WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.120 With the Lucky land Slots, you can get lucky just 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:04.120 about anywhere. 3 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:07.719 This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 4 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:09.679 the weather's fine, but we're just gonna circle up here 5 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:12.800 a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 6 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:15.279 It's just these cash prizes add up quick, so I 7 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:17.640 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 8 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:18.879 and start getting lucky. 9 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:22.600 Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Are you 10 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:26.320 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 11 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.359 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 12 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:37.280 Okay, Round two, Name something that's not boring, laundry, a 13 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.920 book club, computer solitaire. 14 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:44.799 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbuck casino. 15 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:47.079 Chum. 16 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:50.000 That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 17 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.359 style games. Join today and play for free for your 18 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:54.240 chance to redeem some serious prizes. 19 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:57.520 Chump chumbucasino dot. 20 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:00.719 Com plus transitions, whatever to do. 21 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:15.040 Lope, You are now listening to true Murder, the most 22 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.439 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 23 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:24.719 have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 24 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.439 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 25 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.599 and infamous killers in true crime history True Murder, with 26 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.120 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 27 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.000 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 28 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.840 program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime 29 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.959 history and the authors that have written about them. Jerry 30 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.920 Mark was a Peace Corps volunteer, lawyer, four h leader, 31 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:03.879 vice president of his Cedar Falls High School senior class, 32 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.319 and certainly a most likely to succeed young man when 33 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:11.639 he graduated in nineteen sixty. In nineteen seventy six, he 34 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:15.400 was convicted of four execution style murders of his own family. 35 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:18.599 How could he have done such a thing and why? 36 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:23.800 Author Scott Colwelti knew Jerry Mark from high school and 37 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:26.879 went on to interview him in prison, attending the trial 38 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:31.919 and discovering a mind consumed with anger, revenge, jealousy, and greed. 39 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:37.000 Brother's Blood chronicles the killer's cross country motorcycle ride, the 40 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:41.759 landmark investigation and arrest, the circumstantial case at trial, and 41 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:45.240 the appeals that continued for thirty years. The book that 42 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.000 were featuring this evening is Brother's Blood, A Heartland Cain 43 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:55.199 and Able with my special guest, Scott Colwelty, Welcome to 44 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.479 the program, and thank you to agreeing for this interview. 45 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.479 Scott Cowealthy, thank you now, thank you for have you ma, 46 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.039 and you're doing a good job with my last name there, oh, 47 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:08.960 thank you, thank you, Glad. I asked before the first 48 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.159 thing I normally ask is that I'm a very curious guy, 49 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:17.840 and maybe he can tell us why, given all the circumstances, 50 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:22.039 and this case is an older case, why you in 51 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.080 particular felt it are compelled to write about this case 52 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:27.159 and this story. 53 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:29.840 Well, he was a high school classmate of mine. I 54 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:32.319 knew him in high school and as one of those 55 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.159 great guys. Everybody liked him. He was friendly, he was polite, 56 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.520 he was all American boy type, you know, and not 57 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.319 the No one would ever suspect him of doing anything 58 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.759 like this. In fact, at the trial, the case was 59 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:45.919 made that Jerry could never do anything like this, And 60 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.479 that's what I thought when I heard that he was accused. 61 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.439 So immediately I was interested. Terribly shocking crime out here 62 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.919 in the heartland, you know, and I thought what Jerry 63 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.919 market can't be And then I began following it and 64 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:03.159 then watch trial very closely. And then in nineteen seventy nine, 65 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.639 after he was in prison for three years, he threatened 66 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:08.800 to kill himself because he was imprisoned illegally. And at 67 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:10.759 that point I realized I had to get into this 68 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:15.560 because circumstantial evidence they said was absolutely convincing, but to him, 69 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.480 he was absolutely innocent and had no business in jail, 70 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:21.800 and he was going to fast until he died or 71 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.560 run one for the prison walls and hope they shot him. 72 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:26.680 And at that point I realized I needed to talk 73 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:28.600 to him, so I wrote him, and he remembered me, 74 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.360 and I went down to Fort Madison, Iowa, where the 75 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:34.319 state penitentiary is, and had an interview, and from then 76 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:36.920 on I was hooked. I was just I was compelled 77 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.120 to continue following the case through four or five appeals 78 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.680 until two thousand and six, and that's when a judge 79 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.800 said he should be let go or get a new 80 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:49.079 trial because there was exculpatory evidence. And at that point 81 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.319 I realized I had to write the book, finish the book, 82 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:55.120 because I was convinced by now that Jerry did it 83 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.680 and he was just a very good con man with 84 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.720 these appeals, and I wrote the book basically so I 85 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:02.879 could understand what he did and why he did it, 86 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.439 and also to tell the world that he really is 87 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:09.160 the killer and his appeals are fruitless and useless, and 88 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.959 people should know what he did and what he what 89 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.600 he put, what his victims to It was a horrible crime. 90 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.800 Now, let's go back a little bit in for our audience. 91 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:24.120 Tell us what can you describe Cedar Falls, Iowa. Tell 92 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.839 us what the community is like, maybe a little bit 93 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:28.639 of maybe a little bit of the history, what it's 94 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:32.319 known for, But tell us, really the. 95 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:35.439 I was going to say, Waterloo, Iowa. He is famous 96 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:37.879 for having been the home of John Wayne Gay see 97 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.959 you might know and also Michelle Bocklam who Michelle Backman, 98 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.199 who made the mistake of thinking John Wayne Gacy was 99 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.639 John Wayne born in winter said, you know that story. 100 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.480 We're out here in the We're out here in the prairie. 101 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:54.680 Uh Joe. Waterloo, i was known for the John dere 102 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.879 Waterloo Tractor Works and Theedar Falls. I was known for 103 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:01.680 the University of Northern Iowa, which has sports teams and 104 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.199 also great Music Department and Great A County Department. Is 105 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.040 known for several major kind of features of the education 106 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:11.600 system here in Iowa and the towns. Both towns are 107 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.639 rather quiet, not very large. I think what it is 108 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.399 about eighty thousands there falls about thirty five thousand, and 109 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.879 nothing happens here that you could call a major crime, 110 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.920 and never has and maybe never will again. And then 111 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:28.360 this crime came along in nineteen seventy five. It shook 112 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.199 the town to the core. We just couldn't believe that 113 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.920 anything could happen, anything like this could happen here. And 114 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:36.759 then when we found out it was one of our own, 115 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.720 not an outsider like the Clutter family in Kansas, the 116 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.959 in cold blood pop Us crime, it was actually an 117 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.720 intra family crime is unbelievable. And then when we find 118 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.920 out it was Jerry Mark, the lawyer, Peace Carps volunteer, 119 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:51.240 was even more incredible. Thing just getting more and more 120 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.879 surprising and incredible to all of us. And that's why 121 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.519 I think it garners so much attention. Certainly garners attention 122 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.000 around here even now, many years now. 123 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:07.120 Tell us about Jerry Mark's early childhood, tell us about 124 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:12.000 Dorothy and Wayne Mark and the family less and Tom 125 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:14.480 and the other brother to become a minister. Tell us 126 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:20.040 about the Mark family themselves. What kind of worked were 127 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.120 they are they known for. Tell us a little bit 128 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.079 about the Mark family and a little bit about what 129 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.839 Jerry's childhood and along with his brothers, what it was 130 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.639 like growing up in the Mark family. 131 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.600 He grew up in a fairly large farm outside of town, 132 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.000 not a little town named near theater falls name Finchford, 133 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.199 close to Finchford, a large acreage I think twelve eleven 134 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.680 twelve hundred acres, which is a large farm in those days. 135 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.720 That's even a large farm now. And the four boys 136 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.879 farmed it when they grew up. Wayne Mark was the father, patriarch. 137 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.279 He also ran a real estate business. He bought and 138 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:59.279 sold farms. They grew very wealthy off the farmland and 139 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.639 off the real estate business. When Wayne died in nineteen 140 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.839 seventy seven, I think it was the family was worth 141 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:07.680 well over a million dollars, so there was a lot 142 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:12.000 of money here. So Dick Mark was the oldest and 143 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.839 he grew up with the other boys and then eventually 144 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:17.680 left for the minister became a minister up in Canada, 145 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:19.600 and as a matter of fact, I think he's in Winnipeg, 146 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:21.639 or he was at the time of the murder. And 147 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:25.600 then Jerry was the next oldest and then Tom. Tom 148 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.439 had a problem. He was a schizophrenic and an alcoholic. 149 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.079 For a while, he wasn't capable of doing much of anything. 150 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.639 He was sort of a ne'er do well and kind 151 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.919 of a homeless guy around around Waterloo for a long time. 152 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:40.879 And then there was Less, the youngest. Less turned out 153 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:43.720 to be the successful one in terms of getting along 154 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.399 with people, running the farms, running the family operation. And 155 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:49.879 Jerry for a while was going to be a lawyer. 156 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:53.279 In fact, he passed the bar at Iowa and became 157 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.120 a lawyer in Des Moines for the Legal Aid Society. 158 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.039 So Jerry was the one that was you would expect 159 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:01.679 to be the success. Turned out he kind of gave 160 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:03.960 up on the law and after that he didn't have 161 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.000 much of anything to do. That is, he really didn't 162 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:08.320 end up doing much of anything. He moved to California 163 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:11.399 and did odd jobs and lived off the two women 164 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:15.080 he was involved with. So Jerry was the kind of 165 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.360 it turned out to be the nre do well. Tom 166 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:19.879 was the incapable one, and Dick was a minister off 167 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.840 and the successful one was Less. And this bothered Jerry 168 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:28.000 because Jerry was the one who really thought he taught 169 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.240 Less all he knew about farming. When they were growing up, 170 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.399 they were about four years apart. Dick was the oldest, 171 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:38.120 and then there were four years and then there was Jerry, 172 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.279 and then Tom came about four years later, and then 173 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:44.320 Less was the youngest one at twenty five. There were 174 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:48.120 approximately eight years between Lest the youngest and Jerry the 175 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:51.440 second oldest, so that the family dynamic was set up 176 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.440 in a way that really pitted the two brothers against 177 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.279 each other. Jerry and Dorothy became kind of a team, 178 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.440 and then Less and Wayne became another team, and they 179 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.360 were always kind of at each other's throats at odds. 180 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.279 They had pretty terrible family fights. The family dynamic was 181 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.440 not healthy. There was a lot of dysfunction in the family, 182 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:15.240 and Jerry grew up in the kind of rivalry between 183 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:19.159 he and his brother and that just ground him down. 184 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:23.519 And by the time Less inherited everything in September of 185 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.399 nineteen seventy five, Jerry realized he was cut out of 186 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:29.960 the inheritance. He was not going to end up running 187 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:33.320 the family farms and the real estate operation like he planned, 188 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.919 and the greed there began working its way into his 189 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.000 heart and head. And that's when he decided I think 190 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:42.600 that he had to do something about it. 191 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:49.559 Now, there was a family meeting with Less and Jerry 192 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.919 that members of the family attended, and of course Dorothy 193 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:58.159 was there and Wayne. Now maybe he can tell us 194 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.440 if Wayne was already struck with cancer at that time 195 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.000 when this conversation had But tell us about that conversation 196 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:10.440 or that debate, that argument, tell us what that argument 197 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.559 contained and what was said at that time. 198 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:15.720 Well, I had to do a lot of research for this, 199 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:17.960 because of course I wasn't there, and nobody was there 200 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.480 but the family, and I talked to Dorothy. I actually 201 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:23.600 spent a lot of time with Dorothy way back in 202 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.799 nineteen eighty when I began really working on the project, 203 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:29.960 and she gave us all this information about that family meeting, 204 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.320 and I was rather shocked. And then I heard it 205 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.720 corroborated by George Colthurst, the father of the slain woman. 206 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:40.279 Georgine Colthurst was Less's wife, and she was killed along 207 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:44.559 with last sent or two small children. And so really 208 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:48.120 what happened was that, according to Dorothy and according to George, 209 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.159 they had a real serious breakdown, a terrible argument basically 210 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.759 over what they should do with Tom Tom was falling apart, 211 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:59.399 wasn't doing well, and Jerry thought they should send him 212 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:03.600 to manage clinic for a cure, and Wayne and Left 213 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.440 thought that there was no cure, they ought to just 214 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:08.639 caretake him. And of course the caretaking was less expensive, 215 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:12.240 so Jerry was furious at him for being cheap skates 216 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:15.320 and not spending more money on Tom. And then many 217 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.399 other things came up, especially in terms of less Jerry's 218 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:21.320 ability to handle the land and actually work the land, 219 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.240 because he tended not to want to actually farm, and 220 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.679 so they just started yelling and fighting. And at this 221 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.080 point Jerry actually said to his father, who was dying 222 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.240 of cancer, old man, when you die, I'm going to 223 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.240 come back to Iowa and piss on your grave. And 224 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.240 that sort of ended his connection with the family. Is 225 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.840 a terrible thing to say, of course, and shocked everybody 226 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.759 in the family. And then he left and basically went 227 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.759 back to California, where he stewed and fumed and eventually 228 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.639 began planning the murders. That's, of course, part of what's 229 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:53.960 going on in the book. You need to read the 230 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.159 book to get all the details, but there it is, you. 231 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:00.000 Know, yeah, was there something about a fifty thousand dollars 232 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.759 or inherited. Was there something about Jerry actually running through 233 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:10.519 money beforehand so that really he couldn't he really couldn't 234 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:16.879 count on receiving anything once Wayne died eventually. 235 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.519 Right, the real problem for Jerry was he kept going 236 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.799 through money. He wasn't making much money, and the women 237 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.200 he was with at various times. His first wife was 238 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:30.039 not she didn't have a really well paying job, and 239 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:34.159 the second girlfriend, Mimi Marilyn Forrest also did not do 240 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:35.960 a lot of work. Us He worked hard, but again 241 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.840 it was a slow paying, low paying job. So Jerry 242 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:42.320 really had no serious source of income other than his family, 243 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:45.320 and he kept getting his money from his father, and 244 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.840 I think Wayne kept saying to him, Okay, you can 245 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.519 have this now, but remember it comes off your inheritance. 246 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.120 So Jerry was due to inherit fifty thousand dollars and 247 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.559 by the time of this terrible breakdown, he had gone 248 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.600 through pretty much the whole fifty thousand and there wasn't 249 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.440 any lefts and so he stood to inherit basically nothing, 250 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.039 even though there was plenty of money. The father said, 251 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:07.960 all you guys get is fifty thousand dollars and if 252 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.480 you want to go through it before I die, all right, 253 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.600 And that's what happened with Jerry, And so he had 254 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.879 nothing left. And I think he had nothing to lose 255 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.919 really by coming back and doing what he did, other than, 256 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:20.879 of course, his own sense of being a human being. 257 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.240 What was the relationship between Jerry and his brother Less, 258 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.919 as far as Dorothy knew, or as far as witnesses 259 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.639 stated at that time. 260 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:35.799 Well, Dorothy told me that they yelled at each other 261 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.200 a lot, but in fact they were very good friends. 262 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:41.840 Jerry was best man and Less his wedding. Believe it 263 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:44.039 or not, Dick married them and Jerry was best man, 264 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.399 and they seemed to be very close, and right about 265 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:51.039 the time of the murders, Jerry wrote Less a letter 266 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:52.919 asking him if he would vouch for him so he 267 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.440 could get the job, and Less agreed to do that, 268 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.039 and a letter that letter. There are two letters crossed 269 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.960 in the mail right about the time of the murders, 270 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.440 and they both seemed friendly. In the letter, they seemed 271 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.279 to like each other. One of the puzzling aspects of 272 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.399 this is how in the world could Jerry shoot his 273 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.320 brother execution style when they had been such good friends 274 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.399 all their lives. It's really beyond imagining to me, and 275 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.399 I think it is to everybody who reads the story. 276 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:23.279 Now, when you say after this meeting, after the big 277 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.480 dust up at the home place, as they called it, 278 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.679 and this is make sure that we understand it, that's 279 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.200 when we're referring to. That's the homestead, the Jerry and 280 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.080 Dorothy that's called the home place. 281 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.480 Now when very large farmhouse. It still exists on Union 282 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.919 Road outside of Cedar Falls, and it was the basic 283 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.480 the home had been there almost one hundred years. It 284 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.159 was built right around the turn of the century and 285 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.720 gradually added on to various parts of the family, added 286 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.240 another room or another section here and there, so it 287 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.720 became a huge old farmhouse. There was the center of 288 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.519 operations of the entire Mark family real estate and all 289 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:00.440 the others those. 290 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.559 Dealings they have, yes, right now. When he went back 291 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:09.320 to California with and living with his girlfriend Marilyn forrest 292 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:14.399 Or Mimi, Yeah, she was known as far as Mimi knew. 293 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.360 What was What did Jerry say to Mimi? 294 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.320 Wait, lucky land slots. You can get lucky just about anywhere. 295 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.919 This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 296 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.720 the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up 297 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.960 here a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 298 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.480 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 299 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:35.840 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 300 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:37.360 and start getting lucky. 301 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.759 Pay for free at lucky landslopes dot com. Are you 302 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.519 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 303 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.480 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 304 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.759 Say you've just alluded to that he was began his 305 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:55.639 planning of this horrific murder of his own family. But 306 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.159 as far as Mimi knew, what was what kind of 307 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:04.440 conversation did Jerry have with Mimi over this fight with 308 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.599 his family and concerning these plans that you say that 309 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.160 he was hatching in his mind to murder his own family, 310 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.240 As far as Mimi knew what was going on in 311 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:16.799 Jerry's mind at that time. 312 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.599 Well, you know, this is where it gets rather diabolical. 313 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.000 Because he realized the level of planning that Jerry had 314 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:25.440 to undertake. He basically wanted to use Mimi as an alibi. 315 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.519 He saw that he could use her and in fact, 316 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.720 she could become his ally at if he ever got 317 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.480 accused of doing anything. She would say, Oh no, no, 318 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.519 it couldn't have been Jerry, because he called from various 319 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.960 parts of a trip. What he told her basically was 320 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.400 that he wanted to take this motorcycle that he had 321 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.640 bought with his dad's money, a Honda four point fifty, 322 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.000 and take a motorcycle ride to find himself because he 323 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:50.799 was sort of at odds with what he wanted to do, 324 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.839 and he no longer was interested in the law. So 325 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.640 he bought this motorcycle, and he told Mimi he was 326 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.599 going to ride down into the Mohave Desert around Coalinga 327 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.559 and sit around, drink a few beers, maybe take a 328 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:05.480 little longer ride, and maybe a little further west, a 329 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.839 little further east rather, and then ride home. This is 330 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:10.839 going to happen at the end of the month of October. 331 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:12.920 He would start on Wednesday, and he would be back 332 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.559 by Saturday, he told her, and all would be well. 333 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.359 He'd feel good about himself again, and they could carry 334 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.720 on with their lives. And so what he did was 335 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.119 he called her from various places, but they weren't the 336 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.559 places he really was. As it came out in the trial, 337 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.480 he was much closer to Iowa at each time he called, 338 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.759 and she, as far as she was concerned, when he 339 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:39.480 was in Coalinga, he was actually up in Loveland, Utah. 340 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:42.359 And then when he was in Provo, supposedly he was 341 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.359 over in Cheyenne. So he told her, he said, listen 342 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.319 to me, I'm in Provo, this was Thursday night, and 343 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.279 I'm having a great time. I'll just ride around a 344 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:53.240 little more. But in fact, he was way over in Cheyenne, Wyoming, 345 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.480 much closer to Iowa. And the phone records they actually 346 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.880 saved just just in time they rescued, I should say, 347 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.119 in time to get all the evidence that he was making. 348 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:05.880 He was lying about where he was calling from. So 349 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.440 basically he set up this alibi with Mimi, and she 350 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.440 would have testified had they not had the phone records 351 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.960 that Jerry called from Coalinga and Provo and actually nowhere 352 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.119 near Iowa, and that would have been a really pretty 353 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.960 airtight alibi. But they found the phone records in that 354 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.000 wrecked so Mimi didn't know anything. She was being used 355 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.160 by Jerry the whole time. 356 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:30.640 Now let's go back just a little bit, because this 357 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.640 is I think is important to the story as well, 358 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:38.079 is that Mimi's ex husband is involved in this somewhat 359 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:42.400 in terms of a camper, in terms of this gun 360 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.359 that ends up being used. So tell us a little 361 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.359 bit about how they came to have the gun in 362 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.960 their possession, both of them, and talk about the little 363 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.279 the ex husband and how this all happened. 364 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:58.119 Right. Well, her Mimi's husband's name is Olga Alga, an 365 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:01.519 interesting name, and all the and Mimi were not getting along, 366 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.480 and Olga had had a thirty eight long Colt revolver. 367 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.440 Actually it was a copy of a Smith and Wesson 368 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:12.319 long Colt revolver, a Spanish copy, and had no registration, 369 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.759 no serial number. It was untraceable, and it was in 370 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.880 the old camper that Olga kept outside of his trailer 371 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:23.920 is his mobile home in Berkeley. And Mimi and Jerry 372 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.440 decided they're going to have to because they were separating. 373 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.759 Mimi and Olga were separating. They were going to have 374 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:32.839 to get some trading stock in the divorce. So they 375 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.480 decided to steal this camper truck and that way they 376 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:39.759 could get a lot of August stuff and trade off 377 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:41.440 the stuff that he was keeping from me. It was 378 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.319 not a happy divorce. They were mad at each other. 379 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.799 See the whole thing so they spirited off this camper 380 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.759 truck and Jerry this is where the story starts for me. 381 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.839 Jerry was pawing through all this junk in the camper 382 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.920 and came across this thirty eight long cold pistol. Sorry, 383 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.720 a revolver is not a pistol. A revolver great big. 384 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.880 It's a big weapon. They had it in the They 385 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.160 showed pictures of a weapon like that in the corn 386 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.799 a very large revolver, and he realized he had an 387 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.720 untraceable weapon on his hands, and it fired thirty eight 388 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.000 long cold cartridges. He had no idea what that meant. 389 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:16.960 He just thought thirty eight was a thirty eight like 390 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.680 the rest of us, not familiar with weapons, right. So 391 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:24.119 Olga owned that revolver, and Jerry ended up with it, 392 00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:27.559 and he put it down in his storage cabin a cabinet, 393 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.400 and left it there outside their apartment until he needed it. 394 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.880 Then he put it in his motorcycle and it ended 395 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:34.640 up being the weapon that killed these people. 396 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:37.839 Now we're going to jump ahead just a little bit, 397 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.400 but in terms of we don't find this out in 398 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.240 the book till a little bit later. But let's let's 399 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.200 what does Mimi find out in regards to the gun. 400 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:54.279 Shortly after, Jerry gets on his four P fifty Honda 401 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:57.200