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<v Speaker 1>From the historic Memart Parks in Los Angeles, California.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Tavis Smiley and I'm so glad to see you

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<v Speaker 2>and me Ah back in stride again. Before we get

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<v Speaker 2>started with today's show, I mean not you to follow

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<v Speaker 2>me on Facebook and Instagram at the Real Tavis Smiley

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<v Speaker 2>and get updates on x that's formerly Twitter at Tavis Smiley.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, should you miss any product today's program

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<v Speaker 2>or want to catch up on previous shows, you can

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<v Speaker 2>always visit the Tavismileyshow dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the Tavismightyshow dot com or.

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<v Speaker 2>Wherever you get your podcast and listen to the Tavismodley

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<v Speaker 2>podcast version of this live program at your leisure.

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<v Speaker 1>Another great show on tap for you today.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Thursday, so we'll check in with doctor Cornell West

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<v Speaker 2>on the top side.

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<v Speaker 1>Of our two as per usual.

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<v Speaker 2>On the b side of our too, a new study

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<v Speaker 2>from cal Berkeley which finds that DEI policies resulted in

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<v Speaker 2>no financial penalties for companies that did not abandon their

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<v Speaker 2>commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion. So for all that talk,

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<v Speaker 2>ain't nobody been harmed by not abandoning This corrective program

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<v Speaker 2>called de e I, and we'll talk to UC Brooklyn

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Jacob Grumbach uh uh on the backside. Uh and

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<v Speaker 2>I should say in in our two there you go

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<v Speaker 2>get it right, Doctor West top side, it's it's been

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<v Speaker 2>a long week. Dr West on the top side of

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<v Speaker 2>our two. Professor Jacob Grumback on the b side of

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<v Speaker 2>our two.

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<v Speaker 3>And then in our third hour, I'm just crazy, vow you.

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<v Speaker 4>You make me feel so good. I am about to

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<v Speaker 4>rouse my word, trying to find.

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<v Speaker 1>Any way I can see here next to.

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<v Speaker 4>You word I found rely fund follow to satisfied Cray.

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<v Speaker 1>Say that you be Mody.

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<v Speaker 2>Common Lundy was named the twenty twenty six National Endowment

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<v Speaker 2>for the.

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<v Speaker 1>Arts jazz Master.

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<v Speaker 2>This year, we will celebrate Common Lundy when she comes

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<v Speaker 2>live in studio and our third and final Holaday to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about this high honor and her new album, It's

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<v Speaker 2>called Notes from the Wine Cellar. Carmen Lundy twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six Jazz Master comes live in studio today in our

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<v Speaker 2>third hour.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm looking forward to that. But in this first hour.

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<v Speaker 2>When we come forward, we'll talk politics and more with

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<v Speaker 2>Ztail Media cognist Justin berg On.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll start with if you're not for me with the tail,

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<v Speaker 1>We'll let Justin first tell you about ztail. You can

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<v Speaker 1>look it up.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great online site for news and information. So

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<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about zatel to begin with. And there's so

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<v Speaker 2>many issues to get to. Uh, this was yet another

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<v Speaker 2>history making primary week, So when we come forward, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>start by talking about how these progressive wins, to Justin's

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<v Speaker 2>mind at least, are shaping the primaries this year. You're

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<v Speaker 2>listening to Tavis smileing. Just burg On is the Tel's

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<v Speaker 2>media comminists. Please to have him on the start our

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<v Speaker 2>program today, Justin, how.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 5>I'm doing fine? How you doing?

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<v Speaker 2>If I complain, i'd being in great. I am doing

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<v Speaker 2>well and pleased to have you on the program. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>me about ztel for those not for me with the

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<v Speaker 2>with the platform, let's let's start there and we'll we'll

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<v Speaker 2>push forward.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I would say the TEO is what you would

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<v Speaker 6>call an unapologetically progressive news site, but still based in fact,

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<v Speaker 6>it was started by Mehdi Hassan, as your audience may

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<v Speaker 6>know him from his show on MSNBC and Al Jazeera,

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<v Speaker 6>and it's been growing quite a bit over the past

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<v Speaker 6>year and a half and we've broken quite a bit

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<v Speaker 6>of news, made quite a bit of news, and I

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<v Speaker 6>believe we'll keep doing that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>What's it mean for a Zeteo. I know what it

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<v Speaker 2>means for our station here in La. What's it mean

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<v Speaker 2>for Zetello in a moment like this to be unapologetically

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<v Speaker 2>progressive unpacked?

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<v Speaker 5>That?

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<v Speaker 1>For me?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I think.

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<v Speaker 6>At this moment, when when you have a the return

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<v Speaker 6>of a Trump administration, but a more vindictive Trump administration,

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<v Speaker 6>that's that's really trying to put its foot on the neck.

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<v Speaker 5>Of the media to begin with that.

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<v Speaker 6>You need you need news outlets that are going to

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<v Speaker 6>provide a different perspective but also aggressively pushed back against that.

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<v Speaker 6>And I believe that's what we're doing here. You know,

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<v Speaker 6>not you know, having any fear of favor when it

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<v Speaker 6>comes to calling out what's going on in the day

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<v Speaker 6>to day part of our politics and society, whether it

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<v Speaker 6>has anything to do with you know, our wars overseas,

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<v Speaker 6>what's going on in Israel and Gaza, what's going here domestically,

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<v Speaker 6>what's going on with people's pocketbooks.

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<v Speaker 5>I think.

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<v Speaker 6>You need to have an independent style media that isn't

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<v Speaker 6>going to have a corporate over that's going to be,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, curring favor with this administration.

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<v Speaker 5>That's the way I look at it at least.

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<v Speaker 1>YEP. So we all saw the news a few days ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Just a couple more inside baseball media questions and we'll

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<v Speaker 2>get to the issues of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>We saw the news. We shall the news few days ago,

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<v Speaker 1>ABC suing the FCC.

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<v Speaker 2>And I sort of laughed at that when I saw that,

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<v Speaker 2>because here ABC now has grown a pair.

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<v Speaker 1>And they want to sue the FCC.

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<v Speaker 2>But wasn't ABC like one of the networks he started

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<v Speaker 2>us down in his rabbit hole in the first place.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, That's what I had remembered too. Back in December

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<v Speaker 6>twenty twenty four, right after Trump had won his second term.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, of the many media.

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<v Speaker 6>Organizations that Trump was taken aim at in suing even

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<v Speaker 6>before he got back in the office, was ABC News

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<v Speaker 6>over the George Stephanopolis interview with Nancy Mason, which Stephanopolis, uh,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, multiple times during that interview noted that Trump

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<v Speaker 6>had been adjudicated for rape, you know, found liable for that,

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<v Speaker 6>and that that was more of like a semantics argument,

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<v Speaker 6>to be honest. Even the judge had pointed that out,

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<v Speaker 6>and what he was referring to was the Eging Carol,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, the ruling in that, you know, where Trump

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<v Speaker 6>was found liable for sexual abuse in battery as well

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<v Speaker 6>as defaming eging Carrol, and you know, the sexual abuse

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<v Speaker 6>and rape, it's more on just you know, it's just

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<v Speaker 6>a figure of speech almost for the way that the

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<v Speaker 6>judge it pointed. I was like, you know, for all

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<v Speaker 6>intents and purposes, sexual abuse is rape, but you know,

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<v Speaker 6>Stephanopolis has said rape. Immediately after that, Trump decided he

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<v Speaker 6>was going to sue ABC News for defamation once he

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<v Speaker 6>wins office. Disney decides they don't want to have this

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<v Speaker 6>hanging over them anymore. It's time to maybe play low

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<v Speaker 6>ball with the new administration. So they decided to just

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<v Speaker 6>settle with him for fifteen million dollars to Trump's presidential

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<v Speaker 6>library and a million dollars at Trump's lawyers.

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<v Speaker 5>So then he gets to.

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<v Speaker 6>Win, and then you know, they even issued essentially an

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<v Speaker 6>apology over what Stephanopolis had said. So I remember at

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<v Speaker 6>that time writing or speaking to different First Amendment experts,

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<v Speaker 6>journalism professors, media executives on how you know Disney by

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<v Speaker 6>doing this they were opening a door for a greater

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<v Speaker 6>chilling effect on freedom of speech and press that this

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<v Speaker 6>wasn't this was going to really allow Trump to go

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<v Speaker 6>forward and you know, wage his full fledged war against

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<v Speaker 6>the media, specifically the media he doesn't like that, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>And that's exactly what it happened. I mean, we saw

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<v Speaker 6>so many different lawsuits harassment of media organizations and you know,

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<v Speaker 6>attempts to bring them to heal or you had capitulation

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<v Speaker 6>by other outlets or media owners, whether it be the

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<v Speaker 6>Washington Post or the Los Angeles Times, where they decided

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<v Speaker 6>where they decided that they were going to push their

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<v Speaker 6>newspapers into a more conservative friendly direction. And then we

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<v Speaker 6>also had you know, we see the situation that happened

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<v Speaker 6>with Paramount and CBS News and how that they essentially

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<v Speaker 6>turned CBS News into like a Fox News Light after

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<v Speaker 6>David Allison purchased Paramount, but even prior to that, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>to make sure that that merger went through between Paramounts Skidands,

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<v Speaker 6>the old owners made sure to settle a meritless lawsuit

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<v Speaker 6>with CBS News. So yes, long way around, ye Disney

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<v Speaker 6>did start this.

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<v Speaker 2>What's amazing about it is not just that they caved

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<v Speaker 2>and paid Trump almost twenty million dollars over the issue

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<v Speaker 2>that you raised earlier about Stephanopolis.

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<v Speaker 1>They paid him all that money.

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<v Speaker 2>Then then you fast forward some months, the administration goes in.

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump goes in on Jimmy Kimmel. What does ABC do?

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<v Speaker 2>They sideline Jimmy Kimmel, and everybody's up in arms about

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<v Speaker 2>what happens to Jimmy Kimmel. A few weeks later, a

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<v Speaker 2>few days later, whatever, Jimmy Kimmel comes back, and now

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<v Speaker 2>that same ABC is now soon the FCC overholding onto

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<v Speaker 2>its license.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are number of ways to read this. ABC

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<v Speaker 1>a long time to get here.

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<v Speaker 2>The other way to read it is that you know

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<v Speaker 2>when their license is on the line again, ABC finds

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<v Speaker 2>a spine and now they are suing the FCC. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to study this too long. I guess the

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<v Speaker 2>question is if I'll move on whether or not this

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<v Speaker 2>is literally about ABC trying to save its license, or

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<v Speaker 2>whether this is an example of a media network after

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<v Speaker 2>cow towing and bowing the knee bending the need of

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump has again finally reversed its course.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I would also say.

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<v Speaker 6>This is coming after they've seen the situation with a

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<v Speaker 6>number of different law firms that decided not to bend

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<v Speaker 6>the knee to Donald Trump over certain issues. I think

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<v Speaker 6>they were like whether it's DEI or a myriad of

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<v Speaker 6>issues of where Trump had said that you know, they

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<v Speaker 6>had done great damage and they needed to, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>provide his administration with hundreds of millions of dollars of

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<v Speaker 6>free work, and the ones that decided, know, what you're

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<v Speaker 6>doing is essentially unconstitutional, but you don't have the law

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<v Speaker 6>on your side, and then his executive orders were tossed out.

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<v Speaker 6>His attempts to push these law firms to you know,

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<v Speaker 6>bend the knee, as.

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<v Speaker 5>You said, didn't work.

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<v Speaker 6>Once you see that happening, you're like, wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 6>this administration where he may be a little more toothless

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<v Speaker 6>than we thought.

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<v Speaker 5>And maybe we were a little.

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<v Speaker 6>Bit hasty in trying to capitulate and acquiesce to him.

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<v Speaker 6>And I think that's part of what's going on here.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, you obviously, yes, they're going way too far.

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<v Speaker 6>They're you know, they're taken an authoritarian, almost fascistic push

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<v Speaker 6>against these media organizations, specifically against Disney, which they are

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<v Speaker 6>doing retaliatory. They are doing a retaliatory camp pain, as

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<v Speaker 6>they say in their lawsuit, because you know, they want

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<v Speaker 6>to make the view either go away or.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, be more Trump friendly.

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<v Speaker 6>And they want Jimmy Kimmel to no longer be there

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<v Speaker 6>because he says being things about Trump. So you know,

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<v Speaker 6>those are things that are going on there. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 6>is it about them trying to say their license? Sure?

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<v Speaker 6>Is it?

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<v Speaker 5>You know they're standing up for the First Amendment.

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<v Speaker 6>Maybe, but I think a lot of it is now

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<v Speaker 6>maybe we didn't need to have any fear against them

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<v Speaker 6>because they're also they're seeing what's going on in all these.

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<v Speaker 5>Cases in the courts.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, the thing is the Trump administration is losing

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<v Speaker 6>tons of cases in the courts.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to just remind this audience.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried to a moment ago at least remind the

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<v Speaker 2>audience of the ABC backstory. And I asked, justin a

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<v Speaker 2>moment ago, whether or not this is just ABC trying

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<v Speaker 2>to save their hide or whether not ABC has found

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<v Speaker 2>its spine. The reality is that this is not about

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<v Speaker 2>ABC protecting First Amendment rights.

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<v Speaker 1>That is what this is about.

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<v Speaker 2>This is about ABC, as I said, try to hold

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<v Speaker 2>on its license. So when you consider the backstory, and

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<v Speaker 2>that ABC is the network that started us down this

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<v Speaker 2>rabbit hole.

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<v Speaker 1>Now they're s in the FCC, and people.

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<v Speaker 2>Are reporting this as if ABC is leading the charge

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<v Speaker 2>against the administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Stop it, stop it, stop it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not, I repeat, about protecting our First Amendment rights.

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<v Speaker 2>They could have done that a year or two ago.

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<v Speaker 2>This is about ABC try and hold on to its

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<v Speaker 2>broadcast license. I'm done with it, but I want to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that people understand that particular distinction. As I

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<v Speaker 2>pushed toward a conversation about this week's primaries and how

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<v Speaker 2>these progressive wins, to Justin's mind, are shaping the primary

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<v Speaker 2>season and what that means for the midterms and beyond,

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<v Speaker 2>since he mentioned Donald Trump and his sexual assault situation.

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<v Speaker 2>Not sure if you've heard this news, but there's a

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<v Speaker 2>new story out about this today. FBI agents execute did

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<v Speaker 2>search wants targeting former Democratic Representative Eric Swalwell and have

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<v Speaker 2>seized his electronic devices. One of the wants was executed

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<v Speaker 2>after Swallwell landed at San Francisco inter National Airport. The

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<v Speaker 2>second targeted his residence in d C. And so they

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<v Speaker 2>are seizing devices, smart devices from Eric Swalwall.

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<v Speaker 1>Now why does that matter? Because earlier this week, as

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of fact, do you have a winter in

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<v Speaker 1>that race?

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<v Speaker 5>Yet?

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't even check if I came on the air yet.

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody tell me right quick.

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<v Speaker 2>Earlier this week, the race was too close to call

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<v Speaker 2>in the special election here in California to replace Eric Swalwell.

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<v Speaker 2>You know the story of Eric Walwell, longtime member of Congress,

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump nemesis running for governor in California. Sexual allegations

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<v Speaker 2>come up, he has to drop out of the race.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the front runner at this point. As front run,

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<v Speaker 2>he has to drop out of the race. And so

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<v Speaker 2>now sometimes you think you drop out of a race

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<v Speaker 2>and your problems go away.

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<v Speaker 1>Not really. He dropped out.

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<v Speaker 2>His career has completely imploded, and the FBI is now

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<v Speaker 2>seizing his electronic devices.

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<v Speaker 1>Again.

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<v Speaker 2>We expected that because again he was a nemesis of

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump. So Trump's FBI is going after Eric S. Walwell,

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<v Speaker 2>and we shall see how this plays out. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>just fascinating that they seize his devices in the same

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<v Speaker 2>week that there's a special election to replace him in Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know again whether or not there's a

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<v Speaker 2>winner declared in that race. Hit somebody would tell me

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get to you as soon as I know it.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, that was on Tuesday of this week, along

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<v Speaker 2>with other primaries that happened across the country. So what

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<v Speaker 2>are these progressive wins? These DSA wins just insane to

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<v Speaker 2>you about the way our politics are being reshaped, redefined.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't like those words, choose your own.

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<v Speaker 6>I think it's at the very least it's redefining what

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<v Speaker 6>Democratic voters want now that maybe that they they're rarely

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<v Speaker 6>embracing many of these progressive values that these candidates are

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<v Speaker 6>are pushing. I think that's part of it. But I

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<v Speaker 6>think the main thing that's happening here is what they

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<v Speaker 6>want are fighters, right. They want people that aren't.

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<v Speaker 5>For lack of a bear word, like squishes.

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<v Speaker 6>People that you know that they don't want the same old,

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<v Speaker 6>same old that just that it had lost two elections

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<v Speaker 6>to Donald Trump, that lost the House, that lost the Senate. Right,

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<v Speaker 6>they don't want, you know, that, that style of politics anymore.

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<v Speaker 6>So they're looking for something more. And this is all

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<v Speaker 6>happening as you know, we are dealing with a growing

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<v Speaker 6>economic problem that that seems to be looming even more

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<v Speaker 6>in the distance.

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<v Speaker 5>When it the economic inequality. You see gen z.

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<v Speaker 6>Uh having a worse you know, lifestyle than than their predecessors.

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<v Speaker 6>So they're wanting change and you look for change ages

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<v Speaker 6>and this is why DSA is doing well now. At

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<v Speaker 6>the same end, I would point out that you know

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<v Speaker 6>a lot of DSA candidates aren't winning their primaries, but

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<v Speaker 6>they're they're putting up you know, heavy challenges. So so

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<v Speaker 6>I think, you know this, What do I see here

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<v Speaker 6>is again they want fighters. They want people that won't

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<v Speaker 6>just you know, try to get along, to play along

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<v Speaker 6>and all that.

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<v Speaker 2>To your point about wanting fighters, just some new data

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<v Speaker 2>out here in California. This program is heard across the country,

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, uh and as I always say, for syndication,

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<v Speaker 2>national syndication, I'm grateful. But we're based in LA and

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<v Speaker 2>there are a couple of major races in LA.

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<v Speaker 1>In California. People are watching, obviously the governor's race.

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<v Speaker 2>It was quite a journey, but Javio Versara and Steve

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<v Speaker 2>Hilton are going to go at it in November. And

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<v Speaker 2>here in LA there was a big mayor's debate last night,

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<v Speaker 2>the first of the season. Everybody watching this mayor's race

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<v Speaker 2>to see whether this DSA candidate, city council Woman Nythia

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<v Speaker 2>Rahman can unseat the incumbent mayor, Karen Bass, longtime mainstream

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<v Speaker 2>establishment Democrat. So we're going to see what happens here

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<v Speaker 2>in California. There's a new data out here in the

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<v Speaker 2>Golden State which suggest that most voters feel favorably toward

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<v Speaker 2>progressive candidates with less enthusiasm for mainstream Democrats. That's new

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<v Speaker 2>data that most California voters favorably look toward or look

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<v Speaker 2>at progressive political campaigns and candidates with less enthusiasm for

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<v Speaker 2>mainstream Democrats. I believe that mainstream Democrats. I believe that

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<v Speaker 2>establishment Democrats in this cycle and even beyond are in trouble. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if this trend holds, the question is what this means

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<v Speaker 2>for the demomocratic primaries come twenty twenty eight. If this

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<v Speaker 2>trajectory continues. If this trend holds, we'll see what it

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<v Speaker 2>means in November. But if Democrats across the country, even

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<v Speaker 2>beyond California, are looking for fighters, They're looking for folks

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<v Speaker 2>who are more progressive, They're turned on by the message

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<v Speaker 2>of these DSA candidates. What does that mean for the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of primary season we're going to have when people

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<v Speaker 2>start announcing they're running for president, if you're an establishment Democrat.

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<v Speaker 1>Should you just stay home.

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<v Speaker 2>Not even not even foul papers to get in the race,

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<v Speaker 2>because that seems to be where the party is headed.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about that to do more than we come

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<v Speaker 2>forward here on Tavis Smile. Indeed, Justin berg go On,

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<v Speaker 2>who is the media cognist for the TAO, in our

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<v Speaker 2>first hour of pushing toward our two, which will kick

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<v Speaker 2>off for Doctor Cornell West as it does every Monday

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<v Speaker 2>and Thursday. Can't wait to get the doc. But Justin

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<v Speaker 2>is our guessing the first start kicking us off, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad to have him. I have a colleague here

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<v Speaker 2>in La on my station, Justin, who hosts an amazing,

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant relationship show every night.

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<v Speaker 1>His name is Zoe, and Zoe is a solo host.

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<v Speaker 2>But he's fond of saying because he has a great

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<v Speaker 2>playlist every night, and he's fond of saying that my

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<v Speaker 2>playlist is my co host. That's Zoe Williams. My playlist

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<v Speaker 2>is my co host. My version of that is that

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<v Speaker 2>my audience is my research team. My audience is my

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<v Speaker 2>research team. I asked for information and low and behold,

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<v Speaker 2>within two minutes, fifty five folk around the country are

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<v Speaker 2>texting me the information or emailing me or posting on

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<v Speaker 2>social media the information that I've asked for. So I

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<v Speaker 2>asked moments ago, what's happening in the Eric Swalwell race,

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<v Speaker 2>and everybody started sitting me information.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you all. But I do that all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>If I'm on the air and I need something right quick,

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<v Speaker 2>I just shout it out and everybody gets to me

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<v Speaker 2>right away with the data. So this fourteenth Congressional District

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<v Speaker 2>here in California, Eric Swalwell's former seat, that race is

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<v Speaker 2>still too close to call. We are told that there

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<v Speaker 2>are only sixty two percent of the votes that have

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<v Speaker 2>been counted. And so the race at the moment again

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<v Speaker 2>stay Senator Aisha Wahab is backed by the Democratic Party.

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<v Speaker 2>She leads the race at the moment fifty one to

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<v Speaker 2>forty nine percent over Melissa Hernandez, who is supported by

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<v Speaker 2>a Pax Main super pac. So here you have another

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<v Speaker 2>race at the moment. Stay with me, I'm gonna I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna connect some dots here, or if my preacher says, stay.

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<v Speaker 1>Withhi me, I'm going somewhere with this I'm going somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>with this.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to connect these two things up in a second. So,

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<v Speaker 2>in this race of game to replace Eric Swalwell in

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<v Speaker 2>Congress fourteen Congression of dis Security in California, his campaign

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<v Speaker 2>imploded while running for governor, Senator Stay Senator Aisha Wahab

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<v Speaker 2>is backed again by the Democratic Party. She sits right

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<v Speaker 2>now in fifty one percent, and Melissa Hernandez, supported by

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<v Speaker 2>APAX Main super Pac, is trailing at forty nine percent.

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<v Speaker 2>We shall see how this all works out. Now, let

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<v Speaker 2>me connect these dots. As I said a moment ago,

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<v Speaker 2>I was reading a story today before coming on the

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<v Speaker 2>air in the La Pergrim. Let me just read a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of paragraphs if I can of this story, and

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<v Speaker 2>then I'll get Justin's.

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<v Speaker 1>View on what I want to share here.

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<v Speaker 2>So the headline in the Li Progressive for this article reads,

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<v Speaker 2>a PAC money meets changing Electric In twenty twenty six midterms,

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<v Speaker 2>the Iran war, US support for Israel, and soaring campaign

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<v Speaker 2>spending are colliding with voters growing anxiety about gasoline, groceries

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<v Speaker 2>and the cost of living.

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<v Speaker 1>I could go on. I think you take the point

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<v Speaker 1>of the article.

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<v Speaker 2>This APAC money, they've been spending money, you know, so fastidiously,

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<v Speaker 2>so aggressively in campaigns all across this country. APAC's been

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<v Speaker 2>pouring in money, pouring in money in their track record

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<v Speaker 2>up until now has been pretty good. But now I

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<v Speaker 2>they've hit the skids, and this money is not necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>doing the trick, as I just evidence in the story

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<v Speaker 2>I share with you about how this race to replace

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<v Speaker 2>Eric Swalwell is playing out. But there are other examples

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<v Speaker 2>too many to list right now that we've discussed on

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<v Speaker 2>this program during this primary season where the APAC money

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<v Speaker 2>did not necessarily make the difference. And so this article

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<v Speaker 2>is pointing out that this APAC money has finally met

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<v Speaker 2>a changing electric and that the Iran war and that

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<v Speaker 2>the US is support for Israel soaring campaign spending, as

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<v Speaker 2>I said, are colliding with voters growing anxiety about gasoline groceries,

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<v Speaker 2>the cost of living, everyday issues, pocketbook issues, kitchen table

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<v Speaker 2>issues that matter to them, so that the APAC money

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<v Speaker 2>is not having the impact that it once had.

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<v Speaker 1>That's to set up justin take it and run with it.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I agree with that for the most part. I

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<v Speaker 6>mean what we saw in Michigan a couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 6>ago right where Abduel Sayid, I mean Hailey Stevens, his

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<v Speaker 6>primary opponent, had a ton of APAC money behind her.

425
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.680
<v Speaker 6>I believe I don't have the status right in front

426
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.079
<v Speaker 6>of me, but that he was outspent something like nine

427
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:06.680
<v Speaker 6>to one, maybe even more.

428
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Than I got. I got it right here, I got

429
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:08.640
<v Speaker 1>it right here.

430
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 2>There was sixty million dollars in outside spending in that race.

431
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>That's just the outside, the outside spinning number. Sixty million

432
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>dollars in outside spending money all for Hailey Stevens and

433
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:24.880
<v Speaker 2>abduce else I steel pulled that off.

434
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:25.799
<v Speaker 1>Please continue.

435
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:27.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And.

436
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.480
<v Speaker 6>It does feel as if almost a candidate being backed

437
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.000
<v Speaker 6>by a pack specifically, and a lot of that is

438
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.480
<v Speaker 6>going to depend on the electorate itself, but that it

439
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.079
<v Speaker 6>it backfires when you're seeing.

440
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.400
<v Speaker 5>That that that that candidate is backed by a pack.

441
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 6>It's what you have is the fact that Israel, the

442
00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:04.240
<v Speaker 6>war in God, the Israel's involvement with our war and Iran,

443
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 6>all of that, just the state of Israel itself has

444
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:13.799
<v Speaker 6>become extremely unpopular here in the United States, specifically among

445
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:19.000
<v Speaker 6>Democratic voters. So when APAX involved, and and we'll say

446
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.319
<v Speaker 6>will point out that APEX spending almost all the time

447
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.839
<v Speaker 6>with their super PACs are not bringing up Israel as

448
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:31.079
<v Speaker 6>an actual issue. When they're they're doing the ads for

449
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:35.519
<v Speaker 6>these for their candidates, it's usually just negative ads on

450
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:42.880
<v Speaker 6>the other candidate. But it ends up the you know,

451
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.839
<v Speaker 6>the electorates pretty spart and they can see who's who's

452
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 6>paying for this, even if it's not saying specifically.

453
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.880
<v Speaker 5>By APAX it and I'm getting reported.

454
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.440
<v Speaker 6>But when you're seeing all these negative ads, you're like, well,

455
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.119
<v Speaker 6>why are they spending so much against that specific candidate?

456
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.839
<v Speaker 6>And then you see that as a pack and you're like,

457
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 6>there's a reason for all that outside spending, and it

458
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.480
<v Speaker 6>it tends the back part, but not always.

459
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:13.480
<v Speaker 5>Now, I haven't looked.

460
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:23.000
<v Speaker 6>At, you know, Angie Nixon and Alexander Vidman in terms

461
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.319
<v Speaker 6>of what the spending is there, I mean, in terms

462
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:30.240
<v Speaker 6>of how APAC played there. My belief there was that

463
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.240
<v Speaker 6>Angie Nixon was just somebody that Florida Democrats, the normal

464
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:41.000
<v Speaker 6>Florida Democrats, understood who she was. Felt like she was

465
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:48.640
<v Speaker 6>an actual Floridian and buddy who had gained fame somehow

466
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:50.759
<v Speaker 6>somewhere else and was part of what you would just

467
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:55.680
<v Speaker 6>call resistance one point zero and they just rejected Alexander

468
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:57.839
<v Speaker 6>Vitman in that style of democratic politics.

469
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.200
<v Speaker 5>Despite the huge spending.

470
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:02.279
<v Speaker 1>She was she was on she was on this program.

471
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Any Nixon was on this program on primary day as

472
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 2>a matter of fact, or maybe the advance of primary day.

473
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.200
<v Speaker 2>I can't recall exactly what day she was on, but

474
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:12.720
<v Speaker 2>she was on this program a few days ago.

475
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh, and you know, talked about that.

476
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 2>So she was wildly outspent in that in that particular race,

477
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:21.519
<v Speaker 2>and there was a PAC money in that particular race.

478
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't have the exact numbers either, uh, but here again,

479
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Angie Nixon is another example in this primary season of

480
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.240
<v Speaker 2>people who beat back that a PAC money and won

481
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.079
<v Speaker 2>these races anyway. And so again the money that APAC

482
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>has been spending is not having the impact that it

483
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 2>once had. And I take Justin's point. When you see

484
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.440
<v Speaker 2>these A pack ads, they never say Israel, It's it's

485
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:44.519
<v Speaker 2>It's it is negative campaigning aimed at the person they're

486
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.279
<v Speaker 2>trying to defeat for the reasons they want to defeat them,

487
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.079
<v Speaker 2>but they never there's no truth in advertising, if I

488
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.759
<v Speaker 2>can use that phrase, there's no truth in advertising when

489
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.480
<v Speaker 2>you see an APAC commercial. So again I think people

490
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:57.359
<v Speaker 2>have figured it out, and they know what they're seeing

491
00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:58.920
<v Speaker 2>when they see it, whether or not it says brought

492
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.279
<v Speaker 2>to you by a pack, whether it mentions Israel or not.

493
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.559
<v Speaker 2>People have started to figure this out. But again they

494
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>got long money, but the victories are not coming as

495
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.640
<v Speaker 2>easily as they used to. When we come forward to

496
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.039
<v Speaker 2>that question that I posed, a moment agoe that we

497
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.359
<v Speaker 2>ain't really tackled yet, which is how all of this,

498
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>how these progressive wins, how these DSA wins are shaping

499
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.359
<v Speaker 2>the primary season that we are now in. But even

500
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.880
<v Speaker 2>more so, if this trend I repeat continues, If this

501
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 2>trajectory continues, what is what we are seeing right now

502
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:32.880
<v Speaker 2>say about the cons of folk who ought to stay

503
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:35.839
<v Speaker 2>home in twenty twenty eight. If this trend continues and

504
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 2>you are one of those mainstream establishment democrats, shouldn't you

505
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:41.119
<v Speaker 2>just not even fil papers. We'll talk about that when

506
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 2>we come forward on Tavis I's find justin Bergona as

507
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the Tales media columnists. So we've been talking here for

508
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a little bit now about the way this primary season

509
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:52.960
<v Speaker 2>is shaped up. This was yet another week of primaries

510
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:59.039
<v Speaker 2>in where Alaska and Florida and other places around the country.

511
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:01.759
<v Speaker 2>So these Tuesday primaries are I don't think we're quite

512
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 2>done yet, we're getting here. Matter of fact, I need

513
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:05.960
<v Speaker 2>to look at a calendar and see when we will

514
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.519
<v Speaker 2>be through the entire primary cycle, uh.

515
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 1>In this particular season.

516
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:13.359
<v Speaker 2>But it seems that every other Tuesday we're spending the

517
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.119
<v Speaker 2>day talking about races and states all across the country.

518
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.119
<v Speaker 2>And so we are seeing the way this thing is

519
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:20.960
<v Speaker 2>taking shape. And so the question, justin is how these

520
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 2>progressive wins, how these DSA wins, to your mind, are

521
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.559
<v Speaker 2>shaping our politics moving forward.

522
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

523
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:30.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, I would also say that.

524
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:35.440
<v Speaker 6>Some of these people, some of the progressives that are winning,

525
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:40.680
<v Speaker 6>aren't necessarily DSA, but they get like DSA adjacent or

526
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:44.200
<v Speaker 6>they get associated with it, like Abduell's yet actually is

527
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.200
<v Speaker 6>on DSA exactly. But you know, to to you know,

528
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 6>the Fox News is of the world that it doesn't matter,

529
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.559
<v Speaker 6>they're all gonna get painted with that brush. But uh,

530
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 6>and obviously, you know, both mainstream media and conservative press

531
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.240
<v Speaker 6>are are trying to.

532
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.559
<v Speaker 5>You know, use ds A as like a maejorative here.

533
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.319
<v Speaker 5>I've noticed that a lot on CNN as well, But

534
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:14.839
<v Speaker 5>you know.

535
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.200
<v Speaker 6>Getting past that, uh, just saying I would say, going

536
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.960
<v Speaker 6>with the overall you know, progressive candidate wins here, what

537
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:30.960
<v Speaker 6>does it say, Yeah, I'd say after the you know,

538
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:34.240
<v Speaker 6>after we get to the mid terms, we'll see how

539
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:40.400
<v Speaker 6>those candidates fare in comparison with you know, more mainstream candidates.

540
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.319
<v Speaker 5>Uh say abdu Wels.

541
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.799
<v Speaker 6>Right, he's going to be you know, in that Senate race,

542
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.680
<v Speaker 6>uh for you know, against Mike Rogers. If he wins,

543
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.640
<v Speaker 6>but he wins in more of a like a nail bitter,

544
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:58.799
<v Speaker 6>you know, will that be used, as you know, a

545
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:05.400
<v Speaker 6>way for mainstream Democrats in the overall political press to say, look,

546
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:13.759
<v Speaker 6>you know, progressivism and the DSA style candidates are they

547
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.880
<v Speaker 6>are an anchor on the Democrats here going forward. But

548
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.200
<v Speaker 6>if he were to win by the same margin or

549
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.640
<v Speaker 6>a larger margin against Rogers, who is a well known

550
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 6>candidate there in Michigan, somebody who served as a congressman

551
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:36.559
<v Speaker 6>before in his run for higher office there recently, then

552
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.400
<v Speaker 6>it kind of it takes that narrative away from them.

553
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:46.799
<v Speaker 6>But you know, to your point, what does that say

554
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:49.519
<v Speaker 6>for twenty twenty eight?

555
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:49.839
<v Speaker 5>Right?

556
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that thought We'll talk about twenty twenty eight when

557
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>we come forward on Tavis Smile, You're Indeed, I'll put

558
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 2>this same questionnaire dot twenty l West in about five

559
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.039
<v Speaker 2>minutes at the top of the second hour.

560
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Not the wish ran for president as an independent.

561
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious as to what this moment, this primary season

562
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>says to him about the kind of person that ought

563
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 2>to stay home and the kind of folks that need

564
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:12.160
<v Speaker 2>to show up in twenty twenty eight. We'll let doctor

565
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.319
<v Speaker 2>West opine on that in just a few moments. I

566
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>got two minutes left here just to Mike quick for you.

567
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>What's your read of what this primary season is for

568
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.680
<v Speaker 2>is for telling about what twenty twenty eight ought.

569
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.039
<v Speaker 1>To look like.

570
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:30.240
<v Speaker 6>Well, I think first off on my mind here is

571
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 6>that Gavin Newsom should not run. I know he will,

572
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:38.079
<v Speaker 6>but everything I've seen is that he just keeps falling

573
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 6>in voters' perspectives, and whether it's polls or prediction markets

574
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.880
<v Speaker 6>or any of that, it just seems that there's not

575
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.039
<v Speaker 6>going to be an appetite for.

576
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.160
<v Speaker 5>Somebody who's made that kind of name in politics.

577
00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:59.880
<v Speaker 6>And I'll be you know, as much as Gavin could

578
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 6>probably portray himself as a progressive, I don't think that

579
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.160
<v Speaker 6>there's going to be any appetite for him.

580
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:06.599
<v Speaker 5>Running.

581
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:12.159
<v Speaker 6>Same with folks that like Ram Emmanuel, probably Josh Shapiro

582
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.800
<v Speaker 6>in Pennsylvania. These are ones that their names have been floated.

583
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:18.280
<v Speaker 6>I just don't think that there's going to be any

584
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:23.559
<v Speaker 6>appetite there. Same with you know, Kamala I don't think

585
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 6>even though she might be the presumptive favor going in,

586
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.039
<v Speaker 6>you know, the thought is going to be that you know,

587
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:33.639
<v Speaker 6>she lost, and even if it's not totally you know,

588
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.920
<v Speaker 6>on her, because she was thrust into it late, there's

589
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.480
<v Speaker 6>not going to be that appetite to have somebody that

590
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:46.559
<v Speaker 6>represents the previous administration that lost the White House back

591
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:47.599
<v Speaker 6>to the Trump to.

592
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 5>Represent the Democrats in twenty twenty eight.

593
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 6>I do think it'll be somebody, you know, like an

594
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:01.679
<v Speaker 6>AOC that'll end up grabbing onto that nomination.

595
00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:02.480
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

596
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.920
<v Speaker 6>We've seen a lot of movement from John Ostoff lately,

597
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 6>who seems to understand the style of aggressive politics whilst

598
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 6>still portraying himself as a thoughtful person.

599
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.840
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna, no, I think, are the ones. No, it's

600
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.079
<v Speaker 1>gonna be fascinating, fascinating campaign.

601
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:27.679
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

602
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We gotta get past these mid terms first come November, Uh,

603
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 2>and see what the impact is, see whether or not

604
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.880
<v Speaker 2>these DSA and progressive candidates can actually win in November.

605
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.719
<v Speaker 2>The jury is still out on that. But once we

606
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.960
<v Speaker 2>get past that, but I think I think the die

607
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.360
<v Speaker 2>is set. The die has been cast rather uh, and

608
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 2>the frame is set. What people are interested in, what

609
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.159
<v Speaker 2>they are looking for. They want fighters, they want progressives.

610
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:48.719
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

611
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:50.480
<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk about that, Doctor Cornell Western. We come

612
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.119
<v Speaker 2>forward here on Tavis Smiley.

613
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:52.719
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Justin