Speaker 1: Hello friends, and welcome back to the rabbit Hole. I'm
your host Danny, and today we have Austin back Austin.
We're going to talk about Columbine. Last time, Okay, I
recorded the intro prior to us getting together, and I
was like, we're gonna talk about Columbine, and then I
was like, we never even touched But this time I
have since since you ruined my life last time we talked,
I have done a deep dive into Monarch. I've done
a deep dive into Columbine. I connected it to Cannon Cook,
which you now have to do a deep dive into.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yes, I instantly looked up Cannon Cook as soon
as you mentioned it, and I will be going into
that very soon, and I'm sure it will come up
on Already Dead this week. But I cannot.
Speaker 1: Wait until you cover it because I really like your
like I really like your brain, like the way your
brain processes things so way my brain processes things. So
I'm like really into it.
Speaker 2: Man, Thank you so much. I think it is interesting
as well, just the geographical component of Missouri, as you
had mentioned, because that's that's very near and dear to
where I grew up as well, right just in northwest Arkansas. Joplin,
Missouri was very close to where I grew up, Right,
so there seems to be implications of oh, really, wow,
that's crazy. But yeah, it just seems like there's far
more of an entrench network in that area than I
ever would have suspected, which I don't know why. You know,
at this point, I'm not very surprised anymore. But at
the same time, it's like, man, it's it's hard not
to just have a pausing moment and reflect on, Wow,
what you don't know? Right, because that's at every stage
of these cases that you know, I kind of do
the deep dives on it just continues to reveal, you know,
an additional layer which I never expect and and it's
it's fascinating to me. But it's what has driven me
to do this, I think, because it's like, man, it's
intoxicating in a way and in a positive way. As
much as there's this this you know, very sinister nature
to all of it, I think the the really just
the those moments when you find those smoking guns, it
makes it all worth worthwhile in a way because it
not only does it reinforce and I'm not playing the
game of confirmation biased. But at the same time, it's
like it's hard not to continually recognize the same patterns
as they reveal themselves in the playbook that is so
heavily relied upon. And that's why again it's like I
never expected to have a direct line into a potential
Gladio operation being conducted in the area of Littleton, Colorado
at the same time that Columbine happened. But here we are.
Here we are once more the strategy of tension is
playing out in its modern form, and I think attached
to it is we had discussed on the last episode.
I think I had brought up the concept of the
mind war, right and the just the psychology of victory,
and Paul Vallelli being on the turning point of advisory
board as a member, you know, I think since at
least twenty eighteen. But it's just fascinating because he's the
co author with Michael Akino, prolific pedophile running the Monarch
Boys out of off Foot Air Force Base in these
various locations. It's disgusting, honestly to get any of the
victim statements on that person individually, you know, But ye
did they again, he comes up, he's from I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking about I'm thinking Montalk, not Monarch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mon Talk.
Speaker 1: Now I've got all my boys mixed up.
Speaker 2: It's interesting though, because mon Talk is connected to Plattsburgh
Air Force Base. They were essentially running behavioral modification experiments
on victims child victims in the subterranean bunker at at
I think it's like eighteen level subterranean bunkers underneath Plattsburgh,
and this is where apparently these these scientists we were
experimenting on these these young children. But the mon Talk
boys were also attached to that, and it wasn't just
boys obviously. But it's just interesting, you know, once again
because I think even David Berkowitz from Son of Sam,
he was connected to Montalk as well directly. So again
it's never right exactly. And what do we have with
Olumbein We have apparently the White Eagle Underground and the
Brotherhood of the White Temple. All of this connects to
the Star Chamber, which is the upper echelon leadership involved
in this network, and apparently rogue intelligence officials. According to
an internal report from an investigating officer who I think
was just a local level out of his He was
out of his depth. He didn't quite understand this cabal
that he was basically being exposed to in this limited window, right,
and so he was just trying to make sense of it.
And he writes this internal report on the Star Chamber,
and it's very fascinating because Michael Luchino, his wife, the
High Priestess of the Temple of Set, they were Satanists.
Obviously they had left the Satanic Church because of some
dispute with Anton Levy, which I don't really buy this.
I think it's a cover story. Yeah, because essentially they
then proceed to subsequently set up the Temple of Set,
and that in itself was I feel like as Jim
Garrison said about the Discordianism movement, which apparently Discordianism was
created by Kerrie Thornley, who was one of the Oswald
impersonators running domestic intelligence operations on behalf the CIA, and
Jim Garrison said, he set up Discordianism, which was an
occult New age esoteric movement that fit perfectly into that
of like the Temple of Set and these various other
occult organizations, and that he was claiming once mk Ultra
was driven underground as they you know, address with the
penal colony paper that was written by a Berkeley professor
who sent it to William Holsinger, who's Congressman Lee O'Brien's
aid during Jonestown, when when Congressman Lee O'Ryan was a
thorn in the side of the c I A right,
he's he's effectively going under cover and even at one point,
I mean, talk about an investigative congressman. This was fascinating.
They don't they don't make him like this anymore.
Speaker 1: That guy, he went all the way down there and
then got shot at He died, didn't he or his
aid died.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they murdered him. They assassinated him in the Poort
Coyuma airstrip, And it was just after he was passed
a note by one of the People's Temple members who claimed,
please help us escape or trapped here where we're all prisoners,
essentially being experimented on. It's just just you know, when
you read through the accounts of what happened there, it
looked like the Red Brigade, which was the you know,
kind of police force of the People's Temple in Jonestown.
It was really like this Communist They had connections to
this very very interesting the Red Brigade, as they're basically
connected to Gladio as a paramilitary force, and Jim Jones
was using them for protection in a way, but also
you know, to flex on the members of the People's
Temples and so anyway, it's very interesting because it seems
like one of the individuals who was the son he
was the only person ever arrested for what happened that
Jonestown and basically I think he was under he was
essentially in a hypnotic trance when he carried out the
murders with the Red Brigade at Port Coyuma airstrip, and
he was the son of the individual who was running
the major Essentially, he was in charge of all of
the most sophisticated mind control medications that were being utilized
by the intelligence apparatus at the time, and it was
his son who was actually robotically acting as a hypnotically.
What they claimed was it was potentially a mentoring candidate
when he was carrying out the targeted assassinations on the airstrip,
so he didn't have any recollection of it. It's very strange.
Speaker 1: What I don't understand is why all these like military
members keep using their own children. You would think that
they would not want to use their children, that they
would want.
Speaker 2: To I think that other people's children, Like, yeah, you
would imagine. But at the same time, I think it
was almost the the context was was kind of reinforced
in a way as far as just the concept of
these the higher loyalty you know, to the organization and
the and the basically the secret fraternal organization that you
belong to, which I do think in the recent film
Paul Thomas anders and directed that was One Battle after
Another Rite, which I describe as almost Antifa progressive propaganda
pornography in a way. You know, Like as much as
I love Paul Thomas Anderson as a director, which I
really do, he's fascinating. He He did Boogie Knights and
Magnolia and so many different films that the Master on
Scientology with with Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman basically
playing l Ron Hubbard. And then probably my all time
favorite film was Inherent Vice, which is basically really revealing
the playbook in itself, which is the the unholy alliance
between these cartels and the intelligence apparatus and and basically
how they set up this this strange in a way,
they needed an Anglo American on the strip in Vegas,
and they they even at one point Benicio del Tooro's
character references installing this this major Uh he's basically a
real estate mogul in a way named Mickey Wolfman was
the character. They were going to install him on the
strip to run one of the casinos because they needed
to counter the organized crime influence of the Italian mob
on the strip at the time. And the allegedly now
that the context was referencing how the CIA installed Howard
Hughes on the strip because they needed an Anglo on
the strip, and so that was kind of that comparison.
Mm hmmm, it was the But it's so fascinating too, like, uh,
just as far as Howard Hughes, the one, I think
he's the first billionaire, and it's just so obvious that
he was a creative personality in a way and was
almost the cutout for these domestic operations because even during
the Nixon administration, Uh no, no, no, it was when Nixon
was VP. He apparently calls up Howard Hughes and he
says Hey, we need plausible deniability to run domestic intelligence operations.
So will you please set up these domestic black sites
all throughout the US geographically to where we can train
up these Cuban exiles and Cuban refugees and then utilize
them as operatives in this context of running domestic operations.
That's why all the Cubans were involved in Watergate, right,
because Howard Hughes was running the Cubans. He was their handler,
and they know him by it exactly, and they knew
him by a different name. He was really I think
working in I think he was infiltrating the Nixon administration
because he was running a layered operation and basically he
was actually more loyal to Richard Helms. In the Office
of Security, which was the OS, was like this highly
seektive internal a group within the CIA that only directly
answered to Richard Helms as the director of the CIA
at the time. This is when Richard Helms ordered during
the Church Committee hearings, he ordered all the destruction of
thousands of files regarding MK Ultra. I think obviously a
lot of people kind of made actually I think it
was you that made the point. The last time we
talked that they probably just secretively housed them somewhere else
instead of destroying them, right, and.
Speaker 1: Just how some of them. I think they did destroy
some of them, but I think that well, I think
they destroyed some of them, but I do think that
somebody took them somewhere else. Yeah, absolutely with them, like
because they didn't stop mk Ultra. We have evidence of
that exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what the penal colony was. As far
as the the reports or letter that the Berkeley professor
had written and sent to Congressman Lei O. Ryan, he said, no,
they actually drove m k Ultra underground for plausible deniability
into all these cult to cut out organizations like the
People's Temple at Jonestown. And he said that specifically he
believed it was just again a product of m k
ltre going underground and then continuing their experimentation in this
very controlled way, because again you have this almost precedent
setting operation playing out in terms of controlled test subjects
in this I mean trapped in the remote jungles of
Guyana at that point, and then predominantly black as well,
which was very strange to see, like the racial dynamic
playing out between the members, and then the leadership because
the leadership was mostly white, which is very interesting to
me just as far as you know the power dynamic
at play there. And then also listening to the final tapes,
the death tapes at Jonestown, I'll never forget because you
have individuals who aren't entirely as suggestible as the rest, right,
they haven't been quite as conditioned as the others, and
they're really kind of rejecting the notion like we don't
have Because Jim was suggesting they would have an escape route, right,
they could call up the Russian government and the Soviets
would would basically they would give them, he would give
them a code, and then they would come and rescue
them from the Western intelligence military ashist brigade that was
essentially going to kill them all and back down on
Jim Jones because he was such a prophet. It was
just hilarious to watch and and see, but very disturbing
to see the rest of the group members for the
most part shouting her down and and just you know,
really influencing her to shut her mouth, you know, and
and just go through with with the Yeah, the final
apocalyptic uh what do they call it? Revolutionary suicide revolutionary
mass suicide, which is just very interesting.
Speaker 1: But it was like we all was they were right.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the members were unfortunately forced
to take the poison, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and I think a lot of them did not know,
like they had done it like done practice runs so
many times that they didn't know that.
Speaker 2: There was exactly this is the one, right, Yeah. And
he would do loyalty tests with also many of the
members before they even left Yukaya, right in northern California.
He would like would they would start drinking wine in
his office and then he would tell them that he
poisoned the wine and just get their reaction. And it
was very strange, but it did seem like it was
a loyalty test for the most part of what he
was attempting to do. But yeah, I don't know, I
just see that so much of this applies directly to Columbine, obviously,
because you have Eric Harris, who I believe was almost
intentionally sacrificed by his own parents, right, just very strange. Yeah,
his dad and his ties to military intelligence are just
extraordinary and impossible to dismiss. But I began my episode
by evoking the words of Bill Cooper from Behold a
Pale Horse, because basically and obviously I think there are
portions of a pell horse, which he himself even later
on reflected back on and claimed that he was given
false information to damage his credibility things of that nature
like and I think that was much to do with
the alien component and in regard to the jfk assassination
and things of that nature. But I mean that that
also did not only come from Bill Cooper. He was
I think referencing because it came up in the in
terms of Douglas Caddie, who was a personal friend of
Howard Hunt and hit the very first apparently his personal
attorneys where as well his private attorney, and was the
well he worked for Mullening Company along with Howard Hunts,
and he claims that he didn't realize Mullening Company was
a CIA cutout in a front to to actually run
domestic operations. He claims he didn't know, but they were
a Mullening company like a PR firm that was hired
by in these major companies, I think even Coca Cola
at one point I can't remember now, but which makes
sense because Coca Cola has a big CIA footprint as well.
Just as far as involvement, I think I think it
was Coca Cola who was involved in a factory and
a plant in Vietnam, and they were basically running intelligence
operations through this factory and infiltrating. They would supply or
provide members like intelligence assets and intelligence agents who would
act as if they were working and under the employee
of the Coca Cola plant, and in reality they were
covert operatives that were essentially staging on the ground operations
in Vietnam itself leading up to the war, which happens
very often, you know. But anyway, I just think it's
it's interesting obviously because Douglas Caddy, he claims that he
sat down with Howard Hunt at one point following Watergate,
and by the way, he was the first guy to respond.
He got a call early in the morning, like I
think it was after two am. He gets a call
from Howard Hunt just as the Watergate arrests all happened
and Howard Hunt got out of there. He wasn't arrested originally,
right with the all the burglars, because again he's running
a layered operation. He set them up right and he
knew he knew that Carl Schoffler was tipped off as
the arresting officer sitting outside of the Watergate early before
you know, at one am, in playing clothes because he
was actually loyal to military intelligence and running because military
intelligence had infiltrated the DC Metropolitan Police Department. So you
had dual loyalties playing out there as well. So he's
read in, he's he's sitting out there waiting for for
the call, and it's it's very strange how it all
played out. But it turns out that Douglas Caddy gets
a call from Howard Hunt. He then shows up at
Caddie's house in residence and uh and tells him about
the Cubans, and I forget who the other burglar was,
damn it, Frank Sturgis, I think was his name. Uh who.
He's got a fascinating story as well. He goes to
assassinate Marita Lorenz and he he's like, the cops are
waiting at Marita's apartment because he claimed that Marita had
all these files on the JFK assassination. You know that
she was she was about to blow the whistle and
and was providing these files and documents to the basically
these federal investigators, and so her and her daughter, we
were tipped off by a detective that Frank Sturgis is
going to come and murder you because they need to
silence silence you essentially, And and she had also seen
she had been at one of the safe houses, the
CIA safe houses, she claimed was in Virginia. And and
by the way, the CIA tried tried to recruit Marita
to assassinate Fidel Castro for them, because yes, she she
inevitably had a sexual relationship with I don't remember. I
don't either, but it's so crazy. And and it turns
out that she was impregnated by Fidel Castro allegedly and.
Speaker 1: Fell in love with him Trudeau's mom.
Speaker 2: That's the claim, the allegedly that is a lot of
people think this is this is what happened, And uh,
it makes sense because this reinforces that just as far
as lens a bit more credibility to the notion that
it is possible, because we certainly don't know who that
child was, and the basically what happened to that child
either and neither does Marita. And so basically what happened
is she falls in love with him. She's tad after
she was tasked by the CIA to assassinate him, and
he impregnates her. She wakes up on an operating table,
no longer pregnant, with no memory of what happened, and
no child. And that's the last we heard of this.
And then the CIA brings her back to the States
and puts her in a safe house, and she claims
she sees Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, all the usual suspects
who planned the Watergate burglary and the JFK assassination because
they were members of Operation forty. And she says this
is before JFK was killed. She was brought back to
the safe house, and she claims she saw all the
individuals who were the architects of the assassination and even
claimed to have seen Oswald and that she rode with
them to Dallas. That's what she claimed after they met
at the safehouse.
Speaker 1: So after, okay, they take her baby, they bring her
back to Virginia and then they're like, hey, let's go
on a little road trip to Dallas, Texas where who
could guess it, JFK is about to be murdered, and
this guy, he's our Patsy what.
Speaker 2: And then they set her up later on in life.
It seems like she was a lifetime asset honestly, because
they set her up in an apartment complex where she
was running audio visual blackmail for the purposes of providing
that to the intelligence. So yeah, it seems like this
is nothing new. And Heidie Reichen wasn't alone at all
either in terms of the the what do they call
her the White House call girl that that's the book
that references that network specifically, which was ran by Joan
nes Lyne, who was apparently the a member of one
of the high ranking members of the organized crime syndicate
that was also the fixer that was working along with
intelligence in d C. And so he was helping run
plausible deniability on behalf of the agency in terms of
setting up the prostitution network in operation at the Columbia
Plaza apartments, which was like a block away from the Watergate,
and that's where they were providing basically this binder of
women and to these various diplomats and and you know,
political assets that would come into town and visit and
and they would they were running this all through a
specific desk in the Watergate complex that wasn't on the
same Apparently they had it. They had their own separate
communication apparently as far as like it wasn't attached to
I forget the terminology they used, but it's very interesting
because it was clearly just a private communication network that
they were relying on for this prostitution operation. But yeah,
it's never ending, and it looks like everything, right, Heidi
would even say that the operation itself and the Columbia
Plaza apartments where she said that she had CIA protection, right.
So it's just very interesting, right, and not at all surprising.
But yeah. So I began my episode by referencing Bill Cooper,
as I mentioned, and how in the whole appel Horse
he talks about how for many years, right, the secret
government has been encouraging the manufacture and the importation of
military grade firearms for criminal use. He claims this is
intended to foster a feeling of insecurity, which would lead
the American people to voluntarily disarm themselves by passing laws
against firearms. Now, this is the most interesting part, and
the reason that I put it in the beginning was
because he claims by using drugs and hypnosis on mental
patients in a process called Orion. The CIA inculcated the
desire in these people to open fire on school yards
and thus inflame the anti gun lobby. This plan is
well underway and so far is working to perfection, he says.
And I think as much as Orion isn't documented, right,
it fits right. It fits very well with just even
the Artochoke documents that I think I referenced in the
last episode from the early nineteen fifties, right, they have
the ability to trigger a mentorian, you know, using a telephone.
And then also there's one portion from nineteen fifty three,
there's one portion of the Artichoke documents that basically claimed
SI and H experimentation, which I believe was obviously hypnotism
as an experiment. And there was another document as well
from February fifty four, and it says it discusses the
creation of hypnotized subjects who respond to triggers and who
are willing to shoot people when they ordinarily wouldn't. And
so I just felt like, Okay, we have legitimate evidence
and internal documentation that has been provided and exposed through
FOYA that proves through the ciamk Ultra subprojects, they were
obviously capable of achieving this, and it's impossible to deny
that they were training up programmed assassins at this point.
And as if they haven't sophisticated those methods over time,
I think is a very naive thing to yeah, or
impression to be under But.
Speaker 1: Well, so many people are like, well that stopped back
in like the seventies, Like that stopped in the sixties.
It was uncovered and found unethical. Yeah, well, okay, that
doesn't That's never stopped them before. Like we have a
whole history of things where they were like, oh, but
they stopped doing that, and then they get caught doing
it again exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think really the interesting part about Columbinden was
was the aftermath in terms of just the consequential nature
of an event and a high impact event such as
this and always providing that dystopian pretext to essentially be
achieved by the permanent establishment, and they always take those
opportunities and run. And I think, you know, following the shooting,
you have schools all across the US who institute new
security measures. Transparent backpacks were one, I think metal detectors.
They had school uniforms obviously were being implemented, and then
you had security guards that were placed in most of
the public schools. So some of the schools even included
numbering their doors and it was supposed to improve public
safety response allegedly, which now you even see in the
public school system whenever shootings occurred to this day, right,
you have the doors allegedly, and most schools will just
lock for the classroom, which I think is insane. And
I even wrote or I read about how they're going
to provide domestic drone systems to the public schools for
mass shooter response. This is real. Yeah, they've already done
this is it? I can't remember if if I can't recall,
but I definitely do remember there's military developments that are
all financing and facilitating this obviously, and they claim.
Speaker 1: Also creating their career. They have this sound machine or
they like recognizes the sound of a gunshot and instantly
calls nine on one for you wow, and like recording
so flow. I did an episode on uh, the invasion
of privacy and flock cameras, like flock system was part of.
Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah. I just saw something about AI systems
operationally being uh you know, apparently inserted into the mass
surveillance system obviously, which which is on every street corner,
and basically they're saying that through the ai AI software system,
they will be able to interpret your your mouth movements
and every word that you actually say and things of
that nature. So yeah, I think it's far more advanced
than any of us would want to probably acknowledge your
comprehend their conceptualizing, and usually I think DARPA's twenty five
years advanced ahead of where we think they are. But
I've heard so many people kind of push back and
claim that we're signing too much power to, you know,
the establishment. But man, it's hard to say that when
you've you've just read through so much of what is
documented as as reality, you know, and that in itself
is hard to imagine that they lost their ability to,
you know, to effectively exploit us. I don't think that's
the way of the world, unfortunately. But yeah, but you know,
you have just this as far as like not only
the computer generated ID in all of this right, as
far as just the new requirements for security measures in schools,
but you have a significant number of copycat crimes that
began to occur, and they would always tend to, especially
the media, evoke the name of Dylan and Eric and
Columbine following the next school shooting that it takes place.
And I think Janet Reno was also one of the
leading figures who helped push the Columbine effect in a way,
just by referencing back to Columbine so often and even
calling one of the shootings that occurred directly after as
a co copycat crime, which you know, she's the butcher
of Waco, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she is. She's something Waco. You have oka see.
You've got Columbine, this lady was in it.
Speaker 2: And Ruby Ridge too, yeah, right, like Janet Reno, Man,
I think whenever she was up for reelection, she ran
her mouth and said if she didn't get re elected,
she basically threatened the establishment. She said she would low
the lid off of Waco. And I thought that was
interesting because there was a report that was written by
an individual who was basically given the treatment of Danny
Castilero and experienced the worst case of suicide you've ever seen.
And his body was even moved and placed on his
own toilet back at his apartment. But they knew for
a fact that he was killed somewhere else, and they
claimed he killed himself on his own toilet. It's just insane.
He was a member of the White House press team
for a minute, as far as just like, yeah, it's
very strange. And it turns out he was contacted by
a domestic operative within the intelligence apparatus who was rounding
his mouth, claiming he was blowing the whistle because he
was being hung out to dry. He says he was
the pilot who actually flew the private flight with George
w Or George Busch Senior and these various other individuals
to Paris for the October surprise meeting apparently, which, yeah,
it's very interesting, but all of that led to obviously,
I think Reagan and Oric Hard losing right the the election,
which was effectively the point. But it's very interesting because
because his claims very much did seem credible if you
looked into them, and and every single thing that he mentioned,
one of which was that there Waco and and the
the compound was a testing ground for mk Ultra and
that those the vast majority and even the leadership members
right of the branch Davidians were actually waking up from
their programming and this was the reason why they needed
to actually uh basically tie off these loose ends, and
yet they were no longer. Yeah, they were apparently supposed
to be manufacturing some explosive device that they were going
to utilize in an operation domestically as well, and that
makes sense considering okay, see right, and things of that nature.
So yeah, and then just in the fact that.
Speaker 1: What's his name, Timothy McVeigh hadn't made a trip down
to Waco. He was there for that, but also prior
to that, like he had gone down to Dallas a
couple of times where you're like, why what is he
doing down there? Like why is he not a Dallas
but to Waco or I mean in Dallas too, but
like like he's going down to Texas an awful lot
for a guy that like has no ties to Texas.
And then he was there during WAGO and then he
committed the OKAC bombing. If we are to believe that
that's what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, It's so crazy, And and I think McVeigh
was sheep dipped operative obviously everything that you read about.
He exposed that to his own sister.
Speaker 1: And then we have the FBI guy down in Florida
that's Timothy McVay like had a second you look real familiar.
Speaker 2: I know, right, that is always It's always fascinated me
as far as that connection. But you never know, and
I honestly don't. I think when Jolly West, uh you know,
jolly On West, which which obviously was one of the
key MK Ultra you know, I mean he he was
basically answering directly to Sydney Gottlieb and which they called
the Dark Sorcerer of MK Ultra himself or something is
the name they be given. And also the goat Fucker apparently.
Is I'm dead serious that that was attributed to him,
a name that was given to him. Yeah, it's fascinating,
And honestly it was during the Finders, I believe. When
I was researching that, and I found out that basically
there is evidence of this pedophile academy that existed called
the Farm right, And this fits perfectly because Marion Petty
he was running on his farm in Virginia, right, which
was eerily close to Camp Perry and obviously Virginia its
self CI stopping grounds and and yeah, it looks like
that's he had where the members of the Finders were
all meeting and they were were practicing witchcraft. They claimed
that they would play these these games with the children
that were I forget. It was like, which is in
warlocks or something. It was very strange, but because neighbors
had like gone on record claiming they had they had
watched this happen, and these kids were all naked when
they were playing this game apparently, and.
Speaker 1: They also the kids they had to live outsiders.
Speaker 2: Them, Oh my god, they had no they didn't know
how to use a bathroom. It was like, it's so
terrible the level that they had broken these children down to,
you know. And that was something that I found out
with the Montreal experiments, right, just as far as referencing
back to Ewan Cameron and the fact that you know,
he could roll back an adult personality to that of
an infant child, right and you had had one of
his victims was a grown woman who was just seeking
help for depression, you know. And it's just like so
sad because she didn't have any caretakers and and they
broke her down to where she thought her interrogators were
her parents, and she didn't even know who her parents
were any longer. She spent years of her life trying
to redevelop an adult personality because she was stunted at
the age of three, which is how much they had
psychologically manipulate her. But as far as the the goat
fucker comment, if I'm going to mention that, I have
to have to reinforce it with a credible section, and
so basically did he provide Mariam Petty with the goats
used in the blood ritual, which they called the if
you remember, whenever the w Street apartments in the warehouse
were raided by uh, you know, the US Customs Agent
and members of the Metropolitan Police Department DC. They ran
this joint raid and they conducted on the warehouse and
they found obviously all these pictures of children, basically child pornography.
They were on display with their genitals exposed and things
of that nature. And and but they found a whole,
They found a whole basically photo album of what was
labeled the execution of Henrietta and Igor, which were the
goats that were basically beheaded, one of which was killed
while it was alive by having the children carve out
it was a pregnant goat. They had the children carve
out the baby goat from the womb of the live
pregnant goat and then and then present the dead baby goat,
and then the head of one of the goats as
well to one of the children, which is very strange.
But again, the.
Speaker 1: Like reading about that, and it was like like the goats,
and I was like, what is up with these goats?
Like they have all these kids with like these pictures
of these goats. But I guess I didn't realize like
that the kids were. I had assumed there was some
kind of weird sacrifice with them, but I didn't know
exactly like the extent of it.
Speaker 2: Oh Man. Mariam Petty justified this by claiming it was
they were instructing the children on how to engage in
animal husbandry. Yeh, and yes, but in reality, they were
wearing ritual garb, you know, like ritual gowns and whatever
the hell they're called, you know what I'm saying. And
I think it was white. Yeah, all white robes is
what they were wearing during the ritual itself. And but yeah,
you basically have this quote right from a CIA Assistant
Deputy Director of Operations named Robert Crowley, and he says, oh,
we do have our stable of weird people working for us.
Did I ever tell you about the pedophile Academy? We
actually had one down at Camp Perry, right near the
CIA's you know, Jim Crichfield's place. I don't know if
you're aware of it, but we called it the Farm
and it was supposed to be a secret training center
for young agents. Anyway, Alan Dola set up this training
center down there for pedophiles. They were in training to seduce,
molest and most especially photographed the young children n of targets.
Not only apparently, he claimed, not only would the graduates
have a spanking good time, but they could get wonderful
action pictures of the wei ones to blackmail their families
with I understand they broke it up when one of
the graduates nailed a CIA deputy director's son at a
summer camp. Right, Like, you have to.
Speaker 1: Assume that if you're going to train pedophiles, you're going
to send these people there to get trained in order
to like do this to children, that they might do
it to your fucking children exactly.
Speaker 2: So when it's so mad, I'm with you. It is
infuriating that these people not only exist but are are basically,
you know, insulated from accountability, you know, and in every way.
And he finishes that quote though by saying, oh, and
we mustn't forget the goat boy. That's the strange doctor
Sidney Gottlieb. This is the face of mk ultra doctor
Sidney Gottlieb. We called him that because he lived in
a hovel and kept a bunch of goats around. He
used to have sexual affairs with them. That's what he says.
Speaker 1: This guy was probably some freaking weird mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And I mean the Camp Perry, by the way. I
went and looked this up. It's a US military reservation
in New York or in York County, right near Williamsburg, Virginia,
which apparently hosts a covert CIA training facility known as
the Farm Weird exactly officially referred to as an Armed
Forces Experimental Training Activity a f e t A under
the authority of the Department of Defense, Camp Perry is
approximately nine thousand eight makers and the farm is used
the train officers of the CIA's Directorate of Operations, as
well as those of the DA's Defense Clandestine Service, among
other intelligence bodies, and its facilities are available to the
members of the intelligence community. For quote off site activities
such as conferences and working groups. So Camp Perry even
has a sister facility called The Point located in Hertford,
North Carolina. So yeah, that's what we're dealing with, right, apparently,
and if that applies to the face of MK Ultra
and one of the most prominent figures in American history
as far as just systematically entrenching these methods, you know,
I mean it's that he was the mentor for jolly
On West, you know, and for doctor West. You know.
It's just fascinating because he went and is the Tim McVay.
When Tim McVay was was obviously on death row, and
you know, I think he convinced McVay that they would
intervene on his behalf and he would be given a
counteracting substance which would effectively render the lethal injection as
it would counteract the lethal injection basically, and he was
still survive, and so I think he was conditioned to
believe this and they are more than likely. Yeah, it
seems like it, right, But that's the part, right. I
just think that it's interesting because of how much their
speculation regarding his death right and obviously, why would you
spend your entire time on death row, trying to make
sure uh you know the legal uh basically that you
set the legal precedent for not allowing your father to
have your body autop seed. Right, you know, it's like
things of that nature that make absolutely no sense, clearly
and beyond the the misdirection of the Hurst for public
perception right where where obviously that his body was not
in that hurst, which is just so crazy. So we
have no idea where Tim McVay is this.
Speaker 1: But this is the same Jolly West that visited Charles Manson,
the same Jolly West that visited Jack Ruby, the same
Jolly West that visited Tim McVay. Like, okay, open your eyes, people,
like this guy clearly has altered your motives first visiting all.
Speaker 2: These people, I'm telling you, And sorry, no, you.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Okay, Well I was gonna say I'm surprised
that Charles Manson just stayed in prison for so long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, right, I think the same of Dutrell,
don't you know. It's like Mark Dutreux and Belgium, like
he's still in prison. Then it's just fascinating that no
one has that. Basically I expected him to it's almost
like the David Berkowitz thing where he begins to become
willing to blow the whistle. He's doing some interviews and
then all of a sudden his throat is cut in prison,
and they almost I mean, he was so close to death,
it's crazy. And so after that he's like, no, I'm
not saying a word, and he claims it was out
of concern for I think his biological father was the
only person who remained close to him after all of
the scandal of the Son of Sam and everything. But still,
I mean, it's we got Sir Han that's still sitting
in prison, you know, and I'm not I mean, it's
obviously I don't believe he killed RFK, you know. And
and the fact of the matter is neither to his
r FK Junior, if you know. Which is one thing
I believe that he has to say is that he
believes Sir Hans innocent. And uh. He named Thane eugeniusies
Are as his father's killer. Uh. And it's just amazing.
The day that Thane eugenisies Are died, he was running uh,
you know, covert operations for a plausibility deniability cut out.
That was was Apparently it was Robert Mayhew, who was
basically his handler, but he was the right hand man
of Howard Hughes.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, this was like, I got Mark Shaw on
my podcast. You might like to talk to him. He
he wrote all kinds of books about rfk's assassination and
Sir Haan and that whole situation.
Speaker 2: What's his name, Mark Shaw?
Speaker 1: I have his I have his contact information. I'll give
it to you.
Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah, that would be awesome because I've really it would.
I'm looking forward to like scheduling more interviews to do
sort of a dindum episodes on on some of my
solo projects and di to them a little deeper in
a different avenue of thought and things like that. I
think that would be a lot of fun. I think
I'm actually going to try and bring on JJ Vance
from Operation GCD to talk about Pizzagate because I just
saw he dropped one and I was like, oh, that
would be fun. I need to. I've been looking for
an excuse to, you know what else. I was supposed
to go because it was in town this week, right,
and I've never met him personally, but he hit me up.
He's like, hey, man, do you want to go to
Spawn Ranch with me and record some content. And I
was like, oh my gosh, I've been looking for an
excuse to go up there for quite a while. But
at the same time, you know, I was like, I
have an interview unfortunately, but it would that would have
been crazy, right, and just go. I'll have to do
that at some point, just to see because I know
I mean exactly, but I definitely just wanted to. Obviously,
I don't think any of the set from the old
Spawn Ranch studio is still up, but I think, uh,
there's one rock formation that's like almost it's not quite
a cave, but it's like a hollowed out indention in
the ridge line, and I think they conducted some of
their there's basically there LSD fueled sex rituals in a way.
But yeah, be a strange place to walk around them
because just.
Speaker 1: Because you know what happened, like you know, like there's
like too much history, because like if you go to
a place and you don't know, like you don't know
anything about it, then it's.
Speaker 2: Not as much fun exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plus, no, you promised me that you.
Speaker 2: Talk, Okay, I am, I swear I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Because like we could go. I feel like we could
just like talk about whatever for three hours and then
we'll be like, Okay, you want to come back tomorrow
and we'll like you.
Speaker 2: No, this is my plight, But no, I think it's
hard not to because I think everything does overlap so much,
and you can provide reinforcement with these various overlapping contextual examples.
But I do think. So there's a personal friend of
Eric and Dylan, right, which was his name was Eric Vake,
and he was even arrested after he threatening to finish
the job, is what he claimed at Columbine in October
of ninety nine. So it goes from you know, April
to October, and he's still interested in finishing the job, allegedly,
and he's found with a diagram of the school that
he had made and what we're described as a suspicious
journal entry, right, or multiple suspicious journal entries. But none
of this was made public, and Vike was ultimately placed
on like a five hundred thousand dollars bond and sent
to a youth detention center. But I did think very interesting,
you know, just as far as a friend of theirs
that's still psychologically committed in a way, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Also know what happens at youth detention centers.
Speaker 2: Exactly where, and I think programming these kids mm hmm, exactly.
And obviously, the official narrative is that Eric and Dylan
planned this for over around a year and really intended
on the attack primarily being a shooting or I mean
a bombing. And yeah, and only was it secondarily intended
to be a shooting because basically they had all the
homemade bombs they had planted obviously in the school, which
failed to detonate for the most part. But again that
always gave me pause because then I think it was
Dave McGowan in the Anatomy of a School Shooting, which
is the reason why I called my episode, was because
he had written an investigative article just after the shooting happened,
and it is very interesting, but he points out the
fact that how on earth are we supposed to imagine
a world where no members of the just no teachers,
no members of the school security, no one saw them
basically planting explosive devices all throughout the school, and I mean,
it's just too much to imagine. But they also there
was an additional layer where originally in the investigation. The
authorities were considering the notion or the concept that Eric
and Dylan during the weekend's prom party, apparently they had attended.
They were at the school on that Saturday, so they
were saying it's possible that they had actually planted some
of the devices then, but it doesn't really make much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you guys have after proms there wherever
you grew up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way I like, yeah, we had it. Yeah,
Like it was in like the cafeteria or something like.
But if I can't remember though, because now, okay, no,
I remember now, because when I was in high school
prom Yeah, it was basically, uh, after parties were all
at like your homies houses, you know what I mean.
But it was in the gymnasium or something. If you
had like the main prom party was in the gymnasium
and then everybody would go their separate ways.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I grew up in Colorado, right, so like I went
to school like fifteen minutes down the road in Qualifine,
twenty minutes down the road, so like not too far.
We have after prom parties at the school, like, so
we'll go like all of our proms are somewhere else,
like we had prom like a museum and like some
people have prom like the the football stadium, like problems
somewhere else. And then after prom, you have like an
hour in between to get back to the school where
they have set up the school and whatever theme and
it's like the gym, And for our school, it was
like the gym, the hallways, and then the cafeteria and
it's all set up with like different like like hint
of tattoos and different like like like activities to do
all throughout the school until like five am the next morning.
And the goal was to stop after proms being at
people's houses to prevent like duys and deaths and stuff.
Speaker 2: You're totally right. I completely forgot both my junior and
senior year prom experiences so that they were both that
at separate places. One was like at some I think
it was some event center, yeah, like thirty minutes from
the school probably I think in Elvis there or something.
And then and then another one I think we had
at near like this polo field where they would play
polo or something, and and there was like this nice
centered there where they would have weddings and stuff like that.
And I think we had our senior prom or maybe
my junior prom there, but yeah, I think you're you're right,
the after parties would be at like the gym, and
then the rest of us would just if if we
wanted to go to the after party. I think because
that was like my senior year. I can barely remember, right,
Like a lot.
Speaker 1: Of kids don't go. But like like if you're there's
no record of Eric going to prom, not that he
didn't go, we just don't. Like with Dylan, we're like
he went with Robin, but with Eric, we're like, did
he go to prom? We don't know. So if you
don't go to prom, but likelyhood if you're going to
after prom, especially like these outcasts wanting to go to
after problem. Like I was very much like trying to
fit in. So I went to after prom at the school,
but everything's closed down, Like the only thing that's open
is like the gym's open, the cafeterias open, and the
hallways are open, but like everything else is locked. You
can't get into them. Like it's not like you're you
can just wander the school and and there's there's parent
it's like chaperones, there's teachers, there's people everywhere, stopping you
from doing anything weird because they're like worried about kids
like having sex at the school.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you definitely wouldn't. Can't imagine a world where
they're just roaming around freely to plant bombs all over
the school. Yeah right, I mean yeah, it's just fascinating
that this is a part of the official narrative in
the first place.
Speaker 1: But so, okay, I don't think that they were planting
bombs during after prom. Firstly, how did they get them in?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Exactly, I mean, granted, okay, I went to school, it's
what eleven twelve years after them, so like things were different,
but at the same time, like we weren't once we
were at afterpromp like they locked the school. We weren't
leaving until unless our parents came to get us. We
were not leaving until the doors opened at five am
and we could all leave. Well, you're not bringing things
in and out again. It was eleven twelve years after
they were doing this. But were they just like bringing
bombs in, setting them up and then leaving again and
bringing more bombs like that doesn't make any sense to me, No.
Speaker 2: Not at all. It's it's a little bit just too
ridiculous to imagine this is how the the explosive devices
were staged in the school. You know, it doesn't really
fit in my opinion. I think it's just the justification
and the false narrative that they had to somehow find
a way to attach in order for the general public
to essentially be you know, just placated in a way
by by having some type of yeah, excuse or some
in some way providing, you know, just something they could
point to they could attempt to make sense of how
this was conducted. But the no way do I actually
take it seriously as far as the kids themselves placed
planting all the explosives, but I think they had Like.
Speaker 1: This is where I have a hard time, because like
the bombs didn't work. They didn't really go on like
every now and then you'd have a maltav cocktail that did,
but like these bombs didn't explode. So that's where I'm like,
maybe the kids didn't create these bombs because they wouldn't
be very good at it.
Speaker 2: That's true, And I mean I go back and forth.
Was it like twenty seven pipe bombs? I think yeah.
So basically the details of the weapons and ammunition used
in the shooting. There was like a total of one
hundred and eighty eight rounds that were fired allegedly during
the mask or by the perpetrators. So I think it
was Eric fired twice as much as Dylan did, which
was very interesting. Just as far as Eric fired his
carbine rifle like ninety six times, forty seven shots outside,
thirty six shots inside, and thirteen shots in the library,
Harris apparently also discharged his shotgun twenty five times and
twenty one times were in the library for inside the school,
so he did not fire a shotgun outside the school.
But Kleebeold fired the tech nine like fifty five times
and only three shots were outside the rest all thirty
one were inside and twenty one were in the library.
But yeah, it seems like the complex and highly planned
attack involved the several improvised explosive devices. But it was
like a total of ninety nine bombs they had created, yeah,
which is that's a significant number. I mean, and as
I said, twenty seven pipe bombs, forty eight carbon dioxide
cartridges that were filled with gunpowder they called crickets, right,
which is one of which I remember one of the
victim witnesses accounts in the in the the cafeteria just
claimed that he like dealing through one of the crickets
toward cord a victim that he was basically attempting to kill,
but wasn't really concerned with, you know, following it through
very much. And it was very strange. But then the
propane bombs also, which we're using the cafeteria, I think
you had two that were found in the shooter's cars, right,
and there was another location as well, in an open
field near the smoking hangout I think where it went off.
But it was ultimately.
Speaker 1: Backpack, right you're talking about, Yes, it was. So it
was like two main streets over and like three miles south, right, Okay,
And it did go off, But this is what I
don't again, what I don't understand. So it had been
snowing in the days like leading up to this, and
so like the ground was wet. So you have this
like bomb in this backpack that it's supposed to be
a distraction, and then they put it out right away
because like it's not like it's lighting a bunch of stuff.
It's just like it went off and they were a
small fire. They put it out like the ground's wet,
like it's not going to do anything exactly.
Speaker 2: They concluded that it was exactly that, that it was
intended to be a diversion apparently. And but yeah, they
had they I mean, they understood how to create explosive
devices to a certain extent because they understood how to
at least basically provide the ignition, you know, which was
I think storm matches. They had Canon fuses and model
rocket igniters, as well as these timing devices that were
built from alarm clocks, so that was for the propane bombs.
And then they carried match strikers that they taped their
forms for easy ignition for the pipe bombs and steal
two bombs apparently whenever they were walking through the school.
But yeah, Harris was experimenting with nay palm at some point,
like this was documented, and and he envisioned creating a
sort of backpack flamethrower, right, and he that was apparently
something he wanted to do, and they both I guess,
attempted to get another friend, Chris Morris, who I remember
I put one of his interviews in the episode, and
he was obviously a member allegedly a member of the TCM.
The trench coat mafia and that tread well he had, Yeah,
I think so, because he basically he gave the backpack
to the backpack had the basement tapes that he had
in his bag when the shooting all began, and he
just goes to the office and leaves the backpack with
the tape there. Very strange. Yeah, Now, in every way
his story seems like he was he understood what was
about to take place and in some sort of fashion
was intended to either play a role that more significantly
than he actually did. Because if you're I think it was.
He was the one who was officially arrested and apprehended
as a suspect originally, and he was all upset because
they they were treating him as a suspect instead of
as a like a witness. Right, But again, very strange,
and I mean to be experimenting with napalm in the
first place. But then they try and recruit Chris Morris,
the same kid, to apparently keep the napalm at his house,
but he claims to have refused. And then Harris also
tried to attempt to recruit him to be the third shooter,
but he played He said that Eric played it off
as a joke when he rejected the offer, which is,
I don't know, it seems pretty convenient honestly in hindsight,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well everything I feel like everything about Chris Moore,
I don't believe his story at all. And then like
his interviews.
Speaker 2: Afterwards, they're so strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's something weird about that guy, Like he
knew what was going on, Like he was very well
aware of the whole thing. That's why he was conveniently
like not there. And then he conveniently came back to
the school because his friend's dad was a teacher there,
and they're like they were at home playing video games
and now they need to come back because something's going on.
Speaker 2: Exactly. He claims that what his I think his dad
told him. I think his dad claimed that Chrisk called
him and told him that something was happening at the school,
and he's worried that it was Dylan and Eric. Yeah right,
So I mean.
Speaker 1: That before anybody knew who it was or like what
was going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just insane to me. But yeah, uh, I
honestly I felt like just for everyone to get a
glimpse at at the on the ground situation and a
little bit of the media spotlight there. Uh, there's a
pretty good eyewitness news ABC report from the moment. But
let me see if I can actually share this the
right way the first time instead of last time. Hold on,
let me see close request. Did you see the request
that I just said? Okay, okay, cool, cool? All right
now if I remember I had to yeah share sound
there we go. Okay, can you see this now? I?
Speaker 1: Oh, there it is okay.
Speaker 4: Creation into the high school massacre is slow moving and dangerous.
The two gunmen who went on the rampage booby trapped
the building and even themselves. All day long, investigators have
searched the homes of both teenage killers. In one of them,
police say they found bomb making materials. Specially trained officers
searching the school today found close to thirty explosive devices
all around the building. Authorities have also revised the death toll,
now saying fifteen people were killed, including the two gunmen.
Most of the bodies are still inside the school, but
families of the murder victims have been notified. And Jay
Burwett begins our coverage. He is live in Lyttleton, Colorado.
In Jay and Roz.
Speaker 5: We're being kept far away. The building off in the
distance is still sealed off, as you said, the bodies
have not yet been removed. A total of fifteen people
are believed to have died here, twelve students, one faculty member,
and the two young killers. Investigators say this attack peers
who have been carefully planned for a long time.
Speaker 6: One by one, students returned to Columbine High and left
bouquets of flowers in a park half a mile away.
Speaker 2: A little bit of pain, little bit of everything at once.
It's deep, you know, but it's got to be strong.
Speaker 5: Parents.
Speaker 7: Hug your kids, be happy that you're with them. Kids,
Grab your friends, puld them tight, and never be mad
at people, because it could happen in a second that
they'll be gone.
Speaker 6: Investigators found their first pipe bomb in the parking lot,
and the Denver bomb Squad immediately sealed off the building.
Robotic cameras later found the entire school was booby trapped.
Eric Harris and Dylan Cleebold had apparently committed suicide, but
investigators say they spent their final moments rigging the building
and their own bodies with more than two dozen pipe bombs.
Amid the gunshots and bomb blasts, hundreds of students ran
for their lives, stalked in their own school by two
of their own classmates who went on a rampage.
Speaker 7: They're getting shot all around me.
Speaker 1: There was a guy at a table right next to us,
next to me and her, and they just shot him
and then walked away, and then he was just sitting
there in a pool of blood.
Speaker 6: Detectives now believe they entered the school through a back
door and stormed down the hallways. They cornered students in
the cafeteria and the library, where there was nowhere to run.
Witnesses say they laughed as they fired their weapons, executing
their classmates who begged for their lives.
Speaker 3: They were shooting anyone of color wearing a white hat
or played a sport, and they didn't care who it was,
and it was all at close range, screaming.
Speaker 8: After they'd shoot up something, they'd go, whoo, just a
pleasure for him.
Speaker 6: This morning, students packed a prayer.
Speaker 2: That's part of that made me think clearly they were
potentially in this delusional dream state if they were actually
conducting any of this on the ground. In terms of
if we're meant to believe the actions and movements of
Dylan and Eric in the school, then the only way
that I could justify that they were willing to go
through with this. Now, obviously I'm willing to imagine a
world where someone is psychologically broken to this state and
willing to engage in such sinister forms of violence. But
at the same time, if we're considering all the other
factors involved in elements in this case, then it's impossible
not to consider the idea that they could have been
in this psychological state of mind where they believed they
were almost in the doom Wad levels that they had
created from the video game that modeled the diagram of
the school. And it's almost like, imagine if that was
a part of their conditioning, like Sir Han at the
shooting range, going through the reinforcement of the layers of programming,
and you just think you're walking through through the doom
Wade level that resembles the school that you played so
many times while you were under your your hypnotic conditioning trance.
Whatever the case may be, I just thought as possible,
But I won't play this too much longer.
Speaker 1: I just think especially takes the way that they wandered
through the school, like like we talked about before we
started recording, like they definitely could have done a lot
more damage and then they didn't. So like your theory
actually makes a lot more sense because like they after
they left the library, like they killed all those kids
in the library, then they left the library, and then
they kind of like just wandered through the school aimlessly,
like randomly shooting their guns. They like wandered through whatever,
like like they were like in a fake place, and
like they didn't kill anybody else, Like they just wandered
eventually back to the library where they killed themselves.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's so strange, honestly, but again, I
just felt like this news report brings you back to
the moment for at least the a I think it's
important too. That's what I try and do with all
my solo projects is reflect back to what it felt
like to have been there, you know, as much as possible,
and to almost evoked that specific emotional state in a
way as well, because I think it's so lost in
translation in terms of just the memory whole nature of
the demortalization news cycle and in the fast pace of
just again, these major impact just as far as far
as like emotion arousing, violent false flags are just immediately
the short memory of the general population is just extraordinary. Right,
So unfortunately we're doomed to repeat so much of the
same playbook because the pattern recognition doesn't exist. And I think, yeah,
only to the few and exclusive members of right the
objective truth movement who are attempting to make sense of
any of the official narratives connected to these cases tend
to actually expose themselves enough to get a working theory
as to what's a little bit more plausible in terms
of how this played out. But anyway, I'll end this
here in just a minute. But I did think it's
just fascinating to actually hear some of the students recalling
this event.
Speaker 6: Service at a local church and stood in the parking lot,
embraced one another and wiped away their tears. Graduation was
less than two weeks away. Amber Burgess is Columbine High
School's homecoming Queen.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if people are going to be
able to walk back in the school again and seek
empty chairs, and it'll be horrible.
Speaker 5: Now they have been attempting to identify the bodies inside
the school all day today. At a news conference just
a few minutes ago, the county prosecutor updated reporters on
their efforts to identify the bodies.
Speaker 9: We have completed tentative notifications to I believe all of
the family members of the people who are still inside
the school. Only two of the victims have been removed
at least the last time I was down down at
the scene. We have a number of others that are
still at the scene. But we've completed those tentative identifications
to the families and notified them that based on descriptions
and other criteria that they have provided to us, that
we've been able to identify them.
Speaker 5: That now the latest word from the county prosecutor. Here
once again a recap. Fifteen people dead, sixteen people hospitalized,
five of them in critical condition. Lives and I Littleton, Colorado,
and Jay Burkett's seven.
Speaker 10: Eyewitness sneers all right, NJ. Thank you, President Clinton, saying
he and his aides are struggling to understand why all
of this happened. The President said early intervention is the
key to preventing trouble.
Speaker 8: We must all do more to recognize and look for
the early warning signals that deeply troubled young people send
often before they explode into violence. Surely more of them
can be saved and more innocent victims and tragedies can
be avoided.
Speaker 10: The White House as President Clinton, may visit Littleton, Colorado
at a time when it is best for the community.
Speaker 4: Ross the two killers belong to a group of students
that named itself the trench Coat Mafia, and we are
beginning to learn more about these teenagers. Stacy Sager is
live in the eyewitness newsroom with that side of the story.
Speaker 11: Stacy well ros They wore black trench coats, combat boots,
and some were Nazi crosses. They hated jocks, loved the Internet,
and were fascinated by World War Two. They were known
as the trench Coat Mafia. The question is why didn't
anyone know they turned so violent? The clues were here
in Littleton long before the deadly violence. The yearbook pictures
with handwritten captions about insanity. This alleged trench Coat Mafia
website shut down shortly after.
Speaker 1: ABC News took these pictures.
Speaker 11: It even had a so called hit list mentioning jocks
and one substitute teacher as potential targets, and there were
the outfits the dark coat and boots associated with Hollywood's
more violent scenes, but no one knew the talk would
become reality.
Speaker 12: I think it's just a gang of about like twenty
guys to call themselves the trench Coat Mafia.
Speaker 2: Hey, like we're.
Speaker 12: Trench coats every day to school, like, and we're makeup
and like craze their nails and stuff. Right, They're just
like everyone kind of thinks somebody's difference and they always
just to hang out with themselves.
Speaker 13: Only I mean they looked like, yeah, they sort of
had vibes of, you know, not exactly loving everyone, but
I mean they never walked around the halls, you know,
saying you know, you're all gonna die.
Speaker 11: Students also say that members of the small suburb and
gang bragged about their guns and AMMO. One cyber chatter
even recalled a previous warning that a certain El Caress
wrote about preparing for the big April twentieth, You're all
gonna be sorry. Terrorism experts widely know that this time
of year has been extremely violent throughout history. April nineteenth
is the anniversary of many painful moments from Waco to
Ruby Ridge to Oklahoma City, and this past. April twentieth
was the one hundred and tenth anniversary of Adolph Hitler's birthday.
Speaker 14: April twentieth might just turn out to be a what
a shed date for an event such as what occurred
in Colorado and might in the future precipitate other types
of events like this.
Speaker 11: Experts we talked to feel it is tragic the isolation
and hatred went undetected at the school.
Speaker 1: Yet they say the.
Speaker 11: Key to preventing future violence may really lie with parents
and kids at home. Teach them.
Speaker 6: They allowed to express their anger and words they are none.
Speaker 2: I thought it was so perfect that she has a
very obvious German accent. I'm like, they chose the perfect
woman to talk about essentially. Uh, you know what I
think is the most ridiculous part of what the government
pushes in this context, which is, uh, you know, obviously
there there's some sort of guilt that is associated inherently
with the parents and involved, right and and basically there
should be these early warning signs, as as Clinton himself
had mentioned. And and that is something that I very
much think is a part of infiltrating the family dynamic
and the family unit in itself. And this would be
a clear and obvious, obvious, uh kind of avenue for
for achieving something such as that.
Speaker 1: But they immediately answer that or say that there's gonna
be copycats. They're like, there's going to be more of these.
It's like the according to their narrative, there hasn't been before,
even though like in my episode, I proved that there
have been school shootings since the beginning of our country.
But anyway, like there, yeah, there's going to be like copycats.
Speaker 2: Like and of course I think the Columbine effect did
very much put this on the map as far as
school shootings in terms of of the psychological uh you
know effect in itself, as far as it becoming this
new almost replacing the serial killer narrative, which in many
ways I feel like is manufactured and by design because
it's it's just another way that you can destabilize modern
society and this domestic form. And and I think, you know,
the nickname that just as far as the nicknames they
had provided to the pipe bombs themselves were very interesting
and almost revealing it at a certain stage. And it
was Eric had a website that had all these various
instructions on how to make pipe bombs and molotovs. And
by the way, the ghera affidavit which would have provided
a legitimate pretext for obtaining a search warrant to search
through Eric Harris's property, which should have taken place a
year exactly after the van break in where he and
Dylan are essentially caught in the act and by the
arresting officer who I believed to have potentially sexually abused them,
and that was yeah. He had John DeCamp who was
a former Nebraska state senator who made this claim specifically,
and they even claimed they had an internal tape that
they had had I guess in some way it was
within the Jefferson County Police Department. They had this tape
that was labeled in evidence but also hidden in gone missing,
which was called the Tim Walsh butt rape tape, and
it was yeah. Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Ti Tim Walsh
was the arresting officer for Eric Harris and seemed on
the van break and leading up to the mass shooting.
So what happened is basically, there had been all of
these prior run ins with authorities from Jefferson County, and
Eric himself had already gotten multiple calls. One of the
neighbors of Wayne Harris and Eric, Wayne's father. One of
the neighbors of the family basically called the authorities and
reported the fact that Eric had burned up one of
their trees, had set it on fire, and like had
actually also it was one of their friends who what
was his name? He had also done many different interviews
following the It was Brooks Brown, right, who Yeah, he
was also one of the scribe.
Speaker 1: He's an interesting character because he's the guy and Eric
hates right and then all of a sudden they're like
on good terms again. And then that he sees Eric
sees Brooks as they're like walking past each other as
Eric's on his way to go shoot up the school,
and it's like, hey, Brooks, get on out of here
because something weird is gonna happen. And Brook's like, Roger,
that my guy, I'm out, Like I know.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it is the most ridiculous story as
far as what Brooks claimed to happen the morning of right,
And it's just like something that I think it's hard
to imagine that both these friends, you know, Morris and
Brooks were providing an official timeline that that would fit
anything other than you know, almost in a certain sense
obviously removing any potential guilt, and it seemed like an
alibi in a real way. But yeah, I don't know.
It's very strange to actually go through what he claims happened, obviously,
because he warns Eric allegedly warns Brooks to leave, and
I think it was Eric and Dylan showed up at
school at like six point fifteen, right, so it's the
same as any other morning, allegedly. But then there are
all these subsequent reports that they left the school at
an undisclosed time and they don't quite know when. But
this was apparently for them to change their clothes before
the attack, but the details about when and where is
obviously not documented properly. But you had the Eric and
Dylan leaving to change their clothes in one of the
Columbine report diagrams, I think, which basically showed them returning
separately to Columbine High School, and it was around I
think just before eleven, right.
Speaker 1: Like just before and just after they like like kind
of sandwiched the eleven.
Speaker 2: O'clock hour exactly. So then as they arrived separately back
on campus, they're wearing the wrapped round sunglasses and the
black trench coats. Right, And Harris arrives at like eleven
around then, as you said, and parks his vehicle and
the junior student parking lot. I didn't think it was
interesting they parked in different parking lots.
Speaker 1: But Harris, if you so, I've been to Columbine several
times just because, like I went there for different like
competitions and stuff. So the there are the junior and
the senior parking lots. They're on like opposite sides of
the school. So if they were going to blow up,
like logically they're going to blow up their cars, they're
now in different parking lots, so potentially it would cause
more damage damage, right versus both of them being the
same parking lots exactly.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense. And but yeah, I mean Brooks Brown, right.
He's he had recently patched up a longstanding series of
disputes with Eric, and he tells the He tells the
Jefferson County Sheriff's office that he had been smoking a
cigarette when he was surprised to see Eric, who he
earlier noted had been absent from a class test. So
he claims Eric was a great student, unlikely to miss
school or any school days, especially with an important test
or academic obligation, is what he said. And so brown
says that he then berates Eric from missing the test,
and Harris acted entirely unconcerned and replied it doesn't matter anymore.
And Harris allegedly tells Brooks Brooks, I like you now,
get out of here, go home. So that's when Brooks
apparently claims he's feeling uneasy and already prepared to skip
his next class, walked away down South Pierce Street. So yeah,
and then about ten to fifteen minutes later, you have
Eric entering the school through the west entrance, and then
Dylan arrives back around eleven ten, apparently in parks in
the adjoining senior student parking lot as you'd mentioned. So again,
it's just interesting to me that story, right that Brooks
provided for Again, he's tipped off to leave the school,
you know, it's just it's very strange that they would go.
I don't know, I can't imagine that interaction actually taking place, right,
But you know, that's just my personal view on it.
But I will say that the nickname Pipe bombs. Like
I was mentioning earlier, they're interesting because it does look
like not only was there all of the were there
are all of these instructions about how to make and
craft these bombs and molotops, but apparently the extensive use
of shrapnel was a part of what was portrayed on
his website. So but yeah, Wayne Harris the father, he
even discovered one of the pipe bombs leading up to
the date of the shooting. And yeah, Harris's journal logged
the creation of twenty five bype bombs in total. And
Dylan scared his coworkers at Blackjack Pizza by bringing a
pipe bomb into work and they so they named some
of these bombs. And after the massacre, two pipe bombs
had been left in Dylan's bedroom. One was given the
name Vengeance and another Atlanta, which was assumed to have
been named after the Olympic Park bombing apparently, And so
you know, it makes sense, but they had eight propane
tanks all converted into bombs, and just the weekend prior
just before the shooting, Harris and Dylan and uh, they
bought two pro paane tanks and other I think a
few other supplies. At the hardware store. Yeah, and then
it was like six pro Paine tanks on the morning
of the attack that I think Eric had had bought
right at a gas station because some security camera had
picked him up at the gas station. He was buying
like blue rhino propane tanks. But interesting for you to
purchase those the morning of though you knowing this for
over a year. Yeah, well that seems like last minute,
you know, just prepping. But mm hmm, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 13: Uh.
Speaker 2: I think the most important part is that you have
obviously the federal involvement right that on the on the
ground Columbine. That's just fascinating to me. And also, uh,
I think it was Eric had nicknamed one of the
pipe bombs the Phoenix program, and I thought that was
very strange because obviously that connects to the origin of
nk Ultra in many ways and just as far as
the military experimentations utilizing mind control and yeah, so again
I think that's where Jolly West got his most of
his experience in that line of just as far as
the mind control avenue of experimentation, and that was all
through the Phoenix project. So it makes a lot of sense.
But again, you have all of these strange federal authorities
that integrated themselves into every level of the investigation. And
it was the FBI vault documents, which were obviously there's
a portion that references Columbine and it was released via FOYA. Basically,
the internal document was dated for the day of the massacre,
so it says to date. The FBI sole responsibility in
this investigation is to assist Jefferson County, Colorado authorities as requested.
This includes providing two evidence response teams, the Denver bomb Technicians,
the SWAT team, and a number of agents used for
interviewing purposes. The FBI continues liason with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms in the US Attorney's Office for Colorado. The
Denver SWAT Team assisted with the securing of a perimeter
of the Columbine High School and evacuating students. The Denver
ert which is obviously the evidence response team, has been
conducting crime scene investigations, including the crime scene investigation regarding
the two fatalities outside of the school building, which, by
the way, Danny Roharbaugh I believe was a student who
I think was killed as he was attempting to flee
from the school, and I think he was shot and
killed brutally outside on the sidewalk, And they later shifted
the official narrative to claim that he was shot by
Dylan and Eric I forget which one on the stairwell
just leading up to the exit. Yeah, And I don't
believe that was true because you have one of the
original members of the Jefferson County Police Office who were responding,
one of the first responders. They claimed they had witnessed
one of the police officers, one of their co workers,
who were also one of the first to respond, apparently
having a happy trigger finger and pulling the trigger irresponsibly
as soon as Danny ran out onto the sidewalk, murdering
him in cold blood.
Speaker 1: That makes so much sense because they found twelve gage
shotgun shells, they found nine millimeter, and they found forty
caliber rounds at the scene, right, So they have all
this in evidence, And I'm like, that doesn't make any
sense because we know that the that both shooters were
carrying a nine millimeter and a shotgun, a twelve gage shotgun.
Where's that forty Where are those forty cows cut like
forty milimeters rounds come from?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: But then my husband pointed out, and he was like,
if they're exchanging fire like gunfire with police, normally the
police will carry like forty calib Yeah, And I was like, oh, okay,
Like that makes sense. But then does I guess? I
didn't look at and I should have. I did poor
research on my part. I didn't look at every single
autopsy report I looked at because I just assumed, and
I don't know why. I you know, what they say
about assuming. I assumed that the autopsy would say exactly
what the official narrative says, which is like nine millimeters
or twelve gage shotguns. But what I did discover in
the autopsy report for Dylan is that his autopsy's weird.
So it's like eight pages long. The first couple of
pages says that there's no powder stipling against his head
and that it was a large, large caliber round that
shot him. And then the second half of the autopsy
says that there is stippling and that it was a
nine milimeter.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense as far as how they
officially committed suicide. I think none of it. Actually, in
my opinion, I feel like they were more than likely murdered, right,
That's what it looks like to me, especially the way
their bodies were positioned. It seems as if in no
way did they At one point, I think it was
so disputed just due to the fact that it was
impossible for one of them to actually go through with
killing themselves at the angle that they found their body in,
and I think that was and honestly, and so they
were actually making the assessment that it was potentially possible
that Eric had shot him before killing himself.
Speaker 1: But that's not possible either. Did you see the picture
m hm, And you have Dylan's blood on Eric's like
pant leg yep.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm telling you. It seems like because it
was at one point the authorities were unsure whether they
were even alive in the building still and yet did
not enter, which is very interesting. It wasn't until the
swat team arrived that they actually started to go through
the building. But it was like one thirty when there
was an armored car that was brought to the school
interest the school entrance and apparently was for cover what
they claimed as all these students were fleeing the building.
And then like two you had three kids in black
clothes but not trench coats, but were apprehended by the
police in a field near the school, allegedly, and they
were later described as friends of the gunmen, but were
released without for the questioning, apparently. And and so then
you have by two thirty local you had local UH
or the swat team entering the teacher's lounge, and they
began to secure the lower lower level, apparently by framing
some of the kids in the kitchen and bathrooms and stuff.
And then obviously I think they were all sent to
Leewood Elementary or something like that. And and but yeah,
it's very interesting because obviously the at around four thirty,
it took that long for them to finally find the
Dylan and Eric shot in the library. Yeah, but yeah,
self inflicted is what they claim, obviously, but one of
the two found laying on on the pistol, both still
covered in ammunition and explosives. They were surrounded by the
other ten students they killed, right, is what they were saying, obviously.
But by four do you have the sheriff that's making
an estimate of twenty five people dead, which I thought
was interesting, fifty wounded and referred to it as a
suicide mission. But yeah, it was like, not till four
thirty did they declare the school actually safe though, But yeah, anyway,
I thought it was very strange. Oh go go ahead, No, no, no,
you're good. What'd you find?
Speaker 11: So?
Speaker 1: What I found interesting is that they have the swat
coming in to the to the room, the science room
that Dave Sanders, the teacher, had been shot. Right, you
have these students administering first aid to this guy for hours.
They have been in there, like three hours administering first
aid and keeping him alive, and then the swat comes
in and they're like, you all need to leave, and
the students, allegedly from all the information that I found,
they were like nervous. They're like, we don't want to
leave him, like he's dying, and they had ignored like
the note that said like one bleeding to death. Yeah,
like they had ignored all this. And then they're like, no, no,
we have paramedics right behind us.
Speaker 2: You leave.
Speaker 1: They left, and then Swatt moves his body into like
an adjoining room and then he bleeds to death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like.
Speaker 1: He would not have bled to death if those students
had continued to administer first aid. He could have survived.
Had paramedics come right then to relieve the students, but
instead they're like, you leave, paramedics are on their way.
Speaker 13: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so crazy to actually hear what they would
were claimed. Obviously they believed that the authorities response is
what caused his death. Obviously, yeah, because he wouldn't have
been stuck in there bleeding to death for all that time,
you know. And yeah, it was bleeding to death was
the sign that they had put on there, and it
was in an attempt, obviously to get Coach Saunders I
think was his name, some assistance, because I think they
even pulled out like a student right who apparently knew
how to administer first date or something of that effect.
Speaker 1: The teachers weren't doing it. They left it to two
students to administer first ADID to this guy when teachers
were in the room too.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, it seems like none of them had
any proper training whatsoever, according to their statements, that this child,
this student was the only person, even though wouldn't you
imagine they had a med teacher or something like pre
med that like taught the student how to administer you know,
first date in the first place. I don't know I.
Speaker 1: Don't think it even matters, Like you're natural, You're naturally
gonna apply pressure, right, Like, what is the student doing
that's so much different than what the teacher could be doing.
Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy that they actually were willing to
just walk past and not even secure any of the
classrooms whatsoever, you know, for hours, which how can you
move through the building and not secure any of the classrooms.
But I don't know, that's just the official narrative. But
it was after they left the library, right is when
they caused a fire in a store empty storage closet
and that was apparently around the science area or something,
but it was extinguished by a teacher who was hiding
in the adjacent room at the time. But they then
basically at one point captured on the school security cameras
they re entered the cafeteria. Obviously, it shows Harris crouching
against the rail on the staircase. I pulled that, so
I watched all three hours and thirty three minutes by
the way of the only available security footage. I thought
so too from it. I mean, it was like, as
soon as I saw the complete duration of the only
footage we have from Columbine security cameras has three hours
and thirty three minutes. I was like, stop it right now,
trying why are you doing this to me? Yeah, it was,
but anyway, it.
Speaker 1: Was thirty three seconds long, Like three hours, thirty three
minutes and thirty three seconds.
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, but yeah, anyway, they they so he's it
was strange to actually witness him, you know, firing that
toward the propane tanks and stuff in the cafeteria on
the stairwells. But I was just trying to see if
any of his movements looked robotic, looked you know, sort of.
You know, I was just trying to exactly, but you know,
they're just not enough footage and most of the time
they're not even in the the rooms where the cameras
are recording. And by the way, the janitor perfectly timed
the moment where they changed the security cams, which would
have shown them allegedly, that was the window of opportunity
and the timing that would have provided us with the
footage which we never saw and never will see because
they conveniently the janitor had had changed out the tapes
and so we lost the footage of when Dylan and
Eric were bringing in the bags with some of the
pipe bombs and things and ammunition, and they apparently placed
their bags with all the rest of the backpacks and
student bags and stuff, uh in the cafeteria whenever they
came in allegedly, But how are we supposed to know
because we don't have the footage. So again you have
I think it was Patrick Ireland or on one of
I think that was the name of the survivor. But
it's it's very strange because no.
Speaker 1: Out the window.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the guy like the window, I know, right,
And why did it take them so long to even
get him down? It's the whole thing was strange. But
again it's like they were attempting to even bring down
the library on top of the cafeteria I think is
what they wanted the explosive devices to accomplish, to maximize
casualties as well. Yeah, but yeah, obviously that didn't play out.
But they had allegedly killed themselves by twelve oweight, that's
the official narrative. So twelve o eight before thirty we
have this is the duration of police response until the
school itself is.
Speaker 1: Is it's been there? They were called at eleven twenty three,
which was what like, I'm trying to think, like ten
minutes after the shooting.
Speaker 2: Has they started the shooting at like eleven thirteen to
eleven fifteen or something like that, So no, I think.
Speaker 1: They got there. They arrived at eleven twenty three is
when the police, like the first police officer got there.
Speaker 2: My god, And you're like, oh yeah, talking.
Speaker 1: So you're just like watching all of this happen from
outside and doing nothing, Like what is your job if
this is happening, like not at a school. Let's say
we're at a mall.
Speaker 2: You're not running in exactly. No, this was the most
you know, just irresponsible, but more than likely. You know,
it feels like it was the police response required to
maximize casualties. That's what it feels like to me, and
as terrible as that sounds, but just to kind of
reinforce the strange suicide, right, and how this allegedly took place.
Harris sat down with his back to a bookshelf and
fired his shotgun through the roof of his mouth. Cleebold
went down on his knees and allegedly shot himself in
the left temple with his Tech nine. But again, it's
the autopsies. Obviously it seemed to not run very parallel
to the official version of events, right, But we've seen
this kind of play out a little too often in
my opinion. But yeah, anyway, I thought, just to mention again,
I had, you know, obviously that you have the evidence
response teams and the strained federal involvements and everything happening here,
But you also had the crime scene investigations being conducted
by the federal authorities and out from under the Jefferson
County investigators. But that included obviously not only outside of
the school, but the vehicles in the school parking lot
as well. But they had Denver bomb technicians which had
been provided by the FBI, and they were assisting EOD
personnel in searching for numerous explosives at the school, in
vehicles and at various residences as well. But here's the
bizarre twist of events. During the massacre, there were significant
communication challenges, which obviously highlighted the issues in commanding control systems.
So on the day of the shooting, a FEMA communications
van was deployed to the area in order to assist
local authorities. This van was allegedly part of the federal
response to the crisis. This reminds me of Sandy Hook
every time, because you had the FEMA comms man there.
You have a man in Camo with an ar running
through the woods being detained and then freed and let
go with no additional questioning whatsoever. Just too many flagrants,
kind of obscurities or just strange. There's no way in
hell that you can sort of allow that to occur
and not imagine a world where there's direct involvement there obviously,
But so not only do you have the FEMA Comms
van deployed to assist the local authorities for communications, you
have this very van as a part of the federal
response to the crisis, providing essential communication support to coordinate
efforts among various emergency response teams. So the unusual involvement
is obviously worth mentioning because of this US major general
who was directly responsible for coordinating resources during the response
to the Columbine incident. Now, his presence obviously highlights the
significant military and federal support that was strategically mobilized during
this very crisis. In the major general's role included overseeing
the coordination of resources, ensuring that local law enforcement and
emergency services received the necessary support, and apparently obviously this
feels like unprecedented involvement in a way, especially directly after
a school shooting takes place for both FEMA and military
leadership to be on the ground at Columbine, which really
underscores the effective nature of this sinister operation and strategy
of tension in my opinion.
Speaker 1: But also it's not like the military's job, it's the
FBI's job. So to me, Like when the FBI was
brought in, I was like, that makes total sense, right,
with something of this magnitude that is unprecedented at that point, Like,
it totally makes sense to me that the FBI would
be called in and that Jeff co would heavily rely
on the FBI. That makes sense. The fact that the
military was brought in doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
And like where Littleton is, like there's not I mean,
Lockheed martin is very close, like the low key that's there,
but there's not like a military base super close to that.
Don't don't get me wrong, there are plenty in the area,
but not like really close to like Columbine.
Speaker 2: Right, No, And again, where's that guy station is.
Speaker 1: He at Buckley. Is he down at Peterson, Is he
at Fort Carson? Like those were in Colorado Springs? I
mean Buckley is an Aurora, but like that's still on
the other side of town.
Speaker 2: Right. And if if Dylan and Eric were dead since
twelve oh eight, right, and shots were being heard ringing
out from Columbine at three point five pm? Yeah, how
in hell is that possible? You have more than two
hundred law enforcement officers and four swat teams that tried
to stop Dylan and Eric allegedly and evacuate the wounded students.
How did this happen? You know, It's just there's no
way in hell. And I think one of the original
first officials who were quoted by saying they essentially said,
we had initial people there right away, but we couldn't
get in. We were way out gunned.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: That's insane to me because you have the commander of
the Jefferson County swat team who claimed, I just knew
the killers were armed and were better equipped than we were.
Speaker 1: How do you know that? Who told you that? Also?
How do we know that they had like, how do
you guys know that they had bombs? How do you
know you needed the bomb squad and the swat, Like,
how did you know all those things? Because like you
don't have students coming out and saying like they've got bombs.
You got students coming out saying they have guns, they're
shooting at us.
Speaker 2: Same with all the teachers who called the authorities, you know,
in the night, nobody dispatcher, no one mentioned the bombs.
Speaker 1: Because bombs did not go off, because yeah, they were
rigged right supposedly, but like those.
Speaker 2: Are only they did. No, all they did was start
a fire, that's it. And and it basically just smoked
out the area and led to a major cover as
far as smoke cover for the security camera footage, which
I found very interesting, just like if you wanted to conveniently,
you know, just cloud the vision of our ability to
even understand what happened by viewing the security camera footage,
you would provide almost the cloud cover of the smoke
just for that very purpose, you know. But that's the
way I look at the Boston marathon bombing. I think
the second blast was to provide the cover for the
crisis actors to conveniently you know, basically, they you had
all these strange movements and these military grade Moulage and
these blood squib squib assemblies that were all attached to. Now,
this is legitimate, and it's something that I think people
don't just consider enough, which is the notion of legitimate
crisis actors being utilized in some of these emotions, arousing
a violent false flags for that very purpose. And you know, anyway,
but that's a whole nother story. But I just think
that you know, the the it was the reaction of
the authorities and the response that really I think should
provide everyone with the most pause or you know, give
everyone pause in that moment, because it's the most clear
and obvious window into how you would officially allow something
like this to take place and then maximize the impact
I think.
Speaker 1: And yeah, just those two shooters in there.
Speaker 2: I do. I think there's additional gunment, and I think
that we have legitimate evidence and with witness testimony and
victim witness accounts of their being even more than three,
which I think is fascinating.
Speaker 1: Why do you think there's not as many deaths?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 1: Yes, because I agree that there's a lot of witnesses
that say there's more than just Dilton and Eric, but like,
there's just not as many deaths to.
Speaker 2: Prove that. I guess I think the death toll from
Columbine did not only apply to the massacre, right, And
I think that you see this mounting death toll following
the event itself, which isn't it's not really acknowledged, it's
it's basically for the most part, very much under acknowledged.
And I think that's with this key witnesses and these
related persons who all died after the shooting. And one
of them was the mother of a Columbine victim, yeah,
who allegedly killed herself, right, but yeah, she she ends
up walking into a pawn shop and asked to see
a handgun and then blew her brands out right in
the pawn shop. And it was June Karla June Hoe
Caulter was her name. But yeah, just six months after
her seventeen year old daughter and Anne Marie survived the
Columbine massacres.
Speaker 1: So very stream recently died too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And they even claimed that what it
was due to, like they I think they claimed she
had died because of the Columbine massacre and died of
sepsis like twenty.
Speaker 1: Years twenty five, like literally six years later, last year
she died and they're like, yeah, it's because of the
Columbine shooting.
Speaker 2: So we have another death attributed to Columbine. Yeah, twenty
five years later, basically, which is just insane to me.
But again, you have Robert Patterson, nineteen year old April
twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, nine days after the massacre,
had spent time in jail, hangs himself at his home
in Wheatbridge, Colorado. His mom told investigators she thought he
did it because he didn't want to go to jail again.
Then you have weeks after the massacre and Twine Johnson,
a close friend of the Shoals family, who was the
black victim from the cafeteria who was shot to death
in the parking lot apparently. And this Antoine Johnson was
shot to death in a parking lot on May of
nineteen ninety nine, and no charges were filed. Case was
left unsolved. Said that Johnson was helping the Shoals family
investigate the massacre and he simply quote new too much.
Speaker 1: Oh man, they killed him.
Speaker 2: July fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Colorado Secretary of State Vicky
Buckley collapses and dies at age fifty one. She was
close to the Scholes family, the same family and was
helping them find the truth about the Columbine massacre. So
I same day go ahead. No.
Speaker 1: I found it was really interesting. So I talked to
my friend, like I said, I have lots of friends
in the area that know people. So my one friend,
his brother was there. He was a freshman at Columbine
the day of the shooting, like the year right, but
my friend was not. My friend was in elementary school,
so he went years later. He actually lived in the
same neighborhood as the Shoals and was like, it's really weird.
All this guy, like I called him and I was like,
tell me about Columbine, and he told me the official narrative.
This The only reason I'm bringing this up is because
of what you're saying right now about Scholes family. Because
at the time he was like, yeah, the Scholes family,
Like it was weird. They just like all of a
sudden like left, like they just moved away, and they
just like stopped caring and nobody cared about like they
just like gave up. And I was like, that's weird
because like in a lot of the research that I did,
like it seemed like they were digging and he's like, no,
like they just moved away and they just stopped caring,
and everyone gave them a really hard time because they
just stopped, like, they stopped talking about it. Nobody, they
never brought it up again. They didn't care about their
son that had died, and I was like, that's so
weird that they would like not care about their son
that just tied at this Columbine shooting that was very
traumatic for them, and everything that I'm finding says that
they were really digging in and then you say.
Speaker 2: This, I'm telling you it looks like bodies were dropping
all around them. And at that point, what are you
going to do? You know, It's like maybe they cared
too much obviously, but at the same time, it's like,
is it worth dying for? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Six months after the mask they moved away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they saw the writing on the
wall and and just basically said we need to, uh,
you know, remove ourselves from this and and probably provide
us much distance as possible between us and them, because
I mean, the same day that Vicky Buckley, the Secretary
of State, dies July fourth, Jefferson County Sheriff was shot
and killed or no, he shot and killed a man
in Clement Park, which is where members of the trench
Coat Mafia were gathering having events leading up to Columbine
and right next to it was right next to Columbine High.
Speaker 1: School, kind of connected. The Clement Park is kind of
like connected to Columbine exactly.
Speaker 2: And so I just thought it was interesting, Yeah, because
they shoot and kill a man in Clement Park that
very same day and never released his identity. None of
the officials ever released the identity of the man who
was shot and killed in Clement Park that day, and
that in itself is like, how is that possible? Yeah,
but it was never documented. And so again we just
have a random occurrence of a death happening the very
same day that the Secretary of State is found dead,
and we have no evidence details on what actually happened.
And then you have a key witness, Corey Hager. He
dies in a car crash at fifteen years old. His
sister told investigators he was at home having lunch, but
Hager was seen with deceased victim Stephen Kernow in the
cafeteria before the shooting broke out, but was never interviewed
and then proceeded to die in July of nineteen ninety
nine in a car crash at fifteen years old. So
it looks like that again, it's like no one has
any of the documentation other than he was hit struck
in a car accident and was the only mortality. And yeah,
so the lack of documentation from the Jefferson County Police
Department is extraordinary surrounding Columbine specifically, and most of the
Columbine report was never made public whatsoever, and especially all
of the videotapes that they had acquired. It was very
limited in what they actually provided publicly. And then it
was in two thousand. I forget which year, but it
was like less than it was less than ten years
ago when they I thought it was twenty seventeen, but
I can't recall now when they essentially made the decision
internally to destroy the files because they didn't want to
This was the justification. They didn't want to inspire future
school shooters after so they refused to make it public
and destroyed the tapes. All the parents were demanding be
revealed and made public.
Speaker 1: So the victims' parents have been so outspoken about this,
and then like Jeff co has botched this heavily.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, absolutely, And I honestly think, I don't know, what,
what do you think about a part two? Would you
be willing because we haven't even like, we're just now
getting to the good part, you know what I mean
as far as much as that sounds terrible to say,
but as far as the most extraordinary smoking gun connections
to this case, we're just now getting there. And I
feel like, you know, we labored the point a bit
just because I felt the federal involvement and military leadership
component and there's just too much and obviously discussing even
even the actions of Dylan and Eric of the day,
which we got into most. I think is crucial to understand,
how just due to the lack of what looks to
be corroborating evidence in terms of any reinforcing you know,
credibility in terms of the the Yeah, just the movements
of Dylan and Eric throughout the school. Yeah, I think
is important for everyone to realize that it's not something
we can rely on and really bank on in terms
of reliability. But anywhere, Yeah, we'll have.
Speaker 1: To get back together because I know that you have
to go to Yeah, I know, I know. I can't
wait for you to tell me all these things because
I feel like I did not hit everything that I
know that you're going to bring. I always enjoy talking
about it because I'm like, what did you find that
I didn't find? What did I find that you use?
Speaker 2: That's my favorite part. Yeah, it's the It's it's basically
sitting down at the table and and uh figuring out
which avenue that we each went down and provide our
our are our kind of uh uh. It's this is
what I love so much about podcasting though, because it
is like workshopping ideas in a way that that is
so intoxicating. Because our our minds work differently, and so
you're never typically going to follow the exact same path
down an investigative rabbit hole and discover the you usually
will find, you know, overlapping connections, but typically the way
our minds work, yeah, we we will inevitably go down
a separate route and then convene and discover that so
much of this helps reinforce overwrite other just avenues of
information that have been very much under just not underscored
in a proper way. But yeah, so I would say
we could probably start with the possibility of additional gunmen. Yeah,
in the various statements on the potential reality of that
happening on the scene. Maybe we could start there in
part two if you're interested, so just let me know.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Awesome, okay, hell yeah, I'll link all
your things in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for coming back. I can't like
another conversation in the future. But of course until next week,
my friends, Stay Skeptical, and we will see you all then. Hey, friends.
Speaker 15: The rabbit Hole is an independent podcast, written, posted, and
produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsay for
research and writing. If you love the podcast, please leave
us a five start rating and review wherever you're listening.
Follow us on social media at rabbit dot Hole podcast,
and visit our website at Stay Skeptical dot com for
everything else.