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Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK. 23 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:33.560 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 24 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:37.719 and infamous killers in true crime history, True Murder, with 25 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.239 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 26 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:53.079 Good evening. This is your host Dan Zepanski, for the 27 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.959 program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime 28 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:00.239 history and the authors that have written about them. On 29 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.480 the wild side of an obsessive relationship, from its ecrotic 30 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.200 beginning to its violent end, and the trials required to 31 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:11.400 clean up the mess. Gary Taylor, a former Houston Post reporter, 32 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:17.240 recounts his personal true life fatal attraction involvement in the 33 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:20.759 trail of violence that dog Texas attorney Katherine Mahaffey Shelton 34 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:25.280 for nearly three decades, prompting coverage by newspapers, magazines, Forty 35 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:29.599 eight Hours, American Justice, and even Oprah. The result is 36 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:35.039 a tooth grinding, genre bending tale that blends memoir with murder, mystery, 37 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:41.080 and legal procedural with psycho killer in an adventure odyssey 38 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:44.800 of self discovery that nearly cost him his life. The 39 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:48.120 book is luggaged by Kroger with my very special guest, 40 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:52.360 journalist and author, Gary Taylor. Welcome to the program, and 41 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.879 thank you for Greenna's interview Gary Taylor. 42 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.280 Well, thank you for your interest. I've been interviewed on 43 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:01.919 these events many times over the years. I only wrote 44 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.879 the book a couple of years ago, but it seems 45 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:07.560 like every time I've had an interview, I've learned something. 46 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:11.240 You always the questions caused me to reflect on things, 47 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.080 so I'm always happy to sit down with anybody and 48 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:14.800 talk about it. 49 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:19.360 Now you say that this occurred in your book, it's 50 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.000 in the late seventies, seventy nine eighty primarily in this 51 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:27.680 one very very eventful year of your life. Why just 52 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:29.759 to start off this, Why did you wait so long 53 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:31.599 to write the book? There was a lot of you, 54 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:33.000 like you say in the book, there's a lot of 55 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:37.159 people that always expressed interest in when you spun the tale. 56 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.039 Why did it take quite so long? Even though you 57 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.599 had those interviews you could have maybe capitalized. Why did 58 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:44.199 you wait so long to write the book? 59 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:49.840 Well, the primary reason was I was always too busy, 60 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:55.039 and I have been a working journalist all my life, 61 00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:00.840 and I spent most of the eighties and nineties as 62 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.719 a freelance writer. Had tons of things to do and 63 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:10.719 just sort of put it aside. It also took a 64 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:15.439 little bit of time for me to really appreciate the 65 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.000 kind of what kind of universal appeal there might be 66 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:22.439 in this story, even though even though it was an 67 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.079 option for movies a couple of times, I mean, the 68 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:32.000 events were during that period, but the it was it 69 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.959 was basically just something I knew I was gonna do eventually, 70 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.600 but I just never got around to doing it. And 71 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.079 it helped to have the perspective of time to sort 72 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.879 of look back on these events and write it as 73 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.240 a memoir. I think that's one of the one of 74 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:53.639 the things anymore anyway, is that nobody memoir that that 75 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.839 Frank McCourt sort of pioneered. So I thought it was 76 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.800 time to do it, and I did it, and I 77 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:02.319 had a chance, so I did it. 78 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:06.639 Yeah, really, you're You're the story really necessitated to do that. 79 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.720 You couldn't have a true crime book without it being 80 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.240 a memoir. It would have to be a memoir. So 81 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:13.560 it has to mix. The genre has to be mixed anyway, 82 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:14.959 and it's done a great. 83 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:15.240 Job with it. 84 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.839 Let's get to this, the beginning of your book and 85 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.279 the event that led up to all the other events. 86 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:30.480 What happened on January fifteen, nineteen seventy nine to an ethologist, 87 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.600 George Tedesco. What happened that day? What did police find 88 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:34.600 at the home? 89 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:41.079 George Tedesco's mangled body in the garage. He was a 90 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.800 Houston and a physiologist worked at the Saint Joseph's Hospital 91 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:52.079 in Houston, and the nurses had called the police and 92 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:56.279 he had not shown up for an operation the week before, 93 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.319 and this was on a Monday, and the police went 94 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.560 to his house and they found him in the garage 95 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:08.399 with his head beaten in and his car missing. And 96 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:14.000 they started to investigate the crime. And that investigation led 97 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:18.600 directly to the little lady that I later became involved 98 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:23.480 with and who became sort of notorious in Texas for 99 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.600 some of the events that have happened in her life. 100 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.600 Now, the person question is Katherine Mahaffey Shelton. Is that 101 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:32.279 her full name? 102 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:38.120 Well, at the time, she was just Katherine Mahaffey. She 103 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:42.439 married someone named Shelton later on, and that's what she's 104 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:48.040 been known as since about nineteen ninety something like that. 105 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:55.560 My portion of her experience happened in nineteen seventy nine 106 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.839 and nineteen eighty about y in in the aftermath of 107 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.800 the Tedesco murder when she was under investigation as UH 108 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:11.360 possibly having having instituted that that that case remains an 109 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:18.399 unsolved murder in Houston and it's still under investigation, although 110 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:24.240 obviously not very actively under investigation. UH. She had UH 111 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.199 her connection to him. She had She had lived with 112 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.279 him for about three months back in the nineteen seventy 113 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:37.519 eight and then sued him for divorce, claiming he was 114 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:41.600 her common law husband, and the divorce case was actually 115 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.120 supposed to go to trial the day that they found 116 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:49.040 his body, she went down and filed for his estate, 117 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:52.600 claiming then to be his widow. And at the time 118 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.279 she was a criminal defense lawyer in Houston, so it 119 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.079 was a it was a a pretty interesting, uh set 120 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:06.680 of circumstances. You had an attractive female, blonde, fem fatale 121 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:13.519 type lawyer who also had a reputation for being kind 122 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:15.759 of rough on men anyway, because there were some other 123 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.879 boyfriends in her background that had had some problems. But 124 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.079 all of a sudden, she was the central figure and 125 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:27.800 a murder investigation and involved a doctor, and yet she 126 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.600 was stepping out and claiming he to get his estate 127 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.559 as his widow. And that's when I met her. 128 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:38.639 Now, you were working for the Houston Post at that 129 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:39.759 time as a court reporter. 130 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.480 I was a courthouse reporter. He was a courthouse reporter 131 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:47.519 for the Houston Post daily newspaper. It was the morning 132 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:51.799 paper in town. I covered Harris County criminal courts. So 133 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.240 she was down there in the courthouse all the time, 134 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:56.519 And of course I was well aware of what was 135 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.759 going on in her background, and she had had sort 136 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.960 of become the center of attention there in the courthouse 137 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:09.440 with with the investigation and all that. But I had 138 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:11.360 a lot of lot of trouble going on in my 139 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.519 own life at the time, and which which sort of 140 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.639 was probably the main reason why we even got together. 141 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.159 I was very vulnerable at that time, and we just 142 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:24.840 sort of we met at a party and we hit 143 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:29.320 it off, and and I knew, I knew there was 144 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:34.720 some danger there, but I was I was kind of 145 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:36.919 willing to get a little adventure in my life, and 146 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.840 I got a whole boatload of it. 147 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:42.799 Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit here to 148 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:47.759 this crime. Now, it sure looks like, to anybody's looking 149 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:52.039 at this, very obvious that Katherine Mahaffey is your prime suspect. 150 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:55.000 Did the police viewer as a suspect. You say, there's 151 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:59.600 this divorce, this messy common law disputable divorce, and you 152 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:03.240 say you were aware of her being a court reporter. 153 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.480 Tell us what the police initially thought, whether they could 154 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.600 make the charge or not, what they initially thought based 155 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:12.840 on her behavior and all the evidence they found. And 156 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:18.159 then also, yeah, and then also just tell us how 157 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:23.879 it was that you were not you know, you've given 158 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:25.279 a little bit of an explanation. You say you were 159 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.000 vulnerable and she came and you met at a certain 160 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.679 time in your life. But tell us what her actual 161 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.440 reputation was before this event actually happened. What was she 162 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.679 known for? Give us a little bit more of her 163 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.919 character as you knew it before you met her. And 164 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:45.200 tell us also about the police and what they suspected 165 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:47.639 based on the evidence that they saw at that crime 166 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:49.799 scene and her other behavior. 167 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:55.200 Okay, now, she was not what she would call a 168 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.679 well known lawyer in town. She was just kind of 169 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.200 parading out. This is back in a time though, when 170 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:07.879 females practicing law in the criminal courthouse were really few 171 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:12.399 and far between. So she she she really stood out 172 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:17.200 back then. And uh, she was an attractive blonde. She 173 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:21.000 had a smart mouth, she was witty, she was intelligent, 174 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:24.320 She had her law degree, she had a uh she 175 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.320 claimed she had a degree in medieval French literature as well. 176 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:32.799 She was articulate, well read. And she had been in 177 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:38.159 this relationship with this uh with this doctor and split up, 178 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.559 and the period leading up to their divorce had been 179 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:46.720 a real stormy affair where they were tape recording each other. 180 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:49.720 The the d A had a had a wealth of 181 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:54.840 tape recordings that the doctor had made throughout that period, 182 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:58.759 lots of threats. Uh he had he had been the 183 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:02.519 victim of some burglar uh in which uh a lot 184 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.960 of his Uh. He had pre Columbian art work. He 185 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.000 was from Argentina, and he'd brought pre Columbian artwork with 186 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:11.559 him and and they had uh those had been stolen. 187 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.320 And he'd go to the police and blame her, and 188 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:19.879 she'd u s say it was community property, or she'd 189 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.440 say she didn't have anything to do with it. Uh. 190 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:25.320 She was an attorney and knew how to work the system. 191 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.360 So UH when when he when he died, she was 192 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.919 definitely the the top suspect. But UH, trying to get 193 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.799 to the bottom of it was another story. And as 194 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.360 as far as I as far as me at the time, 195 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:43.159 I was uh, I had probably hit about rock bottom 196 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.440 as as you could go. I had uh uh my uh, 197 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.120 my second marriage had come to an end. Uh. I 198 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.600 was sleeping on a on my editor's couch, and I 199 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:57.320 was driving a two hundred dollar car, and I was 200 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:02.600 carrying my uh mind dirty laundry around and I'm in 201 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.639 a brown paper grocery sack at the time. And that's 202 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.639 where that's where the name of the book, I'm Lucky 203 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:17.799 to Take ros. Yeah, So that's uh, that's pretty much 204 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:23.840 the police had had turned the case over to uh 205 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:31.720 the District Attorney's office special investigative Unit, which investigates crimes 206 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:37.559 that are complicated or crimes where the suspect is considered 207 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.039 maybe too smart for the regular cops. And that's what 208 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.639 was called the Special Crimes Unit of the Harris County 209 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.799 District Attorney's Office. And they're the ones who had the 210 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:51.519 file on her when when I met her, which occurred 211 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:56.840 about eight or nine months after George Tedesco was was murdered. 212 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.639 Now you talk about those teams that they had recorded 213 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:05.039 each other, and you describe in a book that he 214 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.879 had good reason or he believed he had good reason 215 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:12.919 to record her. Now, was there any talk of violence 216 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:17.240 from her part on those telephone recordings? Was there anything? 217 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.000 Did she say anything violent? Did he yet get anything 218 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.279 that he was looking for by taping her? Did he 219 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.399 actually get or was she too smart being a lawyer 220 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.240 to commit herself on those tapes? 221 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.759 Now that the tapes are really cagey and there I listened. 222 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:36.480 I've only listened to one of them, and that was 223 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.120 one that was offered to me by the District Attorney's 224 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.879 office at one point back then. I actually, I uh, 225 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:49.120 I made a transcript of it, and it was kind 226 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:53.320 of fascinating to listen to the way that her the 227 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:57.240 way that her voice changes throughout the call. And this 228 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.919 was a tape that was made this respecter, was made 229 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.360 maybe the day he was murdered. And I do recreate 230 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.639 that tape in the first chapter of My Boy, and 231 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.879 it's it's it's a fairly interesting conversation about them, her 232 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.879 trying to get her telling him that she wants to 233 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:21.600 meet him that night, and that uh, he he's he's 234 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:26.559 uh demanding that she returned his stuff that he claims 235 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:30.600 was stolen from her, and she talks about having seen 236 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.960 him go in his condo with with another woman, and 237 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:40.360 it goes through all the emotions of pity, guilt, and 238 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:48.399 then just outright anger and uh it ends with them 239 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.120 agreeing to meet. And then the next thing that happened 240 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:52.480 is his body was found. 241 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:58.960 Right now, what did the police do with this this uh, 242 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:00.919 you know, this having is that they have? How did 243 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:05.440 they How did the police proceed with Katherine mahaffey and 244 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.039 and this murder case? How did they proceed? 245 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:13.679 Well? Uh, back then, well, of course anytime I guess 246 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:17.120 she was and she was alleging to have been the 247 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:20.519 common law wy finny. Fact that she was in the 248 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:28.240 place was probably not evidentiary. They they basically started looking 249 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:31.840 for his uh, his car, which they eventually found he 250 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.399 was driving, and he drove a Corvette at the time, 251 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.480 the Silvie Corvette, and they they found it in a 252 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.799 parking lot somewhere in Houston, and they staked it out 253 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.279 for a few days, and actually there was a kind 254 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:49.279 of a uh, kind of a comic scene where somebody 255 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.200 tried to steal it from the parking lot and turned 256 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.200 out that he wasn't. They thought they had had somebody there, 257 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:02.600 but they basically just just ran into uh nothing. I 258 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.440 mean they they they were just a dead a dead case, 259 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:10.759 and uh she was uh sitting pretty. And the the 260 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.480 investigation took on two prongs at the same time because 261 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:22.440 when she when she uh filed for his estate, uh 262 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.039 claiming to be his widow, his parents uh came up 263 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.480 to defend his estate, and they hired a private investigators 264 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.759 and they were they were dogging her tracks too. 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So 300 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.960 there was another part of the mystery there. 301 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.079 There was a telling part of your book as well. 302 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.400 You talk about what it just some of the conversations 303 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.440 are really telling to to to her actual sarcastic, callous character, 304 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.240 and you talk about Catherine laughing about the rewards set 305 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.279 up by the parents of George Tedesco. Tell us a 306 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:43.759 little bit about that, because I was very telling. 307 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.599 Well, once I got into her, into her life, or 308 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.960 once our once our our lives sort of uh combined, 309 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.079 she was was kind of like a drinking buddy, and 310 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.160 or a drinking buddy with with benefits, you might say. 311 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.319 And uh. She she had a way had a dark 312 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.759 sense of humor. But she talked continually about the Tedesco 313 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:12.319 murder and had made fun of a lot of things 314 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.039 about about that and about other things that had happened 315 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.119 to men in her life. Uh, I know that one 316 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.839 of her lap she said that one of her law 317 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:25.759 partners had called the Tedesco uh the hotline the private 318 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.319 eyes had set up for tips on it, and uh 319 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.200 and talked in the voice of a Greek sea captain 320 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:38.079 and tried to uh to to give him some some 321 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:44.920 some some tips some kind. And she thought that was 322 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.519 she thought that was really funny. And she talked about 323 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.319 how the lawyers had a lot of the lawyers had 324 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:54.480 gone in with her and ripped off the condo, taking 325 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:58.880 the pre Columbian artwork and hauled it out. She went 326 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:03.640 in and uh got in an argument with Tedesco's neighbor. 327 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.680 This was the day after he died, and uh and 328 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:09.880 she went into the broke into the condo to get 329 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.160 get some of the other property out of there, and 330 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:17.759 claiming to be claiming in his community property. And there 331 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:19.839 was all that kind of stuff going on back then 332 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:20.400 as well. 333 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.759 What did what did she was sorry? What did the 334 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.000 what did captain say to that neighbor? According to the neighbor. 335 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:32.880 She uh, oh, yeah, well she she told the neighbor 336 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.039 that to uh forget what she'd seen and if she 337 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.279 didn't uh uh, she would uh she would be sorry. 338 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.000 And I, uh, I've forgotten the exact words. Uh, I've 339 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.680 kind of you know, I re recreated that in one 340 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.880 of the chapters, in the early chapters of the book. 341 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.279 That testimony from the uh if they came out in 342 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.960 a deposition and uh in the uh the estate trial, 343 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:11.240 and she she went to the Later on, in a 344 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.240 magazine interview, she said that she the police interviewed her 345 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.440 and tried to sweat her down the day of the 346 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:21.640 the day of the murder, and as she was getting 347 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.200 ready to leave, one of the homicide cops looked at 348 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:28.079 her and said did you love him? And her her 349 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.000 comment to the magazine writer H was I guess he 350 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.240 expected me to break down crying and confess yes, and 351 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:40.160 I killed him too. But she just told him no 352 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:41.119 and walked away. 353 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.039 Yeah, yeah, it's up. 354 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.559 She she liked the confrontations. 355 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:52.640 Sure, absolutely. Now there was a ten million dollar lawsuit 356 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.559 by the parents, and this goes on before any kind 357 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:58.640 of court case. So tell us a little bit about that, 358 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.039 and that's another fascinating aspect of this story. But tell 359 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.240 us a little bit about that, what what happens from 360 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:09.440 that and how does that really help the eventual trial 361 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.799 or the eventual discovery of certain information? How does how 362 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.359 does that work? 363 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:22.480 Well? Uh, Actually, that case was was filed about a 364 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:27.559 year after the murder, and it it it was it 365 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:31.079 was really a slim filing. It just was basically a 366 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:37.640 a a simple three or four page document that alleged 367 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.319 that that Catherine, in concert with this guy named Tommy Bell, 368 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:49.279 had had conspired to h to perform the murder of 369 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:56.680 George Tedesco, and the family wanted damages paid. And eventually 370 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.880 that suit was just dismissed for lack of for for 371 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.319 lack of prosecution because about a week after that suit 372 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.279 was filed. H I was shot and so the the 373 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:13.400 spotlight kind of turned onto my case, which turned out 374 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:19.359 to be an attempted murder case. But the the my 375 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.759 thoughts on it always were that they that they really 376 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.880 didn't have much in that case, and that they filed 377 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.759 that just to make sure they had a case to pursue. 378 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.680 And her comment when she told the papers when it 379 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:39.000 was filed, her comment was, anybody can file a lawsuit, 380 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.200 and in this case, I think anybody has. 381 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:49.440 Interesting Now, how does how did a pregnancy or the 382 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:53.160 possibility of a pregnancy play into this? And was Katherine 383 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:54.279 Mahalfe he ever pregnant? 384 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.000 I don't. I don't think she ever was, but she 385 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:04.880 had uh uh pre false pregnancies or or pregnancies and 386 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:09.039 abortions were kind of a recurring theme in her relationship 387 00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:14.920 with with men. She had claimed that Tedesco had forced 388 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.640 her to have an abortion and that there was never 389 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.279 any any proof that she'd even had an abortion or 390 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.519 that she'd even been pregnant earlier, and this came out 391 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:31.359 in in the in the estate case, there was an 392 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.440 assistant there was a deputy sheriff here in the town 393 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.400 who had had a fling with her and she later 394 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.200 she later told me about him, but her he he 395 00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:49.519 had he had helped her sell some some of the 396 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:54.079 booty from the Tedesco condo, I think a sword or something, 397 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.599 and they had an affair and she had claimed she 398 00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:01.400 was pregnant and she wanted money for him abortion and 399 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.960 he didn't give it to her, so she told his 400 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:09.119 wife and UH the guy got uh got divorced over it. 401 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:11.799