Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to Jay Dyer, our guest today,
because he has a really interesting perspective on the perversion
of Christianity in modern day society, specifically politics and entertainment,
and I think those things are more important than ever.
I think we're all understanding that there's hidden messages behind everything,
but we're not sure what to lob onto. And we
see these moments of I see cultural waves, and you know,
I think we all are right to be skeptical, especially
in the wake of the Charlie Kirk death. You know,
we saw this megachurch event which was his memorial, But
who's gaining power behind that. I'm just very interested in
this sort of Christian revival and what might be right
or wrong behind it. So that's why I thought Jay
Dyer was an interesting guest today. He joined us for
the first time on Redacted. Thank you so much for
joining me.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Nali. Glad to be here. I've been watching
your interviews with my good friend Jim Jatras, so I'm
honored to be here as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean he also is an Orthodox. I
met him at a Ron Paul event, and he has
a lot to say about not just politics, but also culture.
I am sort of new to Orthodoxy, and I guess
if we talk about it at this moment that we
come to right now, where the United States government has
unconditional support for Israel and it's selling a lot of
people are selling this through the lens of Christianity, and
so that's made a lot of us sort of peel
the onion of Christianity and think where did that come from?
And who's gaining power? And now in the fall of
twenty twenty five, we had the death of Charlie Kirk,
which created this new wave of non denominational Christians. But
what did they stand for? And so that's why I
wanted to talk to you, because you've had this journey
of studying Christianity and have landed in orthodox and you
can see these messages that are sort of perverted in
our culture, sure politically and through the entertainment industry. So
I'm gonna let you just take it. Can you sort
of paint me a picture of where you've been and
how you see that played out today?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can speak to this because I was raised
Baptist and in the Baptist Church in America, especially the Southern
Baptist circles dispensationalism, where Christian Zionism is pretty much the norm.
It's not a dogma per se, but I think most
Southern Baptist churches hold to this, especially coming out of
areas like Dallas Theological Seminary, which is a classical dispensational hub.
And I would say about a hundred plus years ago,
you had people in the circles of Samuel Untermeyer, who's
a famous US Zionist, and he really pushed for the
Schofield Study Bible, and through certain clubs that he was
a member of to recruit people into these clubs, people
like CI Scofield himself, who was kind of a notorious
con man. He created a study Bible with not much
of a pedigree himself for having any academic research or
back around, and the Study Bible became very popular right
around the time of the founding of the Well what
would become the Balfour the Bafflood Declaration in the Nation
State of Israel in nineteen forty eight. But back in
nineteen seventeen when Balfour Declaration came out, there was this
sort of coordinated push between Oxford University and the UK
printing the Schofield Study Bible and the push for that
in the US through these circles and these clubs. And
that's why it became so popular is a lot of
money was behind it, a lot of promotion, and prior
to that, most Protestant churches are what's called classical Protestant
Reformation churches, like Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, they didn't have this
Zionist view. Zionism is a very new movement, especially even
in the late eighteen hundreds. It was being discussed by
Moses has in his book Roman Jerusalem. I think it's
the eighteen sixty five text. He's one of the first
to say, we did this movement to reclaim from Arab
states and from the Sultan this land of Israel, and
you eventually got the support of the British Empire. So
long story short, there was a geopolitical motivation behind the
push for American Protestant churches to adopt evangelical Zionism. It
didn't really catch on in the mainline Protestant churches, but
fundamentalist churches really lashed onto it because they were duped
by this Study Bible. And now it's pretty much I
would say most Southern Baptists. Most evangelicals kind of just
default to this, but it took many, many decades to
get them into this mindset. So it's one of the
clearest ways to understand the subversion of the church through
geopolitical motivations. And more recently, I would say if you
go back to the nineteen seventies, you had the Jesus
People movement that a lot of the Boomers were duped into,
and that was through things like the late Great Planet
Earth from how Lindsay people associated with campus Crusade for Christ.
And there's a great book by flam Ingdahl who's kind
of a geopolitical analyst who wrote a book called Lost
Hedgemon which describes the present day of the last few
decades subversion of evangelical groups through the Pentagon military industrial complex.
I don't know if you remember Cony twenty twelve, but
that was one of the first incidents that occurred where
I started noticing the why are these evangelical entities campus
crusee for Christ, et cetera. Why are they pushing for
this geopolitical motivation or movement of africam in North Africa
at the behst of the Pentagon and the more I
studied into that, the more I start to notice whether
it's the evangelical Zionist dispensational stuff about the end times
in Israel, or whether it's the front for things like
Africam and US operations overseas to couch it and taking
out this dictator. A lot of the evangelical stuff is
tied to the hip with the Pentagon, the Cia, et cetera,
all the way back to the moral majority with Jerry Folwell, right.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of US I'll just tell you
who you're talking to, so you know, you know, I
think we should we should not assume that anyone watching
this understands dispensationalists. Oh so, because that was relatively new
to me. And I think that a lot of US
I was raised at Jehovah's witness So that's the understanding
of the Bible. I'm not that any longer, but that
is how I know the Bible and Jehovah's witnesses very
much do not believe in world governments. They believe that
there's nothing, nothing, that stands above God and that you
should never put your allegiance in world governments. And so
we have seen Christian churches pledge their allegiance to Israel,
going flat against the Bible. Whatever Bible you use, No
Bible says only this government is fine. And so that
makes a lot of us curious. And that sent me
back to my Christian Bible asking questions, which I think
is a good thing, right. But then I see now
this non denominational wave that caught popularity in the wake
of Charlie Kirksteath, and I'm like, who's gaining power from this? Right? Who?
What's not right here? And I can't make heads or
tails of it. So I want somebody more studied than
me to guide me. And maybe other people feel that
way too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So dispensationalism is an ideology about the end times
and ultimately all of history that comes out of the
Plymouth Brethren movement in the late eighteen hundreds in the UK.
They were a split off of the Anglican Church, the
Church of England, and they followed a guy named John
Nelson Darby who kind of charted out all of this
prophecy that he had thought he had figured out from
the Bible that all of history is divided up into
these sections or these sort of disparate segments and that
got in these different dispensations deals with mankind in a
different way. Eventually it led him to conclude that there's
two separate covenants, one for the Gentile Church, the believers
throughout history or Gentiles, and as separate covenant for the
nation state of Israel. And you can begin to see
why again, since the British Empire had its motivations to
support the Nation state of Israel, particularly amongst the Royal
Society elites, the Cliveden set, etc. Of the Rothschilds, they
would be very amenable to promoting this ideology which told
all the fundamentalist Christians in the West and the Evangelicals
that you need to get behind this nation state of
Israel because it's a fulfillment of prophecy if it's established.
So it's really kind of a bait and switch thing.
But more specifically the end times theories that you think about,
like in terms of you know, Tim lahay is Left
Behind series, Nick Cage in that movie Left Behind. That's
all dispensational ideology. So you would have pastors like John
Hagey would be kind of the face of this for today.
But it's been around for about a undred hundred twenty years,
one hundred and thirty years. And that's part of the
push amongst evangelicals and entities like Koufi, which is the
John Hagy Christians United for Israel Institute. That whole ideology
is about the fact that you must support anything the
nation instead of Israel does and if you don't, you're
spitting in the face of God and you're you know,
touching the apple of his eye because Israel is the
apple of his eye. Well, the historical tradition of all
churches prior to the last one hundred years of dismensationalism,
we understand that the church is the new Israel. So
the Church is the fulfillment of what Israel was a type.
So the promises to Abraham and to Israel are fulfilled
in the Christian Church. They're not promises to a socialist
nation state based around atheistic and kabalistic principles. So and
that is when you read heim Weetzmann and when you
read Theodore Hertzeul and Moses has who are the founders
of modern Zionism. I mean they didn't they believed in
like Pantheism and Galianism. They weren't Christians or I mean,
so they weren't orthodox Jewish believers. They had very heterodox
views and much more into politics than they were religion.
So it just doesn't make any sense. Even if you
believe the Bible, why would an atheist nation state based
around socialism be the fulfillment of God's prophecies and promises
to the Jews of the Old Testament. So so many
things don't add up, But that's what dispens dispensationalism is,
is this sort of defaulting to trusting, you know, anything
that Israel does is part of divine providence and prophecy.
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with a filter. I wonder what you thought of the
Charlie Kirk memorial. In a lot of ways, I found
it very sincere. But they were doing on the spot conversions.
Stand up if you'd like to accept Jesus for the
first time in your life. And I see now three
months past that event, how those people now will be
in a drag net of dispensational Christians. And so I'm
not saying that was purposeful. I don't have any proof,
but it feels very much like that handed power to
a lot of politics that I don't think is ordained
by the Bible. This is my gut reaction. Would you
like to respond to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that assessment. You know, I
don't think that God in the state or enemies or
anything like that. I think if you read Romans twelve,
or if you go back to the Book of Genesis,
God established the state to have authority to punish evildoers.
But that doesn't make the state God. And that's why
so many times the state has tried to be God,
and it's persecuted religious believers throughout the last two thousand
years of the church. But in regard to specifically things
like the Charlie Kirk Memorial and the sort of evangelical
entities connected to that, the problems that it's connected to,
the Calvary Chapel it's connected to, and things that were
created by people from the CIA. If you look into
Chuck Smith, if you look into Paul Kine, if you
look into these characters that are kind of Lonnie Frisbee
the beginning of the Calvary Chapel denomination. They all come
out of CIA and military intelligence type stuff. Some of
them came out eventually as being frauds, and they were
exposed to homosexual and channeling aliens. I mean, it's just
crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: Wait, really, can you tell me more about that? This
is something that you know, I.
Speaker 2: Look into characters like Paul Kane and Lonnie Frisbee. Lonnie Frisbee,
I think, if I'm going from memory here was the
one that was one of the early Calbary Chapel guys.
Who claimed to be able to speak, you know, multiple languages,
and he had these miraculous powers. He was a prophet
and all this stuff. And then it turned out he
was just a gay dude. And there was another guy
named there was no I mean, it wasn't a prophet.
So the Chakra, Uh, there's Paul Kaine's another guy who
worked with the CIA trying to do stuff related to
the Sanford Research Project. As I recall, I'm going for
a memory here, but you can look up these guys.
Most of the stuff is pretty easily accessible, but we
don't have to give us.
Speaker 1: All of it. But the trail is important, right, I
want to follow that trail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not everybody, not everybody that's part of tps A Faith,
which is a separate there's TPOSA and there's like TPUs
A Faith, which is the sort of evangelical franchise churches
associated with it. Many of those people are part of
what's called the New Apostolic Reformation, and they think that
their profits, they think they're apostles. So there's a lot
of charismatic kind of weirdness going on. And most of them,
as we said, are are dispensationalists, Christian Zionists, and you're
exactly right. There's people funneling into these groups, are going
to be put into that mindset, which ultimately has a
geopolitical agenda, has nothing really to do with with Christianity.
The people, I'm sure are sincere, so I'm not doubting
the people's sincerity too. But the movements and the franchise,
and that's the thing with the Calrid Chapel, for example,
is a bit it's like it's like a business, so
it's not a church. It's more like a corporate, you know, franchise,
like subway or something. So yeah, you could there's another
great thing to look at that it's more focused on
the realm of Catholicism, but it's the same principle. It's
called the doctrinal warfare program. And there's a Rumman Cavol
guy who wrote a great book on it. His name
is David Wimhoff, and it's called John Courtney Murray Timelife
Magazine and the American Proposition. And he's a Catholic lawyer
that wrote about a eight hundred page book on this
doctrinal warfare program that CD Jackson and Henry Luce of
Time magazine came up with during the Cold War to
co opt American churches. So it's not just Catholic. That
book focuses on Catholic, but it's also Evangelical, Orthodox, you
name it. The idea was, why don't we turn the
churches into a form of soft power and that will
be a very powerful engine during the Cold War. And
they even discussed Billy Graham kind of being one of these,
you know, tools of social engineering during the Cold War
or because he could turn a lot of people to
to faith away from you know, Soviet atheism. So those
are examples of people figuring out, you know, even in
the Cold War. And this is a declassified program. You
can look up. It's been declassified. It's not a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, religion is a perfect tool not just for soft power,
but also for i mean even at times using missionaries
as spies. So you mentioned, you know, things like Joe's
Witnesses and things like that. Russia, for example, has banned
Scientology and Joe's witness uh missionary processizing work because of
the instances of those groups being used for espionage. So
and I'm not saying that's just those No, this is
a classic Yeah, it's a classic thing to use missionaries
and and and people like that for for reconnaissance, for
for espionage.
Speaker 1: Is there intelligence that Jehovah's witnesses have been in fulter
created to be used but as foreign spies. Yeah, okay,
it's really good.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that's the most that's part of the reason
why Russia would ban them. It's not the only it's
not the only reason, but it's it's one of the
reasons's and the same with Scientology and Mormonism as well.
But it's not just those groups. I mean, there's a
long history of evangelical churches being used for espionage too.
So there's been books, some great books on that over
the years. Like I said, Lost Hedge and Maun discusses
it somewhat. There's a book called I Will Be Done
about Rockefellers using Baptists and Episcopal missionary evangelical missionaries in
Latin and South America for private corporate espionage. So yeah,
this is a whole other rabbit trail to go down,
But it's an it's a window into something that I
think you're hitting on, Natalie, that most people just don't
know about this, Like they don't know that churches are
seen by the state as a tool of soft power primarily,
So I'm not saying they're all spies. I'm just saying
religious groups can be a great cover or a great
tool of soft power.
Speaker 1: And that's a tale as old as time. I mean,
we know that the Crusades were really a political expansion
movement sanctioned by the Catholic Church. That's pretty clear right now.
So it's it's always been. Even though our constitution allows
for separation of church and state, the church still exists,
which is a right power center for the government to exploit,
whether it wants to be or not. And we can
talk about intention another time. Recently, we had a Christian
pastor unredacted, explaining this movement to us, and he said
that evangelicals are really sold the idea of American patriotism
and that's why they're so And I don't think I
really understood that. How is that done when you are
supposed to again, I mean, Joe's witnesses don't even vote.
That's how much they keep neutral in world governments because
it's important to them. And so how are other Christian
faiths taught patriotism when the Bible does not.
Speaker 2: Well, I might disagree with you there because I do
think that there's nothing wrong with being a patriot or
supporting our nation state or having borders. If you look
at Hebrews eleven, for example, Paul holds up as examples
of faith people from the Old Testament who defended Israel
and defended their borders, even says they expelled the foreigners.
And that's maybe my.
Speaker 1: Question was misguided. Then I think what I'm asking is
like governmental loyalty, So obviously, yeah, patriots.
Speaker 2: Limitation, yeah, yeah. So like, for example, in the first
three centuries of the Christian Church, when the Roman Empire
turned against Christianity heavily and started persecuting it, they would
make it mandatory that you worship Caesar or that you
pay divine obeysments to the image of the Empi. And
there are many people who were killed, the martyrs of
the first three centuries because they wouldn't admit that Caesar
was God. So there's limitations, or it's sometimes it's called
spheres of authority. Right, So the state has a legitimate
element or degree of authority, but when he oversteps that,
we as Christians or as Orthodox we have the duty
to obey the higher authority. So if God has given
limitations to the state that they can't go beyond certain balands.
For example, the state can't come in and tell the
church what to do. When it does that, it's overstepped
its bounds. And this church has a duty to oppose
the state. If the state comes in and says, you
have to worship me as God, well I have a
duty to follow the Tank Commandments, which tells me that
that's above the state, the state telling me to worship
it as God. Right, that's a lower authority violating a
higher authority. So yeah, but I think that you're absolutely
spot on with figuring out that evangelicalism is very very
own to worshiping the American government as a kind of
de factive voice of God, and so anything especially going
back to you know, post nine to eleven. I remember
when I was young, I was in my twenties back
then when that when that happened, I was run around
age twenty one. Nine to eleven happened, and I remember
the patriotism and the worship of the American state was
just everywhere and you couldn't question it. I started questioning
nine to eleven right after it happened, and I remember
I was ostracized. Family members were mad, you know, but
I was doubting the narrative. And it's because I didn't
put the state as God. I didn't put you know, Americanism,
as you know, one of my religious principles. I have
no problem criticizing, you know, the American nation, the American
foreign policy, and even our Enlightenment principles. So I think
you're spot on that a lot of people are sort
of inculcated, especially in America and evangelical churches, to kind
of almost gave facto think that, you know, whatever America
does is God. That's what Jesus wanted, you know what
I mean, especially in evangelicalism. Absolutely, so they play on patriotism,
they play right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think what I'm so curious about now, which
I've again never seen before, we see the rise of
Catholicism right now, for whatever reason. We see the rise
of non denominational Christianity, and a lot of that, as
sincere as those conversions may be, are giving rise to
certain power structures that we should ask questions about now
as I become interested, and again I'm coming to you
as someone who studied the Bible from the show's witness.
Lens left Christianity for a while and then comes back
to it now and says, what is this? What is
Christian Zionism? What is this evangelical patriotism that's leading to
a war rhetoric? What is this? And I want to
know again, So I'm coming back around and trying to
figure out. And then a lot of the political discussion is, well,
Catholicism has always been the enemy of communism. They've always
been fighting against that, and so they are the original
Christian warriors. And then you go beyond that, there's another layer. Well, actually,
orthodox is the straightest line from Jesus Christ, and so
every time there's this like hill to climb, I'm like, oh,
there's the power structure. Oh, there's the power structure. So
that's why I'm so curious to talk to someone who
has gone through this and arrived at Orthodoxy. So I'm
gonna let you respond to that. That's not really a question,
but it's a journey.
Speaker 2: It was. Yeah. I mean I was, like I said,
started Baptists, and then I spent most of my twenties
in the Roman Catholic world. I was Catholic for almost
ten years, and for me, there was just a lot
of problems with the pre Vatican two and post Vatican
two theology because there's such a stark change and whole
premise of you know, Catholicism is that it's the one
true faith. It doesn't change. The dogmas don't change, they
don't evolve, and yet here we have, especially after Vatican Two,
the dogmas evolving to be very you know, start contrast
between what we see in the Middle Ages. For example,
popes Urban the second calling a crusade and then now
the popes can pray in the mosque towards Mecca. So
which one is it? What's the real authentic Catholicism? Is
it Mother Teresa praying in Buddhist temples or is it
you know, calling a crusade against the Muslims to free
the Holy Land. I mean, that's such a stark contrast
to me that it was just so hard to try
to make that work. And so what I ended up
doing was just sort of focusing on the Church fathers
and the Christianity of the first thousand years and how
the Bible came to be. You know, who put the
Canada Scripture together, and you know, as you could see,
this is all the church fathers here back behind me.
That's what kind of eventually put me in the direction
of Orthodox Christianity. So I came to believe and be
convinced the form of Christianity that's prevalent in the first
thousand years isn't the papal one, it's the Orthodox one.
So that's long story short, that's where it took me.
But I think you're hitting on other geopolitical factors here
that are relevant, because, for example, the papacy nowadays kind
of is positioning itself to be not just the head
of the Catholic world and communion, but there's a real
push for a world religion, for a false kind of
union of all the religions under the papacy. For example,
they created an Abu Dhabi Faith Center recently with Vatican
approval and support, where Muslims, Christians, and Jews are all
gathering together to sort of have this common generic worship
of some generic God. And you know, if you look
at the first thousand years a Christianity, that's absolutely empathetical
to the whole ethos of what Christianity is. So for me,
those are key indicators and signs that, you know, the
Vatican has really gone off in this Davos world economic
form direction. In fact to the previous pope had the
same mentor as Klaus Schwab. So that to me is
as a huge, you know, red flag.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I recently finished the book in God's Name about
the murder of Pope John Paul the First.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's yeah, that's classic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm convinced that he was murdered. I don't think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets into the P two lodge and operation Gladio.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and the power it was really that that
is a proof positive of the deep States infiltration of
this power structure and the the changes that Joe that
John Paul the First wanted to make were then thrown in.
Speaker 2: The garbage Vatican Bank.
Speaker 1: And yes, and his successors were business as usual, if
not worse. And I don't know, you know, I'm not
exactly sure what to do that with that. Maybe you're
ahead of.
Speaker 2: Me there, you're spot on to look at Gladio there,
I mean, Gladio's yet another one of these operations where
you have going all the way back to the early
OSS guys. You have William Colby, you have Cord Meyer.
You have people like Angleton, all these people being involved
in setting up relationships with the CIA and the Vatican,
whereby the Vatican would get money to win some of
these elections when the Communists were getting more and more
popular in Italy, and the trade off was that the
CIA would have access to and support from the Vatican
and also use the Vatican Bank. And so Gladio becomes
this sort of model of concentric circles, of scams of
shell companies. Within shell companies, you have the Bank of Dembrosia,
which I'm sure you noticed in that book one of
the big banks that collapsed. And according to if you
read Paul Williams's book on Gladio, who's himself a Catholic,
he notes that this intertwining of the CIA and the
Vatican Bank and the papacy so disastrous because it really
ended up putting the Vatican into or under the thumb
of the CIA. Yeah, that's why you have during especially
during the Cold War. And I understand that doesn't make
communism good. I'm not pro atheist pro socialists, but the
point is that when you link yourself like this, you
end up getting a new master. And I think that's
why the Vatican has been so on board with all
the new World order, you know Davos globalist stuff, is
that they've been in bed with, you know, the CIA
and these entities for and the CIA is really just
the front for the Rockefellers, if you ask me, a
lot of the people in the circles of the Rockefellers.
I'm right now I'm reading a Burton Hirsch's book and
lecturing through that called the Old Boys, and that's just
about the founding members and the oligarchical elite of the
of the O S S and CIA. They're all really
just front men for the rock Fellers, Bill Donovan, Alan Dalls,
you know all these people working from from for banks
then go and found this you know, intelligence apparatus. But
they're connected obviously to the Vatican. And I'm glad you
mentioned Gladiol because you have essentially the subversion of not
just the Vatican but also Italy. Italian politics ended up
being subverted, according to Paul Williams, because.
Speaker 1: From the working class.
Speaker 2: They stole classes money, they stole their pensions. When the
Banquet and Brogio collapsed, they lost all their money. But
Italy was being run basically by Kissinger through Leccio Gelli
of the PT Lodge, and according to Paul Williams, he
argues that it was the same model of kind of
an Epstein style operation where they basically compromised most of
the Italian cardinals and politicians through the Bunga Bunga parties
that Silvio Berlisconi is famous for goes. It's the same
stuff that Epstein was doing.
Speaker 1: And the story of the death of John Paul the
first it reads like a spine nodel. He went to bed,
he had asked for all these people's resignation that he
suspected were in bed with the mafia. Went to bed
that night, did healthy dude, did not wake up the
next day, And when he was found by the nun
that took care of him, one of the most important
suspects came in, took all his medication, took his slippers,
took his glasses, took everything, and then that those evidential
bits were never found again, and the Vatican insisted that
he could not have an autopsy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: People who were not who didn't even live in the
Vatican were there. At five in the morning, the hearst
was called before his body was even discovered. It's undeniable
that there were power structures who benefited from putting someone
else in his place. I am so interested in your
work because I've never seen someone who sees the subversion
of propaganda as a religious practice, but I think that
it is. And I don't think that we understood this.
And now I see almost every sort of spiritual movement
and I ask myself, who benefits there? And what's the
real spirituality behind that that's required of us. I was
thinking as I was preparing for this, for instance, Oprah's movement,
this like non denominational faith based movement, this Joseph Campbell,
that we're all in the same spiritual journey, but there's
nobody who can lead it. There's no church center, there's
nothing that this led to the Witch movement in the
early twenty twenties. I think that, you know, I followed
that for a long time, like, yeah, not the church,
it all, it's all individual Who benefits there? What do
you think of this?
Speaker 2: Well, that fits perfectly with the Americanist ethos, right. Americanism
is all about individualism, and so it makes sense that
you would get an individual wise or radically atomized individualistic
spirituality out of that. You know, Joseph Campbell is really
just kind of cribbing from Carl Young's watered down crawl
Young type archetypal stuff. So you know, it's a mix.
And I think the big name influencers like that or Moguls,
I guess you could say with Oprah, you know, they've
long had a fixation with spirituality and sort of tailoring
that to their largely women audience. And I think so
I think it marketable from a marketing perspective, would play
well with her audience being largely women. What they would
gravitate towards would be something like that. But I think
ultimately they're really just fraudulent sort of copies out of
you know, Freemasonry, that kind of stuff. Joseph Campbell's big
on Freemasonry. So they're just it's kind of creating and
tailoring your own religion. You know, if you look at
somebody Alister Crowley, the famous Satanist of the last century,
when he who worked for British intelligence, by the way,
when he created his system of it's almost like a
Grads goal for creating religious cults. When you go through
the degrees of his cult, you get to the top
and sort of the end of it is you've learned
now how to create your own religion. So for example,
l Ron Hubbard, he went through that structure and when
he came out of it, he creates scientology. Speaking of
which stuff, Jeryl Gardner went through Crowley's structure and when
he came out he created modern Wicca. So modern Wicca
is not ancient. It's created by this, you know, greasy
old dude that wanted to spank naked women's butts in
the out in the woods, and that's exactly what he did.
Like so he created his own little cult where he
could have a bunch of nude women around for them.
So I think that, yeah, exactly. I think that people
like Oprah have figured out that religion is just from
a practical perspective, a very good grift. But also, Oprah,
you know, it's very connected to a lot of these
elite people. You know, look at the John of God stuff.
Speaker 1: If you remember that, I don't don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: Oh so John of God was that guy that was
doing like breeding and he was a faith healer, but
he was a con man, and Oprah did a lot
of specials on him. And his you know, powerful mystical
practices and how he could heal heal people, and then
they got busted. It was a big human trafficking operation,
so they tried to scrub that he was John of God.
Speaker 1: You can learn, right, Okay, I guess what I saw
it as, like, Oh, you're creating anarchists. That's what this
movement has done. People who hate their government, who hate
you know, they think everything's racist. They think they're the
only I didn't understand that until I saw shirts at
Target that said Spiritual Gangster and I was like, oh.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you said that, because I did a
podcast recently on Joseph Conrad's novel Secret Agent, which is
one of the first British intelligence novels. Well, it's one
of the first novels about British intelligence or intelligence operations
in the modern world, modern English. There was an older
one about the revolution sinary period. I forget the name
of it, but it's the second one about you know, espionage,
and in that book, the anarchist group, the Anarchist Collective
is essentially a cut out, fake group that's run by counterintelligence.
So I think, I think you're on the right track.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what you've done in your life's work is
take a lot of movements and you're able to see
who the power structures are. And in doing all of
this for your whole life, you've landed on Orthodoxy as
what you think is the truth. And I'm just so
fascinated and I could talk to you about this all day,
but maybe can you come back, because I feel like
this is the game of jeopardy, like I can I
can name anything and you can say, well, here is
here are the dark webs behind it, and that's it's
super fun. I mean, I've seen you do it with
other movies, other TV shows and things like that. But
maybe tell me how do you how do you know
where to land? Then? When it seems like there's always
a bad guy behind a bad guy in these well
intentioned movements.
Speaker 2: I mean, I got I guess you're you're expressing kind
of one of the unending struggle. I guess everybody will
struggle at times with you know, any any movement having
corrupts people amongst the members. And I think with Christianity
or with Orthodoxed Christianity, ultimately you know, it's decentralized, so
it doesn't have a pope. It doesn't have a Vatican,
and I think that's one firewall that it has going
to protect protect against the sort of total institutional corruption.
Uh but I mean, really, you know, you can never
escape institutional corruption totally. You know, falling human beings are
always going to be doing human things. So but I
think that's one one reason why Orthodoxy is somewhat immune
to being totally taken over. But it's not just decentralized.
It also has kind of you know, a global as
a global communion aspect to it, even though there is
a little bit of a hierarchy with bishops, but there's
no super bishop like the pope. So but yeah, I
mean there's a lot of reasons why. I mean, I
think my own background, my own life, a lot of
that I think led me to where I'm at. I
won't spend a whole lot of time on all that,
but beyond that, I would say, what we also do
on my channel and on my material is like I
don't just cover you know, religious topics. We do a
lot of stuff. So I write comedy for Sam Hide
Show host Alex Jones show most Fridays for the last
five years, we do a lot of talks where we
lecture through global elite books, so we've done about seventy
of those in the last ten years. And then we
also cover film, film symbolism. My three books cover you know,
symbolism and film. And then I do have some you know,
religious debates. We've debated a lot of the top Muslims
and atheists and all that. So it's all of those things,
I think combined together to kind of for me to
get a picture of what's really going on in the world.
And that's what we're after. I'm after, like, how does
the word really work. I don't want to be duped.
I don't want to fall into tricks and scams and propaganda.
I wouldn't know how the world really works. And that's
what led me down the rabbit hole of religion and
geopolitics and espionage, because that's really what makes the world
go wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because people who are seeking seek for the
right reasons, and the wrong people will come in and
subvert that because it's because it's innocent. It's an innocent search,
I think, and a well intentioned search. And so do
orthodox believe excuse the fundamental question or the elementary question
that something can save us from these dark forces that
are subverting our political and religious lives.
Speaker 2: Christian any believes that Christ is the second person that
God has, so he is the second person of Trinity,
and then he came on earth to not just teach
us moral examples, but also to ontologically save us, to
change our very being. And so we participate in the
Divine Liturgy, which is our worship service, which was kind
of typified in the Old Testament with the temple and
the sacrifice and the liturgy. There we have a New
Testament liturgy. It's kind of the fulfillment of that. So
we believe that you know, weekly feeding on Christ and
the Eucharist and participating in the sacraments. We think that
there's a real, you know, communion with God there and
that that does actually save us and prepare us for
the future escaton or the future resurrection. So we think
that there's a spiritual battle going on. It's not ultimately
just human power structures and machinations of you know, intelligence
agencies and government stooges. It's also the spiritual battle with
you know, the demonic realm and the angelic realm. So
we're caught in between that battle and we think that,
you know, orthodox Christianity is sort of the the means
by which one wins that battle.
Speaker 1: Right. I think that anyone who follows modern politics understands
that there is a dnemonic force at work exactly, and
that you're not just battling you know, partisan politics, that
there's something demonic about it that's co opted, and I
think we don't know what to do with that. What
Jehoah's witnesses would say is that it's going to take
a clean slate, and that's what armageddon is. That something
will come the believers versus the non believers will be
pissed out, and that is what the new system will be.
That we just have to start over. That there's and
so what you're saying is that you think that, well,
what would you say that I don't want to summarize
for you.
Speaker 2: Well, I would say there is an eventual in times
and so alily in this world, in this life, not
everything will be rectified, okay. But also I think that
we even within this life, you know, we can still
have spiritual blessings and spiritual healing, all those things are
reality still within this life. We don't have to wafer
everything at the end of the world or whatever. And
also I think you know, if you look at groups
like Shoe's Witnesses, and I don't mean this in any
kind of personal offense to you, I'm not insulting you,
but I want anything.
Speaker 1: I'm just I just want to ask the questions and
get get somewhere that makes me feel like we're doing
good work, because we can't just subvert to the demons.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason I bring up if you look at uh,
after Charles Day's Russell, you had Judge WA's his face.
Who was the next guy in France? Yeah, and he
created That's Sarum because he thought the end of the
world was coming. And so a lot of those groups,
kind of like the I don't.
Speaker 1: Know about the Death Serum, they did think that the
world was coming to an end.
Speaker 2: And Sarum was the house that he built for David
when David and these people were going to come back.
It's called Beth Serum. It's I think it's in San Diego.
And I'm saying that a lot of groups have these
sort of predictions of when the end of the world
will come. You see the same thing with Hal Lindsey.
He wrote a book called nineteen eighty eight, where he
said they're into the world. A rapture was coming in
nineteen eighty eight. So one of the indicators I think
of like fake groups is they will have these sort
of predictions of when it's going to happen, and then
when it doesn't happen, well, let's retool it and we'll
revise it and we'll say that, you know, well we
didn't get this detail right or whatever. So the sensationalism
of sort of end time stuff, I think is not
that useful for the practical living of being active in
the world and just putting everything off towards the end
of the world. Like we're in the world. We're supposed
to be active in the world. We're supposed to engage
in these activities, and so I just think that a
lot of the end time stuff ends up being a
tool that not just dispensationalists or Christian Zionists can use,
but also if you're the state and you want people
inactive and controlled, well you give them an ideology that
you know you're not supposed to be involved.
Speaker 1: It also can be comforting, though, when you see things
that are so dark and you think that the deep
state power is so insurmountable that you think. I sometimes
feel like this, like, well, the aliens just fix this.
We can't fix it, you know, And there's comfort there
that I don't think you can turn your nose up
at well.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you can make that argument, I guess.
But also I think we have duties, you know, that
we're called.
Speaker 1: To so right, it's sort of it puts it beyond myself,
like I can't do it. It's too dark, it's too
you know, And sometimes sometimes I want to. Sometimes I
won't think that the aliens can do it because we cannot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, have you ever seen that. There's a great
documentary that relates to that called Mirajman. Have you heard
of that?
Speaker 1: Yes? I have, but I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: You should watch that. It's pretty fascinating on that topic.
But yeah, again I think, you know, Armageddon, end time stuff.
It's not that I don't think there isn't in times.
I just think that it's another way to sort of
engineer and utilize through social engineering and psychological warfare techniques
to make people inactive, to make them catatonic, to make
them sort of black pilled or whatever. But again, in
our day, most of that is really just tooled towards unfair,
unfettering support for the nation state of Israel. So that's
that's really where it's focused nowadays.
Speaker 1: Right, So I could talk to you all day. I
think you know, your books are a great place your channel,
you know. I guess I would like a reading list
to know where to go or where do you think
people should start to ask questions when you feel maybe
this call to Jesus as we saw happen around the
Charlie Kirk assassination, and then how do you know that
there's some kind of power structure that's manipulating your sincere
desire to find truth?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately there's no easy answers to those questions. And
the other thing too is when it comes to religious
engineering as some people call it or soft power type stuff,
there's not a whole lot that's actually been written on
the religious side of it. So there's a lot of stuff,
you know, we're people dealing with history of the CIA
and history of the massade or this kind of stuff,
but there's not a whole lot of stuff dealing with
how American religious institutions are utilized and co opted. So
one good book that just always pops into my head.
That's a little more readable than David Wimhoff's eight hundred
page book is Fleeam Ingall's great book Lost hedgem On.
He has a great book called Full Spectrum Dominance. Both
of those books touch on the subject. But I would
say also, you know, people can outside of just books,
like people could go, you know, check out an Orthodox
church if they want to and see if they like
it orthodox liturgy. But my books cover film symbolism and
archetypal analysis type stuff like Jungian type stuff in Hollywood.
But what I do in my books is also a cult.
Speaker 1: The occult representation in Hollywood where we don't we wouldn't
otherwise know it. I mean, we know it when it's
like The Exorcist, But where does it come in when
we don't know it?
Speaker 2: Did you know The exorcisten was a CIA script?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I didn't. William Peter Blattie that wrote that he did
psychological warfare for the CIA in Vietnam, So that script
was written with the sort of understanding of how to
terrorize people. I'm not saying there's not demons, but I'm
saying that even that's kind of a fascinating story. I
put that in my third book. But yeah, long story
short is that when I in the books, I kind
of list a lot of reading suggested reading type stuff.
So but yeah, we cover a lot of classics on
my channel, like Tragy and Hope is a classic from
Caryl Quickly, We cover Brazenski's texts, We cover Kissinger, staff
Rock Fuller books, history of the roth Child's like all
those kind of formative geopolitical stuff is good to read.
Speaker 1: But yeah, amazing, Okay, Well, I don't know how to
wrap this up. I feel like we could take any
one of these things and pull the thread, and maybe
we should do that another day and I'll just sort
of meditate on which ones I think, or maybe in
the chat if you want to go down one of
these rabbit holes specifically, we can do that. But I'm
so glad to know you and know more about your
work and your Yes, Jim Drotriss is the one because I,
like I said, I'm a seeker, and I thought that
my work was political, and then the more that you
study politics, the more you cannot avoid the spiritual. So
I am sucked back in and my way of seeking
is to pick up the pebbles that are on my trail,
like Hansel and Gretel type stories like this book. Okay,
I'll read it and now what do I know? And
then this book and I'll you know, that's all I
can do. So you are my pebble, and I picked
you up and now I need to keep going. So
thank you. I hope you'll come back on redacted. Jay
Dyer has been our guest. You can find more about
him at jaysanalysis dot com. It's been a pleasure, absolutely.
Speaker 2: It has a great conversation ed he had really good questions.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks, all right, we'll talk again another time, all right,