WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:17.160 Y'all, Welcome to the three hundredth episode a coming out pod. Wow. 2 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:26.800 I cannot believe I am so deeply honored surprise to 3 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:31.359 be doing the three hundred episode. Before I introduced my 4 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:36.520 very very special guest, I just wanted to, yeah, just 5 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:39.920 to say a little bit and say thank you to everybody. 6 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.280 This is three hundred episodes, is I feel like such 7 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:49.119 a huge accomplishment, and that is all due to you 8 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:55.280 all listening, and you're the reason why this has why 9 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.960 the pot has kept going for three hundred, three hundred episodes. 10 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:06.200 So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you before 11 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.519 we officially get started and let you know how grateful 12 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:13.159 I am to all of you over these many, many 13 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:19.359 years and many many episodes. The Queer Root shout out 14 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:27.040 for this three hundredth episode is of course thematic. You 15 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.079 know I love a thematic queer Root shout out. Shout 16 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.920 out to you if your queer root is the movie 17 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:42.640 three hundred. For those who are maybe a little younger, 18 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:48.719 I hope everybody at least knows about three hundred. It 19 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.040 is the movie where Gerard Butler goes this is sporta 20 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.840 but yeah, it's about this battle in ancient Greece, and 21 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:04.079 basically it's a bunch of incredibly good looking, jacked dudes 22 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:10.400 being almost totally naked except for loin clause. And it 23 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.560 is both the most browy and most homo erotic movie 24 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:19.599 of all time. We're talking Gerard Butler, we're talking Michael Fassbender, 25 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.680 we're talking the really beautiful man from Love actually, who 26 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:31.240 plays an androgynous like king giant character, And it's just 27 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.240 it is you. If you haven't seen three hundred, it 28 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.560 is an incredibly gay movie. All of the soldiers are 29 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:45.639 sweating with each other, thrusting spears and swords at or 30 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:51.280 near each other. Clearly some of them are boning. It's 31 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:55.479 imploied also the like there's like one woman in the 32 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.759 whole movie, because it's mostly dudes band dudes. But the 33 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.439 woman in the movie is Lena Heade from Imagine Me 34 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:08.560 and You Gay rom com and also from Game of Thrones. 35 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.719 But yeah, so if you were if you were a 36 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.599 youth and you went to see the movie three hundred, 37 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.599 and you saw all of these sweaty, almost entirely naked 38 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:25.039 dudes backing each other up in battle and mourning each 39 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:32.080 other when one of them was fallen on the battlefield. Congratulations, 40 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:37.479 maybe that was your first realization that you might be 41 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.400 a little bit gay, y'all. I am so excited for 42 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:49.639 my three hundredth guests. This is a very special guest. Okay. 43 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.039 She has so many credits that I'm only gonna say 44 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:53.439 a few. 45 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.159 She has been a writer for Late Night with Seth 46 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.000 Meyers since the show's very beginning in twenty fourteen. 47 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.199 She also does a ton of on camera segments. She 48 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.199 then went on to have her very own late night show, 49 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:08.879 The Amber Ruffin Show. When you get to a point 50 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.800 where a show is your name, that's a big deal. 51 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:17.680 She's an Emmy and Tony nominated writer, best selling author, podcaster, 52 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.240 and probably most importantly, the voice of the Purple Eminem 53 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.600 her current show, Have I Got News for You Here 54 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:30.120 Saturdays on CNN and then Sundays the next day on Max. 55 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.319 But even more important than even more important than the 56 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:37.720 Purple Eminem thing is that I have known her for 57 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:42.360 almost twenty years because we are old. I know, isn't 58 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:48.879 that horrifying? We did Boom Chicago together. Boom Chicago, you 59 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.079 probably know from listening is It's an English language improv 60 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:59.360 slash sketch comedy theater in Amsterdam, Amsterdam, the Netherlands. We're 61 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:04.079 talking different country, different language, all different stuff. We both 62 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:09.199 did this weirdo job, lived in Amsterdam. This was in 63 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.360 our twenties. We were wild and crazy, not old people 64 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.199 like we are now. But that's how we initially know 65 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.519 each other. Her name, which I already gave away because 66 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.680 again she had a show named after her, is Amber Rubbin. Hello, 67 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:32.800 gonna emver. It's good, it's good, it's good. I'm so 68 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:38.399 excited to have you. Okay, I don't even know where 69 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.120 to where to dive in. Do you did I leave 70 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.439 out anything that you want to, like, did you want 71 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:48.519 to let the people's the peoples know about? First off? No, 72 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.720 you're like, no, you're motive, not at all. 73 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:52.319 All. 74 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.920 Right, then we're gonna dive right in to the question 75 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.920 I always start with, Amber, I don't even know the 76 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.759 answer to this. How do you identify. 77 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:09.120 I identify as a as a as a queer woman. 78 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:15.199 Is that the question? Yeah, I as a queer woman. 79 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:17.360 Oh that's what you mean. Yeah, that's going to help 80 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:18.279 for the rest of the podcast. 81 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.439 No, Well, I wanted to ask because like, words are 82 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.560 words are hard, and I know that when I did 83 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.519 your podcast, y'all. I was on Amber's very funny podcast 84 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:35.600 son Well Well. 85 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.360 Into the family. 86 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.639 I felt a part of that family. I felt like 87 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.639 me And I was like, Lacey, did we know each 88 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.000 other in a past life? I think it's because Lacey 89 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:51.639 and you have a lot of a lot similarity. It's 90 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:57.319 the same guy, the same guy, it's the same guy. No. 91 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:00.360 The reason why I was excited to ask you the 92 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.040 identity question is because at one part during that podcast, 93 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.199 you were like, Flans, we gay, and I was like, 94 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:11.319 we gay? And so people use like different words and stuff, 95 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.399 and I was wondering what word you liked. But I 96 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.920 thought it might be queer because in your coming out 97 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.680 Instagram post, you're wearing a shirt to said queer. 98 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:26.040 Queer's probably true. Queer is technically what is true. Queers 99 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.399 is also also true, but. 100 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:36.480 Is gay because I am an old and I mean 101 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.920 I'm old and that I'm old, as I've already mentioned 102 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.519 like three times. But also like when I came out, 103 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.800 queer wasn't being used yet, so I use gay, so 104 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.600 I just still use gay. But for people who have 105 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:53.240 come out more recently, queer is like the word now. 106 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:56.040 So yeah, I feel. 107 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:02.120 Like if like when I came out and I went 108 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:06.600 on a like dating app, I stepped my ship to 109 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:11.519 non binary. I was like, that's that's where that's. 110 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:12.839 Oh, that's see. 111 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.000 I didn't know that that's where it falls. 112 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:18.399 That's awesome. 113 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:23.680 If you gotta find a little category for it, I would. 114 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.000 I think we're safe to say non binary. 115 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.680 I think, oh, that's cool. Now the pronouns I'm seeing 116 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.159 on your screen are she? Her? Is that still what 117 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:36.320 you're Oh? 118 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.200 Yes, but I meant for people I was after on 119 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.000 a dating you meant for dating. 120 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.879 Oh shit, okay, look at this, we're learning. Well that's 121 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.200 why I was surprised. I was like, oh, okay, okay, gotcha. 122 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:48.840 So you. 123 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:52.399 There, I go. No, we're getting there. 124 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:52.720 You go. 125 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:58.159 Getting in there that gay horse? 126 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.519 Okay, yeah, so then queer totally makes more sense. 127 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:04.200 Yeah right, Oh I love that. 128 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:10.039 Yeah, Oh you're after noo. Okay, this is very exciting, 129 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:16.200 very exciting. Okay, So here's what I'm so excited to 130 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.879 have you on this. Well, I'm so excited for many 131 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:25.919 many reasons. But when you posted your Instagram post on 132 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:29.080 the last day of Pride of this year, so this 133 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.639 is all recent, this is June thirtieth. You said, I'm 134 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:35.639 looking at it right now, and what will come as 135 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.320 a shock to exactly zero people. I'm using the last 136 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.120 day of Pride to come out. Well, guess what that 137 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.720 was a shock to at least one person, because Flans 138 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:45.799 was shocked. 139 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:52.639 Could not be was surprised. Okay, he really was. Listeners, 140 00:09:52.639 --> 00:10:00.240 here's where we're coming from. I'm I'm forty five years old. 141 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.879 I just had to just gotten a divorce after being 142 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:09.879 married to a man for thirteen years. Now. Before that, 143 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:16.799 I lived in Holland mm hmmm, hmmm, where Flans also lived, 144 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.279 and we worked at a theater. Now, when you leave 145 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:25.879 the theater, you get roasted, right, So then my whole 146 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:31.519 roast was jokes about how I was gay and didn't know. 147 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:38.720 That was the entire roast. Lance got me a copy 148 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:44.240 of R. Kelly's show. R Kelly's video Trapped in the Closet. 149 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.679 Okay, that didn't age well, but I stand by it 150 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.879 and being one of the funniest existing pieces of media 151 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:52.080 in the entire world. 152 00:10:52.399 --> 00:11:02.080 Also, that's the funniest president. Yes, Christ Trapped in the Wow. Also, 153 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:05.720 we watched it this I remember. 154 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.000 I remember us watching it in the theater on a 155 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.080 big screen, and again I stand by. I mean, he's 156 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.120 a very bad person, but fuck, that is a very funny, 157 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:20.840 unintentionally unintentionally cace of art. I've taught it in improv 158 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:25.879 class or I've assigned it as homework, period. I don't 159 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:30.159 do that anymore. Okay, Wow, see I don't remember doing that, 160 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.679 So I guess that a part of me did have 161 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:35.639 an inkling at. 162 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.399 The time that I read Damn. 163 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:45.000 Wow did that at the time? Ring it all? Well, 164 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.120 fuck it, let's just get into like the story from 165 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:48.919 wherever you want to start, Like I want to hear 166 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:53.320 your coming out story, like your awareness of it, or 167 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.000 like if when people were making those jokes, were you like, 168 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.360 ha ha ha, that's funny, or were you like, I'm 169 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.159 suppressing things right now. 170 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.840 Like so, like when I was in Amsterdam a thousand 171 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.960 years ago, at this point, I feel like there weren't 172 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.240 a lot of actresses at Boom Chicago who were not gay, 173 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.200 So then like a. 174 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.159 Lot I was gonna ask about this. 175 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:21.320 A lot of folks were gay. So then very often 176 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.720 people would be like, you're probably gay and you don't 177 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.960 know it yet, very often all of the time, and 178 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.559 I'd be like, yeah, I see it. I mean, I 179 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.240 don't know who, cause I'm sure, great, let's let's see. 180 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.279 And I just really was really open to the idea 181 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.279 of it, and I believed everyone too, because I was like, 182 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.519 I have to make sure that if I ever get 183 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.399 a girlfriend, I have to be able to be nice 184 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:46.679 to her. 185 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.000 I can't be treating her like I treat these men 186 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.600 who exists purely for my enjoyment. 187 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.759 Okay, so yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes. 188 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:03.000 Now that's really that should have been the clue. But yeah, 189 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:03.759 that's true. 190 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.120 Okay, interesting, Yeah, because you did, I feel like enjoy 191 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.799 men in Amsterdam, but weren't, at least when I was there, 192 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:17.159 weren't were you weren't romantically serious about anybody, at least 193 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:22.320 during the time that we overlapped a Boom, which, to 194 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.960 be fair, I feel like a lot of people during 195 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.240 their time in Astronaut were not romantically serious about we're 196 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:31.919 serious about anything. 197 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.840 Boom Chicago was. Yeah. 198 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.279 Yeah, it's kind of being very silly. 199 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:40.320 Yeah, yes, it's the opposite. 200 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:41.639 Of serious things. 201 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.000 But yeah, so people would be like you gay, and 202 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.879 I'd be like, great, I can't wait to because like 203 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:54.120 everyone I know as a comedian, no one cares, no 204 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.080 one in my family would give two shits. No one cares. 205 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.519 So I knew for a fact it didn't matter at all. 206 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.200 And I had read that sometimes people would find out 207 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.360 that they're gay and it would make them sad, and 208 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:12.000 then I'd be like, oh, okay, I should really do 209 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:16.120 the work and accept the fact that one day I 210 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.240 might end up gay. So I don't feel sad. I 211 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.159 didn't care. Does nobody care, No one cares, No one cares. 212 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.200 It is as if I get well, Okay, So here's 213 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.879 the thing about coming out. Wow, what a meandering mess 214 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:33.919 of a story. There is no story. It's just a 215 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:40.559 serious as it is. I love meandering. So I did 216 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:46.200 the Amber Ruffin show where I just went in on 217 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:52.840 trans writes gay blah blah blah. So then first of all, 218 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:56.200 lots of people just thought I was gay. And then 219 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:01.600 also that had cold it any one who was homophobic 220 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:06.639 from yeah, my life. I assume I don't know that 221 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:10.320 I knew anyone who was homophobic truly, Yeah, because I 222 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:14.039 had been in theater since time began, my the little 223 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.279 bubble I live in. And also, you know, I don't 224 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.679 be putting up with shit. Don't come around some black 225 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:23.879 woman talking some homophobic shit. I'm not having it because 226 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:29.799 I know I'm next, so blah blah blah. I So 227 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.320 I say that to say I was very open to 228 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:38.679 the idea of being a gay person, but I just 229 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.799 didn't you know, how often do you see someone who 230 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.639 is a perfectly androgynous woman? You know what I mean? 231 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.480 Yeah, I especially Yeah, Like and when we were in Amsterdam, 232 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.039 we're talking like pretty early two thousands. 233 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.639 Yeah, but nobody doing it. 234 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:05.919 Yeah yeah, yeah, that was that was like original Albard years. 235 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.840 Was really wasn't a lot of Shanes. 236 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:14.440 There weren't a lot of shame Amsterdam. I know. 237 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.480 Isn't it funny that Shane was like the androgenus you're 238 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.080 for the early two thousands and now we look at 239 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.080 Shana where like she's literally wearing gye mag. 240 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:27.200 She's not. 241 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:31.759 This is so that's so interesting because the other thing 242 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.279 I wondered because I thought about this, I was like 243 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.399 Amber was around. I had the same thought. You did 244 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:43.519 so many lesbians and Boom Chicago, not just in the actors, 245 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.679 but like the wait staff, just like like there were 246 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.639 like so many lesbians. And I was like, oh no, 247 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.080 did we not do a good enough job of like 248 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.360 being like we're lesbians. If you are too, that's good, 249 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.720 like whatever, and then well here was my thought. Then 250 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.039 I was I was thinking, and I was like, unless 251 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.759 I'm mistaken, every single I'll say queer because I don't 252 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.920 know how exactly people identify, But every single career at 253 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.759 Boom was a white lady. And I don't mean like 254 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.240 not black, I mean white. I mean I can't think 255 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:25.240 of a single woman of color who was also queer. Yeah, 256 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.319 and that a of all wow, early hello, early two thousand. 257 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.519 But like do and sorry if this is also like 258 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.480 a dumb white lady question, But was the fact that 259 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.880 they're not just a Boom but like in the world 260 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.279 and like media, in like your day to day life 261 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:48.880 was not seeing non white queer women, Like do you 262 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.279 think like that was part of you not necessarily identifying 263 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.880 with what you were seeing or is that? I don't just. 264 00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.799 Think so, But they do say you got to see 265 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:03.359 it be it. Yeah they're really talking about like being 266 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.559 class president or some shit, but maybe also this dude. 267 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.400 But I wouldn't think so, because I think it's more 268 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.160 like being attracted to a person. 269 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.200 Okay, I just simply. 270 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.240 There was no one to be attracted too. 271 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.000 They just don't make sense. That does make okay, that 272 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.400 makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I asked 273 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.640 us because I remember when I was in high school 274 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.000 because I thought I was by for like a long time, 275 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:36.319 like into my like twenties, like when I broke up 276 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.960 with Heather shout out to our mutual friend, my first 277 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:46.599 girlfriend ever and boom actor Heather. After college, I went 278 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.799 back to dating guys, so I thought I was by 279 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:55.359 like into my early twenties. I know, which is crazy 280 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.880 because you only know me as like a very gay, 281 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.279 small person, so that doesn't make any sense. But it 282 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.680 took me a long time to stut out. But thank you. 283 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.440 That's all I ever wanted to hear. But I remember 284 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:11.079 in high school, so now we're talking like nineties. In 285 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.920 high school, there was one out lesbian at my school 286 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.039 shout out to Alex at Stable's High school and connect again, 287 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.400 and I did not relate to her at all. So 288 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:24.319 I was like, well, I can't be a lesbian because 289 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.680 Alex is what a lesbian is and I'm not like her. 290 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.160 So I'm by And I did that for like a decade. 291 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.279 So I just wondered if if that was any of it. 292 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.960 But it sounds more like there just weren't any ladies 293 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:42.039 or non binary folks walking around in your twenties that 294 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:50.039 made you be like, ooh, I must reevaluate. Yeah. Yeah, 295 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.519 so the times had to catch up to you. 296 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.039 That's right, that's my problem late in life. There's been 297 00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.640 no way ahead of my time. 298 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.720 You're ahead of your time. I also said this on 299 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.279 your podcast, but I don't the light in life thing, 300 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:09.240 even though I'm not invalidating how it feels. I literally 301 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.759 had someone in the group that I facilitate on Mondays 302 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:14.880 be like, I feel like I'm a late and they 303 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.599 were in their thirties and I was like, you're not 304 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:20.200 a light in life was But again, not to invalidate 305 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.279 how it feels, but my rule is unless you are 306 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.200 over sixty five, I'm like, I don't think that's late 307 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:31.039 in life. That's just that's my personal feeling. 308 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.720 But again, I'm sixty. 309 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.079 Remember you look at what's your skin regime. 310 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:39.279 It's just butter. 311 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:50.079 Your skincare is butter. It's better. Yeah, So I'm glad 312 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:54.319 to hear that you weren't like repressing anything or like 313 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.599 struggling with anything. It just literally wasn't there. 314 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:02.599 Yeah. Wow, there's literally there was none of the none 315 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.839 of those people existed. 316 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.119 And then yeah, that's very true. 317 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.680 I got married, so then other people just didn't exist. 318 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:10.559 Yeah. 319 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.119 I'm not a cheaty guy and I'm not a little 320 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.319 horn dog. So I was just having a great time, 321 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.359 just not cheating, living life. 322 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:31.279 Yeah yeah, yeah, And then so is what happened that, 323 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.200 like the times got up to you caught up to 324 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:39.960 you ladies, and non binary people started being more androgynous, 325 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.920 and then you were like bing or or did I 326 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.640 miss a step? 327 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.160 What happened was I got a divorce, and then so 328 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.680 that came for us? Did so? Then after I got 329 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.680 a divorce, And I had said before if I ever 330 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.480 but I did, I would never say get a divorce. 331 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.599 I would always say if I ended up a widow, 332 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.279 because that was how sure I was. I was gonna 333 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.359 stay married forever. But I would say if I ended 334 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.799 up a widow, my uh, I wouldn't date men. Again. 335 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.200 I did say that. I thought that was true. I've 336 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:18.839 heard that on. 337 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.640 This podcast before. Yeah, I literally people have said. Yeah. 338 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.519 A recent guest once told her therapist that her life 339 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:32.640 plan was to marry a man and quote watch him 340 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.839 die and then and then have a second life dating women, 341 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.640 and the therapist was like, ah, but yeah, so that's 342 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.640 like a common that's well, I'm glad no one had 343 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.279 to die for that to happen. 344 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.000 Now. Also, that was really late in the marriage where 345 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.559 I was like, hmm, okay, I don't know this, this 346 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.359 doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing. 347 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:03.599 Okay, yeah, but it's not. But did but that did 348 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.039 that start to like occur to you in the late 349 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.680 stages of the marriage, Like, were there people walking around 350 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:13.079 like New York that you were like, that person's attractive. Oh, 351 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.720 that's an interesting thought that I haven't had before about. 352 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:23.440 I mean, I knew that I thought that that type 353 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.519 of person was attractive, but I certainly didn't care that 354 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.480 I thought that, Like, I didn't mean anything like there's 355 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.839 hot guys running around all the time. They don't mean 356 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:38.119 anything good. You know, who cares? I just thought the 357 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.200 same thing. Yeah, I have. 358 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.799 A lot of aesthetic appreciation for hot guys, but no 359 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:55.200 interest beyond that. So I feel like, yeah, yeah. 360 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.160 Yeah, me and I do a segment on Late Night 361 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.240 with Seth Myers called joke Seth Can't Tell Jenny with 362 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.039 noted lesbian Jenny Hagel. 363 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.440 She us a noted lesbian. It's very true. 364 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:10.359 And so then we were like, how did we not know? 365 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.319 We just tried to figure it out, Like, I don't know. 366 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:19.000 The conclusion I've come to is you don't. There just 367 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:23.359 wasn't anyone to look at. Yeah, and also I was 368 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:24.000 too married. 369 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:30.279 Yeah, both of those things together are a powerful Yeah. 370 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.799 So Jenny also didn't. I don't have to feel that 371 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:38.519 silly because Jenny also didn't. She was a little a 372 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:39.519 little surprised too. 373 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:40.039 Yeah. 374 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.200 This is so interesting though, because reading the comments on 375 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.079 your Instagram post, there were a lot of people who, 376 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:50.440 like you said, who were like I thought she was 377 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.799 already out, Like, so there was a big sect of 378 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:58.319 people maybe like view, maybe people who like didn't know 379 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.960 you or didn't know you that well but just thought 380 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.640 your whole vibe and esthetic was already queer. But then 381 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.839 it sounds like maybe those of us who knew you 382 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.960 more personally were like double taking a little bit. 383 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:18.119 I feel like someone texts did no someone someone said 384 00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:21.240 one of my friends said to their barber, you know 385 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:28.720 who I amberg roughness, And the barber goes that, uh yeah, 386 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.960 and my friend goes, oh, she's gay. Now she recently 387 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.559 figured out she was gay, and he goes with her 388 00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.839 Janelle Monas, and I. 389 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.559 Was like, yeah, that's a great compliment, especially. 390 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.319 Covered from a barber, Like you're right. 391 00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:49.880 Ass Wow, okay, Yeah, So I guess a lot of people, 392 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:53.480 a lot of people saw it, but I think those 393 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.759 of us who knew you, yeah, like you're saying new 394 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:03.160 you is like, well her dog who like like having 395 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.480 fun with boys. 396 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.240 Yeah, for a while it was so fun, but you know. 397 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:19.480 And yeah, yeah this is okay, all right, you can do. 398 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:22.920 Have people already brought up that you could technically do 399 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.960 jokes Seth can't tell all by your loadsome. 400 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.880 Now you would never want to box out Jenny, but like, wow, 401 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:32.279