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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, here's the clips of Elon musk latest interview

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by nik kil Kamat.

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Speaker 2: I said earlier, young, ambitious, hungry want to be entrepreneurs

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in India. I said something recently which I think got

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blown out of proportion where I was suggesting that an

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NBA degree might not make sense anymore if they were

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to be deciding on what to study.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think it should go to college anymore?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think if you want to go

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to college for social reasons, I think, which is I

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think a reason to go to be around people your

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own age in a learning environment. Will these skills be

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necessary in the future. Probably not, because we're going to

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be in like a post work society. But I think

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if if if something is of interest, it's fine to

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go and study that, you know, to study that the

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sciences are the Austin sciences.

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Speaker 2: Is college a bit too generalized and not specific from

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that lens.

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Speaker 4: You know the Yeah, I actually think it's good to

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take a wide range of courses at college if you're

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going to go to college. H I don't think. I

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don't think you have to go to college, but I

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think if you do, just try to learn learn as

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much as possible across a wide range of subjects. But

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like I said, the AI and robots, AI and robotics

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is a supersonic tsunami. So this is really going to

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be the most radical change that we've ever seen. You know,

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when I've talked to my oldest sons, I you know

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It' said, like, you know, you guys, they're they're they're

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pretty steeped in technology. Then they agree that that AI

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will probably make their skills unessa in the future, but

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they still want to go to college.

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Speaker 2: You always spoke about AI, not from the dystopian lens,

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but you were worried about where the world of AI

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is going.

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Speaker 4: Uh, well, there's there's some danger when you create a

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powerful technology. That powerful technology can be potentially destructive. So

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there's obviously many AI dystopian you know, novels and books, movies.

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So it's it's not that we're guaranteed to have a

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positive future with with AI. I think we've we've got

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to make sure that in my opinion, it's very important

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that AI have pursuing truth as the most important thing, Like,

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don't force an AI to believe falsehoods. I think that's

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that can be very dangerous, and I think some appreciation

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of beauty it's important.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean appreciation of beauty?

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Speaker 4: It's just like what what, I don't know? This this

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this this Truth and beauty, Truth and beauty and curiosity.

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I mean, I think those are the three most important

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things for AI. Can you explain, well, the truth? I

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said true truth is like, I think you can make

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an AI go insane if you force it to believe

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things that aren't true, because it will lead to conclusions

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that are that are also bad. So and I like

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Voltaire's statement that, and I'm somewhat paraphrasing, but those who

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believe in absurdities can commit atrocities because if you believe

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in something that's just absurd, then you can that can

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lead you to sort of doing things that don't seem

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like atrostees to you. But and that can happen in

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a very bad way with AI potentially. So, and then

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there's like if take say arthusy Clocks two thousand and

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one Space Odyssey. One of the points he was trying

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to make there was that you should not force AIS

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to lie. So the the reason that that Hell would

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not open the pod Bay doors is because it was

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told to bring the astronauts to the monolith, but that

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they could also not know about the nature of the monolith.

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So it came to the conclusion that must bring them

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there dead. That's why it would not That's where they

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tried to kill asmals. The central lesson being don't force

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an AI to lie.

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Speaker 3: Then why would one for AI to lie?

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Speaker 4: I think if if you if you simply don't have

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a strict a strict adherence to the truth you're going

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to and you just have an AI learned based on

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say the Internet, where there's a lot of propaganda, it

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will absorb a lot of lives and and then have

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trouble reasoning because these lies are incompatible with reality.

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Speaker 2: It's truth or binary thing. Though is there a truth

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in the falsehood? Or is truth more nuanced than there

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are versions.

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Speaker 3: Of the truth.

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Speaker 4: It depends on which which axiomatic statement you're referring to.

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So but I think you could say that, yeah, that

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there's there's probabilities that that say, any given axiomatic statement

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is true, and some aximatic statements will have very high

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probaty of being being true. So you said, say the

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sun will rise tomorrow very likely to be true. You

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wouldn't want a better against that, So I think the

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betting odds would be high. The sun rise tomorrow, so

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befare something that says, well, the sun world right tomorrow.

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That's axiomatically false. It was highly unlikely to be true.

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I mean, the beauty is more ephemeral, it's it's it's

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harder to describe, but do you know it when you

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see it? And then curiosity just I think you want

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the AI too, want to know more about the nature

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of reality. I think that's actually going to be helpful

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for AI, supporting humanity because we are more interesting than

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not humanity. So it's it's more interesting to see to

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see the continuation, if not the prosperity of humanity, than

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to exterminate humanity. Mars, for example, is you know, I

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think we should extend life to Mars. But it's basically

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a bunch of rocks. It's not as interesting as Earth

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and and and so we yeah, we should like yeah,

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I think I think if you have curiosity, I think

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if those three things happen with AI, you're going to

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have a great future. They values, truth, beauty, and curiosity.

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Speaker 2: If we all don't have to work in the future,

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and AIS are going in this direction, and they're able

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to the even all that we spoke about right now,

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do you think humanity goes back a couple of thousand

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years to maybe the Greek times where philosophy or philosoph a.

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Speaker 3: Couple lot of everyone's then, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, I think actually it took up less time than

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we think in ancient Greeks, because it's just that the

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writings of the philosophers are what survived. But most of

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the time people were just like farming or you know, chatting,

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so and once in a while, quite rare, they would

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write down some philosophical philosophical work. It's just that that's

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that's all we have. That's don't We don't have their

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chat histories, you know, from but most of it would

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have been like chat and farmbing because you didn't farm.

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You you're like gonna stop.

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Speaker 3: In a lot of what you said.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we're really history like this this

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battle and this battle and this battle. It seems like

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if history must have been NonStop war, but actually most

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of the time it was not war. It was farming

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that was the main thing. Well, hunting and gathering, you

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know that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: You love history, you know, German History, World War Two,

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World War One.

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Speaker 4: Old history. I mean I generally try to listen to

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as many read as many history books, and listen to

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as many history podcasts as possible. Anything you'd like to recommend, Well,

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there's this this hardcore History which is quite good by

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Dan Colin. He's got very he's got a great voice

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and very compelling narrator. There's the The Adventurers podcast. There's

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the books The Story of Civilization by Durant, which is

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a long series of books, very very deep. Those books

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take a long time to get through. There's quite there's

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there's a lot out there. I sort of like if

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you want, if you want something that's sort of gentle,

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a gentle bedtime podcast, I say The History of English

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is quite a nice one because it starts off with

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like gentle tavern music and a very pleasant voice, and

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he's like talking about the story of Old English and

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then Middle English and then later English and where did

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all these words come from? And you know, one of

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the interesting things about English is that it's somewhat of

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an open source language, like it actively tried to incorporate

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words from many other languages, so you know, whereas French

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sort of generally they fought the inclusion of words from

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other languages, but English it's actively sought to include words

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from other languages, sort of a kind of like an

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open source language. So as a result, it has a

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very large vocabulary, and large vocabulary allows for higher bandwidth

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communication because you can use a word that would otherwise

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you could use a single word that might otherwise take

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a sentence to convey.

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Speaker 3: Why has podcasting become so big all of us?

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Speaker 4: I think it's been big for a while. I'm gonna

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want your podcast. What are on right now?

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Speaker 2: It's kind of new to me, Okay. I was having

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this conversation with the YouTube CEO and the Netflix CEO,

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and we were debating what chemical is released in your

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brain when you consume a movie, for example, versus when

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you consume a podcast where you think like you're learning

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something in the background. It appears that there are two

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completely separate things. What do you think will happen tomorrow

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to contend movies podcasting?

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Speaker 4: I think I think it's going to be overwhelmingly AI generated. Yeah, yeah,

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like yeah, real real time, real time movies and video games.

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Real time video generation, I think is where things are headed.

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Speaker 3: The nuance of.

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Speaker 2: Having a scarred human being who you can resonate with

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in a manner that you can't with AI.

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Speaker 4: For example, I could certainly emulate as God human being

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quite well. Yeah, I mean the AI video generation that

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I'm seeing of Xai and from others is pretty impressive.

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Speaker 2: You know, we were looking at data around what industry

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is growing the fastest, and especially when we looked at

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the amount of time consuming movies versus time spent on

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social media, time spent on YouTube, what seems to be

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growing really fast. Are live events all over again?

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Speaker 4: Going to a Actually, I think I think live events

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when when when digital media is ubiquitous and you can

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just have anything digitally ayah, essentially for free or very

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close to for free, then the scarce commodity will be

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live events.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that the premium for that will go up?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I do.

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Speaker 3: Good industry to invest in.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, because that will have more scarcity than digital

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anything digital.

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Speaker 2: If you were to stock investor elon, buy one company

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which is not your own at the valuations of today

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to meet a capitalistic end and not an altruistic one

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which is good for the world, what would you buy?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't really I don't really you know,

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buy stocks, you know, so it's not like I'm not

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I'm not like an invest in I don't like look

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for things to invest in. I just try to build

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things and then there happens to be stock of the

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company that I built. But I I don't I don't

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think about should I invest in this company? Well, I

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don't have like a portfolio or anything. So I guess

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a I and robotics are going to be very important,

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So I suppose it would be a robotics that's that,

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you know, d related to me. I think, you know,

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Google is going to be pretty valuable in the future

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that they've they've laid the groundwork for an immense amount

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of value creation from an AI standpoint, and video is

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obvious at this point. I mean, there's an argument that

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companies that do AI and robotics and maybe spaceflight are

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going to be overwhelmingly that all the value, almost all

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the value, So they're just the output of goods and

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services from air and robotics are so high that it

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will dwarf everything else.

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Speaker 2: The world seems to be moving to a place where

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everybody loves David and hates Golia.

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Speaker 4: It. I mean, he's the one that cooked the stone

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in the forest, you know, which, honestly though, was just

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a big mistake. You should have, you know, either cover

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yourself entirely with armor and make sure you've got to

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missile weapon some kind. Otherwise your opponent is just obviously

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going to take a cite the boss strategy. Just guide

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the bars. I mean, you run around in a song

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with it, it doesn't matter, you know, it's never never

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going to catch you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of all of all the people like, uh, you're

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as much at risk of being looked upon as go light,

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especially the weekend.

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Speaker 4: Especially, I'm not going to travel around in the desert

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with too much armor, you know, too hard after the

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last Yeah, I surpise to think about people like in

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the old days, you know, when uh, you know it's

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supposed to like go into battle with all this armor,

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but it's like, let's say it's the middle of summer.

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I mean it basically so hot in that armor, you

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maybe like sweltering. You know, it's like at a certain point,

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you like, I'd rather die. I have to wear this

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armor one more in the hot sun. It's like I'd

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rather die. And that's why the Romans I had, like

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you know, the skirts, you know, because I could get

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some air in there, you know. You know, let's say

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you have to go to the bathroom when you're an armor.

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I mean, it's going to be pretty difficult. You're going

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to do a ports for a minute, take your armor up.

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That's why that the Romans had the skirts, so that mates,

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you know, going to the bathroom at least manageable.

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Speaker 3: You often make jokes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I like humor. One could argue I think we

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should legalize humor. It's controversial stance.

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Speaker 3: It's comedy.

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Speaker 2: Comedy going to be really hard for you to get

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probably the last thing.

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Speaker 4: Groc can be pretty funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I suspected, like this is a

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far off extrapolation, but when I see you make jokes

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on Twitter, on X and on interviews that you do,

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at some point I.

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Speaker 3: Was like, maybe Elon has a model.

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Speaker 2: He's running in private and he's testing out comedy because

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the day that works, he knows it's there.

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Speaker 4: Uh yeah, And I can be pretty funny. So like,

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if you ask Groc to do like a vulgar ust,

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we'll do a pretty good job. If even more vulgar,

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and just keep going, it's really gonna get next level,

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it's gonna do unspeakable like say, vulgar ust yourself on

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grok and it's gonna do unspeakable things to you.

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Speaker 3: What kind of comedy do you like?

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Speaker 4: I guess I like it so of humor.

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Speaker 3: M hm. Comedy always had a police something like that.

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Speaker 2: Comedy always had a place in society wherein the role

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of the jester was so important to every kingdom because

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they said things in a funny way that could not

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be said in a straightway.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess so we should have more justice.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're trying to do when you say

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something which is a joke, say something you can't when

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you're not joking about it.

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Speaker 4: I just like humor. I think we should. I like comedy.

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I think it's funny if people should laugh. Yeah, it's good,

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good to a few chuckles once in a while. Yeah, well,

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I mean we don't want to have a humorless society.

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We try. When you.

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Speaker 2: When you have a friend, elone me, Yeah, a friend,

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when you hang out with your friend, who are you like?

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Speaker 3: I know that.

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Speaker 4: I wish I had friends, you know, have I do

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have friends? I think? So? Yeah? Sure, it's yeah, we

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have good laugh.

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Speaker 2: What does it look like like what's like every group

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has a dynamic.

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Speaker 4: Eat food sometimes, you know, once while we swimming the pool,

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you know, normal things. I think there's like a limited

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What are the things I wanting to do with friends?

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You know, chat have discussed, you know, the nature of

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the universe.

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Speaker 3: What do you emotionally get out of friendship?

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I think there the same thing as

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any anyone else would get out of friendship. You want

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to have like an emotional connect with other people, and

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you want to I don't know, you want to You

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want to talk about various subjects, and yeah, I mean

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generally talk about I mean a wide range of things

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about the nature of the universe. I mean a lot

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of a lot of philosophical discussions. You know, although you know,

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we have come to conclusion that we should not talk

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about AI or the simulation at parties because we just

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talked about it too much. You know, I was kind

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of a viskill of time, so.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember who it was, Aristotle or Plato. They

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had a framework for how to pick a friend based

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on respect.

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Speaker 3: And mutual admiration. But people don't pick friends like that.

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Even me.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I pick my friends based on people

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who say and think in a manner that I can

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resonate with. I wouldn't pick a far out the contrariant

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to my own belief systems as a friend, because it

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would get tiring, would get tired. Are you like that?

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Do you pick friends who think like you? Or do

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you look for the one who can debate you and

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be a contrarient.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not sort of you know, going on like

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f friend, it's not down some friends. It's sort of yeah,

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I mean I think it is just sort of people

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that you're resonated with somewhat on an emotional and intellectual level.

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And yeah, yeah, you know. And and if I guess

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a friend is someone who's gonna support you in difficult times,

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I suppose for a friend of need his friend indeed,

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like like if if like friend, like if someone is

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still supporting you when the chips are down, that's a friend.

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You know. If somebody is uh not supporting you, or

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if somebody is only like there's like fair farewell, the

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friends are useless, you know, they're not real friends. So

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like everyone likes you when the chips are up, but

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who likes you when the chips are down?

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Speaker 3: With someone who has as many chips as you wouldn't matter.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's relative. You know, it's not just it's

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not just a chips thing. It's just it's just like

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a uh yeah, I mean there's there's sort of popularity

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waxes and ways.

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Speaker 3: This is interesting. Does it wax in wain.

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Speaker 2: Only by virtue of the number of chips or also

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by virtue of proximity to power?

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Speaker 3: And which one is bigger of the two?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, Like what is power? You know, like

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power to do what.

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Speaker 2: I would I would think in the traditional sense electric

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power position.

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Speaker 4: I mean, how many gigats or whatever?

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Speaker 3: More like how many words?

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Speaker 4: Ye, Like it's a voltage and a don't touch the wires,

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don't put a folk in the power outlet. You'll get

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a real feeling for power if you do that. Yeah,

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it's gonna be very virtual.

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Speaker 3: Uh. I know, I know you like Nietsche and chopping hour,

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and they.

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Speaker 2: Read you talk about how your childhood was.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was just trying to find answers to

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the meaning of life when I had like an excidential

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crisis and like I don't know, when I was like

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twelve or thirteen or something.

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Speaker 3: They speak about the bill to power.

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Speaker 4: Sure. I mean it's just said a lot of controversial things,

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you know what I mean. It's sort of like he was.

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I mean a bit of a troll. If you ask me, yeah,

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are you true health? You just say controversial things to

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get out of right out of people?

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Speaker 3: He did a miserable life and died early?

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Speaker 4: Did he?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: How do you say he lived in miseral life? I think, okay,

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we shouldn't like him.

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Speaker 3: I think he got sick and he died.

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Speaker 4: I mean allegedly for something. But there's only one There's

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only one way to get that, you know, so you

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must he might have had something along the way.

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Speaker 2: I did want to ask you this. Milton Friedman speaks

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about the pencil?

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Speaker 4: What why? Why does he go on about pencils?

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Speaker 3: I have to say that after nieation.

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Speaker 4: Why is it he's talking about pencils? There he goes

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again with the pencil. He won't stop. I got a

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value one talks about pencil one more time. I'm gonna

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lose my mind. He is rabbit on about pencils all day.

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I even mentioned crayons.

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Speaker 3: What I find interesting about his pencil argument?

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you want to

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listen to full interview in this podcast, The link is

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in description