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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Rich Claer from Middlebury, Indiana, and I

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played golf at Savanas Country Club in Three Rivers, Michigan.

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This is Golf Smarter number.

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Speaker 2: Four hundred and seventy eight, published on March three, twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Golf Smarter mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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Speaker 1: For me was kind of hit and miss. It was elusive.

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You know.

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Speaker 4: I developed an attitude that if I wasn't going to

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be a great striker the ball, then maybe I'll be

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a great putter and have a great bunker game and

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pitching game and have.

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Speaker 1: A good attitude. You know.

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Speaker 4: I had to develop my ball striking skill over time.

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And I've always been a good player, and I think

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that most golfers would look at my ball striking and say, hey.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty dark good.

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Speaker 4: But there's a difference between the way Fred Couples hits

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it and the way Bubba why And hits it. And

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then the way that I hit it in high school.

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You know what I mean, There's just a difference.

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Speaker 1: So you start searching.

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Speaker 4: For Hey, how do you do that? What do I

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need to change to be like that? I think that's

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for me where the spark came in coaching is being

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able to take in some knowledge to apply it, to

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learn to make a difference not only for myself, but

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to make a difference for the people at the club.

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I gave my first lesson when I was sixteen. Yeah,

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I played golf with the members. You're better than they are,

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and they say, oh, hey, can you help me with this?

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And I just kind of made it a challenge to

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deliver a result. So I would say that my attitude

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towards the game splintered into more of a coaching path

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versus a playing path at a very very young age.

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And there was a multitude of Factorier's associated with that.

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But one was struggling with my own game, being a

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little bit undersized and falling behind the curve, and the

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other was hitting balls next to a guy like Jim

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Ferick every day and just seeing someone that was clearly

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better than you were.

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Speaker 2: The joy of hutting yeah, right with Jeff Ritter, this

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is Golf Smarter. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Fred. So good to be back, my friend.

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Speaker 2: Oh it is so great to have you back. Man.

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I went through the list. This is the twelfth appearance

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on the Golf Smarter Podcast for you, Is it really Yeah? Yeah,

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you've been You've been showing up here beating down my

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door notes the other way around. I've been beaten down

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your door to bring you back ever since like late

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twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 4: I've always had such a great time talking to you,

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and thank you. I'm connecting with your listeners and we've

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had some big life changes the last couple of years,

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and it was great to, you know, to get your

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email and get the invitation to.

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Speaker 1: Be back on the show.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Well, it's great to have you on

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because I feel like I get to brush up against greatness.

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Is as close as I'm going to get. Your brand

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is spectacular and just continues to grow. So let's just

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get started. What is going on with make the Turn Challenge?

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We will? You announced that it was coming up here

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on the podcast well over a year ago, and you

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gave us some hints to it. But now you're well

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into it, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: I remember that show, and one of the things I

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always tell people is that when you declare what you're

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going to do to the world, not only helps you

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activate it, but it also makes you actually have to

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do it. So I remember putting it on that show,

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going gosh, I hope this whole thing can come together,

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And it really did in fantastic fashion because I think

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when we talked to you, I mean I'd only filmed

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like a pilot episode, and Golf was interested, and it

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just turned out to be something that was way bigger

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and better than even I could could have imagined. So basically,

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we filmed fifty video challenges in the areas of golf performance, mindset,

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fitness and nutrition, which are really the four pillars of

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performance that we like to coach at make the turn

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of what we now call MTT performance, and we submitted

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them to Golf Digest. They put about every single week

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on Tuesday is a challenge number last challenge of our series,

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so every single week for it, and then only put

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out a video on Golf DIGESV. It was actually pushed

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out by Condonast Magazine group and I went to AOL, Yahoo,

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Huffington Post, you know, everywhere the condonast magazine would push

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out digital content. It went and it really took off,

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and we found out that recently that it was the

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number one watch program on Golf Digest TV, if not

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for the whole year, at least for certain spots. The

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numbers were astronomical and Golf Died which was really cool.

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They actually let me do a weekly blog in association

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with each one of the videos, so there's always that

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story behind the story. So the tip is, you know,

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about one and a half to three minutes or the challenge,

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I should say, But then if you wanted to learn

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more about, you know, my inside perspective on where it

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came from from or what inspired me, you can actually

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go to a golfdis dot com.

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Speaker 1: There's a blog section called the.

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Speaker 4: Loop and you can go ahead and read all about it.

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Speaker 1: So it's archive at golfdies dot com.

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Speaker 4: Hill you have to do is click video search, make

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the turn, and any of your listeners can go ahead

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and watch them all and enjoy them.

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Speaker 2: Well, Lis, it's been almost fifteen months since you were

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last on. Let's talk about some of the different challenges

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and explain what this actually means to people who've not

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heard about this yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, as a coach, you know

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a lot of times you're asked to create all these

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these how to tips or how to videos. You know,

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this is how you stop slicing it, this is how

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you stop topping and whatnot. And you know, I wanted

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to do something a little bit different, which really wasn't

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a perspective on how to do something.

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Speaker 1: It was more of a.

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Speaker 4: More of a nudge or a push or a means

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of activating people to go out and try something new.

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So from a golf performance based perspective, you know, we

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had drills associated with your perfect rhythm. From a mindset perspective,

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we had awareness exercises that we talked about in the

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past with the paper clips, which were designed to help

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you become more aware of when your attitude stinks, you know,

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and maybe that's going to help you on the golf

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course or off. For the nutrition challenges, when we had

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that called mind Over Menu, which was basically, you know,

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you get off the eighteenth hole and you go to

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the clubhouse and you're you're hungry and you're going to

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eat something. You know what can you actually order on

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the menu or what can you swap out on the

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menu to help you maintain your health goals, your weight

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loss goals, or you know, things that are important to

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you that you sometimes fall off the rails with just

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because you're starving.

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Speaker 1: You're craving those carbs and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, give me, give me a load of fried

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food and some alcohol.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's kind of.

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Speaker 4: What happens, you because when people are on the course spread,

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they don't they don't drink enough water, they don't snack

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throughout their round, They get tired, they get thirsty, and

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all a sudden they hit the clubhouse and it's like, man,

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how fast can I get a pitcher of beer in

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amount of nachos? And you know, and I'm a guy,

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you know, and I like watching sports, and I like

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my occasional beer, and I like my occasional you know,

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nachos and whatnot. But the thing is is that people

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just you know, they they set themselves up to fail

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where those experiences happen way too often, you know.

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Speaker 1: So we like to get people.

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Speaker 4: To you know, set aside a day or two which

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is your cheap day, you know, sort of on a

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Saturday or Sunday, that's your golf day and that's sort

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of what you want to do.

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Speaker 1: Hey, that's fine.

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Speaker 4: But you know, if you're active and you're out there,

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and if you're traveling with your with your company, or

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you're with your family, or you know, you're just a

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busy guy or woman, and you know, life gets in

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the way. You know when to make sure that the

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choice that you're making don't get you spiraling down to

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the point where you're you're sluggish and you're you're unhappy,

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and you're gaining weight and poor energy, and you don't

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sleep well and you got inflammation.

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Speaker 1: And on and on and on.

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Speaker 4: So you know, the the Challenge series was kind of

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using golf as a tool for positive activation in the

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game or out, and every lesson was designed to to

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be there to help you learn something about yourself, to

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help you have more fun with the game, but also

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to uh to really give you some tools that we

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think can really help your lifestyle in every endeavor, even

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when you're not on the golf course.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's part of the reason why I've always loved

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to talk to you, because it's not just swing mechanics

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with you.

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Speaker 4: No, it's not, you know, And the thing is that

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with our with our brand, you know, I'm sort of

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the the chief ambassador behind the movement so to speak.

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You know, I conjured up the the concept a few

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years ago. But you know, everything that I do comes

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from me really just wanting to create a brand that

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that keeps me on point and makes me want to

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be the best I can be.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I had a.

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Speaker 4: History in fitness, not as a coach, but as a

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participant where my life was really transformed by some some

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key people. So fitness became part of you know, my

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life and what I like to infuse into my coaching.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Married, you know, a nutrition coach, you know, so the

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nutrition component, you know, became part of my lifestyle. And

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then spend a lot of time with the fantastic friend

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of mine. His name is Chris Doris. He's a Fortune

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one hundred and five hundred leadership coach. He's worked with

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PGA tour players and whatnot, and you know, all of

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these mindset topics that we've gone over over the years

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have come from Chris. So, you know, make the term

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became you know, golf performance, which is my especialty mindset, fitness,

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you know, and nutrition. But we always like to say,

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you know, however good you think you can be, you know,

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we believe that through.

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Speaker 1: Good coaching, you know, maybe you can be even a

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little bit better.

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Speaker 4: So we're all about raising the bar, increasing expectations, and

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then creating a strategy to take concepts that are inherently

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complex and make them simple and doable and sustainable and

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really get you excited about prospects for you on the

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golf course.

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Speaker 2: Raw, it's fabulous. So what is the future now that

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you've been doing this for fifties seventy weeks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's it's exciting. So it's not the end

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of the line at all. So Golf Die Just is

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really excited about the success of the series and this

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first series, I mean it was it was a hard one, Fred,

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because you know golf digests, you know, they've never filmed

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fifty of anything for one one problem. If you go

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to Golf Die Just TV, they have a lot of

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different really great series that they that they run, but

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a lot of them are you know, ten episodes or

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fifteen episodes, and it's just you know, it's it's a

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cost issue.

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Speaker 1: It just takes a lot of Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, video is expensive.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it takes a lot of time, it takes a

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lot of money. It's difficult to get locations for extended periods.

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So you know what I did is I said, hey,

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this is what I want to do. I know it's ambitious,

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but if I if I can pull it off, will.

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Speaker 1: You run it? Of course they said yes. So this

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first one was sort of all on me.

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Speaker 4: I hired the video crew, I wrote all the challenges,

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I secured all the locations, was able to define some

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sponsors to help some for what we did, so we

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kind of went big and yeah. So now Golf Digest

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they're excited about talking about, you know, creating an offshoot

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of the video challenge series and doing something else that's

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still within the the MTT genre. So it's all about

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building the brand and you know, sort of being that

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lightning rod for personal activation. So that's the first thing

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which is exciting. So I guess I got to get

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working on what's going to be next there. And then

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the other thing that you and I talked about was

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the fact that we recently became.

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Speaker 1: Partners with the Golf Channel.

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Speaker 4: So the Golf Channel has decided to get into the

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Golf instruction slash growing the game business so to speak,

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you know, And they're not doing it by trying to

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create a standardized, you know, methodology on how to coach.

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Speaker 1: But what they've done is they've identified.

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Speaker 4: Some key coaches and some key locations throughout North America

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that they want to partner with, being business with and

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try and grow the game with. So coming Masters Week,

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people that watch Golf Channel programming are going to start

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seeing a rollout of a new initiative called Golf Channel Academy.

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And they had a show called Golf Channel Academy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, that's not a new initiative

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that's been around for a while.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that's the TV show.

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Speaker 4: But the Golf Channel Academy now is the actual hands

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on academy experience that people throughout North America can can

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engage in. So right now, I think they've got about

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forty locations by Master's Week, I think they're going to

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have about fifty locations. As you look globally, in the

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next five years, they're projected to do as high as

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one hundred and fifty locations.

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Speaker 2: But base these are This isn't like an online initiative

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or an app initiative. This is a physical presence. Sign

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up and go go to the golf the academy itself.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you know, So basically.

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Speaker 2: That's a good brand to put the name on. That'll

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get a lot of interest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, so basically, our our MTT Performance Academy here in

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Pebble Beach is a Golf Channel academy, So it is

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a brand within a brand concept. The Golf Channel is

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going to help us with marketing and distribution. We have

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a territory right now which hits most of northern California,

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so people that are in our region are going to

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start learning more about MTT at Poppy Hills, learning more

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about our staff, and we're going to have the interest

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in support of the Golf Channel to be able to

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create a product that's honestly better than we could do

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with our own resources. You know, it takes it takes

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a lot to do something really special, and the Golf

293
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Channel wants to do something special, so they're trying to help,

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you know, good coaches and great locations elevate their game,

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so to speak, with the Golf Channel and NBC style resourcing.

296
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So it's a pretty bold move. There's a gentleman named

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Todd Wilson who's the CEO of Golf Channel Academy, and his.

298
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Speaker 1: Sort of history and business comes from NASCAR.

299
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Speaker 4: He's actually the CFO of NASCAR and operates within a brand,

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within a brand strategy where franchises have territories throughout North America.

301
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So basically we're doing the same thing with golf instruction here.

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So the great thing is is that, you know, what

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we're doing is just going to keep getting better. You'll

304
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start seeing me more involved with Golf Channel programming. I've

305
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already done a bunch of videos that have already appeared

306
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on shows like Less and Team Live.

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Speaker 1: Might have an.

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Speaker 4: Opportunity here soon, hopefully to host one of those programs.

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The Golf Channels launching a new digital magazine this spring

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as well, and I was lucky enough to get the

311
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cover of that first digital issue.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: It helps to be handsome, I.

314
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Speaker 1: Tell you what I mean.

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Speaker 4: I've really been so fortunate to just get a great

316
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response from dies in Golf Channel, and you know, it's

317
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kind of like the whole you know, twenty year overnight

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success for it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I remember my sure, you know, you know,

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none of this would have happened if you didn't meet Kate.

321
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Speaker 1: She will definitely tell you that. For sure.

322
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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you that too.

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Speaker 1: Every idea that I think is mine obviously comes from her.

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You know.

325
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Speaker 4: My first article in Golf Diedist was April of twenty fourteen,

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and no, excuse me, April two thousand.

327
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, April and April of.

328
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Speaker 4: Two thousand was my first Artiflin Golf Dinist. And it

329
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was just a little one pager. It was at the

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back of the magazine, you know.

331
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Speaker 2: But what was it about.

332
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Speaker 1: It was a pitching story.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I knew you would remember. You always remember

334
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your first Yeah it was it.

335
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Speaker 4: Was a picture, Yeah, absolutely, it was a picture.

336
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Speaker 1: It was a pitching story.

337
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Speaker 4: And it was just all about, you know, being able

338
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to better control distance and rhythm and get some predictable

339
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length out of your shots inside of one hundred yards.

340
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But you know, I had worked as a coach for

341
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the Golf Digest schools.

342
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Speaker 1: About two years prior.

343
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Speaker 4: And the thing is is that you know, when you

344
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work for the Golf Digest schools, it doesn't mean at

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all that you're going to get in Golf Digest magazine.

346
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That's just not how they how they do it right.

347
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So you could work for the Golf Digist schools forever

348
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and never get in the magazine. But I really wanted

349
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to do that. So I had written like forty story

350
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you know, ideas down, you know, with a short paragraph

351
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sentence or two on what the story was about. And

352
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I sent them to GoF Digest and I didn't hear

353
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anything back. And then I called and I didn't hear back.

354
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And then I said, Hey, I'm gonna come up and

355
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visit you guys, you know, knock on the door and

356
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you know, poke around a little bit. So I went

357
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up there and really, just through you know, persistence, I

358
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got them to cave and pick one and that story

359
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went in. And of course, you know when you get

360
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your first magazine story, you go out to like, you know,

361
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the grocery store, and then you show up with no grocery,

362
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you know, the checkout line and you got like twenty magazines,

363
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you know, and the lady behind the checkout counter is like, oh,

364
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you know.

365
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 1: Would you happen to be in this magazine?

366
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Speaker 4: And you're like, oh yeah, maybe, uh I think so possibly.

367
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Then you like flip to the back and You're like,

368
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,920
there it is, but I'm but anyway, that was that

369
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was how the whole thing, the whole thing started, and

370
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you know, I just kind of realized that, you know,

371
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you got to you gotta be persistent, and just because

372
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someone says no, it doesn't mean that it's not good

373
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or valuable. So I never got discouraged when I sent

374
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something out and nothing came back. I just did it

375
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because I loved it, and I kept on spreading it

376
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around and making relationships. So it's really just kind of

377
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,799
cool to, you know, talk about this with you and

378
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:43,319
think back to the first story and then you know,

379
00:17:43,319 --> 00:17:45,599
back then, if you would have told me that, you know,

380
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,000
later in my career, I'd be spending you know, fifty

381
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consecutive weeks on golf Digest dot com and be doing

382
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,599
series with success that we did, and then have these

383
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:56,440
other opportunities and then you know, moving to go you know,

384
00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:59,759
the Golf Channel and NBC. I mean, you know, I'm

385
00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:02,039
a lucky guy and it's just so fun to be

386
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,799
able to get up every day and do stuff like this.

387
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,759
I mean right now, I mean, I'm working, I'm talking

388
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:10,640
to Fred Green, you know, and I love it. You know,

389
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,000
so I'm happy to be here, and you know, hopefully

390
00:18:13,079 --> 00:18:16,279
we can give some awesome stuff to your listeners today

391
00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:18,640
and get him excited about you know everything.

392
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's you know, it's one thing to you know,

393
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:25,119
spend all that time, and you said you're lucky, and

394
00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:29,119
there's no question there's luck involved with this, but you

395
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,559
you know, it's the ten thousand hours thing too. You've

396
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:34,839
worked very, very hard at it, and I'm sure that

397
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,079
you're the envy of many golf instructors, but you have

398
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,279
this innate sense of how to make it work. And

399
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,519
a lot of people are just you know, they're golf

400
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,039
instructors and because they were good at golf when they

401
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:48,799
were a kid, but they don't have the business sense

402
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,960
or the marketing sense that you have. So congratulations again.

403
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,079
I can't be more excited for you.

404
00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was talking to one of my clients.

405
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 4: One of my clients is a gentleman who works for

406
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,279
for Apple Computer and we I just had this amazing day,

407
00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:08,440
Fred I got to tour Apple.

408
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: Can you believe that I got to go up there?

409
00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 2: Come on, you're not even a geek, You're just a

410
00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:15,680
golf I just golf.

411
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:21,640
Speaker 4: But I've been a stockholders, but I got to tour Apple.

412
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,160
You know, this this gentleman I have been friends for

413
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,559
a few years and he just he's just the kind

414
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:28,839
of guy that you know, some people are the early adopters.

415
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,720
You know, they they drink the kool aid. They get

416
00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:34,920
exactly who you are and what you kind of stand

417
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,640
for and what you're going for the moment that you

418
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:37,759
know you start talking to him.

419
00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: You know.

420
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 4: So he's all about everything that we do with our

421
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,160
with our brand here, and you know, we were having lunch,

422
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:48,279
and you know, he understands that it's it's a challenge

423
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:52,200
to be in this kind of a kind of a business.

424
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,200
It's a challenge to grow and to evolve and to

425
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,119
develop and adapt. And you know we started, you know,

426
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,480
talking about the app put in and all the things

427
00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:03,759
that I've done, and I've I've driven my car cross

428
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:07,319
country fifteen times, Fred, you know, moving from you know,

429
00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:10,559
Arizona to Palm Springs and then up to northern California

430
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:12,359
and then going out to New Jersey and then working

431
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,559
on Long Island, then back out to California. I mean,

432
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:16,400
it's just back and forth and back and forth. And

433
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,599
you know the thing is is that sometimes, you know,

434
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,519
when you're when you're young, and I still think I'm young.

435
00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:24,519
Speaker 1: I'm turning forty three.

436
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 4: Uh you are forty three, but well, you know what

437
00:20:28,039 --> 00:20:29,960
I mean, when you're when you're when you're really young,

438
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,759
and when you get out of college, you're like, hey,

439
00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:32,920
this is the way life.

440
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 1: Is going to be. You know, I'm gonna maybe I'm

441
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,519
gonna make a bunch of money. I'm gonna live here,

442
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,359
you know. And the thing is that, you know, life

443
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,799
is is a lot more.

444
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 4: Uh more challenging, and sometimes things don't happen the way

445
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,960
you think they would, and you know the way that

446
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,960
I thought it would happen. Honestly, when I got that

447
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,079
first article in Golf Digest, I thought that, well, you know,

448
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,680
Jim Flick was in Golf Digest and he was a

449
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,799
hero of mine, and Peter Costas was in Golf Died.

450
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,599
I just figured that if you were in Golf Digest,

451
00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:01,920
then you were going to be the director of construction

452
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:04,519
at the world's greatest resort, and you were going to

453
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,559
charge X for a lesson and you would be jam.

454
00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: Packed for months in advance, and hey, the world's your oyster.

455
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 4: You're hitting golf balls and you're you're making people happy,

456
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,559
and you know, the business changed a little bit and

457
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,480
all of a sudden just because I had one story

458
00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:21,759
cuff digest that didn't that didn't that didn't happen. You know,

459
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:24,279
So you work and you push, and you know, it's

460
00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:26,720
all about trying to find this this tipping point, right.

461
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:28,599
You know, it's like this bucket of beans, and it's

462
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:30,799
like I'm going to try and get this bucket of

463
00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:33,119
beans to grow one bean at a time. Then hopefully

464
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,720
one day it's just going to fall over and then

465
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,920
I'm going to have this you know, this career that

466
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,480
you know I've created in my in my head, and

467
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:43,720
you know, obviously it's a it's a challenge, right. So anyway,

468
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:45,839
so this gentleman said to me, said, you know, so

469
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:49,640
why do you continue pushing the way you push? Why

470
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,319
do you continue trying to be creative and innovative? And

471
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,279
you know, why are you trying to build this thing

472
00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:02,119
which is so big and so robust when maybe some

473
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,279
of your counterparts are are content, you know, just putting

474
00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:07,319
teas in the ground and you know, teaching one person

475
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,759
at a time and whatnot. And I said, you know

476
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:13,319
what I said, I realized not too long ago that

477
00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:17,200
I am a lucky person. And I realized that, you know,

478
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,039
depending on you know, how six desciful things are from

479
00:22:24,079 --> 00:22:26,880
day to day. I firmly believe that, you know, worst

480
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,240
case scenario, will always be able to pay for my rent. Right,

481
00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:32,960
so I'm not going to be homeless, right might not

482
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:33,960
live in the house I'm gonna.

483
00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: Live in, but I'm not gonna be homeless.

484
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,319
Speaker 4: And I always also believe that, you know, I've got

485
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:41,119
friends in my life that I think will will always

486
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,759
support me no matter what. And I'm lucky to be

487
00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:47,359
married to a woman who takes care of me and

488
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,039
cares for me deally. So if I have all those

489
00:22:50,079 --> 00:22:54,559
things right, then I really had everything that anyone would need.

490
00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:57,720
And if that's the case, then why in the world

491
00:22:57,759 --> 00:23:00,119
would I get up in the morning and not try

492
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,559
for anything less than exactly what it is that I.

493
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,519
Speaker 1: Want, you know, out of my life in my career,

494
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:05,960
you know.

495
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:09,759
Speaker 4: So it's all about just you know, being authentic and

496
00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:11,920
going big and knowing that, you know, I got so

497
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,880
many hours in a day like the next guy does,

498
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,799
but you know, why not just spend those hours kind

499
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,279
of going for it, you know, as opposed to doing

500
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:24,039
something something less, you know. So that that was my answer,

501
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,480
and I think that's the thing that keeps me thinking

502
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:31,160
big and you know, trying to be bold and trying

503
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,559
to create some things that are exciting.

504
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 2: When people like you are growing up and you're loving

505
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,640
golf and doing this thing, their their vision of doing

506
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:52,359
something great is on the tour. It doesn't sound like

507
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,680
that was your thought ever. It sounds like the teaching

508
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,920
part was always where you were headed. Well, or I

509
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,839
may be misreading this, No, I mean it was.

510
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:05,599
Speaker 4: Sort of by default. I mean I grew up idolizing

511
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,000
Jack Nicholas. You know, Jack was my hair. I remember

512
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,519
watching him win the eighty six Masters, and its just

513
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,160
beside myself with excitement, you know.

514
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,519
Speaker 1: And then I would go out to the practice Punny Green.

515
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 4: My dad was a club pro, so I was on

516
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,519
the golf course every single day, loving and chipping and

517
00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:23,720
pitching and playing golf. And you know, Jim Furick was

518
00:24:24,039 --> 00:24:26,279
a junior member at our club and on my high

519
00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:28,319
school golf team. In fact, I just reconnected with him

520
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:29,960
down here at the at and T for the first

521
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,960
time in a long time. But I mean, yeah, I mean,

522
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,119
you want to you want to be a tour pro.

523
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:38,599
But the thing is is that you know, when you're

524
00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:41,000
in high school and you're hitting balls next to Jim

525
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,039
Furick and and he is who he is and you

526
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,160
are who you are, and it's just not quite lining up.

527
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he wasn't the way he was in high

528
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,519
school the way he is in high school, and you

529
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:54,200
had to be standing there going how are you able

530
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,240
to get the ball where it goes with that swing?

531
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 4: Well, it wasn't so much that, it was just I

532
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,759
mean he was playing. He was playing in you know

533
00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:03,599
these A J G A tournaments, you know, so he

534
00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:05,400
was like a little mini tour pro.

535
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you know where I grew up. I grew

536
00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:08,039
up in a small town.

537
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 4: I grew up in Amish Country, Pennsylvania, right and in Lancaster, PA.

538
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,920
You know, if you're going to play in a golf tournament,

539
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,440
you know, you and your friends, you know, get in

540
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,839
a car or someone who you know who's old enough

541
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:21,559
to drive, they pick you up and you drive an

542
00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:26,119
hour at most, and then you play a municipal course

543
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,000
and you know, after you're done, you know, you get

544
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,359
yourself a sandwich, you know, and a drink, and then

545
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:32,759
you get the car and you go back home and

546
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:34,680
mom and dad say, hey, how'd you play? And You're like,

547
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,640
I shot whatever.

548
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: You know.

549
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 4: Jim Furick was was going to the airport and getting

550
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,200
on airplanes and flying to places like Sea Island and

551
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,359
Sawgrass and you know, playing in these these tournaments which

552
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,359
were like like tour events, you know, and he was

553
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,039
winning them.

554
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: And I remember, so.

555
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: That put a perspective on the whole thing for you

556
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,440
of I'm not in that league.

557
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,319
Speaker 4: It was just it was just a whole different, different thing.

558
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,839
And he was, you know, I was a little bit undersized,

559
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,160
you know, growing up. I mean some people would say

560
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,759
I'm undersized now, but I mean but when I was

561
00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:07,440
in high school.

562
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Fred, when I when I when.

563
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 4: I turned sixteen, Fred, I couldn't see over the steering

564
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,359
wheel of the car that my parents bought me, you know,

565
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:16,400
for my sixteenth birthday.

566
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,759
Speaker 1: They bought me in nineteen eighty.

567
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:21,599
Speaker 4: Four, subrew gl which is no you know, uh, you know,

568
00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:24,039
pickup truck, you know, suv monster.

569
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: No, it's no deep dish pizza, no, yes, exactly.

570
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: Right, you know.

571
00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 4: And I had my license, Fred, I had my license

572
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,640
for thirty minutes and I and I wrecked my car,

573
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,720
well all four tires, and I ripped off the bunker,

574
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,039
the bumper.

575
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:41,279
Speaker 1: Rather the bunker, I mean.

576
00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: So, I mean, I had, you know, some some challenges

577
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,640
where you know, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm

578
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,480
never going to grow and you know, parents taking you

579
00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:51,920
the doctor and the chronologist, and he's like, he's going

580
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:52,200
to grow.

581
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: I don't worry about it.

582
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,079
Speaker 4: But anyway, so I had this Jim Furrit character who

583
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,000
was full grown, you know, winning tournaments nationally, you know,

584
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:07,680
hitting the ball, shaving shaving, you know, I guess, you know.

585
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,279
Speaker 1: The the gap just looked really, really wide.

586
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: And you know, I'd struggled with my game a little

587
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,920
bit at the end of high school, and but I

588
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,720
was at the same time, I had such a strong

589
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:21,720
desire to play great and and that's when you start

590
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:25,920
reading books and watching videos and asking your parents.

591
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:28,519
Speaker 1: For for more golf lessons. My dad was a pro.

592
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, but you.

593
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,599
Speaker 4: Know, we used to you know, get in the car

594
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,160
and drive to you know, the best coach in town.

595
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,799
And sometimes we would get on an ever plane and

596
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:38,759
we would travel out to a place like Scottsdale, and

597
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,160
I would be lucky enough to have Dad buy me

598
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,200
a lesson from someone like.

599
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: A Jim Flick, you know.

600
00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:45,839
Speaker 4: So, I mean, you know, I always had this strong

601
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,599
desire to play well. And you know that's where I

602
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:52,880
think you start reading about the how associated with the what.

603
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,359
You know, most most people, like you know, Jim Feerick

604
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,279
was always kind of able to make a move that

605
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:00,720
gave him what what he wan it. I'm not saying

606
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,119
he didn't practice hard, but you know, some people just

607
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,440
have that natural sequence of motion that lets him hammer it.

608
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,759
I mean, you know the Ben Hogan's and the Lee Trevino's.

609
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,519
I mean you know they didn't start off, you know,

610
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,680
hitting at like thirty handicappers. You know, there was something

611
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,759
about them, you know, just like a kid can sometimes

612
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:22,519
step up and hit a home run in baseball. I mean,

613
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,559
they understood how to put the club head on the

614
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:28,160
ball to create a certain feel and sound and you know, kablamb,

615
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,720
you know what I mean. And they hone that over time.

616
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,920
But you know, for me, you know, it was kind

617
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,640
of hit and miss. It was elusive. You know, I

618
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,319
developed an attitude that you know, if I wasn't going

619
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:41,000
to be a great striker of the ball, then maybe

620
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,880
I'll be a great putter and have a great bunker

621
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,480
game and pitching game and have a good attitude. And

622
00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:48,160
you know, I had to develop my ball striking skill

623
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:52,440
over time. And I've always been a good player, and

624
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,799
I think that most golfers would look at my ball

625
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:55,759
striking and say.

626
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:57,039
Speaker 1: Hey, it's pretty dark good.

627
00:28:57,359 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: But there's a difference between the way Fred Couples hits

628
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,279
it and the way Bubba Watson hits it, you know,

629
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:03,920
and then the way that I hit it in high school.

630
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

631
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,759
Speaker 4: There's just a difference, right, so you start searching for

632
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:12,240
you know, hey, how do you do that? You know,

633
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:15,000
what do I need to change to be like that?

634
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,599
And I think that's for me where the spark came

635
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,440
in coaching is being able to take in some knowledge

636
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,559
to apply it, to learn to make a difference not

637
00:29:24,599 --> 00:29:26,880
only for myself, but to make a difference for the

638
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:27,640
people at the club.

639
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: I gave my first lesson when I was sixteen. Wow,

640
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,720
just you know, you plague off.

641
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:33,599
Speaker 4: With the members, you know, and you're better than they are,

642
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,200
and they say, oh, hey, can you help me with this?

643
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:38,400
And I just kind of, you know, made it a

644
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:41,880
challenge to deliver a result. So I would say that

645
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,039
my attitude towards the game splintered into more of a

646
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,079
coaching path versus a playing path at a very very

647
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:54,759
young age. And there was a multitude factors associated with that.

648
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,839
But one was, you know, struggling with my own game.

649
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,000
One was being a little bit undersized and falling behind

650
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,319
the curve, and then the other was hitting balls next to

651
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,240
a guy like Jim Ferrick every day and just seeing

652
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,759
someone that was clearly better than you were.

653
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: Your history, what you're doing, your initiative all absolutely fascinating

654
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,640
to me, and I'm so glad we got the update.

655
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:20,759
But to what you said just a moment ago, well, hey,

656
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,920
can you help me with this. Can we talk a

657
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,240
little bit about putting absolutely good enough? So we all

658
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:31,720
know hopefully we all know distance and direction right? The

659
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,960
most important part of that is distance. Most people think

660
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,319
the beginners. I love talking to people who are just

661
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:39,480
starting to play golf and you asked them the question

662
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:42,559
distance and direction, and they oh, direction, you got it right.

663
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,880
And then but yeah, you put it seventeen feet past

664
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,640
the hole, but right, versus putting it twelve inches outside

665
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,559
the hole. But it's whole high. Right, So I'm assuming

666
00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:55,359
this is correct distance and direction.

667
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,799
Speaker 1: Ye distance direction, and then green reading would be the.

668
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,759
Speaker 2: Think through and green reading. Okay, so let's I want

669
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,920
to pick those apart from it. I my game's gotten better,

670
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:15,119
my putting's gotten worse, and so and sometimes it's distance

671
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,119
and sometimes it's direction. I feel like I'm a decent

672
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:24,319
green reader that I'm pretty good with. I mean, people

673
00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:26,839
are like, wow, that was a good read. But it's

674
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,680
either coming up short or it's going just your dude,

675
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,680
just to the right or the left. It's nothing, you know,

676
00:31:33,759 --> 00:31:36,720
it's not consistent right or left. It's if it was,

677
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:40,440
that would help, but it's not. Let's talk about this

678
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,359
the distance part. I need some distance drills.

679
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean distance with any shot. I mean,

680
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,400
it really comes down to number one, the quality of

681
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:53,039
your contact.

682
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,279
Speaker 1: Right.

683
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 4: So I mean, if you're hitting the ball all over

684
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:57,920
the potter face, you're not going to have any predictability

685
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,119
in your distance. And then from there it comes from

686
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:05,759
I would say at the start understanding that the correlation

687
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,480
correlation between swing size and rhythm associated with getting the

688
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,039
ball to roll in particular distance.

689
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: You know.

690
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:14,759
Speaker 1: So for example, I.

691
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,599
Speaker 4: Had a junior golfer out here the other day and

692
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,119
his distance control was all over the place, you know,

693
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,759
So we used to start kind of going back to basics, saying,

694
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:25,640
you know, and putting. We're trying to create a stroke.

695
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,599
A way to imagine a stroke is to imagine a

696
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,920
pendulum on a Grandfather clock. And one of the things

697
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,119
about a pendulum is that it swings back and through

698
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:37,400
an even amount on both sides. So I just go

699
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,720
ahead and I hold the putter between my fingers and

700
00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:42,640
I get it swinging back and forth right. And as

701
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,079
it's swinging back and forth, you know, I'll start creating

702
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,279
a cadence. Sometimes I'll say one to two, sometimes I'll

703
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:50,920
say TikTok. Other times I'll say it back through. And

704
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,079
I'm trying to get this student, you know, whether it's

705
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:56,440
a junior golfer or someone who is advanced in years

706
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,799
and has played the game for a long time, to

707
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,839
kind of get reconnected with a pendulum swing.

708
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: And a pendulum rhythm.

709
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:06,079
Speaker 4: And then what I'll do is I'll keep on making

710
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:09,160
those audible sounds one to TikTok, back through, but I'll

711
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,799
start to shift the size the pendulum is swinging, you know.

712
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:15,960
So I'll go one, two, and I'll make the putter

713
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,400
swing within a small arc, and then I'll go TikTok,

714
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,880
and I'll make it swing in a bigger arc, and

715
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,079
I'll say it back through, and I'll make it swing

716
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:24,720
on a bigger arc yet. And the thing I'm trying

717
00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:28,680
to get across is that, regardless of swing size, the

718
00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:30,440
rhythm is the constant.

719
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: It's always the same.

720
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:32,559
Speaker 2: Right.

721
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,079
Speaker 4: So once we can do that, you know, we'll just

722
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:38,000
try and make some strokes where you know, I'll have

723
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:41,799
the student put a ball any distance they want. I'll see,

724
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,440
go ahead and put it about about ten feet, it

725
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,799
doesn't really matter. They put it ten feet, and i

726
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:50,039
want them to feel a stroke that's in rhythm, you know. One, two,

727
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,519
hold the finish, see how far the ball goes. And

728
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,119
then I'll say, okay, now let's go ahead and put

729
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,640
the next ball one putter length longer than the first ball.

730
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,680
So the only thing to change is the size. But

731
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,839
we're going to try and feel that same beat, that

732
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,480
same rhythm. So we'll try and create these little rungs

733
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:09,239
of the ladder that start close and then go farther away.

734
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,199
And then once we do that, we might put a

735
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,559
ball a longer distance and then work the ladder back

736
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:16,119
towards us. But it's all about just trying to get

737
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:22,119
sort of tuned into what is going to produce distance aa,

738
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,079
b C, so.

739
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: On and so forth.

740
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,559
Speaker 4: From there, what we might do is you have them

741
00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:31,480
grab their phone and go ahead and find a free

742
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,760
electronic metronome app.

743
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:36,159
Speaker 1: Right, there's a ton of them out there, right, So

744
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:37,000
you find an app.

745
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,599
Speaker 4: And then what we might do is we might go

746
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,280
ahead and start at a very low beats per minute,

747
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:45,079
like fifty beats a minute, right, so at a pace

748
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:47,039
that you would never put at. So you turn on

749
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:49,639
this metronome and you start hearing this beat just like

750
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,679
you would if you were playing a piano or in

751
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,199
a guitar lesson with someone right now. Obviously, musicians they

752
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,159
have to play to a beat in a rhythm, and

753
00:34:57,159 --> 00:34:59,840
that's what makes a band sound enjoyable to listen to

754
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:02,960
versus like a big train wreck. And what we'll have

755
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:06,119
them do is start to hear this metronome beat, and

756
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:08,119
then we'll start to try and roll putts where they

757
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:11,239
match the backswing and follow through to the beat of

758
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,280
the metronome. And the reason I like to start at

759
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,880
a very very slow pace is number one so that

760
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,800
they can match the beat easily, but also so that

761
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,719
they can start to feel what it's like to be

762
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,800
held back, you know what I mean, to be at

763
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,320
an uncomfortably lethargic pace.

764
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: From there, what.

765
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: We'll do is we'll take that metronome and we'll zip

766
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,480
it up to a ridiculously high number, something well over

767
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:33,559
one hundred beats permitted.

768
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:35,119
Speaker 1: And now it's going, you know.

769
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:39,039
Speaker 4: Tick, And now they have to match the beat of

770
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:41,679
something that's really really fast, and of course they feel

771
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:46,559
like they're being pulled forward to an uncomfortable degree. And

772
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,000
once they can do that, then we try and find

773
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:53,159
a rhythm that's really comfortable for them, somewhere between.

774
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: The slow in the fast. Let's say around you know,

775
00:35:56,639 --> 00:35:59,079
seventy nine eighty beats a minute. Everyone's different, you know,

776
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,480
if you look at golfers and their golf swings, if

777
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:05,039
you think about a slow rhythm like a Larry Mize,

778
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,039
you know, versus a fast rhythm like a Nick Price.

779
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:09,159
Speaker 4: I mean, everyone in their lives, they move and they

780
00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:11,920
talk and they act at different speeds. So the rhythm

781
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,679
that's going to be perfect for you is something that's

782
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,039
totally unique. But once you find that rhythm where you're like, hey,

783
00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:19,559
this feels good. Now, all of a sudden, I'll have

784
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:23,840
them putt right around the green to the beat of

785
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,679
a metronome. And just like a musician would play guitar

786
00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:30,159
or play piano or play the drums to the beat

787
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:32,159
of a metronome as well. So now they get really

788
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:35,400
tuned into the fact that there's a size to a stroke,

789
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,000
which should be relatively even, but there's definitely a rhythm

790
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,079
that's unique to them that needs to be the constant

791
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:46,559
or the glue between the short, the medium, and the

792
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:47,840
long strokes.

793
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,079
Speaker 2: Does that rhythm going very slow to very fast? Does

794
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:02,480
that also dictate how far the ball is going to go?

795
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:06,719
I mean, like, if you're going really slowly fifty beats,

796
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,519
is the ball going to generally you're going to hit

797
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:11,639
that harder, it's going to go farther, and then with

798
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:13,719
a with a quick rhythm, it's going to be a

799
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,800
shorter putt. Or are you always trying to find your

800
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,599
rhythm for the distance.

801
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 4: Well, your rhythm is going to be constant whether it's

802
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,000
short meter or long, right, So that's that's yeah, that's

803
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,239
the idea. But the thing is that when you change

804
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,559
the size of the swing within that rhythm. Obviously the

805
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,840
overall speed is different, right, but.

806
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,599
Speaker 2: Staying at your staying at your comfort zone rhythm.

807
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: Exactly, So obviously good.

808
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 4: If you're making a bigger stroke, right, the stroke's going

809
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,599
to have to move faster to fit within that same beat.

810
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: Right. So obviously it's going to have an effect on distance.

811
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 4: But you know, most people when they're out there for it,

812
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,440
it's just that they're not really working on anything, and

813
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,719
that's and that's the problem.

814
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: Right.

815
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 4: So with putting, you know, when people come out and

816
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,599
they say, you know what's most important, I say, well,

817
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:01,440
it's got to be this, because, as you pointed out,

818
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:04,840
you know, you can miss it a few inches right

819
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,880
or left, but then you can also miss it, you know,

820
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,320
a number of feet short or long. And I found

821
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,920
that even the worst aimers in the world, you know,

822
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,000
if I show them where the hole is and I say,

823
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,119
go ahead and roll me a putt, they don't put

824
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:20,719
it ninety degrees to the left. You know, they kind

825
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,159
of aim in the vicinity. They might not read the green,

826
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,239
but they're pointing in the general direction of the hole.

827
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,519
But that's the same person I've seen them put it

828
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,559
fifteen feet past right, So the error of fifteen feet

829
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,480
is a lot more to their detriment than you know,

830
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:38,440
even a foot or two right or left.

831
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: So if you have good pace.

832
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 4: And even reasonable aim, then you're going to be in

833
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,440
a good position to you know, have a short second

834
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,199
putt and all of a sudden you have a lot

835
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:52,119
of two putts, you eliminate three putts and you start,

836
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:56,280
you know, shaving those those strokes. The next thing that

837
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,920
I teach after distance is is how to read a green,

838
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:02,880
because if you don't know how to read a green,

839
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,440
it doesn't do you any good to be able to

840
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,920
start the ball on a straight line with proper path

841
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,480
in face relationships, you know. So the third thing I

842
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:17,920
actually teaches is direction ohe green?

843
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,519
Speaker 2: Oh so green and green reading is second for you.

844
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you think about it, you know, Dave.

845
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 4: Pel's who was my first boss, and I did a

846
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,599
lot of research and basically said the average golfer underreads

847
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:33,719
putts by up to seventy five per So, you know,

848
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,039
imagine if you were in a a cold weather climate.

849
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:40,719
Let's say you live in Green Bay, Wisconsin, right, and

850
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,360
you love golf, So every day you you set up

851
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,000
in front of your TV and you say, I make

852
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:49,599
a hundred perfect strokes in my putting track, right, And

853
00:39:49,639 --> 00:39:51,880
the putting track is designed to give you a reasonable

854
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,760
path and face that would move the ball on your

855
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,280
intended line. And let's say you do that for for

856
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,320
six straight months, so you hone this perfect stroke. Opening day,

857
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,840
you go out to your home course and on the

858
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,920
very first put you underread the putt by seventy five percent.

859
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,719
The only way you can possibly make that putt is

860
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,239
if you take your perfect stroke and you alter it

861
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,159
to push the ball or pull the ball to a

862
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,559
higher line by path or face manipulation. So basically, if

863
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:25,320
you can't read a green, there's no point in even

864
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,880
trying to create a reasonable.

865
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,119
Speaker 1: Path and face because it's just gonna be a big

866
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:29,719
waste of time.

867
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: Now, if Fred you can find the proper line through

868
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,639
understanding how to read a green, and then you can

869
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,480
roll the ball at a desired pace, Now, starting the

870
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,840
ball on that line becomes the most important thing, and

871
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,320
that's where spending some time training path and face in

872
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,920
starting line would be really, really helpful. But I think

873
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,880
that when people learn how to put they're always trying

874
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,800
to create this perfect looking stroke, when in reality, it

875
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,480
all starts with creating a smooth with roll and then

876
00:41:01,679 --> 00:41:04,639
being able to judge slope in a reasonable way so

877
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:06,519
you know where to start the ball, and then from

878
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:09,920
there start honing those little nuances and path and face

879
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,159
to close the deal.

880
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:19,199
Speaker 2: Fabulous, awesome, thank you, thank you. It really helps. I'm

881
00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:20,719
going to get off the phone with you because I

882
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,400
want to go start working on it right. Well, and

883
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,639
that's you know, that's and that's just my opinion, right, No,

884
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:28,039
that's okay, I trust your opinion, but.

885
00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: That's you know, I used to spend a lot of time.

886
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 4: Working on my path and my face, right, And the

887
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,119
more I focused on those things, the less putts I made.

888
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:50,679
Because I wasn't connected with putting a smooth, beautiful turf

889
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,000
hugging role.

890
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: On my golf ball. I wasn't connected with.

891
00:41:56,079 --> 00:42:03,079
Speaker 4: The challenge associated with solving the problem of judging slope

892
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,079
and grain and all these things that make you know, uh,

893
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,400
golf golf fun. You know, all I was focused on was,

894
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,519
you know, what does my swing path look like?

895
00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: What does my putter face look like?

896
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,599
Speaker 4: And I was standing in these little devices all the

897
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:17,679
day along, just going back and forth and back and forth,

898
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,599
and I would go out and I would hit the

899
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:22,559
worst looking putt you've ever you've ever seen, you know,

900
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,119
and that became really frustrating.

901
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,679
Speaker 1: So, you know, the way that I teach putting.

902
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 4: Was really born a lot from my own frustration and

903
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:35,519
putting and understanding that you know, all great putters they

904
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,599
roll the ball nicely. The ball doesn't hop up in

905
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:40,760
the air, it doesn't skid, it doesn't do all these

906
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:41,679
weird things, you know.

907
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: My balls.

908
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 4: You know, I was spending all this time working on

909
00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:48,239
my stroke, you know, directional mechanics, and then I would

910
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,639
put these balls, you know, and they would roll towards

911
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,320
the hole like like a like a drunk lumbering down

912
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,920
Main Street, and like in that ball wants to go

913
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,920
anywhere but the hole. And it wasn't until I start

914
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:05,280
to soften my hands on the grip and become less

915
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,480
rigid with my mechanics and start to feel some rhythm

916
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:11,920
and some flow that my ball started to behave the

917
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,840
way that I wanted it to behave. You know, I

918
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,639
was also a big fan of Ben Crenshawn. Have you

919
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:18,559
ever seen Ben Crenshaw roll a ball in person?

920
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: I mean it.

921
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:24,199
Speaker 4: It is a work of art. You know what he

922
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,119
does just rolling a ball ten feet across the grass,

923
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,880
you know, And my ball wasn't doing that, you know.

924
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,800
So it wasn't until I started focusing on rhythm and

925
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,079
roll and just trying to make the ball behave in

926
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:42,679
a more beautiful way that I started to make putts

927
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,400
and get back into the joy of putting. And yeah,

928
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,679
I've worked on path and face since, but it's never

929
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,920
been my number one priority as it relates to making putts.

930
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: Are enjoying putting?

931
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,599
Speaker 4: Now people have really bad path and face mechanics and

932
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:58,440
they can't start the ball anywhere near their intended line

933
00:43:58,519 --> 00:43:59,480
and do the need.

934
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: To work on it?

935
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 4: Of course you do, right, But for me that's number three.

936
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:06,760
In the years past, it used to be number one,

937
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,519
and I gotten.

938
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 2: Away from that fabulous. Well, you gave us the name

939
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,320
of the show today too, the Joy of putting.

940
00:44:13,159 --> 00:44:13,679
Speaker 1: I love it.

941
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Listen. You mentioned that

942
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,239
your first published article was a piece on chipping. Was

943
00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:21,400
how about sharing the tip from the article?

944
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: Well, it was all about so.

945
00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 4: One of the things I learned when I worked for

946
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,679
Dave Peal's was that it's one game made up of

947
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,119
many games, right. And the thing is is that in golf,

948
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:34,800
I mean, there's a lot of different attitudes that you

949
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,280
have for different shots. And Dave would always say that

950
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,800
you have a power game, which is basically how hard

951
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,639
and how far can you hit the ball, and then

952
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:43,880
you had a finesse game, which was hitting a short soft,

953
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,760
and you had a putting game, and then you had

954
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,079
a mental game. So all these games together, if you

955
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,559
were fairly proficient, would lead up to having one great

956
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:55,639
round of golf possibly. And thinking about the finesse game

957
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,679
is that the finesse game has different from the power

958
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,239
game and the putting game. And the biggest difference that

959
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:06,079
we talked about in the story was the dissociation between

960
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:08,800
your hips and your shoulders that you would normally have

961
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:12,679
in the wind up and strike for power based golf shot.

962
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,440
So basically, when you turn your shoulders back right and

963
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,360
then you'll let your hips wind up in a power shot,

964
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,119
there's a difference between those two, right, and then as

965
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:24,519
you transition from the backswing into the downswing and that

966
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:29,440
gap increases, you generate a little bit more ability to

967
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,440
create a massive swat into the back of the golf ball, right.

968
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,920
So being that in a finesse shot, it's more of

969
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,000
a rhythm may swing.

970
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: We tried to eliminate.

971
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 4: Some of this disassociation as a means of taking away

972
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,360
some of that explosive power. So basically, the tip that

973
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,000
I rode for Golf Died just back in April of

974
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,440
two thousand was a direct ripoff from my time at

975
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:53,719
the day of Pallas Short Game School.

976
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: So Dave, if you're listening to this, you get full

977
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,239
credit for this and a lot of other stuff that

978
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:57,760
I've written.

979
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,559
Speaker 4: But anyway, basically about when you turn back and then

980
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:04,400
you turn through, we're trying to keep the upper and

981
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,760
lower halves your body moving more in unison. Right, So

982
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:10,400
as I turned my chest away from the target, I

983
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,719
want my belt buckle to turn away reasonably to a

984
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,360
similar degree. And as I was turning into impacting the

985
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,480
fall through, I was trying to feel like those two

986
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,079
parts of my body were staying more together. And that's

987
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:23,440
what Dave used to call a finesse turn. So basically,

988
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:29,400
like putting is stroke size and rhythm, with pitching, we

989
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,000
would try and make it swing size, rhythm, and then

990
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,199
of course club selection, we would try and eliminate the

991
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:40,960
component of trying to disassociate the shoulders from the hips

992
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,599
to create that powerful X Factor style wind up in

993
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,800
delivery that you might have with a big driver. A

994
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:58,280
powerful shop in the fairway