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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators podcast. Listen to

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some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet

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share their stories, Sit back and enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, folks for another episode. Today, we have a

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great guest, Clark Impostato. He served eight years in the

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United States military. From nineteen ninety five to two thousand

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and one. He served in the US Navy on the

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USSS Shiloh and at Seal Team five Fox trop Platoon.

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During that time, he deployed to the Persian Gulf in

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Southeast Asia. After separating from the Navy, he served with

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the nineteenth Group Special Forces from two thousand and two

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to two thousand and three. From two thousand and three

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to two thousand and seven, he continued service as a

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private military contractor. He deployed multiple time to Israel, Afghanistan,

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and Iraq. Upon returning home to the US, though he

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didn't stop, he continued on and he's served with the

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Phoenix Police Department from two thousand and eight to twenty sixteen.

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He says, now after all that he's been rocking and rolling,

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joking and living, you can find him a good vised

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podcast with Clark and Pastato and Ryan g By the way,

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his last name is I am past at O. Before

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we get started, to make sure to share, subscribe and

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hit that like but you know we like it. It's

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not waste any more time. And welcome the former Navy

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CeAl Clark and Pistada.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Clark, Hey, thanks for having me. I'm stoked.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here. This is so

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much now. I've learned so much interviewing special forces, whether

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it's Navy seals to Green Berets. And I think next

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week we have sas coming on. Oh nice, because people

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don't really understand who you people are. They have a

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misting representation. But the amazing thing is how how would

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I put this? How amazing you individuals are not just

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because of what you did militarily but also psychologically, how

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much you've endured and how much you've overcome and your

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lives outside of that world. But before we get to

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all that, I guess my first question is always is

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whatever made you want.

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Speaker 3: To be a Navy Seal.

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Speaker 4: I think it was kind of a gradual increase to

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that decision I always attributed to My mom was a

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huge fan of World War Two. She was a kid

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during World War two. But as far as like when

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I was a kid growing up, she loved to watch

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World War two movies, you know, the Battle of Midway

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and all this other stuff. The Black Sheep Squadron, there

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was a TV show about the fire pilots, and so

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I just watching TV with her, I just really kind

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of fell in love with World War two and the

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concept of it, and you know, we're going to fight

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this Hitler dude, and then broke out in Pearl Harbor

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and we went out west and bought the Japanese and

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so I was just at our early age mesmerized by it.

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But then that it continued further with the course growing

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up in the eighties with all the Rambos and the

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commandos and the Schwartzeneggers. I mean, who didn't want to

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be a Greenberry army dude running around.

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Speaker 3: Saving the world.

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Speaker 4: And so I just it was always kind of on

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the back burner until I was in high school in

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the first Golf War kicked off, and I was glued

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to CNN at the time because that was the first

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for our news network, and so when.

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Speaker 3: The golf War popped off, I was just like, I

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have to do this.

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Speaker 4: This is amazing, Like I'm watching this almost real time,

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and I just thought, when I'm done with high school,

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like this is this is now off the back burner

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on one of the front burners, like this is gonna happen.

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I didn't have a timeline or anything like that, but

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when that kicked.

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Speaker 3: Off, I this is something I gotta do. You know.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how long I'll do it for or

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where I'm gonna end up, but that's when I really

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caught the bug.

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Speaker 2: Was the first golf for what's a fascinating story. So

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your mom was the one that motivate I can't remember.

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It was Robert cottrad of that blank sheep squadron.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember.

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Speaker 4: I was so young, but I just remember watching that shows.

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I really would love to be an old school fighter pilot.

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That would be like my dream job. If timeline wasn't

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I could go back in time. That would be just

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you know, the Western specific campaign flying airplanes and shooting

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down zeroes and that just I was like, that's the

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bees and ease Man's that's cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny you mentioned that because I think it

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was just last weekend I visited the Lions Museum down

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in Orange County and they have all those warplanes from.

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Speaker 3: The World War Two. Nice.

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Speaker 2: It was really a trip. And I think some of

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the guys were there.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, they were old enough.

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Speaker 2: I mean, no offense to them, but yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Getting harder to find them. They're getting they're getting older

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and older, those guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that generation is disappearing, unfortunately. And I know later

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on in the interview, I wanted to ask you a

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little bit about Hollywood, sure, and some of them movies.

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Maybe we'll get back to Rambo. I'm trying to think

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of some of the Navy Seal movies but just can't

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remember when off the top of my head.

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Speaker 4: It really wasn't except for the Charlie Sheen one that

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came out like in the nineties, and that was well,

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that's right, Yeah, that's what we thought the teams would be.

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Speaker 2: Like you're saying, it's not, well, I'll get into that.

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Let me ask you this about buds training. Everybody's always curious.

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You see the videos on YouTube and things of that nature,

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and it's one thing to watch a video a six

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minute clip, that's another to endure it. Tell us, Kyle,

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walk us through your very first moments of going into

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BUDS training. Did they shake your hands, say how you're

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doing pallor.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, orders waiting for you in a cancierge service and

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say hey, we're stoked to have you. No, it's it's

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very overwhelming, and there wasn't a lot of information. I

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showed up to Buds in ninety seven, the summer of

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ninety seven, so.

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Speaker 3: The internet really wasn't in full swing. There wasn't a

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lot of info.

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Speaker 4: The Navy recruiter laughed at you and showed you a

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ten minute video called be Someone Special, and it was

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like an old black and white UDT diver video.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a lot of info.

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Speaker 4: So what I liked about it is it was kind

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of a Scooby Doo adventure. You just each day was

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this new mystery that was unfolded in front of your eyes.

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Whereas now there's so much info out there. I think

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it kind of obviously you can't prepare for the real experience,

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but you have a heads up. I think it takes

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away a little bit of the mystery, the charm to it.

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When I showed up, you had no idea. I did

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have a neighbor when I was in the regular Navy

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that was a sniper at five and so I could

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ask him questions, but it wasn't enough pieces of the

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puzzle to really get that kind of bird's eye concept

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of what I was up against. Whereas now with all

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the documentaries and stuff, it just, in my opinion, kind

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of spoils it.

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Speaker 3: But when I was there, it was just overwhelming.

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Speaker 4: You can't believe I had to fight my way there

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from the regular Navy. It's been a year and a

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half in the fleet, chip and paint, so I was

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super pumped to be at seal training and we'll never

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have to grab a paintbrush again.

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Speaker 3: So I was pretty pumped about that.

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Speaker 4: And to be honest, that kind of did me a

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favor because a lot of guys go from boot camp

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to buds and I don't think they realize how special

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that opportunity is, and they throw it away a lot

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quicker than the guys that come from the fleet, because

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you know, if you quit that floating prisons waiting for you, you're

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going right back to the fleet. So for me not

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to get ahead of myself, anytime I was having a

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bad day and feeling sorry for myself, I would see

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a ship just off the coast of San diego and

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think I'm good. I don't want to go back to that.

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I'll sit with cold water and be happy. So I

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turned that negative into a positive and used my fleet

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experience to motivate me to get through the tough time.

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But I can't reiterate enough the awesome effect the first

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day of BUDS has on you.

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Speaker 3: It's just like it's just this epic thing that's in

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front of you.

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Speaker 4: But what I did realize is once you get settled,

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the instructors really do give you the keys of the castle.

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Speaker 3: They tell you how to succeed.

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Speaker 4: They tell you, don't look at this as a six

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month program because you'll freak yourself out and quit.

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Speaker 3: They taught us how do you.

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Speaker 4: Eat an elephant one bite at a time, And what

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they meant by that was survive the day. Maybe you

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just survived getting to lunch. Or more importantly, what I

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did is I just focused on the task at hand.

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Speaker 3: Whatever evolution we were doing, that's all I worried about.

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Speaker 4: So if we were doing a four mile time to

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beat run, I wasn't worried about the evolution after lunch,

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which might.

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Speaker 3: Be the obstacle course or you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: A lot of guys are like, shit, I failed this

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and I got this company. They psyched themselves out. So

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I took on board early on what they taught us

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to focus on it. And really that's the entire mindset

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of the sealed community. You don't really realize that at

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the time because of budge're kind of especially first phase.

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Speaker 3: You're kind of in kindergarten, if you will.

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Speaker 4: So any little nugget of wisdom they gave me I

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latched onto and I realized these documentaries and YouTube videos,

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it makes it seem almost a little bit marine corpus.

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They kind of ham it up a little bit for

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the camera and they yell a little bit more. But

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I thought of Buds as more of a gentleman's course.

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In fact, sometimes it's so evil that they're being nice

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to you.

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Speaker 3: You're kind of like, why.

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Speaker 4: Is this kind of like whispering at me, Like it's

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just kind of instead of all this shouting energy, like

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they just whisper in your ear light.

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Speaker 3: Now you look cold and wet. I got them purple

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in the van. All you got to do is quit

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like it's creepy, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: They really they get inside your head because as a

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human being. You can only do so many push ups

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and run so far, and some so far. They'll physically

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break you. But they even told you this little key

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for success. Never let us break you mentally. That's where

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you have to win. We're going to break you physically.

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Speaker 3: I don't care who you are.

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Speaker 4: They've had Olympic athletes, pro football players, all walks of

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life have gone through Buds, some successful, sometimes success. But

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the key ingreeting is you must never be mentally defeated.

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And I think that's something it's calmon in special operations.

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But Buds is different because of that cold water that

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will get inside your head when you're sitting in the

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drink for hours and hours and hours and the water.

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Speaker 3: Temp is like fifty degrees and you're shivering.

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Speaker 4: You could be the toughest dude in the world, Mike Tyson,

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but you don't want to sit in that cold water,

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so you quit. So that's unique, and it makes us

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a little different than other special operations selection processes. That

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cold water really has nothing to do with your physical ability.

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It's your state of mind, and you have to develop

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that early on and realize this is just a new

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part of my life.

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Speaker 3: And I either accept it or I'm going to go away.

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And you start to see people go away, some.

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Speaker 4: Bigger guys, some very athletic guys can't mentally handle that

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cold water, and so you realize early on, Hey, the

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key to this shit is your state of mind, your

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mental fortitude. And so luckily for me, I latched onto

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that pretty quickly and that served me.

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Speaker 3: Well throughout Buds.

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Speaker 4: It's just to remain calm, as they say, embrace the suck,

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except that this is your reality for now, and you're

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going to be wet all day, every day for six

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months if you're lucky. If you get injured or roll back,

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you could be in BUDS for over a year if

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you don't get through in one shot.

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Speaker 3: So oh wow.

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Speaker 4: Kind of an open ended course, depending on your success.

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You have to complete certain things along the way. If

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you get hurt or you get performance dropped. If you're

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a good dude, they might roll you back. They might not,

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they might drop you from the program. So it behooves

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you to.

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Speaker 3: Do it right the first time.

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Speaker 4: So's I did my best to stick to that, to

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that philosophy.

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Speaker 2: So that's the fascinating thing. I do these interviews, and

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I'm sure folks have heard it before. Is the psychological

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mindset of people in special forces. And I don't want

252
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to overgeneralize your guys, but everybody has a similar mindset.

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Sure you'd already did it early where you reframed the

254
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scenario you were in and then able to strengthen your

255
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mental fortitude as well, which is something I've I found

256
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sometimes when I've interviewed I think we're a similar age.

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Are you familiar with Larry Holmes, a boxer, No homes okay,

258
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Larry Holmes. He fought Mike Tyson and he fought Muhammad Ali.

259
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Oh okay, and same thing with him. And I asked him,

260
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what do you think about when you got knocked down?

261
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I expected him to say something like, oh my gosh,

262
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I got knocked down whatever he did, and he said,

263
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I got to figure out how to get back up

264
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and knock him out. And I thought, that's a whole

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different mindset. What a lot of people have. They just

266
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don't give up. And the Olympic athletes told me the

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same thing. Every time they failed or they didn't get somewhere.

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What they always came back to is how do I

269
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get it? I'm going to move aside? What just happened

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and go back to how do I get that goal?

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Speaker 4: You have to compartmentalize your defeat, and they teach us that.

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For example, when I went through buds, you were allowed

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to fail something twice, So if I failed a four

274
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mile time run, they would retest me, but if I

275
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failed a second four mile time run, you're gone. So

276
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if you fail something, you know the safety net's now gone.

277
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Speaker 3: You have one more chance at this.

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Speaker 4: But what they teach you is to to you have

279
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to data dump that. It's kind of like in advanced

280
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training when you're doing CQB and cleaning rooms. If you

281
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have a bad run and let's say you know, you

282
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sweep a guy or you to hostage target and then

283
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make you reset, you have to completely wipe that from

284
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your mind that you just screwed up. You have to

285
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go back in that house and have a good run.

286
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You have to be able to just compartmentalize that. You

287
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can revisit that failure later. There's a time and a.

288
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Speaker 3: Place for that, but it's not right then and there.

289
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Speaker 4: So they really are good at like you're saying, the

290
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athletes can do. There's lessons to be learned from failure,

291
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but oftentimes you have to reperform immediately and you can't

292
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dwell on that, and.

293
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Speaker 3: So that actually ends up serving you well in life.

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Speaker 4: For example, if you're having problems at home, you have

295
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to compartmentalize that, go to work and be a professional.

296
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Or if you're having financial problems, you got to compartmentalize that,

297
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go to work and be a professional. So it really

298
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a lot of my buddies that are civilians, they dwell

299
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on things, and I'm like, dude, just put that in

300
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your back pocket for now. Get through the day. When

301
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you're done with work and get home, that's when you

302
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can analyze what happened. You know why this happened or

303
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that happened. And so buds really taught me that if

304
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you mess something up, you can't let it eat you up.

305
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You have to to learn from it when the time

306
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is appropriate and then come back stronger. You've got to

307
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,320
Failure is not a bad thing. Everybody has a bad day,

308
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:11,679
has a bad week, messing something up. We all have talents,

309
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,960
you know. For me, I sucked at swimming. I had

310
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to swim scared, I had to basically run on the water.

311
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,879
I'm from Colorado, I'm just a little hillbilly that grew

312
00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:21,240
up at eight thousand feet. I probably should have been

313
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,120
a ranger or a Green Beret, but I got the

314
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,399
seal shit in my head. So I honestly had a

315
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,440
friend in college that taught me how to swim the

316
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,720
sidestroke so I could back fire.

317
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:33,799
Speaker 3: Had no idea beyond that.

318
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Speaker 4: And obviously there's a lot of water evolutions and buds

319
00:14:38,159 --> 00:14:41,159
and I was the worst swimmer in my class for

320
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,480
a long time, but I didn't let that beat me.

321
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:45,799
We would swim laps at the pool and I was

322
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,759
the last guy to get to the edge. These guys

323
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,679
had already been resting for fifteen twenty seconds. I hit

324
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,039
the edge and they say go. So I had no rest.

325
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,360
I was just back for just sucking in water. Thought

326
00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:00,240
I was gonna die. But in the true sp of

327
00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:04,000
buds and the instructors wanting you to be successful, they said,

328
00:15:04,039 --> 00:15:06,600
for those of you that suck at swimming, instructor so

329
00:15:06,679 --> 00:15:08,960
and so we'll be here Saturday at noon. I suggest

330
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,039
you'd be here and every Saturday there would be an

331
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,840
instructor there at the pool and they would completely come

332
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,840
out of character and be cool, and they would teach

333
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,559
you how to swim and it behooved you if you

334
00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:22,159
were struggling to be there every Saturday and learn how

335
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,080
to swim, And eventually I became a middle of the

336
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,919
pack swimmer once the technique set in and I was

337
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,799
fighting myself in the water. You know, it's just like

338
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,360
if you try to run sideways, you're not going to run.

339
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 3: Very far, very fast.

340
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 4: But if you learn the proper technique for anything, it

341
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:41,799
becomes pretty easy. So unlike a lot of selection processes

342
00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:44,879
I've been through, buds has the time because it's six

343
00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:47,159
months to really if you're a good guy, that'll work

344
00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:48,000
with you and they'll get you.

345
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,960
Speaker 3: Up to speed. And in my case it was the swimming.

346
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Speaker 4: So they do set you up for success, but you

347
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,519
do have to compartmentalize those failures and not let them

348
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:56,960
meet you up. And it does eat a lot of

349
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,600
people up because it gets in your.

350
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Speaker 2: Head, say it really helped a lot in your life.

351
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.

352
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:07,159
Speaker 4: I mean I still use that philosophy today. Like I said,

353
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,440
if something happens on the way to work, I'm able

354
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,639
to just put that in a little box, do what

355
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,240
I got to do at work, and then go home,

356
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,039
or or something happens at work, I don't have to

357
00:16:16,039 --> 00:16:19,039
bring that home and bring that nastiness into the home,

358
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,759
and I can compartmentalize it and.

359
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:22,279
Speaker 3: Think about it the appropriate time.

360
00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:27,279
Speaker 4: So Special Operations specifically because it's and they taught us

361
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,159
this too, it's ninety percent mental, ten percent physical. And

362
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,600
that's in any Special Operations unit. It's just such a

363
00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:39,759
vast variety of tasks you have to become an expert at,

364
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:42,399
you know, any special operations. Guys is kind of a

365
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:43,840
Swiss army, and I have kind of a jack of

366
00:16:43,879 --> 00:16:46,000
all trades. We're not just a screwdriver or.

367
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:46,639
Speaker 3: Just a hammer.

368
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 4: You have to learn a bunch of stuff. So there's

369
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,639
a level of intellect that's required. But more importantly, it's

370
00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,720
the psychological part of it. Being able to control your emotions,

371
00:16:55,799 --> 00:17:04,319
being able to maintain your professionalism in multiple challenging environments desert, jungle, snow.

372
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,279
Speaker 3: All that's a mental game.

373
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:09,400
Speaker 4: When you're extremely hot, extremely cold, the mission's impossible.

374
00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 3: You have to convince you so if you can do it.

375
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 4: So that's why they say it's ninety percent mental, ten

376
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,279
percent physical. And when they first told me that, I'm like,

377
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,240
there's no way, because Buds is brutal.

378
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,039
Speaker 3: I mean you're running with boats on your heads.

379
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 4: You got hell week, you're you know, log peet, you're

380
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,759
doing two mile time to open ocean swims and second

381
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,440
phase you do a five point five nautical mile swim.

382
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,240
Took me four hours and fifty seven minutes to do

383
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,000
for the four hours, almost five hours, four hours, fifty

384
00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:38,839
seven minutes, and it's just a complete there's no time requirement.

385
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 3: You just have to do it.

386
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 4: And of course it was in the wintertime and the

387
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,480
water was freezing and you're cramping up and you see

388
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,640
the pier down an imperial beach you have to swim around,

389
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000
and it's this tiny little blip on the horizon not

390
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:54,279
getting closer to you. Of Course, I'm convinced that there's

391
00:17:54,319 --> 00:17:56,680
like five hundred great white sharks around me at all time.

392
00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,839
So there's always this mental battle of you just have

393
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,240
to accept it and go for it, and like we've

394
00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:06,000
talked about, that really gives you some tools for later

395
00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:08,039
in life that you don't realize at the time. So

396
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,240
I just very blessed to buds in and of itself

397
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,079
is really a very pure selection process, and it.

398
00:18:16,519 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 3: Is mainly you versus yourself versus nature. There's not a

399
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,039
lot to the buds compound.

400
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 4: There's an obstacle course, there's some pull up bars, dip bars,

401
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:26,640
rope climb, and so when you get there your first

402
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,680
day and you're looking around, you're like, there's not a

403
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,960
lot to this place, Like, I mean, really, how hard

404
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,200
can this be? You know, they're trying to psych yourself

405
00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:38,480
up right the pregame Jenners, You're like, you know, whatever,

406
00:18:38,599 --> 00:18:41,599
I could do this, But then you realize it. It's

407
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,759
the soft sand, it's cold water, it's the long runs,

408
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:48,640
the boats on the heads. They just do this stuff forever,

409
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,319
for hours and hours, and that's when it shifts to

410
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,359
that mental piece, how long can I tolerate this? They

411
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,359
might have you do something and they will say we're

412
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,799
gonna do this until somebody quits. It could be just

413
00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:02,559
walking down the beach with the boats on your head.

414
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:05,599
There's no time limits. We're gonna do this until somebody quits.

415
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,240
And eventually somebody does quit. So it's that that they

416
00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:12,680
want to see somebody break mentally, how that affects you?

417
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,599
Speaker 2: Well, you saw somebody break, does they are like, uh,

418
00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:18,880
does it give you? Like, oh, jeez, he broke. I

419
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,519
can't believe he broke or something like that.

420
00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 3: No, it motivates you. You know, uh, day one of buds.

421
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,279
Speaker 4: They line you up in a heightline from tallis to shortest,

422
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,799
and I remember, I've always been kind of a middle

423
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:29,920
of the road guy, you know.

424
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,519
Speaker 3: I think at that time I was six.

425
00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:33,799
Speaker 4: Foot probably one seventy five point eight, so just kind

426
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:36,359
of your average build dude. But there are some bodybuilder

427
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:38,759
Towartzenegger looking dudes and you're.

428
00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:40,319
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, look at that dude. He's going

429
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,160
to crush it.

430
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 4: He's the first guy to quit because he can't manipulate

431
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,519
his body weight on the obstacle course. He can't run,

432
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:49,240
he can't swim, he's just a big powerlifter dude. Or

433
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,599
so when you see those bigger guys quit, you're like,

434
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:52,960
it kind of motivates you.

435
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,559
Speaker 3: It gives you energy, Like that guy looked like he

436
00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:56,440
would fucking.

437
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,279
Speaker 4: Take your lunch money. But he's the first one to quit.

438
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,279
Like holy shit. Pretty soon it's a bunch.

439
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,559
Speaker 3: Of little wiry guys that are left. You're like, damn,

440
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,240
look at us.

441
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 4: Then we're still So anytime I heard the bell ring,

442
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,200
it motivated.

443
00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:11,759
Speaker 3: Me in that I'm still here now. It was sad.

444
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 4: They also teach you don't make friends with people right

445
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,920
away because if your friend quits, you're likely to follow.

446
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,119
So there's a little a little bit of stand offficseness

447
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,200
at first. Obviously you bond with your boat crew a

448
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,200
little bit. But if someone in your boat who quits

449
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,119
and you're real close with that guy, maybe your roommates,

450
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,599
maybe your carpool, maybe you knew each other before, that

451
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,359
has a huge effect. If your battle buddy quits, you're

452
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,440
like damn, because you really relied on them and their energy.

453
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:42,039
And so it's it's tricky. You got to the further

454
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,039
along you go, the smaller and closer the class gets,

455
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,440
you know, second third phase. Then you're just this little

456
00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:50,160
little band of pirates and there's nothing they can do

457
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,559
to you, and and you you're kind of safe. But

458
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,240
first phase is we started with one hundred and seventy four.

459
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,839
We graduated thirty nine originals. Just to give you an

460
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,400
idea of how many people do spirit, it's about eighty

461
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,000
percent attrition rate seventy to eighty percent historically, So that's

462
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:08,559
a lot of your friends.

463
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 3: They're gonna go away. So and that's that's fairly common.

464
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,839
Speaker 4: If you look across the the specops selection attrition rate.

465
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,880
Whether it's SAS or Green Beret or Delta, they all

466
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,640
have very high attrition rates and it's mainly due to

467
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,680
that that formula of ninety percent mental ten percent physical.

468
00:21:25,759 --> 00:21:29,079
Speaker 3: People just mentally can't wrap their brains around it.

469
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 4: So if you just kind of focus on the task

470
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,000
and at hand, it's right in front of you, accomplish it.

471
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:35,839
Speaker 3: Then the next one, the next.

472
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 4: One, you're just gonna trudge along, and before you know it,

473
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,480
you're gonna pick your head up and you're a week

474
00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:41,440
away from graduation.

475
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,079
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, holy shit, I can't believe that

476
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:45,000
was six months.

477
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:48,319
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff. Again, we're talking to Clark and postaal I

478
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,240
m p A S t A t O. You can

479
00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:52,599
find them a good vibes with Clark and Postyle and

480
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,559
Ryan G. Can listen to that podcast. Clark, really amazing stuff.

481
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,359
Can you share whether it's a story of whatever you

482
00:22:01,599 --> 00:22:03,759
mission or you went out that you were able to

483
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:06,119
benefit from your training at BUDS. I'm sure there's plenty

484
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:06,960
of them.

485
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 4: You stand out, Yeah, no, absolutely, you know, not every

486
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,160
mission is successful or happy. We had a situation in

487
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,720
the Philippines in two thousands that we were involved in

488
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,519
really in a support role for a Seal Team one

489
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:23,440
and some Green Berets.

490
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,759
Speaker 3: There was a hostage situation.

491
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 4: The ABUF had kidnapped some Western hostages and we had

492
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,880
basically a task force trying to sort.

493
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: It all out.

494
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 4: And I tell you, we never found them, and so

495
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,160
it was really hard psychologically. I mean, it's almost it's

496
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,920
a needle in a haystack. I don't know if you're

497
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,079
familiar with the geography of the Philippines, but there are

498
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,279
just tons of islands that are part of this.

499
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: Did you go to mind the now, No, we're actually

500
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,519
based out of a Cubic not a longapup.

501
00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 4: We're based out of a longa pot of a hotel there,

502
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:59,440
and so we linked up with our Filipino counterparts and

503
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:01,200
you know, we trained up a little bit. What was

504
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,400
funny is we were a Winter Warfare Team win a

505
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,160
warfare platoon and we were poised out of Okinawa really

506
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,119
to respond to anything.

507
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:10,799
Speaker 3: That might happen in North Korea, China, Russia.

508
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,079
Speaker 4: So we were a Winter team, Mountain Warfare Team, Team

509
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,319
Wons jungle Dudes, but they were just overwhelmed and so

510
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,079
we were in the area. We were out of Oki

511
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,960
and I think we're actually training in Thailand at the time,

512
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,720
and they flew us in.

513
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,759
Speaker 3: I remember telling my chief like, what are we doing

514
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:27,480
in the jungle?

515
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: Man, Like, we don't even have the right camouflage, and

516
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:32,880
he was kind of getting snippety with me, and I'm like,

517
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:35,200
one last question, Chief, So we're not going to need

518
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,039
our snow shoes, is what you're saying, Like for us

519
00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:42,240
to go into the jungle, it was. It was weird

520
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,400
because I've never been exposed to.

521
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,279
Speaker 3: It before and now we're just thrown into it.

522
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 4: And again we're with our Filipino counterparts and they're trying

523
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,759
to spin us up on jungle warfare, and they put

524
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:55,519
us through ambush courses and we died every time simulated.

525
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 3: Of course, you know.

526
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:58,279
Speaker 4: And these little booby traps they set and you realize,

527
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,160
oh my god, a crazy place and at night there

528
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,519
are all these crazy noises and shit, and we didn't

529
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:08,279
know is that or is that like a tiger about

530
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:08,640
to eat me?

531
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,519
Speaker 3: Or is it punky that's gonna steal my shit? It was,

532
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:17,119
it was. It stands out because it's it was a failure.

533
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,079
Speaker 4: You know, we never located, you know, our target, no

534
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,799
fault to our own geographies just against you. But it

535
00:24:24,839 --> 00:24:28,079
was very surreal, It was very weird. I felt very

536
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,160
vulnerable being out there in the jungle. Obviously, the bad

537
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,319
guys it's their backyard and they know it very well.

538
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,680
Here we are not even trained up in this type

539
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,599
of warfare, and so it kind of showed me the

540
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,599
reality of the battlefield.

541
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 2: Did you get more of an appreciation for the Vietnam veterans?

542
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,799
Speaker 4: Well, I thought about that a lot. I thought about,

543
00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:49,759
this is a very tough environment to fight in, and

544
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:51,440
I'm sure they felt the same way. They had no

545
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,279
idea where they were at. It was very difficult to navigate.

546
00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:57,359
You couldn't see the stars. You can't use GPS, not

547
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,079
that they had GPS, but our GPS was ineffective. We

548
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,559
had to do map and compass. We had to rotate

549
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:04,559
pointment out because you had to keep slashing through the

550
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,480
you know, the vines and the canopy and all that. So,

551
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:09,279
I mean, you were moving maybe a mile a day,

552
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,440
and you were just completely I had a bad rash

553
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,920
down my back because the moisture and the mosquitoes, and

554
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,039
you're worried about these snakes. You know, they say, oh

555
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:21,400
if you're bit by one of these, You'll last about

556
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,519
thirty seconds and all this shit going through your head.

557
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 3: I wasn't even.

558
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 4: Worried about the bad guys. I was just thought, Oh,

559
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,319
the spider's going to kill me. The snake is going

560
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:28,799
to kill me.

561
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,839
Speaker 3: They got bears and tigers.

562
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, what else is I mean that our predators

563
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,880
in these jungles, these you know, the from the movie Predators,

564
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,359
that one of them, Dude's gonna show up.

565
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,599
Speaker 2: You know, That's exactly what I was thinking.

566
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 4: To be honest, I was overwhelmed because that was the

567
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,519
first time, well not necessarily, I was said that the

568
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:48,400
first time I was put in a real world environment.

569
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,400
In ninety six, we did some ship takedowns in the Gulf,

570
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,839
but that was mainly administrative. We were enforcing UN sanctions

571
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,319
against Iraq, so it was different. I felt a lot

572
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,640
more comfortable climbing up the last out of a ship

573
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,599
and you know, taking down the crew.

574
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:04,559
Speaker 3: In the jungle.

575
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: I felt very, very scared, very vulnerable, way out of

576
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,079
my element, and so for me that it just stands

577
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:13,319
out because that was very pivotal as far as UH

578
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,200
maturing as an operator as a shooter, because you realize, damn,

579
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,359
there's a lot of things that are out of your control,

580
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,640
and not every mission is a success, you know, like

581
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,640
this one on paper is a failure, even though we

582
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,279
did our best.

583
00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:27,559
Speaker 3: I mean, we were just pounding away.

584
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,079
Speaker 4: We'd hit a different island every day, patrol through it,

585
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,599
lay up at night, patrol around the next day, and

586
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:36,480
then usually we would xpill and H. Yeah, it was

587
00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:38,519
it was. It was a tough one to walk away from,

588
00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:41,640
but I'm glad. Like we talked about before, you have

589
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,359
to kind of compartmentalize your failures. Obviously we had debriefs

590
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,680
and and uh again it.

591
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: Really was no fault of our own. There was just

592
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:50,319
too much area to cover.

593
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,519
Speaker 4: All you can do is pick an island, hit it

594
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,039
for a day or two, and then go back and reset.

595
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,640
So it was, uh, that was my first, my first

596
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,680
real where the rubber meets the road type moment. Obviously,

597
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,839
things changed after nine to eleven and I ended up

598
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,319
bouncing around the Middle East quite a bit. I got

599
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,200
nine rotations in and out of the Middle East, and

600
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,880
so I saw the evolution of what was going on,

601
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,720
the evolution of the battlefield, and did different ao and

602
00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:22,759
things like that. So I felt very lucky to kind

603
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:25,039
of ride that wave. In the years, I did some

604
00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:27,000
pre nine to eleven stuff and then post nine to

605
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,160
eleven stuff, and so I saw dramatically how the mission

606
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,960
statement changed, how the tactics changed, the weapons changed. Our

607
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,519
state of mind as a country and as a fighting

608
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,440
force is very different during peacetime versus wartime. Not that

609
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,119
peacetime really exists in special operations. I mean, you can

610
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,279
look at the Blackhawk down incident. That's during quote unquote peacetime.

611
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,640
Peacetime is probably the best time to be in special

612
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,759
operations because then you're doing the sneaky peaky ninja shit right,

613
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,480
because you're your places, you're well, you're in places you

614
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:01,039
shouldn't be. There's a lot of eyes on type missions,

615
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:04,640
a lot of reconnaissance type missions. One of our missions

616
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,839
we got in that same deployment was to identify a

617
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,559
target on this island. So we had a recon team

618
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,039
free fall in and then pose as tourists, literally throwing

619
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,200
on the Hawaiian shirt shorts and flip flops and just

620
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,079
kind of cruising around this island until they located somebody.

621
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,400
And then we passed off that intel to the appropriate

622
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,039
individuals and so off like that is kind of how

623
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:26,279
I envisioned special operations, you know what I mean.

624
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 3: When a war kicks off, you kind of become a

625
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:31,519
navy ranger.

626
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,519
Speaker 4: Everybody armors up, everyone hops in an armored vehicle. You

627
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:37,519
go smash down doors and snatch up bad guys. To

628
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:40,039
be honest, everyone kind of has the same mission. You're

629
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:45,440
going after high value targets. During this peacetime era, there

630
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:47,559
was a lot of creativity. There was a lot of

631
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:50,839
indigenous work where you went in and blended in with people,

632
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,559
and a lot of you might you know, recon the

633
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:56,599
beaches of North Korea to see if any of their

634
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,359
fortifications have moved, or to see, hey if we have

635
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,079
to land marines, or there are a bunch of rocks

636
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,400
in the way. So you got to do a lot

637
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,960
of digital imagery. And I found that stuff. It's not

638
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:11,240
the cool, sexy gunfighting stuff, but that's the stuff that

639
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,960
raises the hair in the back of your necks when

640
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,119
you're creeping around a place you shouldn't be and you know,

641
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,599
if you get compromise, you're screwed, and they'll even deny

642
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,240
that you were there.

643
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: That type of stuff.

644
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,319
Speaker 4: So that was kind of the pre nine eleven vibe

645
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:25,680
was really like I said, you're sneaking through someone's backyard

646
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,559
and you hope you don't get snatched up. That to

647
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,440
me how I envisioned Special Operations more so, and throwing

648
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,599
on your body armor, rolling out in the vehicle.

649
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: And kicking down the door.

650
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 4: I mean, that's everyone kind of blended into one type

651
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,799
of operator overseas as the war went on throughout the

652
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:47,759
mid two thousand, so I saw that shift, probably because

653
00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:50,240
I was brought into the community pre nine eleven. I

654
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:52,480
always kind of missed those days, and I don't know

655
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,680
if they're back now with the young operators out in

656
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,200
the field. I think a lot of it is more

657
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,920
of that indigenous type stuff, more of the stuff like

658
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,680
we were doing in the Philippines, trying to look for hostages,

659
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:06,759
low level stuff that doesn't make the news. Hopefully the

660
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,279
community has gotten back to that stuff, because I think

661
00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:13,279
that's really the bread and butter of what Special Operations is,

662
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:16,799
very small surgical stuff that nobody knows about, as opposed

663
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:20,079
to you're basically doing the stuff that Marine infantry guys

664
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:23,279
should be doing, smashing down doors and snatching people out.

665
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: Let The infantry guys do that stuff.

666
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:30,079
Speaker 2: That's fascinating, fascinating take on it, And you're right, it's

667
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:31,640
one of the things. People don't get to hear those

668
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,839
stories about the seals or the Berets and all the

669
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:36,839
stuff that they're doing, or extractions or anything of that nature.

670
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,200
They just don't hear it. They see a movie or

671
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,559
two then that we'll talk about that a little bit.

672
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,039
That changes perspective. I guess my other question would be

673
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,519
you also worked as a military contractor, so I'm sure

674
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:50,319
you can't say much about that, but was a different

675
00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:54,599
because you're not operating necessarily under the military per se.

676
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,519
Now you're a private military contractor. Who knows who your

677
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,519
boss is. But we won't get into that either, But

678
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:01,920
how different is that for you?

679
00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:09,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very different, and it was a very strange.

680
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 4: I got into that in two thousand and three, so

681
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,160
that was really sort of the infancy of it. There

682
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,359
were a couple guys already on the ground that set

683
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,160
it up, but we were really the first wave of

684
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,559
sled dogs to come in and it was very weird.

685
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,039
Speaker 3: When I heard about it, I was very suspicious of it.

686
00:31:28,039 --> 00:31:30,359
Speaker 4: It sounded like some Soldier of Fortune type shit, like

687
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,480
what are we doing And how much are they paying?

688
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:34,079
Speaker 3: Like, that's weird.

689
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:35,759
Speaker 4: They're going to pay you that much, it must be

690
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,039
dangerous if they're gonna pay you.

691
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,039
Speaker 3: You know, more than you were making as an E five.

692
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,519
So I was very suspicious of it.

693
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:44,759
Speaker 4: But I had some buddies that were in it and

694
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,240
assured me that as long as you got with the

695
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:48,559
right group of.

696
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:50,279
Speaker 3: Guys, you were good to go. But it was very weird.

697
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,839
It was very mysterious because.

698
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,119
Speaker 4: The book hadn't been written, the rules haven't been written yet,

699
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,279
a lot of these government agencies figured out that their

700
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:05,279
own full time employees have rules, but as a contract employee,

701
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,440
you are technically a civilian. You don't have to abide

702
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,039
by any of those rules. Nothing applies to a civilian.

703
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:12,640
Not that you didn't have a conviction, not the Uniform

704
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,680
Code of Military Justice. Nothing applies to a civilian. So technically,

705
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,359
as a civilian, you could do things that their own

706
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,519
full time people couldn't do. So basically what would happen

707
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:27,079
is you would have one full time guy it was

708
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,599
kind of your boss, and then you contractors would do

709
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,279
his bidding. And it was very much known to you

710
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,559
that if you ever got snatched up. They would just

711
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,240
straight up deny you, like, we don't know who this

712
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:41,920
guy is. He's a civilian, he has no affiliation with

713
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:44,079
US government. So you knew there was a weird You

714
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,920
knew you were a fall guy if something went bad.

715
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,359
In fact, when I was in Afghanistan, there was a

716
00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,400
Green Beret dude who was a contractor who got snatched

717
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,720
up supplying weapons to one of our friendlies, but the

718
00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:01,400
State Department hung them out to Part of our mission

719
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,799
was to check on him in prison. I think he

720
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,559
got like a seven year prison term out of it

721
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:07,200
for gun running in Afghanistan and he had to serve

722
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:10,559
it in a local prison. The State Department basically denied

723
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,400
his existence. So part of our mission was once a

724
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,240
month we would go with USA and make sure he

725
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,240
wasn't being tortured or abused or starved and things like that.

726
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:20,880
And he was happy as a pig of money. He said,

727
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,039
when I get out of here, I'm writing a book.

728
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:23,640
I'm gonna be a millionaire. So I'll just sit here

729
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,519
for seven years.

730
00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: And think about it, you know.

731
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 4: And he was always happy to see us, to see

732
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,119
your brother, and a really cool dude. But it showed

733
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,880
me as a contractor, if the wrong people catch you

734
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,799
doing something, the government will just leave you out to

735
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,640
drive real quick.

736
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,079
Speaker 3: So in the military, you.

737
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,599
Speaker 4: Know you're a valuable asset, whether you're a seal of

738
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,599
Greenberry whoever. They have spent millions of dollars to train you.

739
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:49,920
You're very valuable to them. Where as a contractor, they

740
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,319
didn't spend shit to train you. They might have put

741
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:54,880
you through an evaluation course, a two three weeks selection

742
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,720
to make sure you can still shoot in PTE you're

743
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,000
not an old has been, but that's it. They don't

744
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:00,799
have to spend the millions of dollars in years and

745
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,039
years to train you. They're just going to get you

746
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:05,359
in the field and have you do their their bidding,

747
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:10,000
oftentimes things they can't do. So a lot of it's

748
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,159
reconnaissance work, a lot of it's intel driven, a lot

749
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:17,760
of it is diplomatic security, protecting important people in dangerous places.

750
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:21,440
Later on in Iraq, I got into the training side

751
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,039
of things with the Department of Defense, so we were

752
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:30,400
probably accidentally created isis looking back on it, A lot

753
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,400
of our students our motto was training tomorrow's terrorists today,

754
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,239
because who are these guys they're not vetted, and so

755
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,280
a lot of these Iraqis we were teaching I you know,

756
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,400
it was it was tough, and I think the US

757
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,280
has a history of that.

758
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 3: We basically will train our future enemies.

759
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 4: For example, Osama bin Laden was CIA trained and funded

760
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,400
to fight the Russians in the eighties and he ended

761
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,639
up becoming Yeah, I mean that became out CADA, and

762
00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:03,920
so a similar thing happened in Iraq. Here we're teaching

763
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,280
these guys sniper initiated assault CQB, explosive preaching. All of

764
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,159
our tricks are now out there in their community. For example,

765
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:15,199
when we taught them how to long run, we taught

766
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:19,519
them sniper stuff. Sniper attacks on US troops skyrocketed throughout

767
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:24,440
Baghdad almost immediately after we put on that long range course.

768
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 3: So what do you think these students are doing.

769
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,159
Speaker 4: They're going back to their villages and they're teaching this

770
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,480
skill set to you know, the people out there, the

771
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:34,440
insurgents or the locals that are fighting against US. So

772
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,599
I just I've seen that repeat throughout history. Why we

773
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:41,400
continue to do that. Eventually ended up leaving that mission

774
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,320
after a couple of rotations out there, because I just

775
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,920
I didn't agree with it. I just thought, damn, we're

776
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,440
teaching these guys pretty much our entire playbook. I mean,

777
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,119
I can't think of anything that we haven't put them

778
00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:51,840
through in a course.

779
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: So it's just.

780
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that that's a slippery slope with contracting.

781
00:35:58,840 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 3: Is you find yourself.

782
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,159
Speaker 4: For example, when I was active duty and we were

783
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:04,840
training the Tie Seals, I was allowed to teach them

784
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,599
shotgun breaching, but I wasn't allowed to teach them anything

785
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:10,599
through the doorway, no CQB, not how to take a room,

786
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:12,519
none of that. And I'm like, these are Tie guys, Like,

787
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:15,960
no one's mad at Tie dudes. Fast forward, as a contractor,

788
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,000
I'm teaching iraqis how to blow up shit, CEQB, all

789
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:24,159
of it, motivate operations, attack on, motivated, attack on principal,

790
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,719
defensive measures, defensive driving, basically our whole playbook. But we

791
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,360
weren't even allowed to teach the Seals more than shotgun breaching.

792
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,400
So active duty, there's a lot of rules and regulations

793
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,320
in place. As a contractor, quite honestly, it's the wild West.

794
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:43,599
You could do anti piracy shit off the horn of Africa,

795
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,280
a lot of intel driven stuff. So it's It always

796
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,119
reminds me of you open a door, you walk in

797
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:55,000
a room, and across the room there's three more doors.

798
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,199
So you pick a door, you walk through it, there's

799
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:01,360
another room with three more doors. It's just like, yeah,

800
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,639
you just it's a twilight zone. It spends how deep

801
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:06,119
you want to go with it. So for me, that

802
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,760
was a turn off. I missed sort of the nobility

803
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,320
of the active duty days. You know, you are held

804
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,639
to a standard, you are monitored, you are held to

805
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:19,639
an ethos or a code. If you go haywire, you

806
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:22,039
could be charged with war crimes and stuff. Whereas a

807
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:26,559
contractor in the early days, if you did something squirrely,

808
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,599
they would just send you to another country. They would

809
00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:31,559
just get rid of you. And I thought, that's bizarre,

810
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,639
Like there's no repercussions. For there were stories I never

811
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:36,800
witnessed it with my own eyes, but there were stories

812
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,039
of a triple canopy guy in Iraq that was going

813
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:42,199
to the airport to fly out and he said, oh,

814
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:43,840
I haven't got a kill yet, pull over and he

815
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,760
just shot up a car driving by and then went

816
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,039
to the airport and flew out. So stuff like that,

817
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,000
You're like, what is that dude, that's chicken shit, you know,

818
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:57,960
that's that's contracting is this big gray area. When I

819
00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:00,639
came in, you had to either be sealed, delta SF

820
00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:04,280
that was it. But unfortunately they tapped that resource and

821
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,159
so then they opened it up to this and opened

822
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:10,199
it up to that, and then Blackwater flooded Iraq with

823
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,000
thousands of dudes. So now anybody who is a security

824
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,920
guard for half a day is running around Iraq with

825
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,880
an AR doing weird shit. So contracting got watered down

826
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,639
very very quickly, and in my opinion, became a big problem.

827
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 3: Now. Being special operations guys.

828
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 4: You always knew where your guys were at, so you

829
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:30,599
knew which detail to avoid, or hey, these guys have

830
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:33,880
this going on over here. It's diplomatic security, or it's

831
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,559
a training gig or intel. So we we always clicked

832
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:40,400
up and had it. I was always on good teams.

833
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:41,519
Nothing squirrely happened.

834
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 3: It was all sas dudes, Delta dudes, sealed dudes.

835
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 4: But you could get wrapped up on a detail that

836
00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:51,039
just had these shit bags doing really bizarre stuff. Like

837
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,960
you know, basically, as a contractor, you're supposed to be

838
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:57,719
a defensive mechanism.

839
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,119
Speaker 3: You're not supposed to be offensive. It's the active duty guys.

840
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 4: What we're doing in theory is freeing up all their

841
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:07,679
shit so they can go do big boy stuff so

842
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,000
that they don't have to train locals. They don't have

843
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,400
to provide security for diplomats or generals or admirals.

844
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,199
Speaker 3: We're doing all of that stuff. We're not out there

845
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,119
looking for a fight.

846
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 4: Oftentimes we got ambushed and we would we call it

847
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,840
the death blossom. We would give them the hornet's nest

848
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,559
and get off the X. We're not there to fight.

849
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,239
That's the difference.

850
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: Now.

851
00:39:26,559 --> 00:39:29,199
Speaker 4: Sometimes if your vehicle's disabled, you might have to dismount,

852
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,719
take down a building, wait for big army to roll

853
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,440
in and save your butt. But the mission statement's very different,

854
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:38,119
and some contractors didn't get that, Like, bro, you're not

855
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:40,920
an offense. It's not your job to light this car

856
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,320
up for no reason or you know it just there's

857
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,159
some gray area with contracting, and so eventually that's why

858
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:51,000
I left. In addition, I realized I had been away

859
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:54,039
from home for eleven years and my toddlers were now teenagers.

860
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: That was an.

861
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,519
Speaker 4: Epiphany moment because you get tunnel visions.

862
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 3: And like they taught us at Budds, you're so folks.

863
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:03,639
Speaker 4: Just on the task in hand, you can oftentimes forget

864
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:06,159
about things back home because you're halfway around the world.

865
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,280
This is before video chats and all that stuff. So

866
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,440
it was letters. Eventually, I think there was a couple

867
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,800
Skype was coming online and what's another one I used

868
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,039
to use. But anyway, communication was very limited, so your

869
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:23,280
family wasn't necessarily on your mind all the time. It

870
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,239
was very easy to get wrapped up in the culture

871
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,159
of the men, the mission, all that type of crap.

872
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,800
So for me, I saw contracting slipping and I realized,

873
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,679
holy shit, my kids are teenagers.

874
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: You know this this mess is now someone else's problem.

875
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,320
I got to get back home.

876
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 4: My conundrum was what am I going to do when

877
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,639
I get back to the States. You know, I've been

878
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,480
running a gun and for you know, my first deployment

879
00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:51,880
was ninety six. Here I am seven in Iraq, not

880
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:54,000
knowing any other way of life, and it's a very

881
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:55,400
tough transition for people.

882
00:40:57,519 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 2: Amazing, I mean, you gave me so much insight into

883
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:02,119
all the different worlds, and I'm sure everybody out there

884
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,320
has learned so much I know, we got about about

885
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,639
ten minutes left. Got to bring it back, Clark, got

886
00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:12,280
to bring it back. We learned so much from you.

887
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,280
I'm trying to see which questions I want to start

888
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,119
wrapping up this interview with. I guess one would be

889
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,239
the Phoenix Police Department. I've talked to special forces who've

890
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,280
worked in police as a police officer, and thank you

891
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,840
again for both services as well, military and law enforcement.

892
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 3: Thank you.

893
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: We're definitely indebted to you for that. How different is it,

894
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,320
all of a sudden games change? You can't do things

895
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,039
like you can't. You can't just draw your weapon and

896
00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:42,000
fire at certain individuals anymore, even though it may be

897
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,679
a threat to you. How different was that?

898
00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:49,519
Speaker 3: It was an eye opener. I had some buddies that

899
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:50,679
were contracting that were.

900
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 4: Cops, some swat dudes, one of them from Chicago, and

901
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,199
so he recommended, Hey, if you're going to be a cop,

902
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,679
go to a big city because it's busy and they

903
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,119
want kind of crazier dudes. Not some small town in Nebraska.

904
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:02,840
They don't need an ex seal there. They need you

905
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,400
in you know, Chicago, Detroit, PI, Phoenix. My brother was

906
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,000
living there. I applied for them to answer your question.

907
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:16,760
The academy, to me, was amazing because I realized how

908
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,960
smart cops have to be in a life and death situation. Okay,

909
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,559
you're a spec ops guy overseas. You perceive a threat,

910
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:24,960
you neutralize it, no questions ask no one gives a shit.

911
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,039
For example, in Iraq, if we got in a gunfight,

912
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,760
we would type up what we call a foxtrot report.

913
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,000
It was basically three sentences. We email it to our

914
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:34,679
team leader just in case state department or the Prime

915
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:36,800
Minister wanted to inquire what happened.

916
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,039
Speaker 3: Otherwise that was it.

917
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 4: Now, as a cop, if you shoot somebody, it's way

918
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,039
more than a three sentence email to your boss, which

919
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,079
I did get an officer involved shooting. We can talk

920
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:50,599
about that the other time. But in the academy, I realized,

921
00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:55,039
holy shit, when a cop is faced with a threat,

922
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,599
they have to use that use of force continuum and

923
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:00,800
they have to be very accurate, very quickly with it.

924
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:03,239
Am I using verbal skills to de escalate? Do I

925
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,800
gotta go hands on? Do I have to go to

926
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,480
the tool belt? And ultimately do I have to use

927
00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:10,599
my firearm? And if I present my firearm, I better

928
00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:14,079
be prepared to use it. So our academy, it was

929
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:18,119
a multi jurisdictional academy called the Leah, and they were

930
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,599
very good at their scenarios and the main firearms and

931
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:23,239
tactical guy really he liked me.

932
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: He knew my background, and he.

933
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,079
Speaker 4: Liked to see how I reacted to these scenarios. And

934
00:43:28,159 --> 00:43:30,159
one thing he said early on was Clark, you can't

935
00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:32,079
solve every scenario with your handgun.

936
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:33,199
Speaker 3: Dude.

937
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 4: All right. There was some rewiring, for sure, but they

938
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,679
did a great job at doing that, and I think

939
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,960
it was interesting for them to watch. I think I

940
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:47,280
was the first person of a special operations background that

941
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,599
had been through the academy while that staff.

942
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: Was in charge.

943
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's been other guys that had gone through,

944
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,960
but while that cadre was in charge. So they were

945
00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:55,840
very interesting to see how I would react to these

946
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,480
tactical scenarios. And I really had to learn to the

947
00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:02,000
dial it back and rewire it. So they did a

948
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,880
good job. By the time I got to the street,

949
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:08,280
I felt very comfortable with what's my mission statement as

950
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,239
a cop. Obviously it's not as an operator or even

951
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:15,559
a protection specialist contracting, which you're still allowed to be

952
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:17,880
very violent, very fast. If someone's trying to attack the

953
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,599
first lady, yes you're allowed to fuck.

954
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:20,599
Speaker 3: Them up very violently.

955
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,079
Speaker 4: As a cop, you see two people fistfighting in a

956
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:27,880
parking lot, and even if they come at you throwing punches,

957
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,519
that doesn't mean you can shoot them. You have to

958
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,400
really adjust your response. And so I credit that.

959
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 3: To really good training at the academy.

960
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,519
Speaker 4: I think it was about four months long, and so

961
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,719
they did a real good job. But I also liked

962
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,719
that I still had a little bag of seal tricks

963
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,800
in my back pocket that if shit did get violent,

964
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:48,480
I could, you know, break glass in time of war.

965
00:44:48,559 --> 00:44:51,360
And my squad mates appreciated that. And I also shared

966
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,519
a lot of knowledge with my squad mates. If we

967
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:56,199
had a double squad day, I would tell my sergeant, Hey,

968
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:57,280
there's an abandoned house.

969
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: Let's do some TQB runs, let's do some room clearing.

970
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:03,039
Speaker 4: And so our squad was able to do additional training

971
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:05,639
and get more comfortable with each other and movement and stuff.

972
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,840
And so I think my background benefited my situation with

973
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:11,639
Phoenix for sure.

974
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely amazing stuff on that one. Again, folks, Good Vibes

975
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,880
dot com. So we can find more information good Vibes

976
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,239
dudes dot com. Good Vibes dudes dot com. You can

977
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,360
find more information about Clark. I guess in our last

978
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,199
few minutes. I didn't want to miss this part either.

979
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,280
There's been I guess more recently. I think maybe in

980
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,519
the last decade, and I haven't actually even looked because

981
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,239
I'm not a huge movie guy anymore. But there's been

982
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:40,199
some Navy Seal movies out there. I think I think

983
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:42,800
they're classifying the Navy Seal movies. Whether or not they are,

984
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,760
I don't know. But Zero Dark thirty, I think thirteen

985
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,719
hours MM. Can't look more for the older ones, I

986
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:53,920
can't remember.

987
00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: My own Survivor Active Valid was one under Yeah. Yeah, yes,

988
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:03,360
Steven Sagal Casey Rye Beckett.

989
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,039
Speaker 2: That's about It's all this thing is, You're gonna get.

990
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's what I was hoping.

991
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: What's your take on those type of movies. Do you

992
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,960
think it hurts or helps or it's just so far

993
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:19,239
fetch it doesn't even matter.

994
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it does.

995
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember seeing the Charlie Sheen movie Navy Seals,

996
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,000
and even as a kid, I'm like, I just enjoyed

997
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:28,519
it for the entertainment value.

998
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 3: The thing that I wish they would capture.

999
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 4: And I will admit I've never seen the TV series

1000
00:46:34,039 --> 00:46:36,079
Seal Team, which my mom watches. That a lot of

1001
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:38,480
people love it, and I think they try to hit

1002
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:42,000
it on more of a personal note, and I think

1003
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:44,039
it's a it's a good way to finish our conversation.

1004
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,679
Is any Seal movie that I've seen. They make the

1005
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,760
Seal seem too militant, too marine corpus, if you will.

1006
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,559
What I learned in special operations across the board and

1007
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:00,000
even in naval special warfare, the personalities of these due

1008
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,679
it's the funniest people I've ever met in my life.

1009
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,239
Like just almost like a violent Robin Williams. I mean,

1010
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,360
these people are hilarious. The personalities, even the way we

1011
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,960
talk with each other. There's really no difference between a

1012
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,719
Seal officer and a Sealing listed guy. If we're doing

1013
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,719
our thing, it's first name basis, like, it's very We're

1014
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,960
the most non military military unit out there. It's very casual.

1015
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,119
Yeah yeah, no, it's like hey dude, what's up?

1016
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 3: Bro?

1017
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,039
Speaker 4: Yeah dude, you know, it's just it's they don't capture

1018
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:33,239
that in the movies, they make.

1019
00:47:33,159 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 3: It seem too militant, too.

1020
00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 4: Yes sir, no, sir, hey go over there and do this,

1021
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:39,800
and bark park Park Park. That's not how the community is.

1022
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,639
It's it's a very laid back community. And other special

1023
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:47,639
operations are very similar, maybe not quite as laid back

1024
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:50,199
as they called my team a Seal Team five.

1025
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 3: They call it Surf Team five because we were so

1026
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,800
laid back and we would surfer pt.

1027
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 4: I wish the movies would capture that camaraderie, that bonding.

1028
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:05,400
They've tried to couple times. But we are very very human.

1029
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,280
A lot of seals specifically, and Special operations in general,

1030
00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:12,800
very intelligent. They seem to portray us as kind of

1031
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,199
the Schwarzenegger dumb, muscle bound, you know, kill them all.

1032
00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: Type people, very very capable.

1033
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 4: In the Teddy Bear world, A lot of my buddies,

1034
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,960
for example, when I was going through my first divorce,

1035
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,199
would kick in my door with bags of groceries and say, hey,

1036
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,000
I know you're hurting, so I picked up some groceries

1037
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,039
for you. Like there's really a hoggy Bear side to

1038
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:36,679
the community. We love each other. We always said I

1039
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,800
know more about you than your mother does because you

1040
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,280
spend so much time training together, You help each other

1041
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,079
through divorces, you help each other through all kinds of

1042
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:50,079
scenarios on and off the battlefield. It's really this bond

1043
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:52,320
that I wish they would capture. I don't know if

1044
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,280
you it's like capturing lightning in a bottle. I don't

1045
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,039
know if you can do it. But I have not

1046
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:59,400
seen that in a movie. All the tactics and the gunfights,

1047
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,920
and that's just it's really the behind the scenes, how

1048
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,000
we take care of each other through the ups and downs,

1049
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:10,320
the sense of humor, the pranks, the hazings. I've caught

1050
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,519
little snippets of it in these different movies, but it's

1051
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:16,679
just I just felt like I was at a stand

1052
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,800
up comedy show the whole time. These guys are amazing, intelligent,

1053
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,000
funny people, and so I wish Hollywood would would get

1054
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:23,440
that right.

1055
00:49:24,159 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 2: And the only thing I've ever seen close to that would

1056
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,920
be maybe Apocalypse Now had a little bit, but you know,

1057
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,679
that was kind of carried off a little too far

1058
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,440
too But yeah, yeah, Jarhead did okay with some of that.

1059
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: I saw the first one. I think they did pretty good.

1060
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I did like Blackhawk down. The one thing

1061
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,800
they got well was they got the fog of battle.

1062
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:47,559
Remember when the dudes were lost, Hey are the Humpies

1063
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:49,039
coming to us? And we're supposed to go to the

1064
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:50,960
Humpies and they're kind of running around lost in a

1065
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,000
little village looking for the motorcade and yeah, and how

1066
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:56,800
loud the gun was and the dude couldn't hear, Like

1067
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,239
all that stuff in the eighties movies, everything had like

1068
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,239
little silencers and suppressors and everything. It's like pre picture

1069
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,880
perfect coming out of the repel from the ceiling and

1070
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,519
kill everybody, you know, and then you know, for real,

1071
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:12,559
you're just running around lost, tripping on ship, you lost

1072
00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:15,199
this and that and you know. So I sometimes they

1073
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,920
get certain aspects of it correctly. But again, if they

1074
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,920
can capture the personality of Special Operations guys, I think

1075
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:25,880
they would have a hit movie on themselves, because I.

1076
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 3: Think people want to know who are we really? You know,

1077
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,360
there's these myths and urban legends about who we are.

1078
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 4: But I think if they saw that we're just kind

1079
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,039
of goofy, normal people, like it's we're just.

1080
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:40,159
Speaker 2: That's our goal here, hopefully they'll get the different side

1081
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:42,840
of your personalities one.

1082
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,599
Speaker 4: Of the Goofy your seals, So I'm a good ambassador

1083
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:46,760
for the Goofy to the team.

1084
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: So hopefully that comes through in the interview to your listeners.

1085
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:52,519
Speaker 2: I guess it's a little bit of a throwback to

1086
00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:54,320
mash and Hogan's heroes.

1087
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 3: Right there, you go.

1088
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:57,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, or maybe a little poly Shore in the army

1089
00:50:57,559 --> 00:50:58,480
now if you ever.

1090
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,599
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's intense. Thank you so much again, Clark

1091
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:06,960
for doing this. We'd so appreciate it very much.

1092
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, absolutely, I had a blast, Thank you very much,

1093
00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:11,239
so much fun.

1094
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,159
Speaker 2: Clark and Pastado, I don't know what they got that

1095
00:51:14,199 --> 00:51:16,280
came by that. I am p A S t A

1096
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,800
t Oh. You can find them at good Vibes dudes

1097
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,719
dot com. He really does have good vibes. I have

1098
00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:23,920
Good Vibes podcast with Clark and Pistata and Ryan g

1099
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,159
Uh do you want to send anybody anywhere else? Clark's

1100
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:27,880
is that good?

1101
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah, that's good.

1102
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,559
Speaker 4: I mean, if you guys want to DM me, my

1103
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:36,639
personal Instagram account is Clark Underscore m Pistado. A lot

1104
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:39,719
of younger guys will will hit me up with questions about,

1105
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,840
you know, how to prepare for this or that or Hey,

1106
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,760
I'm married with a wife and kids. Should I be

1107
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,000
a sealer green Beret? How does it affect family and

1108
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:48,840
all that stuff? And so, if you want to send

1109
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,920
me a personal message my personal Instagram account, I reply

1110
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,199
to every DM I get and I'm happy to try

1111
00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:56,280
to pay it forward if I can answer your questions.

1112
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,679
If not, I can hear you in the right direction,

1113
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,559
So feel free to hit me up anytime.

1114
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 2: Cool against Clark, Underscore, Impastado, and I am P A

1115
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:07,639
S T A t O. Thank you so much again, Clark,

1116
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:09,440
Thank you everyone for joining us. Make sure to share

1117
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,519
a subscribe, hit that I like button and leave a

1118
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:13,320
comment if you can. Thanks a lot, everybody,