WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:15.679 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greig Corumbus. Our guest in 2 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:19.440 this edition is retired US Marine Corps Colonel Aaron Cunningham. 3 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:23.399 Colonel Cunningham recently retired after twenty nine years of service, 4 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.239 and today we're focusing on his time as a company 5 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.920 commander in the Second Battle of Fallujah in Iraq in 6 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.719 November and December two thousand and four. Then Captain Cunningham 7 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:39.880 commanded Alpha Company, first Battalion, eighth Marines and was responsible 8 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.840 for nearly two hundred Marines. In this conversation, we will 9 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.359 discuss his leadership, the other Marines, and the tactics involved 10 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.439 in the Battle of Fallujah. Aaron Cunningham was born in 11 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:53.479 the Midwest, but soon moved to the South, which he 12 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:54.759 still considers home. 13 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.679 I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, but moved down to 14 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:01.240 Georgia at about age of six six months. So I 15 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:04.079 claim Marietta, Georgia as my hometown. 16 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:06.159 And had there been a history of military service and 17 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:06.719 your family, my. 18 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.599 Father served in the Air Force during the Vietnam War, 19 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.799 did that influence your decision to join to a degree? 20 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:14.799 Just the service aspect of what he did in his stories? 21 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:16.480 Why did you choose the Marine Corps. 22 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.000 It's a good one. A lot of intangibles roped up 23 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:23.159 into that one, but the Gulf, to simply put it, 24 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.079 I was a senior in high school and that kind 25 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:28.879 of fired up something in me about wanting to get 26 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:30.719 out there. I think me and Buddy actually tried to 27 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:32.840 figure out how we could get out of high school 28 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:35.200 early and joined the Marine Corps with our parents, you know, 29 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:38.120 age seventeen waiver and that didn't work out well, probably 30 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:41.799 for good, but that kind of started the look and 31 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.200 just always inspired by reading books about history, books in 32 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.480 US history, and just the idea of potentially, you know, 33 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:52.560 being able to be part of something bigger than myself 34 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.640 and that kind of drew me. Those intangibles of the services. 35 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.400 The Marine Corps does it better than anybody else can 36 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:03.319 tap into that, rightfully. So so that's kind of the 37 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:04.280 path I took. 38 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.680 And did you attend college? I did the intent of 39 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:08.759 pursuing ROTC. 40 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.800 No, So I attended West Georgia College now it's University 41 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.960 of West Georgia at the time was a small state school. 42 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.039 Met my wife there, so it was a good pick. 43 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:22.520 But freshman year, like a lot of freshmen, just kind 44 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.400 of doing the freshman college thing, trying to figure out 45 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.960 exactly what I wanted to do. The idea of service, 46 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.439 whether it was law enforcement or military, was there, but 47 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:35.240 I was, you know, I say, C plus kids rule 48 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:36.719 the world. I was at C plus kids trying to 49 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:38.960 get through my freshman year of college. And then I 50 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.479 met a Marine officer recruiter on campus who were masters 51 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.319 at touching that intangible piece I just talked about and 52 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.639 the ball got rolling and I participated in what was 53 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.120 called Platoon leaders Course program where I went to Officer 54 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:57.159 Candidate School the summer between my junior, sophomore and junior 55 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.120 year and my junior and senior year. That's where a 56 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:03.400 job interview for officer candidates if you can make it through. 57 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:05.759 And then I said, this is what I want to do, 58 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.520 and was commission as a second lieutenant upon graduation in 59 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:09.560 the summer in ninety five. 60 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:10.919 And where did you go from there? 61 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.759 So I graduated as college in the summer, waited a 62 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.080 few months, and then attended the Basic School in Quantico, Virginia, 63 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:22.199 which is a six month program where all Marine officers attend. 64 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:26.000 It's a baselining. We say every Marine is a rifleman 65 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:30.400 we also dictated every Marine officer is a rifle beatem 66 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.360 commander if need be, which is proven to be quite 67 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:39.080 beneficial in past conflicts. So that school a baselining for 68 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.199 all officers, regardless of what you're going to do going forward. 69 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:45.520 About three corps of the way through that school, you 70 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.520 get your military occupational specialty. It's part what you desire, 71 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:51.919 part what you're capable of doing, and part what the 72 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.159 Marine Corps needs you to do. And I wanted to 73 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:57.080 be and it was chosen to be an infantry officer. 74 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.639 So graduated the Basic School and immediate attend did the 75 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.199 Infantry Officer Course, which is another three month school focused 76 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:10.680 on infantry specific officer requirements to lead Marines. Graduated from 77 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:13.879 the Inftry Officer Course and then proceeded to go to 78 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.160 my first Inftry battalion and assume the leadership role of 79 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.040 my first infantry platoon. 80 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:19.879 And where was that? 81 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:22.480 That was at First Battalion, Second Marines at Campbell, June, 82 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:23.120 North Carolina. 83 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.360 What other assignments did you have prior to nine to eleven? 84 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.759 So, as just discussed, I was at First Battalion, Second 85 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.839 Marines from nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety nine, pretty 86 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.480 standard nineteen nineties era. The East Coast Intry Battalion did 87 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:42.240 a Marine Expeditionary Unit deployment and ended up spending some 88 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.879 time in Africa and Zaia and the Congo and conducted 89 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.480 a non combatant evacuation operation out of Freetown. Sier Leone 90 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.639 came back, did some fun stuff at Bridgeport in California, 91 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.879 left there in the summer of nineteen ninety nine, and 92 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:00.879 was selected for captain at that point, which is pretty standard. 93 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.639 I didn't do anything remarkable to get it. It's just 94 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.800 if you don't screw up bad enough, you'll probably get 95 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:10.560 the captain. And then got orders to the School of Infantry, 96 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.839 which happens to be at Campel's Union as well, adjacent 97 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:17.279 to Campel's June, but geographically the same area. And spent 98 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:19.759 the next three years at the School of Infantry as 99 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.040 a company commander, a battalion operations officer, and then the 100 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:26.199 director of a school. And in that time is when 101 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:27.160 nine to eleven occurred. 102 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.399 Obviously, how did that day unfold for you? How did 103 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:30.079 you hear about it? 104 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.839 I was in the office. I was the director of 105 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:38.600 at the time, Advanced Infantry Training Company it's since changed 106 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:41.759 names and grown in scope and complexity, But that was 107 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.439 my job at the time, and we saw it on 108 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.360 the news like everybody else in the world in our nation, 109 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:50.160 not sure what was going on. But at the time, 110 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:53.319 I had some of my subordinate units in the field training, 111 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:56.639 and all I could think to do was was just 112 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:00.319 go out and myself and my first sergeant drove out 113 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.519 there because they didn't have access communications or you know, 114 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.360 cell phones weren't a thing, just to explain to them 115 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.800 what was going on and giving them the information that 116 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:11.519 we had that we knew to be true at the time, 117 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.199 which really wasn't much so obviously a very somber day 118 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.879 for for everybody, but you know, like everybody kind of 119 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:20.639 in the dark, even more so because most of us 120 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.160 were out in the field training without access to the 121 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.079 local news. Did your orders change quickly after that or 122 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:31.639 did you finish mine? Did not. I was due to 123 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:35.800 rotate in the summer of two thousand and two. Anyway, 124 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:40.040 I had orders to the Expeditionary Warfare School, which is 125 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.160 a school that's kind of a captain's career level school 126 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.240 that a lot of captains go to in Quarnaico. So 127 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:49.560 I already had orders to that, and there was no 128 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.240 reason for me not to execute those orders. The Service 129 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:54.399 had the people the Service needed to do what the 130 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.439 Service needed them to do, and didn't need me doing 131 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.800 something different at that point. So I tended that year 132 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:03.480 long school. While in school with all of my peers 133 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:09.040 is when Operation Iraqi Freedom one kicked off. So as 134 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:12.839 an infantry captain sitting in Quantico watching a lot of 135 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:19.920 my friends participate in that was a interesting experience. We 136 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:23.240 all would rather have been over there than sitting in 137 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.040 a classroom because we assumed that this would be, you know, 138 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:29.959 over relatively quick. And you know, you joined the Marine 139 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:31.759 Corps to do what the Marine Corps wants you to do, 140 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.959 and there's a fight and you want to go to 141 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.560 the fight. So interesting year, great year. Educationally, graduated in 142 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:42.920 the summer of three, where there was a bit of 143 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:47.160 a lull in Iraqi Freedom at that point had orders 144 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.480 to first Battalion, eighth Marines. In the summer of two 145 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:53.199 thousand and three, I checked into Camp Le June and 146 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.959 everybody was gone because everybody was overseas in Iraq starting 147 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.800 to phase slowly phase back from I guess at the 148 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:06.360 time we called itaf one. I was an eftry captain 149 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:08.920 now without a battalion to even check into because one 150 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:15.680 eight was still overseas, and an opportunity came up to 151 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.319 deploy to the country of Georgia as part of a 152 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.959 small training team doing foreign internal defense type of things. 153 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:27.360 So again, as a captain in the intra He's city 154 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.519 at Campbell, Junion, while all my buddies were overseas, I 155 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.200 raised my hand immediately to just get out of there. 156 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.200 So I spent the last half of two thousand and 157 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:36.600 three in the country of Georgia. 158 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.519 Anything in particular that comes to mind about that assignment. 159 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.559 Working with the Georgian and infter battalion was a fantastic 160 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.399 learning and growing experience for me. Being in that part 161 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.879 of the country, former Soviet part of the world was 162 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:52.279 eye opening. Got to learn a lot from them about 163 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.879 their experiences under Soviet domination, followed by their ability to 164 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.200 break free, you know, in the early nineties, President the 165 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:05.320 Chevronazi was overthrown during that time during the Rose or 166 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.000 Velvet Revolution. I can't keep up with all the names, 167 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.480 but so that was interesting to just kind of be 168 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:14.279 on the sidelines for that. Came back in December of three, 169 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:19.039 and then after Christmas break January of four, checked into 170 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:20.799 Alpha Company, First Battalion, eighth Marines. 171 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.480 What was it like to meet those guys who had 172 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:25.399 already had a little bit of a history together. 173 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:29.200 In one eight. Yeah, it was interesting. But at the time, 174 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:33.279 when you get back from a deployment, you immediately start 175 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:36.480 to reset for the next thing, and marines that were 176 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.159 staying in the unit would be assuming their new positions, 177 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:42.159 whether it's a leadership position or just another billet. Those 178 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.519 that were executing orders would be prepared potentially to go 179 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.759 to their next job. So it's always a bit of 180 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:50.720 a transition period. So I came in during a transition 181 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:54.320 period with a lot of other Marines and sailors coming 182 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.320 into the battalion, So you know, you have this this 183 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:00.000 mix of old and new, which is how it always is, 184 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.759 and there's there's goodness to that. And then you start 185 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.279 building the new team for the new mission, which is 186 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.399 what we did from January till June. 187 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:10.200 Of four, and what specifically was the mission that you 188 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:11.480 were preparing for at that point. 189 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:15.440 So at that time it was a bit ambiguous, at 190 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:19.399 least again I'm speaking from a young captain's perspective, right, counterinsurtancy. 191 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:23.639 Let's get the iraqi Uh leadership up on their feet 192 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:25.559 and running and all the stuff. Everybody knows. I don't 193 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.440 need to, you know, rehash what's what's out there a 194 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:32.000 million times. But we weren't necessarily preparing for large combat operations. 195 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.000 I mean, that's what marines do. But the focus, if 196 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.159 you know, if you had to pick a focus at 197 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:39.240 the time, it was counter insurancy, stability, security, those type 198 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:39.799 of missions. 199 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:42.320 What specific training did you do to prepare for that? 200 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.679 Getting the Marines in the mindset, you know, we train 201 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.720 them from day one to be highly aggressive and to 202 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:51.919 take the fight to the enemy. In the counter insurancy environment, 203 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.919 you're you're you're working more of an influence type of environment. 204 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:59.519 How do we influence versus an adversary Influence which means 205 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:01.200 dealing with all a lot of people and dealing with 206 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:06.440 the locals in the country, whether just civilians or those 207 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:11.240 in local civic leadership positions, trying not to make enemies, 208 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.080 trying to make friends, but being prepared to deal with 209 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:17.840 the enemies when they show themselves or interfere patrolling, urban patrolling. 210 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:23.320 The ID issue was starting starting to emerge at that point, 211 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.840 it had not hit the crescendo like it would obviously 212 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:31.120 in a couple of years, working through those issues, transitioning 213 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:34.919 to foot mounted to vehicle mounted and covering potentially larger 214 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:38.480 distances or your area of operations or your the area 215 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.240 that you're assigned to operating in is going to be 216 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:43.440 larger than you're typically used to. And you know, training 217 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.039 at Camp Lejune in the woods, now we're in the 218 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.720 open deserts, all that stuff. Just getting the Marines prepared mentally, physically, 219 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:53.320 emotionally to go into that situation and frankly be able 220 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.039 to do whatever it is the Marine coordinated us to do. 221 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.519 That's Aaron Cunningham, a US Marine Corps veteran who commanded 222 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:02.679 Alpha C Company of the first Battalion, eighth Marines in 223 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:05.840 the Second Battle of Fellujah. In a moment, Cunningham and 224 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.679 his company are off to Iraq, and he tells us 225 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:11.399 all the things that we're going through his mind as 226 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.639 he and his Marines prepared to enter Fellusha. I'm Greg 227 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.279 Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. 228 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:20.799 Sixty Seconds of Service. 229 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.039 This sixty Seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile. 230 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.240 T Mobile offers exclusive discounts for a veteran and military 231 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:30.759 families and are proud supporters of the National Defense Network. 232 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.840 Visit t mobile dot com slash military to learn more 233 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.200 about how they support our military community. From Medford, Oregon, 234 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.039 ten veterans who are living without stable housing now have 235 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:44.159 a permanent home thanks to Access. Access is Supportive Services 236 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:47.879 for Veterans Families. 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I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this 247 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:27.000 addition is Colonel Aaron Cunningham. He's a retired US Marine 248 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.159 Corps officer and in late two thousand and four, Captain 249 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.720 Cunningham commanded Alpha Company, first Battalion, eighth Marines during the 250 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.120 Second Battle of Fallushah. We now pick up his story 251 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.279 of service as his marines are deployed to Iraq, and 252 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.759 Cunningham says he knew they were ready. 253 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:49.360 I did. There's something beneficial or any unit, but in 254 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.559 a Marine Corps Entry battalion, when you have a focus. 255 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.320 Marines do better when you have a mission, a real mission. 256 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.480 And we knew we were deploying to Iraq. We didn't 257 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:00.440 know exactly what we do when we got there, but 258 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.399 that enough was that was enough to focus the marines. 259 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.320 Myself included on this. This is super serious. So yes, 260 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.159 I think the Marines were or as prepared as they 261 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:12.519 could possibly be, knowing what we knew at the time. 262 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.919 They were cohesive, they'd worked together. You know, Marines do 263 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:21.799 better in adversity, so hard training builds adversity. Adversity builds cohesion. 264 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.000 Cohesion enables those Marines to handle whatever, whatever gets thrown out. 265 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:27.480 So that was your first time in Iraq in the 266 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:30.320 summer of two thousand and four, how would you describe 267 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:31.720 the heat at that time of the year. 268 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.679 Hot, I meant to be honest, it's you know, we 269 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.720 joke it to dry heat campus huns pretty hot too. 270 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.720 It's different, but it's impressively hot. I mean, it's just 271 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.600 that's that part of the world. Back to your earlier question, 272 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.399 I missed the point. In April. You had the big 273 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.320 fight in Fallujah as well, so that that was in 274 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.200 our minds as well. So trying to balance the counter 275 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:57.600 incertaincy stability security type of operations vers a couple of 276 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.519 battalions just go on toe to toe, so we need 277 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.159 to make sure we're prepared to do that as well. 278 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.480 So again a good focusing mechanism for the Marines going 279 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:07.320 into that environment. 280 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.879 Did you have a feeling that, because of how the 281 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.200 first operation in Fellujah went, that you might be involved 282 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:14.919 in the second one? 283 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:17.600 Mike is probably the appropriate word. Again, I was a captain. 284 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:23.039 I'm at the pointy end of our national security apparatus, right, 285 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.840 So my focus is about two hundred marines down and 286 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.519 in get down and in getting them prepared to do 287 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.200 whatever the Marine Corps needs us to do. So trying 288 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:34.360 to guess what our senior leaders are going to do 289 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.480 is futile and I don't have time for it, right, 290 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.159 so be prepared if they need us to. But you 291 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.200 don't spend a lot of time speculating on that. 292 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.799 So at what point in two thousand and four did 293 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.559 you start to hear from your higher ups that, yeah, 294 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:49.120 you got to get ready for this, this is coming. 295 00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:53.320 The interesting the young marines would routinely ask, because marines 296 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:55.480 are marines, and if there's a fight over there, they 297 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.519 want to go over to the fight, like, hey, so 298 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.480 are we going back in? And I obviously do not 299 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.480 know the answer to that. Just focus on what we 300 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:06.399 need to do today. But but you know, that's what 301 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.679 you expect marines to do. I would say maybe a 302 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.720 few weeks out I can't remember the timeline, and maybe 303 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:15.000 a few weeks prior, maybe late October, mid October, you 304 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.639 start to hear things that, hey, this something may may 305 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.519 be going on. Again, I'm not privy to senior leader discussions. 306 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.519 And but again, brain, just be ready, that's all you 307 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.799 gotta do. You just be ready. We'll let we'll let 308 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.200 the decision makers decide, and then we'll execute when the 309 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.759 time comes. 310 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.519 From what I've heard from the other guys, it was 311 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:35.480 just a couple of days before the operation started that 312 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.000 they really were under the impression that something was going 313 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.440 to happen, mobilized and then put in positions. 314 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.919 So we pushed from Alisad down the all endbar Problemnce 315 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.200 towards Fallujah and again, I apologize can't remember the exact 316 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.159 timeline they probably should done, but there's all the histories 317 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:50.600 are out there you can you can see the dates. 318 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:57.039 We pushed in to Camp Fallujah, just east of the 319 00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:01.559 city of Fallujah, and again not until sure if we 320 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:03.799 would actually go or not. There were some things at 321 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.759 the higher levels that were happening, to include elections and 322 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.599 all this stuff. But again for the Marines, Okay, this 323 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:12.440 is now the environment we're in, so we're going to 324 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.240 start focusing on combat operations in an urban environment. Whether 325 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.319 we go or not is not relevant, but we're going 326 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.480 to be prepared for that eventuality when it comes. So 327 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:25.599 that's what the Marines were doing. As an eighteen or 328 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.319 nineteen year old, I can see how that is incredibly 329 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:32.359 unnerving because despite you know, at our level pushing as 330 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.720 much information down as possible, by the time that information 331 00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:39.920 often gets down to the youngest marine, it's modified itself 332 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.440 because it's an iterative process, so you never have complete 333 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:47.480 clarity nor should we expect to have complete clarity, right. 334 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:51.519 And so as you are in position and it seemed 335 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.720 like this is going to be imminent, what's running through 336 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.440 your mind? It's your first time heading into combat. But 337 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.519 also you're in charge of two hundred marine and so 338 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:03.720 making sure they're taken care of and they're in the 339 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:05.240 right position to do what they need to do. I'm 340 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.359 sure it's at the front of your mind. So what 341 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.599 are you thinking about as you're getting ready to do this? 342 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:14.680 Thinking about a lot about two hundred and any marines, 343 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.759 plus some attachments with tanks and light armor and constant 344 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:23.440 vehicles and maybe some Iraqi forces. There's never a time 345 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.640 to say stop, this is it? This is always It's 346 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:30.319 constantly evolved. Mean, so you're constantly taking in information processing, analyzing, 347 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.480 spitting out to your subordinates the latest and newest to 348 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:38.000 keep them as prepared as possible. So to simply answer 349 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:42.480 your question, getting the mission accomplished and doing right by 350 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.839 the marines at the same time. And that's that's a 351 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.960 that's a tension. It always is for any any any 352 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.160 leader in any any combat in situation is marines get 353 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.200 the job done. If they tell me to do this, 354 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.680 We're gonna do it. We're gonna and hard. We're going 355 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:02.240 to go in as hard as we need to be 356 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.480 to get it done. But we're going to do it right. 357 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.839 We're going to do right by the Marines. We're gonna 358 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.160 take care of the Marines. Make sure that you take 359 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.119 care of my making sure they're trained, making sure they're 360 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.920 trained in the most realistic and most challenging environments possible, 361 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.240 because that builds with their confidence in their personal skills. 362 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.079 It builds with their confidence in their teammates, and that 363 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.039 confidence in their teammates is what enables young Marines to 364 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:26.839 be unsupperable. 365 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.279 That's Colonel Aaron Cunningham, a retired US Marine Corps officer 366 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.119 who served as company commander of Alpha Company, first Battalion, 367 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.440 eighth Marines in the Second Battle of Fallujah in late 368 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.359 two thousand and four. When we come back, Cunningham takes 369 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.119 us into the heat of battle. I'm Greg Corumbus and 370 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:51.279 this is Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. 371 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.799 Our guest in this edition is retired US Marine Corps 372 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:59.400 Colonel Aaron Cunningham, who served as commander of Alpha Company, 373 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.960 first Battalion, eighth Marines in the Second Battle of Fallujah 374 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.640 in late two thousand and four. Cunningham will now walk 375 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.240 us through the intensity of this urban combat, but he 376 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.440 starts with a bit of a correction for how the 377 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.519 Marines under his command often characterize the start of the battle. 378 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.599 Tell me about the shock and a portion just before 379 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.119 you guys went in and then getting there. 380 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:24.240 I keep hearing this term shock and all from the Marines. 381 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:26.559 It's funny because I don't believe that was ever a 382 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.440 term anybody used except the young Marines, which is fantastic. 383 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.640 That's fine. I don't recall the term chock and all. 384 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.839 What you had was some initial preparatory things happening to 385 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.200 set some conditions for the force to go in. But 386 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:46.079 I imagine, as a young Marine whose first deployment when 387 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:50.079 you see a lot of airplanes dropping bombs and artillery shooting, 388 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.160 that that is shock and all. So I get it. 389 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:57.680 So you know, from a human perspective, with that did 390 00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.960 for me and I guess all the other Marines is 391 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:03.799 we knew this was going to be big, or at 392 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.680 least for us, bigger than anything anybody of us had 393 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.319 ever done. That solidified it. We did everything at night. 394 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.720 So the eighth into the ninth, I believe, is when 395 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.200 the initial kickoff happened and the division conducted some initial 396 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:20.640 breaches and moved south into the city to do what 397 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:26.200 they needed to do. It was a tremendous amount of fire, 398 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:31.240 I mean from coal US coalition, joint forces, joint fires 399 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.599 going into designated targets to set conditions, and a lot 400 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.559 of fire coming back out the other direction. So that 401 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.119 was a mental click that I mean, we already knew 402 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.000 it was going to be big, but that mental click 403 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:47.759 just kind of solidified that. And maybe that was good 404 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.559 for some of the Marines. Maybe it wasn't, but it 405 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.440 certainly provided a focusing mechanism. 406 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.599 Now, your role on the first night was to push 407 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.039 to the Mayor's complex. 408 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:03.640 Nope, So the first night Alpha company was the regimental 409 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:05.960 or the division reserve. We stayed back the first night 410 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:11.160 for the initial breach while the division breached through, gained 411 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.119 an initial foothold, and we're attacking through the city and 412 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.200 just doing remarkable things. I'm able to listen in and 413 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.839 hear what those warriors were doing, to include the army 414 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.759 units with us as we pushed south and at a 415 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.359 designated time our higher headquarters was going to have my 416 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:32.240 company sentially penetrate through the front the deepest part of 417 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.559 friendly lines and sees the Mayor's complex. And that was 418 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.880 almost twenty four hours later. So we spent that first 419 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:45.519 day watching, listening, preparing mentally tactically for the coming mission. 420 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.240 But for that first day, those young marines that you've 421 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.519 been talking to were essentially spectators in this massive fight. 422 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.000 And then on the night of the ninth, morning of 423 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.839 the tenth is when Alpha Company mounted up and conducted 424 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.039 that movement to secure the Mayor's Complex. 425 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.200 And that was a successful operation, correct. 426 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.400 It was the idea being that shocked surprise, middle of 427 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.519 the night, overwhelming firepower. Get it, grab it, hold it. 428 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.559 If it may get sen your way, you're knock them down, 429 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.119 which is exactly is exactly what occurred. We were able 430 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:27.000 to get into the complex relatively I'm like say, easy, 431 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.480 but about as planned, which is rare because there was 432 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.000 limited resistance from inside the complex because I think we 433 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.240 caught him by surprise. That lasted about an hour hour 434 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:43.640 and a half until the enemy recognized that there was 435 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.839 a relatively large force smack dab in the middle of 436 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.799 the city. Well, the rest of the division was kind 437 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.519 of north of us fighting south, so we were pushed 438 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.599 forward now into almost a city block outpost. And then 439 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:59.799 the enemy obviously, you know, we we have a plan, 440 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.200 we have goals and objectives. Well those are typically the 441 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.960 exact opposite of the enemy's goals and objectives, right, So 442 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.960 that became a competition there in the center of the city. 443 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.400 Tell me what happened when the sun rose the next morning. 444 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:18.799 We were getting attacked from all sides, which was not unsurprising. 445 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.440 We were in enemy territory, which they probably thought, you know, 446 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.039 going to bed that night, it would be theirs when 447 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.039 they woke up, and it wasn't. So they wanted it 448 00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:28.680 back and we were not going to give. 449 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.359 It to them. And so describe the scene. How did 450 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:37.960 you position your men and what was the enemy presenting. 451 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.079 The Mayor's complex at the time. I recently just looked 452 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.279 on Google Earth. It looks a little different. I think 453 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:44.680 there's some more structures potentially that have been built in 454 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.359 the last twenty years. But at the time it was, 455 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.119 there was a city block about three hundred you know, 456 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.240 three football fields by three football fields, if you can 457 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.359 imagine that. But it wasn't as built up as a 458 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.319 typical city block in that area because it was you know, 459 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:04.519 municipal type type buildings. So my initial plan, which was 460 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:09.240 iterated you know, with the lieutenants and Stephan CEO's, was 461 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:15.960 to systematically isolate it and gain a foothold and then 462 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:21.119 start grabbing buildings. Platoons would support other platoons grab a building, 463 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:26.880 support each other by either fire or observation, and the platoons, 464 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.039 frankly and I pushed as much authority and responsibility down 465 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.920 to the platoons as I possibly could, which is what 466 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.440 what Marines do, and they did the same to their 467 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.680 squdalators and team leaders because this was a highly decentralized 468 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.039 fight and that's how you generate tempo. So we came 469 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.720 in from the north. I didn't like the existing entrances 470 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.480 to the compound. If I was a bad guy he 471 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.119 turned them up around. I would either booby trap those 472 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:57.000 put mines or have something targeting that. So didn't want 473 00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.240 to use those entrances. So as we as we came 474 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.640 in with our Meccanis armored fast Force and tracks LAV 475 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.799 twenty fives and tanks, we conducted the explosive and mechanical 476 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.880 breaches at different locations through the compound walls to stream 477 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:16.279 into this facility. The Marine spilled out and attack their 478 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:21.000 pre designated objectives, grab buildings, secured them, supported each other, 479 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:27.640 and we were just about through the entire complex within 480 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:31.119 an hour hour and a half when the enemy woke 481 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:34.200 up and started started getting after us. At that point 482 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:39.480 it was you know, consolidate, hold, start leveraging joint fires 483 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.359 to target the adversar area where we could see them, 484 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:46.599 and communicate back to higher headquarters because at this point 485 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:48.839 the rest of the division is still in a massive 486 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.319 fight in their own battalion, company, platoon, squad sectors moving 487 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:56.319 generally from north to south, you know, from behind me, 488 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.680 coming towards us, all right, So helping coordinate with them 489 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:04.119 to assist were necessary on enemy movements or what we're seeing. 490 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.079 So that's kind of what was happening in the first 491 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:06.880 couple hours. 492 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.200 Now, a difficult moment in this fight is the loss 493 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:16.400 of Lieutenant Malcolm. Explain what happened in that situation and 494 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:18.519 what his loss meant to the platon. 495 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:27.319 So mid morning on the tenth, the Marine Corps Birthday, 496 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.480 we were on a rooftop, just still in the process 497 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:39.559 of securing that facility. Mostly mostly there. Dan was my 498 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:42.759 fire sport team leader, so he was my company represented 499 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.359 and in charge of using term joint fires, but anything that's 500 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.640 not coming directly from the extreme marine, so artillery or 501 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.880 aviation fires kind of coordinating that in conjunction and support 502 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:59.400 of the maneuver of the company. So it's a very 503 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.839 important job. So he's on the radio talking, coordinating with 504 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.599 Ford air controllers and artillery forward observers, and the rooftop 505 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.200 quickly became untenable just to the amount of fire came, 506 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.920 and so we pulled down off the rooftop. And I 507 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.279 don't remember exactly how long after we pulled down, but 508 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:21.960 I was down in a four year type area and 509 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.480 Dan was coming down the stairs briefing me on the 510 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:29.279 status of the aviation assets on station and all the 511 00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:32.440 things that we needed to know to to support the 512 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:34.799 Marines and and get after the get after the bad guys. 513 00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:39.799 When he was he was shot in the upper upper back. 514 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:41.279 Uh So. 515 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:47.759 I heard the round hit his front sappy plate because 516 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:52.640 we were talking to each other when it occurred. And yeah, 517 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:53.519 and that was it. 518 00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.680 Describe him as a as a leader and as a marine's. 519 00:28:57.599 --> 00:28:59.400 I mean, like like like all of them. He was 520 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.200 a patriot. It it's a great, great marine officer, a 521 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:10.640 great person, I think, just smart will, willing to do 522 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:13.920 whatever it took to take care of his marines and 523 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.359 get the job done, and just I mean it's fantastic. 524 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.119 Explain how you were able to push away from the 525 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.440 Mayor's complex, Who made that call, and then how is 526 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:26.119 it executed? 527 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:33.759 So mid afternoon timeline gets a little blurry mid afternoon, 528 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.240 maybe later towards the evening that the division has started 529 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.279 to come on. I use the term online. It's not 530 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:45.240 that simple, but online with the Mayor's Complex, which is 531 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.559 not quite halfway down the south side of the city 532 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:53.200 on a large east west running highway which we used 533 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.960 as a phase line to help for command control for 534 00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:01.720 different fires purposes. We were told that at some point 535 00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.599 in the near future, when conditions were set, which were 536 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.839 going to be determined by those you know, much senior 537 00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:09.119 to me at the time, that the division was going 538 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:14.960 to continue the attack south to clear and zone. You know, basically, 539 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.480 we know most of the enemy are now south of 540 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:21.079 us because we've killed the ones north of us, and 541 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:22.880 we're going to go we go down and finish the job. 542 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:28.599 So the next morning, the eleventh, I believe yes, because 543 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.960 the night of the tenth, I got permission to push 544 00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.119 a platoon south across that phase line. You know, with 545 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:36.039 the goal being in any time you're in a fight, 546 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:40.279 you want your decision cycle to be faster than the adversaries. 547 00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:43.160 You want to stay in their decision making loop. You 548 00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.799 want to keep them second guessing and thinking and concerned 549 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.000 about what your next move is. So we pushed a 550 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:54.160 platoon south of the phase line, and at the time 551 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.920 they were most likely the most further southernmost coalition force 552 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.640 in the fight. And that night they grabbed the piece 553 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.079 of train kind of honkered down and essentially we're going 554 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.519 to be some eyes and ears for the regiment as 555 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.359 the sun came up before we did this push. When 556 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:16.720 the sun came up, Lieutenant Acimans platoon was essentially surrounded 557 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:23.279 by a large number of enemy fighters who were I 558 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.240 wasn't with him. I was talking to him, but it 559 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:27.519 sounded like they were in a staging area preparing for 560 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:31.079 a big assault back to the north, and he was 561 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.680 either you know, based on who you are, at the 562 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.680 right place or the wrong place, at the right time 563 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:40.599 and we had a little talk and then he laid 564 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:46.160 into him and the Marines did some fantastically heroic things 565 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:50.680 for a few hours. Once given the order, we were 566 00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:54.119 told to move out of the Mayor's complex south into 567 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.119 the rest of the southern portion of the city. Getting 568 00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:02.279 across that phase line was a challenge because south of 569 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:05.640 the phase line was full of bad guys and they 570 00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.039 working to less just be aboup across the street. So 571 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:15.319 we use heavy amounts of suppressive fires to cover the 572 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.000 marine's movement. And this is through coordinating with other companies 573 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.440 and adjacent units and bringing in different capabilities, which is 574 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.400 what we trained to do, and it worked out pretty 575 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.559 well and pushed into the south side of the city 576 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.960 and started our clearing operations south. 577 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.720 Now, in the clearing operations you talked about the decentralization 578 00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:39.000 of authority and leaving a lot of decisions to platoon 579 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:43.000 squad and the team leaders. How does that unfold? What 580 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:44.920 do you tell the platoon commander and what does he 581 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.960 tell the squad leaders and. 582 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.599 So on, So everything you needed to tell them is 583 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.480 already in their rearview mirror at that point. So going 584 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.960 back to my comment about training realistically and training hard, 585 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.839 you're in the fight now and you just hoped it. 586 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.160 You trained hard enough, and I think these Marines were prepared. 587 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:10.279 So when you look on a map, you know, in 588 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:12.640 any battle, you'll see a maybe they call it the 589 00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:17.160 forward line of troops as the units move through their objectives. 590 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.559 The reality is in a fight like that, and just 591 00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.799 using our company as an example, which replicates lots of 592 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:27.640 other Marines and other battalions doing the same essentially the 593 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.799 same thing. You may have five, six, ten, three hundred 594 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.960 and sixty degree firefights happening at the same time, so 595 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:42.720 online on a map, in reality it's this and those platoons. 596 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.599 Just like I pushed down authority to the platoons, say, 597 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:50.960 you guys have to cross talk. I can't process analyze, 598 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.880 give an order or an approval or an authority to 599 00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.000 do something. We don't have time. That's going to crush 600 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.240 our tempo. You guys talk, so they do the same thing. 601 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.359 Squad leaders, you guys have to talk latterly. Fire team leaders, 602 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.240 you guys have to talk laterally. To be honest, we 603 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:10.599 didn't necessarily train for that, don't. You don't train to 604 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:14.079 shoot towards each other in training. You know you don't 605 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.599 in a fight like that if you look at it 606 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:21.760 from a geometry perspective, their marine shooting north east west. 607 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:28.000 But that awareness, that spatial awareness and the geometries involved 608 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:32.920 allowed them to think through what's behind that building where 609 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:37.159 those bad guys are, what munition is appropriate? Then to 610 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:41.639 kill them, but not bleed over into the unit next 611 00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:45.400 to them, which to me was fascinating that they were 612 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:48.199 able to do that. And you know, at the team level, 613 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:52.320 squad level, platoon level, and my role then was similar, 614 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:56.360 but okay, joint fires, where can we employ joint fires 615 00:34:56.360 --> 00:35:00.400 in support of this squad who's in this fight? But 616 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.880 there's another squad forty meters over here? What can we use? 617 00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.440 And that was a discussion between the team leader, squad leaders, 618 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:13.679 between commanders, me my higher headquarters joint fires assets. But 619 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:19.239 it wasn't me leading to fight. I was providing injection 620 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.920 when I because from my perspective, I may see something, Hey, no, 621 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:27.639 here's why otherwise go or hey what about this? I've 622 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:31.599 got this asset? Or hey second platoon, first platoon actually 623 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.320 moved quicker I can I can kind of see where 624 00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.880 they are and sent you guys hook up on the 625 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.079 in this road alley whatever and figure it out. So 626 00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.760 highly decentralized, which means you have to trust those eighteen 627 00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:47.599 and nineteen year old warriors to make decisions that, frankly, 628 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.639 I say, their way above their pay grade, and they're not. 629 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:53.360 That's that's what they do, but it is absolutely friggin amazing. 630 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.079 Retired to US Marine Corps Colonel Aaron Cunningham served as 631 00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:01.000 commander of Alpha Company, first Battalion, eighth Marines in the 632 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.519 Second Battle of Fallujah in November and December two thousand 633 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.400 and four. In a moment, we'll discuss more of the 634 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:11.000 battle and learn how Cunningham approached his leadership role during 635 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.519 the battle. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans Chronicles. 636 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.760 This is Veterans' Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 637 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.400 this edition is retired US Marine Corps Colonel Aaron Cunningham, 638 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.280 who recently retired after twenty nine years in the Corps. 639 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.239 During the Second Battle of Fallujah in late two thousand 640 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.719 and four, he commanded Alpha Company, first Battalion, eighth Marines, 641 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.559 and as we pick up his story, I asked him 642 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:41.480 about some of the leadership qualities that the Marines under 643 00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:46.559 his command appreciated most, starting with his calmness even in 644 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.320 the most stressful moments of the urban fighting. Was it 645 00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:54.559 his natural demeanor, a product of training, or a concerted 646 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.079 effort to keep his marines calm as they did very 647 00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:58.920 difficult work. 648 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.760 It's probably just, I mean, a bit of who I am. 649 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.760 I certainly you know you want to do well, right, 650 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:10.760 I'm a company commander in combat, so I want to 651 00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:13.360 get the job done. I mean, I spent nine years 652 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.559 preparing for this moment. May mean not particularly this, but 653 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:19.159 the Marine Corps trusted me with the privilege and the 654 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:22.519 honor to command an entry company, which, frankly, it's about 655 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:24.320 as good as it gets. It's the best job in 656 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.519 the world. It is because at that level you can 657 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.320 still get to know your young marines much higher than that. 658 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.360 It's just because of scope, scale and complexity, you don't, 659 00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.960 I mean just pragmatically. Obviously, being highly excited on the 660 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:41.000 radio does not instill confidence, so I know that, right. 661 00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.400 So even if I was highly excited on the inside, 662 00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:45.960 and there were times where I was highly excited on 663 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:50.199 the inside, that's not helpful to a marine who's in 664 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.079 a really bad spot. So I mean, that's leaders just, 665 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.480 you know, commander to kind of know that it's just 666 00:37:56.199 --> 00:38:00.519 it's part of the way it is yelling. Frankly, the 667 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:03.320 only supply for yelling is when it's a volume issue, 668 00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:05.960 and in a fight like that, sometimes you're yelling just 669 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:10.039 to talk over the sound of machine gun fire. But 670 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.239 I was just humbled to the stay, humbled to have 671 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.159 the opportunity to be with them. 672 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.119 The other thing a lot of them said is that 673 00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.239 how often you were right up there at the front 674 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.800 talking to guys and understanding what they were seeing and 675 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:28.480 what they were going through. And I don't know if 676 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.519 that's standard operating procedure for company commanders, but they were 677 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:35.480 very impressed by it. So what value did you get 678 00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.519 from being up there? And how much do you think 679 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.119 it meant to end that you were up there? 680 00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:44.280 You know, my job was simply commanding control. That's what 681 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:47.719 a commander does, the exercise of authority and direction by 682 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:53.119 a command or over forces to accomplish mission right. And 683 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:56.480 in order to do that, you know, control or command 684 00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:58.679 is you know, based on my authorities? Is a commander? 685 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:03.119 Control is that erative feedback of information to make sure 686 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:07.119 that under my command portion my objectives are being achieved 687 00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.599 that I outline, well, you have to assess how things 688 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:14.639 are going to know that. In an urban fight like that, 689 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:19.840 I may have been only one hundred meters behind another, 690 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.599 but I might as well have been five miles. So 691 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.719 you have to push yourself up to the front. Not 692 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:30.840 that I'll trust the Marines, absolutely trust them, But I 693 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:35.039 also information back to my higher headquarters to help them 694 00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:38.039 do the same thing I'm doing, only theirs is more 695 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:41.280 complex and scope and scale and time and distance. So 696 00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.559 it did a couple of things. It gave me situational awareness. 697 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:49.360 I never had great situational awareness, but certainly couldn't get 698 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:54.559 it from the back. Most importantly, I could look at 699 00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:59.239 the Marines and I could listen to them and see 700 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:01.880 in their eyes, and hear the inflection of mich platoon 701 00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:07.199 commander's voices, and see how they're doing, both just physically 702 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.159 like hey, drink a bottle of water, devil dog like, 703 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.519 come on all right, to take you thirty seconds, trust me, 704 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.199 it will help you out, or just just it gave 705 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:18.760 me a I think I can put my fingertips on 706 00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:21.880 on the Marines that were in the fight. You can't 707 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.639 do that from from the rear and that that type 708 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:26.159 of fight. I'm not saying there's not a time and 709 00:40:26.199 --> 00:40:29.519 place where you need to be back for command control, 710 00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:32.679 but in that fight, I might as well not have 711 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.039 been there if I wasn't in a position to have 712 00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:40.199 that situational awareness to make an assessment we on track, 713 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.360 not on track? If or not, maybe that's okay, you know, 714 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:47.880 if we're beating the overall intent, shift resources around and 715 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.880 just help the lieutenants so they can help their marines 716 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:52.519 so we can get the job done. 717 00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.719 I'll get your thoughts briefly on some of your subordinates. 718 00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.360 First of all, platoon leader Doug Barnes, what kind of 719 00:40:58.360 --> 00:40:59.159 a leader we'll see? 720 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:04.440 I mean, they're all fantastic, obviously, different different personalities, different upbringings, 721 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.239 different backgrounds. They're different people. You can't treat them all 722 00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:11.400 the same. You can provide the same expectations on the 723 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:14.599 back end, but you know, I mean, just like Doug 724 00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:16.960 Barnes would do with his squad leaders, right each one, 725 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.840 the expectations are the same, but you may word it 726 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.880 a little differently for this one. You may incorporate another 727 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:25.320 little idea for this one. And that's just getting to 728 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:28.440 know your people, which is hard because we're busy. But 729 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.880 Doug's fantastic. He's a great officer. He's done great things 730 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:33.159 for the Marine Corps. I love him, and he's going 731 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:36.000 to continue to continue doing great things for the Marine Corps, 732 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:36.960 hopefully for a long time. 733 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.000 And then some of the squad leaders that the guys 734 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:43.840 clearly revere, from Billy Leo to Anthony Martinez. How much 735 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:45.039 interactions you have with them. 736 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:47.880 Yeah, I mean as much as I could, but never enough, right, 737 00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:52.360 I mean, definitely remember these guys both in training, before 738 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:59.000 deployment and while we're there. It just it's inspiring to 739 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.440 see these young men and women that are in their 740 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:05.360 early twenties, and you compare it to society. And I'm 741 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:10.079 not knocking anything, right, but these young men the amount 742 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:15.000 of responsibility and the harshest, most chaotic, violent environment you 743 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:20.400 could possibly know. We're leaders, they're young men, and they're 744 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:25.320 leading other young men with a life and death responsibility. 745 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.039 So I mean, just frankly, for me, you know what 746 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:32.239 would inspire me when I may have a moment of 747 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:36.360 doubt or just not hesitation, But you know, after a 748 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.920 couple of days of not sleeping and in a fight, 749 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.679 it's it can be a bit exhausting. And then you 750 00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.000 watch you know, start at Leo or Martinez or Meadows, 751 00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:48.320 any anybody. I mean the squad leaders from Lieutenant Acrims Platoon, 752 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.519 Lieutenant Hunts Platoon, and the weapons, all of them. You 753 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:55.119 watch these young leaders and you're like, well, shit, we 754 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.320 can do this all day long and they're never gonna 755 00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:01.079 stop us, just because of them. 756 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.280 Another word that was used to describe you was methodical 757 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.880 in the in the push South, it was slow but 758 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:10.719 very steady in terms of clearing these neighborhoods and what 759 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.039 you explained about the the geometric challenges there. It's understandable 760 00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:18.079 that it was not a sprint, but in terms of 761 00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:21.280 clearing and pushing. 762 00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:25.400 That that was the idea. Of course, the enemy has 763 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:28.079 a really big vote. Like I said, we have our objectives. 764 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.079 They are the opposite of the enemy's objectives. And now 765 00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:35.559 you're a violent competition shrouded in chaos, complexity, friction, all 766 00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:40.679 the human element. All that's happening. So for me, for us, 767 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:43.199 I mean the lieutenants, and we iterated on this is 768 00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:45.960 we can't just go You can't just go willy nilly 769 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:48.760 into the city. I mean you, it will not work. 770 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:55.039 So a level of methodical even if it doesn't look methodical, 771 00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:00.440 because frankly it doesn't, it provided a stabilizing baseline I 772 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:06.320 think for the company to ground you from a larger 773 00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.280 intent perspective, like you know, this is what we're doing. 774 00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:13.000 Just get that done and then we're gonna take care 775 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:16.920 of this. It doesn't always work out that way, uh, 776 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.519 because we have to shift resources or a fight happens 777 00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.000 over here and then just kind of shift shift the 778 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:26.559 guidance if we need to. But you know, tell them 779 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:28.480 and this is I didn't make this term up. It's 780 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.119 slow as smooth and smooth as fast and what we 781 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:35.519 were trying trying to do, and I think the Marines 782 00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:39.400 did a great job as is generate tempo, and tempo 783 00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:42.559 is not just speed, it's you know, speed in relation 784 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:48.000 to the adversary. We're moving quicker, but smoother with a 785 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:52.320 purpose keeping the enemy on their toes. So we maintain 786 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.679 the initiative, that's the idea behind it. It doesn't always 787 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:57.920 work out in that environment for all the reasons we've 788 00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:58.679 we've talked about. 789 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.760 One of the toughest days of the battle was the 790 00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.559 loss of Bradley Faircloth around Thanksgiving of two thousand and four. 791 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:07.920 What do you remember about that day? 792 00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:14.960 So you know, prior to to Bradley, we we lost 793 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:25.360 Travis Desiado as well. Both terrible days, both terrible days. 794 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:30.599 It's not something you you try to prepare for it. 795 00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:33.199 The Marines try to prepare for it. I mean, especially 796 00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:36.840 at this point in the fight. The carnage and the 797 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:42.559 violence made it a parent that plain Marines have been 798 00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.280 wounded at this point, I mean mostly small arms fire 799 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.320 in close range. Some of them were already back in 800 00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:51.239 the fight. Some of them were on their way on 801 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:55.480 their way home to get their good care that they deserved. 802 00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:03.639 It takes a piece out of you. But his our 803 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:08.440 team leader, his squad leader, his platoon commander. Me, We've 804 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:14.880 got Harney other Marines that are still in the fight, 805 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:20.960 and they need their team leader and their squad leader 806 00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.480 in the patun commander, company commander, and battanion commander to 807 00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:28.760 get them to the fight. So it's a it's a tension, 808 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:34.480 it is. Yeah, you leave, you leave a piece of yourself, 809 00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:36.840 at least I did in this city. 810 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:41.039 There's a few more minutes of our conversation. You just 811 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:46.039 recently retired here in twenty twenty four, so twenty additional 812 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.960 years since the Battle of Fallujah, nearly twenty nine years 813 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:55.239 in the corps overall, How did your experience in Fallujah, 814 00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.840 the lessons you learned as a company commander there inform 815 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:00.880 your future assignments. 816 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:05.000 I don't know if it inform my future assignments. That's 817 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:10.880 an interesting question because I would say maybe maybe two things, 818 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.800 and they're kind of combined. Many of my follow on 819 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:19.800 jobs were in training, either as a future commander or 820 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:22.760 in a school. I was the director of the Infantry 821 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.760 Officer course for about a year and a half. So 822 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:28.960 what this experience did was gave me a deeper insight 823 00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:36.599 into risk. You take acceptable risk to accomplison objective. You 824 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:39.599 assess the risk and you mitigate it, and you've got 825 00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:41.519 to be able to extend that out as far as 826 00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:44.280 you possibly can to be effective. But it gave me 827 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.800 greater insights into to how far we could extend that out, 828 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.320 because you have to. This is a risky business, right. 829 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:54.480 If the best way to have no risk, we could 830 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.840 all just stay home. But our nation doesn't need that 831 00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:58.719 from us. I asked us to go forward, right, So 832 00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:02.159 it helped me think through through that, and I think 833 00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:04.760 at least, I hope it may be a better trainer. 834 00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:09.800 Like I said before, soft training doesn't do well in 835 00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:13.119 hard environments, and come, that's a hard environment. It's the 836 00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:17.800 hardest environment known to man, it is, right, So in 837 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.360 ensuring that training is set up so it's as realistic 838 00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:25.719 and challenging and sometimes gut wrenching as possible. Again back 839 00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:28.519 to the risk discussion, how far can you take training 840 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.559 without plopping over the edge. That's bad, right, But you've 841 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:32.960 got to be able to push that edge out as 842 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:36.679 far as you possibly can so that when our nation calls, 843 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:43.079 these marines are confident in themselves, confident in their teammates, 844 00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:46.239 and they're gonna go. They're gonna go kick ass, right. 845 00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:49.599 So I think I left with that, and you know, 846 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:55.840 from a human perspective, just a freaking appreciation for those guys. 847 00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:59.480 I mean, obviously I appreciated them before, but as I've 848 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:02.679 gotten all, you know, my son is now a marine, right, 849 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:08.079 just I love them, and I just hope our nation 850 00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:13.719 continues to produce these young men and women who will, 851 00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:15.800 you know, raise their right hand, wear the cloth of 852 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:23.719 the nation, that rite that blank check and execute very 853 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:28.360 often in a violent environment without hesitation. So the appreciation 854 00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.719 for that just it continues to grow. 855 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:33.719 Any particular advice based on your experience that you gave 856 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.280 your son as he pursued becoming a Marine. 857 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.119 Officer, I think he's probably had enough advice for me 858 00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:42.119 over the years. But he had the opportunity to spend 859 00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:47.039 some incredibly valuable time with some of these young marines 860 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.119 that I served with. And I did that on purpose 861 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:53.599 because one, they're the best this nation has to offer, 862 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:58.000 and their advice to him, just just watching him talk 863 00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:01.960 was was really price. You can't get that out of a schoolhouse. 864 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:06.199 It's just, you know, like a Mason, just be genuine, 865 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:13.519 just be you and care. From that stems everything. Caring 866 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:17.400 leads to incredibly realistic, challenging training and all the things. 867 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:18.440 I just thought it was brilliant. 868 00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:20.719 Last question, what are you most proud of from your 869 00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.440 distinguished twenty nine years in the corps? 870 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.920 Most proud that I had the honor and the privilege 871 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:33.480 to I was in a leadership position, but frankly to 872 00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:40.679 serve alongside these guys, and I think most most officers 873 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:45.079 would say something similar to that. I mean, it's absolutely 874 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:47.440 you know, our privilege, Like I'm the probably the luckiest 875 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:48.000 guy in the world. 876 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:50.639 Colonel, we thank you for your time today and we 877 00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:53.039 thank you very very much for your service to our country. 878 00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:53.400 Thank you. 879 00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.039 That's retired to US Marine Corps Colonel Aaron Cunningham, who 880 00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:01.039 commanded Alpha Company, first Battalion, eighth Marines in the Second 881 00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:04.760 Battle of Fallujah November and December two thousand and four. 882 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:18.800 I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this 883 00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:22.159 is Greg Corumbus, and thanks for listening to Veterans Chronicles, 884 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:26.360 a presentation of the American Veterans Center. For more information, 885 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:31.320 please visit American Veteranscenter dot org. You can also follow 886 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.800 the American Veterans Center on Facebook and on Twitter. We're 887 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:39.639 at AVC update. Subscribe to the American Veterans Center YouTube 888 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.119 channel for full oral histories and special features, and of course, 889 00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:47.960 please subscribe to the Veterans Chronicles podcast wherever you get 890 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.599 your podcasts. Thanks again for listening, and please join us 891 00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:53.639 next time for Veterans Chronicles.