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Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness.

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Speaker 2: Join us as we dive into the deep end of

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the unexplainable word and try to piece together what happened.

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Speaker 1: And you are listening to Locations Unknown, O, what's up everybody,

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and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm

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your co host, Joe. You rod on with me as

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always is a guy who spills his milk just to

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prove he won't cry over it.

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Speaker 2: Mike Vannibogart Ah.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe, and thank you once again to all

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of our amazing listeners for tuning in. Just a few

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updates before we get go in first new Patreon shoutouts

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to Justin Ware, Alex Sizon, and Elizabeth Persons. So thank

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you for following the show. Thank you very much supporting

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the show. We truly mean it, not just saying it.

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Speaker 1: So one of us means it more than the other.

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You have to figure out which one. Yeah, figure that out. No,

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but truly thank you.

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Speaker 3: Everything you see in the video and hear in your

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ears is because of supporters like you, So thank you

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so very much. If you want to call the show,

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you can call two eight three nine to one six'

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nine one. Three we're past due for doing another voicemail.

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Episode so, Yes joe is going to be off on

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a little adventure in the next, week so you've got

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a few more weeks to. Call But i'm feeling like

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the next when he gets, back we're going to do.

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One So i'm gonna be, like you're ready to, go

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ready to rock and?

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Speaker 2: Roll so going To miami ooh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Fun it's supposed to be a little chilly, though so

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we'll see hopefully that ends WHEN i get. There nothing

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can be colder than. Here, yeah it's like right now

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it's showing. It it's like Seventy. Yeah, wow that feels

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so bad for the last TIME i was there at

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this time BECAUSE i go to Love, burn which is

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the Burning Man. Regional, yeah it was like eighty And

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sonny the whole, time and that's really WHAT i want right.

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Speaker 3: Now In, february, yeah so well that'll be fun For.

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Joe i'm stuck here in The arctic. Wilderness i'll send you,

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pictures okay of how awesome it. Is i'm gonna look

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at them In.

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Speaker 2: July.

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Speaker 3: Yeah if you want to follow some of the other

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shows on our, network you can follow off The, trails

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weird as we know who runs the Spark, crime off

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The good and. Relish if you want to support our,

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show we're On, patreon YouTube, memberships premium subscriptions On, apple And.

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Speaker we have a store that you can buy hats

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and playing cards and all kinds of fun stuff, sweatshirts

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so check that out if you want to support the.

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Show and if you times are tough and money's, tight

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at least stuff you're watching this on, YouTube give us a.

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Like if you're listening On apple Or, spotify subscribe and

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leave a. Comment that just helps with THE ai masterminds

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to help distribute our show.

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Speaker 2: Better, yeah so is this going to air This friday

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or next? Week next? Week, okay all, right well we'll

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cut that. Out yeah, no we. Won't that's. Right SO

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i was.

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Speaker 1: Gonna say something that might be, relevant but it'll be

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too late by. Then oh, okay well actually, yeah if

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they hear It, friday they wouldn't be listening to. IT

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i was gonna, say if anyone's at Love, burn let

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me know And i'll go do a meeting. Greet it's

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like thousands of people go to. It, yeahs, maybe well

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this will be airing after your.

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Speaker 2: Back, No i'm coming.

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Speaker 1: BACK i Leave tuesday next, WEEK i go through the

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weekend and come back next to the. Monday oh, okay

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but they would they would have to listen to it

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while they're, there AND i guarantee.

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Speaker 3: Them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah so, anyway all, right, everybody let's get ye're up

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and get out to explore locations. Unknown april, first nineteen eighty,

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one a twenty eight year old elite solo climber leaves

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a remote shelter deep In Alaska's Ruth, glacier pulling a

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sled and heading alone Towards dnali's imposing east. Side experienced

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deliberate and traveling, light he moved into a heavily crevassed

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ice beneath one of the most unforgiving mountains On. Earth

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when his expected return window, passes concerns begin to grow

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and search efforts expand across, glaciers avalanche, paths and possible exit.

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Routes join us this week as we investigate the disappearance

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Of Johnny.

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Speaker 2: Waterman so we.

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Speaker 1: Are headed up To Alaska's Dannali National park and preserve

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sub location The Alaska Range danali Or mount. McKinley ruth

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glacier systems south side Of nale And Ruth, gorge specifically

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The Sheldon, amphitheater which is The Ruth glacier northwest fork

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Of Ruth Glacier East buttress Of. Danali that was his

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intended route in The Thayer, basin The Upper East buttress.

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Speaker 2: Region everyone get.

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Speaker 3: That.

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Speaker 2: Yep if you're From, alaska you might remember all that

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or have been.

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Speaker 3: There, yeah and later on when you're showing, STUFF i

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put some pictures BECAUSE i actually have your photos In,

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DENALI i wasn't. On we were pretty far from actual the.

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Mountain you could barely see it because of the. Clouds but,

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YEAH i was only there for a. Day yeah so that's,

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okay Soy i'll go back.

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Speaker 2: It, yeah it's.

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Speaker 3: Hard it's hard to get to the actual. Mountain we

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should do a listener trip. There that'd be. Fun, yeah

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one of these days we when we have. Time our

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list of things we're going to do when we have

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time is like two hundred things long. Now but if

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we're doing this full, time we would crank through it.

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Immediately oh, yeah so you, know get more. Patrons everyone,

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Listening go tell? Everybody, yes when was it? Established it was?

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Speaker 1: Established And february twenty, sixth nineteen seventeen Is mount McKinley

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National park expanded and renamed D Nali National park And

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preserve by the A nilca On december, second nineteen eighty

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and officially renamed To Dnali National park And preserve in twenty.

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Fifteen sees roughly four hundred and ninety eight thousand visitors per,

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year so almost half a. Million some interesting. Facts dnali is.

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Speaker 2: Huge it's.

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Speaker 1: Huge it's bigger than MANY us. States Denali National park

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And preserve covers six million acres of, wilderness more area

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than the state Of New. JERSEY i do like through

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the years about How New jersey is always the reference

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for measurement of national, park always the punching. Bag it's,

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Tiny it's always like almost as big As New. Jersey,

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yeah it's bigger Than New. Jersey it contains The Talls

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mountain In North. America The Nali summit rises to twenty

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three hundred and ten feet above sea, level making it

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the highest peak on the. Continent it hosts a remarkable

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diversity of. Wildlife The nale's home to thirty nine mammal,

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species one hundred and sixty nine bird, species and even

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a native amphibian made richer by wide open glacial valleys and.

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Tundra it has only working sled dog kennels in The National,

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park the only working dog sled, kennels so the sled

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program has operated for nearly a, century and these dogs

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historically helped rangers patrol wintertime. Wilderness you can See Alaska's

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Big five wildlife while exploring the, park especially along the

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D Nali Park. Road in, summer visitors can spot grizzly, bears, moose, caribou,

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wolves and. Dalshee the climate conditions are extreme if you can.

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Imagine denali lies far enough north that it experiences Long

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arctic winters and short, summers and its high elevations are

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permanently snow, covered conditions that have produced some of the

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coldest recorded temperatures in THE. Us permafrost weaves through much

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of the, park So denali's ground is underlain by, permafrost

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a permanently frozen layer of soil and. Ice climate change

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is melting parts of, it reshaping, landscapes and causing landslides

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like The Pretty Rock's landslide along The Denali Park, road

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a living reminder of geological change in. Action some more

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in depth features of the. Climate in Late march and Early,

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April denali exists in a Seasonal No Man's. Land winter

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has not released its, grip but spring storms begin to

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destabilize snowpack across the.

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Speaker 2: Range is that called a? STRADDLE a? Straddle?

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Speaker 1: No? No, remember, YES i, KNOW i was gonna let.

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IT i was gonna let it. Slide we're gonna get stratle. Months,

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yeah thet month shoulder, seasons so.

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Speaker 2: Daylight back to.

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Speaker 1: This, now daylight is increasingly increasing, Rapidly yet temperatures remain brutally,

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cold and the mountain's weather systems are vatal and. Unforgiving

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this is one of the most dangerous transitional periods on

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The Alaska range. Calendar at elevations along the Roof glacier

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and its northwest, fork Where Johnny waterman was last, seen

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temperatures commonly range from negative twenty degrees fahrenheit to zero

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even during daylight. Hours that's like the last two weeks.

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HERE i, know it doesn't seem that bad for. Us

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we're in. Buildings, yeah wind chill regularly drives perceived temperatures

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far lower sustain wind funnel swims funnel through the glacial

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systems and accelerate around buttresses and, ridgelines producing sudden white

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out conditions with little. Warning storms in this period often

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arrive fast and, violently bringing high winds and heavy snowfall

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that can erase tracks within. Hours On, denali a single

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storm can completely reset at the, mountain filling, crevasses loading avalanche,

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paths and obscuring any visual trace of. MOVEMENT a documented

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storm struck The Ruth glacier region On april, second nineteen eighty,

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one one day After watermen's, departure significantly altering surface conditions and.

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Visibility avalanche hazards is particularly acute in Early. April snow

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deposited by late winter storms sits atop, older weaker, layers

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and rising solar input begins to stress these. Bonds even

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small slab avalanches in this terrain can have catastrophic, consequences

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especially on glacier forks that funnel debris into crevassed runout.

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Zones multiple climbers in the area reported active avalanche conditions

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during the same Window watermen was. Traveling crevasses themselves pose

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a unique spring. Hazard snow bridges that appear solid and

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cold midwinter conditions begin to weaken as temperatures, fluctuate wind

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loaded snow can mask voids dozens or even hundreds of

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feet deep on heavily broken glaciers like the northwest fork

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of The, routh safe travel typically requires rope systems a

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Margin Johnny waterman did not. Have Finally april weather Nd

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nali's notoriously deceptive clear mornings often deteriorate rapidly into afternoon,

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storms with winds increasing and clouds forming below, climbers cutting

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off escape. Routes aircraft access becomes, unreliable and, rescue even

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if initiated, immediately can be delayed for. Days in nineteen eighty,

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one search flights were repeatedly grounded or limited by cloud

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covered turbulence, invisibility even during otherwise flable. Windows in, short

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the climate And Ruth glacier area during Early april is

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not just, cold it is actively hostile to solo. Travel

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the combination of deep, cold unstable snowpack and complete crevasse,

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fields and rapidly changing storms creates an environment where a

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single misstep or delay can become, fatal and where evidence

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of that moment can disappear almost.

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Speaker 2: Instantly sounds pretty pretty violent and.

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Speaker 1: Wild, yeah it sounds like somewhere you probably shouldn't. Be.

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Yeah more about the. Terrain the train Where Johnny waterman

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disappeared is not a single route or a, feature but

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a layered gauntlet of hazards that begin long before climber

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ever Reaches denali's main. Mass from The Sheldon, amphitheater the

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northwest fork of The Ruth glacier acts as a, narrow

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winding corridor of, ice riddled with deep crevasses and constantly

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reshaped by, snow wind and ice. Fall travel here is, slow,

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technical and, unforgiving even before elevation becomes a. Factor the

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Northwest fork is especially dangerous because it is heavily broken

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but deceptively smooth. Looking wind scours the surface, flat making

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crevasses with thin snow bridges that can collapse without. Warning

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these openings are not shallow, cracks many descend tens to

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hundreds of, feet and once inside self rescues effectively impossible

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for a solo. Climber this section of glacier is normally traveled,

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roped even by experienced, teams because visual queues alone cannot

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reliably identify safe. Passage as the glacier rises towards the east,

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buttress the terrain steepens and funnels climbers toward terrain, traps

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areas where a, slip, collapse or avalanche carries consequences far

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beyond the initial. Event slopes here angle upward into hanging

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basins and seric, zones while the glacier below breaks apart

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into labyrinths of slots and ice. Towers any fall in

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this zone is unlikely to stop on the. Surface gravity

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does not just pull. Downward it pulls climbers into the

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mountain the, east butchers. Itself is not a clean ridge

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rising from the, glacier but a complex interface of snow,

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snopes snow, slopes rock, bands and ice. Runnels approaches require

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traversing beneath loaded faces and crossing avalanche paths that naturally

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drain into the glacier. Below even small releases in these

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zones can knock a climber off balance and sweep them

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into crevassed, runouts where evidence disappears quickly and. PERMANENTLY i

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heard a story once in these very same ice. Fields,

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00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:57,440
yea if you fall, down there's so riddable with, crevasses

233
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,159
you could hear someone yelling and probably not find. Them oh, Really,

234
00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:04,080
Yeah like if you're this couple hundred feet, away, like

235
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,320
because there's so many holes and they go so. Deep,

236
00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:08,600
yeah how like you could probably hear, them like you

237
00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:11,519
basically hear them yelling and never be able to find them.

238
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:11,759
Speaker 2: Again.

239
00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah from What i've heard from when we were there In,

240
00:14:14,519 --> 00:14:19,000
alaska Summating denali is one of the hardest summits on the,

241
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,440
planet not necessarily because of the climbing, involved but just getting. There,

242
00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:25,679
yeah because it's not like a normal park where there's

243
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,600
lots of trails to get, In, like it's all. Backcountry

244
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:30,600
it's an adventure just to the. Base just getting in

245
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,840
there is like you're, reading this is how you just

246
00:14:32,919 --> 00:14:35,320
get to the. Mountain it's very it's.

247
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,759
Speaker 1: Insane, Yeah So i'll go to some of the Hazard

248
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,159
johnny would have faced on this hike In. Denali the

249
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,840
most immediate Hazard Johnny waterman face was traveling completely alone

250
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,759
in one of the most complex glacier systems in The Alaska.

251
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,960
Range On denali's solo travel doesn't just remove, companionship it removes.

252
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,080
Redundancy there's no backup if equipment, fails no second set

253
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,080
of eyes to read snore or, ice and no margin

254
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,799
for even a minor. Injury any incident that would be

255
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,080
so revivable for rope team becomes potentially fatal when faced.

256
00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:07,320
Alone so crevasses where the single greatest objective. Danger the

257
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,679
northwest fork of The Ruth glacier is densely, fractured which

258
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,759
with snow bridges that can appear solid wall concealing voids

259
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,000
hundreds of feet. Deep so you could be walking across

260
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,039
something that looks solid and it's only like a foot

261
00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:18,840
of light snow and.

262
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,919
Speaker 3: It just break right through and then you're gone into avoid, yeah,

263
00:15:23,039 --> 00:15:27,039
essentially and it can be like it's like falling off of.

264
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,279
Speaker 2: A, building, yeah one hundred. Feet, yeah it's.

265
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,399
Speaker 1: Crazy there's stories of people that will slide down because it's.

266
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,360
Ice they get, Wedged, yeah and then they're stuck for so.

267
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:38,200
Long if you unwedge, them they'll have blood. Clots there's

268
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,080
just no good. Scenario. Yeah in Early, april the fluctuating

269
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,000
temperatures and windload weaken those, bridges as we said, before

270
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:50,879
And waterman was observed traveling completely, unroped meaning a crevasse

271
00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:54,399
fall would have resulted in immediate entrapment with no possibility

272
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,559
of self. Rescue so he had no, ropes was walking

273
00:15:57,559 --> 00:16:00,440
across this stuff if he falls In, yeah, no oh knows.

274
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,039
EXACTLY i would say impossible to. Find, yes in this,

275
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,799
environment avalanches don't need to be large to be. Lethal

276
00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:11,360
we talked about. That several climbers in the air reported

277
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,879
and active avalanche conditions during the same. Period exposure was

278
00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:17,480
another constant threat outside of everything we've been talking. About

279
00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:20,519
he was not carrying any tent or sleeping, bag relying

280
00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:23,080
in set on movement and snow caves for. Survival the

281
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,840
strategy demand's constant physical, output which it can. Work, yeah

282
00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:28,399
if you dig down in the, snow you can make

283
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:31,360
a really nice. Area don't need that, stuff but you

284
00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:33,480
know you can't be. Injured you have to be physically

285
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:35,480
capable of digging it, out which is a lot of.

286
00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:39,159
Work if anyone's ever dug like, skiers if they get

287
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,840
stuck in the snow like you can see them and

288
00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:43,720
like getting all the snow, off it's a ton of.

289
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:45,759
Speaker 2: Work, Yeah so any.

290
00:16:45,559 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 1: Delay weather injury navigation air increases the risk of hypothermia

291
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:53,399
Exponentially in april, conditions un denali immobilization for even a

292
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:56,120
short period can be, fatal especially at night when temperatures.

293
00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:00,240
Plummet and wind strips heat away. Rapidly navigation itself was.

294
00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:03,480
Hazardous White outs are common on The Ruth, glacier where

295
00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:07,799
featureless snow surfaces blend seamlessly into the. Clouds in these,

296
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,200
conditions even experienced climbers can lose, orientation drift into unsafe,

297
00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:16,720
terrain and unknowingly cross weakened snow. Bridges Sol climbers cannot

298
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,880
safely probe crevasses while maintaining, balance especially when pulling a,

299
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,880
sled which can destabilize footing and increase the fall. Risk,

300
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,559
finally rescue limitations magnified every other. Hazard aircraft axis in

301
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:32,279
this terrain is weather dependent and often delayed for. Days

302
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,559
ground rescue is slow and extremely dangerous due to crevasses

303
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:40,200
and avalanche. Exposure in practical, Terms watermen was operating in

304
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,880
an environment where help was unlikely to arrive in, time

305
00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:47,279
even if an emergency had been immediately. Detected taking, together

306
00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:51,400
these hazards did not operate. Independently they compounded each. OTHER

307
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,240
a slip became a, fall a fall became a, trapment

308
00:17:54,319 --> 00:17:58,000
a delay became. Exposure An in terrain designed by ice and,

309
00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:01,079
gravity the mountain did not need a care hatistrophic, mistake

310
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,000
only a single moment where everything aligned against. Him so

311
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:12,240
so don't go. There, yeah, ever especially in the straddle. Seasons,

312
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,960
yeah it's, yeah it takes very experienced climbers in a

313
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,119
team to really do.

314
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,759
Speaker 2: This if he was, experienced he was very he's, very very.

315
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 3: Fit, yeah he will get in the timeline of what he,

316
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,920
did which is, impressive even before he got To.

317
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 2: Tanali all, right well tell me about, him.

318
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,039
Speaker 3: Miney. Yeah so his name Is Johnny. Waterman he was

319
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,880
Born september ninth of nineteen fifty. Two his last confirmed

320
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,279
sighting Was april first of nineteen eighty. One he was a,

321
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,359
male age twenty. Eight he was about five foot eight

322
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,359
of five foot, ten one hundred and forty to one

323
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,599
hundred and sixty. Pounds he had brown, hair brown. Eyes

324
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,039
he had a, beard and he wore a he had a.

325
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:58,400
Beard he was, lean he was endurance. Trained he's done

326
00:18:58,519 --> 00:19:03,599
very long distance solo alpine trips. Before so it's like

327
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,039
it's safe to say when they say he didn't have

328
00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:06,880
a sleeping, bag he had.

329
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,759
Speaker 1: Intent he knew what he was. Doing, yeah that was on.

330
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,319
Purpose it wasn't like an. Oversight, No and he had

331
00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:14,000
he had a very warm gear.

332
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 3: On so he had a blue, jacket blue pants of vapor, barrier,

333
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,640
boots snow, shoes snowmobile.

334
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 2: Suit he had a bivvy, sack but no.

335
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:24,039
Speaker 3: Tents And joe's gonna pull up just some PICTURES i,

336
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,720
found got some of the there's a picture Of. Johnny,

337
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:32,559
there there's a picture of. Him he was well known

338
00:19:32,759 --> 00:19:36,480
in The alaska climbing, community like he was known as

339
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:39,279
one of the best climbers at the. Time, okay kind

340
00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:43,720
of renowned in this part of the. Country so yet

341
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,119
he had a bvvysack with no. Tent he had a

342
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,920
red plastic sled that he'd used to pull his. Gear

343
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,359
he had route marking. Ones he had around fourteen days

344
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,680
of food with, him which included things like powdered, Milk

345
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,920
cawnie sugar. Flour Like joe, said he was not carrying

346
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,160
a sleeping, bag tent or. Radio they didn't have personal

347
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,640
locator beacons at that, TIME i don't. Believe so he

348
00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:07,720
was pretty much out on his own and you're not

349
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:09,079
going to see a lot of. People and you can

350
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,559
see some of these routes like up To nali there's

351
00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:13,319
one of the routes.

352
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: UP i don't even understand. That.

353
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,319
Speaker 1: YEAH i like how they're, like, yeah obviously it's this.

354
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 2: Line. Yeah.

355
00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:25,599
Speaker 3: Yeah and some of the other pictures show a more

356
00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,079
expanded view OF i DON'T i have kind of in

357
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:33,079
the picture title what we're looking. At there's back That's Mount,

358
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,680
hunter that's referenced in here.

359
00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: SOMEWHERE i, mean all looks really. Cool that's The.

360
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: Eastbusters, yeah, OKAY i mean it's a very technical.

361
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: Climate it's something you don't just do on a. Whim,

362
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:45,880
yeah no.

363
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 3: Amateurs, Personalitywise johnny, was LIKE i, said widely regarded as intensely,

364
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:54,920
driven highly, independent and deeply committed to solo. Climbing he

365
00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:58,680
favored minimalist approaches and accepted extreme risk as part of his.

366
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,279
Philosophy he was known to be thoughtful and, articulate but

367
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,880
also increasingly withdrawn over. Time he resisted reliance on technology or,

368
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:13,039
assistance and often rejected conventional safety. Margins but with all that,

369
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,799
said he didn't exhibit impulsive behavior and. Planning his actions

370
00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:20,440
reflected long term intent and goal directed movement rather than.

371
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,160
Randomness before he went on this, adventure he had it

372
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,200
all planned out exactly how he was going to do,

373
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,160
It so it's not like he was going to show

374
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,160
up and figure it. Out he knew exactly what he

375
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,440
was going to. Do medical. Issues waterman had a long

376
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,599
history of documented mental health struggles earlier in his, life

377
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,720
including periods of institutionalization following some family, trauma but there

378
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:47,319
was no evidence that indicates any acute medical impairments at

379
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,559
the time of his, disappearance and there was no record

380
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,559
of physical illness or injury prior To april first of

381
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,839
nineteen eighty. One as far as occupation and, hobby this

382
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,200
was pretty much as. Hobby he was an, alpinist Dur it's.

383
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,359
Climber he was a writer and thinker in climbing. Circles

384
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,559
he was a dedicated wilderness. Traveler he wasn't a professional,

385
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:12,440
guide but his primary identity was as an independent solo

386
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,920
climber pursuing extreme personal. Objectives he kind of reminds me

387
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,440
a little bit of that guy who free. Soloed you

388
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,319
know What i'm talking, About Alex.

389
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: Donald, yeah he just climbed that top by Top bye

390
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,440
building on live streamed.

391
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 3: IT i feel, like obviously they're doing different, things BUT

392
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,559
i feel like guy Like johnny and a guy Like

393
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:36,400
alex are kind of cut from the same. CLOTH i

394
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,200
watched that documentary on. Him, yeah it's. Wild it's.

395
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: WILD i.

396
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,759
Speaker 1: LIKED i liked when they did THE mri on them

397
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,480
to like, say, like what's wrong with? You, Yeah and

398
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:47,119
they just found out like the centers of his brain

399
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:48,880
that normal people light.

400
00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: Up for fear he just don't doesn't exist for. Him,

401
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:53,319
yeah he just like It's i'm just and HE i

402
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,799
think he has like the strongest fingers on the. PLANET

403
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:59,680
i can't imagine some of those drone shots where he's

404
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,200
like off way up and you just you just hanging

405
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:05,240
on by like eight. Fingers, yeah and like his feet

406
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:07,359
and it's like it looks like a flat.

407
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: Wall. YEAH i don't. UNDERSTAND i don't understand how he did.

408
00:23:09,759 --> 00:23:10,960
IT i don't.

409
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 3: Know so if any of you listening haven't seen the

410
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,720
documentary on his, climb it's Called Free, Solo Free. Solo,

411
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,000
YEAH i strongly recommend watching. It it's absolutely amazing that

412
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:23,440
a human being could do. That. Yeah all, right back

413
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,440
To johnny experience in the. Wilderness so he had extensive wilderness.

414
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,920
Experience he had years of experience traveling alone in, remote

415
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
high risk wilderness. Environments he was capable of long unsupported,

416
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:40,319
approaches snow cave, survival and prolonged. Isolation some of his

417
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,240
notable achievements include a month's long solo traverse On Mount,

418
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,799
hunter which we had a picture up Of Mount hunter.

419
00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:50,640
Earlier he's made multiple winter attempts in The Alaska, range

420
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:56,039
and he's done repeated solo expeditions emphasizing endurance and self.

421
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,480
Reliance prior experience in this. Location he also had significant

422
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,359
experience here In. Denali he was familiar with glacial, travel

423
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:10,279
LIKE i, said, snowcaves and cold weather. Survival he also

424
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,240
had knowledge Of Ruth glacier region and standard approach. Corridors,

425
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:20,160
however The Northwest fork area Of Ruth glacier And East

426
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,160
Buttress approach represented some of the most complex enhancers train

427
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,359
in the, park especially for someone who's doing it solo and.

428
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,599
Unroped so even though he has all this, experience this

429
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:37,599
he's still undertaking probably one of the hardest things a

430
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,559
solo climber could.

431
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:42,839
Speaker 1: Do so my cursor is on The Ruth glacier And

432
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,599
i'm trying to zoom out until you can really SEE i,

433
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,720
mean you can see, towns.

434
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:49,599
Speaker 2: But they're so far.

435
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: Away, yeah, yeah and it's deceiving how far away anchorages From.

436
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,559
Denali it's at least a five hour drive IF i recall,

437
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:01,160
correctly like basically just going straight.

438
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,759
Speaker 2: NORTH i this is this.

439
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: Chunk, yeah that's is Like Deni National park and you

440
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,559
can see it from hours. Away you can See danali

441
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,680
kind of just just rising rising from the ground and the.

442
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,640
Horizon it's a crazy sight to. See that's crazy and

443
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,359
IT'S i mean it's so, massive and.

444
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: Yeah this is The Ruth glacier right. Here, yeah it

445
00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:24,640
was so cool just being. There just you're when you're.

446
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,680
There there were other tourists and, stuff but it's. Remote you're,

447
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,319
like you're out, there so, Oh joe's pulling up a

448
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:34,759
few of fere of. Pictures, yeah we didn't have anything.

449
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,440
Though the funny thing was it was sunny when we started.

450
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:42,400
HIKING i was with our Friend, flavio and it was

451
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,759
sunny when it, started and then it started pouring later

452
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:47,920
in the day and we ended up getting just. Soaked

453
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,799
it was warm enough where you could wear shorts UNTIL

454
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,079
i wasn't wearing. Shorts it wasn't that, one but.

455
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: Because you know the, Rules, yeah one of the pictures

456
00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:00,200
you can kind of faintly make Off denali in the,

457
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,599
distance open up one of the darker like that one

458
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,000
so way off in the, distance like over.

459
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: There, yeah that would be the start Of. Dunali, jeez

460
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:11,519
we never got a good picture of it just because

461
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,400
of the. Clouds even where we. Were it, WAS i

462
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,559
mean it Was i'd love to go.

463
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: Back look at. That that's pretty nice little. Rainbow, yeah

464
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:22,680
double rainbow all the way across.

465
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:28,039
Speaker 3: This so, yeah towards that, afternoon a storm started rolling

466
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:31,319
in and we just got absolutely. Soaked we saw some. Moose,

467
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,720
yeah let's go. There, YEAH i mean that's just so.

468
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,640
Three you just look at any direction you see mountain.

469
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,680
Ranges it's just NonStop. MOUNTAINS i love. It, YEAH i

470
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,559
only got to experience it for a, day but it's

471
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:49,279
a hard place to get. To and then he got,

472
00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:56,359
married and yeah the rest is. History, yeah all, right

473
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,920
so we will move into the. Timeline so the prior

474
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,079
this is WHAT i call before nineteen eighty. One So

475
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,880
johnny had spent several years preparing for the winter solo

476
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,640
ascent Of. Denali he had made multiple unsuccessful winter attempts

477
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:15,640
in The Alaska, range steadily increasing his commitment to solo.

478
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,160
Climbing his reputation was shaped by extreme endurance, efforts, including

479
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:24,039
LIKE i said, earlier at prolonged solo traverse On Mount,

480
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,160
hunter which he did with minimal. Gear, however his life

481
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,440
also was marked by tragedy and loss of. Life his

482
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Brother bill disappeared during a sea kayaking trip in nineteen seventy,

483
00:27:35,759 --> 00:27:41,920
three and Afterward waterman struggled with isolation and some mental health.

484
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,880
Issues LIKE i said, earlier he did spend some time

485
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,240
institutionalized before returning to, climbing and by the late nineteen,

486
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:54,640
Seventies denali had become his kind of central objective in

487
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,799
what was driving his motivation in? Life he was going

488
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:02,200
to summit that. Mountain it's now winter nineteen seventy five

489
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,000
or nineteen seventy nine to nineteen. Eighty On december nineteenth

490
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:11,200
of nineteen seventy, Nine waterman flew to The kahiltina base

491
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:15,039
camp area intending to do a minimum provisions winter solo On.

492
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,119
Tenali he remained on the mountain for roughly two weeks

493
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,359
before banning his attempt due to weather and logistical.

494
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: Issues this could be that.

495
00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:27,759
Speaker 1: Area so there's K hiltona Is, Peaks East, okay and

496
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,880
this shot looks like a more established. Area, yeah they

497
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,480
built some wind. Walls, yeah just right out of the. Snow,

498
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,039
yeah so gnarly it looks beautiful and. Cold, yeah BUT

499
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:41,839
i mean you're just on a like this is what's

500
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,279
what's terrifying about, This like this is on a, glacier, Right,

501
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,680
yeah so they have this little area down you could

502
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,559
like walk off one hundred feet that way and go.

503
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,079
Speaker 2: Down, yeah like just. Done don't go out to go

504
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:53,359
pee at, night, no like rope up or.

505
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,319
Speaker 3: Yeah just stay in the designated zone that you know

506
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,279
doesn't have a one hundred foot drop under your.

507
00:28:58,319 --> 00:29:00,599
Speaker 1: Feet, well and even, then And i'm paranoid AND i

508
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,759
overthink this. Stuff Oh i'm thinking of they could be

509
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,240
on top of a big snowbridge somewhere that's just fine

510
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:07,559
all day and then, yeah now all of a sudden

511
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:09,240
you walk on it and you weigh an extra ten

512
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:10,039
pounds in the last.

513
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,839
Speaker 3: Person or an avalanche happens at one of these, peaks,

514
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,799
YEAH i mean just washes you. Out you see stuff

515
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:19,160
like that happen On everest at the base.

516
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: Camp. Yeah base camp got hit that one year and

517
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:21,559
killed a bunch of.

518
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: People, Yeah so the risk is even there when you're

519
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,240
not even going up, yet and you're just at base. Camp,

520
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:30,319
yeah AND i mean you're deep in at that.

521
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,759
Speaker 2: Point i'm gonna just pick some random spots so you

522
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:33,119
can keep.

523
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,519
Speaker 3: Going so this shows that he wasn't completely reckless because

524
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:42,480
he was calling off attempts due to weather and logistics.

525
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:47,839
Issues after, this he did actually then briefly commit himself

526
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,200
to a psychiatric care, again but then he soon let

527
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:54,839
himself back out and refocused On. Denali so this does

528
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,599
highlight his cyclical struggles that he was having at the

529
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:58,960
time with mental health.

530
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,119
Speaker 2: Issues the oh that's how they get. In they land

531
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,960
a plane right on. It, yeah with skis on. It,

532
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:04,480
yeah that's so.

533
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:08,759
Speaker 3: Cool it's Now february nineteen eighty. One we don't have

534
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,000
an exact, date But waterman attempted a long overland approach

535
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:17,200
towards The Alaska. Range this is. Crazy he walked unsupported

536
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:20,519
rather than flying. In he turned back after a stow

537
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:24,359
failure made continued travel. Unsafe he soon regrouped and prepared

538
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,920
for another. Launch this was part of his audacious nineteen

539
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,960
eighty one plan to Approach denali entirely on foot from near,

540
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:34,839
Anchorage so he started an anchorage.

541
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,279
Speaker 1: Geez and walked on foot all the way To. Denali

542
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,640
so that's just unnecessary but kind of. Cool it's it's

543
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:44,880
the manliest Thing i've ever heard.

544
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: Of, yeah it's can you zoom out and just look

545
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:53,079
at the? Terrain where's anchorage? South so so there it. Is,

546
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,440
yeah so he, Started.

547
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Oh let's do all as the crow FLOWER a random

548
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,640
as girl flies one hundred and thirty. Miles, yeah before Doing.

549
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:07,319
Tanali after you described the, TERRAIN i was gonna, Say

550
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:09,279
i'm looking at all these people here that flew, in

551
00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:11,480
And i'm just, like, man that looks awful and they flew.

552
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: There, yeah and he's, like, Nop i'm walking. In SO

553
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:17,960
i mean in the, eighties, yeah nineteen eighty.

554
00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Equipment wasn't as. Good so this Is Denali Base. Camp. Okay,

555
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,279
yeah it's like a little. Airport you can see together

556
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:24,880
there's a. Plane.

557
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah so this is where he was headed. First this, area,

558
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:33,279
okay is that The Ruth? Glacier, yeah this is part of. It,

559
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:36,319
OKAY i mean it goes down through. Here, yeah it's

560
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:38,599
like this is The Ruth. Glacier so.

561
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: Okay so it's early to Mid march of nineteen eighty.

562
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:48,519
One so in Early, March waterman snowshoed into The Sheldon

563
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:52,839
amphitheater on The Ruth glacier and established himself near the Mountain.

564
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,359
Speaker 2: HOUSE i don't know if you can try and find

565
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,599
this the mountain.

566
00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: House not not the, food Though i've eaten my fair

567
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:00,279
share mountain.

568
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,799
Speaker 2: House over the. Years what was it called, Again it's

569
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,079
The Sheldon. Amphitheater, okay you just keep going all look.

570
00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:06,920
Forks it might take.

571
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,759
Speaker 3: Me LIKE i, Said he established himself near the Mountain,

572
00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:13,680
house and the approach itself was long and. Demanding he

573
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,640
remained in the area for several, weeks preparing equipment and

574
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,359
interacting with other climbing. Parties during this, period he arranged

575
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,640
aircraft deliveries to the Mountain. House the boxes delivered contain

576
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:28,960
climbing gear and personal, items but not. Food he also

577
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680
returned a borrowed, radio stating he would not need. It

578
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:35,839
according to his climbing Friend Kate, bull he appeared physically

579
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,400
worn and increasingly indifferent to safety.

580
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,519
Speaker 1: Margins so do you think The Sheldon chalet is the same?

581
00:32:41,559 --> 00:32:44,799
Thing it's on the other. SIDE i don't really. Know

582
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:48,359
i'll set near The Sheldon. Amphitheater, well THAT'S i typed

583
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,359
In Sheldon amphitheater and Again Sheldon.

584
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: Chalet maybe The Mountain house isn't there. Anymore maybe that

585
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,160
is The Mountain. House i'll look at this. Time he's

586
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,240
been out there for a. While he's starting the kind

587
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,519
of wear down, physically, mentally he's kind of becoming. Indifferent

588
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,559
one of The Cliff, hudson was one of the pilots

589
00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:08,920
for the, deliveries also noticed and he was a friend Of.

590
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,359
Waterman he noticed his detached demeanor at this.

591
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: Time that is.

592
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,759
Speaker 3: It, okay so that's The Mountain. House, yeah so, yeah

593
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:18,720
that's the house that he was staying. At and actually

594
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:21,920
he it's Now march thirteenth of nineteen eighty, one and

595
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:25,440
inside The Mountain, House waterman wrote on a box My Last,

596
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:30,000
kiss one forty TWO pm, three thirteen eighty. One the

597
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,839
note was left with the gear he did not take with.

598
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,039
Him so this has led to a lot of speculation

599
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,400
of what the meaning of that. Was so no one

600
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,839
really knows even to this. Day but he left that

601
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,079
and that was kind of an impending like A i know.

602
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:50,359
Speaker 2: Oranger, YEAH i know you're trying to, say AND i

603
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:50,880
can't think of it.

604
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: Either, yeah it's Late march, eight nineteen eighty. One now

605
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,759
so throughout Late, March waterman discussed his plans open openly

606
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,599
with other. Climbers On Ruth, glacier he just a route

607
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,720
up the northwest fork Of Ruth, glacier Entering danali via

608
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:08,119
the East. Buttress he stated he would descend The Harper,

609
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:12,760
glacier continue Onto Muldreau, glacier and walk out To Wonder.

610
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,559
Lake he also discussed alternate, exits Including Buckskin, glacier indicating

611
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,000
flexibility in his descent. Plan he did end up leaving

612
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:24,519
excess equipment at the mountain, house suggesting a deliberate decision

613
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:25,599
to travel light once he.

614
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,519
Speaker 2: Departed in a guy like this who's very.

615
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 3: Physically fit and, experienced he knows that extra gear is

616
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,159
just going to slow him, Down and it's probably a

617
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:38,639
decent decision because you obviously you'd want to spend as

618
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,360
little time out there as, Possible so if you have

619
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,880
a bunch of gear slowing you, down that increases risks

620
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,519
of an. Accident but at the same, time if something

621
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:49,519
happens now you don't have a, tent you don't have

622
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:51,960
a sleeping, bag you don't have things that could keep you.

623
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,400
Alive though in this terrain and, CLIMATE i don't know

624
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,039
if that would even.

625
00:34:56,119 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: Matter.

626
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: Honestly it's Now april first of night teen eighty. One

627
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:04,000
johnny departed the Mountain house and moved up the northwest

628
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:08,840
fork of The Ruth glacier and pulling a red. Sled that,

629
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,880
day Climber Jerry kerr encountered watermen on the. Glacier during their,

630
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,440
conversation waterman stated he carried approximately fourteen days of. Food

631
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,119
he had no ten or sleeping. Bag his shelter consisted

632
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:24,480
of a bivy sack and a snowmobile. Suit he carried

633
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:28,599
a vapor berry, boots, snowshoes route marking, ones and obviously a.

634
00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:31,800
Sled he intended to enter the East buttress near eleven

635
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,719
nine hundred feet and continue. Upwards kerr observed waterman traveling

636
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,039
unroped through heavily crevassed, terrain moving directly towards The East

637
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:45,280
buttress approach Between peak eleven, thousand three hundred And mount Dan.

638
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,920
Beard so this encounter On april first would be the

639
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,679
last confirmed sighting Of. Johnny it's Now april, second of

640
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,719
nineteen eighty, one so On april, second high winds and

641
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,760
snowfall swept through The Ruth glacier, area erasing any tracks

642
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,719
and significantly altering surface. Conditions and this storm would directly

643
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,039
impact the later search basically because it erased any evidence

644
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:12,400
of Where johnny might have. Gone so this isn't like

645
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,199
the exact, route but here's the, Chalet, Yeah East Buttress,

646
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:19,400
peak so like It's i'm assuming it goes like, this,

647
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,880
yeah at least and then either that way or that

648
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,960
way and then zig zagging up straight. Walls, yeah, crazy

649
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,199
just absolutely. WILD i, mean this is this mountain's unlike

650
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,880
anything else In North. America when you look at, it it's, massive,

651
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:43,239
unforgiving it's just. Insane, yeah it's. Wild and you look

652
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,719
at the train around, it like to the, north In

653
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,159
south it's flat, Flat, yeah and that's why when you're

654
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,880
driving up to it it stands out so.

655
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,079
Speaker 1: Much let's see IF i can get a good picture

656
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,280
from like over here the McKinley.

657
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 3: River, yeah, oh all, Trees i'll find.

658
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,119
Speaker 2: One, yeah keep. Going it's.

659
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 3: Now april fourth of nineteen eighty, one A National Park

660
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,679
service ski patrol traveled up the West fork Of Ruth,

661
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,000
glacier but due to the storm On april, second no identical.

662
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,599
Tent defiable tracks were attributed to watermen were visible on

663
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,760
the Northwest. Fork the patrol included Rangers Dave buchanan And

664
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,880
Roger robinson And Scott. Gill it's Now april, seventh nineteen eighty.

665
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,400
ONE a guided party led By Mike covington traveled up

666
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:35,559
the Northwest. Fork they observed a single set of tracks

667
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:39,079
consistent with a loan climber pulling a, sled moving upward

668
00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:44,119
toward The East buttress with no return. Tracks, however avalanche

669
00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:46,599
conditions on that day forced the party to turn back

670
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:50,239
in that turn back before reaching higher. Elevations it's Now

671
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,559
april twelfth of nineteen eighty. One aerial reconnaissance flights were

672
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:57,920
conducted over To nali's, southeast east and north. Sides messages

673
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,519
were dropped to climbers On Muldro. Glacier no sightings were. Reported,

674
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:07,079
unfortunately radio contact with climbers on The South buttress produced no.

675
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 2: Information as.

676
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: Well Climbers Rick derek And pat McManus reported seeing snowshoe

677
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,400
tracks weaving through crevasses without rope. Protection another local, Climber Jim,

678
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,320
hale also assisted as an aerial, observer so at this

679
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,559
time Also waterman's, parents who at that time lived In,

680
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:30,880
vermont were notified that he was. Overdue Between april fourteenth

681
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,400
And april nineteenth eighty one and nineteen eighty, one there

682
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,159
was a lot of aerial searching going, on so you

683
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,920
had A Us Army chinook helicopter coordinating with park rangers

684
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,079
to observe for signs of. Watermen On april, fourteenth you

685
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:49,280
had overdue discussions with, people cabin, inquiries air services were coming.

686
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,960
In there were unconfirmed, sightings so a lot of leads

687
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,239
were Coming In april, fifteenth the schnook did a two

688
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,599
hour flight over The East, Buttress Southeast, Spur South, Buttress

689
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:06,360
Harper muldrow and didn't see. Anything april, eighteenth the pilots

690
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,159
confirmed That waterman stored gear at The Mountain house remained.

691
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,960
Untouched april, nineteenth with watermen overdue beyond his stated food,

692
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,760
supply the case now was formally. Escalated this date also

693
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,000
later appeared in administrative. Records again no sighting of them

694
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,039
at that. Time all in, all they had schnooks from

695
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:31,159
the two hundred and forty Second Aviation company working on

696
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:36,039
the fifteenth, Nineteenth they had flights With Ranger robinson And Ranger.

697
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:40,199
Buchanan so some of the flights that, covered LIKE i,

698
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,039
Said East, Buttress Harper, Glacier Carston's ridge and adjacent glacier

699
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:49,679
systems and all that, searching nothing was. Located, sadly On

700
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,400
april twentieth of nineteen eighty, one search efforts started extending

701
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,639
beyond the, mountain so patrol cabins along the park road were,

702
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:03,320
checked dog sled. Operators we're getting contacted and. Queried no

703
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,159
one reported seeing waterman exit the north side of the.

704
00:40:06,199 --> 00:40:09,239
Park hudson did another one point one and a half

705
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,760
hour solo flight over The East buttress. Area no, sign but,

706
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,719
yeah but they had a lot of people out there

707
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,880
looking for him at this point and nothing was.

708
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: Found, well So i'm looking at this is from The

709
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,360
West buttress. Summit, okay thirty five point three, miles sixteen

710
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,480
thousand feet of elevation. Gain so they're expecting twenty four plus,

711
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,920
hours so it's several. Days yeah, minimum that's probably perfect. Conditions,

712
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,639
yeah that's like when things going, well AS i, say

713
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:39,599
like turn the brightness. Down it it's just all. Snow

714
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:39,960
it's just.

715
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: Snow, yeah nothing going to do about.

716
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,039
Speaker 3: That, yeah for those just Listening joe has all trails

717
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:47,840
up and we're following the path that one would.

718
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: Take this is from the West buttress base.

719
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:55,639
Speaker 1: Camp, okay but so WHEN i did Killiman, jarro that

720
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:56,679
was roughly forty.

721
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 2: Miles, yeah out and.

722
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: Back but it, was Like i'll look it, up it

723
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,320
was a lot of elevation. Gain it wasn't sixteen thousand feet, NO.

724
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: I THINK i remember you saying. That it was a

725
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,199
lot of elegate elevation, game but it was spread out

726
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:09,199
over a longer.

727
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:09,679
Speaker 2: Distance.

728
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,039
Speaker 1: Yeah the last, push like the last, Day, yeah was

729
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:15,119
a lot like we went through the night and had

730
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,119
to just do zigzag up the mountain. Side but, yeah,

731
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:20,639
yeah it was over a three, days four days we

732
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:23,719
did it. In from What i've read, About, Yeah, kilmancharo

733
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,360
is it long?

734
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: Term gets?

735
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: You it's the just, constant nagging elevation gain of three

736
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,440
days straight and.

737
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,679
Speaker 2: You're supposed to do it in like eight to ten.

738
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,199
Speaker 1: Days, Yeah and because we have kids and, jobs we

739
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:40,960
like shortened. It we're, like we'll do it in like

740
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:42,800
FIVE i think it was five days we did it

741
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,639
in and that was too fatic. Wild, yeah that's where

742
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,840
it's just getting gnarly and they're not even at the

743
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,880
other base. Camp yet it's only twelve miles eight thousand

744
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,159
feet of elevation game twelve.

745
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: Miles that's, crazy that's so.

746
00:41:56,519 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 3: Gnarly, YEAH i MEAN i would love to Say i'd

747
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,079
love to do, this BUT i would never be able

748
00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:02,280
to do.

749
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: THIS i Think i'm gonna do.

750
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,559
Speaker 1: It you're gonna do. IT i want, To, YEAH i,

751
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,800
Mean i'll be flying into base. Camp i'm going to

752
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,079
like hike to the base. Camp he'll have someone drop

753
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:14,360
you at the. Top then it doesn't. Count then you

754
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,440
have to go under your own power up and. Down

755
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,639
that's why it like. Stinks like people that die on the,

756
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:23,079
mountain like it doesn't count as a. Summit, yeah because

757
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:25,039
you have to come. Down, yeah you need to die

758
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,840
in the. Ground you have to be finished then, die

759
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,079
otherwise it. Doesn't they don't even, like, well he did

760
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:33,360
make it to the, top but he died halfway, down

761
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,119
so he didn't.

762
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:36,679
Speaker 2: Summit, oh back to the.

763
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,559
Speaker 3: Timeline It's april twenty second of nineteen eighty, One bell

764
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,519
two six helicopter conducted a concentrated search Over East buttress

765
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:48,119
and adjacent glacier. Corridors this was chartered From alaska. Helicopters

766
00:42:48,159 --> 00:42:51,400
it was a three hour flight with again Rangers robinson And,

767
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,239
covington and it focused on crevass and avalanche.

768
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: Shoots and they did.

769
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 3: Find at this time an old camp site that was

770
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,360
identified at approximately seventy two hundred feet and it was

771
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,840
consistent With waterman's travel. Timeline, however no tracks or evidence

772
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,000
continued beyond that. Point it's now Late april nineteen eighty.

773
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,400
One so after more than ten aerial missions involving The National,

774
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,440
PARK Us army And Alaska Alpine Rescue, group with no confirmed,

775
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,760
findings the active search operation was. Suspended johnny was listed

776
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,880
as missing and presumed, dead and no remains were ever.

777
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:35,159
Recovered SO i have a couple Cases i'm just going to.

778
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Highlight So dnali has a very long track record of

779
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,880
climbers dying or not, dying but going missing on the park.

780
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:45,559
Speaker 2: On the.

781
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: Mountain i'm just going to highlight two of the more

782
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,239
well known, ones just, briefly and then we'll get into.

783
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,400
THEORIES i think, Theories and this one is pretty clear.

784
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:53,639
Speaker 2: Cut.

785
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 3: Ye so the next case was not too long after.

786
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,119
This it was nineteen eighty. Four it was a gentleman

787
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:05,679
by the name Of Naomi. Umura he was A japanese,

788
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,119
gentleman and In february of nineteen eighty, four he attempted

789
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,599
something no one had ever done, before a solo winter

790
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:16,639
ascent Of, denali and he was not. Reckless he was

791
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:19,440
one of the most accomplished endurance adventures in the. World

792
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,840
he was the first person to reach The North pole,

793
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,800
alone and a climber who had already Soloed denali once

794
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,599
before in summer. Conditions this time he chose The West

795
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:32,679
buttress in the dead of. Winter so On february, twelfth

796
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:35,880
on his forty third, birthday he reached the summit late

797
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,719
in the. Evening he radioed, afterward reporting success and saying

798
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,119
he had begun his. Descent he radioed, afterward reporting success

799
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,920
and saying he begun his. Descent the next, day Of february,

800
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,119
thirteenth he made one final brief radio. Contact he sounded

801
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:50,800
exhausted but. Calm he asked to be picked up At

802
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,239
Pace camp two days. Later that pickup never. HAPPENED a

803
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,280
severe winter storm moved in almost. Immediately search flights were

804
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,639
sporadic and. Dangerous at one, point a pilot believed he

805
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,599
saw him near a snow cave high on the, route

806
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:09,079
but no confirmation was ever. Possible ground searchers later found

807
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:12,920
evidence that he had been moving snow caves equipment, supplies

808
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,559
but never found him despite weeks of searching by park

809
00:45:15,639 --> 00:45:19,960
rangers And japanese climbing. Teams he vanished Somewhere ontanali during his,

810
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:23,440
descent and his body has never been. Recovered and he

811
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:25,800
didn't fall on the way, up he didn't disappear during

812
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,199
an ambitious. Push he summitted and then the mountain kind

813
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,960
of just took. Him so this was a case of

814
00:45:33,159 --> 00:45:36,760
a guy, who like you, Said, joe he made it up, there,

815
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:40,320
radioed they know he made, it and he actually was

816
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,239
halfway down and radioed again and was just two days

817
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,599
away from his pickup and then. Disappeared so that happened

818
00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:51,360
in nineteen eighty WHAT i say in nineteen eighty, Four

819
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,039
then just recently in twenty twenty, three we had a

820
00:45:55,119 --> 00:46:01,320
pair of, Climbers eli mckel And ifuin A wall APOLOGIZE

821
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:07,559
i said that. Wrong but nearly forty years after the

822
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:11,280
first two cases we, discussed this time this was in

823
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,960
the air of satellite COMMUNICATIONS gps tracking modern search and.

824
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,000
Rescues in Early may of twenty twenty, Three eli and

825
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:23,559
A wall were climbing in The Ruth gorge, area attempting

826
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:27,199
the west ridge Of Moose's. Tooth it's a, steep technical

827
00:46:27,199 --> 00:46:31,039
peak just south of d nali's main. Area both were experienced.

828
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:34,159
Alpinists they were moving fast and. Light they were planning

829
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:36,320
a single day. Push on the morning Of may, fifth

830
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,000
they sent a routine satellite check in to a, friend

831
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:41,800
stating that they were starting their. Climb this would be

832
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,599
the last message they'd ever. Seen when they failed to

833
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:48,239
check in, again park rangers launched immediate. Search helicopters located

834
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,800
their base. Camp followed ski tracks towards the, route and

835
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,280
then boot, tracks and then boot tracks and climbing. Higher

836
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,159
those tracks ended abruptly at the crown of a small slab.

837
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,360
Avalanche below that, point scattered gear was, visible ice, tools

838
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,079
a helmet stretched down a massive fall line into heavily crevassed.

839
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:12,000
Train for, days the rangers conducted aerial searchers and short

840
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,400
haul insertions into the runout. Zone nothing more was, found

841
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,679
whether deteriorated snowfall again erased. Evidence officials eventually concluded that

842
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,840
both climbers were likely swept off the ridge by an.

843
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,880
Avalanche and carried into train where survival and recovery would be.

844
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,800
Impossible and, unfortunately these two were not lost because of

845
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,960
poor planning and they were not in. Experienced they just

846
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:36,679
simply were at the wrong place at the wrong. Time,

847
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:41,400
yeah and most likely an avalanche got this pair of,

848
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,440
climbers but it just highlights the dangers Of. Denali we

849
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:51,920
have a case of four very experienced climbers going. MISSING

850
00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:55,440
i have a feeling most people that go here are

851
00:47:55,519 --> 00:48:00,239
either completely experienced or therewith Ex like WHEN i IF i,

852
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,880
Go i'm gonna go on an expedition team WHERE i

853
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,400
might be the one who knows the, least But i'm

854
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,880
not gonna be in charge of. Anything, Yeah i'm gonna

855
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,079
be listening AND i can you, Know i'm in, shape

856
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:11,960
oh my, Weight But i'm gonna be doing exactly what

857
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,559
everyone tells me to do and not questioning.

858
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: Anything. YEAH i think.

859
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 3: So now he's unique in that it's so hard to

860
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,119
get to that is gonna be a deterrent for ninety

861
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:22,800
nine percent of the people that want to do.

862
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, no one's just like gonna be like wake

863
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:26,320
up on A, Sunday but LIKE i Think i'm gonna

864
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:26,440
go To.

865
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:29,119
Speaker 2: Danalian, yeah no one just does.

866
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 3: That it's it's even if you tried to do, that

867
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,280
it would be for most of us ormies too hard

868
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,360
to do on your.

869
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,599
Speaker 2: Own so we'll get into theories real.

870
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 3: QUICKLY i think everyone listening probably knows what, happened but

871
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:48,559
the most likely For johnny is probably an unroped crevass

872
00:48:48,639 --> 00:48:51,760
fall on the Northwest fork Of Ruth. GLACIER i wanted

873
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,920
to scream that the entire, episode he was last seen

874
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,519
traveling unroped through heavily crevass.

875
00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:01,159
Speaker 2: Train he was pulling a sled with. Him increases balance and.

876
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,079
Speaker 3: Stability it can act like an anchor if something. Happens

877
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,800
The Northwest fork Of Ruth glacier is one of the

878
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,559
most complex crevass fields in the.

879
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:14,119
Speaker 2: WORLD a great example of, This i'm trying to remember

880
00:49:14,119 --> 00:49:14,559
the name of the.

881
00:49:14,599 --> 00:49:17,519
Speaker 1: Movie it's the movie where a giant polar of vortex

882
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:20,400
comes down and like freezes most Of North america the

883
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:20,840
day after.

884
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: Tomorrow it might be that one.

885
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,199
Speaker 1: When they're walking across the snow and they're actually over

886
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,119
the mall and say after, tomorrow, okay that is, Yeah

887
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,599
and they're pulling the sled and they fall through that's

888
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:34,199
like exactly what it would be. Like, yeah it wouldn't

889
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:37,440
be a. Mall it's just an open thing in the.

890
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: Glacier, yeah and maybe you are able to get across

891
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,960
the snow, bridge but then it breaks for your sled

892
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,639
all of a. Sudden now the sled is an anchor and.

893
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: It's like a.

894
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: Puller example of they thought they were on solid ground

895
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,360
and they're, like actually one hundred feet just on like thin.

896
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: Glass. Yeah now imagine there's no, glass just.

897
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:58,199
Speaker 3: Snow, yeah and Avoid, Yes SO i think this is

898
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,639
the most likely. Theory and of, course with every one

899
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:03,079
of our disappearances we ever, covered there's always a major

900
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:05,559
storm that. Hits there was a major storm the day

901
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:10,079
after he, left which erased any tracks of where he.

902
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:14,639
Went and this is supported by the fact that none

903
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,400
of his equipment was ever. Found so in that more

904
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,280
recent example of the unfortunate hiker climbers that were swept

905
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,840
away by an, avalanche searchers found all kinds of gear

906
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,679
kind of in the avalanche, zone so they kind of

907
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,960
knew what. Happened in this, case we have no, no

908
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:34,880
he didn't carry a lot of, gear but there was

909
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,239
no gear, Phone so that supports that he might have

910
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,079
had a sudden fall into a crevasse and just all

911
00:50:40,119 --> 00:50:43,239
his gear and sled went. In and like we've, Said joe,

912
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,840
said if he had fallen into a deep crevass while

913
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,800
solo and, unroped there would be no evidence on the,

914
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,960
surface no noise, heard and no realistic chance of any.

915
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:56,519
Recovery very likely theory kind of ties into the first one.

916
00:50:56,559 --> 00:50:59,000
Avalanche we don't need to really go into, that but

917
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,760
we had an ample of two climbers that were swept

918
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:02,199
away by an.

919
00:51:02,199 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: Avalanche probably what could have happened To.

920
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: Johnny SO i feel like there's enough people in the

921
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:10,280
area that were seeing him and reporting him they would

922
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,519
have known if an avalanche.

923
00:51:11,559 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: Happened, yeah but it was a small. One, yeah and

924
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,360
there was avalanche activity at the. Time but, yeah you're

925
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,239
right either, way a small, avalanche even if it got him,

926
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,239
falling it could have knocked him into a. Crevass, Yes

927
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,719
so avalanche is a possible. Theory another likely theory that

928
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,320
maybe ties into these is a fatal exposure after. Immobilization

929
00:51:31,519 --> 00:51:35,039
so this theory just goes he basically survived the initial,

930
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,960
incident but because he didn't have a tent sleeping, bag

931
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:43,480
he wasn't able to get, shelter and maybe if he

932
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:46,159
was injured, enough he couldn't dig effectively in the, snow

933
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,960
melt snow for, water maintain core. Temperatures any minor injury

934
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:55,079
could immobilize you in almost certain. Death in these conditions less.

935
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:57,400
Likely we just got to mention. Him so there might

936
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,239
have been psychological deterioration leading to a face decision making.

937
00:52:01,639 --> 00:52:04,840
INCIDENT i don't think this is too, likely even though

938
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,440
he did have a history of mental health. ISSUES i

939
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,280
think he was very determined to summit this, mountain and

940
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,480
he was very well planned and. Experienced and this gets

941
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,320
discussed a lot around because this pretty old. Case and

942
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,320
they bring up the note that he left the last.

943
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:26,280
Kiss he was right Before april, First he was articulating

944
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,320
a clear, Out he described a food, timeline he discussed

945
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,400
exit op options to other climbers in the. Area none of,

946
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,239
that to, me sounds like an extremely deteriorating mental. Condition

947
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,840
it sounds like he was perfectly. Coherent was like he

948
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,239
absolutely knew what he was planning to. Do he seemed, Okay,

949
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,480
YEAH i, Agree SO i don't think that's a likely.

950
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:52,800
Theory and then there's the other couple theories intentional. SUICIDE

951
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:54,320
i don't think. SO i don't think.

952
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,599
Speaker 1: So it just sounds like, it JUST i, mean in

953
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:58,800
this type of, mountain in that type of, Condition, yeah

954
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,880
solo doesn't matter how well prepared you, are if you

955
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,480
have one little, Thing just as we, said it's just

956
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:05,119
it's too.

957
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,079
Speaker 3: Bad it's. Unforgiving and then the most unlikely ist feul.

958
00:53:08,119 --> 00:53:11,760
PLAY i mean there's barely anyone out. There, yeah nobody's

959
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,960
following you out to Denalate a to do. SOMETHING i

960
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,599
mean that would be The, yeah so that'd be the

961
00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:19,239
place to do.

962
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: It it would be the place to do. It but why,

963
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,039
yeah you'd have the time that. Perfectly, yeah, Yeah I'm

964
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,280
i'm a on just like a crevasse or potentially tiny

965
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,760
avalanche sweeping him into a crevass.

966
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,079
Speaker 3: Or it was like the little slab avalanches that knocked,

967
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:36,719
him knocked his footing off and then he.

968
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: Fell. Yeah, yeah, NO i.

969
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,639
Speaker 3: Think, sadly based on the, train based on the other

970
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,639
cases we briefly, COVERED i think that gentleman From japan

971
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,119
probably similar. Scenario, yeah AND i don't you, know because

972
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:52,280
of all his remains and gear will never be.

973
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,159
Speaker 2: Found, yeah THAT'S.

974
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: I remember seeing a documentary on crevasses and the guy

975
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,559
was telling a story ABOUT i could hear his friend

976
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,599
and it haunts him, Still i'm sure because he didn't make.

977
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:05,519
It they couldn't find him, yea and they just heard

978
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:07,239
him yelling for, help and it's like you just have

979
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,519
to be like there's literally nothing you can, do, no.

980
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: Which is just.

981
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:15,039
Speaker 1: Terrifying so, yeah so we'll leave you on. That thanks

982
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:17,480
again for tuning into our. Show we appreciate you all

983
00:54:17,519 --> 00:54:20,119
for listening and sharing locations unknown with your friends and.

984
00:54:20,159 --> 00:54:23,159
Family be sure to like and follow us On, Facebook, Instagram,

985
00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:26,000
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986
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:28,440
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987
00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:31,280
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988
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,599
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989
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,760
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990
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,800
and additional shows for paid customers. Only and, lastly when

991
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,320
enjoying the beauty of, nature whether, backpacking, camping or simply

992
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,960
taking a, walk always remember to leave no. Trace thanks

993
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,360
and we will see you all next.

994
00:54:50,400 --> 00:55:02,119
Speaker 2: Time La

995
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: Bas