Speaker 1: We're Toarmin Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Telegan's welcome back to another edition of the Pso. I
am the team. You're Telow Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here
with All and your Telo Lorenzo because my love the husband.
He how are your lovely husband.
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful.
Speaker 1: He is working every day preparing our trip. So much
to do. Uh and Donicall and Dublin, We're just gonna
be very busy boys.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone about it, like, we
can't just go. I mean there's so much reparation, right,
you know, for the site, for everything. I wish I
could just go and not worry about anything, like like
any other person. I can play, But now we have
to prepare ahead of time everything, and then we still
have to write. I mean we we you know, we
tour all day, which is wonderful. I'm not complaining, But
then we go back to the hotel and then we
have to start prepairing.
Speaker 1: Fan to work, and we're gonna wind up recording, yeah,
two of the Bitterkin Movie Club entries before we go.
We're probably gonna wind up doing that this weekend actually,
And so that we can space them out while we're gone.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just it's it's how it is. I'm
not complaining. I'm a god. He's a wonderful true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, but no, very exciting, very excited.
Speaker 2: We've been to Ireland, as I mentioned, but I'm very
excited about Scotland.
Speaker 1: And we're checking the weather every day, I know, because
it's that we're going to We're not gonna I know,
not gonna be I mean, and is not going to
get that.
Speaker 2: Europe is on fire right now. And it's funny because
my brother lives in the Netherlands and I just text
him and I said, how's the weather there? I know
it's Bernie and and he's like, yeah, and we don't
have it condition And I completely forgot he doesn't have it.
And I'm like, what, you don't have air condition? No,
we don't. We don't need it. Well, clearly you guys do.
I mean, things have to change. I was just listening
on NPR about that, because that's all they talk about.
It's how hot it is in your that Europe has
to change that. I mean, they have to story.
Speaker 1: Well, part of the problem, for instance in the UK
because this is an issue in the UK is that
they're you know, their infrastructure does not really support and
we're not just talking about things like windows. It's also
the kind of roofs that they have, and it's you know,
the kind of insulation that they My understanding is they
don't actually have that much intulation in the UK. It's
not actually you know, legally required as much.
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from hotels obviously they have their prepare
for guests for tourists, but in general, I remember going
to the Buccane Palace, I believe, and it's smell like
sweat inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it's even further than that, like
their rail lines cannot handle the heat because the metal
of their trucks can't even handle it. So like the economy,
it affects the economy. Inous ways, forty people drowned, and
I know, and I mean I've seen some of this
on social media. Europeans get very bent out of ship
when Americans start saying shit like this, And I have
to say, there's no denying that there's a certain amount
of anti American posturing when they start getting defensive about it,
like air conditioning is something that you use stilly Americans
cook or hardcore Europeans don't need it, and it's like, well, actually,
hundreds of you were dying every year, so maybe you
do need it. But like I said, it's not as
simple as Americans think. We'll just pop it a window
unit in, but their windows can't support it, their electrical
grid can't support it.
Speaker 2: So you know, a lot going on.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, these countries were not developed. You know,
they're thousands of years old in a climate that was gone.
You know, they never had to worry about this sort
of stuff. That's why we look at America and there
are whole portions, massive portions of America that get very,
very hot, and always did. It's not like suddenly Arizona
became as hot, as it's been that way for hundreds
of years. So it's sort of built into our culture
that yeah, you need air conditioning at this time of year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well that's the beauty over Europe because everything
gets old.
Speaker 1: But then when when the climates start changing, and then
when you get old you die of heat stroke.
Speaker 2: I know. So anyway, it's very hot there. I don't
think Scotland will be hot, but I think I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ireland will be but I don't keep checking
and it's not going above eighty degrees anytime over there.
Speaker 2: You tell us gott you Scottish, you know kittens, tell.
Speaker 1: Us the UK kittens and the Irish. Well we're not
going to be in England, but let us know.
Speaker 2: How the weather.
Speaker 1: All right, we have much to talk about. Yes, yes, yes,
I know that you have some tiktoky things that you
want to get off your chest. And you've been, like
most of America observing all of the people from all
over the world coming to the to the country for
the World Cup, and it's actually been a good moment
for us because you know, this country is not in
a great place at the moment are standing in the
world is the worst it's ever been. And you know,
there was talk for months ahead of time because of
the you know, draconian immigration policies of this administration and
the way people are just getting turned away. There was
that referee a couple of weeks ago that was turned
away and people predicted, oh my god, this was going
to be a disaster for the United States. It's we're
gonna look, We're gonna be so embarrassed on the world stage.
But I think the reason this has been so great
is because it's people meeting people. It's not countries meeting countries.
It's not leaders meeting leaders. It's actually people from Scotland
partying with people from Boston. You know, when you get
away from the leaders and the policy and all of
that other stuff and you just let people be people. Yeah,
America is a great place, right.
Speaker 2: They have something else in common, which is sports, you know, right, soccer.
They all beer and beer, which they ran out of
beer in Boston.
Speaker 1: In Boston.
Speaker 2: It's just that, you know, it's Yeah. When when they
announced the games, we're gonna be here, it got very
complicated and it was this whole discussion about you know,
how we're gonna handle it, and when we're in the
middle of this immigration crisis, and a lot of people
were saying, we're not going, but you know, if you're
a hardcore fan, you you're gonna come no matter what.
And a lot of people did. And it was interesting
to see, especially on social media on TikTok, all these
representations here was just so much fun. All the things
that happened, like especially here in Philadelphia, we had the braziliance,
we had the French people they were all here. They
were all over the Art Museum, you know, the steps
and and just partying and dancing. And then in Boston
they had Thetish people wearing kilts all over the city
and having the best time. You know, they drank all
the beer they had there. And then they moved to Miami.
It is just fun. Fun to see, oh in the Dutch.
My god, the Dutch friends going nuts everywhere. Just awesome
to see that. I mean, you know, soccer fans in
Europe they can get a little wild, and I'll leave
it at that, you know, but they can also be
a lot of fun. They yeah, they're fun. They they're
they're enthusiastic about everything. And it was nice to see
them here in the country. And it was interesting to see,
especially on TikTok with hilarious they experiencing America, United States
for the first time and all the things that they
noticed here that they were just funny. One of them,
the first one I thought it was hilarious, is that
how everything is huge, because you know, they went to Dallas,
most of them, and how everything is huge, like the
supermarkets are huge, Walmart. They couldn't believe how all the
choices that we have here of Syria, of everything, and
it's just just fun to see that. The other thing
was the portions, you know, like how they all went
to restaurants and how you know, the portions are enormous here.
And it's funny because we have international friends. We have
friends from Blatin America everywhere, and when they come here,
they always mentioned the same thing. They always talk about
how big the portions are here in the United States
compared to you know ere for example, where you get
like these tiny little things when you go to a restaurant.
So that was fun to see on social media people
showing their plates and it's just cute. And then the
thing about ranch dressing, which was hilarious. TSA had to
actually make a statement and tell Europeans when they were
heading back home to not, you know, buy so much
ranch dressing and to take it with them in the
in their you know, carry on luggage because they couldn't
do it. So that was funny to see. And I
believe it because my brother's obsessed with blue cheese dressing
and I always have to bring it to him because
he loves it. It's just funny how some salad dresses
in the United States are like people never heard of
it or never experience it, and they're obsessed with it.
So that was fun. The other thing that I find interesting,
of course, they're all here and you get to see
that conversation a lot on social media, especially on TikTok,
the whole tipping thing, which I find very very interesting
because Europeans especially are always complaining that they have to
tip here in the United States, and I find that fascinating,
the whole topic, because they just don't get it. It's
part of the culture here. It's one of the things
here that they just can't understand. And you know, also
the same thing when we go to Europe, like when
I go to Europe. When we go to Europe, I'm
always like confused about should I tip? I mean, how
much do I tip? I'm always asking my brother and
my friends, I mean should I And they're like, no,
don't worry about it. They're fine. It's just a different culture.
And I remember I've had situations here. I remember, and
it was all of the New York Times had a
whole article about it because how New York hate They
hate tourists because they don't tip, and so therefore they
give them a very bad service, and then they complain
about the service, but they don't understand that, you know,
it's the whole process. Here, it's a cycle. You know,
you don't get tips, so they don't feel like giving
you a good service. But Europeans feel like, you know,
they deserve a service regardless. But I had situations here.
I had a friend from Latin America coming here to
the United States and we went out to dinner and
we actually had a major fight about tippy because she
did not want to tip at all and I and
I just, yeah, I got a little annoyed with it
because I feel like it's I understand your point of view,
but at the same time, I feel like if you
are in a different country, you know, you have to
sort of adapt to the culture or the customs. You know,
if tippy is a thing he in the United States,
then you just have to go with it. It's just
the way it is.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: They rely on it, waiters rely on it, you know,
So I I understand. But at the same time, I
feel like, if you are in a different country, you
should sort of embrace how things are done. I do.
Speaker 1: For the most part, people have been pretty good about
it while they've been here.
Speaker 2: But I do also feel that we're way out of
line when it comes to tipping in this country. Now
that's a whole different story that. I mean, you get anything,
they ask you to tip for anything. Uh, So that's annoying.
And and they put you in a position where they
turn that thing around, that tablet around and and you know,
sort of like shame you if you don't tip anymore.
So it's complicated, but it's always it's very interesting every
time the topic comes up on social media, especially on TikTok.
They always, I mean, it's always a fight. It's always
this argument, especially between the United States and and your
when it comes to tipping. So, how do you feel
about it? Do you feel it's okay to tip? Do
you tip when you're in here? How do you feel
about the subject? And you, oh, you're asking I'm asking
our listeners in gen or how you feel if you
have any situation. Oh and then I had another friend
who didn't tip. He in the United State, and this
is hysterical. He left the restaurant, uh and the waiter
went after him, chased him down and ask him why
he didn't tip, And and and you know you didn't
like the service and it was something wrong why you
didn't tip and got him completely off course and he
didn't know what to say. But anyway, it it's yeah,
it's a complicated subject, but I feel like if you hear,
that's the bottom line to me is that if you hear,
then you should tip.
Speaker 1: I agree, all right, Why don't we take a short
break before we do that. I do want to run
down what we're doing this because I never even mentioned it.
It's mostly a TV talk episode except for Lorenzo's little
thing about tipping. We just went through. But we're doing
a TV talk episode, and when we come back, I
will talk about Spider Noir. Proud I will find you,
And we're the last part of this podcast. We're going
to talk about how said the Dragon.
Speaker 2: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be right back. We're back, and now we're
plunging into TV talk. I have been meaning to talk
a little bit about Spider Noir for a while, and
I'm kind of late. I didn't realize that that series
dropped almost a month ago. It dropped on Prime. It
stars Nicholas Cage. It's a sort of a take on
Spider Man. I'm actually a little surprised. As a longtime nerd,
I'm a little surprised that stories like this get told
because for the longest time, the conventional wisdom in the
world of comic books was that the quote unquote civilian
public could not handle things like multi verse variants and
that sort of thing. It was too complicated, it was
too nerdy, it was too offbeat. But you know, now
there's a whole TV series about a Spider Man variant
played by Nicholas Cage. Now, the Spider Verse was introduced
to the public in a series of animated films, and
Nicholas Cage played the Spider Noir character, or he voiced
the Spider Noir character in these films. But I remember
raising my eyebrow when I heard that he had been
cast in a live action version, because he is a
Spider Man character, and you know, Nicholas Cage is in
his sixties and looks at and I was like, how
is that gonna work? Bottom line is I actually don't
think it does. I was a little surprised because the
critics were kind of like pretty supportive of this when
it first came out. It was charming and worth your time,
and everything, and it is charming, And I won't tell
you whether it's worth your time or not, because maybe
charm is all you're looking for. Maybe Nicholas Cage is
all you're looking for. Maybe Brendan Gleeson as a nineteen
thirties you know gangster, which there is a lot of
fun in watching him say things like superpowers with his
with his Irish accent. But it really didn't grab me.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: In fact, I didn't finish it, and I am a nerd,
but I don't, for one thing, I don't think this
version of the character is all that interesting. I don't
think putting Spider Man in a nineteen thirties and war
detective storyline, it just doesn't grab me.
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes it works for a comic book,
but not for a movie for live action. I will
say that.
Speaker 1: The series looks amazing, and you have the option it's
on Prime video. You have the option of watching it
in black and white, are watching it in color?
Speaker 2: And you did both.
Speaker 1: I just think it's much more worth your time if
you're gonna do it, watch it in black and white.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: It's a noir, it's meant to be, you know, a
classic film noir. So watching it in color, I'm like,
why would you do that? When you switch over to
black and white, it looks amazing. I have to admit
the sets, and I realize everything must be digital. There's
a whole like vistas of New York, you know, streets
in the nineteen thirties that simply do not exist in
the real world today. So I have to assume all
of that stuff was done digitally. But it's really well done.
But I have to say something here, and I think
this might be blesphemy for some people. I don't think
Nicholas Cage is all that great an actor. I just don't.
I think he's extremely charismatic. I think in his best roles,
in his biggest roles, he's extremely watchable. He makes very
interesting choices as an actor, very unexpected choices as an actor.
So you're always as of you wer like sort of
on you know, on on your toes a little bit
with him because you really don't know where he's going
to go, where he's going to take a scene. And
that's a great quality. That is a really great quality.
But that doesn't all that up. But you still have
to have, you know, I'm not going to trash Nicholas Cage,
who is beloved. I find his acting very stiff, very
men and not very realistic, so it always it tends
to take me out of things. Agree when he's playing
total freak shows and can really get his freak on,
he's he's much more watchable. But in this one he's
like this gum shoe detective and he's doing this sort
of Humphrey Bogart kind of thing, and it just it
sounds bad to me. It just sounds bad to me.
Then there is the issue of when he's doing his
Spider Man stuff. Clearly it's all digital and stuntman because
you know, it's a full face mask. You can't see
him at all, and that becomes a problem because Nicholas
Case moves like a man in his sixties when he's not,
you know, so it's just noticeable. It's very very not
It's sort of like watching Yoda in the in the
prequel movies, like suddenly flipping around and spinning all over
the place. It just doesn't look right. There's just this
disconnect between sixty two or three year old Nicholas Cage
and the superhero that's like flipping and bouncing all over
the city, and like the two you can't you can't
marry them. It becomes way too obvious that we're not
looking at Nicholas Cage. We're looking at either a stuntman
or a digital creation.
Speaker 2: So that takes me out of it.
Speaker 1: It does have a lot of charm, but I think
that's literally the only thing it does have, and sometimes
you're gagging on it. There's a way to do these
sort of retro stories, especially when you're injecting like fantasy
or super heroic elements or science fiction elements into it.
Speaker 2: There's a way to do that.
Speaker 1: Like the old Agent Carter series that was on ABC
like ten years ago, was a melding of you know,
Marvel and classic nineteen forties adventure dramas.
Speaker 2: You can do it.
Speaker 1: It's possible, and I even think it's possible to do
a sort of Spider Noir ish Spider Man nineteen thirties
kind of take. But ultimately I think the concept and
the casting and the idea there's just too much that
the audience I can't speak for it. There's too much
for me to buy into. I'm like, all right, I
have to accept that there's a Spider Man detective in
the nineteen thirties. I have to accept that Nicholas Cage
is actually flipping around the city like that, and I
don't know the storyline. It's charming, there's a lot of
Easter eggs. If you know you're Spider Man continuity, there's
a lot of people that pop up names and everything
like that. But ultimately it's just I didn't I was
not grabbed by it. So that's my take on Spider Noir.
I would love to hear of any other nerds out
there watched it, finished it, liked it, hate me for
saying that Nicholas Cage is a bad after So I'd
love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know much about it. Bear watch a
little bit of one episode with you, and I felt
the same way. I was like, wow, he looks old.
Oh and then he's jumping like crazy like jumping around
and I'm like, that doesn't work. But it did look beautiful.
Speaker 1: It looks beautiful, and like I said, there's a lot
of charm in it, and I actually do like most
of the supporting cast, but I just, yeah, I can't
buy him in that role, and I don't think the
character is very interesting so no, I didn't finish it. Sorry,
but it wasn't for me. You finished I Will find You,
and I only sat in the background watching that piece
of garbage crap, youre crap. At a certain point you
watched it, so I'm going to turn the review over you.
But at a certain point some character was saying some
and it was the most the clumsy, most expositional dialogue,
where like I am explaining my relationship to you and
our entire history together and recapping what happened in the
last three apps. Like it's that kind of Netflix right
where they assume that you're not paying attention. There's a
lot of us and I just set out loud that
this is crap.
Speaker 3: To you.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is and you made a You
said it was like a Hallmark Lifetime and actually, like
a Hallmark is they are slicker than what we saw here.
I understand the comparison because it has that sort of
look no offense if you love those Hallmark Lifetime movies,
but they're not intellectual films, right, you know, Yeah, it's
pure mindless entertainment and it has that sort of feel
to it, except it's trying to do sort of a
suspenseful story, like we're not talking about like picking out
Christmas trees and falling in love, Like there's a suspenseful,
right impactful story there, and it's just everything's done in
the worst sort of television acting, the worst flattest directing,
and then the script is just just people explaining things
to each other constantly and saying each other's names. Anyway,
I will no no. I mean, if you're starting Sam
Worthington and Britt Lauer and it's about a father who
was imprisoned for killing his son, but he finds out
or suspects that his son is still alive and that
he breaks out of jail. This is all in the
first episode, so I'm not spoiling anything. But every time
I looked up, somebody was doing something so completely out
of pocket, like how did you get from being in
jail and now you're in a suit and you're like
breaking into some mansion.
Speaker 2: And I will give it a shot to pretty much
anything you know on Netflix. I'm a Netflix fan, so
and I was I'm not surprised that it's number one
show now on Netflix because people light you know, it's a.
Speaker 1: Laundry folding show. Yes, for people you know, and there's
nothing wrong.
Speaker 2: With I also thinks all the time. I don't mind
silly shows. I don't mind shows that you want just
to you. But when the writing is bed, when the
plot is bad, this is really really bad. You explain,
you know that if father goes to prison because they
think he killed his son and turns out he didn't,
I'm not spoiling anything. He wants to prove that he didn't.
And then they see a picture, you know, and there's
a kid in the back in the background, and they
so they think now and so they think the kid's alive,
and they he gets out of prison and tries you know,
it's the whole show is about him trying to prove
that he didn't kill his son. The son's still alive
and he needs to find the son. So it's an
interesting cast. I mean, britt Lauer is amazing and she
tries her best, you know, Yeah, but it doesn't work.
Sam more than to I don't know another one that's
I never thought. I never thought he was good. Uh.
Logan Brown gets the worst lines possible. She's she really does.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're a script, but every time I was like,
oh god, her lines are horrible.
Speaker 2: She's a cop and it's just bad, bad, bad Malanie Stowe.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know Madeline Stowe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Madeline Stee. I'm sorry she she's great as always,
but she's playing the evil mother. You know. It reminded
me of Revenge, you know, and Revenge work because he
was camped from from from the from.
Speaker 1: This should have been campy. If it had been campy,
this would have been a lot more interesting. But everyone's
playing it so strong.
Speaker 2: Seriously, you know. They taken this show very seriously, and
Revenge was just fun.
Speaker 1: You know, like if Britt Lauer had played this campy
or funny, I think she would have had a lot
of fun with it. You my little Vntimilia is in
it as well. He does look amazing. I will give
him that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if nothing else, he looks great. Eight he does,
so that's he's that.
Speaker 1: So he looks great. And clothes, I mean, oh my god,
like his clothes look really really good on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also like Jonathan Tucker. I always had a
thing for him. I think he's hot. Yeah, but anyway,
he's got that.
Speaker 1: White tresh look till he's hot white trash.
Speaker 2: See. I do like that. No, I know you do.
I do like that type anyway. So the men are hot.
If you want to watch watch it for the men
sometimes I do. Uh, And but it's just it every
now and then I was like shaking my head, like
what is going on here? Yeah, because they keep they
keep you know, discovering things and things show up, and
shows like these are are so terribly written because they
come up with the stupid, you know, explanation to justify
something that's going on, and you're like why what? Uh. Yeah, anyway,
it's a very silly show entertaining. But but no, I'm
that's not great.
Speaker 1: Two for two Spidan Noir and I will find you
there were thumbs down on both of them. We cannot
recommend either one. All right, we will take a short
break and then we're going to come back with a
show that we actually can recommend. We'll be right back.
We're back, uh. And now we're going to before we
launch into a I don't want to say a big discussion,
but our main discussion, which will be House of the Dragon,
we wanted to just take a second and tell you
about a show that you probably haven't heard of, that
hasn't gotten a lot of fanfare, but it might be
worth your time if you're interested. It's a show on
HBO Max called Proud and it is a Polish show.
And the one thing I will say that might make
it hard for people to get into is that it's dubbed.
Speaker 2: And I hate that it's dubbed. I didn't watch it dubbed.
Speaker 1: Oh I watched it.
Speaker 2: No, you must have it automatically set for for it,
you know.
Speaker 1: But you know what I was on Wait, wait, wait,
I was on my computer watching it and there was
no option. No. I watch it on TV and it
was oh, okay, Well that's good because now I have
to watch it again because it was very hard.
Speaker 2: No, god, no, okay.
Speaker 1: So that's a little helpful hint for you if you
just want the subtimee because I would have loved to
have listened to people speaking in Polish.
Speaker 2: God, that's so funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had to watch both episodes and I was like, wow,
that's that's kind of off put.
Speaker 2: Now there was no option on my computer to which
is a lot. Sometimes it happens on Netflix depending on
your saying, it comes automatically dumb and well, you know, anyways.
Speaker 1: Good to know, all right, so scratch everything. I just said,
but proud is a I don't think it's necessary. It's
it's called an LGBTQ drama, but I'm not entirely sure
that that's accurate. It's it's a family drama, it's a
it's a drama show, and it's it has queerness in it,
and of course the main character is queer. But by
the time I got to the second episode, the end
of the second episode, in that funeral scene, that scene
where they got drunk in the restaurant after the funeral,
I was like, this is not very queer. She's yelling
at her daughter that she has to go to college,
and she runs into her ex and everything, and she's
not even the main character. Don't get me wrong, it's
a queer show, but I think it manages to avoid
a lot of, say, the cliches of what you would
expect in a queer show. Let me just do with
the setup and then we can talk about it. This
is the setup. So this is not a spoiler, but
it's about a young twenty something, like early to mid
twenty something gay guy in Poland. I'm not sure they
named the city. I know it's not Crackow because someone
just arrived from Crackou in the second episode. I don't
know what city it is, but he is a model.
He's a pretty low rent model. He goes on casting
calls and everything, and he did a morning TV show
where he had to wear a speedo, so he's not
doing like high fashion runway work. And he's a hard partier,
and he clearly has some addiction issues, and he likes
to go out and get laid a lot. In some ways,
a very typical twenty something gay guy in an urban center.
He has a sister that he's living with and she
has a toddler, and spoiler, it happens halfway through the
first episode she dies. No, I mean it's the whole
premise of the show.
Speaker 2: Premise of the show.
Speaker 1: So he dies, and he is this irresponsible gay twenty
something face up. And what makes it sort of much
more poignant than simply, you know, a gay guy, a
gay fuck up needs to grow up. It's that he
and his sister were in the system. They grow up
in an orphanage, and in the brief scenes that they
have together before she's killed off, they talk about how
traumatizing that was, and it's pretty clear that a lot
of his issues come from that that he was abandoned
by his parents and dropped into an orphanage and it
was a terrible experience for him. Anyway, that's the setup
for it. I really loved it for a lot of
different reasons, but I think the main one was it's
not you just expect it's just going to be all
hot guys and sex and discothechts. And there's a lot
of that. First, not that much though, that's just it.
There's not as much of that as I would have expected.
It's a lot of him going out into the world
and just not being mature enough to handle anything.
Speaker 2: But I did. I really liked that.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of subtlety in the acting. It's not
trying to do anything too hard. The lead actor, Ignacia Lists,
is great because so charming. He's so like under affected.
He keeps it all of it, which I think is
very true of his generation, but also true of someone
in his situation who would probably not you know, you.
Speaker 2: Just mentioned something very interesting that is very true.
Speaker 3: Is that kind of look that doesn't show yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but he's got to stand yeah, and you want to
shake them and you want to slap them and most
of the other characters want to do the same thing.
Speaker 2: Sister try to do that. Yeah, I I'm always fascinated
by queer show, international queer shows. I mean, I would
call it a queer show, but anyway, it is been
released as a as a queer show. It's it's it's
one of the most talked about international shows right now.
Uh in Europe, everywhere it's it. It's getting a lot
of good buzz. And it's a great show. And especially
because it comes from Poland. You know, if you watch Poland,
Polish shows, Polish movies, it's you know, it's it's a
conservative country. Uh So to have a show like that,
I think it's fantastic. And I and and the choices
you just mentioned that it's not very queer or you know,
it's more about family. I wonder if that was deliberate,
you know, so that the show could have you know,
they could do the show and the show show in Poland,
or it's because they just felt like, let's tell let's talk,
let's tell a different story here, or maybe both. But
I it is very interesting. I love it because it's
all about fatherhood and you know, gay fatherhood.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. I think as an American watching this
show to you know, I won't claim that queer people
in America have had just we're just enjoying a free
ride at the moment. I won't claim that, but you
are faced with there's a different attitude in Poland about
gay man raising children. It's very clear that the idea
of him raising this child is a little strange to
some people in a way that it would you know,
if it was set in America or even Great Britain,
you wouldn't have that plotline. So it's it's kind of
nice to have this version of gay life that where
they're still fighting for things that we kind of take
for granted here in this country. And it's not illegal
for him to be a father, but it's much much
more difficult.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I mean, he that's probably the whole show
because we only have watched two episodes, only two episodes around,
that's probably what the show is about. They're going to
be about, is him trying to fight to have custody
of the.
Speaker 1: Daughter, presumably get his head on straight, no pun intended.
You know, he's got a lot of issues.
Speaker 2: He's good, yeah, he I mean he yeah, he does
all sorts of things. So so he's going to have
to be a little more responsible if he wants to,
you know, be in charge of the Little Girl. But
I I, like I said, I love these shows because
he gives you a little bit of a I don't know,
a look into queerness in a different country aside from
the United States. I just love every time I see
a show in a national show like this, I always
make sure that I watch because it's good. It's always good.
It's sometimes gives you and perspect him on exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And I have to say the Little Girl, she is
a horrible is absolutely adorable.
Speaker 2: It's really well done. It's beautiful. Yeah, to look at
it's a great show. It's not a low budget show.
It looks expensive, it looks nice.
Speaker 1: And I just think it's a very religiod gay gay
dude a side gay male model aside, it's actually a
very relatable story in a lot of way. It's about
family and drama and about your issues, and it's about
letting the people around you down and whether or not
you can figure out a way to stop doing that.
Speaker 2: I think, I think, if nothing else, that's the story here,
especially if you were single, if you're not married, if
you're not thinking of having kids, to be in that
situation where you know, your life is completely turned upside down,
you know, because of a certain you know, because of
something that happened to you or your family. So I
think it's interesting how you deal with it, you know,
and how that changed your life. So, if nothing else,
that's a show about that.
Speaker 1: Agreed. All right, let's talk a little bit about House
of the Dragon. Yes, this is probably going to go
a little bit longer than our other topics. Let me
first say this. I was not into it, and we've talked.
We did the first two seasons of the show. We
we recapped them here on the podcast. We did some
costume stuff early on. But this goes back to my
often stated point about modern television and the expectations that
people are going to wait two years in between seasons
for these extremely complicated storylines.
Speaker 2: You barely remember anything.
Speaker 1: And I with this time around, I was like, yeah,
I'm gonna watch it, and I'm going to regret if
I don't watch it. But I'm like, I'm not doing
any freaking homework. I'm not doing homework. And in fact,
to me, this goes it's sort of hand in hand
with how you know when you're reviewing or talking about
a show or a movie that has been adapted from
a book. I don't give a shit about the book.
We're going to review the TV show. We're going to
talk about whether the TV show. You know that sort
of thing. It's the same thing here where if I
have to go and do for five minutes of research
or I have to watch some video recapping the previous
season in order to understand what's happening in this episode,
that is a failure as a television show.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think. I think if you're a fan
of the books, great because you have all these knowledge,
right you understand all these characters, the history and everything,
especially because this is very much true with this story
that there's a lot of history. The second season was
all about their history, right Uh, and then now we
have all these battles going on. But if you if
you haven't read the book, you are any show out there.
I think I think you should be able to enjoy
a show even if you.
Speaker 1: Stand on it. Yeah, I agree, And it's the same
thing an episode of television. I realized that you have
to you have to know if you're in the third
season of a serialized drama, you have to know everything
that happened before, But I shouldn't have to do research
to figure out what happened before. Having said all of that,
because that was my attitude going into it, while I
was watching this first episode, I was I had to
begrudgingly say, you know what, they're really doing a very
very good job of clearly getting you back into the story.
I can't remember every nu once and every time a
character popped up, I was like, oh yeah, what's their
story again, like uh huh. And some of that I
really don't remember. Because that's the thing about House of
the Dragon. Massive cast, massive cast, And I know Game
of Thrones also had a massive cast, but I feel
like I feel like Game of Thrones slowly expanded its cast,
whereas with this one, you were thrown everybody everybody like
in the first You know, Game.
Speaker 2: Of Thrones did a very good job introducing the characters
over time. Because I never read the books and I
was totally fine with what I was watching. You know,
I didn't need anything else. Uh here, I feel like
I need I need a little bit more information. But
Game of Thrones it just went you know, slowly introducing everybody,
and it was fine. Here, I don't know, I feel
like I need a little more like backstory.
Speaker 1: When they cut to the what are they called, the
dragon Seeds, the three guys who yeah, yeah, they cut
to them, and I'm like, oh, right, right, what are
their stories again? Like and I know, like, for instance,
the blonde guy, Hugh Hammer, who I actually think that
guy's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Oh he is gorgeous.
Speaker 1: They cut to him at one point, and then there
was some reference to his background. I'm like, I I
think there was an episode about him, but I really
don't remember it. Like, and that's the sort of stuff
where I'm like, well, if the show can figure out
a way to convey this information to me, fine, But
I Am not running off to Wikipedia or doing anything
like that. Because this is the other thing I want
to say before we get into the episode, which is
that app su are a Night of the Seven Kingdoms
premiered earlier this year, which was the third West Ross
or George R. R. Martin adaptation, and unlike the first two,
House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones, the whole
vibe of that show is very different. It's a lot lighter,
the stakes are a lot less serious. There are very
likable characters. The lead character is just someone you would
fall in love with. And it was a much gentler
take on this kind of story, and I loved it.
And I was like, I don't know if I want
to go back into all this dragony, incesty, bullshit. These
people are awful, and I have to admit that will
be for me going forward with this show. I have
not soured on this show, and when we come back
from the break, I want to talk about why I
haven't soured from this show. But I have to admit
i'd take a much more you need to impress me
kind of stance with it. Need to get this exactly right,
because otherwise I don't know how invested I am in
this anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've I've read a lot of criticism
of the show about trying to compromise between the book,
the insane history of the book of all these characters,
many many, many details, and and and entertaining an interesting
TV show, right, and it's it's hard, it's it's difficult,
and and make some of these people likable. That's the
other thing people were talking about, like because they're horrible
in the book, and you know it's hard to do.
Speaker 1: That's something that is my main complaint about where the
show is right now, Why don't we take a break
and we'll get into it right right, Okay, we'll be
right back. We're back, and we're diving into House of
the Dragon. Uh, first episode of season three and going
to your likable point that you said before the break.
This something where I mean, I wrestle with this sometimes
because I think the modern complaint about likable characters is
is it can be kind of childish, Like I agree,
there are you know, I don't have to love characters,
Lear King Lear, you know, like you don't need to
love the people that it's you can do great drama
about terrible people. My issue with this show is not
that there's no one likable in the show, although it does.
It does drag sometimes because it's like what I mean,
when we were watching Jasarah's sink into the ocean at
the end of this episode, I was like, what the
fuck man, everybody's so goddamn stupid in this show.
Speaker 2: They're either stupid or they're evil or both, and that that.
Speaker 1: Can be I guess My point is there's no fun,
asshole there's no fun asshole on this show, is there?
Speaker 2: There? Really isn't. Everyone is just sneeringly.
Speaker 1: Awful or stupid or delusional. And this is something I
want to get into. Allison. I think I hate that
character the most out of all of them, because the
show insists on trying to give her nuance and it's like, no,
I'm sorry the one tear rolling down her face as
her fucked up son tries to make out with her,
and I'm like, lady, this is a result of twenty
five years of you making horrible, horrible decisions for yourself
and for your family, and I'm supposed to feel sorry
for you that all of your monster children are making
your life hell. And she's like worried about whether her
plan is going to worry. I'm like, you're horrible. If
the show would just let and that's the thing, like
let one of them be evil bitch, like awful, horrible bitch.
But instead it's like, well, let's find nuance, right, And
then you have ray Nira, who I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 2: She's particularly likable either.
Speaker 1: That's not a problem. My problem with Rhanira isn't so
much that she the show tries to make her more
new ones than she is. Is that the show doesn't
seem to want to unpack how goddamn stupid she is, like,
come on, you're stupid. At the point where she's like,
we're just gonna fly in and take over, and her
whole counsel is like, no, that's a terrible life, she's like, no, no,
it'll be great, And I'm like, why am I watching this?
Speaker 2: Moral? But if you die? Why am I watching you?
You're so stupid?
Speaker 1: This is my problem. It's not I don't need you
to be likable. I need you to be entertaining. And
you're stupid and you're evil, and neither one of you
are fun to watch.
Speaker 2: It's a shame because these are two main characters the
whole story rests on, right, and they're female characters, which,
you know, you would want female characters to be a
little more a little stronger than that, with you know,
with a little more power than that. But it feels
like they they kind of know what they want, but
they always rely on the man of the show.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the point.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's part of the book, Maybe that's part of
the story. You know, that's how it is. Uh, But
at the same time, I don't know, I feel like
they could be a little more manipulative, I don't know,
in a in a more powerful way. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean like you certainly saw that on Game of Thrones.
You it was women working within the same system, right,
who were smarter about wielding power than these two women,
who are actually two of the most powerful women in
wester Rows. Why are you two such fuck ups? Why
are you so dumb? Why do you get caught up
in these brands that everyone around you was like, no,
don't do that, that would be stupid. That's my problem
with the show. It's not it's not that it's unlikable
people doing terrible things. It's that it's it's it's uninteresting
people doing dumb things.
Speaker 2: That's really it.
Speaker 1: It's uninteresting people doing some things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it always making bad decisions in general wage and
you feel like you, you know, and it's a little
disappointed because you' I feel like they're smarter than that.
As character, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I do want to say, for instance, because I brought
up the dragon seeds, there is clearly an attempt to make,
especially a character like Olf sort of humorous and funny
and this roguish sort of asshole, and I have no
problem with that. In fact, I would want more of that.
I also like she was only in it briefly this episode.
Alice Rivers, who plays the Witch, Oh right, right, I
like that's another character who's like quirky and weird and
kind of entertaining to what like, if you give me
those characters, I'm fine, you give me, I'd listen. I
really like Matt Smith. I was a huge fan of
his doctor who and I actually I don't hate this
character or this portrayal of this character. He's just very
one note. You can't do anything with that character except
be a sneering, violent asshole all the time.
Speaker 2: That's all he is, and that's all he is, and
it's like.
Speaker 1: Well, I again, Game Thrones did a better job. Game
of Thrones was full of assholes and bitches, and it
did a better job of making all of those assholes
and bitches entertaining to watch. You didn't have to root
for them, you didn't have to like them, but you
couldn't wait to see what they were going to do next.
And I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I
was going to going into it because it's so well
written and well directed and well acted, but the story, Like,
I ultimately I don't think you can dress up this
story any more than they have, Like that's it. This
is the story. Dumbass, inbred people who are evil fighting
over something that you know no one would want them
to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of the fans of
the book loved the battle, of course, because they were
waiting for it and it was beautiful. I mean, it
was insane, and the fact they were saying why didn't
they have it into the second season but apparently becasing
and what they didn't have the budget for it. It
didn't have the budget.
Speaker 1: It was a strange way to open a season because
you were plunged right into all these storylines immediately and
then suddenly there's a big battle. It really was kind
of that would have been a great season finale to
be honest.
Speaker 2: Yes, but they didn't have the budget. Apparently they had
to wait until season three. But I do enjoy like
Lorid Corrus the whole you know, fighting with with what's
her name, Schiroco Lohar.
Speaker 1: That's another one, who Abigail Thorne, who is awesome. Yeah,
give me characters like that, Like, she's clearly not a
likable person, she's clearly not an ethical person. I don't
have to root for her, but I don't know what
the hell she's going to do next. And that's the
kind of stuff I want to see on this show.
Of course, they killed her off, but right they yah, yeah, yeah,
so we'll see. It's just, it's all, it's constantly watching
idiots do idiotic like just Sarah's just Sarah's sinking into
the ocean at the end, and I'm like, am I
supposed to be upset that he died? I'm more upset
than is his dragon died. But that's actually upsetting when
you watch that him, I don't give a ship. You're
an idiot. You're just an idiot. You're an in Well
he's actually not inbread.
Speaker 2: They are mostly idiot.
Speaker 1: It's well, no one's standing on principal, no one's fighting
for a cause you're all just inbred idiots and they There.
Speaker 2: Was also a lot of talk about Rain and the
dragon that she was not prepared.
Speaker 1: To Again, yeah, I get it, she's young, but also,
you you dumb ass, you dumbs you flew that thing,
that nuclear weapon that you can't control roughly into a.
Speaker 2: Battle, and he was like killing everybody.
Speaker 1: What I'm like, oh, poor Rhina, I'm supposed to feel sorry.
Speaker 2: For that, you know, apparently in the book is somebody
else writing, Yeah, he's a more interesting character, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Matt Damon's character sleeps with her, but I know
in this version she's his daughter, but of course that
wants pop him from sleeping wether. So who knows.
Speaker 2: What else?
Speaker 1: Let me think we did the dragon Seeds. We did well,
there's a whole story right near Allison's oh oh agon
and Laris fleeing.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes again again.
Speaker 1: All he had to do was bend the knee and
they would have been fine, but that idiot quick knew it.
And I'm like, all right, well, please someone behead this morn,
Please take his head off. Having said that, I do
think those two are actually kind of entertaining to watch.
And I have no idea where this stuff is going.
I did read all of the Wikipedia entries on these
characters and this storyline two years ago when the show
first came out, and I have a general sense of
where things wind up, but specific characters, no, I don't
know where they're going to wind up. You know, so
I don't know what's happening with those two. But there
are two characters. I'm like, all right, fine, I'm fine
with seeing where you guys take this.
Speaker 2: And there's a king who fled very I mean, that's
what I'm talking about. That's the one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one I think aimon the one who's
declaring himself king. Now, I think that guy's great. Iwin
Mitchell Ewan Mitchell the actor, and he's clearly doing a
riff on Matt Smith.
Speaker 2: Like, but that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's well, you're almost identical characters. You're literally almost identical,
and your performances are exactly the same. So I'm like,
you know, I get it right, you're in bred family
and so you're you know, you all kind of look
alike an act alike. But he's not one of my faves, right,
and not because he's evil. Same thing with uh, Sir
Christen Cole Fabian Frankel. I think they made that guy
such an asshole that there's I'm like, well, why am
I watching you? And again this comes down to I
don't need you to be likable. I need you to
be funny or entertaining or wild or something, and he's
just this sour in celt who seems to hate women,
and they gave him sword.
Speaker 2: I think that's what's a show missing. Like Game of Thrones,
I remember, you had the battles, you had the fights
and families and all that, but you also had some humor,
you know, constantly, constantly lines and some just high adventure,
just fun, adventurous stuff. But you need a break every
now and then. It can't be just you know, very
much by the book as it feels like that. But
they are taking some I don't know, they're they're not
following the book entirely. There's sometimes they're they're going and
doing something different. That's what I that's my understanding. So
we'll see. I as you said, I want to watch
the show. I haven't read the books. I mean, if
you read the books, that great. I'm actually jealous of
the people who read the book. But I don't feel
like I have to read the books to enjoy a show.
I just want to enjoy it. I'm in it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's well act. That cast is. It's
a really good cast, even if I don't think the
writing gives them as much to do as I would like.
It's beautifully directed, and there is some incredible dialogue in it,
so there's quality all throughout this show. But I think
the story itself, it's just it's flawed. Like there's only
so much you can do with a story like That's
you know, George R. R. And Martin wrote these stories
self contained. You read them all and you were done
two weeks later or whoever long it took you. But
to drag a story like this out over years and
years and years to a television series, it's kind of
relentless and numbing.
Speaker 2: I think it's a challenge to water down something and
then stretch stretch it out for so long.
Speaker 1: This story is not that complicated, it's hard to do.
And like I said, when Alison was, you know, walking
into the Throne room trying to figure out what she
was going to do, and I'm like, yeah, I don't
care because you're so dumb. You're so dumb. Every decision
you have made was either dumb or evil, and just
years of watch you and trying to make you much
more interesting or new ones and you're not. You want
power for yourself and for your family. Raniera wants power
for herself and for her family.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: You can't make it more interesting than that. Anyway, I'm
in it. I'm in it for the rest of the season.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: If if this season goes south for whatever reason, if
like then I might not come back to it, because,
like I said, I'm only I'm not hanging on by
a thread. But I am hanging on and we'll see.
I just think Night of the Seven Kingdoms showed me
a different way of doing things.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1: Anyway, the construction is starting up next story, Yes, so
we should probably wrap things up. We will be back tomorrow.
We're watching The Bride, very excited for that for the
Bitter Kitten Movie Club. And we'll be back next week
with more on the next episode of House of the Dragon.
Whatever else cross our eyes or crosses our desk, we'll
be I screwed it up, Okay, love you mean it,
but ba