WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Are we going to see whether the starmer, prime Ministership, presidency,

2
00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:07.440
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is last to the end of this recording.

3
00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, isn't it exciting? I mean, it's been like an

4
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.320
<v Speaker 2>episode of Dallas or something, hasn't it.

5
00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like an episode of Crossroads.

6
00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.559
<v Speaker 3>Do I have to ask you questions about how what

7
00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:23.640
<v Speaker 3>the hell is happening? I don't think anyone knows today.

8
00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:32.719
<v Speaker 2>What is quite fascinating is I was out dry Stone

9
00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:37.280
<v Speaker 2>walling today and I was without communications because I am

10
00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:41.520
<v Speaker 2>in the deepest dales, and he was quite refreshing. I

11
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.479
<v Speaker 2>had no idea. I thought, you know, we could have

12
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:46.399
<v Speaker 2>been prime minister less and I could have been none

13
00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.359
<v Speaker 2>the wiser or cared less.

14
00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:53.200
<v Speaker 3>Can we doesn't one takeover from the other? Is that

15
00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:56.960
<v Speaker 3>how that works? Can we just be like a non

16
00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.759
<v Speaker 3>we just be like a captionalist ship at sea?

17
00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, we've been a captain of the ship for quite

18
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:02.479
<v Speaker 2>a long while.

19
00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.640
<v Speaker 1>To be fair, I think what it's proving is we

20
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.920
<v Speaker 1>are not a real country anymore. We haven't been a

21
00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:12.000
<v Speaker 1>real country for a significant amount of time, and I'm

22
00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.439
<v Speaker 1>starting to think we do actually live in a simulation. Yeah,

23
00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:16.560
<v Speaker 1>because this can't be real.

24
00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:20.959
<v Speaker 2>Italians are starting to watch. You know, Italians now make

25
00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.079
<v Speaker 2>jokes about you know, people who have lots of girlfriends.

26
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.920
<v Speaker 2>You see, who've had more girlfriends in Britain's are prime ministers? Know,

27
00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:31.280
<v Speaker 2>it's ridiculous, isn't it like worse than the Italians?

28
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.519
<v Speaker 1>When the Italians are taking the piss that is. Yeah,

29
00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.120
<v Speaker 1>there's no coming back from that, really, no, No.

30
00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:43.359
<v Speaker 2>Interestingly, do you know we've had in Britain We had

31
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Margaret Thatcher, John Major, Tony Blair all went through and

32
00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.879
<v Speaker 2>did about ten years each and then you got this lot.

33
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:02.519
<v Speaker 2>We've had seven prime ministers, seven in four years. Four

34
00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.560
<v Speaker 2>years this fastic. Well, it'd be seven if if Starmer goes,

35
00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:08.280
<v Speaker 2>which looks like are.

36
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:13.360
<v Speaker 3>They talking about potentially getting old head back? Apparently someone

37
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.759
<v Speaker 3>said that the other day. You know that he's in

38
00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:16.919
<v Speaker 3>the he's in the running.

39
00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they brought Gordon Brown back, which I thought we

40
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:22.159
<v Speaker 1>had seen the last of Gordon Brown.

41
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:26.319
<v Speaker 2>But no, no, he's like, he's back, he's live.

42
00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Brown does not go down well.

43
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, So no, it was I don't know, He's The

44
00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:36.080
<v Speaker 2>honest answer, Richard, is that I think what might well

45
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.000
<v Speaker 2>happen is that this show is about an hour long,

46
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:43.240
<v Speaker 2>so we may by the time it's finished have a

47
00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.560
<v Speaker 2>new Preme Minister, or by the time it goes live

48
00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.800
<v Speaker 2>to our patrons on Thursday, we may have a new

49
00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Preme Minister, or by Friday kiss start and may still

50
00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:54.240
<v Speaker 2>be there. I mean it may be that he's actually

51
00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:56.520
<v Speaker 2>sat there in ten down in the streets saying I've

52
00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:00.280
<v Speaker 2>just got the curtain stub. That was no way I'm going, yeah,

53
00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:00.879
<v Speaker 2>it's necessary.

54
00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:06.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to say it's not going to happen to everyone. Yeah, yeah,

55
00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:11.199
<v Speaker 3>still there, still there in in weeks to come. I

56
00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:14.599
<v Speaker 3>don't know. I just I just feel because there's not

57
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.879
<v Speaker 3>really I was looking at the the I was studying

58
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:23.159
<v Speaker 3>the form of the runners and riders, and yeah.

59
00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:25.919
<v Speaker 1>You've been on poly Market placing bet, haven't you.

60
00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:31.800
<v Speaker 3>What's tempted? I like the look of old Where's Anderson? No,

61
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:37.280
<v Speaker 3>not that one Wesley Snipes, No, the other the ship one,

62
00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:41.520
<v Speaker 3>Wesley Streeting that one. Yeah, but then no one's got

63
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.759
<v Speaker 3>any confidence in that feller eva have they?

64
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.759
<v Speaker 2>No one's got any confidence anything. No one's even got

65
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.960
<v Speaker 2>a confidence the farts can be done without soiling their trousers.

66
00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Somebody has described the Wesley Streeting takeover as shipping your

67
00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:01.840
<v Speaker 3>pants and then changing your shirt. It it doesn't.

68
00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.919
<v Speaker 1>Seem like badly you do it. You know, if you're

69
00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.840
<v Speaker 1>lying down at the time, then there maybe collateral damage

70
00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:11.479
<v Speaker 1>and the shirt, the shirt might need another go.

71
00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's probably got somewhere in it.

72
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Because for context, we're recording this on Tuesday evening, so

73
00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:24.199
<v Speaker 1>it's Tuesday, the twelfth of May. It's about quarter to

74
00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.319
<v Speaker 1>eight now for various reasons, So if you're listening to

75
00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:30.839
<v Speaker 1>this on Thursday or Friday, then yes, you know what's

76
00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.519
<v Speaker 1>already happened, whether it's nothing or whether we're in civil war.

77
00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.680
<v Speaker 1>And because of the nature of podcasts, you may have

78
00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:41.000
<v Speaker 1>picked this up in twenty twenty seven somewhere and this

79
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.800
<v Speaker 1>is all history to you. In which case, can somebody

80
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.959
<v Speaker 1>cover my shift in the salt mine in the gooleg please,

81
00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.920
<v Speaker 1>because I don't think I'm going to be able to

82
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.199
<v Speaker 1>make it. I've got a I've still got a gammy leg.

83
00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:55.560
<v Speaker 2>And if anyone is actually going to send me a

84
00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.959
<v Speaker 2>file in a cake, I like carrot carrots my favorite cake,

85
00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:04.639
<v Speaker 2>So thank you very much, and I'm sure that I

86
00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:08.120
<v Speaker 2>will fit right in in Pentonville. It'll be fine.

87
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:10.519
<v Speaker 3>I'll go for lemon drizzle.

88
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.519
<v Speaker 2>What with a file? Don't be silly with carrot cakes?

89
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:17.600
<v Speaker 3>Round, isn't it? Lemon drizzle you can get in that

90
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.720
<v Speaker 3>loaf tin, so like you get a decent sized file

91
00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:21.199
<v Speaker 3>as well.

92
00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, look, what you're mistaken is the fact that the

93
00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:32.240
<v Speaker 2>slight metallic tang that would be left behind by a

94
00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.959
<v Speaker 2>file is canceled out by the carrot. If you have

95
00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.759
<v Speaker 2>lemon drizzle, it would just be nothing but like a

96
00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:44.079
<v Speaker 2>like sucking on lemons because it's a double tang. You know,

97
00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.120
<v Speaker 2>you've got to think these things through before you put

98
00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.399
<v Speaker 2>your prison cake requests out there.

99
00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Callum, I'm glad you're back this week, Richard, so we

100
00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.000
<v Speaker 1>don't have the utter bollocks that we were talking quite

101
00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.199
<v Speaker 1>in previous episodes where you weren't here.

102
00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Do you know, I have been very good. I always

103
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.920
<v Speaker 2>listen and Country Slime when it comes out on a Thursday. Well,

104
00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.519
<v Speaker 2>I see, I do you know, because I just like.

105
00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.240
<v Speaker 3>To hear I'm not on it. I quite like listening

106
00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:09.839
<v Speaker 3>to you too.

107
00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Really, I'm glad that's at least one of one of

108
00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:13.720
<v Speaker 2>you that does.

109
00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.040
<v Speaker 1>I've never listened back to any one of our episodes.

110
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:22.399
<v Speaker 2>That's a lie. Really, I'm sure there must be one

111
00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:23.639
<v Speaker 2>or two. I mean, have we've done that.

112
00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:26.000
<v Speaker 1>We're into the eighties.

113
00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:29.959
<v Speaker 2>He's like, that's I mean, honestly, we've been. This podcast

114
00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.759
<v Speaker 2>has been going longer than the Prime Minister and the

115
00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:34.319
<v Speaker 2>one before that, and the one before that and the

116
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.279
<v Speaker 2>one before that. That's pretty cool. Really, you think, yes,

117
00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:41.120
<v Speaker 2>where have you been me? All right, I'll tell you

118
00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.319
<v Speaker 2>where I am. I've been on my adventures. I have

119
00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:52.319
<v Speaker 2>been a bit like on my rural Rides. It's fantastic,

120
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:58.279
<v Speaker 2>right right, dating app we all need. No there's a

121
00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:02.199
<v Speaker 2>there's a wonderful author who people might be surprised that

122
00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:08.680
<v Speaker 2>I like, called William Cobbitt And William COBBITTT was a

123
00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:16.920
<v Speaker 2>writer in the sort of late late eighteenth early nineteenth centuries,

124
00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and he was a rural writer and a radical MP.

125
00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:26.639
<v Speaker 2>They say that he was the first literally lefty MP

126
00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.040
<v Speaker 2>that we had, and he looked after the rural paw

127
00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and stood up for their rights and whatnot. And he

128
00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.879
<v Speaker 2>did this book called Rural Rides where he basically went

129
00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:42.240
<v Speaker 2>around largely the south of England and commenting upon what

130
00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.360
<v Speaker 2>he saw. And I'm sort of doing that at the moment,

131
00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:49.639
<v Speaker 2>but I'm up at the moment up north. So I

132
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:54.519
<v Speaker 2>am currently researching for my next book. And earlier in

133
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:58.319
<v Speaker 2>the week I was looking at read beds, which were fantastic.

134
00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.480
<v Speaker 2>So I was looking at read cutter and how reed

135
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:06.639
<v Speaker 2>beds are managed, and bittens and cranes and marsh harriers

136
00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:10.639
<v Speaker 2>and bearded tits and all sorts of fantastic things at

137
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:15.240
<v Speaker 2>RSPB Lake and heath. And now I am sad looking

138
00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:20.120
<v Speaker 2>out at the beautiful scenery of the And today I

139
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.959
<v Speaker 2>have been giving dry stone with a lovely chap here

140
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.519
<v Speaker 2>who owns an estate, who was showing me how to

141
00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.480
<v Speaker 2>repair a dry stone wall. So I've got my hands

142
00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.519
<v Speaker 2>dirty and it's sort of a bit like hedge laying,

143
00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.720
<v Speaker 2>but with stone and no bill hooks or chainsaws. So

144
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I've been finding out things I knew nothing about and

145
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I now do know about them.

146
00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:45.480
<v Speaker 3>Can you tell me is that what's the skill set

147
00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.759
<v Speaker 3>needed for? Is it technique? Is it broad strength?

148
00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:48.840
<v Speaker 1>VI?

149
00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:50.320
<v Speaker 3>Is it material knowledge?

150
00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.840
<v Speaker 2>What's the fascinating making? Right? Okay? So the dry stone

151
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.759
<v Speaker 2>wall is obviously it depends upon the stone that's local.

152
00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:04.360
<v Speaker 2>So I've been between two dales and where I am

153
00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:09.559
<v Speaker 2>at the moment there is limestone and there is also

154
00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:15.159
<v Speaker 2>some slightly frangible sort of sandstone, and it depends what

155
00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.360
<v Speaker 2>the stone is like in that local area. Because of

156
00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:21.279
<v Speaker 2>course they didn't lug all these stones from down the

157
00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.480
<v Speaker 2>bottom up to the top. They used a stone. Now,

158
00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:27.480
<v Speaker 2>the stone walls there were no because okay, here's hold

159
00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.639
<v Speaker 2>the front page, climate change denial time. It used to

160
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.519
<v Speaker 2>be a lot warmer here right in the Dales. So

161
00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.440
<v Speaker 2>therefore a lot of the uplands weren't actually all covered

162
00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:41.120
<v Speaker 2>in trees. They may have been at some point, but

163
00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.399
<v Speaker 2>they were actually arable land. And so to make arable

164
00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:47.159
<v Speaker 2>land work you have to be stone it. So they'd

165
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:49.720
<v Speaker 2>moved the stones out of this field so they could

166
00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:54.120
<v Speaker 2>grow crops as well as Gray's livestock here, but to

167
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.759
<v Speaker 2>graze crops. So they moved the stones, and they thought,

168
00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.559
<v Speaker 2>what's a good way of going and fencing in this livestock.

169
00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.600
<v Speaker 2>You aren't going to grow hedges up here because it's

170
00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:05.480
<v Speaker 2>too high. So what did they do. They used all

171
00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.240
<v Speaker 2>those stones that they pulled out to the ground to

172
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.559
<v Speaker 2>start building dry stone walls. So I was stood today

173
00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:17.720
<v Speaker 2>next to a Bronze age dry stone wall, which this

174
00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:20.639
<v Speaker 2>one i'd actually tumbled down, But there's miles of them,

175
00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.559
<v Speaker 2>and on this farm that I'm on, there's eighty miles

176
00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:29.480
<v Speaker 2>eight zero miles of dry stone wall. And basically, if

177
00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:33.279
<v Speaker 2>you don't repair a dry stone wall pretty damn quick,

178
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.279
<v Speaker 2>they start tumbling down very quickly. Then you've got a

179
00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:41.480
<v Speaker 2>major job to do. And there are very big shortage

180
00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:44.879
<v Speaker 2>of dry stone wallers. Most of the farmers do their

181
00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.039
<v Speaker 2>own repairs, but you only learn from your father. So

182
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.519
<v Speaker 2>if you lose a generation out of farming they decide

183
00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:51.919
<v Speaker 2>that they want to go into the game or something

184
00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:55.600
<v Speaker 2>like that, the skill set dies. So there's all these

185
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.279
<v Speaker 2>dry stone walls and there's such an important part of

186
00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:05.960
<v Speaker 2>this landscape, both you know, physically, historically, ecologically, and also

187
00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.519
<v Speaker 2>of tourism. People just look at them. And I went

188
00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:14.039
<v Speaker 2>into a tea shop today and twenty one different postcards

189
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.879
<v Speaker 2>on the wall, eighteen of those twenty one of all

190
00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.120
<v Speaker 2>sort of showing dry stone walls. Yeh, get this, Richard?

191
00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:25.120
<v Speaker 2>So I know that in Wales, yes, I get this.

192
00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I know in Wales that the hedging grant is slightly

193
00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:34.080
<v Speaker 2>lower than it is in England. Right, but get this,

194
00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:39.240
<v Speaker 2>how much do you think that DEFRA will pay you

195
00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:44.000
<v Speaker 2>to repair a dry stone wall in England. What do

196
00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:45.399
<v Speaker 2>you how much do you think do you think of

197
00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:47.639
<v Speaker 2>per meter per meter?

198
00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, twelve pounds eighty seven.

199
00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Callum, callum. How much do you think that a dry

200
00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.600
<v Speaker 2>stone will great big lumps of stone that you've got

201
00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:00.600
<v Speaker 2>to go and try and put back up a cultural

202
00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:05.039
<v Speaker 2>and historical and ecological icon of the Dales? How much.

203
00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:10.240
<v Speaker 3>The tiles on my floor cost? Sixty pounds per square meter?

204
00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Delay? Yeah, that's good, that's good. That's good metric.

205
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.039
<v Speaker 3>That's my kitchen floor. So I'm going to say what

206
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.240
<v Speaker 3>he should be worth. It's probably one hundred pounds a

207
00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.000
<v Speaker 3>square meter. Bear in mind that it's not as easy

208
00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:25.200
<v Speaker 3>as putting some tile adhesive and slapping a tile on

209
00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:30.679
<v Speaker 3>the top. So final answer, one hundred pounds.

210
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Amy has come in to the chat and she

211
00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:39.279
<v Speaker 2>has said six pounds forty nine, which is the SFI price.

212
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.240
<v Speaker 2>So six pounds forty nine per meter bearing them on

213
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the head is thirteen pounds fifty two. But if you're

214
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.200
<v Speaker 2>still doing it and you're actually stuck in a higher

215
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.919
<v Speaker 2>level stewardship grant, it's thirty pence thirty p that's yes,

216
00:12:55.320 --> 00:13:00.440
<v Speaker 2>thirty p per meter is what his Majesty's government think

217
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.840
<v Speaker 2>it's worth for someone as highly skilled as a waller

218
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.159
<v Speaker 2>to go and pay them via that thirty p.

219
00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.080
<v Speaker 1>How many minutes is that on minimum wage?

220
00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, here's an interesting thing to do. We timed it,

221
00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:18.840
<v Speaker 2>so we repaired a bit of wall which was about

222
00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:26.679
<v Speaker 2>two meters wide. Sixty p's worth took skilled waller an hour.

223
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:32.240
<v Speaker 2>So there we go. That's that's how much the state

224
00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:36.600
<v Speaker 2>values the uplands thirty p. Yeah.

225
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.120
<v Speaker 3>Is there not some kind of lawsuit that we can

226
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:46.000
<v Speaker 3>all get involved in where we take whoever this is

227
00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.039
<v Speaker 3>to court for slave labor?

228
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:51.639
<v Speaker 2>We just want to go and take them out. So well,

229
00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>obviously the farmers are having to pay out their own pocket.

230
00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:59.120
<v Speaker 2>And it's one of the classic things that I am

231
00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.240
<v Speaker 2>seeing in the research for this book is I'm looking

232
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:07.279
<v Speaker 2>at all these amazing skilled people who create incredible habitats

233
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:13.159
<v Speaker 2>and basically they're just ignored because they're just scum as

234
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:17.679
<v Speaker 2>far as politicians are concerned. And it's an eye opener

235
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:19.759
<v Speaker 2>coming here, just as much as it was an eye

236
00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.000
<v Speaker 2>opener going to read beds, and I'm sure it will

237
00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.440
<v Speaker 2>be an eye opener and countless of these things. So

238
00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm very lucky to be doing what I'm doing at

239
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.039
<v Speaker 2>the moment, because I'm meeting lovely people who have highly skilled,

240
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:36.360
<v Speaker 2>very practical and they just wander around shaking their heads

241
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>going oh yeah, but shit really listens it. But they're

242
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:45.120
<v Speaker 2>just quite pragmatic that their their lives are treated as

243
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:46.799
<v Speaker 2>thirty p a meter.

244
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.240
<v Speaker 1>It's this weird thing about the uplands of particularly. Just

245
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.080
<v Speaker 1>take England on its own. You draw a line that

246
00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.759
<v Speaker 1>comes across from like Blackpool and just sort of skirts

247
00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.559
<v Speaker 1>the top of Manchester and goes across to up a

248
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.639
<v Speaker 1>bit and maybe past York and to the coast there.

249
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Almost everything north of there is upland farming. Isn't every

250
00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.559
<v Speaker 1>rural bit of it is upland farming. So it's the

251
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.200
<v Speaker 1>top bit of the weather map. It's just ignored entirely

252
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>in terms. Because there was a thing recently for looking

253
00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:24.960
<v Speaker 1>at upland farms that the DEFRA site won't take the

254
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:30.639
<v Speaker 1>calculations for the acreage of shared or tenanted upland grazing.

255
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.600
<v Speaker 2>No, correct, it won't.

256
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.159
<v Speaker 1>Take that huge acreage because it just says, oh you

257
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>must be basically, or the Duke of Westminster if your

258
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>graze on the open fell.

259
00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:44.679
<v Speaker 2>It's a very bizarre way to run a country because

260
00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:49.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but you're right, it's only when you come

261
00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:54.559
<v Speaker 2>up here that you realize of what are forgotten but

262
00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:01.000
<v Speaker 2>also thoroughly bullied part of Britain. It is because everyone

263
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.879
<v Speaker 2>wants a piece of the uplands. They all think that

264
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.840
<v Speaker 2>they know best, They all think that they and that

265
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.799
<v Speaker 2>they will say all sorts of things. I mean the

266
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.799
<v Speaker 2>thing that the amount of wildlife I've seen up here

267
00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:16.120
<v Speaker 2>is phenomenal. I mean, you want curlews, that's they're up

268
00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:19.200
<v Speaker 2>they're here. You know, they're literally getting mobbed by curlies.

269
00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:23.159
<v Speaker 2>You want peewits, Yeah, that's where pee wits are. You

270
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>want wheat tears, You want red grouse, you want black grouse,

271
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.399
<v Speaker 2>you want birds prey, They're all here. I mean that literally,

272
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.919
<v Speaker 2>the place is buzzing. You know, you went up, the

273
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.799
<v Speaker 2>pair of you, up to to to the more to

274
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.360
<v Speaker 2>watch the black grouse leg. You know what it's like

275
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.320
<v Speaker 2>up there.

276
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.399
<v Speaker 3>No shortage of wildlife up there.

277
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:49.200
<v Speaker 2>No which And you then go and start asking yourself

278
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:50.159
<v Speaker 2>what is it?

279
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:50.480
<v Speaker 1>What?

280
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.679
<v Speaker 2>What what have they got? And then you twig. Only

281
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:57.120
<v Speaker 2>when you come up here you go, oh I get it.

282
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.559
<v Speaker 2>No one lives here. So what you're going to do

283
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 2>is you're going to go and bully them. And because

284
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.440
<v Speaker 2>quite often very wealthy men own the land but everyone

285
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.359
<v Speaker 2>else is working, you're going to try and hurt the

286
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.200
<v Speaker 2>wealthy men by ruining the lives of all these working

287
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:18.400
<v Speaker 2>class people. I see right, Okay, yes, that's how it works.

288
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:19.720
<v Speaker 2>In great well done.

289
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to put together myn ex scribehound article. And

290
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:26.720
<v Speaker 1>so you know, you're wrestling with a sort of a

291
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.200
<v Speaker 1>how do I word this? And it's not a left

292
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.640
<v Speaker 1>versus right thing? Politics isn't that anymore. And it's sort

293
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.960
<v Speaker 1>of particularly this campaigning type of politics. You can split

294
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.519
<v Speaker 1>it down into at least one side of it is

295
00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.559
<v Speaker 1>that type of person, the sort of person who would say,

296
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.599
<v Speaker 1>you know that all the uplands are somehow chemicals soaked wastelands.

297
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.480
<v Speaker 1>They're the sort of person who looks at every argument

298
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.759
<v Speaker 1>and says, okay, on this argument, does one side of

299
00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.680
<v Speaker 1>the argument have more power in my perception of the

300
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.480
<v Speaker 1>world than the other? If so, then the person with

301
00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:09.799
<v Speaker 1>more power must be evil. Yeah, And that's that's everything

302
00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.519
<v Speaker 1>in their life comes down to. That is, does one

303
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.279
<v Speaker 1>person have more power than the other on this, okay, Well,

304
00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.599
<v Speaker 1>the person I perceive to have less power is always

305
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.640
<v Speaker 1>in the right no matter what. That's kind of how

306
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:25.319
<v Speaker 1>a lot of this discourse goes. And you look at

307
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.759
<v Speaker 1>that and go, oh, it's bat shit. Oh right, I

308
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.119
<v Speaker 1>can't work with that because you can't convince somebody out

309
00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:31.359
<v Speaker 1>of that.

310
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:32.640
<v Speaker 2>No, it's crazy.

311
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.039
<v Speaker 1>And the Uplands bit is really because you're coming. You're

312
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.240
<v Speaker 1>coming here, I am, and I'm introducing you to some

313
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.920
<v Speaker 1>of my my yocal friends who are both listening to

314
00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:46.359
<v Speaker 1>this I think, so hopefully recognize yourselves.

315
00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Be gentle with me.

316
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, we're going to take you as well to an

317
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>area of outstanding naturally national beauty, or rather no natural beauty,

318
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.599
<v Speaker 1>not national beauty, now a national landscape. But I'm going

319
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.440
<v Speaker 1>to take you to the car park of one of those,

320
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>because it's high on upland and it used to be

321
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.599
<v Speaker 1>sheep farming. It used to be shooting at one point

322
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.200
<v Speaker 1>as well, and now it's there for recreation. And we're

323
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 1>going to sit upon the hillside and get covered in

324
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.559
<v Speaker 1>ticks and sit there with thermal imaging and not see

325
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.880
<v Speaker 1>anything apart from mountain bikers and dogs.

326
00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:22.359
<v Speaker 2>That's it.

327
00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.920
<v Speaker 1>That's the only wildlife we'll see over huge acreages.

328
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.079
<v Speaker 3>Is that because just because of people.

329
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>People, because the land juice has changed to recreation is

330
00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>the primary use for it.

331
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to just chat myself straight into a similar

332
00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:46.359
<v Speaker 3>observation and it's going to divert wildly into into what

333
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:47.039
<v Speaker 3>I want to say.

334
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Now for.

335
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Good, let's make this a calum show.

336
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.839
<v Speaker 3>I took the hicic thermal out the other day and

337
00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:02.240
<v Speaker 3>I saw two foxes and three cubs in a den

338
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.279
<v Speaker 3>down the back of someone's garden. So this is quite

339
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:12.359
<v Speaker 3>a nice little area. But they grazed horses on there.

340
00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.640
<v Speaker 3>They've got lots of gypsy horses and there's now there's

341
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.880
<v Speaker 3>lots of them. They're they're tethered up and they get

342
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.119
<v Speaker 3>them and they move them every so often. And there's

343
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.440
<v Speaker 3>lots of horses on there. And there's there's some wildlife.

344
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.119
<v Speaker 3>The pond of which I spoke about probably a couple

345
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:31.880
<v Speaker 3>of episodes Ago offers a great habitat for wildlife and

346
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:38.319
<v Speaker 3>an old resident goose somewhere. He had a Pretto loves

347
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:42.279
<v Speaker 3>resident Geeze. He had a Doris somewhere, and they had

348
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:48.799
<v Speaker 3>three three goslins on the pond and not about three

349
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.200
<v Speaker 3>nights ago, I come out, had the hick fermal and

350
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:56.480
<v Speaker 3>I watched three of the fox cubs playing and two

351
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.759
<v Speaker 3>foxes and then on the opposite side of the field

352
00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:02.079
<v Speaker 3>another fire, which I assume I don't really know much

353
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.319
<v Speaker 3>about the fox patterns, but like I guess the male

354
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.880
<v Speaker 3>probably goes out and has a little hunt around while

355
00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:08.960
<v Speaker 3>the cubs and male.

356
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.759
<v Speaker 2>Has nothing to do with the rearing of cubs really,

357
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.880
<v Speaker 2>so that no, he's coming around trying to mate with

358
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.920
<v Speaker 2>the vixen because she comes into season more or less

359
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:19.799
<v Speaker 2>after she's.

360
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm afraid the animals a farthing Wood was not a documentary.

361
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:24.880
<v Speaker 2>No, they are absent tee fathers.

362
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.839
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but it's difficult to spot that just from a

363
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:28.920
<v Speaker 1>simple observation though.

364
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because there was there was another fox, or there

365
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.000
<v Speaker 3>was two foxes, I assume.

366
00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.119
<v Speaker 2>He was trying to go and mate with the with

367
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.680
<v Speaker 2>the vixen who is feeding those.

368
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Cubs, right, Yeah, so I'm observing so in the space

369
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:50.079
<v Speaker 3>of what three hundred meters a large number of foxes.

370
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:53.559
<v Speaker 3>We've got like seven foxes in three hundred meters, which

371
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.640
<v Speaker 3>is quite a lot. And then I come I come

372
00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 3>along the next day and this is only a small

373
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.079
<v Speaker 3>field as well, come along the next day and all

374
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.680
<v Speaker 3>the goslings are now gone. They've taken all three of them.

375
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:11.559
<v Speaker 3>So we get lovely one lot of wildlife and the

376
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.319
<v Speaker 3>you don't know, it's the fox that took them. Could

377
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 3>have been any number of things, but you get one.

378
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.240
<v Speaker 3>One crack at the whip and that's it. It's gone.

379
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.599
<v Speaker 3>And as a result you go there, you see deer

380
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.519
<v Speaker 3>that end up coming out of the wood because they've

381
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.680
<v Speaker 3>got nothing to feed on in the wood into into

382
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.079
<v Speaker 3>the field and they graze on the field. And then

383
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.119
<v Speaker 3>you've got the apex predator that is the fox, and

384
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:39.920
<v Speaker 3>then not a lot else.

385
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, probably some probably some jack doors, a few

386
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:47.359
<v Speaker 2>cruise map pis absolutely loads.

387
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:48.480
<v Speaker 3>To jack doors and crash.

388
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Miso predators.

389
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it's utterly pants, isn't it utterly pants?

390
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.559
<v Speaker 1>This is such the problem we have in the UK

391
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.799
<v Speaker 1>that we don't have the big apex predators. And no,

392
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.319
<v Speaker 1>that is not an endorsement of releasing wolves.

393
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, get some links in there.

394
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Although I do think releasing wolves into the center of

395
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 1>London might be quite good fun. We have all the

396
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:21.599
<v Speaker 1>sort of the middling predators which are generalists and they'll

397
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.720
<v Speaker 1>eat everything and when they get off one species or

398
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:27.440
<v Speaker 1>go on to another, which means they quite like being

399
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.839
<v Speaker 1>around humans because we leave a lot of waste behind

400
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.599
<v Speaker 1>and create a lot of food opportunities, and they can

401
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.160
<v Speaker 1>sustain numbers on anything. The problem is that anything is

402
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.160
<v Speaker 1>all of our songbirds, all of our red listed species,

403
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>or everything that's smaller than them. And this is one

404
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.839
<v Speaker 1>of the problems of there's not good wildlife area and

405
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.400
<v Speaker 1>bad wildlife area. It's you will have wildlife in most places.

406
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just what do you want? What do we want

407
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.359
<v Speaker 1>for the country, what do we want to live here?

408
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

409
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that's that question is always answered by management,

410
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.160
<v Speaker 1>and management involves people out there doing things which is

411
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.839
<v Speaker 1>often not well liked because it's not nature being left alone.

412
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Holy And I think one of the interesting things that

413
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.519
<v Speaker 2>I discovered when I was doing my bitten research and

414
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.440
<v Speaker 2>then to read BEDS is that I went to one

415
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Speaker 2>supposedly exemplary one of the oldest nature reserves in the

416
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:34.599
<v Speaker 2>southern half of Britain, and it was devoid of many

417
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 2>of the red listed species, and because of the way

418
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:44.799
<v Speaker 2>they managed it in a rewilding model, it was devoid. Interestingly,

419
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:52.119
<v Speaker 2>an RSPB similar habitat after the same species was hooching

420
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.319
<v Speaker 2>with these red listed species, I mean the reddest of

421
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.839
<v Speaker 2>red listed species, and when it comes to wetland birds,

422
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and that's because they did exactly a three legged stool

423
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.519
<v Speaker 2>form of management, i e. That they built superb habitat,

424
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.880
<v Speaker 2>they had exemplary food sources, and as they say, if

425
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:17.440
<v Speaker 2>you'd want a freedom of information request, you can see

426
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>all their predator control records. Is they control foxes, which

427
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.839
<v Speaker 2>are the main predator for these two red listed species.

428
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.759
<v Speaker 2>You can mitigate against it because they keep this wetland wet,

429
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.200
<v Speaker 2>but they can still get there. And in the case

430
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.680
<v Speaker 2>of the crane, which they've got, which they didn't have

431
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:39.079
<v Speaker 2>to reintroduce, they built the habitat and the crane came.

432
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.519
<v Speaker 2>But they have a gestation period of three months for

433
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>their eggs. Three months. That's ridiculously long for a bird.

434
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.519
<v Speaker 2>And they laid two eggs and usually only one will hatch.

435
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:54.359
<v Speaker 2>So therefore, if you have a fox pre date one

436
00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:01.279
<v Speaker 2>crane nest, you've basically stopped that productivity for an entire year.

437
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:07.039
<v Speaker 2>So therefore the RSPB assessed it, and they probably assessed

438
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 2>it far more than possibly we would do. But they

439
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.400
<v Speaker 2>have to because of the situation. Now they don't hide

440
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.079
<v Speaker 2>that they do this, but they equally so don't overly

441
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:22.480
<v Speaker 2>advertise it. And I think that's a shame because they

442
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 2>have got the wildlife. You know, people slag off the

443
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:29.200
<v Speaker 2>RSPB showing me the birds. Okay, go to Lake and

444
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>heath Fen and you will see them. It's remarkable. But

445
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.480
<v Speaker 2>they're got them because they have done the three legged stool.

446
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, hats off to the RSPB. They have

447
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.039
<v Speaker 2>done something. Just a shame that they're not actually quite

448
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.960
<v Speaker 2>ballsy enough at their head office level to say this

449
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.839
<v Speaker 2>is how we succeeded here because they slightly hide one

450
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 2>leg of the stool, but they do it, and you know,

451
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:57.799
<v Speaker 2>the proof of the pudding is there for all to see.

452
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:00.079
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to see a pristine wetland and

453
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:04.119
<v Speaker 2>managed to perfection, Lake and Heathen is a place to go.

454
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:10.079
<v Speaker 3>These RAF bases seem to be absolutely stuff with wildlife.

455
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Curlews yeah everywhere if you want. I was approached actually

456
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 2>about ten years ago by someone to do a curlew

457
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:25.039
<v Speaker 2>reintroduction project at Fleet Barn, I think, and they were

458
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 2>getting because basically get this, you know, the curlew is

459
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:34.119
<v Speaker 2>an endangered threatened species. Well, the problem is curlews love

460
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the great big grassy areas by airports and raf places. Yeah,

461
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.359
<v Speaker 2>well the problem is a curlew's a pretty big bird

462
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:49.079
<v Speaker 2>and jets and big birds do not go very well together,

463
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:56.720
<v Speaker 2>so it's quite a sizeable airport in the south east

464
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:02.119
<v Speaker 2>of England was getting rid of curlews because they constituted

465
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 2>a danger to life because they didn't want them nesting there.

466
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.359
<v Speaker 2>And someone said, would you go and try a curly

467
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:13.960
<v Speaker 2>you restarting project at flea Bomb and then we assessed him.

468
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.039
<v Speaker 2>We thought, no, it's not actually going to fit into

469
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the plan. But yeah, I mean, you know, so when

470
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:23.559
<v Speaker 2>you look at species reintroductions and stuff like that or

471
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.400
<v Speaker 2>recovery projects, is that you know. I'm surely everybody who

472
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:30.319
<v Speaker 2>probably is jumping on their flight to lands a rotty

473
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.160
<v Speaker 2>doesn't realize that you're doing so at the expense of

474
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the poor old curlews had his egg salted because you

475
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.559
<v Speaker 2>might possibly fly into the air bus and go and

476
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:44.519
<v Speaker 2>cause it to crash down in a fiery ball of flame.

477
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.880
<v Speaker 1>I have a friend who his full time job, he

478
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:55.039
<v Speaker 1>works for the mod and he basically spends a third

479
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 1>of a day at one airfield, a third of a

480
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>day at another airfield, and just moves between this little

481
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.200
<v Speaker 1>triangle of airfield. Wouldn't say where it is, but anyone

482
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 1>who knows where the three airfields are close to each other.

483
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.079
<v Speaker 1>And his whole job is either to shoot things away

484
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.559
<v Speaker 1>and if they don't shoo away, to shoot them. And

485
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:13.920
<v Speaker 1>that's and that is you know, that is at the

486
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:18.359
<v Speaker 1>behest of the government, and it's for public, so it's

487
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:20.759
<v Speaker 1>actually a matter of national resilience and defense.

488
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 3>They have something similar with with deer as well. They

489
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:27.039
<v Speaker 3>have like a if there's like a deer near a

490
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:30.400
<v Speaker 3>motorway that that looks like it could cause an accident,

491
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 3>they send.

492
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Looks a bit shifty a dispatch.

493
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's also I met a guy who worked for

494
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:47.279
<v Speaker 3>he works on behalf of Woman, I think it was,

495
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:53.240
<v Speaker 3>and his job was not only to shoot things that

496
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:58.960
<v Speaker 3>could potentially escape, but he had high calibers so he

497
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:02.319
<v Speaker 3>could take a rhino out should the eventuality happen.

498
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's interesting, I know.

499
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know somebody who has got a very exotic caliber,

500
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.279
<v Speaker 1>the sort of thing. It's one of those guns that

501
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.160
<v Speaker 1>looks like a shotgun, but it's actually a rifle. It's

502
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>just a double barreled rifle because you really hope you

503
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.079
<v Speaker 1>don't need the second barrel, and he has that because

504
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.119
<v Speaker 1>there are a bison on the estate. And if a

505
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.319
<v Speaker 1>bison gets out, the first call is to him, not

506
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:29.519
<v Speaker 1>to the farm manager or anything else like that. It's

507
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>X person down there to try and take out this

508
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.480
<v Speaker 1>bison that's got a head the size of a fridge.

509
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.599
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's it's never happened, but just imagine that situation.

510
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:45.440
<v Speaker 3>You know that you could drive round with rhinos at

511
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.119
<v Speaker 3>the Woburn Safari Park thing. You can drive round, but

512
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.240
<v Speaker 3>like if one escaped to.

513
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.079
<v Speaker 1>This our day out, we should do it.

514
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.160
<v Speaker 2>It's good shooting. I'm shooting tiger whereabouts.

515
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:58.880
<v Speaker 3>Well I'm not sure you're allowed to shoot them, but

516
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:05.359
<v Speaker 3>I've just been informed by Eyes in the Sky Artie Pie,

517
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:09.920
<v Speaker 3>and elephant has escaped from Chester Zoo. What has escaped?

518
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:13.720
<v Speaker 3>Not today, but in a period of time, once upon

519
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 3>a time an elephant scap.

520
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>It's under the bypass is where they shot it. They

521
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:20.920
<v Speaker 1>buried it there.

522
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I believe there is.

523
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I believe, come on, Richard, keep power through.

524
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I believe that there is currently on the run a

525
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>nine month old female cappy bara that called Samba.

526
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:38.200
<v Speaker 3>I saw the memes.

527
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, cappy Barra on the run, running.

528
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Numerous sightings near the river, itching and surrounding villages. She

529
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:52.440
<v Speaker 2>remains at large with searches involving thermal drones, specialist dog units,

530
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.319
<v Speaker 2>and food baited traps. Now, I think it's quite an

531
00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.039
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing. So they put all this resource into trying

532
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 2>to recap a samba, the kappy bara, but Samba is called. Yes,

533
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.839
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be quite interesting actually because after the

534
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.200
<v Speaker 2>King's speech apparently it's going to be released that in

535
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:15.799
<v Speaker 2>the king speech, and I don't know how he's going

536
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:16.960
<v Speaker 2>to keep a straight face doing this.

537
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 3>But Labor, if whoever the prime minister at the time

538
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.799
<v Speaker 3>is Samba is going to be our new prime minister.

539
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Kappy Barra would probably make a better fist, make a

540
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.359
<v Speaker 2>better fist of it, you know than Starmer.

541
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:34.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, were chilled out.

542
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.559
<v Speaker 2>They don't even have to go and change any initials,

543
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.839
<v Speaker 2>do they. You know, it's brilliant. But I'm just thinking

544
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:47.839
<v Speaker 2>they have used dogs to try and track Samba, which

545
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 2>after the King's speech will soon be illegal because that

546
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:57.119
<v Speaker 2>is using a dog or dogs to track the scent

547
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:02.279
<v Speaker 2>of a live animal. So therefore, under the new legislation

548
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:06.319
<v Speaker 2>they want to bring in for trial hunting, then Samba

549
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:11.200
<v Speaker 2>will stay free forever courtesy of labor. So there you go.

550
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>These things have consequences. Things have consequences.

551
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.519
<v Speaker 1>Yes, as we were discussing weeks ago when we were

552
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.920
<v Speaker 1>in that little WhatsApp group of journalists talking about this,

553
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.160
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that might fall afoul of this

554
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:30.240
<v Speaker 1>is search and rescue dogs and human remain detection dogs. Right,

555
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>So if you want, if you want to detect train

556
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:36.119
<v Speaker 1>a dog to search for human remains, well, you know

557
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:39.240
<v Speaker 1>they use these for like earthquakes and things like that,

558
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.680
<v Speaker 1>so it's you know, body recovery. Basically, it's pretty grim,

559
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.599
<v Speaker 1>but it is a thing that has to happen. You

560
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 1>can't readily get access to decomposing human flesh to train

561
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:54.039
<v Speaker 1>the animal on for scent. So the way they do

562
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 1>it is they use pig carcasses as an analogue of

563
00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:00.960
<v Speaker 1>human flesh, right, And it's the thing of training dogs

564
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.680
<v Speaker 1>on animal scent is you have to now have a

565
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:09.480
<v Speaker 1>very interesting explanation as to why you're doing that, because

566
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to be tracking a live animal. On

567
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:13.800
<v Speaker 1>the end, of it. You could be tracking a dead

568
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:18.440
<v Speaker 1>animal and these it's already it's definitely a thing for

569
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.960
<v Speaker 1>deer tracking dogs. That's going to be a big problem

570
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 1>there because if you're tracking a wounded deer or something

571
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.480
<v Speaker 1>that's run off from a vehicle incident or something like

572
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:31.559
<v Speaker 1>that on the eighth on they or something. Yeah, so

573
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.400
<v Speaker 1>it's going to have all sorts of unintended consequences that

574
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 1>we won't find out from for months, years, maybe from

575
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.639
<v Speaker 1>all of these stupid laws I see.

576
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:45.800
<v Speaker 2>So basically, we can no longer go and recover Samba,

577
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.440
<v Speaker 2>the Kappibara, we can no longer find dead or very

578
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.360
<v Speaker 2>nearly dead people, and we can't go and track deer

579
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 2>that have been injured and are lying in pain waiting

580
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.360
<v Speaker 2>for one of foxes to come and help it across

581
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:06.360
<v Speaker 2>back across the road. It's with this, I don't think

582
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 2>they've thought this through.

583
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:12.159
<v Speaker 3>Surely there'll be exemptions.

584
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Well that would, but you see, then there will be

585
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.840
<v Speaker 2>protesters who will say they're just going to use this

586
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.719
<v Speaker 2>as an exemption law. Because currently as it stands on

587
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Xmore and I think still the Quantox, they still they've

588
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.599
<v Speaker 2>admitted the fact that the stag hounds are still the

589
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.840
<v Speaker 2>only way to control the deer there. So therefore, rather

590
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:35.280
<v Speaker 2>than using a whole pack, they used two because that's

591
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:39.000
<v Speaker 2>within the law. But it's the only way you can

592
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>control the red deer herds there because basically it's open access.

593
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.800
<v Speaker 2>You know that you have right to roam across xmore

594
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.639
<v Speaker 2>and the quantox. So therefore they use these hands. So

595
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.920
<v Speaker 2>that's going to get removed. I mean, I don't quite

596
00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:00.159
<v Speaker 2>see how they're going to make these exemptions because a

597
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>the people who don't want to see trail hunting anymore

598
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 2>have always said the trail hunting is just a mask

599
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:12.000
<v Speaker 2>for illegal hunting activity. And Secondly, every single exemption that

600
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:16.079
<v Speaker 2>you have to make in a piece of legislation requires

601
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.599
<v Speaker 2>that piece of legislation or that little caveat in there,

602
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:25.400
<v Speaker 2>to be individually researched by a bunch of legal people

603
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.039
<v Speaker 2>to go and put it in to make sure it works.

604
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 2>So the hunting trail hunting ban, which sounds on paper

605
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:35.480
<v Speaker 2>just to be a sort of oh yes, King speech done,

606
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:41.320
<v Speaker 2>is actually going to cost millions and pond millions of pounds.

607
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.719
<v Speaker 2>And then the first time that anyone goes out and

608
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:46.239
<v Speaker 2>says I'm going to go and try and track this

609
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:49.199
<v Speaker 2>deer because I think I shot it, got shot it,

610
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't find it and get seen, and then they

611
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.400
<v Speaker 2>have to call them. It's going to cost it's basically

612
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to stop people chasing a bit of fox piss soaked

613
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>rag about the place is going to cost about one

614
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.800
<v Speaker 2>aircraft carrier. This is ridiculous, dear, as.

615
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 1>You can see from the very recent May local elections,

616
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.719
<v Speaker 1>by the fact the massive landslide of Reform, who you

617
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:20.360
<v Speaker 1>know have mixed opinions on this podcast about them, but

618
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 1>we are a broad political church here. You can see

619
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.039
<v Speaker 1>from the fact that Reform took that landslide, then Reformer

620
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:31.039
<v Speaker 1>clearly the party who were trying to ban trail hunting,

621
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>because that's what the public.

622
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:35.800
<v Speaker 2>That's it.

623
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:38.039
<v Speaker 1>It's the either way. So it's maybe not as much.

624
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.199
<v Speaker 1>Maybe all this stuff that is going to cost huge

625
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:44.760
<v Speaker 1>amounts of money is only of interest to a few people,

626
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:49.440
<v Speaker 1>and there are much more pressing issues that people keep

627
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 1>wanting to be fixed which are just being completely ignored.

628
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 1>So maybe we aren't a real country.

629
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.159
<v Speaker 2>I think you're correct from what you said from the

630
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 2>opening is we aren't really a real country. And what

631
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.440
<v Speaker 2>has happened is that people are just throwing dead so

632
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.239
<v Speaker 2>many dead cats around, which of course we can't trail

633
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:10.800
<v Speaker 2>hunt anymore. They're throwing so many dead cats around to

634
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.800
<v Speaker 2>just try and avoid the public's gaze of the fact

635
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.079
<v Speaker 2>that we aren't a real country, that it's just all

636
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:21.079
<v Speaker 2>falling to bits. I mean, so, perhaps Callum's suggestion that

637
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Samba the kappy Bara for prime minister, we could start

638
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Speaker 2>that campaign right now, you know, as an interim prime minister.

639
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Until twenty twenty nine, Britain has voted in a cappy barra.

640
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.559
<v Speaker 2>At least it would give the Italians genuinely something to

641
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>laugh at, because you want to believe what the English

642
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 2>and Dunea's time they hear forty in a cappy bar

643
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.639
<v Speaker 2>don't Is that how Italians speak.

644
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 3>As I don't think so.

645
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:47.360
<v Speaker 2>No, they do in.

646
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Suffolk with the lettuce versus list trust thing which lasts longer?

647
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Is this lettuce? Or yeah, so can we do? Which

648
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:03.760
<v Speaker 1>lasts longer? Dharma as prime minister or Samba the Kapabara

649
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 1>out on the run?

650
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Who's going to be captured? Thrown back in a cage? First?

651
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:21.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, back on, back, back where they belong. Gordon Brown or.

652
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, Gordon Brown was the sort of the the mid

653
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:30.280
<v Speaker 1>season sort of twist in the tail. Wasn't he that

654
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>no one expected him to come back? No, Harriet Harmony, Yes,

655
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Harriet Harmon has never supported anything terrible in her life.

656
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:39.000
<v Speaker 2>No.

657
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, research that yourselves, people, we've had we have had

658
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:48.360
<v Speaker 1>a piece from one of our forestry listeners, whether we

659
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 1>can talk about this so last year and I think

660
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.079
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the second one they've done, but this

661
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:04.000
<v Speaker 1>is the Raal Forestry. So they did their breaking Point survey,

662
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.920
<v Speaker 1>which is an anonymous survey goes out to people contractors

663
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.400
<v Speaker 1>working in the forestry industry, and it's basically, how do

664
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:13.519
<v Speaker 1>you feel about certain things? How do you feel about

665
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.599
<v Speaker 1>the way safety is managed in forestry? How do you

666
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.280
<v Speaker 1>feel about the way that the public perceives you? What

667
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.119
<v Speaker 1>are the things that are stressing you out? What do

668
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:25.079
<v Speaker 1>you feel good about? What do you feel bad about?

669
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:28.280
<v Speaker 1>And it's quite an interesting list of questions, and we're

670
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:29.599
<v Speaker 1>going to link out to it in the show notes.

671
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 1>You can go and read it yourself. But it's a

672
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:34.400
<v Speaker 1>very very interesting report. So the report came out a

673
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.840
<v Speaker 1>little while ago, but it's starting to get a bit

674
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:40.599
<v Speaker 1>more traction now and I've got some some sort of

675
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:44.039
<v Speaker 1>takeaways here because it's the sort of too long, didn't

676
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:48.280
<v Speaker 1>read summary of this is things aren't going well in

677
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:52.440
<v Speaker 1>the woods with the chainsaw people. And it's not just

678
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:56.880
<v Speaker 1>like everything like forestry is basically tree farming and everything's

679
00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:01.920
<v Speaker 1>a bit rough. It's forestry is really trouble, and particularly

680
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:08.400
<v Speaker 1>forestry contractors. It's looks like there's there's progress has been

681
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.119
<v Speaker 1>made in sort of structure in structuring forestry and making

682
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:14.400
<v Speaker 1>it so that there is a better structure for who's

683
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.039
<v Speaker 1>doing what and where and how how you work with

684
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:19.079
<v Speaker 1>a landowner and how you work with the agencies and

685
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.280
<v Speaker 1>things and stuff like safety and training. And there are

686
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.559
<v Speaker 1>few unqualified well basically no one unqualified out there now

687
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:27.280
<v Speaker 1>should be working. But people are up to date on

688
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.559
<v Speaker 1>the qualifications and working safely. It's not transforming though, over

689
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 1>into people feeling better about the industry. And the big

690
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:41.159
<v Speaker 1>one is financial insecurity, which I mean neither Richard and

691
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 1>I really work in forestry, but we get paid by

692
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.360
<v Speaker 1>the same landowners. And you know, we were talking about

693
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 1>MPs earlier. I think it would it should be that

694
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:56.280
<v Speaker 1>all MPs get paid any you know, whether whether it's

695
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:59.119
<v Speaker 1>their salary or whether it's their sort of their stipend

696
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.440
<v Speaker 1>that they get for various things. They should be paid

697
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 1>that at the same interval that the Crown Estate pays contractors,

698
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:11.400
<v Speaker 1>the same sort of delay between it, because anyone who's

699
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:15.159
<v Speaker 1>ever tried to be paid by large landowners, particularly the

700
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:20.639
<v Speaker 1>government ones, it can take weeks, months and querying about

701
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.039
<v Speaker 1>small things or it just gets lost gets lost in there.

702
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:27.679
<v Speaker 1>So you've got that. But meanwhile you've got very expensive

703
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:31.119
<v Speaker 1>machines that need to keep turning and keep burning fuel

704
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:35.920
<v Speaker 1>in order to pay off their monthly fee. Because often

705
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.679
<v Speaker 1>again a bit like farming, these huge machines are at

706
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:43.159
<v Speaker 1>least or you're paying them, you're paying them down. You've

707
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.320
<v Speaker 1>got to pay out thousands and thousands of pounds whether

708
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:48.440
<v Speaker 1>it leaves the yard or not. So you've got to

709
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:49.920
<v Speaker 1>keep working, but you've got to get the money back

710
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:51.440
<v Speaker 1>in for the work you were doing, and you can't

711
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 1>be chasing the money. So financial insecurity is a big one,

712
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.400
<v Speaker 1>because also you've got to pay the people working on

713
00:42:56.440 --> 00:43:00.239
<v Speaker 1>the ground, and the stress trickles downwards just that the

714
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:06.039
<v Speaker 1>money should. And mental health strain is another one as well,

715
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:08.719
<v Speaker 1>because that's a combination of you doing something dangerous in

716
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:12.719
<v Speaker 1>the middle of nowhere, you're not sure why you're doing

717
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:14.920
<v Speaker 1>it because the country doesn't seem to appreciate it, the

718
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:18.079
<v Speaker 1>public doesn't seem to appreciate it, and you're working for

719
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:25.880
<v Speaker 1>somebody who maybe is focused on other things and that, Yeah,

720
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that's one of the big things from this.

721
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:34.360
<v Speaker 3>We've got that forestry episode, which gives you a pretty

722
00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:39.679
<v Speaker 3>good picture of what it's like to be what the

723
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:46.199
<v Speaker 3>public perception is of forestry and what the realities of

724
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:49.559
<v Speaker 3>actually doing forestry is like. So that will give you

725
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.320
<v Speaker 3>a much better picture of if you go back and

726
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.559
<v Speaker 3>listen to that one, much better a picture of where

727
00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:01.559
<v Speaker 3>forestry people are at, so you can understand and it is. Yeah,

728
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.559
<v Speaker 3>there's certain jobs that that you do it because you

729
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:11.800
<v Speaker 3>love it. But it shouldn't be as hard as it is.

730
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 3>It shouldn't be, you know, there should be you should

731
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:21.519
<v Speaker 3>pay people like everybody else gets paid, just because it

732
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.599
<v Speaker 3>has to go through one place and go for another.

733
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 3>And the structures, yeah, odd shouldn't mean that they have

734
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.480
<v Speaker 3>to have cash flow issues and stuff like that. You know,

735
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:34.480
<v Speaker 3>we know what it's like to be self employed and

736
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:40.119
<v Speaker 3>stress about stress, stress about everything. As as all of

737
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:40.719
<v Speaker 3>us are.

738
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Sent four emails today saying could you pretty please pay

739
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.440
<v Speaker 1>that invoice for all that work idea that you're ignoring.

740
00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:51.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, my French robot always helped me do that.

741
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Today, I think one of the biggest challenges that as well,

742
00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:00.360
<v Speaker 2>that is slightly under the radar, is that and we

743
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.079
<v Speaker 2>can see this from our many forestry people who are

744
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:09.679
<v Speaker 2>patrons of country Slide and you see them on if

745
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:14.239
<v Speaker 2>they post something on x or they post something on

746
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.519
<v Speaker 2>God Forbid Blue Sky, which some of them, the masochists

747
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:21.239
<v Speaker 2>go on. Is that just this sheer amount of abuse

748
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.719
<v Speaker 2>that they get just for doing their job, because the

749
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:30.519
<v Speaker 2>default setting of people who most people who give it

750
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:34.440
<v Speaker 2>a toss about woods is that the people who give

751
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:36.480
<v Speaker 2>a toss about woods think that the moment you start

752
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:40.440
<v Speaker 2>a chainsaw, it's the sort of it's essentially abuse. So

753
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>therefore they're getting a load of shit from people who

754
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:48.119
<v Speaker 2>know nothing about what they're doing, the why, the positives,

755
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and so therefore not only they have indigunza this is

756
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.840
<v Speaker 2>what I do, but if they go and show their

757
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 2>work off, people are basically saying, well, that's awful. You're

758
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:02.039
<v Speaker 2>worse than pole pot for doing that. So it compounds

759
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:06.559
<v Speaker 2>all of the real world issues by the time that

760
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.320
<v Speaker 2>social media, if you do it right, is reaching out

761
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and saying I'm doing this, what do you think of this?

762
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:15.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you like it? And you know, if you were

763
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, a sculptor, you're going to put something out.

764
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:22.159
<v Speaker 2>Most people aren't so callous unless you're sort of Dianamal

765
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 2>troll to go and say that's crap. It looks nothing

766
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:28.880
<v Speaker 2>like a penguin. I don't know, I'm just the first

767
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.599
<v Speaker 2>bird that sprung to mind. But if you go and

768
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 2>cut a tree down, you get forty three supposed experts

769
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:41.519
<v Speaker 2>telling you're either doing it wrong or saying that your hitler. Yeah,

770
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:43.159
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty shit, really, isn't it?

771
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:49.199
<v Speaker 1>And what we see it's weirdly. It's if we were

772
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.119
<v Speaker 1>a better podcast would have planned this out to be

773
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:53.239
<v Speaker 1>circular in our thoughts, but no, we're not. It just

774
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:57.159
<v Speaker 1>happens randomly. It's this thing of people see a space

775
00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.199
<v Speaker 1>and they expect it to do all of the things

776
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.320
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, and it can't because one of

777
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:07.719
<v Speaker 1>those things counteracts the other. So plantations, plantation, woodland, deer

778
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:09.800
<v Speaker 1>go through it, foxes love it. You get some stuff

779
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.679
<v Speaker 1>in the canopy, but it's not the same as say

780
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:18.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the woodlands the edge of Flea Barn or

781
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:20.679
<v Speaker 1>somewhere on Wick and Vineyard or something. You know, one

782
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:23.440
<v Speaker 1>of the woodlands there has been managed for centuries. It's

783
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:26.280
<v Speaker 1>a tree bank. It's a place you've put some trees down.

784
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:29.639
<v Speaker 1>They've turned it into big woody bits, and then you'll

785
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.679
<v Speaker 1>go through and you can cut them down and make

786
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:36.039
<v Speaker 1>things from those big woody bits. After twenty thirty forty

787
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:39.159
<v Speaker 1>to fifty years. It was always intended to be cut down.

788
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:42.800
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't intended as a wildlife reserve. But you can

789
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.159
<v Speaker 1>have it somewhere else that could be that. But then

790
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:47.559
<v Speaker 1>you can't make that somewhere that you go for you

791
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:50.239
<v Speaker 1>turn into a paintball center or a mountain pipe place,

792
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:52.599
<v Speaker 1>or make it the busiest woodland just outside of the

793
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.400
<v Speaker 1>M twenty five, because it won't be great for wildlife.

794
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Then you've got to have somewhere for the people, somewhere

795
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 1>to do the industry bit and somewhere to have wildlife.

796
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.360
<v Speaker 1>And if it's a bit of an overlap, fine. This

797
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:06.320
<v Speaker 1>is the problem with how people see woodlands though they

798
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.440
<v Speaker 1>see them as these places where you should do everything.

799
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:18.360
<v Speaker 1>And I kind of blame the early twentieth century Aamion JRR.

800
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Tolkien sort of view of woodlands. Woodland, yea forest is

801
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:27.079
<v Speaker 1>this big mysterious wilds and have adventures and things. Yes,

802
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:28.960
<v Speaker 1>but we cut all of those down for World War

803
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.920
<v Speaker 1>One to make pit props and stuff and duckboards for

804
00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:35.679
<v Speaker 1>the trenches. So that's why the Forestry Commission was formed

805
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:40.280
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen twenties. The first of the Forestry Commission planted,

806
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:44.320
<v Speaker 1>was not harvested until the nineteen thirties. That was nineteen

807
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.719
<v Speaker 1>forties fifties, and then they planted it again, and then

808
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:50.920
<v Speaker 1>that was harvested in the seventies and eighties, and then

809
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of it was sold off and that's where

810
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.320
<v Speaker 1>we are now. But all all of those things were

811
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.440
<v Speaker 1>planted and then sat and harvested to make things from

812
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:04.280
<v Speaker 1>And we've just was it yesterday day before in nationalized

813
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.760
<v Speaker 1>British steel, because it is now finally realized that actually

814
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 1>making raw materials in your own place is actually quite

815
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.039
<v Speaker 1>a good idea rather than relying on maybe importing it

816
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:16.880
<v Speaker 1>from somebody you may or may not be at war

817
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:22.599
<v Speaker 1>within the future. Let's through that were trees.

818
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:29.000
<v Speaker 2>The fascinating thing with with Betford Forest, you know that

819
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:34.159
<v Speaker 2>was planted on the poorest land that they could find.

820
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>And so Thetford Forest. Now people would be thinking, oh,

821
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.159
<v Speaker 2>isn't this wonderful, But like I say, it was planted

822
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:44.360
<v Speaker 2>as a working wood forestry because it was there to

823
00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:48.639
<v Speaker 2>replace those the timber that we had used in the

824
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:53.280
<v Speaker 2>First World War. And they planted it in the Brecks

825
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:57.599
<v Speaker 2>because it was cheap. It was the cheapest land and

826
00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.920
<v Speaker 2>it actually belonged to a top and it belonged to

827
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.079
<v Speaker 2>an impoverished off and they said, we're going to take

828
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:04.320
<v Speaker 2>this off you and whether you like it or not,

829
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.760
<v Speaker 2>you are going to have Thetford Forest place there. And

830
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.079
<v Speaker 2>the gray partridge went, this is shit. And so the

831
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:18.719
<v Speaker 2>largest head of gray partridge in the UK was there

832
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.599
<v Speaker 2>in the Brex. It was perfect for them because you

833
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:25.440
<v Speaker 2>couldn't farm it as such. It was heath, it was

834
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:27.400
<v Speaker 2>wild heath, and I went, I was going to play

835
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.960
<v Speaker 2>on that. And I saw the same repeating pattern here.

836
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I looked out over the Dales today and I keep

837
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.360
<v Speaker 2>hearing all these people saying, we've got plant trees all

838
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:41.599
<v Speaker 2>over there because they have this misty eyed vision of

839
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:46.679
<v Speaker 2>the wild, wild wood. And I stood today alongside a

840
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:52.239
<v Speaker 2>bronze age stone wall, right and that was part of

841
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:56.159
<v Speaker 2>this absolute spider's web of stone walls is around here,

842
00:50:56.239 --> 00:51:00.159
<v Speaker 2>which indicates that this place in the Dales here has

843
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:03.320
<v Speaker 2>been farmed in much the same way as it is

844
00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:08.960
<v Speaker 2>still farmed now since neolithic times. Right, And somebody has

845
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:12.239
<v Speaker 2>gone because we, like we've read Winnie the Pooh, we

846
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:15.719
<v Speaker 2>want to have the wildwood there. And so you're going

847
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:22.199
<v Speaker 2>completely pissing all over four thousand years of human history

848
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:27.239
<v Speaker 2>and evolution because some dickhead thought that the fricking animals

849
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:32.880
<v Speaker 2>of farthing Wood, Winnie the Pooh and other assorted children's

850
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:37.239
<v Speaker 2>books written at the turn of the twentieth century were

851
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:41.400
<v Speaker 2>a how to guide to manage the landscape. It's to

852
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:48.199
<v Speaker 2>forget what human beings are. We are, yes, we are interventionists,

853
00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:55.760
<v Speaker 2>but the woodsman is a creator as much as a destroyer,

854
00:51:56.239 --> 00:52:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and certainly a curator of places. I feel sorry for

855
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:06.320
<v Speaker 2>those guys because I think that people are very quick

856
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.079
<v Speaker 2>to go and say, oh, you trans have you got

857
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.800
<v Speaker 2>mental health challenges because of all the nasty people being

858
00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:14.360
<v Speaker 2>nasty to you. Let's go and just start a political

859
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:16.400
<v Speaker 2>party called the Greens, and we're going to look after you.

860
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.400
<v Speaker 2>And you go, what you're a forester and you've got

861
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:21.800
<v Speaker 2>mental health problems because everyone's a wanker to you on

862
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Twitter and no one pays you one time, and your

863
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:27.440
<v Speaker 2>kit's really expensive. You can't get everything because we're the

864
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:28.199
<v Speaker 2>Green Party.

865
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:28.840
<v Speaker 1>It's shit.

866
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Tree, yeah, tree murdering bastard. You get all you deserve.

867
00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Really weird, isn't it. It is?

868
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:37.519
<v Speaker 1>And we're not even it's not even an eco left

869
00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:40.840
<v Speaker 1>versus sort of sensible working man on the land thing.

870
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.079
<v Speaker 1>You even the right or the old Right or the

871
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:47.079
<v Speaker 1>New Right or whatever they frig the cord now they

872
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:49.360
<v Speaker 1>don't seem to really understand that as well. Okay, so

873
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:54.039
<v Speaker 1>this is my argument for it. This is a national defense,

874
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.840
<v Speaker 1>a national resilience issue, just like food, just like energy,

875
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.079
<v Speaker 1>just like security of borders, just like all of these

876
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:05.159
<v Speaker 1>other things. Timber is really useful. You can take it

877
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:08.000
<v Speaker 1>as a raw material, store it for a long time,

878
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:11.559
<v Speaker 1>stack it really high, it just sits there, and then

879
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.119
<v Speaker 1>when you need to make it into stuff, you can

880
00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:16.679
<v Speaker 1>turn it into useful products really really quickly, and make

881
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.599
<v Speaker 1>stuff from it really quickly, temporary, move it around the country.

882
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:24.280
<v Speaker 1>It's great. We don't have enough saw mills, we don't

883
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:26.760
<v Speaker 1>have enough small saw mills certainly that used to handle

884
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:28.400
<v Speaker 1>all this stuff, so we need more of those. It's

885
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.440
<v Speaker 1>a bit like the Avatar issue for livestock farming and

886
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the saw mills that we do have, the really big processors.

887
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:39.199
<v Speaker 1>They are the equivalent of the supermarkets in farming. They

888
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:41.760
<v Speaker 1>have got used to this global market of stuff and

889
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:45.199
<v Speaker 1>the most important thing for them is can they supply

890
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:49.320
<v Speaker 1>the end product to the consumer as quickly as possible,

891
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:51.599
<v Speaker 1>in which case they don't care where it comes from.

892
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:53.280
<v Speaker 1>They don't care whether it comes from Canada, it comes

893
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:55.920
<v Speaker 1>from Scandinavia, comes from China, It doesn't really matter. As

894
00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:58.400
<v Speaker 1>long as they can get the stuff in and use it,

895
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:01.559
<v Speaker 1>then they don't care whether it's actually coming from a

896
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:04.599
<v Speaker 1>local place, which is why you need a higher level

897
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:08.239
<v Speaker 1>body to say, Okay, strategically, what are we doing with timber?

898
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Do we have enough people working in this industry all

899
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:17.000
<v Speaker 1>of this stuff? So that's yeah, that's my polemic, that's

900
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:20.199
<v Speaker 1>my argument. But go and read this breaking point survey.

901
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:22.639
<v Speaker 1>It's it's very interesting. It's not the most cheerful.

902
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Ready, no, and show a bit of love, or better still,

903
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 2>just show a bit of understanding. You know, I think

904
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:36.760
<v Speaker 2>that some of the guys tried to do this sort

905
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:42.440
<v Speaker 2>of positive forestry then on social media, which was a

906
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:47.480
<v Speaker 2>noble effort, but I doubt that many people will actually

907
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.280
<v Speaker 2>look at it positively because they if they inhabit the

908
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:53.159
<v Speaker 2>worlds of social media, most of them have already made

909
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:56.280
<v Speaker 2>up their minds that they are negative about forestry, and

910
00:54:56.440 --> 00:55:00.360
<v Speaker 2>you won't change my mind. It's an entrenched view point,

911
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.320
<v Speaker 2>like an entrenched viewpoint about many. I wrote a piece

912
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:09.199
<v Speaker 2>for the Critic that came out last week started this month,

913
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:13.559
<v Speaker 2>and I was asking the question, you know, our reform

914
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:18.239
<v Speaker 2>actually the New Green Party because they and it was

915
00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:21.119
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a puff piece for the Reform UK Party.

916
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:23.559
<v Speaker 2>What it was was asking the question is that if

917
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:26.719
<v Speaker 2>you support farming and you buy the point that if

918
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you make farming in the black, then the countryside can

919
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:34.239
<v Speaker 2>be green because it's got trickled down. And I thought

920
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:36.599
<v Speaker 2>that's quite good. And the editor, who is a very

921
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:40.840
<v Speaker 2>intelligent man, far more intelligent than us three, he said,

922
00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:43.679
<v Speaker 2>that's a really balanced thing. He said, it's actually, you know,

923
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.519
<v Speaker 2>it's food for thought. I put it up there and

924
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:49.760
<v Speaker 2>there is these rabid idiots because it had the word reforming.

925
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:54.599
<v Speaker 2>I think that's literally what they just did and went, yeah.

926
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Like white blood cells responding to an infection.

927
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Just just read things, expand your mind and if you disagree, fine,

928
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:12.000
<v Speaker 2>if you disagree, come back with a yeah, a sensible counterpoint.

929
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.320
<v Speaker 1>So I think that's a It's a good way to

930
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.599
<v Speaker 1>end this main show. Sadly, our co host Richard.

931
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.559
<v Speaker 2>Needs to leave. Yes, I'm very sorry for the after show.

932
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.119
<v Speaker 1>I think it's it's this ball that you're heading to.

933
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:28.599
<v Speaker 1>Is it looks quite fancy because the costume choice you

934
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:32.519
<v Speaker 1>have here on camera is is bold. I think the

935
00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:35.800
<v Speaker 1>pink and the line at the same time is I

936
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:37.039
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you can put it off. It's the

937
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Cod Peace challenge really.

938
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:42.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, look I saw what Zach Polanski was wearing

939
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:44.880
<v Speaker 2>and then said I want a bit of that. So

940
00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you know it's it's.

941
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Cod Peace, Cod Peace or Cod Price Cod Time high today.

942
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Richard is off to his northern version of

943
00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:00.880
<v Speaker 1>the end scenes of Eyes Wide Shirts. Yes, except involves

944
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:03.760
<v Speaker 1>more dry stone walling and maybe a curview, and Callum

945
00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:05.039
<v Speaker 1>and I go off to the after show.

946
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Goodbye, everybody, Goodbye.