Speaker 1: Last episode, we began discussing the case of Cindy James
Speaker 1: and the Invisible Man. Today, we're going to be continuing
Speaker 1: on with part two. To be sure to listen to
Speaker 1: part one first, because trust me, it's worth it and
Speaker 1: it's a case where you're gonna need to listen to
Speaker 1: all of it.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram,
Speaker 2: a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following podcast material intended more mature audience. Listener discretion
Speaker 1: is advised. It's part two day question. Did you guys
Speaker 1: wait to binge it do all? Or did you actually
Speaker 1: listen to the day like Tuesday when it came out
Speaker 1: and you're waiting for today to come out now too?
Speaker 1: Like are you a separate it kind of person?
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: Wait, you didn't well, I mean you don't have a choice.
Speaker 2: But I actually sat down here completely forgetting that we
Speaker 2: were on a part two, which is kind of funny
Speaker 2: because usually I do not.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a good feeling then, because it's like,
Speaker 1: oh right, I get to like catch up on.
Speaker 2: This, yeah, and it kind of like came back to
Speaker 2: me the you know, part one, and I'm like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I got a little excited there.
Speaker 1: Which that's good and I think we should dive right
Speaker 1: into this. So let's cud all the bullshit. I'm going
Speaker 1: to give you the little rundown recap. So last episode,
Speaker 1: we began talking about Cindy James and the stocking that
Speaker 1: she was enduring. Now there was some suspicion that it
Speaker 1: could have been her ex husband, ROI make peace, but
Speaker 1: Cindy kind of disagreed with that. She didn't think it
Speaker 1: was him. She kind of was like, no, we're on
Speaker 1: good terms and everything, despite her earlier claims that they
Speaker 1: weren't because he was abusive in their relationship. But now
Speaker 1: the stalking. It led to some traumatic phone calls, disturbing
Speaker 1: letters being delivered to her place, potentially even someone entering
Speaker 1: her home as she claimed, and most recently, even an
Speaker 1: encounter where her friend found her right after an attack
Speaker 1: had occurred in her home where she was drug into
Speaker 1: her garage and assaulted by two individuals and she was
Speaker 1: left found with nylons tied around her neck and absolutely terrified.
Speaker 1: Now police were beginning to have their doubts about these
Speaker 1: encounters and the information that Cindy was actually giving them,
Speaker 1: so they asked her to have a poly or to
Speaker 1: take a polygraph test, and this showed that the police
Speaker 1: were right. Cindy was indeed not sharing everything that she knew.
Speaker 1: There was some shady things going on, to say the least.
Speaker 1: And that's where we left off.
Speaker 2: Okay, so, yeah, we knew that she was hiding something
Speaker 2: from the police, but we don't really necessarily know what
Speaker 2: extent or what awake exactly.
Speaker 1: The police discovered with this polygraph test that she's hiding something,
Speaker 1: but we haven't discussed what just yet. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about that now. After these polygraph tests with the RCMP,
Speaker 1: Cindy was confronted with the results, it was clear she
Speaker 1: knew more than she was letting on. When officers pressed
Speaker 1: her for answers, she finally broke down through tears. She
Speaker 1: admitted that she did recognize both of her attackers during
Speaker 1: the recent assault when she was found in her garage,
Speaker 1: but when asked to name the men, she refused. Okay, now,
Speaker 1: this was beyond frustrating for police. For months, For months,
Speaker 1: they had poured time and resources into investigating her case.
Speaker 1: You know, they're chasing leads, trying to protect her, and
Speaker 1: now after all that Cindy was sitting here on crucial
Speaker 1: information and refusing to share it. So she was truly
Speaker 1: terrified that like, you know, identifying her attacker could like
Speaker 1: take away that danger right totally. So why wouldn't she
Speaker 1: do that? Why did she continue to report all these
Speaker 1: incidents and like when she has the information that could
Speaker 1: stop it. So it's hard to say why. But if
Speaker 1: she believe naming them would get someone hurt, maybe you know,
Speaker 1: maybe her family.
Speaker 2: Or something, okay, or they were threatening her in some way,
Speaker 2: oh right, yeah, it could be.
Speaker 1: It could be a reason why. But it felt like
Speaker 1: a game to police that she's playing now. At the
Speaker 1: same time, Cindy couldn't bear to stay in her house
Speaker 1: any longer. The memory of what had happened there was
Speaker 1: just too much for her. So she made a drastic decision.
Speaker 1: She moved back in with her ex husband Roy make Peace.
Speaker 1: She believed that despite everything, Roy could protect her if
Speaker 1: anything had happened now. Roy welcomed her back and was
Speaker 1: just as frustrated as Cindy about the lack of protection
Speaker 1: from police. He had stayed updated on what had been
Speaker 1: going on, and in his mind, it was clear that
Speaker 1: the police weren't doing enough to help Cindy, but officers
Speaker 1: still have their suspicions about him. Many of them believed
Speaker 1: that Roy was behind the harassment all along, trying to
Speaker 1: manipulate Cindy into coming back into a relationship with him.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just literally had that thought like a second ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: This theory, however, started to crack when less than a
Speaker 1: week after moving in with Roy, Cindy received another threatening letter,
Speaker 1: and the note read quote, run rabbit, run, I'll show
Speaker 1: you how good I am soon soon bang bang, You're
Speaker 1: dead creepy.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just need a slight clarification. Is she still
Speaker 2: with She's not with that other man, the like investigator.
Speaker 1: The private investigator. I believe she still is. Yes, Oh okay,
Speaker 1: they're not living together. I mean, of course she's now
Speaker 1: living with Roy. Yeah, but I believe that they're still together.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot of documentation exactly on like
Speaker 1: when their relationship ended or how long it lasted, but
Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, they dated for a while. Still.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, that can't be going well if she's like
Speaker 2: just moved back in with her ex y, I can't
Speaker 2: see that going overly.
Speaker 1: Well, she might not be with him anymore. It's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to tell, okay. Now, disturbing calls were also
Speaker 1: starting to come again, all from the same voice. This time,
Speaker 1: the caller described in graphic detail exactly how he planned
Speaker 1: to kill her. Now, after two months, Cindy realized that
Speaker 1: moving back in with Roy hadn't made her any safer
Speaker 1: at all. If anything, it had proven that whoever was
Speaker 1: stalking her wasn't just some bitter x it was someone
Speaker 1: who would follow her no matter where she went. So
Speaker 1: by this point she had moved four times in less
Speaker 1: than a year, and still the stalker found her every
Speaker 1: single time she moved. Cindy followed the police's advice. She
Speaker 1: kept her private information locked down, only sharing her whereabouts
Speaker 1: with close family, and yet it didn't seem to matter.
Speaker 1: No matter where she went, she wasn't safe, and this
Speaker 1: stalker would find her. As summer approached, Cindy was a
Speaker 1: shell of her former self. The stress, the fear, the
Speaker 1: constant moving was wearing down on her. In an effort
Speaker 1: to help, Roy paid for Cindy to go take a
Speaker 1: trip out of the country and visit her brother in Karta.
Speaker 1: He hoped that a break from all this might help
Speaker 1: her fee feel normal once again, and even if it
Speaker 1: was just for a little while. Right, and for the
Speaker 1: first time in months, Cindy finally felt safe. There were
Speaker 1: no calls, no letters, no threats. She could only just
Speaker 1: begin to start breathing again. That relief, that weight off
Speaker 1: her shoulders.
Speaker 2: That would be an amazing feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she wasn't constantly looking back behind her, you know,
Speaker 1: worrying about her safety. But unfortunately that piece didn't last.
Speaker 1: When she returned home, she found a note waiting for
Speaker 1: her that read quote, welcome back, death, blood, hate, et cetera.
Speaker 1: It was sloppier than the previous threats, almost as if
Speaker 1: even her stalker was kind of getting tired of the situation.
Speaker 1: You know. But Cindy wasn't the same woman who had left.
Speaker 1: She was done waiting like a sitting duck. She decided
Speaker 1: she was going to take action on this situation. She
Speaker 1: painted her car a new color so it wouldn't be recognizable.
Speaker 1: She changed her hairstyle, She started carrying a portable panic button,
Speaker 1: oil and pepper spray everywhere she went. Anything that she
Speaker 1: could do to protect herself or change the situation.
Speaker 2: Okay, go, Cindy, YEP.
Speaker 1: And most importantly, she now hired the private investigator. Sorry,
Speaker 1: before it wasn't a private investigator, it was an RCMP member.
Speaker 1: The private investigator is now being hired Ozzie Kubat. Now
Speaker 1: Ozzie was looking into the case. Cindy no longer trusted
Speaker 1: the police to help her, so she took matters again
Speaker 1: into her own hands. Right but despite her best efforts,
Speaker 1: the stalker kept finding ways to reach her. These letters
Speaker 1: started arriving at her workplace as well. Cindy tried to
Speaker 1: keep calm and assure her coworkers it was just a prank,
Speaker 1: she said. She wasn't worried because as long as she's
Speaker 1: around other people, you know, she's safe. She's fine. But
Speaker 1: as the threats crept closer to her workplace, she started
Speaker 1: realizing just how much of her life was at risk.
Speaker 1: Then these threats, of course, became more physical. That fall,
Speaker 1: Cindy came home to find a dead cat on her
Speaker 1: front porch. A note was placed behind it that said
Speaker 1: You're next. It was the first of three dead cats
Speaker 1: that would be left on her property.
Speaker 2: What the shit? What are the cats have to do
Speaker 2: with this?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Who knows. Two weeks after finding that dead cat.
Speaker 1: Her garden, which was like her only source of stress
Speaker 1: relief at the time, was completely destroyed. When she went
Speaker 1: to the police, they still had nothing. Once again, the
Speaker 1: RCMP circled back to the same question, Could Roy be
Speaker 1: the one behind all of this? Could he be the
Speaker 1: one who's actually, you know, stalking his ex and causing
Speaker 1: these issues. Cindy was as firm as always, No, she said,
Speaker 1: Roy wasn't capable of this. It has to be someone else.
Speaker 1: But her private journals, within them, in Cindy's own words,
Speaker 1: they seemed to tell a different story. In one journal.
Speaker 1: In one entry, she wrote about how during their marriage,
Speaker 1: Roy had deliberately destroyed the garden that she she kept
Speaker 1: at their home, a garden that of course meant the
Speaker 1: world to her. And now with her current stalker ripping
Speaker 1: apart her garden in the new place, it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard not to see the parallel for sure, right it
Speaker 1: almost felt like a signature that Roy was leaving behind,
Speaker 1: taunting her if you may.
Speaker 2: And don't mess with people's gardens, that is that is brutal,
Speaker 2: no kidding, I would be freaking pissed.
Speaker 1: In November of nineteen eighty three, Patrick McBride who was
Speaker 1: the RCMP officer that she was seeing, stopped by Cindy's
Speaker 1: house and discovered yet another threatening note left in her porch.
Speaker 1: That same week, two more dead cats were found in
Speaker 1: the yard, each one accompanying by another sinister message. The
Speaker 1: harassment was relentless, and it escalated almost weekly, though never
Speaker 1: quite reaching the same level as a physical attack Cindy
Speaker 1: had endured earlier that year. When police asked Cindy why
Speaker 1: she thought the stalker hadn't made another direct attempt at
Speaker 1: her life and was now resorting to these note threats
Speaker 1: in the phone calls and these sort of things again
Speaker 1: instead of, you know, actually at her, right, she told
Speaker 1: them she believed that this person didn't actually want to
Speaker 1: kill her outright. Instead, she believed that they wanted to
Speaker 1: scare her to death.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean, how would she even sleep, you know,
Speaker 2: at night?
Speaker 1: I don't think I could, Yeah, with all that sort
Speaker 1: of harassment, and like how it's escalating and how serious
Speaker 1: it's getting, I don't know if I could.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Now, that explanation left investigators scratching their heads. You know,
Speaker 1: why would someone want to scare her to death or whatever? Right?
Speaker 1: And even some of Cindy's closest friends were starting to
Speaker 1: question her story. At first, her loved ones had been
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly supportive, but after a year of these bizarre incidents,
Speaker 1: many of which seemed almost too perfectly timed, doubted or
Speaker 1: doubts started to creep in. Even Ousie Kabban, the private
Speaker 1: investigator Cindy had hired, couldn't shake the feeling that something
Speaker 1: wasn't just adding up in this situation. Every threatening call
Speaker 1: came when Cindy was alone, whether police tapped her foot
Speaker 1: or not, like the calls were too short to trace
Speaker 1: when that happened right. Every time the porch lights were
Speaker 1: smashed or her windows were broken, there was no evidence
Speaker 1: left behind, no fingerprints or footprints, and no one like
Speaker 1: no one suspicious was spotted in the area either. Most
Speaker 1: in settling of all, every time Cindy moved, her stalker
Speaker 1: somehow got her new address almost immediately, even even though
Speaker 1: she kept that information strictly within her immediate family. Cindy
Speaker 1: knew people were losing faith in her story. She could
Speaker 1: feel it the way condolences were being replaced with, you know,
Speaker 1: side eye and polite but skeptical smiles like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: oh that sucks.
Speaker 2: Stuff, right, that's not a good feeling.
Speaker 1: The worst part was knowing some people believed she was
Speaker 1: making the whole thing up. Now Kaban the private investigator,
Speaker 1: He tried to stay supportive, but even he told Cindy
Speaker 1: that if she wanted this help, he needed actual proof,
Speaker 1: something hard, something undeniable, something tangible, you know, and that
Speaker 1: he gave her a two way radio to carry, you know,
Speaker 1: at all times while she's home alone. When something happens,
Speaker 1: you know, that way she could immediately call for help.
Speaker 1: So at first the radio seemed like it was just
Speaker 1: mostly a formality, but command didn't expect much to come
Speaker 1: of it, sort of thing. But on January thirtieth, nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, everything changed. Late that night, he was jolted
Speaker 1: awake by a strange noise. It was crackling through the radio.
Speaker 1: Without hesitation, he jumped into his car and drove straight
Speaker 1: to Cindy's house. When he got inside, he found her
Speaker 1: collapsed face down in the hallway with a pairing knife
Speaker 1: stabbed straight through her hand, pinning a note.
Speaker 2: Oh whoa okay.
Speaker 1: The note was made just like before from cutout magazine
Speaker 1: letters and read quote, now you must die.
Speaker 2: Oh that's really, really, really alarming.
Speaker 1: As he knelt down beside her, Cindy slowly started to
Speaker 1: come too. Groggy and terrified. She told him the same
Speaker 1: chilling story she would later repeat to police. She said
Speaker 1: she heard someone outside. When she went to check, a
Speaker 1: man forced his way in and attacked her. He struck
Speaker 1: her in the head with something heavy, leaving her dazed
Speaker 1: and barely conscious. While she drifted in and out, she
Speaker 1: remembered feeling a needle jabbing into her arm. WHOA, Now
Speaker 1: she was sure that she was injected with something that
Speaker 1: knocked her out completely. Uh huh, But just like last time,
Speaker 1: the evidence didn't back up her story.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because it's kind of odd that they wouldn't
Speaker 2: have just done it then and there.
Speaker 1: Agreed right now. To me, it almost seems like that
Speaker 1: note isn't to her, it's like to someone else, right,
Speaker 1: Because why would someone come into the house and attack
Speaker 1: an individual and then leave a note for you that says,
Speaker 1: now you must die. Why wouldn't they just tell you
Speaker 1: because they're right there. Why wouldn't they just kill you
Speaker 1: because they're right there? That note is almost like forced
Speaker 1: someone else to show, like, hey, someone's trying to kill me.
Speaker 1: You know, almost like a freight fake breadcrumb trail. Now,
Speaker 1: toxicology tests came back, and they came back completely clear.
Speaker 1: There were no drugs in cindy system. In fact, there
Speaker 1: weren't even any puncture marks in her arms where she
Speaker 1: claimed needle went in. And once again, there were no
Speaker 1: signs of forced entry anywhere in the house. The whole
Speaker 1: thing just, I mean, as I was kind of talking,
Speaker 1: felt staged.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, that seems really weird. Did she have
Speaker 2: a big bump on her head?
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm not too sure. Actually, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: she had a big bump or anything, but just things
Speaker 1: didn't quite add up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1: Now, this time, though, Cindy gave the police something new.
Speaker 1: She provided a sketch of her attacker based on, you know,
Speaker 1: the brief moments that she had seen his face. Now,
Speaker 1: whether the sketch was accurate or not is anyone's guests,
Speaker 1: especially since Cindy insisted she already knew the exact exact
Speaker 1: person who was stalking her because she recognized them from
Speaker 1: the other attack, right, yeah, or she still refused to
Speaker 1: name them, But at this point Cindy could help. The
Speaker 1: walls closing in The police obviously weren't believing her, and
Speaker 1: her friends were losing trust as well, and even the
Speaker 1: private investigator was he was not having his full investment.
Speaker 1: His doubts were definitely there. So she finally gave the
Speaker 1: answer that you know, they seemed to be waiting for.
Speaker 1: She told them she believed her ex husband, Roy Makepeace,
Speaker 1: was the one behind everything.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so she's changed her tune.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after all that stalking, the attacks, the harassment, and
Speaker 1: her defending her ex husband. She saying Roy is the
Speaker 1: one who's behind it, and she believes that it's his
Speaker 1: way of punishing her for leaving him and trying to
Speaker 1: force her back into his life.
Speaker 2: That makes no sense though, because she even went about
Speaker 2: moving in with him at some point.
Speaker 1: So I just like, I don't like that exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the big problem with all this. None of the story,
Speaker 1: none of the incidents, none of the stalking doesn't add up,
Speaker 1: and none of it makes sense.
Speaker 2: But okay, Also, I guess maybe she was thinking, if
Speaker 2: I move in there, I'll be like safer, right, because
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of makes sense going back, right,
Speaker 2: and that happens a lot. But I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is confusing as shit.
Speaker 1: But you would think that at least for a little while,
Speaker 1: those things would stop.
Speaker 2: When she was living there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Now she made this confession in nineteen eighty four on
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day. Actually just a little like tidbit of information.
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting, little uninteresting date, an interesting date.
Speaker 1: But I digress. Now, the police brought Roy make Peace
Speaker 1: back in for questioning once again. You know, they pressed
Speaker 1: him both in these accusations, and just like every other time,
Speaker 1: Roy denied everything that they were bringing up to him.
Speaker 1: He's just like, Nope, not me. It's messed up. What's
Speaker 1: going on. I'm not involved. You got the wrong guy
Speaker 1: sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Frustrated and desperate to protect his daughter, Otto decided to
Speaker 1: confront Roy himself. Now. Auto believed that if he could
Speaker 1: sit down with Roy face to face, maybe he could
Speaker 1: finally get him to slip up and emit something right.
Speaker 1: To make sure he had proof, Auto even wore a
Speaker 1: hidden wire to record the conversation. Now, during the meeting,
Speaker 1: Otto didn't hold back. He told Roy in no no
Speaker 1: uncertain terms sorry, that he wasn't going to be allowed
Speaker 1: anywhere near Cindy anymore, and he outright accused him of
Speaker 1: being behind the whole campaign of threats and harassment. Roy
Speaker 1: didn't confess. Instead, he offered up a wild theory of
Speaker 1: his own. He claimed Cindy maybe being targeted by the mafia. Now,
Speaker 1: according to Roy, Cindy had somehow maybe crossed the wrong
Speaker 1: people while working at the hospital, maybe getting involved with
Speaker 1: a child from a mob connected family. Whatever. He was
Speaker 1: so convinced he even wrote Auto a six page letters
Speaker 1: laying out his whole theory and begging Otto to push
Speaker 1: the police to investigate it. In the months that followed,
Speaker 1: the phone calls kept coming. Cindy was receiving new obscene
Speaker 1: calls and threatening notes almost every single day, but just
Speaker 1: like before, the calls were too short for police to trace.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: At one point, RCMP officers decided to surveil Cindy's house.
Speaker 1: They wanted harp proof that she wasn't behind the harassment herself. Right, So,
Speaker 1: only Cindy and the officers involved knew about the operation.
Speaker 1: So in theory, if someone outside of law enforcement was responsible,
Speaker 1: that have no way of knowing that they were being watched, right,
Speaker 1: and the police could catch this individual red handed. It
Speaker 1: says many as fourteen officers took part in the surveillance. Right,
Speaker 1: So we have people going in shifts different times, up
Speaker 1: to fourteen different officers. But during all of those shifts,
Speaker 1: not a single suspicious person came near the house, No
Speaker 1: strange cars drove by, no figures sneaking around. Nothing. Yet
Speaker 1: every time the officers packed up and left, guess what happened? Seriously,
Speaker 1: Cindy immediately called the police, claiming she'd received another call
Speaker 1: or found a new note every single time.
Speaker 2: Dang. Okay, But also if there is someone, I mean,
Speaker 2: they would know, right if like when the police did
Speaker 2: pack up, But then the police you know, would also
Speaker 2: see them in their car watching or whatever. Exactly, Okay,
Speaker 2: And it's not like it can be a neighbor anymore
Speaker 2: at this point too, if she's has relocated so many times.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm very I'm very confused now.
Speaker 1: Cindy and her family insisted though this was part of
Speaker 1: the stalker's plan to make her look like she was
Speaker 1: like crying wolf and going crazy, right, And I mean,
Speaker 1: there was no way anyone could have known exactly when
Speaker 1: surveillance had ended or started unless they were part of
Speaker 1: the operation itself or someone inside Cindy's own circle knew.
Speaker 2: Okay, within the operation itself, that kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you have at least Cindy or a close
Speaker 1: family member or an officer part of the surveillance team.
Speaker 1: At this point, the police were convinced though Cindy was
Speaker 1: the one orchestrating the whole thing herself. When they made
Speaker 1: that clear to her, Cindy withdrew even more convinced that
Speaker 1: no one believed her and that she was truly alone. Then,
Speaker 1: on June eighteenth, nineteen eighty four, Cindy called Ozzie Caban,
Speaker 1: the private investigator, and she was in a full blown panic.
Speaker 1: When he arrived at her house. She was trembling and
Speaker 1: hiding in her garden, insisting someone had broken into her home. Now,
Speaker 1: Caban led the way inside and Cindy was trailing behind him.
Speaker 1: They searched the house room by room, eventually making their
Speaker 1: way into the basement, where they found Cindy's dog, Heidi,
Speaker 1: huddling in the corner. Now, the poor dog was visibly terrified,
Speaker 1: and she had a noose tied around her neck. What
Speaker 1: Heidi had clearly been abused, and she was so shaken
Speaker 1: and cowered in the Courrner. She would not even want
Speaker 1: to approach Kaban or her owner, Cindy.
Speaker 2: Oh the poor baby.
Speaker 1: Now attached to this noose was a note reading happy Birthday,
Speaker 1: along with several pornographic photos.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Over the next few weeks, calls, letters and threats continued,
Speaker 1: and another dead cat was left on Cindy's left for
Speaker 1: Cindy to find. But then July first, something even stranger happened.
Speaker 1: Two men showed up at her house posing as police officers.
Speaker 1: Cindy immediately knew something was off. After everything she'd been through,
Speaker 1: she was on pretty much a first name basis with
Speaker 1: almost every single local officer, right h these two were
Speaker 1: total strangers to her. Before she even considered letting them inside,
Speaker 1: Cindy told them that she was going to radio Ozzie Caban,
Speaker 1: the private investigator, to confirm their identify identities. Without saying
Speaker 1: saying a word, both of the men bolted from her porch.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: Now, like so many incidents before, there was no evidence
Speaker 1: to back up this story. This was just Cindy's words.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was no security footage, no witnesses, nothing. Two days later,
Speaker 1: on July third, Cindy checked in with Caban again over
Speaker 1: the two a radio, letting him know that she was
Speaker 1: going to take Heidi for a walk. Now he worried
Speaker 1: about her safety, and you know, he warned her not
Speaker 1: to go outside, but Cindy insisted she needed some fresh air.
Speaker 1: Three and a half hours later, a stranger a mile
Speaker 1: away from her house answered a knock at their door
Speaker 1: to find Cindy standing there, battered and disoriented, with black
Speaker 1: nylon stocking tied tightly around her neck. The moment the
Speaker 1: door opened, Cindy collapsed on his front porch. Cindy was
Speaker 1: able to speak, and she was giving a chilling account.
Speaker 1: While walking Hidie, she was approached by a green van
Speaker 1: that pulled up beside her. Inside the van were a
Speaker 1: bearded man and a blonde woman, both of whom she
Speaker 1: claimed she had never seen before. The man was asking
Speaker 1: for directions, and after that, Cindy said, everything went blank.
Speaker 1: She was immediately rushed to the hospital, and after being found,
Speaker 1: the doctors noted two needle marks on her arm. However,
Speaker 1: when toxicology results came back, the only substance found in
Speaker 1: her system was a prescription antidepressant that she recently started taking.
Speaker 1: There were no traces of sedatives, tranquilizers, or any other
Speaker 1: drug that might explain the blackout.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, gosh, this is just getting more and more confusing.
Speaker 2: It's a kind of like, I don't know. You want
Speaker 2: to believe her, like you really do, oh one percent,
Speaker 2: but then I don't know. Yeah, it's just so weird
Speaker 2: that this it's been going on this long, I guess,
Speaker 2: and that nothing has been able to be pinpointed. I
Speaker 2: don't know. It is very confusing.
Speaker 1: I'm very conflicted in this because, like you say, you
Speaker 1: want to believe her, Yeah, at the same time, how
Speaker 1: do you believe her? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, but I mean she would also be paying
Speaker 2: the private investigator, right, so she's like putting money into
Speaker 2: this herself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: Oh ah.
Speaker 1: Now, while Cindy was being treated, something strange happened. The
Speaker 1: hospital receptionist informed police that she received a suspicious phone
Speaker 1: call earlier that day. The caller had asked oddly specific
Speaker 1: questions about hospital's security procedures, which left her feeling a
Speaker 1: little uneasy, as if the person was on the like
Speaker 1: on the other end, was planning something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, police decided to play a recording that they had
Speaker 1: of Roy make peace his voice to see if he
Speaker 1: was maybe the one who had called. While the receptionist
Speaker 1: couldn't be one hundred percent sure, she said that there
Speaker 1: was a strong possibility that Roy was the man who
Speaker 1: had called. Hoping to dig deeper into Cindy's trauma, Ozzie Cobban,
Speaker 1: the private investigator, suggested that she try hypno therapy now.
Speaker 1: His theory was that if Cindy's conscious mind couldn't recall
Speaker 1: useful details about her stalker, maybe her subconscious could, which
Speaker 1: is often what hypnotherapy has used for. The first therapist
Speaker 1: Cindy saw, however, determined she was too emotionally fragile for
Speaker 1: hypnotherapy to be reliable. The session took a bizarre turn
Speaker 1: when Cindy suddenly claimed that she had witnessed a double
Speaker 1: murder at some point in her life. The therapist, concerned
Speaker 1: about her mental state, decided, yet, we're not doing hypnotherapy.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: So Caban wasn't ready to give up. She encouraged Cindy
Speaker 1: to try another hypnotherapist in a new year, still hoping
Speaker 1: they could unlock useful memories about her stalker now. During
Speaker 1: the second session, Cindy repeated her claim about this double murder,
Speaker 1: but this time she went into a lot more detail.
Speaker 1: She told the therapist and Caban and the police that
Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty one, while still married to Roy,
Speaker 1: they had gone sailing near Thornhambee Island. Cindy hated those trips.
Speaker 1: Of course, we already discussed how she was afraid of water,
Speaker 1: terrified of.
Speaker 2: Drowning, right, but he kind of made her go anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so since she didn't want to go, Roy
Speaker 1: was in a bad mood that day even though she
Speaker 1: went right, so her ear toil ability, you know, not
Speaker 1: being wanting to be on the water, just continued to
Speaker 1: send Roy more down a spiral on that day, being
Speaker 1: more and more infuriated, and according to Cindy, he eventually snapped.
Speaker 1: She described how Roy murdered a young couple right in
Speaker 1: front of her and hacked their bodies up with an
Speaker 1: axe and tossed the remains overboard. What. Yeah, she claimed,
Speaker 1: when Roy caught her watching, he smeared blood across her
Speaker 1: face using one of the victims severed limbs.
Speaker 2: What the actual shit?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a horrific story and a massive claim, but
Speaker 1: there is one problem.
Speaker 2: And she's just deciding to share this now.
Speaker 1: But okay, well yeah, but the biggest problem is exactly
Speaker 1: that none of this is true. None of this happened.
Speaker 2: Well, because I'm just confused too. If they were sailing,
Speaker 2: why the fuck is this random young couple with them?
Speaker 2: And I don't know?
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, Well, Roy and said did go sailing
Speaker 1: near Thornaby Island that year before they separated, but they
Speaker 1: weren't alone. Cindy's sister was with them the entire time,
Speaker 1: and she told investigators that absolutely nothing unusual happened on
Speaker 1: that trip. To top it all off, police scoured records
Speaker 1: and found no reports of any missing young couple in
Speaker 1: the area, nor were there any records of dismembered body
Speaker 1: members washing ashore.
Speaker 2: Wow that is weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole incident appeared to be either a false
Speaker 1: memory accidentally implanted during maybe hypnotherapy, or delusions Cindy had
Speaker 1: come to fully believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, this just keeps getting weirder and weirder.
Speaker 1: Cindy's mental state continued to deteriorate, and in late June
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty five, she was involuntarily committed to a
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility after a prescription drug overdose. But initially it
Speaker 1: looked like a suicide attempt. Cindy later insisted that it hasn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, She's never meant to kill herself.
Speaker 1: It was just kind of an accident or whatever.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: When she was Cindy became more determined than ever to
Speaker 1: prove Roy was the one behind everything. She even asked
Speaker 1: police to tap her phone so they could catch him
Speaker 1: in the act. Now, I'm sure they already had her
Speaker 1: phone tapped at this point and they were just like, Okay, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: let's do that. But I could be wrong.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Her belief in this guilt had only solidified after her
Speaker 1: recovery or recovered memory of the double murder, and now
Speaker 1: she was convinced Roy was the one who orchestrated the
Speaker 1: threats to call the attack, all of this sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just said this thought though your mind. Ken
Speaker 2: play tricks on you, especially if you're in like Highley's
Speaker 2: stressful situations, right, Yes, it can. So it could almost
Speaker 2: be making her come up with this, you know, because
Speaker 2: she thinks she's like thinking it's Roy, and then making
Speaker 2: him seem like even more of a terrible person in
Speaker 2: her mind, and.
Speaker 1: Yep, there is a high possiblity, high possibility of that
Speaker 1: being the situation, which we do talk about a little
Speaker 1: bit later. Okay, Cindy called Roy herself, knowing that the
Speaker 1: police were listening into the call, and unleashed everything she believed.
Speaker 1: She told him she remembered him killing the couple on
Speaker 1: the boat, She accused him of abusing her throughout their marriage,
Speaker 1: and insisted he was the mastermind behind her stalking. Roy
Speaker 1: was stunned. He denied everything, the murders, the threats, the abuse,
Speaker 1: and he told Cindy that she was delusional and had
Speaker 1: become obsessed with blaming him for things that he had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with.
Speaker 2: Well, also, if he was, you know, it seems helping
Speaker 2: in some ways. And then he gets this call, he's
Speaker 2: probably just like, what the actual fuck like.
Speaker 1: Just pissed exactly. And so as this conversation escalated, Cindy
Speaker 1: swore she would expose him to gather proof, no matter
Speaker 1: what it took, and Roy was exhausted, fed up, and
Speaker 1: he finally cut her off, and he told her not
Speaker 1: to contact him again unless she planned to take him
Speaker 1: to court. Okay, so he's just like I'm done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, final straw for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, in the weeks that followed, police decided to
Speaker 1: put Roy under surveillance. They wanted to see if he
Speaker 1: would slip up, if he was the one responsible, if
Speaker 1: his movements lined up with harassing phone calls, the letters, anything, right,
Speaker 1: But Roy's life was rather ordinary and honestly kind of boring.
Speaker 2: It wasn't quite as entertaining to watch him.
Speaker 1: No, he went to work, ran errands, and didn't do
Speaker 1: a single thing that raised any suspicions. After an entire
Speaker 1: week of watching him, they called off the surveillance. There
Speaker 1: was nothing. On August fifth, nineteen eighty five, Cindy called
Speaker 1: emergency services to report the next event, which was a
Speaker 1: fire at her home. When firefighters arrived, they found newspapers
Speaker 1: scattered across the floor, clearly meant to act as kindling,
Speaker 1: but the fire itself never really caught and they were
Speaker 1: able to put it out rather easily before it did
Speaker 1: any damage. The next day, firefighters were back once again,
Speaker 1: another attempted fire, more newspapers, but still no real damage.
Speaker 1: Police were already starting to question whether Cindy herself was
Speaker 1: behind these fires. Right, there was no sign of forced entry,
Speaker 1: nothing out of place, no evidence that anyone had broken
Speaker 1: in to start these fires or to burn the house down.
Speaker 1: To investigators, it felt like these were failed fires. They
Speaker 1: were just warm up for something bigger to come. And
Speaker 1: then on August twenty, first, the fires escalated at about
Speaker 1: three fifteen am, Cindy decided, oddly enough to take your
Speaker 1: dog hiding out for a walk at three fifteen.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's a super odd time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though even the last time she went for
Speaker 1: a walk didn't go very well. Right, So we have
Speaker 1: a super odd hour and we have her going out
Speaker 1: and the walk again, when last time she got assaulted. Right,
Speaker 1: So while she was out, her soccer apparently saw the
Speaker 1: opportunity and slipped into the house, set the fire, and
Speaker 1: left once again without a trace. Now this time the
Speaker 1: fire actually spread, and when investigators arrived they found the
Speaker 1: same setup newspapers across the floor used to help start
Speaker 1: the fire. Right. The strange part, the doors in the
Speaker 1: home were all locked when Cindy left the home. There's
Speaker 1: no sign anyone made their way in.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm like, oh, man struggling here, because I'm starting
Speaker 2: to just, i don't know, really be skeptical as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after the investigation, police determined Cindy set the fires herself.
Speaker 2: Well it makes sense that she would, you know, she
Speaker 2: wasn't there. Yeah, and that's when it like she went
Speaker 2: for a walk and her house is like in flames.
Speaker 1: So now that fall. In nineteen eighty five, RCMP officer
Speaker 1: Carol Halliday requested that doctor Anthony Marcus, a psychologist, conduct
Speaker 1: a full evaluation on Cindy and review the case files. Now,
Speaker 1: Halliday had long suspected that Cindy was fabricating the entire
Speaker 1: ordeal and believed that many of the male officers who
Speaker 1: had worked with on Cindy's case, including Ozzie Coban and
Speaker 1: Patrick McBride, have been blinded by their attraction to her.
Speaker 1: To Halliday, it seemed obvious Cindy was manipulating them. After
Speaker 1: reviewing her case and speaking with Cindy directly, doctor Marcus
Speaker 1: offered a surprising theory. He believed Cindy might be suffering
Speaker 1: from disassociative identity disorder. In his opinion, Cindy was genuinely
Speaker 1: terrified because she believed her own story if she was
Speaker 1: the one harming herself, Though Marcus theorized she was doing
Speaker 1: it in a disassociated state with no memory of her
Speaker 1: own actions.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. And also, how good looking is
Speaker 2: this woman then? If she's just able to I don't know,
Speaker 2: make all these police officers, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, don't get me wrong, Like I looked up
Speaker 1: her image and everything, Like she's pretty. She's a good
Speaker 1: looking woman, But I don't think she's like, you know,
Speaker 1: a superdel Yeah, she's not like a temptress or anything
Speaker 1: like that, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, huh.
Speaker 1: Now. By December of nineteen eighty five, Cindy decided it
Speaker 1: was time for yet another fresh start. She moved to Richmond, BC,
Speaker 1: hoping that putting the distance between herself and her past
Speaker 1: would be the answer, but the move brought no peace.
Speaker 1: Now longer after settling in, she was found collapsed in
Speaker 1: a ditch six miles from her new home. Once again,
Speaker 1: Cindy had no idea how she got there. She was bruised,
Speaker 1: cut up, and barely conscious, suffering from hypothermia. Even as usual,
Speaker 1: there was a black nylon stocking wrapped tightly around her neck,
Speaker 1: the same signature from past events.
Speaker 2: You would be even tell if some of that shit
Speaker 2: was self inflicted, though, like the bruising and even probably
Speaker 2: the way the nylon was tied and stuff. So what
Speaker 2: the hell?
Speaker 1: Well, and that's exactly what that doctor was saying that
Speaker 1: he's there. These officers are being blinded to a degree.
Speaker 2: By their attraction, right right, Okay.
Speaker 1: So they're not exactly investigating like.
Speaker 2: A damsel in distress, like oh my gosh, yeah, and
Speaker 2: they just want to help.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, after this latest attack, Cindy left the country
Speaker 1: again to stay with her family, and just like before,
Speaker 1: when she was away, there were no incidents, no calls,
Speaker 1: no letters, nothing. Her brother begged her to stay, to
Speaker 1: leave Canada behind and rebuild her life somewhere where she
Speaker 1: felt safe, but Cindy, she refused.
Speaker 2: I agree, she should just stay with her fam.
Speaker 1: Yeah. When she returned home, her friends Agnes and Tom
Speaker 1: Woodcock turned They took turns sleeping over her house to
Speaker 1: try and keep her company. Cindy had stopped eating at
Speaker 1: this point and was barely taking care of herself. She
Speaker 1: told him more than once that she would rather be
Speaker 1: dead than keep living like this.
Speaker 2: Oh brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. On April sixteenth, nineteen eighty six, with Agnes and
Speaker 1: Tom spending the night, Cindy woke up in a panic,
Speaker 1: saying she heard something downstairs. When they investigated, they found
Speaker 1: another fire, this time in the basement. They tried to
Speaker 1: call the fire department, only to discover that the phone
Speaker 1: line had been cut. Tom ran outside to get help
Speaker 1: and noticed a man standing in the street watching the flames.
Speaker 1: But the second Tom tried to approach, the man took
Speaker 1: off into the night. That was it for Cindy. She
Speaker 1: went straight to police and made a formal statement accusing
Speaker 1: Roy of being behind everything.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, now she has another witness.
Speaker 1: You know, well, he only witnessed a person standing there.
Speaker 2: I guess I Well, could she have set that fire though?
Speaker 2: Or no? I mean I guess she could have said
Speaker 2: it quietly and then and then gotten woken up in
Speaker 2: like a ah kind of thing, and then that's panic.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let me put it in this way. I
Speaker 1: don't understand. I'm not going to pretend to understand what
Speaker 1: is going on, because no one does, right uh huh. Now,
Speaker 1: the theory is disassociative disorder. So she does a thing,
Speaker 1: doesn't remember it, and then, you know, gets in a
Speaker 1: panic state. I'm gonna say, just for instant the sake
Speaker 1: of looking at Devil's advocacy. What if she slept walk,
Speaker 1: did the fire thing, went back to bed, and then
Speaker 1: woke up in a panic, thinking that, like the sleepwalking
Speaker 1: thing that she just did was like a nightmare, and
Speaker 1: she just like, oh, this someone was down there. I
Speaker 1: know I heard them. It was actually hurt, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Kind of random though that this person would just be
Speaker 2: outside too. That would freak me out.
Speaker 1: Well, what if it's just a delinquent tee or something
Speaker 1: like that, who's out to like spray paint some property,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's someone looking to rob something, or maybe
Speaker 1: like who knows, and then their approach and it's like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I got to get out of here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very honestly, it's pretty likely that you run into
Speaker 1: just someone walking by at a situation like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe I have trouble believing that. I guess.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's a high probability, but I'm
Speaker 1: saying it's definitely a situation that could occur. Now, there
Speaker 1: was just one major problem though, because Roy was being
Speaker 1: accused of this. Right yep, Roy wasn't in the country
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, he.
Speaker 1: Had returned to South Africa and had been there for
Speaker 1: actually quite some time. At this point. Police also confirmed
Speaker 1: that during many other harassing phone calls, Roy was under
Speaker 1: surveillance like they're watching him right, like we have eyes
Speaker 1: on him right now. And Cindy just reported a phone call.
Speaker 2: He was not on the phone.
Speaker 1: No, he's like getting groceries or some shit. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there was to police, there was no way he could
Speaker 1: have been the one responsible. Right if he was involved,
Speaker 1: he would have to have an accomplice.
Speaker 2: Which is possible because there has been times where other people,
Speaker 2: like two individuals or like a female or whatever, was involved.
Speaker 1: That's true now by now. Alan Connolly, a psychiatrist who
Speaker 1: had been treating Cindy on and off since nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: He had serious concerns about her mental health. He had
Speaker 1: originally believed her reports of harassment, but in mid nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty six, he feared that Cindy was spiraling into suicidal depression.
Speaker 1: He arranged for her to be involuntary admitted to a
Speaker 1: psychiatric ward in Saint Hospital. There, she was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: anorexia in severe depression. During her stay, Cindy wrote an
Speaker 1: entry in her journal rather concerning one quote I feel
Speaker 1: like suicide is my best option in an unbearable situation,
Speaker 1: and as soon as I get out of here, I'll
Speaker 1: carry out my plan. All Now, over the ten weeks
Speaker 1: stay that she spent in the hospital, Cindy's mental health
Speaker 1: showed remarkable improvement. With steady treatment, structure, and support, she
Speaker 1: seemed to finally regain a small sense of control in
Speaker 1: her life. Now, surprisingly, life it seemed to take a
Speaker 1: turn for the better for her, so she's released from
Speaker 1: the hospital. The call stopped, threatening notes disappeared, and for
Speaker 1: the first time in ages, she could step outside without
Speaker 1: fear that someone was lurking in the shadows. She stuck
Speaker 1: with therapy, telling her counselors that she's starting to feel
Speaker 1: more like herself. By September, Cindy was confident enough to
Speaker 1: buy her own house and was making plans to return
Speaker 1: to work the following month. Now. All this progress, unfortunately
Speaker 1: was short lived. Almost immediately after going back to her
Speaker 1: old job, she was fired. The hospital saw her mental
Speaker 1: health struggles as too much of a liability, and they
Speaker 1: unfortunately let her go.
Speaker 2: WHOA. Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 1: Crushing blow, but Cindy didn't give up. Nearly a year later,
Speaker 1: in August of nineteen eighty seven, she landed a new
Speaker 1: position at Richmond General Hospital. Now, unfortunately, that same month
Speaker 1: the harassment started all over again. Cindy called the police
Speaker 1: to report that someone had tried to break into her
Speaker 1: home tried to pry open a window. Three days later,
Speaker 1: she phoned again, this time saying that the light bulbs
Speaker 1: in her front porch had been loosened as if you know,
Speaker 1: wanting it to be dark from there. It was a
Speaker 1: weekly string of new reports, strange noises, signs of trespassing,
Speaker 1: and Cindy's growing fear that someone was targeting her once
Speaker 1: again like before. About a month in the new renewed harassment,
Speaker 1: Roy make Peace received two bizarre voicemails, one on his
Speaker 1: home answering machine. Sorry, both on his home answering machine,
Speaker 1: and the messages they're from someone who was obviously trying
Speaker 1: to disguise their voice. Now, however, it was very clear
Speaker 1: they were trying to be a pretend to be a
Speaker 1: hired killer. The killer claimed that Roy paid them to
Speaker 1: kill Cindy.
Speaker 2: And this is left on his voicemail.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, and these the voice that's obviously being like disguised.
Speaker 1: It was a female voice. Huh shit, So like my
Speaker 1: voice is like this, and the voice is sucking like this,
Speaker 1: Like it's like a female trying to do this and
Speaker 1: talking on his voicemail. It's yeah, very bizarre. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: when Roy got these messages, he was absolutely fed up
Speaker 1: and he immediately handed these tapes over to his lawyer.
Speaker 1: He didn't trust the police to handle it fairly anymore either. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Cindy was unraveling. She confided in her sister, admitting that
Speaker 1: she felt like she was losing her grip on reality.
Speaker 1: She believed that all the drugs she'd been injecting during
Speaker 1: the past week had somehow damaged her brain, leaving her
Speaker 1: unsure of what was real or what wasn't. Now, Cindy
Speaker 1: went to police and accused Roy, once again of orchestrating everything,
Speaker 1: the threats, the break ins, the harassment. She said, Roy,
Speaker 1: with all his expertise as a psychiatrist, was trying to
Speaker 1: systematically break her mind peace by peace. The police arranged
Speaker 1: another recorded phone call between Cindy and Roy. As before,
Speaker 1: Roy denied everything and he just begged her to leave
Speaker 1: him alone and moved on. He wanted nothing to do
Speaker 1: with her. After they hung up, Roy's lawyer contacted the
Speaker 1: police again and turned over the suspicious voicemails left on
Speaker 1: his entering machine. The police immediately suspected Cindy herself had
Speaker 1: left them trying to frame Broy, which I'm sure we
Speaker 1: all already thought. Two weeks later, Cindy was once again attacked.
Speaker 1: She was found unconscious in her car, naked from the
Speaker 1: waist down and hog tied as always a black nole
Speaker 1: and stocking was tied tightly around her neck. When she
Speaker 1: came to she remembered getting out of her car and
Speaker 1: being grabbed, but after that her memory was blank. The
Speaker 1: cycle started again, threatening notes, phone calls nearly every day,
Speaker 1: and this time the harassment even followed her to work,
Speaker 1: and her coworkers at Richmond General Hospital began finding disturbing
Speaker 1: notes meant for Cindy left around the hospital. After the
Speaker 1: attempted break in, police even brought in sent dogs to
Speaker 1: try and track whoever had been near her home, but
Speaker 1: the dogs came up with nothing, no trail, no scent,
Speaker 1: no evidence. Then about a month later, Cindy was attacked
Speaker 1: for what would be the final time. At around four pms.
Speaker 1: He went to Richmond General Hospital to pick up her paycheck.
Speaker 1: She chatted briefly with some coworkers, and they later recalled
Speaker 1: that she was in surprisingly good spirits. She told them
Speaker 1: that she hadn't had any strange incidents lately and was
Speaker 1: hopeful that maybe the stalking had finally stopped. But knowing
Speaker 1: her luck, she admitted she even still had her dots.
Speaker 1: That night, Cindy had big plans. She was supposed to
Speaker 1: have a high tech infrared security system installed in her house,
Speaker 1: the kind used at banks, right, so making sure that
Speaker 1: you can even see in the dark all this sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. This was going to finally catch whoever was
Speaker 1: tormenting her. After that, Agnes and Tom Woodcock were planning
Speaker 1: to spend the night just like they had many times before.
Speaker 1: After picking up her paycheck, Cindy made a quick stop
Speaker 1: to pick up some groceries, then headed to the bank
Speaker 1: to deposit her check. Security footage showed her leaving the
Speaker 1: bank at about seven fifty nine pm, and after that
Speaker 1: Cindy vanished. When Agnes and Tom Woodcock arrived at her
Speaker 1: house at around ten PM, they immediately noticed something was wrong.
Speaker 1: Cindy's car wasn't in the driveway and the house was
Speaker 1: dark and empty. They managed to speak to her downstairs tenants,
Speaker 1: who told him that Cindy had gone out earlier to
Speaker 1: run some errands, but she hadn't come back yet. Worried,
Speaker 1: the two drove to the shopping center that Cindy usually frequented,
Speaker 1: and there they found her car abandoned in the parking lot.
Speaker 1: Inside the car were her groceries, and sitting beside them
Speaker 1: was a wrapped birthday present for a child's friend. There
Speaker 1: was a blood smear on the driver's side door.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: Inside was also some of Cindy's wallet contents. They were
Speaker 1: scattered underneath the vehicle, and it almost appeared to suggest
Speaker 1: a struggle. Terrified, the two called police and reported Cindy
Speaker 1: missing right away. Now, given her history, law enforcement treated
Speaker 1: it as an urgent case, launching a large scale search
Speaker 1: right away. Her face was plaid stirred everywhere TV newspapers, posters,
Speaker 1: and shop windows, but despite the attention, Cindy remained missing
Speaker 1: for two weeks. Two weeks when she was finally found,
Speaker 1: it was exactly what her family and friends had feared.
Speaker 1: Cindy was discovered in the yard of an abandoned house
Speaker 1: a little over a mile where her car had been left.
Speaker 1: The property sat on a busy street, and although the
Speaker 1: house was vacant, it was known as a large hangout
Speaker 1: for local teams, especially in the summer. However, no one
Speaker 1: had been there for a few weeks. Adding to the eeriness,
Speaker 1: graffiti had recently been sprayed on the house, reading someone
Speaker 1: died here whoa and it circled the exact spot where
Speaker 1: they found Cindy's body.
Speaker 2: WHOA. Okay shit.
Speaker 1: The scene was brutal. Cindy had been beaten severely and
Speaker 1: her hands and feet were tied behind her back. The
Speaker 1: bindings were so tight that one finger had been worn
Speaker 1: down to the bone from trying to free herself.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: She was fully dressed. She wasn't wearing any shoes though,
Speaker 1: and her feet were perfectly clean, indicating that she hadn't
Speaker 1: walked there on her own. And as always, a black
Speaker 1: nylon stalking was wrapped around her neck. A small needle
Speaker 1: mark was found on the inside of her right elbow,
Speaker 1: and for the first time in her ordeal, the toxicology
Speaker 1: reports actually found drugs in her system, a massive overdose
Speaker 1: of morphine along with diazepam and floresepam. I Hope I
Speaker 1: pronounced that correctly, the dose of morphine alone was more
Speaker 1: than ten times a lethal amount. Despite the sheer brutality
Speaker 1: of the scene, the RCMP leaned towards ruling her death
Speaker 1: either as a suicide or an accidental overdose.
Speaker 2: Okay, that okay.
Speaker 1: Their theory was that Cindy, after seven exhausting years of
Speaker 1: stalking attacks and fear, may have overdosed, believing that someone
Speaker 1: would find her in time to save her. So they're
Speaker 1: saying she did this just like they believe she did
Speaker 1: the other attacks. What she set this up? She was
Speaker 1: setting it up to be found. However, no one found her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but would you be found in that way? Like
Speaker 2: would she have been able to do all that to herself?
Speaker 1: That's the question.
Speaker 2: And also, I don't know, just her actions prior to
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense for someone who's about to commit suicide,
Speaker 2: like picks up a check, cashes the check, gets groceries,
Speaker 2: and then also like has this rapped presence? Well, the
Speaker 2: rap present maybe, but getting the money and stuff doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't, it doesn't. You have to consider the fact
Speaker 1: for a moment. Just just think that Cindy was suffering
Speaker 1: from something along the lines of this dissociative disorder. Okay,
Speaker 1: that there is something that Cindy was responsible for this
Speaker 1: and she just doesn't remember. Just pretend that is the case,
Speaker 1: factually the case for the moment, not saying it is.
Speaker 1: Just pretend it is for the moment. Yeah, she had
Speaker 1: seven years to learn how to set this up, to
Speaker 1: learn how to throw police off, to learn how to
Speaker 1: make it look real. So who's to say she didn't
Speaker 1: learn that normal things prior to would make it look real.
Speaker 1: Not saying she's doing it on purpose subconsciously dissociative stuff, right,
Speaker 1: Who's to say she didn't learn how to do it
Speaker 1: over the course of these seven years of these alleged
Speaker 1: attacks and stockings.
Speaker 2: Okay, but how can you explain to me again how
Speaker 2: she was found like she had her finger was all
Speaker 2: fucked up to from her trying to like free herself.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, so she was apparently hog tied. Her hands
Speaker 1: and feet were hogtied behind her back, and the ropes
Speaker 1: were tight enough that her finger was worn down to
Speaker 1: the bone from trying to actually like free herself.
Speaker 2: See, I don't feel like you could do that yourself.
Speaker 2: How the hell could you do that to yourself?
Speaker 1: Good question.
Speaker 2: I just yeah, that that's not sitting well with me. Again.
Speaker 1: Now this description, though, I mean, we are relying on descriptions,
Speaker 1: it's hard to say. Maybe it wasn't as tight as
Speaker 1: it's described and these these reports, maybe that's not quite
Speaker 1: telling the entire picture. I don't know. I don't have
Speaker 1: the exact police reports from the situation, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just don't feel like, Okay, if she
Speaker 2: would say found in her home, you know, with like
Speaker 2: a little beat up or like but laying in bed
Speaker 2: or on her coach or on the floor or something,
Speaker 2: I would maybe like believe the suicide thing a little
Speaker 2: bit more. But this I'm having trouble believing it. I
Speaker 2: guess fair.
Speaker 1: Enough, fair enough. I do want to say, now, working
Speaker 1: at a hospital as a nurse, she does have access
Speaker 1: to needles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, drugs, she does.
Speaker 1: It's like she was drugged with something that she didn't
Speaker 1: have easy access to.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, her friends and family were horrified with the conclusion
Speaker 1: that the authorities came to. They believed that it was
Speaker 1: obvious Roy make Peace was the one behind it, and
Speaker 1: that someone, if not him, you know, it was a murder,
Speaker 1: plain and simple, one way or another, but they did
Speaker 1: believe Roy make Peace was the one behind it. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, a formal inquest into Cindy's death was launched.
Speaker 1: The proceedings stretched over forty days and the testimonies that
Speaker 1: came were shocking. Roy himself even testified, in fact, claiming
Speaker 1: that Cindy had suffered sexual and physical abuse as a child.
Speaker 1: According to Roy, Cindy told him during their marriage that
Speaker 1: her father Auto had been both physically violent and emotionally
Speaker 1: cruel an and even that one of her brothers had sexually.
Speaker 2: Abused her oh Okay.
Speaker 1: Roy said that whenever he tried to talk to Cindy
Speaker 1: about her past, she would explode with age sometimes her
Speaker 1: Various psychiatrists over the years even confirmed this as well.
Speaker 1: Another revelation came from Cindy's parents, who admitted they'd found
Speaker 1: and destroyed a stash of medication in Cindy's home shortly
Speaker 1: after her death. Some of these prescription drugs matched the
Speaker 1: ones she overdosed on. They destroyed the medications because they
Speaker 1: were feel fearful that these would lead authorities to conclude
Speaker 1: her death was a suicide, so they flushed everything down
Speaker 1: the toilet and vowed never to speak of it again,
Speaker 1: so they hid evidence.
Speaker 2: Yikes, okay.
Speaker 1: Cindy's sister Melanie also testified, revealing that she had found
Speaker 1: a glass cutter, a medical syringe, a urinary catheter, and
Speaker 1: saline solution in Cindy's room after her death, items that
Speaker 1: seemed eerily similar to tools used in some of the
Speaker 1: staged attacks. Cindy had previously reported these ones, and you know,
Speaker 1: like these attacks happened whatever, and these tools were most
Speaker 1: likely and potentially used in those attacks. The psychiatrist who
Speaker 1: treated Cindy over the years also took the stand. One doctor,
Speaker 1: Paul Termisano, testified that he believed Cindy suffered from hysteronic
Speaker 1: personality disorder, a condition marked by attention seeking behavior and
Speaker 1: exaggerated emotions. Another specialist suggested borderline personality disorder with elements
Speaker 1: of severe PTSD. Several forensic experts were also brought in
Speaker 1: to demonstrate how Cindy could have tied herself up during
Speaker 1: those past attacks, and medical professionals explained how long she
Speaker 1: could have remained conscious after injecting herself with drugs that
Speaker 1: were found in her system. After forty days of testimony,
Speaker 1: the jury couldn't reach a clear conclusion. They found no
Speaker 1: solid proof that Cindy had been murdered, but they also
Speaker 1: couldn't find definitively proof or one way or another to
Speaker 1: say that it was a suicide. They officially ruled her
Speaker 1: death as death by an unknown event, and with that
Speaker 1: the case was formally closed. The RCMP had spent over
Speaker 1: one point five million dollars investigating the case of Cindy James,
Speaker 1: and yet there was no evidence at hand. There was
Speaker 1: no evidence a stalker ever existed existed, there was no
Speaker 1: evidence there was a murder. And because of that, many
Speaker 1: people who study the case of Cindy James believed that
Speaker 1: she was behind the entire ordeal from the beginning, whether
Speaker 1: she knew it or not. And that's the case of
Speaker 1: Cindy James. Ding fucking dang, yeah right, try and swallow
Speaker 1: that case and process.
Speaker 2: It no shit, Because the amount of times, even just
Speaker 2: listening that I went back and forth to like, there's
Speaker 2: a stocker, No, it's Cindy, there's a stock or no,
Speaker 2: it's Cindy. At this point, I have no fucking idea.
Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even say.
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. Did I or did I not?
Speaker 1: Tell you that you're gonna be like what the fuck
Speaker 1: at the very end, I can't remember what we said
Speaker 1: in part one, the exact quote or how we said it,
Speaker 1: but I remember being like, no, you're gonna be like
Speaker 1: this is a fucking, weird, fucked up case. And I
Speaker 1: can't remember or don't know. Shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this amount of times that I've gone back and forth,
Speaker 2: and I'm even right now, I just did again because
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, like she someone did this to her, No,
Speaker 2: it was her, just oh man, I don't know. No,
Speaker 2: I mean, even the jury couldn't figure it out, right,
Speaker 2: and they had all the details, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, So yeah, I don't even know what else
Speaker 1: to say. I can't say much more on this one,
Speaker 1: because holy shit, what a case. There is so much
Speaker 1: to it, so much tunpack and like you said and
Speaker 1: put it very well, even the jury couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, because she in Part one we did
Speaker 2: discuss though, how she there was she felt like she
Speaker 2: was a little bit I don't know if neglect does
Speaker 2: the right word, but not really giving the attention as
Speaker 2: a child, right, or she didn't get much attention as
Speaker 2: a child. That was a thing, right, I can't recall,
Speaker 2: I don't think so, okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe thinking of a different case.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I was just thinking about the
Speaker 2: one diagnosis where they said that she was like seeking
Speaker 2: attention and stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let me go back in my notes here
Speaker 1: and let's double check this now. I do recall. I
Speaker 1: don't think she had like the best upbringing by any means.
Speaker 1: And obviously, I mean, as far as Roy says, it
Speaker 1: does seem like there was.
Speaker 2: Some other shit really mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So I found the spot that you're
Speaker 1: thinking of here. So I'm just going to read right
Speaker 1: from the script exactly what we said in part one.
Speaker 1: Where should I start? Okay, So she was one of
Speaker 1: six kids, and growing up back then was a whole
Speaker 1: different world Matilda and Auto. Her parents were pretty old school.
Speaker 1: They believe kids should be quiet, behave and not make
Speaker 1: a fuss. Auto in particular, was off as nails if
Speaker 1: he was in a bad mood. It was unusual that
Speaker 1: the kids, sorry, where am I here? It was usually
Speaker 1: there we go. It was usually the kids who ended
Speaker 1: up on the receiving end. And his way of handling
Speaker 1: discipline was well, let's say not exactly gentle. In his mind,
Speaker 1: if something was wrong, he could just smack it out
Speaker 1: of you. From a young age, Cindy figured out the
Speaker 1: safest way was safe at bat was to stay out
Speaker 1: of Auto's stay on Auto's good side. Yeah, okay, Now,
Speaker 1: I mean she did like trying, Like she threw herself
Speaker 1: into her schoolwork and like hope that, like you doing well,
Speaker 1: she might make her dad proud or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she never really yeah happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she is like a sentence I do have
Speaker 1: here is whenever she got even the sliver of attentions
Speaker 1: from him, she would light up and go on about
Speaker 1: her latest accomplishment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it wasn't something that was often handed out
Speaker 2: to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'm not gonna say that she was like
Speaker 1: attention seeking, but she did, I guess, I guess maybe yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So then of a sudden, so I'm just thinking
Speaker 2: as an adult, then you know, she may crave attention
Speaker 2: because she didn't necessarily get it as a kid. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, even if someone craves attention, this is an
Speaker 1: extreme way to go about it. Yeah, because she ended
Speaker 1: up If that is the case, she ended up killing
Speaker 1: herself and she would get attention like holy shit.
Speaker 2: Another thought too that I had while you were chatting
Speaker 2: is if if she'd set this up and then at
Speaker 2: one point, I don't know, I don't know exactly how
Speaker 2: it works, but it came to and realized what the
Speaker 2: fuck she did? You know, because I don't know if
Speaker 2: she I don't know how quickly you can switch back
Speaker 2: and forth to what they're saying she could have, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1: She snaps out of it and she's, yeah, yeah, who.
Speaker 2: Knows, Like she did this to herself in that you
Speaker 2: know state and then comes too from it and is
Speaker 2: like holy shit.
Speaker 1: But if that is the case, if she was in
Speaker 1: a state where she did it to herself and then
Speaker 1: she comes to she probably didn't realize she was the
Speaker 1: one who did it.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but just like panicking to try to get
Speaker 2: out and oh gosh. Well.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing too, is if she was the
Speaker 1: one to do it, as the theory goes, she did
Speaker 1: it to herself expecting to be found and saved, but
Speaker 1: when she came to if she if she did, if
Speaker 1: she did, that's heavily on the if she did theory,
Speaker 1: then when she came to. Then she's struggling to get
Speaker 1: free because hey, she doesn't remember that she put herself
Speaker 1: in that state, but the in that state version of
Speaker 1: herself was expecting her to be found. And then she's struggling,
Speaker 1: and then never did get found, and then she died,
Speaker 1: and then it was two weeks later that she gets found.
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, it's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of theories about it, and it's it's so messed up
Speaker 1: to think about. I don't know where I was going
Speaker 1: with that thought, but it's so messed up to think about.
Speaker 2: I know, in my mind, I think it would just
Speaker 2: be so easy to prove if she did that to herself,
Speaker 2: but I guess it wasn't.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, gang, Yeah, So that's the story of
Speaker 1: Cindy James and the Invisible Man, very aptly named because
Speaker 1: she claimed there was a man stalking her and there
Speaker 1: is no evidence he ever existed at all. If you
Speaker 1: guys have some thoughts in this case, we'd love to
Speaker 1: hear it. Use an email message, you name it. We
Speaker 1: have all our stuff in the description of this podcast.
Speaker 1: You can check it out, get a hold of us,
Speaker 1: check some things out like Patreon. Maybe you can go
Speaker 1: join it. Maybe you can give us a review. We
Speaker 1: are an indie podcast, produced, hosted, researched all of it
Speaker 1: on our own. So thank you for support, because your
Speaker 1: support is what keeps us going.
Speaker 2: Okay, just the last note here, I'm like, creep the
Speaker 2: shit out now, because during this recording, we well, we
Speaker 2: have a scale that talks to us, which is really
Speaker 2: fucking annoying me. You step on there and it's like hello,
Speaker 2: and then it tells you your weight, so it's like announces
Speaker 2: it to the world. But we were just like sitting
Speaker 2: here and the thing was just we haven't used it
Speaker 2: for a few days, and it just started going like hello, hello, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 2: Something was trying to talk to us. Maybe like that
Speaker 2: is so creepy. Maybe it was Cindy.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was.
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, now I don't know how I'm going to
Speaker 2: go about my day.
Speaker 1: Clearly you're still stuck on the scale.
Speaker 2: That's creepy.
Speaker 1: Well not stuck on the scale, but in your mind.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's creepy though. Yeah, that's never done.
Speaker 1: That before, No it hasn't. I mean it is an
Speaker 1: older scale at this point. Maybe it's just starting to
Speaker 1: crode inside yourself.
Speaker 2: Throw it out and get We.
Speaker 1: Have a haunted scale in our.
Speaker 2: House communicating about these cases.
Speaker 1: What if it's not Cindy, What if it's the invisible Man?
Speaker 2: Okay, we gotta go.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, until next time, stay wicked,