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Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to

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this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon

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to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you

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want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream,

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go to dpeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the

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subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your

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smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for

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your support. This is I'm pretty excited about this. I

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want to Welcome to the program. James Lindsay. He is

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an author, a mathematician, and self described professional troublemaker. He's

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written six books spanning the subjects including religion, the philosophy

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of science, postmodern theory, expert on critical race theory. He

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is the founder of New Discourses. You can read his

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work there New Discourses dot com. He along with Helen

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pluck Rose and Peter Bogosi and they also did the

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Infamous or famous depending on your tay, the Grievance Studies papers.

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And Welcome to the program. James Lindsay, how are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: I'm good. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this. I do appreciate it, and

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I reached out to you, and this kind of came

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together last minute here, over the course last hour, actually

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was I'm seeing in the wake of this murder here

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in Charlotte of this Ukrainian refugee by you know, mentally unstable,

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deranged man on our light rail line almost three weeks ago.

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Now there has been a growing chorus coming from the right,

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the online right, and it's it's starting to concern me,

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and I'm starting to hear parts of it kind of

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filter out through into more I guess mainstream or noormy

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types of people on social media, but also in some

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emails and some calls and stuff here at the show.

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And it has to do with the fact that the

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attacker here was black, the victim was white, and this

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is now being used as some sort of, I don't know,

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like a call for what is essentially a racial essentialism

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that we saw on the left. That I know people

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like you and me and you have greatly informed a

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lot of my work and views on this stuff, and

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I'm concerned that we're seeing some of the same stuff

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now bubbling up on the right that we were fighting

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on the left. And so what are you I know,

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you're seeing some of this as well, and you're trying

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to push back and it's not a pleasant experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm seeing exactly the same thing. I've been seeing

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this actually for our number of years building and become

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very concerned about it last summer and I started to

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speak up very clearly about it, and I have been

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basically punished for it vigorously since. So what I'm saying

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now is not a surprise to me, but it is terrifying.

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It is that everything we've seen from the left, the

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race of essentialism, the racial provocation, and that's just the

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race to mention there are other sex, sexuality, gender, and

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so on, is now being replicated in reverse. On the right.

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They've decided to go full reactionary rather than to try

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to restore equality under the law in our country. And

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they're pushing that hard right now in the wake of

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or making use of this horrific tragedy, this horrific crime

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that took place there in Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's it, the restoration of rule of law,

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because what you know, five years, four years ago, we

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on the right were saying things like you know, no,

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it's equality under the law, and no people shouldn't be

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given preferences and that sort of thing. And now it

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seems like there are a lot of people that I

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thought I was standing next to that were agreeing with me.

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Now it seems like I'm standing alone. They may have

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gone somewhere else, and like, that's not This is not

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a healthy place for the society to be. Do you

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think though, that this is like this this is intentional

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or is this you said, reactionary? Is it like I

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don't know, is it just this response out of like

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this feeling of well, if they did it to me,

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I'm going to do it to them too.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's some of that, But it's happening online. And

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the first rule of online is everything that happens online

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is at least partially fake. So there are operators embedded

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within everything happening online. It's not all organic. There are

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agents provocateur who are inflaming this. Instead of trying to

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turn the temperature down, they're trying to turn the temperature up.

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Whether that's because they're getting clicks and getting you know,

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opportunity to be seen or go viral or whatever else,

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or whether that's because they're working for somebody. We know

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a lot of the accounts on Twitter, for example, are

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actually foreign agents that are working to stoke things up.

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We see that when just as happened the other day,

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a you know, internet line gets cut in the Red

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Sea and then Pakistan goes offline for twelve hours and

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all the big body accounts that are agitating all the

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time seem to disappear until they get back on line.

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So we know that this is also it's partly fake

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and it's partly real, and that applies in another dimension.

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The complaints that they're making are partly fake and partly real.

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We're pointing at something real if we want to get

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down to brass tacks. The reason that this career criminal,

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the schizophrenic was on the train in the first place

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is because of various policies to do with crime and

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criminality and criminal justice that are championed in city after

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city and state after state by Democrats, that are based

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in things like restorative justice, which doesn't work, which are

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based in things like you know, defund the police, which

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doesn't work, abolish the prisons, which doesn't work for various reasons.

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There's you know a variety of different reasons from you know,

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opportunities for graft to wanting to have a virtuous appearance

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with regard to the issue to downrighte adoption in some

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cases of communist vision and ideology and policy that lead

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this to be the case, but rather than attacking this

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genuine issue and that is actually a racially divided issue,

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not because of the issue itself, but because the program

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has couched in diversity, equity and inclusion, racialist language analyzed

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through critical racory. Black Lives Matter has come out and

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poured gas all over this fire already today because of that.

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This is a very clear, very straightforward policy issue and actually,

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just to be blunt Democratic Party platform issue that's being

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turned into a race issue so that we can't get

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to the bottom of it and we can't solve it.

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And it's disturbing to me to see the right, which

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has been fighting against this problem so vocally and powerfully

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for five to six years, suddenly decides that it wants

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to get into the same mud hole and play with

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the people on the left that they claimed that they

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were standing against.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned a couple different factors, and there are

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different people that would fit the bill that you described

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for those factors, I think, and you said that they're

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using this story, this issue in order to advance this

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other thing. And it got me thinking of what you've

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always said, which I have quoted you. I try to

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always give you credit for My audience now knows this.

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In fact, a caller just quoted you saying at in

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the last hour, the issue is never the issue. The

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issue is always the revolution. And when I heard you

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say that, everything sort of falls in place from there,

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all of these different issues, And so am I. So

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is that what I am now seeing from the right?

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Is this the same thing with these right wing influencers

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that are using this.

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Speaker 2: That's my opinion. Yes, with the influencers, of course, a

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lot of the people who follow them are frankly just mad. Yeah,

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they're horrified, they're frustrated, they despair. They've wanted these policies

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to be corrected, and they don't get corrected, and then

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this tragedy, this horrific crime happens. All of this was

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very directly preventable, and in fact, it's not like nobody

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saw it coming. People have been campaigning to get these

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kinds of laws reverted to, these kinds of policies reversed

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for a decade now, with no effect. There's at the

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Democratic Party has been absolutely unresponsive and in fact just

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doubled down consistently, and of course the Biden administration did

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that with every issue they could. In the frustration that

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a lot of people feel is so high, which makes

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them fertile soil for the seeds that the agents provocateur

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are throwing, which I think is intentional. I think it's deliberate.

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And like you said, you know that famous line from

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David Horowitz, the issue was never the issue. The issue

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is always the revolution coming straight out of the communist playbook.

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Is where he got that, or he was reporting on it,

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the idea with you know, the George Floyd riots to

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which they're now comparing this. You can look at what

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just just look at what happened. Look at the fruit.

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That wasn't designed to help racial minority communities or black

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lives or any of anything like it. It was an

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opportunistic moment for a radical movement to attack our society,

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our government, and the idea of law and order. And

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as that has broken down, now you have something that's happened,

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and you have an opportunistic group of people, some of

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whom are probably foreign actors, some of whom are probably

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domestic actors with agendas or on payrolls or whatever else

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who are now pushing the other direction. And the goal

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is like a par of scissors, just to cut us

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off from our society, from the rule of law, from

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equality under the law, from the equal protection clause in

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the laws, and trying in the fourteenth Amendment. And I

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think that that's just what I said, an opportunistic move

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by a group of dedicated political radicals who are attempting

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to do something to a political agenda.

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Speaker 1: So now, all this time I've been quoting you, and

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it's actually Horowitz that I've been quoting. I've been giving

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you false attribution. I could go for a job at

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Harvard now no, yeah, all right, Look, it was a pleasure.

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I do appreciate you joining me for the program on

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such short note. It's very nice to talk with you.

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I hope you'll come back again, and good luck.

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Speaker 2: Keep up the good works there, fir thing you too.

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Speaker 3: Take care. That's James Lindsay.

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Speaker 1: You can read him at new Discourses dot com. He's

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got his podcast and everything else up there. Highly recommended.

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Thanks again to James. So, when I was a kid,

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my grandpa died with Alzheimer's and before he died, my

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mom and my dad took care of him as he

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got worse. Forty years ago, there were no treatments and

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not much support for caregivers and family. But things are

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different today because of the work of so many people,

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including the Alzheimer's Association of Western Carolina. It's a great

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organization with awesome people with huge hearts. I've been a

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supporter for twenty five years. This cause means a lot

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to me. I participate in the annual Walk to End

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Alzheimer's and I'm leading a Charlotte team again this year,

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and it's called once again Pete's Pack. You can sign

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up and you can join the team and walk with us.

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It's on October eighteenth that truest field. Sign up at

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alz dot org slash walk and then you could search

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for my team name Pete's Pack. There's also a link

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at the Pete Pot There's also a link in the

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description of this podcast. Also, I'll be am seeing the

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Gastonia Walk on October eleventh, and so you can make

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a team and join that one too, or make a

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donation and help me hit my goal of five thousand

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dollars if you do, I really appreciate it. There are

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a bunch of other walks all over the Carolinas. You

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can go to alz dot org slash walk for all

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the dates and locations. We're closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's.

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Can you help us get there? Will you walk with me?

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For a different future, for families, for more time for treatments.

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This is why we walk. I gotta say, I'm very

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happy that I finally got to speak with James Lindsay.

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I have been. I did not tell him this, but

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I've been a fan of his work for years. I've

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been trying to get him on for years, and then

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just it happened today.

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Speaker 3: I saw him saying some stuff about the use of.

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Speaker 1: The Charlotte Murder and how it's being used by people

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to foment discord. And you see these people on the

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quote unquote right that are now adopting this racial essentialism

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that we've been arguing against.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, what the hell are you doing over there?

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Speaker 1: Why are you doing that? And so I reached out

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to him on Twitter and I was like, Hey, could

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you come on and talk about this because I'm seeing

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this too, and he agreed and I'm so happy that

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he did so. Anyway, if you like, I have quoted

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James Lindsay many many times over many years, So go

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to his website New discourses dot com. He did such

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in depth guides and tutorials for years on critical race

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theory and critical studies and stuff, the history of it,

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the philosophy behind it. I mean, I learned so much

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from him about the critical study stuff, and hey gaalienism

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and all of it, the underpinning philosophies and stuff, the

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history Anthony Graham, she and the known like all of

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these different people in the in that movement, and I mean,

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and it's still all there. Like you will find he

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would he flies all over the place and does speeches

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for like very very cheap for groups that need him

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to like explain what they're up against. He did a

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ton of stuff with Moms Moms for Liberty about the

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the books in the schools and all of that and

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the you know, the fights that they were having, and

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so he would go and speak to their chapters all

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over the country. Just just a warrior for this stuff.

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So definitely give the guy a follow if you're on Twitter.

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I think he's he goes by conceptually James I think

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is his name conceptually James or James Lindsay. And he's well

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worth the follow, and he does he does as I

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have been known to do as well. He does get

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in there and gets a little bit rowdy on Twitter.

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So he's a good follow, and he's got a great

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website with a lot of resources New discourses dot com.

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All right, So I know it's been a while, but

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Roy Cooper has finally weighed in on the on the

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situation here on the murder of the Ukrainian refugee Arena

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Zarutzka and Charlotte. I know, I know it's been eighteen days,

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but still better late than never, as is Roy Cooper's

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mantra when it comes to hurricane response, for example, better

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late than that, right exactly. So, after eighteen days of silence,

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Michael Wattley, former chairman of the RNC and the North

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Carolina GOP Republican candidate for US Senate, and Wattley called

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him out on Twitter and he said, eighteen days, where

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you've been my good friend, Ray. He didn't say that part,

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but he said Roy, like, what's up? No no word

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from Roy Cooper for eighteen days? And if you heard

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yesterday's program. I went over the trek, the trec This

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was what Roy Cooper put together, this Task Force for

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Racial Equity and Criminal Justice back in twenty twenty, during

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the height of the summer of fiery but mostly peaceful rioting.

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And he put in charge of that task force Josh Stein,

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who was then the Attorney General who is now the governor,

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and Anita Earls, a member of the North Carolina Court

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Supreme Court rather and they had pages and pages, I

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think fifteen pages of recommendations. I went over some of them.

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And this is their philosophy. This is the judicial philosophy

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as espoused by the Democrat Party, the radical left, and

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it infused our court system in the ensuing five years.

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So finally, after eighteen days of silence, Roy Cooper is

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goaded into, well, maybe a comms person is goaded into

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finally saying something about this story that has now gone national.

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And he says, or the account says, because there's no

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RC in the tweet. And usually when he tweets, usually

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about the Hurricanes, I mean, not the ones. He doesn't

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respond to the hockey team. He oh, he tweets about

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the hockey team, and then he writes RC, So you

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know he wrote that. So he didn't write these right

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because he doesn't have RC. So here's what the account says.

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The murder of Arena Zarutzka is a horrible tragedy and

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we must do everything we can to keep people safe.

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Only a cynical DC insider would think it's acceptable to

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use her death for political points, especially one who supported

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cutting funding to law enforcement in North Carolina, which never happened,

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by the way. And also, do you think Roy Cooper

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was using George Floyd's death when he convened the task force?

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Wasn't that using somebody's death for political points? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I know it's different when you do it.

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Speaker 1: No, it was wrong then and it would be wrong now.

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I've been attorney general and governor dedicating my career to

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putting violent criminals behind bars, but not clearing out the

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rape kit backlog and keeping them there. It's time Michael

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Watley and the GOP get serious in Washington about funding

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our law enforcement. And that's what I'll do with Senator.

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This is not a law enforcement funding problem, dude. This

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is not about Washington DC not giving Charlotte enough money

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to pay for cops salaries. That's not what this is about.

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The cops did their jobs. They arrested the dude fourteen times.

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This is a judicial system problem, and this is such

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a week. This is a worse response than even the

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mayor gave the first time and the second time, and

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it's basically in the third time too, So like all

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three of her statements, this is worse than all three

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of her statements.

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Speaker 3: And he got dragged on Twitter and I was so

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there for it.

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slash terms limited timeofer. I do admit, I do acknowledge

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I did derive a good bit of saturd faction watching

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00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:07,400
Roy Cooper get ratioed into space yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I may, I know it may be a little bit petty,

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00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,960
but so be it.

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Speaker 1: After watching this guy skate on bad policies, bad politics

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and destructive behavior and getting a pass from North Carolina media,

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it was nice to finally see this guy nuked. It

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was And for folks who don't know what a ratio is,

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it's when the number of responses outnumbers.

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Speaker 3: The likes on a post.

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Speaker 1: So if I say, you know, mayo is the best

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condom end ever, and I have you know, a billion likes,

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because that's obviously the true position, I have a billion

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likes and I have only you know, two comments, then

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that's not a ratio. But if I were to say mustard,

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for example, is the best condiment and I got a

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billion comments and only two likes, that would be a

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that would be like probably the worst ratio in the

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history of the world. That's called getting ratioed. It means

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that more people are responding to your comment than liking it,

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which means generally that because if somebody's going to respond

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in a positive way, they're also going to click the

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like button. The fact that they're not clicking like means

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that what you have said is so profoundly unpopular that

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everybody is calling you an idiot and attacking your position

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and you And that's what happened to him on both

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of those tweets, both of his tweets, he sent out

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two of them back to back. I read it all

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as one statement, but those were two different tweets, and

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it was like a two to one, three to one

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ratio margin. It wasn't even close. And this is what

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I said at the beginning, when Roy Cooper threw his

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name in the hat and then threw his hat into

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the ring said he was going to be running for senate.

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I said, he has never gotten the kind of coverage

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that he is now going to get from the national media.

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And I don't I'm not sure that he's prepared for it,

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Like I'm I don't mean like from a comm standpoint,

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because I didn't know at that time. But now it

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seems like his comms team is also not prepared for

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this either, because he's been running like attorney. He was

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running a senate race, state senate race. You know, he

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was in the state legislature. And then he runs for

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attorney general and it's just, you know, I'm going to

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be tough on crime. And then he sits in the

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AG's office for four terms, barely even gets any opponents,

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and then he runs for governor. And what did he

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do with the governor race. He made it about HB two,

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00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:10,559
barely beat Pat McCrory, barely beat him, and just got

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fawning media coverage from the state political press. And it

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00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:19,839
was a walk in the park for him, even during

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COVID when people are raising all of these questions and

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00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:30,079
pointing out problems citing his you know, egregious overreach of

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00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:36,400
the executive and we were getting no traction. And so

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now he's running for US Senate and now this seat

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is really important to the rest of the country, and

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now there's a lot of outside interests that are interested

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in this race. And he has failed his first test here.

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He has failed it. This is the first test, how

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does he behave in the wake of this kind of

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an attack, and he failed it. Josh Stein did not

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fare much better. The governor says I'm heartbroken for the

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family of Arena Zarutzka who lost their loved one to

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the senseless act of violence, and I am appalled by

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the footage of her murder. We need more cops on

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the beat. See this is the Democrat talking point. This

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has gone out obviously, the fact that it took this

415
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,160
long for Cooper and Stein. I've also got a statement

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00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:33,559
here from State Senator Caleb Tedros who I had on

417
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the program a couple of weeks back, and he's talking

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about local officers need more staffing and training and tools.

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They're making it about police. They're making it about we

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00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,160
need more cops because they see this as an opportunity

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to distance themselves from the defund the police line that

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they were selling five years ago, and it did not

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help them. They got pummeled in the state legislative races. Pummeled,

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I say, the Republican campaigns ran ad after ed after

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ad about their defund the police platform and the crime,

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and it did not go well for Democrats.

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Speaker 3: And so this is now their chance.

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00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:23,599
Speaker 1: They're going to try to reposition themselves as backers of

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00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,359
the blue. We need more money for cops, and this

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00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:28,880
is not a money for cops issue, that's not what

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00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,160
this is about. And the fact that all of them

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are now coming out saying the same thing, We need

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00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,640
more money for cops, we need more money for mental health. No,

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00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,960
the problem is the courts, which in Mecklenberg County are

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controlled by Democrats. The courts are controlled by the Democrats,

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00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:50,519
and this is a core judicial philosophy. When you're letting

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00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,559
people go with a rap sheet of fourteen arrests and

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00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,319
years in prisons for violent offenses, and then they come

439
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,759
in expressing sex a ski it's aphrenic symptoms, and your

440
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:06,680
answer is to let them walk on cashless bail with

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00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:08,759
a promise to appear for a psyche val.

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00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:13,039
Speaker 3: That's a judicial philosophy. That's the problem.

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00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: All right.

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00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:16,000
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Visit incentive tripkit dot com because great trips deserve even

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better returns. There is some breaking news out of Utah

463
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:27,279
at Utah Valley University. Charlie Kirk was delivering a speech.

464
00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:30,359
He was doing one of his events at Utah Valley

465
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,880
University and there are reports that shots were fired at

466
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,240
the event. There's no other information available at this time

467
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:46,440
that I'm seeing. Fox News is reporting it, no further

468
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,039
information available. CNN says nothing on his injuries, just that

469
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,279
Charlie Kirk was shot at don't know if he was

470
00:27:54,599 --> 00:28:04,319
struck or not, and I don't know if there's a

471
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:08,039
miscommunication going on with the way it's being framed as

472
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:15,119
that he was shot at an event or if he

473
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,319
was shot at the event.

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00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:19,519
Speaker 3: I'm seeing it reported different ways. And I don't know

475
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:20,240
if people in.

476
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: Their race to be the first to report that something

477
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:33,960
terrible has happened that they are not that they're reporting

478
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,839
it sloppily. I will take this as an opportunity. Once again, Well,

479
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,359
I guess two things. Number One, Let's wait and see

480
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:45,440
what the information is. Yes, offer your prayers if you

481
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,279
are the praying type, for Charlie Kirk as well as

482
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:52,880
all of the students and all the attendees, everybody that

483
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,559
was there, that there are no casualties, there are no injuries,

484
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,480
and everybody is alive. Because we don't have any information,

485
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,880
and so just wait for more information to come out

486
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,079
before racing to fill in any gaps with what you

487
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,359
think may have occurred. And also, don't amplify people who

488
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,119
are doing that on social media. And this gets to

489
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,720
point number two, which is in this day and age,

490
00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:25,519
everybody with a social media account is part of the

491
00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:29,839
media and there is a responsibility that comes with that.

492
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:34,640
And I'm not saying this to gatekeep you or to

493
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:39,319
suppress you or not you or anybody just but there

494
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,960
are things that you should do and keep in mind

495
00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:48,200
when you are publishing, because you are publishing, you are

496
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:51,880
a member of the media when you publish something on

497
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,279
your social media accounts, and so you need to be

498
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:02,920
responsible to not spread lies and not promote things that

499
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,200
are not true that are going to make people react

500
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,039
in ways that they otherwise would not have reacted. So

501
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,000
before you amplify something, before you share it and say,

502
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,200
oh my gosh, I can't believe this, which I've never

503
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:20,359
understood that people some people who do this and it's

504
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,359
not everybody hashtag, not everyone, but like there are some

505
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,359
people that it seems like they they want the attention

506
00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:31,039
for themselves. There's a lot of people in legacy media

507
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:36,599
that does this too. The suspect is reportedly in custody

508
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,799
according to Desert News that's an Arizona newspaper. Let me

509
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,759
see if I can pull up the information. So they're

510
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:52,480
reporting Charlie Kirk was shot at Charlie Kirk was shot

511
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,400
at an event that's from Desert News. Bystanders report seeing

512
00:30:56,559 --> 00:30:59,440
Kirk shot near his neck during a Q and A

513
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,359
with student. Again, all of This information is subject to

514
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,640
change because it always does.

515
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: It always does.

516
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,039
Speaker 1: Okay. A suspect is in custody. Campus is on lockdown.

517
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,839
A single shot was fired on campus towards a visiting speaker.

518
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:18,720
Police are investigating. Now. Suspect is in custody, according to

519
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:23,880
an alert from UVU. But that's but that's it. That's

520
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,519
all we've got from Deseret dot Com. Again, that's a

521
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:35,240
newspaper in Arizona, right, Arizona? Or is that Utah? But

522
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:42,000
he was speaking at a Utah event and I'm not

523
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,839
seeing it, Okay, So it says breaking news, but there's

524
00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:47,279
nothing else to it. So again, if you are of

525
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:50,319
the prayerful kind, say a prayer for Charlie Kirk and

526
00:31:50,359 --> 00:31:56,160
his family. He's got several young children, a wife, and

527
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,079
he was at a university appearance doing a Q and A.

528
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: All right, that'll do it for this episode.

529
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,119
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. I could not do

530
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,319
the show without your support and the support of the

531
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:09,400
businesses that advertise on the podcast, So if you'd like,

532
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:11,640
please support them too and tell them you heard it here.

533
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,279
You can also become a patron at my Patreon page

534
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,960
or go to dpetecleanershow dot com again, thank you so

535
00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:23,640
much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.