Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the
Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.
As always, you can email the show at radio at
the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at fbr LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and
of course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Jennifer Brison, a fellow in the
Ethics and Public Policy Centers Catholic Women's Forum. She researches
and advocates for sound sports governance via the Sports Policy Initiative.
Jennifer's new report, freshly published at EPPC, is titled Reclaim
Team USA Sports from Activism, which highlights how the USA's
national sports teams use symbols of LGBTQ, gun control, and
other partisan causes on national uniforms and social media, and
as you might imagine, Americans have grown tired of it all.
Jennifer joins us now on this edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. Thanks so much for doing so.
Speaker 2: Jennifer, delighted to talk with you and your listeners.
Speaker 1: I think this is a very impactful report. I think
it sums up what I've just said. I think that
there is a fatigue. There has been a growing fatigue
among Americans who, let's face it, in all forms of sports,
in all walks of life. As we go through what
frankly is a marathon, not a sprint in Pride month,
as I talk to you, we are only half way
through and all of that. You know, leftist messaging is
on everything, but it's not quite as it has been
in years past. I think corporate America is waking up.
Will the Team USA officials wake up to the changes
going on?
Speaker 2: Well, we've already seen evidence this month that they are
not waking up, or as some would say, that they
are woke. So on September tenth of this month, when
the US men's national soccer team played Switzerland, the game
was held in Nashville, the US team added to its
jersey a rainbow design and it wasn't just LGB, it
was the Progress Pride stripes, So lots of activist causes
packed in there, and those stripes color the number of
each player on the team. And I've been following this
issue since twenty seventeen and it has been getting worse. However,
I agree with you that we have an opportunity now
that enough people are tired of it, that there are
possibilities to push back. And as I outline in my report,
more than I think a lot of Americans may be aware,
political offices and power have a huge amount of influence
on our amateur sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to talk about that as we proceed
in our conversation today, but I'm I'm thinking about the
great Michael Jordan. And you know, nobody, nobody sold more
shoes than Michael Jordan with his Air Jordan brand. And
he was asked years ago, you know, why don't you,
why don't you be an activist, you know, for the
left in these important social justice causes or however they're
being framed or defined. And his answer to that, which
I love it still resonates to this day, was that
conservatives by tennis shoes too. Yes, And I mean that's
the idea here is that. Yeah, you have people following
the US soccer team, following the Olympic teams who very much,
you know, agree with the sentiments of the far left
in this country. But you have a lot of Americans
who don't. So why is it that Team USA continues
to pick sides choose sides when the average American says,
dear lord, why don't you just give us the sports,
the thrill of this competition and keep your political agenda
out of this.
Speaker 2: Well, and in a case like this where the team
is adding an image or a symbol to the uniform
or to the gear such as hockey sticks, where you know,
if Michael Jordan is selling a pair of shoes, I
have a choice as a consumer whether or not to
buy the shoes. Right now, we have an added layer
of coercion in that the players face the dilemma of
where the image or don't be allowed on the team.
And I think that's a huge problem. So why is
this continuing? Well, I think it's because nobody has ever
said stop it to the national governing bodies of sports
in the USA.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that, because if that is
the case, let me go on record now and say
stop it. We've had enough. And you make this point
in your in your research, it's not, you know, just
something on the left. Uh, it's it's the right. It's
every political ideological cause. You don't need to have that
tied into Team USA sports, their logos, their flags, they're designs.
It should be truly nonpartisan, truly non political, but it isn't.
And I think your point is well taken. So there
are a lot of Americans who have said, make this stop?
How do you make this stop?
Speaker 2: So what you comment that a lot of Americans don't
want this has also been my finding. As I mentioned,
I've been working on this issue and studying it following
it since twenty seventeen, and consistently when people find out
about this sort of specialized interest I have in stopping
the placement of the visuals, let's say, of activist causes
on sports uniforms and gear. All the time people say
to me, oh, I'm so tired of it. I used
to watch this league or this sport, but I simply
stopped because I was tired of it. But as I said,
while I absolutely second your call that this must stop
until the authorities in charge of amateur sports in the
United States have clearer rules about uniforms and have consequences
those who want to exploit, I would even say, hijack
sports to use them as a platform for various non
sporting causes. They're going to keep pushing. And that's what
we've seen since twenty seventeen because it started out just
with the LGBT rainbow, and they did that for a
few years, mostly during just Pride Month then and when
nobody said no, oh, then they expanded it and it's
now international. We see this in soccer in the fall,
for example, I think the Premier League in England has
a whole LGBT season. And we've now seen, especially with
the US Soccer Federation and is that they keep on
adding the types of causes that they're pushing. So they
Also in twenty twenty two, the men's team wore orange armbands,
not just the captain but all the players to represent
their advocacy for gun control, and the team issued a
press release specifically calling for gun control. Also in twenty twenty,
the men's team wore what are called anthem jackets, So
those are the jackets that they wear when they're singing
the national anthem. They individual players wore slogans from the
Black Lives Matter BLA cause, so and tell somebody says no,
They're not only going to continue, but we're seeing that
they keep pushing it and we're now also seeing more
and more in other sports as well.
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. That's how the left in
this country, in particular moves. If you do not stop them,
if you do not say no, they will continue to
push and to push and push. I've said it on
many occasions. The left, the far left in this country
is like rust. It never sleeps. And that has happened
in all kinds of agendas and causes from the left.
But here's the other problem as well, Jennifer. We know
this and we're seeing it play out in real time
with the rule of law in this country when it
comes to all kinds of things, but particularly illegal immigration,
the left will continue to push. When you say no,
in the law says no, there haven't been consequences. You
talked about consequences. This presidential administration has been the first
to bring about consequences for not following the law, for
taking supposedly non political, nonpartisan organizations that should be that,
and have turned them into political organs and political voices.
There have been consequences for that, from DEI that movement
in America's colleges in institutions to well, you name it.
What does that look like?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 1: What do consequences look like for the people in power
that are making these decisions for Team US.
Speaker 2: Sure, I think it would help listeners if I start
by explaining just a little bit about the structure of
sports governance in the United States, because this is the
key to understanding how to change this. So, in a
lot of countries in the world, there is a ministry
of sports in the government, or a department of sports
inside of a ministry of the government, and that government
office then decides, for example, which group gets to be
in charge of soccer and figure skating and ice hockey
and go on down the list, and with the authority
of the government. Then the group that is in charge
of a specific sport then governs the sport, trains athletes,
hicks athletes for the national team to represent the country.
That's a big deal, and other functions also to help
you know, the public have access to play that particular sport.
The United States, however, is quite different in that Congress
in the nineteen seventies delegated the authority to govern amateur
sports in the United States. So amateur sports would be
the Olympics, the Paralympics, the Pan American Games, and other
aspects of amateur sports as well. This also has an
influence somewhat also, let's say, for example, on K through
twelve sports for children. So Congress in the nineteen seventies
delegated that authority to what's called a federally chartered nonprofit organization.
And so it's a nonprofit organization that raises private funds.
But it exists, and here's the key, only with the
authority of Congress. And so the federally chartered non profit
that is in charge of all American amateur sports is
today called the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee. And that
name is confusing because its mission is far more than sports,
I'm sorry, than just the Olympics. But that organization is
the one that has the power to certify or now
here's the key de certify a national governing body for
a sport. So let's take an example. Let's look at gymnastics.
In just a few years ago, US gymnastics had a
terrible scandal going on for years with sexual abuse of
young gymnasts, mostly female gymnasts.
Speaker 4: By exactly who We're being sexually abused by males, coaches, doctors, And.
Speaker 2: In that case, the US Olympic Committee or US Olympic
and Paralympic Committee had the risks not just the authority,
but the responsibility to make sure US Gymnastics was doing
its job governing the sport. The USOPC, as the US
Olympic and Paralympic Committee is known, failed, and in that case,
Congress stepped in and made the law governing amateur sports
even stronger, which is going to help us when we
get back to our topic of these activists cause images
on uniforms, and so now I think it's since twenty
twenty two. I believe both the US Olympic and Paralympic
Committee as well as Congress have the authority to decertify
an national governing body of a sport under certain circumstances,
and so I think that Congress needs to step in
and put pressure on the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee.
And I would also suggest, such as the House did
with USA fencing after they punished, essentially punished a female
fencer for refusing to play against a male fencer compete
against a male fencer who was pretending to be a female,
I would like to see Congress, and in particular would
be the Senate Commerce Committee led by Senator Ted Cruz
that has the authority over amateur sports. I'd like to
see them hold hearings to see what is going on
with the national governing bodies that seemed completely out of control.
Speaker 1: Indeed they do, and as you mentioned, the USOP has
had a very troubled past. The whole scandal with the
female gymnast comes immediately to mind, and more modern modern
day maybe they should say, more recently the whole fencing scandal.
In that situation that's becoming a significant part of the
discussion around these issues, and that is males competing in
women's sports in all walks of life, in the amateur realm.
Speaker 2: Yes, and with that issue of males and female sports,
I absolutely admire and I'm cheering for each individual female
who stands up and refuses to compete or refuses to
get up on the podium. But to solve this problem,
we're going to have to go beyond individuals saying no
to the top of the power pyramid. And that is
where I was delighted recently when Senator Ted Cruise in
a letter, suggested the possibility of decertifying USA Fencing as
the national governing body of fencing because of their mishandling
of this, and I was delighted not only because it
would help get males out of female sports, but also
this is where the power lies in sports governance to
reign in and have orderly sports governance in America for
the athletes and for the American people who want to
cheer for Team USA.
Speaker 5: This is Molly Hemingway of the Federalist join me, my husband,
mark of Real Clear Investigations, CNN political commentator Scott Jennings,
doctor Carl Truman of Grove City College, and others for
the twenty twenty five Making the Case Conference Friday July
eighteenth and on Saturday July nineteenth at Concordia University, Chicago.
Learn more at Issues Etc. Dot org. Making the Case
July eighteenth and nineteenth in Chicago, Issues Etc. Dot Org.
Speaker 1: You mentioned this before about, you know, the changes that
led to reforms Congress now being involved. This is congressional domain,
so it is not the second branch issues. We're not
talking about the executive branch. So, as I mentioned before
about the Trump administration, the President in particular taking executive
action to in my humble opinion, right some wrongs with
the whole DEI movement in America. That is not a
possibility for the president to act. This is merely in
the hands of Congress. If there is going to be
some movement from the outside, so to speak.
Speaker 2: Well, I am waiting to see if some of those
good lawyers they're in the executive branch can identify points
of intervention that would be appropriate to the office of
the President. And let me cite one example that I
think could already be relevant. I've written on this and
hopefully the article will be coming out this week. In
the executive order that Trump issued to keep males out
of female sports, he called on his Domestic Policy advisor
to gather the leaders of national sports organizations and this
would include the USOPC, and insisted that they be required
to take steps to stop allowing males and female sports.
And so it would seem to me that one of
those steps would include to stop displaying the flag colors
of transgenderism that pastel blue, pastel pink, pastel white we
see all too often now, to require that the teams
at least not be pushing transgenderism on their uniforms, because
think about it, the US men's team, when they wore
the Progress Pride flag stripes on their jerseys in an
international match representing the country against Switzerland on June tenth.
There in effect calling for and cheering for a movement
that is advocating for females and male sports. I think
this is a problem.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Americans agree with you in
the polling. Back to that statement up. Our guest today
is Jennifer Brison, a fellow in the Ethics and Public
Policy Centers Catholic Women's She researches and advocates for sound
sports governance via the Sports Policy Initiative. Jennifer's new report,
freshly published at EPPC, is titled Reclaim Team USA Sports
from Activism. And as I mentioned, Jennifer, the American people
are squarely behind the idea the opposition to men in
women's sports. But yet we have seen the progressive left
in this country wanting to die on this hill. What
do you say to those in that movement who say, hey,
this is democracy, this is free speech, this is you know,
standing up for a cause through the First Amendment. What
say you to that? Because that has been an argument
along the way in this discussion.
Speaker 2: Of course, there is a huge, huge difference between private
American citizen exercising their free speech or also their freedom
of assembly to advocate for this cause of transgenderism, including
advocating for males and female sports. However much I might disagree,
that's one thing. However, a team that is representing officially
representing the United States of America as a country has
a different level of I think responsibility in their roles.
As I said, a representative of the United States and
also the national governing body of a sport. While it
is a nonprofit organization, it does not exist of its
own will and authority. It only is the official national
governing body because the USOPC has certified it as the
national governing body. And that's something the USOPC can take away.
And I think the USOPC needs to have negative consequences
for teams that are putting all sorts of whether it's
you know, images, messages, symbols other than the flag of
the United States, and artistic representations of the flag as
we see in many of the wonderfully creative sports uniforms.
Anything other than that does not belong on the uniform.
And while these are two separate issues about the images
placed on the uniform, and sports gear on the one hand,
and males and female sports on the other. There is
a common element, and that is sports governance. Improving sports
governance in the United States has the potential, I think,
actually quickly if the authorities who have the power to
act act to solve both problems, at least in amateur sports.
Dealing with this in professional sports is a bit different
and gets more complicated. But the focus of my report,
as you say, it has Team USA in the title.
I'm focused on our national sports teams in the sports
that are governed by the USOPC.
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, you know this is the private sector
is going to within the boundaries of civil rights laws
and all of those sorts of things, going to do
what they're going to do. That's why I wish that
this report also would take a look at the Los
Angeles Dodgers, because they've done all kinds of things in
the name of progressive activism that I do not agree with.
But again, as you mentioned, they're a private entity, a
private business. They can effectively do what they want. But
we're talking yeah, no, go ahead.
Speaker 2: However, I'd like to point out an exception to doing
whatever they want that applies I think in you know,
privately owned for profit professional sports teams. That's related also
to our national teams. And in my report, I identify
three harms of placing these activists cause images on sports uniforms,
and one of those three that is relevant in professional
sports is the problem of coercion and discrimination. And in
the United States, with our civil rights law, organizations have
a responsibility not to discriminate on the basis of sex, religion,
et cetera. And in these cases, and we saw this
just recently with the LA Dodgers, it's often religious believers
today who don't want to be wearing these left wing causes,
and these individuals are being coerced, and this is an
issue of conscience for the individual and I would like
to see some individuals working through the law to protect
themselves from being forced to wear images or messages that
violate their deepest, sincerely held beliefs.
Speaker 1: Indeed, you're absolutely right, and that's the the civil rights
portion of this. Unfortunately, in this country, for well the
better part of the last decade and a half, in particular,
I think this country and the people who control a
good deal of power have either believed that discrimination works
only in a certain direction or certain directions and doesn't prevail,
doesn't involve other directions. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what.
I think, we're waking up from the wokeness that was
the spell over a lot of policymakers in this country
for many the past years now on that front. And
I think that raises a good question, what about the
people who the athletes who don't agree with these symbols,
that don't agree with these policies from the USOPC. What
happens to them?
Speaker 2: So to me, you hit the nail on the head,
because that was the concern that first got me interested
in this issue. In May twenty seventeen, when I heard
that the US Soccer Federation was going to be adding
an LGBT rainbow to the national uniform during Pride Month,
I immediately thought, wait a minute, what if an athlete
doesn't want to wear that? And on my website that
I have that's at Sports policy dot org, I've started
a gallery of heroes and I'm profiling athletes in various
sports and from all over the world who have said
no to wearing one of these images, to being coerced
to wear it as part of the uniform and I'm
looking for more and more examples of courageous individuals who
have stood up and say no. So your listeners can
nominate heroes for the Courage Award if they know of any.
And I think that we need to highlight and cheer
for and applaud these athletes who often significant cost to
their own career, are saying no.
Speaker 1: Indeed, we'll touch upon one in particular coming up and
just moment. But I do want to get into the
public versus private zone again with all that we're talking about,
there's also taxpayer money involved in this as well. If
that is indeed the case, then you definitely have the
responsibility of the government to make sure that taxpayer dollars
are being represented, especially in a non discriminatory way. How
does all of that fit into this conversation.
Speaker 2: So that gets us into some tricky territory because of
this status of the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee as
a nonprofit organization that raises private funds. Right, so there
may be there certainly are cases where there is a
major international event, and we have two coming up in
the United States, which is one reason I wrote this report. Now,
let's look at the and the issue of money. So
the World Cup of Soccer in twenty twenty six will
be held in three countries, Canada, the United States, and Mexico,
and there will be I believe, eleven sites in the
United States. Now, no doubt there are local governments and
federal governments that are involved financially in supporting the event,
for example the development of infrastructure. And then in twenty
twenty eight we have the Summer Olympics coming to Los Angeles,
and again there's bound to be some role for the
government financially. However, when we look at sports.
Speaker 6: Governance, I am not so sure that the question of
taxpayer funding is going to be the lever that can
be pulled. Because the USOPC, as I said, is a
nonprofit that raises private funds. What's different learned though with
other nonprofits, as I mentioned before, is it exists only
under the authority of Congress, and so I think that
the authority that could make a difference is the power
to say yes or no to the existence of these
organizations such as the USOPC, and then the individual national
governing bodies. If there is somebody out there, a lawyer
or somebody else.
Speaker 2: Who wants to share more about how federal or even
local tax dollars are going to the USOPC or to
national governing bodies. I love to learn more about that,
but right now I don't see an avenue there.
Speaker 1: I worry about how much of Los Angeles is going
to be left for the twenty twenty eight games. Quite frankly,
what we're seeing, and indeed I mean that in all sincerity.
And if what is happening today continues into the twenty
twenty eight Olympic time period, well that's another topic for
another show well together.
Speaker 2: But I do think that it touches on something that
is very relevant to our topic that I think deserves
more attention. So these riots going on in LA and
other cities are a sign of many different problems, and
one of them is deep division in American society. Well,
a cultural institution we have in this country that can
play a great role in civic harmony and national unity
is the cultural institution of sports. And so this is
another reason I've been concerned about seeing sports hijacked for
activist causes, is that it degrades the role of sports
as a shared civicanstrtitution in America Because, as for me,
I'll go to a local baseball game here in Nebraska
where I live. We've got a team in Lincoln, the
Salt Dogs, and I'm sure that there are fans rooting
for our local team with whom I would disagree on
many things and they would disagree with me. However, together
at the sports game, we can enjoy the game together
and we can root for the team together. However, when
teams become divisive an even partisan, that's gone.
Speaker 1: It is indeed, and it brings us to the division
within the athletic community, the amateur athletic community itself. Yes,
and I think about I wanted to get your take
on the recent flap between Simone Biles and Riley Games.
That's one of the biggest issues out there. Once again,
it is men involved in women's sports. This fiery exchange
from these two athletes, and I think, if anything, it
did shine some more light on where America stands on
these issues. What do you think about it all?
Speaker 2: I agree it shined light because the comments by Simon
Files supporting males and female sports were not received with
great cheer. And I also found it upsetting that she's
using her high public profile after she has won her medals,
whereas the athletes who don't want to be coerced, they
sometimes don't even get the chance to win medals.
Speaker 1: That's a very important point. I mean, that is the
issue with the fencing situation, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: Another example that this is the example that the first
example I know of of this coercion and then an
athlete saying no was in twenty seventeen. As I mentioned
in May twenty seventeen, I heard the US Soccer Federation
was going to add an LGBT rainbow to the uniform,
and my alarm bells and my head went off, and
so I began watching this and one of the great
soccer defenders in women's soccer, Jayleen Hinkel, who's a Christian,
she got called up to the national team, which is
a huge honor and a major milestone in a career.
But she declined. And while she made a statement that
was very she said it was for personal reasons, it
later came out more clearly she declined because she refused
to wear the LGBT rainbow on a uniform. And she's
in my gallery of heroes.
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Speaker 1: Final question for you, it's a question that I ask
a lot of our guests to deal with policy issues,
cultural issues, and that is this, where do you see
this going five ten years from now? But a little
faster timeline than that, because, as you mentioned, some significant
worldwide events will be taking place in this country over
the next few years, that of course involving soccer and
involving a lot of sports. With the Olympics in Los Angeles.
Do you see significant changes on this front moving in
the direction you'd like to see it or where do
you see it going in the next several years.
Speaker 2: For the first time since I got involved in this
issue in twenty seventeen, and I began realizing that it
was all going to be much more difficult than I expected.
For the first time since then, I have more hope
than I've had before. And this is because of two factors. One,
the American public is tired of it, and they are
saying that out loud. That's essential. The second part, you've
got to say it out loud. The second is political power,
because that is how sports governance is authorized in the
United States. And so with President Trump in office and
also having a Republican Congress and having good leadership on
the committee that's responsible for the USO PC. As I
mentioned that Senator Cruz and the Senate Commerce Committee, we
have a window of opportunity for our leader political leaders
in this country to take action that can correct this. However,
if they don't seize that opportunity, I think that it's
we may see years more of fighting over this. So
it's one reason that I wrote the report Reclaimed Team
USA Sports from Activism Now and published it now.
Speaker 1: It really does relate to so much. I keep hearing
that turn of phrase, and it couldn't be truer window
of opportunity. There are so many things. If we want
to restore this republic, quite frankly, if we want to
restore this culture, if we want to bring back morality,
a compass, a moral compass to this country and to
policymakers who decide so much. Yeah, it is a window
of opportunity. But if that window of opportunity closes, we
may not get that opportunity for a very long time.
I think that's as you said. Your report really does
drive that home. Thanks to my guest today, Jennifer Brice,
and a fellow in the Ethics and Public Policy Centers
Catholic Women's Forum. She researches and advocates for sound sports
governance via the Sports Policy Initiative. Jennifer's new report recently
published at EPPC titled Reclaim Team USA Sports from Activism. Jennifer,
thanks so much for joining us. Thank you you've been
listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm
Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be
back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom
and anxious for the friend