Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty nine, the body of a Canadian nurse
Speaker 1: was found bound and strangled outside of Vancouver, capping off
Speaker 1: nearly seven years of terrifying harassment and stalking. Despite over
Speaker 1: one hundred reported incidents, including threatening phone calls, break ins,
Speaker 1: and physical attacks, the police found no evidence of the
Speaker 1: alleged stalker. Now to this day, debates ray je On
Speaker 1: over whether the victim was truly being stalked and tormented,
Speaker 1: where if her death was the result of her own hand,
Speaker 1: making her case one of Canada's most chilling mysteries yet.
Speaker 1: This is the story of Cindy James.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicketing Rim,
Speaker 2: a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following I have material intended audience.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 1: You know, I really feel like we have just nailed
Speaker 1: our instros at this point, like like we have the
Speaker 1: same cadence and voice and everything. Like my name's Ben.
Speaker 1: Then you do your thing, go for it. You are
Speaker 1: way too tired this morning.
Speaker 2: I like, what the fuck doing I don't care. You
Speaker 2: just did it like I did. You start over. My
Speaker 2: name's ben' nicle and you're listening to Wicked and Graham.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast. It was different because we're like smiling
Speaker 1: and laughing on that one.
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, right, Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I honestly think you have like nailed it even more
Speaker 1: than me. You're like exactly the same every time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's good. There was a problem though,
Speaker 2: because I would like a few months ago, where I
Speaker 2: would start it with or something like oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: Nicole or something, and then you were like, you got
Speaker 2: to stop this annoying.
Speaker 1: I actually I haven't noticed you might still be doing it.
Speaker 2: Oh shit. I maybe I I shouldn't have pointed it.
Speaker 1: Out because I forgot all about it, but I noticed
Speaker 1: it a couple of times. Yeah, you were like, I'm Nicole.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I watched this these Instagram stories of
Speaker 2: this this person like doing outfit try on Sure's at
Speaker 2: a clothing store, and everyone that she starts with she's
Speaker 2: does that. Oh no, And so if you're like going
Speaker 2: through really quick, it's like like time and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't. I guess no one's ever pointed that out
Speaker 2: to her. Maybe hey, drive me nuts nuts.
Speaker 1: For show, But anyways, yeah, I just wanted to point
Speaker 1: that out. I thought that was kind of cool. I
Speaker 1: also wanted to point out that we have some pretty
Speaker 1: cool people over on Patreon supporting our show, including Chandra Vincent,
Speaker 1: Julie Triplett, Jennifer Hoague. I might have said your last
Speaker 1: name wrong, sorry if I did, Stephanie Cody, Marie Sar,
Speaker 1: Ultimate Badass Vanilla Killa, and Layla Shindl Decker. So thank
Speaker 1: you very much for supporting us over there.
Speaker 2: It's quite a list right right on.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Ultimate Badass Vanilla Killa is your your
Speaker 1: given name legal name?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is it on your driver's license? Like, I'm curious, you know, it.
Speaker 2: Could be, you know, but that just made me think
Speaker 2: of like names that are on driver's license, and I
Speaker 2: thought of mclovin.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, gotta love mclovin. But yeah, shout out to
Speaker 1: you guys. Thank you for signing up over on Patreon.
Speaker 1: If you guys want to sign up too, you can
Speaker 1: go ahead and check out the link and the description
Speaker 1: of this podcast. You get exclusive content behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: It's been a little bit quiet recently because we've been
Speaker 1: doing a bit of behind the scenes rehaul. We've been signing.
Speaker 1: We signed a new contract heading over to a new platform.
Speaker 1: We joined the Belief Believe.
Speaker 2: Network hosting platform hosting platform.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, it's been a little bit of
Speaker 1: chaos behind the scenes, a little bit quiet, but everything
Speaker 1: is lining up. We're happy where we are. It's great
Speaker 1: people that we're working with. As far as you guys
Speaker 1: are concerned, there should be pretty much no changes with
Speaker 1: the show. It's just basically administrative stuff, to put it
Speaker 1: that way, but we're super super happy. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to throw that out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there was a little bit of a time
Speaker 2: where there weren't ads or whatever on the podcast, so
Speaker 2: that would be probably the only thing you would have noticed,
Speaker 2: really pretty much anbition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the little chime or something like
Speaker 1: that might be different when the ads play or whatever,
Speaker 1: but that's that's basically it. That's all you'll notice. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we should get into this case though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, let's do it, okay.
Speaker 1: So this is part one of the story of Cindy James,
Speaker 1: So there will be a part two to this one.
Speaker 1: This one it's a little in depth, there's a lot
Speaker 1: to it, So buckley seat belts. It's going to be
Speaker 1: a wild ride and and you're not going to get
Speaker 1: the conclusion until next well this next episode, which will
Speaker 1: be in a few days.
Speaker 2: We haven't done a two parter for.
Speaker 1: A while, we haven't done it part, so we are
Speaker 1: due for one. So either buckle your seatbelts get ready
Speaker 1: for it. Or hey, maybe you're gonna wait for the
Speaker 1: next episode to come out and you'll binge the two together.
Speaker 1: Whatever the case, get ready for it, because this is
Speaker 1: one hell of a story. So Cindy Elizabeth Hack was
Speaker 1: born on June twelfth, nineteen forty four, in Oliver, Oliver,
Speaker 1: British Columbia. She was born to her parents, Matilda and
Speaker 1: Auto Hack. She was one of six kids, and growing
Speaker 1: up back then was a whole it was a whole
Speaker 1: different world. Matilda and Auto were, you're pretty old school.
Speaker 1: They believe kids should be quiet, behave, and not make
Speaker 1: a whole lot of fuss. Auto in particular, was tough
Speaker 1: as nails. He if he was in a bad mood,
Speaker 1: it was usually kind of the kids who ended up
Speaker 1: receiving the bad end of it. And his way of
Speaker 1: handling discipline, well, let's just say it was not exactly gentle.
Speaker 1: In his mind, if something was wrong, he could just
Speaker 1: mack it out. Of you sort of things. Oh yeah, now,
Speaker 1: I don't think it was like abusive sort of thing.
Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, back in that time, like
Speaker 1: spanking your kids sort of thing, or give you a
Speaker 1: smack of size her.
Speaker 2: Head kind of more acceptable. I guess you could say.
Speaker 1: It was more accepted at the time. Not to say
Speaker 1: it's right or not abuse, but just kind of giving
Speaker 1: you a frame of reference. Now. From a young age,
Speaker 1: Cindy figured out the safest bet was to stay on
Speaker 1: Auto's good side, though that was a lot easier said
Speaker 1: than done. She threw herself into her school work and chores,
Speaker 1: always hoping if she did well enough, Auto might actually
Speaker 1: be proud of her. Whenever she got even a sliver
Speaker 1: of attention from him, she'd light up and go on
Speaker 1: about her latest accomplishments, her grades, or how much her
Speaker 1: teachers liked her, or how hard she was working in school,
Speaker 1: But compliments or praise from anyone besides Cindy herself were
Speaker 1: few and far between. After school, Cindy made up her
Speaker 1: mind she was going to become a nurse. Helping people
Speaker 1: had always come naturally to her, and she figured nursing
Speaker 1: was the perfect way to do that. School was kind
Speaker 1: of her safe place, so she felt right at home
Speaker 1: in her nursing program. Every time she checked in with
Speaker 1: her family, she made sure to mention how well things
Speaker 1: were going. Now. At some point, her whole family ended
Speaker 1: up moving to France, leaving Cindy on her own for
Speaker 1: the first time in her life. She kept in touch,
Speaker 1: and so did they. They were writing letters whenever they
Speaker 1: could write, and of course visiting for the holidays as well.
Speaker 1: But even with these letters and the occasional visits, Cindy
Speaker 1: often talked about how lonely she felt during that time,
Speaker 1: at least until she met a guy who would become
Speaker 1: her very first fiance. Oh yeah, getting a little romantic
Speaker 1: up in this house. So she met this guy while
Speaker 1: working at the hospital. Allegedly he was a doctor working
Speaker 1: at the hospital as well. So she's doing her training
Speaker 1: shifts and stuff, you know, and they kind of cross paths,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how it ignited. Now, they spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time working together, and before long he
Speaker 1: asked her out. Things moved fast after that, and they
Speaker 1: fell hard for each other and soon they were basically inseparable.
Speaker 1: Couldn't stop gushing about him, you know, especially in these letters.
Speaker 1: As she's writing home, she told her parents how he
Speaker 1: made her feel special, how he treated her like a queen,
Speaker 1: and how he'd be in the perfect husband and of
Speaker 1: course would be the perfect father someday. Sorry I should
Speaker 1: say perfect husband eventually because he's not.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, I was like, I miss the wedding.
Speaker 1: No, my apologies. I worded that weird, how he's going
Speaker 1: to be the perfect husband and father someday. Now. Her
Speaker 1: family naturally wanted to know more about this guy, simple
Speaker 1: things like you know what's his name, you know what's
Speaker 1: he like, and all this sort of stuff, But Cindy
Speaker 1: always seemed to dodge those questions. Instead, she'd steer the
Speaker 1: conversation back to you know, how perfect he was, and
Speaker 1: how he'd treated her, and how he'd already popped the question.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it is okay. For some reason, I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: is this made up or something? Uh? Bear with me, okay,
Speaker 2: because but at first I was thinking, okay, that's how
Speaker 2: she sort of always talked to her family, like wants
Speaker 2: to make them think she's like so good and looking
Speaker 2: for praise and stuff but not really getting it. But
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there I'm just like, Okay, what's
Speaker 2: going on here?
Speaker 1: There are a lot of questions around this individual. Let's
Speaker 1: put it that way. Well, we're going through it right now. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this was huge news, this whole like pop the
Speaker 1: question being engaged sort of thing, obviously. And while some
Speaker 1: of Cindy's relatives were you know, over the moon for her,
Speaker 1: Matilda and Auto couldn't help but feel like something was off.
Speaker 1: Why hadn't this guy, whoever he was, tried to reach
Speaker 1: out to them, even just to introduce himself. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe he should say hello to his future in laws
Speaker 1: or maybe you know, ask for their blessing, because we
Speaker 1: are talking about you know, a little bit older school
Speaker 1: type people here, right, And why was Cindy being so
Speaker 1: weirdly vague whenever asked these basic questions. It was strange,
Speaker 1: But with them living so far away, they didn't really
Speaker 1: want to push too hard or ask too much themselves.
Speaker 1: So still they made it clear that they'd really loved
Speaker 1: to meet him, ideally in person, of course. Then eventually,
Speaker 1: you know, they invited him to come along for the
Speaker 1: holidays with Cindy so they could all, you know, get
Speaker 1: to know each other. But every time they brought this up,
Speaker 1: Cindy again had some sort of diversion from the conversation,
Speaker 1: or even some excuse. She said, in this case that
Speaker 1: he was too swamped at work where he was tied
Speaker 1: up with his own family, he wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: make the holidays. Even though her family never got to
Speaker 1: meet him. Cindy assured them that, you know, once they
Speaker 1: were married, they'd figure out a way to split holidays
Speaker 1: between both sides. She promised that it no matter how busy
Speaker 1: life got, they would make it work eventually.
Speaker 2: Well, they are busy people, right, so I mean it
Speaker 2: makes sense that I'm it's journey right over there, so
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Now. Unfortunately, that promise never had a chance to come true.
Speaker 1: As the holidays crept closer, Cindy and her fiance were
Speaker 1: unfortunately hit with devastating news. What was supposed to be
Speaker 1: just a standard check up at the doctor's office turned
Speaker 1: into a nightmare. See, her fiance was diagnosed with a
Speaker 1: rare and aggressive form of cancer. The doctor told him
Speaker 1: he only had a few months left at best.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: Cindy was heartbroken, but she refused to give up. She
Speaker 1: told him that, you know, in her mind, they're already
Speaker 1: married and in every way. This is like, this is
Speaker 1: how it matters. Right. We're together, we're basically married. She's
Speaker 1: going to be there for him through better and through worse,
Speaker 1: just like a married couple should be.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she was determined to stick by a side no
Speaker 1: matter how rough the road ahead was going to be,
Speaker 1: But her fiance didn't see it the same way as
Speaker 1: she did. After the diagnosis, the two of them decided
Speaker 1: to go ahead with a ski trip that they had
Speaker 1: already booked. It was supposed to be a fun little
Speaker 1: getaway before the wedding, you know, a chance to relax,
Speaker 1: just be together. Now it felt more like a final escape. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This trip, however, changed from what it was what it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be. Instead, it ended in tragedy. Cindy's
Speaker 1: fiance took his own life, leaving a note that said
Speaker 1: he couldn't stand the thought of her watching him waste away.
Speaker 1: He wanted her to remember him as the man she
Speaker 1: fell in love with, full of life, strong and completely
Speaker 1: in love with her.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, that's like so sad, right.
Speaker 1: But here's where things get strange. No one could ever
Speaker 1: find a single shred of evidence that this fiance ever existed.
Speaker 1: No records, no obituaries, oh nothing. There were no reports
Speaker 1: of a man taking his life at that ski trip.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: In fact, there wasn't any concrete evidence Cindy was ever
Speaker 1: engaged at all. The only trace of him was in
Speaker 1: the letters to her family, and even in those the
Speaker 1: details were all over the place, never quite adding up
Speaker 1: and very vague.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this man might have been made up and
Speaker 2: then she decided that she had enough of this made
Speaker 2: up story, and then he had got cancer and then
Speaker 2: took his own life.
Speaker 1: For It's hard to say, but as far as evidence goes,
Speaker 1: it seems that he was never real and he could
Speaker 1: have very well been made up.
Speaker 2: And he was a doctor, right, like she met him
Speaker 2: through the hospital or something.
Speaker 1: Met him through the hospital, and as far as I
Speaker 1: can find, he was supposedly a doctor.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So you just I don't know, you think
Speaker 2: that would there would be evidence of this or or
Speaker 2: something you know, of his story out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, coworkers maybe being able to you know, confirm that. Yeah, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I know the dude his name was Stephen.
Speaker 1: Stephen was the man she was dating and he died
Speaker 1: and like totally get it, Like there should be some
Speaker 1: links somewhere pointing to the existence of this individual. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but as far as anyone can see, there's nothing.
Speaker 2: Well, and because what time frame was this in? Sorry,
Speaker 2: what do you mean?
Speaker 1: What time? Like?
Speaker 2: How old of a case is this? I forget the year?
Speaker 1: This is happening in the eighties, I believe.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I mean still there because we kind
Speaker 2: of think how everything is readily available to us now,
Speaker 2: but then back then it isn't as much, right, So
Speaker 2: I feel like something like that could potentially slip through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it is.
Speaker 2: There's a possibility.
Speaker 1: It is possible, but it's not the most probable, let's
Speaker 1: put it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, whether that mystery fiance ever actually existed or not,
Speaker 1: we don't know. But Cindy eventually moved on with her
Speaker 1: life one way or another, and eventually she crossed paths
Speaker 1: with a man named Roy make Peace, a psychiatrist originally
Speaker 1: from South Africa. Now Roy did in fact exist. Roy
Speaker 1: was thirty nine when he met Cindy, which put them
Speaker 1: nearly two decades apart in age. So she was about
Speaker 1: twenty ish and he was like thirty nine ish, right,
Speaker 1: But the gap, it didn't really sit well with her family.
Speaker 1: Right off the bat, they felt like Roy was taking
Speaker 1: advantage of how trusting and inexperienced Cindy was in life.
Speaker 1: To them, it seemed like he was drawn in by
Speaker 1: her youth and good looks, and they worried that she
Speaker 1: was just a little bit too naive to see it.
Speaker 1: But as time passed on, they spent more and more
Speaker 1: time around Roy and Cindy together and their opinions softened
Speaker 1: on him a little bit. The two seemed to actually
Speaker 1: balance each other out, at least on the surface, and
Speaker 1: some of those initial worries they started to fade. That's
Speaker 1: why it was such a shock when after sixteen years
Speaker 1: of marriage, Cindy dropped a bombshell. She told her family
Speaker 1: she was leaving Roy, and not just because they'd grown apart,
Speaker 1: but because that she had been abused pretty much from
Speaker 1: the start of the relationship. Boy. Yeah, So to clarify,
Speaker 1: going back a little bit, the story takes place in
Speaker 1: the eighties, yes, but you have to look at like
Speaker 1: the sixteen years, so it was like probably early seventies,
Speaker 1: maybe late sixties when she supposedly.
Speaker 2: Met that Oh okay, right, doctor dudeen.
Speaker 1: Ski trip thing right now? According to Cindy, it began
Speaker 1: with small things in the relationship with Roy, emotional games.
Speaker 1: For example, if she didn't go along with something Roy wanted,
Speaker 1: he'd give her the cold shoulder for days. One big
Speaker 1: point of content was Roy's love of sailing. Cindy, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, was absolutely terrified of water, convinced she'd
Speaker 1: drowned if she ever ended up overboard, but Roy didn't
Speaker 1: really care. He wanted her to come with him anyways,
Speaker 1: and when she said no, he'd freeze her out completely,
Speaker 1: treating her like she didn't exist, just ignoring her outright.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, when she has an like, an actual fear,
Speaker 2: that's not cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, as the years went on in this relationship,
Speaker 1: Cindy said, the emotional manipulation turned into more physical. She
Speaker 1: told her family that Roy would lash out and hit
Speaker 1: her when he did whenever she did something wrong or
Speaker 1: something that he didn't approve of. There was even one
Speaker 1: story where she claimed he'd thrown her down the stair,
Speaker 1: leaving her with black eyes and she had to hide
Speaker 1: it under her makeup. What made it all harder to believe,
Speaker 1: at least for the people around her, was that no
Speaker 1: one had ever seen any clear evidence of that abuse.
Speaker 1: Her coworkers, her friends, even her own family had never
Speaker 1: noticed bruises or any obvious signs that something was wrong. Now,
Speaker 1: but of course that didn't mean that it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: People hide that stuff all the time, so that's definitely
Speaker 1: not an indication that it's not happening right now. En
Speaker 1: Roy was asked about all of this, he did admit that, yeah,
Speaker 1: there were two separate times in their entire marriage over
Speaker 1: the course of sixteen years, where he did slap Cindy
Speaker 1: during arguments and incidents. He said, yeah, he crossed the
Speaker 1: line these two times and probably of course regretted it
Speaker 1: even but he did completely deny any kind of violent
Speaker 1: outside of that, or any sort of controlling or any
Speaker 1: sort of abuse outside of that.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's admitting to his wrongs. I guess you can.
Speaker 1: Say he did admit that twice he struck her, but
Speaker 1: there was no other things like throwing her down the stairs,
Speaker 1: for example. Yeah, so not to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: striking her two times.
Speaker 2: Is is is? Okay? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so outside of those incidents, he's saying there was
Speaker 1: no violent or physical abuse.
Speaker 2: That it hadn't escalated to the point where he's throwing
Speaker 2: her down the stairs.
Speaker 1: Correct now. Even though her family was caught off guard
Speaker 1: by Cindy's decision to leave roy they were one hundred
Speaker 1: percent behind her to do so, and they weren't too
Speaker 1: worried about her figuring out her life on her own either.
Speaker 1: By then, Cindy had built a solid career as a nurse,
Speaker 1: and everyone knew her as very smart, very capable, and
Speaker 1: dedicated to her job. She had a great reputation, and
Speaker 1: her friends and family made it very crystal clear that
Speaker 1: if she ever needed anything, they would be there in
Speaker 1: a heartbeat for her. After for about four months of
Speaker 1: the breakup, so Cindy and Royer now split up. In
Speaker 1: September of nineteen eighty two, Cindy sat down with her
Speaker 1: family and dropped some unsettling news. She was convinced someone
Speaker 1: was stalking her. See over the last few weeks, she
Speaker 1: said she'd spotted a man, always dressed head to toe
Speaker 1: in black, sneaking around her property. When her family asked
Speaker 1: if she could describe this man who was sneaking around
Speaker 1: her property, Cindy was pretty vague. She was sure that
Speaker 1: it was a man. But that was about all she
Speaker 1: could say then, not even just two weeks later, things
Speaker 1: escalated from there. The man clad in black wasn't just
Speaker 1: lurking outside anymore. The phone calls started. Cindy said. The
Speaker 1: calls were terrifying, graphic and violent and downright disturbing. The
Speaker 1: caller didn't just threaten her, he described in vivid, horrifying details,
Speaker 1: exactly what he wanted to do to her. Oh, she
Speaker 1: said that she can even hear him getting off while
Speaker 1: on the phone.
Speaker 2: That's some nasty shit, yeah.
Speaker 1: Which left her feeling completely violated and unsure what to
Speaker 1: do next. At first, she thought maybe it was some
Speaker 1: sick teenager pulling a twisted prank, right, something completely tasteless,
Speaker 1: just trying to freak her out for the laughs. But
Speaker 1: as the calls kept going, she got, you know, the
Speaker 1: clearer idea that this was not just some dumb kid.
Speaker 1: The threats got weirder and more personal, like this person
Speaker 1: was actually watching her, knew her routines, her schedules, maybe
Speaker 1: even what she was wearing.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was just going to say new things about her.
Speaker 1: So yeah, things just spiraled, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: On October twelfth, nineteen eighty two, about a month after
Speaker 1: she first spotted this prowler, Cindy picked up the phone
Speaker 1: and heard that same chilling voice on the other end.
Speaker 1: In a low, almost whispered tone, the caller told her
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you one night soon, and she
Speaker 1: didn't stick around to hear how that sentence ended.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I was like I was on the edge.
Speaker 2: Might see end end.
Speaker 1: She immediately slammed the phone down, heart racing. After weeks
Speaker 1: of this, Cindy finally decided enough was enough. She called
Speaker 1: the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the RCMP, to report everything
Speaker 1: the prowler, you know, the disgusting phone calls, the constant
Speaker 1: feeling that someone was watching her. She needed to tell them.
Speaker 1: The officers took her very seriously.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: They could tell how shaken she was and you know,
Speaker 1: said that they were definitely concerned. So they suggested that
Speaker 1: she start keeping track of every single call that she got,
Speaker 1: you know, even the ones that seemed normal, right down
Speaker 1: the times. What they said, if the number showed up,
Speaker 1: anything that she could remember anything at all. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe the caller is describing what she's wearing, you know,
Speaker 1: writ down that the caller knew these things, whatever it was,
Speaker 1: any detail. The hope was that maybe with enough records
Speaker 1: they could find some kind of pattern or clue or
Speaker 1: someone behind this right now. Cindy also asked if there's
Speaker 1: any way that they could send an officer to stay
Speaker 1: with her for a while, just in case this guy
Speaker 1: called or showed up again right now. Unfortunately, the police
Speaker 1: told her that that wasn't an option. There was no
Speaker 1: evidence right now. There was just her word that there's
Speaker 1: something going on. So there's no proof, no recordings, no witnesses, nothing,
Speaker 1: and they couldn't justify assigning someone to her house. It's
Speaker 1: just not how it works right now. They weren't dismissing her,
Speaker 1: but their hands were kind of tied now. The lack
Speaker 1: of any real action from the RCMP left Cindy feeling
Speaker 1: pretty isolated and completely alone and honestly kind of embarrassed
Speaker 1: at the same time, like maybe she was overreacting, for example.
Speaker 1: But that feeling didn't last long. See, not long after
Speaker 1: the officers left her home, her phone rang again. The
Speaker 1: second it started ringing, her stomach dropped immediately. If this
Speaker 1: creep had been watching her like she suspected, then they
Speaker 1: probably saw the police leave and they knew she was alone.
Speaker 1: Her hand shook as she picked up the phone, and
Speaker 1: on the other end was a voice that said, I'll
Speaker 1: get you.
Speaker 2: That's it, just I'll get you. Okay. Here I thought
Speaker 2: they were going to say something about the police.
Speaker 1: But well, the next day the same voice called back,
Speaker 1: the same voice that had been calling, and this time
Speaker 1: it was even worse, and they said, so you think
Speaker 1: calling the police will keep you safe? You wait, I've
Speaker 1: got my zipper open. Ugh, I'm talking to my throbbing
Speaker 1: dot dot.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, this is so unsettling. What a nasty, nasty man.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, Cindy again didn't wait for the finish of
Speaker 1: that sentence as she dropped the phone down on its receiver,
Speaker 1: and that was that, yes, on the receiver. We are
Speaker 1: not talking about cell phones.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm almost surprised that she picks up the phone.
Speaker 2: I feel like, well, I mean, I don't ever pick
Speaker 2: up my phone, like it rang this morning and You're like,
Speaker 2: you have a call, and I'm like, cool.
Speaker 1: Well, honestly, it wasn't even ringing. It's on dudelster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always usually just I don't know what like silent. Well, no,
Speaker 2: not the calls so oh, the calls are always usually
Speaker 2: to someone like trying.
Speaker 1: To oh, telemarketers or scammers and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the yeah, but she's keeping answering her phone.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I guess she does have to document
Speaker 2: this and stuff for the police exactly.
Speaker 1: So she was shaking and she grabbed a notepad, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what she did. She documented this phone call,
Speaker 1: diding exactly what the police told her. She wrote down everything,
Speaker 1: the time, exact words, which is how we can quote it,
Speaker 1: even how the voice sounded. She was determined to give
Speaker 1: them something they could actually work with, you know, next
Speaker 1: time that she called for help. Right, But whoever this was,
Speaker 1: they weren't done. They were just getting warmed up. Two
Speaker 1: days after her first call to the RCMPI S Sindy
Speaker 1: phoned them again. This time someone had been right outside
Speaker 1: her house. She swore she heard footsteps on her and
Speaker 1: when she went out to go check, she found her
Speaker 1: porch lights were smashed. Oh geez, Now, the porch lights
Speaker 1: being smashed, to me, that means, you know, if she's
Speaker 1: entering or exiting her house at night, it's dark, it's dark. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe concealing an attack, So that's ominous in itself.
Speaker 1: The police came back and they did a thorough check
Speaker 1: of the area. They checked her house, her yard, even
Speaker 1: up and down the street in the neighborhood. They didn't
Speaker 1: find a thing, no footprints, no broken glass leading anywhere,
Speaker 1: no shadowy figure hiding nearby. It was like, whoever did
Speaker 1: this just disappeared into thin air. Then the very next
Speaker 1: day things escalated again. Cindy called the police in a
Speaker 1: full panic, saying someone had just thrown a rock straight
Speaker 1: through her window, and not just that, she was convinced
Speaker 1: someone had actually been inside her house. When officers showed up,
Speaker 1: they found Cindy practically shaking out of her skin in hysteria.
Speaker 1: It was clear she was terrified, and honestly, they couldn't
Speaker 1: blame her. Ever was messing with her was getting bolder
Speaker 1: by the day, and it was obvious Cindy felt like
Speaker 1: she was running at a time. Once again, the officer
Speaker 1: searched everywhere, the house, the yard, the street, neighborhood, and
Speaker 1: once again there was nothing, no sign of anyone hanging
Speaker 1: around nothing. Whoever was stalking Cindy was either a ghost
Speaker 1: or they were blending in so well with the neighborhood
Speaker 1: that they might have just been hiding and right in
Speaker 1: plain sight. Now I'm not accusing anyone by saying this,
Speaker 1: but for example, it was the neighbor. It was, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the officers, something like that, someone who can
Speaker 1: hide in plain sight. And like when a phone call
Speaker 1: comes in or an officer comes in, it's like the
Speaker 1: neighbor's caught in the yard and it's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm just like grabbing a piece of garbage off the lawn. Okay,
Speaker 1: something like that for example, you know what I mean. Now,
Speaker 1: that same week, just when Cindy thought things couldn't get
Speaker 1: any worse, she went to climb into bed at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, she pulled back the covers and froze.
Speaker 1: See when she pulled back those covers in her blankets,
Speaker 1: she found her pillow sliced wide open with a knife.
Speaker 1: The realization hit her like a punch in the gut.
Speaker 1: Whoever was tormenting her had just been watching. Hadn't just
Speaker 1: been watching from a distance. They'd been inside the house
Speaker 1: confirmed now, and maybe even while she was inside the
Speaker 1: house too.
Speaker 2: Oh my, oh, okay, that's too much. That is so alarming.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how you could could carry on, really,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Cindy was shaking in fear, and of course called the police.
Speaker 1: They showed up took her statement, but with everything piled up,
Speaker 1: one of the officers, Constable Patrick McBride with the RCMP,
Speaker 1: he decided he was going to take a bit more action.
Speaker 1: He started digging into her case a bit more seriously. Now,
Speaker 1: Patrick couldn't ignore the timing. Cindy had just ended a
Speaker 1: nearly twenty year marriage right sixteen years, and now she
Speaker 1: was living alone for the first time in ages. That
Speaker 1: kind of life change can leave someone very vulnerable and
Speaker 1: in Patrick's mind, and it seemed pretty likely that her
Speaker 1: ex husband might have something to do with all of this. Okay, now,
Speaker 1: Cindy shut that theory down real fast. She told Constable
Speaker 1: Patrick that she didn't believe Roy would ever do something
Speaker 1: like this. According to her, Roy was way too busy
Speaker 1: with work to be sneaking around her house. And she
Speaker 1: also said that she and Roy were actually on pretty
Speaker 1: decent terms and that he would never hurt her.
Speaker 2: Okay, but also, I'm just gonna play devil's advocate. As
Speaker 2: you say, being in a relationship takes a lot, like
Speaker 2: a long a lot of your time, and so all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, if you're not in a relationship, I
Speaker 2: feel like you would have so much spare time that
Speaker 2: he may have time to do this.
Speaker 1: That's true, That's very true. Now, one thing is clear, though,
Speaker 1: what she told officers, being you know, they're in good
Speaker 1: terms and that he would never hurt her, it didn't
Speaker 1: line up with her story she told friends and family
Speaker 1: about her abuse during the marriage. Right Still, though, Cindy
Speaker 1: insisted Roy was not a threat. In fact, she even
Speaker 1: said that she called Roy before she contacted the police
Speaker 1: about these events, and he'd actually been the one to
Speaker 1: tell her that she needed to report everything to the
Speaker 1: authorities and get some protection. So that doesn't exactly screamed guilt.
Speaker 1: If Roy was the one behind all this, why would
Speaker 1: he encourage her to get the comps involved?
Speaker 2: Right? Well, I mean not necessarily. I feel like people
Speaker 2: sometimes it's like covering your own book, right.
Speaker 1: True, But at one point, like he wants her to
Speaker 1: be alone and vulnerable, right, getting the police involved is
Speaker 1: going to make that harder. So most likely, not for sure,
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, but Devil's advocate. Most likely
Speaker 1: he wouldn't want that to be the case, you know,
Speaker 1: m hm. So, hoping to get some outside perspective, Constable
Speaker 1: Patrick decided to check with the people living next door
Speaker 1: to Cindy. Maybe someone had seen something. Turned out, one
Speaker 1: of the neighbors they had. They told Patrick they'd noticed
Speaker 1: a man hanging around outside these places more than once,
Speaker 1: sometimes during the day, sometimes late at night. The neighbor
Speaker 1: even saw him walking right through Cindy's front gate once. Now,
Speaker 1: at the time, they figured this was just some new
Speaker 1: boyfriend or something. After all, she's nearly single, right, so
Speaker 1: they didn't think much of it. When the neighbor was
Speaker 1: shown a photo of Roy, they didn't hesitate to say
Speaker 1: that they were one hundred percent sure that that man
Speaker 1: that they seen was not Roy.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I thought you were going to go the
Speaker 2: other way with that one, but that's.
Speaker 1: Why I lingered on the side. So drug it on
Speaker 1: a bit to build that suspense and it worked, clearly did.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they confirmed that the man in that they
Speaker 1: had seen lurking around was not Roy, not the same
Speaker 1: guy in the photo that they the RCMP showed. Now,
Speaker 1: one more piece of the puzzle came from inside Cindy's
Speaker 1: house itself. She had been renting out her basement to
Speaker 1: a couple of tenants to help cover her bills. So
Speaker 1: Patrick talked to them too. Both of them said they'd
Speaker 1: occasionally heard noises upstairs when Cindy should have been at work, footsteps,
Speaker 1: doors opening, that kind of thing. Now, at the time,
Speaker 1: they figured maybe Cindy would have just you know, come
Speaker 1: home early from work whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, people always just make excuses up for things, right,
Speaker 2: because I mean that's human nature.
Speaker 1: So well exactly, And it's not like these people know
Speaker 1: Cindy's schedule, or probably don't know Cindy's schedule exactly.
Speaker 2: Maybe she's sick and home or something.
Speaker 1: Right, or swap shifts with someone else, you know. I'm
Speaker 1: sure nurses probably do that because they got quite a
Speaker 1: radic schedules off, right, So I would imagine that there
Speaker 1: is some shifts swapping with them. I don't think that
Speaker 1: would be uncommon. But now with everything happening, they were
Speaker 1: starting to wonder if that person or footsteps or doors
Speaker 1: closing that they were hearing was actually, you know, the
Speaker 1: person who was tormenting Cindy. Now, Constable Patrick wasn't just
Speaker 1: interested in Cindy's case. See, it quickly became personal for him.
Speaker 1: Something about her situation really struck him, and after just
Speaker 1: a couple of days in the case, he took it
Speaker 1: upon himself to show up at her house with a
Speaker 1: toolbox in hand, and he installed the dead bolts on
Speaker 1: all of her trying to give her at least some
Speaker 1: peace of mind.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that like warms my heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also promised he'd stop by every day to
Speaker 1: check in, just to make sure she was okay. Now,
Speaker 1: this kind of personal involvement is not exactly standard police procedure,
Speaker 1: but Patrick was already feeling a pull towards Sindry, that
Speaker 1: Cindy that went beyond just doing his job. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so he was starting to, you know, get some feelings
Speaker 1: for her, right, okay, Yeah, So that attachment, that feeling,
Speaker 1: of course, eventually spilled into his personal life. His marriage,
Speaker 1: for example, would come to an end, and soon after
Speaker 1: that he and Cindy officially started dating.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, so this guy was even married.
Speaker 1: He was married, correct?
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: I'm unsure if he left his wife for Cindy, or
Speaker 1: if the attention he was giving Cindy within the case
Speaker 1: or other things caused trouble in the marriage for an
Speaker 1: amicable split up, but one way or another, the marriage
Speaker 1: ended and he ended up dating Cindy.
Speaker 2: Dang. Okay, that is a plot twist that I did
Speaker 2: not see coming.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of plot twists in this story, trust
Speaker 1: me on that.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Now, from that point on, Patrick spent most of his
Speaker 1: free time over at Cindy's place. What made all of
Speaker 1: this weird though, was that, almost like clockwork, the second
Speaker 1: Patrick started hanging around, all the creepy calls, threats and
Speaker 1: weird incidents, they just stopped. It was like whoever was
Speaker 1: stalking Cindy didn't want a risk getting caught with Patrick around.
Speaker 2: Well that doesn't make sense though it does.
Speaker 1: But then right before Halloween, Cindy found something chilling left
Speaker 1: on her front porch. There was a ransom style note
Speaker 1: made by cutting out letters from the newspaper and it
Speaker 1: simply read quote soon.
Speaker 2: Cindy, dot dot dot.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's had doc over. I know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sad, cut out and pasted three dots, but now
Speaker 1: shake and Cindy called Patrick immediately and asked him to
Speaker 1: move in with her, hoping to have you know him
Speaker 1: there full time and scaring off whoever was doing this.
Speaker 1: Patrick didn't hesitate. He agreed right away. Now. Interestingly enough, though,
Speaker 1: Cindy gave a slightly different version of events to her friends.
Speaker 1: You see, it's a little bit questionable in this situation
Speaker 1: on who asked who to move in. See, according to her,
Speaker 1: Patrick had actually offered to move in on his own,
Speaker 1: saying that he wanted to monitor the house during his
Speaker 1: off hours. She insisted that even though they were dating him,
Speaker 1: staying there was purely for safety and nothing romantic about it. Okay, Interesting,
Speaker 1: So Patrick's saying that Cindy asked him to move in,
Speaker 1: and she's saying that Patrick asked to move in. Yeah yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: not long after Patrick moved in, something strange happened. One evening,
Speaker 1: he spotted Roy make Peace sitting alone in his car
Speaker 1: parked right near Cindy's house. Oh dang, yeah, Roy is
Speaker 1: Cindy's ex husband. Right when Patrick approached him to ask
Speaker 1: what the hell he was doing there, Roy casually told
Speaker 1: him that he was just keeping an eye in the neighborhood,
Speaker 1: trying to catch the stalker himself. Apparently, he'd even brought
Speaker 1: along two guns, a rifle and a handgun with him
Speaker 1: sitting next to him in the car. Now, Patrick couldn't
Speaker 1: exactly arrest him for you know, sitting in his car
Speaker 1: in a street or something like that. Right, there's no
Speaker 1: evidence that Roy was doing anything wrong, so he just
Speaker 1: simply told Roy to pack up and go home and leave.
Speaker 1: So Roy left without argument. Now, this weird situation aside,
Speaker 1: there was something almost predictable about this whole situation. As
Speaker 1: long as Patrick was physically in the house, the calls
Speaker 1: and harassment completely stopped. Whoever was behind it seemed to
Speaker 1: know exactly when Patrick was around and only target Cindy
Speaker 1: when she was alone, and then not before long. That's
Speaker 1: when the threats started showing up in a new form,
Speaker 1: handwritten notes, disturbing images. They were all left on her porch,
Speaker 1: stuck to her windows, or tucked under the windshield wiper
Speaker 1: of her car. At one point, someone even cut the
Speaker 1: phone line to her house, but every time the police investigated,
Speaker 1: they came up empty. No footprints, no fingerprints, no sign
Speaker 1: of anyone coming or going. It was like her tormentor
Speaker 1: was a ghost. After about a month of living together,
Speaker 1: Cindy decided Patrick's present wasn't actually helping as much as
Speaker 1: she'd hoped. If anything, the whole situation felt even more tense,
Speaker 1: and she was worried his constant presence was making things worse.
Speaker 1: They talked it over and Patrick agreed to move out,
Speaker 1: but on one condition, only if you could keep a
Speaker 1: key to her house just in case of an emergency.
Speaker 1: Cindy agreed, and even after he moved out, they kept
Speaker 1: dating for about.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was just gonna ask, was that like a
Speaker 2: breakup or what?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: And Cindy did say to her friends that, you know,
Speaker 1: them living together was for a safety thing, not a
Speaker 1: romantic Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So now, what Cindy didn't know was that, starting in
Speaker 1: January of nineteen eighty three, the police began secretly wiring
Speaker 1: her phone. They tapped her phone line. They hope that
Speaker 1: if the caller kept up their campaign of terror, if
Speaker 1: you will, they could finally trace the call and figure
Speaker 1: out who was behind them.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the calls were just a little too short for
Speaker 1: each each time for the tech to pin down the
Speaker 1: exact location. All they could figure out was that the
Speaker 1: calls were coming from somewhere on the outskirts of Vancouver.
Speaker 1: Six months after the nightmare began, things kept getting worse
Speaker 1: and took a terrifying new turn. On January twenty seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Cindy's friend and coworker, Agnes Woodcock, swung
Speaker 1: by her house. See the two of them had made
Speaker 1: plans to hang out after work that day, just a
Speaker 1: low key evening to relax, catch up sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But when Agnes knocked, there was no answer. So she
Speaker 1: tried knocking on the door again, and still no answer.
Speaker 1: The house was silent. Figuring Cindy might be in the shower,
Speaker 1: or maybe had dozed off or forgotten that Agnes was
Speaker 1: showing up, whatever, she walked around to the back of
Speaker 1: the house to see if there was another way to
Speaker 1: get Cindy's attention inside, and that's when she stumbled onto
Speaker 1: a terrifying scene. Agnes was horrified by what she found.
Speaker 1: She made her way to Cindy's garage, and there on
Speaker 1: the cold floor was Cindy, crouched down, trembling with a
Speaker 1: nylon stalking tightly wrapped around her neck. She was shaking
Speaker 1: to her core, and though tears and panic, she told
Speaker 1: Agnes exactly what had happened. According to Cindy, she heard
Speaker 1: a knock at the front door, and when she opened it,
Speaker 1: a man forced his way inside and drug her into
Speaker 1: the garage, where a second man was already waiting for her. Together,
Speaker 1: they held her down and strangled her, both of them
Speaker 1: putting their hands around her neck, squeezing until she thought
Speaker 1: she'd pass out. She also told Agnes, though her memory
Speaker 1: was fuzzy, she believed that one of the men had
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her with a knife.
Speaker 2: What the shit? Yeah, Okay, that is a huge escalation.
Speaker 1: Isn't it. So before they left, the men warned Cindy
Speaker 1: and then as she went to the police, they'd track
Speaker 1: her sister down, her sister Melanie, and kill her.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: To prove they weren't bluffing, they told Cindy details about
Speaker 1: Melanie's life, things only someone who'd been watching her closely
Speaker 1: would know.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: When Agnes asked if Cindy could describe the attackers, all
Speaker 1: she could say was that they were both wearing white sneakers,
Speaker 1: and that was the only detail that stuck in her mind. Now.
Speaker 1: Despite these threats, Agnes didn't hesitate. She called the police
Speaker 1: right away. When officers and paramedics arrived, they got Cindy
Speaker 1: to the hospital for a full examination. But this is
Speaker 1: where things got a little complic For someone who'd just
Speaker 1: been overpowered by two grown men, Her injuries didn't really
Speaker 1: line up with her story. Her neck was read from
Speaker 1: a nylon stalking being tied around her neck, but there
Speaker 1: were no deep bruises or signs that anyone had used
Speaker 1: any serious force. We're talking her story was two men strangling.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and they were using their hands at points too,
Speaker 2: so you think there'd be like handprints or something.
Speaker 1: Bruising or something, But most of her injuries were minor
Speaker 1: surface level scrapes and some small bruising, barely at all,
Speaker 1: nothing you'd expect from a violent assault from alleged two attackers.
Speaker 1: And furthermore, there was no physical evidence to suggest that
Speaker 1: she'd been sexually assaulted at all, let alone with a knife.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, with a knife, that is. Oh, I can't
Speaker 2: even imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The whole thing left investigators scratching their heads. If
Speaker 1: someone had gone through all this trouble to terrorize Cindy,
Speaker 1: why had they left her alive? And if there really
Speaker 1: were two men working together, who was the second person
Speaker 1: lot alone the first? Right? Nothing about this made any sense.
Speaker 1: The inconsistencies made police more suspicious than sympathetic. They wanted answers,
Speaker 1: and they started to wonder if Cindy wasn't telling them everything.
Speaker 1: To get a better sense of what was going on,
Speaker 1: they asked her to see a psychiatrist, hoping a professional
Speaker 1: might be able to help shed some light or you know,
Speaker 1: help her at all. But Cindy flat out refused. She
Speaker 1: was terrified that if people found out she was seeing
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, they'd labeled her as unstable, and that was
Speaker 1: the last thing she wanted. Now. Remember we are talking
Speaker 1: about mental health in the eighties. Yeah, Instead, she compromised
Speaker 1: and agreed to see a general practitioner who was also
Speaker 1: experienced with counseling. It wasn't exactly what the police wanted,
Speaker 1: but it was better than nothing. Now. By this point,
Speaker 1: the investigation was at a complete stand still. The more Cindy
Speaker 1: told them, the less things made sense at all. It
Speaker 1: felt like there were so many large gaps in the
Speaker 1: story and what was going on, you know, things that
Speaker 1: she want wasn't saying, or maybe couldn't bring herself to say.
Speaker 1: Hoping to get some clarity, they asked her to take
Speaker 1: a polygraph test when the results came back, it confirmed
Speaker 1: what they started to suspect. Cindy wasn't being completely honest
Speaker 1: with authorities. There were things that she knew that she
Speaker 1: just wasn't sharing with them.
Speaker 2: Okay, like maybe she knew these people or something. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, that's where we're gonna end part one.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, what you look pissed? Well kind
Speaker 2: of because this case is kind of like, I don't
Speaker 2: know how to describe it, but it's just fucking all
Speaker 2: over the place.
Speaker 1: Really, it really is. Honestly, you nailed it. It's fucking
Speaker 1: all over the place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just I don't know. It seems like
Speaker 2: it plays with your mind a bit, like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of things where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I believe Cindy, and then there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, I don't believe Cindy. So you're
Speaker 1: very at least I am very contrary adding myself and
Speaker 1: my beliefs and my thoughts and what I want to
Speaker 1: say is true and false because.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm left sitting here just being what the fuck
Speaker 2: kind of thing, like what the fuck's happened here? And
Speaker 2: now I have to fucking wait and tell Friday to
Speaker 2: find out.
Speaker 1: I will promise you that what the fuck feeling will
Speaker 1: stay even to the end. Oh gosh, okay, I promise you.
Speaker 1: Huh wow.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, it's just sitting here listening to this
Speaker 2: It's the world is scary because I don't know. It
Speaker 2: also just makes you uneasy too, because I don't know,
Speaker 2: people are kind of fucked up.
Speaker 1: I like, how you just you're so angry with this
Speaker 1: case that you get halfway through a sentence and you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, well.
Speaker 2: I know. I even lately have been watching these shows
Speaker 2: on Netflix too that I think I need to watch
Speaker 2: something that's just I don't know, gives you a sense
Speaker 2: that human nature or humans are not terrible people. Yeah, basically,
Speaker 2: because right now I'm just like, oh my god, these
Speaker 2: two bastards are doing this to her, and I'm just, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of on Cindy side.
Speaker 1: Actually, I feel like maybe we should watch some Disney movies.
Speaker 1: How's that?
Speaker 2: M hmm.
Speaker 1: Get a little bit more cheer going on. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you guys for being here. Hopefully that you enjoyed this,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you in Part two. Where Yeah,
Speaker 1: we go through the rest of this and wrap up
Speaker 1: the case. And trust me when I say, there is
Speaker 1: a lot to this and that's what the fuck feeling
Speaker 1: will be there through it all. But I still hope
Speaker 1: you're enjoying this.
Speaker 2: Nichole's not no I am. I'm just like I have
Speaker 2: to go through my day now like this, wondering what
Speaker 2: the hell I'm going to be testing Ben, I'll find
Speaker 2: out the deeps. I'll post them on Instagram, just kidding,
Speaker 2: just kidding.
Speaker 1: You will not find out the deats, but I can
Speaker 1: tell you, guys, you can find out the deats on
Speaker 1: many more things about our show and the description of
Speaker 1: this podcast, including social media, website, you name it. It's
Speaker 1: all down there. You can sign up for Patreon there.
Speaker 1: Go ahead check it out, click on the links, give
Speaker 1: us a review. We appreciate it all. We're an indie
Speaker 1: podcast doing our thing. We can't be doing it without
Speaker 1: your support, so thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we appreciate you
Speaker 1: And until next time, stay wicked.