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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I have always been a big dreamer. And when I

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<v Speaker 1>say big dreamer, I don't just mean having goals in

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<v Speaker 1>my life, because I've been a big dreamer that way too.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm the kind of person who remembers her dreams

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<v Speaker 1>almost every morning, and before I go back to sleep

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<v Speaker 1>the next night, I have to pick up that thread.

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<v Speaker 1>I to like continue the story, and then I go

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<v Speaker 1>right back into my dream life. You know, there are

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<v Speaker 1>so many theories about why we dream, what dreams mean,

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<v Speaker 1>and actually believe it or not. There's a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>dreaming that's now used to treat some mental illnesses like

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<v Speaker 1>depression or fears like post.

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<v Speaker 2>Traumatic stress disorder.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to bring in an expert, Michael Riduga,

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<v Speaker 1>who's CEO of a company called rem Space and author

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<v Speaker 1>of rem M.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what that means, Rapid eye movement.

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<v Speaker 1>Psychology, and he has conducted research on something called lucid dreaming. Michael,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Hid I think for anyviceing me.

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<v Speaker 1>So first of all, can we talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the theories out there of why people dream. I

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<v Speaker 1>know Sigmund Freud said it was the royal road to

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<v Speaker 1>the unconscious, and it was unconscious memories trying to find

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<v Speaker 1>their way through using metaphors and symbols. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>think our purpose of dreaming is.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty sure that we need dreams on purpose and

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<v Speaker 3>for our brain. It is a way how we can

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<v Speaker 3>pause this information, how we can prepare ourselves subconsciously for

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<v Speaker 3>events in physical life. So it's like, you know, there

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<v Speaker 3>are many startups in Silicon Valley which are specialized on

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<v Speaker 3>developing robots and they trace them in a virtual reality,

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<v Speaker 3>and our dreams work in a similar way subconsciously betrain

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<v Speaker 3>ourselves and prepare ourselves for challenges of real life.

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<v Speaker 1>So you think dreams are training our brain for it's

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<v Speaker 1>almost our own version of virtual reality, so that it's

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<v Speaker 1>preparing us for life stressors that might be coming ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's not to be meted by this application, but

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<v Speaker 3>mostly I'm pretty sure that it's like an additional space

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<v Speaker 3>for our brain to patray us stop, to polish different skills,

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<v Speaker 3>to prepare us for different challenges and so on. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>pretty sure it works.

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<v Speaker 1>This way, And some scientists say that it's sort of

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<v Speaker 1>cleaning our brain out from the debris of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>And when we dream about certain things that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>feelings and leftover residue of thought and feelings from the day,

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<v Speaker 1>we've just had another purpose.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely yes, And our doings help

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<v Speaker 3>us to refine information, to process it, living only what

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<v Speaker 3>we really need for our life.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also want to be clear to our audience

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<v Speaker 1>that there is no research that supports any idea that

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<v Speaker 1>if you dream about a specific thing it means this.

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<v Speaker 1>The truth is what we dream about, what our brains,

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<v Speaker 1>our individual minds choose as metaphors and symbols are unique

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<v Speaker 1>to us. So you can't say, well, if you dream

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<v Speaker 1>about snakes, it means a bad days ahead, or if

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<v Speaker 1>you dream about a hair brush, it means you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's different for everybody, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right, but sometimes it mean you really work.

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<v Speaker 3>For example, if the theme that snakes are bad and

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<v Speaker 3>your subconsciousness somehow knows that something is coming, but your

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<v Speaker 3>consciousness is not aware about it, your dreams may somehow

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<v Speaker 3>show it and me send signals to you. But of

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<v Speaker 3>course there's no proofs that it is possible. But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>when you talk to people, they tell stories like this

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<v Speaker 3>all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>So you think dreams can be prophetic. They can predict

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<v Speaker 1>the future a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a little bit sometimes, and I don't say that

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<v Speaker 3>you can control it and you can be like a

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<v Speaker 3>psychic in the future from your dreams, but sometimes, definitely

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<v Speaker 3>it works. And I'm pretty sure that maybe fifty percent

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<v Speaker 3>of people have experienced it at least once in their life.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're talking to somebody who's experienced it a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, am I crazy? But I've actually

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<v Speaker 1>dreamed things and then they happen. Then it's usually something

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<v Speaker 1>not important, and it happens like the next day, like

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a deja vub. Clearly I remember the dream too,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's not like that, just that feeling of deja vus.

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<v Speaker 1>But like, wait, I just dreamed this last night. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't believe it's happening. All right, let us talk to

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<v Speaker 1>the about the area of interest for you and your company,

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<v Speaker 1>which is lucid dreaming dreaming. How would you just define

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<v Speaker 1>lucid dreaming?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, we should do. Dreams are situations when we have

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<v Speaker 3>consciousness during or ram sleep. Well, usually we see balbi dreams.

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<v Speaker 3>We experience baby dreams during ram sleep, but sometimes we

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<v Speaker 3>have consciousness and as a result, we experience of this

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<v Speaker 3>phenomenon loci enjoyment.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to explain to my students, my health psychology students,

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<v Speaker 1>that it's like you know when you're half asleep and

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<v Speaker 1>half awake and you can still grab parts of the

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<v Speaker 1>dream and think about it, but then you know you're

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<v Speaker 1>waking up at the same time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's what lucid dreaming is.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, no disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>What would you say it is? How would someone get

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<v Speaker 2>into a state of lucid dreaming?

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<v Speaker 3>Now? It is the biggest difference between common dreams and

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<v Speaker 3>mus dreams is in your perception, because when you have

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<v Speaker 3>consciousness durn remsally everything perceives as reality. Because when people

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<v Speaker 3>talk about lucy dreams or think about them, they just

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<v Speaker 3>imagine common dreams, which sometimes very beaury, senseless and not vivid,

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<v Speaker 3>and they think, okay, what's what's the point of having

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<v Speaker 3>a control over it? But in reality these experiences are

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<v Speaker 3>so vivious that there often people don't see the difference

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<v Speaker 3>between reality and lucidreams. That's the reason for all those

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<v Speaker 3>supernatural stories about alien abductions, religious visions up on awakening

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<v Speaker 3>and so on and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you think these people are actually experiencing a lucid dream.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, because but everything looks so real that they

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<v Speaker 3>cannot believe that it is a dream. They think that

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<v Speaker 3>salesthing happens for you. So it proves how bigious sensations

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<v Speaker 3>during lucy dreaming. It is just you don't see the

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<v Speaker 3>difference between physical world and these lusage worlds during REM sleep.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, when we come back, we have to go for

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<v Speaker 2>a break.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about how people can learn to

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<v Speaker 1>practice lucid dreaming and its applications for mental health. So

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<v Speaker 1>stay with us. My guest is Michael Riduga, CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>REM Space and author of REM Psychology. He's conducted research

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<v Speaker 1>on lucid dreaming that has actually helped people lower fears

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<v Speaker 1>and anxiety and relief symptoms of depression. We'll talk more

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<v Speaker 1>about this when we come back. My guest is Michael Raduga,

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<v Speaker 1>CEO of REM Space and author of REM Psychology. Our

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<v Speaker 1>topic is lucid dreaming. Okay, Michael, can anybody learn to

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<v Speaker 1>experience lucid dreaming?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm positive. And you know, it

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<v Speaker 3>seems that you could be a very lucid dreamer because

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<v Speaker 3>you see a lot of dreams and it's a fust

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<v Speaker 3>sign of good chances to learn this phenomenon.

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<v Speaker 1>So people like me who remember their dreams easily have

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<v Speaker 1>a much easier time. Okay, so what do I do?

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me how to get into a lucid dream.

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<v Speaker 3>So, first of all, you should understand that your intention

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<v Speaker 3>is the key factor here. It means that when you

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<v Speaker 3>fall asleep, you should think about some impressive, some exciting

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<v Speaker 3>goals which you would like to achieve in a lucid dream,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, travel somewhere or seeing somebody for example your relative, friend, partner,

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<v Speaker 3>or diseased relatives, or some fantasies, and you think about it,

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<v Speaker 3>you think about desire to achieve it, and you follow

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<v Speaker 3>asleep with this intention, and there's a high chance that

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<v Speaker 3>your intention will be transformed into consciousness while dreaming or

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<v Speaker 3>when you wake up. Every time, when you wake up,

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<v Speaker 3>during the first seconds up and awakening, you may try

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<v Speaker 3>to limitate, You may try to roll out from your

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<v Speaker 3>body without using your muscles. And the reason is that

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<v Speaker 3>actually it is much easier to induce lucy dreams upon

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<v Speaker 3>waking up. On awakening because very often when we wake

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<v Speaker 3>wake up, during the first minutes, we are still actually

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<v Speaker 3>our brain is still asleep. So it means that during

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<v Speaker 3>the first few seconds of awakening you can induce lucid

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<v Speaker 3>dreams easily by just trying to levitate, getting up or

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<v Speaker 3>rolling out of your body without using muscles.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're using the word induce a lucid dream. So

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<v Speaker 1>let's say, you know, I put this intention as I'm

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<v Speaker 1>falling asleep, I tell myself over and over, this is

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<v Speaker 1>the thing I want to feel or experience or see.

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<v Speaker 1>And then as I'm waking up, I do something with

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<v Speaker 1>my thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>What do I do?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Once again, when you wake up,

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<v Speaker 3>it's highly possible that your brain is still in this

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<v Speaker 3>ram sleep and it means that any any of your

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<v Speaker 3>actions upon waken and they leads to reinducing of sleep,

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<v Speaker 3>but with consciousness. So you wake up and during the

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<v Speaker 3>first seconds, the first seconds, try to live itate. Let's

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<v Speaker 3>literally I know that.

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<v Speaker 1>You levitate, like literally rise out of my body.

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<v Speaker 3>Literally, let's literally try to live itate or try to

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<v Speaker 3>roll out of try try to roll out from your body,

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<v Speaker 3>or try to get talked without using muscles. It sounds ridiculous,

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<v Speaker 3>I know. But once again, when you wake up during

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<v Speaker 3>the first seconds, it's highly possible that your brain is

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<v Speaker 3>still asleep despite your consciousness.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so let's assume I've been able to roll out

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<v Speaker 1>of bed without moving a muscle and there was levitate,

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<v Speaker 1>and now do I look down at myself? What do

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<v Speaker 1>I try to do with this intention that I implanted

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<v Speaker 1>the night before?

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<v Speaker 3>Then, for example, you try it five times, and out

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<v Speaker 3>of those five attempts, one or two times you will

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<v Speaker 3>actually libtate or roll out of your body, and you

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<v Speaker 3>will find yourself in a dream. It will look like

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<v Speaker 3>out of body experience, but in reality it's your dream world.

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<v Speaker 3>And starting from this position, this moment, you can realize

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<v Speaker 3>any of your goals. So just make as many attempts

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<v Speaker 3>as possible, and few of them will be effective.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, according to your research, this using this lucid dreaming

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<v Speaker 1>technique has been used to treat post traumatic stress disorder

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<v Speaker 1>and depression. How how does it work to treat fears

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<v Speaker 1>and sadness?

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<v Speaker 3>Once again, it is all about vividness of this experience,

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<v Speaker 3>because your brain, in your subconsciousness, perceives these dreams as reality,

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<v Speaker 3>meaning that for example, if you have some psychological issues,

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<v Speaker 3>instead of thinking about them, instead of imagining some solutions,

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<v Speaker 3>you can relieve different situations. And when we talk about

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<v Speaker 3>application of recent dreaming, the highest number of scientific research

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<v Speaker 3>about rich dreaming application is about psychology. It's depression, it's nightmares,

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<v Speaker 3>phobeous complexes, post traumatic syndrome, and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's so interesting when I hear you explaining this.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have to tell you a story. Right when

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<v Speaker 1>I was like about twelve years old, we moved to

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<v Speaker 1>a neighborhood where there was a community swimming.

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<v Speaker 2>Pool with a lifeguard.

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<v Speaker 1>You were not allowed to be there without a parent

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<v Speaker 1>unless you could in front of the lifeguard swim two

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<v Speaker 1>lengths of the pool back and forth. I was terrified.

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<v Speaker 1>I was so afraid of drowning. I'd had a couple

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<v Speaker 1>near drowning experiences as a child. I was terrified. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't about my ability to be strong enough for the stroke.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just so afraid to swim sinse a length.

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<v Speaker 1>And one night I went to sleep and I told myself,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to swim. I am going to swim. I

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<v Speaker 1>am going to swim those two links. And when I

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<v Speaker 1>woke up in the morning, I literally saw myself while

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<v Speaker 1>I was in bed swimming. Later in the day, I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of forgot about that dream. I went to the pool,

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<v Speaker 1>I said the lifeguard, I'm ready. I'm going to do

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<v Speaker 1>those two laps. I swam twenty laps in front of him,

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<v Speaker 1>so I.

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<v Speaker 2>Know what you're talking about. It works.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a very good example. So it could be not

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<v Speaker 3>only a daring advanced to each dreamer, but also a swimmer.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a great swimmer now, but I got to

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<v Speaker 1>go to the pool without my parents and that's what mattered.

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<v Speaker 1>How do people, Michael Raduga, how do people find out

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<v Speaker 1>more about remspace and your book REM Psychology.

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<v Speaker 3>You just can find it's on Amazon or in Psychology

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<v Speaker 3>and it's a it's a the only book about using

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<v Speaker 3>each Durius for solving different psychological issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I can't wait to read it. The book is

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<v Speaker 1>REM Psychology. CEO of Remspace, Michael Riduga, thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining us today.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you great, and that brings.

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<v Speaker 1>The Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close. It's always

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<v Speaker 1>my pleasure to be with you every Sunday from seven

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<v Speaker 1>to nine pm. If you missed any part of the show,

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<v Speaker 1>you can always find it later on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 1>You were listening to The Doctor Wendy Wall Show on

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty