Speaker 1: Who's radio.
Speaker 2: It's Night Side with Dan Ray I WBZ Koston's Radio.
Speaker 3: Well, this Sunday, I think everyone knows. We're going to
Speaker 3: have our clocks go back theoretically at two AM on
Speaker 3: Sunday morning, which means Son is going to be dropping
Speaker 3: below the horizon a little earlier. Next week. It'll be
Speaker 3: dark around four thirty beginning next Sunday Sunday evening. We're
Speaker 3: going to be talking in just a moment, doctor Charles Eisler.
Speaker 3: He's the chair of the Division of Sleep and Circadian
Speaker 3: Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital, also the director of
Speaker 3: the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. But
Speaker 3: before we do that, it's going to take a moment
Speaker 3: and invite people to start calling now at six, one, seven, nine, three, one,
Speaker 3: ten thirty, And if you happen to be calling number ten,
Speaker 3: you're going to win two tickets to see Celtic Thunder
Speaker 3: at the Premier Theater at Foxwoods on November seventh. Set
Speaker 3: off on a musical journey with the Irish music sensations.
Speaker 3: Celtic Thunder Live Complete the show, Complete show info and
Speaker 3: tickets are available at Foxwoods dot com. Now we have
Speaker 3: given away three pairs of tickets already, will give away
Speaker 3: a pair of tickets tonight, as I have said each night,
Speaker 3: if you know you're gonna go and you will even
Speaker 3: use them, great, but please don't take them and not
Speaker 3: use them. And we'll have one more peer tomorrow night.
Speaker 3: And what's gonna happen is that Dan the producer is
Speaker 3: simply going to answer the line pretty quickly. Call a one,
Speaker 3: call a two, call a four, call a six, caller seven,
Speaker 3: and if you're lucky, caller number ten. This you don't
Speaker 3: have to give your identification until he says caller ten,
Speaker 3: and hang right on the line six one, seven, nine, three,
Speaker 3: one ten thirty tenth caller, we'll win two tickets to
Speaker 3: see Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater at Foxwoods on
Speaker 3: November seventh, a week from tonight, set off on a
Speaker 3: musical journey with the Irish music sensations Celtic Thunder Live.
Speaker 3: Complete show info and tickets available at Foxwoods dot com.
Speaker 3: Now while Dan takes care of that and finds caller
Speaker 3: number ten for us, we just got call and number ten,
Speaker 3: so we have a winter tonight. You can stop calling.
Speaker 3: We have our call and number ten we're gonna go
Speaker 3: to call and number one this hour, doctor Charles Seisler,
Speaker 3: Doctor Sisler, Welcome to Night's Side. How are you, sir?
Speaker 4: Fine? How are you Dan?
Speaker 3: I'm doing just great now. You you have to have
Speaker 3: a big business card because you're in the chair of
Speaker 3: the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at Brigham and
Speaker 3: Women's Hospital and also director of the Division of Sleep
Speaker 3: Medicine at Harvard Medical School. I always get confused. I
Speaker 3: assume that in the summertime we're Daylight Savings time, and
Speaker 3: then in the winter it's Eastern Standard Time, or do
Speaker 3: I have it backwards?
Speaker 4: You absolutely correct. Yeah, You've got it correct.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's great. So we're going to have a big event.
Speaker 3: Actually it's it's a theoretical event. People will go to
Speaker 3: bed whenever they want on Saturday night or Sunday, and
Speaker 3: we get an extra hour sleep. Everybody remembers fall back,
Speaker 3: spring forward or spring forward fall back, whichever. But this
Speaker 3: still was a lot of controversy about this because I
Speaker 3: guess a lot of people are impacted by this. Is
Speaker 3: it the circadian rhythms that we all have within ourselves
Speaker 3: that is most impacted, that that's the cause of concern.
Speaker 4: Here that is the cause of concern, and in fact,
Speaker 4: the impact is greatest in the spring, when we lose
Speaker 4: an hour of sleep and try to shift our circadian
Speaker 4: rhythms to an earlier hour. And that acute change in
Speaker 4: the spring is associated with all sorts of problems, including
Speaker 4: an increased risk of heart attacks and increased risk in
Speaker 4: motor vehicle crashes. Now in the fall, when we go
Speaker 4: back to the more reasonable time zone, the standard time
Speaker 4: let we actually our heart attacks decrease in the week
Speaker 4: following uh and when we get that extra sleep. But yes,
Speaker 4: you know where I stand uh and, And it is
Speaker 4: because even being on the western edge of a time zone,
Speaker 4: which brings you closer to the sort of situation that
Speaker 4: we'd be in if we were continuous daylight saving time,
Speaker 4: that actually is associated with increased risk of many diseases, cancer,
Speaker 4: heart disease, diabetes, and other chronic diseases, many of which
Speaker 4: are associated with the combination of disruption of our circadian
Speaker 4: flocks and also sleep deficiency.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have a lot to go over here.
Speaker 3: First of all, you mentioned we're.
Speaker 5: In the East East time zone Eastern stand we will
Speaker 5: be in the Eastern Standard time zone, and everybody knows
Speaker 5: we have what three time zones, well, eastern Central Mountain
Speaker 5: four time zones in the continental United States, and I
Speaker 5: guess that's part of Alaska and Hawaii that are in
Speaker 5: other other time zones. But when it hits noontime here
Speaker 5: in Boston, it's generally nine o'clock out in Los Angeles,
Speaker 5: and those of us who spend any time on the
Speaker 5: West Coast, it's a very different feel to the day,
Speaker 5: particularly on Sunday when we're watching football games at nine
Speaker 5: o'clock in the morning and you're used to watching the
Speaker 5: Patriots at noontime or one o'clock.
Speaker 3: And so let's talk about the whole concept of circadian rhythms.
Speaker 3: Can you put that in language that most of us
Speaker 3: non scientists can understand, right, So.
Speaker 4: I'll try to avoid geek line whiche. But we have
Speaker 4: an internal clock in the brain that is kind of
Speaker 4: the conductor of an orchestra of clocks throughout the body.
Speaker 4: And so this central clock receives light input through our
Speaker 4: eyes that keeps us in sync with the twenty four
Speaker 4: our day when we're exposed to light during the daytime
Speaker 4: and darkness at night, and that internal clock controls the
Speaker 4: timing of the release of hormones, the timing of daily
Speaker 4: variations and alertness and performance. And it sustains our ability
Speaker 4: to function well during the daytime and to sleep at night.
Speaker 4: It also regulates our digestion, our ability to process food,
Speaker 4: and our ability to breathe. Our heart, our cardiac system
Speaker 4: is regulated by it. Our kidneys are regulated by it.
Speaker 4: So all these different systems in each organ. More than
Speaker 4: half of the genes in that organ are regulated by
Speaker 4: the circadian clock. And it's a different set of genes
Speaker 4: in each organ because it's organ specific as to what's
Speaker 4: important to have that organ function well. Now, when those
Speaker 4: clocks are screwed up, and they get screwed up by
Speaker 4: exposure light at night and insufficient exposure to light during
Speaker 4: the day. And there was just a paper that came
Speaker 4: out today as a matter of fact, in the proceedings
Speaker 4: of the National Academy of Sciences showing that the risk
Speaker 4: of cardio metabolic diseases, diseases of the heart, and diseases
Speaker 4: like diabetes and so on, as well as premature death
Speaker 4: are greatly increased. And we're talking about my more than
Speaker 4: fifty percent by exposure excessive exposure to light at night
Speaker 4: or insufficient exposure to light during the daytime, and also
Speaker 4: by being exposed to light that shifts are circading rhythms
Speaker 4: to a later or too much of an earlier hour.
Speaker 4: So in order to optimize our health, it's best to
Speaker 4: get exposure to light during the daytime and sleep in
Speaker 4: the dark at night. I mean. The great thing is
Speaker 4: these are easily modifiable risk factors and not much was
Speaker 4: known about them previously. So you know, people can get
Speaker 4: if they're you know, if they can't have shades or whatever,
Speaker 4: if there's light coming in from the outside, you can
Speaker 4: get ice, shave eyemasks to at night, and you know,
Speaker 4: go out and take a walk during the daytime and
Speaker 4: that will all help keep your Cicadian rooms in sync. Okay,
Speaker 4: let me take a break because sleepy.
Speaker 3: I just need to take a quick commercial break. I
Speaker 3: want to hold the thought then we get back. I
Speaker 3: want to I don't want to challenge you, that's for sure,
Speaker 3: but I want to challenge the idea of because when
Speaker 3: you think about it, the amount of sunlight that we
Speaker 3: receive is going to be the same in a twenty
Speaker 3: four hour cycle, whether we're in daylight savings time or
Speaker 3: Eastern Standard time. There is that one day where we
Speaker 3: get a little an hour's extra sleep, and then there's
Speaker 3: the one day in the spring where we lose an
Speaker 3: hour's worth of sleep. But I'm really interested because you're
Speaker 3: teaching me a lot here and hopefully a lot of
Speaker 3: people are listening and learning a lot too. I know
Speaker 3: that that we have body clocks, but I never understood
Speaker 3: as because you explained them so well that there's a
Speaker 3: bunch of different body clocks for each organ and they
Speaker 3: and they interrelate. So I want to get to that.
Speaker 3: But I want to come back and talk about the
Speaker 3: amount of daylight per day because it really doesn't change,
Speaker 3: you know, except for those two days on the end
Speaker 3: of the cycle. We'll get back to all of that
Speaker 3: if you want to talk with doctor Zeisler. And again,
Speaker 3: there are a lot of you out there I know
Speaker 3: who are impacted at this time of year by there's
Speaker 3: a certain disorder when when we lose daylight during the daytime,
Speaker 3: and it affects different people differently. Feel free to join
Speaker 3: our conversation. UH six one seven two ten thirty six
Speaker 3: one seven nine ten thirty back with doctor Charles Zeisler.
Speaker 3: He's the chair of the Division of Sleep in Circadian
Speaker 3: Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital, also the Director of
Speaker 3: Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Back on Nightside right
Speaker 3: after this.
Speaker 2: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 2: night Side Studios on WBZ the News Radio.
Speaker 3: My guest is doctor Charles Zizzler. Zizler, Chair of the
Speaker 3: Division of Sleeping Circadian Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital,
Speaker 3: Director of the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 3: Doctor Zeesler, let me pose this question, and this is
Speaker 3: going to sound like a really simplistic question, but it's
Speaker 3: one that I have thought about, and that is the
Speaker 3: amount of daylight that we receive here in the Northern
Speaker 3: Hemisphere and in the Boston area doesn't really change. It
Speaker 3: just it's we have more daylight in the morning and
Speaker 3: less in the afternoon, So the amount of daylight doesn't change.
Speaker 3: The number of hours of light diminishes all the way
Speaker 3: up until about December twentieth, and then it starts to
Speaker 3: fill up that during the summer months, we have daylight
Speaker 3: from five o'clock in the morning until eight thirty at night,
Speaker 3: and we're talking about fifteen and a half hours of
Speaker 3: daylight and conversely, in the wintertime we have probably fifteen
Speaker 3: hours or so of darkness. Why does this make such
Speaker 3: an impact over the time of day we take in
Speaker 3: that sunlight? I assume it has something to do with
Speaker 3: our habits of sleeping and working nine to five am.
Speaker 3: I right or wrong on that?
Speaker 4: You are right, Dan, And that's the very student observation
Speaker 4: that you're making. And so to really understand why the
Speaker 4: timing of that light is important, it's critical to realize
Speaker 4: that we are internal clocks have a cycle length that
Speaker 4: is not exactly twenty four hours, and they have to
Speaker 4: be reset every day. Most people, three out of four people,
Speaker 4: the cycle length is longer than twenty four hours. And
Speaker 4: it can be and it can be, you know, half
Speaker 4: an hour longer, quarter of an hour longer. It's everybody,
Speaker 4: and it's determined by our genetics, and it's slightly different
Speaker 4: than every person. But in three quarters of people, it's
Speaker 4: longer than twenty four hours, and that means that morning
Speaker 4: light exposure is most important for resetting our internal biological clock,
Speaker 4: our brain's circadian clock. And the problem with permanent daylight
Speaker 4: savings time is that in Boston, out of three hundred
Speaker 4: and sixty five days a year. Let's say you have
Speaker 4: to get up at six o'clock in the morning in
Speaker 4: order to start work or school at seven That means
Speaker 4: you'd be waking up in the dark on two hundred
Speaker 4: and thirty nine of those three hundred and sixty five
Speaker 4: days per year, So the vast majority of the days
Speaker 4: you would be in the dark. And even at seven am,
Speaker 4: when you'd be starting school or work and have already
Speaker 4: taken the bus to get there, driven the car to
Speaker 4: get there, done whatever, you would still be in the
Speaker 4: dark at seven am on one hundred and forty eight
Speaker 4: days of the three hundred and sixty five days. And
Speaker 4: that's because you know, we call it daylight savings time.
Speaker 4: But you know, Congress can do a lot of things.
Speaker 4: But just as you point out, they can't protect sunshine.
Speaker 4: The number of hours at sunshine is set by you know,
Speaker 4: geological actors. So they're not saving sunshine. They're just moving us.
Speaker 4: They're moving us to a different time zone. And daylight
Speaker 4: saving time is actually mid Atlantic time. Yes, so what
Speaker 4: it would be doing would be taking California and putting
Speaker 4: California on mountain time year round, taking Colorado and putting
Speaker 4: Colorado on Central Standard time year around, taking Chicago and
Speaker 4: putting it on Eastern Standard time year round, and taking
Speaker 4: Boston and putting us on mid Atlantic time, so it
Speaker 4: would require us to wake up an hour earlier every
Speaker 4: day relative to the solar day. And that's why every
Speaker 4: time this has been tried, the Russians tried it abandoned
Speaker 4: after three We tried it in the United States in
Speaker 4: the seventies during the you know, when there was a crisis, right,
Speaker 4: and we tried it during World War Two because there was.
Speaker 4: And every time it's been tried it has been rejected
Speaker 4: because you know, when you're going for two hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty nine days a year waking up in the dark
Speaker 4: and starting school or work one hundred and fifty days
Speaker 4: a year in the dark, people are like, who did
Speaker 4: this to us? What are you doing? Who thought this
Speaker 4: was a good idea?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting if I could just pick
Speaker 3: up a couple of points you talked about the Russians. Russia,
Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken, has actually about ten or eleven
Speaker 3: time zone. It's the widest country in the world to
Speaker 3: the east of Lavostok. So I don't know what if
Speaker 3: their experience is exactly contiguous to watch. Obviously we have
Speaker 3: Hawaii and.
Speaker 4: Well they went to the whole the whole shebang went
Speaker 4: to permanent daylight saving time.
Speaker 3: Yeah they oh, they went that way.
Speaker 4: Okay, right, they went that way. They did you know
Speaker 4: what what Rubio calls the Sunshine Protection Act. Okay, and
Speaker 4: it didn't work. It hasn't worked anywhere that it's been tried,
Speaker 4: because when people you know, it's kind of odd that
Speaker 4: we do daylight saving time in the summer because if
Speaker 4: they're already the sun, you know, is setting way later.
Speaker 4: And even when I was a kid, I was wonder,
Speaker 4: you know, okay, the sun's going down at seven thirty,
Speaker 4: and now we're going to make it go down at
Speaker 4: eight thirty.
Speaker 3: So why we I always thought that it had to
Speaker 3: do with Here's what I thought it had to do
Speaker 3: with it. I thought that the push in the spring
Speaker 3: was so that kids little league in soccer games could
Speaker 3: go a little bit later, because obviously we don't hit
Speaker 3: our peak, you know, our latest sunset is it until
Speaker 3: sometime in late June. But with you know, soccer program
Speaker 3: and getting kids out to exercise after school, and then
Speaker 3: I know that Farmers had had a big influence in
Speaker 3: this because yeah, they were getting up in the dark,
Speaker 3: and I forget how they took what position they took,
Speaker 3: but I thought that the farm belt had, yeah, a
Speaker 3: bigger influence.
Speaker 4: All these things are myths because the farmers don't really
Speaker 4: like I mean, their animals don't change. Okay, But it's
Speaker 4: really the golf industry that is pushing because they you know,
Speaker 4: they calculate how many more tea times they could get in.
Speaker 4: It's a nineteen billion dollar industry in the United States,
Speaker 4: so they're always trying to push to have, you know,
Speaker 4: the the number of hours after five PM where somebody
Speaker 4: might be able to run through a round of golf.
Speaker 4: Oh gotcha, even if it's even if it means that
Speaker 4: the sun doesn't set till nine thirty.
Speaker 3: So when I was talking about spring soccer in Little League,
Speaker 3: it's really the golfers or the driving pardon the punt,
Speaker 3: the driving factor here. Uh, we got to take a
Speaker 3: quick break. I got some calls on the other side
Speaker 3: who I'm sure would love to talk with you. Would
Speaker 3: you be willing to take a couple of calls on
Speaker 3: the other side of the I I'd love to Okay, great, Uh,
Speaker 3: it's he really explains this well. Doctor Charles Zizler, chair
Speaker 3: of the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at Brigham
Speaker 3: and bring him in Women's Hospital here in Boston and
Speaker 3: director of the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 3: We are going to get to phone calls, Harvey and
Speaker 3: Kevin and if you'd like to talk with doctor Zeesler
Speaker 3: six six one seven, we'll trying to get a few
Speaker 3: of you in here. Uh and ought. It isn't often
Speaker 3: you get to talk to someone who has this depth
Speaker 3: of experience in this subject. If you have an interest
Speaker 3: in it. We are coming right back on Nightside.
Speaker 2: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's
Speaker 2: news Radio.
Speaker 3: Joined delighted to be joined by doctor Charles Ziesler. He's
Speaker 3: the chair of the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders
Speaker 3: at Brigham and Women's Hospital, director the Division of Sleep
Speaker 3: Medicine and Harvard Medical School. We're talking about the big
Speaker 3: chains that will take place, as it does every fall,
Speaker 3: when we leave daylight Savings time and go back to
Speaker 3: Eastern Standard time, when we all will get an extra
Speaker 3: hour of sleep this Saturday night Sunday morning, which sounds great,
Speaker 3: but doctor seesel was explaining there's a lot of subsequent
Speaker 3: impact here which is not necessarily healthy for our circadian
Speaker 3: rhythms and by extension, healthy for us. Doctor seesel let's
Speaker 3: get some phone calls. If that's okay with you, let's go.
Speaker 3: We'll start off in Cambridge. Harvey is in Cambridge. Harvey, welcome,
Speaker 3: You are first up this hour and nightside welcome, sir.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is a not the usual kind of topic
Speaker 6: I would call in on, but I.
Speaker 3: Want to identify yourself so that people know who this is. Harvey.
Speaker 6: I'm a civil liberties and clinical defense lawyer and author
Speaker 6: who lives in Cambridge and has a libertarian political tendencies.
Speaker 3: At and a great and a dear friend, Harvey Silverglade
Speaker 3: and Harvey, I owe you a phone call and a
Speaker 3: matter we won't discuss, but I hope you're doing well.
Speaker 3: You sound great. You're on with the doctor Zasler, go
Speaker 3: right ahead.
Speaker 6: My question is this My understanding is that it would
Speaker 6: take a vote of Congress to abolish the switching from
Speaker 6: daylight savings to Eastern standard. They're all kinds of lobbyists
Speaker 6: to lobby for, you know, everything from money for local
Speaker 6: roads to god knows what why is it so difficult
Speaker 6: to get Congress to vote to abolish this? It's a
Speaker 6: wartime and aquarism, as I understand it, And why is
Speaker 6: it so difficult to get Congress to do something about this?
Speaker 4: Well, unfortunately, Attorney Silvergate, the Congress is trying to do
Speaker 4: the opposite. They're actually trying to force all Americans to
Speaker 4: wake up an hour earlier throughout the year by pushing
Speaker 4: all of our time zones eastward by one hour. That
Speaker 4: would the estimates that that would increase cancers by one
Speaker 4: hundred thousand cases per year, including five percent increase in
Speaker 4: breast cancer cases and a fifteen to thirty percent increase
Speaker 4: in uterine cancer, liver cancer, and some types of leukemia. So,
Speaker 4: but the golf lobby is really, you know, spending fortune
Speaker 4: to try to get and they actually a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago, on a voice vote, the Senate passed unanimously
Speaker 4: to to push us all one time zone eastward, but
Speaker 4: unfortunately the House decided to have hearings on it and
Speaker 4: did not pass it. But again it's been introduced again
Speaker 4: this year, So the golf lobbing.
Speaker 3: So, just so I understand what's in play here, The
Speaker 3: golf lobby would be pushing for that, and they are
Speaker 3: able to get it through the Senate on a voicevode.
Speaker 3: And if it hadn't been for the House, we would
Speaker 3: all be on Eastern we'd all be on daylight savings
Speaker 3: time throughout the.
Speaker 4: Year permanently, so that we would be essentially on mid
Speaker 4: Atlantic time because we'd be moved one time, we'd be
Speaker 4: on the extreme western edge of the time zone, which
Speaker 4: is the part of the time zone that is associated
Speaker 4: with the increased health risk. Right now, we're on the
Speaker 4: eastern side of the time zone of the Eastern time zone,
Speaker 4: so we're in a much safer place right now.
Speaker 3: What causes the increase in cancer incidence of cancer? I'm
Speaker 3: trying to figure what what is the correlation there. Obviously
Speaker 3: it has to do something on the sleep pattern, right.
Speaker 4: Well, it has to do with our with the abnormal
Speaker 4: timing of exposure light. So our internal clock depends on
Speaker 4: morning light to be reset, and and when we're going
Speaker 4: to school and driving work in the dark, and then
Speaker 4: we're inside offices and not exposed to outdoor light, our
Speaker 4: internal clock drifts to a later hour. It making it
Speaker 4: harder to get up, harder to fall asleep. We're exposed
Speaker 4: to a lot of artificial light that suppresses the release
Speaker 4: of the hormone melatonin, which is a hormone that uh
Speaker 4: that that stops the spread of cancer. So yeah, so
Speaker 4: it's it's a it's a that's the leading mechanism. So
Speaker 4: night shift work, for example, the World Health Organization has
Speaker 4: labeled a probable car synogen because of the exposure to
Speaker 4: light that night shift workers, you know, that they're to
Speaker 4: which they're exposed.
Speaker 3: So this would mean and Harvey jump in here if
Speaker 3: you like that. This would seem to mean to me
Speaker 3: that centuries ago, centuries ago, when people were living without
Speaker 3: reference to any sort of artificial clock corrections, that they
Speaker 3: probably were not they maybe they weren't living as long
Speaker 3: as we are because of you know, outdoor conditions, but
Speaker 3: they probably weren't dying of things like cancer as much
Speaker 3: as maybe our populations are now. Is that a logical conclusion?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know about what was happening three or
Speaker 4: four centuries ago, but but it is. You know, in
Speaker 4: the present day, individuals who are exposed to more light
Speaker 4: at night do have greatly increased risk of cardiac diseases
Speaker 4: and premature death as well as diabetes and other things.
Speaker 3: But would wouldn't that follow? Wouldn't that follow logically?
Speaker 2: On?
Speaker 3: Doctor? That you know that that people who lived in
Speaker 3: our continent, let us say, you know, five hundred years ago,
Speaker 3: who didn't have internal light and and probably went to
Speaker 3: sleep when the sun went down and got up when
Speaker 3: the sun rose, and had maximum exposures. I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to deal logically here. Now, maybe they died more of
Speaker 3: of of animal attacks or or than than we do.
Speaker 4: But even even a century ago, uh, school kids where
Speaker 4: there was much less artificial light exposure, school kids got
Speaker 4: two hours more sleep per night, and they generally awoke
Speaker 4: without an alarm clock. You know, I mean ninety percent.
Speaker 4: How many are getting up with that an alarm clock today?
Speaker 3: Right? Not many? Harvey jump in here if you have
Speaker 3: a follow up.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, it's the science of it isn't my seal,
Speaker 6: But the politics of it is really befuddling to me
Speaker 6: that it would be so simple to deal with this.
Speaker 3: Well, the doctor suggesting it's a nineteen billion dollar industry
Speaker 3: at the golf lobby, their representatives on K Street are
Speaker 3: instrumental here, That's what he's saying, and I believe him.
Speaker 6: Well, I feel victimized because I don't play golf.
Speaker 3: That's a logical conclusion as well. Counselor Harvey is always
Speaker 3: thank you so much. Okay, good night, Harvey. I'll talk
Speaker 3: to you tomorrow. Thank you much, looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: You sound great. Let me go to Kevin and Cambridge. Kevin,
Speaker 3: you were next on, Charles Zeesler, go right ahead.
Speaker 7: Uh yeah, I have a different Circadian question. I have
Speaker 7: heard folks extol the healthy virtues of cultures that practice
Speaker 7: siesta and split their sleep, sleeping part of it during
Speaker 7: the heat of the day.
Speaker 6: What do you think of that?
Speaker 4: Well, that we seem to have evolved with the ability
Speaker 4: to have both uh split sleep at night as well
Speaker 4: as a siesta splitting our waking hours during the daytime.
Speaker 4: We're a little different than most other mammals in that
Speaker 4: we don't take little cat naps and rat naps throughout
Speaker 4: the night. But we but we and we have instead
Speaker 4: a major episode of sleep at night and a major
Speaker 4: episode of wakefulness during the daytime. But in time's gone by,
Speaker 4: before the advent of electric light, particularly during the the
Speaker 4: you know, the long winter nights in places like England,
Speaker 4: people would go they actually it was so commonly referred
Speaker 4: to when theres a historian who wrote a book about
Speaker 4: this called A Day's Close. But people would talk about
Speaker 4: first sleep and second sleep. First sleep when the sun set,
Speaker 4: they would go to sleep, they have deep sleep at
Speaker 4: the beginning of the night, and they'd get up for
Speaker 4: around midnight or in the middle of their nightly sleep
Speaker 4: episode walk around some people, you know. He speculates that
Speaker 4: most children were conceived probably during that interval between the
Speaker 4: first sleep and second sleep, and then the second sleep,
Speaker 4: or the sweet sleep as it was sometimes referred to,
Speaker 4: was the stages of sleep that were probably greatly enriched
Speaker 4: in rapid eye movement sleep which is associated with vivid dreaming,
Speaker 4: and that would occur in the second part of the
Speaker 4: night before dawn, and then the people would get up
Speaker 4: similarly like as you pointed out, in many cultures, especially
Speaker 4: during the summer, in the siesta cultures, they would take
Speaker 4: a mid afternoon siesta. And that is a perfectly reasonable way.
Speaker 4: And our system seems to be able to adapt to
Speaker 4: sleeping about six hours at night, I or six hours
Speaker 4: at night and then a couple of hours in the
Speaker 4: middle of the afternoon, and we can function very well
Speaker 4: on that kind of schedule.
Speaker 7: And does that have an effect on things like cancer rates.
Speaker 7: I mean, it seems like you would get have less
Speaker 7: skin cancer if you're sleeping during the hottest part of
Speaker 7: the day.
Speaker 3: But unless you're sleep.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that. I don't know about any
Speaker 4: studies that have investigated that that particular issue. But you know,
Speaker 4: we in our society, most people, even in San Diego,
Speaker 4: people get so little exposure to outdoor light, less than
Speaker 4: thirty minutes a day that the real you know, the
Speaker 4: real health hazard is insufficient exposure to light that is
Speaker 4: both on our skin and certainly on our eyes for
Speaker 4: resetting our circaded lithms, and those who get insufficient light
Speaker 4: during the day are at increased risk of premature death
Speaker 4: and cardio metabholic diseases.
Speaker 7: Although those of us who are fair skin, they're always
Speaker 7: being told to stay out of the sun.
Speaker 4: That's correct about more recent studies have shown that the
Speaker 4: while skin cancer is a hazard, a particuliarly for those
Speaker 4: with fair skin, if you make sure that you don't
Speaker 4: get excessive exposure to sunlight, especially in the middle of
Speaker 4: the day, that what is more hazardous is not getting
Speaker 4: exposed to light, which has the impact on health is
Speaker 4: equivalent to smoking. That was discovered by studying people who
Speaker 4: were so meticulous about putting sunscreen on and avoiding exposure
Speaker 4: to light. And to the researchers surprise, there all cause
Speaker 4: mortality risk was greatly increased the more successful they were
Speaker 4: at preventing exposure to light.
Speaker 7: So what would you recommend as the minimum amount of
Speaker 7: sunlight that we should get each day?
Speaker 4: Ideally somewhere in the half an hour to forty five
Speaker 4: minute range.
Speaker 6: I would say, so half.
Speaker 3: An hour to forty five minutes to be outdoors.
Speaker 4: In the sun, taking a walk, you know, walking the dog,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: And anything less than that is potentially dangerous long term,
Speaker 3: and anything more than that is potentially dangerous short term.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you know, if you if you're if you're careful,
Speaker 4: I don't think that being out in the sun more
Speaker 4: than that is necessarily dangerous. I mean, in other wise
Speaker 4: you can wear you know, clothing, so that the key
Speaker 4: thing is trying to avoid getting a sunburn.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, well that's a case of a lot of
Speaker 3: sun sunburns as a child, because that's just the way
Speaker 3: it was back in the day.
Speaker 4: Right, No, we can't, we can't. We can't. We can't
Speaker 4: undo the past, I know, we you know my father
Speaker 4: would slather oil on us to concentrate the sunlight.
Speaker 3: So yes, yes, I had that experience and it ended
Speaker 3: up with with sun blisters.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I know, I know.
Speaker 7: Is that only a direct sun or is that just
Speaker 7: being outside when the sun is up?
Speaker 4: Well, being outside is good, but if you're you know,
Speaker 4: if you're if you're not exposed to the sunlight. So
Speaker 4: first of all, when you're outside, your your eyes are
Speaker 4: going to be exposed to reflected light, and the light
Speaker 4: outdoors is much much much brighter. That's why you know,
Speaker 4: if you have you know, for those of you who
Speaker 4: take pictures, you know, each time you changed the what
Speaker 4: used to be called the f stop or you know whatever,
Speaker 4: it's like a tenfold difference in light intensity. So inside
Speaker 4: light is measured in a unit called locks, which is
Speaker 4: the amount of light to which you would be exposed
Speaker 4: holding a single candle a meter away from you, So
Speaker 4: one candle, when you're in a reasonably lit room, you
Speaker 4: are exposed to about one hundred, maybe one hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty blocks of light the moment you step outside, even
Speaker 4: just after dawn or just before dusk, it's over ten
Speaker 4: thousand loucks, and in the middle of the day it's
Speaker 4: over one hundred thousand loucks. So we, you know, we
Speaker 4: don't realize because when the light is a thousand times brighter,
Speaker 4: we might only see it as being twice as bright.
Speaker 4: So we're not very good at really detecting quantitatively exactly
Speaker 4: how much brighter it is. But it's much brighter outside,
Speaker 4: so that even if you're getting reflected light, it's sending
Speaker 4: a strong signal to your brain that it's daytime.
Speaker 3: Great, gentlemen, I have to pause here, Kevin, great questions.
Speaker 3: Thank you for the questions. I have one other calling.
Speaker 3: We're going to get to her on the other side
Speaker 3: of the break, and we'll wrap it up with Dr
Speaker 3: Charles Zizler, Brigham and Women's and the Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 3: This has been I think a really interesting hour and
Speaker 3: a much more detailed and instructive than I would have anticipated.
Speaker 3: Tina and Marlborough, we're going to get to you right
Speaker 3: after the break. Stay with us here on Nightside.
Speaker 2: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 2: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 3: We are talking about daylight savings time Eastern Standard time
Speaker 3: with doctor Charles Zizler Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard
Speaker 3: Medical School.
Speaker 4: Let me go to.
Speaker 3: Tina in Marlborough. Tina, gonna get you in here real quickly.
Speaker 1: Go right ahead, Tina, So I might I have a
Speaker 1: question for the doctor that might be a little bit
Speaker 1: longer than quickly, but we'll do what we can.
Speaker 3: Yes, I you go ahead.
Speaker 8: I am listening to everything you're saying.
Speaker 1: I just have a question. I feel like I'm doomed
Speaker 1: because I have a very messed up circadian rhythm. My
Speaker 1: friends call me upside down. I've been a night owl
Speaker 1: since the day I was born, and since we've hit
Speaker 1: the pandemic, people working from home, et cetera, it's gotten
Speaker 1: very much worse for me. I just I am up
Speaker 1: at night, I have energy, and I sleep all the morning.
Speaker 1: Is there any hope? Is there anything I can do
Speaker 1: to switch that cycle?
Speaker 4: If there is, I love this question, and thank you
Speaker 4: for calling I'm a night owl myself, but I love
Speaker 4: you for that. The key thing is we have a
Speaker 4: mixed marriage at home. My wife's an early morning type,
Speaker 4: and so she likes to get up at four o'clock
Speaker 4: in the morning, and you know, so the the key
Speaker 4: thing is consistency in the timing of when you're sleeping
Speaker 4: and waking, and and many people don't realize that having
Speaker 4: a consistent bedtime and a consistent wake time is just
Speaker 4: as important as the duration of sleep. And more and
Speaker 4: more studies are finding that optimizing your bedtime and wake
Speaker 4: time and the consistency of those and many night owls
Speaker 4: end up having to end up early for this, that
Speaker 4: and the other, and so they have very irregular sleep
Speaker 4: wake patterns, which is probably the reason why the study
Speaker 4: that was published today showed that people who either are
Speaker 4: extreme evening types or extreme morning types are at increased
Speaker 4: risk of earlier death. So what can you do? Increasing
Speaker 4: your exposure to light in the morning, So if you
Speaker 4: can have natural light coming in in the morning, that
Speaker 4: will help you to get up in the morning. And
Speaker 4: decreasing your exposure to light in the evening. We did
Speaker 4: a study a few years ago in which we showed
Speaker 4: that reading from a what we called a light emitting
Speaker 4: e book, which is a fancy name for saying a
Speaker 4: tablet or an iPad or a phone or whatever in
Speaker 4: the evening instead of a printed book actually suppresses the
Speaker 4: release of the sleep, promoting hormone melatonin and shifts, and
Speaker 4: shifts are biological clock to a much later hour, making
Speaker 4: it more difficult for us to fall asleep in the
Speaker 4: evening and more difficult to wake up in the morning.
Speaker 3: So, folks, on that point, I hate to end this
Speaker 3: conversation because it's been fascinating. Tina. I hope you've got
Speaker 3: some good guidance there, but I'm flat up against the
Speaker 3: ten o'clock news. I so wish you had called earlier.
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. I'd like to have doctor
Speaker 3: Zeesler back maybe if he's willing to. He's a great
Speaker 3: radio guest. Doctor Zeesler, You've been fabulous.
Speaker 4: And thank you.
Speaker 3: Every academic do I feel that way about. But you
Speaker 3: have been fabulous tonight, and I really thank you for
Speaker 3: all the time you've given us.
Speaker 4: Well. Thank you, Dan and I enjoyed our discussion.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Doctor Childs. Zeisler, Chair of the
Speaker 3: Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital,
Speaker 3: Director of the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 3: I'd love to have you back, if you would be
Speaker 3: willing to consider that at some point over the winter.
Speaker 3: I love to do it again.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'd love to too.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, doctor, I so appreciate it. What
Speaker 3: a great guest. When we come back, if you're on
Speaker 3: the line and you'd like to stay there, we can
Speaker 3: take a couple of you on phone, but you're called
Speaker 3: in late and then we're going to switch topics right
Speaker 3: after the ten o'clock news, So if you want to
Speaker 3: talk about your sleep rhythms, come on, bring it on.
Speaker 3: Stay right there. Betty and Pat stay there and others
Speaker 3: joined the conversation back on Nightside right after the ten
Speaker 3: o'clock news.
Speaker 2: I'm Deli Fleasy Boston Video.
Speaker 3: Again. Want to thank my guest last hour, doctor Charles Ziesler,
Speaker 3: Chair of the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at
Speaker 3: Brigham and Women's Hospital and director of the Division of
Speaker 3: Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. And we talked about
Speaker 3: what's going to be happening this weekend, which happens late
Speaker 3: October early November every year when the clocks are set
Speaker 3: back an hour, fall back an hour, so sometime in
Speaker 3: theory early Sunday morning, it will lose an hour of time,
Speaker 3: but we will pick up an hour's worth of sleep,
Speaker 3: so it's spring forward fall back. Some of the listeners
Speaker 3: who listen to doctor Zeesler have held on through the news,
Speaker 3: We're going to get to them. If you'd like to
Speaker 3: comment about your problems with sleep at this time of year,
Speaker 3: if it is amplified or perhaps improved moved when we
Speaker 3: change our clocks as we will this Sunday morning, feel
Speaker 3: free to join the conversation. Let me go start it
Speaker 3: off with Betty is in the boat. Betty, you are
Speaker 3: next up, one nightsack. Go right ahead, Betty.
Speaker 8: How are you tonight, Dan, I'm.
Speaker 3: Good, Betty. I'm sorry that you didn't get a chance
Speaker 3: to talk with doctor Zezler, but you just got in
Speaker 3: a little late, so but go ahead. Love to know
Speaker 3: about your sleep pattern. You you live a very interesting life.
Speaker 3: You live on a boat in Boston Harbor.
Speaker 8: That's correct. And excuse me. I have a very unique
Speaker 8: situation that I wanted to talk to him about that.
Speaker 7: I have.
Speaker 8: A genetic disease called the twenty one HYDROXYLESED deficiency which
Speaker 8: does not permit me to go to sleep. Really, I
Speaker 8: can go anywhere from four to eight days and stay awake.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 8: And that my friends don't understand the fact that once
Speaker 8: I go to sleep, I'm not talking to you because
Speaker 8: I want my sleep, and that medication doesn't always work,
Speaker 8: because sometimes if I'm taking something for sleep and will
Speaker 8: convert it to speed and then I'm really in trouble
Speaker 8: and i can't sleep. And I wanted to know if
Speaker 8: he had any suggestions. I'm such a bizarre illness. Only
Speaker 8: one percent of the people in the world have this disease,
Speaker 8: and it's prominent in Naoshkenazi's youth population.
Speaker 3: Does does that mean? And again, Betty, you're drifting in
Speaker 3: out of me with this phone, with this own connection.
Speaker 3: When you say one percent of people in the world,
Speaker 3: does that mean also one percent of people in the
Speaker 3: United States?
Speaker 8: Yes, the entirety, that would mean.
Speaker 3: That would mean about three point two million people. That's
Speaker 3: a lot of people.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I've never before like Tina before me, she said,
Speaker 8: you know, she's nocturnal. She stays, she's a person who sleeps.
Speaker 8: I am a person that Right now, it's ten o'clock,
Speaker 8: I'm tired, and if I take sleeping medicine, I won't
Speaker 8: go to sleep till seven o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3: Now, I'm assuming that you have talked to other doctors
Speaker 3: about this, and you're receiving medical care and attention for this. Correct.
Speaker 8: Oh, for years, I've been a mystery to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. What I would only say is that we hope
Speaker 3: to have doctor Zeezler on again. If you wanted to
Speaker 3: drop him a note. I can't tell you whether he
Speaker 3: would respond to you. But he was a really interesting
Speaker 3: interview and someone who was really able to explain, and
Speaker 3: he listened to what people said. I was very impressed
Speaker 3: with him, as I guess, so if you drop him
Speaker 3: a note, yes.
Speaker 8: I was very impressed with him also. And my problem
Speaker 8: is with the change of clops I just my body
Speaker 8: just goes into whack mode. Sorry to say that. And
Speaker 8: I don't sleep.
Speaker 3: It's a medical term. I mean, it's a technical medical
Speaker 3: term that you're employed. Wow, so you can actually stay awake.
Speaker 3: You're telling me four to eight days without sleep?
Speaker 8: Correct?
Speaker 3: Man? You should be like in the Special Forces. And
Speaker 3: I mean I'm serious. I mean that would be a
Speaker 3: tremendous talent to have. But boy, I can only tell
Speaker 3: you that if you want to hold on. My producer,
Speaker 3: Dan has a copy of our rundown. Dan, you could
Speaker 3: dictate to to Betty his position as chair of the
Speaker 3: Division of Sleep and sir Katie and disorders that bring
Speaker 3: him to Women's hospital. And I'm sure that that if
Speaker 3: you wrote him a note or left him a call,
Speaker 3: I suspect he'd be interested in talking to you.
Speaker 8: I mean, seriously, I thank you, and I thank you
Speaker 8: for my pink tie, my pink shirt.
Speaker 3: Okay, it got delivered. That's good. Well, I hope you'll
Speaker 3: wear it all right, Betty hold on uh. And and Dean,
Speaker 3: my producer tonight, will give you his his title and
Speaker 3: which portion of bring him to Women's he's associated with.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure if you call or drop a note
Speaker 3: uh and remind him that you didn't get a chance
Speaker 3: to speak with him. But I think he'll be fascinated
Speaker 3: by your situation, and I'm sure he will reach back
Speaker 3: to you. I can't promise you that, but I'm virtually
Speaker 3: certain that he will reach back to you because he
Speaker 3: seems to be a real jumper.
Speaker 8: So it's interesting that when I go to a doctor
Speaker 8: and I say, this is what I have to go?
Speaker 2: What is this?
Speaker 8: It's a sufficiency and I have to sit there and
Speaker 8: give them the breakdown of this, And Howard.
Speaker 3: I suspect, I don't suspect you'll have to give this
Speaker 3: gentleman a breakdown. And also I want Dan to give
Speaker 3: you the correct spelling of his last name. It's it's
Speaker 3: c Z E I s I e R. So make
Speaker 3: sure that Dan, Betty has the spelling uh and the
Speaker 3: name of the Division of Brigham and Women so she
Speaker 3: can track him down. Okay, And if you have problems,
Speaker 3: thank you. Also give Betty my my direct phone number, Dan,
Speaker 3: so if you have problems, I can try to reach
Speaker 3: out for you.
Speaker 6: Okay, Thanks, thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, do you take the call? Dan? Go ahead?
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Let me go to Pat in Weymouth. Pat, you are
Speaker 3: next on Nightside. Welcome. We're talking about sleep disorders and
Speaker 3: sleeping and more importantly setting the clocks back this Saturday
Speaker 3: night Sunday morning. What do you what do you think?
Speaker 8: Hi? Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
Speaker 6: Pat.
Speaker 8: I have a situation that I think has been addressed
Speaker 8: with the previous caller. And then I guess it was
Speaker 8: Tina who also called. I am definitely a night howl.
Speaker 8: I prefer the nighttime over the daytime. It's not unusual
Speaker 8: at all. In fact, it's what I do each night
Speaker 8: is I can go to sleep around two thirty three
Speaker 8: o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3: Well, that's okay. We'll keep you company every night till midnight.
Speaker 3: I promise you.
Speaker 8: I know, I know, I absolutely know that, because you
Speaker 8: know I'm up and I enjoy it. I find things
Speaker 8: to do, whatever it is, and then I do try
Speaker 8: to get eight hours of sleep. So I'm setting my
Speaker 8: alarm for like about eleven o'clock in the morning, and
Speaker 8: I have room darkening shades.
Speaker 6: And how long?
Speaker 3: How long have you lived with that pattern? If I
Speaker 3: could ask how long I would.
Speaker 8: Say, I would say that it's pretty much my whole life.
Speaker 8: Except now I've been retired for about thirteen years. And
Speaker 8: when I was working, I was living in Weymouth. I
Speaker 8: had to work in Wallfam and I had to be
Speaker 8: there at seven, So I was getting up at about
Speaker 8: four or four thirty and then going, you know, so
Speaker 8: I was going to bed. It was opposite from what
Speaker 8: I really preferred.
Speaker 3: When I was working mornings in television from nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: oh god, nineteen ninety five until two thousand and seven,
Speaker 3: I was on those same roads at that hour of
Speaker 3: the morning. I was four am to noon shift, the
Speaker 3: night shift for many many years. But I've been able
Speaker 3: to adapt my sleep pattern. There was a lot of
Speaker 3: people I can remember when I was younger, I would
Speaker 3: sleep until ten ten thirty on a Saturday or Sunday morning.
Speaker 3: But now as you get older, I think it's a
Speaker 3: little bit more difficult to sleep that length of time.
Speaker 8: But I don't know. I am no. I have no
Speaker 8: problem going to sleep, no problem at all when I
Speaker 8: go to bed, no problem at all.
Speaker 3: And then got your body on it. You got your
Speaker 3: body in a cycle, and you keep that cycle. And
Speaker 3: I assume you keep the cycle every day of the week.
Speaker 3: It's the same every day, ansis during.
Speaker 6: The weekends, okay, every day of the week.
Speaker 8: And that's what I also caught the end of somebody's
Speaker 8: conversation was the continuity of that might be a factor
Speaker 8: exactly what you just said as opposed to premature deaths.
Speaker 8: If I keep that pattern, because that's my preferred pattern,
Speaker 8: and I can get up and you know, I get
Speaker 8: about eight hours sleep and that's about it, and I
Speaker 8: don't have to set an alarm. That's about the time
Speaker 8: that I generally wake up what my body apparently needs.
Speaker 8: And I get up and I do things, and you know,
Speaker 8: I'm an active person. I am outside when I am awake,
Speaker 8: and so I was just curious about I very.
Speaker 3: Really by the way, use an alarm. I know I
Speaker 3: have to be up because they have to be somewhere
Speaker 3: for an employment. But most mornings I wake up, and
Speaker 3: when I wake up and it's a little early, I'll
Speaker 3: look at the clock and if it's five thirty and
Speaker 3: I know the gym isn't even open until six, I'll
Speaker 3: go back to sleep for an hour and I'll say that, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is going to be an early gym day. Get
Speaker 3: it out of the way. And basically, I adjust the
Speaker 3: way to what my body wants me to do. And
Speaker 3: it's worked pretty well for me, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: so I'm I'm not going to change it. I know,
Speaker 3: I know, but I'll tell you this when I finished.
Speaker 3: When I finished the show at midnight, and as you
Speaker 3: probably know, I do what we call night side postgame.
Speaker 3: I do a hit on Facebook at nightside with Dan
Speaker 3: Ray and I don't know if you ever caught that,
Speaker 3: but I do about ten minutes with a group of
Speaker 3: people and kind of go over the show and what
Speaker 3: I liked, what I didn't like about the show, and
Speaker 3: then it takes me a little while. I just can't
Speaker 3: go right to bed at twelve twenty. I mean I
Speaker 3: have to kind of, you know, relax little bit. Sometimes
Speaker 3: I'll just do a crossword puzzle or try to do
Speaker 3: a crossword puzzle, and that'll put me to sleep, or
Speaker 3: I'll try to read a little bit and that can
Speaker 3: put me to sleep. So I was interested that doctor
Speaker 3: Disease look talked about how that it's better to read
Speaker 3: from a book, you know, on the printed page, than
Speaker 3: it is to try to read from a tablet. And
Speaker 3: I think a lot of that has to do with
Speaker 3: some of the electronics.
Speaker 8: The Yeah, oh, I'd rather read a book, definitely, right.
Speaker 8: And also and I don't want to keep down the
Speaker 8: line too long. When it comes to making appointments, I
Speaker 8: always try to schedule it. I want to clock to
Speaker 8: a clock something like that in the afternoon because I
Speaker 8: want to control. You know. There are times I can't
Speaker 8: do that and I don't like it. I don't like it,
Speaker 8: but I don't do it often and I try to
Speaker 8: avoid it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I do the same thing, but I do
Speaker 3: the opposite. So in other words, if I if I
Speaker 3: have a doctor's appointment, I want to get it done early.
Speaker 3: I don't want to hang it over my hand during
Speaker 3: the day. It's a simple you know, give me eight thirty,
Speaker 3: give me nine o'clock. If I have to weigh in
Speaker 3: with awaken one eighty, whether I'm doing it remotely or
Speaker 3: doing it in person, nine point fifteen, uh, and then
Speaker 3: just get I don't want it to destroy the day.
Speaker 3: It's as simple as that.
Speaker 8: Out say, for me, it would destroy the day to
Speaker 8: get right.
Speaker 3: But but for me, I have to build my day.
Speaker 3: For me, the worst things are something in the middle
Speaker 3: of the day because I have to adjust when do
Speaker 3: I get to go to the gym. We're all different.
Speaker 3: We're all different, which is which is great. Pat. I
Speaker 3: wish you had had called earlier. We could have got you.
Speaker 8: Happens is a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people decide to call it a quarter of
Speaker 3: and a quarter of the hour. And most of the
Speaker 3: time we're having someone like you know, a physician. He's
Speaker 3: got to get up in the morning too, so we
Speaker 3: normally don't keep.
Speaker 8: Oh, I understand that.
Speaker 3: That's great. Well, Pat, thanks for calling. And if I
Speaker 3: have I talked with you, be our first time.
Speaker 8: It's pretty much well, I won't say it is the
Speaker 8: first time, but I haven't called in years.
Speaker 3: Well, come on, you're you're you're up listening, come on,
Speaker 3: help me out here. Okay. I always look at the
Speaker 3: different points of view and different voices. Whatever we're talking.
Speaker 8: I'll call you so much that you'll be sorry to
Speaker 8: hear from me.
Speaker 3: That's not that, that would never happen. Delightful, delightful, Thank you, pad,
Speaker 3: I appreciate you.
Speaker 8: Going all right, Well, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 6: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: You're very welcome. Okay, coming back, we're going to take
Speaker 3: a break. If you want to talk about sleep patterns,
Speaker 3: I will give you to the bottom of the ar
Speaker 3: if you want to get a call quickly in now,
Speaker 3: and if not, when I come back, I'm going to
Speaker 3: open up another conversation which I'm interested in, and that
Speaker 3: deals with the decision of Stopping Shop to close eight supermarkets.
Speaker 3: Stop and Shop is in what it used to be.
Speaker 3: It is now owned, I believe, by a multinational company,
Speaker 3: and I hate to see supermarkets go away because that
Speaker 3: obviously is going to cause a problem for the communities
Speaker 3: that are impacted. If you want to talk a little
Speaker 3: bit more about sleep, feel free. If not, we'll talk
Speaker 3: about the disappearing supermarkets which I don't and disappearing source,
Speaker 3: which I don't think is a good thing. We'll be
Speaker 3: back on Nightside right after this quick break