Speaker 1: The following presentation is Del Marvis Studio's production.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network. Here is
your host, Doge Hobbs.
Speaker 3: Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time
for another edition of the fact Hunder podcast as we
record on this Monday morning, March second, twenty twenty six.
Hope everybody had a great weekend. This is a very
busy week. We have two interviews as promised. Today we
have Jeff Fish we'll be talking about Abolitionist Rising, and
don't forget. Wednesday, we have Grace's dad, Scott Schara, joining us.
His book is coming out on March tenth, So we
have two great conversations this week. And we have at
least two substack articles, one dropping tomorrow and I think
one dropping Thursday. So busy week, and one housekeeping item.
I am going to be on vacation next week if
something you know huge happens. And don't forget, by the way,
tomorrow's March there's your thirty three, so keep your head
on a swivel. But otherwise, the wife and I are
going to take some downtime before we start the next
semester and spring gets here and the chickens arrive, you
know how it goes. So there's the housekeeping portion of
the podcast. We're going to bring on today's special guest
joining us from the great state of Oklahoma. Been there
several times. Beautiful town, beautiful city, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, great people.
He's struggling with a cold. Today it's a freezing forty
seven degrees and we're going to bring them on the show.
Here he is this Jeff Fish. Jeff, thank you so
much for taking the time out to join us today.
Speaker 4: It's my pleasure. George. I've been looking forward to reaching
out to you for a long time, and you have
another podcast I was going to be on and then
that one ended, but thankfully it came back on and
so that's kind of what brought you and I together.
But we thought that, or you thought that it would
be a good idea to have me on this one today,
and I'm happy to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we'll certainly have you on the other one
to share your journey in the very near future as well.
But you know, the subject we're going to talk about
today is something that is it's it's funny because it's
considered divisive. It's even considered divisive and many denominations within
the churches here in America. And but John Macarthurs, somebody
who I read often, you know, talks about the Great Holocaust.
One people who aren't in Christ. Number two all the
the babies that are slaughtered in the womb. And that
is something very near and dear to my heart that
I think we as followers of Christ need to treat
life with the utmost of respect. And the Bible warns
us of, you know, those who bring harm to little ones.
But you know, instead of me rambling, I think the
right thing to do. Let's have you introduced yourself and
kind of how you you know, stumbled onto Abolitionist Rising
and your mission.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, my name is Jeff and I now live
in Oklahoma, and that's been a long journey to get here.
Parents are from Arkansas, both of them from the Deep South.
They wound up in Colorado. I was born there. Just
take a guess which day I was born on. George, Oh,
I have no idea is in context with what we're
talking about?
Speaker 3: So, oh, what was it when they passed Rover Versus Wade?
Speaker 4: Yeah, January twenty second, nineteen seventy three was the day
I was born. That's right.
Speaker 3: I dropped a substack on that day because it was
the fifty third anniversary. I think it was seventy three's
when it happened. And if you look at that, well,
I think it's between sixteen seventy million abortions over the
last you know, fifty three years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's just the ones that we can count. We
actually had abolitionists rising. My good friend Russell Hunter. T
Russell Hunter. He's a he's a brilliant man. If you
were allowed to worship a human being, he'd be a
good candidate, but you know, we're not allowed to. And
he's a sinner just like me. But he's a he's
a fabulous artist. He's a he's a great speaker, he's
a great thinker, and he makes he makes some pretty
interesting already made a bill that that it looks like money,
but it had fifty three the value of fifty three
in the corners. And our good President Donald Trump is
featured in there, and in his head is turned away
from child sacrifice. It has taken place in the nation,
and he has his red hat on and it it
doesn't show what's written on the red hat. We know
it's usually written on the red hat, which is make
America great again. But his hat says goat nation g
O A T. He is the head of a goat nation.
And we know what the Bible says about how Christ
is going to separate the nations the sheep from the goats,
and he is the head of a goat nation. Anyway,
I digress. So I grew up in Colorado, the parents
of people from the South I had. I had a
decent upbringing, kind of an unstable childhood. Father was always
away working as a as a boiler maker, so my
mom and my brothers raised me. I was the youngest
of three boys. Anyway, my parents split the sheets when
I was eleven and we high tailed it to Arkansas,
and I ended up meeting my wife there. I met
her when I was in the seventh grade. She and
I were band geeks, and so we were in you know,
several classes together but mostly banned is kind of what
we centered around, and ended up getting out of graduating
high school nineteen ninety one, went into the army about
a half a year later, went into the army band
and stayed in for eight years. She and I married
that the year that I got out of got into
the army ninety two, and we've been together since. So
what is that thirty three years now working on her
thirty fourth. Anyway, I was not a Christian. I considered
myself a Christian because I was, you know, I believed
in God, but I wasn't. I mean, we went to
church occasionally, but not all the time. My parents were
both alcoholics, into drugs, very unstable marriage. They were married
for twenty three years actually, And so anyway, I thought
I thought I was a Christian, but I really didn't
know what that meant. I didn't know. I knew I
wasn't following God and everything because I was pretty sinful.
I was. I would lie when the truth sounded better.
That's that's a saying that I've had said to me
many times by my father in law. Anyway, So while
I was in Germany nineteen ninety seven, I finally surrendered.
I was in deep moral depravity, doing a lot of
harm to my wife and just just to everybody, other
people's families, and I finally surrendered. I kind of I
hated who I was, you know, I knew I was
a liar. I was constantly making up stories and yeah,
and I would, I would cheat to cheat lie. You know,
it all goes hand in hand, all sin goes hand
in hand. And I wasn't faithful to my wife, and
you know, God preserved us through all of that. But
it was it was through that time in my life
where I knew that I was in big trouble with God.
He was always part of my life, like I always
believed in him, and I always there was no question
that he was real. But I finally surrendered and and
I wanted to just I wanted to just follow him.
And it was it was a radical change for me.
And it wasn't from going to church or anything like that.
I knew that people were praying for me. My wife
was praying for me, my mom was always praying for me.
And anyway, so you know, I went to my chaplain
one day and I told him, I said, you know,
I'm not a christ And right, he goes, I know, Jeff,
I mean I had been in marital counseling with him
for months and uh, and I said, but I want,
I want to be a Christian. I want to follow God. Now. Anyway,
that was October of ninety seven. So and and I
tell you you hear stories like this from people who
are who talk about their Christian journey, from their life
before Christ, living as you know, really deep sinners, to
what it means to be made new, to be regenerated,
to be regiemed that happened to me. I mean, colors
looked different to me. Sounds and smells they were all.
They all seemed different. I can't explain it. But other
people who've been through that know what I'm talking about.
And so all I want to do is like read
the Bible. I was in the army, so you know,
you know, we wore BDU's battle dress uniform. We have
cargo pockets. I kept a Bible in my right cargo pocket.
When I felt temptation for sin, I'd whip out my
Bible and start reading and memorizing scripture. That was just
what I did to cope with it. And so I
memorized a lot of scripture that way. Anyway, up until
that point, I wasn't paying attention to really anything on
the world stage. In my own little world, I was.
But this is embarrassing, but I can't even remember when
the person that I voted for first as president, my
first time voting, when I was eighteen. Was my governor,
Bill Clinton. I voted for him because my dad told
me I'm a Democrat, that Republicans were evil, and you know,
I feared my dad, So that's what I did, and
I was happy to vote for my government. He's he's
my governor, he's on my team. You know, he's head
of my state. So I voted for him, but I
couldn't tell you that he he got re elected. I
didn't even notice that that happened. That's how self centered
I was at that time of my life. Anyway. But
after I was saved and I surrendered, bowed the need
of Christ, I started paying attention to things, Like things
started mattering to me, like even politics, and I kind
of got involved in that, like listening to all the
talking heads, you know, the Republican talking heads, and so
whereas an abortion was never anything to me, it became
like the thing that it was a litmus test or
like I can't vote for somebody if they weren't if
they aren't at least pro life, if they if they
said that they were pro life, then I could consider them,
But if they didn't, if they didn't kind of lead
with that, I wouldn't even consider them and I and
I didn't do anything about them. It made sense that
all these other things that we're concerned about, our freedoms,
they took a back seat to life. Because if you
don't have life, then you don't have anything else. So
I'm thinking that just makes sense they need to be
pro life. Well, fast forward after having a baby, a
baby that had special needs. By the way, my first
daughter had Down syndrome, and she was born early sea section.
She was basically dying in the womb and it was
an emergency sea section. So she came into the world
with Down syndrome, which is not a death sentence. Most people,
you know, feel bad for you that you have a
child with Down syndromes. It's been such a blessing. But
the second thing that was the matter where there was
and that was the main problem. She had cerebral palsy
because she had a basically like a stroke in the
womb because of a blood disorder. So she came into
the womb, you know, traumatically. It really affected our lives
so much that I just We were then stationed in
Missouri at Fort hunard Wood and needed to get get
out of the military and get close to family because
we were just overwhelmed with our new daughter and just
trying to get through. She had a feeding tube, which
she has to this day. She's twenty six years old,
and just you know, wheelchair bound all the things. So
we exited the military, moved to Colorado, where my in
laws had moved to from Arkansas and Western Colorado. We
were in Grand Junction, and that's where I really started
to grow as a Christian. I got involved with a
small community church if you've ever heard of them. They're
like the Brethren Assemblies, the Plymouth Brethren. They're Anabaptis. They
don't they don't look like Amish, but they they kind
of believe like they do during during you know, like
church services, the women wear head coverings, but not all
the time. And anyway, it was a very respectful, very
how do I say it, it honored. It seemed to
me like it honored God like appropriately our time together
at that at that little church. So I really started
to grow. I started to uh study the scriptures. I
started to study like the cults. I became very interested
in the cults, and which led me into finding them
out about the Illuminati, and you know the controllers of
this world and the secret societies, all that kind of stuff.
That's that's kind of where my journey began back in
like two thousand and Sorry, I'm rambling details matter though
absolutely they kind of Yeah. Yeah, I've always been criticized
for tangents and rambling, but yeah, I was really studying
on that kind of stuff. And I started watching a
I shouldn't say, a TV evangelist. He was an evangelist.
Many might know him, can't hovend he He was from
from the north, the north, but he he he wound
up down in Pensacola, Florida, and he had a a
website called doctor dno dot com. He was the head
of creation Science evangelism. He went around at churches speaking
on creation science, evolution, and dinosaurs. And that really intrigued
me that in Bible prophecy. So started studying all that.
But during this time, I was a consumer of information,
just constantly consuming things. But I wasn't really I wasn't
sharing my faith with people, my way of sharing my faith,
And it was like a terrifying thing. I'm you know,
I'm a man pleaser that I've always known that about myself.
That's That's why I was a liar so much, because
I wanted to please man, I wanted to be accepted.
A very insecure person, I was scared to share the
Gospel with people, and I probably couldn't very well. So
I would just you know, like get up the nerve
to invite people to church. And that was like terrifying
because I was afraid of rejection. So I'm studying all
these things, and you know, I would consider myself very
bold if I like talked about them with people like
coworkers and family and friends, but never sharing the gospel.
And this is kind of interesting. One of my reasons
in getting out of the military, not just because of
my daughter. I wanted to become a police officer and
I had an incident in Germany. You remember force protection, Yeah,
of course. Yeah. Yeah, So for people who don't know,
like overseas is where I got to experience force force protection.
And that's if you're at a military installation and there's
like a known thread or if there's a heightened level
of security.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they raised the threat con levels, like even
when you drive here on the Dover Air Force Base,
it'll let you know what the current threat con is.
And when the bombing started on Saturday, they raised it.
The folks at the front gate instead of just wearing
their uniforms and a hat, they have their otvs on,
they have their weapons with them. So you know, as
world events change, so does the threat cons on these bases.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was. I was an E five. Now
remember I'm an Army bandsman. But Army bandsmen are first
trained as soldiers. We have, yeah, we have a secondary mission.
They used to be combat life savers combat medics, but
over time they switched them to being They ended up
becoming the security force for their general, a forty member
unit that was attached to the general. Anytime he went
on deployment, the band went with them as a security detachment.
So we controlled the skiff, the talk, not the skiff,
but the talk, the tactical Operations Center and anyway. So
we would be sent out to different parts of the
base or other facilities, US facilities in Germany and control
the access to those places. So I'm armed, locked and loaded.
I'm the n c O. I C at a checkpoint
in Wisbaden, Germany, and I'm within sight of where the
UH the PX is and and somebody came running out
of there, running from there, and then a woman came
behind him and said, stop him. He just robbed us. Well,
I didn't want to shoot him, so I handed my
my partner my weapon and took off after him. I
ended up tackling him, arrested him. I don't you know,
I don't even have handcuffs. I tackled him and held
him down until the police came. And anyway, it was
a big deal. I got reprimanded by my commander for
doing that. He said, I put myself in danger and
never do that again. And I'm I'm kind of confused
because like everybody else was saying, you did a great job. Well,
that incident affected my life. It kind of it changed
the trajectory of what I wanted to do with my life.
That adrenaline and the praise that came from that. My
commander had to retract his reprimand because the six the
colonel in charge of a fees in Europe, gave me
an award for doing that. So all of a sudden,
I wanted to be a cop. And uh so that
was another reason for getting out of the military. I
was going to go be part of the Colorado State patrol,
thinking that I could just you know, military experience, I
could be a walk on. Well that's not the case.
Anybody who's in law enforcement knows how political it is. Basically,
I would have had to have had a senator's letter
or something like that. It's kind of like getting into,
you know, one of the Ivy League military schools. You
got to you have to know somebody otherwise, you know,
seasoned police officers from decent departments, it takes them years
to get on. Well, I tried three different times, went
through the whole hiring process, and it didn't didn't happen.
So in the meantime, I put myself through law enforcement
Academy at a votech got certified, got hired on with
the Sheriff's Department Glenwood Springs, Colorado, which is Garfield County,
and I got hired on with a federal grant. So
they were the federal government gave out a bunch of
grants to hire police officers. So there were like thirty
thousand a piece just to put them through training and
cover all the expenses of getting them on the rolls.
Well attached with that grant is the money would stay
with the department if that if that officer stayed on
ninety days, but if they left before ninety days, they
had to give the remainder of the money back. They
forfeited it. Day ninety of my training, I got pulled
into the Sheriff's office. Everything had been going fine and
I had not gotten in any trouble or anything like that,
you know. I mean, I'm a new guy, so you know,
learning learning, curve problems. But all I ever got was
positive feedback from my ftos, my field training officers. You're
going to be a good officer, Jeff, you're doing well.
You need to work on this. And this got brought
in this sheriff. I didn't really know anything about him
other than he was pretty liberal. Said Jeff, you're going
to be a good officer, but just not here. You
don't fit in. And I already knew that was the case.
I was a Christian and I didn't know any other
Christians on the department at all, and so all of
a sudden I didn't have a job. I went on
to other things. But leading up to what I was saying,
when I was in Grand Junction, Colorado, nine to eleven
took place, and by this time, because I was listening
to Kent Hovend the creation science evangelism evangelists. I was
starting to learn that certain events that happened in the
past weren't as they seemed he taught about the first
thing that really opened my eyes was his teaching about
what took place in Oklahoma City, the Oklahoma City bombing.
He showed he showed evidence like news evidence like video
video from the news that initially when the story broke
that this building had blown up because of improvised explosive
devices that were planted throughout and there were others that
were found that were undetonated. That was the first bit
of news that went out. And then all of a
sudden he shows Kent Hoven showed the shift from that
story to the news story, which was there was a
yellow Rider truck and that had been arrested north of
Oklahoma City by a Perry up in Perry, Oklahoma. Anyway,
I don't know, it was something minor, like he had
his license plate hanging off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly what it was. I think he didn't even
have a license plate. This guy was so smart, but
his getaway car didn't have a license plate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, and it never went back to they completely
shifted the story, and I'm like, that's wicked. That was
my first like, you know, I already knew about you know,
like JFK and stuff. I wasn't really into that. I
just knew that it wasn't as they said that. There's
all these other theories out there, the man on the
Hill and blah blah blah, the grassy knoll. So all
that stuff started to make sense to me. And then
nine to eleven took place. I didn't I didn't think
anything about it, Like it didn't go off in my radar.
I bought the narrative. And a year later, you know,
Department of Homeland Security took off, and you know, the
TSA Transportation Security Administration takes stuff away tough, you know
what a hole. All the acronyms for t s A.
I call them the blue shirt Nazis now because we
we wore a blue uniform. Well, I I applied and
got hired on with them with their first wave because
I wanted to continue my federal service. I thought one
day I'd be a federal cop of some sort. I
know this is rambling, but this is still a part
of my story. It's all. It's all interwoven. It's it's
all about who I am and what I am becoming.
So at that time, law enforcement was still on my
on my sites, you know, in a good way and
a bad way. The good the good part is I
believe that most cops were good and well meaning and
they just want to serve their country, their their their heroes.
Right we have we have police officer worship in this country,
or and veteran worship. We we revere police officers and
veterans and you know, teachers and nurses and doctor and stuff.
So and I was, you know, I was just a
conservative Christian, you know, Republican that bought most of the narrative.
So I wanted to become a cop. TSA was a
stepping stone for that. I got hired on in Montrose, Colorado,
which I transferred to Grand Junction, where I lived, and
I stayed on there for about four and a half years.
And then my in laws, who were who lived in
Grand Junction were going to move back to Arkansas, so
we wanted we wanted to stay close. They were fine
with us like kind of moving with them. So I
got a transfer to Tulsa and they were going to
be in Northwest Arkansas, which was about an hour and
a half away. Well, my transfer went through, I bought
a house, sold my house in Colorado, just hot knife
through butter and everything went through fine. Well, they got
stuck in Colorado. Couldn't leave, they couldn't they couldn't get
it job, they couldn't sell their house all that. So
we got stuck in the Tulsa area, me working at
the TSA in Tulsa for like two years and then
we'd had enough of that. We were on an island,
we didn't know anybody, we didn't have any family or
friends nearby. So you know, in hindsight, I get to
see where God allowed that time for me to become
really close with my dad. And my dad was, you know,
he was a really hard man, angry hard man, and
I got to see a lot of softening towards the
things of God. And he died while I was there.
So that was a gift that the move to Tulsa.
So anyway, another part of the TSA program you probably remember,
they have behavior detection officers the SPOT program, screening passengers
by observation techniques. Yep. Now, yeah, so I became one
of those when the first rolled them out and did
that at Tulsa for a little bit, and then they
opened up a whole bunch of positions for that across
the nation. We moved back to Colorado, went to Colorado Springs.
This is where your your story and my story kind
of crisscross a little bit. So I'm there in Colorado
Springs from two thousand and the end of two thousand
and eight until twenty nineteen, so you were probably there
at that time. Yep. So still working for the TSA,
still growing in Christ. But I would basically classify myself
as a I would say I'm definitely saved, you know,
in Christ, but still deceived on many different things, like
still part of you know, buying the narrative of everything.
But by this time, and now I'm seeing nine to
eleven for what it really was, you know, the documentary
Loose Change that and another small documentary that was made
called Dplane sites plane being spelled like an airplane endplane sight.
So I started watching all these documentaries and I'm like, Dad, gummut,
they did it again, and this is horrible. And of
course by this time, I can't keep my mouth shut.
I'm running my mouth at work. I'm telling everybody I know,
I'm on fire about this whole thing. It's like a
huge cover up. Wolve's been pulled over our eyes. Nothing
is as it seems. They start watching these documentaries by
do you know the name Chris Pento? Okay, Chris Pento.
He has all these like two three four hour documentaries
that start exposing the founding of our nation and the
people who were part of that founding and the secret
societies that they belong to. And so I'm going down
those rabbit holes nine to eleven Illuminati, secret societies, cults
and all their connections, and my mind is being blown.
And of course abortion is always kind of this thing. Well,
twenty twelve is the election with Obama. But at the
time I was trying to go for Santorum. For some reason,
my brain was okay with voting for a Catholic that
had a large family and he had a he had
a son with Down syndrome or special needs, and that
for that very basic reason, I was like, yeah, I
want that guy. Well, he didn't get it. Rodney got it.
And then I'm like, I'm not Mormon, and I don't
mean to hurt the Mormon audience out there, but so
I didn't want a Mormon. I'm a Christian. I'm a
follower of Christ, and I believe there are some true
followers of Rice that are Mormons. But I believe as
a whole, the Mormon Church is not of God. It's
very inception, just like Islam. So I know that's controversial,
but it's truth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it's very controversial for our audience.
We just did a podcast on that, I think two
months ago.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I'm sensitive to to how the things that
I say people and I know that. Yeah, so you know,
tend to lose people when you start talking about certain things. Well,
I had to work through that situation in my brain.
This was this was a pivotal point for me. This
is what this is where I became an abolitionist. And
I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't I
wasn't even aware of that word. Maybe maybe like had
to do a slavery, But that was a long time ago.
So I'm working through this. I'm like, why, he's my choice,
He's the thing, He's the person I have to choose.
You know, I can't choose Obama, and he's the only
other option I have if I want to participate in
this and not participating wasn't an option for me, or
at least I didn't see it as one. So but
during that time and going to the church that I
was going to, which was basically a John MacArthur church,
all the pastors were from the Master Seminary out in California,
where John MacArthur was the president of the Master Seminary
or whatever title it is. He's the head of it.
He founded it, so and he was you know, I eat,
slept and drank. John MacArthur and you know, Paul Washer
and all those guys. So going to this MacArthur Wite church,
very conservative church, very active as far as Bible studies,
doing stuff together as a group, as a community, and
doing things in the community to affect our community. Not
a member but just an attendee, but faithful attendees. My
family and I were. I started side note at the
airport there was a skycap guy who pushes people in
wheelchairs and stuff. He and I became friends. Had a
lot of downtime as a behavior detection officer. We have
free roam at the airport, can go wherever we want,
do whatever we want. Basically, so I spent a lot
of time talking to this guy, the skycap. We hung
out in the same area the airport while we're waiting
to do our job, and he's a Christian and he said,
you know, you know something you would be very good
at is have you ever heard of the Way of
the Master? And I'm like, yeah, now that's not my thing.
That's the Way of the Master Ray Comfort teaching how
to evangelize people, how to share the Gospel with people
by using the law and the Gospel, and I just
I remembered a pastor of mine from before who was
doing that, and I just it scared me, like it
was too like you had to have good knowledge of
a good grasp of things, and I didn't feel comfortable.
So I just felt like that wasn't my calling and
that wasn't what God made me to do. I'd talk
about other things, and he said, but you'd be very
good at it, and you ought to try it well.
I took his advice, went online that night and looked
up a video on the Way of the Master, and
I was hooked. I was like, this is easy. This
is like showing people, you know, asking people basically if
you're a good person most people would think they are,
and they answer yes, and then you actually take them
through the law of God and show them where they're
actually not a good person. And if God were to
judge them based on their answers, would they be found
innocent or guilty on the day of judgment? And honest,
you know, humble person usually answers that they'd begin and
then you share the Gospel with them. Well, so I
started doing that, and then I got involved with a
group who was actually going out on the streets and
doing that, and that was a very exciting time. And
because of that, I joined social media for the first time.
I hated it before this because my wife was always
on it and that was like her second husband and
she was always on like MySpace and then Facebook and
all that. But the street evangelists that I was with,
they said you ought to get involved with on Facebook,
connect with other like minded believers. And I did it reluctantly,
but it was very eye opening because I started with
really serious Christians who take who are taking their faith
seriously and putting their faith into action. They were Now
my feed was full of that and only that, and
so I'm I'm looking at all these amazing things. And
one thing I'm seeing being done or people or going
to the places where babies are actually being killed and
they're trying to rescue them. They're trying to rescue the women,
thus rescuing the baby. So they're outside of these abortion
I don't like calling them clinics because a clinic is
like a good place.
Speaker 3: We call them a hospital or something that where it's
pro health, where that's the exact opposite.
Speaker 4: So we call them kill mills or abortion mills, the
baby murder place, you know, whatever you want to call it.
Just from a biblical worldview, it's where you go to
murder your baby. And so unlike most murders that take place,
or murders that were on my radar, you don't you
know when these murders are taking place, you know where
they're taking place, you know when they're taking place, and
who's doing it. And so it just makes sense that
you would be there to intervene, to interpose, interposes, to
stand in between, you know, an evil intentioned person and
their intended victim. You interpose, you stand in between. So
that made sense to me, and I was like, we
have one of those in Colorado Springs. We have a
planned parenthood, and we have a big planned parenthood in
Denver anyway, So started doing that. Back to Romney, I
started seeing clips on social media how he says he's
pro life, like he was a Democrat. He passed Romneycare,
and part of Romneycare was I mean, underneath his leadership
as a governor, Romneycare paid for abortions up to twenty
six weeks gestation well passed byability. And I was just like, well,
he's not I don't care what he says. He's not
pro life. I can't vote for him. Talk about a
triggering thing to tell your friends who are very political,
even the good ones who are out on the streets
preaching the gospel, but they're very political too. Is that, Jeff,
you don't have a choice. If you don't vote for Rodney,
then you're voting for Obama. And I'm like, I don't
understand your reasoning. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm
not voting for either. I'm not giving my support to
either of them. He says, yeah, but that helps the decide.
We don't want to win win that, I say, he
somebody in particular. But I had a lot of people
telling me that like, this is just the world we
live in, Jeff. You have to vote for the lesser
of two evils, otherwise it just keeps getting worse and
worse and worse. And I'm thinking to my mind, like
I think, if we keep voting for the lesser of
two evils, it's going to continue to keep getting worse
and worse and worse. That's what's going on in my brain,
but I can't express it. And so back to social media.
One day, I'm sitting on my couch in Colorado, spring
day off, and I'm reading this post from a woman.
She's the wife of a street evangelists that I've been
out on the streets with. He's very popular in the
street preaching reform circles. And she quotes this person on here.
It's like this brilliant post, and it encapsulates this whole idea,
this whole conundrum that I'm having with trying to trying
to justify participating in this election knowing what we know.
I can't even recall like everything that was said, but
it was so impactful I jumped up off of the
couch like I hit a word, and I jumped up
off the couch and ran into the kitchen and told
my wife, I said, look at this, I think I
know what we are. It's it makes me laugh to
this day because it was so like it was just
an innocent discovery, and I said, I think we're abolitionists
because somebody defined it, put a word to it. Like
the thing that I was feeling. I couldn't do this
evil thing over here, which was vote for a known
evil person, even though he was like on the right side, supposedly,
they just couldn't. I couldn't do it. And it took
the abortion situation to make this very clear to me
that I've been voting for the lesser of two evils
and promoting the lesser of two evils, which is an
unbiblical idea. It is a compromise idea, and not a
good compromise. But it's easy to justify it in your mind,
especially in your echo chambers, when you have very solid,
well meaning Christians that are solid in their lives, that
you know lead good, sound lives. But in this one area,
they're doing this thing and perpetuating a bad system. And
so at the end of that social media post she
quoted who it was from. It was hyperlinked and it said,
t Russell Hunter, abolitionist. You know, I touched on that
name right away, sent the guy a friend request. He
accepted my friend request, and then all of a sudden,
I got gang piled by a bunch of a bunch
of people. I had no idea who they were friend
requests coming out of the out of the woods, and
they were starting to private message me and send me
things to watch and read. And these were the abolitionists.
I felt like I had entered into a cult or something.
And we kind of make we joke about it that
we are a cult. I mean we are, but we're
you know, it's a I'm the cult of Jesus Christ.
So and they even had a symbol. I'm like, that's weird,
but it was cool at the same time. But it
opened my eyes and and all of a sudden I
found my people, people that had gone through all the
same things that I had gone through, separately, completely separately,
not attached to each other. We had gone through the
same process and wound up finding each other through social media.
And those were the Abolitionists. We had a website. I
say when I say we we have a website, somebody
else did all that, but we own it collectively the
idea and abolish human abortion dot com on all the
social media platforms. Abolish human abortion we were Let me
let me just tell you what abolitionism is is that
abolitionism is a doctrine that's found only in the scriptures,
only within the inspired Word of God. Can you can
you find abolitionism because it is just biblical Christianity and
so but you can go through you know, you've got
Calvinism and Armenianism and all these other isms that you
can you can find throughout scriptures, and people will, you know,
teach on those doctrines, whether right or wrong. Abolitionism is
another doctrine, another teaching that you can extrapolate from the scriptures.
It's a consistent thing. Of course, it's consistent because God
is consistent. He doesn't, you know, deny himself, he doesn't
contradict himself, and so it's consistent all the way through
the scriptures, this thread of an uncompromising spirit to promote
God's kingdom in this earth. And so abolitionism is the
removal of evils from our culture, from our society, and
it's also a removal of evils from your own life.
So abolitionism is just repentance. That's what abolitionism is. It's repentance,
whether it be on a personal level or a national level.
And so that all that stuff started to make sense
to me. Abolitionism it takes place in two different modes,
agitation and assistance. So there are people out there that
like to become agitators in a negative sense. They're you know,
the the screaming street preachers or protesters, you know, the Antifa,
they're they're agitators. Yeah, yeah, in a negative sense, but
can be an agitator in a good in a good sense,
though a lot of people will see it in a
negative way. You know. You know, it's inside a washing machine,
you know, the kind that are top loaders, and they
got this thing in the middle. Yeah, it's an agitator.
It doesn't it doesn't introduce dirt into the clothing. You know,
it gets it out, It helps gets it out. You
put in some water and you put in a solvent,
and that agitator is going to beat those clothes, you know,
stir those clothes, and it's going to get the dirt out.
And that's what the profits have always been, that's what
the apostles were that's what salt and Light throughout all
of history has been. They've been the agitators of their world.
They've they've come in and they've turned the world upside down,
you know. So they've done this. But you know there's
a verse. Maybe you could tell me what it is.
I can't remember. I have a lot of the Word
of God inside of me, but I don't always know
where it's at. But you know, we're supposed to stir
each other up to love and good deeds, to love
and good works. You know, that's you're agitating. You're stirring
you know, people up. So that's what the abolitionist movement
does is that's one of our modes is agitation, and
that's through sharing the gospel, that's through seeding our culture
with information, and and then we have assistants. So we
don't want to leave out the assistance part because you know,
Christ was compassionate toward the center. He was very hard
on the religious, you know, prideful people, but he was
he was very he was very compassionate toward the center.
And that's what that's what we that's what we're bringing
in to our work is not only agitation, but assistance
as well. So we are out there offering our our everything,
all of our substance at abortion clinics. And it's not
it's not just at abortion clinics. I mean it's it's
there are people sitting in the pews of most churches
that are actively killing their children through taking pills. I
mean it's going on. They're raising their hands in worship
and they're taking pills to either keep from having babies
or to kill the one that's inside of them while
they praise God. Abortion is taking place everywhere all the time. Now,
It's not just that these nasty abortion clinics that are
you know, where babies are being cut into pieces. It's
taking place everywhere, even in the church. So you had
a guest on your other show. Her name was b Yeah,
and she was Yeah. And one big thing that she
deals with her KIM trails and vaccines and all stuff.
And she's going around leaving literature everywhere. Like she was
talking about how she was putting you know, little cards
and trifles and stuff into like baby wipes and you know,
diaper diaper boxes and all that kind of stuff. Well, see,
she's probably an abolitionist and doesn't know it. And what
I mean is is whether she sees abortion rightly or not,
I don't know. But she's using principles that just make
She's made in the image of God. God has commanded
his followers to love him and love their neighbor. And
when you put these principles into action, you can't say
that you love God if you don't love your neighbor.
That's how you prove that you actually love God is
through love of neighbor. And she's trying to reach people
she doesn't even know, and she's doing it out of
love for those people to try to rescue. That's what
Jesus' name basically means is rescue. He's salvation is to rescue,
so we should be rescuers. Well, she's going out and
trying to rescue people from the pain that is being
caused by this world that we lived in, through vaccinations
and the poison and you know, just all of that.
Most of the listeners here know what I'm talking about. Well,
we have a name for that. We're seeding the culture.
We're doing the same thing that b is doing. We
have what we call drop cards. They're you know, business
sized cards that have you know, sometimes pictures and you know,
like biblical information on one side and a website on another.
You know, all kinds of stuff, and you can just
imagine as we're with abortion. We we do use graphic imagery,
so you might have graphic images that a picture says
a thousand words. It's basically the law of God and
picture form, Thou shalt not murder. That speaks to the
conscience of the person. Every person that looks at it,
they can't help it. They're made in the image of God.
They're going to see it. Thou shalt not murder. It's
a reminder, a constant reminder. We're putting this throughout our nation.
We're doing what be does. We go in and put
them inside beer cases and you know, clothing in the
pockets of clothes that people are going to buy, and
bags and just anywhere that we can put it, and
we put it out in the open. We're we're seeding
the culture with what we call drop cards or just
various literature. Okay, went off on a tangent.
Speaker 3: Before you go on, let me interject a few things
real quick if I can. The first time, most important
thing is you mentioned Genesis one twenty seven. God created
man in his own image or imago day. So you know,
that's one of the I think abolitionism when it first
started becoming a name that was used often, I think
was the eighteen hundreds, and that's what they said, We're
made in God's God's image, and you're destroying his image.
And the other verse you had mentioned, I think it's
Hebrews ten twenty four and twenty five. It says, let
us consider one another to provoke unto love and to
good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as
the matter of some is, but exhorting one another. And
so much the more see the day approaching. And then
another point I wanted to make was words are important,
because you know they talk about abortion being you know,
women's healthcare, and you know how they you know, made
and everything is dignity, and how they you know, everything
that is poison in the world, whether it's vaccines or abortion,
and how they are wordsmiths to make it sound like
they're doing something noble when you're having conversations with these people,
Like during the course of the last fifteen minutes of
you talking, you weren't mincing words. You were saying exactly
what is happening to these babies, and a lot of
people were cringing, and I'm sure a lot of people
maybe even tuned out. But that's you can't sugarcoat something
as diabolical as what's going on. It's important that we
use the words that they're actually using. Not healthcare, right,
not not women's healthcare or things of that nature. It's
straight up murder. So it's important that we use these words.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, you know, abortion care. They take all these things, well,
just what is abortion? I mean that law enforcement, military,
we use that term a lot. Abort, you know, you
leave it behind you, you end it, you end your mission. Well,
when you abort something, you don't abort something that's not
alive or else it wouldn't be an abortion. Yeah, they
call you know, spontaneous abortion. That's not something where somebody
intended to end the life of a child that's in
nature taking its course. That's disease, the disease state in
this world that ended the life of that child. But
it wasn't the willful intention, the malice of forethought of
another human being ending the life of their child or
somebody else's child. So, you know, abortion, and we just
have to use biblical terms, because you know, just because
I believe the Bible doesn't mean it's true. It stands
on its own evidence, It stands on its own authority,
and like it or not, things, certain things are just true,
whether we believe them or not. Just so happens that
the Bible has plenty of evidence to prove in every
area you can study it, that it is true and factual.
Even though some of our translations are, you know, not
quite right, the truth still comes through. God is still God,
and he has preserved his word. And so we have
to talk in biblical terms. Abortion as murder. Everyone knows it.
Everyone does. Even who denies it to your face and
will argue with you and will never admit it, they
know it. Romans chapter one says very plainly that they
know that God is real. I'm just paraphrasing. Everyone knows.
He's made himself very clear and very plain that he
exists through his creation. Everyone knows that God is real.
He's written his law in their hearts. They're made in
his image. And that's just so. That is something that
we have to do, is we have to speak the truth. Yes,
we have to speak it in love, but speaking truth
is love. That's that is love, and some of us
have to work on our delivery. So yeah, agitation and assistance.
That was kind of what I was talking about. You
can't you can't just do one. You have to do both.
You have to be part of if if you know
where evil is taking place nearby you, you have to
do something about it. You can't just ignore it. And
you can't hide behind well, that's not my calling, because
that's Christian Eese, George, you probably I'm probably preaching to
the choir about about this stuff. But people hide behind
the words. Well, that's not my calling. My special calling
is this, Well that we've learned to speak this way.
In church culture, we have commands and we have been
commanded to love our neighbor as ourself, and so everything
falls into either loving God or loving your neighbor. All
of life does everything that you do, and so there's
a command to love your neighbor as yourself. When somebody
is being murdered nearby you, you can you know, most
of us don't know when murders are taking place, with
the exception of baby murder. And I don't know exactly
what the statistics is, but I think it's three out
of five women have had abortions. That does that is
just insane.
Speaker 3: And for those who claim they follow Christ and champion
abortion or say, you know, it's it's up, you know,
between the woman and God. You know, most people acknowledged
the da Dash was written. Most scholars believe it was
written right about the same time Revelation was eighty five
ninety five AD. So at this point they understood the gospel.
Jesus was the Lamb. We're not sacrificing people anymore. However,
the Romans, they were still pagan and they were still
doing that. So they mentioned specifically in chapter two of
the Dadash that thal shalt not murder a child by
abortion or kill them when born. And that is acknowledged
by most ninety nine percent of all Christian scholars. That
was written, you know, right about the same time as Revelation.
And so for all the people who try to skate
on while it doesn't specifically say even though the Bible
clearly says we're made in God's image and thal shalt
not kill. But for those people who like to play
the matrix dodging the bullets, you know, because it doesn't
conform to their way of living, that did Dash you know,
it's clear about its stance on abortion or infanticide.
Speaker 4: As they say, yeah, exactly. And you know, if people
are going to use the Bible to like justify certain things,
you hear all kinds of crazy justifications. People start reaching
into the Bible and trying to justify this or that.
When we're when we're out on the streets trying to
talk to people about this. We go out with signs,
we have conversations with people. We'll go to the bar districts,
we go to the universities, we go to the high schools,
even middle schools and things like that. We try to
have conversations with people. People start reaching into their bag
of tricks and pulling out Bible versus, and of course
it's out of context, but they start justifying, you know,
abortion through all kinds of different wicked means. But the
truth is, it's just like you said, man is made
in God's image. Genesis two seven talks about we're not
allowed to kill an innocent person. Noah was told when
he got off the art, this is what's now going
to take place. You know, now all the animals are
going to be scared of you. You can eat them.
The fear of man is going to be put in you. Eventually.
He tells Noah that if even if an animal kills
a man says by man that animal must it's blood
must be shed because man is made in God's image.
It's the image of God the AMaGA day that's important here.
It's not just because babies are cute and cuddly and
smell good and all that. They don't always smell good,
but sometimes they do. They just have this natural good smell.
It's not because of that. And we're not just out
trying to save babies. We're out representing our King, who
tells us, who gave us a commandment, and we're not
supposed to be murdering innocent people. Yes, I do believe
in the death penalty. That is not the same as
murdering somebody. Is God's just punishment for a capital crime
that God has already predefined. And so and murder is
one of them. Murder killing somebody that doesn't deserve the
death penalty with malice a forethought and you think it
through and you carry it out. There's no more you know,
fitting description of what takes place during an abortion. So anyway,
there's a lot more to say about abolitionism. But what
has taken place since I became an abolitionist while you
were there? My wife and I started the Abolitionist Society
of Colorado Springs. I still run that, you know, that
YouTube page, that Facebook page, because there's no one else
that has taken it over there. There are other kind
of like minded people over there, but I'm happy to
hand that over to somebody else. So if you want
to contact me and take over the the work that's
been started in Colorado Springs, you know, feel free to
contact me anyway. After moving to Oklahoma, or actually while
we were living in Colorado twenty sixteen, as we're doing
all this abolitionist stuff, which is, you know, we're going
out on the streets, we're going to the abortion clinic,
We're going to the churches to stir them up to
love and good deeds. We're also going to these conferences
and missions that the other abolitionists are having. And one
big mission that happened, and it was the first time
that a bill of complete and total immediate abolition was
put in legislation form was here in Oklahoma in twenty sixteen.
There's a whole story behind that, but Basically, we put
this forward and pro life governor, pro life House, pro
life Senate, so super majority, they sheltered it. They would
not let it be heard. That has been the story
of I don't know if what the number is now,
seventeen or eighteen different states have been regularly putting bills
of abolition for abortion, criminalizing it. Equal justice, the laws
against murder are applied to now what you would do
to a preborn child. So if in another scenario, if
you were to scheme and plot and conspire with somebody
to kill somebody else, you know, the murderer and the
conspirators are held liable, and you know justices meeted out
that way. Well, now just apply that to abortion. So
everybody that's involved in that situation is now held responsible
for what's going on. So the abolitionists are not just
out trying to kill women who kill their babies. That's
a thing that gets thrown at us. We're just seeking
to honor God and his law. Like everything should be
submitted to God's law. All of our laws should be
in tandem with the law of God. Should not contradict,
and it does. And so the pro life legislators that
ran on pro life bills, and this is happening in
all of these states where bills of abolition are being presented.
The ones who are running on pro life platforms saying
vote for me on pro life, We're going to do
something about abortion, we're going to restrict abortion, we're going
to end abortion, and all that. When they're given the
opportunity and they have it spoon fed to them by
one of their colleagues, the governor, the controllers, the gatekeepers,
they put people at the head of committees. Those committee
heads will not let the bills be heard. They don't
want to go on the record for criminalizing abortion, so
they shell them, they silence them, They will not let
them go forward. The pro life organizations also the professional
pro life lobbyists, and I could name names, I could
name organizations. It's the place. It's the people that you
get the emails from saying please donate, we have this
thing coming up. You know, seven dollars saves the life
of three children or whatever. You know, those types of
schemes they rake in millions. These pro life activists and
lobbyists are perpetuating abortion. It's not the other way around.
It's not the pro death, pro abortion lobbyists and politicians
that are keeping abortion legal. They don't have to do anything.
They don't have to put a forward a bill that
says this is when you're gonna kill a baby, because
the pro life Christian conservative politicians are actually writing the laws.
And I can guarantee you this is going on in
other arenas, like other things that deal with the environment
and just any other topic you could bring. It's it's
these the good, the supposed good people, the good politicians,
the supposed ones that are that are doing it. They're
keeping things the way they are because it keeps them
in power. It keeps them, you know, where they can receive,
you know, accolades, be heroes that they they did a
little bit. But you know, if we were like Moses,
we wouldn't live in the kind of world that we
live in now. Moses was a sinner, and he was
severely disciplined by God. But he was also very faithful
to God in many ways. And when he when he
came out of Egypt, and after he established his family,
and then he went over and he met Yahweh in
the burning bush, and y always telling them what he's
to do, and he's to go back to Pharaoh in
Egypt and tell Pharaoh to let his people go. He
fights with God. He wrestles with God a little bit
that he eventually agrees to do it. God gives him
signs that I will be with you, and he agrees
to go. And he says, who am I supposed to say?
Sent me? And God tells him, tell him, I am
sent you. Yep, that is self existent one. This title
the self existent One sent you, like superseding all other gods.
So he does this, and he goes to Pharaoh, and
you know the story. He tells him to let his
people go. He refuses, Pharaoh hardens his heart. Then later
God hardens his heart. This goes back and forth and
all the judgments judging the gods of Egypt, and he
continues to give him signs that he means business. He
never takes Pharaoh's deal. Pharaoh is telling them, Okay, you
can take the men and they can go out in
the desert and worship your God, but everybody else has
to say He says, nope, everybody's going, So then he
has to give his judgment and then comes back, Okay,
you can take the men and women and the children.
He's trying to make a deal. The pro lifers, the
politicians take these deals. Every time Moses doesn't take the deal,
he says, not one hoof is going to be left
in Egypt. So you know what ends up taking place.
The death Angel comes Israel. However, many millions and all
of their belongings, everything, and half the wealth of Egypt
probably left Egypt because he didn't take the deal. He
didn't deal with the devil. He was an abolitionist. This
is part of our abolitionist doctrine, is that you don't
do evil, even a little bit of it. If good,
if you think good may come from it, you can
justify it. And either there's a way that seems right
to a man. But the end is death and and
it and it rolls down usually upon the fatherless, upon
the widows and the orphans. All this stuff rolls down
upon them. Isaiah one says, you know, woe to those
who enact iniquitous decrees. I don't know about you, but
I never want to hear God tell me woe to you.
That is it's a terrifying thing. It's it's as terrifying
as to hear depart from me, you worker of lawlessness.
I never knew that, so to hear woe, and Jesus
said that to the Pharisees and the scribes, woe to
you scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites. He didn't mince words with them.
He said exactly what it was. He promised their judgment.
He told them their judgment was coming, and it came.
But he also told them way ahead of time. And
because they didn't listen to the Father, they didn't recognize
him when he came. We as abolitionists, we Christians, need
to be abolitionists. We don't need to be pro life
anymore saying that we're pro life. I am pro life,
that I have a pro life opinion. I am for life,
but I don't identify as a pro lifer. I don't
tell people I'm pro life. I tell people what I
am because it tells people what I do. I tell
people I'm an abolitionist, especially in the context of abortion.
But it deals with all evil human trafficking just named
the evil. Abolitionism will cover it, and if you apply abolitionism,
it can end it and God will get the glory.
The abolitionist movement is God's centered. We understand that the
tip of the spear is the gospel of Jesus Christ,
the fact that God became a man. God gave commands
to man. Two, this is how you can be reconciled
to me. And he gave them different ways to do
that throughout time, with an ultimate end in mind. From
the beginning that they failed, they said, ah, well, we'll
do some of that, but we're also going to do
this over here with this guy Moloch and Moloch and
Bale and all that. So they dabbled in all that
kind of stuff. They were, they were faithless, they were,
and then they would repent and God would bring them
back in. But after going through this whole plan, it
was necessary. God said, I am going to enter time
and space. And guess where He did this in the
womb of a woman who wasn't even a expected to
be with child. He had no reason to be with child.
She had never been with a man, This miraculous prophesied.
Event he enters the womb of a woman, guess what happens.
She took out immediately on a journey to go tell
her cousin Elizabeth, who was also pregnant, who shouldn't be pregnant,
who was also a miraculous pregnancy. This is kind of
like an Abraham and Sarah's story is is Sarah's husband
not Sarah Elizabeth's husband? Is that Zechariah Zachariah. I can't remember.
He's a he's a he's a priest. Well, six months
before this, she was visited or he or her husband
was visited by Gabriel told that your your wife is
going to have a son their past, you know, child
bearing years. He doesn't believe him, He doubts, so the
angel mutes him, silences him for during the pregnancy he
can't speak, so he can't do any of his duties.
He told him, you're gonna name him John Missus Mary's
cousin Elizabeth. So six months into her pregnancy, that's when
Gabriel visits Mary says, you're highly favored among women, that
the God of the universe is gonna come into your womb,
and uh, basically, God's gonna become a man through you,
and you're gonna you're gonna bear this Messiah. You're gonna
bear the the answer to the entire world's problem in
human form. And she believes, and she sings a song
and she heads out for Elizabeth, and it's a if
scholars are right, it's about a five day journey. So
during this time, this dangerous travel, Jesus is forming. Sell
the creator of the Cosmos, is developing as a human being,
forming five days old, probably in the phillopian tube. And
when she gets to Elizabeth and she speaks to Elizabeth,
the baby in her womb, John leaps the very first
person to recognize Jesus, John the bath is a baby
in the womb. That blows my mind. Yeah, so anyway,
and says she was with child. It doesn't say she
was with you know, blasticist or zygote or fetus or anything.
Fetus just means little one or offspring or child. Baby.
That's all it means. But we like to use those
terms because it dehumanizes them in our brain. People out
on the streets, and it's just the fetus. It's just
the clump of cells. The body inside you know, you know,
my my choice. Well, the body inside your body is
not your body. Somebody else's. The imago day lives inside
of you. So the God of the universe comes into
this world. He's gone through every stage of life that
we've ever gone through. He's been through every temptation that
we've ever been through. That means if he looked at
a woman, he probably was tempted, if he was put
in situations where he was tempted to sin, but he didn't.
He never did. It says that he was tempted in
all ways liked us, yet without sin. So they couldn't
fulfill the righteousness of God through the law in all
the different ways that God had given them before. So
now God becomes the solution. He becomes fully human to
live as we were supposed to live, to live the
perfect life, a sinless life that we couldn't on our behalf.
And yet what happens to him in the end is
that this is the this is the thing. It seems
like a huge injustice, and it is, but it's also
the chess the chess game of the of the eons yep.
Is that through his death, through the murder of Christ.
You know, really no man took the life. Jesus laid
his life down, but there was a whole murder plot
that went behind it, and everybody's going to get their
just payment for that. But through all that, if he
had told everybody what his death would accomplish, they anything
and everything within their power to keep it from happening.
They had to put him in a in a locked
cell somewhere, you know, nobody could touch him, keep them
in here for a long time. But or they you know,
they tried, they the devil tried to give him the
kingdoms of the world. They tried doing all kinds of
things to make him to feed his ego as a human,
but he didn't buy any of it. He came to die,
That's what he came to the God of the universe,
enter time and space as a human being, yet not
giving up his godhood, and he purchased eternity for us
through his death. And that all who look upon that
bronze serpent, that fiery serpent that was lifted on high,
were healed. You look upon Jesus on the cross, trusting
in what he accomplished. There the fact that the sinless
son of God died in our place. And you trust
in that, and you believe that his righteousness will be
credited to you. Because he took on our sin. He
swoppted places with us. But death had no hold on
him because he was sinless. It says the wages of
sin is death. He did not sin, therefore he would
not remain dead. He did not see corruption. On the
third day he rose, there were over five hundred witnesses.
He said many things, had many interactions with people, and
he told him to go forward and do likewise. You know,
he gave us our marching orders. We have a king
and we're to go and do likewise. He is the abolitionist.
He abolished sin and death. Yep. And that's why Christians
need to be abolitionists and not just pro life. Because
you're by being pro life and listening to your talking
heads and all these famous people that are supposedly fighting
abortion yet making millions while doing it and receiving the
accolades and the praise of men. The abolitionists are out
here saying we are going to abolish abortion without compromise,
in the name of Jesus Christ, to the glory of
God alone.
Speaker 3: Okay, So number one is you know, we're talking about Jesus.
He's the lamb, he bears the weight. And I think
it's something that we should address during this podcast, is
that a woman who maybe in her life when she
was younger, who had an abortion, if she does come
to him in repentance and faith, she will be forgiven
and while she can't change the past, she can certainly
lend a voice to maybe help it from occurring to
a younger person in the future. What are your thoughts
on that.
Speaker 4: You're nailing it? We one of our signs, I mean,
we encapsulate a lot of our ideas into like three
foot by four foot signs that we take out on
the streets. Forgiveness for the sin of abortion can be
found in Jesus Christ alone. There is no other forgiveness,
is there. All of us, like Paul said, and such
were some of you. We have, all of us have
horrible things in our past. Those who are redeemed in
Christ have done wicked things. And yes, a murder can
be forgiven, and yes you can't do anything about you
can't go back in time and stop. But many other
people can benefit from your previous failings and huge failings.
That we live in a world of deception. That's why
your podcast even exists. And so you know, we're here
trying to wake people up to what the enemy is doing.
And he tells you that you can't be forgiven. He
makes you feel guilty. He continues to remind you that
you cannot be forgiven. This is too. You went too far,
but that is not true. David murdered his best friend.
He betrayed his best friend. He you know, committed adultery
on his best friend, then had his best friend murder.
Paul was murdering Christians, these were redeemed. We are going
to be in the Kingdom of God with those, gentlemen,
those are our brothers. You if you have killed your
baby through abortion, there is forgiveness in Christ alone. What
you must do is confess your sin. This is with anything,
but specifically with abortion. You must confess that what you
did was murder, that you intentionally ended the life of
your child so that your life could continue on. That
is child sacrifice. And we've all been guilty of this
on one level or another, through taking pills or doing
all sorts of things that we shouldn't we shouldn't do
to our bodies. We've unintentionally ended the life, ended the
life of children within our wives wounds or our wounds.
You must confess your sin before God, ask for his forgiveness,
and he will. He will forgive, but it's only found
through Christ. There is no mediator given among men except
Christ Jesus. He is the only door pathway, gate avenue
to God, the Father to eternity. With him, it's through
Jesus Christ. It's through his death, through his resurrection, we
can be reconciled to God. So if you have killed
or participated in the killing of a child, confess this
to God and then tell people about it. Most I
shouldn't say most, but a lot of the women that
are involved in the abolitionist movement are post abortive. They've
killed their children and some of them have killed many.
And God, wo come up. They bowed the knee, they surrendered,
they gave their life to Christ, and they used their
worst sin as a platform to help rescue others. They
were allowed to. God is sovereign. God is incocomplete control.
He could stop anything if he wants. But he does
allow evil to take place, and the responsible part are
going to face judgment for that. And it's not just
people who commit it, it's people who don't do anything
about it. It's a whole network. But God uses sinners
to further his kingdom. That's just what he does. You
see it all through the scriptures.
Speaker 3: Yeah, most of the guys that most of the men
that He uses his disciples. You mentioned Paul Saul, you
know he was there when Steven was killed. We're broken men,
and that's the story of all of us. We were young,
we made poor. I mean, your story and my story
perfectly aligned. I had a very tough stretch in the nineties.
And as you get older, you get wiser. The same
with the ladies who have you know, made that decision.
They get older, they get wiser. There's something called regret.
But you can't spend your entire life. You know, I
get emails all the time. Do you regret being in
the army? Do you regret being in combat? Listen, I
can't not change. And God takes us on these paths
for a certain reason. It gave me wisdom. It gave
me the understanding to look back now and see how
the world truly operates. Whereas if I would have been
a plumber or a mason or a computer tech, I
would have I'd be clueless on it. But that's the
journey He took me on it. And that kind of
segues into this. You mentioned John MacArthur earlier, and you
know he was a man tu sinner, just like Martin Luther.
I don't like to hold men up on pedestals. But
this book I keep on my desk at all times
is called Can God Bless America? You get it on
eBay for ten bucks. It fits right in your cargo
pocket like used to in your BDUs. And it's interesting
because it's America in a nutshell. We say God Bless America,
but we allow abortion. Now, we have assisted suicide, and
I think twenty states. We're taxed on our property, usury,
all the things that the Bible talks against. But yet
we're one nation under the God because we're blessed because
we have all of these nice things. Well we have
all of these nice things because of the way we operate,
you know, with Fiat currency and everything else and usury.
Speaker 4: And you know, I.
Speaker 3: Always say, somebody who listens to me the first time,
you sound like a bleeding heart liberal. And that's because
you still live in this realm where you can only
be one or the other, and you have to break
that matrix and say no, if it's wrong, it's wrong.
I don't care if you know the right team says
it or the left teams says it. And this is
a perfect segue to two things. Number one, the difference
between pro life and abolitionism. Right, you mentioned that it's secular,
it's lobbyists driven. Send us seven dollars where abolitionists and
again going back to God bless America? Can God bless America?
When a secular law crosses the law of God. It's
every Christian's duty to stand up, not to type something
on social media and say I don't like this to
especially if you're a man, you need to stand your
butt up and say this is wrong.
Speaker 4: Yeah. What we have a lot happening a lot now
are the women are rising up. And if you know
your Bibles, God raised up women as a judgment, Deborah
is It is a perfect example. Women and children, women
in the youth are having to rise up when the
men won't. I was I was guilty of that when
when I was able bodied but wouldn't do anything. You know, God,
God would use the category of people that he shouldn't
have to use. So the women are rising up to
do what the men should be doing. That's that's why
we have a lot of female pastors, That's why we
have a lot of female politicians. And the men should
be doing that. Men have all should be leading their homes,
they should be leading their communities. They should be leading
whatever form of government that we have, but doing it rightly.
But they won't, so God will use the category of
person that shouldn't be doing that as a judgment. So, yes,
there is a difference between being an abolitionist and being
pro life. Pro life is actually the pro life movement
is actually what's keeping abortion legal and healthy. And actually
in Oklahoma where they had a trigger bill set up
to where if roe versus Weighed was ever overturned, this
law would go into effect. And now that's what we
have as we have a law that shut down all
the abortion clinics. Women cannot go to a place and
pay for somebody to kill their child, but they can
do it on their own. They can go on live television,
live social media, nine months pregnant, They could go in
the governor's office and take a sledgehammer and beat their
child to death. As long as they're the one that
does it, and they don't, the law recognizes it as murder,
but she will not be prosecuted for only the woman.
The mother has special murder rights. So that's the case
in a bunch of mostly Southern states. And now what
you can do is you can get an abortion pill
that you used to just have to go to the
abortion clinic four and it's a two phase situation. They
give you a pill, it starts to starve the baby,
and then the baby ends up dying, and then they
give you another pill to have you pass the baby.
And women are just doing this and having abortions at home.
That the abortion numbers have skyrocketed over and above what
they were before abortion was allowed to take place in
abortion clinics. So we're abolitionists. We're not trying to cut
down on abortion numbers. We're trying to glorify God. That
God may be glorified, his law may be honored in
our laws, in our lives. We should not be tolerating
these evils. We should be a voice against it. We're
going to be held accountable based on our knowledge and
our proximity to it. That's found evident in a principle
in Deuteronomy chapter twenty one, where a man was found
laying dead in the field and no one know who
killed him. So they brought the leaders of two of
the nearest villages to that site where the murder took place.
They had to testify that they did not know who
did it, their eyes didn't see it. They had to
sacrifice an unworked heifer. It died in the place of
the murder, and they had to take a vow that
they didn't know about it. We can't do that today,
None of us can, no Christian, no politician can say
we didn't know. So God is demonstrating through that passage
that through knowledge and proximity to the evils going on
around you, God is going to hold us accountable, each
accountable for what they did or did not do. Yeah,
Jesus said it. He says, what you did to the
least of these, you did to me, And he said
what you did not do for the least of these,
you did not do for me. He doesn't give you
a way out. He tightens the law in every way.
And so the Church is going to be held most
responsible for what's going on. The Church is the group
of people on this earth that have been given the
gifts and the power to bring about the Kingdom of God,
to make sure that God is being honored in this earth,
that our neighbors are being loved and cared for, and
thus God is being honored. The Church is going to
be held accountable. Our world is in the mess that
it's in because throughout time and history, the people of God,
the people who claim Christ as their as their savior,
as their king, were disobedient Him. They did not use
the talents that they were given. That's right. So we
have to use the gifts and talents that we're given.
But we do not need to confuse our gifts and
talents with commands by God. You can do multiple things
at the same time, George, you're a homesteader, you're a
homeschool father, you're a husband, you're going through seminary, you're
doing all sorts of things, and you run two podcasts.
You're multitasking. You're doing many things at once. But I
guarantee you if you knew that across the street from
your homestead that somebody was scheduled to die, you'd be there. Absolutely.
The churches are negligent, and they have to recognize that
they are not doing what's necessary and what's consistent with
what they claim they believe. They have to take their
beliefs they are beliefs about abortion and everything else and
put them into action. The people who know their God
will rise up and take action. That's what Daniel Well said.
Speaker 3: Well said, and all the links are going to be
in the show notes Abolitionists Rising. The petitions are on there,
the dates are on there when certain gatherings are there
the Gospel. They have a store as well if you
want to support them. Abolitionist Rising dot com also the
YouTube channel abolitionist Rising. Three hundred and sixty three thousand
subscribers yep top videos just about a million views. Go ahead,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: We just passed one million followers on all of our
platforms the other day. That's awesome. That's awesome. They're they're
doing amazing things out of Norman, Oklahoma. There's a group
of guys there that are you know, they're they're not
highly paid. You know, they're not raking in the bucks.
I mean, we have to do like go fundmes to
help pay for them. So but they're giving their lives
for this cause, for the cause of Christ and doing
wonderful things. So yeah, I echo your words and say, hey,
go to the store, buy you some merchandise, get some shirts,
get some some literature that you can hand out. I mean,
but and and get to know that stuff and believe it,
put it into action, put it into work.
Speaker 3: And if somebody's passionate about this and they feel moved
by the Lord to join and represent a certain area
in the country. What is the best quickest way to
contact someone in the organization.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm happy to funnel you to where you need
to go. But you can find us in our community.
There's a there's an abolitionist, uh, trying to remember if
it's it's it might just be abolitionists rising on discord.
So a lot of people are joining Discord, a lot
of people are being brought in, and we we have
it set up in states and different topics through Discord.
I don't I'm not real familiar with Discord, but I'm not. Yeah,
it's it's confusing, but me too, I'm git better at it.
But that's that's one way. But you know, on any
of the platforms, all social media aspects, you'll find abolitionists
rising on there. You can just comment and and ad
men that keeps an eye on things, they will contact you. Happy,
I'm happy to funnel you to wherever you need But
you know, when when it started for us, when after
we realized the difference between what being an abolitionist was
versus being pro life, then just perpetuating to evil we
were like, can we just start our own society here?
So I asked. I was like asking permission, but they
were like, that's what That's what we were here to do.
Is we're here to you know, spur you to do
something like that. So yes, please started up. And then
you know, they made sure that I was equipped with
knowledge and good information. But yeah, you can do that.
Like I since moving to Oklahoma, I have a good
friend that's in in the Tulsa area. So he's the
director of the Abolitionist Society of Tulsa, and I started
just a YouTube page or a Facebook page called the
Abolitionist Society of Mays County in Ayes And so that's
what we do. And it's kind of like home churches
or home groups. You come together, you have your meetings,
you have fellowship, and then you go out into the
world and you go represent your team. That's awesome.
Speaker 3: I can't thank you enough for your time today, Jeff.
I've got another zoom in a fifteen minutes, I got
a head two. But it's been a great conversation. And
I think one thing is it woke a lot of
people up that have been championing pro life. And I
think this is going to kind of wake them up
to saying we need to take it a step forward
and hopefully, you know, we can wake people up and
make this one nation under God literally, not just something
that we say as a catchphrase. So before we close,
I give you a minute for any closing thoughts or
again if you want to point anybody a certain direction.
Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate your time, George. I told you in
my initial email, I know you well because I listened
to you all the time, so you're like a friend.
But then you know, it's not a reciprocal situation. We
haven't gotten to talk except for today, so I appreciate
what you're doing. I applaud you for continuing to be
faithful with the time and the efforts that the God
has given you, the gifts that He's given you. And
I would just encourage people to you know, if you
are wondering about whether you are right with God, like
you recognize that God is real and maybe you were
in church and you grew up a bunch with a
bunch of hypocrites, and you know that's why you really
want nothing to do with church. Well, I'm right there
with you, Like the church is the body of Christ
on this earth. The Church isn't a building. The Church
isn't perfect. The people of God are not perfect. I
would encourage you to seek God, ask him to reveal
himself to you. Get a Bible, start reading it. Start
in the Book of John, read the Gospels, read through
the New Testament. Then maybe go back and read, you know,
like the Bible over a year or something like that.
Get to know God's word, you know, carry it around
with you. Find a small, small book, start reading it.
It is it's the living word of God. It is live,
it's active, it's sharper than any two edged sword. It
cuts to the marrow everything. It'll change you. And just
ask God to reveal himself through through the scriptures and
he will. He promises to challenges you to and he will.
He'll show up and he'll change your life. You need
to give it to him. There's not many ways to God.
There is only one way. Jesus said, I am the Way,
the Truth and the life. No man, no woman, no
child comes to me comes to God. But through me
is that is the only hope for anybody on this earth.
We're put here for a short time. Answer his call,
obey your conscience. He's written his law on your hearts.
He made you in his image, he made you with
the knowledge that he is. He is real, and he's
revealed himself. He's written all of us a love letter
and given us a lot of details in there and
commands to follow.
Speaker 3: Basic constructions before leaving Earth. They say, right.
Speaker 4: The Bible.
Speaker 3: So there you go. What a great conversation, brother, and
tip the cap to you and all the folks in
your organization. I did give a little like to t
Russell Hunter join him. So looking forward to seeing where
this leads. And again I'll have Jeff's email address and
YouTube channel for Abolitionist Rising. And again it's Abolitionist Rising
dot com for Jeff. I'm George, God bless you. We'll
see you Wednesday. Grace's dad Scott, Sharah and until we
meet again, my friends, keep your head on a swivel,
in Christ in your heart and we will see it.
Speaker 2: I know it's being struggle. I know you've had spain.
Speaker 5: I know you feeling tied hell down by all the way. Yeah,
I know you feel it. All you smile ain't the
same I saw were gone from you. I feel like
you've lost your way don't give it.
Speaker 4: No, don't give it.
Speaker 2: Never is home. Don't let call the Primise. It ain't done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's gone. I planned why it's a right, got up?
Speaker 2: Give me? Come? Why wait? Coming up? Recor?
Speaker 5: I can see the straight beside you. Childs are putting
up five. Oh, you're stronger than anything you are. Yeah,
you're gonna be all right. You're accepting a bed found beautiful.
Speaker 4: You're shoving ride.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you live and breathing, moveing, you can hold your
head a pie.
Speaker 2: Don't give up, No, don't give in. Neverthless home. Don't
they gone on the Pride Armies. It ain't Donion's god.
Speaker 4: Or Claire wa some wainetail, the god of me come,
don't give up, No, don't give in.
Speaker 2: You never live home. Don't let go the Primise. It
ain't con likeness worth than man? What's a wainetail? The
god of bavy cold? Why surprise now, God savy colt?
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, what surprise now?
Speaker 2: The god of baby come? Oh yeah, got a little
TV cold. Oh, don't don't give in. Never the hol
do they goal of the Primise?
Speaker 1: Me?
Speaker 2: Don ys got a plane white, God of in it
comes and don't give no dog given, never hold. Don't
the goal of the crimes. It ain't done. Love is
worth living. Wats God, God of avery, coors.
Speaker 1: Ah, the god of needs, cos Whitsune, God of any case.
Speaker 4: You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network. Just the facts, ma'am.