Speaker 1: Y'all, Welcome to the three hundredth episode a coming out pod. Wow.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe I am so deeply honored surprise to
Speaker 1: be doing the three hundred episode. Before I introduced my
Speaker 1: very very special guest, I just wanted to, yeah, just
Speaker 1: to say a little bit and say thank you to everybody.
Speaker 1: This is three hundred episodes, is I feel like such
Speaker 1: a huge accomplishment, and that is all due to you
Speaker 1: all listening, and you're the reason why this has why
Speaker 1: the pot has kept going for three hundred, three hundred episodes.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you before
Speaker 1: we officially get started and let you know how grateful
Speaker 1: I am to all of you over these many, many
Speaker 1: years and many many episodes. The Queer Root shout out
Speaker 1: for this three hundredth episode is of course thematic. You
Speaker 1: know I love a thematic queer Root shout out. Shout
Speaker 1: out to you if your queer root is the movie
Speaker 1: three hundred. For those who are maybe a little younger,
Speaker 1: I hope everybody at least knows about three hundred. It
Speaker 1: is the movie where Gerard Butler goes this is sporta
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's about this battle in ancient Greece, and
Speaker 1: basically it's a bunch of incredibly good looking, jacked dudes
Speaker 1: being almost totally naked except for loin clause. And it
Speaker 1: is both the most browy and most homo erotic movie
Speaker 1: of all time. We're talking Gerard Butler, we're talking Michael Fassbender,
Speaker 1: we're talking the really beautiful man from Love actually, who
Speaker 1: plays an androgynous like king giant character, And it's just
Speaker 1: it is you. If you haven't seen three hundred, it
Speaker 1: is an incredibly gay movie. All of the soldiers are
Speaker 1: sweating with each other, thrusting spears and swords at or
Speaker 1: near each other. Clearly some of them are boning. It's
Speaker 1: imploied also the like there's like one woman in the
Speaker 1: whole movie, because it's mostly dudes band dudes. But the
Speaker 1: woman in the movie is Lena Heade from Imagine Me
Speaker 1: and You Gay rom com and also from Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so if you were if you were a
Speaker 1: youth and you went to see the movie three hundred,
Speaker 1: and you saw all of these sweaty, almost entirely naked
Speaker 1: dudes backing each other up in battle and mourning each
Speaker 1: other when one of them was fallen on the battlefield. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: maybe that was your first realization that you might be
Speaker 1: a little bit gay, y'all. I am so excited for
Speaker 1: my three hundredth guests. This is a very special guest. Okay.
Speaker 1: She has so many credits that I'm only gonna say
Speaker 1: a few.
Speaker 2: She has been a writer for Late Night with Seth
Speaker 2: Meyers since the show's very beginning in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: She also does a ton of on camera segments. She
Speaker 1: then went on to have her very own late night show,
Speaker 1: The Amber Ruffin Show. When you get to a point
Speaker 1: where a show is your name, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: She's an Emmy and Tony nominated writer, best selling author, podcaster,
Speaker 1: and probably most importantly, the voice of the Purple Eminem
Speaker 1: her current show, Have I Got News for You Here
Speaker 1: Saturdays on CNN and then Sundays the next day on Max.
Speaker 1: But even more important than even more important than the
Speaker 1: Purple Eminem thing is that I have known her for
Speaker 1: almost twenty years because we are old. I know, isn't
Speaker 1: that horrifying? We did Boom Chicago together. Boom Chicago, you
Speaker 1: probably know from listening is It's an English language improv
Speaker 1: slash sketch comedy theater in Amsterdam, Amsterdam, the Netherlands. We're
Speaker 1: talking different country, different language, all different stuff. We both
Speaker 1: did this weirdo job, lived in Amsterdam. This was in
Speaker 1: our twenties. We were wild and crazy, not old people
Speaker 1: like we are now. But that's how we initially know
Speaker 1: each other. Her name, which I already gave away because
Speaker 1: again she had a show named after her, is Amber Rubbin. Hello,
Speaker 1: gonna emver. It's good, it's good, it's good. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to have you. Okay, I don't even know where
Speaker 1: to where to dive in. Do you did I leave
Speaker 1: out anything that you want to, like, did you want
Speaker 1: to let the people's the peoples know about? First off? No,
Speaker 1: you're like, no, you're motive, not at all.
Speaker 3: All.
Speaker 1: Right, then we're gonna dive right in to the question
Speaker 1: I always start with, Amber, I don't even know the
Speaker 1: answer to this. How do you identify.
Speaker 3: I identify as a as a as a queer woman.
Speaker 3: Is that the question? Yeah, I as a queer woman.
Speaker 3: Oh that's what you mean. Yeah, that's going to help
Speaker 3: for the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 1: No, Well, I wanted to ask because like, words are
Speaker 1: words are hard, and I know that when I did
Speaker 1: your podcast, y'all. I was on Amber's very funny podcast
Speaker 1: son Well Well.
Speaker 3: Into the family.
Speaker 1: I felt a part of that family. I felt like
Speaker 1: me And I was like, Lacey, did we know each
Speaker 1: other in a past life? I think it's because Lacey
Speaker 1: and you have a lot of a lot similarity. It's
Speaker 1: the same guy, the same guy, it's the same guy. No.
Speaker 1: The reason why I was excited to ask you the
Speaker 1: identity question is because at one part during that podcast,
Speaker 1: you were like, Flans, we gay, and I was like,
Speaker 1: we gay? And so people use like different words and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I was wondering what word you liked. But I
Speaker 1: thought it might be queer because in your coming out
Speaker 1: Instagram post, you're wearing a shirt to said queer.
Speaker 3: Queer's probably true. Queer is technically what is true. Queers
Speaker 3: is also also true, but.
Speaker 1: Is gay because I am an old and I mean
Speaker 1: I'm old and that I'm old, as I've already mentioned
Speaker 1: like three times. But also like when I came out,
Speaker 1: queer wasn't being used yet, so I use gay, so
Speaker 1: I just still use gay. But for people who have
Speaker 1: come out more recently, queer is like the word now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel.
Speaker 3: Like if like when I came out and I went
Speaker 3: on a like dating app, I stepped my ship to
Speaker 3: non binary. I was like, that's that's where that's.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's see.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that that's where it falls.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: If you gotta find a little category for it, I would.
Speaker 3: I think we're safe to say non binary.
Speaker 1: I think, oh, that's cool. Now the pronouns I'm seeing
Speaker 1: on your screen are she? Her? Is that still what
Speaker 1: you're Oh?
Speaker 3: Yes, but I meant for people I was after on
Speaker 3: a dating you meant for dating.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, okay, look at this, we're learning. Well that's
Speaker 1: why I was surprised. I was like, oh, okay, okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So you.
Speaker 3: There, I go. No, we're getting there.
Speaker 1: You go.
Speaker 3: Getting in there that gay horse?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so then queer totally makes more sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Oh I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh you're after noo. Okay, this is very exciting,
Speaker 1: very exciting. Okay, So here's what I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: have you on this. Well, I'm so excited for many
Speaker 1: many reasons. But when you posted your Instagram post on
Speaker 1: the last day of Pride of this year, so this
Speaker 1: is all recent, this is June thirtieth. You said, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it right now, and what will come as
Speaker 1: a shock to exactly zero people. I'm using the last
Speaker 1: day of Pride to come out. Well, guess what that
Speaker 1: was a shock to at least one person, because Flans
Speaker 1: was shocked.
Speaker 3: Could not be was surprised. Okay, he really was. Listeners,
Speaker 3: here's where we're coming from. I'm I'm forty five years old.
Speaker 3: I just had to just gotten a divorce after being
Speaker 3: married to a man for thirteen years. Now. Before that,
Speaker 3: I lived in Holland mm hmmm, hmmm, where Flans also lived,
Speaker 3: and we worked at a theater. Now, when you leave
Speaker 3: the theater, you get roasted, right, So then my whole
Speaker 3: roast was jokes about how I was gay and didn't know.
Speaker 3: That was the entire roast. Lance got me a copy
Speaker 3: of R. Kelly's show. R Kelly's video Trapped in the Closet.
Speaker 1: Okay, that didn't age well, but I stand by it
Speaker 1: and being one of the funniest existing pieces of media
Speaker 1: in the entire world.
Speaker 3: Also, that's the funniest president. Yes, Christ Trapped in the Wow. Also,
Speaker 3: we watched it this I remember.
Speaker 1: I remember us watching it in the theater on a
Speaker 1: big screen, and again I stand by. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a very bad person, but fuck, that is a very funny,
Speaker 1: unintentionally unintentionally cace of art. I've taught it in improv
Speaker 1: class or I've assigned it as homework, period. I don't
Speaker 1: do that anymore. Okay, Wow, see I don't remember doing that,
Speaker 1: So I guess that a part of me did have
Speaker 1: an inkling at.
Speaker 3: The time that I read Damn.
Speaker 1: Wow did that at the time? Ring it all? Well,
Speaker 1: fuck it, let's just get into like the story from
Speaker 1: wherever you want to start, Like I want to hear
Speaker 1: your coming out story, like your awareness of it, or
Speaker 1: like if when people were making those jokes, were you like,
Speaker 1: ha ha ha, that's funny, or were you like, I'm
Speaker 1: suppressing things right now.
Speaker 3: Like so, like when I was in Amsterdam a thousand
Speaker 3: years ago, at this point, I feel like there weren't
Speaker 3: a lot of actresses at Boom Chicago who were not gay,
Speaker 3: So then like a.
Speaker 1: Lot I was gonna ask about this.
Speaker 3: A lot of folks were gay. So then very often
Speaker 3: people would be like, you're probably gay and you don't
Speaker 3: know it yet, very often all of the time, and
Speaker 3: I'd be like, yeah, I see it. I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't know who, cause I'm sure, great, let's let's see.
Speaker 4: And I just really was really open to the idea
Speaker 4: of it, and I believed everyone too, because I was like,
Speaker 4: I have to make sure that if I ever get
Speaker 4: a girlfriend, I have to be able to be nice
Speaker 4: to her.
Speaker 3: I can't be treating her like I treat these men
Speaker 3: who exists purely for my enjoyment.
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3: Now that's really that should have been the clue. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's true.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Yeah, because you did, I feel like enjoy
Speaker 1: men in Amsterdam, but weren't, at least when I was there,
Speaker 1: weren't were you weren't romantically serious about anybody, at least
Speaker 1: during the time that we overlapped a Boom, which, to
Speaker 1: be fair, I feel like a lot of people during
Speaker 1: their time in Astronaut were not romantically serious about we're
Speaker 1: serious about anything.
Speaker 3: Boom Chicago was. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of being very silly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it's the opposite.
Speaker 1: Of serious things.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so people would be like you gay, and
Speaker 3: I'd be like, great, I can't wait to because like
Speaker 3: everyone I know as a comedian, no one cares, no
Speaker 3: one in my family would give two shits. No one cares.
Speaker 3: So I knew for a fact it didn't matter at all.
Speaker 3: And I had read that sometimes people would find out
Speaker 3: that they're gay and it would make them sad, and
Speaker 3: then I'd be like, oh, okay, I should really do
Speaker 3: the work and accept the fact that one day I
Speaker 3: might end up gay. So I don't feel sad. I
Speaker 3: didn't care. Does nobody care, No one cares, No one cares.
Speaker 3: It is as if I get well, Okay, So here's
Speaker 3: the thing about coming out. Wow, what a meandering mess
Speaker 3: of a story. There is no story. It's just a
Speaker 3: serious as it is. I love meandering. So I did
Speaker 3: the Amber Ruffin show where I just went in on
Speaker 3: trans writes gay blah blah blah. So then first of all,
Speaker 3: lots of people just thought I was gay. And then
Speaker 3: also that had cold it any one who was homophobic
Speaker 3: from yeah, my life. I assume I don't know that
Speaker 3: I knew anyone who was homophobic truly, Yeah, because I
Speaker 3: had been in theater since time began, my the little
Speaker 3: bubble I live in. And also, you know, I don't
Speaker 3: be putting up with shit. Don't come around some black
Speaker 3: woman talking some homophobic shit. I'm not having it because
Speaker 3: I know I'm next, so blah blah blah. I So
Speaker 3: I say that to say I was very open to
Speaker 3: the idea of being a gay person, but I just
Speaker 3: didn't you know, how often do you see someone who
Speaker 3: is a perfectly androgynous woman? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I especially Yeah, Like and when we were in Amsterdam,
Speaker 1: we're talking like pretty early two thousands.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but nobody doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that was that was like original Albard years.
Speaker 3: Was really wasn't a lot of Shanes.
Speaker 1: There weren't a lot of shame Amsterdam. I know.
Speaker 5: Isn't it funny that Shane was like the androgenus you're
Speaker 5: for the early two thousands and now we look at
Speaker 5: Shana where like she's literally wearing gye mag.
Speaker 3: She's not.
Speaker 1: This is so that's so interesting because the other thing
Speaker 1: I wondered because I thought about this, I was like
Speaker 1: Amber was around. I had the same thought. You did
Speaker 1: so many lesbians and Boom Chicago, not just in the actors,
Speaker 1: but like the wait staff, just like like there were
Speaker 1: like so many lesbians. And I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: did we not do a good enough job of like
Speaker 1: being like we're lesbians. If you are too, that's good,
Speaker 1: like whatever, and then well here was my thought. Then
Speaker 1: I was I was thinking, and I was like, unless
Speaker 1: I'm mistaken, every single I'll say queer because I don't
Speaker 1: know how exactly people identify, But every single career at
Speaker 1: Boom was a white lady. And I don't mean like
Speaker 1: not black, I mean white. I mean I can't think
Speaker 1: of a single woman of color who was also queer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that a of all wow, early hello, early two thousand.
Speaker 1: But like do and sorry if this is also like
Speaker 1: a dumb white lady question, But was the fact that
Speaker 1: they're not just a Boom but like in the world
Speaker 1: and like media, in like your day to day life
Speaker 1: was not seeing non white queer women, Like do you
Speaker 1: think like that was part of you not necessarily identifying
Speaker 1: with what you were seeing or is that? I don't just.
Speaker 3: Think so, But they do say you got to see
Speaker 3: it be it. Yeah they're really talking about like being
Speaker 3: class president or some shit, but maybe also this dude.
Speaker 3: But I wouldn't think so, because I think it's more
Speaker 3: like being attracted to a person.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just simply.
Speaker 3: There was no one to be attracted too.
Speaker 1: They just don't make sense. That does make okay, that
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I asked
Speaker 1: us because I remember when I was in high school
Speaker 1: because I thought I was by for like a long time,
Speaker 1: like into my like twenties, like when I broke up
Speaker 1: with Heather shout out to our mutual friend, my first
Speaker 1: girlfriend ever and boom actor Heather. After college, I went
Speaker 1: back to dating guys, so I thought I was by
Speaker 1: like into my early twenties. I know, which is crazy
Speaker 1: because you only know me as like a very gay,
Speaker 1: small person, so that doesn't make any sense. But it
Speaker 1: took me a long time to stut out. But thank you.
Speaker 1: That's all I ever wanted to hear. But I remember
Speaker 1: in high school, so now we're talking like nineties. In
Speaker 1: high school, there was one out lesbian at my school
Speaker 1: shout out to Alex at Stable's High school and connect again,
Speaker 1: and I did not relate to her at all. So
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I can't be a lesbian because
Speaker 1: Alex is what a lesbian is and I'm not like her.
Speaker 1: So I'm by And I did that for like a decade.
Speaker 1: So I just wondered if if that was any of it.
Speaker 1: But it sounds more like there just weren't any ladies
Speaker 1: or non binary folks walking around in your twenties that
Speaker 1: made you be like, ooh, I must reevaluate. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the times had to catch up to you.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's my problem late in life. There's been
Speaker 3: no way ahead of my time.
Speaker 1: You're ahead of your time. I also said this on
Speaker 1: your podcast, but I don't the light in life thing,
Speaker 1: even though I'm not invalidating how it feels. I literally
Speaker 1: had someone in the group that I facilitate on Mondays
Speaker 1: be like, I feel like I'm a late and they
Speaker 1: were in their thirties and I was like, you're not
Speaker 1: a light in life was But again, not to invalidate
Speaker 1: how it feels, but my rule is unless you are
Speaker 1: over sixty five, I'm like, I don't think that's late
Speaker 1: in life. That's just that's my personal feeling.
Speaker 3: But again, I'm sixty.
Speaker 1: Remember you look at what's your skin regime.
Speaker 3: It's just butter.
Speaker 1: Your skincare is butter. It's better. Yeah, So I'm glad
Speaker 1: to hear that you weren't like repressing anything or like
Speaker 1: struggling with anything. It just literally wasn't there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, there's literally there was none of the none
Speaker 3: of those people existed.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 3: I got married, so then other people just didn't exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm not a cheaty guy and I'm not a little
Speaker 3: horn dog. So I was just having a great time,
Speaker 3: just not cheating, living life.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And then so is what happened that,
Speaker 1: like the times got up to you caught up to
Speaker 1: you ladies, and non binary people started being more androgynous,
Speaker 1: and then you were like bing or or did I
Speaker 1: miss a step?
Speaker 3: What happened was I got a divorce, and then so
Speaker 3: that came for us? Did so? Then after I got
Speaker 3: a divorce, And I had said before if I ever
Speaker 3: but I did, I would never say get a divorce.
Speaker 3: I would always say if I ended up a widow,
Speaker 3: because that was how sure I was. I was gonna
Speaker 3: stay married forever. But I would say if I ended
Speaker 3: up a widow, my uh, I wouldn't date men. Again.
Speaker 3: I did say that. I thought that was true. I've
Speaker 3: heard that on.
Speaker 1: This podcast before. Yeah, I literally people have said. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A recent guest once told her therapist that her life
Speaker 1: plan was to marry a man and quote watch him
Speaker 1: die and then and then have a second life dating women,
Speaker 1: and the therapist was like, ah, but yeah, so that's
Speaker 1: like a common that's well, I'm glad no one had
Speaker 1: to die for that to happen.
Speaker 3: Now. Also, that was really late in the marriage where
Speaker 3: I was like, hmm, okay, I don't know this, this
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but it's not. But did but that did
Speaker 1: that start to like occur to you in the late
Speaker 1: stages of the marriage, Like, were there people walking around
Speaker 1: like New York that you were like, that person's attractive. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting thought that I haven't had before about.
Speaker 3: I mean, I knew that I thought that that type
Speaker 3: of person was attractive, but I certainly didn't care that
Speaker 3: I thought that, Like, I didn't mean anything like there's
Speaker 3: hot guys running around all the time. They don't mean
Speaker 3: anything good. You know, who cares? I just thought the
Speaker 3: same thing. Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1: A lot of aesthetic appreciation for hot guys, but no
Speaker 1: interest beyond that. So I feel like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me and I do a segment on Late Night
Speaker 3: with Seth Myers called joke Seth Can't Tell Jenny with
Speaker 3: noted lesbian Jenny Hagel.
Speaker 1: She us a noted lesbian. It's very true.
Speaker 3: And so then we were like, how did we not know?
Speaker 3: We just tried to figure it out, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: The conclusion I've come to is you don't. There just
Speaker 3: wasn't anyone to look at. Yeah, and also I was
Speaker 3: too married.
Speaker 1: Yeah, both of those things together are a powerful Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Jenny also didn't. I don't have to feel that
Speaker 1: silly because Jenny also didn't. She was a little a
Speaker 1: little surprised too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is so interesting though, because reading the comments on
Speaker 1: your Instagram post, there were a lot of people who,
Speaker 1: like you said, who were like I thought she was
Speaker 1: already out, Like, so there was a big sect of
Speaker 1: people maybe like view, maybe people who like didn't know
Speaker 1: you or didn't know you that well but just thought
Speaker 1: your whole vibe and esthetic was already queer. But then
Speaker 1: it sounds like maybe those of us who knew you
Speaker 1: more personally were like double taking a little bit.
Speaker 3: I feel like someone texts did no someone someone said
Speaker 3: one of my friends said to their barber, you know
Speaker 3: who I amberg roughness, And the barber goes that, uh yeah,
Speaker 3: and my friend goes, oh, she's gay. Now she recently
Speaker 3: figured out she was gay, and he goes with her
Speaker 3: Janelle Monas, and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, that's a great compliment, especially.
Speaker 3: Covered from a barber, Like you're right.
Speaker 1: Ass Wow, okay, Yeah, So I guess a lot of people,
Speaker 1: a lot of people saw it, but I think those
Speaker 1: of us who knew you, yeah, like you're saying new
Speaker 1: you is like, well her dog who like like having
Speaker 1: fun with boys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for a while it was so fun, but you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah this is okay, all right, you can do.
Speaker 1: Have people already brought up that you could technically do
Speaker 1: jokes Seth can't tell all by your loadsome.
Speaker 5: Now you would never want to box out Jenny, but like, wow,
Speaker 5: you really.
Speaker 3: Seth does a bit on YouTube I think called corrections
Speaker 3: where he just goes through and like reads comments left
Speaker 3: on YouTube and then goes in and issues corrections blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. And then he goes he's reading some correction.
Speaker 3: He goes, Yeah, the next joke Seth can't tell will
Speaker 3: be interesting. Let's just say there's been a redundancy car
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So since your personal realization had a lot to do
Speaker 1: with like being finally being able to be attracted to
Speaker 1: people because the the I don't know, esthetic style, fashion
Speaker 1: whatever finally went into your vent diagram of what you
Speaker 1: think it sucks? A do you have? Because I always
Speaker 1: shout out a queer root at the beginning of every episode?
Speaker 1: Do you have like a person in like I don't know,
Speaker 1: like either a famous person or like someone you like
Speaker 1: passed by on the street briefly, or like you was
Speaker 1: there like a queer root? Was there like a moment
Speaker 1: that you first remember being like that is what I've
Speaker 1: been looking for and didn't see until two thousand and whatever.
Speaker 3: Okay, do you have? Have you seen the musical fun Home?
Speaker 1: I've seen it. I mean I saw it at LA
Speaker 1: So why.
Speaker 3: Aren't you calling this what is your Ring of Keys moment?
Speaker 1: Oh? Because you know why? Because A like I want
Speaker 1: to get sued, and two because in fun Home, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a little more like same same you
Speaker 1: know in that song, like she's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I want to like be
Speaker 1: or aspire to. And I feel like a root is
Speaker 1: more like me watching Mannikin when I'm little, being and
Speaker 1: like looking at Kim Cattrell and being like, oh, I
Speaker 1: like that lady and not knowing what that means, but
Speaker 1: knowing that I like that lady, who's the manniquin so
Speaker 1: which and no part of me had an illusion that
Speaker 1: like I was going to grow up and be that,
Speaker 1: Like I already knew as a young child, I was
Speaker 1: not going to grow up to be Kim Cantrell. But
Speaker 1: I did know that I like looking at Kim Cattrell
Speaker 1: and would probably spend a lot of my adult life
Speaker 1: chasing women like that who then emotionally became mann against
Speaker 1: if not factly anyway, that's not a podcast, not me,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I guess that's why. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: ring a Key's moment, Yeah, ring a Key's moment, queer rude,
Speaker 1: anything like that that felt that like sticks out to you.
Speaker 3: I one time, I do think that two gay butch women,
Speaker 3: I think they can see that I am gay, and
Speaker 3: I think unless you're that I might not seem very
Speaker 3: gay but gay butch woman, every gay butch woman is
Speaker 3: like my man, and I'm like no, But they were
Speaker 3: all right because one time at a party, at an
Speaker 3: SNL after party, I spent it's gotta be like I
Speaker 3: don't know, it could have been a year, a minute
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, thirty minutes, twenty minutes talking to this
Speaker 3: lady who was a butch lesbian, talking talking, talking, talking, talking,
Speaker 3: and then I mentioned my husband and it was she
Speaker 3: like left, like a puff of smoke, instantly she had disappeared. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, I've been that lady before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was like, was I flirting with this
Speaker 3: woman this whole time? I don't think I was, but yeah,
Speaker 3: every once in a while, I feel like three times
Speaker 3: ever that has happened to me, and it's been just
Speaker 3: a butch lesbian and I talked to her too long
Speaker 3: and then yeah goes down like that. Yeah, but I yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that has happened to me a couple of
Speaker 3: times where we're talking, we're talking and oh, this is
Speaker 3: something else. Like once I was talking to some woman
Speaker 3: who was one of Heather's friends, and she walked me
Speaker 3: home from some night out. And she walked me home
Speaker 3: and I didn't it didn't occur to me what was happening.
Speaker 3: And then she waited while I got my keys out,
Speaker 3: and it didn't occur to me what was happening. And
Speaker 3: then I was like oh oh oh oh no no no, no,
Speaker 3: no no, But I see again, Like I get it.
Speaker 1: I bet god. I hope all these ladies saw your
Speaker 1: post and were like, I.
Speaker 3: Know I told her, all, yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, so you accidentally broke a few hearts prior to this.
Speaker 1: I don't think that, hey, it's not it's not your fault.
Speaker 1: Queer lady. Hearts get broken real easily, as I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know. Now, we get really attached, real real, real fast.
Speaker 1: You imagine a whole life and then they say husband,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, that's the gift of queer ladies.
Speaker 1: We story right really well. And you're a writer, so
Speaker 1: you slide right into this. That's right right into this lifestyle. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is okay, this is so interesting.
Speaker 2: So what was I'm so excited so as you start,
Speaker 2: so you get divorced and then you're like free to
Speaker 2: explore this stuff.
Speaker 1: What was the moment Like when you do an Instagram
Speaker 1: post and you are a famous lady, you know that
Speaker 1: is immediately going to get like picked up by whatever outlet,
Speaker 1: and like, so you didn't think.
Speaker 3: That, absolutely not. I thought who's gonna care? But I
Speaker 3: did make the post because I was like, you know how,
Speaker 3: I just didn't I didn't want to be on the
Speaker 3: inside of any homophobic shit, like a little bit of
Speaker 3: your little a yucky gay joke, Like I don't want
Speaker 3: to be on the other side of that, and I
Speaker 3: want you to know that's gonna get like a rebuke
Speaker 3: from me. But also like I didn't like how I
Speaker 3: don't know, it felt like, you know, how light skinned
Speaker 3: black people would be passing, Like it felt like passing
Speaker 3: a little bit, And I was like, I don't like
Speaker 3: where this is, especially in the way with what our
Speaker 3: nation is hurling towards, hurdling, towards.
Speaker 1: Hurdling, hurdling, but it's.
Speaker 3: I think it's herdle jerkling, has hurdle jerkling towards It's
Speaker 3: like I couldn't be on the other side of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I get that. Before that post, though, I
Speaker 1: assumed there was like telling friends, family stuff like what
Speaker 1: what was that sort of who is the very first person?
Speaker 1: Who was the first person you're told?
Speaker 3: I got on a dating app, on a queer dating app,
Speaker 3: I set my shit to non binary. I found a
Speaker 3: person I thought was cute. I sent the person to
Speaker 3: Jenny Hagel. Now they don't allow you to take a
Speaker 3: picture of you know, the you can't screenshot. You can't
Speaker 3: screenshot the app. So I was like, okay, we were
Speaker 3: in LA for something for the Emmy Si Zoom and
Speaker 3: then I asked Ian Morgan, one of the old writers
Speaker 3: on Late Night Seth, to borrow his phone. I took
Speaker 3: a picture of the person I was chatting with with
Speaker 3: Ian's phone. I sent the picture to Jenny Hagel from
Speaker 3: Ian's phone. I deleted the picture from Ian's phone give
Speaker 3: the phone back to Ian. A little bit later, Ian goes,
Speaker 3: who's the picture that person you put on my phone?
Speaker 3: I was like that, No, I get cut.
Speaker 1: Oh no, you're very first attempt at being sneaky. You
Speaker 1: immediately got.
Speaker 3: C Yeah, I got cat.
Speaker 1: We didn't grow up with this kind of technology. It's
Speaker 1: not hard.
Speaker 3: No, you don't know. I can't screenshot it, and I
Speaker 3: should be able.
Speaker 1: So he was technically the first person you accidentally came
Speaker 1: out to be.
Speaker 3: Because it's an accident. Poor Ian.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful though. Wow. I know that obviously that that
Speaker 1: person whose picture it was can't know, but I wish
Speaker 1: that they had some or I assume they can't know,
Speaker 1: but I hope that there's like, oh, maybe they do now.
Speaker 1: I just hope that that her said, has some whether
Speaker 1: it's conscious or unconscious, has some glowing, warm feeling that
Speaker 1: like I'm the person.
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, okay, cool cool duds. I'm a cool dude.
Speaker 1: And so you are. Obviously you're very close to your sister.
Speaker 1: You've written books with her, you have the podcast with her.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forget. You guys hate each other, but
Speaker 1: you're you're bound. You're like Gilbert and Sullivan. You really
Speaker 1: don't get along, but creatively you do all this stuff together.
Speaker 1: So like you have to. Yeah, that's rough. But in
Speaker 1: terms of telling like her, in terms of telling like
Speaker 1: your mom, what was like did you do friends first
Speaker 1: and like then do family or like I didn't tell
Speaker 1: my parents until like everyone else in my life, there
Speaker 1: was something what was he?
Speaker 3: I feel like I told everyone, like I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I remember kind of remember telling Jenny. But also Jenny
Speaker 3: was there through the whole thing where I was like,
Speaker 3: got a divorce, cried, I thought I was gonna die,
Speaker 3: got better, was fine, then was having fun, and then
Speaker 3: got on the apps. So she was there for the
Speaker 3: whole thing. So I don't know that I was like Jenny,
Speaker 3: I'm gay. I think Jenny was just along for the ride.
Speaker 1: But what's the kid say?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Lacey, I feel like I had to have told.
Speaker 1: Lacy still doesn't know.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I went on a date and Lacey sent
Speaker 3: a picture of I sent a picture of the person
Speaker 3: I went on a date with, and then Lacey sent
Speaker 3: back a picture of our wedding. It's like, Lacey, I
Speaker 3: love her, She's so bad. But then I told mom
Speaker 3: and dad okay, and mom and dad were like like shocked,
Speaker 3: like it was like a like it was like gossip.
Speaker 3: They're like, oh gosh.
Speaker 1: Like that they forgot that you were there. They just
Speaker 1: got excited about gossip. They got excited about celebrity gossip
Speaker 1: and forget that.
Speaker 3: They were very funny and they could give two ships
Speaker 3: do not care at all. And I knew it, but
Speaker 3: no one cared. I've never had There's nothing less eventful.
Speaker 3: I could get braids and it'd be a bigger deal.
Speaker 1: Okay, I got all hairs. Hair is a big very important.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, hair is real important. Okay, that
Speaker 1: that's really nice. I like that it wasn't. I like
Speaker 1: that nobody gave you a hard time. I like that
Speaker 1: you didn't get any shit. Yeah, I don't know it
Speaker 1: all seems it all seems real.
Speaker 3: Good because if you love me, you watched Amber Ruffin show,
Speaker 3: And if you watched Amber Ruffin show, you already on board,
Speaker 3: you already know what it is. Wow. That's yeah, I
Speaker 3: really did myself a favor.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, I want is there is there anything?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Is there anything else that like sticks
Speaker 1: out to you that you want to like talk about
Speaker 1: or like, were there any did you do the thing
Speaker 1: where you go back and you look at your childhood
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, that was super gay. Oh oh
Speaker 1: I had a crush on that little person when I
Speaker 1: was also a little like anything like that that you
Speaker 1: didn't realize at the time, but you sort of retroactively were.
Speaker 3: Like, I never ever ever had a crush on a
Speaker 3: woman ever, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because little kids are definitely not. But when I am little,
Speaker 1: leather cuffs and stuff, well, well.
Speaker 3: I did have a leather sweatsuit.
Speaker 1: You had a leather sweatsuit as a as.
Speaker 3: A child, as a fucking five year old child, I
Speaker 3: look good as hall but also gay as hell because
Speaker 3: it was I'm like, if I.
Speaker 1: Knew that, I wouldn't have been surprised by the Instagram post.
Speaker 1: If I knew you as a five year old had
Speaker 1: a leather sweat's okay, wow? Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I was also just an outdoor child. I was outdoor,
Speaker 3: I was biting, I was daring and taking dares. I
Speaker 3: was certainly yeah, certainly one of those.
Speaker 1: Did you get called tomboy a lot?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: And are yeah maybe?
Speaker 3: Oh? Also when I was a kid, I got called
Speaker 3: little boy a lot? Oh shit, oh yeas more direct
Speaker 3: they thought for sure. I was a little boy for
Speaker 3: so many people. So like at the park, give the
Speaker 3: ball back to that little boy, here you go. Little
Speaker 3: boy happen to me quite.
Speaker 1: A bit, Okay, I mean I also I had like
Speaker 1: a bowl cut, and like, I don't remember if I
Speaker 1: got called little boy, but I definitely I had the
Speaker 1: short hair thing going for like my whole childhood. I
Speaker 1: had little little flans hair. Oh as we called it.
Speaker 1: This is okay? Well that I mean, does has there
Speaker 1: been any kind of have you had any kind of
Speaker 1: thoughts about gender? Like earlier when you said non biner
Speaker 1: and I thought you were saying that you had check
Speaker 1: non biner for yourself. I was like, oh wow, that's
Speaker 1: so interesting. That's not what you meant. But has since
Speaker 1: coming out in terms of sexuality. A lot of folks
Speaker 1: who I talked about this podcast, it's like they have
Speaker 1: this realization about their sexuality and then like years later,
Speaker 1: start to have realizations about their gender as well, because
Speaker 1: it's like once you open one door, then you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: there are other doors in here that I didn't know. So, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you rock suits all the time, but
Speaker 1: you've always we were We all wore suits at Boom,
Speaker 1: Like you're not gonna do improv in a skirt, Like
Speaker 1: that's just not practical. So we were all wearing suits.
Speaker 3: You've always I've always had a closet full of suits.
Speaker 1: Now your suits are like fucking stepped up. Holy shit.
Speaker 3: Now it's some of us buying the suits, so they
Speaker 3: look really good.
Speaker 1: There are some fancy yeah suits. Yeah, but like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, does that what did that barber call you
Speaker 1: your little genemna?
Speaker 3: Ask?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I don't know, is that anything that you
Speaker 1: like feel like has been more liberate or something now
Speaker 1: that you're I, I.
Speaker 3: Willn't feel like I have any changes in my gender
Speaker 3: in any way. Yeah, only because I think I'm too
Speaker 3: old for the ideas such a thing.
Speaker 1: I totally get that. I totally yeah.
Speaker 3: And also I don't think I would because the nature
Speaker 3: of being like, I'm probably certainly not non binary, but
Speaker 3: I'm certainly if there's a scale, I'm not on the
Speaker 3: end of it.
Speaker 1: I hear you loud and clear with that.
Speaker 3: By nature of that, then I'm too sloppy and raggedy
Speaker 3: to give it to it. Like I'm just too raggedy
Speaker 3: to have put such a thing in a category. I'm
Speaker 3: busy biting and running.
Speaker 1: You are really busy.
Speaker 3: Hook and snakes at people like that. That's the child
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: You gotta hook it snakes scamber. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: that you want to talk about that you want to
Speaker 1: say pertaining to queer stuff, pertaining to queer adjacent stuff,
Speaker 1: like what what is it like talking about this? Is
Speaker 1: it like fun and exciting? Or is it still like scary?
Speaker 1: And is it what? What is it like? This is
Speaker 1: I'm so honored that you would talk about this? Is
Speaker 1: ever outlets try to get you to.
Speaker 3: You're the only person who cares. Yes, you me and
Speaker 3: Sophia Bush. End of list.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's right you. I saw that picture
Speaker 1: of you with Sophia. But Sophia Bush will be my
Speaker 1: future wife. I understand that she's in a very serious,
Speaker 1: committed relationship right now, but at some point and I
Speaker 1: will wed. So I was a little jealous when I
Speaker 1: saw that picture of you too, but so she cared.
Speaker 1: Sophia and buch.
Speaker 3: Care we were like late life lesbians unite. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: very cute.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, that's so interesting. Well I whatsapped Alice when
Speaker 1: I saw your post, because she's not on Instagram that much,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Alice, did you know about this?
Speaker 1: Did you see this? And she was like no, what,
Speaker 1: Oh my god? So she cared. Alice is our friend
Speaker 1: in Amsterdam. So I just want you to know that
Speaker 1: there are some of us who who were surprised, delighted
Speaker 1: and wanted I wanted you to do an interview. So
Speaker 1: even if the magazines aren't, the paparazzi isn't hunting you down,
Speaker 1: Flans was I want to talk to Amber about this?
Speaker 3: Yay? Oh good, you got me? I got you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's fun. It seems like it's the easiest thing of
Speaker 3: all time. I mean, nothing has been easier than this.
Speaker 3: I also thought it I could. I just couldn't find
Speaker 3: you know, because if you come out, there's supposed to
Speaker 3: be some kind of difficulty. I couldn't find it, and
Speaker 3: I was like, well, at some point I'm really going
Speaker 3: to have to endure the tribulations that are gay brothers
Speaker 3: and sisters and siblings have had to answer. And don't
Speaker 3: nobody give two fucking shits. It's the most uneventful thing
Speaker 3: that has ever happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really fucking glad that that's been your experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've I have talked to several well, I've talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of people on this podcast who have felt
Speaker 1: like not necessarily guilty, but they're like, I thought this
Speaker 1: is gonna be hard and traumatic and like because we
Speaker 1: all grew up with those like very special episodes where
Speaker 1: it's like a character has like a three episode arc
Speaker 1: where it's like Blossom's gay friend, and then they come
Speaker 1: out and they get kicked out of their house and
Speaker 1: then like by the third episode it's like bye, you've
Speaker 1: ever seen them again. So I think a lot of
Speaker 1: us do feel like if we don't face some of
Speaker 1: the shittiness, it's like, I don't know, like not as
Speaker 1: valid or like or like we feel guilty a little bit.
Speaker 1: But there's no precedent for that other than society having
Speaker 1: been shitty in the past, and it is getting better.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's real divided right now. So
Speaker 1: parts of it are a lot worse, but parts of it,
Speaker 1: like the parts that you and I are lucky enough
Speaker 1: to live and are way way way better. And so
Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks, especially coming out now,
Speaker 1: are really lucky that they're not having that shitty experience.
Speaker 1: And if people can bypass that, fuck, yeah, Like that's
Speaker 1: that's what the ancestors want. You want people to be
Speaker 1: having better experiences than they Yeah.
Speaker 3: I feel like if you're an old woman in comedy,
Speaker 3: which I am, if you're black, which I also am,
Speaker 3: then you did it. You did it. You had to.
Speaker 3: You had to get all the bad stuff, you had
Speaker 3: to endure it. People were crazy, they talk SI all
Speaker 3: the fucking time, and then to have this one neat
Speaker 3: thing that was supposed to be terrible, It's like someone
Speaker 3: else already did that, someone like easy for me, sure,
Speaker 3: but somebody was out here, you know, as a comedian,
Speaker 3: hosting shows and shit and podcasting, and their gay ass
Speaker 3: got it. And because they got it, I don't have to.
Speaker 3: So like I see that, and I think it's pretty
Speaker 3: cool because lord knows, I took it for a lot
Speaker 3: of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well that's I mean, I'm looking at your
Speaker 1: posts again and I really like you ended it, you said,
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to be discriminated again for a
Speaker 1: new reason. So very funny. But I'm really glad that that.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, still waiting. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I'll come, I mean probably, but you know, if you
Speaker 1: ever check. I'm sure if you ever check any of
Speaker 1: those hidden folders on social.
Speaker 5: Media, I don't, but just don't. Don't do that, and
Speaker 5: it may never come.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna check it, Dodge.
Speaker 1: You'll get some real nice ones. Some you inspired me
Speaker 1: and I told my parents because of you, and you
Speaker 1: let me know I could be myself. Hey, I guess
Speaker 1: a real bad one. That's the beauty.
Speaker 3: Are you sure you don't want this? And it's a
Speaker 3: picture of a dick?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll probably get some pictures. Probably anyone who texts
Speaker 1: their secret folder is going to get pictures of dicks. Okay, Well, Amber,
Speaker 1: where and how can the people find you? You have
Speaker 1: so much? You have books out there, you have a podcast,
Speaker 1: which I guessed on you have you have moving pictures
Speaker 1: on the TV that people can look at every week.
Speaker 1: Where can folks follow you and write your inspirational messages?
Speaker 3: People can? Yeah, they should be writing me messages. People
Speaker 3: can find me at Amber Ruffin across all social media things.
Speaker 3: I assume I shouldn't have said. I assume I think
Speaker 3: that's true.
Speaker 1: If you search Amber Ruffin, you will. You're gonna come up.
Speaker 1: I've done this and that you come.
Speaker 3: Up, so you'll find me and there.
Speaker 1: Fine, Yeah, find Amber. And can you say the name
Speaker 1: of your and Lacey's books on your podcast?
Speaker 3: Lacey and I have two books called You'll Never Believe
Speaker 3: What Happened To Lacey? Crazy Stories about Racism, and then
Speaker 3: the second one is called World Record Book of Racist Stories.
Speaker 3: Our podcast is called The Amber and Lacy, Lacey and
Speaker 3: Amber Show. I'm on Late Night with Seth Myers. I'm
Speaker 3: on Have I Got News for You? Which is a
Speaker 3: Shewan CNN and that can be found the next day
Speaker 3: on Max. And that's probably everything.
Speaker 1: And you're the Purple Eminem and I'm the Purple Eminem.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: So you can find Amber anywhere you eat em and
Speaker 1: M's Amber thank you so much for talking to me
Speaker 1: about those Thank you for letting me know that, like,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that the lesbians of Boom didn't let you
Speaker 1: down as a community, and just they're just worried, they're
Speaker 1: just weren't those people around. But we were lesbian and
Speaker 1: pretty good in your face at Boom. So I feel
Speaker 1: okay good. I was. I was worried we didn't lesbian
Speaker 1: hard enough, but we pretty hard. Realisbe had pretty hard? Okay?
Speaker 1: I am at Lauren Flans on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flanns
Speaker 1: on Instagram, podcast is at Coming Out pod everywhere. This
Speaker 1: has been the three hundredth episode, y'all. Holy crap, thank
Speaker 1: you for listening all these three hundred years. That's not
Speaker 1: how it works, but you know what I mean. This
Speaker 1: will also be the last episode of the year. Not
Speaker 1: good yeah, yeah, America. It's the last episode of America.
Speaker 1: Have a good holiday season, have a good New Year's
Speaker 1: And I don't know the next time I'll be in
Speaker 1: your ear holes, but you'll know because suddenly you'll hear
Speaker 1: my voice and you'll be like, oh, Lauren's back in
Speaker 1: my ear holes.
Speaker 3: Havever you We did it.
Speaker 1: Bye.