Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know,
Speaker 1: I have always been a big dreamer. And when I
Speaker 1: say big dreamer, I don't just mean having goals in
Speaker 1: my life, because I've been a big dreamer that way too.
Speaker 1: But I'm the kind of person who remembers her dreams
Speaker 1: almost every morning, and before I go back to sleep
Speaker 1: the next night, I have to pick up that thread.
Speaker 1: I to like continue the story, and then I go
Speaker 1: right back into my dream life. You know, there are
Speaker 1: so many theories about why we dream, what dreams mean,
Speaker 1: and actually believe it or not. There's a kind of
Speaker 1: dreaming that's now used to treat some mental illnesses like
Speaker 1: depression or fears like post.
Speaker 2: Traumatic stress disorder.
Speaker 1: So I want to bring in an expert, Michael Riduga,
Speaker 1: who's CEO of a company called rem Space and author
Speaker 1: of rem M.
Speaker 2: You know what that means, Rapid eye movement.
Speaker 1: Psychology, and he has conducted research on something called lucid dreaming. Michael,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Hid I think for anyviceing me.
Speaker 1: So first of all, can we talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the theories out there of why people dream. I
Speaker 1: know Sigmund Freud said it was the royal road to
Speaker 1: the unconscious, and it was unconscious memories trying to find
Speaker 1: their way through using metaphors and symbols. What do you
Speaker 1: think our purpose of dreaming is.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that we need dreams on purpose and
Speaker 3: for our brain. It is a way how we can
Speaker 3: pause this information, how we can prepare ourselves subconsciously for
Speaker 3: events in physical life. So it's like, you know, there
Speaker 3: are many startups in Silicon Valley which are specialized on
Speaker 3: developing robots and they trace them in a virtual reality,
Speaker 3: and our dreams work in a similar way subconsciously betrain
Speaker 3: ourselves and prepare ourselves for challenges of real life.
Speaker 1: So you think dreams are training our brain for it's
Speaker 1: almost our own version of virtual reality, so that it's
Speaker 1: preparing us for life stressors that might be coming ahead.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's not to be meted by this application, but
Speaker 3: mostly I'm pretty sure that it's like an additional space
Speaker 3: for our brain to patray us stop, to polish different skills,
Speaker 3: to prepare us for different challenges and so on. I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure it works.
Speaker 1: This way, And some scientists say that it's sort of
Speaker 1: cleaning our brain out from the debris of the day.
Speaker 1: And when we dream about certain things that you know,
Speaker 1: feelings and leftover residue of thought and feelings from the day,
Speaker 1: we've just had another purpose.
Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely yes, And our doings help
Speaker 3: us to refine information, to process it, living only what
Speaker 3: we really need for our life.
Speaker 1: And I also want to be clear to our audience
Speaker 1: that there is no research that supports any idea that
Speaker 1: if you dream about a specific thing it means this.
Speaker 1: The truth is what we dream about, what our brains,
Speaker 1: our individual minds choose as metaphors and symbols are unique
Speaker 1: to us. So you can't say, well, if you dream
Speaker 1: about snakes, it means a bad days ahead, or if
Speaker 1: you dream about a hair brush, it means you know,
Speaker 1: because it's different for everybody, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, but sometimes it mean you really work.
Speaker 3: For example, if the theme that snakes are bad and
Speaker 3: your subconsciousness somehow knows that something is coming, but your
Speaker 3: consciousness is not aware about it, your dreams may somehow
Speaker 3: show it and me send signals to you. But of
Speaker 3: course there's no proofs that it is possible. But you know,
Speaker 3: when you talk to people, they tell stories like this
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 1: So you think dreams can be prophetic. They can predict
Speaker 1: the future a bit.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit sometimes, and I don't say that
Speaker 3: you can control it and you can be like a
Speaker 3: psychic in the future from your dreams, but sometimes, definitely
Speaker 3: it works. And I'm pretty sure that maybe fifty percent
Speaker 3: of people have experienced it at least once in their life.
Speaker 1: Well, you're talking to somebody who's experienced it a lot,
Speaker 1: and I was like, am I crazy? But I've actually
Speaker 1: dreamed things and then they happen. Then it's usually something
Speaker 1: not important, and it happens like the next day, like
Speaker 1: kind of a deja vub. Clearly I remember the dream too,
Speaker 1: so it's not like that, just that feeling of deja vus.
Speaker 1: But like, wait, I just dreamed this last night. I
Speaker 1: can't believe it's happening. All right, let us talk to
Speaker 1: the about the area of interest for you and your company,
Speaker 1: which is lucid dreaming dreaming. How would you just define
Speaker 1: lucid dreaming?
Speaker 3: Okay, we should do. Dreams are situations when we have
Speaker 3: consciousness during or ram sleep. Well, usually we see balbi dreams.
Speaker 3: We experience baby dreams during ram sleep, but sometimes we
Speaker 3: have consciousness and as a result, we experience of this
Speaker 3: phenomenon loci enjoyment.
Speaker 1: I like to explain to my students, my health psychology students,
Speaker 1: that it's like you know when you're half asleep and
Speaker 1: half awake and you can still grab parts of the
Speaker 1: dream and think about it, but then you know you're
Speaker 1: waking up at the same time.
Speaker 2: That's that's what lucid dreaming is.
Speaker 3: Right, no disagree?
Speaker 2: What would you say it is? How would someone get
Speaker 2: into a state of lucid dreaming?
Speaker 3: Now? It is the biggest difference between common dreams and
Speaker 3: mus dreams is in your perception, because when you have
Speaker 3: consciousness durn remsally everything perceives as reality. Because when people
Speaker 3: talk about lucy dreams or think about them, they just
Speaker 3: imagine common dreams, which sometimes very beaury, senseless and not vivid,
Speaker 3: and they think, okay, what's what's the point of having
Speaker 3: a control over it? But in reality these experiences are
Speaker 3: so vivious that there often people don't see the difference
Speaker 3: between reality and lucidreams. That's the reason for all those
Speaker 3: supernatural stories about alien abductions, religious visions up on awakening
Speaker 3: and so on and so on.
Speaker 1: Because you think these people are actually experiencing a lucid dream.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because but everything looks so real that they
Speaker 3: cannot believe that it is a dream. They think that
Speaker 3: salesthing happens for you. So it proves how bigious sensations
Speaker 3: during lucy dreaming. It is just you don't see the
Speaker 3: difference between physical world and these lusage worlds during REM sleep.
Speaker 2: Okay, when we come back, we have to go for
Speaker 2: a break.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about how people can learn to
Speaker 1: practice lucid dreaming and its applications for mental health. So
Speaker 1: stay with us. My guest is Michael Riduga, CEO of
Speaker 1: REM Space and author of REM Psychology. He's conducted research
Speaker 1: on lucid dreaming that has actually helped people lower fears
Speaker 1: and anxiety and relief symptoms of depression. We'll talk more
Speaker 1: about this when we come back. My guest is Michael Raduga,
Speaker 1: CEO of REM Space and author of REM Psychology. Our
Speaker 1: topic is lucid dreaming. Okay, Michael, can anybody learn to
Speaker 1: experience lucid dreaming?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm positive. And you know, it
Speaker 3: seems that you could be a very lucid dreamer because
Speaker 3: you see a lot of dreams and it's a fust
Speaker 3: sign of good chances to learn this phenomenon.
Speaker 1: So people like me who remember their dreams easily have
Speaker 1: a much easier time. Okay, so what do I do?
Speaker 1: Tell me how to get into a lucid dream.
Speaker 3: So, first of all, you should understand that your intention
Speaker 3: is the key factor here. It means that when you
Speaker 3: fall asleep, you should think about some impressive, some exciting
Speaker 3: goals which you would like to achieve in a lucid dream,
Speaker 3: for example, travel somewhere or seeing somebody for example your relative, friend, partner,
Speaker 3: or diseased relatives, or some fantasies, and you think about it,
Speaker 3: you think about desire to achieve it, and you follow
Speaker 3: asleep with this intention, and there's a high chance that
Speaker 3: your intention will be transformed into consciousness while dreaming or
Speaker 3: when you wake up. Every time, when you wake up,
Speaker 3: during the first seconds up and awakening, you may try
Speaker 3: to limitate, You may try to roll out from your
Speaker 3: body without using your muscles. And the reason is that
Speaker 3: actually it is much easier to induce lucy dreams upon
Speaker 3: waking up. On awakening because very often when we wake
Speaker 3: wake up, during the first minutes, we are still actually
Speaker 3: our brain is still asleep. So it means that during
Speaker 3: the first few seconds of awakening you can induce lucid
Speaker 3: dreams easily by just trying to levitate, getting up or
Speaker 3: rolling out of your body without using muscles.
Speaker 1: So you're using the word induce a lucid dream. So
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, I put this intention as I'm
Speaker 1: falling asleep, I tell myself over and over, this is
Speaker 1: the thing I want to feel or experience or see.
Speaker 1: And then as I'm waking up, I do something with
Speaker 1: my thoughts.
Speaker 2: What do I do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Once again, when you wake up,
Speaker 3: it's highly possible that your brain is still in this
Speaker 3: ram sleep and it means that any any of your
Speaker 3: actions upon waken and they leads to reinducing of sleep,
Speaker 3: but with consciousness. So you wake up and during the
Speaker 3: first seconds, the first seconds, try to live itate. Let's
Speaker 3: literally I know that.
Speaker 1: You levitate, like literally rise out of my body.
Speaker 3: Literally, let's literally try to live itate or try to
Speaker 3: roll out of try try to roll out from your body,
Speaker 3: or try to get talked without using muscles. It sounds ridiculous,
Speaker 3: I know. But once again, when you wake up during
Speaker 3: the first seconds, it's highly possible that your brain is
Speaker 3: still asleep despite your consciousness.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's assume I've been able to roll out
Speaker 1: of bed without moving a muscle and there was levitate,
Speaker 1: and now do I look down at myself? What do
Speaker 1: I try to do with this intention that I implanted
Speaker 1: the night before?
Speaker 3: Then, for example, you try it five times, and out
Speaker 3: of those five attempts, one or two times you will
Speaker 3: actually libtate or roll out of your body, and you
Speaker 3: will find yourself in a dream. It will look like
Speaker 3: out of body experience, but in reality it's your dream world.
Speaker 3: And starting from this position, this moment, you can realize
Speaker 3: any of your goals. So just make as many attempts
Speaker 3: as possible, and few of them will be effective.
Speaker 1: Now, according to your research, this using this lucid dreaming
Speaker 1: technique has been used to treat post traumatic stress disorder
Speaker 1: and depression. How how does it work to treat fears
Speaker 1: and sadness?
Speaker 3: Once again, it is all about vividness of this experience,
Speaker 3: because your brain, in your subconsciousness, perceives these dreams as reality,
Speaker 3: meaning that for example, if you have some psychological issues,
Speaker 3: instead of thinking about them, instead of imagining some solutions,
Speaker 3: you can relieve different situations. And when we talk about
Speaker 3: application of recent dreaming, the highest number of scientific research
Speaker 3: about rich dreaming application is about psychology. It's depression, it's nightmares,
Speaker 3: phobeous complexes, post traumatic syndrome, and so on.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting when I hear you explaining this.
Speaker 1: So I have to tell you a story. Right when
Speaker 1: I was like about twelve years old, we moved to
Speaker 1: a neighborhood where there was a community swimming.
Speaker 2: Pool with a lifeguard.
Speaker 1: You were not allowed to be there without a parent
Speaker 1: unless you could in front of the lifeguard swim two
Speaker 1: lengths of the pool back and forth. I was terrified.
Speaker 1: I was so afraid of drowning. I'd had a couple
Speaker 1: near drowning experiences as a child. I was terrified. It
Speaker 1: wasn't about my ability to be strong enough for the stroke.
Speaker 1: I was just so afraid to swim sinse a length.
Speaker 1: And one night I went to sleep and I told myself,
Speaker 1: I'm going to swim. I am going to swim. I
Speaker 1: am going to swim those two links. And when I
Speaker 1: woke up in the morning, I literally saw myself while
Speaker 1: I was in bed swimming. Later in the day, I
Speaker 1: kind of forgot about that dream. I went to the pool,
Speaker 1: I said the lifeguard, I'm ready. I'm going to do
Speaker 1: those two laps. I swam twenty laps in front of him,
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 2: Know what you're talking about. It works.
Speaker 3: It's a very good example. So it could be not
Speaker 3: only a daring advanced to each dreamer, but also a swimmer.
Speaker 1: I'm not a great swimmer now, but I got to
Speaker 1: go to the pool without my parents and that's what mattered.
Speaker 1: How do people, Michael Raduga, how do people find out
Speaker 1: more about remspace and your book REM Psychology.
Speaker 3: You just can find it's on Amazon or in Psychology
Speaker 3: and it's a it's a the only book about using
Speaker 3: each Durius for solving different psychological issues.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait to read it. The book is
Speaker 1: REM Psychology. CEO of Remspace, Michael Riduga, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for.
Speaker 2: Joining us today.
Speaker 3: Thank you great, and that brings.
Speaker 1: The Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close. It's always
Speaker 1: my pleasure to be with you every Sunday from seven
Speaker 1: to nine pm. If you missed any part of the show,
Speaker 1: you can always find it later on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: You were listening to The Doctor Wendy Wall Show on
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty