Speaker 1: Either we are do you know that the Pagan Podcast
Speaker 1: becoming a supporter of joining us at this time to
Speaker 1: continue bust the control.
Speaker 2: Amazing description games.
Speaker 1: For the detect the episode all lot of things. You're
Speaker 1: a divorce lawyer, family lawyer.
Speaker 2: Forty one years, yeah, forty one years, prow law the
Speaker 2: last three or so I gave the.
Speaker 1: Four and criminal. There's a lot of probable, protect, a
Speaker 1: lot of fun, Okay.
Speaker 2: A lot of fun. I have the temperament and it's
Speaker 2: perfect for that type of law because I don't sometimes
Speaker 2: have empathy for those around me. So when everyone else
Speaker 2: is freaking out, our schemes going fully, which my love
Speaker 2: would say is a problem.
Speaker 1: Another that's not a problem.
Speaker 3: If everyone's freaking out, somebody's gotta you know, gotta keep
Speaker 3: it cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know you need it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 3: That is true, especially in those uh, you know, divorce cases,
Speaker 3: like emotions are running high as they are. I just
Speaker 3: wrapped up my own, well not divorce case, but the affair.
Speaker 4: With my ex girlfriends and the mother of my children,
Speaker 4: So I know first has emotions can can get how
Speaker 4: high they funny to lay each other.
Speaker 2: Room and so you can imagine what It's like when
Speaker 2: you are the curing that you're fighting in front of
Speaker 2: that's going to decide everything you can get, and the
Speaker 2: challenges have been in turning before a jury in that case.
Speaker 1: I can definitely imagine that we're lucky to here in
Speaker 1: the Netherlands we don't have a trial by jury. I
Speaker 1: mean that is not to say that you know, no
Speaker 1: other third parties were involved, because of course they were,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no, no trial by jury fortunately. But I
Speaker 1: can imagine the struggles of having to convince so many
Speaker 1: people that what they're what they're going to say, what
Speaker 1: they're going to decide, is the right thing, whatever the
Speaker 1: right thing may be at that moment exactly.
Speaker 2: And it's like you have to pick the twelve people
Speaker 2: that's going to be on a jury among the sixty
Speaker 2: four or five people have a many days it's in
Speaker 2: a panel that was always careful. I wouldn't pick you
Speaker 2: to be on my jury if you didn't laugh at
Speaker 2: my jokes. I wanted people that connected with me would
Speaker 2: actually laugh at my jokes. If you didn't laugh at
Speaker 2: my joke, I wouldn't put you on the jury.
Speaker 1: Oh, I actually like that. I like that. You know,
Speaker 1: the cases like that are, you know, serious and high
Speaker 1: strong enough as it is. And if you can't can't
Speaker 1: laugh about something, you know, you got to have a
Speaker 1: way to keep it light or to you know, make
Speaker 1: a little fun of the situation.
Speaker 2: What was the sign of can between me and each
Speaker 2: of the individual drawer?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I understand that. That's that's great, that's great.
Speaker 1: You've been doing that for twenty two.
Speaker 2: Years, well for forty one years. But I did mainly
Speaker 2: divorce in criminal law the last twenty two Before that,
Speaker 2: I investigated arsons for insurance companies. I tried car accident
Speaker 2: cases or when someone was hurt or when someone was
Speaker 2: hurt on the job. I would try those cases.
Speaker 1: Okay, but that those are like, isn't there a lot
Speaker 1: of fraud with those cases?
Speaker 2: Yes? And I have some crazy stories about fraud in
Speaker 2: those cases and when we discovered them, and crazy things.
Speaker 2: And it looks like you have a great cat, yes,
Speaker 2: which goes along with my bad puppy that's underneath me
Speaker 2: now tangled up. Yeah, no, this is my my kiddy
Speaker 2: co host. Yes, there's nothing greater than a good cat.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I wouldn't say he's a he's a
Speaker 3: good cat, you know, he has great agent good, he.
Speaker 1: Has his moments. I mean he's a he's a big
Speaker 1: red ginger cat. So, and he definitely has that temperament.
Speaker 1: Although there is something about gingers. I mean, my daughter's ginger,
Speaker 1: my axe is a ginger, my wife is a ginger,
Speaker 1: my cat is a ginger. It's almost like I have
Speaker 1: a type.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he developed a taste.
Speaker 1: I did. I did.
Speaker 2: It's it's.
Speaker 1: Not not always, not always to my my benefits. I
Speaker 1: have to say, you know that Red had temperaments that
Speaker 1: just like that fire exactly.
Speaker 2: It could be terrible good.
Speaker 1: Terrible, terrible good, terribly good, Yeah, good, yes, terrible, not.
Speaker 2: Terribly good, terrible book. It's terrible, terrible and it's good.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I like that. I'm gonna yes, I'm going
Speaker 1: to use that from now long. Yes, terrible goods. It's
Speaker 1: terrible and it's good.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes.
Speaker 1: So you have also written a number of books all
Speaker 1: having to do with like are the old crime stories
Speaker 1: or crime ish stories.
Speaker 2: Yes, they are faco crime thrillers. And it's really a
Speaker 2: test of a challenge between two people in the real
Speaker 2: world chess battle they go through trying to get each other,
Speaker 2: and it's a struggle between through the books of these
Speaker 2: two people, a East Texas detective called O c Sim's
Speaker 2: there's also the comedic relief for the book because there's
Speaker 2: things about it that are so weird. But these are
Speaker 2: things that I've come with cross Like Oci has a mustache,
Speaker 2: and you may have seen a guy with a mustache focus.
Speaker 2: It doesn't move with his mouth. It moves separately and independent,
Speaker 2: low in his mouth. So as he's talking, his mass
Speaker 2: doing one thing, the mustache does something else. It's the
Speaker 2: weirdest thing I ever saw. I had to put it
Speaker 2: on my character. Have you ever known someone like that?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think I have known someone like that, but
Speaker 1: I can. I can definitely envision It's it's it's hard
Speaker 1: to it's hard to focus when someone like that is,
Speaker 1: you know, speaking to you, like you're trying to listen,
Speaker 1: but you know if his mouth and his mustache are
Speaker 1: doing two like you know, have two different lives.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to focus when I'm met this guy,
Speaker 2: and actually he's like a good friend of mine. Now
Speaker 2: you don't really want to focus. He can fort to
Speaker 2: watch it because it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: So are most of your stories pulled? From real life,
Speaker 1: from the experiences that you have had.
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you, so you know, in your life,
Speaker 2: at least for me, most people are pretty close to
Speaker 2: the saying. But every once in a while you come
Speaker 2: across those characters that are just completely district than everyone else,
Speaker 2: and you remember those people. There are few, but when
Speaker 2: you come across one, you know it. Yeah, And these
Speaker 2: people are people with characters in these books are based
Speaker 2: upon those people in my life I've come across I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's somebody who that you got to
Speaker 2: write about. You got to have a character like that,
Speaker 2: like oc Sims and the guy with the lustache, And
Speaker 2: there's all sorts of ridiculous things about this guy, like
Speaker 2: have you ever known I know it all? That actually
Speaker 2: does know a whole lot of stuff about a lot
Speaker 2: of things. But it's just a complete know it all
Speaker 2: about everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah that I hate to say it, but that was
Speaker 1: my brother. But the and the bad part was indeed
Speaker 1: that most of the time when he lectured me on things,
Speaker 1: lecturing is his older brother. I hate to admit it,
Speaker 1: but more times than not, he was actually right about it.
Speaker 2: On a second, let me get my dog. She's tangled up.
Speaker 1: Oh dear, Yeah, no, of course, of course that is
Speaker 1: perfectly fine. I'm lucky to have Timmy just laying on
Speaker 1: my on my lap, making sure that I am comfortable
Speaker 1: well as a cat.
Speaker 2: I guess thirteen a thirteen year old golden retriever that
Speaker 2: his that's insane.
Speaker 1: I mean, most golden retrievers are. There's that's why there
Speaker 1: is such a thing as golden retriever energy. It'szy no,
Speaker 1: but the the no with all that. That used to
Speaker 1: be my younger brother. He was three three almost four
Speaker 1: years younger than me. But when he lectured me on things,
Speaker 1: because I used to be the rowdy one, you know,
Speaker 1: the one who just does things, and he used to
Speaker 1: be the chronic overthinker. He was also, like always very
Speaker 1: very observant, So when he lectured me on things, when
Speaker 1: he schooled me on things, I didn't want to listen
Speaker 1: at that time. But he usually was right about it,
Speaker 1: and I hate to admit that, and I hated to
Speaker 1: admit that when he did. But yeah, I told my brother.
Speaker 2: It is not was it not correct that your brother
Speaker 2: sometimes would fall victim because he was in no at
Speaker 2: all the people that we could fall him.
Speaker 1: He was too observant for that.
Speaker 2: I was. He was.
Speaker 1: He got lucky. He got lucky when it when it
Speaker 1: comes to that. I mean that is not to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't make any mistakes. Sometimes because of
Speaker 1: the chronic overthinking, he waited to do things that he
Speaker 1: should have done, yes a long time ago, but no,
Speaker 1: he was too observant for that. So really like kudos
Speaker 1: to him for that, because I never did. Actually, I
Speaker 1: was usually the one who was getting well, getting fools. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say getting fools, but my genders
Speaker 1: they are, yeah, there's something else. I don't know, they're yeah. So.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you've ever met a psychopath
Speaker 2: or a sociopath. I don't know if you've ever known one.
Speaker 1: I know, do I have two kits with one?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, one of the other character in my book
Speaker 2: in the Battle the Life Chess Battle against Osean SAMs
Speaker 2: is Marylyn, who is a psychopath. I'm known, dude. She's
Speaker 2: a merger of the two that I've known, and they're
Speaker 2: in a struggle on can he catch her or can
Speaker 2: she ruin me? Which one's going to happen first. And
Speaker 2: in the second book in the Netherlands, have you ever
Speaker 2: written out a hurricane anywhere?
Speaker 1: I've never experienced one, thankfully, so I've written out five hurricanes.
Speaker 2: When you go through a hurricane, you see and do
Speaker 2: stuff you wouldn't you would never believe, like man host
Speaker 2: blowing off and water spewing out two stories high like
Speaker 2: a fountain, or walking down the middle of a street
Speaker 2: waste time, floodwater. And let me tell you, there's nothing
Speaker 2: nastier than fly to God with the gutters spewing on
Speaker 2: each side of you like a fountain. Okay, and I
Speaker 2: put my second book, Murdered by Storm. It's a psycho
Speaker 2: murder thriller daring a hurricane. Look, so I wanted to
Speaker 2: write I have a helicopter coming out with right now, naturally,
Speaker 2: but because I wanted to write about all the amazing
Speaker 2: things I saw in a hurricane. I'm very sorry about that.
Speaker 2: I can't control air control.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's fine, show up on my audio.
Speaker 2: So it's decoate. And also, you know, we live in
Speaker 2: a very divided outfield world. Well, people don't think that
Speaker 2: they can connect. But if you go through a hurricane,
Speaker 2: you see people helping total strangers. They don't care what
Speaker 2: you believe. You're religion, your grace. They don't care about
Speaker 2: any all of that. Someone's in trouble and you see
Speaker 2: other people that don't even know them putting their lives
Speaker 2: at risk. They're helping them, and that changes your life.
Speaker 2: It changes your life, and I wanted to write about
Speaker 2: that too.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, here in the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: We now here the Netherlands, we know all about flooding,
Speaker 1: of course, since at least half, if not over half,
Speaker 1: of our country is below sea level. It's a few
Speaker 1: days ago. Actually it was another the the remembrance of
Speaker 1: the the great floods, great breaking of them of the
Speaker 1: dikes that happened in nineteen fifty three. It was the
Speaker 1: the single largest disaster, natural disaster that has ever happened
Speaker 1: in the in the Netherlands, in the province of Zeeland.
Speaker 1: It was, you know after that that we well, we
Speaker 1: as a nation dedicated ourselves to combat the water and
Speaker 1: make sure that you know, something like that never happens again.
Speaker 1: That is not to say it didn't happen again, it
Speaker 1: was a few years ago at another I did not know.
Speaker 2: I did not know the dikes ever broke in. Then,
Speaker 2: well I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I believe it was the just the natural ones.
Speaker 1: Still like we hadn't had the great like the great
Speaker 1: works that we put in place to to prevent that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, water, especially for us Dutch, it's been our
Speaker 1: greatest ally and our greatest greatest enemy at the same time.
Speaker 1: So flooding and disasters like that, we are well familiar
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: So I mean, so you know about that and the
Speaker 2: thing that's struggling During the last hurricane that I wrote out,
Speaker 2: and it was Hurricane Harving in Houston that crept toward
Speaker 2: the city for two weeks, everyone knowing it was coming,
Speaker 2: and then it sat on top of Houston for five days.
Speaker 2: So and Houston got fifty two inches of brain. And
Speaker 2: I lived in a high rise downtown right across the
Speaker 2: park to where the refuge center was, so thousands of
Speaker 2: refugees were there, everybody with nothing, their homes had been destroyed,
Speaker 2: And so I spent the week of the hurricane walking
Speaker 2: across the park during the hurricane and helping the refugees.
Speaker 2: Then after the Hurricane past I spent weeks helping people
Speaker 2: that didn't have anybody to help them cut their homes
Speaker 2: so they can get ready for repair, and it changed
Speaker 2: my life. It was one of the worst things I
Speaker 2: ever went through and one of the greatest things Simon
Speaker 2: went through. It's like, you know, Carl Jung writes about
Speaker 2: you can only reach higher levels of consciousness through catastrophe,
Speaker 2: and I can tell you that for me, I discovered
Speaker 2: parts of my subconscious that I didn't know was there
Speaker 2: during that catastrophe. That parts like I joked about having
Speaker 2: a lack of empathy not during that time. That opened
Speaker 2: up whole new windows for him because people needed help
Speaker 2: and it was life changing. I wanted to write about
Speaker 2: that too. And I know it sounds weird writing about
Speaker 2: a psycho crime thriller during the hurricane and writing about
Speaker 2: the good things about people, but that's what I wrote about.
Speaker 2: Houston is a very it's a very international city. I
Speaker 2: know you wouldn't really think about that the stereotype of
Speaker 2: Texas what it would be, but there's one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty languages spoken in Houston. Sixty yes, So it's the
Speaker 2: greatest international food you could ever find. Anywhere is in Houston, Texas.
Speaker 2: I've only found two things in the whole world in
Speaker 2: my travels that you cannot get in Houston, and that
Speaker 2: is great black fee prawns. You can't get that here.
Speaker 2: And you can get a great Korean salad which has
Speaker 2: a live octopus on it. You can't get that in Houston.
Speaker 2: Those are the only two things I've ever found you
Speaker 2: can't get in Houston almost as good, are better than
Speaker 2: where it is locally. Wow, you see all these different
Speaker 2: races helping, risking their lives to help each other change
Speaker 2: in your lives. Yeah, just seeing it. The other part
Speaker 2: of it's even bigger.
Speaker 1: And that is true human nature. That is when you
Speaker 1: can see that the divide between racist nationalities, that it's
Speaker 1: all I don't want to say made up, but pushed
Speaker 1: upon us, forced upon us, maybe even because Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is in times when the shadow of the world presents itself,
Speaker 1: the true human nature and the true true light in
Speaker 1: human nature shines. And I I do like the the
Speaker 1: Youngian concept of that because I I mean, we've all
Speaker 1: gone through through harsh times. We've all had our shadow too,
Speaker 1: to get to know and to integrate into to ourselves
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 2: You are a reader, Carl, you do, really I am.
Speaker 1: I am familiar with with his his works.
Speaker 2: Yes, not many people are. It's pretty tough step to y,
Speaker 2: but I do love it myself. Yeah, but that's that's
Speaker 2: this sort of thing that I wanted to include in
Speaker 2: the Blood. So that's part of the re And also
Speaker 2: as you dry, as you live through one of these hurricanes,
Speaker 2: the thing that struck me is that there's nothing that
Speaker 2: wops away DNA evidence like floodwater, so and police are
Speaker 2: very busy with other things during hurricanes. It's a perfect
Speaker 2: time to commit a crap.
Speaker 1: It would actually Yeah. Yeah, So that's so much is
Speaker 1: so much is happening, so much destruction, and so much
Speaker 1: filth is flying around, floating around. I mean, for you know,
Speaker 1: anyone watching, anyone listening, please don't take this as a tip,
Speaker 1: you know to this is.
Speaker 2: For entertainment purposes, only.
Speaker 1: Entertainments and educational to not do it. No, but wow,
Speaker 1: I mean that must have made your work lot's a
Speaker 1: lot harder as well.
Speaker 2: No, it made it much better better, yes, because there's
Speaker 2: nothing like catastrophes that creates jobs for lawyers because it's
Speaker 2: nothing but disputes afterwards. So as far as is my
Speaker 2: practice is a lawyer, there's nothing that nothing like that,
Speaker 2: because there's always disputes afterwards. Just for example, all the
Speaker 2: construction work done, because almost every home of two or
Speaker 2: three million people were severely damaged and had to have
Speaker 2: repair work done, and disputes occur and litigate it occurs.
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1: For anyone who runs a construction company, those are golden times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a sad truth that you have people, construction
Speaker 2: people from all over the United States rushing to Los
Speaker 2: Angeles right now because of what's apple. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they see a disaster and they get dollar signs
Speaker 1: in their eyes.
Speaker 2: Right, It brings that the worst and the best in people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I got to tell you I saw a lot
Speaker 2: of wonderful things about people during that during thirteen Hardy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, good thing too. And what this is currently
Speaker 1: going on like the latest disaster, It don't it's it's
Speaker 1: getting hard to keep up with what happened now or
Speaker 1: you know who happened now since the whole world is
Speaker 1: in panic, whole world's and kales. But I even saw
Speaker 1: that the Amish came to help and started building affordable homes,
Speaker 1: even at a fraction of the cost and just a
Speaker 1: small fraction of the time that it would take any
Speaker 1: other construction company or government institution to build those homes.
Speaker 1: So that's that's also you know, when you see the
Speaker 1: communities that usually separate themselves from from society, from the
Speaker 1: outside world, when they come to help, they mean well,
Speaker 1: they do good.
Speaker 2: Yes, It's like the seakh community in Houston. There's maybe
Speaker 2: a million South Asian people that live a little Houston
Speaker 2: Greater Houston area and the Sea community is a large
Speaker 2: community within it. Usually they keep themselves separate. But I
Speaker 2: can tell you I was so inspiring to see my
Speaker 2: friends that are risk themselves so many times. I actually
Speaker 2: write about that in the book too. I have Wow,
Speaker 2: a couple of Sea brothers that risk their lives to
Speaker 2: save Maryland, the antagonists of the book during the flood,
Speaker 2: right after she had done something incredibly despicable on that
Speaker 2: of course, of course, right, I mean a psychopath. What
Speaker 2: do you think.
Speaker 1: Would it be? Old Sunshine and ruses? Of course?
Speaker 2: And I got to tell you it made the high
Speaker 2: rise I lived in there mious because I write about
Speaker 2: the high rise in the book. Dude. During the hurricane.
Speaker 2: They're like, you're not killing anybody here, are you? And
Speaker 2: I was like, you don't have to wait and soon.
Speaker 2: Oh man, is there anything that you have not written
Speaker 2: into your books? Well, I must say during the thing
Speaker 2: that shocks me the most about my readers that follow
Speaker 2: me is they can read about people die but don't
Speaker 2: kill an animal. It makes them mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that is That is such a common trope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a miss dog in the second book
Speaker 2: kind of takes over the some of the scenes of
Speaker 2: the book because that's the way dogs are, right, especially
Speaker 2: as the writer when uh, you know, you're writing a
Speaker 2: character and they start becoming more and more dimensional, so
Speaker 2: they start taking over the story and you're like, that's
Speaker 2: not what you're supposed to do in my outline. But
Speaker 2: that's not what they do because now they become alive.
Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, my editors and my
Speaker 2: publishers an't threatening me. Don't you hurt that dog? Don't
Speaker 2: you hurt that dog? As they were reading chapters. Of
Speaker 2: course you'll have to find out yourself is a reader
Speaker 2: or what happens, but that is part of the story.
Speaker 1: It is interesting how we so often seem to attach
Speaker 1: more value to the lives of our of our pets,
Speaker 1: whether they be you know, dogs, cats, hamsters. I've seen
Speaker 1: it in so many, so many movies as well, and
Speaker 1: you'll see so many people say it is like, you know,
Speaker 1: I can I can watch people dying on screen. That
Speaker 1: is perfectly fine. But when a beloved pet, for example,
Speaker 1: is in danger, that's when they're you know, most emotional.
Speaker 1: I guess the greatest example that I know is I
Speaker 1: Am Legends. I believe it is with Will Smith the
Speaker 1: whole like Zombie vir movie, so many people seen at
Speaker 1: the near the final act of the movie when the
Speaker 1: dog does indeed become infected. It broke so many people
Speaker 1: because I don't know, you know, it's his pet, it's
Speaker 1: his companion. And when he you know, blows himself up,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, okay, it's it's a heroic deed, but oh,
Speaker 1: you know the dog and.
Speaker 2: It's so yeah, it's funny. Fact in fact, forgot my
Speaker 2: point on that. But that was that becomes and they
Speaker 2: become a very strong character in these buds. And I
Speaker 2: have a little girl on the book, and it made
Speaker 2: my publishers and editors very nervous, and the story went on,
Speaker 2: but it was a real challenge. But I'll say in
Speaker 2: that book, in the first book Murder for Me, Maryland
Speaker 2: is able to get men to do what she wants.
Speaker 2: This is she is not a beautiful woman, She's just
Speaker 2: an okay looking woman, but she's aided. She's able to
Speaker 2: do it man to do she and seth sets. I
Speaker 2: had so many by readers say how did she get
Speaker 2: men to do that? And why she who she is?
Speaker 2: So I had to work very hard in the next book,
Speaker 2: murder by Storm, to write from her perspective, to explain
Speaker 2: where's she's from, why is she the way she is,
Speaker 2: and how does that work with me? And that was
Speaker 2: one of the real intellectual challenges murder by Storm is
Speaker 2: to write convincingly organically from the perspective of a woman.
Speaker 2: Because I had to answer those questions. I can absolutely
Speaker 2: understand that that's you know, it's tricky too, you know,
Speaker 2: especially in these well more uh, let's say politically correct times.
Speaker 2: As a man, to know right from a woman's perspective,
Speaker 2: or even read from a woman's perspective, it can be
Speaker 2: tricky because men and women, I mean, we are very different,
Speaker 2: we think very different, we're wired.
Speaker 1: It's incredibly different. So, yeah, that's that's difficult, especially when
Speaker 1: your female lead is a psychopath. That's even.
Speaker 2: And it had to be organic, had to be natural.
Speaker 2: So it was I was a lot of rewrites, a
Speaker 2: lot of work. But every book that I write, I
Speaker 2: have some real intellectual challenge because that's how I motivated myself.
Speaker 2: What is my change to go beyond my abilities nets?
Speaker 2: And in that book, it was to write to answer
Speaker 2: the questions from her perspective to a point where the
Speaker 2: reader says, Okay, I get it, I know why I
Speaker 2: sees the way she is. Maybe i'd be that way too.
Speaker 1: Understanding the understanding the villain, empathizing with the villain. That's
Speaker 1: if you are able to write like that, that is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's it's hard, but it's amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but a character that's not a character that's
Speaker 2: just black and white is not interesting to me. I'm
Speaker 2: not interested in that. No, Well, the layers of life
Speaker 2: in a character, it's very hard. It's not done. If
Speaker 2: you can't do.
Speaker 1: That, true, that's true. If if it's all just black
Speaker 1: and white, I mean that's not realistic either. I mean boring, boring, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's no challenge.
Speaker 2: It's not entertaining.
Speaker 1: And we all know people like that in real life
Speaker 1: as well, or we have heard of people like that
Speaker 1: who just you know, try something and succeed right away,
Speaker 1: and it is it irks people when that happens. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone is always you know, trying and fighting for the
Speaker 1: things that they that they want, for the things that
Speaker 1: they need, and then somebody just try something, does something
Speaker 1: and succeeds. I don't like you, you know.
Speaker 2: And in my next book, murder by Trial, that's the
Speaker 2: next book. Coming as to what I'm writing now, have
Speaker 2: you ever read a Confederacy of the Donsins It was
Speaker 2: a Politzerprise winning book. And the piece there is a
Speaker 2: character in that book so unforgettable and so loathsome at
Speaker 2: the same time that I was part of my challenge.
Speaker 2: Can I write a character so multi dimensional and so
Speaker 2: loathsome and at the same time so unforgettable that the
Speaker 2: reader cannot put the book now because they gotta find
Speaker 2: read what's next to this character? That's my challenge. So see,
Speaker 2: I'm going to the next level of trying to write
Speaker 2: a character that's interesting.
Speaker 1: That is a great challenge. Indeed, that is a great challenge. Indeed,
Speaker 1: and you have written at least one short story about
Speaker 1: somebody tried to try to curse you, try to like,
Speaker 1: who do who do curse you? And you said right
Speaker 1: before we started recording that it was actually a funny story.
Speaker 1: Now I have to say, I don't really associate curses
Speaker 1: or being cursed with, you know, funny, unless it's a
Speaker 1: Disney story perhaps, But even that, if we're talking early Disney,
Speaker 1: even that wasn't really funny. So how did how did
Speaker 1: that come to be?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: What did you do that? Well, the other one thought
Speaker 1: it was necessary and appropriate to try and curse you
Speaker 1: because you don't seem like the type of guy who
Speaker 1: deserves a curse.
Speaker 2: To me, Well, you don't know, Lee, That is true.
Speaker 1: That is true.
Speaker 2: I must say I've done so many podcasts no one
Speaker 2: said this question. No one's done that research. All my
Speaker 2: compliments are to you, sir, that you would see that
Speaker 2: and ask me about that. When you first asked me
Speaker 2: before the show, I was a little shocked and very impressed.
Speaker 2: So I just wanted to give you my compliment.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: When in meetings in Huston, Texas, when the oil prices crashed,
Speaker 2: people found themselves underwater in their mortgages, and one of
Speaker 2: the ways people would solve that problem is they would
Speaker 2: burn their house down and try to collect the old
Speaker 2: shirts pay off the mortgage classic And I was hired
Speaker 2: by insurance companies to investigate the arsons proved that the
Speaker 2: insurance had burned their house down, and then the insurance
Speaker 2: company wouldn't put So we're talking about very desperate people
Speaker 2: in financial trouble, so desperate that they would burn their
Speaker 2: house down, and I was the one trying to destroy
Speaker 2: their plans. So that is why I was someone they
Speaker 2: wanted to do that too. Now I didn't know Houston
Speaker 2: is very close to New Orleans. After Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans,
Speaker 2: a lot of the population of New Orleans moved to Houston.
Speaker 2: Almost has one hundred year connection with New Orleans inlo
Speaker 2: So Houston and New Orleans is very connected. And so
Speaker 2: I had I had a case where a lady had
Speaker 2: allegedly done down her house and I was hired to
Speaker 2: investigate it, and she was very frightened. Now, one of
Speaker 2: the things I didn't know about Voodoo and the Houston area.
Speaker 2: It's not called vooboo, it's called hugo. They pronounced it differently.
Speaker 2: It's called Houdin here, not Boody. And so they actually
Speaker 2: made a doll of me and somehow stole some possession
Speaker 2: of mine to make it a part of the doll
Speaker 2: is that's part of it. But their problems, their their
Speaker 2: problem was, I didn't know about it, So how are
Speaker 2: they gonna scare me into not investigating if I don't
Speaker 2: know about it? Right? Because because whatever it is about
Speaker 2: who do it really is to scare someone. So they
Speaker 2: had they had to figure out, how are they going
Speaker 2: to let me know that she's has a dollar means
Speaker 2: he's doing who did? So she actually had one of
Speaker 2: her friends call me at the office one day. And
Speaker 2: this is when I was young, very smart, eleochy, brass lawyer.
Speaker 2: All the stereotypes of a young nineteen eighties lawyer was
Speaker 2: every stereotype, like if you want, if you've ever watched
Speaker 2: the movie American Psycho, there's brash stuff in that movie
Speaker 2: that we were doing. They put in that movie. It's
Speaker 2: like I can tell young men now, yeah we did that,
Speaker 2: And they're like, really, I mean it's.
Speaker 1: The nineteen eighties. Everything everything goes in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2: It was crazy, not from the world. We look at now.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so she called me and she was very frightened.
Speaker 2: She was like, are you alone? I need to tell
Speaker 2: you something very dangerous. She was sad. I did very
Speaker 2: worried boy. She said, so and so had made up
Speaker 2: hoodoo do all of you and you're in great danger
Speaker 2: and you need to know about it. She went on
Speaker 2: and on about the danger I was in. Well, I've
Speaker 2: been married forty and I got married on Friday the thirteen?
Speaker 2: Am I just superstitious? Mike Michael said into office. I'm
Speaker 2: just a little stiffish. But so you get married on
Speaker 2: Friday the thirteenth, you're not superstitious. So I was who
Speaker 2: I was then, the brash young lawyer. So she when
Speaker 2: finished her whole pitch, so I would be scared, so
Speaker 2: I wouldn't investigate. My first response was, when she finishes,
Speaker 2: can I buy that doll from her? Because I want
Speaker 2: that doll. I would left hand that on my desk.
Speaker 2: She would She just hung up on me. Really yeah wow,
Speaker 2: because it didn't work right because I wasn't just afraid.
Speaker 1: But that sucks, all right.
Speaker 2: So the joke is that I wanted to buy the
Speaker 2: doll when they finished doing who did because not because
Speaker 2: I was scared, not because I wanted to destroyed her,
Speaker 2: because I wanted to, hope put it on my desk
Speaker 2: because I thought that that would be so great. Years later,
Speaker 2: someone shot two twenty two bullet hose through my conference window,
Speaker 2: and when the office was going to fix them, I said, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want you to replace the window. I want
Speaker 2: you to just put that plastic stuff and seal the host.
Speaker 2: I want those bullet hose to stay there, because whenever
Speaker 2: I had new clients come in to talk to me,
Speaker 2: I always would showing the bullet O. See you're hiring
Speaker 2: the lawyer that even gets shot at.
Speaker 1: Wow, So you were using it for bragging rights.
Speaker 2: Really exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean I get that. I get that. And just
Speaker 1: having a whodo or who doo doll of yourself on
Speaker 1: your desk, I mean, yeah, that's that's a good way
Speaker 1: to show to clients or potential clients like see, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean business, I am business. I mean I have
Speaker 1: proof right here on my desk. I'm doing such a
Speaker 1: such a good job. I'm being so thorough that people
Speaker 1: are even trying to curse me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it. I never got that doll though.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a shame. Yeah, that's a shame would be
Speaker 1: in I was thinking like it would be like a
Speaker 1: cool Christmas ornament as well to like to hang up
Speaker 1: in the tree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my wife really doesn't agree with my dark sense
Speaker 2: of humor about It's got really into my dark sense
Speaker 2: of him where It's like when I was writing Murder
Speaker 2: for Me and I was writing about Maryland. If you're
Speaker 2: an author, you've become buried in your characters. You're obsessed
Speaker 2: with your characters. That's the only way they can become alive.
Speaker 2: And I remember what actually, when I first started writing it,
Speaker 2: she had a different name. So in my sleep one night,
Speaker 2: she came to me in my sleep. I know this
Speaker 2: sounds weird, but it's shirt. It's like she grabbed me
Speaker 2: by the collar and said, that's not my name. My
Speaker 2: name is Maryland. So I woke up the next morning,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I was talking about life. I said, Maryland
Speaker 2: came to me in my sleep last night, and she's like,
Speaker 2: who the hell is Maryland? Who are you dreaming about?
Speaker 2: I said, this is my character, the character, the antagonist,
Speaker 2: the psychopath in my books. She came to me, Majory.
Speaker 2: She was like, don't talk about that anymore. You creaked
Speaker 2: me out. So she doesn't really agree with my dark sense.
Speaker 1: And yet you have been married for all that time,
Speaker 1: so there must be something about you.
Speaker 2: I can la.
Speaker 1: That's always good, That is always good, but like a wow,
Speaker 1: your character actually no, your character actually came to you
Speaker 1: in your your dreams. So she she is alife in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's been with me for Lawrence. She went
Speaker 2: with me since I really put the two people that
Speaker 2: i'd actually met into one character and started writing, you know,
Speaker 2: character development about her. In fact, when in the character development,
Speaker 2: which has never been published, she was just the shadow.
Speaker 2: She was just a shadow for a long time and
Speaker 2: a developed as a character. Shelley took woman form, you know,
Speaker 2: several chapters later in the character development that I was writing,
Speaker 2: and that was only in my own mind. Is that
Speaker 2: developed who she was as a dimension? Don't care?
Speaker 1: Okay, Wow, that's amazing. I mean that's like, that's that
Speaker 1: just means that you're a.
Speaker 2: Great weird.
Speaker 1: Because I'm a weird now, dude, that too. I suppose
Speaker 1: your words, not mine, But no, that's that's that's special.
Speaker 1: That means that you have I mean, that's it's something
Speaker 1: that I I touched on another another podcast a while
Speaker 1: ago actually with a friend of mine, was more like
Speaker 1: about about gods and stuff, because you there are so
Speaker 1: many well made up gods, if you will, from video
Speaker 1: games and books and all of that. And I am
Speaker 1: really wondering, you know, so much time and energy has
Speaker 1: been spent into creating, into developing a backstory so that
Speaker 1: you know, it can have followers and such like I
Speaker 1: do wonder could you perhaps say that because of all
Speaker 1: the time and energy and effort that has been put
Speaker 1: into it, have they become real gods? And I guess
Speaker 1: with your with your character with Marilyn, you have put
Speaker 1: so much time and efforts and energy into her as
Speaker 1: a character, into her character developments, even going so far
Speaker 1: as to flesh out her backstory, she became real.
Speaker 2: You said, like you read Lunch?
Speaker 1: Do you read LUNCHI I am familiar with with his
Speaker 1: sound like the Nisch's writings.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what you said, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I do like that side of a philosophy.
Speaker 1: I do like that side of the more more occult thinking.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and Nietzschi comes. You know, Nietzsche is basically
Speaker 2: based upon uh here Studios were almost contemporaneous.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Nietzsche, if I'm not mistaken, was a yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was a student the Freud, wasn't he.
Speaker 2: No, God, Young was a student of toys Young was.
Speaker 1: Yes, that was it.
Speaker 2: Yes, In fact they were very close. And then they
Speaker 2: had a terrible falling out over Young's shadow. Yeah, believes
Speaker 2: because Freud didn't believe it. Subconscious they and totally disagreement
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, Freud had other things on his mind.
Speaker 2: N was more of the right. Nietzsche was more of
Speaker 2: the German philosophy st And that's why I read dose
Speaker 2: Stanski every year because Doski was the Dosski was trying
Speaker 2: to count or argue against Nietzsche, but he did it
Speaker 2: through fiction, not nonfiction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean I am I am Dutch, So
Speaker 1: you know those works are are very well known here.
Speaker 2: That where you're lucky they're not here. That's a good
Speaker 2: thing about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean just European philosophers in general, both
Speaker 1: Dutch and German have come up with some great works.
Speaker 1: And there are a couple of content creators that I
Speaker 1: follow that really pull from Nietzsche, from Young, and I
Speaker 1: like those I like book wise, I have read a
Speaker 1: lot of Julius Evela his work so more traditionalism, which
Speaker 1: I also found find very very fascinating. Those are their hearts.
Speaker 1: They're hard reads.
Speaker 2: But yes, if I read too much Nietzsche, I get depressed.
Speaker 2: So I can read it for a while, then I
Speaker 2: have to leave it alone for six lives. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: leaves you.
Speaker 1: I do hope he is able to come back. It
Speaker 1: seems our guest has has disappeared. Let's see, I'm hoping
Speaker 1: he can't come back. Ye, I'm good. We lost each stuff.
Speaker 1: Let's see if I can because I was in contact
Speaker 1: with his his agent, are you agent to get him
Speaker 1: on the show? So I am kind of hoping that
Speaker 1: I can find just contact info for for Russell himself.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess in the meantime, and we're before editing,
Speaker 1: but we're about fifteen minutes in. Okay, is he yes?
Speaker 1: You disconnected for a for a moment there? Can you
Speaker 1: can you hear me? Dear? This doesn't happened in a while.
Speaker 1: Actually that my me or my guest is now, Yes, yes, sir,
Speaker 1: I can, I guess we're I'm we're touching. Sorry we
Speaker 1: lost and then he gets lost again. Well, it seems
Speaker 1: that the link is still working at the very least,
Speaker 1: so that is that is good?
Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
Speaker 1: I guess In the meantime, i'll I'll promote some of
Speaker 1: his things. You can find his works and his books
Speaker 1: through his website Russelllittleauthor dot com. I will share my
Speaker 1: screen real quick just to show it. Here we go,
Speaker 1: so for everyone listening, Russell are you s S E
Speaker 1: L L.
Speaker 2: Little? Just you know Little.
Speaker 1: Author dot com has mont won multiple awards, is working
Speaker 1: on his new book, of course, great picture. Let's see
Speaker 1: O see gut a are you are you back? Can
Speaker 1: you hear me? Can you see me?
Speaker 2: Yes? I am, I'm so sorry. I think they were
Speaker 2: leaving each other at least it wait until the show
Speaker 2: was almost down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's uh, it actually has has happened before that.
Speaker 1: My guests and I were touching on so many, so
Speaker 1: many great things that the the ether couldn't handle it
Speaker 1: and just you know, either throw through me out or
Speaker 1: threw my guests out. But it hasn't happened in a
Speaker 1: while actually, so I guess it's pretty special that it
Speaker 1: it happened again.
Speaker 2: Wow, I've really enjoyed it. I don't get to talk
Speaker 2: about Nietzsche and Young and who did very often on
Speaker 2: the podcast, and I've really got a day. I've really
Speaker 2: enjoyed the heck out of it.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you. I mean you're you're always
Speaker 1: welcome to to come back on, of course, and I will.
Speaker 1: I will definitely check out your your books. They they
Speaker 1: sound like, you know, like an amazing series, like amazing writing.
Speaker 1: And I've gotten very very curious about about Marilyn. I
Speaker 1: have to say she she sounds terrible, but like a
Speaker 1: character that's that you want to get caught. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: we'll see if she can get got that sounds that
Speaker 1: sounds promising, sounds very sounds very promising. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: I never I didn't imagine we go into the direction
Speaker 1: of Nietzsche and Young and who doo and it's it's
Speaker 1: all very very diverse. But yeah, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on. This has been has been really really great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I did, uh, you know, show the people and
Speaker 1: told people a little before you like in the in
Speaker 1: the the time that you were trying to come back,
Speaker 1: but I could.
Speaker 2: See you, you just couldn't see me. So I appreciate
Speaker 2: that so much.
Speaker 1: Okay, that is interesting but yeah, where may may the
Speaker 1: people find your your work? Where can they buy the
Speaker 1: books to read about Maryland and to to read about you,
Speaker 1: potentially possibly getting who do Voodoos Cursed?
Speaker 2: Okay, so my books are on Amazon. If they want
Speaker 2: to read about who do more about me, they can
Speaker 2: go to Russell Little author dot com, but not big
Speaker 2: but little Russell Little author dot com. If they want
Speaker 2: to know what I'm doing day to day as a writer,
Speaker 2: they can go to Facebook Russell's stories. Like I posted
Speaker 2: something about this show before I got on it, I'll
Speaker 2: have something different about the show afterwards. If you will
Speaker 2: send me the link, I will post it all over
Speaker 2: the players.
Speaker 1: That is much appreciated. I have a backlog of content
Speaker 1: still to release. What I can I can make some
Speaker 1: rooin room in between. I can, Yeah, I can. I
Speaker 1: can do some of my own WHODO and move it
Speaker 1: up in the move it up in the list so
Speaker 1: it releases a little earlier. I can. I can definitely
Speaker 1: do that. So yeah, thank you for your amazing, amazing stories.
Speaker 1: I mean this was just a drop in the bucket,
Speaker 1: of course, And thank you.
Speaker 2: For your conversation. I got to tell you I would
Speaker 2: buy you a beer you're cold. I would love to
Speaker 2: talk more.
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, thank you very much. As I said, you're
Speaker 1: always welcome to come back on to to talk so more,
Speaker 1: to you know, talk about different passions, projects, to talk
Speaker 1: about Nietzsche, to talk about young, talk about.
Speaker 2: Maybe next time whatever, sorry I said, maybe next time
Speaker 2: we'll talk about Priest.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'd have to catch up on his work. I am,
Speaker 1: I am familiar with it. There's so many great European
Speaker 1: authors that I still have to read, so many European
Speaker 1: philosophers that I still have to get familiar with. But
Speaker 1: that's that's a full time job on.
Speaker 2: It so own.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm just gonna, you know, close it out
Speaker 1: for myself. So for everyone watching, everyone listening, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I hope you enjoyed this as much as
Speaker 1: we both did. And if you did, do leave something
Speaker 1: nice in the comments. So what do you think about Marilyn, Like,
Speaker 1: do you do you hope she's she will get caught
Speaker 1: If you do, you know better buy his books and
Speaker 1: find out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, of.
Speaker 1: Course I leave alike on this video. Suddenly something nice
Speaker 1: in the comments. Make sure you are subscribed to not
Speaker 1: miss a single single bits, not a single episode, and
Speaker 1: do ring that notification bell to get notified whenever I
Speaker 1: go live again, whenever I go live with Zero Lath
Speaker 1: or with any other guest that I find worthy of,
Speaker 1: you know, just doing a live show with I can't
Speaker 1: do it all the time. But and of course when
Speaker 1: a new episode drops off the Greer and Pagans Podcast.
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Speaker 1: If you are serving the web, why not also go
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Speaker 1: new episode with a new amazing guest on the Grand
Speaker 1: Pagans Podcast.
Speaker 5: See yeah, this was yet another amazing episode of the
Speaker 5: Greyhorned Pagans Podcast.
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