WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.720 Who's radio. 2 00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:06.919 It's Night Side with Dan Ray I WBZ Koston's Radio. 3 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.000 Well, this Sunday, I think everyone knows. We're going to 4 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.519 have our clocks go back theoretically at two AM on 5 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:19.359 Sunday morning, which means Son is going to be dropping 6 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.280 below the horizon a little earlier. Next week. It'll be 7 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:28.679 dark around four thirty beginning next Sunday Sunday evening. We're 8 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:31.320 going to be talking in just a moment, doctor Charles Eisler. 9 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:33.520 He's the chair of the Division of Sleep and Circadian 10 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.479 Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital, also the director of 11 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.280 the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. But 12 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:41.079 before we do that, it's going to take a moment 13 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.640 and invite people to start calling now at six, one, seven, nine, three, one, 14 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.600 ten thirty, And if you happen to be calling number ten, 15 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.039 you're going to win two tickets to see Celtic Thunder 16 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:56.439 at the Premier Theater at Foxwoods on November seventh. Set 17 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.840 off on a musical journey with the Irish music sensations. 18 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.560 Celtic Thunder Live Complete the show, Complete show info and 19 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:09.200 tickets are available at Foxwoods dot com. Now we have 20 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.159 given away three pairs of tickets already, will give away 21 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:14.480 a pair of tickets tonight, as I have said each night, 22 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.879 if you know you're gonna go and you will even 23 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.000 use them, great, but please don't take them and not 24 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:21.879 use them. And we'll have one more peer tomorrow night. 25 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:24.560 And what's gonna happen is that Dan the producer is 26 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:27.799 simply going to answer the line pretty quickly. Call a one, 27 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.319 call a two, call a four, call a six, caller seven, 28 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:32.680 and if you're lucky, caller number ten. This you don't 29 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.400 have to give your identification until he says caller ten, 30 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.599 and hang right on the line six one, seven, nine, three, 31 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:41.680 one ten thirty tenth caller, we'll win two tickets to 32 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:44.799 see Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater at Foxwoods on 33 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:47.519 November seventh, a week from tonight, set off on a 34 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.319 musical journey with the Irish music sensations Celtic Thunder Live. 35 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:56.000 Complete show info and tickets available at Foxwoods dot com. 36 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.439 Now while Dan takes care of that and finds caller 37 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:02.000 number ten for us, we just got call and number ten, 38 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:04.840 so we have a winter tonight. You can stop calling. 39 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:07.719 We have our call and number ten we're gonna go 40 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:11.520 to call and number one this hour, doctor Charles Seisler, 41 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.719 Doctor Sisler, Welcome to Night's Side. How are you, sir? 42 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:16.919 Fine? How are you Dan? 43 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.360 I'm doing just great now. You you have to have 44 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:22.240 a big business card because you're in the chair of 45 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.280 the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at Brigham and 46 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:27.800 Women's Hospital and also director of the Division of Sleep 47 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:32.360 Medicine at Harvard Medical School. I always get confused. I 48 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:37.800 assume that in the summertime we're Daylight Savings time, and 49 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:41.919 then in the winter it's Eastern Standard Time, or do 50 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.000 I have it backwards? 51 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:47.599 You absolutely correct. Yeah, You've got it correct. 52 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:53.639 Okay, that's great. So we're going to have a big event. 53 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.560 Actually it's it's a theoretical event. People will go to 54 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.879 bed whenever they want on Saturday night or Sunday, and 55 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:03.639 we get an extra hour sleep. Everybody remembers fall back, 56 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:06.960 spring forward or spring forward fall back, whichever. But this 57 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:11.479 still was a lot of controversy about this because I 58 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.840 guess a lot of people are impacted by this. Is 59 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:19.000 it the circadian rhythms that we all have within ourselves 60 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.520 that is most impacted, that that's the cause of concern. 61 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.319 Here that is the cause of concern, and in fact, 62 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:33.879 the impact is greatest in the spring, when we lose 63 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.080 an hour of sleep and try to shift our circadian 64 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:41.159 rhythms to an earlier hour. And that acute change in 65 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:45.479 the spring is associated with all sorts of problems, including 66 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:51.080 an increased risk of heart attacks and increased risk in 67 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.879 motor vehicle crashes. Now in the fall, when we go 68 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:59.520 back to the more reasonable time zone, the standard time 69 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.360 let we actually our heart attacks decrease in the week 70 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:14.919 following uh and when we get that extra sleep. But yes, 71 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.839 you know where I stand uh and, And it is 72 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:23.560 because even being on the western edge of a time zone, 73 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:29.360 which brings you closer to the sort of situation that 74 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:36.040 we'd be in if we were continuous daylight saving time, 75 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:41.560 that actually is associated with increased risk of many diseases, cancer, 76 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.040 heart disease, diabetes, and other chronic diseases, many of which 77 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:52.040 are associated with the combination of disruption of our circadian 78 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:56.759 flocks and also sleep deficiency. 79 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:59.680 Okay, so we have a lot to go over here. 80 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:01.959 First of all, you mentioned we're. 81 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:04.560 In the East East time zone Eastern stand we will 82 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.480 be in the Eastern Standard time zone, and everybody knows 83 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:13.480 we have what three time zones, well, eastern Central Mountain 84 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:18.079 four time zones in the continental United States, and I 85 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:20.160 guess that's part of Alaska and Hawaii that are in 86 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:24.600 other other time zones. But when it hits noontime here 87 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:28.120 in Boston, it's generally nine o'clock out in Los Angeles, 88 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.199 and those of us who spend any time on the 89 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.720 West Coast, it's a very different feel to the day, 90 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.439 particularly on Sunday when we're watching football games at nine 91 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:40.399 o'clock in the morning and you're used to watching the 92 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.480 Patriots at noontime or one o'clock. 93 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:49.600 And so let's talk about the whole concept of circadian rhythms. 94 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.560 Can you put that in language that most of us 95 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:58.240 non scientists can understand, right, So. 96 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.240 I'll try to avoid geek line whiche. But we have 97 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:08.759 an internal clock in the brain that is kind of 98 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:13.839 the conductor of an orchestra of clocks throughout the body. 99 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:19.879 And so this central clock receives light input through our 100 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.279 eyes that keeps us in sync with the twenty four 101 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.959 our day when we're exposed to light during the daytime 102 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:35.120 and darkness at night, and that internal clock controls the 103 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.680 timing of the release of hormones, the timing of daily 104 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:43.879 variations and alertness and performance. And it sustains our ability 105 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:50.160 to function well during the daytime and to sleep at night. 106 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:56.360 It also regulates our digestion, our ability to process food, 107 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:03.199 and our ability to breathe. Our heart, our cardiac system 108 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:06.160 is regulated by it. Our kidneys are regulated by it. 109 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:12.439 So all these different systems in each organ. More than 110 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:17.560 half of the genes in that organ are regulated by 111 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.319 the circadian clock. And it's a different set of genes 112 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.079 in each organ because it's organ specific as to what's 113 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:28.720 important to have that organ function well. Now, when those 114 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.120 clocks are screwed up, and they get screwed up by 115 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.639 exposure light at night and insufficient exposure to light during 116 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:40.680 the day. And there was just a paper that came 117 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.199 out today as a matter of fact, in the proceedings 118 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:48.079 of the National Academy of Sciences showing that the risk 119 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:54.240 of cardio metabolic diseases, diseases of the heart, and diseases 120 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:58.480 like diabetes and so on, as well as premature death 121 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:02.279 are greatly increased. And we're talking about my more than 122 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:07.079 fifty percent by exposure excessive exposure to light at night 123 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:13.240 or insufficient exposure to light during the daytime, and also 124 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:20.040 by being exposed to light that shifts are circading rhythms 125 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.560 to a later or too much of an earlier hour. 126 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:31.439 So in order to optimize our health, it's best to 127 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:37.360 get exposure to light during the daytime and sleep in 128 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.480 the dark at night. I mean. The great thing is 129 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:46.080 these are easily modifiable risk factors and not much was 130 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:51.440 known about them previously. So you know, people can get 131 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.519 if they're you know, if they can't have shades or whatever, 132 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.240 if there's light coming in from the outside, you can 133 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:06.000 get ice, shave eyemasks to at night, and you know, 134 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.159 go out and take a walk during the daytime and 135 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:12.879 that will all help keep your Cicadian rooms in sync. Okay, 136 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:15.240 let me take a break because sleepy. 137 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.360 I just need to take a quick commercial break. I 138 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:21.000 want to hold the thought then we get back. I 139 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:24.759 want to I don't want to challenge you, that's for sure, 140 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.519 but I want to challenge the idea of because when 141 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:32.799 you think about it, the amount of sunlight that we 142 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:38.919 receive is going to be the same in a twenty 143 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.840 four hour cycle, whether we're in daylight savings time or 144 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.399 Eastern Standard time. There is that one day where we 145 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:49.120 get a little an hour's extra sleep, and then there's 146 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.360 the one day in the spring where we lose an 147 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:56.000 hour's worth of sleep. But I'm really interested because you're 148 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.720 teaching me a lot here and hopefully a lot of 149 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:01.720 people are listening and learning a lot too. I know 150 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.759 that that we have body clocks, but I never understood 151 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.279 as because you explained them so well that there's a 152 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.559 bunch of different body clocks for each organ and they 153 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.960 and they interrelate. So I want to get to that. 154 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.039 But I want to come back and talk about the 155 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.399 amount of daylight per day because it really doesn't change, 156 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:24.799 you know, except for those two days on the end 157 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:26.360 of the cycle. We'll get back to all of that 158 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.840 if you want to talk with doctor Zeisler. And again, 159 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:31.279 there are a lot of you out there I know 160 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.799 who are impacted at this time of year by there's 161 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:40.759 a certain disorder when when we lose daylight during the daytime, 162 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.720 and it affects different people differently. Feel free to join 163 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:48.639 our conversation. UH six one seven two ten thirty six 164 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.679 one seven nine ten thirty back with doctor Charles Zeisler. 165 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.480 He's the chair of the Division of Sleep in Circadian 166 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.080 Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital, also the Director of 167 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.919 Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Back on Nightside right 168 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:02.360 after this. 169 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:08.080 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 170 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:11.320 night Side Studios on WBZ the News Radio. 171 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:17.480 My guest is doctor Charles Zizzler. Zizler, Chair of the 172 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.080 Division of Sleeping Circadian Disorders at Brigham and Women's Hospital, 173 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.840 Director of the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. 174 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.840 Doctor Zeesler, let me pose this question, and this is 175 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.879 going to sound like a really simplistic question, but it's 176 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.159 one that I have thought about, and that is the 177 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.480 amount of daylight that we receive here in the Northern 178 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:43.639 Hemisphere and in the Boston area doesn't really change. It 179 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.000 just it's we have more daylight in the morning and 180 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.120 less in the afternoon, So the amount of daylight doesn't change. 181 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:56.120 The number of hours of light diminishes all the way 182 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.000 up until about December twentieth, and then it starts to 183 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:03.240 fill up that during the summer months, we have daylight 184 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.320 from five o'clock in the morning until eight thirty at night, 185 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.759 and we're talking about fifteen and a half hours of 186 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:15.279 daylight and conversely, in the wintertime we have probably fifteen 187 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.919 hours or so of darkness. Why does this make such 188 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.159 an impact over the time of day we take in 189 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.080 that sunlight? I assume it has something to do with 190 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:31.320 our habits of sleeping and working nine to five am. 191 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:32.919 I right or wrong on that? 192 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:38.080 You are right, Dan, And that's the very student observation 193 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:47.759 that you're making. And so to really understand why the 194 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:52.120 timing of that light is important, it's critical to realize 195 00:12:52.320 --> 00:13:01.159 that we are internal clocks have a cycle length that 196 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:06.399 is not exactly twenty four hours, and they have to 197 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.600 be reset every day. Most people, three out of four people, 198 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:14.639 the cycle length is longer than twenty four hours. And 199 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.000 it can be and it can be, you know, half 200 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:23.399 an hour longer, quarter of an hour longer. It's everybody, 201 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.879 and it's determined by our genetics, and it's slightly different 202 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.720 than every person. But in three quarters of people, it's 203 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.399 longer than twenty four hours, and that means that morning 204 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:40.000 light exposure is most important for resetting our internal biological clock, 205 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:46.440 our brain's circadian clock. And the problem with permanent daylight 206 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:53.279 savings time is that in Boston, out of three hundred 207 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.320 and sixty five days a year. Let's say you have 208 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.879 to get up at six o'clock in the morning in 209 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:04.879 order to start work or school at seven That means 210 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.600 you'd be waking up in the dark on two hundred 211 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.200 and thirty nine of those three hundred and sixty five 212 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.200 days per year, So the vast majority of the days 213 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.720 you would be in the dark. And even at seven am, 214 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:27.279 when you'd be starting school or work and have already 215 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:30.799 taken the bus to get there, driven the car to 216 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.120 get there, done whatever, you would still be in the 217 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.519 dark at seven am on one hundred and forty eight 218 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:42.080 days of the three hundred and sixty five days. And 219 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.440 that's because you know, we call it daylight savings time. 220 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.039 But you know, Congress can do a lot of things. 221 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:53.559 But just as you point out, they can't protect sunshine. 222 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:59.000 The number of hours at sunshine is set by you know, 223 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:09.399 geological actors. So they're not saving sunshine. They're just moving us. 224 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.679 They're moving us to a different time zone. And daylight 225 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:19.720 saving time is actually mid Atlantic time. Yes, so what 226 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.919 it would be doing would be taking California and putting 227 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.080 California on mountain time year round, taking Colorado and putting 228 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.399 Colorado on Central Standard time year around, taking Chicago and 229 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.759 putting it on Eastern Standard time year round, and taking 230 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:42.000 Boston and putting us on mid Atlantic time, so it 231 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:48.279 would require us to wake up an hour earlier every 232 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:54.159 day relative to the solar day. And that's why every 233 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:59.279 time this has been tried, the Russians tried it abandoned 234 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.399 after three We tried it in the United States in 235 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:09.879 the seventies during the you know, when there was a crisis, right, 236 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:13.559 and we tried it during World War Two because there was. 237 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.399 And every time it's been tried it has been rejected 238 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.279 because you know, when you're going for two hundred and 239 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.039 thirty nine days a year waking up in the dark 240 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:31.080 and starting school or work one hundred and fifty days 241 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.519 a year in the dark, people are like, who did 242 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:37.799 this to us? What are you doing? Who thought this 243 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:38.639 was a good idea? 244 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.240 Well, you know, it's interesting if I could just pick 245 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.559 up a couple of points you talked about the Russians. Russia, 246 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.960 if I'm not mistaken, has actually about ten or eleven 247 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:52.559 time zone. It's the widest country in the world to 248 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.240 the east of Lavostok. So I don't know what if 249 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.919 their experience is exactly contiguous to watch. Obviously we have 250 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:00.720 Hawaii and. 251 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.960 Well they went to the whole the whole shebang went 252 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.720 to permanent daylight saving time. 253 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:08.480 Yeah they oh, they went that way. 254 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.799 Okay, right, they went that way. They did you know 255 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:16.039 what what Rubio calls the Sunshine Protection Act. Okay, and 256 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.480 it didn't work. It hasn't worked anywhere that it's been tried, 257 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:24.319 because when people you know, it's kind of odd that 258 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.799 we do daylight saving time in the summer because if 259 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.559 they're already the sun, you know, is setting way later. 260 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:31.279 And even when I was a kid, I was wonder, 261 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.000 you know, okay, the sun's going down at seven thirty, 262 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:36.319 and now we're going to make it go down at 263 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:36.880 eight thirty. 264 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:39.759 So why we I always thought that it had to 265 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:41.440 do with Here's what I thought it had to do 266 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.319 with it. I thought that the push in the spring 267 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.799 was so that kids little league in soccer games could 268 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.200 go a little bit later, because obviously we don't hit 269 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:55.279 our peak, you know, our latest sunset is it until 270 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.960 sometime in late June. But with you know, soccer program 271 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.400 and getting kids out to exercise after school, and then 272 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.880 I know that Farmers had had a big influence in 273 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.559 this because yeah, they were getting up in the dark, 274 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:13.319 and I forget how they took what position they took, 275 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:18.319 but I thought that the farm belt had, yeah, a 276 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.519 bigger influence. 277 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.359 All these things are myths because the farmers don't really 278 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:32.960 like I mean, their animals don't change. Okay, But it's 279 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.319 really the golf industry that is pushing because they you know, 280 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.440 they calculate how many more tea times they could get in. 281 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.319 It's a nineteen billion dollar industry in the United States, 282 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.359 so they're always trying to push to have, you know, 283 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:54.119 the the number of hours after five PM where somebody 284 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.519 might be able to run through a round of golf. 285 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:01.680 Oh gotcha, even if it's even if it means that 286 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:03.400 the sun doesn't set till nine thirty. 287 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.359 So when I was talking about spring soccer in Little League, 288 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.240 it's really the golfers or the driving pardon the punt, 289 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:14.279 the driving factor here. Uh, we got to take a 290 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.599 quick break. I got some calls on the other side 291 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.960 who I'm sure would love to talk with you. Would 292 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:20.359 you be willing to take a couple of calls on 293 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:25.200 the other side of the I I'd love to Okay, great, Uh, 294 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:30.759 it's he really explains this well. Doctor Charles Zizler, chair 295 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.079 of the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders at Brigham 296 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.519 and bring him in Women's Hospital here in Boston and 297 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.480 director of the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School. 298 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.160 We are going to get to phone calls, Harvey and 299 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.720 Kevin and if you'd like to talk with doctor Zeesler 300 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:51.079 six six one seven, we'll trying to get a few 301 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.880 of you in here. Uh and ought. It isn't often 302 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.680 you get to talk to someone who has this depth 303 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.119 of experience in this subject. If you have an interest 304 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:02.880 in it. We are coming right back on Nightside. 305 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:09.000 You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's 306 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:09.680 news Radio. 307 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.480 Joined delighted to be joined by doctor Charles Ziesler. He's 308 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.880 the chair of the Division of Sleep and Circadian Disorders 309 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.319 at Brigham and Women's Hospital, director the Division of Sleep 310 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:21.839 Medicine and Harvard Medical School. We're talking about the big 311 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:25.240 chains that will take place, as it does every fall, 312 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:27.880 when we leave daylight Savings time and go back to 313 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.880 Eastern Standard time, when we all will get an extra 314 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.559 hour of sleep this Saturday night Sunday morning, which sounds great, 315 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.680 but doctor seesel was explaining there's a lot of subsequent 316 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.559 impact here which is not necessarily healthy for our circadian 317 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.680 rhythms and by extension, healthy for us. Doctor seesel let's 318 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.680 get some phone calls. If that's okay with you, let's go. 319 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.759 We'll start off in Cambridge. Harvey is in Cambridge. Harvey, welcome, 320 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.680 You are first up this hour and nightside welcome, sir. 321 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.400 Yeah, this is a not the usual kind of topic 322 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.000 I would call in on, but I. 323 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:06.160 Want to identify yourself so that people know who this is. Harvey. 324 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.920 I'm a civil liberties and clinical defense lawyer and author 325 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:17.480 who lives in Cambridge and has a libertarian political tendencies. 326 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.319 At and a great and a dear friend, Harvey Silverglade 327 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.279 and Harvey, I owe you a phone call and a 328 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.880 matter we won't discuss, but I hope you're doing well. 329 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.880 You sound great. You're on with the doctor Zasler, go 330 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:29.440 right ahead. 331 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:35.240 My question is this My understanding is that it would 332 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:39.680 take a vote of Congress to abolish the switching from 333 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:45.359 daylight savings to Eastern standard. They're all kinds of lobbyists 334 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.559 to lobby for, you know, everything from money for local 335 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.000 roads to god knows what why is it so difficult 336 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:57.680 to get Congress to vote to abolish this? It's a 337 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.839 wartime and aquarism, as I understand it, And why is 338 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.440 it so difficult to get Congress to do something about this? 339 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.279 Well, unfortunately, Attorney Silvergate, the Congress is trying to do 340 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.839 the opposite. They're actually trying to force all Americans to 341 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:23.359 wake up an hour earlier throughout the year by pushing 342 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.279 all of our time zones eastward by one hour. That 343 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:32.319 would the estimates that that would increase cancers by one 344 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.440 hundred thousand cases per year, including five percent increase in 345 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.799 breast cancer cases and a fifteen to thirty percent increase 346 00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:45.400 in uterine cancer, liver cancer, and some types of leukemia. So, 347 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:51.480 but the golf lobby is really, you know, spending fortune 348 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.279 to try to get and they actually a couple of 349 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.640 years ago, on a voice vote, the Senate passed unanimously 350 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:03.920 to to push us all one time zone eastward, but 351 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.680 unfortunately the House decided to have hearings on it and 352 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:10.680 did not pass it. But again it's been introduced again 353 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.920 this year, So the golf lobbing. 354 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:15.759 So, just so I understand what's in play here, The 355 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:19.240 golf lobby would be pushing for that, and they are 356 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:21.839 able to get it through the Senate on a voicevode. 357 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.359 And if it hadn't been for the House, we would 358 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:30.119 all be on Eastern we'd all be on daylight savings 359 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:31.400 time throughout the. 360 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:36.279 Year permanently, so that we would be essentially on mid 361 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.079 Atlantic time because we'd be moved one time, we'd be 362 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.640 on the extreme western edge of the time zone, which 363 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:45.680 is the part of the time zone that is associated 364 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.839 with the increased health risk. Right now, we're on the 365 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.160 eastern side of the time zone of the Eastern time zone, 366 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:57.160 so we're in a much safer place right now. 367 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.759 What causes the increase in cancer incidence of cancer? I'm 368 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.480 trying to figure what what is the correlation there. Obviously 369 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.920 it has to do something on the sleep pattern, right. 370 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.240 Well, it has to do with our with the abnormal 371 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:15.200 timing of exposure light. So our internal clock depends on 372 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:20.079 morning light to be reset, and and when we're going 373 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:23.599 to school and driving work in the dark, and then 374 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.200 we're inside offices and not exposed to outdoor light, our 375 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:32.599 internal clock drifts to a later hour. It making it 376 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.960 harder to get up, harder to fall asleep. We're exposed 377 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:39.640 to a lot of artificial light that suppresses the release 378 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:44.559 of the hormone melatonin, which is a hormone that uh 379 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:50.640 that that stops the spread of cancer. So yeah, so 380 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:54.400 it's it's a it's a that's the leading mechanism. So 381 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:58.200 night shift work, for example, the World Health Organization has 382 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:02.839 labeled a probable car synogen because of the exposure to 383 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:08.839 light that night shift workers, you know, that they're to 384 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.799 which they're exposed. 385 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.839 So this would mean and Harvey jump in here if 386 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:14.799 you like that. This would seem to mean to me 387 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:23.359 that centuries ago, centuries ago, when people were living without 388 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:29.559 reference to any sort of artificial clock corrections, that they 389 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.680 probably were not they maybe they weren't living as long 390 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.559 as we are because of you know, outdoor conditions, but 391 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.559 they probably weren't dying of things like cancer as much 392 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.960 as maybe our populations are now. Is that a logical conclusion? 393 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.160 Well, I don't know about what was happening three or 394 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.599 four centuries ago, but but it is. You know, in 395 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.599 the present day, individuals who are exposed to more light 396 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.599 at night do have greatly increased risk of cardiac diseases 397 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.799 and premature death as well as diabetes and other things. 398 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.119 But would wouldn't that follow? Wouldn't that follow logically? 399 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:11.440 On? 400 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.319 Doctor? That you know that that people who lived in 401 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:21.480