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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty nine, the body of a Canadian nurse

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<v Speaker 1>was found bound and strangled outside of Vancouver, capping off

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<v Speaker 1>nearly seven years of terrifying harassment and stalking. Despite over

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred reported incidents, including threatening phone calls, break ins,

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<v Speaker 1>and physical attacks, the police found no evidence of the

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<v Speaker 1>alleged stalker. Now to this day, debates ray je On

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<v Speaker 1>over whether the victim was truly being stalked and tormented,

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<v Speaker 1>where if her death was the result of her own hand,

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<v Speaker 1>making her case one of Canada's most chilling mysteries yet.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the story of Cindy James.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicketing Rim,

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<v Speaker 2>a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>The following I have material intended audience.

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<v Speaker 2>Listen.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I really feel like we have just nailed

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<v Speaker 1>our instros at this point, like like we have the

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<v Speaker 1>same cadence and voice and everything. Like my name's Ben.

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<v Speaker 1>Then you do your thing, go for it. You are

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<v Speaker 1>way too tired this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>I like, what the fuck doing I don't care. You

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<v Speaker 2>just did it like I did. You start over. My

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<v Speaker 2>name's ben' nicle and you're listening to Wicked and Graham.

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<v Speaker 1>True crime podcast. It was different because we're like smiling

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<v Speaker 1>and laughing on that one.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know what I mean, right, Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I honestly think you have like nailed it even more

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<v Speaker 1>than me. You're like exactly the same every time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's good. There was a problem though,

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<v Speaker 2>because I would like a few months ago, where I

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<v Speaker 2>would start it with or something like oh yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole or something, and then you were like, you got

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<v Speaker 2>to stop this annoying.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually I haven't noticed you might still be doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit. I maybe I I shouldn't have pointed it.

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<v Speaker 1>Out because I forgot all about it, but I noticed

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<v Speaker 1>it a couple of times. Yeah, you were like, I'm Nicole.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny because I watched this these Instagram stories of

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<v Speaker 2>this this person like doing outfit try on Sure's at

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<v Speaker 2>a clothing store, and everyone that she starts with she's

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<v Speaker 2>does that. Oh no, And so if you're like going

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<v Speaker 2>through really quick, it's like like time and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I guess no one's ever pointed that out

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<v Speaker 2>to her. Maybe hey, drive me nuts nuts.

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<v Speaker 1>For show, But anyways, yeah, I just wanted to point

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<v Speaker 1>that out. I thought that was kind of cool. I

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<v Speaker 1>also wanted to point out that we have some pretty

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<v Speaker 1>cool people over on Patreon supporting our show, including Chandra Vincent,

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<v Speaker 1>Julie Triplett, Jennifer Hoague. I might have said your last

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<v Speaker 1>name wrong, sorry if I did, Stephanie Cody, Marie Sar,

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<v Speaker 1>Ultimate Badass Vanilla Killa, and Layla Shindl Decker. So thank

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<v Speaker 1>you very much for supporting us over there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quite a list right right on.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if Ultimate Badass Vanilla Killa is your your

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<v Speaker 1>given name legal name?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it on your driver's license? Like, I'm curious, you know, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Could be, you know, but that just made me think

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<v Speaker 2>of like names that are on driver's license, and I

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<v Speaker 2>thought of mclovin.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, gotta love mclovin. But yeah, shout out to

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<v Speaker 1>you guys. Thank you for signing up over on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 1>If you guys want to sign up too, you can

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and check out the link and the description

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<v Speaker 1>of this podcast. You get exclusive content behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been a little bit quiet recently because we've been

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<v Speaker 1>doing a bit of behind the scenes rehaul. We've been signing.

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<v Speaker 1>We signed a new contract heading over to a new platform.

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<v Speaker 1>We joined the Belief Believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Network hosting platform hosting platform.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, it's been a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>chaos behind the scenes, a little bit quiet, but everything

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<v Speaker 1>is lining up. We're happy where we are. It's great

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<v Speaker 1>people that we're working with. As far as you guys

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<v Speaker 1>are concerned, there should be pretty much no changes with

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<v Speaker 1>the show. It's just basically administrative stuff, to put it

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<v Speaker 1>that way, but we're super super happy. And yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>just wanted to throw that out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, there was a little bit of a time

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<v Speaker 2>where there weren't ads or whatever on the podcast, so

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<v Speaker 2>that would be probably the only thing you would have noticed,

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<v Speaker 2>really pretty much anbition.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think the little chime or something like

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<v Speaker 1>that might be different when the ads play or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's that's basically it. That's all you'll notice. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we should get into this case though.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, let's do it, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is part one of the story of Cindy James,

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<v Speaker 1>So there will be a part two to this one.

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<v Speaker 1>This one it's a little in depth, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>to it, So buckley seat belts. It's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a wild ride and and you're not going to get

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<v Speaker 1>the conclusion until next well this next episode, which will

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<v Speaker 1>be in a few days.

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<v Speaker 2>We haven't done a two parter for.

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<v Speaker 1>A while, we haven't done it part, so we are

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<v Speaker 1>due for one. So either buckle your seatbelts get ready

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<v Speaker 1>for it. Or hey, maybe you're gonna wait for the

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<v Speaker 1>next episode to come out and you'll binge the two together.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever the case, get ready for it, because this is

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<v Speaker 1>one hell of a story. So Cindy Elizabeth Hack was

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<v Speaker 1>born on June twelfth, nineteen forty four, in Oliver, Oliver,

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<v Speaker 1>British Columbia. She was born to her parents, Matilda and

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<v Speaker 1>Auto Hack. She was one of six kids, and growing

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<v Speaker 1>up back then was a whole it was a whole

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<v Speaker 1>different world. Matilda and Auto were, you're pretty old school.

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<v Speaker 1>They believe kids should be quiet, behave, and not make

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of fuss. Auto in particular, was tough

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<v Speaker 1>as nails. He if he was in a bad mood,

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<v Speaker 1>it was usually kind of the kids who ended up

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<v Speaker 1>receiving the bad end of it. And his way of

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<v Speaker 1>handling discipline, well, let's just say it was not exactly gentle.

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<v Speaker 1>In his mind, if something was wrong, he could just

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<v Speaker 1>mack it out. Of you sort of things. Oh yeah, now,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it was like abusive sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just like, you know, back in that time, like

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<v Speaker 1>spanking your kids sort of thing, or give you a

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<v Speaker 1>smack of size her.

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<v Speaker 2>Head kind of more acceptable. I guess you could say.

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<v Speaker 1>It was more accepted at the time. Not to say

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<v Speaker 1>it's right or not abuse, but just kind of giving

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<v Speaker 1>you a frame of reference. Now. From a young age,

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<v Speaker 1>Cindy figured out the safest bet was to stay on

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<v Speaker 1>Auto's good side, though that was a lot easier said

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<v Speaker 1>than done. She threw herself into her school work and chores,

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<v Speaker 1>always hoping if she did well enough, Auto might actually

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<v Speaker 1>be proud of her. Whenever she got even a sliver

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<v Speaker 1>of attention from him, she'd light up and go on

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<v Speaker 1>about her latest accomplishments, her grades, or how much her

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<v Speaker 1>teachers liked her, or how hard she was working in school,

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<v Speaker 1>But compliments or praise from anyone besides Cindy herself were

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<v Speaker 1>few and far between. After school, Cindy made up her

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<v Speaker 1>mind she was going to become a nurse. Helping people

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<v Speaker 1>had always come naturally to her, and she figured nursing

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<v Speaker 1>was the perfect way to do that. School was kind

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<v Speaker 1>of her safe place, so she felt right at home

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<v Speaker 1>in her nursing program. Every time she checked in with

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<v Speaker 1>her family, she made sure to mention how well things

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<v Speaker 1>were going. Now. At some point, her whole family ended

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<v Speaker 1>up moving to France, leaving Cindy on her own for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time in her life. She kept in touch,

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<v Speaker 1>and so did they. They were writing letters whenever they

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<v Speaker 1>could write, and of course visiting for the holidays as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But even with these letters and the occasional visits, Cindy

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<v Speaker 1>often talked about how lonely she felt during that time,

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<v Speaker 1>at least until she met a guy who would become

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<v Speaker 1>her very first fiance. Oh yeah, getting a little romantic

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<v Speaker 1>up in this house. So she met this guy while

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<v Speaker 1>working at the hospital. Allegedly he was a doctor working

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<v Speaker 1>at the hospital as well. So she's doing her training

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<v Speaker 1>shifts and stuff, you know, and they kind of cross paths,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's kind of how it ignited. Now, they spent

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time working together, and before long he

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<v Speaker 1>asked her out. Things moved fast after that, and they

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<v Speaker 1>fell hard for each other and soon they were basically inseparable.

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<v Speaker 1>Couldn't stop gushing about him, you know, especially in these letters.

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<v Speaker 1>As she's writing home, she told her parents how he

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<v Speaker 1>made her feel special, how he treated her like a queen,

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<v Speaker 1>and how he'd be in the perfect husband and of

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<v Speaker 1>course would be the perfect father someday. Sorry I should

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<v Speaker 1>say perfect husband eventually because he's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, okay, I was like, I miss the wedding.

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<v Speaker 1>No, my apologies. I worded that weird, how he's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be the perfect husband and father someday. Now. Her

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<v Speaker 1>family naturally wanted to know more about this guy, simple

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<v Speaker 1>things like you know what's his name, you know what's

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<v Speaker 1>he like, and all this sort of stuff, But Cindy

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<v Speaker 1>always seemed to dodge those questions. Instead, she'd steer the

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<v Speaker 1>conversation back to you know, how perfect he was, and

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<v Speaker 1>how he'd treated her, and how he'd already popped the question.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it is okay. For some reason, I'm thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>is this made up or something? Uh? Bear with me, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>because but at first I was thinking, okay, that's how

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<v Speaker 2>she sort of always talked to her family, like wants

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<v Speaker 2>to make them think she's like so good and looking

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<v Speaker 2>for praise and stuff but not really getting it. But

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, there I'm just like, Okay, what's

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<v Speaker 2>going on here?

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<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of questions around this individual. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>put it that way. Well, we're going through it right now. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So this was huge news, this whole like pop the

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<v Speaker 1>question being engaged sort of thing, obviously. And while some

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<v Speaker 1>of Cindy's relatives were you know, over the moon for her,

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<v Speaker 1>Matilda and Auto couldn't help but feel like something was off.

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<v Speaker 1>Why hadn't this guy, whoever he was, tried to reach

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<v Speaker 1>out to them, even just to introduce himself. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe he should say hello to his future in laws

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe you know, ask for their blessing, because we

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<v Speaker 1>are talking about you know, a little bit older school

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<v Speaker 1>type people here, right, And why was Cindy being so

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<v Speaker 1>weirdly vague whenever asked these basic questions. It was strange,

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<v Speaker 1>But with them living so far away, they didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>want to push too hard or ask too much themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So still they made it clear that they'd really loved

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<v Speaker 1>to meet him, ideally in person, of course. Then eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they invited him to come along for the

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<v Speaker 1>holidays with Cindy so they could all, you know, get

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<v Speaker 1>to know each other. But every time they brought this up,

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<v Speaker 1>Cindy again had some sort of diversion from the conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>or even some excuse. She said, in this case that

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<v Speaker 1>he was too swamped at work where he was tied

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<v Speaker 1>up with his own family, he wouldn't be able to

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<v Speaker 1>make the holidays. Even though her family never got to

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<v Speaker 1>meet him. Cindy assured them that, you know, once they

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<v Speaker 1>were married, they'd figure out a way to split holidays

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<v Speaker 1>between both sides. She promised that it no matter how busy

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<v Speaker 1>life got, they would make it work eventually.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they are busy people, right, so I mean it

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense that I'm it's journey right over there, so

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<v Speaker 2>for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Now. Unfortunately, that promise never had a chance to come true.

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<v Speaker 1>As the holidays crept closer, Cindy and her fiance were

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately hit with devastating news. What was supposed to be

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<v Speaker 1>just a standard check up at the doctor's office turned

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<v Speaker 1>into a nightmare. See, her fiance was diagnosed with a

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<v Speaker 1>rare and aggressive form of cancer. The doctor told him

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<v Speaker 1>he only had a few months left at best.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Cindy was heartbroken, but she refused to give up. She

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<v Speaker 1>told him that, you know, in her mind, they're already

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<v Speaker 1>married and in every way. This is like, this is

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<v Speaker 1>how it matters. Right. We're together, we're basically married. She's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be there for him through better and through worse,

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<v Speaker 1>just like a married couple should be.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So she was determined to stick by a side no

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<v Speaker 1>matter how rough the road ahead was going to be,

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<v Speaker 1>But her fiance didn't see it the same way as

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<v Speaker 1>she did. After the diagnosis, the two of them decided

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<v Speaker 1>to go ahead with a ski trip that they had

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<v Speaker 1>already booked. It was supposed to be a fun little

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<v Speaker 1>getaway before the wedding, you know, a chance to relax,

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<v Speaker 1>just be together. Now it felt more like a final escape. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>This trip, however, changed from what it was what it

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<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be. Instead, it ended in tragedy. Cindy's

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<v Speaker 1>fiance took his own life, leaving a note that said

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<v Speaker 1>he couldn't stand the thought of her watching him waste away.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted her to remember him as the man she

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<v Speaker 1>fell in love with, full of life, strong and completely

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<v Speaker 1>in love with her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Okay, that's like so sad, right.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's where things get strange. No one could ever

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<v Speaker 1>find a single shred of evidence that this fiance ever existed.

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<v Speaker 1>No records, no obituaries, oh nothing. There were no reports

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<v Speaker 1>of a man taking his life at that ski trip.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, there wasn't any concrete evidence Cindy was ever

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<v Speaker 1>engaged at all. The only trace of him was in

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<v Speaker 1>the letters to her family, and even in those the

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<v Speaker 1>details were all over the place, never quite adding up

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<v Speaker 1>and very vague.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So this man might have been made up and

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<v Speaker 2>then she decided that she had enough of this made

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<v Speaker 2>up story, and then he had got cancer and then

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<v Speaker 2>took his own life.

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<v Speaker 1>For It's hard to say, but as far as evidence goes,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems that he was never real and he could

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<v Speaker 1>have very well been made up.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was a doctor, right, like she met him

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<v Speaker 2>through the hospital or something.

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<v Speaker 1>Met him through the hospital, and as far as I

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<v Speaker 1>can find, he was supposedly a doctor.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, So you just I don't know, you think

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<v Speaker 2>that would there would be evidence of this or or

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<v Speaker 2>something you know, of his story out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, coworkers maybe being able to you know, confirm that. Yeah, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I know the dude his name was Stephen.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen was the man she was dating and he died

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<v Speaker 1>and like totally get it, Like there should be some

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<v Speaker 1>links somewhere pointing to the existence of this individual. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but as far as anyone can see, there's nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and because what time frame was this in? Sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you mean?

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<v Speaker 1>What time? Like?

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<v Speaker 2>How old of a case is this? I forget the year?

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<v Speaker 1>This is happening in the eighties, I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, I mean still there because we kind

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<v Speaker 2>of think how everything is readily available to us now,

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<v Speaker 2>but then back then it isn't as much, right, So

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like something like that could potentially slip through.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean it is.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a possibility.

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<v Speaker 1>It is possible, but it's not the most probable, let's

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<v Speaker 1>put it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, whether that mystery fiance ever actually existed or not,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know. But Cindy eventually moved on with her

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<v Speaker 1>life one way or another, and eventually she crossed paths

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<v Speaker 1>with a man named Roy make Peace, a psychiatrist originally

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<v Speaker 1>from South Africa. Now Roy did in fact exist. Roy

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00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.600
<v Speaker 1>was thirty nine when he met Cindy, which put them

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<v Speaker 1>nearly two decades apart in age. So she was about

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00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.320
<v Speaker 1>twenty ish and he was like thirty nine ish, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But the gap, it didn't really sit well with her family.

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<v Speaker 1>Right off the bat, they felt like Roy was taking

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of how trusting and inexperienced Cindy was in life.

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<v Speaker 1>To them, it seemed like he was drawn in by

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<v Speaker 1>her youth and good looks, and they worried that she

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<v Speaker 1>was just a little bit too naive to see it.

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00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:10.480
<v Speaker 1>But as time passed on, they spent more and more

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<v Speaker 1>time around Roy and Cindy together and their opinions softened

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<v Speaker 1>on him a little bit. The two seemed to actually

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00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.399
<v Speaker 1>balance each other out, at least on the surface, and

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<v Speaker 1>some of those initial worries they started to fade. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why it was such a shock when after sixteen years

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00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:34.120
<v Speaker 1>of marriage, Cindy dropped a bombshell. She told her family

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00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>she was leaving Roy, and not just because they'd grown apart,

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<v Speaker 1>but because that she had been abused pretty much from

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<v Speaker 1>the start of the relationship. Boy. Yeah, So to clarify,

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00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.799
<v Speaker 1>going back a little bit, the story takes place in

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<v Speaker 1>the eighties, yes, but you have to look at like

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<v Speaker 1>the sixteen years, so it was like probably early seventies,

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00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe late sixties when she supposedly.

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<v Speaker 2>Met that Oh okay, right, doctor dudeen.

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<v Speaker 1>Ski trip thing right now? According to Cindy, it began

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<v Speaker 1>with small things in the relationship with Roy, emotional games.

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00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.360
<v Speaker 1>For example, if she didn't go along with something Roy wanted,

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00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.559
<v Speaker 1>he'd give her the cold shoulder for days. One big

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<v Speaker 1>point of content was Roy's love of sailing. Cindy, on

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00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.919
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, was absolutely terrified of water, convinced she'd

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<v Speaker 1>drowned if she ever ended up overboard, but Roy didn't

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00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>really care. He wanted her to come with him anyways,

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00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.759
<v Speaker 1>and when she said no, he'd freeze her out completely,

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<v Speaker 1>treating her like she didn't exist, just ignoring her outright.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, when she has an like, an actual fear,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, as the years went on in this relationship,

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<v Speaker 1>Cindy said, the emotional manipulation turned into more physical. She

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<v Speaker 1>told her family that Roy would lash out and hit

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<v Speaker 1>her when he did whenever she did something wrong or

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00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.000
<v Speaker 1>something that he didn't approve of. There was even one

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<v Speaker 1>story where she claimed he'd thrown her down the stair,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving her with black eyes and she had to hide

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00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:08.079
<v Speaker 1>it under her makeup. What made it all harder to believe,

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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.559
<v Speaker 1>at least for the people around her, was that no

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00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.319
<v Speaker 1>one had ever seen any clear evidence of that abuse.

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00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.799
<v Speaker 1>Her coworkers, her friends, even her own family had never

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00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.400
<v Speaker 1>noticed bruises or any obvious signs that something was wrong. Now,

338
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:23.640
<v Speaker 1>but of course that didn't mean that it didn't happen.

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00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.119
<v Speaker 1>No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors.

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00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.680
<v Speaker 1>People hide that stuff all the time, so that's definitely

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00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.920
<v Speaker 1>not an indication that it's not happening right now. En

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00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Roy was asked about all of this, he did admit that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there were two separate times in their entire marriage over

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<v Speaker 1>the course of sixteen years, where he did slap Cindy

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00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:48.680
<v Speaker 1>during arguments and incidents. He said, yeah, he crossed the

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<v Speaker 1>line these two times and probably of course regretted it

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<v Speaker 1>even but he did completely deny any kind of violent

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<v Speaker 1>outside of that, or any sort of controlling or any

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<v Speaker 1>sort of abuse outside of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he's admitting to his wrongs. I guess you can.

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<v Speaker 1>Say he did admit that twice he struck her, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was no other things like throwing her down the stairs,

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<v Speaker 1>for example. Yeah, so not to say that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>striking her two times.

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<v Speaker 2>Is is is? Okay? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so outside of those incidents, he's saying there was

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<v Speaker 1>no violent or physical abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>That it hadn't escalated to the point where he's throwing

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<v Speaker 2>her down the stairs.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct now. Even though her family was caught off guard

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<v Speaker 1>by Cindy's decision to leave roy they were one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>percent behind her to do so, and they weren't too

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<v Speaker 1>worried about her figuring out her life on her own either.

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<v Speaker 1>By then, Cindy had built a solid career as a nurse,

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone knew her as very smart, very capable, and

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated to her job. She had a great reputation, and

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00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.839
<v Speaker 1>her friends and family made it very crystal clear that

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<v Speaker 1>if she ever needed anything, they would be there in

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<v Speaker 1>a heartbeat for her. After for about four months of

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<v Speaker 1>the breakup, so Cindy and Royer now split up. In

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<v Speaker 1>September of nineteen eighty two, Cindy sat down with her

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<v Speaker 1>family and dropped some unsettling news. She was convinced someone

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<v Speaker 1>was stalking her. See over the last few weeks, she

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00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.400
<v Speaker 1>said she'd spotted a man, always dressed head to toe

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<v Speaker 1>in black, sneaking around her property. When her family asked

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00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.920
<v Speaker 1>if she could describe this man who was sneaking around

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00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.960
<v Speaker 1>her property, Cindy was pretty vague. She was sure that

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<v Speaker 1>it was a man. But that was about all she

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<v Speaker 1>could say then, not even just two weeks later, things

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00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.319
<v Speaker 1>escalated from there. The man clad in black wasn't just

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<v Speaker 1>lurking outside anymore. The phone calls started. Cindy said. The

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<v Speaker 1>calls were terrifying, graphic and violent and downright disturbing. The

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00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:53.119
<v Speaker 1>caller didn't just threaten her, he described in vivid, horrifying details,

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00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.079
<v Speaker 1>exactly what he wanted to do to her. Oh, she

385
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.480
<v Speaker 1>said that she can even hear him getting off while

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<v Speaker 1>on the phone.

387
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.400
<v Speaker 2>That's some nasty shit, yeah.

388
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Which left her feeling completely violated and unsure what to

389
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.720
<v Speaker 1>do next. At first, she thought maybe it was some

390
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:15.319
<v Speaker 1>sick teenager pulling a twisted prank, right, something completely tasteless,

391
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.279
<v Speaker 1>just trying to freak her out for the laughs. But

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<v Speaker 1>as the calls kept going, she got, you know, the

393
00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:25.119
<v Speaker 1>clearer idea that this was not just some dumb kid.

394
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.240
<v Speaker 1>The threats got weirder and more personal, like this person

395
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:34.400
<v Speaker 1>was actually watching her, knew her routines, her schedules, maybe

396
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.799
<v Speaker 1>even what she was wearing.

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00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I was just going to say new things about her.

398
00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:42.440
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, things just spiraled, let's put it that way.

399
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<v Speaker 1>On October twelfth, nineteen eighty two, about a month after

400
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.039
<v Speaker 1>she first spotted this prowler, Cindy picked up the phone

401
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.799
<v Speaker 1>and heard that same chilling voice on the other end.

402
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.119
<v Speaker 1>In a low, almost whispered tone, the caller told her

403
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get you one night soon, and she

404
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't stick around to hear how that sentence ended.

405
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I was like I was on the edge.

406
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Might see end end.

407
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.559
<v Speaker 1>She immediately slammed the phone down, heart racing. After weeks

408
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.079
<v Speaker 1>of this, Cindy finally decided enough was enough. She called

409
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:20.839
<v Speaker 1>the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the RCMP, to report everything

410
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the prowler, you know, the disgusting phone calls, the constant

411
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.799
<v Speaker 1>feeling that someone was watching her. She needed to tell them.

412
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:30.920
<v Speaker 1>The officers took her very seriously.

413
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's good.

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00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.519
<v Speaker 1>They could tell how shaken she was and you know,

415
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.720
<v Speaker 1>said that they were definitely concerned. So they suggested that

416
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.400
<v Speaker 1>she start keeping track of every single call that she got,

417
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, even the ones that seemed normal, right down

418
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:45.960
<v Speaker 1>the times. What they said, if the number showed up,

419
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:49.839
<v Speaker 1>anything that she could remember anything at all. You know,

420
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe the caller is describing what she's wearing, you know,

421
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.200
<v Speaker 1>writ down that the caller knew these things, whatever it was,

422
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.799
<v Speaker 1>any detail. The hope was that maybe with enough records

423
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.240
<v Speaker 1>they could find some kind of pattern or clue or

424
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.759
<v Speaker 1>someone behind this right now. Cindy also asked if there's

425
00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:07.759
<v Speaker 1>any way that they could send an officer to stay

426
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:09.440
<v Speaker 1>with her for a while, just in case this guy

427
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.559
<v Speaker 1>called or showed up again right now. Unfortunately, the police

428
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>told her that that wasn't an option. There was no

429
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.720
<v Speaker 1>evidence right now. There was just her word that there's

430
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.720
<v Speaker 1>something going on. So there's no proof, no recordings, no witnesses, nothing,

431
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and they couldn't justify assigning someone to her house. It's

432
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.039
<v Speaker 1>just not how it works right now. They weren't dismissing her,

433
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.599
<v Speaker 1>but their hands were kind of tied now. The lack

434
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.440
<v Speaker 1>of any real action from the RCMP left Cindy feeling

435
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.799
<v Speaker 1>pretty isolated and completely alone and honestly kind of embarrassed

436
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, like maybe she was overreacting, for example.

437
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:51.599
<v Speaker 1>But that feeling didn't last long. See, not long after

438
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the officers left her home, her phone rang again. The

439
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 1>second it started ringing, her stomach dropped immediately. If this

440
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.160
<v Speaker 1>creep had been watching her like she suspected, then they

441
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:05.519
<v Speaker 1>probably saw the police leave and they knew she was alone.

442
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Her hand shook as she picked up the phone, and

443
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 1>on the other end was a voice that said, I'll

444
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:13.880
<v Speaker 1>get you.

445
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.160
<v Speaker 2>That's it, just I'll get you. Okay. Here I thought

446
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:19.880
<v Speaker 2>they were going to say something about the police.

447
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 1>But well, the next day the same voice called back,

448
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the same voice that had been calling, and this time

449
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.599
<v Speaker 1>it was even worse, and they said, so you think

450
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.400
<v Speaker 1>calling the police will keep you safe? You wait, I've

451
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.519
<v Speaker 1>got my zipper open. Ugh, I'm talking to my throbbing

452
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:37.200
<v Speaker 1>dot dot.

453
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:42.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, this is so unsettling. What a nasty, nasty man.

454
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, Cindy again didn't wait for the finish of

455
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.559
<v Speaker 1>that sentence as she dropped the phone down on its receiver,

456
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and that was that, yes, on the receiver. We are

457
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.079
<v Speaker 1>not talking about cell phones.

458
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I know. I'm almost surprised that she picks up the phone.

459
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, well, I mean, I don't ever pick

460
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:00.880
<v Speaker 2>up my phone, like it rang this morning and You're like,

461
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you have a call, and I'm like, cool.

462
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, honestly, it wasn't even ringing. It's on dudelster.

463
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's always usually just I don't know what like silent. Well, no,

464
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>not the calls so oh, the calls are always usually

465
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.000
<v Speaker 2>to someone like trying.

466
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.599
<v Speaker 1>To oh, telemarketers or scammers and.

467
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know the yeah, but she's keeping answering her phone.

468
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I guess she does have to document

469
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.319
<v Speaker 2>this and stuff for the police exactly.

470
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>So she was shaking and she grabbed a notepad, and

471
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.319
<v Speaker 1>that's exactly what she did. She documented this phone call,

472
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>diding exactly what the police told her. She wrote down everything,

473
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.920
<v Speaker 1>the time, exact words, which is how we can quote it,

474
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 1>even how the voice sounded. She was determined to give

475
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:43.640
<v Speaker 1>them something they could actually work with, you know, next

476
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.519
<v Speaker 1>time that she called for help. Right, But whoever this was,

477
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:51.319
<v Speaker 1>they weren't done. They were just getting warmed up. Two

478
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.039
<v Speaker 1>days after her first call to the RCMPI S Sindy

479
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 1>phoned them again. This time someone had been right outside

480
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.480
<v Speaker 1>her house. She swore she heard footsteps on her and

481
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.039
<v Speaker 1>when she went out to go check, she found her

482
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.000
<v Speaker 1>porch lights were smashed. Oh geez, Now, the porch lights

483
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:10.440
<v Speaker 1>being smashed, to me, that means, you know, if she's

484
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>entering or exiting her house at night, it's dark, it's dark. Yeah,

485
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:18.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe concealing an attack, So that's ominous in itself.

486
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.680
<v Speaker 1>The police came back and they did a thorough check

487
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.759
<v Speaker 1>of the area. They checked her house, her yard, even

488
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.119
<v Speaker 1>up and down the street in the neighborhood. They didn't

489
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:31.160
<v Speaker 1>find a thing, no footprints, no broken glass leading anywhere,

490
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.640
<v Speaker 1>no shadowy figure hiding nearby. It was like, whoever did

491
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.359
<v Speaker 1>this just disappeared into thin air. Then the very next

492
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.400
<v Speaker 1>day things escalated again. Cindy called the police in a

493
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>full panic, saying someone had just thrown a rock straight

494
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>through her window, and not just that, she was convinced

495
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.559
<v Speaker 1>someone had actually been inside her house. When officers showed up,

496
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.119
<v Speaker 1>they found Cindy practically shaking out of her skin in hysteria.

497
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 1>It was clear she was terrified, and honestly, they couldn't

498
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.720
<v Speaker 1>blame her. Ever was messing with her was getting bolder

499
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:03.720
<v Speaker 1>by the day, and it was obvious Cindy felt like

500
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.279
<v Speaker 1>she was running at a time. Once again, the officer

501
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.599
<v Speaker 1>searched everywhere, the house, the yard, the street, neighborhood, and

502
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.440
<v Speaker 1>once again there was nothing, no sign of anyone hanging

503
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:21.279
<v Speaker 1>around nothing. Whoever was stalking Cindy was either a ghost

504
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:23.440
<v Speaker 1>or they were blending in so well with the neighborhood

505
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 1>that they might have just been hiding and right in

506
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 1>plain sight. Now I'm not accusing anyone by saying this,

507
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.440
<v Speaker 1>but for example, it was the neighbor. It was, you know,

508
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.920
<v Speaker 1>one of the officers, something like that, someone who can

509
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.319
<v Speaker 1>hide in plain sight. And like when a phone call

510
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:39.559
<v Speaker 1>comes in or an officer comes in, it's like the

511
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:42.079
<v Speaker 1>neighbor's caught in the yard and it's like, oh no,

512
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm just like grabbing a piece of garbage off the lawn. Okay,

513
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.200
<v Speaker 1>something like that for example, you know what I mean. Now,

514
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.519
<v Speaker 1>that same week, just when Cindy thought things couldn't get

515
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.799
<v Speaker 1>any worse, she went to climb into bed at the

516
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.599
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, she pulled back the covers and froze.

517
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 1>See when she pulled back those covers in her blankets,

518
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.039
<v Speaker 1>she found her pillow sliced wide open with a knife.

519
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 1>The realization hit her like a punch in the gut.

520
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Whoever was tormenting her had just been watching. Hadn't just

521
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:16.359
<v Speaker 1>been watching from a distance. They'd been inside the house

522
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.000
<v Speaker 1>confirmed now, and maybe even while she was inside the

523
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:20.519
<v Speaker 1>house too.

524
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh my, oh, okay, that's too much. That is so alarming.

525
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know how you could could carry on, really,

526
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I know.

527
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.519
<v Speaker 1>Cindy was shaking in fear, and of course called the police.

528
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.400
<v Speaker 1>They showed up took her statement, but with everything piled up,

529
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 1>one of the officers, Constable Patrick McBride with the RCMP,

530
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.680
<v Speaker 1>he decided he was going to take a bit more action.

531
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.000
<v Speaker 1>He started digging into her case a bit more seriously. Now,

532
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Patrick couldn't ignore the timing. Cindy had just ended a

533
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 1>nearly twenty year marriage right sixteen years, and now she

534
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 1>was living alone for the first time in ages. That

535
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:59.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of life change can leave someone very vulnerable and

536
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.799
<v Speaker 1>in Patrick's mind, and it seemed pretty likely that her

537
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 1>ex husband might have something to do with all of this. Okay, now,

538
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.759
<v Speaker 1>Cindy shut that theory down real fast. She told Constable

539
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Patrick that she didn't believe Roy would ever do something

540
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:16.519
<v Speaker 1>like this. According to her, Roy was way too busy

541
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:18.720
<v Speaker 1>with work to be sneaking around her house. And she

542
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:21.720
<v Speaker 1>also said that she and Roy were actually on pretty

543
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.680
<v Speaker 1>decent terms and that he would never hurt her.

544
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but also, I'm just gonna play devil's advocate. As

545
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.599
<v Speaker 2>you say, being in a relationship takes a lot, like

546
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.480
<v Speaker 2>a long a lot of your time, and so all

547
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, if you're not in a relationship, I

548
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like you would have so much spare time that

549
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>he may have time to do this.

550
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.559
<v Speaker 1>That's true, That's very true. Now, one thing is clear, though,

551
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.279
<v Speaker 1>what she told officers, being you know, they're in good

552
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.400
<v Speaker 1>terms and that he would never hurt her, it didn't

553
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.759
<v Speaker 1>line up with her story she told friends and family

554
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.880
<v Speaker 1>about her abuse during the marriage. Right Still, though, Cindy

555
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:02.400
<v Speaker 1>insisted Roy was not a threat. In fact, she even

556
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.200
<v Speaker 1>said that she called Roy before she contacted the police

557
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:08.440
<v Speaker 1>about these events, and he'd actually been the one to

558
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.599
<v Speaker 1>tell her that she needed to report everything to the

559
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:16.319
<v Speaker 1>authorities and get some protection. So that doesn't exactly screamed guilt.

560
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>If Roy was the one behind all this, why would

561
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.519
<v Speaker 1>he encourage her to get the comps involved?

562
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Right? Well, I mean not necessarily. I feel like people

563
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 2>sometimes it's like covering your own book, right.

564
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:31.680
<v Speaker 1>True, But at one point, like he wants her to

565
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>be alone and vulnerable, right, getting the police involved is

566
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.680
<v Speaker 1>going to make that harder. So most likely, not for sure,

567
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.279
<v Speaker 1>I totally agree with you, but Devil's advocate. Most likely

568
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 1>he wouldn't want that to be the case, you know,

569
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:48.839
<v Speaker 1>m hm. So, hoping to get some outside perspective, Constable

570
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Patrick decided to check with the people living next door

571
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.160
<v Speaker 1>to Cindy. Maybe someone had seen something. Turned out, one

572
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.400
<v Speaker 1>of the neighbors they had. They told Patrick they'd noticed

573
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.480
<v Speaker 1>a man hanging around outside these places more than once,

574
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:05.279
<v Speaker 1>sometimes during the day, sometimes late at night. The neighbor

575
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.920
<v Speaker 1>even saw him walking right through Cindy's front gate once. Now,

576
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 1>at the time, they figured this was just some new

577
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.599
<v Speaker 1>boyfriend or something. After all, she's nearly single, right, so

578
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:16.119
<v Speaker 1>they didn't think much of it. When the neighbor was

579
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 1>shown a photo of Roy, they didn't hesitate to say

580
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:21.759
<v Speaker 1>that they were one hundred percent sure that that man

581
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.519
<v Speaker 1>that they seen was not Roy.

582
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, I thought you were going to go the

583
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.039
<v Speaker 2>other way with that one, but that's.

584
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Why I lingered on the side. So drug it on

585
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 1>a bit to build that suspense and it worked, clearly did.

586
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.480
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, they confirmed that the man in that they

587
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>had seen lurking around was not Roy, not the same

588
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.720
<v Speaker 1>guy in the photo that they the RCMP showed. Now,

589
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Speaker 1>one more piece of the puzzle came from inside Cindy's

590
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.519
<v Speaker 1>house itself. She had been renting out her basement to

591
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.200
<v Speaker 1>a couple of tenants to help cover her bills. So

592
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:54.319
<v Speaker 1>Patrick talked to them too. Both of them said they'd

593
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:58.759
<v Speaker 1>occasionally heard noises upstairs when Cindy should have been at work, footsteps,

594
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.559
<v Speaker 1>doors opening, that kind of thing. Now, at the time,

595
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:03.359
<v Speaker 1>they figured maybe Cindy would have just you know, come

596
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:04.720
<v Speaker 1>home early from work whatever.

597
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, yeah, people always just make excuses up for things, right,

598
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 2>because I mean that's human nature.

599
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.359
<v Speaker 1>So well exactly, And it's not like these people know

600
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Cindy's schedule, or probably don't know Cindy's schedule exactly.

601
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Maybe she's sick and home or something.

602
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, or swap shifts with someone else, you know. I'm

603
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 1>sure nurses probably do that because they got quite a

604
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.839
<v Speaker 1>radic schedules off, right, So I would imagine that there

605
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 1>is some shifts swapping with them. I don't think that

606
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.960
<v Speaker 1>would be uncommon. But now with everything happening, they were

607
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:35.920
<v Speaker 1>starting to wonder if that person or footsteps or doors

608
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 1>closing that they were hearing was actually, you know, the

609
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:44.359
<v Speaker 1>person who was tormenting Cindy. Now, Constable Patrick wasn't just

610
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>interested in Cindy's case. See, it quickly became personal for him.

611
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Something about her situation really struck him, and after just

612
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:53.759
<v Speaker 1>a couple of days in the case, he took it

613
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 1>upon himself to show up at her house with a

614
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:59.000
<v Speaker 1>toolbox in hand, and he installed the dead bolts on

615
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:01.440
<v Speaker 1>all of her trying to give her at least some

616
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:02.240
<v Speaker 1>peace of mind.

617
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, that like warms my heart.

618
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He also promised he'd stop by every day to

619
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>check in, just to make sure she was okay. Now,

620
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:16.279
<v Speaker 1>this kind of personal involvement is not exactly standard police procedure,

621
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>but Patrick was already feeling a pull towards Sindry, that

622
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Cindy that went beyond just doing his job. Oh yeah,

623
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.640
<v Speaker 1>so he was starting to, you know, get some feelings

624
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:33.960
<v Speaker 1>for her, right, okay, Yeah, So that attachment, that feeling,

625
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.920
<v Speaker 1>of course, eventually spilled into his personal life. His marriage,

626
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>for example, would come to an end, and soon after

627
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.000
<v Speaker 1>that he and Cindy officially started dating.

628
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, Okay, so this guy was even married.

629
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:49.039
<v Speaker 1>He was married, correct?

630
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

631
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:54.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm unsure if he left his wife for Cindy, or

632
00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:59.079
<v Speaker 1>if the attention he was giving Cindy within the case

633
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.039
<v Speaker 1>or other things caused trouble in the marriage for an

634
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.839
<v Speaker 1>amicable split up, but one way or another, the marriage

635
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.640
<v Speaker 1>ended and he ended up dating Cindy.

636
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Dang. Okay, that is a plot twist that I did

637
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 2>not see coming.

638
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of plot twists in this story, trust

639
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:15.160
<v Speaker 1>me on that.

640
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

641
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 1>Now, from that point on, Patrick spent most of his

642
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.359
<v Speaker 1>free time over at Cindy's place. What made all of

643
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:25.400
<v Speaker 1>this weird though, was that, almost like clockwork, the second

644
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Patrick started hanging around, all the creepy calls, threats and

645
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:33.160
<v Speaker 1>weird incidents, they just stopped. It was like whoever was

646
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 1>stalking Cindy didn't want a risk getting caught with Patrick around.

647
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Well that doesn't make sense though it does.

648
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.079
<v Speaker 1>But then right before Halloween, Cindy found something chilling left

649
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.480
<v Speaker 1>on her front porch. There was a ransom style note

650
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:51.160
<v Speaker 1>made by cutting out letters from the newspaper and it

651
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:53.720
<v Speaker 1>simply read quote soon.

652
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Cindy, dot dot dot.

653
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's had doc over. I know, I'm

654
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 1>not sad, cut out and pasted three dots, but now

655
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.160
<v Speaker 1>shake and Cindy called Patrick immediately and asked him to

656
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>move in with her, hoping to have you know him

657
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:13.719
<v Speaker 1>there full time and scaring off whoever was doing this.

658
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Patrick didn't hesitate. He agreed right away. Now. Interestingly enough, though,

659
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Cindy gave a slightly different version of events to her friends.

660
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:27.079
<v Speaker 1>You see, it's a little bit questionable in this situation

661
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.199
<v Speaker 1>on who asked who to move in. See, according to her,

662
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.360
<v Speaker 1>Patrick had actually offered to move in on his own,

663
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.679
<v Speaker 1>saying that he wanted to monitor the house during his

664
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.639
<v Speaker 1>off hours. She insisted that even though they were dating him,

665
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:48.159
<v Speaker 1>staying there was purely for safety and nothing romantic about it. Okay, Interesting,

666
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:52.000
<v Speaker 1>So Patrick's saying that Cindy asked him to move in,

667
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:56.199
<v Speaker 1>and she's saying that Patrick asked to move in. Yeah yeah, Now,

668
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:00.000
<v Speaker 1>not long after Patrick moved in, something strange happened. One evening,

669
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 1>he spotted Roy make Peace sitting alone in his car

670
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.280
<v Speaker 1>parked right near Cindy's house. Oh dang, yeah, Roy is

671
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Cindy's ex husband. Right when Patrick approached him to ask

672
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.800
<v Speaker 1>what the hell he was doing there, Roy casually told

673
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:16.679
<v Speaker 1>him that he was just keeping an eye in the neighborhood,

674
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:20.920
<v Speaker 1>trying to catch the stalker himself. Apparently, he'd even brought

675
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.000
<v Speaker 1>along two guns, a rifle and a handgun with him

676
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>sitting next to him in the car. Now, Patrick couldn't

677
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.679
<v Speaker 1>exactly arrest him for you know, sitting in his car

678
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.239
<v Speaker 1>in a street or something like that. Right, there's no

679
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.400
<v Speaker 1>evidence that Roy was doing anything wrong, so he just

680
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.800
<v Speaker 1>simply told Roy to pack up and go home and leave.

681
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:45.400
<v Speaker 1>So Roy left without argument. Now, this weird situation aside,

682
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.440
<v Speaker 1>there was something almost predictable about this whole situation. As

683
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.119
<v Speaker 1>long as Patrick was physically in the house, the calls

684
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:56.559
<v Speaker 1>and harassment completely stopped. Whoever was behind it seemed to

685
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.400
<v Speaker 1>know exactly when Patrick was around and only target Cindy

686
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:03.119
<v Speaker 1>when she was alone, and then not before long. That's

687
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.599
<v Speaker 1>when the threats started showing up in a new form,

688
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:10.239
<v Speaker 1>handwritten notes, disturbing images. They were all left on her porch,

689
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:12.719
<v Speaker 1>stuck to her windows, or tucked under the windshield wiper

690
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 1>of her car. At one point, someone even cut the

691
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 1>phone line to her house, but every time the police investigated,

692
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.000
<v Speaker 1>they came up empty. No footprints, no fingerprints, no sign

693
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.639
<v Speaker 1>of anyone coming or going. It was like her tormentor

694
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.280
<v Speaker 1>was a ghost. After about a month of living together,

695
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Cindy decided Patrick's present wasn't actually helping as much as

696
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.639
<v Speaker 1>she'd hoped. If anything, the whole situation felt even more tense,

697
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.039
<v Speaker 1>and she was worried his constant presence was making things worse.

698
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 1>They talked it over and Patrick agreed to move out,

699
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.679
<v Speaker 1>but on one condition, only if you could keep a

700
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.880
<v Speaker 1>key to her house just in case of an emergency.

701
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Cindy agreed, and even after he moved out, they kept

702
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:55.440
<v Speaker 1>dating for about.

703
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I was just gonna ask, was that like a

704
00:36:57.719 --> 00:36:58.960
<v Speaker 2>breakup or what?

705
00:36:59.440 --> 00:36:59.599
<v Speaker 1>No?

706
00:36:59.719 --> 00:36:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean?

707
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.320
<v Speaker 1>And Cindy did say to her friends that, you know,

708
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.000
<v Speaker 1>them living together was for a safety thing, not a

709
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:05.760
<v Speaker 1>romantic Yeah.

710
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Right.

711
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So now, what Cindy didn't know was that, starting in

712
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.000
<v Speaker 1>January of nineteen eighty three, the police began secretly wiring

713
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.559
<v Speaker 1>her phone. They tapped her phone line. They hope that

714
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:21.239
<v Speaker 1>if the caller kept up their campaign of terror, if

715
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:23.880
<v Speaker 1>you will, they could finally trace the call and figure

716
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:25.079
<v Speaker 1>out who was behind them.

717
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Now.

718
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, the calls were just a little too short for

719
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:33.639
<v Speaker 1>each each time for the tech to pin down the

720
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.360
<v Speaker 1>exact location. All they could figure out was that the

721
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:39.280
<v Speaker 1>calls were coming from somewhere on the outskirts of Vancouver.

722
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Six months after the nightmare began, things kept getting worse

723
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.760
<v Speaker 1>and took a terrifying new turn. On January twenty seventh,

724
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.679
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty three, Cindy's friend and coworker, Agnes Woodcock, swung

725
00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 1>by her house. See the two of them had made

726
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 1>plans to hang out after work that day, just a

727
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.960
<v Speaker 1>low key evening to relax, catch up sort of thing.

728
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:05.199
<v Speaker 1>But when Agnes knocked, there was no answer. So she

729
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.760
<v Speaker 1>tried knocking on the door again, and still no answer.

730
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:13.280
<v Speaker 1>The house was silent. Figuring Cindy might be in the shower,

731
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:15.880
<v Speaker 1>or maybe had dozed off or forgotten that Agnes was

732
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.360
<v Speaker 1>showing up, whatever, she walked around to the back of

733
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the house to see if there was another way to

734
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.159
<v Speaker 1>get Cindy's attention inside, and that's when she stumbled onto

735
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 1>a terrifying scene. Agnes was horrified by what she found.

736
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 1>She made her way to Cindy's garage, and there on

737
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:35.639
<v Speaker 1>the cold floor was Cindy, crouched down, trembling with a

738
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 1>nylon stalking tightly wrapped around her neck. She was shaking

739
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.679
<v Speaker 1>to her core, and though tears and panic, she told

740
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Agnes exactly what had happened. According to Cindy, she heard

741
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:50.320
<v Speaker 1>a knock at the front door, and when she opened it,

742
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 1>a man forced his way inside and drug her into

743
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.280
<v Speaker 1>the garage, where a second man was already waiting for her. Together,

744
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.639
<v Speaker 1>they held her down and strangled her, both of them

745
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.360
<v Speaker 1>putting their hands around her neck, squeezing until she thought

746
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:07.400
<v Speaker 1>she'd pass out. She also told Agnes, though her memory

747
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.719
<v Speaker 1>was fuzzy, she believed that one of the men had

748
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:12.159
<v Speaker 1>sexually assaulted her with a knife.

749
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:17.800
<v Speaker 2>What the shit? Yeah, Okay, that is a huge escalation.

750
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:21.199
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it. So before they left, the men warned Cindy

751
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 1>and then as she went to the police, they'd track

752
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 1>her sister down, her sister Melanie, and kill her.

753
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

754
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.599
<v Speaker 1>To prove they weren't bluffing, they told Cindy details about

755
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Melanie's life, things only someone who'd been watching her closely

756
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 1>would know.

757
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

758
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.039
<v Speaker 1>When Agnes asked if Cindy could describe the attackers, all

759
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:43.079
<v Speaker 1>she could say was that they were both wearing white sneakers,

760
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.239
<v Speaker 1>and that was the only detail that stuck in her mind. Now.

761
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:51.159
<v Speaker 1>Despite these threats, Agnes didn't hesitate. She called the police

762
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.960
<v Speaker 1>right away. When officers and paramedics arrived, they got Cindy

763
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:57.760
<v Speaker 1>to the hospital for a full examination. But this is

764
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>where things got a little complic For someone who'd just

765
00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:06.000
<v Speaker 1>been overpowered by two grown men, Her injuries didn't really

766
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.679
<v Speaker 1>line up with her story. Her neck was read from

767
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:12.239
<v Speaker 1>a nylon stalking being tied around her neck, but there

768
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.039
<v Speaker 1>were no deep bruises or signs that anyone had used

769
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:19.880
<v Speaker 1>any serious force. We're talking her story was two men strangling.

770
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and they were using their hands at points too,

771
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:25.679
<v Speaker 2>so you think there'd be like handprints or something.

772
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Bruising or something, But most of her injuries were minor

773
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.360
<v Speaker 1>surface level scrapes and some small bruising, barely at all,

774
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:36.079
<v Speaker 1>nothing you'd expect from a violent assault from alleged two attackers.

775
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:40.000
<v Speaker 1>And furthermore, there was no physical evidence to suggest that

776
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 1>she'd been sexually assaulted at all, let alone with a knife.

777
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, with a knife, that is. Oh, I can't

778
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:47.480
<v Speaker 2>even imagine.

779
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The whole thing left investigators scratching their heads. If

780
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 1>someone had gone through all this trouble to terrorize Cindy,

781
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:57.159
<v Speaker 1>why had they left her alive? And if there really

782
00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:59.880
<v Speaker 1>were two men working together, who was the second person

783
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.679
<v Speaker 1>lot alone the first? Right? Nothing about this made any sense.

784
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:09.119
<v Speaker 1>The inconsistencies made police more suspicious than sympathetic. They wanted answers,

785
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.199
<v Speaker 1>and they started to wonder if Cindy wasn't telling them everything.

786
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>To get a better sense of what was going on,

787
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 1>they asked her to see a psychiatrist, hoping a professional

788
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.440
<v Speaker 1>might be able to help shed some light or you know,

789
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:25.320
<v Speaker 1>help her at all. But Cindy flat out refused. She

790
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 1>was terrified that if people found out she was seeing

791
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.679
<v Speaker 1>a psychiatrist, they'd labeled her as unstable, and that was

792
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.239
<v Speaker 1>the last thing she wanted. Now. Remember we are talking

793
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:38.239
<v Speaker 1>about mental health in the eighties. Yeah, Instead, she compromised

794
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:40.760
<v Speaker 1>and agreed to see a general practitioner who was also

795
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:44.199
<v Speaker 1>experienced with counseling. It wasn't exactly what the police wanted,

796
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.960
<v Speaker 1>but it was better than nothing. Now. By this point,

797
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 1>the investigation was at a complete stand still. The more Cindy

798
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:53.000
<v Speaker 1>told them, the less things made sense at all. It

799
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.280
<v Speaker 1>felt like there were so many large gaps in the

800
00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:59.480
<v Speaker 1>story and what was going on, you know, things that

801
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>she want wasn't saying, or maybe couldn't bring herself to say.

802
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Hoping to get some clarity, they asked her to take

803
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:10.880
<v Speaker 1>a polygraph test when the results came back, it confirmed

804
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:15.840
<v Speaker 1>what they started to suspect. Cindy wasn't being completely honest

805
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Speaker 1>with authorities. There were things that she knew that she

806
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 1>just wasn't sharing with them.

807
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, like maybe she knew these people or something. I

808
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:25.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

809
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's where we're gonna end part one.

810
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Okay, what you look pissed? Well kind

811
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of because this case is kind of like, I don't

812
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.800
<v Speaker 2>know how to describe it, but it's just fucking all

813
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:40.480
<v Speaker 2>over the place.

814
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Really, it really is. Honestly, you nailed it. It's fucking

815
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:45.079
<v Speaker 1>all over the place.

816
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's just I don't know. It seems like

817
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.280
<v Speaker 2>it plays with your mind a bit, like I don't know.

818
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's a lot of things where it's like, oh,

819
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.000
<v Speaker 1>I believe Cindy, and then there's a lot of things

820
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.719
<v Speaker 1>where it's like, oh, I don't believe Cindy. So you're

821
00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:01.119
<v Speaker 1>very at least I am very contrary adding myself and

822
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.400
<v Speaker 1>my beliefs and my thoughts and what I want to

823
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:06.559
<v Speaker 1>say is true and false because.

824
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm left sitting here just being what the fuck

825
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing, like what the fuck's happened here? And

826
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:14.639
<v Speaker 2>now I have to fucking wait and tell Friday to

827
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:15.079
<v Speaker 2>find out.

828
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I will promise you that what the fuck feeling will

829
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:24.079
<v Speaker 1>stay even to the end. Oh gosh, okay, I promise you.

830
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Huh wow.

831
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:29.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, it's just sitting here listening to this

832
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:34.079
<v Speaker 2>It's the world is scary because I don't know. It

833
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.440
<v Speaker 2>also just makes you uneasy too, because I don't know,

834
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:38.960
<v Speaker 2>people are kind of fucked up.

835
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:41.960
<v Speaker 1>I like, how you just you're so angry with this

836
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:44.159
<v Speaker 1>case that you get halfway through a sentence and you're like,

837
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:48.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, well.

838
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.519
<v Speaker 2>I know. I even lately have been watching these shows

839
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.000
<v Speaker 2>on Netflix too that I think I need to watch

840
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.960
<v Speaker 2>something that's just I don't know, gives you a sense

841
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.599
<v Speaker 2>that human nature or humans are not terrible people. Yeah, basically,

842
00:44:03.639 --> 00:44:05.880
<v Speaker 2>because right now I'm just like, oh my god, these

843
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.480
<v Speaker 2>two bastards are doing this to her, and I'm just, yeah,

844
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:09.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of on Cindy side.

845
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.559
<v Speaker 1>Actually, I feel like maybe we should watch some Disney movies.

846
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:12.920
<v Speaker 1>How's that?

847
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 2>M hmm.

848
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Get a little bit more cheer going on. Yeah, Well,

849
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.679
<v Speaker 1>thank you guys for being here. Hopefully that you enjoyed this,

850
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.119
<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk to you in Part two. Where Yeah,

851
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:24.519
<v Speaker 1>we go through the rest of this and wrap up

852
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.800
<v Speaker 1>the case. And trust me when I say, there is

853
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 1>a lot to this and that's what the fuck feeling

854
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:33.760
<v Speaker 1>will be there through it all. But I still hope

855
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:34.440
<v Speaker 1>you're enjoying this.

856
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Nichole's not no I am. I'm just like I have

857
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to go through my day now like this, wondering what

858
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:42.920
<v Speaker 2>the hell I'm going to be testing Ben, I'll find

859
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 2>out the deeps. I'll post them on Instagram, just kidding,

860
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 2>just kidding.

861
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>You will not find out the deats, but I can

862
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:50.559
<v Speaker 1>tell you, guys, you can find out the deats on

863
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 1>many more things about our show and the description of

864
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.679
<v Speaker 1>this podcast, including social media, website, you name it. It's

865
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:57.800
<v Speaker 1>all down there. You can sign up for Patreon there.

866
00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Go ahead check it out, click on the links, give

867
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.679
<v Speaker 1>us a review. We appreciate it all. We're an indie

868
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.840
<v Speaker 1>podcast doing our thing. We can't be doing it without

869
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.000
<v Speaker 1>your support, so thank you so much.

870
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:08.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we appreciate you

871
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.639
<v Speaker 1>And until next time, stay wicked.