WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.799 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Try 2 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:06.799 out Scarecrow's rent by mail service. Choose from over one 3 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.800 hundred and fifty thousand films and get Blu rays, four 4 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:13.759 k's and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow 5 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:14.919 dot com today. 6 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:21.120 Oh ge is. 7 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:23.120 Folks, it's showtime. 8 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.760 People say good money to see this movie. 9 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:28.719 When they go out to a theater. They want clothed sodas, 10 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.880 hot popcorn in. No monsters in the Projection Booth. Everyone 11 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:34.359 for tend podcasting isn't boring. 12 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:53.240 Put it off. 13 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.239 Two men on opposite sides of the law, Ryan O'Neill, 14 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:13.840 Bruce Dern, and between them Isabella Johnny m Three loaners 15 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:17.040 playing a ruthless game. None of them could afford to lose. 16 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:28.760 In the Driver, Ryan O'Neill is the driver. My line 17 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:30.959 of work is kind of hard to come by. His 18 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:36.319 reputation the best meal man in the city. Memory is 19 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.200 not too good about law not Yeah, you can do 20 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.640 better than that. I don't have to. Did you ever 21 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:43.120 get caught on one. 22 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:43.599 Of your jobs? 23 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:51.359 Hasn't happened yet. Bruce Dern is the detective. I'm very 24 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.680 good at what I do. His reputation the toughest cop 25 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:55.959 in the city, and. 26 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.359 He saw the man who's driving the car. Yeah, you 27 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.359 didn't identify him. I just don't like you. 28 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.159 Now you get out of my time because you go 29 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:08.319 out on one more job and I'm gonna nail you. 30 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.680 You might be getting too big. Two men driven by 31 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:15.159 their need to prove they were the best. How you're 32 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:20.840 gonna get downstairs? I really like chasing you. Sounds like 33 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:30.280 you've got a problem. 34 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.960 I'm much better at this game than you are. Are 35 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:34.080 you winning to make some money? 36 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:39.240 I win? You're gonna do fifteen years for them? The money, 37 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:43.280 the law, even their lives no longer count. You don't 38 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.639 care about the money, might even send it to it. 39 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.680 Who was best was all that matter. This is a 40 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:53.599 quiet part of the hunting traps. Offset cowboys out are somewhere. 41 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:55.759 You've been set up in am to break the cop. 42 00:02:56.039 --> 00:03:00.800 The driver was willing to risk it all. Break the driver. 43 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:05.560 The cop was willing to break the laws. Pat It'll 44 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:11.000 cost you two years. Ryan O'Neill, Bruce Dern Isabella, Johnny 45 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:21.479 the Driver. A ruthless game between two legends. 46 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.199 Welcome to the projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White, 47 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.479 joining me once again as Ms. Beth A Commando. 48 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:29.039 Hello, thank you. 49 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.840 Also back in the booth is mister Walter Shaw. 50 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:33.520 Thank you so much for having me. 51 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.800 We kick off November twenty twenty five with a look 52 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.840 at Walter Hill's The Driver. Released in nineteen seventy eight. 53 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.280 The film stars Ryan O'Neil as the titular driver getaway 54 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.599 driver that is, if he were younger, you could call 55 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.080 him a baby driver. He's pursued by the detective played 56 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.280 by Bruce Dern and if you can't tell by these 57 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:54.199 character names, the film is a stripped down thriller that 58 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.639 plays with some familiar archetypes, including some that may feel 59 00:03:57.759 --> 00:03:59.960 very familiar if you're a fan of Jean Pierre Melville 60 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.240 Le Samurai. We will be spoiling the film as we 61 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.319 go along, so if you don't want anything ruined, please 62 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:07.400 turn off the podcast and come back after you've seen 63 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.400 the film. We will still be here. So, Beth, when 64 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:12.599 was the first time you saw The Driver and what 65 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:13.159 did you think? 66 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.759 I have a terrible memory for the first time. I 67 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.279 see a lot of films, but I do remember being 68 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:21.959 a big fan of Walter Hill around that timeframe, and 69 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.560 I feel like I saw The Long Writers before I 70 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:29.480 saw The Driver, but I remember really liking it, and 71 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.319 a lot of my film memories are tied to my dad, 72 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:37.439 who's the one who got me to really love cinema, 73 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:39.560 And I feel like the first time I saw it, 74 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.439 I think I was still a teenager and not quite 75 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.360 understanding it, and I remember talking to my dad about 76 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.480 how the film was these arc types as opposed to 77 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.000 real characters, because my dad always liked to make me 78 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:56.199 think more about films that I was watching, never answering 79 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:00.399 my questions, but prompting me to think about it more. 80 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.399 That's what I remember is the first time saying it, 81 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.360 being a little bit confused by it, but being a 82 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.800 fan of Walter Hill and being a huge fan of 83 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:12.879 just action films, and I just felt like it felt 84 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.120 fresh and new and different. I've since put it into 85 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.560 a slightly different context, seeing like Jean Pierre Melville's work, 86 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:23.319 like you mentioned, but when I saw it, that was 87 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:24.120 the first thing. 88 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:26.399 And Walter, how about yourself? 89 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:28.600 For some I saw it, I think it's got to 90 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.319 be in VHS. I think I came to it backwards 91 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.800 through the Warriors and the Streets of Fire was so enamored. 92 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.680 Those were more kind of my friend group, this vibe. 93 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.199 We really loved Warriors, we love the Streets of Fire. 94 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:44.079 Just when I became more aware that there was somebody, 95 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:46.759 there was an active hand behind some of these movies, 96 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:48.839 you started to work backwards and forwards. I think most 97 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:50.399 of us did in the pre Internet age, right, we 98 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.439 started to look at the credits and start wondering about 99 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:56.000 these people. And The Driver was one of the first 100 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.120 movies I was really actively searching for at local video 101 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.360 stories and stuff difficult in my small town Collorade to 102 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:04.480 find for a while, but I think I finally did 103 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.399 if I recall it. Video Plus late lamented Video Plus 104 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.199 had a copy of The Drivers, So I remember renting 105 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:15.000 it and being disappointed that it wasn't The Warriors over 106 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.199 Streets of Fire, something very animal, that was really different. 107 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.600 And it wasn't for years later that it came back 108 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.120 to it with a different kind of expectation, with no 109 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:25.800 expectation really just to say I was really little. I 110 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.399 didn't get it. I was twelve or thirteen. I wanted 111 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.639 street fights. I wanted guys in baseball uniforms. I don't know, 112 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.759 something different forty eight hours I wanted even and it 113 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:36.759 wasn't any of those things. I think the second time 114 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.920 is really when I began to appreciate it as a 115 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:40.600 kind of its own animal. But the first time I 116 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:43.199 saw it would have been on a pretty crappy VHS 117 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.759 and I was not nearly ready for it. 118 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.120 This was actually a first time watch for me for 119 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.319 this episode. When we had you on the show. I 120 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:54.360 think it was what last year I think you were 121 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.480 on before Walter. Obviously you've got the book about Walter 122 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.279 Hill that you wrote, and I was just like, Okay, 123 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.240 this guy knows what he's talking about. Let's get him 124 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:03.399 on and talk about a movie that I've always wanted 125 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.439 to see but never have because yeah, I'm a fan 126 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.199 of Walter Hill. We've done so many Walter Hill films 127 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.000 on this program. We've talked about The Getaway, We've talked 128 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.439 about Hickey and Bogs, Streets of Fire, The Warriors. I 129 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:21.959 can't even remember what all else we've discussed. But just 130 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:24.759 I had this blind spot of the driver, even though 131 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.279 I think I've got a screenplay that I printed out 132 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.720 forever ago and just always wanted to get into this 133 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.079 film and never did so. I use this as an 134 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.199 opportunity to say, Okay, if I'm going to talk about 135 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.720 this movie, I want to talk about it with two 136 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.040 people that I really enjoy their opinions, So let's check 137 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:42.399 it out. 138 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.199 That's great. What's your first reaction to it? 139 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.800 My first reaction is that I love this whole idea 140 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:54.279 of this stripped down narrative. I can really see the 141 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:59.160 Samurai influence on there, the whole idea, mostly at the beginning, 142 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.680 especially when it comes to the Isabella Johnny character and 143 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.120 the way that she sees Ryan O'Neill. And I know 144 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.720 we'll talk about how the original screenplay played out that 145 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.839 it wasn't a coincidence that she sees Ryan O'Neill, but 146 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:15.480 she becomes one of the few witnesses to see him, 147 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:20.439 very much like the singer Well from Le Samurai, as 148 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:23.160 well as Jenny from The Killer, and the way that 149 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.439 she can be the person that puts the finger on him, 150 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.959 and just the way that this movie plays with this 151 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:34.399 very cool color palette, and also the minimal dialogue that 152 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:37.480 it has. I'm trying to think it's like, what fifteen 153 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.080 minutes into the movie before Ryan O'Neill even says anything, 154 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.080 and there's very little dialogue. And then of course I 155 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:49.360 love Brucetern and seeing Bruce Dern in this era, especially 156 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:53.840 anytime I see Bruce Den I'm super happy. But nineteen 157 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:57.080 seventies Bruce Dern, Fuck, yes, I am there for it. 158 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.559 And I just really like him in this movie, and 159 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.039 especially to him and Matt Clark in their chemistry. And 160 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.960 then Joseph Walsh, who I've talked with Joseph Walsh for 161 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:11.120 hours and hours, but mostly about California Split. I never 162 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.840 brought up the Driver, which makes me feel pretty guilty, 163 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.240 but it was so nice to see him in here 164 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:18.440 in such a prominent role. 165 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.639 And Brewster wasn't the first choice for this film. It 166 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.559 was Robert Mitcham. Hill actually went over to Mitchum's office, 167 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:28.440 I guess it was, and he describes as there's two 168 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:32.159 chairs with a small refrigerator in between, and they sat 169 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.600 down and Mitchell pulled out of balla vodka from the 170 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.200 refrigerator and his is eleven in the morning here, but 171 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:40.320 he describes his long day spent with Mitcham and a 172 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:42.799 ball of vodka, and then the next day Bencham calls 173 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.639 up and says, nah, and that was it. He was 174 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:48.200 initially considered. You can imagine what a different kind of 175 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:53.080 movie that would have been without it. During snaky Reptilian insinuation, 176 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.679 which I think is perfect for the detective. 177 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.240 Durren can play a dirty cop like nobody's business. I 178 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.840 love the laughing policeman, which one of these days I'm 179 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.879 going to cover on this show. And I just feel 180 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:11.360 that he's racist, sexist, plant evidence and basically he's very 181 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.360 similar in this movie and so far as he will 182 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:17.240 do whatever it takes to catch the driver, and I 183 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:20.159 really appreciate that, and I also appreciate that I don't 184 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.759 know if we ever really see him in a police station. 185 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.840 No see him. We see him at Torchies, and I'm 186 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.679 just waiting for Peter Jason to be running the bar 187 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.120 back there and for Eddie Murphy to come walking in 188 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:33.799 saying there's a new sheriff in town. 189 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.080 I was so surprised because I haven't seen it in 190 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:40.480 a long time, and there are no police station shots 191 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:44.120 at all. His office is in that truck and in 192 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.080 the bar, and it's interesting because on a certain level, 193 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:53.000 it's like he's never in his real environment of his job, 194 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:58.759 but he's in his real environment of how he sees himself. 195 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.440 He's this player out on the streets, or the thing 196 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:06.120 about Priestern. I love him, but he's an actor who 197 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.320 in most of his films I always find that he 198 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.600 could have played both roles. He could have done a 199 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.000 kick ass job playing the driver. I especially thought of 200 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.559 that when I was watching Coming Home. I kept thinking, like, 201 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:21.039 man might have been better in him switched places. But 202 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.000 he's a great actor. I love watching him. 203 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.399 Yeah, Ryan O'Neil's an interesting choice. I know that Hill 204 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:31.960 really wanted Steve McQueen to play this role. I was 205 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.320 listening to the commentary that Matthew Aspery Greer put together 206 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.720 for the I think It's the Imprint disc and talking 207 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:43.080 about how O'Neill's career was a little bit on the 208 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.159 waning side. At this point. We had done Nickelodeon, which 209 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.240 really wasn't that big. He was huge in the earlier 210 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.120 part of the decade. By nineteen seventy eight, you're on 211 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.960 the downswing already. This seems so quick, but I guess 212 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:59.159 suff just moved pretty fast. And I think it's an 213 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:04.440 interesting choice to have this pretty boy actor playing this role. 214 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.840 And I like that he is so pretty that and 215 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.679 I'm sorry to use that word, but whenever I look 216 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:12.440 at him, he's such a beautiful man, and you would 217 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.799 think that he would be more like hard scrabble, like 218 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:18.240 even Bert Reynolds or something in this role would seem 219 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:21.639 more fitting. But I like that he's playing against type. 220 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.600 And I guess, really, when you look at somebody, and 221 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.919 we'll talk about this later on in the show, but 222 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.360 you look like a Ryan Gosling very similar so far 223 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:34.879 as very pretty man in this role as this silent, 224 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:36.200 stoic driver. 225 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.320 There's something about the John Ireland to him, or I 226 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.399 won't say money Cliff because he was a great actor, 227 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.840 but there's something about the sort of gentleman cowboy feeling 228 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.240 about it if you look at the Driver as a 229 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:49.120 Western which is why I did like write Adeal in 230 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.879 that role, because he's such a cipher really as a 231 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.320 human being. As an actor, I think there's a real 232 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.399 blankness to him that could be sociopathic. Possibly he had 233 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.799 worked with He'll be in a TV movie called The 234 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.000 Thief Who Came to Dinner, and Hill had written the 235 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.559 screenplay for that. It's really interesting to see the similarities 236 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.000 between those two performances. They're both the Thornhill character north 237 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.799 By Northwest go as the wind goes. There's not really 238 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:17.480 a set identity for them necessarily, and whatever's happening around 239 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.720 them seems to imprint and get filtered through them. I 240 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.759 think Ryan O'Neill's great movies, or because he's got great 241 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:25.559 co stars, there's something about him like open milk and 242 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:29.559 refrigerator or something. He takes on the flavor of whatever 243 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:33.559 is most prominent in the building. And here he couldn't 244 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.320 be more different from McQueen to both of your points, 245 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.600 I think because McQueen is such a died in the 246 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.000 wools sort of character, he is, we is what he is. 247 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.559 But for O'Neil, I think he really fits in with 248 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.679 this unknowable archetype maybe even thing, and in a movie 249 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.960 that's aspiring towards a Western archetype, I think kind of 250 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.519 works for hildasem twice, I think is he engenders a 251 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:57.919 lot of loyalty, but also I think he's got a 252 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.840 pretty good eye for that sort of asking all the 253 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:04.639 different kinds of masculinity that he covers in turn in 254 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:05.519 each of his films. 255 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.559 Ryan O'Neil wanted the part too, because I think he 256 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.080 was feeling his career. I don't know like waning, but 257 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:15.320 I think he was feeling tired of that sort of 258 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:17.960 type casting that he was getting. He was getting all 259 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.039 the same roles, and I think he saw this as 260 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.720 a chance to do something different. And if you consider 261 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.399 that the Samurai was an influence, he's a pretty boy, 262 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.960 just like Alan DeLong. They're both these like beautiful faces 263 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.440 that the camera loves that can be just this kind 264 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.080 of blank slate. You can also say that about Greta Garbo. 265 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.399 They always joke that what were you thinking about when 266 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.279 you were shooting that scene? And it was like nothing. 267 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.799 She was just this gorgeous face that whatever you cut 268 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.720 to you could read whatever you wanted into her. And 269 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.600 so I think the only moment where I felt that 270 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.159 he wasn't the right guy was when he beats up 271 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.120 that thug. That was the only time when I'm going 272 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:07.159 like maybe not, I'm not sure he would like really 273 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.840 take that guy out. But other than that, I think 274 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:12.879 he worked really well in this context. 275 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.919 You know, I really love that comparison to Alid the 276 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:19.159 Loan because lately I likely Samurai a lot asks almost 277 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.600 more as a comedy, like an existential comedy, because he's 278 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.519 such a bad assassin. There's thirty witnesses. He doesn't really care. 279 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.080 He does care how his hat looks, though he does 280 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:32.320 care of his callers just perfectly irony. He's just very 281 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.240 aware of his beauty. And I think there's something about 282 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.639 Millville that was talking about referencing that as a trope 283 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.240 I think in some of these movies. And yeah, I 284 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.320 think O'Neil's that kind of character as well. And the 285 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.080 only minor pushback I'd give to the beating up the 286 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.799 thug scene is that I think people who have no 287 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:53.240 like Mark Wahlberg, who have no interior life, seem are 288 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:57.519 really scary when they get violent because they see sharks. 289 00:15:57.559 --> 00:15:59.879 You know that was that the Quinn says, their eyes 290 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.919 roll back to black and then the screaming starts. I 291 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.600 feel like that with some of these actors that don't 292 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.519 really have it seems like any kind of hamster spinning 293 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.720 around the wheel. So when they start beating there's something 294 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.360 to me that feels really serial killer about that. I 295 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.200 can't reason with this thing. There's no mercy here. They've 296 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.039 just started down this road and they're going to continue 297 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:24.080 down the road, just because I can't really read him, 298 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.480 So I'm not really arguing with you. He's saying word 299 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.440 for me, because the scariest people and film for me 300 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.240 are not the cannibal elector seeing you can't engage him 301 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.879 in a conversation about bar talk or something he right, 302 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:37.159 and Neil, what are you going to talk to him about? 303 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:39.720 He's just there to kill you. So there's something about 304 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.440 that's scary to me. They can't reason with him, there's 305 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:45.559 no talking to him. If he's showing up to your 306 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.919 meeting angry, he's leaving angry. He's programming, and there's something 307 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.480 about that I think is interesting in a film that's 308 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:53.559 this programmatic. 309 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:58.080 But he's so fatalistic as well, because he knows that 310 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:00.679 he's being set up. That's how I I read this 311 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.840 movie is that he absolutely, one hundred percent knows. Even 312 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.279 when Glasses first approaches him and he basically murders the 313 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.079 car in the parking garage, that to me was him 314 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.640 just showing like, I know what you guys are up to. 315 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.400 I'm going to ruin your car. And then when he 316 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:19.839 takes the job later on, it's basically, yeah, I know 317 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.240 what's going to happen with this thing, but I have 318 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.960 to have like you're saying, is if this were Western, 319 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.960 I have to have this showdown. I've been on the sidelines. 320 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.759 I've been ducking black Bart for this whole time. I 321 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.200 need to man up. And I'm not sure if he's 322 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.880 actually a white hat or a black hat, because I 323 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.720 don't feel that either of these guys have both gray 324 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.480 hats to me, both very morally ambiguitu. But I just 325 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.960 feel like, Okay, this is the time I need to 326 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.519 make sure that I face off with Brewster and with 327 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.039 this detective. 328 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.359 Talking about showdown, it's like a showdown of egos, like 329 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.000 they each think they're the best and the only way 330 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.559 to prove it is to play this game where I 331 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.920 know what you're doing, but I can still beat you 332 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.200 at this or I'm going to trap you. But it 333 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:14.599 feels very much like it's all about their egos, and 334 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.000 that's why, like Isabella, Johnny can just walk away at 335 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.079 the end. It's not about her. It's about the two 336 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:20.680 of them, like having this fight. 337 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.079 It's his finishing move. It's Ryan O'Neil's the driver for 338 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.480 his finishing move where he plays chicken twice in this 339 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.960 movie and he wins both times, plays it against the 340 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.720 cops at the beginning they both separate and crash, and 341 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.319 then later on when he's going against glasses and his 342 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.640 driver does it again, sure enough, there's a crash. He 343 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.319 will not blink, and I appreciate him for that. 344 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.920 See, that's the part of the sociopath psychic guy that 345 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.720 I do believe that he pulls off well for me. 346 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.599 The punch did not land right for me, but that 347 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.759 sense of I'm not going to blink in this chicken 348 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.079 fight that I totally believed and thought he did really well, 349 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.119 because it's like it doesn't even fake him at all. 350 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.599 He knows he's gonna win because other people are more 351 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.599 human and will try to save themselves and pull aside. 352 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.279 Yeah, there's that such a fatalism there too, I think, 353 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.960 where I'm not sure that he knows that he'll win. 354 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.599 I don't trust that he cares or that he's aware 355 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.960 of consequences. I don't trust that he's aware of consequences, 356 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.119 which is a strange I guess sem to say. And 357 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.200 I think part of the effectiveness of that film for 358 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:31.000 me is that the driver is so ambiguous but also 359 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:36.319 so scary. He reminds me of all these Western villains 360 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.720 from Martin Lando, although I think leave Marvin, who show 361 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.039 up and you feel like, I don't know if they 362 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:44.720 know the damage that they're doing. I don't know that 363 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.599 they have thought through the preciousness of the lives that 364 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.960 they're taking. All this sort of liberal craft that I've 365 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:54.119 been docrenated with. But watching these movies, that was what 366 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.160 was the horror of those people, and to find it 367 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.000 a hero for me is one of those things that 368 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.279 only later as I got a little older, to college 369 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.200 and more existential, that I really truly appreciate. I think 370 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:07.319 watching this movie first, when I was really young and 371 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.960 looking for that black and white hero villain thing, which 372 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:14.839 really is there in Warriors and Streets of Fire in 373 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.480 forty eight hours, you see this obviously supposed to be 374 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.119 the hero, and yet well, I don't know. It's hard 375 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.559 to like him. He's not eloquent, he's not charming, he's 376 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.200 not warm at all. He doesn't seem to feel fear. 377 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.519 There's something scary and did about him. And I think 378 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.880 part of the allure of the Driver now is a 379 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.359 cult object, it seems like, because it really didn't do 380 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:39.640 well at the time. Part of that, I think is 381 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.440 that there's this chilliness about it. There's no exit kind 382 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.079 of feeling about it, where they're just engaged in the 383 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.519 cycle of violence and the set roles that they're trapped 384 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.440 in and cased it in their lives and they can't 385 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.759 ever break out of the cycle of the stuff that 386 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.319 they're doing. The kickers who can, like the player like 387 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.359 he is a Belgian player, are almost supernatural. She knows 388 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.839 more than she should at all times. She is able 389 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.119 to move in and out of the action. Everyone else 390 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.200 is trapped. We'll get glasses for God's sake. All these 391 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.960 people are trapped, and these we cannot get out of. 392 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.440 These were trapped there by their own design or by 393 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.759 the design of what their makeup is. There's something like 394 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.160 waiting for you to go about it that you were 395 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.640 just stuck here and there's nowhere for you to go, 396 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.279 and you're trapped in these roles that you're forced to 397 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.599 enact over and over again. Especially in our culture and 398 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.759 our media culture, you are the same roles that you're 399 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.359 cast in and you're first to reenact over and over again. 400 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:36.000 There's something about that. 401 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:39.400