Speaker 1: We're Toarmin Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Speaker 1: Telegan's welcome back to another edition of the Pso. I
Speaker 1: am the team. You're Telow Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here
Speaker 1: with All and your Telo Lorenzo because my love the husband.
Speaker 1: He how are your lovely husband.
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful.
Speaker 1: He is working every day preparing our trip. So much
Speaker 1: to do. Uh and Donicall and Dublin, We're just gonna
Speaker 1: be very busy boys.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone about it, like, we
Speaker 2: can't just go. I mean there's so much reparation, right,
Speaker 2: you know, for the site, for everything. I wish I
Speaker 2: could just go and not worry about anything, like like
Speaker 2: any other person. I can play, But now we have
Speaker 2: to prepare ahead of time everything, and then we still
Speaker 2: have to write. I mean we we you know, we
Speaker 2: tour all day, which is wonderful. I'm not complaining, But
Speaker 2: then we go back to the hotel and then we
Speaker 2: have to start prepairing.
Speaker 1: Fan to work, and we're gonna wind up recording, yeah,
Speaker 1: two of the Bitterkin Movie Club entries before we go.
Speaker 1: We're probably gonna wind up doing that this weekend actually,
Speaker 1: And so that we can space them out while we're gone.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just it's it's how it is. I'm
Speaker 2: not complaining. I'm a god. He's a wonderful true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, but no, very exciting, very excited.
Speaker 2: We've been to Ireland, as I mentioned, but I'm very
Speaker 2: excited about Scotland.
Speaker 1: And we're checking the weather every day, I know, because
Speaker 1: it's that we're going to We're not gonna I know,
Speaker 1: not gonna be I mean, and is not going to
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 2: Europe is on fire right now. And it's funny because
Speaker 2: my brother lives in the Netherlands and I just text
Speaker 2: him and I said, how's the weather there? I know
Speaker 2: it's Bernie and and he's like, yeah, and we don't
Speaker 2: have it condition And I completely forgot he doesn't have it.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what, you don't have air condition? No,
Speaker 2: we don't. We don't need it. Well, clearly you guys do.
Speaker 2: I mean, things have to change. I was just listening
Speaker 2: on NPR about that, because that's all they talk about.
Speaker 2: It's how hot it is in your that Europe has
Speaker 2: to change that. I mean, they have to story.
Speaker 1: Well, part of the problem, for instance in the UK
Speaker 1: because this is an issue in the UK is that
Speaker 1: they're you know, their infrastructure does not really support and
Speaker 1: we're not just talking about things like windows. It's also
Speaker 1: the kind of roofs that they have, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of insulation that they My understanding is they
Speaker 1: don't actually have that much intulation in the UK. It's
Speaker 1: not actually you know, legally required as much.
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from hotels obviously they have their prepare
Speaker 2: for guests for tourists, but in general, I remember going
Speaker 2: to the Buccane Palace, I believe, and it's smell like
Speaker 2: sweat inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it's even further than that, like
Speaker 1: their rail lines cannot handle the heat because the metal
Speaker 1: of their trucks can't even handle it. So like the economy,
Speaker 1: it affects the economy. Inous ways, forty people drowned, and
Speaker 1: I know, and I mean I've seen some of this
Speaker 1: on social media. Europeans get very bent out of ship
Speaker 1: when Americans start saying shit like this, And I have
Speaker 1: to say, there's no denying that there's a certain amount
Speaker 1: of anti American posturing when they start getting defensive about it,
Speaker 1: like air conditioning is something that you use stilly Americans
Speaker 1: cook or hardcore Europeans don't need it, and it's like, well, actually,
Speaker 1: hundreds of you were dying every year, so maybe you
Speaker 1: do need it. But like I said, it's not as
Speaker 1: simple as Americans think. We'll just pop it a window
Speaker 1: unit in, but their windows can't support it, their electrical
Speaker 1: grid can't support it.
Speaker 2: So you know, a lot going on.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, these countries were not developed. You know,
Speaker 1: they're thousands of years old in a climate that was gone.
Speaker 1: You know, they never had to worry about this sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. That's why we look at America and there
Speaker 1: are whole portions, massive portions of America that get very,
Speaker 1: very hot, and always did. It's not like suddenly Arizona
Speaker 1: became as hot, as it's been that way for hundreds
Speaker 1: of years. So it's sort of built into our culture
Speaker 1: that yeah, you need air conditioning at this time of year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well that's the beauty over Europe because everything
Speaker 2: gets old.
Speaker 1: But then when when the climates start changing, and then
Speaker 1: when you get old you die of heat stroke.
Speaker 2: I know. So anyway, it's very hot there. I don't
Speaker 2: think Scotland will be hot, but I think I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ireland will be but I don't keep checking
Speaker 1: and it's not going above eighty degrees anytime over there.
Speaker 2: You tell us gott you Scottish, you know kittens, tell.
Speaker 1: Us the UK kittens and the Irish. Well we're not
Speaker 1: going to be in England, but let us know.
Speaker 2: How the weather.
Speaker 1: All right, we have much to talk about. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I know that you have some tiktoky things that you
Speaker 1: want to get off your chest. And you've been, like
Speaker 1: most of America observing all of the people from all
Speaker 1: over the world coming to the to the country for
Speaker 1: the World Cup, and it's actually been a good moment
Speaker 1: for us because you know, this country is not in
Speaker 1: a great place at the moment are standing in the
Speaker 1: world is the worst it's ever been. And you know,
Speaker 1: there was talk for months ahead of time because of
Speaker 1: the you know, draconian immigration policies of this administration and
Speaker 1: the way people are just getting turned away. There was
Speaker 1: that referee a couple of weeks ago that was turned
Speaker 1: away and people predicted, oh my god, this was going
Speaker 1: to be a disaster for the United States. It's we're
Speaker 1: gonna look, We're gonna be so embarrassed on the world stage.
Speaker 1: But I think the reason this has been so great
Speaker 1: is because it's people meeting people. It's not countries meeting countries.
Speaker 1: It's not leaders meeting leaders. It's actually people from Scotland
Speaker 1: partying with people from Boston. You know, when you get
Speaker 1: away from the leaders and the policy and all of
Speaker 1: that other stuff and you just let people be people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: America is a great place, right.
Speaker 2: They have something else in common, which is sports, you know, right, soccer.
Speaker 2: They all beer and beer, which they ran out of
Speaker 2: beer in Boston.
Speaker 1: In Boston.
Speaker 2: It's just that, you know, it's Yeah. When when they
Speaker 2: announced the games, we're gonna be here, it got very
Speaker 2: complicated and it was this whole discussion about you know,
Speaker 2: how we're gonna handle it, and when we're in the
Speaker 2: middle of this immigration crisis, and a lot of people
Speaker 2: were saying, we're not going, but you know, if you're
Speaker 2: a hardcore fan, you you're gonna come no matter what.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people did. And it was interesting
Speaker 2: to see, especially on social media on TikTok, all these
Speaker 2: representations here was just so much fun. All the things
Speaker 2: that happened, like especially here in Philadelphia, we had the braziliance,
Speaker 2: we had the French people they were all here. They
Speaker 2: were all over the Art Museum, you know, the steps
Speaker 2: and and just partying and dancing. And then in Boston
Speaker 2: they had Thetish people wearing kilts all over the city
Speaker 2: and having the best time. You know, they drank all
Speaker 2: the beer they had there. And then they moved to Miami.
Speaker 2: It is just fun. Fun to see, oh in the Dutch.
Speaker 2: My god, the Dutch friends going nuts everywhere. Just awesome
Speaker 2: to see that. I mean, you know, soccer fans in
Speaker 2: Europe they can get a little wild, and I'll leave
Speaker 2: it at that, you know, but they can also be
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. They yeah, they're fun. They they're
Speaker 2: they're enthusiastic about everything. And it was nice to see
Speaker 2: them here in the country. And it was interesting to see,
Speaker 2: especially on TikTok with hilarious they experiencing America, United States
Speaker 2: for the first time and all the things that they
Speaker 2: noticed here that they were just funny. One of them,
Speaker 2: the first one I thought it was hilarious, is that
Speaker 2: how everything is huge, because you know, they went to Dallas,
Speaker 2: most of them, and how everything is huge, like the
Speaker 2: supermarkets are huge, Walmart. They couldn't believe how all the
Speaker 2: choices that we have here of Syria, of everything, and
Speaker 2: it's just just fun to see that. The other thing
Speaker 2: was the portions, you know, like how they all went
Speaker 2: to restaurants and how you know, the portions are enormous here.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because we have international friends. We have
Speaker 2: friends from Blatin America everywhere, and when they come here,
Speaker 2: they always mentioned the same thing. They always talk about
Speaker 2: how big the portions are here in the United States
Speaker 2: compared to you know ere for example, where you get
Speaker 2: like these tiny little things when you go to a restaurant.
Speaker 2: So that was fun to see on social media people
Speaker 2: showing their plates and it's just cute. And then the
Speaker 2: thing about ranch dressing, which was hilarious. TSA had to
Speaker 2: actually make a statement and tell Europeans when they were
Speaker 2: heading back home to not, you know, buy so much
Speaker 2: ranch dressing and to take it with them in the
Speaker 2: in their you know, carry on luggage because they couldn't
Speaker 2: do it. So that was funny to see. And I
Speaker 2: believe it because my brother's obsessed with blue cheese dressing
Speaker 2: and I always have to bring it to him because
Speaker 2: he loves it. It's just funny how some salad dresses
Speaker 2: in the United States are like people never heard of
Speaker 2: it or never experience it, and they're obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: So that was fun. The other thing that I find interesting,
Speaker 2: of course, they're all here and you get to see
Speaker 2: that conversation a lot on social media, especially on TikTok,
Speaker 2: the whole tipping thing, which I find very very interesting
Speaker 2: because Europeans especially are always complaining that they have to
Speaker 2: tip here in the United States, and I find that fascinating,
Speaker 2: the whole topic, because they just don't get it. It's
Speaker 2: part of the culture here. It's one of the things
Speaker 2: here that they just can't understand. And you know, also
Speaker 2: the same thing when we go to Europe, like when
Speaker 2: I go to Europe. When we go to Europe, I'm
Speaker 2: always like confused about should I tip? I mean, how
Speaker 2: much do I tip? I'm always asking my brother and
Speaker 2: my friends, I mean should I And they're like, no,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. They're fine. It's just a different culture.
Speaker 2: And I remember I've had situations here. I remember, and
Speaker 2: it was all of the New York Times had a
Speaker 2: whole article about it because how New York hate They
Speaker 2: hate tourists because they don't tip, and so therefore they
Speaker 2: give them a very bad service, and then they complain
Speaker 2: about the service, but they don't understand that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the whole process. Here, it's a cycle. You know,
Speaker 2: you don't get tips, so they don't feel like giving
Speaker 2: you a good service. But Europeans feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: they deserve a service regardless. But I had situations here.
Speaker 2: I had a friend from Latin America coming here to
Speaker 2: the United States and we went out to dinner and
Speaker 2: we actually had a major fight about tippy because she
Speaker 2: did not want to tip at all and I and
Speaker 2: I just, yeah, I got a little annoyed with it
Speaker 2: because I feel like it's I understand your point of view,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, I feel like if you
Speaker 2: are in a different country, you know, you have to
Speaker 2: sort of adapt to the culture or the customs. You know,
Speaker 2: if tippy is a thing he in the United States,
Speaker 2: then you just have to go with it. It's just
Speaker 2: the way it is.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: They rely on it, waiters rely on it, you know,
Speaker 2: So I I understand. But at the same time, I
Speaker 2: feel like, if you are in a different country, you
Speaker 2: should sort of embrace how things are done. I do.
Speaker 1: For the most part, people have been pretty good about
Speaker 1: it while they've been here.
Speaker 2: But I do also feel that we're way out of
Speaker 2: line when it comes to tipping in this country. Now
Speaker 2: that's a whole different story that. I mean, you get anything,
Speaker 2: they ask you to tip for anything. Uh, So that's annoying.
Speaker 2: And and they put you in a position where they
Speaker 2: turn that thing around, that tablet around and and you know,
Speaker 2: sort of like shame you if you don't tip anymore.
Speaker 2: So it's complicated, but it's always it's very interesting every
Speaker 2: time the topic comes up on social media, especially on TikTok.
Speaker 2: They always, I mean, it's always a fight. It's always
Speaker 2: this argument, especially between the United States and and your
Speaker 2: when it comes to tipping. So, how do you feel
Speaker 2: about it? Do you feel it's okay to tip? Do
Speaker 2: you tip when you're in here? How do you feel
Speaker 2: about the subject? And you, oh, you're asking I'm asking
Speaker 2: our listeners in gen or how you feel if you
Speaker 2: have any situation. Oh and then I had another friend
Speaker 2: who didn't tip. He in the United State, and this
Speaker 2: is hysterical. He left the restaurant, uh and the waiter
Speaker 2: went after him, chased him down and ask him why
Speaker 2: he didn't tip, And and and you know you didn't
Speaker 2: like the service and it was something wrong why you
Speaker 2: didn't tip and got him completely off course and he
Speaker 2: didn't know what to say. But anyway, it it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a complicated subject, but I feel like if you hear,
Speaker 2: that's the bottom line to me is that if you hear,
Speaker 2: then you should tip.
Speaker 1: I agree, all right, Why don't we take a short
Speaker 1: break before we do that. I do want to run
Speaker 1: down what we're doing this because I never even mentioned it.
Speaker 1: It's mostly a TV talk episode except for Lorenzo's little
Speaker 1: thing about tipping. We just went through. But we're doing
Speaker 1: a TV talk episode, and when we come back, I
Speaker 1: will talk about Spider Noir. Proud I will find you,
Speaker 1: And we're the last part of this podcast. We're going
Speaker 1: to talk about how said the Dragon.
Speaker 2: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be right back. We're back, and now we're
Speaker 1: plunging into TV talk. I have been meaning to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about Spider Noir for a while, and
Speaker 1: I'm kind of late. I didn't realize that that series
Speaker 1: dropped almost a month ago. It dropped on Prime. It
Speaker 1: stars Nicholas Cage. It's a sort of a take on
Speaker 1: Spider Man. I'm actually a little surprised. As a longtime nerd,
Speaker 1: I'm a little surprised that stories like this get told
Speaker 1: because for the longest time, the conventional wisdom in the
Speaker 1: world of comic books was that the quote unquote civilian
Speaker 1: public could not handle things like multi verse variants and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. It was too complicated, it was
Speaker 1: too nerdy, it was too offbeat. But you know, now
Speaker 1: there's a whole TV series about a Spider Man variant
Speaker 1: played by Nicholas Cage. Now, the Spider Verse was introduced
Speaker 1: to the public in a series of animated films, and
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage played the Spider Noir character, or he voiced
Speaker 1: the Spider Noir character in these films. But I remember
Speaker 1: raising my eyebrow when I heard that he had been
Speaker 1: cast in a live action version, because he is a
Speaker 1: Spider Man character, and you know, Nicholas Cage is in
Speaker 1: his sixties and looks at and I was like, how
Speaker 1: is that gonna work? Bottom line is I actually don't
Speaker 1: think it does. I was a little surprised because the
Speaker 1: critics were kind of like pretty supportive of this when
Speaker 1: it first came out. It was charming and worth your time,
Speaker 1: and everything, and it is charming, And I won't tell
Speaker 1: you whether it's worth your time or not, because maybe
Speaker 1: charm is all you're looking for. Maybe Nicholas Cage is
Speaker 1: all you're looking for. Maybe Brendan Gleeson as a nineteen
Speaker 1: thirties you know gangster, which there is a lot of
Speaker 1: fun in watching him say things like superpowers with his
Speaker 1: with his Irish accent. But it really didn't grab me.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: In fact, I didn't finish it, and I am a nerd,
Speaker 1: but I don't, for one thing, I don't think this
Speaker 1: version of the character is all that interesting. I don't
Speaker 1: think putting Spider Man in a nineteen thirties and war
Speaker 1: detective storyline, it just doesn't grab me.
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes it works for a comic book,
Speaker 2: but not for a movie for live action. I will
Speaker 2: say that.
Speaker 1: The series looks amazing, and you have the option it's
Speaker 1: on Prime video. You have the option of watching it
Speaker 1: in black and white, are watching it in color?
Speaker 2: And you did both.
Speaker 1: I just think it's much more worth your time if
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it, watch it in black and white.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: It's a noir, it's meant to be, you know, a
Speaker 1: classic film noir. So watching it in color, I'm like,
Speaker 1: why would you do that? When you switch over to
Speaker 1: black and white, it looks amazing. I have to admit
Speaker 1: the sets, and I realize everything must be digital. There's
Speaker 1: a whole like vistas of New York, you know, streets
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties that simply do not exist in
Speaker 1: the real world today. So I have to assume all
Speaker 1: of that stuff was done digitally. But it's really well done.
Speaker 1: But I have to say something here, and I think
Speaker 1: this might be blesphemy for some people. I don't think
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage is all that great an actor. I just don't.
Speaker 1: I think he's extremely charismatic. I think in his best roles,
Speaker 1: in his biggest roles, he's extremely watchable. He makes very
Speaker 1: interesting choices as an actor, very unexpected choices as an actor.
Speaker 1: So you're always as of you wer like sort of
Speaker 1: on you know, on on your toes a little bit
Speaker 1: with him because you really don't know where he's going
Speaker 1: to go, where he's going to take a scene. And
Speaker 1: that's a great quality. That is a really great quality.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't all that up. But you still have
Speaker 1: to have, you know, I'm not going to trash Nicholas Cage,
Speaker 1: who is beloved. I find his acting very stiff, very
Speaker 1: men and not very realistic, so it always it tends
Speaker 1: to take me out of things. Agree when he's playing
Speaker 1: total freak shows and can really get his freak on,
Speaker 1: he's he's much more watchable. But in this one he's
Speaker 1: like this gum shoe detective and he's doing this sort
Speaker 1: of Humphrey Bogart kind of thing, and it just it
Speaker 1: sounds bad to me. It just sounds bad to me.
Speaker 1: Then there is the issue of when he's doing his
Speaker 1: Spider Man stuff. Clearly it's all digital and stuntman because
Speaker 1: you know, it's a full face mask. You can't see
Speaker 1: him at all, and that becomes a problem because Nicholas
Speaker 1: Case moves like a man in his sixties when he's not,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's just noticeable. It's very very not
Speaker 1: It's sort of like watching Yoda in the in the
Speaker 1: prequel movies, like suddenly flipping around and spinning all over
Speaker 1: the place. It just doesn't look right. There's just this
Speaker 1: disconnect between sixty two or three year old Nicholas Cage
Speaker 1: and the superhero that's like flipping and bouncing all over
Speaker 1: the city, and like the two you can't you can't
Speaker 1: marry them. It becomes way too obvious that we're not
Speaker 1: looking at Nicholas Cage. We're looking at either a stuntman
Speaker 1: or a digital creation.
Speaker 2: So that takes me out of it.
Speaker 1: It does have a lot of charm, but I think
Speaker 1: that's literally the only thing it does have, and sometimes
Speaker 1: you're gagging on it. There's a way to do these
Speaker 1: sort of retro stories, especially when you're injecting like fantasy
Speaker 1: or super heroic elements or science fiction elements into it.
Speaker 2: There's a way to do that.
Speaker 1: Like the old Agent Carter series that was on ABC
Speaker 1: like ten years ago, was a melding of you know,
Speaker 1: Marvel and classic nineteen forties adventure dramas.
Speaker 2: You can do it.
Speaker 1: It's possible, and I even think it's possible to do
Speaker 1: a sort of Spider Noir ish Spider Man nineteen thirties
Speaker 1: kind of take. But ultimately I think the concept and
Speaker 1: the casting and the idea there's just too much that
Speaker 1: the audience I can't speak for it. There's too much
Speaker 1: for me to buy into. I'm like, all right, I
Speaker 1: have to accept that there's a Spider Man detective in
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties. I have to accept that Nicholas Cage
Speaker 1: is actually flipping around the city like that, and I
Speaker 1: don't know the storyline. It's charming, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: Easter eggs. If you know you're Spider Man continuity, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that pop up names and everything
Speaker 1: like that. But ultimately it's just I didn't I was
Speaker 1: not grabbed by it. So that's my take on Spider Noir.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear of any other nerds out
Speaker 1: there watched it, finished it, liked it, hate me for
Speaker 1: saying that Nicholas Cage is a bad after So I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know much about it. Bear watch a
Speaker 2: little bit of one episode with you, and I felt
Speaker 2: the same way. I was like, wow, he looks old.
Speaker 2: Oh and then he's jumping like crazy like jumping around
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that doesn't work. But it did look beautiful.
Speaker 1: It looks beautiful, and like I said, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of charm in it, and I actually do like most
Speaker 1: of the supporting cast, but I just, yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: buy him in that role, and I don't think the
Speaker 1: character is very interesting so no, I didn't finish it. Sorry,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't for me. You finished I Will find You,
Speaker 1: and I only sat in the background watching that piece
Speaker 1: of garbage crap, youre crap. At a certain point you
Speaker 1: watched it, so I'm going to turn the review over you.
Speaker 1: But at a certain point some character was saying some
Speaker 1: and it was the most the clumsy, most expositional dialogue,
Speaker 1: where like I am explaining my relationship to you and
Speaker 1: our entire history together and recapping what happened in the
Speaker 1: last three apps. Like it's that kind of Netflix right
Speaker 1: where they assume that you're not paying attention. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of us and I just set out loud that
Speaker 1: this is crap.
Speaker 3: To you.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is and you made a You
Speaker 1: said it was like a Hallmark Lifetime and actually, like
Speaker 1: a Hallmark is they are slicker than what we saw here.
Speaker 1: I understand the comparison because it has that sort of
Speaker 1: look no offense if you love those Hallmark Lifetime movies,
Speaker 1: but they're not intellectual films, right, you know, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: pure mindless entertainment and it has that sort of feel
Speaker 1: to it, except it's trying to do sort of a
Speaker 1: suspenseful story, like we're not talking about like picking out
Speaker 1: Christmas trees and falling in love, Like there's a suspenseful,
Speaker 1: right impactful story there, and it's just everything's done in
Speaker 1: the worst sort of television acting, the worst flattest directing,
Speaker 1: and then the script is just just people explaining things
Speaker 1: to each other constantly and saying each other's names. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I will no no. I mean, if you're starting Sam
Speaker 1: Worthington and Britt Lauer and it's about a father who
Speaker 1: was imprisoned for killing his son, but he finds out
Speaker 1: or suspects that his son is still alive and that
Speaker 1: he breaks out of jail. This is all in the
Speaker 1: first episode, so I'm not spoiling anything. But every time
Speaker 1: I looked up, somebody was doing something so completely out
Speaker 1: of pocket, like how did you get from being in
Speaker 1: jail and now you're in a suit and you're like
Speaker 1: breaking into some mansion.
Speaker 2: And I will give it a shot to pretty much
Speaker 2: anything you know on Netflix. I'm a Netflix fan, so
Speaker 2: and I was I'm not surprised that it's number one
Speaker 2: show now on Netflix because people light you know, it's a.
Speaker 1: Laundry folding show. Yes, for people you know, and there's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong.
Speaker 2: With I also thinks all the time. I don't mind
Speaker 2: silly shows. I don't mind shows that you want just
Speaker 2: to you. But when the writing is bed, when the
Speaker 2: plot is bad, this is really really bad. You explain,
Speaker 2: you know that if father goes to prison because they
Speaker 2: think he killed his son and turns out he didn't,
Speaker 2: I'm not spoiling anything. He wants to prove that he didn't.
Speaker 2: And then they see a picture, you know, and there's
Speaker 2: a kid in the back in the background, and they
Speaker 2: so they think now and so they think the kid's alive,
Speaker 2: and they he gets out of prison and tries you know,
Speaker 2: it's the whole show is about him trying to prove
Speaker 2: that he didn't kill his son. The son's still alive
Speaker 2: and he needs to find the son. So it's an
Speaker 2: interesting cast. I mean, britt Lauer is amazing and she
Speaker 2: tries her best, you know, Yeah, but it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Sam more than to I don't know another one that's
Speaker 2: I never thought. I never thought he was good. Uh.
Speaker 2: Logan Brown gets the worst lines possible. She's she really does.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're a script, but every time I was like,
Speaker 1: oh god, her lines are horrible.
Speaker 2: She's a cop and it's just bad, bad, bad Malanie Stowe.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know Madeline Stowe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Madeline Stee. I'm sorry she she's great as always,
Speaker 2: but she's playing the evil mother. You know. It reminded
Speaker 2: me of Revenge, you know, and Revenge work because he
Speaker 2: was camped from from from the from.
Speaker 1: This should have been campy. If it had been campy,
Speaker 1: this would have been a lot more interesting. But everyone's
Speaker 1: playing it so strong.
Speaker 2: Seriously, you know. They taken this show very seriously, and
Speaker 2: Revenge was just fun.
Speaker 1: You know, like if Britt Lauer had played this campy
Speaker 1: or funny, I think she would have had a lot
Speaker 1: of fun with it. You my little Vntimilia is in
Speaker 1: it as well. He does look amazing. I will give
Speaker 1: him that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if nothing else, he looks great. Eight he does,
Speaker 2: so that's he's that.
Speaker 1: So he looks great. And clothes, I mean, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like his clothes look really really good on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also like Jonathan Tucker. I always had a
Speaker 2: thing for him. I think he's hot. Yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 2: he's got that.
Speaker 1: White tresh look till he's hot white trash.
Speaker 2: See. I do like that. No, I know you do.
Speaker 2: I do like that type anyway. So the men are hot.
Speaker 2: If you want to watch watch it for the men
Speaker 2: sometimes I do. Uh, And but it's just it every
Speaker 2: now and then I was like shaking my head, like
Speaker 2: what is going on here? Yeah, because they keep they
Speaker 2: keep you know, discovering things and things show up, and
Speaker 2: shows like these are are so terribly written because they
Speaker 2: come up with the stupid, you know, explanation to justify
Speaker 2: something that's going on, and you're like why what? Uh. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: it's a very silly show entertaining. But but no, I'm
Speaker 2: that's not great.
Speaker 1: Two for two Spidan Noir and I will find you
Speaker 1: there were thumbs down on both of them. We cannot
Speaker 1: recommend either one. All right, we will take a short
Speaker 1: break and then we're going to come back with a
Speaker 1: show that we actually can recommend. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: We're back, uh. And now we're going to before we
Speaker 1: launch into a I don't want to say a big discussion,
Speaker 1: but our main discussion, which will be House of the Dragon,
Speaker 1: we wanted to just take a second and tell you
Speaker 1: about a show that you probably haven't heard of, that
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten a lot of fanfare, but it might be
Speaker 1: worth your time if you're interested. It's a show on
Speaker 1: HBO Max called Proud and it is a Polish show.
Speaker 1: And the one thing I will say that might make
Speaker 1: it hard for people to get into is that it's dubbed.
Speaker 2: And I hate that it's dubbed. I didn't watch it dubbed.
Speaker 1: Oh I watched it.
Speaker 2: No, you must have it automatically set for for it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: But you know what I was on Wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: I was on my computer watching it and there was
Speaker 1: no option. No. I watch it on TV and it
Speaker 1: was oh, okay, Well that's good because now I have
Speaker 1: to watch it again because it was very hard.
Speaker 2: No, god, no, okay.
Speaker 1: So that's a little helpful hint for you if you
Speaker 1: just want the subtimee because I would have loved to
Speaker 1: have listened to people speaking in Polish.
Speaker 2: God, that's so funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had to watch both episodes and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of off put.
Speaker 2: Now there was no option on my computer to which
Speaker 2: is a lot. Sometimes it happens on Netflix depending on
Speaker 2: your saying, it comes automatically dumb and well, you know, anyways.
Speaker 1: Good to know, all right, so scratch everything. I just said,
Speaker 1: but proud is a I don't think it's necessary. It's
Speaker 1: it's called an LGBTQ drama, but I'm not entirely sure
Speaker 1: that that's accurate. It's it's a family drama, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a drama show, and it's it has queerness in it,
Speaker 1: and of course the main character is queer. But by
Speaker 1: the time I got to the second episode, the end
Speaker 1: of the second episode, in that funeral scene, that scene
Speaker 1: where they got drunk in the restaurant after the funeral,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not very queer. She's yelling
Speaker 1: at her daughter that she has to go to college,
Speaker 1: and she runs into her ex and everything, and she's
Speaker 1: not even the main character. Don't get me wrong, it's
Speaker 1: a queer show, but I think it manages to avoid
Speaker 1: a lot of, say, the cliches of what you would
Speaker 1: expect in a queer show. Let me just do with
Speaker 1: the setup and then we can talk about it. This
Speaker 1: is the setup. So this is not a spoiler, but
Speaker 1: it's about a young twenty something, like early to mid
Speaker 1: twenty something gay guy in Poland. I'm not sure they
Speaker 1: named the city. I know it's not Crackow because someone
Speaker 1: just arrived from Crackou in the second episode. I don't
Speaker 1: know what city it is, but he is a model.
Speaker 1: He's a pretty low rent model. He goes on casting
Speaker 1: calls and everything, and he did a morning TV show
Speaker 1: where he had to wear a speedo, so he's not
Speaker 1: doing like high fashion runway work. And he's a hard partier,
Speaker 1: and he clearly has some addiction issues, and he likes
Speaker 1: to go out and get laid a lot. In some ways,
Speaker 1: a very typical twenty something gay guy in an urban center.
Speaker 1: He has a sister that he's living with and she
Speaker 1: has a toddler, and spoiler, it happens halfway through the
Speaker 1: first episode she dies. No, I mean it's the whole
Speaker 1: premise of the show.
Speaker 2: Premise of the show.
Speaker 1: So he dies, and he is this irresponsible gay twenty
Speaker 1: something face up. And what makes it sort of much
Speaker 1: more poignant than simply, you know, a gay guy, a
Speaker 1: gay fuck up needs to grow up. It's that he
Speaker 1: and his sister were in the system. They grow up
Speaker 1: in an orphanage, and in the brief scenes that they
Speaker 1: have together before she's killed off, they talk about how
Speaker 1: traumatizing that was, and it's pretty clear that a lot
Speaker 1: of his issues come from that that he was abandoned
Speaker 1: by his parents and dropped into an orphanage and it
Speaker 1: was a terrible experience for him. Anyway, that's the setup
Speaker 1: for it. I really loved it for a lot of
Speaker 1: different reasons, but I think the main one was it's
Speaker 1: not you just expect it's just going to be all
Speaker 1: hot guys and sex and discothechts. And there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that. First, not that much though, that's just it.
Speaker 1: There's not as much of that as I would have expected.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of him going out into the world
Speaker 1: and just not being mature enough to handle anything.
Speaker 2: But I did. I really liked that.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of subtlety in the acting. It's not
Speaker 1: trying to do anything too hard. The lead actor, Ignacia Lists,
Speaker 1: is great because so charming. He's so like under affected.
Speaker 1: He keeps it all of it, which I think is
Speaker 1: very true of his generation, but also true of someone
Speaker 1: in his situation who would probably not you know, you.
Speaker 2: Just mentioned something very interesting that is very true.
Speaker 3: Is that kind of look that doesn't show yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: but he's got to stand yeah, and you want to
Speaker 3: shake them and you want to slap them and most
Speaker 3: of the other characters want to do the same thing.
Speaker 2: Sister try to do that. Yeah, I I'm always fascinated
Speaker 2: by queer show, international queer shows. I mean, I would
Speaker 2: call it a queer show, but anyway, it is been
Speaker 2: released as a as a queer show. It's it's it's
Speaker 2: one of the most talked about international shows right now.
Speaker 2: Uh in Europe, everywhere it's it. It's getting a lot
Speaker 2: of good buzz. And it's a great show. And especially
Speaker 2: because it comes from Poland. You know, if you watch Poland,
Speaker 2: Polish shows, Polish movies, it's you know, it's it's a
Speaker 2: conservative country. Uh So to have a show like that,
Speaker 2: I think it's fantastic. And I and and the choices
Speaker 2: you just mentioned that it's not very queer or you know,
Speaker 2: it's more about family. I wonder if that was deliberate,
Speaker 2: you know, so that the show could have you know,
Speaker 2: they could do the show and the show show in Poland,
Speaker 2: or it's because they just felt like, let's tell let's talk,
Speaker 2: let's tell a different story here, or maybe both. But
Speaker 2: I it is very interesting. I love it because it's
Speaker 2: all about fatherhood and you know, gay fatherhood.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. I think as an American watching this
Speaker 1: show to you know, I won't claim that queer people
Speaker 1: in America have had just we're just enjoying a free
Speaker 1: ride at the moment. I won't claim that, but you
Speaker 1: are faced with there's a different attitude in Poland about
Speaker 1: gay man raising children. It's very clear that the idea
Speaker 1: of him raising this child is a little strange to
Speaker 1: some people in a way that it would you know,
Speaker 1: if it was set in America or even Great Britain,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have that plotline. So it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: nice to have this version of gay life that where
Speaker 1: they're still fighting for things that we kind of take
Speaker 1: for granted here in this country. And it's not illegal
Speaker 1: for him to be a father, but it's much much
Speaker 1: more difficult.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I mean, he that's probably the whole show
Speaker 2: because we only have watched two episodes, only two episodes around,
Speaker 2: that's probably what the show is about. They're going to
Speaker 2: be about, is him trying to fight to have custody
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 1: Daughter, presumably get his head on straight, no pun intended.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got a lot of issues.
Speaker 2: He's good, yeah, he I mean he yeah, he does
Speaker 2: all sorts of things. So so he's going to have
Speaker 2: to be a little more responsible if he wants to,
Speaker 2: you know, be in charge of the Little Girl. But
Speaker 2: I I, like I said, I love these shows because
Speaker 2: he gives you a little bit of a I don't know,
Speaker 2: a look into queerness in a different country aside from
Speaker 2: the United States. I just love every time I see
Speaker 2: a show in a national show like this, I always
Speaker 2: make sure that I watch because it's good. It's always good.
Speaker 2: It's sometimes gives you and perspect him on exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And I have to say the Little Girl, she is
Speaker 1: a horrible is absolutely adorable.
Speaker 2: It's really well done. It's beautiful. Yeah, to look at
Speaker 2: it's a great show. It's not a low budget show.
Speaker 2: It looks expensive, it looks nice.
Speaker 1: And I just think it's a very religiod gay gay
Speaker 1: dude a side gay male model aside, it's actually a
Speaker 1: very relatable story in a lot of way. It's about
Speaker 1: family and drama and about your issues, and it's about
Speaker 1: letting the people around you down and whether or not
Speaker 1: you can figure out a way to stop doing that.
Speaker 2: I think, I think, if nothing else, that's the story here,
Speaker 2: especially if you were single, if you're not married, if
Speaker 2: you're not thinking of having kids, to be in that
Speaker 2: situation where you know, your life is completely turned upside down,
Speaker 2: you know, because of a certain you know, because of
Speaker 2: something that happened to you or your family. So I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting how you deal with it, you know,
Speaker 2: and how that changed your life. So, if nothing else,
Speaker 2: that's a show about that.
Speaker 1: Agreed. All right, let's talk a little bit about House
Speaker 1: of the Dragon. Yes, this is probably going to go
Speaker 1: a little bit longer than our other topics. Let me
Speaker 1: first say this. I was not into it, and we've talked.
Speaker 1: We did the first two seasons of the show. We
Speaker 1: we recapped them here on the podcast. We did some
Speaker 1: costume stuff early on. But this goes back to my
Speaker 1: often stated point about modern television and the expectations that
Speaker 1: people are going to wait two years in between seasons
Speaker 1: for these extremely complicated storylines.
Speaker 2: You barely remember anything.
Speaker 1: And I with this time around, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch it, and I'm going to regret if
Speaker 1: I don't watch it. But I'm like, I'm not doing
Speaker 1: any freaking homework. I'm not doing homework. And in fact,
Speaker 1: to me, this goes it's sort of hand in hand
Speaker 1: with how you know when you're reviewing or talking about
Speaker 1: a show or a movie that has been adapted from
Speaker 1: a book. I don't give a shit about the book.
Speaker 1: We're going to review the TV show. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about whether the TV show. You know that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. It's the same thing here where if I
Speaker 1: have to go and do for five minutes of research
Speaker 1: or I have to watch some video recapping the previous
Speaker 1: season in order to understand what's happening in this episode,
Speaker 1: that is a failure as a television show.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think. I think if you're a fan
Speaker 2: of the books, great because you have all these knowledge,
Speaker 2: right you understand all these characters, the history and everything,
Speaker 2: especially because this is very much true with this story
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of history. The second season was
Speaker 2: all about their history, right Uh, and then now we
Speaker 2: have all these battles going on. But if you if
Speaker 2: you haven't read the book, you are any show out there.
Speaker 2: I think I think you should be able to enjoy
Speaker 2: a show even if you.
Speaker 1: Stand on it. Yeah, I agree, And it's the same
Speaker 1: thing an episode of television. I realized that you have
Speaker 1: to you have to know if you're in the third
Speaker 1: season of a serialized drama, you have to know everything
Speaker 1: that happened before, But I shouldn't have to do research
Speaker 1: to figure out what happened before. Having said all of that,
Speaker 1: because that was my attitude going into it, while I
Speaker 1: was watching this first episode, I was I had to
Speaker 1: begrudgingly say, you know what, they're really doing a very
Speaker 1: very good job of clearly getting you back into the story.
Speaker 1: I can't remember every nu once and every time a
Speaker 1: character popped up, I was like, oh yeah, what's their
Speaker 1: story again, like uh huh. And some of that I
Speaker 1: really don't remember. Because that's the thing about House of
Speaker 1: the Dragon. Massive cast, massive cast, And I know Game
Speaker 1: of Thrones also had a massive cast, but I feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like Game of Thrones slowly expanded its cast,
Speaker 1: whereas with this one, you were thrown everybody everybody like
Speaker 1: in the first You know, Game.
Speaker 2: Of Thrones did a very good job introducing the characters
Speaker 2: over time. Because I never read the books and I
Speaker 2: was totally fine with what I was watching. You know,
Speaker 2: I didn't need anything else. Uh here, I feel like
Speaker 2: I need I need a little bit more information. But
Speaker 2: Game of Thrones it just went you know, slowly introducing everybody,
Speaker 2: and it was fine. Here, I don't know, I feel
Speaker 2: like I need a little more like backstory.
Speaker 1: When they cut to the what are they called, the
Speaker 1: dragon Seeds, the three guys who yeah, yeah, they cut
Speaker 1: to them, and I'm like, oh, right, right, what are
Speaker 1: their stories again? Like and I know, like, for instance,
Speaker 1: the blonde guy, Hugh Hammer, who I actually think that
Speaker 1: guy's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Oh he is gorgeous.
Speaker 1: They cut to him at one point, and then there
Speaker 1: was some reference to his background. I'm like, I I
Speaker 1: think there was an episode about him, but I really
Speaker 1: don't remember it. Like, and that's the sort of stuff
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, if the show can figure out
Speaker 1: a way to convey this information to me, fine, But
Speaker 1: I Am not running off to Wikipedia or doing anything
Speaker 1: like that. Because this is the other thing I want
Speaker 1: to say before we get into the episode, which is
Speaker 1: that app su are a Night of the Seven Kingdoms
Speaker 1: premiered earlier this year, which was the third West Ross
Speaker 1: or George R. R. Martin adaptation, and unlike the first two,
Speaker 1: House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones, the whole
Speaker 1: vibe of that show is very different. It's a lot lighter,
Speaker 1: the stakes are a lot less serious. There are very
Speaker 1: likable characters. The lead character is just someone you would
Speaker 1: fall in love with. And it was a much gentler
Speaker 1: take on this kind of story, and I loved it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know if I want
Speaker 1: to go back into all this dragony, incesty, bullshit. These
Speaker 1: people are awful, and I have to admit that will
Speaker 1: be for me going forward with this show. I have
Speaker 1: not soured on this show, and when we come back
Speaker 1: from the break, I want to talk about why I
Speaker 1: haven't soured from this show. But I have to admit
Speaker 1: i'd take a much more you need to impress me
Speaker 1: kind of stance with it. Need to get this exactly right,
Speaker 1: because otherwise I don't know how invested I am in
Speaker 1: this anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've I've read a lot of criticism
Speaker 2: of the show about trying to compromise between the book,
Speaker 2: the insane history of the book of all these characters,
Speaker 2: many many, many details, and and and entertaining an interesting
Speaker 2: TV show, right, and it's it's hard, it's it's difficult,
Speaker 2: and and make some of these people likable. That's the
Speaker 2: other thing people were talking about, like because they're horrible
Speaker 2: in the book, and you know it's hard to do.
Speaker 1: That's something that is my main complaint about where the
Speaker 1: show is right now, Why don't we take a break
Speaker 1: and we'll get into it right right, Okay, we'll be
Speaker 1: right back. We're back, and we're diving into House of
Speaker 1: the Dragon. Uh, first episode of season three and going
Speaker 1: to your likable point that you said before the break.
Speaker 1: This something where I mean, I wrestle with this sometimes
Speaker 1: because I think the modern complaint about likable characters is
Speaker 1: is it can be kind of childish, Like I agree,
Speaker 1: there are you know, I don't have to love characters,
Speaker 1: Lear King Lear, you know, like you don't need to
Speaker 1: love the people that it's you can do great drama
Speaker 1: about terrible people. My issue with this show is not
Speaker 1: that there's no one likable in the show, although it does.
Speaker 1: It does drag sometimes because it's like what I mean,
Speaker 1: when we were watching Jasarah's sink into the ocean at
Speaker 1: the end of this episode, I was like, what the
Speaker 1: fuck man, everybody's so goddamn stupid in this show.
Speaker 2: They're either stupid or they're evil or both, and that that.
Speaker 1: Can be I guess My point is there's no fun,
Speaker 1: asshole there's no fun asshole on this show, is there?
Speaker 2: There? Really isn't. Everyone is just sneeringly.
Speaker 1: Awful or stupid or delusional. And this is something I
Speaker 1: want to get into. Allison. I think I hate that
Speaker 1: character the most out of all of them, because the
Speaker 1: show insists on trying to give her nuance and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry the one tear rolling down her face as
Speaker 1: her fucked up son tries to make out with her,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, lady, this is a result of twenty
Speaker 1: five years of you making horrible, horrible decisions for yourself
Speaker 1: and for your family, and I'm supposed to feel sorry
Speaker 1: for you that all of your monster children are making
Speaker 1: your life hell. And she's like worried about whether her
Speaker 1: plan is going to worry. I'm like, you're horrible. If
Speaker 1: the show would just let and that's the thing, like
Speaker 1: let one of them be evil bitch, like awful, horrible bitch.
Speaker 1: But instead it's like, well, let's find nuance, right, And
Speaker 1: then you have ray Nira, who I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 2: She's particularly likable either.
Speaker 1: That's not a problem. My problem with Rhanira isn't so
Speaker 1: much that she the show tries to make her more
Speaker 1: new ones than she is. Is that the show doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to want to unpack how goddamn stupid she is, like,
Speaker 1: come on, you're stupid. At the point where she's like,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna fly in and take over, and her
Speaker 1: whole counsel is like, no, that's a terrible life, she's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: it'll be great, And I'm like, why am I watching this?
Speaker 2: Moral? But if you die? Why am I watching you?
Speaker 2: You're so stupid?
Speaker 1: This is my problem. It's not I don't need you
Speaker 1: to be likable. I need you to be entertaining. And
Speaker 1: you're stupid and you're evil, and neither one of you
Speaker 1: are fun to watch.
Speaker 2: It's a shame because these are two main characters the
Speaker 2: whole story rests on, right, and they're female characters, which,
Speaker 2: you know, you would want female characters to be a
Speaker 2: little more a little stronger than that, with you know,
Speaker 2: with a little more power than that. But it feels
Speaker 2: like they they kind of know what they want, but
Speaker 2: they always rely on the man of the show.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the point.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's part of the book, Maybe that's part of
Speaker 2: the story. You know, that's how it is. Uh, But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I don't know, I feel like
Speaker 2: they could be a little more manipulative, I don't know,
Speaker 2: in a in a more powerful way. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean like you certainly saw that on Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1: You it was women working within the same system, right,
Speaker 1: who were smarter about wielding power than these two women,
Speaker 1: who are actually two of the most powerful women in
Speaker 1: wester Rows. Why are you two such fuck ups? Why
Speaker 1: are you so dumb? Why do you get caught up
Speaker 1: in these brands that everyone around you was like, no,
Speaker 1: don't do that, that would be stupid. That's my problem
Speaker 1: with the show. It's not it's not that it's unlikable
Speaker 1: people doing terrible things. It's that it's it's it's uninteresting
Speaker 1: people doing dumb things.
Speaker 2: That's really it.
Speaker 1: It's uninteresting people doing some things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it always making bad decisions in general wage and
Speaker 2: you feel like you, you know, and it's a little
Speaker 2: disappointed because you' I feel like they're smarter than that.
Speaker 2: As character, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I do want to say, for instance, because I brought
Speaker 1: up the dragon seeds, there is clearly an attempt to make,
Speaker 1: especially a character like Olf sort of humorous and funny
Speaker 1: and this roguish sort of asshole, and I have no
Speaker 1: problem with that. In fact, I would want more of that.
Speaker 1: I also like she was only in it briefly this episode.
Speaker 1: Alice Rivers, who plays the Witch, Oh right, right, I
Speaker 1: like that's another character who's like quirky and weird and
Speaker 1: kind of entertaining to what like, if you give me
Speaker 1: those characters, I'm fine, you give me, I'd listen. I
Speaker 1: really like Matt Smith. I was a huge fan of
Speaker 1: his doctor who and I actually I don't hate this
Speaker 1: character or this portrayal of this character. He's just very
Speaker 1: one note. You can't do anything with that character except
Speaker 1: be a sneering, violent asshole all the time.
Speaker 2: That's all he is, and that's all he is, and
Speaker 2: it's like.
Speaker 1: Well, I again, Game Thrones did a better job. Game
Speaker 1: of Thrones was full of assholes and bitches, and it
Speaker 1: did a better job of making all of those assholes
Speaker 1: and bitches entertaining to watch. You didn't have to root
Speaker 1: for them, you didn't have to like them, but you
Speaker 1: couldn't wait to see what they were going to do next.
Speaker 1: And I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I
Speaker 1: was going to going into it because it's so well
Speaker 1: written and well directed and well acted, but the story, Like,
Speaker 1: I ultimately I don't think you can dress up this
Speaker 1: story any more than they have, Like that's it. This
Speaker 1: is the story. Dumbass, inbred people who are evil fighting
Speaker 1: over something that you know no one would want them
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of the fans of
Speaker 2: the book loved the battle, of course, because they were
Speaker 2: waiting for it and it was beautiful. I mean, it
Speaker 2: was insane, and the fact they were saying why didn't
Speaker 2: they have it into the second season but apparently becasing
Speaker 2: and what they didn't have the budget for it. It
Speaker 2: didn't have the budget.
Speaker 1: It was a strange way to open a season because
Speaker 1: you were plunged right into all these storylines immediately and
Speaker 1: then suddenly there's a big battle. It really was kind
Speaker 1: of that would have been a great season finale to
Speaker 1: be honest.
Speaker 2: Yes, but they didn't have the budget. Apparently they had
Speaker 2: to wait until season three. But I do enjoy like
Speaker 2: Lorid Corrus the whole you know, fighting with with what's
Speaker 2: her name, Schiroco Lohar.
Speaker 1: That's another one, who Abigail Thorne, who is awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: give me characters like that, Like, she's clearly not a
Speaker 1: likable person, she's clearly not an ethical person. I don't
Speaker 1: have to root for her, but I don't know what
Speaker 1: the hell she's going to do next. And that's the
Speaker 1: kind of stuff I want to see on this show.
Speaker 1: Of course, they killed her off, but right they yah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we'll see. It's just, it's all, it's constantly watching
Speaker 1: idiots do idiotic like just Sarah's just Sarah's sinking into
Speaker 1: the ocean at the end, and I'm like, am I
Speaker 1: supposed to be upset that he died? I'm more upset
Speaker 1: than is his dragon died. But that's actually upsetting when
Speaker 1: you watch that him, I don't give a ship. You're
Speaker 1: an idiot. You're just an idiot. You're an in Well
Speaker 1: he's actually not inbread.
Speaker 2: They are mostly idiot.
Speaker 1: It's well, no one's standing on principal, no one's fighting
Speaker 1: for a cause you're all just inbred idiots and they There.
Speaker 2: Was also a lot of talk about Rain and the
Speaker 2: dragon that she was not prepared.
Speaker 1: To Again, yeah, I get it, she's young, but also,
Speaker 1: you you dumb ass, you dumbs you flew that thing,
Speaker 1: that nuclear weapon that you can't control roughly into a.
Speaker 2: Battle, and he was like killing everybody.
Speaker 1: What I'm like, oh, poor Rhina, I'm supposed to feel sorry.
Speaker 2: For that, you know, apparently in the book is somebody
Speaker 2: else writing, Yeah, he's a more interesting character, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Matt Damon's character sleeps with her, but I know
Speaker 1: in this version she's his daughter, but of course that
Speaker 1: wants pop him from sleeping wether. So who knows.
Speaker 2: What else?
Speaker 1: Let me think we did the dragon Seeds. We did well,
Speaker 1: there's a whole story right near Allison's oh oh agon
Speaker 1: and Laris fleeing.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes again again.
Speaker 1: All he had to do was bend the knee and
Speaker 1: they would have been fine, but that idiot quick knew it.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, all right, well, please someone behead this morn,
Speaker 1: Please take his head off. Having said that, I do
Speaker 1: think those two are actually kind of entertaining to watch.
Speaker 1: And I have no idea where this stuff is going.
Speaker 1: I did read all of the Wikipedia entries on these
Speaker 1: characters and this storyline two years ago when the show
Speaker 1: first came out, and I have a general sense of
Speaker 1: where things wind up, but specific characters, no, I don't
Speaker 1: know where they're going to wind up. You know, so
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening with those two. But there
Speaker 1: are two characters. I'm like, all right, fine, I'm fine
Speaker 1: with seeing where you guys take this.
Speaker 2: And there's a king who fled very I mean, that's
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. That's the one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one I think aimon the one who's
Speaker 1: declaring himself king. Now, I think that guy's great. Iwin
Speaker 1: Mitchell Ewan Mitchell the actor, and he's clearly doing a
Speaker 1: riff on Matt Smith.
Speaker 2: Like, but that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's well, you're almost identical characters. You're literally almost identical,
Speaker 1: and your performances are exactly the same. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I get it right, you're in bred family
Speaker 1: and so you're you know, you all kind of look
Speaker 1: alike an act alike. But he's not one of my faves, right,
Speaker 1: and not because he's evil. Same thing with uh, Sir
Speaker 1: Christen Cole Fabian Frankel. I think they made that guy
Speaker 1: such an asshole that there's I'm like, well, why am
Speaker 1: I watching you? And again this comes down to I
Speaker 1: don't need you to be likable. I need you to
Speaker 1: be funny or entertaining or wild or something, and he's
Speaker 1: just this sour in celt who seems to hate women,
Speaker 1: and they gave him sword.
Speaker 2: I think that's what's a show missing. Like Game of Thrones,
Speaker 2: I remember, you had the battles, you had the fights
Speaker 2: and families and all that, but you also had some humor,
Speaker 2: you know, constantly, constantly lines and some just high adventure,
Speaker 2: just fun, adventurous stuff. But you need a break every
Speaker 2: now and then. It can't be just you know, very
Speaker 2: much by the book as it feels like that. But
Speaker 2: they are taking some I don't know, they're they're not
Speaker 2: following the book entirely. There's sometimes they're they're going and
Speaker 2: doing something different. That's what I that's my understanding. So
Speaker 2: we'll see. I as you said, I want to watch
Speaker 2: the show. I haven't read the books. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you read the books, that great. I'm actually jealous of
Speaker 2: the people who read the book. But I don't feel
Speaker 2: like I have to read the books to enjoy a show.
Speaker 2: I just want to enjoy it. I'm in it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's well act. That cast is. It's
Speaker 1: a really good cast, even if I don't think the
Speaker 1: writing gives them as much to do as I would like.
Speaker 1: It's beautifully directed, and there is some incredible dialogue in it,
Speaker 1: so there's quality all throughout this show. But I think
Speaker 1: the story itself, it's just it's flawed. Like there's only
Speaker 1: so much you can do with a story like That's
Speaker 1: you know, George R. R. And Martin wrote these stories
Speaker 1: self contained. You read them all and you were done
Speaker 1: two weeks later or whoever long it took you. But
Speaker 1: to drag a story like this out over years and
Speaker 1: years and years to a television series, it's kind of
Speaker 1: relentless and numbing.
Speaker 2: I think it's a challenge to water down something and
Speaker 2: then stretch stretch it out for so long.
Speaker 1: This story is not that complicated, it's hard to do.
Speaker 1: And like I said, when Alison was, you know, walking
Speaker 1: into the Throne room trying to figure out what she
Speaker 1: was going to do, and I'm like, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: care because you're so dumb. You're so dumb. Every decision
Speaker 1: you have made was either dumb or evil, and just
Speaker 1: years of watch you and trying to make you much
Speaker 1: more interesting or new ones and you're not. You want
Speaker 1: power for yourself and for your family. Raniera wants power
Speaker 1: for herself and for her family.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: You can't make it more interesting than that. Anyway, I'm
Speaker 1: in it. I'm in it for the rest of the season.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: If if this season goes south for whatever reason, if
Speaker 1: like then I might not come back to it, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm only I'm not hanging on by
Speaker 1: a thread. But I am hanging on and we'll see.
Speaker 1: I just think Night of the Seven Kingdoms showed me
Speaker 1: a different way of doing things.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1: Anyway, the construction is starting up next story, Yes, so
Speaker 1: we should probably wrap things up. We will be back tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We're watching The Bride, very excited for that for the
Speaker 1: Bitter Kitten Movie Club. And we'll be back next week
Speaker 1: with more on the next episode of House of the Dragon.
Speaker 1: Whatever else cross our eyes or crosses our desk, we'll
Speaker 1: be I screwed it up, Okay, love you mean it,
Speaker 1: but ba