder scene, and so this at home. And then 84 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.639 it got even worse when Monte Seeger, the high school 85 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:52.399 boy who murdered all these women, was later evidence was 86 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:57.120 suppressed and he wasn't prosecuted for many years later. And 87 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.800 so all this happened at a very formative time in 88 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:04.199 my life life when my safe cocoon of a little 89 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:08.160 town of Mount Pleasant was shattered. Everybody was in fear, 90 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:13.040 the complacency, the security that we used to have was gone. 91 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:15.639 And then you had, on top of that the frustration 92 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.519 that you couldn't do anything about it. And then you 93 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:23.240 have the frustration of the legal system seemingly failing to 94 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.079 hold this man accountable for the murders he committed. Had 95 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:29.879 a huge, huge influence on me, a huge influence on 96 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.160 my twin brother. He later became a police officer. He 97 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.720 died in line of duty about three years ago. And 98 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.000 then I think it led me to get into law 99 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:41.120 enforcement and ultimately become a prosecutor and now a federal 100 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:45.560 judge because it had such an impact on our lives. 101 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.279 I think my brother and I both felt like we 102 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.319 had to do something. I think that influenced us in 103 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.439 our futures. 104 00:06:53.519 --> 00:07:00.600 Very interesting. Let's get to your description of Clementine, Clementine 105 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:05.480 pardon me, and Max and Carol. You say Carol's almost 106 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.800 like an only child, just because her other siblings have 107 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.720 already moved on, and she was conceived when she was 108 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.759 when Clementine or Clementine pardon me, was forty two years old. 109 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.480 So just tell us a little bit about Max and 110 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:23.279 Clementine and Carol, and a little bit about what was 111 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.639 happening in their lives October twenty eighth, just previous to 112 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.639 October twenty ninth, nineteen seventy eight. 113 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.319 I'd be happy to so. Max, a World War Two veteran, 114 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:37.959 served in the Navy, and it was in the Navy 115 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:44.519 where he suffered some hearing loss. He and Clementine, who 116 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:47.800 was working in a post office in a small town 117 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.319 near Mount Pleasant, had met before the war and then 118 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.920 got married during the war. A good Catholic family. They 119 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.839 had eight children. Carol, as you mentioned, was the last 120 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.720 of eight children, and children were spread out over many years, 121 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:07.720 so her oldest brother was some twenty years older than Carol. 122 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.439 But so in nineteen seventy eight, Carol was the only 123 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.560 child left at home. Most of her siblings were around town. 124 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.959 A couple out of state, but most of his siblings 125 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:25.439 were around town living nearby. Every Sunday morning they went 126 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:30.160 to Mass at the church. Max was well known in town. 127 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.159 He was just assault of the earth kind of guy. 128 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:36.879 Back in those days. He would allow people to have 129 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.000 credit accounts at his grocery store, and so if people 130 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.159 couldn't pay for their groceries, they could buy groceries on credit. 131 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.159 He would often write off debts that poor families had 132 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:51.960 so they can make sure they could eat. He and 133 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.600 Carol liked golf, and so they were known to golf 134 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:04.279 and father daughter tournaments the local country club. Clementine was 135 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.879 a stay at home mom for most of the part, 136 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.440 but she also helped out at the grocery store at 137 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:15.080 the time as well. Just a real sweet family. Carol 138 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.960 was bubbly, energetic. Her locker in the high school was 139 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.919 in the same hallway as mine, And what I remember 140 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:27.480 most is her constant laughing and giggling. She had a 141 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:31.159 very unique, infectious laugh, and she was a very bubbly 142 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.080 person and cheerleaders one might imagine with some kind of 143 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.039 somebody with that kind of personality and they're just a 144 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:42.080 very sweet kind girl. Her aspiration one day was to 145 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:42.799 be an architect. 146 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.840 You write about the home that the Beavers lived in, 147 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.039 and also the practice at that time in small town 148 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.679 America that they would leave the doors unlocked, and so 149 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.960 people were very trusting in those days. Tell us about 150 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:06.240 the situation that enabled this person a person to sneak 151 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:07.000 into this home. 152 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:11.759 Sure, I mean it's ironic in a way, because Clementine 153 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.639 was a little bit different from the typical Mount pleasanter 154 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:18.600 back in those days. So I remember, we never locked 155 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.720 the doors to our house growing up. Nobody did. Really. 156 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.440 We would leave our cars in the driveway with the 157 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:27.639 keys in the ignition because it was just easier that way, 158 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.799 and if you needed to move cars around, people could 159 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:35.440 do that and things went untouched. There just wasn't any burglaries, thefts, 160 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.519 that kind of stuff really to speak of in Mount 161 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.440 Pleasant in those days. Clementine was a little bit different. 162 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.679 And Clementine had a routine. Max always got up five 163 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:48.200 am or earlier in order to go into the grocery 164 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.279 store to start the baking, and so he went to 165 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:55.759 bed early every night, usually around eight thirty, and he 166 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.679 would go up to bed. Clementine liked to watch the 167 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:02.759 nightly news, and she would stay down in their basement furnished. 168 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.559 They had built a little bar down there, and it 169 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.120 was a kind of a TV room, if you will. 170 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:12.240 She would stay downstairs and watch the news. And then 171 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.960 it was her routine every night when she came up 172 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:17.919 after watching the news to go to bed, that she 173 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:21.639 would lock the doors to the house, which was very unusual, 174 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.240 but that was her routine. On this particular night. The 175 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:30.440 murders occurred sometime between nine ten o'clock at night. Clementine 176 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:34.320 was downstairs. Clementine, I'm sorry. It was downstairs watching TV 177 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:39.480 when she was murdered, And so it's interesting, ironic. Had 178 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:43.240 she had this taken place an hour later or so, 179 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.639 Clementine's schedule would have counted for her locking the door, 180 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.240 and the money secer would not have been able to 181 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.080 gain entry to the house. Any other house on that 182 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.080 block you probably could have gotten into, but not the 183 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:58.639 Beaver's house. But on this particular night, you struck before Clementine, 184 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.039 in her normal routine locked up. 185 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:07.320 You write about that he likely, this perpetrator likely might 186 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:12.799 have seen her Clementine watching TV. He came into the basement. 187 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.600 You say that he likely heard some noise upstairs, but 188 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:24.000 decided to go into the basement. Clementine unaware. He attacked 189 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.159 her from behind, shot her in the back of the head. 190 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.600 Tell us what happens, and where is Carol at this time? 191 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.840 And where is Max at this time? Tell us what 192 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:40.840 happens with this perpetrator and after this initial attack of Clementine. 193 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.679 Sure, and so part of this is based upon the 194 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.759 forensic evidence, the circumstantial evidence, my years of experience as 195 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.399 a prosecutor and as a judge kind of piecing things together. 196 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.440 And part of it's based on what Money Seeger himself 197 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.120 told me. I interviewed Money Seger three times in the 198 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.320 prison and Moosa, Iowa, and he, for the first time 199 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.840 confessed committing the Beaver's murders to me. His version is 200 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.519 one where he claimed it was kind of a spur 201 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:15.000 of the moment, accidental kind of thing, premeditated. I don't 202 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.440 buy that for a number of reasons. So here's what 203 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:21.480 I think happened. Explain why I think it happened that way. 204 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.480 The basement had small basement windows that you could look through, 205 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.879 and Clementine and Carol were both downstairs watching TV for 206 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:36.759 a while when she goes upstairs. Sometime around nine o'clock, 207 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:39.919 she was trying to get a hold of a boyfriend 208 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.720 that she had been dating and they had split up, 209 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:45.440 and so she was trying to make a call to him. 210 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:50.879 Clementine stayed downstairs, and so I think that Monty was 211 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.720 outside casing the place. He was looking through the basement window. 212 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.799 And it was when Carol separated from Clementine that gave 213 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.360 him his opportunities strike and the best opportunity to kill 214 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.080 them separately. Max In the meantime, I had gone to 215 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.159 bed at about eight o'clock, between eight and eight thirty, 216 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.639 he had gone to bed and was down the hall 217 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.960 upstairs across from Carol's room, and Carol was in her 218 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:21.960 room listening to the radio and trying to call a 219 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.879 friend of hers, trying to locate her kind of ex 220 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.120 boyfriend at the time when Monty entered in through the 221 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.679 garage unlocked garage door. From there he entered into the 222 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.840 kitchen from the garage immediately to the left of the 223 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.759 stairs going down to the basement. He snuck down the stairs, 224 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:42.120 came up behind Clementine, put the rifle twenty two collars 225 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.480 or bold action rifle, put it up against the back 226 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.200 of her head and pulled the trigger. The way this 227 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:51.759 rifle operated was it was a manual feed, meaning he 228 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:55.720 had to pull the trigger and then he would have 229 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:59.159 to pull the bolt back, which would have ejected the 230 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.960 showcasing from that first shot. He would have then had 231 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:06.480 to have loaded another bullet and then push the bolt 232 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:10.919 forward in order to discharge firearm again. No shell casings 233 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:14.120 were found anywhere in the house. That tells me that 234 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.120 he was careful enough to pick up the shell caseinges 235 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.600 after a shot, which tells me this is somebody who's 236 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.320 thinking things through. No fingerprints were found anywhere in the house, 237 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.080 which tells me he was wearing gloves at the time. 238 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.960 So he kills Clementine goes upstairs. Carol had heard a 239 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.039 shot and heard something, and she came running down the 240 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.480 hallway to figure out what the loud noise was. I 241 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.360 don't know that she knew it was a gunshot, but 242 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.840 she came running down the hallway as Monty was coming 243 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:47.919 up the stairs into the kitchen. They met in the kitchen. 244 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:53.039 At that point, Monty raises the barrel of the gun 245 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.519 and points to that Carol's face. We know this because 246 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.919 she has a defensive wound. The first shot goes through 247 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.519 her left arm and acrossed her cheekbone and out the 248 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.840 side of her head. It didn't actually enter her skull, 249 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.759 but it was enough to knock her down. According to 250 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.480 the pathologist, the blow from that shot, Monty would have 251 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.440 you believe that the gun just accidentally went off. That 252 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:21.240 makes no sense. Carol would not have had the defensive 253 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.159 move of putting her hand in front of her face 254 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.240 if the gun burl had not been pointed at her, 255 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.759 and she likely recognized Monty they had a speech class together. 256 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.120 Once she was down, Monty came up to her and 257 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.960 then put the gun behind her left ear. I'm sorry, 258 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.120 you're right here, and put another bullet into her head 259 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.600 at that point. Then he dragged her out to the garage, 260 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.200 stripped her pants off of her, pulled down, pulled up 261 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.240 her shirt, pulled down her broad and raped her as 262 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.519 she was dying in the garage. So he shot her 263 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:59.080 twice in the kitchen. As I just related, no shewcases 264 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.559 were found there, which means he was careful enough to 265 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:06.559 pick up the shellcasings from those two bullet discharges as well. 266 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.720 All this time, maxis asleep down the hallway. I remember 267 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:13.359 he had hearing loss from his service in the war, 268 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.839 and he was asleep and so he didn't hear any 269 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:20.039 of this and slept through the entire thing. He wakes 270 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:24.400 up a round one thirty in the morning. His Clementine 271 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.000 is not in bed next to him, which was unusual 272 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.720 and of course, and so he went out to investigate 273 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.960 and first found Carol. He saw a trail of blood 274 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.559 from the kitchen leading out to the garage. His initial 275 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.759 thought was as somebody cut themselves really badly somehow and 276 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.240 probably went to the doctor. And he went out to 277 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.440 the garage to see if the car was gone, and 278 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.319 that's where he found his daughter. I felt her, she 279 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.480 was cool. He goes back inside. He calls the police. 280 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.599 Back in those days, there was no nine one one, 281 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.640 so he tries to dial the police using the long number. 282 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:02.240 He's off by a diday. He gets a stranger in town, 283 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:07.440 mumbles out some words. The stranger gets enough to understand 284 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:09.720 that the police are needed at the Beavers home and 285 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:13.000 tells Max he'll take care of it. And then Max 286 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:18.200 goes downstairs to find Clementine and finds her dead downstairs. 287 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.799 So that's how Max came to discover the murder of 288 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.200 his wife and his youngest daughter. 289 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:30.119 But Jesus has an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. Yes, 290 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:35.480 this is an incredibly vivid scene that you create in 291 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:40.680 this book. The idea that a sergeant Duncan arrives immediately 292 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.079 and doesn't know the particulars yet, and he's in a 293 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:50.319 dark garage. He hears a voice. He discovers Carol's body 294 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.119 and all the blood, and notices that her clothes are 295 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:59.519 missing from the waist down. But he when he gets 296 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:01.279 his person, he urges this person to come out of 297 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:07.200 the garage. This person is disoriented. Max is completely disoriented. 298 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.559 He has stunned. His arms are flailing away. You say, spastically, 299 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:16.960 tell us what happens in this incredible vivid scene. 300 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.480 Yeah, I mean imagine this. So you're you're an officer 301 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:25.200 in Mount Pleasant who has never encountered violent crime like 302 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:29.880 this ever. You're one of two officers on duty. It's 303 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.440 the middle of the night. The only other officer is 304 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:36.599 a rookie who just joined the police force six months before, 305 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:40.079 and you're called to this horrific scene where all you 306 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.400 know is that somebody's been shot. That's the most that 307 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.880 Max is able to convey to this other person that 308 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.759 got conveyed ultimately to the officer. So So shows up 309 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.519 to the scene. He has a flashlight, he has a 310 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.519 three point fifty seven magnum revolver, pulls a revolver because 311 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:01.119 he sees movement, as you mentioned in the garage, here's 312 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:04.079 something in the garage. He can see enough into the 313 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.279 garage with a flashlight beam to see a body, half naked, 314 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.880 body on the floor with blood. So he knows things 315 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:15.039 are bad and he calls out to whoever's in the 316 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.519 garage to come out with their hands up pall several times. 317 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.920 The officer related this to me. He's scared to death 318 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:23.920 at this point. He has no idea what he's going 319 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.000 to encounter, and his finger is on the trigger of 320 00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.799 the revolver of the three point fifty seven magnum. When 321 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.200 Max finally starts to come out, a Max is worrying. 322 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.279 He's disheveled, his hairs dishevel He's got a pajama top on. 323 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.480 He had managed to pull some pants on, but he 324 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.599 is in shock and he's mumbling incomprehensively. Hands are as 325 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:50.680 you said, spastic moving all about. According to the officer 326 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.759 and it's dark, and so, as the officer described it 327 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.920 to me, Max wasn't stopping. He ordered Max to stop 328 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.079 once he came outside, he wasn't stopping. At the last second, 329 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:09.079 the officer recognizes Max and recognized him from the store. 330 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.279 Anybody who knew Max knew he wasn't anybody to be afraid. 331 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:18.720 He wasn't violent, and so the officer immediately released the 332 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.400 tension he had on the trigger. He said he came 333 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.119 very close to killing Max that night. About that time, 334 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:29.400 the rookie shows up. Max's oldest son shows up because 335 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.319 Max had managed to call his son as well, and 336 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:37.039 so the officer puts Max in his son's care, tells 337 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.319 the rookie to go around back the house, and then 338 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:42.000 the officer makes the brave decision to enter the house 339 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.960 because he's convinced the killer is still inside. Max mumbled 340 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.599 something about his wife, and so the officer enters the 341 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:53.440 house alone in the full belief that the murderer is 342 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.880 still inside. He goes through the top floor the main 343 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.079 floor of the house and finds nobody, So now he 344 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.400 has to go in the basement. There's only one way 345 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.519 in and one way out of the basement, and so 346 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.519 as he's going down the basement stairs, he's convinced that 347 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.759 he's going to encounter the murder down the basement, and 348 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.559 yet he carries on. He can hear some dripping coming 349 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.599 from the basement. He doesn't know what the dripping is. 350 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.799 He discovers the dripping sound as the dripping of blood 351 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.839 coming from Clementine's head into a puddle beneath her as 352 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.519 she lay slumped over in the chair. Ultimately, nobody else 353 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.759 is found in the house. Ambulance spears personnel arrived soon after. 354 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.559 Now you say that the murders sends shock waves through 355 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.599 the mount pleasant, Well, that's of course that would happen. 356 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.920 But also you talk about the autopsy of when it 357 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.279 reveals and some of the things that like the locket 358 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.319 that the heart shaped locket that seems to be missing. 359 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:04.920 Just tell us what the autopsy reveals about the crimes committed. 360 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:11.839 Yeah, So the autopsy showed Clementine was killed probably fairly instantly. 361 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.119 She had a single gunshot, one in the back of 362 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.480 the head. It was a twenty two Cloiber rifle. And 363 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:22.279 what many people don't understand is a low velocity twenty 364 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:26.039 two caliber seems it's a very small bullet in many ways, 365 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:28.000 you know, maybe three times the size of a babe. 366 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:30.680 It can be very deadly because it doesn't have enough 367 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.839 velocity to exit. And so what happens when it goes 368 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:38.160 into a cavity like your orso or your head, is 369 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:42.200 it will bounce around inside and tear things apart. And 370 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.799 so that's what happened when it went into Clementine's skull. 371 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.160 It bounced around inside her skull, scrambling her brain and 372 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:53.519 ultimately lodging right in front of her teeth. Harold again, 373 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.599 I described the wounds on her. She had been raped. 374 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:03.200 They did recover some semen. In those days, DNA didn't exist, 375 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:06.720 DNA testing didn't exist, and so what they were able 376 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:09.279 to tell was blood type and that the person was 377 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:14.559 a secret So some of us secrete blood in our saliva, 378 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.279 in our body of fluids, sweat and so forth, and 379 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:20.720 some of us don't. So if you, if you had 380 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.000 faint amount of blood that comes out in those circumstances, 381 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.640 you're coldest secretor. And Monte segu was a secreter. He 382 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:33.519 had sucked on Peril's nipple and from that saliva they 383 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.440 had obtained his blood type as well as from the semen, 384 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:40.079 but that's all we had back in those days. It 385 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.079 was just blood type. He had a blood type that 386 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.960 as a screeter, basically thirty five percent of the population 387 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.920 could be could be the perpetrator. So it didn't give 388 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:54.440 a lot of leads to the police. And so there 389 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.559 were no fingerprints recovered from the scene. There were some oddities. 390 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.359 So there was some unknow fingerprints on the hood of 391 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.119 the car that was right next to Carol where she 392 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.200 was raped, but that could have been left at any 393 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:10.240 time by anybody. Carol gone out to a restaurant earlier 394 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.079 that night, a fast food restaurant, and some high school kid, 395 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:17.079 for all we know, leaned against the car and put 396 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:21.200 his hand on it. There was a stray pubic care 397 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.319 that was found on Carol's clothes. I was later told 398 00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:28.160 I did a book talking unpleasant about this book back 399 00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.680 in April, and the Beaver's family, who were very supportive 400 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.839 about this book, came up to talk to me afterwards. 401 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.559