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Speaker 1: Hello friends, and welcome back to the rabbit Hole. I'm

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your host Danny, and today we have Austin back Austin.

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We're going to talk about Columbine. Last time, Okay, I

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recorded the intro prior to us getting together, and I

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was like, we're gonna talk about Columbine, and then I

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was like, we never even touched But this time I

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have since since you ruined my life last time we talked,

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I have done a deep dive into Monarch. I've done

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a deep dive into Columbine. I connected it to Cannon Cook,

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which you now have to do a deep dive into.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Yes, I instantly looked up Cannon Cook as soon

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as you mentioned it, and I will be going into

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that very soon, and I'm sure it will come up

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on Already Dead this week. But I cannot.

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Speaker 1: Wait until you cover it because I really like your

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like I really like your brain, like the way your

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brain processes things so way my brain processes things. So

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I'm like really into it.

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Speaker 2: Man, Thank you so much. I think it is interesting

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as well, just the geographical component of Missouri, as you

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had mentioned, because that's that's very near and dear to

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where I grew up as well, right just in northwest Arkansas. Joplin,

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Missouri was very close to where I grew up, Right,

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so there seems to be implications of oh, really, wow,

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that's crazy. But yeah, it just seems like there's far

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more of an entrench network in that area than I

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ever would have suspected, which I don't know why. You know,

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at this point, I'm not very surprised anymore. But at

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the same time, it's like, man, it's it's hard not

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to just have a pausing moment and reflect on, Wow,

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what you don't know? Right, because that's at every stage

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of these cases that you know, I kind of do

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the deep dives on it just continues to reveal, you know,

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an additional layer which I never expect and and it's

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it's fascinating to me. But it's what has driven me

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to do this, I think, because it's like, man, it's

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intoxicating in a way and in a positive way. As

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much as there's this this you know, very sinister nature

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to all of it, I think the the really just

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the those moments when you find those smoking guns, it

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makes it all worth worthwhile in a way because it

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not only does it reinforce and I'm not playing the

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game of confirmation biased. But at the same time, it's

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like it's hard not to continually recognize the same patterns

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as they reveal themselves in the playbook that is so

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heavily relied upon. And that's why again it's like I

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never expected to have a direct line into a potential

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Gladio operation being conducted in the area of Littleton, Colorado

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at the same time that Columbine happened. But here we are.

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Here we are once more the strategy of tension is

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playing out in its modern form, and I think attached

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to it is we had discussed on the last episode.

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I think I had brought up the concept of the

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mind war, right and the just the psychology of victory,

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and Paul Vallelli being on the turning point of advisory

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board as a member, you know, I think since at

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least twenty eighteen. But it's just fascinating because he's the

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co author with Michael Akino, prolific pedophile running the Monarch

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Boys out of off Foot Air Force Base in these

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various locations. It's disgusting, honestly to get any of the

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victim statements on that person individually, you know, But ye

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did they again, he comes up, he's from I'm.

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Speaker 1: Talking about I'm thinking Montalk, not Monarch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mon Talk.

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Speaker 1: Now I've got all my boys mixed up.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting though, because mon Talk is connected to Plattsburgh

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Air Force Base. They were essentially running behavioral modification experiments

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on victims child victims in the subterranean bunker at at

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I think it's like eighteen level subterranean bunkers underneath Plattsburgh,

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and this is where apparently these these scientists we were

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experimenting on these these young children. But the mon Talk

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boys were also attached to that, and it wasn't just

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boys obviously. But it's just interesting, you know, once again

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because I think even David Berkowitz from Son of Sam,

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he was connected to Montalk as well directly. So again

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it's never right exactly. And what do we have with

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Olumbein We have apparently the White Eagle Underground and the

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Brotherhood of the White Temple. All of this connects to

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the Star Chamber, which is the upper echelon leadership involved

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in this network, and apparently rogue intelligence officials. According to

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an internal report from an investigating officer who I think

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was just a local level out of his He was

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out of his depth. He didn't quite understand this cabal

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that he was basically being exposed to in this limited window, right,

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and so he was just trying to make sense of it.

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And he writes this internal report on the Star Chamber,

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and it's very fascinating because Michael Luchino, his wife, the

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High Priestess of the Temple of Set, they were Satanists.

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Obviously they had left the Satanic Church because of some

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dispute with Anton Levy, which I don't really buy this.

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I think it's a cover story. Yeah, because essentially they

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then proceed to subsequently set up the Temple of Set,

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and that in itself was I feel like as Jim

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Garrison said about the Discordianism movement, which apparently Discordianism was

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created by Kerrie Thornley, who was one of the Oswald

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impersonators running domestic intelligence operations on behalf the CIA, and

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Jim Garrison said, he set up Discordianism, which was an

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occult New age esoteric movement that fit perfectly into that

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of like the Temple of Set and these various other

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occult organizations, and that he was claiming once mk Ultra

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was driven underground as they you know, address with the

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penal colony paper that was written by a Berkeley professor

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who sent it to William Holsinger, who's Congressman Lee O'Brien's

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aid during Jonestown, when when Congressman Lee O'Ryan was a

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thorn in the side of the c I A right,

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he's he's effectively going under cover and even at one point,

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I mean, talk about an investigative congressman. This was fascinating.

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They don't they don't make him like this anymore.

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Speaker 1: That guy, he went all the way down there and

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then got shot at He died, didn't he or his

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aid died.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they murdered him. They assassinated him in the Poort

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Coyuma airstrip, And it was just after he was passed

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a note by one of the People's Temple members who claimed,

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please help us escape or trapped here where we're all prisoners,

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essentially being experimented on. It's just just you know, when

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you read through the accounts of what happened there, it

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looked like the Red Brigade, which was the you know,

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kind of police force of the People's Temple in Jonestown.

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It was really like this Communist They had connections to

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this very very interesting the Red Brigade, as they're basically

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connected to Gladio as a paramilitary force, and Jim Jones

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was using them for protection in a way, but also

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you know, to flex on the members of the People's

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Temples and so anyway, it's very interesting because it seems

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like one of the individuals who was the son he

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was the only person ever arrested for what happened that

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Jonestown and basically I think he was under he was

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essentially in a hypnotic trance when he carried out the

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murders with the Red Brigade at Port Coyuma airstrip, and

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he was the son of the individual who was running

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the major Essentially, he was in charge of all of

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the most sophisticated mind control medications that were being utilized

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by the intelligence apparatus at the time, and it was

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his son who was actually robotically acting as a hypnotically.

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What they claimed was it was potentially a mentoring candidate

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when he was carrying out the targeted assassinations on the airstrip,

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so he didn't have any recollection of it. It's very strange.

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Speaker 1: What I don't understand is why all these like military

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members keep using their own children. You would think that

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they would not want to use their children, that they

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would want.

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Speaker 2: To I think that other people's children, Like, yeah, you

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would imagine. But at the same time, I think it

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was almost the the context was was kind of reinforced

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in a way as far as just the concept of

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these the higher loyalty you know, to the organization and

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the and the basically the secret fraternal organization that you

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belong to, which I do think in the recent film

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Paul Thomas anders and directed that was One Battle after

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Another Rite, which I describe as almost Antifa progressive propaganda

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pornography in a way. You know, Like as much as

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I love Paul Thomas Anderson as a director, which I

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really do, he's fascinating. He He did Boogie Knights and

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Magnolia and so many different films that the Master on

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Scientology with with Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman basically

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playing l Ron Hubbard. And then probably my all time

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favorite film was Inherent Vice, which is basically really revealing

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the playbook in itself, which is the the unholy alliance

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between these cartels and the intelligence apparatus and and basically

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how they set up this this strange in a way,

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they needed an Anglo American on the strip in Vegas,

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and they they even at one point Benicio del Tooro's

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character references installing this this major Uh he's basically a

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real estate mogul in a way named Mickey Wolfman was

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the character. They were going to install him on the

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strip to run one of the casinos because they needed

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to counter the organized crime influence of the Italian mob

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on the strip at the time. And the allegedly now

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that the context was referencing how the CIA installed Howard

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Hughes on the strip because they needed an Anglo on

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the strip, and so that was kind of that comparison.

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Mm hmmm, it was the But it's so fascinating too, like, uh,

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just as far as Howard Hughes, the one, I think

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he's the first billionaire, and it's just so obvious that

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he was a creative personality in a way and was

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almost the cutout for these domestic operations because even during

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the Nixon administration, Uh no, no, no, it was when Nixon

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was VP. He apparently calls up Howard Hughes and he

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says Hey, we need plausible deniability to run domestic intelligence operations.

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So will you please set up these domestic black sites

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all throughout the US geographically to where we can train

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up these Cuban exiles and Cuban refugees and then utilize

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them as operatives in this context of running domestic operations.

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That's why all the Cubans were involved in Watergate, right,

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because Howard Hughes was running the Cubans. He was their handler,

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and they know him by it exactly, and they knew

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him by a different name. He was really I think

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working in I think he was infiltrating the Nixon administration

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because he was running a layered operation and basically he

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was actually more loyal to Richard Helms. In the Office

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of Security, which was the OS, was like this highly

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seektive internal a group within the CIA that only directly

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answered to Richard Helms as the director of the CIA

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at the time. This is when Richard Helms ordered during

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the Church Committee hearings, he ordered all the destruction of

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thousands of files regarding MK Ultra. I think obviously a

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lot of people kind of made actually I think it

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was you that made the point. The last time we

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talked that they probably just secretively housed them somewhere else

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instead of destroying them, right, and.

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Speaker 1: Just how some of them. I think they did destroy

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some of them, but I think that well, I think

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they destroyed some of them, but I do think that

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somebody took them somewhere else. Yeah, absolutely with them, like

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because they didn't stop mk Ultra. We have evidence of

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that exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what the penal colony was. As far

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as the the reports or letter that the Berkeley professor

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had written and sent to Congressman Lei O. Ryan, he said, no,

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they actually drove m k Ultra underground for plausible deniability

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into all these cult to cut out organizations like the

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People's Temple at Jonestown. And he said that specifically he

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believed it was just again a product of m k

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ltre going underground and then continuing their experimentation in this

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very controlled way, because again you have this almost precedent

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setting operation playing out in terms of controlled test subjects

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in this I mean trapped in the remote jungles of

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Guyana at that point, and then predominantly black as well,

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which was very strange to see, like the racial dynamic

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playing out between the members, and then the leadership because

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the leadership was mostly white, which is very interesting to

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me just as far as you know the power dynamic

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at play there. And then also listening to the final tapes,

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the death tapes at Jonestown, I'll never forget because you

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have individuals who aren't entirely as suggestible as the rest, right,

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they haven't been quite as conditioned as the others, and

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they're really kind of rejecting the notion like we don't

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have Because Jim was suggesting they would have an escape route, right,

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they could call up the Russian government and the Soviets

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would would basically they would give them, he would give

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them a code, and then they would come and rescue

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them from the Western intelligence military ashist brigade that was

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essentially going to kill them all and back down on

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Jim Jones because he was such a prophet. It was

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just hilarious to watch and and see, but very disturbing

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to see the rest of the group members for the

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most part shouting her down and and just you know,

239
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really influencing her to shut her mouth, you know, and

240
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and just go through with with the Yeah, the final

241
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apocalyptic uh what do they call it? Revolutionary suicide revolutionary

242
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mass suicide, which is just very interesting.

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Speaker 1: But it was like we all was they were right.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the members were unfortunately forced

245
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to take the poison, right, Yeah.

246
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Speaker 1: And and I think a lot of them did not know,

247
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like they had done it like done practice runs so

248
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many times that they didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: There was exactly this is the one, right, Yeah. And

250
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he would do loyalty tests with also many of the

251
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members before they even left Yukaya, right in northern California.

252
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He would like would they would start drinking wine in

253
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his office and then he would tell them that he

254
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poisoned the wine and just get their reaction. And it

255
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was very strange, but it did seem like it was

256
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a loyalty test for the most part of what he

257
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was attempting to do. But yeah, I don't know, I

258
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just see that so much of this applies directly to Columbine, obviously,

259
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because you have Eric Harris, who I believe was almost

260
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intentionally sacrificed by his own parents, right, just very strange. Yeah,

261
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his dad and his ties to military intelligence are just

262
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extraordinary and impossible to dismiss. But I began my episode

263
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by evoking the words of Bill Cooper from Behold a

264
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Pale Horse, because basically and obviously I think there are

265
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portions of a pell horse, which he himself even later

266
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on reflected back on and claimed that he was given

267
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false information to damage his credibility things of that nature

268
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like and I think that was much to do with

269
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the alien component and in regard to the jfk assassination

270
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and things of that nature. But I mean that that

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also did not only come from Bill Cooper. He was

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I think referencing because it came up in the in

273
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terms of Douglas Caddie, who was a personal friend of

274
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Howard Hunt and hit the very first apparently his personal

275
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attorneys where as well his private attorney, and was the

276
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well he worked for Mullening Company along with Howard Hunts,

277
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and he claims that he didn't realize Mullening Company was

278
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a CIA cutout in a front to to actually run

279
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domestic operations. He claims he didn't know, but they were

280
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a Mullening company like a PR firm that was hired

281
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by in these major companies, I think even Coca Cola

282
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at one point I can't remember now, but which makes

283
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sense because Coca Cola has a big CIA footprint as well.

284
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Just as far as involvement, I think I think it

285
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was Coca Cola who was involved in a factory and

286
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a plant in Vietnam, and they were basically running intelligence

287
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operations through this factory and infiltrating. They would supply or

288
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provide members like intelligence assets and intelligence agents who would

289
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act as if they were working and under the employee

290
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of the Coca Cola plant, and in reality they were

291
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covert operatives that were essentially staging on the ground operations

292
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in Vietnam itself leading up to the war, which happens

293
00:19:55,039 --> 00:20:00,319
very often, you know. But anyway, I just think it's

294
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it's interesting obviously because Douglas Caddy, he claims that he

295
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,400
sat down with Howard Hunt at one point following Watergate,

296
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and by the way, he was the first guy to respond.

297
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He got a call early in the morning, like I

298
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think it was after two am. He gets a call

299
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from Howard Hunt just as the Watergate arrests all happened

300
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and Howard Hunt got out of there. He wasn't arrested originally,

301
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right with the all the burglars, because again he's running

302
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,240
a layered operation. He set them up right and he

303
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,759
knew he knew that Carl Schoffler was tipped off as

304
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the arresting officer sitting outside of the Watergate early before

305
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,079
you know, at one am, in playing clothes because he

306
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was actually loyal to military intelligence and running because military

307
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,759
intelligence had infiltrated the DC Metropolitan Police Department. So you

308
00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:01,119
had dual loyalties playing out there as well. So he's

309
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,240
read in, he's he's sitting out there waiting for for

310
00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:08,920
the call, and it's it's very strange how it all

311
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,519
played out. But it turns out that Douglas Caddy gets

312
00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:15,279
a call from Howard Hunt. He then shows up at

313
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,880
Caddie's house in residence and uh and tells him about

314
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,880
the Cubans, and I forget who the other burglar was,

315
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,160
damn it, Frank Sturgis, I think was his name. Uh who.

316
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:33,599
He's got a fascinating story as well. He goes to

317
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,279
assassinate Marita Lorenz and he he's like, the cops are

318
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,960
waiting at Marita's apartment because he claimed that Marita had

319
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,759
all these files on the JFK assassination. You know that

320
00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:47,079
she was she was about to blow the whistle and

321
00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:52,720
and was providing these files and documents to the basically

322
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:57,720
these federal investigators, and so her and her daughter, we

323
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,319
were tipped off by a detective that Frank Sturgis is

324
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,920
going to come and murder you because they need to

325
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,359
silence silence you essentially, And and she had also seen

326
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,480
she had been at one of the safe houses, the

327
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:17,400
CIA safe houses, she claimed was in Virginia. And and

328
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by the way, the CIA tried tried to recruit Marita

329
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,720
to assassinate Fidel Castro for them, because yes, she she

330
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:31,920
inevitably had a sexual relationship with I don't remember. I

331
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,279
don't either, but it's so crazy. And and it turns

332
00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:43,720
out that she was impregnated by Fidel Castro allegedly and.

333
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Speaker 1: Fell in love with him Trudeau's mom.

334
00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:51,319
Speaker 2: That's the claim, the allegedly that is a lot of

335
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people think this is this is what happened, And uh,

336
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it makes sense because this reinforces that just as far

337
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:01,599
as lens a bit more credibility to the notion that

338
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,839
it is possible, because we certainly don't know who that

339
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,200
child was, and the basically what happened to that child

340
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either and neither does Marita. And so basically what happened

341
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,519
is she falls in love with him. She's tad after

342
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:19,799
she was tasked by the CIA to assassinate him, and

343
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he impregnates her. She wakes up on an operating table,

344
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no longer pregnant, with no memory of what happened, and

345
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no child. And that's the last we heard of this.

346
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And then the CIA brings her back to the States

347
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,279
and puts her in a safe house, and she claims

348
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she sees Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, all the usual suspects

349
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,319
who planned the Watergate burglary and the JFK assassination because

350
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they were members of Operation forty. And she says this

351
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:52,440
is before JFK was killed. She was brought back to

352
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,319
the safe house, and she claims she saw all the

353
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,359
individuals who were the architects of the assassination and even

354
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,799
claimed to have seen Oswald and that she rode with

355
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,559
them to Dallas. That's what she claimed after they met

356
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:08,440
at the safehouse.

357
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,319
Speaker 1: So after, okay, they take her baby, they bring her

358
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,400
back to Virginia and then they're like, hey, let's go

359
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,480
on a little road trip to Dallas, Texas where who

360
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:20,319
could guess it, JFK is about to be murdered, and

361
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,559
this guy, he's our Patsy what.

362
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: And then they set her up later on in life.

363
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,559
It seems like she was a lifetime asset honestly, because

364
00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:33,559
they set her up in an apartment complex where she

365
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,079
was running audio visual blackmail for the purposes of providing

366
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,599
that to the intelligence. So yeah, it seems like this

367
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,640
is nothing new. And Heidie Reichen wasn't alone at all

368
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,279
either in terms of the the what do they call

369
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,079
her the White House call girl that that's the book

370
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:59,039
that references that network specifically, which was ran by Joan

371
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:03,960
nes Lyne, who was apparently the a member of one

372
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,759
of the high ranking members of the organized crime syndicate

373
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,200
that was also the fixer that was working along with

374
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:16,599
intelligence in d C. And so he was helping run

375
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,680
plausible deniability on behalf of the agency in terms of

376
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,759
setting up the prostitution network in operation at the Columbia

377
00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:27,079
Plaza apartments, which was like a block away from the Watergate,

378
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,200
and that's where they were providing basically this binder of

379
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:38,000
women and to these various diplomats and and you know,

380
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,599
political assets that would come into town and visit and

381
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,319
and they would they were running this all through a

382
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,920
specific desk in the Watergate complex that wasn't on the

383
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,799
same Apparently they had it. They had their own separate

384
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,839
communication apparently as far as like it wasn't attached to

385
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,440
I forget the terminology they used, but it's very interesting

386
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,359
because it was clearly just a private communication network that

387
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,480
they were relying on for this prostitution operation. But yeah,

388
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:18,759
it's never ending, and it looks like everything, right, Heidi

389
00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:24,319
would even say that the operation itself and the Columbia

390
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,640
Plaza apartments where she said that she had CIA protection, right.

391
00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:34,480
So it's just very interesting, right, and not at all surprising.

392
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:39,640
But yeah. So I began my episode by referencing Bill Cooper,

393
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,440
as I mentioned, and how in the whole appel Horse

394
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,960
he talks about how for many years, right, the secret

395
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,119
government has been encouraging the manufacture and the importation of

396
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,480
military grade firearms for criminal use. He claims this is

397
00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:59,160
intended to foster a feeling of insecurity, which would lead

398
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,839
the American people to voluntarily disarm themselves by passing laws

399
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:08,359
against firearms. Now, this is the most interesting part, and

400
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,359
the reason that I put it in the beginning was

401
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,480
because he claims by using drugs and hypnosis on mental

402
00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:19,359
patients in a process called Orion. The CIA inculcated the

403
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,279
desire in these people to open fire on school yards

404
00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:27,599
and thus inflame the anti gun lobby. This plan is

405
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,799
well underway and so far is working to perfection, he says.

406
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:38,799
And I think as much as Orion isn't documented, right,

407
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:45,200
it fits right. It fits very well with just even

408
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,920
the Artochoke documents that I think I referenced in the

409
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:52,519
last episode from the early nineteen fifties, right, they have

410
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:57,000
the ability to trigger a mentorian, you know, using a telephone.

411
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,400
And then also there's one portion from nineteen fifty three,

412
00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:08,799
there's one portion of the Artichoke documents that basically claimed

413
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:15,279
SI and H experimentation, which I believe was obviously hypnotism

414
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,880
as an experiment. And there was another document as well

415
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,200
from February fifty four, and it says it discusses the

416
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,559
creation of hypnotized subjects who respond to triggers and who

417
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:32,160
are willing to shoot people when they ordinarily wouldn't. And

418
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,279
so I just felt like, Okay, we have legitimate evidence

419
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,200
and internal documentation that has been provided and exposed through

420
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,519
FOYA that proves through the ciamk Ultra subprojects, they were

421
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:53,200
obviously capable of achieving this, and it's impossible to deny

422
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:58,160
that they were training up programmed assassins at this point.

423
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,759
And as if they haven't sophisticated those methods over time,

424
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,880
I think is a very naive thing to yeah, or

425
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,440
impression to be under But.

426
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: Well, so many people are like, well that stopped back

427
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,559
in like the seventies, Like that stopped in the sixties.

428
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,960
It was uncovered and found unethical. Yeah, well, okay, that

429
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,640
doesn't That's never stopped them before. Like we have a

430
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,559
whole history of things where they were like, oh, but

431
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,160
they stopped doing that, and then they get caught doing

432
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,119
it again exactly.

433
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:38,279
Speaker 2: And I think really the interesting part about Columbinden was

434
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:42,119
was the aftermath in terms of just the consequential nature

435
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,119
of an event and a high impact event such as

436
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:51,000
this and always providing that dystopian pretext to essentially be

437
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:54,839
achieved by the permanent establishment, and they always take those

438
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,880
opportunities and run. And I think, you know, following the shooting,

439
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,160
you have schools all across the US who institute new

440
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,119
security measures. Transparent backpacks were one, I think metal detectors.

441
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:16,079
They had school uniforms obviously were being implemented, and then

442
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:19,319
you had security guards that were placed in most of

443
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,359
the public schools. So some of the schools even included

444
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,079
numbering their doors and it was supposed to improve public

445
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:32,640
safety response allegedly, which now you even see in the

446
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,359
public school system whenever shootings occurred to this day, right,

447
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,079
you have the doors allegedly, and most schools will just

448
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,960
lock for the classroom, which I think is insane. And

449
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,920
I even wrote or I read about how they're going

450
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,160
to provide domestic drone systems to the public schools for

451
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:57,279
mass shooter response. This is real. Yeah, they've already done

452
00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:03,039
this is it? I can't remember if if I can't recall,

453
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,599
but I definitely do remember there's military developments that are

454
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:12,799
all financing and facilitating this obviously, and they claim.

455
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: Also creating their career. They have this sound machine or

456
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,519
they like recognizes the sound of a gunshot and instantly

457
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:26,039
calls nine on one for you wow, and like recording

458
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,880
so flow. I did an episode on uh, the invasion

459
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,960
of privacy and flock cameras, like flock system was part of.

460
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah. I just saw something about AI systems

461
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,400
operationally being uh you know, apparently inserted into the mass

462
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,799
surveillance system obviously, which which is on every street corner,

463
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:55,160
and basically they're saying that through the ai AI software system,

464
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,519
they will be able to interpret your your mouth movements

465
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,680
and every word that you actually say and things of

466
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,400
that nature. So yeah, I think it's far more advanced

467
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:12,680
than any of us would want to probably acknowledge your

468
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,359
comprehend their conceptualizing, and usually I think DARPA's twenty five

469
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,440
years advanced ahead of where we think they are. But

470
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,119
I've heard so many people kind of push back and

471
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,759
claim that we're signing too much power to, you know,

472
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,759
the establishment. But man, it's hard to say that when

473
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:35,640
you've you've just read through so much of what is

474
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,400
documented as as reality, you know, and that in itself

475
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:45,759
is hard to imagine that they lost their ability to,

476
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,400
you know, to effectively exploit us. I don't think that's

477
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,680
the way of the world, unfortunately. But yeah, but you know,

478
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,039
you have just this as far as like not only

479
00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:01,799
the computer generated ID in all of this right, as

480
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:05,640
far as just the new requirements for security measures in schools,

481
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,279
but you have a significant number of copycat crimes that

482
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,759
began to occur, and they would always tend to, especially

483
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:18,880
the media, evoke the name of Dylan and Eric and

484
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,839
Columbine following the next school shooting that it takes place.

485
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,000
And I think Janet Reno was also one of the

486
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,599
leading figures who helped push the Columbine effect in a way,

487
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:35,400
just by referencing back to Columbine so often and even

488
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,599
calling one of the shootings that occurred directly after as

489
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,039
a co copycat crime, which you know, she's the butcher

490
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:45,160
of Waco, right.

491
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:50,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, she is. She's something Waco. You have oka see.

492
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,720
You've got Columbine, this lady was in it.

493
00:33:53,839 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: And Ruby Ridge too, yeah, right, like Janet Reno, Man,

494
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,160
I think whenever she was up for reelection, she ran

495
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,719
her mouth and said if she didn't get re elected,

496
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,320
she basically threatened the establishment. She said she would low

497
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,639
the lid off of Waco. And I thought that was

498
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,599
interesting because there was a report that was written by

499
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,760
an individual who was basically given the treatment of Danny

500
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,199
Castilero and experienced the worst case of suicide you've ever seen.

501
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,639
And his body was even moved and placed on his

502
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,920
own toilet back at his apartment. But they knew for

503
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,400
a fact that he was killed somewhere else, and they

504
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,519
claimed he killed himself on his own toilet. It's just insane.

505
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:42,599
He was a member of the White House press team

506
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,840
for a minute, as far as just like, yeah, it's

507
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,719
very strange. And it turns out he was contacted by

508
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,800
a domestic operative within the intelligence apparatus who was rounding

509
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,079
his mouth, claiming he was blowing the whistle because he

510
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:01,320
was being hung out to dry. He says he was

511
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,760
the pilot who actually flew the private flight with George

512
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,320
w Or George Busch Senior and these various other individuals

513
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:15,199
to Paris for the October surprise meeting apparently, which, yeah,

514
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,760
it's very interesting, but all of that led to obviously,

515
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,519
I think Reagan and Oric Hard losing right the the election,

516
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,679
which was effectively the point. But it's very interesting because

517
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,880
because his claims very much did seem credible if you

518
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,679
looked into them, and and every single thing that he mentioned,

519
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:45,159
one of which was that there Waco and and the

520
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:48,480
the compound was a testing ground for mk Ultra and

521
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:51,880
that those the vast majority and even the leadership members

522
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,679
right of the branch Davidians were actually waking up from

523
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,960
their programming and this was the reason why they needed

524
00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:05,559
to actually uh basically tie off these loose ends, and

525
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,599
yet they were no longer. Yeah, they were apparently supposed

526
00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:15,480
to be manufacturing some explosive device that they were going

527
00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:19,639
to utilize in an operation domestically as well, and that

528
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,719
makes sense considering okay, see right, and things of that nature.

529
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,840
So yeah, and then just in the fact that.

530
00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: What's his name, Timothy McVeigh hadn't made a trip down

531
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,320
to Waco. He was there for that, but also prior

532
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,000
to that, like he had gone down to Dallas a

533
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:38,679
couple of times where you're like, why what is he

534
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,960
doing down there? Like why is he not a Dallas

535
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:42,960
but to Waco or I mean in Dallas too, but

536
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,559
like like he's going down to Texas an awful lot

537
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,239
for a guy that like has no ties to Texas.

538
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,320
And then he was there during WAGO and then he

539
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,960
committed the OKAC bombing. If we are to believe that

540
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,159
that's what happened.

541
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, It's so crazy, And and I think McVeigh

542
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,440
was sheep dipped operative obviously everything that you read about.

543
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:06,159
He exposed that to his own sister.

544
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: And then we have the FBI guy down in Florida

545
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:18,079
that's Timothy McVay like had a second you look real familiar.

546
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: I know, right, that is always It's always fascinated me

547
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,760
as far as that connection. But you never know, and

548
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,800
I honestly don't. I think when Jolly West, uh you know,

549
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,880
jolly On West, which which obviously was one of the

550
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,880
key MK Ultra you know, I mean he he was

551
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,039
basically answering directly to Sydney Gottlieb and which they called

552
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:49,800
the Dark Sorcerer of MK Ultra himself or something is

553
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,599
the name they be given. And also the goat Fucker apparently.

554
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,000
Is I'm dead serious that that was attributed to him,

555
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,320
a name that was given to him. Yeah, it's fascinating,

556
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,000
And honestly it was during the Finders, I believe. When

557
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,519
I was researching that, and I found out that basically

558
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:15,800
there is evidence of this pedophile academy that existed called

559
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,119
the Farm right, And this fits perfectly because Marion Petty

560
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,440
he was running on his farm in Virginia, right, which

561
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:29,519
was eerily close to Camp Perry and obviously Virginia its

562
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:34,000
self CI stopping grounds and and yeah, it looks like

563
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,159
that's he had where the members of the Finders were

564
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:41,760
all meeting and they were were practicing witchcraft. They claimed

565
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,960
that they would play these these games with the children

566
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,519
that were I forget. It was like, which is in

567
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:53,360
warlocks or something. It was very strange, but because neighbors

568
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,079
had like gone on record claiming they had they had

569
00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:00,320
watched this happen, and these kids were all naked when

570
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,400
they were playing this game apparently, and.

571
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,079
Speaker 1: They also the kids they had to live outsiders.

572
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: Them, Oh my god, they had no they didn't know

573
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,800
how to use a bathroom. It was like, it's so

574
00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:15,000
terrible the level that they had broken these children down to,

575
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:17,840
you know. And that was something that I found out

576
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,480
with the Montreal experiments, right, just as far as referencing

577
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:24,559
back to Ewan Cameron and the fact that you know,

578
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:28,039
he could roll back an adult personality to that of

579
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,960
an infant child, right and you had had one of

580
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,440
his victims was a grown woman who was just seeking

581
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:39,440
help for depression, you know. And it's just like so

582
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:43,159
sad because she didn't have any caretakers and and they

583
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:46,199
broke her down to where she thought her interrogators were

584
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,119
her parents, and she didn't even know who her parents

585
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,239
were any longer. She spent years of her life trying

586
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,599
to redevelop an adult personality because she was stunted at

587
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:58,199
the age of three, which is how much they had

588
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:03,159
psychologically manipulate her. But as far as the the goat

589
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:05,360
fucker comment, if I'm going to mention that, I have

590
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,719
to have to reinforce it with a credible section, and

591
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,320
so basically did he provide Mariam Petty with the goats

592
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,559
used in the blood ritual, which they called the if

593
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:21,079
you remember, whenever the w Street apartments in the warehouse

594
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,480
were raided by uh, you know, the US Customs Agent

595
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:31,320
and members of the Metropolitan Police Department DC. They ran

596
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,800
this joint raid and they conducted on the warehouse and

597
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,280
they found obviously all these pictures of children, basically child pornography.

598
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,199
They were on display with their genitals exposed and things

599
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,079
of that nature. And and but they found a whole,

600
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,199
They found a whole basically photo album of what was

601
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,880
labeled the execution of Henrietta and Igor, which were the

602
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,920
goats that were basically beheaded, one of which was killed

603
00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:06,920
while it was alive by having the children carve out

604
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,679
it was a pregnant goat. They had the children carve

605
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,360
out the baby goat from the womb of the live

606
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:19,719
pregnant goat and then and then present the dead baby goat,

607
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,079
and then the head of one of the goats as

608
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:26,719
well to one of the children, which is very strange.

609
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,159
But again, the.

610
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: Like reading about that, and it was like like the goats,

611
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:33,719
and I was like, what is up with these goats?

612
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,599
Like they have all these kids with like these pictures

613
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:37,800
of these goats. But I guess I didn't realize like

614
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,960
that the kids were. I had assumed there was some

615
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,079
kind of weird sacrifice with them, but I didn't know

616
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:44,519
exactly like the extent of it.

617
00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: Oh Man. Mariam Petty justified this by claiming it was

618
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,079
they were instructing the children on how to engage in

619
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:58,599
animal husbandry. Yeh, and yes, but in reality, they were

620
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:05,280
wearing ritual garb, you know, like ritual gowns and whatever

621
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,840
the hell they're called, you know what I'm saying. And

622
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,360
I think it was white. Yeah, all white robes is

623
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,400
what they were wearing during the ritual itself. And but yeah,

624
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,760
you basically have this quote right from a CIA Assistant

625
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:27,679
Deputy Director of Operations named Robert Crowley, and he says, oh,

626
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,000
we do have our stable of weird people working for us.

627
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:35,280
Did I ever tell you about the pedophile Academy? We

628
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,880
actually had one down at Camp Perry, right near the

629
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,000
CIA's you know, Jim Crichfield's place. I don't know if

630
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,360
you're aware of it, but we called it the Farm

631
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,119
and it was supposed to be a secret training center

632
00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:52,159
for young agents. Anyway, Alan Dola set up this training

633
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:56,079
center down there for pedophiles. They were in training to seduce,

634
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,920
molest and most especially photographed the young children n of targets.

635
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:08,039
Not only apparently, he claimed, not only would the graduates

636
00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:11,599
have a spanking good time, but they could get wonderful

637
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:15,360
action pictures of the wei ones to blackmail their families

638
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,679
with I understand they broke it up when one of

639
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,559
the graduates nailed a CIA deputy director's son at a

640
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:27,159
summer camp. Right, Like, you have to.

641
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: Assume that if you're going to train pedophiles, you're going

642
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,519
to send these people there to get trained in order

643
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:35,519
to like do this to children, that they might do

644
00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:37,800
it to your fucking children exactly.

645
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: So when it's so mad, I'm with you. It is

646
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,880
infuriating that these people not only exist but are are basically,

647
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:57,239
you know, insulated from accountability, you know, and in every way.

648
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,639
And he finishes that quote though by saying, oh, and

649
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,239
we mustn't forget the goat boy. That's the strange doctor

650
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,440
Sidney Gottlieb. This is the face of mk ultra doctor

651
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,440
Sidney Gottlieb. We called him that because he lived in

652
00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:17,840
a hovel and kept a bunch of goats around. He

653
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,840
used to have sexual affairs with them. That's what he says.

654
00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: This guy was probably some freaking weird mm hmm.

655
00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:28,559
Speaker 2: And I mean the Camp Perry, by the way. I

656
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:31,840
went and looked this up. It's a US military reservation

657
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,480
in New York or in York County, right near Williamsburg, Virginia,

658
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:41,119
which apparently hosts a covert CIA training facility known as

659
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:50,599
the Farm Weird exactly officially referred to as an Armed

660
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:55,159
Forces Experimental Training Activity a f e t A under

661
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:58,400
the authority of the Department of Defense, Camp Perry is

662
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,840
approximately nine thousand eight makers and the farm is used

663
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,440
the train officers of the CIA's Directorate of Operations, as

664
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:09,599
well as those of the DA's Defense Clandestine Service, among

665
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:14,000
other intelligence bodies, and its facilities are available to the

666
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:18,000
members of the intelligence community. For quote off site activities

667
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,519
such as conferences and working groups. So Camp Perry even

668
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:27,079
has a sister facility called The Point located in Hertford,

669
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:32,000
North Carolina. So yeah, that's what we're dealing with, right, apparently,

670
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:36,320
and if that applies to the face of MK Ultra

671
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:40,079
and one of the most prominent figures in American history

672
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:45,000
as far as just systematically entrenching these methods, you know,

673
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:51,159
I mean it's that he was the mentor for jolly

674
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,039
On West, you know, and for doctor West. You know.

675
00:45:56,199 --> 00:46:01,719
It's just fascinating because he went and is the Tim McVay.

676
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,360
When Tim McVay was was obviously on death row, and

677
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,840
you know, I think he convinced McVay that they would

678
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,199
intervene on his behalf and he would be given a

679
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:20,440
counteracting substance which would effectively render the lethal injection as

680
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,519
it would counteract the lethal injection basically, and he was

681
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:27,599
still survive, and so I think he was conditioned to

682
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:33,199
believe this and they are more than likely. Yeah, it

683
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,920
seems like it, right, But that's the part, right. I

684
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,400
just think that it's interesting because of how much their

685
00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:47,039
speculation regarding his death right and obviously, why would you

686
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:50,079
spend your entire time on death row, trying to make

687
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:55,599
sure uh you know the legal uh basically that you

688
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:58,960
set the legal precedent for not allowing your father to

689
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,079
have your body autop seed. Right, you know, it's like

690
00:47:02,159 --> 00:47:06,000
things of that nature that make absolutely no sense, clearly

691
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:11,000
and beyond the the misdirection of the Hurst for public

692
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:14,800
perception right where where obviously that his body was not

693
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,199
in that hurst, which is just so crazy. So we

694
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,199
have no idea where Tim McVay is this.

695
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,519
Speaker 1: But this is the same Jolly West that visited Charles Manson,

696
00:47:25,639 --> 00:47:28,679
the same Jolly West that visited Jack Ruby, the same

697
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:34,119
Jolly West that visited Tim McVay. Like, okay, open your eyes, people,

698
00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:39,039
like this guy clearly has altered your motives first visiting all.

699
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 2: These people, I'm telling you, And sorry, no, you.

700
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Okay, Well I was gonna say I'm surprised

701
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,079
that Charles Manson just stayed in prison for so long.

702
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, right, I think the same of Dutrell,

703
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:57,039
don't you know. It's like Mark Dutreux and Belgium, like

704
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:01,239
he's still in prison. Then it's just fascinating that no

705
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,440
one has that. Basically I expected him to it's almost

706
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:09,880
like the David Berkowitz thing where he begins to become

707
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,079
willing to blow the whistle. He's doing some interviews and

708
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:16,559
then all of a sudden his throat is cut in prison,

709
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,400
and they almost I mean, he was so close to death,

710
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,159
it's crazy. And so after that he's like, no, I'm

711
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:26,639
not saying a word, and he claims it was out

712
00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:29,719
of concern for I think his biological father was the

713
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,519
only person who remained close to him after all of

714
00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:39,079
the scandal of the Son of Sam and everything. But still,

715
00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:43,320
I mean, it's we got Sir Han that's still sitting

716
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,880
in prison, you know, and I'm not I mean, it's

717
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,320
obviously I don't believe he killed RFK, you know. And

718
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,320
and the fact of the matter is neither to his

719
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,239
r FK Junior, if you know. Which is one thing

720
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,119
I believe that he has to say is that he

721
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:03,719
believes Sir Hans innocent. And uh. He named Thane eugeniusies

722
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,440
Are as his father's killer. Uh. And it's just amazing.

723
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:11,599
The day that Thane eugenisies Are died, he was running uh,

724
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,000
you know, covert operations for a plausibility deniability cut out.

725
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:21,920
That was was Apparently it was Robert Mayhew, who was

726
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:25,159
basically his handler, but he was the right hand man

727
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:26,559
of Howard Hughes.

728
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,599
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, this was like, I got Mark Shaw on

729
00:49:30,639 --> 00:49:34,599
my podcast. You might like to talk to him. He

730
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:38,360
he wrote all kinds of books about rfk's assassination and

731
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:40,199
Sir Haan and that whole situation.

732
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: What's his name, Mark Shaw?

733
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,679
Speaker 1: I have his I have his contact information. I'll give

734
00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:46,000
it to you.

735
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:52,159
Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah, that would be awesome because I've really it would.

736
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,360
I'm looking forward to like scheduling more interviews to do

737
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,559
sort of a dindum episodes on on some of my

738
00:49:58,599 --> 00:50:01,440
solo projects and di to them a little deeper in

739
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:04,480
a different avenue of thought and things like that. I

740
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,519
think that would be a lot of fun. I think

741
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,519
I'm actually going to try and bring on JJ Vance

742
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,800
from Operation GCD to talk about Pizzagate because I just

743
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,800
saw he dropped one and I was like, oh, that

744
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,920
would be fun. I need to. I've been looking for

745
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,320
an excuse to, you know what else. I was supposed

746
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,719
to go because it was in town this week, right,

747
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,320
and I've never met him personally, but he hit me up.

748
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,280
He's like, hey, man, do you want to go to

749
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,679
Spawn Ranch with me and record some content. And I

750
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,320
was like, oh my gosh, I've been looking for an

751
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,800
excuse to go up there for quite a while. But

752
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,159
at the same time, you know, I was like, I

753
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,920
have an interview unfortunately, but it would that would have

754
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,519
been crazy, right, and just go. I'll have to do

755
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:53,480
that at some point, just to see because I know

756
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,559
I mean exactly, but I definitely just wanted to. Obviously,

757
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:02,400
I don't think any of the set from the old

758
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,320
Spawn Ranch studio is still up, but I think, uh,

759
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,920
there's one rock formation that's like almost it's not quite

760
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,840
a cave, but it's like a hollowed out indention in

761
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:17,480
the ridge line, and I think they conducted some of

762
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:24,119
their there's basically there LSD fueled sex rituals in a way.

763
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,119
But yeah, be a strange place to walk around them

764
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:29,039
because just.

765
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: Because you know what happened, like you know, like there's

766
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:36,320
like too much history, because like if you go to

767
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,519
a place and you don't know, like you don't know

768
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:39,559
anything about it, then it's.

769
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: Not as much fun exactly. Yeah.

770
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: Plus, no, you promised me that you.

771
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: Talk, Okay, I am, I swear I'm sorry.

772
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: Because like we could go. I feel like we could

773
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:55,920
just like talk about whatever for three hours and then

774
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,519
we'll be like, Okay, you want to come back tomorrow

775
00:51:57,559 --> 00:52:00,400
and we'll like you.

776
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,039
Speaker 2: No, this is my plight, But no, I think it's

777
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:08,519
hard not to because I think everything does overlap so much,

778
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:14,800
and you can provide reinforcement with these various overlapping contextual examples.

779
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,719
But I do think. So there's a personal friend of

780
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,000
Eric and Dylan, right, which was his name was Eric Vake,

781
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:26,559
and he was even arrested after he threatening to finish

782
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:30,239
the job, is what he claimed at Columbine in October

783
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,880
of ninety nine. So it goes from you know, April

784
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:38,639
to October, and he's still interested in finishing the job, allegedly,

785
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,920
and he's found with a diagram of the school that

786
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,719
he had made and what we're described as a suspicious

787
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,599
journal entry, right, or multiple suspicious journal entries. But none

788
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:54,480
of this was made public, and Vike was ultimately placed

789
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,519
on like a five hundred thousand dollars bond and sent

790
00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:01,840
to a youth detention center. But I did think very interesting,

791
00:53:02,039 --> 00:53:04,920
you know, just as far as a friend of theirs

792
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,239
that's still psychologically committed in a way, you know, I.

793
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: Also know what happens at youth detention centers.

794
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:18,639
Speaker 2: Exactly where, and I think programming these kids mm hmm, exactly.

795
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:24,239
And obviously, the official narrative is that Eric and Dylan

796
00:53:24,679 --> 00:53:29,960
planned this for over around a year and really intended

797
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:33,119
on the attack primarily being a shooting or I mean

798
00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:37,400
a bombing. And yeah, and only was it secondarily intended

799
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,119
to be a shooting because basically they had all the

800
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:45,679
homemade bombs they had planted obviously in the school, which

801
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,199
failed to detonate for the most part. But again that

802
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,519
always gave me pause because then I think it was

803
00:53:54,119 --> 00:53:58,000
Dave McGowan in the Anatomy of a School Shooting, which

804
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:01,519
is the reason why I called my episode, was because

805
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,400
he had written an investigative article just after the shooting happened,

806
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:10,039
and it is very interesting, but he points out the

807
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,440
fact that how on earth are we supposed to imagine

808
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,880
a world where no members of the just no teachers,

809
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,639
no members of the school security, no one saw them

810
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,400
basically planting explosive devices all throughout the school, and I mean,

811
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,159
it's just too much to imagine. But they also there

812
00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:36,880
was an additional layer where originally in the investigation. The

813
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,800
authorities were considering the notion or the concept that Eric

814
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:47,679
and Dylan during the weekend's prom party, apparently they had attended.

815
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,559
They were at the school on that Saturday, so they

816
00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:53,440
were saying it's possible that they had actually planted some

817
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,480
of the devices then, but it doesn't really make much.

818
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you guys have after proms there wherever

819
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:01,079
you grew up?

820
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way I like, yeah, we had it. Yeah,

821
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,679
Like it was in like the cafeteria or something like.

822
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:12,880
But if I can't remember though, because now, okay, no,

823
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,280
I remember now, because when I was in high school

824
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:20,280
prom Yeah, it was basically, uh, after parties were all

825
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,039
at like your homies houses, you know what I mean.

826
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:25,920
But it was in the gymnasium or something. If you

827
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,039
had like the main prom party was in the gymnasium

828
00:55:30,159 --> 00:55:32,519
and then everybody would go their separate ways.

829
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 3: You know.

830
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,679
Speaker 1: I grew up in Colorado, right, so like I went

831
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,760
to school like fifteen minutes down the road in Qualifine,

832
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,159
twenty minutes down the road, so like not too far.

833
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,880
We have after prom parties at the school, like, so

834
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,360
we'll go like all of our proms are somewhere else,

835
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,679
like we had prom like a museum and like some

836
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,360
people have prom like the the football stadium, like problems

837
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,079
somewhere else. And then after prom, you have like an

838
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:01,719
hour in between to get back to the school where

839
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,239
they have set up the school and whatever theme and

840
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,320
it's like the gym, And for our school, it was

841
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,480
like the gym, the hallways, and then the cafeteria and

842
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:12,639
it's all set up with like different like like hint

843
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:16,599
of tattoos and different like like like activities to do

844
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,719
all throughout the school until like five am the next morning.

845
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,679
And the goal was to stop after proms being at

846
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:28,639
people's houses to prevent like duys and deaths and stuff.

847
00:56:28,639 --> 00:56:33,079
Speaker 2: You're totally right. I completely forgot both my junior and

848
00:56:33,159 --> 00:56:37,000
senior year prom experiences so that they were both that

849
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:41,400
at separate places. One was like at some I think

850
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,599
it was some event center, yeah, like thirty minutes from

851
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:48,039
the school probably I think in Elvis there or something.

852
00:56:48,559 --> 00:56:51,639
And then and then another one I think we had

853
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:56,840
at near like this polo field where they would play

854
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,840
polo or something, and and there was like this nice

855
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,800
centered there where they would have weddings and stuff like that.

856
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,239
And I think we had our senior prom or maybe

857
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,400
my junior prom there, but yeah, I think you're you're right,

858
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,039
the after parties would be at like the gym, and

859
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,960
then the rest of us would just if if we

860
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,920
wanted to go to the after party. I think because

861
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,239
that was like my senior year. I can barely remember, right,

862
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:22,679
Like a lot.

863
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:27,039
Speaker 1: Of kids don't go. But like like if you're there's

864
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,719
no record of Eric going to prom, not that he

865
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,079
didn't go, we just don't. Like with Dylan, we're like

866
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:35,679
he went with Robin, but with Eric, we're like, did

867
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:37,480
he go to prom? We don't know. So if you

868
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,039
don't go to prom, but likelyhood if you're going to

869
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:41,960
after prom, especially like these outcasts wanting to go to

870
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:44,199
after problem. Like I was very much like trying to

871
00:57:44,199 --> 00:57:46,239
fit in. So I went to after prom at the school,

872
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:49,559
but everything's closed down, Like the only thing that's open

873
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:51,519
is like the gym's open, the cafeterias open, and the

874
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,519
hallways are open, but like everything else is locked. You

875
00:57:54,519 --> 00:57:57,039
can't get into them. Like it's not like you're you

876
00:57:57,039 --> 00:57:59,880
can just wander the school and and there's there's parent

877
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,880
it's like chaperones, there's teachers, there's people everywhere, stopping you

878
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,760
from doing anything weird because they're like worried about kids

879
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,039
like having sex at the school.

880
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:12,159
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you definitely wouldn't. Can't imagine a world where

881
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:16,920
they're just roaming around freely to plant bombs all over

882
00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:20,320
the school. Yeah right, I mean yeah, it's just fascinating

883
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,320
that this is a part of the official narrative in

884
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:23,079
the first place.

885
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:26,559
Speaker 1: But so, okay, I don't think that they were planting

886
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:32,079
bombs during after prom. Firstly, how did they get them in?

887
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:34,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

888
00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:39,519
Speaker 1: Exactly, I mean, granted, okay, I went to school, it's

889
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:45,119
what eleven twelve years after them, so like things were different,

890
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:48,599
but at the same time, like we weren't once we

891
00:58:48,599 --> 00:58:51,159
were at afterpromp like they locked the school. We weren't

892
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:53,960
leaving until unless our parents came to get us. We

893
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,880
were not leaving until the doors opened at five am

894
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,880
and we could all leave. Well, you're not bringing things

895
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,960
in and out again. It was eleven twelve years after

896
00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:09,079
they were doing this. But were they just like bringing

897
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:11,639
bombs in, setting them up and then leaving again and

898
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:16,159
bringing more bombs like that doesn't make any sense to me, No.

899
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 2: Not at all. It's it's a little bit just too

900
00:59:19,559 --> 00:59:24,079
ridiculous to imagine this is how the the explosive devices

901
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:27,239
were staged in the school. You know, it doesn't really

902
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,239
fit in my opinion. I think it's just the justification

903
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,559
and the false narrative that they had to somehow find

904
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:38,719
a way to attach in order for the general public

905
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,920
to essentially be you know, just placated in a way

906
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:49,400
by by having some type of yeah, excuse or some

907
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:53,719
in some way providing, you know, just something they could

908
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:57,800
point to they could attempt to make sense of how

909
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,079
this was conducted. But the no way do I actually

910
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:04,039
take it seriously as far as the kids themselves placed

911
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:07,760
planting all the explosives, but I think they had Like.

912
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,039
Speaker 1: This is where I have a hard time, because like

913
01:00:11,719 --> 01:00:15,440
the bombs didn't work. They didn't really go on like

914
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,000
every now and then you'd have a maltav cocktail that did,

915
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:22,320
but like these bombs didn't explode. So that's where I'm like,

916
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,719
maybe the kids didn't create these bombs because they wouldn't

917
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:25,519
be very good at it.

918
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:29,239
Speaker 2: That's true, And I mean I go back and forth.

919
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:34,000
Was it like twenty seven pipe bombs? I think yeah.

920
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,480
So basically the details of the weapons and ammunition used

921
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:41,119
in the shooting. There was like a total of one

922
01:00:41,199 --> 01:00:44,800
hundred and eighty eight rounds that were fired allegedly during

923
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:49,440
the mask or by the perpetrators. So I think it

924
01:00:49,679 --> 01:00:54,760
was Eric fired twice as much as Dylan did, which

925
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,559
was very interesting. Just as far as Eric fired his

926
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:02,480
carbine rifle like ninety six times, forty seven shots outside,

927
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,719
thirty six shots inside, and thirteen shots in the library,

928
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:12,840
Harris apparently also discharged his shotgun twenty five times and

929
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,960
twenty one times were in the library for inside the school,

930
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:21,119
so he did not fire a shotgun outside the school.

931
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:24,760
But Kleebeold fired the tech nine like fifty five times

932
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:29,920
and only three shots were outside the rest all thirty

933
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,280
one were inside and twenty one were in the library.

934
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:38,920
But yeah, it seems like the complex and highly planned

935
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,719
attack involved the several improvised explosive devices. But it was

936
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,000
like a total of ninety nine bombs they had created, yeah,

937
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,880
which is that's a significant number. I mean, and as

938
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,239
I said, twenty seven pipe bombs, forty eight carbon dioxide

939
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,400
cartridges that were filled with gunpowder they called crickets, right,

940
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,119
which is one of which I remember one of the

941
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:08,800
victim witnesses accounts in the in the the cafeteria just

942
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,159
claimed that he like dealing through one of the crickets

943
01:02:12,519 --> 01:02:17,840
toward cord a victim that he was basically attempting to kill,

944
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,800
but wasn't really concerned with, you know, following it through

945
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,280
very much. And it was very strange. But then the

946
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,360
propane bombs also, which we're using the cafeteria, I think

947
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,519
you had two that were found in the shooter's cars, right,

948
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:37,719
and there was another location as well, in an open

949
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:42,239
field near the smoking hangout I think where it went off.

950
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,119
But it was ultimately.

951
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: Backpack, right you're talking about, Yes, it was. So it

952
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:52,880
was like two main streets over and like three miles south, right, Okay,

953
01:02:53,039 --> 01:02:55,400
And it did go off, But this is what I

954
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,519
don't again, what I don't understand. So it had been

955
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:00,440
snowing in the days like leading up to this, and

956
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,840
so like the ground was wet. So you have this

957
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,000
like bomb in this backpack that it's supposed to be

958
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,400
a distraction, and then they put it out right away

959
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,760
because like it's not like it's lighting a bunch of stuff.

960
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,840
It's just like it went off and they were a

961
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,480
small fire. They put it out like the ground's wet,

962
01:03:16,679 --> 01:03:19,480
like it's not going to do anything exactly.

963
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:22,159
Speaker 2: They concluded that it was exactly that, that it was

964
01:03:22,199 --> 01:03:26,880
intended to be a diversion apparently. And but yeah, they

965
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:31,159
had they I mean, they understood how to create explosive

966
01:03:31,159 --> 01:03:34,840
devices to a certain extent because they understood how to

967
01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:40,519
at least basically provide the ignition, you know, which was

968
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:46,800
I think storm matches. They had Canon fuses and model

969
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,800
rocket igniters, as well as these timing devices that were

970
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,559
built from alarm clocks, so that was for the propane bombs.

971
01:03:56,199 --> 01:03:59,760
And then they carried match strikers that they taped their

972
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:03,760
forms for easy ignition for the pipe bombs and steal

973
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,280
two bombs apparently whenever they were walking through the school.

974
01:04:07,199 --> 01:04:12,639
But yeah, Harris was experimenting with nay palm at some point,

975
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:18,880
like this was documented, and and he envisioned creating a

976
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:24,000
sort of backpack flamethrower, right, and he that was apparently

977
01:04:24,039 --> 01:04:27,840
something he wanted to do, and they both I guess,

978
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:32,119
attempted to get another friend, Chris Morris, who I remember

979
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:35,880
I put one of his interviews in the episode, and

980
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:39,320
he was obviously a member allegedly a member of the TCM.

981
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:45,760
The trench coat mafia and that tread well he had, Yeah,

982
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,000
I think so, because he basically he gave the backpack

983
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:52,840
to the backpack had the basement tapes that he had

984
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,880
in his bag when the shooting all began, and he

985
01:04:57,039 --> 01:04:59,679
just goes to the office and leaves the backpack with

986
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:05,360
the tape there. Very strange. Yeah, Now, in every way

987
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,000
his story seems like he was he understood what was

988
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:12,079
about to take place and in some sort of fashion

989
01:05:12,719 --> 01:05:16,519
was intended to either play a role that more significantly

990
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:19,880
than he actually did. Because if you're I think it was.

991
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,119
He was the one who was officially arrested and apprehended

992
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:27,559
as a suspect originally, and he was all upset because

993
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:31,679
they they were treating him as a suspect instead of

994
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,360
as a like a witness. Right, But again, very strange,

995
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,480
and I mean to be experimenting with napalm in the

996
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,559
first place. But then they try and recruit Chris Morris,

997
01:05:43,679 --> 01:05:47,880
the same kid, to apparently keep the napalm at his house,

998
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:52,840
but he claims to have refused. And then Harris also

999
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,000
tried to attempt to recruit him to be the third shooter,

1000
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,880
but he played He said that Eric played it off

1001
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,679
as a joke when he rejected the offer, which is,

1002
01:06:04,519 --> 01:06:07,480
I don't know, it seems pretty convenient honestly in hindsight,

1003
01:06:07,519 --> 01:06:08,159
you know what I mean.

1004
01:06:08,239 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, well everything I feel like everything about Chris Moore,

1005
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,119
I don't believe his story at all. And then like

1006
01:06:13,159 --> 01:06:14,639
his interviews.

1007
01:06:14,199 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: Afterwards, they're so strange.

1008
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's something weird about that guy, Like he

1009
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,280
knew what was going on, Like he was very well

1010
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,960
aware of the whole thing. That's why he was conveniently

1011
01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:28,599
like not there. And then he conveniently came back to

1012
01:06:28,639 --> 01:06:32,199
the school because his friend's dad was a teacher there,

1013
01:06:32,199 --> 01:06:34,400
and they're like they were at home playing video games

1014
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,360
and now they need to come back because something's going on.

1015
01:06:37,239 --> 01:06:40,159
Speaker 2: Exactly. He claims that what his I think his dad

1016
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:45,679
told him. I think his dad claimed that Chrisk called

1017
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,880
him and told him that something was happening at the school,

1018
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,840
and he's worried that it was Dylan and Eric. Yeah right,

1019
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:52,719
So I mean.

1020
01:06:52,519 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: That before anybody knew who it was or like what

1021
01:06:55,079 --> 01:06:55,519
was going on.

1022
01:06:55,679 --> 01:07:01,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just insane to me. But yeah, uh, I

1023
01:07:01,159 --> 01:07:04,760
honestly I felt like just for everyone to get a

1024
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:09,280
glimpse at at the on the ground situation and a

1025
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,639
little bit of the media spotlight there. Uh, there's a

1026
01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:17,639
pretty good eyewitness news ABC report from the moment. But

1027
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,239
let me see if I can actually share this the

1028
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,599
right way the first time instead of last time. Hold on,

1029
01:07:24,679 --> 01:07:32,400
let me see close request. Did you see the request

1030
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,760
that I just said? Okay, okay, cool, cool? All right

1031
01:07:38,239 --> 01:07:45,280
now if I remember I had to yeah share sound

1032
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:50,719
there we go. Okay, can you see this now? I?

1033
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:52,599
Speaker 1: Oh, there it is okay.

1034
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 4: Creation into the high school massacre is slow moving and dangerous.

1035
01:07:57,519 --> 01:08:00,360
The two gunmen who went on the rampage booby trapped

1036
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,360
the building and even themselves. All day long, investigators have

1037
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,239
searched the homes of both teenage killers. In one of them,

1038
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:11,880
police say they found bomb making materials. Specially trained officers

1039
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:15,840
searching the school today found close to thirty explosive devices

1040
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,880
all around the building. Authorities have also revised the death toll,

1041
01:08:20,079 --> 01:08:23,079
now saying fifteen people were killed, including the two gunmen.

1042
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,279
Most of the bodies are still inside the school, but

1043
01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:29,279
families of the murder victims have been notified. And Jay

1044
01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:32,800
Burwett begins our coverage. He is live in Lyttleton, Colorado.

1045
01:08:33,039 --> 01:08:34,359
In Jay and Roz.

1046
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 5: We're being kept far away. The building off in the

1047
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,199
distance is still sealed off, as you said, the bodies

1048
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:43,119
have not yet been removed. A total of fifteen people

1049
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:46,720
are believed to have died here, twelve students, one faculty member,

1050
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,359
and the two young killers. Investigators say this attack peers

1051
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:52,560
who have been carefully planned for a long time.

1052
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 6: One by one, students returned to Columbine High and left

1053
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,760
bouquets of flowers in a park half a mile away.

1054
01:09:01,239 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 2: A little bit of pain, little bit of everything at once.

1055
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,640
It's deep, you know, but it's got to be strong.

1056
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 5: Parents.

1057
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:16,159
Speaker 7: Hug your kids, be happy that you're with them. Kids,

1058
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:20,319
Grab your friends, puld them tight, and never be mad

1059
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:23,239
at people, because it could happen in a second that

1060
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:23,920
they'll be gone.

1061
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 6: Investigators found their first pipe bomb in the parking lot,

1062
01:09:28,079 --> 01:09:31,079
and the Denver bomb Squad immediately sealed off the building.

1063
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:36,000
Robotic cameras later found the entire school was booby trapped.

1064
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,520
Eric Harris and Dylan Cleebold had apparently committed suicide, but

1065
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,000
investigators say they spent their final moments rigging the building

1066
01:09:44,039 --> 01:09:47,920
and their own bodies with more than two dozen pipe bombs.

1067
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:53,119
Amid the gunshots and bomb blasts, hundreds of students ran

1068
01:09:53,199 --> 01:09:56,439
for their lives, stalked in their own school by two

1069
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,760
of their own classmates who went on a rampage.

1070
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 7: They're getting shot all around me.

1071
01:10:02,319 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: There was a guy at a table right next to us,

1072
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,920
next to me and her, and they just shot him

1073
01:10:06,199 --> 01:10:08,640
and then walked away, and then he was just sitting

1074
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:09,439
there in a pool of blood.

1075
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,199
Speaker 6: Detectives now believe they entered the school through a back

1076
01:10:12,279 --> 01:10:16,039
door and stormed down the hallways. They cornered students in

1077
01:10:16,079 --> 01:10:19,520
the cafeteria and the library, where there was nowhere to run.

1078
01:10:20,199 --> 01:10:23,880
Witnesses say they laughed as they fired their weapons, executing

1079
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,279
their classmates who begged for their lives.

1080
01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:30,039
Speaker 3: They were shooting anyone of color wearing a white hat

1081
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:33,880
or played a sport, and they didn't care who it was,

1082
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,840
and it was all at close range, screaming.

1083
01:10:37,119 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 8: After they'd shoot up something, they'd go, whoo, just a

1084
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:43,159
pleasure for him.

1085
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 6: This morning, students packed a prayer.

1086
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:51,119
Speaker 2: That's part of that made me think clearly they were

1087
01:10:51,159 --> 01:10:55,680
potentially in this delusional dream state if they were actually

1088
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,800
conducting any of this on the ground. In terms of

1089
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,520
if we're meant to believe the actions and movements of

1090
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,279
Dylan and Eric in the school, then the only way

1091
01:11:07,279 --> 01:11:10,119
that I could justify that they were willing to go

1092
01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:13,399
through with this. Now, obviously I'm willing to imagine a

1093
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:18,000
world where someone is psychologically broken to this state and

1094
01:11:18,039 --> 01:11:21,920
willing to engage in such sinister forms of violence. But

1095
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,359
at the same time, if we're considering all the other

1096
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:30,600
factors involved in elements in this case, then it's impossible

1097
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,840
not to consider the idea that they could have been

1098
01:11:34,079 --> 01:11:38,560
in this psychological state of mind where they believed they

1099
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,560
were almost in the doom Wad levels that they had

1100
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:46,239
created from the video game that modeled the diagram of

1101
01:11:46,279 --> 01:11:49,359
the school. And it's almost like, imagine if that was

1102
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:51,479
a part of their conditioning, like Sir Han at the

1103
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:57,359
shooting range, going through the reinforcement of the layers of programming,

1104
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,479
and you just think you're walking through through the doom

1105
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,079
Wade level that resembles the school that you played so

1106
01:12:03,159 --> 01:12:06,479
many times while you were under your your hypnotic conditioning trance.

1107
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,439
Whatever the case may be, I just thought as possible,

1108
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,439
But I won't play this too much longer.

1109
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: I just think especially takes the way that they wandered

1110
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:17,880
through the school, like like we talked about before we

1111
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:19,760
started recording, like they definitely could have done a lot

1112
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,920
more damage and then they didn't. So like your theory

1113
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,079
actually makes a lot more sense because like they after

1114
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:28,800
they left the library, like they killed all those kids

1115
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:30,920
in the library, then they left the library, and then

1116
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,039
they kind of like just wandered through the school aimlessly,

1117
01:12:33,079 --> 01:12:35,720
like randomly shooting their guns. They like wandered through whatever,

1118
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:41,079
like like they were like in a fake place, and

1119
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:45,119
like they didn't kill anybody else, Like they just wandered

1120
01:12:45,119 --> 01:12:47,920
eventually back to the library where they killed themselves.

1121
01:12:48,319 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's so strange, honestly, but again, I

1122
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:57,159
just felt like this news report brings you back to

1123
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:00,720
the moment for at least the a I think it's

1124
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,079
important too. That's what I try and do with all

1125
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:07,920
my solo projects is reflect back to what it felt

1126
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,000
like to have been there, you know, as much as possible,

1127
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:17,359
and to almost evoked that specific emotional state in a

1128
01:13:17,399 --> 01:13:20,359
way as well, because I think it's so lost in

1129
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:24,640
translation in terms of just the memory whole nature of

1130
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,760
the demortalization news cycle and in the fast pace of

1131
01:13:30,279 --> 01:13:34,960
just again, these major impact just as far as far

1132
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:39,279
as like emotion arousing, violent false flags are just immediately

1133
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,760
the short memory of the general population is just extraordinary. Right,

1134
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,439
So unfortunately we're doomed to repeat so much of the

1135
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:55,720
same playbook because the pattern recognition doesn't exist. And I think, yeah,

1136
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,479
only to the few and exclusive members of right the

1137
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,039
objective truth movement who are attempting to make sense of

1138
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:09,319
any of the official narratives connected to these cases tend

1139
01:14:09,359 --> 01:14:13,880
to actually expose themselves enough to get a working theory

1140
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,720
as to what's a little bit more plausible in terms

1141
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,600
of how this played out. But anyway, I'll end this

1142
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,439
here in just a minute. But I did think it's

1143
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:27,039
just fascinating to actually hear some of the students recalling

1144
01:14:27,079 --> 01:14:27,840
this event.

1145
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,159
Speaker 6: Service at a local church and stood in the parking lot,

1146
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:36,159
embraced one another and wiped away their tears. Graduation was

1147
01:14:36,239 --> 01:14:40,119
less than two weeks away. Amber Burgess is Columbine High

1148
01:14:40,119 --> 01:14:41,439
School's homecoming Queen.

1149
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 2: I don't even know if people are going to be

1150
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,359
able to walk back in the school again and seek

1151
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:48,960
empty chairs, and it'll be horrible.

1152
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 5: Now they have been attempting to identify the bodies inside

1153
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,479
the school all day today. At a news conference just

1154
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,920
a few minutes ago, the county prosecutor updated reporters on

1155
01:15:01,039 --> 01:15:03,159
their efforts to identify the bodies.

1156
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:11,560
Speaker 9: We have completed tentative notifications to I believe all of

1157
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,399
the family members of the people who are still inside

1158
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,600
the school. Only two of the victims have been removed

1159
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,640
at least the last time I was down down at

1160
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,960
the scene. We have a number of others that are

1161
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,880
still at the scene. But we've completed those tentative identifications

1162
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,680
to the families and notified them that based on descriptions

1163
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,600
and other criteria that they have provided to us, that

1164
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:38,239
we've been able to identify them.

1165
01:15:38,399 --> 01:15:41,319
Speaker 5: That now the latest word from the county prosecutor. Here

1166
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:46,159
once again a recap. Fifteen people dead, sixteen people hospitalized,

1167
01:15:46,279 --> 01:15:50,119
five of them in critical condition. Lives and I Littleton, Colorado,

1168
01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:52,079
and Jay Burkett's seven.

1169
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 10: Eyewitness sneers all right, NJ. Thank you, President Clinton, saying

1170
01:15:55,239 --> 01:15:58,199
he and his aides are struggling to understand why all

1171
01:15:58,239 --> 01:16:01,479
of this happened. The President said early intervention is the

1172
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:02,920
key to preventing trouble.

1173
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 8: We must all do more to recognize and look for

1174
01:16:08,039 --> 01:16:12,960
the early warning signals that deeply troubled young people send

1175
01:16:14,119 --> 01:16:19,880
often before they explode into violence. Surely more of them

1176
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:24,640
can be saved and more innocent victims and tragedies can

1177
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:25,319
be avoided.

1178
01:16:26,039 --> 01:16:29,199
Speaker 10: The White House as President Clinton, may visit Littleton, Colorado

1179
01:16:29,239 --> 01:16:31,279
at a time when it is best for the community.

1180
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,199
Speaker 4: Ross the two killers belong to a group of students

1181
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:37,199
that named itself the trench Coat Mafia, and we are

1182
01:16:37,239 --> 01:16:40,399
beginning to learn more about these teenagers. Stacy Sager is

1183
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,119
live in the eyewitness newsroom with that side of the story.

1184
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:47,159
Speaker 11: Stacy well ros They wore black trench coats, combat boots,

1185
01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:51,199
and some were Nazi crosses. They hated jocks, loved the Internet,

1186
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:54,039
and were fascinated by World War Two. They were known

1187
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:56,800
as the trench Coat Mafia. The question is why didn't

1188
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:01,439
anyone know they turned so violent? The clues were here

1189
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:05,560
in Littleton long before the deadly violence. The yearbook pictures

1190
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:10,279
with handwritten captions about insanity. This alleged trench Coat Mafia

1191
01:17:10,359 --> 01:17:13,039
website shut down shortly after.

1192
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 1: ABC News took these pictures.

1193
01:17:15,119 --> 01:17:18,359
Speaker 11: It even had a so called hit list mentioning jocks

1194
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:22,560
and one substitute teacher as potential targets, and there were

1195
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,199
the outfits the dark coat and boots associated with Hollywood's

1196
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:31,479
more violent scenes, but no one knew the talk would

1197
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:32,479
become reality.

1198
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,520
Speaker 12: I think it's just a gang of about like twenty

1199
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:37,000
guys to call themselves the trench Coat Mafia.

1200
01:17:37,079 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 2: Hey, like we're.

1201
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,079
Speaker 12: Trench coats every day to school, like, and we're makeup

1202
01:17:40,119 --> 01:17:42,640
and like craze their nails and stuff. Right, They're just

1203
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,640
like everyone kind of thinks somebody's difference and they always

1204
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:46,760
just to hang out with themselves.

1205
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 13: Only I mean they looked like, yeah, they sort of

1206
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,920
had vibes of, you know, not exactly loving everyone, but

1207
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,039
I mean they never walked around the halls, you know,

1208
01:17:55,279 --> 01:17:57,039
saying you know, you're all gonna die.

1209
01:17:57,239 --> 01:18:00,079
Speaker 11: Students also say that members of the small suburb and

1210
01:18:00,199 --> 01:18:03,800
gang bragged about their guns and AMMO. One cyber chatter

1211
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,800
even recalled a previous warning that a certain El Caress

1212
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,159
wrote about preparing for the big April twentieth, You're all

1213
01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:15,119
gonna be sorry. Terrorism experts widely know that this time

1214
01:18:15,119 --> 01:18:19,079
of year has been extremely violent throughout history. April nineteenth

1215
01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:22,359
is the anniversary of many painful moments from Waco to

1216
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,439
Ruby Ridge to Oklahoma City, and this past. April twentieth

1217
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:30,399
was the one hundred and tenth anniversary of Adolph Hitler's birthday.

1218
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 14: April twentieth might just turn out to be a what

1219
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,439
a shed date for an event such as what occurred

1220
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,800
in Colorado and might in the future precipitate other types

1221
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:42,319
of events like this.

1222
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:46,119
Speaker 11: Experts we talked to feel it is tragic the isolation

1223
01:18:46,359 --> 01:18:49,000
and hatred went undetected at the school.

1224
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: Yet they say the.

1225
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,199
Speaker 11: Key to preventing future violence may really lie with parents

1226
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:56,560
and kids at home. Teach them.

1227
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,199
Speaker 6: They allowed to express their anger and words they are none.

1228
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 2: I thought it was so perfect that she has a

1229
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:08,600
very obvious German accent. I'm like, they chose the perfect

1230
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:13,159
woman to talk about essentially. Uh, you know what I

1231
01:19:13,199 --> 01:19:15,920
think is the most ridiculous part of what the government

1232
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,680
pushes in this context, which is, uh, you know, obviously

1233
01:19:20,399 --> 01:19:26,359
there there's some sort of guilt that is associated inherently

1234
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:29,560
with the parents and involved, right and and basically there

1235
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,039
should be these early warning signs, as as Clinton himself

1236
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:38,039
had mentioned. And and that is something that I very

1237
01:19:38,119 --> 01:19:42,000
much think is a part of infiltrating the family dynamic

1238
01:19:42,119 --> 01:19:44,840
and the family unit in itself. And this would be

1239
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,039
a clear and obvious, obvious, uh kind of avenue for

1240
01:19:49,039 --> 01:19:50,920
for achieving something such as that.

1241
01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:55,279
Speaker 1: But they immediately answer that or say that there's gonna

1242
01:19:55,279 --> 01:19:57,840
be copycats. They're like, there's going to be more of these.

1243
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:03,399
It's like the according to their narrative, there hasn't been before,

1244
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,520
even though like in my episode, I proved that there

1245
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,199
have been school shootings since the beginning of our country.

1246
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,680
But anyway, like there, yeah, there's going to be like copycats.

1247
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:19,560
Speaker 2: Like and of course I think the Columbine effect did

1248
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,680
very much put this on the map as far as

1249
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:28,199
school shootings in terms of of the psychological uh you

1250
01:20:28,199 --> 01:20:31,399
know effect in itself, as far as it becoming this

1251
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:39,039
new almost replacing the serial killer narrative, which in many

1252
01:20:39,039 --> 01:20:44,239
ways I feel like is manufactured and by design because

1253
01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:47,640
it's it's just another way that you can destabilize modern

1254
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:52,079
society and this domestic form. And and I think, you know,

1255
01:20:52,279 --> 01:20:55,039
the nickname that just as far as the nicknames they

1256
01:20:55,039 --> 01:20:59,159
had provided to the pipe bombs themselves were very interesting

1257
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:03,239
and almost revealing it at a certain stage. And it

1258
01:21:03,279 --> 01:21:07,319
was Eric had a website that had all these various

1259
01:21:07,359 --> 01:21:11,119
instructions on how to make pipe bombs and molotovs. And

1260
01:21:11,159 --> 01:21:15,359
by the way, the ghera affidavit which would have provided

1261
01:21:16,119 --> 01:21:19,720
a legitimate pretext for obtaining a search warrant to search

1262
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,359
through Eric Harris's property, which should have taken place a

1263
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:28,159
year exactly after the van break in where he and

1264
01:21:28,239 --> 01:21:31,279
Dylan are essentially caught in the act and by the

1265
01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:35,800
arresting officer who I believed to have potentially sexually abused them,

1266
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:39,880
and that was yeah. He had John DeCamp who was

1267
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:43,520
a former Nebraska state senator who made this claim specifically,

1268
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,560
and they even claimed they had an internal tape that

1269
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:52,319
they had had I guess in some way it was

1270
01:21:52,359 --> 01:21:55,039
within the Jefferson County Police Department. They had this tape

1271
01:21:55,079 --> 01:22:00,680
that was labeled in evidence but also hidden in gone missing,

1272
01:22:01,159 --> 01:22:05,079
which was called the Tim Walsh butt rape tape, and

1273
01:22:05,359 --> 01:22:09,720
it was yeah. Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Ti Tim Walsh

1274
01:22:10,239 --> 01:22:13,920
was the arresting officer for Eric Harris and seemed on

1275
01:22:14,039 --> 01:22:17,560
the van break and leading up to the mass shooting.

1276
01:22:18,359 --> 01:22:22,199
So what happened is basically, there had been all of

1277
01:22:22,239 --> 01:22:26,359
these prior run ins with authorities from Jefferson County, and

1278
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,760
Eric himself had already gotten multiple calls. One of the

1279
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:35,359
neighbors of Wayne Harris and Eric, Wayne's father. One of

1280
01:22:35,359 --> 01:22:38,680
the neighbors of the family basically called the authorities and

1281
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,239
reported the fact that Eric had burned up one of

1282
01:22:42,239 --> 01:22:44,840
their trees, had set it on fire, and like had

1283
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:50,079
actually also it was one of their friends who what

1284
01:22:50,199 --> 01:22:53,920
was his name? He had also done many different interviews

1285
01:22:54,359 --> 01:22:57,920
following the It was Brooks Brown, right, who Yeah, he

1286
01:22:58,039 --> 01:22:59,720
was also one of the scribe.

1287
01:23:00,319 --> 01:23:03,359
Speaker 1: He's an interesting character because he's the guy and Eric

1288
01:23:04,119 --> 01:23:07,520
hates right and then all of a sudden they're like

1289
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:11,239
on good terms again. And then that he sees Eric

1290
01:23:11,319 --> 01:23:16,000
sees Brooks as they're like walking past each other as

1291
01:23:16,119 --> 01:23:17,760
Eric's on his way to go shoot up the school,

1292
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,760
and it's like, hey, Brooks, get on out of here

1293
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,960
because something weird is gonna happen. And Brook's like, Roger,

1294
01:23:23,039 --> 01:23:25,600
that my guy, I'm out, Like I know.

1295
01:23:26,239 --> 01:23:29,399
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it is the most ridiculous story as

1296
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:32,800
far as what Brooks claimed to happen the morning of right,

1297
01:23:33,359 --> 01:23:37,319
And it's just like something that I think it's hard

1298
01:23:37,399 --> 01:23:42,000
to imagine that both these friends, you know, Morris and

1299
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,600
Brooks were providing an official timeline that that would fit

1300
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:52,239
anything other than you know, almost in a certain sense

1301
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:57,439
obviously removing any potential guilt, and it seemed like an

1302
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:01,960
alibi in a real way. But yeah, I don't know.

1303
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:06,720
It's very strange to actually go through what he claims happened, obviously,

1304
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:12,560
because he warns Eric allegedly warns Brooks to leave, and

1305
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:15,439
I think it was Eric and Dylan showed up at

1306
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,760
school at like six point fifteen, right, so it's the

1307
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:23,840
same as any other morning, allegedly. But then there are

1308
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:27,560
all these subsequent reports that they left the school at

1309
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:31,399
an undisclosed time and they don't quite know when. But

1310
01:24:32,199 --> 01:24:35,199
this was apparently for them to change their clothes before

1311
01:24:35,199 --> 01:24:39,800
the attack, but the details about when and where is

1312
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:44,079
obviously not documented properly. But you had the Eric and

1313
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:47,600
Dylan leaving to change their clothes in one of the

1314
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:53,439
Columbine report diagrams, I think, which basically showed them returning

1315
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,159
separately to Columbine High School, and it was around I

1316
01:24:57,199 --> 01:24:59,840
think just before eleven, right.

1317
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,119
Speaker 1: Like just before and just after they like like kind

1318
01:25:03,159 --> 01:25:04,319
of sandwiched the eleven.

1319
01:25:04,119 --> 01:25:09,199
Speaker 2: O'clock hour exactly. So then as they arrived separately back

1320
01:25:09,239 --> 01:25:13,039
on campus, they're wearing the wrapped round sunglasses and the

1321
01:25:13,039 --> 01:25:16,720
black trench coats. Right, And Harris arrives at like eleven

1322
01:25:17,279 --> 01:25:19,960
around then, as you said, and parks his vehicle and

1323
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,439
the junior student parking lot. I didn't think it was

1324
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:24,640
interesting they parked in different parking lots.

1325
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:29,079
Speaker 1: But Harris, if you so, I've been to Columbine several

1326
01:25:29,119 --> 01:25:31,239
times just because, like I went there for different like

1327
01:25:31,279 --> 01:25:38,119
competitions and stuff. So the there are the junior and

1328
01:25:38,159 --> 01:25:40,359
the senior parking lots. They're on like opposite sides of

1329
01:25:40,399 --> 01:25:42,399
the school. So if they were going to blow up,

1330
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:45,960
like logically they're going to blow up their cars, they're

1331
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,239
now in different parking lots, so potentially it would cause

1332
01:25:48,279 --> 01:25:52,439
more damage damage, right versus both of them being the

1333
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:54,439
same parking lots exactly.

1334
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:59,199
Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense. And but yeah, I mean Brooks Brown, right.

1335
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:03,960
He's he had recently patched up a longstanding series of

1336
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:09,159
disputes with Eric, and he tells the He tells the

1337
01:26:09,279 --> 01:26:12,319
Jefferson County Sheriff's office that he had been smoking a

1338
01:26:12,359 --> 01:26:15,800
cigarette when he was surprised to see Eric, who he

1339
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,520
earlier noted had been absent from a class test. So

1340
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,600
he claims Eric was a great student, unlikely to miss

1341
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:28,880
school or any school days, especially with an important test

1342
01:26:29,039 --> 01:26:34,159
or academic obligation, is what he said. And so brown

1343
01:26:34,319 --> 01:26:38,680
says that he then berates Eric from missing the test,

1344
01:26:39,319 --> 01:26:44,159
and Harris acted entirely unconcerned and replied it doesn't matter anymore.

1345
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:48,359
And Harris allegedly tells Brooks Brooks, I like you now,

1346
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:52,159
get out of here, go home. So that's when Brooks

1347
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:56,680
apparently claims he's feeling uneasy and already prepared to skip

1348
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:01,680
his next class, walked away down South Pierce Street. So yeah,

1349
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,439
and then about ten to fifteen minutes later, you have

1350
01:27:05,279 --> 01:27:08,079
Eric entering the school through the west entrance, and then

1351
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:13,800
Dylan arrives back around eleven ten, apparently in parks in

1352
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:17,119
the adjoining senior student parking lot as you'd mentioned. So again,

1353
01:27:17,159 --> 01:27:20,199
it's just interesting to me that story, right that Brooks

1354
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:24,600
provided for Again, he's tipped off to leave the school,

1355
01:27:25,279 --> 01:27:30,399
you know, it's just it's very strange that they would go.

1356
01:27:31,119 --> 01:27:37,079
I don't know, I can't imagine that interaction actually taking place, right,

1357
01:27:37,199 --> 01:27:41,800
But you know, that's just my personal view on it.

1358
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,920
But I will say that the nickname Pipe bombs. Like

1359
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:48,159
I was mentioning earlier, they're interesting because it does look

1360
01:27:48,279 --> 01:27:52,520
like not only was there all of the were there

1361
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,039
are all of these instructions about how to make and

1362
01:27:55,119 --> 01:27:59,319
craft these bombs and molotops, but apparently the extensive use

1363
01:27:59,359 --> 01:28:03,319
of shrapnel was a part of what was portrayed on

1364
01:28:03,319 --> 01:28:08,439
his website. So but yeah, Wayne Harris the father, he

1365
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,439
even discovered one of the pipe bombs leading up to

1366
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,960
the date of the shooting. And yeah, Harris's journal logged

1367
01:28:16,079 --> 01:28:19,840
the creation of twenty five bype bombs in total. And

1368
01:28:20,199 --> 01:28:23,840
Dylan scared his coworkers at Blackjack Pizza by bringing a

1369
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:29,439
pipe bomb into work and they so they named some

1370
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,319
of these bombs. And after the massacre, two pipe bombs

1371
01:28:33,359 --> 01:28:36,439
had been left in Dylan's bedroom. One was given the

1372
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:41,760
name Vengeance and another Atlanta, which was assumed to have

1373
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:47,079
been named after the Olympic Park bombing apparently, And so

1374
01:28:48,079 --> 01:28:52,239
you know, it makes sense, but they had eight propane

1375
01:28:52,359 --> 01:28:57,039
tanks all converted into bombs, and just the weekend prior

1376
01:28:57,399 --> 01:29:00,720
just before the shooting, Harris and Dylan and uh, they

1377
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,079
bought two pro paane tanks and other I think a

1378
01:29:04,119 --> 01:29:07,439
few other supplies. At the hardware store. Yeah, and then

1379
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,800
it was like six pro Paine tanks on the morning

1380
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,560
of the attack that I think Eric had had bought

1381
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,479
right at a gas station because some security camera had

1382
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:19,560
picked him up at the gas station. He was buying

1383
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:24,760
like blue rhino propane tanks. But interesting for you to

1384
01:29:25,359 --> 01:29:29,039
purchase those the morning of though you knowing this for

1385
01:29:29,159 --> 01:29:33,479
over a year. Yeah, well that seems like last minute,

1386
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:38,479
you know, just prepping. But mm hmm, but yeah, it was.

1387
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 13: Uh.

1388
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,520
Speaker 2: I think the most important part is that you have

1389
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:48,319
obviously the federal involvement right that on the on the

1390
01:29:48,319 --> 01:29:53,119
ground Columbine. That's just fascinating to me. And also, uh,

1391
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:56,760
I think it was Eric had nicknamed one of the

1392
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:01,239
pipe bombs the Phoenix program, and I thought that was

1393
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:05,399
very strange because obviously that connects to the origin of

1394
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,319
nk Ultra in many ways and just as far as

1395
01:30:09,359 --> 01:30:15,640
the military experimentations utilizing mind control and yeah, so again

1396
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,319
I think that's where Jolly West got his most of

1397
01:30:19,319 --> 01:30:24,199
his experience in that line of just as far as

1398
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:28,800
the mind control avenue of experimentation, and that was all

1399
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,439
through the Phoenix project. So it makes a lot of sense.

1400
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:37,000
But again, you have all of these strange federal authorities

1401
01:30:37,039 --> 01:30:41,720
that integrated themselves into every level of the investigation. And

1402
01:30:42,119 --> 01:30:46,800
it was the FBI vault documents, which were obviously there's

1403
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:53,319
a portion that references Columbine and it was released via FOYA. Basically,

1404
01:30:53,359 --> 01:30:56,279
the internal document was dated for the day of the massacre,

1405
01:30:57,119 --> 01:31:01,560
so it says to date. The FBI sole responsibility in

1406
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:06,560
this investigation is to assist Jefferson County, Colorado authorities as requested.

1407
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:12,119
This includes providing two evidence response teams, the Denver bomb Technicians,

1408
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:15,319
the SWAT team, and a number of agents used for

1409
01:31:15,399 --> 01:31:21,560
interviewing purposes. The FBI continues liason with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,

1410
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,600
and Firearms in the US Attorney's Office for Colorado. The

1411
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,760
Denver SWAT Team assisted with the securing of a perimeter

1412
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:33,640
of the Columbine High School and evacuating students. The Denver

1413
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:37,880
ert which is obviously the evidence response team, has been

1414
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:42,319
conducting crime scene investigations, including the crime scene investigation regarding

1415
01:31:42,359 --> 01:31:46,319
the two fatalities outside of the school building, which, by

1416
01:31:46,359 --> 01:31:49,840
the way, Danny Roharbaugh I believe was a student who

1417
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:53,399
I think was killed as he was attempting to flee

1418
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:56,000
from the school, and I think he was shot and

1419
01:31:56,079 --> 01:32:00,520
killed brutally outside on the sidewalk, And they later shifted

1420
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,840
the official narrative to claim that he was shot by

1421
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,760
Dylan and Eric I forget which one on the stairwell

1422
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:11,119
just leading up to the exit. Yeah, And I don't

1423
01:32:11,159 --> 01:32:14,880
believe that was true because you have one of the

1424
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:19,720
original members of the Jefferson County Police Office who were responding,

1425
01:32:20,079 --> 01:32:23,720
one of the first responders. They claimed they had witnessed

1426
01:32:24,399 --> 01:32:27,399
one of the police officers, one of their co workers,

1427
01:32:28,279 --> 01:32:33,039
who were also one of the first to respond, apparently

1428
01:32:33,159 --> 01:32:38,720
having a happy trigger finger and pulling the trigger irresponsibly

1429
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:42,720
as soon as Danny ran out onto the sidewalk, murdering

1430
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:43,760
him in cold blood.

1431
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:50,079
Speaker 1: That makes so much sense because they found twelve gage

1432
01:32:50,079 --> 01:32:54,479
shotgun shells, they found nine millimeter, and they found forty

1433
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:59,680
caliber rounds at the scene, right, So they have all

1434
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:01,800
this in evidence, And I'm like, that doesn't make any

1435
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:05,680
sense because we know that the that both shooters were

1436
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,640
carrying a nine millimeter and a shotgun, a twelve gage shotgun.

1437
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:11,880
Where's that forty Where are those forty cows cut like

1438
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:13,680
forty milimeters rounds come from?

1439
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:15,079
Speaker 2: Exactly?

1440
01:33:15,199 --> 01:33:17,079
Speaker 1: But then my husband pointed out, and he was like,

1441
01:33:17,079 --> 01:33:22,119
if they're exchanging fire like gunfire with police, normally the

1442
01:33:22,159 --> 01:33:29,319
police will carry like forty calib Yeah, And I was like, oh, okay,

1443
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:32,840
Like that makes sense. But then does I guess? I

1444
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:35,520
didn't look at and I should have. I did poor

1445
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,840
research on my part. I didn't look at every single

1446
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,800
autopsy report I looked at because I just assumed, and

1447
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:42,960
I don't know why. I you know, what they say

1448
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:50,880
about assuming. I assumed that the autopsy would say exactly

1449
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:53,079
what the official narrative says, which is like nine millimeters

1450
01:33:53,159 --> 01:33:56,600
or twelve gage shotguns. But what I did discover in

1451
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:01,960
the autopsy report for Dylan is that his autopsy's weird.

1452
01:34:02,159 --> 01:34:04,199
So it's like eight pages long. The first couple of

1453
01:34:04,239 --> 01:34:09,720
pages says that there's no powder stipling against his head

1454
01:34:10,119 --> 01:34:14,560
and that it was a large, large caliber round that

1455
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:17,079
shot him. And then the second half of the autopsy

1456
01:34:17,119 --> 01:34:19,840
says that there is stippling and that it was a

1457
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:20,560
nine milimeter.

1458
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:27,439
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense as far as how they

1459
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:34,680
officially committed suicide. I think none of it. Actually, in

1460
01:34:35,119 --> 01:34:39,239
my opinion, I feel like they were more than likely murdered, right,

1461
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,760
That's what it looks like to me, especially the way

1462
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,720
their bodies were positioned. It seems as if in no

1463
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:50,279
way did they At one point, I think it was

1464
01:34:50,359 --> 01:34:53,159
so disputed just due to the fact that it was

1465
01:34:53,199 --> 01:34:55,840
impossible for one of them to actually go through with

1466
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:58,560
killing themselves at the angle that they found their body in,

1467
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,319
and I think that was and honestly, and so they

1468
01:35:01,359 --> 01:35:06,640
were actually making the assessment that it was potentially possible

1469
01:35:07,119 --> 01:35:10,199
that Eric had shot him before killing himself.

1470
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:12,359
Speaker 1: But that's not possible either. Did you see the picture

1471
01:35:13,239 --> 01:35:16,800
m hm, And you have Dylan's blood on Eric's like

1472
01:35:17,399 --> 01:35:19,399
pant leg yep.

1473
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:23,560
Speaker 2: I know. I'm telling you. It seems like because it

1474
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:29,640
was at one point the authorities were unsure whether they

1475
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:32,720
were even alive in the building still and yet did

1476
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:35,600
not enter, which is very interesting. It wasn't until the

1477
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,279
swat team arrived that they actually started to go through

1478
01:35:38,279 --> 01:35:41,960
the building. But it was like one thirty when there

1479
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,399
was an armored car that was brought to the school

1480
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:49,960
interest the school entrance and apparently was for cover what

1481
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,319
they claimed as all these students were fleeing the building.

1482
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:58,760
And then like two you had three kids in black

1483
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:03,079
clothes but not trench coats, but were apprehended by the

1484
01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:06,479
police in a field near the school, allegedly, and they

1485
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:11,279
were later described as friends of the gunmen, but were

1486
01:36:11,319 --> 01:36:15,399
released without for the questioning, apparently. And and so then

1487
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:19,479
you have by two thirty local you had local UH

1488
01:36:20,319 --> 01:36:25,159
or the swat team entering the teacher's lounge, and they

1489
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:28,359
began to secure the lower lower level, apparently by framing

1490
01:36:28,399 --> 01:36:30,800
some of the kids in the kitchen and bathrooms and stuff.

1491
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:34,720
And then obviously I think they were all sent to

1492
01:36:35,039 --> 01:36:40,159
Leewood Elementary or something like that. And and but yeah,

1493
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:45,680
it's very interesting because obviously the at around four thirty,

1494
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,840
it took that long for them to finally find the

1495
01:36:49,399 --> 01:36:53,119
Dylan and Eric shot in the library. Yeah, but yeah,

1496
01:36:53,239 --> 01:36:58,159
self inflicted is what they claim, obviously, but one of

1497
01:36:58,279 --> 01:37:02,079
the two found laying on on the pistol, both still

1498
01:37:02,119 --> 01:37:05,840
covered in ammunition and explosives. They were surrounded by the

1499
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,920
other ten students they killed, right, is what they were saying, obviously.

1500
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,720
But by four do you have the sheriff that's making

1501
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:16,279
an estimate of twenty five people dead, which I thought

1502
01:37:16,319 --> 01:37:20,399
was interesting, fifty wounded and referred to it as a

1503
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:27,239
suicide mission. But yeah, it was like, not till four

1504
01:37:27,399 --> 01:37:32,880
thirty did they declare the school actually safe though, But yeah, anyway,

1505
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:37,399
I thought it was very strange. Oh go go ahead, No, no, no,

1506
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:38,359
you're good. What'd you find?

1507
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:38,720
Speaker 11: So?

1508
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,960
Speaker 1: What I found interesting is that they have the swat

1509
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:47,119
coming in to the to the room, the science room

1510
01:37:47,279 --> 01:37:50,079
that Dave Sanders, the teacher, had been shot. Right, you

1511
01:37:50,119 --> 01:37:53,960
have these students administering first aid to this guy for hours.

1512
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:57,279
They have been in there, like three hours administering first

1513
01:37:57,319 --> 01:37:59,800
aid and keeping him alive, and then the swat comes

1514
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:01,479
in and they're like, you all need to leave, and

1515
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:04,279
the students, allegedly from all the information that I found,

1516
01:38:04,399 --> 01:38:05,840
they were like nervous. They're like, we don't want to

1517
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:09,399
leave him, like he's dying, and they had ignored like

1518
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:12,720
the note that said like one bleeding to death. Yeah,

1519
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,119
like they had ignored all this. And then they're like, no, no,

1520
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:16,720
we have paramedics right behind us.

1521
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:17,520
Speaker 2: You leave.

1522
01:38:18,079 --> 01:38:22,680
Speaker 1: They left, and then Swatt moves his body into like

1523
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:26,239
an adjoining room and then he bleeds to death.

1524
01:38:27,039 --> 01:38:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like.

1525
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:31,840
Speaker 1: He would not have bled to death if those students

1526
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:35,239
had continued to administer first aid. He could have survived.

1527
01:38:35,319 --> 01:38:38,439
Had paramedics come right then to relieve the students, but

1528
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,199
instead they're like, you leave, paramedics are on their way.

1529
01:38:42,319 --> 01:38:42,359
Speaker 13: No.

1530
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:47,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so crazy to actually hear what they would

1531
01:38:47,119 --> 01:38:50,880
were claimed. Obviously they believed that the authorities response is

1532
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:55,079
what caused his death. Obviously, yeah, because he wouldn't have

1533
01:38:55,279 --> 01:38:57,880
been stuck in there bleeding to death for all that time,

1534
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:02,199
you know. And yeah, it was bleeding to death was

1535
01:39:02,239 --> 01:39:04,239
the sign that they had put on there, and it

1536
01:39:04,359 --> 01:39:08,800
was in an attempt, obviously to get Coach Saunders I

1537
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:12,239
think was his name, some assistance, because I think they

1538
01:39:12,359 --> 01:39:16,520
even pulled out like a student right who apparently knew

1539
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:20,159
how to administer first date or something of that effect.

1540
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: The teachers weren't doing it. They left it to two

1541
01:39:23,039 --> 01:39:26,560
students to administer first ADID to this guy when teachers

1542
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:27,600
were in the room too.

1543
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:32,560
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, it seems like none of them had

1544
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:38,159
any proper training whatsoever, according to their statements, that this child,

1545
01:39:38,319 --> 01:39:41,239
this student was the only person, even though wouldn't you

1546
01:39:41,239 --> 01:39:43,560
imagine they had a med teacher or something like pre

1547
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:47,359
med that like taught the student how to administer you know,

1548
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:49,199
first date in the first place. I don't know I.

1549
01:39:49,159 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 1: Don't think it even matters, Like you're natural, You're naturally

1550
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:56,000
gonna apply pressure, right, Like, what is the student doing

1551
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:59,039
that's so much different than what the teacher could be doing.

1552
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:07,560
Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy that they actually were willing to

1553
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,520
just walk past and not even secure any of the

1554
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:14,880
classrooms whatsoever, you know, for hours, which how can you

1555
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:18,840
move through the building and not secure any of the classrooms.

1556
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:22,560
But I don't know, that's just the official narrative. But

1557
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,880
it was after they left the library, right is when

1558
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:31,399
they caused a fire in a store empty storage closet

1559
01:40:32,079 --> 01:40:35,840
and that was apparently around the science area or something,

1560
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:38,920
but it was extinguished by a teacher who was hiding

1561
01:40:39,279 --> 01:40:43,359
in the adjacent room at the time. But they then

1562
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:47,880
basically at one point captured on the school security cameras

1563
01:40:48,279 --> 01:40:52,399
they re entered the cafeteria. Obviously, it shows Harris crouching

1564
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,560
against the rail on the staircase. I pulled that, so

1565
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:58,479
I watched all three hours and thirty three minutes by

1566
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:02,439
the way of the only available security footage. I thought

1567
01:41:02,439 --> 01:41:05,760
so too from it. I mean, it was like, as

1568
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,000
soon as I saw the complete duration of the only

1569
01:41:09,039 --> 01:41:12,760
footage we have from Columbine security cameras has three hours

1570
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:15,319
and thirty three minutes. I was like, stop it right now,

1571
01:41:17,159 --> 01:41:21,640
trying why are you doing this to me? Yeah, it was,

1572
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:24,119
but anyway, it.

1573
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:27,000
Speaker 1: Was thirty three seconds long, Like three hours, thirty three

1574
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:28,319
minutes and thirty three seconds.

1575
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, but yeah, anyway, they they so he's it

1576
01:41:35,039 --> 01:41:39,000
was strange to actually witness him, you know, firing that

1577
01:41:39,079 --> 01:41:42,279
toward the propane tanks and stuff in the cafeteria on

1578
01:41:42,359 --> 01:41:46,479
the stairwells. But I was just trying to see if

1579
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:50,119
any of his movements looked robotic, looked you know, sort of.

1580
01:41:51,079 --> 01:41:55,159
You know, I was just trying to exactly, but you know,

1581
01:41:55,279 --> 01:41:58,239
they're just not enough footage and most of the time

1582
01:41:58,279 --> 01:42:01,800
they're not even in the the rooms where the cameras

1583
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:05,680
are recording. And by the way, the janitor perfectly timed

1584
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,960
the moment where they changed the security cams, which would

1585
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,479
have shown them allegedly, that was the window of opportunity

1586
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:15,079
and the timing that would have provided us with the

1587
01:42:15,119 --> 01:42:19,840
footage which we never saw and never will see because

1588
01:42:20,079 --> 01:42:23,760
they conveniently the janitor had had changed out the tapes

1589
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:26,079
and so we lost the footage of when Dylan and

1590
01:42:26,199 --> 01:42:29,479
Eric were bringing in the bags with some of the

1591
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:34,119
pipe bombs and things and ammunition, and they apparently placed

1592
01:42:34,119 --> 01:42:36,239
their bags with all the rest of the backpacks and

1593
01:42:36,319 --> 01:42:40,039
student bags and stuff, uh in the cafeteria whenever they

1594
01:42:40,079 --> 01:42:43,079
came in allegedly, But how are we supposed to know

1595
01:42:43,119 --> 01:42:47,359
because we don't have the footage. So again you have

1596
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:52,439
I think it was Patrick Ireland or on one of

1597
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,279
I think that was the name of the survivor. But

1598
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:57,680
it's it's very strange because no.

1599
01:42:59,279 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: Out the window.

1600
01:43:00,239 --> 01:43:03,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the guy like the window, I know, right,

1601
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:05,960
And why did it take them so long to even

1602
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:08,479
get him down? It's the whole thing was strange. But

1603
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:13,760
again it's like they were attempting to even bring down

1604
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:17,439
the library on top of the cafeteria I think is

1605
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:21,199
what they wanted the explosive devices to accomplish, to maximize

1606
01:43:21,199 --> 01:43:25,319
casualties as well. Yeah, but yeah, obviously that didn't play out.

1607
01:43:25,399 --> 01:43:30,079
But they had allegedly killed themselves by twelve oweight, that's

1608
01:43:30,079 --> 01:43:34,640
the official narrative. So twelve o eight before thirty we

1609
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:40,560
have this is the duration of police response until the

1610
01:43:41,079 --> 01:43:43,319
school itself is.

1611
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:46,920
Speaker 1: Is it's been there? They were called at eleven twenty three,

1612
01:43:47,199 --> 01:43:52,439
which was what like, I'm trying to think, like ten

1613
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:55,399
minutes after the shooting.

1614
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:58,119
Speaker 2: Has they started the shooting at like eleven thirteen to

1615
01:43:58,159 --> 01:44:01,760
eleven fifteen or something like that, So no, I think.

1616
01:44:01,640 --> 01:44:04,359
Speaker 1: They got there. They arrived at eleven twenty three is

1617
01:44:04,359 --> 01:44:07,920
when the police, like the first police officer got there.

1618
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:10,680
Speaker 2: My god, And you're like, oh yeah, talking.

1619
01:44:11,319 --> 01:44:13,720
Speaker 1: So you're just like watching all of this happen from

1620
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:16,600
outside and doing nothing, Like what is your job if

1621
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:19,479
this is happening, like not at a school. Let's say

1622
01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:20,640
we're at a mall.

1623
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:26,600
Speaker 2: You're not running in exactly. No, this was the most

1624
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:33,119
you know, just irresponsible, but more than likely. You know,

1625
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:37,000
it feels like it was the police response required to

1626
01:44:37,079 --> 01:44:39,920
maximize casualties. That's what it feels like to me, and

1627
01:44:41,119 --> 01:44:45,000
as terrible as that sounds, but just to kind of

1628
01:44:45,039 --> 01:44:51,399
reinforce the strange suicide, right, and how this allegedly took place.

1629
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:55,760
Harris sat down with his back to a bookshelf and

1630
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:59,439
fired his shotgun through the roof of his mouth. Cleebold

1631
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:02,119
went down on his knees and allegedly shot himself in

1632
01:45:02,159 --> 01:45:06,239
the left temple with his Tech nine. But again, it's

1633
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:12,159
the autopsies. Obviously it seemed to not run very parallel

1634
01:45:12,239 --> 01:45:15,680
to the official version of events, right, But we've seen

1635
01:45:15,720 --> 01:45:18,479
this kind of play out a little too often in

1636
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:24,399
my opinion. But yeah, anyway, I thought, just to mention again,

1637
01:45:25,119 --> 01:45:28,279
I had, you know, obviously that you have the evidence

1638
01:45:28,359 --> 01:45:32,319
response teams and the strained federal involvements and everything happening here,

1639
01:45:32,359 --> 01:45:38,600
But you also had the crime scene investigations being conducted

1640
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:42,079
by the federal authorities and out from under the Jefferson

1641
01:45:42,159 --> 01:45:48,920
County investigators. But that included obviously not only outside of

1642
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:51,600
the school, but the vehicles in the school parking lot

1643
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:55,479
as well. But they had Denver bomb technicians which had

1644
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:59,359
been provided by the FBI, and they were assisting EOD

1645
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:03,760
personnel in searching for numerous explosives at the school, in

1646
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:08,399
vehicles and at various residences as well. But here's the

1647
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:12,960
bizarre twist of events. During the massacre, there were significant

1648
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:19,039
communication challenges, which obviously highlighted the issues in commanding control systems.

1649
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:23,239
So on the day of the shooting, a FEMA communications

1650
01:46:23,319 --> 01:46:26,319
van was deployed to the area in order to assist

1651
01:46:26,359 --> 01:46:30,600
local authorities. This van was allegedly part of the federal

1652
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:34,079
response to the crisis. This reminds me of Sandy Hook

1653
01:46:34,319 --> 01:46:37,079
every time, because you had the FEMA comms man there.

1654
01:46:37,119 --> 01:46:40,079
You have a man in Camo with an ar running

1655
01:46:40,119 --> 01:46:43,720
through the woods being detained and then freed and let

1656
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:51,560
go with no additional questioning whatsoever. Just too many flagrants,

1657
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:58,279
kind of obscurities or just strange. There's no way in

1658
01:46:58,399 --> 01:47:01,760
hell that you can sort of allow that to occur

1659
01:47:02,359 --> 01:47:06,439
and not imagine a world where there's direct involvement there obviously,

1660
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:10,359
But so not only do you have the FEMA Comms

1661
01:47:10,399 --> 01:47:14,760
van deployed to assist the local authorities for communications, you

1662
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:19,199
have this very van as a part of the federal

1663
01:47:19,239 --> 01:47:23,439
response to the crisis, providing essential communication support to coordinate

1664
01:47:23,479 --> 01:47:29,720
efforts among various emergency response teams. So the unusual involvement

1665
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:34,039
is obviously worth mentioning because of this US major general

1666
01:47:34,399 --> 01:47:39,199
who was directly responsible for coordinating resources during the response

1667
01:47:39,239 --> 01:47:43,479
to the Columbine incident. Now, his presence obviously highlights the

1668
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:48,920
significant military and federal support that was strategically mobilized during

1669
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:53,239
this very crisis. In the major general's role included overseeing

1670
01:47:53,279 --> 01:47:57,479
the coordination of resources, ensuring that local law enforcement and

1671
01:47:57,520 --> 01:48:04,239
emergency services received the necessary support, and apparently obviously this

1672
01:48:04,319 --> 01:48:08,640
feels like unprecedented involvement in a way, especially directly after

1673
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:12,600
a school shooting takes place for both FEMA and military

1674
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:17,039
leadership to be on the ground at Columbine, which really

1675
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:21,920
underscores the effective nature of this sinister operation and strategy

1676
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:23,000
of tension in my opinion.

1677
01:48:23,279 --> 01:48:26,920
Speaker 1: But also it's not like the military's job, it's the

1678
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:29,800
FBI's job. So to me, Like when the FBI was

1679
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:32,239
brought in, I was like, that makes total sense, right,

1680
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:37,159
with something of this magnitude that is unprecedented at that point, Like,

1681
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:40,000
it totally makes sense to me that the FBI would

1682
01:48:40,039 --> 01:48:44,199
be called in and that Jeff co would heavily rely

1683
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:49,199
on the FBI. That makes sense. The fact that the

1684
01:48:49,239 --> 01:48:52,840
military was brought in doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

1685
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:55,920
And like where Littleton is, like there's not I mean,

1686
01:48:56,159 --> 01:48:59,720
Lockheed martin is very close, like the low key that's there,

1687
01:49:00,079 --> 01:49:04,079
but there's not like a military base super close to that.

1688
01:49:04,359 --> 01:49:06,720
Don't don't get me wrong, there are plenty in the area,

1689
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:10,079
but not like really close to like Columbine.

1690
01:49:10,520 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 2: Right, No, And again, where's that guy station is.

1691
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:16,359
Speaker 1: He at Buckley. Is he down at Peterson, Is he

1692
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:20,720
at Fort Carson? Like those were in Colorado Springs? I

1693
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,000
mean Buckley is an Aurora, but like that's still on

1694
01:49:23,039 --> 01:49:23,920
the other side of town.

1695
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:28,840
Speaker 2: Right. And if if Dylan and Eric were dead since

1696
01:49:30,119 --> 01:49:36,840
twelve oh eight, right, and shots were being heard ringing

1697
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:41,640
out from Columbine at three point five pm? Yeah, how

1698
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:46,039
in hell is that possible? You have more than two

1699
01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:50,479
hundred law enforcement officers and four swat teams that tried

1700
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:56,800
to stop Dylan and Eric allegedly and evacuate the wounded students.

1701
01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:00,560
How did this happen? You know, It's just there's no

1702
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:04,680
way in hell. And I think one of the original

1703
01:50:05,319 --> 01:50:09,279
first officials who were quoted by saying they essentially said,

1704
01:50:10,039 --> 01:50:13,000
we had initial people there right away, but we couldn't

1705
01:50:13,039 --> 01:50:15,399
get in. We were way out gunned.

1706
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:16,520
Speaker 1: Right.

1707
01:50:17,319 --> 01:50:19,840
Speaker 2: That's insane to me because you have the commander of

1708
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:23,119
the Jefferson County swat team who claimed, I just knew

1709
01:50:23,159 --> 01:50:26,199
the killers were armed and were better equipped than we were.

1710
01:50:27,119 --> 01:50:29,359
Speaker 1: How do you know that? Who told you that? Also?

1711
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:31,479
How do we know that they had like, how do

1712
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:32,960
you guys know that they had bombs? How do you

1713
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:35,239
know you needed the bomb squad and the swat, Like,

1714
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:39,199
how did you know all those things? Because like you

1715
01:50:39,199 --> 01:50:41,399
don't have students coming out and saying like they've got bombs.

1716
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:44,520
You got students coming out saying they have guns, they're

1717
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:45,439
shooting at us.

1718
01:50:46,279 --> 01:50:48,920
Speaker 2: Same with all the teachers who called the authorities, you know,

1719
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:53,199
in the night, nobody dispatcher, no one mentioned the bombs.

1720
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:55,640
Speaker 1: Because bombs did not go off, because yeah, they were

1721
01:50:55,760 --> 01:51:00,439
rigged right supposedly, but like those.

1722
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:03,640
Speaker 2: Are only they did. No, all they did was start

1723
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:07,920
a fire, that's it. And and it basically just smoked

1724
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:12,000
out the area and led to a major cover as

1725
01:51:12,039 --> 01:51:16,039
far as smoke cover for the security camera footage, which

1726
01:51:16,039 --> 01:51:19,720
I found very interesting, just like if you wanted to conveniently,

1727
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:23,800
you know, just cloud the vision of our ability to

1728
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:27,640
even understand what happened by viewing the security camera footage,

1729
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:30,880
you would provide almost the cloud cover of the smoke

1730
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:35,840
just for that very purpose, you know. But that's the

1731
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:38,119
way I look at the Boston marathon bombing. I think

1732
01:51:38,159 --> 01:51:41,279
the second blast was to provide the cover for the

1733
01:51:41,279 --> 01:51:47,840
crisis actors to conveniently you know, basically, they you had

1734
01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:52,439
all these strange movements and these military grade Moulage and

1735
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:56,760
these blood squib squib assemblies that were all attached to. Now,

1736
01:51:56,880 --> 01:52:00,359
this is legitimate, and it's something that I think people

1737
01:52:01,359 --> 01:52:06,760
don't just consider enough, which is the notion of legitimate

1738
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:10,399
crisis actors being utilized in some of these emotions, arousing

1739
01:52:10,760 --> 01:52:15,880
a violent false flags for that very purpose. And you know, anyway,

1740
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:18,600
but that's a whole nother story. But I just think

1741
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:24,600
that you know, the the it was the reaction of

1742
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:29,560
the authorities and the response that really I think should

1743
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:33,560
provide everyone with the most pause or you know, give

1744
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:36,920
everyone pause in that moment, because it's the most clear

1745
01:52:36,920 --> 01:52:40,920
and obvious window into how you would officially allow something

1746
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:44,800
like this to take place and then maximize the impact

1747
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:45,399
I think.

1748
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:49,119
Speaker 1: And yeah, just those two shooters in there.

1749
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:52,560
Speaker 2: I do. I think there's additional gunment, and I think

1750
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:56,640
that we have legitimate evidence and with witness testimony and

1751
01:52:57,000 --> 01:53:00,840
victim witness accounts of their being even more than three,

1752
01:53:01,279 --> 01:53:02,760
which I think is fascinating.

1753
01:53:03,439 --> 01:53:08,560
Speaker 1: Why do you think there's not as many deaths?

1754
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 2: Then?

1755
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:14,920
Speaker 1: Yes, because I agree that there's a lot of witnesses

1756
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:18,039
that say there's more than just Dilton and Eric, but like,

1757
01:53:18,279 --> 01:53:20,079
there's just not as many deaths to.

1758
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:27,399
Speaker 2: Prove that. I guess I think the death toll from

1759
01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:33,760
Columbine did not only apply to the massacre, right, And

1760
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:37,359
I think that you see this mounting death toll following

1761
01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:43,359
the event itself, which isn't it's not really acknowledged, it's

1762
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,960
it's basically for the most part, very much under acknowledged.

1763
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,680
And I think that's with this key witnesses and these

1764
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:54,159
related persons who all died after the shooting. And one

1765
01:53:54,159 --> 01:53:58,399
of them was the mother of a Columbine victim, yeah,

1766
01:53:58,399 --> 01:54:03,560
who allegedly killed herself, right, but yeah, she she ends

1767
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:06,079
up walking into a pawn shop and asked to see

1768
01:54:06,079 --> 01:54:09,680
a handgun and then blew her brands out right in

1769
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:12,640
the pawn shop. And it was June Karla June Hoe

1770
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:16,720
Caulter was her name. But yeah, just six months after

1771
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:20,720
her seventeen year old daughter and Anne Marie survived the

1772
01:54:21,199 --> 01:54:22,720
Columbine massacres.

1773
01:54:22,319 --> 01:54:25,279
Speaker 1: So very stream recently died too.

1774
01:54:26,079 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And they even claimed that what it

1775
01:54:31,039 --> 01:54:34,520
was due to, like they I think they claimed she

1776
01:54:34,680 --> 01:54:40,239
had died because of the Columbine massacre and died of

1777
01:54:40,319 --> 01:54:42,359
sepsis like twenty.

1778
01:54:42,159 --> 01:54:46,479
Speaker 1: Years twenty five, like literally six years later, last year

1779
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:48,199
she died and they're like, yeah, it's because of the

1780
01:54:48,279 --> 01:54:49,079
Columbine shooting.

1781
01:54:50,239 --> 01:54:54,199
Speaker 2: So we have another death attributed to Columbine. Yeah, twenty

1782
01:54:54,239 --> 01:54:57,680
five years later, basically, which is just insane to me.

1783
01:54:57,800 --> 01:55:02,880
But again, you have Robert Patterson, nineteen year old April

1784
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:06,880
twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, nine days after the massacre,

1785
01:55:07,399 --> 01:55:10,319
had spent time in jail, hangs himself at his home

1786
01:55:10,359 --> 01:55:13,920
in Wheatbridge, Colorado. His mom told investigators she thought he

1787
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:16,399
did it because he didn't want to go to jail again.

1788
01:55:17,239 --> 01:55:22,000
Then you have weeks after the massacre and Twine Johnson,

1789
01:55:22,279 --> 01:55:25,800
a close friend of the Shoals family, who was the

1790
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:30,199
black victim from the cafeteria who was shot to death

1791
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:34,359
in the parking lot apparently. And this Antoine Johnson was

1792
01:55:34,399 --> 01:55:37,079
shot to death in a parking lot on May of

1793
01:55:37,159 --> 01:55:40,960
nineteen ninety nine, and no charges were filed. Case was

1794
01:55:41,039 --> 01:55:45,239
left unsolved. Said that Johnson was helping the Shoals family

1795
01:55:45,279 --> 01:55:49,319
investigate the massacre and he simply quote new too much.

1796
01:55:49,359 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh man, they killed him.

1797
01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:56,880
Speaker 2: July fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Colorado Secretary of State Vicky

1798
01:55:56,960 --> 01:56:00,359
Buckley collapses and dies at age fifty one. She was

1799
01:56:00,359 --> 01:56:04,640
close to the Scholes family, the same family and was

1800
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:08,279
helping them find the truth about the Columbine massacre. So

1801
01:56:08,479 --> 01:56:11,520
I same day go ahead. No.

1802
01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:13,039
Speaker 1: I found it was really interesting. So I talked to

1803
01:56:13,039 --> 01:56:17,239
my friend, like I said, I have lots of friends

1804
01:56:17,239 --> 01:56:21,119
in the area that know people. So my one friend,

1805
01:56:21,359 --> 01:56:24,399
his brother was there. He was a freshman at Columbine

1806
01:56:24,439 --> 01:56:28,439
the day of the shooting, like the year right, but

1807
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:30,760
my friend was not. My friend was in elementary school,

1808
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:33,159
so he went years later. He actually lived in the

1809
01:56:33,199 --> 01:56:36,159
same neighborhood as the Shoals and was like, it's really weird.

1810
01:56:36,439 --> 01:56:38,479
All this guy, like I called him and I was like,

1811
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:41,319
tell me about Columbine, and he told me the official narrative.

1812
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:44,079
This The only reason I'm bringing this up is because

1813
01:56:44,119 --> 01:56:46,119
of what you're saying right now about Scholes family. Because

1814
01:56:46,119 --> 01:56:47,840
at the time he was like, yeah, the Scholes family,

1815
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:49,399
Like it was weird. They just like all of a

1816
01:56:49,439 --> 01:56:51,920
sudden like left, like they just moved away, and they

1817
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:54,039
just like stopped caring and nobody cared about like they

1818
01:56:54,079 --> 01:56:55,920
just like gave up. And I was like, that's weird

1819
01:56:55,960 --> 01:56:58,800
because like in a lot of the research that I did,

1820
01:56:58,920 --> 01:57:01,319
like it seemed like they were digging and he's like, no,

1821
01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:03,520
like they just moved away and they just stopped caring,

1822
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:05,399
and everyone gave them a really hard time because they

1823
01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:09,159
just stopped, like, they stopped talking about it. Nobody, they

1824
01:57:09,279 --> 01:57:11,119
never brought it up again. They didn't care about their

1825
01:57:11,159 --> 01:57:12,840
son that had died, and I was like, that's so

1826
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:15,239
weird that they would like not care about their son

1827
01:57:15,279 --> 01:57:18,640
that just tied at this Columbine shooting that was very

1828
01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:21,199
traumatic for them, and everything that I'm finding says that

1829
01:57:21,239 --> 01:57:24,119
they were really digging in and then you say.

1830
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:28,600
Speaker 2: This, I'm telling you it looks like bodies were dropping

1831
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:32,479
all around them. And at that point, what are you

1832
01:57:32,520 --> 01:57:35,920
going to do? You know, It's like maybe they cared

1833
01:57:35,960 --> 01:57:39,960
too much obviously, but at the same time, it's like,

1834
01:57:41,039 --> 01:57:43,239
is it worth dying for? I don't know.

1835
01:57:43,479 --> 01:57:46,760
Speaker 1: Six months after the mask they moved away.

1836
01:57:47,359 --> 01:57:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they saw the writing on the

1837
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:55,079
wall and and just basically said we need to, uh,

1838
01:57:55,239 --> 01:57:59,199
you know, remove ourselves from this and and probably provide

1839
01:57:59,239 --> 01:58:02,000
us much distance as possible between us and them, because

1840
01:58:02,560 --> 01:58:05,880
I mean, the same day that Vicky Buckley, the Secretary

1841
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:10,960
of State, dies July fourth, Jefferson County Sheriff was shot

1842
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,920
and killed or no, he shot and killed a man

1843
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,399
in Clement Park, which is where members of the trench

1844
01:58:16,439 --> 01:58:20,560
Coat Mafia were gathering having events leading up to Columbine

1845
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:24,640
and right next to it was right next to Columbine High.

1846
01:58:24,479 --> 01:58:27,399
Speaker 1: School, kind of connected. The Clement Park is kind of

1847
01:58:27,439 --> 01:58:29,760
like connected to Columbine exactly.

1848
01:58:30,359 --> 01:58:32,880
Speaker 2: And so I just thought it was interesting, Yeah, because

1849
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:35,239
they shoot and kill a man in Clement Park that

1850
01:58:35,399 --> 01:58:39,000
very same day and never released his identity. None of

1851
01:58:39,039 --> 01:58:41,399
the officials ever released the identity of the man who

1852
01:58:41,439 --> 01:58:43,760
was shot and killed in Clement Park that day, and

1853
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:46,760
that in itself is like, how is that possible? Yeah,

1854
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:50,439
but it was never documented. And so again we just

1855
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:53,640
have a random occurrence of a death happening the very

1856
01:58:53,680 --> 01:58:57,239
same day that the Secretary of State is found dead,

1857
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:02,159
and we have no evidence details on what actually happened.

1858
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:06,119
And then you have a key witness, Corey Hager. He

1859
01:59:06,159 --> 01:59:09,199
dies in a car crash at fifteen years old. His

1860
01:59:09,319 --> 01:59:12,920
sister told investigators he was at home having lunch, but

1861
01:59:13,079 --> 01:59:17,119
Hager was seen with deceased victim Stephen Kernow in the

1862
01:59:17,159 --> 01:59:21,000
cafeteria before the shooting broke out, but was never interviewed

1863
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:24,439
and then proceeded to die in July of nineteen ninety

1864
01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:28,119
nine in a car crash at fifteen years old. So

1865
01:59:29,720 --> 01:59:35,399
it looks like that again, it's like no one has

1866
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:38,960
any of the documentation other than he was hit struck

1867
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:43,760
in a car accident and was the only mortality. And yeah,

1868
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:47,279
so the lack of documentation from the Jefferson County Police

1869
01:59:47,279 --> 01:59:52,239
Department is extraordinary surrounding Columbine specifically, and most of the

1870
01:59:52,279 --> 01:59:57,840
Columbine report was never made public whatsoever, and especially all

1871
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:02,159
of the videotapes that they had acquired. It was very

1872
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:07,159
limited in what they actually provided publicly. And then it

1873
02:00:07,279 --> 02:00:11,279
was in two thousand. I forget which year, but it

1874
02:00:11,399 --> 02:00:14,239
was like less than it was less than ten years

1875
02:00:14,279 --> 02:00:17,319
ago when they I thought it was twenty seventeen, but

1876
02:00:17,359 --> 02:00:21,079
I can't recall now when they essentially made the decision

1877
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:24,800
internally to destroy the files because they didn't want to

1878
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:29,359
This was the justification. They didn't want to inspire future

1879
02:00:29,359 --> 02:00:33,359
school shooters after so they refused to make it public

1880
02:00:33,840 --> 02:00:39,479
and destroyed the tapes. All the parents were demanding be

1881
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:40,880
revealed and made public.

1882
02:00:41,359 --> 02:00:44,479
Speaker 1: So the victims' parents have been so outspoken about this,

1883
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:48,840
and then like Jeff co has botched this heavily.

1884
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:55,479
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, absolutely, And I honestly think, I don't know, what,

1885
02:00:55,479 --> 02:00:57,479
what do you think about a part two? Would you

1886
02:00:57,560 --> 02:01:00,279
be willing because we haven't even like, we're just now

1887
02:01:00,319 --> 02:01:02,000
getting to the good part, you know what I mean

1888
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:04,359
as far as much as that sounds terrible to say,

1889
02:01:04,399 --> 02:01:08,239
but as far as the most extraordinary smoking gun connections

1890
02:01:08,279 --> 02:01:11,840
to this case, we're just now getting there. And I

1891
02:01:11,880 --> 02:01:15,720
feel like, you know, we labored the point a bit

1892
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:20,520
just because I felt the federal involvement and military leadership

1893
02:01:20,600 --> 02:01:24,319
component and there's just too much and obviously discussing even

1894
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:27,560
even the actions of Dylan and Eric of the day,

1895
02:01:28,079 --> 02:01:32,359
which we got into most. I think is crucial to understand,

1896
02:01:33,239 --> 02:01:37,840
how just due to the lack of what looks to

1897
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:43,159
be corroborating evidence in terms of any reinforcing you know,

1898
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:47,960
credibility in terms of the the Yeah, just the movements

1899
02:01:48,039 --> 02:01:51,760
of Dylan and Eric throughout the school. Yeah, I think

1900
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:54,920
is important for everyone to realize that it's not something

1901
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:57,760
we can rely on and really bank on in terms

1902
02:01:57,800 --> 02:02:00,760
of reliability. But anywhere, Yeah, we'll have.

1903
02:02:00,760 --> 02:02:02,399
Speaker 1: To get back together because I know that you have

1904
02:02:02,439 --> 02:02:07,439
to go to Yeah, I know, I know. I can't

1905
02:02:07,479 --> 02:02:08,920
wait for you to tell me all these things because

1906
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:11,319
I feel like I did not hit everything that I

1907
02:02:11,359 --> 02:02:14,319
know that you're going to bring. I always enjoy talking

1908
02:02:14,319 --> 02:02:15,960
about it because I'm like, what did you find that

1909
02:02:16,039 --> 02:02:17,399
I didn't find? What did I find that you use?

1910
02:02:17,479 --> 02:02:22,239
Speaker 2: That's my favorite part. Yeah, it's the It's it's basically

1911
02:02:22,399 --> 02:02:26,000
sitting down at the table and and uh figuring out

1912
02:02:26,079 --> 02:02:30,000
which avenue that we each went down and provide our

1913
02:02:30,079 --> 02:02:34,520
our are our kind of uh uh. It's this is

1914
02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:37,239
what I love so much about podcasting though, because it

1915
02:02:37,359 --> 02:02:40,119
is like workshopping ideas in a way that that is

1916
02:02:40,199 --> 02:02:45,039
so intoxicating. Because our our minds work differently, and so

1917
02:02:45,319 --> 02:02:48,920
you're never typically going to follow the exact same path

1918
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:53,920
down an investigative rabbit hole and discover the you usually

1919
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:58,479
will find, you know, overlapping connections, but typically the way

1920
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:02,600
our minds work, yeah, we we will inevitably go down

1921
02:03:02,840 --> 02:03:07,000
a separate route and then convene and discover that so

1922
02:03:07,159 --> 02:03:12,960
much of this helps reinforce overwrite other just avenues of

1923
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:17,279
information that have been very much under just not underscored

1924
02:03:17,319 --> 02:03:21,079
in a proper way. But yeah, so I would say

1925
02:03:21,399 --> 02:03:25,520
we could probably start with the possibility of additional gunmen. Yeah,

1926
02:03:25,640 --> 02:03:29,640
in the various statements on the potential reality of that

1927
02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:33,439
happening on the scene. Maybe we could start there in

1928
02:03:33,479 --> 02:03:35,840
part two if you're interested, so just let me know.

1929
02:03:36,079 --> 02:03:39,279
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Awesome, okay, hell yeah, I'll link all

1930
02:03:39,279 --> 02:03:40,239
your things in the show notes.

1931
02:03:40,239 --> 02:03:40,479
Speaker 2: Again.

1932
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for coming back. I can't like

1933
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:47,760
another conversation in the future. But of course until next week,

1934
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:51,640
my friends, Stay Skeptical, and we will see you all then. Hey, friends.

1935
02:03:51,680 --> 02:03:54,359
Speaker 15: The rabbit Hole is an independent podcast, written, posted, and

1936
02:03:54,399 --> 02:03:57,199
produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsay for

1937
02:03:57,239 --> 02:03:59,640
research and writing. If you love the podcast, please leave

1938
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:01,880
us a five start rating and review wherever you're listening.

1939
02:04:02,159 --> 02:04:05,039
Follow us on social media at rabbit dot Hole podcast,

1940
02:04:05,159 --> 02:04:07,960
and visit our website at Stay Skeptical dot com for

1941
02:04:08,039 --> 02:04:08,680
everything else.