1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,879 Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,160 In this episode, we're going to pick up where we 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,199 left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's get 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,839 right back to it, shall we. McCauley, did you ever 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:20,600 hear or observe Jeffrey talking on the phone about Frederick Fokai? Answer? Yes, 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,039 manager objection leading McCauley. What did you hear? Answer? I 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,800 heard him call someone and say, for Kai is in Hawaii, 8 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:32,280 can we find some girls for him? McCauley. And what 9 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:36,000 was your reaction to that? Answer? Well, I was massaging 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,520 and I didn't have a reaction. I tried to remain 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,520 reaction lists the whole five years. McCauley. Did Jeffrey ever 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,439 take you shopping? Answer? Yes, McCauley. Can you describe for 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,280 me what happened? Answer? Sure, he took me to Victoria's Secret, 14 00:00:50,359 --> 00:00:52,960 Of course he did. I believe he picked out everything 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,280 and went into the room with me, the fitting room, 16 00:00:55,439 --> 00:00:59,039 which was very odd. McCauley. Did he make any comments 17 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:03,039 about being in the fitting room with you? Answer? He 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,319 joked that one time he was in there with another 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,400 girl and she said something like dad. But that's all, 20 00:01:08,439 --> 00:01:12,439 I recall, McCauley, did Jeffrey ever talk to you? Let 21 00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:15,000 me back up a moment. Have you ever been propositioned 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,599 by anyone to have a baby for someone? Answer yes, McCauley. 23 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:24,040 And who propositioned you, McCauley, Jeffrey asked me. McCauley. Did 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,760 he ask you more than once? Answer yes, McCauley. And 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,200 what did he say? Answer? Basically just said I want 26 00:01:31,239 --> 00:01:34,000 you to be the mother of my baby. McCauley. And 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,680 do you recall your response to that answer? I don't 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,519 believe that. I said flat out no. I didn't agree 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,799 to it. I wouldn't just say oh yeah, really okay, McCauley. 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,040 Did you ever bring other girls over? As Maxwell requested? 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:56,040 Manager objection leading hearsay form Joanna one time, McCauley. Let 32 00:01:56,079 --> 00:01:57,959 me back up for a minute, just to make it 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,799 a clean question. Did you ever bring friends over to massage? Jeffrey? 34 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:06,079 Answer no, McCauley. And why did you not bring friends 35 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:10,439 over to massage? Jeffrey answer? I was living in secret 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,240 about what I was doing during the massages, and I 37 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,280 did not want my friends to be to know what 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,960 I was doing, so I did not want anyone else 39 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:22,240 coming into that, McCauley, was Bill Clinton a friend of 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,919 Jeffrey Epstein's manager? Objection foundation McCauley, let me back up. 41 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:30,199 Do you know if Bill Clinton was a friend of 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,840 Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I knew he had dealings with Bill Clinton. 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,479 I did not know that there were friends until I 44 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,039 read the Vanity Fair article about them going to Africa together. McCauley, 45 00:02:41,159 --> 00:02:44,560 did Jeffrey ever talk to you about Bill Clinton? Answer? 46 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,599 He said one time that Clinton likes them young, referring 47 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:51,400 to girls. McCauley, did you ever do you recall ever 48 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,479 taking a trip to Jeffrey Epstein's home in New Mexico? 49 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,039 Answer yes, McCauley. And do you recall who went with 50 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,479 you on that trip? Answer? Sarah Kellen was there, Glene 51 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,840 was there. That's all I recall. McCauley. Do you recall 52 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:07,800 where you went or why you went on the trip 53 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,840 to New Mexico? Answer to work McCauley. Did you perform 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,919 massages on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley. Did you do 55 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,960 you recall whether you perform massages with Sarah Kellen on 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,520 that trip? Answer no, McCauley. Do you recall in the 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,000 New Mexico home ever observing nude photos of females there? 58 00:03:27,159 --> 00:03:31,199 Answer I don't recall. McCauley. When you would provide massages, 59 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,439 would you provide those massages naked? Answer on occasion McCauley 60 00:03:35,719 --> 00:03:38,039 on average? Would you be naked if it was one 61 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,719 hundred percent of the time more than fifty percent of 62 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:45,599 the time? Or what answer? Can you repeat it? McCauley, sure, 63 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,719 when you're performing the massages, can you tell me you 64 00:03:48,759 --> 00:03:51,520 said on occasion? Over the five years that you worked 65 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,599 for him, how often did you perform massages naked? Answer 66 00:03:55,719 --> 00:04:00,000 somewhere between twenty five and fifty percent of the time. McCauley. 67 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,479 Did Epstein try to make the massage a sexual? Answer 68 00:04:03,639 --> 00:04:07,080 on occasion? McCauley. Would Epstein have you rub his nipples? 69 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:13,280 Answer yes, McCauley. Would he masturbate during the massage? Answer yes, McCauley. 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,920 Did he use sex toys or vibrators on you? Answer yes, McCauley. 71 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:20,879 Would he leave the sex toys or vibrators out after 72 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,480 the massage or would he clean up after himself? Manager 73 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:30,439 objection vague form answer he did not ever clean up. McCauley. 74 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:33,480 Do you believe that your experience during the years you 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,879 were with Jeffrey and Maxwell damage you manager objection leading 76 00:04:38,079 --> 00:04:43,920 and form answer it affected me. Damaged is a strong word, McCauley. 77 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,680 And in what way did it affect you? Answer? It 78 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,360 affected future relationships with men, trust issues, expectation issues. McCauley. 79 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:56,399 Did you observe Nadia Marsenkova and Glean at the house 80 00:04:56,439 --> 00:05:01,439 at the same time? Manager objection leading in form answer, 81 00:05:01,519 --> 00:05:05,199 I don't recall McCauley. On the USVII trip, the second 82 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,560 trip that you took, do you recall Nadia Marsenkova being present? Answer? 83 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,120 I believe she was present on that trip. McCauley. Do 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,199 you recall Maxwell being present on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley. 85 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:20,959 Do you know an individual by the name of redacted? 86 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,759 Answer yes, McCauley. And who is redacted? Answer? She was 87 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,759 one of the girls that was around McCauley, was redacted 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:36,439 around both Jeffrey Epstein and Glen Maxwell. Answer, I don't recall, McCauley. 89 00:05:36,639 --> 00:05:39,319 Do you recall when you first met redacted? Answer in 90 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:45,399 Palm Beach McCauley at Jeffrey Epstein's home. Answer yes, McCauley. 91 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,720 And what do you recall any observations about redacted when 92 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:51,800 you met her? Answer to speak with she was a 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,959 little rough around the edges, and I could see the 94 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,879 progression of her being groomed a little. They got her braces. 95 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 She had terrible posture, and with a lot of massages, 96 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:03,600 she learned to stand up straight. So I just saw 97 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,800 her become a much more confident person. McCauley, do you 98 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,560 recall how old she was when you first met her? Answer? 99 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,079 I assumed she was eighteen, but I don't know her age. McCauley. 100 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,720 We're going to take a break really quick and then 101 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,879 we'll be back. So we are going to go off 102 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:21,920 the record, and after a ten minute break, they're back. McCauley, 103 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,040 I'm just going to resume. I have a few more 104 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,399 questions for you. You mentioned visiting the US Virgin Islands. 105 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,360 Do you recall doing any activities with Maxwell when you 106 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:35,600 were on the visit to the USVII manager objection vague 107 00:06:35,639 --> 00:06:39,879 as the time the witness I don't recall, McCauley. Do 108 00:06:39,959 --> 00:06:43,879 you ever recall going hiking with her? Answer? Yes, McCauley. 109 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,399 Did Maxwell ever ask you to try to bring other 110 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:51,160 girls over for Jeffrey? Answer? At that time McCauley. Yes. 111 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,720 Answer no, McCauley, any other time? Answer well, she had 112 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:58,439 asked me if I knew anyone that could perform massages 113 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,240 that would come to the house McCauley. And what was 114 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:08,360 your understanding of that request? Manager objection? Answer well manager 115 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:13,519 form witness. I just wondered why they wouldn't just call me. McCauley. 116 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,439 And did you bring anybody else over to that house 117 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,240 to perform massage? Answer I did not, McCauley. When you 118 00:07:21,279 --> 00:07:24,199 were either in the USVII or in Palm Beach, did 119 00:07:24,199 --> 00:07:27,120 you ever observe any females either topless or naked by 120 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,839 the pool? Answer yes, McCauley. What did you observe? Answer 121 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,319 and mostly skinny dipping. McCauley. Do you know who the 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:41,000 individuals were that you observed? Answer Sarah Kellen and Golaine McCauley, 123 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:45,879 anybody else? Answer yes, but I don't recall who McCauley. 124 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:50,240 Did that happen on more than one occasion? Answer yes, McCauley. 125 00:07:50,399 --> 00:07:55,480 How often do you remember making those observations? Answer three times. McCauley. 126 00:07:55,759 --> 00:07:58,279 Do you recall giving a statement to the police regarding 127 00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:02,399 Jeffrey Epstein Answer yes, McCauley. Do you recall when you 128 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,160 gave that statement? Answer? I don't recall the date. McCauley. 129 00:08:06,279 --> 00:08:08,839 Do you recall the year? Answer I want to say 130 00:08:08,839 --> 00:08:11,040 it was early two thousand and six or late two 131 00:08:11,079 --> 00:08:14,240 thousand and five. McCauley. Do you recall who you met with? 132 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:19,319 Answer no. McCauley. Do you recall what you told police? Answer? 133 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,800 It was similar to this. They were asking me a 134 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,120 lot of questions that I answered. They knew a lot, 135 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,759 They knew what the bathroom looked like, they knew what 136 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,959 the couch had a hot pink throw on it with 137 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,279 green tassels. I assumed that there had been videos and 138 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,200 they'd seen me they had seen the videos. That's what 139 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,720 I had assumed. I didn't know that maybe people had 140 00:08:37,759 --> 00:08:40,919 already come forward and had given them statements and just 141 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,519 to interject the videos again, another person on the inside 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,240 talking about videos. Yet we have not seen one single video. 143 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:53,639 Question is where are these videos? McCauley. Did they ever 144 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,679 talk to you at all about the videos? Answer? They said, 145 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,240 were you aware that there were video cameras in the house? 146 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,320 I said no, but it would not surprise me. Ms. McCauley, 147 00:09:03,399 --> 00:09:05,600 and I'm going to mark exhibit four. Do you have 148 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:08,960 an extra? Sorry? Did you get one? Okay, Robert zero 149 00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:12,159 zero two through eighty nine, and I'm going to direct 150 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,960 you to page zero zero zero seventy six and I'm 151 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,639 going to hand it to you. The refer to document 152 00:09:17,759 --> 00:09:21,399 was marked by the court reporter for identification as Schoberg 153 00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:24,960 Exhibit four. McCauley, I'm just going to ask you to 154 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,320 take a look at that. As you can see here 155 00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:29,879 under the narrative line there there is a name. It 156 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,200 says reported by Racary, Joseph. Is that a name you 157 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:38,559 recall meeting with a detective? Detective Racary? Answer? Yes, I 158 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,240 mean I don't recall his name, only except that he 159 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:44,200 had been following me around and left me cards like 160 00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:46,919 on my car and in my door. I tried to 161 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,000 avoid him for a long time. McCauley. And can you 162 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,840 just look at the text underneath there? Answer? Uh huh, McCauley. 163 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,840 Take a moment to look at that. Answer Okay, sure, McCauley. 164 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,279 Does that refresh your record election as to what you 165 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,320 told the police during the investigation? Answer? There are mistakes 166 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,480 in here. I was not twenty three when I met him. 167 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,919 I was twenty one. McCauley, anything else that doesn't look correct, 168 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:14,759 answer the same error that I had met him three 169 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,639 years ago, and it obviously had been closer to five. 170 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,120 There is also the error he obviously misunderstood me. He 171 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,919 did not pay for my tuition at college. I'm still 172 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,559 paying those school loans. But he did pay for me 173 00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:30,320 to go to massage school and cosmetology school. Okay, it 174 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,200 pretty much ends here McCauley, yes, right about halfway through 175 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:39,159 the page. Answer Okay, miss McCauley. So, Johannah, that concludes 176 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,600 my initial peace. I'm going to reserve the rest of 177 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,279 my time for redirect. I'm going to turn it over 178 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:47,360 to Laura manager. Who is Laura? Can we just take 179 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:51,159 a little break. McCauley's sure, no problem. The videographer off 180 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,879 the record at ten oh five, so that looks like 181 00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:56,000 the perfect place for us to take a break as well. 182 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,279 And then when we pick back up, we'll get to 183 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,879 the cross examination by Hi Laura Meninger. All of the 184 00:11:01,919 --> 00:11:05,039 information that goes with this episode can be found in 185 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,120 the description box.