Speaker 1: This is episode one hundred and twenty of the Christian
Speaker 1: Research Journal Reads Podcast. Did David Rape Bathsheba? By Clay
Speaker 1: Jones and Jean E. Jones. This article was published exclusively
Speaker 1: online at equipped dot org for the Christian Research Journal,
Speaker 1: Volume forty seven, number four in twenty twenty four. This
Speaker 1: article is in our Viewpoint column. Viewpoint articles address relevant
Speaker 1: contemporary issues in discernment and apologetics from a particular perspective
Speaker 1: that is usually not shared by all Christians, with the
Speaker 1: intended result that Christians thinking on that issue will be
Speaker 1: stimulated and enhanced, whether or not readers end up agreeing
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Speaker 2: Did David Rape Bathsheba? By Clay Jones and Jene E.
Speaker 2: Jones Read by Christina Winterstellar quote, David didn't fornicate. David
Speaker 2: raped And if you understand the power dynamics, and you
Speaker 2: understand the Hebrew, and you look at the levitical examples
Speaker 2: and discussion of rape, and you understand what Nathan is
Speaker 2: saying in his parable it is abundantly clear from that
Speaker 2: text that David raped unquote, so said Rachel Denhollander, the
Speaker 2: American Olympic team gymnast who was first to publicly accuse
Speaker 2: team physician Larry Nash of sexual assault. She is empathetic
Speaker 2: that rape is the only evidential and logical explanation of
Speaker 2: what happened between David and Bathsheba. Sadly, den Hollander endured
Speaker 2: a lot of sexual abuse in her life, and we
Speaker 2: hurt for her, but we disagree with her contention that
Speaker 2: David raped Bathsheba. Den Hollander is of course not alone,
Speaker 2: especially since the advent of the hashtag me too movement,
Speaker 2: There are many who assert that David rape Bathsheba. But
Speaker 2: we are going to argue that the evidence doesn't support
Speaker 2: that contention, arguments that Bathsheba was raped. We begin with
Speaker 2: an examination of the arguments employed by those who say
Speaker 2: David did rape Bathsheba. Unequal power dynamics, remove the ability
Speaker 2: to consent. Notice that the first thing Den Hollander says
Speaker 2: after quote David raped unquote was quote if you un
Speaker 2: understand the power dynamics unquote. Biola professor Carmen joy Eimes
Speaker 2: writes in Christianity Today. Quote Those arguing that David committed
Speaker 2: adultery often try to pin blame on Bathsheba for bathing
Speaker 2: in public, thereby seducing David, while those arguing that David
Speaker 2: raped her point to the uneven power dynamics between them,
Speaker 2: unquote emphasis added. Bonnie Christian, an editor at Christianity Today,
Speaker 2: agrees quote. Perhaps most compelling beyond these textual details are
Speaker 2: the broader power dynamics in play. David is king, Bathsheba
Speaker 2: cannot reject his uninvited attention unquote emphasis added. Former Baylor
Speaker 2: University deans David E. Garland and Diana R. Garland explain
Speaker 2: the power dynamic quote. Perhaps she was flattered by his attention.
Speaker 2: He was a handsome man. Perhaps she found herself attracted
Speaker 2: to him. Even if she was flattered by the attention
Speaker 2: of the king. However, and even if she found him attractive,
Speaker 2: she was not responsible for what happened, since consent was
Speaker 2: impossible given her powerless position. David, in essence, raped her.
Speaker 2: Rape means to have sex against the will without the
Speaker 2: consent of another, and she did not have the power
Speaker 2: to consent, even if there was no physical struggle. Even
Speaker 2: if she gave in to him, it was rape unquote
Speaker 2: emphasis added. Notice the Garlands wrote that Bathsheba was so
Speaker 2: powerless that even quote consent was impossible unquote. We could
Speaker 2: quote others who argue this way, but the point is made.
Speaker 2: The David raped apologists appeal to uneven quote power dynamics unquote.
Speaker 2: Aimes judges that David had quote come to believe that
Speaker 2: because he has power, he can have whatever he wants
Speaker 2: when he wants. Emphasis and original. And regarding Bathsheba, i'ms
Speaker 2: Wright's quote David summons her, does she have a choice?
Speaker 2: Her husband and her father are both soldiers under his command.
Speaker 2: No one can refuse the king unquote. In short, Bathsheba
Speaker 2: was powerless and was therefore raped. This uneven power dynamic
Speaker 2: talks springs from contemporary critical theory or the less precise
Speaker 2: cultural or neo Marxism. Neil Shenvy and Pat Sawyer, in
Speaker 2: their excellent book Critical Dilemma, The Rise of Critical Theories
Speaker 2: and Social Justice Ideology, explain that contemporary critical theory is
Speaker 2: composed of four principles. The first is that quote, society
Speaker 2: is divided into dominant, privileged oppressor groups and subordinate marginalized
Speaker 2: oppressed groups unquote. Second quote, oppression and domination are not
Speaker 2: limited to cruelty or overt acts of injustice, but also
Speaker 2: include the ways in which dominant social groups impose their values, traditions, norms,
Speaker 2: and ways of being and doing on society such that
Speaker 2: they are accepted as natural, normal, or even God ordained unquote.
Speaker 2: Third quote, The lived experience of minoritized and oppressed groups
Speaker 2: rivals and at times is prioritized over objective evidence and
Speaker 2: reason when it comes to understanding the world unquote. Fourth quote.
Speaker 2: Social justice is concerned with the transformation of society via
Speaker 2: the emancipation and empowerment of marginalized and disenfranchised groups unquote,
Speaker 2: although they may not realize it. The David raped apologists
Speaker 2: employ the first two principles. King David had all the
Speaker 2: power and Bathsheba had none. David's power was so pervasive
Speaker 2: and Bathsheba's power nonexistent that she didn't have the ability
Speaker 2: to decline, or, as we saw earlier, she didn't even
Speaker 2: have the power to consent to David's request. Author Sheila
Speaker 2: Ray Grigory writes, quote, when someone cannot say no, then
Speaker 2: they also cannot say yes. That means consent is not possible.
Speaker 2: That means it is rape unquote emphasis and original. Envy
Speaker 2: and Sawyer point out how this affects the David raped
Speaker 2: apologist's interpretation of scripture. Quote. It places the authority to
Speaker 2: determine the meaning of the text with the receiver of
Speaker 2: the text versus the giver of the text. Consequently, it
Speaker 2: substitutes an analysis of power dynamics for exegesis unquote, emphasis added. Otherwise,
Speaker 2: did David rape all of his wives except for King
Speaker 2: Saul's daughter Michael because of the tremendous power differential between them. Now,
Speaker 2: of course, we do agree that miners can't give consent
Speaker 2: to adults because miners do not understand the significance of
Speaker 2: their actions nor the consequences of having sex with adults.
Speaker 2: But this is different. As mentioned above, i'mes the Garlands
Speaker 2: and den Hollander are saying that even for an adult,
Speaker 2: consent is impossible if a very powerful person asks for
Speaker 2: sex from a less powerful person. But does this make sense?
Speaker 2: Are we really to believe that an adult can't tell
Speaker 2: a more powerful adult, even a much more powerful adult quote,
Speaker 2: please don't do this unquote or quote. I really don't
Speaker 2: want to have sex with you unquote or quote, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't do this. I'm a married woman unquote, and so on.
Speaker 2: That would certainly be considered a lack of consent. Our
Speaker 2: i'ms the Garlands and Den Hollander saying it's impossible or
Speaker 2: unwise for these words to come out of the mouth
Speaker 2: of someone significantly less powerful than the person and seeking sex. Here,
Speaker 2: we're going to employ a reductio ad absurdum, the carrying
Speaker 2: of something to an absurd extreme to show its folly.
Speaker 2: Suppose Bethsheba was twenty nine years old. Suppose she was
Speaker 2: incredibly lonely, that she was also a very sexual person,
Speaker 2: that she had fantasized for months, maybe even years, about
Speaker 2: having sex with King David, That she had noticed that
Speaker 2: he walks around his rooftop at twilight, that she was
Speaker 2: bathing completely naked and was watching for David to appear
Speaker 2: on the rooftop, and that when David did appear and
Speaker 2: look down and saw her completely naked, she gave him
Speaker 2: a quote, come hither, look unquote. Suppose also that after
Speaker 2: she arrives at the palace, he asks if he can
Speaker 2: kiss her, and she drops her robe and passionately kisses him. Now,
Speaker 2: of course, we aren't saying that any of these things happened.
Speaker 2: This is a reductio ad absurd to point out that
Speaker 2: it was possible for Bathsheba to have given her consent.
Speaker 2: To say that if those things had happened, that at
Speaker 2: that point she still had not given her consent is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The only way one could argue in the situation that
Speaker 2: she had not given her consent is if one already
Speaker 2: defined consent as impossible. But that commits the fallacy of
Speaker 2: circular reasoning. David should have been off to war, not
Speaker 2: in Jerusalem. The David in Bathsheba saga begins with Second
Speaker 2: Samuel eleven one quote in the spring of the year,
Speaker 2: the time when kings go out to battle, David sent
Speaker 2: Joab and his servants with him and all Israel, and
Speaker 2: they ravaged the Ammonites and besieged Rabah. But David remained
Speaker 2: at Jerusalem. Unquote. About this the David raped. Apologists claimed
Speaker 2: that David wasn't supposed to be in Jerusalem in the
Speaker 2: first place. As Ames puts it, quote, he ought to
Speaker 2: be at war with his men, but nevertheless there he
Speaker 2: is bored unquote. Imes also writes quote David fails to
Speaker 2: take the mission seriously. He doesn't lead the troops in battle. Instead,
Speaker 2: he stays home and prays on the war widow next
Speaker 2: door unquote. Similarly, Tara Lee Cobble, in her popular study
Speaker 2: guide The Bible Recap, a one year guide to reading
Speaker 2: and understanding the entire Bible, writes that David staying home
Speaker 2: is quote exposing a gap in his leadership passivity. He
Speaker 2: shirks responsibility unquote. Although the passage doesn't say that Bathsheba
Speaker 2: was bathing on the roof, Kabble then writes that David
Speaker 2: quote sees Bathsheba bathing on a roof, which is where
Speaker 2: people bathe because rainwater collects there. She's keeping God's command,
Speaker 2: purifying herself unquote. Kabble writes that, quote, we have no
Speaker 2: reason to think she's trying to seduce David. She likely
Speaker 2: assumes the king is off to war like he is
Speaker 2: supposed to be, since that's where her husband Uriah is
Speaker 2: unquote emphasis added. In other words, both i'ms and Cobble
Speaker 2: and a host of others say that David is in
Speaker 2: sin prior to even seeing Bathsheba because it was his
Speaker 2: duty to be elsewhere. But as Robert D. Bergen points
Speaker 2: out in his commentary first Second Samuel quote, the King's
Speaker 2: absence from the battlefield at this time should not be
Speaker 2: understood as dereliction of duty. David had previously remained in
Speaker 2: Jerusalem when the Ammonites were attacked Compare Second Samuel ten seven. Furthermore,
Speaker 2: at some point in David's military career, quite possibly prior
Speaker 2: to the events of this passage, David's men had pleaded
Speaker 2: with him to avoid an active role in military campaigns
Speaker 2: compare twenty one seventeen, out of concern for the King's
Speaker 2: safety and the best interests of the nation unquote. Some
Speaker 2: might think it odd for Bergen to suggest that what
Speaker 2: occurred in Second Samuel twenty one were David's men quote
Speaker 2: pleaded with him to avoid an active role in military
Speaker 2: campaigns unquote occurred prior to David staying home from battle
Speaker 2: ten seven eleven one. But chapters twenty one through twenty
Speaker 2: four are not chronological. They list notable events without telling
Speaker 2: the reader when they took place. J Robert Vanoy in
Speaker 2: the Cornerstone Biblical Commentary, provides further detail about David not
Speaker 2: going to battle quote at the beginning of his reign,
Speaker 2: David sent Joeab on important missions while he remained at
Speaker 2: home Second Samuel two twelve through thirty two, three, twenty
Speaker 2: through twenty three. In addition, there is also no indication
Speaker 2: that David fought in all the battles against Edom First
Speaker 2: King eleven fourteen through sixteen, First Chronicles eighteen twelve through thirteen,
Speaker 2: Psalm sixty, title, and in the immediate context, David had
Speaker 2: sent Joe Ab and Abeshi to engage the Aramians and
Speaker 2: Ammonites while he remained in Jerusalem Sewond Samuel ten seven
Speaker 2: through fourteen. It was not until the development of a
Speaker 2: more serious threat by a larger Aramian coalition that David
Speaker 2: himself accompanied his troops against them ten seventeen through nineteen.
Speaker 2: But the military operation in view in this particular Passage
Speaker 2: eleven to one was not a continuation of normal combat,
Speaker 2: but rather the siege of a city, Rabah, which would
Speaker 2: likely last for a long time, and not something for
Speaker 2: which David's presence was necessary. So while it is clear
Speaker 2: that David's remaining in Jerusalem provided the occasion for his
Speaker 2: sinful behavior that ensued, it does not seem warranted to
Speaker 2: con clue that this in itself should be regarded as
Speaker 2: a culpable act unquote. Indeed, the bottom line is that
Speaker 2: those who accuse David of a dereliction of duty are
Speaker 2: reading into the text. What isn't there Bathsheba's bathing was pious.
Speaker 2: Ims writes that quote, this was no ordinary bath either.
Speaker 2: She was purifying herself ritually following menstruation Tewod Samuel eleven four.
Speaker 2: This practice indicates that she was a pious keeper of
Speaker 2: Israelite purity law. Unquote. This proves she was pious. We laughed.
Speaker 2: Maybe piety had something to do with it. But what
Speaker 2: woman doesn't want to bathe when her period is over?
Speaker 2: But there's more. Proverbs Chapter seven is entirely about a
Speaker 2: married woman seducing a man, even a potential king, since
Speaker 2: Solomon wrote this to his sons. The seductress says to
Speaker 2: him in verse fourteen, quote, I had to offer sacrifice,
Speaker 2: and today I have paid my vows unquote. About this verse,
Speaker 2: Dwayne A. Garrett in the New American Commentary writes, quote,
Speaker 2: she uses the pretext of religious devotion in order to
Speaker 2: assuage the young man's conscience about going to her unquote.
Speaker 2: In other words, she is assuming her conquests that she's pious. Now,
Speaker 2: we absolutely are not saying that Bathsheba told David that
Speaker 2: her bathing was ceremonial to pursue him. But unless she explained,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have known why she was bathing. Imes also
Speaker 2: writes that quote the text never says that she was
Speaker 2: naked unquote true, but neither does the text say she
Speaker 2: wasn't naked. Absence of evidence is an evidence of absence. Now, again,
Speaker 2: we're not arguing that Bathsheba was trying to seduce David.
Speaker 2: We're just trying to separate fact from assumption. Nathan blames
Speaker 2: only David. One of the major arguments that David raped
Speaker 2: apology raise is that the prophet Nathan blames only David.
Speaker 2: In Second Samuel twelve one through seven, we read quote
Speaker 2: and the Lord sent Nathan to David. He came to
Speaker 2: him and said to him there were two men in
Speaker 2: a certain city, the one rich and the other poor.
Speaker 2: The rich man had very many flocks and herds, but
Speaker 2: the poor man had nothing but one little ewe lamb,
Speaker 2: which he had bought. And he brought it up, and
Speaker 2: it grew up with him and with his children. It
Speaker 2: used to eat of his morsel and drink from his
Speaker 2: cup and lie in his arms, and it was like
Speaker 2: a daughter to him. Now there came a traveler to
Speaker 2: the rich man, and he was unwilling to take one
Speaker 2: of his own flock or herd to prepare for the
Speaker 2: guest who had come to him. But he took the
Speaker 2: poor man's lamb and prepared it for the man who
Speaker 2: had come to him. Then David's anger was greatly kindled
Speaker 2: against the man, and he said to Nathan, as the
Speaker 2: Lord lives, the man who has done this deserves to die.
Speaker 2: And I'll restore the lamb fourfold because he did this thing,
Speaker 2: and because he had no pity. Nathan said to David,
Speaker 2: you are the man unquote. So i'ms writes quote for me.
Speaker 2: The clincher is this the narrator is unequivocal in blaming
Speaker 2: David second Samuel eleven twenty seven. The prophet Nathan is
Speaker 2: unequivocal in blaming David second Samuel twelve one through twelve,
Speaker 2: and Bathsheba is never chastised unquote. There are several problems
Speaker 2: with this reasoning. First, Nathan went to see David, the
Speaker 2: King of Israel, the anointed one from whom the savior
Speaker 2: of the world would come. That Nathan didn't mention Bathsheba
Speaker 2: having guilt doesn't mean she had none. Again, absence of
Speaker 2: evidence is an evidence of absence. Second, there's no doubt
Speaker 2: that even if Bathsheba was trying to seduce David, he
Speaker 2: still by far had the greater sin. David should have
Speaker 2: at the very least looked away. How silly would it
Speaker 2: sound while Nathan was rebuking David if David said, quote, yeah,
Speaker 2: but Bathsheba was flirting with me unquote. Third, writing that
Speaker 2: Bathsheba was quote never chastised unquote assumes too much. Most
Speaker 2: of the time, when people sin, their only form of
Speaker 2: rebuke comes from their guilty conscience. It also assumes that
Speaker 2: the loss of her child wasn't chastisement. In Second Samuel twelve, fifteen,
Speaker 2: eighteen through nineteen, we read quote, and the Lord afflicted
Speaker 2: the child that Uriah's wife bore to David, and he
Speaker 2: became sick. On the seventh day, the child died, and
Speaker 2: the servants of David were afraid to tell him that
Speaker 2: the child was dead. But when David saw that his
Speaker 2: servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was
Speaker 2: dead unquote. Bathsheba may not be mentioned in Nathan's rebuke
Speaker 2: to David. She wasn't present. He was the king ing
Speaker 2: of Israel after all, and certainly did commit a gargantuan
Speaker 2: sin in orchestrating Uriah's death and at the very least
Speaker 2: committing adultery. But the punishment inflicted by the Lord would
Speaker 2: have affected Bathsheba more profoundly. Imes writes this off as quote, yes,
Speaker 2: she loses her son, but that loss is never characterized
Speaker 2: as her punishment. She suffers for David's sin, as subjects
Speaker 2: always do when their leader is recalcitrant. Unquote. Quote, yes,
Speaker 2: she loses her son unquote. Wow, that's a huge understatement
Speaker 2: of the emotional trauma of losing her firstborn son, akin
Speaker 2: to the old joke. Quote Other than that, how did
Speaker 2: you like the play, missus Lincoln? Unquote, Bathsheba carried that
Speaker 2: baby to term and then would have immediately started nursing him.
Speaker 2: That would have affected her significantly more than David. We
Speaker 2: have experienced several miscarriages, and although they were very sad
Speaker 2: to Clay, they were devastating to Jean, her firstborn son,
Speaker 2: whom she would have been nursing died in her arms. Further,
Speaker 2: if the lord wanted, the omniscient, omnipotent lord certainly could
Speaker 2: have exacted a punishment that would hurt only David. But
Speaker 2: while David beseeched the lord end quote fasted and went
Speaker 2: in and lay all night on the ground unquote, Second
Speaker 2: Samuel twelve sixteen, and so didn't even know when his
Speaker 2: child had died. Bathsheba would have nursed and watched her
Speaker 2: firstborn child die in her arms, how devastating for her.
Speaker 2: And then when the child had died, we read in
Speaker 2: verse twenty four, quote, then David comforted his wife Bathsheba,
Speaker 2: and went into her and lay with her, and she
Speaker 2: bore a son, and he called his name Solomon unquote.
Speaker 2: If David had not only had her husband killed, but
Speaker 2: actually raped her, and then the Lord killed her child
Speaker 2: because of David's raping her, it's hard to imagine what
Speaker 2: comforting words David might tell her while they were again
Speaker 2: having sex. Fourth, after David impregnated Bathsheba and had her
Speaker 2: husband killed. Second Samuel eleven twenty seven says, quote, the
Speaker 2: thing that David had done displeased the lord unquote. But
Speaker 2: whether David's sex with Bathsheba was rape or adultery, it
Speaker 2: would still be true that it would displease the Lord.
Speaker 2: Bathsheba's name isn't even mentioned. Instead, the narrator writes, quote,
Speaker 2: the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife had born
Speaker 2: to David unquote, Second Samuel twelve fifteen. Bergen observes, quote
Speaker 2: the sober reality that this child was the product of
Speaker 2: a sinful union is highlighted by the fact that his
Speaker 2: mother was referred to as Euryah's wife. Immediately the newborn
Speaker 2: son became ill unquote. Bathsheba's name isn't mentioned, and her
Speaker 2: firstborn child is struck down. Nathan is rebuking David. If
Speaker 2: he had been addressing Bathsheba, whether in David's presence or not,
Speaker 2: he might have chosen his words quite differently. David sent
Speaker 2: servants who quote took unquote her. Second Samuel eleven four
Speaker 2: reports quote, So David sent messengers and took her, and
Speaker 2: she came to him, and he lay with her unquote.
Speaker 2: Pastor John Piper comments about this quote. He didn't invite her,
Speaker 2: he didn't woo her, he didn't lure her, he didn't
Speaker 2: trick her. He took her. That's what the text says
Speaker 2: he took her. In other words, the description is of
Speaker 2: a completely one sided, powerful exertion of his desire, with
Speaker 2: no reckoning with hers unquote. Piper's not alone. Tara Lee
Speaker 2: Cobble writes, quote, as she's being obedient, arm guards show
Speaker 2: up at her door and bring her to David's palace unquote. Similarly,
Speaker 2: Paul Carter in The Gospel Coalition Canada writes, quote, David
Speaker 2: sent armed guards to bring one of his subjects into
Speaker 2: his bed. In every civilized country in the world, that
Speaker 2: is considered rape unquote quote armed guards unquote. Wow. The
Speaker 2: Hebrew word means quote a messenger an angel unquote, and
Speaker 2: of the more than fifty English translations of that verse
Speaker 2: in Bible Gateway, every English translation uses quote messengers unquote
Speaker 2: except for three of them, and those three don't use
Speaker 2: anything close to quote armed guards unquote. There are three
Speaker 2: Hebrew words for guards, and none of them were used here.
Speaker 2: There are several problems with the argument that quote took
Speaker 2: unquote means by force. First, the meaning of the word
Speaker 2: quote took unquote must be discerned by its context, Although
Speaker 2: it often means quote grasp unquote, or quote sees unquote
Speaker 2: The same Hebrew word is used in Ruth four thirteen,
Speaker 2: which reads, quote Boaz took Ruth and she became his
Speaker 2: wife unquote. Except for those who already have their minds
Speaker 2: flooded with cultural Marxism, no one reading the Book of
Speaker 2: Ruth could conclude anything other than Ruth desperately wanted to
Speaker 2: marry Boaz. Second Piper ignored the significance of the next
Speaker 2: words quote, So David sent messengers and took her, and
Speaker 2: she came to him unquote, emphasis added. John B. Carpenter
Speaker 2: explains that the verb quote is active, meaning that the
Speaker 2: subject Bathsheba is acting, rather than simply being acted upon.
Speaker 2: The verb means come or go. Bathsheba came. It doesn't
Speaker 2: say she was brought or compelled. The object of the
Speaker 2: action is him. In this case, it is David. Thus
Speaker 2: she came to him unquote. Carpenter asks, quote, why is
Speaker 2: it in the text if she had no choice? Why
Speaker 2: state she came to him? The reality is that she
Speaker 2: came to him, states her action and agency unquote. Third,
Speaker 2: the verse could have ended with quote and David raped
Speaker 2: her unquote. It's not like the author of Second Samuel
Speaker 2: was afraid to talk about rape. Since just two chapters later,
Speaker 2: in thirteen fourteen, we learn about Amnin's raping his sister Tamar,
Speaker 2: who was pleading with him not to violate her. But
Speaker 2: amnuen quote refused to listen to her, and since he
Speaker 2: was stronger than she, he raped her unquote. The underlying
Speaker 2: word translated quote rape unquote means to afflict, oppress or humblesomeone.
Speaker 2: But Second Samuel eleven four does not use this word.
Speaker 2: It merely says that David quote lay with her unquote
Speaker 2: arguments that Bathsheba was not raped. Each point that follows
Speaker 2: may not be decisive in itself, but is part of
Speaker 2: a cumulative case against the assertion that David certainly raped Bathsheba.
Speaker 2: Solomon warns his sons to beware of adulterous women. Proverbs
Speaker 2: one through nine is a collection of Solomon's advice for
Speaker 2: his sons, one of whom would be King. Of course, Solomon,
Speaker 2: the wisest man in the world, was also the son
Speaker 2: of either the most famous adulterers in the history of
Speaker 2: the world, or, if we are going to believe the
Speaker 2: power dynamic definition of rape, the most famous rapist in
Speaker 2: the world. Notice that Solomon never warns his sons against
Speaker 2: committing rape, but he has much to say to his
Speaker 2: sons about guarding against the adulterous woman. In Proverbs, too,
Speaker 2: Solomon tells his sons to pay close attention to his words. Quote,
Speaker 2: so you will be delivered from the forbidden woman, from
Speaker 2: the adulteress with her smooth words, who forsakes the companion
Speaker 2: of her youth and forgets the covenant of her God unquote.
Speaker 2: Verses sixteen through seventeen, Solomon warns his sons that adulterous
Speaker 2: women are out to seduce them with quote smooth words unquote,
Speaker 2: these women are dangerous to them. Verse nineteen. Lesson, beware
Speaker 2: married women who would like to seduce you. Proverbs six
Speaker 2: twenty three through twenty six reads quote, for the commandment
Speaker 2: is a lamp, and the teaching a light, and the
Speaker 2: reproofs of discipline are the way of life. To preserve
Speaker 2: you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of
Speaker 2: the adulteress, do not desire her beauty in your heart,
Speaker 2: and do not let her capture you with her eyelashes.
Speaker 2: For the price of a prostitute is only a loaf
Speaker 2: of bread, but a married woman hunts down a precious
Speaker 2: life unquote. Lesson, beware beautiful married women who would like
Speaker 2: to seduce you. Now consider the seventh chapter of Proverbs,
Speaker 2: which is entirely about a married woman succeeding in seducing
Speaker 2: a man. It begins in verse one with quote, my son,
Speaker 2: keep my words and treasure at my commandments with you unquote.
Speaker 2: In the next three verses, he continues to emphasize the
Speaker 2: importance of following his commands and walking in wisdom. Then
Speaker 2: Solomon explains why in verse five they will quote keep
Speaker 2: you from the forbidden woman from the adulteress with her
Speaker 2: smooth words unquote. Solomon talks about seeing a quote man
Speaker 2: lacking sense unquote verse seven, who is out at dusk,
Speaker 2: passing by a street on which he has seen a
Speaker 2: loose woman previously. Verse eight. He's doing this at quote
Speaker 2: twilight unquote. Verse nine. That's when David was on his
Speaker 2: roof and when Bathsheba was taking her bath. And then
Speaker 2: encounters the woman he's looking for, who quote kisses him
Speaker 2: unquote verse thirteen and tells him that she offered sacrifices
Speaker 2: and today quote paid my vows unquote. Verse fourteen reminiscent
Speaker 2: of Bathsheba perform her ceremonial cleansing. This woman entices him
Speaker 2: saying she has quote perfumed unquote her bed verse seventeen,
Speaker 2: and then says, quote, let us delight ourselves with love unquote.
Speaker 2: Verse eighteen. She says her husband has gone on quote
Speaker 2: a long journey unquote, so they won't get caught verse nineteen. Similarly,
Speaker 2: Uriah was away at war. Ultimately he gives in quote
Speaker 2: as an ox goes to the slaughter unquote verse twenty two, lesson,
Speaker 2: some married women will try to seduce you, but that
Speaker 2: will end in your slaughter, whether actual or metaphorical. Solomon's
Speaker 2: sons would certainly have tremendous power as compared to any
Speaker 2: woman who might try to seduce one of them. But
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous to say that the women described above are
Speaker 2: in any sense being raped because of a quote power
Speaker 2: differential unquote. Rather, the women described here know exactly what
Speaker 2: they want and are striving to get it, to have
Speaker 2: sexual relations with someone to whom they aren't married. Further,
Speaker 2: it's naive to think that there aren't some women who
Speaker 2: want to build their self images by seducing the powerful.
Speaker 2: How many women of sex with famous rock stars, and
Speaker 2: we do after all realize the tremendous power differential between
Speaker 2: a stadium packing rock star and an eighteen year old waitress.
Speaker 2: Are we going to call that rape? Many years ago,
Speaker 2: when Clay was a pastor, two different women confessed to
Speaker 2: him that they had had affairs with pastors and they
Speaker 2: were proud of it. Are we going to call that rape?
Speaker 2: By the way, after these women confess that, Clay never
Speaker 2: saw either of them again. Although Monica Lewinsky was herself single,
Speaker 2: she had an affair with a married President, Bill Clinton,
Speaker 2: considered the most powerful man in the world. Quote. In
Speaker 2: the course of flirting with him, she raised her jacket
Speaker 2: in the back and showed him the straps of her
Speaker 2: thong underwear, which extended above her pants unquote. About her affair,
Speaker 2: Lewinsky wrote, quote, sure, my boss took advantage of me,
Speaker 2: but I will always remain firm on this point. It
Speaker 2: was a consensual relationship. Any abuse came in the aftermath
Speaker 2: when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect
Speaker 2: his powerful position unquote. Lewinsky wanted to have sex with
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton, and the quote power differential unquote didn't make
Speaker 2: it sexual abuse unless one is going to define it
Speaker 2: that way, which is circular reasoning. The focus is on
Speaker 2: what David did to Uriah. First Kings fifteen five tells
Speaker 2: us that quote David did what was right in the
Speaker 2: eyes of the Lord, and did not turn aside from
Speaker 2: anything that he commanded him all the days of his life,
Speaker 2: except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite unquote. Notice
Speaker 2: again that only Uriah is mentioned. It could easily have
Speaker 2: said quote in the matter of Uriah the Hittite and
Speaker 2: the rape of Bathsheba unquote. Quote. Bathsheba unquote isn't named
Speaker 2: in the genealogy of Jesus. It's interesting that Matthew's genealogy
Speaker 2: mentions the names of several prominent women in the ancestry
Speaker 2: of Jesus, but not Bathsheba's. Here's the beginning of the
Speaker 2: genealogy of Jesus is found in matthew Ie one through six,
Speaker 2: the Book of Genealogy of Jesus. Christ the son of David,
Speaker 2: the son of Abraham. Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Speaker 2: and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father
Speaker 2: of Judah and his brothers, and Judah the father of
Speaker 2: Perez and Zira by Tamar and Perez the father of
Speaker 2: Hesron and Hesron, the father of Ram and Ram, the
Speaker 2: father of Aminadab and Aminadab, the father of Nason and Nason,
Speaker 2: the father of Salmon and Salmon the father of Boaz
Speaker 2: by Raehab and Boaz, the father of Obed by Ruth
Speaker 2: in Obed, the father of Jesse and Jesse the father
Speaker 2: of David the King, and David was the father of
Speaker 2: Solomon by the wife of Uriah. Emphasis added, Tamar was
Speaker 2: a woman of faith who pretended to be a prostitute
Speaker 2: to get pregnant from Judah. Raehab had been a prostitute
Speaker 2: in the land of the Canaanites, but is nonetheless mentioned
Speaker 2: by name, as she was a woman of faith. Ruth
Speaker 2: is one of the holiest women mentioned in the Bible.
Speaker 2: It would have been easy to write, quote, David was
Speaker 2: the father of Solomon by Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah unquote,
Speaker 2: but her name isn't mentioned. Instead, she is only addressed
Speaker 2: as quote the wife of Uriah unquote. If she had
Speaker 2: been raped and thus completely innocent in her relationship with David,
Speaker 2: why not honor her by mentioning her name. The accusation
Speaker 2: of rape is based on contemporary critical theory Larry Alex
Speaker 2: argues that saying that David rape Bathsheba is a relatively
Speaker 2: new idea. He says he checked twenty commentaries written prior
Speaker 2: to two thousand and noticed quote not a single one
Speaker 2: of them addressed the issue of rape, you know, meaning
Speaker 2: that wasn't on the table. That just wasn't an issue
Speaker 2: that they were addressing unquote. He goes on to point
Speaker 2: out that what was addressed among them was the degree
Speaker 2: of Bathsheba's guilt. Quote. They are unified that she committed
Speaker 2: adultery to none of them took the view that she
Speaker 2: had been raped unquote. John B. Carpenter explains how quote
Speaker 2: power imbalance unquote is related to cultural Marxism. Quote. The
Speaker 2: claim that David rape Bathsheba shows what is embedded at
Speaker 2: the heart of the community that makes it a fundamental
Speaker 2: suspicion of authority. The power imbalance is to blame. Power
Speaker 2: imbalances always foster abuse. According to this community, These assumptions
Speaker 2: about authorities arise from what some have called cultural Marxism.
Speaker 2: Just as classic economic Marxism assume that all the institutions
Speaker 2: existed for the power and privilege of the bourgeois elite,
Speaker 2: so cultural Marxism assumes that power is merely for the patriarchal, racial,
Speaker 2: or religious elite. It's all a power play. These assumptions,
Speaker 2: whatever you might call them, are embedded in part of
Speaker 2: our culture. They are rarely laid out by those who
Speaker 2: hold them, but smuggled into the debate with test cases
Speaker 2: such as David and Bathsheba unquote. Bathsheba should have resisted,
Speaker 2: as quoted earlier, Ames wrote, quote, David summons her, does
Speaker 2: she have a choice. Her husband and her father are
Speaker 2: both soldiers under his command. No one can refuse the
Speaker 2: king unquote. Several things. First, she should have cried out.
Speaker 2: Deuteronomy twenty two twenty four commands that if a woman
Speaker 2: has sex with someone to whom she's not married, then quote,
Speaker 2: you shall stone them to death with stones. The young
Speaker 2: woman because she did not cry for help though she
Speaker 2: was in the city, and the man because he violated
Speaker 2: his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from
Speaker 2: your midst unquote. Some have said that crying out wouldn't
Speaker 2: have done any good in this case, as no one
Speaker 2: would have hurt her, but they don't know that that's
Speaker 2: just speculation. The scripture says that if someone is trying
Speaker 2: to rape a woman, she should cry for help. Also,
Speaker 2: the David raped apologists don't know that if Bathsheba had
Speaker 2: resisted even a little bit, that David wouldn't have apologized
Speaker 2: and let her go. To say that a woman shouldn't
Speaker 2: try to resist at all is contrary to scripture and
Speaker 2: contrary to common sense. Now, if David grabbed a knife
Speaker 2: and put it to her throat, well that would be
Speaker 2: the time to give in, and that would certainly be raped.
Speaker 2: But she could cry out before it came to that second.
Speaker 2: Notice that not agreeing that David rape Bathsheba is personal
Speaker 2: for many women who say they experienced an encounter for
Speaker 2: which they had no choice because of a power differential.
Speaker 2: If the power differential factor is removed, then that means
Speaker 2: that they weren't raped and that they might bear some
Speaker 2: responsibility for their sexual encounter. For confidentiality's sake, we can't
Speaker 2: give examples, but we've personally known women who were seduced
Speaker 2: who later called it abuse. Each instance of sexual molestation
Speaker 2: rape needs to be taken case by case. Sexual intercourse
Speaker 2: where there is no threat of physical violence can't be
Speaker 2: sweepingly defined as rape by a power differential again. Monica
Speaker 2: Lewinsky wrote, quote, sure, my boss took advantage of me,
Speaker 2: but I will always remain firm on this point. It
Speaker 2: was a consensual relationship. Any abuse use came in the
Speaker 2: aftermath when I was made a scapegoat in order to
Speaker 2: protect his powerful position. Many women want to have sex
Speaker 2: with powerful men, and doing so doesn't make it rape.
Speaker 2: One of the things we find most troubling from the
Speaker 2: David raped apologists is that they argue that the powerless
Speaker 2: are incapable of resisting the powerful. That's historically false. It's
Speaker 2: also insulting to women to say they're incapable of resisting
Speaker 2: in the absence of physical threat. But before we go
Speaker 2: any further, we need to make one point clear. We
Speaker 2: certainly think it's better to be sexually violated than dead.
Speaker 2: If a woman has a knife to her throat or
Speaker 2: a gun to her head, then it's better for her
Speaker 2: to allow the perpetrator to have his way than be killed.
Speaker 2: During the pre Christian Roman Empire, the Romans had all
Speaker 2: the power and Christians had none, But these powerless Christians
Speaker 2: were willing to be tortured to death rather than deny
Speaker 2: christ W. E. H Lecky in his History of European
Speaker 2: morals sums up the Roman torture of Christians. Those hateful
Speaker 2: games which made the spectacle of human suffering and death
Speaker 2: the delight of all classes, had spread their brutalizing influence
Speaker 2: wherever the Roman name was known, had rendered millions absolutely
Speaker 2: indifferent to the sight of human suffering, had produced in
Speaker 2: many and in the very center of an advanced civilization,
Speaker 2: a relish and a passion for torture, a rapture and
Speaker 2: an exultation in watching the spasms of extreme agony. The
Speaker 2: most horrible recorded instances of torture were usually inflicted either
Speaker 2: by the populace or in their presence in the arena.
Speaker 2: We read of Christian's bound in chains of red hot iron,
Speaker 2: while the stench of their half consumed flesh rose in
Speaker 2: a suffocating cloud. To heaven. Of others who were torn
Speaker 2: to the very bone by shells or hooks of iron,
Speaker 2: of holy virgins given over to the lust of gladiator,
Speaker 2: or to the mercies of the pander of two hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty seven converts sent on one occasion to the mines,
Speaker 2: each with the sinews of one leg severed by a
Speaker 2: red hot iron, and with an eye scooped from its socket,
Speaker 2: a fire so slow that the victims writhed for hours
Speaker 2: in their agonies of bodies torn limb from limb, or
Speaker 2: sprinkled with burning lead, of mingled salt and vinegar, poured
Speaker 2: over the flesh that was bleeding from the rack of
Speaker 2: tortures prolonged and varied through entire days for the love
Speaker 2: of their divine master, for the cause they believed to
Speaker 2: be true men and even weak girls endured these things
Speaker 2: without flinching. When one word would have freed them from
Speaker 2: their sufferings unquote. Indeed, quote one word would have freed
Speaker 2: them from their sufferings unquote. When it comes to quote
Speaker 2: even weak girls un consider that in a D two
Speaker 2: o three, the twenty two year old Vibia Perpetua and
Speaker 2: a slave girl named Felicity walked into the arena to
Speaker 2: be killed by wild beasts. Here's a portion of the
Speaker 2: testimony about their entering the arena. Quote they were stripped therefore,
Speaker 2: and made to put on nets. And so they were
Speaker 2: brought forth. The people shuddered, seeing one a tender girl,
Speaker 2: the other her breasts yet dropping milk from her late
Speaker 2: child bearing. So they were called back and clothed in
Speaker 2: loose robes. Perpetua was first thrown and fell upon her
Speaker 2: loins unquote. To avoid this, all they needed to do
Speaker 2: was to flick incense to Caesar and they would then
Speaker 2: be free to raise their children. Perpetua had just weaned
Speaker 2: her child prior to entering the arena, but nonetheless she
Speaker 2: honored Christ through it. In her diary, Perpetua wrote, quote,
Speaker 2: and Hilarian the Procurator, that after the death of Minutius Timinian,
Speaker 2: the Proconsul, had received in his room the right and
Speaker 2: power of the sword, said, spare your father's gray hairs,
Speaker 2: spare the infancy of the boy, make sacrifice for the
Speaker 2: Emperor's prosperity. And I answered, I am a Christian unquote.
Speaker 2: The David raped Apologists need to rethink the notion that
Speaker 2: the powerless cannot resist the powerful. All the martyrs of
Speaker 2: the Christian Church are a witness against them.
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