Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely You Can't Be
Serious Podcast, discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten
of eighties and nineties pop culture with your co hosts
James D.
Speaker 2: Graves and Jason Hollywood.
Speaker 3: You're father.
Speaker 4: Copman.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, we're back for part two of the Superman
one and two versus Man of Steel debate. Once again,
John Reid from the thirty Something Movie podcast is joining us.
Speaker 5: Hey John, Hey guys, I'm really excited. Thank you so
much for having me back here.
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 5: I'm ready to throw down like that that Muhammad Ali
Superman think. I'm ready to throw down mite this out.
You know, May the best Superman win?
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 4: I know that in Man of Steel there is no
Lex Luthor, but I think we should talk about Gene
Hackman for just a second.
Speaker 3: Gene Hackman is maybe next to Christopher Reeve. My favorite
part of the Superman one and two series is not
the mustache twirling villain at all. Anything that you get
from him that's evil is just dialogue that he's speaking.
In all other respects, he seems kind of like a
funny guy and easy to get along with. Other than
he's so full of himself.
Speaker 4: When he was hired, he had a mustache. This is
like mustache Gene Hackman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the original posters had a picture of Marlon Brando
and Gene Hackman, and Gene Hackman had.
Speaker 4: A full on Mustache's crazy, and he didn't want to shave.
Didn't want to shave his mustache. Number one didn't want
to shave his head either. But Dick Donner called him.
He said, all right, listen, dude, you if you'll shave
your mustache, I'll shave my mustache. So Hagman's like all right, Well,
Dick Donner didn't have a mustache.
Speaker 5: Not only that, he when he said I'll shave my
mustache if you shave yours, he actually had a fake
mustache on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then after Genie.
Speaker 5: Hackman, Yeah, after Gene Hackman shaped his he's like all right,
He's like okay, cool quick and people. And that's the
story why Gene Hackman didn't come back for the sequel.
Speaker 4: I think it's funny that Lex Luthor is supposed to
have all these hair pieces, but I mean, anybody you
know who wears a tuope that has a bultipier, So
anytime you see Hackman. It's bald. It's a bald cat.
But I love Gene Hackman. He's charming, he's funny. I
talked to you the other day, and I'm like, when
he first meets Superman and kind of lures himTo his
layer by making that vague thread about toxin gas or whatever.
He doesn't have a plan to commit any kind of crime,
and yet he has instant credibility and Superman shows up
and not kicks in his door. I'm like, that happens
every day on Twitter.
Speaker 3: In addition to Lex Luthor, we didn't have Otis, who
was played by Ned Beatie, who was fantastic. Mister luthorw
it just aside real quick. The officers, the police officers
and Superman one not only know who Lex.
Speaker 4: Luthor is, but know who his goons are.
Speaker 3: Because they see Otis in decides to start following that
scene when the guy gets pushed in front of the
train matter for me as a kid, I remember that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but his partner, the other guy, I guess he
must have done pretty well because he ends up being
the police chief for Riggs and Murdoch. No, that sign
says Riggs, Yeah, but I don't give up. You don't
have Miss Testmaker and Man of Steel either. No, you don't,
Valet Perine. Oh my word, her cleavage caused the entire
US military.
Speaker 3: To fall apart at the end of Superman one, right,
I mean the I dream of Genie Guy hit some
five transferred over to the Army branch, and he was
high enough in command to be solely responsible.
Speaker 4: She literally lays down, shows her boobs, and he assumes
control of nuclear weapon. I can remember.
Speaker 3: It's so I have a he's ten years old right now,
and this has been five years because he has been five,
four or five years old, and I had Superman on
a tablet of some kind and he was sitting with
me and we're watching Superman for the first time and
it gets to that scene she's in the green bathing
suit and she's laying down and you know, her chest
is just in her arms, and my four to five
year old son pushes pause on the table.
Speaker 4: It stops, stops going and goes dad, When I grow
up and get married, I'm going to marry a girl
like her, all right, Drell? Okay, So Durell.
Speaker 3: We've got Marlon Brando, who we've talked about, and Russell
Crowe from a Man of Steel. Marlon Brando was paid
three point and there's some rough estimation on the figures here,
but somewhere between three point five and three point seven
million dollars for his performance in this which is less
than twenty minutes long, and then got an absurd percentage
on the back end of like eleven and three quarters
and still sue to get more money. And then before
they started shooting, he called and tried to convince Dick
Honor that instead of having him appear on screen, that
they could do a talking suitcase or a bagel of
some kind, because nobody knows what Kryptonians really look like,
so why not just use his voice. It's funny to
listen to an interview with him about the amount of
money that he was paid.
Speaker 4: People pay what they deem.
Speaker 3: Something is worth, and some things are worth more than others.
Speaker 4: Cars are worth more than.
Speaker 3: Hula hoops, which I listened to it I laughed out
loud just because of the idea. And then I watched
the movie. I was like, oh, my gosh, there's actually
hula hoops in his scene. Yeah, yeah, the hulo hoops
that are keeping the criminals from escaping.
Speaker 4: In fairness to him though. He's absolutely right, and he
was the key piece to getting this done. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean certainly he had the star power
to demand what he got, and you know, dig Donner
and his interview says, I was really skeptical of the
idea of paying Marlon Branda this much money, but once
I started working with him, I realized, yeah, he's worth it.
Speaker 4: Well what about Russell Crowe? Where are we with Russell Crowe? Okay,
so I know you love Russell Crowe, love Russell. We've
had this talk.
Speaker 3: I didn't like him Gladiator, but I thought he did
fantastic in this. I thought he was a compelling drill
who was smart and active and had a plan, and
he was great. He's great as a hologram.
Speaker 4: This part was a little confused. I always have this
the AI, you know, can they hear me? Can they
understand me? Are they thinking? This whole thing is a
little bit confusing to me? But I like both the actors.
I just I don't know. I think you could almost
make a case that Man of Steel, that you didn't
really need all this stuff, that you could start with
Clark on The Deadliest Catch.
Speaker 3: Well, see, now that's an interesting comparison.
Speaker 4: I've got that over here.
Speaker 3: So when I watched Man of Steel, I was like, Wow,
they are really spending a significant amount of time on
Krypton here, right, You're getting a whole lot more story
than you got with Superman.
Speaker 2: I mean they.
Speaker 4: Fleshed out the place.
Speaker 3: You get a better understanding of why Zodd is rebelling
against the people. You get a better trial scene. Durrell
has an entire storyline that goes along with why he's
doing what he's doing, has time to dive into the
water and get the Codex to take I mean, this
is I was like, wow, they must have spent like
a ton of time. I looked, it's twenty minutes from
beginning of movie until Krypton explodes in Man of Steel.
In Superman, it's twenty one minutes.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I thought they gave you so much more detail
and depth in Man of Steel about what Krypton was
like and why these characters were doing what they were
doing than you ever got in Superman.
Speaker 4: Did you know that that's roughly the same amount of
time that the kid who fell off with the Niagara
Phallas as he fell took about twenty minutes for Superman
to get us act together and go rescue that kid.
Speaker 3: And when he you know, after he appears, saves Lois
Lane for the first time and thinks, think I'll shoot
the rest of the night away fighting minor crime. And
he confronts the cat burglar who's crawling up up the windows,
and that guy starts to fall once again. Superman's got
a time to smirk, shake his head. Oh well, I guess.
Speaker 4: I'll zoom down and get him.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 4: I do want to throw in real quick Kevin Costner
and Diane Lane as mol and Paul k can't I
love what they did in this, absolutely love it.
Speaker 3: With the Superman movies, you've got you get a very
brief glimpse of Martha and Jonathan Kent. They have a
great little bit where they discover him, and you have
the falling truck, which I think will live in everybody's
memory forever as the little kid lifts that truck up.
A quick side.
Speaker 4: Note on that guy.
Speaker 3: The guy's name is the little kid, you know, the
little kid who's naked and then who's lifting up the truck.
Speaker 4: His name is.
Speaker 3: Aaron Smolensky and he is the only actor who has
been in Superman one, Superman three, and Man of Steel.
He was remember at Superman three where he gets into
the photo booth and like it has pictures of him
changing from Clark Kenton Superman.
Speaker 4: He played the kid at the photo booth.
Speaker 3: On that one, and then of course he's an adult
now and so he played a communications officer and Man
of Steel. And there's some sort of fan film that
there is in development right now called Superman Versus Doomsday,
and if it gets made, he'll be Lex Luthor in
that he's bald now, so looks like it could go
to looks Lex Sluthor. But what an interesting life that
guy has to have had it so far. But back
to moln Pap Kent, Jonathan and Martha Kent. You don't
get much from him, I mean, especially mock Kent. You
don't get much at all. She's just kind of there, yeah, homely,
she's old man, she's a little silver headed old woman.
You don't get much from her other than you know,
I love you, don't forget, I'll never forget. But you
got way different parenting in this one. Martha Kent is
fan f fantastic.
Speaker 4: I love her.
Speaker 3: Diane Lane, you know she can pull off young and
old very easily. I bought her being old enough to
be his mom and then always beautiful. Yeah, she still
still can pull off being very young as well.
Speaker 4: And Kevin Costner does a great sort of Midwestern you know.
I kept waiting for him to ask him if you
want to have a catch.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I mean he's great, He's mister field of dreams, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And people had a problem with Jonathan Kent when Clark
Kent says, should I just have let them die?
Speaker 4: Him saying maybe, but you've.
Speaker 3: Got to have that in order to establish within Clark
how critical the idea of people cannot know what you
can do.
Speaker 4: I totally agree with that. I've heard the criticism. But
I mean you and I have teenagers, John, I mean
your kids are not teenagers yet.
Speaker 2: But yeah, my oldest is twelve.
Speaker 4: Okay, even if for a twelve year old to have
godlike powers at that age and the decision making abilities,
And Kevin Custner is, why is telling him let's let's wait,
let's wait until you're ready to become the greatest being
on this earth.
Speaker 5: When people were making such a big deal out of that,
I kept thinking the same thing was, well, first of all,
it's a movie. Second of all, put yourself in that
person's place. You get the portrayal of Manpa Kent is
in the original Superman movie is very much your classic. Well,
it's a kindly old farm couple and they've raised this
boy to be their own and they you know, good
Midwestern United States values and everybody. You know, it's all
very pure, and it's all there's not a whole lot
of complication here. And you put yourself in the character
of what Jonathan Kent as a human would have been like,
and I feel like, well, I can't imagine I would
be any different, Like I would be a little paranoid,
and I would be concerned that if I let this slip,
somebody's taken my son away and they're gonna experiment on him,
and they're gonna do all this other crazy stuff.
Speaker 2: And not to mention, you.
Speaker 4: Have people start asking questions about how you illegally adopted
a child.
Speaker 5: Right to me, I didn't have a problem with that.
When that whole thing came out, and I remember seeing
that the trailer and I remember having a discussion with
and it might have been might have been Jeff, one
of the other guys that's on the podcast with us
sometimes we might have had a discussion about that and
he was like, well, how do you feel about that?
And I was like, you know what, First of all,
it's in a trailer, so it could be completely out
of context. So let's actually watch the movie and see
and he's like, that makes sense. And even watching the
movie and that line, it's like, you know, should I
should I have let them die?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 5: Well, okay, So watching this as an audience member watching
a movie, I can sit there and have the luxury
of saying, oh, Jonathan, no, no, no, bad advice, bad advice.
But as a person like if I'm living in this
world and if that's me, I probably would say something
like that. I might regret it later on and they're like, Okay,
I've made a mistake.
Speaker 2: Never mind. We don't let anybody ever die.
Speaker 5: But in the moment when I've got a scared kid
that's asking me questions and like you said, he's got
this godlike power at age thirteen or whatever he was, yeah,
i'd probably be a little freaked out too.
Speaker 3: Another detail touch just you don't even notice it. I
know this because I watched them behind the scenes when
he ultimately shows Clark the spaceship that he came to
Earth in. You get these extreme close ups of the
desk behind him, and it's all his research on alien
life and you know, extraterrestrial's UFO sightings, all of this.
They went to the trouble to get all of that
prepared for that tiny little scene that you don't even see.
It's just kind of kind of crazy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, before we jump ahead, I did want to say
one thing about Diane Lane's Martha Kent is. To me,
that's and I'm fine with the kindly old Martha Kent too.
I mean that's traditionally, that's how she's portrayed in nearly
everything else. But this Diane Lane Martha Kent, like she
stands up to Zod And if you're a mother who
has raised this child and he eventually someday is going
to become Superman, that's the Martha Kent that I would
expect to see, like someone who You've got this alien
in front of you that has ridiculous power. He's you know,
there's a couple of other theres too. They've thrown a
truck into your house and you're still going to stand
up to the guy. Like to me that Superman's mom.
Speaker 2: He has powers as.
Speaker 6: We do, certainly, but oh, magnificent one. He is just
one or you are three or four if accounting twice.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: In terms of the character of Non they've introduced him
into the newer comics and he's got a much more
tragic story. I think that his story in the newer
comics is he was friends with Joel and he was
a member of the Kryptonian Council, and he.
Speaker 2: He was like lobottomized. Yeah, he was lobottomized.
Speaker 5: And so every time, you know, Joel sees him up
until the destruction of Krypton, like it breaks his heart
because that was a very close friend of his. And
so it's obviously got a little bit more of a
backstory when when you add that piece into it. One
of the one of the characters that I was hoping
that we would mention but didn't get mentioned. He's only
in the original Superman for one or two seconds. The
actor's name, I believe is Bo Rucker, and he played
the pimp in Superman.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 5: That's and I didn't want to I didn't want us
to go beyond the actors and the characters without mentioning
the pimp, because that is possibly the best line in
the movie. And there have been times, and I love
that my children have no idea what I'm quoting up
until they see the movie and they're like, oh, so
you didn't make that up. That's where you got that from.
But there are times where if my kids will come
in the room, they'll be like, Dad, this is what
I'm wearing to church today.
Speaker 2: Is this okay? Or or Dad, this is what I've
got on? Is this all right? A lot of times
I'll go say, Jim, that's a bad outfit, But that
is the best.
Speaker 5: I mean, just just and seeing that as a kid,
that completely blew over my head of how funny that is.
But as an adult and Christopher reeve his response to
the whole thing, that is probably one of the most hilarious,
like three or four seconds in the entire movie, because
he does the whole revolving door thing, steps outside and
the pimp says his line, say Jim, that's a bad outfit,
and Superman just goes, excuse me, puts one finger and
that flies away just like that. You could just have
played me that four seconds and I would have said no, what,
Superman's the greatest movie it's ever been.
Speaker 2: That's all I need to see.
Speaker 3: Young Clark in Superman movies was played by Jeff East. Now,
when I watched these movies, I was like, holy cow,
They've got a guy who sounds exactly like Christopher Reeve
to play the young Christopher Reeve. I mean it doesn't
look like in that much, but his voice is identical.
No wonder they picked this guy. Yeah, so I was dumb.
Chris Reid dubbed all those lines. Yeah, and they did
it without Jeff East's knowledge. Now, Jeff East has been
in a few other movies. Do you guys remember the
old Tom Sawry movie with the red headed Tom Sawyer
and Jodie Foster was He played Huck Finn in that movie,
like a.
Speaker 4: Big bet yoah, what's doing?
Speaker 1: I'm good dubbing in the bottom of the much that's good?
Speaker 3: Can we don't give a hoot a He was really
upset when he saw the movie and saw that his
lines had been dubbed over by Christopher Reeve. He didn't know,
the producers didn't tell him that that was going to happen.
He didn't know what was gonna happen, so he was
a little irritated. And then another interesting story for him.
You know they're doing he does the train race where
they've got him kind of an absurd running thing, but
I loved.
Speaker 4: It when I was a kid. His gait is a
little strange, It is a little.
Speaker 3: A little bit weird, but he they do that scene
where he jumps in front of the train just at
the last second, and they're using a real train, and
he's that. He almost died at some point as they
were trying to film this because one of the cables
didn't do the like one of the cranes didn't do
the right thing, and he swung back around and Richard Hackman,
Gene Hackman's brother, who was the stunt guy on the scene,
grabbed him before he swung back in front of the
train and died.
Speaker 5: Now, since you brought it up, that was one of
the things that I really liked about. How Man of
Steel handled the Young Clark Kent piece was yeh, And
I thought it was a pretty It was a fresh
take on it that I just had not seen before
watching that and thinking, you know what, the way he's
dealing with these powers and these sensations that he just
can't understand. It really reminded me of you know, a
lot of times when a student will get diagnosed with
some kind of a learning disability or whatever it might be,
and I thought, you know, what is that the route
that they're going to kind of take with this, is that,
you know, what if we think of Superman as or
what if we think of Clark Kent as he was
a child that from the outside world he grew up
with some kind of a disability like that would be
an interesting take that I've never seen or heard of before.
And just the way that you know his mom, you know,
he panics because he you know, sees through his teacher,
which would freak out anybody. I'm glad he didn't stop
and be like pink. That would be pink.
Speaker 2: The teacher says, that's all awkward.
Speaker 5: But and then you know, he runs and locks himself
in that closet, and then his mom has to come
and kind of talk him through the whole thing. And
he can hear all the kids making the comments about
him outside the room, and the way she's just calming
him down and trying to get him kind of back
out of this panic that he's in I mean, I've
seen students who actually do that. They just the world
just overwhelms them so much. The sensory stuff that's coming
in just gets to them so much that they just
cannot They don't know how to process it.
Speaker 3: His life is a lonely existence, and the story of
young Clerk Kent in Man of Steel, I mean, really
informs who he is as an adult. And even going
back and watching the original Superman movies with Christopher Reeve,
you get that loneliness as well. There's this scene where
he's tried to get Lois to go out with him,
and she won't go out with him, and then he
tries to say hi to the guys in the hall
as he's waiting for the elevator, and it gets ignored,
and then he's just kind of standing there waiting on
the elevator, and there's this sense of loneliness of this
is what comes with being Superman. It's not you know,
we all think, oh, gosh, I just want to be Superman,
but there's this huge isolation that comes with the job
that it's tough.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what, though Superman as a strange child
or a lonely man as a whole lot better than
Superman as a stalker that you get in Superman Returns
when he breaks into that person's house. And I mean,
if you've got super Man as an intruder, you got
a problem.
Speaker 3: I'm bullying. I've got a full note on this one.
Bullying is a huge part of this. And John, I
feel like, and I could be totally making this up
in my head, but I feel like you posted maybe
an article a few months ago on kind of the
notion of bullying and that sometimes it makes gets stronger.
And Chris Rock's got a comedy specialist on Netflix right now,
where like he finds out that they have a no tolerance.
Speaker 4: Policy for bullying at his daughter's school and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, I almost pulled her out right Then he says,
bullies made me who I am, And so it's you know,
bullying is a huge part of the backstory of a
Superman in both movies. You get more of it in
the original trilogy with the Smallville guy. What was that
guy's name, Brad? What a slimee ball? But then in
the Man of Steel when you get I mean, you
imagine if you were able to hear every ugly thing
that people said about.
Speaker 5: You, right, what would that turn you into? If you
had if you could hear everything in town? Yeah, and
you heard every rumor, you heard every kid whispering about you.
Speaker 3: That idea is what is the driving force behind the
whole beginning story for Man of Steel. I mean, the
whole story really for Man of Steel is this unspoken
question for Clark, which is is humanity worth saving? Because
you get Seen after Seen, where you've got humans being
despicable followed up by humans doing the right thing. You've
got the guy saving his life on the what were
they doing on the boat?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Catch man?
Speaker 3: You know, he saves his life and then he calls
you know, these calls him a dumba. But this kind
of means like, you know, even though he thinks I'm
an idiot, he still saved me, which then leads to him.
Speaker 4: You know, saving all those guys on the oil ricord.
You've got the kids.
Speaker 3: Being mean to him, and then his mom comes in
and it's nice to him. You've got peace Ross being
mean to him on the bus before Lana's nice to him,
which leads to him saving Pete. Then you got the bully,
you know, picking on him while he's reading Plato and
and who is it that shows up to be nice?
It's Pete Ross who he's changed, you know, it's it's this.
Speaker 2: You got, you got the guy at the bar later
on that throws the beer at.
Speaker 3: Him, right, and the waitress who's you know, he's like,
it's not worth it, honey. And then and then it
all culminates with Lois, who you know, she's going to
get the story.
Speaker 4: She's going to get the story.
Speaker 3: She finally figures it out, but when she realizes what's
at stake, she drops it. She doesn't let him go,
which then gives you those lines later on where he
says thank you and she says for what and he
says for believing in me? And she said it didn't
end up meaning very much, and he says it did
for me.
Speaker 2: That's she's She's the humanity that's worth saving.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the whole question. And you talked about this
in your podcast, And this was a huge deal for me.
When I saw a Man of Steel the front time,
I was kind of heavily into reading the Bible at
that point, and so when I saw Man of Steel,
I was like, holy smokes, there's a lot of christ
references in this in this movie, I was like, I
learned about you know, that was Donner's intent, and you
can see it in the Donner cut, but it was.
Donner says, nobody's going to put as many christ references
in as I will in a Superman movie, and ex
Tider says, hold my beer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that was My wife was surprised the first
time we watched she had never seen I mean it
was several years ago now, but she had never seen
the original Richard Donner Superman. And the first time we
sat down and watched it together, is she like part
way through the movie, she goes, so, is Richard Donner
a Christian?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 5: Is he like a pastor or something? Because there's a
lot of stuff in here, like, I mean, that's pretty
much straight out of the Bible. Is that like most
of the stuff Jory Elle is saying, I mean, it
really sounds like it's right out of the Bible. And
I said, it's just that's just how they chose to
do it.
Speaker 4: But the father becomes the son, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And with Man of.
Speaker 3: Steel, well, he's thirty three years old at the point
that he's trying to decide whether to give up and
save humanity or not. He goes to the church and
right behind him as he's talking to the preacher is
Jesus praying in the garden of Cassemone. I was like, Okay,
that's that is that is amazing, and I don't know
how many other people are seeing what I'm seeing right now.
And then of course at what he right after, Jorell
says you can save her, you can save all of them,
and he busts out of the ship and does his
nest plunge in the Jesus on the cross.
Speaker 4: I was just like, wow, let me just make a
comment on the seat real quick. Yeah, we can compare uniforms.
But the original Superman movie, they wanted it to be darker,
but they had to make it louder because they were
losing them in the in the effects, like when they're
flying around at night. I liked how in Man of Steel,
you know they always talked about Superman flying around in
blue underwear. In Man of Steel, well red underwear griefs right,
but actually takes off his battle armor and he's wearing
that blue suit underneath, and so it actually is an undergarment. Yeah,
which I think is really cool. Turns out it is underwear.
The I do like how it looked like a super
small like chain metal, like it was protective.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't mean to steer us off course on the uniform.
Speaker 3: But there's a great interview out there between Christopher Nolan,
you know, who is the producer on Man of Steel,
and Dick Donner, and he said he told Dick Donner, this.
Speaker 4: Is interesting story. Number one.
Speaker 3: Christopher Nolan, of course grew up in England. He got
to go and see this set for Superman wanting when
he was like six years old. And then when he
he pitched his idea to Warner Brothers, he said, I
want to do for Batman what Dick Donner did for
Superman back in seventy eight when he was pitching his
Dark Knight. But they note in that interview, you know
everything's done on green screen now, but back when they
were doing Superman, it was blue screen, right right, Well,
Superman's in a blue suit. How do you make him
not invisible? That was tough, like they had to go
through several different colors to finally find one that was
a blue that you could see that looks right, but
was not one that was going to make Superman invisible.
Speaker 4: Superman one in two. You've got to go back to
the seventies in real These are all practical effects, so
projection and wires and stuff like that. You know that
the cape in Man of Steel is CGI yep.
Speaker 2: I expect better matters from my guests.
Speaker 5: Related to the Superman's suit itself, I was just a
little disappointed Man of Steel that he didn't tear that
emblem off and turn it into a cell phone ass
that he could throw at people.
Speaker 2: I was so looking forward to that, but it just
never happened.
Speaker 4: The cell as the cellfen ass. Okay, so let's get
into that because a lot of people like to point
out that this even the family Guy had a little
thing about this, how it was just a minor inconvenience
to none, didn't really do anything, and it wasn't based
in any comic book. It's just kind of a weird thing.
The selfane is. But that's not the biggest problem from
the Superman one and two movies. Can we get into
the reversal and the superkiss I'm ready to dive into
the Yeah. Okay, so I love Superman one and two.
I am going to defend Superman one and two, but
it has problems. So let's talk about number one, the
ending to Superman one, which was originally supposed to be
ending for Superman two. The time reversal. So they were
filming this movie. There's film two movies at the same time,
when they realized, man, we're running out of money and
we're not sure we're going to have enough money to
finish Superman two, So let's finish Superman one. But they
had this ending that they liked, and so they took
the ending that was supposed to end at Superman two
to put it at the end of Superman one. If
he flies backwards around the Earth, the Earth stops spinning
and actually starts being backwards, which causes time to reverse.
People at the equator are spinning at approximately two thousand
miles per hour, and if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning,
those people would continue to move at two thousand miles
an hour. So the reversing the Earth on its access
would kill tons of people and destroy the Earth. It's
not going to reverse time, but I'm okay with it.
Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I was like, oh, man, wow,
I can't figure out how he manages to go in
a circle around the Earth. About one hundred times in
a few seconds. But he can't get from one side
of the United States to the other in ten minutes.
Speaker 4: That he's got to Yeah, give both of the missiles.
I saw one of those. How it should have ended
things right right now?
Speaker 2: You can't catch both of those.
Speaker 5: Oh wait, now, there was something that I read a
while ago, and it actually made because this scene always
bothered me too, like the whole time reversal stuff. And
I will get into the time reversal piece of it
two because I think that's still a problematic way to
try to solve your problems. But this scene where he flies,
and I too have always kind of assumed, well, wow,
he flew fast enough that it turned the Earth backwards
and it reversed the rotation of the Earth. And then
I read something and the person said, well, what if
he's not actually exerting any kind of force on the Earth.
What if we're just seeing him fly so fast that
he's flying backward in time and we're seeing the Earth
turn backwards, because that's time turning backwards, not that he's
actually turning the Earth backwards. And I'm like, oh, well, okay,
I mean I guess I'm I'm feel a little bit
better about that. Then if we're just watching the Earth
rotate backwards because he's traveling back in time as opposed
to he's actually forcing the Earth to turn backwards, I'm like,
all right, well, I clearly didn't get that as a kid.
Like as a kid, I was like, wow, he can
turn the earth backwards.
Speaker 2: That's pretty rare.
Speaker 5: But I also know that you've got all kinds of
paradoxes when you deal with time travel, and so I'm
looking at that, I'm like, okay now as an adult.
As a kid, I was just like, all right, he
turned back time, we say Lois, everything all good? But
then I'm also thinking about it now as an adult,
I'm like, oh, wait a minute. If he turned back time,
then did he catch the missiles? And where is he
when the what if? Wait a minute now, okay, so
where is current Superman when he's turning back the time?
Did he catch the missiles? And how could he still
get back to where Lois was?
Speaker 2: And was she wait? How is she? Okay? Now? Because
if he.
Speaker 5: Turned back time, the missiles would still have hit because
he didn't go stop the missiles earlier. As an adult,
if somebody were to do that now in a movie,
I'd be like, all right, that's kind of a cheap
way to undo everything.
Speaker 4: It's cheap. But I don't think it's as cheap as
the amnesia kiss.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that yeah, that's it.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk about Okay, the super kiss is an
underrated superpower. All right, I am telling you. If they're
so underrated, it's non existent men in this world. Let's again.
I know every man alive would like the power to
fly and have X rayvation. I want to start answering
that question that way. Now, Hey, if you could have
any superpower, what would it be amnesia kiss? That's what
I'm thinking. If you could have a relationship and then
be able to superkiss your way out of that relationship,
those are pretty good superpower. Yeah, but I told I
told you this yesterday. At the end of the movie
Weird Science, when Lisa causes Gary's dad to forget that
she was over there because she's appting a little bit
too hard. What if you kiss the girl a little
bit too hard? What if he kissed Lois too hard?
And now she has no recollection at who Clark is.
But that's not even the biggest problem with the movies,
very delicate thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when they get into the Fortress of Solitude and
all of a sudden there's eighteen different new powers that
we've never seen before, including stuff coming out of your finger.
Speaker 4: What's to deal with the white beams?
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And how does he how does he push the rays
to the outside that turned you into mortal man? How
does that happen?
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna push real hard on the glass here
and everything will go out and I'll be safe inside. Okay,
So Superman two is easy to pick on, Yes, it's
it's very.
Speaker 4: Easy to pick on. There's a lot of a lot
of lester things that you can just get. Well, that
was really dumb.
Speaker 2: It's also the most fun, right it is.
Speaker 3: Well, but I'm gonna go ahead and pick on Superman
one at this point. I enjoy the camp I enjoy
the humor, but there are some things in Superman one
that I was just like, what just happened?
Speaker 4: Just now?
Speaker 3: When Lex Luthor, in a matter of about a minute
and thirty seconds, not only figures out what kryptonite can do,
but where to get it by going around on his
four shelf bookshelf, it's absurd He's like, oh, well, you
know he said he's from another galaxy. Well, I think
he said that I was feeling that meteorite, which means
that a piece of his planet had to have hit Earth.
Speaker 2: No, no, that's not what happened. It's a really big universe.
Speaker 4: And I'm going to go ahead and scoot on over here.
Pull out a book. Here's a guy with a meteorite.
Here's a picture.
Speaker 2: I'll tear it out.
Speaker 4: You can look at it. We know where he is,
and how do we know that this is from crypto?
Speaker 2: We don't.
Speaker 4: We don't. I'm going to poke the bear and then
the oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: And then somehow he makes it out there, picks up
his steals the because he steals it.
Speaker 4: From a museum. I know that that news report's going on.
Speaker 3: He steals it from the museum, then manages to make
it back in time to set all the stuff up
with the missiles, and then manages to make it out
to the area where the land deals are going on.
Speaker 4: It's just all I'm just like, oh, guys.
Speaker 2: Well, but I mean, he's the greatest criminal mind of
our age.
Speaker 4: Looks luster how about you? The fect that he he
says where does he go Miss test Baker uh north
right north? So he wanders around vaguely until he finds
the Fortress of Solitude, and then when he gets there,
Superman spent at least was it twelve years from time
he was eighteen till the time he was about thirty
learning about Kryptonian history. It's a nice way to dodge Vietnam.
By the way, I'm just gonna hang out the Fortress
the Eyes Disco, but Lex Luthor shows up in about
five minutes. He's got it all figured out right, the
crystals and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: Again, greatest crim the mind of our I think I
think you guys are really struggling with something you don't
need to struggle with. He's the greatest criminal mind of
our age. That's all you need to know. It's like
the I don't know if you've seen lately, I've seen
people put up these gifts or this image on Twitter,
the meme for Batman being the Greatest Detective. Yeah, and
it's from the episode of when he was trying to
figure out the identity of the Joker and he's got
a picture of this like gangster that the face kind
of resembles the Joker. And he's but he's in like
a picture with like twelve other people and Batman in
the animated series. He takes this red marker and he
just draws a red smiley face the guy, and he's like,
that's the joker. I'm like, really that, you know, the
Great Dark Knight Detective. All it took was a red
sharpie for you to figure out who the Joker was.
Speaker 4: But you know what that the super kiss is not
the biggest problem. The turning the time back is not
the biggest problem. Wandering around and finding the fortresssualty is
not the biggest problem. The biggest problem for me is
when Clark trips over the bare head and falls into
the fire and reveals himself to be Superman. First of all,
Superman would kick that bear through the wall. I mean,
the fact that he would trip is ludicrous. And then
I mean he fights fights, fights Lois, and then he
reaches in and grabs the glasses real quick, and you know,
as soon as she confronts him, well you are Superman,
he just.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, yeah, tell him sorry about almost letting you
drowned earlier. I'll just go ahead and pass up now
now that your life's not in danger at all.
Speaker 4: The reveal is ludicrous, but the Donnor reveal was just
as bad. She pulls a gun on him. I'm like,
I feel bad for this guy. She fires at him,
which he then takes his glass off. Hey, I'm Superman,
and he's like, that was a really dangerous and risky
game for you to play. She's like, with blanks blanks, right.
Speaker 3: Which then then you go, Okay, So Superman doesn't feel
bullets at all, gets shot.
Speaker 4: There's no feeling whatsoever. There's got to be at least
a tickle. See if that was you, though, and somebody
pulled a gun on you and fired an actual gun
you're trying to seduce, you'd have to change your shorts.
The seduction would be over at that point. The reveal
is my biggest problem with these two movies.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're moving into judgment stage here, so let's we've
talked about the problems with Superman one and Superman two.
Let's talk about problems with Man of Steel. Okay, Jason,
you have the floor.
Speaker 4: Okay. My biggest problem is when he executes Zod, the
killing of Zod, and I know that they try to
make the case compelling that he's going to X ray
vision these innocent civilians, and that's kind of Clark's last chance.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what he has to do.
Speaker 4: But for me, when I saw this movie in theaters,
I thought, man, I just I don't know if I
want Superman killing I don't know what you think.
Speaker 3: Well, he killed ZD and Superman two as well, and
just to just to draw the distinction here, at least
he struggled with the decision a little bit steel and
when it happened, he cried out in agony, like, I
don't know, I've just killed the last Trypton Kryptonian member
of our Racey.
Speaker 4: Like how you say it, likerypt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't smile and wink at him
before he threw him into the chasm.
Speaker 3: I mean it was in in Superman too, as he's
coming up and he's acting like he doesn't have.
Speaker 4: His powers, and he kneels down.
Speaker 3: He has got the biggest frown I've ever seen in
my life, like I've got to hide what's about to
happen because I'm just gonna nails out so I'm gonna
look super super sad. And then he doesn't just kill him,
he crushes his fan and then throws him, screaming in pain,
down a bottomless pit.
Speaker 4: It's of the two deaths, I think the quick next
step is what I would choose.
Speaker 2: So that was, you know, when Man of Steel came out.
Speaker 5: I'm the person in my circle of friends that whenever
a Star Wars movie comes out, whenever a Superman movie
comes out, people always like, go to me first, what
do you think? Right, you need to know what you thought,
because if you loved it, then that probably means it's
pretty good, and you know all this stuff. And so
I was like the first person people get into debates
with and they were like, oh, man, he just he
let the whole city get trashed, and Superman would never
do that, and you know and all that stuff. He's like, oh,
super he snapped his neck. He'd never you know, Superman
would never do that. I'm like, uh, if you have
read a Superman story, like there's times all the time
where somebody dies or or something happens like that, and
the exact same thing. When that came up, and people
are like, well, he is Superman would never snap his
neck like that, I said, well, have you watched Superman two,
because not only does he I mean, these people are powerless,
Like he has reversed this process, so these are It's
not like he's fighting a super villain in Superman two.
He's now fighting Disco Zod and Ursa and Non and
he's just letting them die. And I'm like that to
me now that I think about that as an adult.
As a kid, I was like, yeah, you go, Superman,
crush his hand, you do all this stuff, you know,
and wrong again Zod. And as a kid, I was
like this, it's awesome.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 5: He's finally getting back of these people. And I look
at that now and I go, that's really sadistic, Like
he could have if the guy can go catch a missile,
you know, if he can fly halfway across the United
States and catch a missile and then possibly fly back
and get the second one and be like, hey, I
got both of them, then I have a feeling that
super Superman could probably zip the what was it, fifteen
feet to go like, you know, catch Non before he
falls into the chasm. He could then zip the fifteen
feet to go catch Ursa. He could even let Lois
you know, do her thing and punch Ursa. Right, I'm
fine with that. But then he could go catch her
so she doesn't die and he doesn't have to throw
Zod into the thing and kill him. These are he's
killing humans. So that to me now as an adult
and kind of comparing those situations, that's way more problematic
for me when I actually think about how those villains
were done way with in that movie and knowing the
history of the comics, actually killing Zod in the comics
was something that defined Superman for many, many, many years.
There were moments in the Superman comics for the next
after two to three decades after the mid eighties, where
Superman would always bring that up. He's like, well, the
reason I don't kill is because I did kill Zod.
I executed Zod and his generals, and it tore me
up and it made me value life once I realized
what I had done, and there's always got to be
a better way. So that to me was that kind
of moment is what makes him, you know, it's it's
what's building that character, it's what makes him the Superman
that he will later become. And when that happened in
Man of Steel, I didn't have a problem with it
because I looked at that as You've got Superman who's
been I mean he's been raised on Earth. He's a civilian,
he's been raised on Earth, and he's fighting someone that
has the exact same powers he does with military training,
you know probably you know, self defense, military type training,
and so he's not going to have the same tactical knowledge,
the same kind of fighting skill, you know that. And
he's he's doing what he can. Like this is still
a very young super he's only been Superman for what
a day, maybe right, a couple of days, And so
I'm looking at that and I'm going, well, putting myself
in that shoes, Well, well, what I do in that situation?
If I saw a family about to get killed, this
guy who has basically said, you've wiped out all the
rest of my people, I have nothing left. I will
kill every person on this earth to get back at you.
So he said, I'm gonna murder everyone. I'm just letting
you know. I'm gonna murder everyone. And I look at that,
and I go put in that situation, I mean, I
would never kill anyone me personally, and like, no, I
would never kill anyone. But if you put me in
that situation, would I struggle with it, and if push
came to shove, would I snap the guy's neck to
save a group of other people, a family, and possibly
the rest of the earth.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Probably, So that scene, it doesn't bother me. And what
bothers me more, and this is not necessarily the scope
of our discussion, but what bothers me more is that
we didn't get a Man of Steel two to be
able to explore that further. But no, that scene doesn't
bother me because I compare that now with Superman two
and I think, well, actually that seems more callous and
a little bit more sociopathic than the event some Man Steel.
Speaker 4: You know, we we were talking about this. This has
been a few weeks ago. It had never even occurred
to me that Superman killed all three of those villains
and Superman two because I'm still looking at it through
a child's eyes. Apparently there's rumors of some cut out
there that shows that these criminals were arrested and taken
to jail. Yeah, I think that didn't you You did
some research on that, Like there was I saw it
that where they he arrested Lex Luthor. Right, the Arctic
police come in and arrest Lex Luthor. The Arctic Arctic
Police who happened to also get access to Fortress so Solitude.
I think Lewis called nine one one.
Speaker 5: In the in the there's a super phone they have.
They have a little it's it's under a glass jar.
It's like what used to have you just you pick
up the glass jar. It's like a it's like a
you know, Kryptonian crystal jar.
Speaker 2: You make the phone.
Speaker 4: It's one of the things that he did in the
molecule chambers, called nine.
Speaker 2: To one one.
Speaker 3: But apparently the rumor that the three Kryptonian villains get
arrested and put in human jail is just that, it's
just a rumor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, but I will say this when we talked
about this, so and I'm moving in towards my final
judgment here, but after rewatching these Man of Steel is
better than I remember it being initially. Superman two is
worse than I remember it being originally. But at the
time Superman two did a great job of manipulating my
feelings as a little boy. Yeah, and I was telling
indeed that when he goes into the molecule chamber and
there's red on the outside rather than the inside, I
didn't catch that when I saw it in the theater,
and so when he starts crushing his hand, I'm like, wait,
what what And then I'm like yes, So that scene
charged me up. When los Lane punches out Versa that
I got fired up about that.
Speaker 2: I was so excited.
Speaker 3: We didn't touch on this, but this is a major
factor in what's going on in those scenes and how
you feel emotionally at the time of the death of
Zod and his hinchment with Superman.
Speaker 4: You've got John Williams.
Speaker 3: Score, which I mean, arguably the best superhero score in
all of history, right, And I will tell you that.
You know, I heard about Dick Donner coming in and
hearing this for the first time, and he said something
that that that gave me vindication because I will sing
Superman to my kids.
Speaker 4: Whenever we're putting it on in the car and I
go Superman, I mean, I love it.
Speaker 3: And but apparently that was exactly Dick Donner's reaction when
he heard William's theme for Superman was you are saying
it with the music, and it's fantastic. When he crushes
his hand, you get that score coming in with d
and you're like, yes, it's a victory. We've got the
victory theme, but when he's having to decide to kill Zod,
it's agonizing.
Speaker 4: You've got You've got.
Speaker 3: Zimmer's intense, emotional, non automatic music just pulling at you,
and it's Yeah, it totally changes your perspective to where
you think, oh, gosh, this is horrible, this is a
horrible Superman's killing somebody. Well that's what they want you
to think, because it is horrible. It's just that in
Superman they made it funny and justified.
Speaker 4: And John I thought for a second the d was
going to sing can you read my line?
Speaker 2: Yes? Definitely the most awkward moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, horrible reading that Margaret Kidder did.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: In terms of the music, I mean that since since
we're talking music, I have a really hard time with
this one. As I was as I was doing my
back and forth of all right, well, okay, you get
John Williams on Zimmer, let's go back and forth with it.
And then who did they replace John Williams with for
to ken Thorn? Yeah, And you know, I and I
spent the last few days I had my Spotify playlist
up and I just put I put all the soundtracks
together and I was like, I'm just gonna listen to this,
back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and
you know what, the John Williams you can't argue with that.
It's it's iconic, it is it is Superman. It's I mean,
that's been for ever since nineteen seventy eight Hans Zimmer score.
Speaker 2: Nobody's gonna do that.
Speaker 5: When my son was really really little, still in his
car seat, I'd put on like the planet Krypton.
Speaker 2: Theme from Superman.
Speaker 5: And when it would when it would get to the
point where it just crescendoed, he'd like, I'm not even
gonna do it, right, but he'd like throw both arms
up in the air, back in his car seat, and
I was like, okay, I've raised you well. I really
could just stop now because you know this has been successful.
But you know you've got that, You've got the John Williams,
you know, had that very kind of synthesizer, creepy, you know,
the almost like the little the Kryptonian zod theme that
got continued on through Superman to I will say though,
that overall, as an entire movie, as an entire film,
I think that the Hans Zimmer score did a little
bit better job for me of filling in the filling
in the atmosphere of that movie. Like if I look
at the if I look at the original Superman and
Superman to score, I can probably in my mind, I
can probably pick out, oh yeah, there's like three pieces
of music that I can remember, right, And that's if
I ignore the can you read my mind part, which
I'm constantly trying to do. I wish, I wish there
was some kind of a super kiss that could get
that one out of my mind. But then I think
about the Hans Zimmer score and I'm like, Okay, is
there anything in there that's as memorable as the Planet
Krypton theme as the John Williams Superman theme. No, but
in the movie as a whole overall, that that fills
that movie so much better than the John Williams score does.
Speaker 3: They did some neat things with Hans Zimmer's score musically,
like he Superman, being as an American as he is,
he wanted to take something that was a uniquely American instrument,
which is the pedal steel guitar, which you typically hear
in like bluegrass and country music. But he changed it
in such a way that it becomes the string section,
so you've got a really unique sound of those strings
that you can recognize from from the Man.
Speaker 4: Of Steel score. And then on those intense scenes, it's
all drums that and for that one we get like
nine different drums, lie twelve of the world's greatest drummers, yeah,
including Sheila e and Jason Bonham.
Speaker 3: And so he puts them in a he puts them
in a circle, puts the microphone in the middle of
the circle, and to give the effect of being surrounded
by these intense primal drums.
Speaker 4: All right, So final judgment, I'm with Superman. I wanted
too over Man of Steel.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I got to say that after watching these movies again,
I had the same reaction you did. I liked Man
of Steel better than I did at the beginning, and
I loved.
Speaker 4: It at the beginning.
Speaker 3: I gotta say Man of Steel is a better movie.
It's plot structure is better, the character development is better.
The setting for Smallville, the setting for Krypton, the struggle
that Clark has are all better. And so as much
as it pains me as much of a fan of
the original movies as I am and was, Man of
Steel is a better movie. Now I'll say this, Superman
will always be Christopher Reeve to me, if you say Superman,
that's the first thing that I want to think of.
And he brought something that the character that Henry Cavill did,
and Henry Cavill did a great job, and especially the
moment that he's standing watching his father about to die,
that is an emotionally moving moment for me and a
fantastic performance. I had the same feeling I felt whenever
Superman Christopher Reeve finds Lois dead and cries out.
Speaker 4: Both of those were emotionally impactful performances.
Speaker 3: But whereas Christopher Reeve will always be Superman in my mind,
I've got to say Man of Steel's better movie.
Speaker 4: John, Yeah, all right, I got a little bit of truth.
Speaker 5: I almost wanted to pull in Eric Cartman that I
hate you guys so much. Jason, you kind of you
reference or one of you guys referenced early on that
in in my episodes I did where I talked about
like the history of Superman and I did my ranking
of it. I think I said that Superman one was
number one for me, Man of Steel was number two,
and Superman two was number three, and so having rewatched
these movies, having talked it out with you guys here,
having taking copious notes, you know, and scared my family
because they thought I was turning into a serial killer
with like all these composition notebooks full of tiny handwriting.
I think I've come out the other side of this
with James. I think I'm very much on the same.
Speaker 2: Page you are.
Speaker 5: That nothing will ever replace Superman one and two for me,
I mean, far and above, Christopher Reeve will always I
always look at him and think Superman. Nothing can ever
replace the times that I had, you know, watching these
movies with my dad, with my family, and just the
memories that are attached with those. I love Superman one,
I love Superman two. But that being said, some of
the things that we've said here too, I think that
Man of Steel, and I know that this is a
this is an unpopular opinion because a lot of people
don't like Man of Steel. Man of Steel has always
been my favorite of the more recent DC movies, even
including I think the Batman movies, the Christopher Nolan Batman movies.
Speaker 2: I Man of.
Speaker 5: Steel is my favorite. I guess you wouldn't even call
those DCEU because that was we weren't there yet. But
it's my favorite DC movie of the last, you know,
probably a couple of decades. And I think for some
of the very similar reasons that it's just I get
more backstory, I get more emotional involvement in the character
of Clark, and the character of Superman, the character of Lois,
the even the character of Zod. I have more of
a emotional, visceral reaction to what's going on in this movie.
I care more about these characters. Not that I didn't
care about them when I was a kid watching the
other ones, but it was very much. Sometimes it's the
difference between Sometimes people that are like Marvel fans of
DC fans will.
Speaker 2: Make this distinction.
Speaker 5: Marvel will say, well, our stuff is grounded in reality.
We have our characters in Boston and New York and
San Diego, whereas you guys made up towns like Gotham
and Metropolis, and like, we're you know, our characters, we
have a scientific reason why they have powers and and
you know, so there's a difference between like your grounded
explanation for superheroes and more of like your godlike legends.
And I think that Superman and Superman two fall into
that very comic book, eccentric, godlike legend of Superman. And
there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I absolutely love
that about those movies. But I think for someone who
wants to dig into the story and understand why these
characters are doing what they're doing, why does he become
the Superman that we all know and love, Why does
he fall in love with Lois? Who are the parents
that raised him to think this way and to be
this way? Who's the villain that just I mean almost
perfectly matches with what he's struggling with at the time
in this movie and how he has to I mean,
like we said, he is agonized when he kills Zod
at the end, because all he's ever wanted is to belong.
All he's ever wanted is to fit in. He's finally
found his people, and he has had to kill the
last of his other than himself, he's had to kill
the last of his people, so he's had to completely
destroy the one thing that he has wanted his entire
life is just to fit in. And so I think
for those reasons, I kind of I have to go
man of Steel in this case, you know, But it's
really it's really a struggle to say that, because it's
just I love the other Superman movies so much, and
you know, the next time I watch him, it might
be like I might watch Superman again and be like,
oh no, you know what, actually original Superman is number
one again. You know, to me, I get more emotional
involvement in Man of Steel. We get to see him
develop as a kid. We get to see him develop
as a hero. That's one of the things, even as
a kid, one of the things that I didn't I
understood the reason for it, you know, in trying to
fit in like the biblical imagery that you would have
a stretch of time where well, we don't know what
happened to Clark in this stretch of time, you know,
from eighteen to thirty. We don't know, Like he just
disappeared for an amount of time and then he came
back and started his for lack of a better term,
started his ministry of being Superman. And you know, that's fine,
and that's fine for that movie, but I'll take another
line for the Bible. That was fine when I was
a child, and now that I'm older, I put away
a childish things and I want more explanation. I want
more of that story. I want to know my care
and I want to make that connection with them. I
want to see a Lois that my Superman would fall
in love with, that he would look at her and say,
this is the humanity that I'm here to say, I will.
I wanted to before we ended, I did want to
pull these out that I love. This is this is
the part I love about both of these movies. Is
just the kind of ideal that this is trying to
build up. And I love both of these speeches from Joel,
and so I didn't want to, you know, skip being
able to read these or take a look at these.
And in his speech and the Fortress of Solitude, and
he says, you know, live as one of them, Kellel.
Discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always
hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage.
They can be a great people, Kelll, if they wish
to be. They only lack the light to show the way.
For this reason, above all their capacity for good, I
have sent them.
Speaker 2: You my only son.
Speaker 5: And then I also wrote down the one from Man
of Steel, and I just I love both of these,
you know, Jorel says, you will give the people of
Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you,
they will stumble, they will fall, but in time they
will join you in the sun. Cal in time you
will help them accomplish wonders. And I think that's part
of where I hit that difference is I love the
speech by Marlon Brando Jorel, but I will say I
teared up in the theater when I listen to Russell
Crowe deliver that speech. They will race behind you, they
will stumble, they will fall, but in time they will
join you in the sun. And it actually comes from
a Superman comic where it's a story in which Superman
his life is coming to an end. He's actually going
to send himself into the sun and that's going to
be his final resting place. And so Joel's speech, and
that's actually where a Man of Steel took it from
his speech in that one is your work is done.
You have shown them the face of the man of tomorrow.
You've given them an ideal to aspire to, embodied their
highest aspirations. They will race and stumble and fall and
crawl and curse, and finally they will join you. In
the sun cal el in time, you will no longer
be alone. And I think that that like bringing that
piece into Man of Steel, and just the way that
speech is delivered and what that speech says like it's
it makes me even now, like makes me emotional to
think about that. You know, the father speaking that to
his son, and that's that emotional piece. I get that
emotional piece every time I watch a Man of Steel.
I love Superman one and two, but I don't get
the emotional connection to those. So I think for that reason,
and just because of some of the other things we've
said about how I think there's just more, there's more
meat to Man of Steel.
Speaker 2: I got to go Man of Steel.
Speaker 4: The speech by Russell Crowe.
Speaker 3: They used it for the trailer, and I can remember
really distinctly when the trailers came out for Man of
Steel before the movie came out, because the visual that
you had and both trailers were the same, but in
one you had that speech from Darrell and then the
other one you have an admonishing speech from Jonathan Kent.
Speaker 7: You have to decide what kind of man you want
or grew up to be. Whoever that man is good
character or bad it's going to change the world.
Speaker 3: I can remember seeing those commercials and it is the
scene from the movie where they're looking at nine year
old Clark Kent and he's playing around in the yard
and he's got a cape on and he you know,
you see him stand up tall, put his chest out,
put his hands on his hips in the.
Speaker 4: Iconic Superman pose.
Speaker 3: And I remember watching the first time, and I think
my wife was next to me and I said, even Superman.
Speaker 4: Wanted to be Superman when he was his boy. And
that's the way it is. I think for all all.
Speaker 8: Young men, it's that that ideal to strive for. We
are always striving to be Superman. Okay, well I think
that does it for this episode or all likelihood episodes.
Speaker 2: John.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate you coming out and being with us
for all of these episodes. It's been great fun to
have you and so inspiring to hear your input on
these great, great stuff.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you guys for having me out. I
can't wait to I mean, obviously when this comes up
in my feed, like I said, I jump to you
guys first. I like block all of the podcasts. Got
to find out what they're going to argue about this time,
so I'll be looking forward to this one too.
Speaker 4: Oh thanks man, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and to all our listeners, please, if you haven't already,
go check out thirty something movie podcast. You can find
them on Twitter at thirty Podcasts on Twitter. And is
it the same on Facebook, John.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's pretty much if you do three zero and podcast, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.
You know, there's probably something that's come out in the
next three days that I'll sign up for. But yeah,
thirty podcasts wherever.
Speaker 4: Thank you all again.
Speaker 3: We're overwhelmed by the support that we've been getting for
our podcast. We really love that you love we're doing
and we're just going to keep on going as long
as you're listening.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 4: We'd love to have a five star review, five star
review for thirty seven podcast. We'll give you a big
old fat superkiss.
Speaker 5: We won't even give you amnesia, and then here and
you know what, and once we give you that supercass,
you'll forget that you left a five star reduce, so
then you can go leave another one.
Speaker 3: All music images and movie clips are used for the
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Use agreement under the US copyright law.
Speaker 4: Come here and kiss your mom