Speaker 1: Big food and be on.
Speaker 2: With Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 1: These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and
Speaker 1: raid it lip Story and me.
Speaker 2: Righteous to go on.
Speaker 3: Yes today listening watching, always keep its watching.
Speaker 4: And now you're hosts Cliff Berkman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 4: All right, folks, we're here with a little update for
Speaker 4: the most popular guests we've ever had. Sarah from episode
Speaker 4: of fifty five. You all remember Sarah. We are at
Speaker 4: the North American big Foot Center Cliff Museum in Boring, Oregon,
Speaker 4: and she's had some stuffs since her last appearance on
Speaker 4: the show, so we decided to hook up and we're
Speaker 4: all here and we're gonna hear what she has going
Speaker 4: on lately. Hello, Sarah and Greg, thanks for coming on. Hello.
Speaker 5: Sure it wasn't even mentally prepared. I just wanted to
Speaker 5: go squatching. Yeah, well that's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I'm sitting here at the NABC right next to
Speaker 5: the Peter Burn and Larry Lund gearbox.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Larry gave me that. Peter Burn gave a
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff in there, and a lot of it's
Speaker 2: on the wall. You probably saw the Peter stuff on
Speaker 2: the wall outside, but that's what it all came in.
Speaker 2: And that was Peter's trunk right there, and you know, epic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this is backstage of course, nobody can just see this.
Speaker 5: So great up here and the museum is just so
Speaker 5: exciting and I could be in there for days. I
Speaker 5: was thinking, we're going to have to camp out in
Speaker 5: here overnight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should do over night trips like you know,
Speaker 1: like the Monarchy right right, we did that the ghost in.
Speaker 2: The Ghost There are ghosts here?
Speaker 5: Are there?
Speaker 2: Melissa is convinced of it. I'm not. Melissa's The museum
Speaker 2: members get a documentary that we make in the museum
Speaker 2: every single month, oh right, and one of them was
Speaker 2: a ghost ton on Halloween. Oh that's far Halloween at
Speaker 2: you know, just a little bit of fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, go scare me, not big foots.
Speaker 4: So last time we had Sarahan, you told some stories
Speaker 4: that happened at home, and Greg, you heard you heard
Speaker 4: some of the things that happened right back your house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well wait for where didn't you hear.
Speaker 4: The one run through like the down the road and screaming.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Truckie that was the weirdest thing. We
Speaker 1: were sitting the are yeap and something in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night was extremely loud, moving very fast, running
Speaker 1: down the road and making a noise that was you
Speaker 1: could hear it from the left of the houses were
Speaker 1: laying there in bed and then just continued and then
Speaker 1: faded out for about I don't know, maybe about thirty
Speaker 1: five seconds, and it just continued. It was not a car,
Speaker 1: It wasn't.
Speaker 2: Was it one cont like it was, Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: one constant.
Speaker 5: It was not a yell like that. It was like
Speaker 5: an autis old grunt.
Speaker 1: It was kind of but it was like it was.
Speaker 5: Almost like a scream intermitten screen kind.
Speaker 1: Of kept on a little louder, a little softer, a
Speaker 1: little louder, a little softer than it eventually worked its
Speaker 1: way out and it was gone, and we just.
Speaker 5: That thing moved from one corner of the entire neighborhood
Speaker 5: all the way through and our house was situated right
Speaker 5: next to this little open space trail that the kids
Speaker 5: used to cut through to get to the school that
Speaker 5: we lived near. And it was up in the mountains.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: That thing ran from the woods and probably from like
Speaker 5: the river, like the Trucky River, all the way out
Speaker 5: across towards the meadows and maybe the other side of
Speaker 5: the river because the subdivision is right on a big turn.
Speaker 1: It was a flat plane, you know. And then the
Speaker 1: river was on three sides of us, and it must
Speaker 1: have come up from one side and then made this
Speaker 1: strange sound as it continued and early early morning, nobody
Speaker 1: was out driving, No kids were on their older car
Speaker 1: that would make a screech as it went down the road.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a oily or a mechanical screech.
Speaker 4: It was really odd slapping too.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, we heard. You could hear it running like
Speaker 5: a padded steps, you know, or running on cement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all dirt, paved saved roads and then dirt
Speaker 1: on the little trail cut through right next to our house.
Speaker 5: So it came like right past our our house in
Speaker 5: our backyard.
Speaker 1: And those houses. I mean it's a road, you know.
Speaker 1: It was squatchy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we both woke up and we were like, that
Speaker 5: had to have been much. That thing was huge and
Speaker 5: running and you could hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, either what kind of jogger would be yelling? Frank
Speaker 2: Sinatra practice singing while swimming, And it was it was fast.
Speaker 1: It was as fast as you would you know, be
Speaker 1: either riding a bicycle and it wasn't a car you're
Speaker 1: writing it was.
Speaker 2: It was fast.
Speaker 1: However, you know, however, you could hear it getting louder
Speaker 1: and then you could it was clearly in front of
Speaker 1: the house and then beyond the house. Really, so that
Speaker 1: was years ago. That was years ago.
Speaker 4: That was that was.
Speaker 5: That was probably twelve years ago, at least maybe thirteen, yeah, fourteen, probably.
Speaker 4: They had some more reason happened.
Speaker 1: So something else recent happened. I was with a I
Speaker 1: worked for a water agency in northern California, and we
Speaker 1: were up checking out a meadow project that we had
Speaker 1: just done a restoration project away in the High Sierra.
Speaker 1: And there's about twelve of us out there paying attention
Speaker 1: to it, looking at what we did. And it was
Speaker 1: a big project. It was big meadow restoration. We had
Speaker 1: a bunch of heavy equipment out there the season few
Speaker 1: seasons before, and so we were out taking a look
Speaker 1: at the project and walking around, walking around the woods
Speaker 1: in and the meadow. And so we were out there
Speaker 1: with about a group of twelve of us walking around,
Speaker 1: and then we were checking out these little they weren't
Speaker 1: vernal pools, but they were springs that that the project
Speaker 1: had sort of re reinvigorated, and the whole thing was
Speaker 1: to reconnect the floodplain of the of the meadow to
Speaker 1: to be more natural. It was insized and cut and
Speaker 1: so we had we had rebuilt it for water retention
Speaker 1: and retention for our reservoir downstream, et cetera. So we
Speaker 1: were walking around checking it out, and we were standing
Speaker 1: around this little area looking at these little vernal kind
Speaker 1: of pool areas, and then out of nowhere there definitely
Speaker 1: was this knock, knock, knock, And then it stopped for
Speaker 1: a second. And I was standing apart from most people.
Speaker 1: They were kind of down a little bit, and and
Speaker 1: I listened really carefully, and nobody really seemed to hear it.
Speaker 1: Then it happened again, knock. Not the location same, Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of off to the left down stream a little bit,
Speaker 1: maybe one hundred yards, you know. But it was a
Speaker 1: it was a it was we were in a clearing
Speaker 1: and then it was a wooded zone about one hundred
Speaker 1: yards away, and it was in there. It was well forested.
Speaker 2: Three knocks, three, three knocks each twice.
Speaker 1: How many of you were there, it was about twelve
Speaker 1: of us, and at the time nobody said anything. Then
Speaker 1: we walked away. We were back behind the I was
Speaker 1: outside of the group a little bit. Everybody was kind
Speaker 1: of down in this little space, but I was, you know,
Speaker 1: not more than ten feet away from everybody. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a bucket. It was it was a three knock.
Speaker 1: It was definitely wood on wood and I definitely heard
Speaker 1: it and looked into the woods and stared into the
Speaker 1: woods and is And then about a minute or three later,
Speaker 1: we all sort of started walking away and left that
Speaker 1: zone and went back upstream and to the cars, which
Speaker 1: were about a mile and a half away, and I
Speaker 1: kept looking back. I kept looking back, just staring into
Speaker 1: the tree line to see if there was something, and
Speaker 1: didn't see anything and didn't hear anything after that, and
Speaker 1: we walked away and it wasn't an till maybe, I
Speaker 1: don't know. A week later, I was downloading with our
Speaker 1: two project managers for this project and I was asking about,
Speaker 1: you know, how was the trip, and Da Da DA,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about the project and then I
Speaker 1: asked them both, I said, you know, do you guys
Speaker 1: hear anything back in there? And the one guy that
Speaker 1: works for me said he did, and the other woman
Speaker 1: said she didn't, and he and I compared our notes
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, I heard that knock as well,
Speaker 1: and so and we pontificated as to what it could be.
Speaker 1: And we were both like, well, that was definitely a
Speaker 1: chackling the bigfoot, and the other gal was like, no way,
Speaker 1: I can't be. You know, you guys are just it
Speaker 1: was something else and we're like, okay, kind of know
Speaker 1: where you stand. And then and then but he and
Speaker 1: I were like, yeah, that's definitely what it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah that that was the last late summer twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: Five, okay, if we were beaver involved.
Speaker 1: So there was another beaver incit in this where we
Speaker 1: had included released some beavers into this area the spring before,
Speaker 1: and we were worried that some of the ponds weren't
Speaker 1: deep enough, but we regardless, the beavers were released and
Speaker 1: then they went back in the fall kind of after
Speaker 1: the same period of time, so they had been there
Speaker 1: now all summer long, and and it was about six
Speaker 1: months later before the winter hit twenty twenty five, and
Speaker 1: they tracked the beaver because the beaver tail had a
Speaker 1: tracking on it, and they tracked the tail up into
Speaker 1: the woods about three hundred yards two hundred yards outside
Speaker 1: of the outside of the meadow into the woods. And
Speaker 1: it was just the tail, nobody, nothing. And it was
Speaker 1: a clean, clean cut of the tail.
Speaker 5: It was a cut.
Speaker 1: It was it was either chomped or I mean, it
Speaker 1: was just the edge of the tail and there was
Speaker 1: no flesh nothing. Yeah, And I don't know how the beaver,
Speaker 1: you know, if that's a bony sec you know, if
Speaker 1: that's bone, or if it's just flesh on flesh that
Speaker 1: connects the tail to the butt. I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: that the beaver anatomy is, but it was.
Speaker 4: I don't think the bones too, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Or if it's just a fleshy connection.
Speaker 5: I think it is a fleshy connection. It's like the
Speaker 5: tail bone ends and the tails is a fleshy part
Speaker 5: that connects to a tailbone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They got a picture of the beaver just and I
Speaker 1: saw the you know, it was a pretty big beaver tail.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, this big. It was a good
Speaker 1: sized beaver, you know, And and it had the tag
Speaker 1: on the edge of it and it was sitting there.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I mean, it clearly the ponds.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're really deep and so could have
Speaker 1: been could have been a bobcat. I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of yeah, coyotes. I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: people go after there, a lot of things go after those.
Speaker 1: But it was definitely either drug taken transported a few
Speaker 1: hundred yards out into the woods away from the meadow
Speaker 1: because it was in the tree line now and there
Speaker 1: was I'm not sure what they ended up doing.
Speaker 2: And curious happening in the same area where. Yeah, how
Speaker 2: far away from the knocking place was this this?
Speaker 1: I don't know because I wasn't It's not far. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's within it's within the meadow itself is about
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty acres, and so it was within the
Speaker 1: same same right there. Yeah, within a mile. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a mile or two okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you could
Speaker 1: look down, you know, across and you're in the same zone.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, so a few hundred yards.
Speaker 1: Or right not along's not a long walk, yeah, or
Speaker 1: stride for any particular creature.
Speaker 5: I mean, could have been a poacher, I suppose.
Speaker 4: Because that's such a nutritious part of the animal, you know, Oh.
Speaker 5: The tail.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I never had That was the weird thing. It was
Speaker 1: just sitting there. I don't I can't remember if it
Speaker 1: was buried. I mean it was just sitting in the
Speaker 1: dirt and the you know, in the leaves. I just
Speaker 1: saw the picture afterwards, and I just saw it the
Speaker 1: one time. This was a Benson last fall. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: a you know, just one of those h that's a
Speaker 1: strange connection.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 4: What about you starting on the show and your name
Speaker 4: got out there and then they don't even comment on
Speaker 4: the TV thing we did that I was on recently,
Speaker 4: like the interview.
Speaker 5: I was watching that and just bringing me back to
Speaker 5: interviewing with you, and that was that was a really
Speaker 5: fun experience. But I was just so dorky. I think
Speaker 5: I was more starstruck by meeting you for the first
Speaker 5: time and just I just remember, like I had this
Speaker 5: little grin on my face and I'm talking about my
Speaker 5: Bigfoot encounter.
Speaker 4: Our fans are starstruck by you and our show.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, so I had an opportunity to go back
Speaker 5: to my site of where that creature came through my
Speaker 5: camp just recently, just a few weeks ago, and it
Speaker 5: was incredibly special. I never thought I would go back
Speaker 5: to that exact spot again, and I was invited with
Speaker 5: Less Stroud. He's working on maybe a documentary film, kind
Speaker 5: of a really what it seems to me is a
Speaker 5: well thought out film piece on the phenomenon of Sasquatch.
Speaker 5: I had met Less about a year before, similar to
Speaker 5: the time that Greg heard the Knox out in the Sierra,
Speaker 5: and I met Less in person, and he did an
Speaker 5: initial interview with me and great guy. I mean, he's survivorman,
Speaker 5: right and really really kind, really nice, and he had
Speaker 5: said within the near future he wanted to get me
Speaker 5: back out someday to my spot, and I sort of
Speaker 5: brushed it off, like yeah, right, like I'll ever be
Speaker 5: able to get out there again. And sure enough, the
Speaker 5: trip came together and at the first part of this
Speaker 5: summer we went out there, Less and I and a
Speaker 5: couple of his camera guys and we did a full
Speaker 5: wilderness expedition hike out to this spot and I was
Speaker 5: just so taken and moved by being in that area again.
Speaker 5: It was incredibly beautiful and wild and you know, not
Speaker 5: visited by humans, very little negative impact in there, just
Speaker 5: the forest and the forest structure itself. So I'm a
Speaker 5: professional chorister. I mean, I was just doorking out on
Speaker 5: the forest and the forest ecology, and there was a
Speaker 5: fire in there a couple of years ago, so I
Speaker 5: wasn't sure what to expect, and I was just so
Speaker 5: pleasantly surprised by the state of this landscape. It was
Speaker 5: basically perfect. It was exactly how I remembered it. Actually,
Speaker 5: we didn't approach my site from the same way that
Speaker 5: I had originally gone in, and so I wasn't even
Speaker 5: sure if we were going to make it. And sure enough,
Speaker 5: we hoofed it up there and got up towards the
Speaker 5: PCT and out to that marble outcropping and right above
Speaker 5: the cliff where that creature had climbed, and then came
Speaker 5: up through the knoll or sort of the smooth part
Speaker 5: of above the cliff where I was sleeping on, and
Speaker 5: it came right next to me, and I got to
Speaker 5: replay that whole memory. That part was exactly how I
Speaker 5: remembered it. And the watershed was as wide and deep
Speaker 5: and vast as I remembered it. It was actually more
Speaker 5: beautiful than I had remembered it. The colors and the
Speaker 5: wildflowers this year were just spectacular. The mountain fog was
Speaker 5: rolling in over the peaks, and then that was another
Speaker 5: part of the trip this time, was that I really
Speaker 5: got to reflect on the mountain and the shoulder of
Speaker 5: that peak that it eventually went up to the shoulder
Speaker 5: of and called until sunrise, because that I've been playing
Speaker 5: back in my head over the last twenty eight years
Speaker 5: of you know, where was that? Was it? How I
Speaker 5: remembered it? You know, I replayed the sound and the
Speaker 5: calling that it did in my head over and over again.
Speaker 5: And actually listening to the interview with Shane Corson and
Speaker 5: he talked about the long howl, I was just moved
Speaker 5: by that because I'm like, that's what it was. It
Speaker 5: was the long howl, and it was a long howl,
Speaker 5: and it was over the course of hours, and so
Speaker 5: I got to pinpoint when we were back there exactly
Speaker 5: where it went up the shoulder of this peak and
Speaker 5: made that call until almost the sun came up and
Speaker 5: I was right below it, and so the whole thing
Speaker 5: was just there's one word I wish I could take back,
Speaker 5: because we were filming, I didn't expect that we were
Speaker 5: actually going to be filming for Less's movie or show
Speaker 5: or whatever he intends to do with it. But sure enough,
Speaker 5: he had these camera guys and I was reliving the
Speaker 5: whole thing, and I was telling the story, and so
Speaker 5: he captured it all on the film, and you know,
Speaker 5: maybe he'll release that someday. But he asked me when
Speaker 5: we were up there, he said, you know, what's it
Speaker 5: like being back here? And I said it was it
Speaker 5: was very moving. It was it was emotional, it was spiritual,
Speaker 5: it was physical being there. But I said that it
Speaker 5: was validating, and if I could take that word back,
Speaker 5: I would say it was affirming, affirming, affirming. It was
Speaker 5: one hundred percent affirming of what I experienced when I
Speaker 5: was fairly twenty one years old.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, that's fantastic. And you know, our listeners know that
Speaker 2: I've been doing filming with Less, and I wasn't sure
Speaker 2: that I know Less reached out and wanted your contact information.
Speaker 2: That's where one of the reasons we're in contact. I
Speaker 2: didn't know he's going to go to the spot with you.
Speaker 2: What a fantastic comportunity for not only you personally, but
Speaker 2: for people like me or our listeners who have kind
Speaker 2: of lived vicariously through your encounter, that we're gonna be
Speaker 2: able to see that and see the magnificent terrain of
Speaker 2: the Marble Mountains. You know, nobody goes in there. Very
Speaker 2: few people do and get to the spot. Because that's
Speaker 2: we're not going to give away much about Less's documentary.
Speaker 2: We're not going to give away the spot or anything.
Speaker 2: But it's between a ten and twenty mile hike to
Speaker 2: get there, you know, it's a long ways in. Very
Speaker 2: few people get it's on this spot.
Speaker 5: It's on the twenty end of that spectrum. And actually
Speaker 5: I had tried to get to the spot three years
Speaker 5: ago with a friend of mine. She and I went
Speaker 5: out for the twenty fifth anniversary and we approached from
Speaker 5: the way that I originally approached way back when, and
Speaker 5: we didn't make it. There was no water. We were
Speaker 5: barely making you know, over ten miles, and we were
Speaker 5: just whooped and we were like we were just suffering together.
Speaker 5: And we did get to a vantage point up above
Speaker 5: from this one ridge. That was a really spectacular moment
Speaker 5: also where I randomly got off the trail and went
Speaker 5: up to this lookout and sure enough it looked out
Speaker 5: over the entire watershed where that individual had come up
Speaker 5: from the bottom, and I saw the cliff, and I
Speaker 5: saw the marble escarpment that I was sleeping on, and
Speaker 5: got to see that whole landscape where it had happened
Speaker 5: from afar. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's score, Sarah.
Speaker 2: A bottled water that is labeled bigfoot piece, I can't
Speaker 2: treat that.
Speaker 4: Not really a big.
Speaker 2: He's well hydrated. It's well hydrated, big got clear with.
Speaker 5: Stabilized oxygen clearing coy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what what a fantastic delicious I know that
Speaker 2: we're all looking forward to seeing the documentary, of course,
Speaker 2: and and you bing in it. It just makes it all
Speaker 2: the better because you are.
Speaker 5: Bear and makeup, pair and makeup, because.
Speaker 2: You have the by far, the most popular episode of
Speaker 2: our podcast.
Speaker 5: No way, that is impossible. Okay, So the Elk Hunter.
Speaker 2: Number one number, okay's my He's.
Speaker 5: My second, second to Kathy Strain. I still have yet
Speaker 5: to meet her. She's my hero. I can't wait, you know,
Speaker 5: I need to. I got to figure it out. Both Californians.
Speaker 2: And she's doun in like Santa swas national for US
Speaker 2: for the Forest Service.
Speaker 5: You can get old her and then yeah, I've gotten
Speaker 5: a hold of her, but I just busy mom and
Speaker 5: almost done moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So how what was the moon conditions, the lighting
Speaker 4: conditions at night when you were when you're up there,
Speaker 4: when we went back out there, what was the conditions like?
Speaker 4: Was it sooner the light the moonlight?
Speaker 5: It was not. It was dark and we had been
Speaker 5: up there. Yeah, and let's see, I think it was
Speaker 5: pretty slivery of a moon. In fact, it was a
Speaker 5: little let's see, it was wax on. It was waxing.
Speaker 5: It was waxing by less than a quarter Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 5: it was still a sliver and it was very dark,
Speaker 5: and it was following a heat wave that that whole
Speaker 5: and I think Oregon experienced this whole heat wave the
Speaker 5: week before, and so it was this cooling trend that
Speaker 5: had come in.
Speaker 3: So it was actually kind of cold.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, burr by the way summer come on. And yeah,
Speaker 5: so it was kind of it was cool. And so
Speaker 5: I'm out there with less shroud, survivor man, and I
Speaker 5: forgot my knife and a jacket like jacket jacket was
Speaker 5: a jacket. Yeah, No, I had a little wool a
Speaker 5: little wool piece that I love that's super warm.
Speaker 4: I couldn't even kill a deer and make a hide.
Speaker 5: I could have killed it. Yeah, I couldn't make it
Speaker 5: hi jacket and so but then the him and his
Speaker 5: camera crew, they were like, you're not going to bring
Speaker 5: a tent. I was like, well, I wasn't going to,
Speaker 5: and they're like, I think it might rain out there.
Speaker 5: Sure enough, it rained a little bit, but not much,
Speaker 5: so I had to carry my whole tent the poles
Speaker 5: like rainfly. And so then I figured, well, if it
Speaker 5: really comes down, I'll just put the rain fly over me.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Don't you have a bad hipper knee or something
Speaker 4: to you?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: No, I when I hiked twenty eight years ago, I
Speaker 5: went so far that I had blown out my knee, okay,
Speaker 5: and so towards the second half of that trip, I
Speaker 5: was limping. But I have pretty strong knees. I have
Speaker 5: pretty good hips and a back. But I blew out
Speaker 5: my shoulder three years ago. Right after actually I went
Speaker 5: back to this, tried to get out to my spot
Speaker 5: with my friend like two weeks after that, we went rafting,
Speaker 5: and I blew my entire wing connection and I broke
Speaker 5: it and I tore all ligaments I tore the nerve.
Speaker 5: I snapped my entire arm back all the way. So
Speaker 5: that was a three year ago injury.
Speaker 4: How was that ride in the hospital?
Speaker 1: It was, Well, it was a mile or it was
Speaker 1: an hour down river first and on the on the.
Speaker 5: Raft shot and I'm our salty old raft guide of
Speaker 5: the family, and I look up and I'm in the
Speaker 5: river and I look up at Greg and he says,
Speaker 5: are you okay? And I was like, I think you're
Speaker 5: gonna have to guide us out of here. And that's
Speaker 5: all I could think of, was like, you know, guiding
Speaker 5: the raft and I was down in the cold water,
Speaker 5: and I just wanted to sink down my left arm
Speaker 5: and shoulder down to the bottom of the river because
Speaker 5: it was ice. That was terrible. Yeah, but other than that, no,
Speaker 5: I'm pretty pretty strong.
Speaker 4: Here's a slave drove me up there, like sixteen mile high.
Speaker 5: Yeah. He didn't have any mules to carry my my stuff,
Speaker 5: or a ferrari or a limo ride or a helicopter
Speaker 5: come on, no, no helicopter ride. It was it was.
Speaker 5: It was a full epic hike and we walked all
Speaker 5: the way in there, and I was surprised that we
Speaker 5: made it all the way out there. I didn't. I
Speaker 5: really didn't foresee that happening, and it was awesome.
Speaker 4: Didn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I even told I'm like, I don't think we're
Speaker 5: going to make it out to my spot, but we're
Speaker 5: going to go out there and see what happens. And
Speaker 5: so it was pretty awesome.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 5: I took tons of photos.
Speaker 4: And a couple of those from you so we could
Speaker 4: put them on the package. Yeah, because I know people
Speaker 4: be excited to see that, because I mean, I've never
Speaker 4: seen exactly where it was, and it's different. You should be.
Speaker 4: The pictures like not what I expected, but similar but
Speaker 4: not what I expected exactly, and it was really nice
Speaker 4: to see. I love seeing the photos when we're something
Speaker 4: that took. When you're the story, you want to know
Speaker 4: what it looks like.
Speaker 5: It's changed. The landscape has even more brushy now, No,
Speaker 5: it was less brushy. The trees down in the tree
Speaker 5: pockets were they were beautiful and big and green. But
Speaker 5: down below there was really cool fire behavior and some
Speaker 5: like moderate fires that had moved through there. And that's
Speaker 5: part of My industry is forestry, but the fire ecology
Speaker 5: part of it. So want moderate fire, yeah, and you
Speaker 5: want moderate fire. And so there was like the most
Speaker 5: perfect fire that was down at the bottom. So I
Speaker 5: got to geek out on that on our way up.
Speaker 5: And then when we got up there, I noticed that
Speaker 5: in the rockier, drier parts a lot of the trees
Speaker 5: had had died. There was quite a bit of tree mortality.
Speaker 5: And it is drier, you know, it's it's the whole
Speaker 5: change in weather in whatever way you want to perceive that.
Speaker 5: There's there's different patterns. And what I've noticed is, you know,
Speaker 5: it's it's wetter and more intense. But then the dryer
Speaker 5: spells are drier and more intense in that way, and
Speaker 5: that has a big impact on tree growth because you
Speaker 5: can't irrigate forests and so when when the forest landscapes
Speaker 5: dry out in those cycles, they really have an impact.
Speaker 5: So but it was just phenomenal.
Speaker 4: Two days.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we camped for two nights.
Speaker 4: Did pheromones or anything or to do anything, attract.
Speaker 5: Anything or well I did. I left a secret fruit
Speaker 5: bait at the vehicle and I really wanted something to
Speaker 5: come and take the I had a half eaten nectarine,
Speaker 5: and I forget why I didn't want to fish finish
Speaker 5: the nectary. I was like full or something, and then
Speaker 5: I had another nectarine. I was like, I can't hike
Speaker 5: a nectarine out with lesh trout, and so anyways, I
Speaker 5: left him right next to the vehicle, but then they
Speaker 5: were there when I got back.
Speaker 4: Do you have any pheromones or anything with them? Or
Speaker 4: do you cook bacon all night?
Speaker 5: Or no?
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: Less was like, we're hiking light and he's like, I
Speaker 5: might bring like a sandwich out there, and like a
Speaker 5: couple bars. I'm like, okay, So I packed a sandwich
Speaker 5: and by that night of the huge hike, none of
Speaker 5: the guys had any food. So I shared my soggy
Speaker 5: sandwich with them and we were all like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: this is the best sandwich ever. I'm like, I thought
Speaker 5: you guys were hiking a sandwich out like what the heck?
Speaker 5: So we didn't have much. The songbirds were amazing. I
Speaker 5: recorded so many birds on my Merlin app.
Speaker 4: But yep, did you ever get into contact of that
Speaker 4: native guy? You just got to listen to the meeting calls?
Speaker 2: He said, no.
Speaker 5: That was so that was shortly after that was within
Speaker 5: the week right after my experience, and so what happened
Speaker 5: there was right after I got done with my solo hike,
Speaker 5: my backpacking trip, I went to go meet a group
Speaker 5: of girlfriends to go climb Mount Shasta, and the day
Speaker 5: before the with my blown out kneet. So, needless to say,
Speaker 5: I started that hike with my friends and I did
Speaker 5: not make it and they had to leave me on
Speaker 5: Mount Shasta. Well in between meeting them, because I didn't
Speaker 5: have a car, so I was hitch hiking and I
Speaker 5: took a bus. I hitchhiked to the main campground at
Speaker 5: Mount Shasta, which was Bunny Flat. This is a crazy story.
Speaker 5: So I'm you know, I'm young, but I'm not like
Speaker 5: real in the WU crowd and you know, the big
Speaker 5: and you know, I love all the hippie music and
Speaker 5: all that kind of stuff. But this these guys were
Speaker 5: legit hippies, and so they said, hey, you want to
Speaker 5: come with us too. I said, well, I'm trying to
Speaker 5: get to Bunny Flat and they said, oh, well, we're
Speaker 5: having a full moon healing circle at Bunny Flat. And
Speaker 5: I'm like, what's a full moon healing circle? Well, sure enough,
Speaker 5: when we got there, I like set up my little
Speaker 5: camp over in my corner, and they had close to
Speaker 5: one hundred people come from all over the world and
Speaker 5: they circled up and held hands and like prayed for healing.
Speaker 5: So I'm walking around and then it turned into a
Speaker 5: drum circle and a party, and so I'm walking around this.
Speaker 5: So I'm walking around this party and it's getting dark
Speaker 5: and the full moon's coming up, and it was on
Speaker 5: the other side of Mount Shasta, and I remember these
Speaker 5: guys were saying, they were like, well, where's the moon,
Speaker 5: Like when's the moon gonna come up? And I was like, hey,
Speaker 5: I know where we can see the moon. And we
Speaker 5: went walked up to this little ridge and sure enough,
Speaker 5: you could see the moon rise and it was one
Speaker 5: of those moon rises where it was just the entire horizon.
Speaker 5: It was a huge moon and it was just on
Speaker 5: the other side of the little ridge. So we're walking
Speaker 5: back and this lady sees me limping and she said
Speaker 5: to me, she was like, hey, you look like you're limping, Like,
Speaker 5: do you want me to I do reiki? Do you
Speaker 5: want me to rub your knee and do reiki on
Speaker 5: your knee? And I was like, sure, that sounds great.
Speaker 5: So she's rubbing my knee and I'm just sitting there thinking,
Speaker 5: all this feels really good, and she says, there's like
Speaker 5: something about you. She's like, you know, how'd you hurt
Speaker 5: your knee? What's going on with you? That's kind of
Speaker 5: what I remember her saying. She's just like, something's going
Speaker 5: on with you. And I just looked at her and
Speaker 5: I was like, this really weird thing happened to me
Speaker 5: out there. I was on this hiking trip. I remember
Speaker 5: exactly what I said, but I'm like, I was out
Speaker 5: on this hiking trip and this thing came through my
Speaker 5: camp one night and it went up past me. It
Speaker 5: was huge, and it went up past me and it hauled.
Speaker 5: And I don't think I explained her like it was
Speaker 5: a grilla, it was an ape like creature. I just
Speaker 5: said it was humongous and strong, and it was howling,
Speaker 5: and it passed right by me and went up behind
Speaker 5: me and made this call all through the night until sunrise.
Speaker 5: And she plainly, matter of fact, we stopped rubbing my
Speaker 5: knee and looked at me and she said, I'm Kadouk Indian,
Speaker 5: and my father has been recording the Sasquatches up at
Speaker 5: the tops of peaks in full moons for many years.
Speaker 5: And he goes out to Medicine Lake and you know,
Speaker 5: Little Shasta and in the Mount Shasta area, and he's
Speaker 5: been to that area and the marbles and he records
Speaker 5: those and I think what you heard was a sasquatch
Speaker 5: doing a mating call.
Speaker 4: I tried to find that guy. I could never find him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wouldn't have a clue, right, And this was
Speaker 5: back before the you know, it was like at probably
Speaker 5: at the start of the Internet, like maybe I had email,
Speaker 5: but there I certainly wasn't googling. Could a medicine man
Speaker 5: recording sasquatch mating calls? Like there's a Google search. The
Speaker 5: other thing that this ties into is so less. And
Speaker 5: I had a really nice connection, like just I think scientifically,
Speaker 5: like he and I really had some good chats and
Speaker 5: he was asking a lot of really great, thoughtful questions.
Speaker 5: And I found him to be really intelligent and well
Speaker 5: versed and researched, and I thought it was a really
Speaker 5: smart guy. So he was I forget what, no, I
Speaker 5: asked him. Oh that's the other thing about him, is
Speaker 5: he he was not chatty kathy like me. And there
Speaker 5: were a couple points where I could tell he was
Speaker 5: like getting a little bit irritated with me. He was like,
Speaker 5: was this lady ever gonna shut up?
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that, so anyways, so so.
Speaker 5: So then I asked him at one point, I was like, so, Les,
Speaker 5: I'm like, where are you on the point of you know,
Speaker 5: how many? How many of these critters do you think
Speaker 5: are out there in the world, I said, because I
Speaker 5: am of the thought that there really aren't very many,
Speaker 5: and that potentially there's there they would could be considered endangered.
Speaker 5: And I think that they're on the decline in their population,
Speaker 5: at least certainly of what they would have been let's say,
Speaker 5: one hundred years ago, one hundred and fifty years ago.
Speaker 5: And he and I got into this whole sort of
Speaker 5: thought train, and he was like, why do you think that?
Speaker 5: And he said, I'm of more of the thought of
Speaker 5: he said, ask Cliff about this. He said, because I
Speaker 5: think that actually their population is probably fairly steady and
Speaker 5: maybe grown, and actually they have figured out where to
Speaker 5: live away from our human impact. And so then later
Speaker 5: that night we were sitting out where we had camped.
Speaker 5: There's this rock outcropping and it is marble, and there's
Speaker 5: marble pieces in there. It's really cool. And you can
Speaker 5: see the whole watershed below of where where that thing
Speaker 5: had come from the night that I was there, you know,
Speaker 5: prior twenty eight years ago. And so I was sitting
Speaker 5: there and I was just introspective of that question that
Speaker 5: I had asked less earlier, and I was like, huh,
Speaker 5: And I was just thinking, and I was looking down
Speaker 5: the watershed and I was looking up to the peak
Speaker 5: where the thing had made the call, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 5: so there's either I could see like fifteen to twenty
Speaker 5: individuals in this water shed or zero. And I was like, well,
Speaker 5: maybe less in cliff are right, and maybe there's twenty
Speaker 5: to thirty individuals in this watershed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably too many.
Speaker 3: That's too many.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I kind of like one hundred and
Speaker 2: one bear. The big foot thing is easy to ass
Speaker 2: you know, but Meldrum always had as one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty to two hundred. I think that's little on the
Speaker 2: on the sparse side.
Speaker 5: One hundred one hundred bear per.
Speaker 2: Bigfoot air pick. Yeah, And it's like for Oregon there's
Speaker 2: about thirty five thousand thirty to thirty five thousand black
Speaker 2: bear right now, Okay, about three hundred hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: big foot sounds about right kind of to me, Okay,
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't I wouldn't be too surprised if there's
Speaker 2: five hundred or right, maybe a little maybe that feels
Speaker 2: a little high to speak, but maybe that might be.
Speaker 2: We don't really know enough, And unfortunately, the Bigfoot community
Speaker 2: doesn't seem interested in collecting the kind of data that
Speaker 2: would tell us. And I fought the Bigfoot community with
Speaker 2: it because they're mostly interested in spooky sighting reports that
Speaker 2: scared them. But that's a human thing, because we've been
Speaker 2: telling stories around the campfire for three hundred thousand years
Speaker 2: or more, right, So they're interested in the like make
Speaker 2: me scared stuff. They're not interested in footprints and and
Speaker 2: saying what which individuals are identifiable in the footprint data set,
Speaker 2: which is what I'm interested in doing, you know. But
Speaker 2: I think three hundred to maybe six hundred for organs
Speaker 2: seems kind of reasonable because they don't inhabit the land.
Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, they don't inhabit the
Speaker 2: land uniformly. You know, it's not a thin blanket.
Speaker 4: Of these things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're cohorts.
Speaker 2: Is that what this?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, when you get a pocket or a grouping that's
Speaker 5: considered a cohort. A cohort though in the science term,
Speaker 5: it takes into account mating individuals, so interaction on a
Speaker 5: reproductive scale, So a cohort is not there's families, So
Speaker 5: let's take two families they come together. Now they're a cohort.
Speaker 2: Well, I see, yeah, I wouldn't be. That sounds like
Speaker 2: a reasonable model for them. Because the research area that
Speaker 2: I have been studying, I'm finding mostly a small individual
Speaker 2: like a twelve inch foot. Until last year, year before,
Speaker 2: I would usually about thirty and usually bigfoot is a
Speaker 2: different number, but usually about thirty to fifty percent of
Speaker 2: the time find a fourteen inch nearby. Sometimes at the
Speaker 2: same place, but within a couple of hundred yards, I
Speaker 2: find a fourteen inch track, and then every once in
Speaker 2: a while like a larger one fifteen and a half
Speaker 2: or so. Although this past year I found a seventeen
Speaker 2: in my area that I've never seen before, but I
Speaker 2: have found a seventeen in an adjacent area about eight
Speaker 2: miles away away might be the same one, but there
Speaker 2: wasn't enough detail in the track to tell so, but
Speaker 2: again I don't know. I mean, if that could be,
Speaker 2: it's a kind of a different watershed. This watershed could
Speaker 2: have a different seventeen than this one, right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? But I just don't know that. Well,
Speaker 2: we need a clear tracks. But again there's not enough
Speaker 2: data and unfortunately the bigfooters don't seem to be interested
Speaker 2: in quite so we have to kind of wait until
Speaker 2: the professionals getting all and to start both of these
Speaker 2: things more. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with
Speaker 2: Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 5: And honestly, being on the podcast with you guys reinvigorated
Speaker 5: my interest in it. For so long I had gone,
Speaker 5: I mean that was okay, So that was twenty twenty
Speaker 5: and my incident happened in nineteen ninety eight, and for
Speaker 5: all of those years, I mean, Greg was one of
Speaker 5: my early believers, like right off the bat, and I
Speaker 5: was like, oh, I'm going to marry this guy.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 1: Well, early on I saw in the down there and
Speaker 1: I just sent a picture to my brother. We were
Speaker 1: watching the Legend of Boggy Creek. I was like eight
Speaker 1: years old. I was rad and I was like like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you got it in here picture.
Speaker 2: I've got the autograph of the guy in the suit.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's awesome. Yeah yeah. So early on when
Speaker 1: she told me the story, I'm like, yeah, he's a keeper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's totally Even.
Speaker 5: His brother doesn't believe me.
Speaker 2: He does, he does.
Speaker 5: I didn't think.
Speaker 2: That's one in the.
Speaker 4: Podcast bringing some fubbles together and apart.
Speaker 5: But I know, yeah, so so for so many years,
Speaker 5: I you know, so my dad I told pretty soon
Speaker 5: after I remembered that recently, I didn't really tell anyone
Speaker 5: the one lady the week of when it happened. After that,
Speaker 5: I didn't tell very many people, if anyone, for a while,
Speaker 5: and then like slowly over the years, I would kind
Speaker 5: of start to dabble in telling my experience with friends,
Speaker 5: and everyone was just ridicule and say, oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: like you are crazy that that even happened, that you're
Speaker 5: even saying that, Like don't you think it was a bear,
Speaker 5: or don't you think that you were dreaming or whatever?
Speaker 5: And you know, people just very rarely believed me, and.
Speaker 2: Children always make fun of things they don't understand.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So then when you well first of all, Bob,
Speaker 5: but when you called me that very first time, I
Speaker 5: was just freaking out. I'm like, I called Greg. I'm like,
Speaker 5: you'll never believe I just called me. He goes, We'll
Speaker 5: get off the phone call him back. And so that
Speaker 5: was before the podcast interview, and since the interview and
Speaker 5: Your Guys' podcast has totally reinvigorated my own interest in
Speaker 5: what it was that I saw and what came through
Speaker 5: that night, and and I've really been digging in and
Speaker 5: then and then it was sort of reinstated after I
Speaker 5: went back, tried to get back out there with my
Speaker 5: friend a few years ago, and then this connection with
Speaker 5: Les Stroud and now now I'm ready.
Speaker 4: So after you were on the pologe you ever have
Speaker 4: anything coach you like that of conference or work or anything.
Speaker 4: I've ever bring it up Bigfoot.
Speaker 5: Like I, Well, I have one friend. He's a young guy.
Speaker 5: He lives here in Oregon, and he was already listening
Speaker 5: to the podcast by then, and so then he and
Speaker 5: I connected. He was like, was that you? And then
Speaker 5: it got around the office and here I am working
Speaker 5: for one of the biggest forestry firms in Oregon and
Speaker 5: California in the nation. And yeah, so word quickly got
Speaker 5: out professionally, but you know, it was fine because it's
Speaker 5: like people can be skept and I know what I
Speaker 5: saw that night, and I know what I experienced more
Speaker 5: than anything. I know that it was over the course
Speaker 5: of hours. I know the intensity, I know the noise
Speaker 5: that it made. And so then you know, hearing going
Speaker 5: back to Shane Corson and how he categorizes the vocalizations
Speaker 5: was just so riveting to me because because that's what
Speaker 5: I heard, was the long howl and the grunt and
Speaker 5: the you know when it when it stuttered and moved
Speaker 5: and noticed me. All of that I've been able to
Speaker 5: reflect on and then going back there this past couple
Speaker 5: of weeks was so affirming and wonderful and it was
Speaker 5: exactly what happened and what I remembered.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: We also shared the podcast with a lot of friends
Speaker 1: that you know, tried to explain it to and told
Speaker 1: it to in summer y and wouldn't listen. You know,
Speaker 1: it's great. I mean, yeah, we've told everything and everybody
Speaker 1: who's listened to it is just like, wow, it was
Speaker 1: a great story and there's an appreciation I think for
Speaker 1: Sarah that's different exactly they really understood before. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you saw something whatever.
Speaker 4: She can you figure there when she tells it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you do. It's really good.
Speaker 2: Why she's number one, number one?
Speaker 4: You show that's wrong that Pete did for you or
Speaker 4: filled you Yeah, Sarah crowd when when we started finishing it.
Speaker 5: Right, it is about right. The only thing about that
Speaker 5: sketch that I am like, what is the abs? The
Speaker 5: full six pack? Yeah, I'm like, I don't know if
Speaker 5: I noticed a six pack, but what I fully remembered
Speaker 5: is the silhouette right here and the rump, muscles, the quads,
Speaker 5: the calf, the foot, the long arm, the shoulder right
Speaker 5: here in this whole shoulder connection, and definitely the long
Speaker 5: arms because when it came up running over that the
Speaker 5: crest of the cliff, and it was coming up where
Speaker 5: it sloped out is right when it passed right where
Speaker 5: I was, which I didn't really get to show you
Speaker 5: a good picture of that on the slash with Less
Speaker 5: is yeah, Less went down and then walked up right
Speaker 5: where I think it.
Speaker 4: Was and it was confirmed estimate it No, it was.
Speaker 5: I don't feel like it was huge, Like I don't
Speaker 5: think it was much more than six and a half
Speaker 5: seven feet. But so that's my point is right when
Speaker 5: it passed me and it did that whole thing where
Speaker 5: it's paused and sort of stuttered and went like this,
Speaker 5: and I just remember this motion with the arm where
Speaker 5: it took off and it used its arms. It went
Speaker 5: and pulled itself to yes, all fours as it was
Speaker 5: coming up and over as it was.
Speaker 7: Yeah, like it was running and I remember it, and
Speaker 7: now it could have appeared, you know, six and a
Speaker 7: half seven feet tall, because it was like crouching and
Speaker 7: running and then it stopped and that's when it did
Speaker 7: this thing where it went.
Speaker 5: And I just remember this. I remember this motion of like, yeah,
Speaker 5: this whole swinging this what would you call this, this
Speaker 5: pendulation of the shoulder it and that arm dropped and
Speaker 5: it pulled itself with its hands to project its self
Speaker 5: and its body and just hall ass. And I think, honestly,
Speaker 5: I think it was startled and somewhat scared of me
Speaker 5: in that moment. I don't know about scared, but like
Speaker 5: startled surprise. And that's when it really took off. And
Speaker 5: I remember that whole left side silhouette like clear as
Speaker 5: it's burned in my Brain.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: And now enjoy the original interview with Sarah, released May
Speaker 3: fifth of twenty twenty, episode fifty five, A Terrifying Night
Speaker 3: in the Marble Mountains.
Speaker 2: Hi, Bobo, how you doing, man?
Speaker 4: Good man?
Speaker 6: I got us a special guest today.
Speaker 2: You've been talking about this guest for a little while
Speaker 2: and you haven't told me who it is or anything
Speaker 2: like that, so I'm kind of excited to learn a
Speaker 2: little bit about it.
Speaker 8: Well, you don't recognize the report, I'm sure Sarah. She
Speaker 8: as a female backpacker back in the late nineties. You
Speaker 8: had a incredible encounter up in the Marble Mountains.
Speaker 6: I'll let her tell the story, but you will recognize that,
Speaker 6: I promise.
Speaker 2: Fantastic, fantastical. Let's bring her on.
Speaker 6: Sarah, Welcome on board. This is Cliff. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, I don't want to confuse you, Sarah. That was
Speaker 2: actually Bobo who said that. But I understand I get
Speaker 2: us mixed up sometimes too. But yeah, I'm Cliff. It's
Speaker 2: nice to meet you, Sarah.
Speaker 9: Nice to meet you too.
Speaker 5: Cliff and Bobo's voice is unmistakable, So thank you both
Speaker 5: for having me.
Speaker 2: His voice is like the grumbling of a volcano before
Speaker 2: it belches.
Speaker 6: So yeah, Sarah's report.
Speaker 8: They tried to get a hold of her for finding Bigfoot,
Speaker 8: but I couldn't track her down. I thought, there's a
Speaker 8: fun over here. It's like twenty three years old. I'll
Speaker 8: try it anyways, and I try it. She still had
Speaker 8: the same number.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, And she's not just your.
Speaker 8: Average witness, She's got full accreditations. Can you tell us
Speaker 8: a little about your your background, Sara, I, then you're
Speaker 8: going to your story.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, A little bit about my background is I grew
Speaker 5: up in California in the Bay Area, and my dad
Speaker 5: and I were avid outdoors people, and he taught me
Speaker 5: how to fish and hike and a little.
Speaker 9: Bit of backpacking.
Speaker 5: And then when I went to college in the nineties
Speaker 5: up at Chico State, I really became an avid backpacker.
Speaker 9: So I sort of followed this path that maybe.
Speaker 5: My career would be in the natural resources and outdoor sciences.
Speaker 5: And I had worked in the summer of ninety six
Speaker 5: for the Klamath National Forest, and so I learned.
Speaker 9: A lot about that area. And so the following summer.
Speaker 5: I was going to summer school, and I wanted to
Speaker 5: plan out a big one hundred mile solo hike, and
Speaker 5: so I did that. And not to get too far
Speaker 5: into the story, I did eventually obtain a science degree
Speaker 5: and actually my forester's license here in California. So I'm
Speaker 5: a registered professional forester. I live in northern California.
Speaker 2: And that is that the way you make your living today?
Speaker 5: Still, Yeah, I'm a I'm an active licensed forester. I
Speaker 5: do a lot of wildfire safety planning.
Speaker 4: I see.
Speaker 2: Okay, very good. So and so you had an encounter
Speaker 2: at one point with a sasquatch. What what's the context
Speaker 2: of that? Like, what were you doing at the time?
Speaker 2: And it was that on that one hundred mile trek
Speaker 2: that you just mentioned.
Speaker 9: That's correct.
Speaker 5: It was the second night in Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 6: So Sarah, where you can't what was the physical location?
Speaker 5: So I was the second night in on ae hundred
Speaker 5: mile backpacking trip, and I had hiked a fair amount
Speaker 5: the first day and then I noticed on my map
Speaker 5: that there was this lake that I wanted to try
Speaker 5: and get to.
Speaker 9: So I made it to the lake.
Speaker 5: Within the late afternoon evening the second day, and then
Speaker 5: just beyond the lake. Although the lake was beautiful, it
Speaker 5: was a little bit smaller than I had imagined.
Speaker 9: And just beyond the.
Speaker 5: Lake I could kind of catch a glimpse of what
Speaker 5: looked like a big rock out cropping, and so I
Speaker 5: continued onto that, and when I got there, it was
Speaker 5: like this football field of a flat escarpment, this big rock,
Speaker 5: solid rock field, which, now, knowing what I know about
Speaker 5: the area, I believe was a large marble escarpment. And
Speaker 5: so I wanted a camp there that night.
Speaker 2: So you set up camp on this outcropping, I guess,
Speaker 2: And did the encounter happened during the day at night? Like,
Speaker 2: how did the whole thing begin?
Speaker 9: So I didn't bring a tent on the trip.
Speaker 5: It was hot and it was forecasted to be very
Speaker 5: hot for the whole time. In fact, along the trip
Speaker 5: I had left articles of clothing like a rain jacket
Speaker 5: and a few things where I was like, I'm not
Speaker 5: going to need these things, and you know, lighten my
Speaker 5: load if I'm actually going to make it through this trip.
Speaker 9: So I didn't have a tent, and so when I got.
Speaker 5: To the the site that I wanted to camp at,
Speaker 5: I set up my bag, my sleeping bag, and you know,
Speaker 5: my backpack and kind of unpacked.
Speaker 9: A little bit right there. And I knew that I
Speaker 9: was going.
Speaker 5: To encounter a bear or two, or however many, and
Speaker 5: I was pretty concerned about bears on the trip, and
Speaker 5: so I packed up all my food stuff and my
Speaker 5: stove and hiked way over to the far side of the.
Speaker 9: Escarpment and cooked my dinner.
Speaker 5: I was pretty crashed out and wanted to go to bed,
Speaker 5: and it was kind of early, it was maybe just dusk,
Speaker 5: so late August, and I was starting to get dark,
Speaker 5: and I'm laying there in my bed and I fell
Speaker 5: asleep and I was I was sleeping hard, and I
Speaker 5: woke up in the middle of the night to a sound.
Speaker 5: It was really far away and very faint, and I
Speaker 5: could hear it, and at first I thought it's probably
Speaker 5: an owl. It kept going and I was kind of
Speaker 5: trying to go back to sleep, and the way that
Speaker 5: I was situated on the escarpment with my sleeping bag,
Speaker 5: I was basically feet facing down this canyon or ravine,
Speaker 5: and it was a big canyon. So I keep hearing
Speaker 5: the noise and now reminding you, this was twenty three
Speaker 5: years ago, and so I'm remembering this right now as
Speaker 5: I tell you guys what happened. So what I was
Speaker 5: hearing was repetitive and it just didn't stop. It was
Speaker 5: still faint and very far away, but it was repetitive.
Speaker 5: So then I thought, after I thought maybe it was
Speaker 5: an owl and I was just going to go back
Speaker 5: to sleep. Then I thought, well, maybe it's a bugling elk.
Speaker 5: And so I was laying there and sure enough it
Speaker 5: continued without pause, and it was over and over and
Speaker 5: over again of what I originally called this inward howl.
Speaker 5: And it was one after the next, and I will
Speaker 5: tell you that it started to grow just slightly louder.
Speaker 5: And so then I started thinking to myself, Okay, probably
Speaker 5: not an owl, maybe not a bugling elk. I did
Speaker 5: think maybe this was a mountain lion. And then eventually
Speaker 5: I ended up having some scary thoughts that maybe it
Speaker 5: was a man or a person really a man that
Speaker 5: was crazy or or drunk way down in the bottom
Speaker 5: of a wilderness canyon. And I have to be honest,
Speaker 5: that thought immediately went away because of the unlikelihood of that,
Speaker 5: and all along it kept going. And so now I'm
Speaker 5: in my mind going, what in the world is that,
Speaker 5: And it's getting louder, and it keeps going, and it's
Speaker 5: clearly running and howling up the creek down at the
Speaker 5: bottom of this canyon that I'm sleeping up above. And
Speaker 5: so I thought, okay, whatever, it is, no problem. I'm
Speaker 5: way up here at the top of this canyon and
Speaker 5: really at the base of a peak, so.
Speaker 9: There's nothing that can get up here.
Speaker 5: And earlier in the night, when it was still light,
Speaker 5: I had definitely looked over the canyon a bunch, and
Speaker 5: so I knew that I was right over like a
Speaker 5: short cliff base with a big screen field down below
Speaker 5: and then the ravine, and it was huge. I mean,
Speaker 5: the relief in those canyons can easily be two thousand feet.
Speaker 5: So as it started to get louder and louder and
Speaker 5: clearly running and calling or doing whatever it was doing,
Speaker 5: crying or for ever you want to call it, all
Speaker 5: the way up and repetitively, I started thinking, this thing
Speaker 5: is running up the canyon and is running to.
Speaker 9: The boulder field the screen pile down below.
Speaker 5: So then I kind of thought, well, that'll surely stop.
Speaker 9: It in its tracks.
Speaker 5: And so the time period is a little bit foggy
Speaker 5: in my recollection. In all honesty, I think that it
Speaker 5: was probably about forty five minutes of hearing it down
Speaker 5: in the creek bottom in the ravine until it got
Speaker 5: to what was the boulder field down below, and when
Speaker 5: it got to the boulder field again continuously howling or
Speaker 5: inward howling. At that point I could start to hear it.
Speaker 5: I could start to hear clearly that there was something
Speaker 5: running and frankly hauling ass and it was going fast
Speaker 5: through this boulder field, carrying you know, running and sort
Speaker 5: of carrying its body. And I could just start to
Speaker 5: make out rocks moving, but just faintly. Obviously at this
Speaker 5: point it was much louder. It was right below me
Speaker 5: by two hundred feet. It started, you know, kind of
Speaker 5: propelling itself up what was the boulder field. I'm scared,
Speaker 5: you guys. I was so scared. I didn't know anything.
Speaker 5: I didn't know what it was. I didn't know if
Speaker 5: it was coming for me. I just was laying there
Speaker 5: as scared as you can imagine, completely breathless, completely motionless,
Speaker 5: and thinking, Okay, it's going to get to the bottom
Speaker 5: of the cliff, and there's no way any bugling elk or
Speaker 5: crazy person or whatever could climb up that cliff, and I,
Speaker 5: being an outdoors person in adventure, I was familiar with
Speaker 5: rock climbing a little bit. At that point. I went
Speaker 5: on to do some more rock climbing, but I knew
Speaker 5: that no one could climb that without ropes. It was
Speaker 5: easily a five to nine maybe a five eight pitch.
Speaker 5: It would have been a crumbly, very steep cliff face,
Speaker 5: and it was at least fifty feet tall, if not,
Speaker 5: I don't know, seventy feet seventy five feet. Sure enough,
Speaker 5: the thing started and you could hear it pulling itself
Speaker 5: and climbing up the cliff. And it was really interesting
Speaker 5: because when it got to the bottom and started the
Speaker 5: climbing was the first that it had taken a real
Speaker 5: break from the howling or the whooping, and so it
Speaker 5: sort of caught its breath, and it had some that
Speaker 5: I could hear, some grunts and some slight pitches, but
Speaker 5: not the repetitious whoops that.
Speaker 9: Later in the call. I can describe to you guys
Speaker 9: what I heard.
Speaker 5: But anyways, things started climbing up the cliff, and I'm
Speaker 5: at the very top of it, and I'm just off
Speaker 5: to the side of what was a little creek that
Speaker 5: sort of defined the escarpment and the cliff and then down.
Speaker 9: Into the ravine. It was just off to.
Speaker 5: Sort of the river right side of that little creek
Speaker 5: or brook that was really more of ice melt from
Speaker 5: the peak above. By about I don't know if I
Speaker 5: was fifteen feet or thirty feet, but I was right
Speaker 5: in there, fifteen to thirty feet off the side of
Speaker 5: that little creek that wouldn't have been more than a
Speaker 5: foot or two wide.
Speaker 9: So I just kept laying in.
Speaker 5: My bag and essentially praying that I wasn't coming to
Speaker 5: get gobbled up. It continued to climb successfully and pretty quickly,
Speaker 5: and when it got to the top of the cliff,
Speaker 5: it was so amazing. The thing just pulled itself up
Speaker 5: and over. It just used whatever arms it had and
Speaker 5: hoisted itself up and almost like it jumped up and
Speaker 5: over the top.
Speaker 2: So at that moment you put your eyes on it,
Speaker 2: you could actually see the thing that you've been listening
Speaker 2: to for the last forty five minutes at that point,
Speaker 2: that's correct.
Speaker 9: And there was moonlight.
Speaker 5: I didn't want to move my eyes, I didn't want
Speaker 5: to move anything. I didn't want to breathe, I didn't
Speaker 5: want to move my eyes or my head, but instinct
Speaker 5: I had to.
Speaker 9: I had to see.
Speaker 5: What was you coming for me or whatever? And it
Speaker 5: wasn't coming for me, I'll tell you that now. But nevertheless,
Speaker 5: my eyes just went slowly and steadily to the left
Speaker 5: and right. Then it started up as if it was
Speaker 5: going to start running again, and took a big breath
Speaker 5: and sort of hesitated and stopped just for a split
Speaker 5: second and looked looked at me, and I looked at it,
Speaker 5: and the only thing that I can describe of what
Speaker 5: I saw was similar to a gorilla.
Speaker 9: I think I scared the crap out of it. Honestly.
Speaker 5: I think that it was at that moment just as
Speaker 5: scared as I was, and realized it wasn't alone thinking
Speaker 5: that it was, and I still didn't move and was
Speaker 5: extremely frightened, if not on the verge of a heart attack.
Speaker 6: That's how I am right now.
Speaker 5: And at that point, so it looks to the left over,
Speaker 5: you know, so we're facing opposite directions, so we both
Speaker 5: just barely look to our left, and as soon as
Speaker 5: it notices that there's someone or something else right there,
Speaker 5: it just stands up.
Speaker 9: And howls and takes off so fast.
Speaker 5: Anyways, it took off and was at the base of
Speaker 5: that peak in probably ten minutes, maybe fifteen minutes, and
Speaker 5: then it continued to climb up that peak, doing the howl,
Speaker 5: the travel howl for another only like twenty or thirty minutes.
Speaker 5: And I'm still laying in my bag, just as scared
Speaker 5: as can be. And it stayed up there for hours
Speaker 5: and hours until almost sunrise, and it called the whole
Speaker 5: time as loud as you can imagine, consistently, one after
Speaker 5: the other, and just stayed there, calling out.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bogo will be right back. After these messages, you said
Speaker 2: that when it saw you, what it noticed you up there,
Speaker 2: it let out a how, and then a moment later
Speaker 2: you referred to a traveling howl. So that vocalization that
Speaker 2: it emitted when it saw you was different than the
Speaker 2: other ones.
Speaker 9: It was like a it was more of a grunt.
Speaker 5: It was more of like the grunt that I was
Speaker 5: hearing when it was climbing, and it was like a
Speaker 5: but it was like a hiccup.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, okay, And then that's the practice, I did
Speaker 2: the same. Yeah, I get it. So the howl, the
Speaker 2: travel howl, that remained pretty consistent from when you first
Speaker 2: started hearing it to when it reached the top of
Speaker 2: the mountain of forty five minutes an hour or so later.
Speaker 9: It was notably consistent and methodical.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, to describe that howl, I'm curious what that
Speaker 2: was like. It was a whoop along howl, a scream,
Speaker 2: high pitched, low pitch. The frequency, what can you tell
Speaker 2: us about that?
Speaker 5: So I've always described it to my closest confidants as
Speaker 5: an inward howl or an inward drawl. And it had
Speaker 5: a fairly high but medium high pitch, and it was
Speaker 5: it was created, it would be created in drawing the
Speaker 5: lungs in and so the travel or running how how.
Speaker 9: That's what I'm calling it would be like.
Speaker 2: Wow. So that kind of frequency, like, that's how often
Speaker 2: that happened. And that's the approximately the length of the
Speaker 2: vocalization you heard as well.
Speaker 5: From when the moment I heard it until it got
Speaker 5: to the bottom of the cliff field or excuse me
Speaker 5: that the cliff in the rock field, it was consistent
Speaker 5: and just like that wow. And so that was probably
Speaker 5: close to an hour and a half, maybe two hours
Speaker 5: of hearing that.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I had the timeline a little off.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, so what I was saying is it was
Speaker 5: probably close to forty five minutes down in the bottom
Speaker 5: of the ravine, so kind of the flat area, and
Speaker 5: then another say twenty five maybe forty minutes through the
Speaker 5: rock field. And crazy enough, I want to say that
Speaker 5: it climbed that cliff in like five minutes. It was fast,
Speaker 5: maybe it was ten, but really I think it was
Speaker 5: a total of from the time I started hearing it
Speaker 5: to the time it got to me my location was
Speaker 5: an hour.
Speaker 2: And a half. And that's in real person time, not
Speaker 2: the I'm getting the crap scared out of me alone
Speaker 2: in the Marble Mountains time. Imagine it felt like an
Speaker 2: eternity for you.
Speaker 5: Felt like an eternity for sure, and to this day,
Speaker 5: I really I do struggle with putting some real time
Speaker 5: to that.
Speaker 8: But I bet was that the solo extended backpacking trip.
Speaker 5: I don't think it was Bobo no, And I continued
Speaker 5: on the trip.
Speaker 9: I actually had a goal.
Speaker 5: I was going to try and go off route and
Speaker 5: go in to the wilderness off trail, but I really
Speaker 5: couldn't find my way with just wayfinding, and I did
Speaker 5: not want to get lost, and I knew my dad
Speaker 5: would kill me if I got lost, So I went
Speaker 5: back to the trail and continued on and carried out
Speaker 5: a full It was actually ninety eight mile trips.
Speaker 2: That must have changed something with you on that trip,
Speaker 2: Like that's the second day in on a hundred mile
Speaker 2: trip that that certainly must have planted some sort of
Speaker 2: seed in you. For the rest of the trip, just
Speaker 2: thinking like, holy crap, those things are out here.
Speaker 5: Those things were out there, and I knew that, but
Speaker 5: I was in such shock that I put it in
Speaker 5: the depths of my mind. I was so focused on
Speaker 5: doing this trip, hello type A, that I just I
Speaker 5: wanted to do the trip. It was a huge goal
Speaker 5: for me that whole year, and I just I didn't
Speaker 5: want to let it go because of this creature that
Speaker 5: came through my camp.
Speaker 2: Were they on your radar before that trip? I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously of course you were aware of sasquatches, but like,
Speaker 2: did you think they were real? Did you think that
Speaker 2: they're just like a normal forest sort of thing out
Speaker 2: there that I could run into?
Speaker 5: Oka very much on my radar, by then, because the
Speaker 5: summer before is when I worked for the FEDS and
Speaker 5: spent my summer up in the Klamath the whole time,
Speaker 5: and I'd heard stories and I read that great book
Speaker 5: about the bio biodiversity of the sisq.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know what you're talking about, and they mentioned
Speaker 2: it the klimathk Not.
Speaker 9: Is that it the Klamath Knot? That's it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, good one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So they were just barely in my mind. So
Speaker 5: that year that I was working for the FEDS, we
Speaker 5: were doing a survey. We were doing a recreational user survey,
Speaker 5: and I actually ended up interviewing this group of cave
Speaker 5: expeditioners that were heading into the Marbles and they were
Speaker 5: going to try and do some mapping of the caves.
Speaker 5: And they had mentioned at that interview, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: there's there's caves out there, and and we think that
Speaker 5: that that is habitat and home to some of the
Speaker 5: Sasquatch and possibly last remaining Sasquatch on the planet. And
Speaker 5: at the time, I mean I was even a year
Speaker 5: younger then, So when I was eighteen, I kind of
Speaker 5: was like, huh, okay, marked that one in the books.
Speaker 5: And so I mean, I knew that there was the
Speaker 5: concept of these things being out there. And like I said,
Speaker 5: you know, I grew up as an outdoors person with
Speaker 5: my dad, but nothing like what I had actually experienced.
Speaker 8: And you had on your one the year before, You've
Speaker 8: been an interesting observation.
Speaker 6: You thought that it sounded.
Speaker 4: Like I was wounded.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So the reason why I was turned on to the
Speaker 5: book the Klamath Not was I met an individual out
Speaker 5: there and I myself and my partner, my working partner,
Speaker 5: who I wish I could get a hold of, but
Speaker 5: I have no idea how to get a hold.
Speaker 9: Of this person.
Speaker 5: Anyways, he and I both had this creature through our
Speaker 5: camp late one night, and it was it was like
Speaker 5: limping and dragging a foot, so it was like and
Speaker 5: it was doing this same kind of almost like a
Speaker 5: howl or howl or a whoop, but it was more
Speaker 5: of a cry and it cried out and it was
Speaker 5: just parallel to us. And that was right there on
Speaker 5: the Klamath River, and it was parallel to us, and
Speaker 5: it was it was seemingly injured just by the sound,
Speaker 5: but we couldn't see it. We were shining our flashlights
Speaker 5: up there. We couldn't see anything, and then it just stopped.
Speaker 5: There was nothing for like probably ten minutes, and then
Speaker 5: there was a splash in the river and we think
Speaker 5: that it jumped in the river and swam off.
Speaker 2: Oh so you had an entirely different encounter the year
Speaker 2: before during that when you're working for the FEDS. Is
Speaker 2: that what I'm getting right?
Speaker 9: Right? Okay, right, but I mean hearing.
Speaker 5: An supposed injured sasquatch, Yeah, was pretty far from.
Speaker 9: My fathom ability.
Speaker 5: And then so, yeah, you're right, Cliff, there was somewhere
Speaker 5: in the back of my mind where I was aware
Speaker 5: that these creatures possibly existed, and so on the rest
Speaker 5: of my trip.
Speaker 9: I just kind of I really put it.
Speaker 5: I put it in the back of my mind and
Speaker 5: ended up coming into, uh, within three feet of a
Speaker 5: huge black bear.
Speaker 9: And that had me more.
Speaker 5: Concerned than yeah than the first the first guy.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I got to ask ad you happen to
Speaker 2: look around your campsite for footprints the next morning where
Speaker 2: the thing walked through your camp Definitely.
Speaker 5: I packed up and looked around, and I was on
Speaker 5: I was on a rock face.
Speaker 9: There was nothing, nothing.
Speaker 5: And the and the summer before when the alleged injured
Speaker 5: one came through. We looked for footprints in the It
Speaker 5: was one of those spots on the river where it's
Speaker 5: really rocky, but then there's those perfect fine sand, little
Speaker 5: sand beaches and we couldn't see anything, no tracks.
Speaker 8: Okay, you know what's interesting was that you guys got
Speaker 8: the census thing was asking you for help in the
Speaker 8: first Yes.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, sorry, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about that because Bubbo knows a lot
Speaker 2: more about your encounter than I do, so I don't
Speaker 2: know anything, so laid on me.
Speaker 5: Okay, well it okay, I'll tell that story from the beginning.
Speaker 9: That one.
Speaker 5: I guess I've always had a harder time with that
Speaker 5: one because I didn't see it.
Speaker 9: I only heard it. But I'll tell you all about it.
Speaker 5: So my work partner and I we were, you know,
Speaker 5: working for the FED, so we were out camping. It
Speaker 5: was a total internship and making no money.
Speaker 9: It was great, but.
Speaker 5: We were We would find all these different places to
Speaker 5: camp and this one spot was like this old this
Speaker 5: like old road river access and we took the cars
Speaker 5: down there and we were.
Speaker 9: Like, hey, I think this would be a good spot
Speaker 9: to sleep.
Speaker 5: So we ate some food at our cars, and then
Speaker 5: we you know, gathered up our bags and just plopped
Speaker 5: them down on the river, and we each we each
Speaker 5: kind of grabbed one of those little sandy beach spots
Speaker 5: like that was our own little camp site. And so
Speaker 5: he was easily twenty feet away from me, my buddy.
Speaker 5: And so we went to sleep, and I had I
Speaker 5: was again no tent, but I'm in my sleeping bag,
Speaker 5: and I had all my belongings or me, you know,
Speaker 5: my journal.
Speaker 9: My book, my headlamp, and I had a knife.
Speaker 5: So we go to sleep, and I was at that time,
Speaker 5: I was asleep too, and I wake up to the
Speaker 5: sound of this step drag, step drag through what was
Speaker 5: like oak, oak tree.
Speaker 9: Litter or duff. And it went on for a while.
Speaker 5: It was down the way a bit, and it just
Speaker 5: kept getting closer up towards us, and all we could
Speaker 5: hear was step drag, step drag, and it stopped right
Speaker 5: above us, and it cried, and it was like, you
Speaker 5: know that one that one I want. I'll embarrass myself
Speaker 5: if I try to mimic it. But it was this
Speaker 5: this cry for help is what it seemed like. And
Speaker 5: we were flashing our lights up there. We couldn't see anything,
Speaker 5: and I eventually I put my light down and I
Speaker 5: was just gripping my knife, but I sort of let
Speaker 5: down my guard because I'm like and I even said
Speaker 5: over to Ben, I go, Ben.
Speaker 9: What is it?
Speaker 5: And by then I sort of let my guard down
Speaker 5: because it was almost like a emotional It wasn't threatening.
Speaker 5: And we just sat there for a little while it
Speaker 5: all stopped, and I'll.
Speaker 9: Be honest, I fell asleep.
Speaker 5: I fell asleep, and I woke up to the splash,
Speaker 5: the sound of the splash of the river.
Speaker 8: It's draining when you're when you're in a tense situation
Speaker 8: like that, like and your adrenaline is pumping for hours,
Speaker 8: it's so so like it's just drained your whole body.
Speaker 9: No kidding.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so I sometimes get em bare on that
Speaker 5: one that I'm like, yeah, I passed out. I just
Speaker 5: plumb passed out because I was just like, what in
Speaker 5: the heck?
Speaker 9: And and we both did.
Speaker 5: We both passed out cold, So it could have, you know,
Speaker 5: come right past us. And we looked for we looked
Speaker 5: for any kind of tracks in the dusk. The next day,
Speaker 5: where it was walking on the beach in the sand,
Speaker 5: all around and it didn't see anything.
Speaker 2: Well, we thought for a long time they're probably pretty
Speaker 2: aware of their footprints, so that's not too surprising. I
Speaker 2: guess at the end of the day, I want to
Speaker 2: ask you a little bit about the what you actually
Speaker 2: visually observed, you know, so fast forward a year. I
Speaker 2: guess from that that the Olympia encounter, you said that
Speaker 2: it looked like a gorilla. Can you describe what you
Speaker 2: saw from the top of the head down to wherever
Speaker 2: you lost it, you know, to steep presumably, So.
Speaker 5: From the top of the head it had a big
Speaker 5: blackish brown, squatty head, a big face. I still did
Speaker 5: the stake and look right into its eyes, big eyes,
Speaker 5: big bright eyes, kind of a flat face. And the
Speaker 5: way that it turned its neck, it's like it had
Speaker 5: no neck, and it just turned completely to the side,
Speaker 5: almost without moving its shoulders. And the shoulders were very
Speaker 5: broad and wide and huge and draping down with these
Speaker 5: large arms, kind of in a forward motion. So it
Speaker 5: had just climbed itself up and over this rock face,
Speaker 5: and at that point it sort of stopped and was
Speaker 5: about to propel itself to take.
Speaker 9: Off for the mountain.
Speaker 5: When I think it realized that it was not alone.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 5: So it sort of hunched forward, almost like startled. Shoulders
Speaker 5: come forward, just slightly turning, but the neck turns completely
Speaker 5: like ninety degrees over towards me, and then down the
Speaker 5: whole back. I can see its rump and just black
Speaker 5: blackish brown fur the whole way down into the legs,
Speaker 5: muscular legs. I can picture it right now. I mean
Speaker 5: I saw muscles. The thing was huge and ripped and
Speaker 5: broad and covered in her So it.
Speaker 2: Must have been a pretty good moon out. You said
Speaker 2: that earlier, but.
Speaker 5: I believe it was like a few days prior to
Speaker 5: a full moon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then on a rock escarpment. Of course, that reflects.
Speaker 2: And you know, I've done a lot of backpacking in
Speaker 2: the Sierras, for example, and camping on those granite faces.
Speaker 2: It almost is like daylight under good moon conditions. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 5: So yeah, and my eyes were just cranked in that direction.
Speaker 5: I didn't move my body at all, so you know,
Speaker 5: all I could see was what my eyes could see
Speaker 5: in a slightly turned and really periphery.
Speaker 9: But I saw it. That's what I saw.
Speaker 2: You might have said this in your initial description, but
Speaker 2: refreshing my memory if you did. How far away were
Speaker 2: you from it from where it came up over the
Speaker 2: cliff and when it first noticed you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I was on one side of the creek
Speaker 5: anywhere between, you know, fifteen twenty feet maybe thirty at
Speaker 5: the most. And it was just on the other side
Speaker 5: of that little creek or brook by like five or
Speaker 5: ten feet.
Speaker 2: Oh so you're within like forty fifty feet up from
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I think that I was within thirty feet.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's horribly close.
Speaker 5: I'm a forester. I know what thirty feet is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, most people don't, honestly, and I don't,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to slam people or anything, but
Speaker 2: people are just terrible at distances. I'm sure. Because you're
Speaker 2: a forester, you depend on your estimation of distances for
Speaker 2: a lot of what you do, you know, planting trees
Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't know. There's probably a million things
Speaker 2: you do that I have no idea about, but I
Speaker 2: have the layman say, oh, it was ten feet for me,
Speaker 2: then that's like Okay, well, maybe that's fifty, maybe that's thirty.
Speaker 2: You know, don't really know, but you're confident in your
Speaker 2: ability to judge distances at.
Speaker 5: This point, right, Yeah, And I've relived the experience in
Speaker 5: my mind enough and now knowing what thirty feet is,
Speaker 5: confidently that's.
Speaker 9: That's always the number I come back to.
Speaker 5: And I'm looking at thirty feet away from you right now,
Speaker 5: and I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, yep, yeah, it was horrifically close, you know, thirty
Speaker 2: feet ten yards. That's ridiculous, and.
Speaker 5: So honestly, I don't know that it so it was
Speaker 5: slightly hunched forward, not on all fours, but just enough
Speaker 5: to where those arms and shoulders were forward. I don't
Speaker 5: think it was much more than eight feet tall. Maybe
Speaker 5: standing completely upright, it could have been ten. But I
Speaker 5: you know, like when I went to the museum in
Speaker 5: Felton and they have that like the peak through and
Speaker 5: those things are like fifteen feet tall, Like, whoa, I didn't.
Speaker 9: See anything that was fifteen feet tall.
Speaker 5: Just for your guys's records, what I saw, I really
Speaker 5: think was about eight to ten feet tall.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I imagine you spent some time with topo maps
Speaker 2: because you're doing this trip and you're doing you might
Speaker 2: want to go off trail and the whole thing. I'm
Speaker 2: curious why, of all places it walked exactly where you were.
Speaker 2: I mean that it's that's what are the chances of
Speaker 2: that unless it was a path of least resistance in
Speaker 2: some way to get to the top of that mountain?
Speaker 2: Perhaps do you have any insight or thoughts on that?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was off trail. I was. I was off
Speaker 9: in a place that.
Speaker 5: You know, wouldn't have been right off of a trail
Speaker 5: on on a Tobo map. And when I kind of
Speaker 5: was peeking around that that first lake that I thought
Speaker 5: I would get to and camp at, I sort of
Speaker 5: peeked around and just went you know, the extra not
Speaker 5: even quarter mile and sort of looked and was like,
Speaker 5: what in the world, it's this huge rock escarpment, Like
Speaker 5: I'm camping there?
Speaker 9: That's the spot.
Speaker 2: Did the creature drop by the lake on the way
Speaker 2: and like after it left you on the way to
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain?
Speaker 9: No, there was no, there was do not pass go.
Speaker 5: It went from me directly up and continued on its
Speaker 5: already determined route. It knew where it was going and
Speaker 5: did not stop and went directly from the little creek
Speaker 5: or brook that I was on and followed that up.
Speaker 9: To the peak and the lake.
Speaker 5: That little lake would have been off to the west
Speaker 5: by a good quarter mile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the things we've noticed over the years, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: tracked a few sasquatches in our time. Then one of
Speaker 2: the things that comes at is sometimes they're meandering about,
Speaker 2: you know, and the stride that the step lengths are
Speaker 2: usually shorter and all that kind of meandering, like they're
Speaker 2: just kind of poking around, maybe looking for something in particular.
Speaker 2: But there are other times in cases when they seem
Speaker 2: to be going somewhere, like they have a goal in
Speaker 2: mind and for whatever forever reason. And you can tell
Speaker 2: that sometimes because the step length is longer, for example,
Speaker 2: but they seem to hone in on the direction they
Speaker 2: need to go, and they go that way and nothing
Speaker 2: gets in their way. If something's there, they might go
Speaker 2: around something that's insurmountable, some sort of obstacle, but generally speaking,
Speaker 2: they'll go over whatever it is and just goes straight there,
Speaker 2: you know, just just you know, as the crow flies,
Speaker 2: as they say, no matter what's in their way. So
Speaker 2: maybe this is one of those cases perhaps right.
Speaker 5: I've thought about the path a lot, and I think
Speaker 5: that it was either a path that it had traveled
Speaker 5: before multiple times, or it was it was, you know,
Speaker 5: just pre established it was.
Speaker 9: It was definitely a direct route. It knew where it
Speaker 9: was going.
Speaker 2: Do you have any speculations on why it might have
Speaker 2: been going there? I do.
Speaker 5: The week after my trip ended, I was meeting up
Speaker 5: with some friends to go climb at Mount Shasta and
Speaker 5: to go climb the peak, and I'll just tell you, guys,
Speaker 5: I didn't make it. I did not sum it because
Speaker 5: I was so worn out from from the hiking trip,
Speaker 5: and my friends actually left me at the at the start.
Speaker 5: We you know, I made it to base camp. But
Speaker 5: it's a big it's a big climb to go at
Speaker 5: Mount Shasta.
Speaker 2: Well, we won't tell anybody it didn't make it. It's
Speaker 2: just broadcast that no one listens to this, that's all right.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I was so worn out from from the trip
Speaker 5: that I stayed back at our base camp.
Speaker 9: But when we had gone down.
Speaker 5: After that to the little campground for just like a
Speaker 5: after trip camp out before we go had headed back home,
Speaker 5: I met this this woman at the campground there and.
Speaker 9: I was with a group.
Speaker 5: Of girlfriends and so we kind of befriended her and
Speaker 5: a bunch of people that she was camping with and they,
Speaker 5: you know, it was a campground, so they kind of
Speaker 5: had a party that night. And she was this really
Speaker 5: nice lady and she noticed that I was limping and
Speaker 5: she was like, what's wrong.
Speaker 9: Why are you limping? And I was like, oh, my
Speaker 9: knee hurts. I kind of blew it out.
Speaker 5: I just finished up a big hike and it's really sore.
Speaker 5: And she was like, oh, well, I do reiki riki healing.
Speaker 5: Do you do you want me to do like a
Speaker 5: little reiki.
Speaker 9: Treatment on you?
Speaker 5: And I'm like sure, And so we sit down and
Speaker 5: I give her my knee and she's you know, rubbing
Speaker 5: my knee doing whatever.
Speaker 9: And she was really interesting.
Speaker 5: She goes, so you just went on a big backpacking trip,
Speaker 5: a big hiking trip by yourself.
Speaker 9: I'm like yeah.
Speaker 5: She's like that's interesting, and she kind of was looking
Speaker 5: at me funny, and I was like, yeah, this this
Speaker 5: really strange thing happened to me on the trip.
Speaker 9: And she was like, oh, tell me. I was like, well,
Speaker 9: it was pretty wild.
Speaker 5: I'm like i'll tell you, but and so she just listened,
Speaker 5: and she listened to my whole recollection of what had
Speaker 5: just happened. And I didn't even tell my girlfriends when
Speaker 5: we went up to Shasta, I didn't even tell them,
Speaker 5: So she was essentially the very first person who I told.
Speaker 5: And she listened to my story the whole way through,
Speaker 5: and she said, I'm a Koduk Indian and my father's
Speaker 5: Koduk and has been going up every summer, late summer
Speaker 5: and every once in a while. I don't know what
Speaker 5: his pattern is, but my father goes up to the
Speaker 5: tops of the peaks and records sasquatches doing their mating calls.
Speaker 5: And I think that that's what you experienced was a
Speaker 5: sasquatch mating call.
Speaker 8: I'll bet if you can figure out what that peak was,
Speaker 8: I'm sure they do it every year on that same peak.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I can figure it out. I've looked at it
Speaker 9: in the past.
Speaker 5: They just haven't come up with a map file, but
Speaker 5: I can do that. But it made a lot of
Speaker 5: sense to me when she said that.
Speaker 2: I was like, of course, well, yeah, there are. There
Speaker 2: aren't very many reasons animals vocalized in general. I mean
Speaker 2: that because you know they don't want to be they
Speaker 2: don't want to give their spot away, that give themselves away,
Speaker 2: and mating, I suppose would be top on the list,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, unless they're like highly social like
Speaker 2: birds or something like that. You always chirping back and
Speaker 2: forth to when another humans for that matter. And that's
Speaker 2: kind of something I bring up quite often, is when
Speaker 2: you hear a sasquatch vocalize, chances are it's not doing
Speaker 2: that for its own benefit. It's that most animals don't
Speaker 2: talk to themselves. In other words, humans are kind of
Speaker 2: special that way. There might be another one nearby, and
Speaker 2: that's something that you need to keep in mind. I think.
Speaker 6: Yeah, alsoppressed, you didn't hear one to answer at all,
Speaker 6: Not at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's a lot that's expending an awful lot
Speaker 2: of calories to get to at one certain location, you know,
Speaker 2: because that's climbing straight up to the top of a mountain. Basically,
Speaker 2: that's not easy under any circumstance. So to get up
Speaker 2: there and then hoot and holler until morning time, there
Speaker 2: must be a darn good reason to expend all those
Speaker 2: calories doing it, and certainly mating would be one of them.
Speaker 2: Just because a rare species like this that's spread very
Speaker 2: thinly across the landscape has to have some sort of
Speaker 2: trouble finding other sasquatches. Now, and now, let me ask
Speaker 2: you this real fast. And I know that you probably
Speaker 2: didn't see it's junk or anything like that, but did
Speaker 2: you get the impression this was a male or a female?
Speaker 5: I really early on got the impression that it was
Speaker 5: a male. When it was down in the bottom of
Speaker 5: the canyon. It immediately was, like, I said, a crazy man,
Speaker 5: a drunk guy coming for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting that you've suspected, even for
Speaker 2: a moment, that this might be a human. So there
Speaker 2: must have been something about the vocalization that reminded you
Speaker 2: of a human in some sort of way. Stay tuned
Speaker 2: for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll
Speaker 2: be right back after these messages. So, now you're a
Speaker 2: forester for a living. Have you heard other people who
Speaker 2: work for the Forestry Service or FEDS or anything like
Speaker 2: that talk about sasquatch encounters that they've had.
Speaker 5: I only have one friend who's in a slightly related
Speaker 5: position and career share another story. But I have to
Speaker 5: be totally honest with you, I really don't cross mingle
Speaker 5: the sasquatch siding with my professional forestry career. I've you know,
Speaker 5: when I've shared this and my recollection, I've been really
Speaker 5: ridiculed and even by close friends.
Speaker 9: Luckily not any of my family. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 5: My family supports me and what I saw, But I've
Speaker 5: borderline lost friends over this story, and so I tend
Speaker 5: to keep it separate from my forestry career. I've shared
Speaker 5: it with a few people, but you know, there has
Speaker 5: to be a lot of trust there first, and more
Speaker 5: of a friendship. But I do have a friend who
Speaker 5: is in a related hydrology field, and he and his
Speaker 5: wife had actually come across one up in the Feather
Speaker 5: River Canyon apparently and allegedly was like a juvenile, And
Speaker 5: they pulled into this remote campsite up in the Feather
Speaker 5: River Canyon off the highway, and when they pulled in,
Speaker 5: their headlights were shining on this short, kind of squatty
Speaker 5: kid like sasquatch that peered out just from behind the tree,
Speaker 5: kind of walked out, stared at it right in the headlights,
Speaker 5: and then ran off.
Speaker 2: I could be incorrect about this, because I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: I live, and just like Bobo, we both live pretty
Speaker 2: bigfoot centric lives, you know, our lives are you know,
Speaker 2: we're basically drowning in the subject. So we probably have
Speaker 2: a skewed perception on some of this, but it seems
Speaker 2: to me, at least set the Forest Service and a
Speaker 2: lot of those sort of folks in general forest tree
Speaker 2: people are kind of opening up a little bit more
Speaker 2: to it. Like, for example, I live on timberland and
Speaker 2: therefore I get like a tax to ferment because I
Speaker 2: have forests on my property, you know. And so I've
Speaker 2: been dealing a lot with the Malala District guys because
Speaker 2: they have to come out and instect my property because
Speaker 2: the previous owners clear cut it and they want to
Speaker 2: make sure I replant it and all that sort of
Speaker 2: stuff to kind of keep my forest deferment for my property.
Speaker 2: Faxes and I talk to them about bigfoot stuff. They
Speaker 2: haven't seen any, but they're pretty open to it, and
Speaker 2: they have they have some good questions and whatever. And
Speaker 2: as listeners of the podcast will know, this past fall,
Speaker 2: mountain Hood some well some not not in an official capacity,
Speaker 2: but rangers from the mountain Hood National Forests reached out
Speaker 2: to me because they got sasquatch sighting reported to them.
Speaker 2: So it seems that that that icy wall is somewhat
Speaker 2: breaking down to some degree at least. Maybe it's just
Speaker 2: because the old the older folks are retiring or dying
Speaker 2: off and the new generations coming in and they're a
Speaker 2: little bit more open to that sort of thing. Or
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, But can you comment
Speaker 2: at all about anything that I've just said, Like, do
Speaker 2: you think that's true at all? Or what do you
Speaker 2: what are your thoughts?
Speaker 5: I think I think that the icy wall you describe
Speaker 5: is is coming down, but it just doesn't do the
Speaker 5: the scientific community any justice that it's not you know,
Speaker 5: a classified specie species. It's not you know, keyed out
Speaker 5: as a living, existing thing. And so that's where I mean,
Speaker 5: once it is adopted as a as a as a
Speaker 5: classified primate mammal, then that wall's gone. But without having
Speaker 5: that scientific you know, background of a scientific name, it's
Speaker 5: going nowhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you what do you think is going
Speaker 2: to happen? Because you know these are I mean obviously
Speaker 2: you know they're real clearly, you know, And it's only therefore,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, it's really only a matter at time
Speaker 2: until the type specimen is brought in. What do you
Speaker 2: think that will look like from your end, like how
Speaker 2: it will affect your job and and how how do
Speaker 2: you think it will go down? Basically, how it.
Speaker 5: Would affect my my career is you know, it would
Speaker 5: uh probably for one, open up a bunch of experiences
Speaker 5: and encounters that people have never reported and just go, yep,
Speaker 5: I saw one here, I saw one here, and those
Speaker 5: stories will.
Speaker 9: Be coming out of the woodwork.
Speaker 5: And secondly, I mean at that point would probably be
Speaker 5: identified as somewhat endangered, if not extinct species, and so
Speaker 5: there would be protection measures I would hope put into place,
Speaker 5: and so that would be that would.
Speaker 2: Be good, Yeah, because it would have to immediately I imagine,
Speaker 2: be declared endangered even if it's not, and I don't
Speaker 2: think they are necessarily, but I think it would be
Speaker 2: immediately declared as endangered until a thorough ecological study could
Speaker 2: be done and you know the way these things are,
Speaker 2: that could take a decade.
Speaker 5: Man, right, that it would be really beneficial I think
Speaker 5: for the protection and for the knowledge that it is
Speaker 5: a not a hoax or be some you know, mythical creature.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would it would validate a whole lot of witnesses.
Speaker 2: I do that it would go. It would validate entire cultures,
Speaker 2: like the indigenous cultures of North America. They would get
Speaker 2: such a validation to their stories and unique oral traditions.
Speaker 2: But it also, you know, you said the whole lot
Speaker 2: of stories will come out. I would also predict that
Speaker 2: a whole lot of videos and photographs will come out
Speaker 2: that people have just been sitting on because they don't
Speaker 2: want to be thought a fool or the local drunk
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 5: Like that, and hopefully some immediate protection measures.
Speaker 9: So I'll sit on that panel for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic. Well, so, Sarah Bobo and I have both
Speaker 2: heard from more than one source that people are very
Speaker 2: high up in the government are aware of these things.
Speaker 2: But what do you have any thoughts on some sort
Speaker 2: of overarching conspiracy or some nonsense or I think most
Speaker 2: conspiracies are nonsense personally. So are there any conspiracy conspiratorial
Speaker 2: thoughts in your mind about this, because obviously there would
Speaker 2: be a huge economic issue for closing off a lot
Speaker 2: of land and all this other stuff, because we all
Speaker 2: saw what the snailed art fish the consequences of that
Speaker 2: or the consequences of the spotted owl in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say that the logging industry still
Speaker 2: hasn't really fully recovered from that whole ordeal. Do you
Speaker 2: think there's any sort of conspiracy amongst any level of
Speaker 2: government that's a concerted effort or do you think it's
Speaker 2: just individuals not really wanting to talk about it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't know enough to know about a concerted effort.
Speaker 5: But what comes to mind is I think it's more
Speaker 5: in my industry specifically. I think it's more almost of
Speaker 5: a jealous feeling that they haven't seen one and so
Speaker 5: so they immediately.
Speaker 9: Knock it down.
Speaker 5: Now at the higher level, you know, with leadership, government
Speaker 5: decision makers, I'm honestly at a loss of why this
Speaker 5: isn't a you know, a documented species, and so so
Speaker 5: I've had, you know, thoughts of my own of is
Speaker 5: there is there some sort of conspiracy to to protect
Speaker 5: or to hide this creature from legitimacy.
Speaker 9: I mean, I've had that thought.
Speaker 5: Myself a lot, because I saw what I saw and
Speaker 5: it's still not a believed creature for the most part,
Speaker 5: and so it's it's actually kind of frustrating. Not kind of,
Speaker 5: it's very frustrating from my end. It's there's some emotions
Speaker 5: that go along with it, like embarrassment and like I said,
Speaker 5: maybe jealousy from the others.
Speaker 2: You know what, especially with this species of all of them,
Speaker 2: because you know, we study the other apes, for example,
Speaker 2: to learn more about ourselves. That's our biological family, right,
Speaker 2: and you think that like, oh, here's an opportunity to
Speaker 2: learn so much more about where we came from. Like
Speaker 2: why wouldn't they just jump on this. It just doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense to me at all. But so I've always
Speaker 2: thought like, if there is some sort of effort, it's
Speaker 2: really a passive effort. I mean, people aren't going out
Speaker 2: and you know, squat black people in like black SUVs,
Speaker 2: aren't picking up dead ones on the side of the road,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, or anything like that. Although I've heard
Speaker 2: more than my fair share of stories like that. I've
Speaker 2: heard stories probably once every two weeks in my Bigfoot
Speaker 2: museum up here by Portland, Oregon, somebody comes in ask
Speaker 2: me about these conspiratorial ideas of helicopters whisking dead bigfoots
Speaker 2: away from Mount Saint Helens after it blew in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2: But if there is a conspiracy, it must be an
Speaker 2: awful passive one, something like, well, the bigfoots seem to
Speaker 2: be taken care of themselves pretty well, so let's not
Speaker 2: expend any resources towards this because they got outunder control.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah, that's a happy thought. I'm going to go
Speaker 9: with that one.
Speaker 5: And I think I think we're all leaning on you,
Speaker 5: Cliff and Bobo, to help us, you know, help the
Speaker 5: species become something that's validated, recognized and approved by the
Speaker 5: scientific community.
Speaker 8: Well, shoot, this has been a good one, Cliff. What
Speaker 8: do you think that was our best witness testimony so far?
Speaker 2: I'd say that's fantastic. Just the proximity, the encounter, the
Speaker 2: observations you made, and knowing that we're speaking to a legit,
Speaker 2: you know, forestry professional here, all of those things just
Speaker 2: tie into this beautiful situation that you brought us. Man
Speaker 2: that this is an amazing encounter. Thank you so much,
Speaker 2: Boba for setting us up, and thank you so much
Speaker 2: Sarah for joining us.
Speaker 9: Absolutely honored you guys. Thank you so much. And like
Speaker 9: I said, I really appreciate your guys work.
Speaker 5: I've been following you guys and watching the shows and
Speaker 5: now listening to this podcast, and and I really look
Speaker 5: up to you guys. This is this is truly an honor,
Speaker 5: and today's talk has been a dream come true.
Speaker 6: Nerd.
Speaker 9: I used to watch the show a.
Speaker 5: Bunch and I'm like, oh, come on, Cliff yelling at
Speaker 5: you from from my living room.
Speaker 2: Well, you know people yelled at me on set too,
Speaker 2: so yeah.
Speaker 6: I was always have to keep that guy straight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I had Bobo to point the way
Speaker 2: for me. Yeah.
Speaker 9: Good.
Speaker 8: Well, if you see anything else out in the woods
Speaker 8: or here's something, you let us know and come back on.
Speaker 9: Okay, I will do that. Quit my day job.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, quit your day jobs. Do big foot stuff
Speaker 2: full time. There's no money in it, but holy smokes,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 5: Is great.
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you so much, Sarah, Thanks guys, by
Speaker 2: so Bobo man, that was a great witness. I can't
Speaker 2: believe you pulled one out like that. That was amazing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and you recognize that story, I'm sure read off
Speaker 8: the bat.
Speaker 2: I have read it. I have read it, but you know,
Speaker 2: things get jumbled in my mind, you know, like these
Speaker 2: all these basically all the reports from the last twenty
Speaker 2: five twenty six years of doing this just get all
Speaker 2: jumbled up. So it's nice to have a refresher course,
Speaker 2: especially when it's straight from the witness's mouth.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: She was excellent relaying details, and her memory was great.
Speaker 6: Her observational skills were great.
Speaker 2: I mean, and she's cautious. She even said, like at
Speaker 2: one point she said, I'm not so sure that, so
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it, you know, like I
Speaker 2: think it was the peak of the mountain if I
Speaker 2: remember right. She's cautious about what she's saying to make
Speaker 2: sure that everything she's saying is accurate. And I so
Speaker 2: appreciate that from a witness instead of just making something
Speaker 2: up or answering even though they may not be one
Speaker 2: hundred percent for.
Speaker 8: Sure, right right, Yeah, those are the witnesses everyone dreams
Speaker 8: about talking to you.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fantastic man. So thank you, Bob. So that was amazing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we got some great guests coming up, so if
Speaker 8: you listen to this one, folks, we got more coming
Speaker 8: for you. And until next time, keep it Squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
Speaker 2: us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 2: at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Speaker 2: Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
Speaker 2: and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Speaker 2: Bigfoot and Beyond