1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,399 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to Jay Dyer, our guest today, 2 00:00:02,439 --> 00:00:05,759 because he has a really interesting perspective on the perversion 3 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:11,480 of Christianity in modern day society, specifically politics and entertainment, 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,320 and I think those things are more important than ever. 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,120 I think we're all understanding that there's hidden messages behind everything, 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:20,960 but we're not sure what to lob onto. And we 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,320 see these moments of I see cultural waves, and you know, 8 00:00:26,399 --> 00:00:29,000 I think we all are right to be skeptical, especially 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,800 in the wake of the Charlie Kirk death. You know, 10 00:00:30,839 --> 00:00:34,759 we saw this megachurch event which was his memorial, But 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,439 who's gaining power behind that. I'm just very interested in 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,200 this sort of Christian revival and what might be right 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,479 or wrong behind it. So that's why I thought Jay 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,679 Dyer was an interesting guest today. He joined us for 15 00:00:47,719 --> 00:00:50,359 the first time on Redacted. Thank you so much for 16 00:00:50,439 --> 00:00:50,880 joining me. 17 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,439 Speaker 2: Thank you, Nali. Glad to be here. I've been watching 18 00:00:54,479 --> 00:00:58,960 your interviews with my good friend Jim Jatras, so I'm 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,560 honored to be here as well. 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean he also is an Orthodox. I 21 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:06,439 met him at a Ron Paul event, and he has 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,680 a lot to say about not just politics, but also culture. 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,200 I am sort of new to Orthodoxy, and I guess 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,319 if we talk about it at this moment that we 25 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,400 come to right now, where the United States government has 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,719 unconditional support for Israel and it's selling a lot of 27 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,359 people are selling this through the lens of Christianity, and 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,480 so that's made a lot of us sort of peel 29 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:33,519 the onion of Christianity and think where did that come from? 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,319 And who's gaining power? And now in the fall of 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,719 twenty twenty five, we had the death of Charlie Kirk, 32 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,760 which created this new wave of non denominational Christians. But 33 00:01:43,879 --> 00:01:47,079 what did they stand for? And so that's why I 34 00:01:47,159 --> 00:01:50,959 wanted to talk to you, because you've had this journey 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,840 of studying Christianity and have landed in orthodox and you 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,519 can see these messages that are sort of perverted in 37 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:03,120 our culture, sure politically and through the entertainment industry. So 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,640 I'm gonna let you just take it. Can you sort 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,439 of paint me a picture of where you've been and 40 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:08,960 how you see that played out today? 41 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. I can speak to this because I was raised 42 00:02:12,199 --> 00:02:15,919 Baptist and in the Baptist Church in America, especially the Southern 43 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,879 Baptist circles dispensationalism, where Christian Zionism is pretty much the norm. 44 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,280 It's not a dogma per se, but I think most 45 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,439 Southern Baptist churches hold to this, especially coming out of 46 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:32,960 areas like Dallas Theological Seminary, which is a classical dispensational hub. 47 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,919 And I would say about a hundred plus years ago, 48 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,599 you had people in the circles of Samuel Untermeyer, who's 49 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,879 a famous US Zionist, and he really pushed for the 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,840 Schofield Study Bible, and through certain clubs that he was 51 00:02:45,879 --> 00:02:48,599 a member of to recruit people into these clubs, people 52 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,000 like CI Scofield himself, who was kind of a notorious 53 00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:55,439 con man. He created a study Bible with not much 54 00:02:55,439 --> 00:02:59,639 of a pedigree himself for having any academic research or 55 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,560 back around, and the Study Bible became very popular right 56 00:03:03,599 --> 00:03:06,879 around the time of the founding of the Well what 57 00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:09,919 would become the Balfour the Bafflood Declaration in the Nation 58 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,039 State of Israel in nineteen forty eight. But back in 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,159 nineteen seventeen when Balfour Declaration came out, there was this 60 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,360 sort of coordinated push between Oxford University and the UK 61 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,960 printing the Schofield Study Bible and the push for that 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,520 in the US through these circles and these clubs. And 63 00:03:27,599 --> 00:03:30,800 that's why it became so popular is a lot of 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,680 money was behind it, a lot of promotion, and prior 65 00:03:34,719 --> 00:03:38,400 to that, most Protestant churches are what's called classical Protestant 66 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:43,039 Reformation churches, like Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, they didn't have this 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,080 Zionist view. Zionism is a very new movement, especially even 68 00:03:48,319 --> 00:03:50,800 in the late eighteen hundreds. It was being discussed by 69 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,479 Moses has in his book Roman Jerusalem. I think it's 70 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:55,759 the eighteen sixty five text. He's one of the first 71 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:01,159 to say, we did this movement to reclaim from Arab 72 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,599 states and from the Sultan this land of Israel, and 73 00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:07,520 you eventually got the support of the British Empire. So 74 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,240 long story short, there was a geopolitical motivation behind the 75 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:18,000 push for American Protestant churches to adopt evangelical Zionism. It 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,199 didn't really catch on in the mainline Protestant churches, but 77 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,720 fundamentalist churches really lashed onto it because they were duped 78 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,680 by this Study Bible. And now it's pretty much I 79 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,879 would say most Southern Baptists. Most evangelicals kind of just 80 00:04:31,959 --> 00:04:35,240 default to this, but it took many, many decades to 81 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,759 get them into this mindset. So it's one of the 82 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,120 clearest ways to understand the subversion of the church through 83 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,600 geopolitical motivations. And more recently, I would say if you 84 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:48,759 go back to the nineteen seventies, you had the Jesus 85 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,839 People movement that a lot of the Boomers were duped into, 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,600 and that was through things like the late Great Planet 87 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,639 Earth from how Lindsay people associated with campus Crusade for Christ. 88 00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:03,439 And there's a great book by flam Ingdahl who's kind 89 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,680 of a geopolitical analyst who wrote a book called Lost 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,639 Hedgemon which describes the present day of the last few 91 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:15,759 decades subversion of evangelical groups through the Pentagon military industrial complex. 92 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,240 I don't know if you remember Cony twenty twelve, but 93 00:05:18,319 --> 00:05:21,279 that was one of the first incidents that occurred where 94 00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:26,279 I started noticing the why are these evangelical entities campus 95 00:05:26,319 --> 00:05:29,439 crusee for Christ, et cetera. Why are they pushing for 96 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:35,279 this geopolitical motivation or movement of africam in North Africa 97 00:05:35,639 --> 00:05:37,920 at the behst of the Pentagon and the more I 98 00:05:37,959 --> 00:05:40,920 studied into that, the more I start to notice whether 99 00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:45,399 it's the evangelical Zionist dispensational stuff about the end times 100 00:05:45,399 --> 00:05:48,920 in Israel, or whether it's the front for things like 101 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,639 Africam and US operations overseas to couch it and taking 102 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,720 out this dictator. A lot of the evangelical stuff is 103 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,480 tied to the hip with the Pentagon, the Cia, et cetera, 104 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:03,560 all the way back to the moral majority with Jerry Folwell, right. 105 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:05,639 Speaker 1: I think a lot of US I'll just tell you 106 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,399 who you're talking to, so you know, you know, I 107 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,319 think we should we should not assume that anyone watching 108 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,920 this understands dispensationalists. Oh so, because that was relatively new 109 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:20,279 to me. And I think that a lot of US 110 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,920 I was raised at Jehovah's witness So that's the understanding 111 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,120 of the Bible. I'm not that any longer, but that 112 00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:30,720 is how I know the Bible and Jehovah's witnesses very 113 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,560 much do not believe in world governments. They believe that 114 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,360 there's nothing, nothing, that stands above God and that you 115 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,560 should never put your allegiance in world governments. And so 116 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,879 we have seen Christian churches pledge their allegiance to Israel, 117 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:49,000 going flat against the Bible. Whatever Bible you use, No 118 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,279 Bible says only this government is fine. And so that 119 00:06:52,399 --> 00:06:54,720 makes a lot of us curious. And that sent me 120 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,279 back to my Christian Bible asking questions, which I think 121 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,680 is a good thing, right. But then I see now 122 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:06,240 this non denominational wave that caught popularity in the wake 123 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:11,360 of Charlie Kirksteath, and I'm like, who's gaining power from this? Right? Who? 124 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:13,920 What's not right here? And I can't make heads or 125 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,439 tails of it. So I want somebody more studied than 126 00:07:16,519 --> 00:07:20,040 me to guide me. And maybe other people feel that 127 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:20,519 way too. 128 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. So dispensationalism is an ideology about the end times 129 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,079 and ultimately all of history that comes out of the 130 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,639 Plymouth Brethren movement in the late eighteen hundreds in the UK. 131 00:07:33,439 --> 00:07:36,759 They were a split off of the Anglican Church, the 132 00:07:36,839 --> 00:07:40,000 Church of England, and they followed a guy named John 133 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,040 Nelson Darby who kind of charted out all of this 134 00:07:43,839 --> 00:07:46,879 prophecy that he had thought he had figured out from 135 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,160 the Bible that all of history is divided up into 136 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,079 these sections or these sort of disparate segments and that 137 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,120 got in these different dispensations deals with mankind in a 138 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,360 different way. Eventually it led him to conclude that there's 139 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:04,879 two separate covenants, one for the Gentile Church, the believers 140 00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:08,480 throughout history or Gentiles, and as separate covenant for the 141 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,199 nation state of Israel. And you can begin to see 142 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,600 why again, since the British Empire had its motivations to 143 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,199 support the Nation state of Israel, particularly amongst the Royal 144 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,439 Society elites, the Cliveden set, etc. Of the Rothschilds, they 145 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:26,040 would be very amenable to promoting this ideology which told 146 00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:29,279 all the fundamentalist Christians in the West and the Evangelicals 147 00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:32,480 that you need to get behind this nation state of 148 00:08:32,519 --> 00:08:35,960 Israel because it's a fulfillment of prophecy if it's established. 149 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:38,159 So it's really kind of a bait and switch thing. 150 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,720 But more specifically the end times theories that you think about, 151 00:08:42,759 --> 00:08:45,679 like in terms of you know, Tim lahay is Left 152 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:49,639 Behind series, Nick Cage in that movie Left Behind. That's 153 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,080 all dispensational ideology. So you would have pastors like John 154 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,960 Hagey would be kind of the face of this for today. 155 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,159 But it's been around for about a undred hundred twenty years, 156 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,600 one hundred and thirty years. And that's part of the 157 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,519 push amongst evangelicals and entities like Koufi, which is the 158 00:09:10,639 --> 00:09:15,799 John Hagy Christians United for Israel Institute. That whole ideology 159 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,559 is about the fact that you must support anything the 160 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:21,879 nation instead of Israel does and if you don't, you're 161 00:09:22,279 --> 00:09:24,679 spitting in the face of God and you're you know, 162 00:09:24,879 --> 00:09:26,879 touching the apple of his eye because Israel is the 163 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:29,840 apple of his eye. Well, the historical tradition of all 164 00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:33,639 churches prior to the last one hundred years of dismensationalism, 165 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,519 we understand that the church is the new Israel. So 166 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,080 the Church is the fulfillment of what Israel was a type. 167 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,240 So the promises to Abraham and to Israel are fulfilled 168 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,159 in the Christian Church. They're not promises to a socialist 169 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,159 nation state based around atheistic and kabalistic principles. So and 170 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,919 that is when you read heim Weetzmann and when you 171 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,960 read Theodore Hertzeul and Moses has who are the founders 172 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,759 of modern Zionism. I mean they didn't they believed in 173 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,080 like Pantheism and Galianism. They weren't Christians or I mean, 174 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,279 so they weren't orthodox Jewish believers. They had very heterodox 175 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,279 views and much more into politics than they were religion. 176 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:19,840 So it just doesn't make any sense. Even if you 177 00:10:19,919 --> 00:10:23,639 believe the Bible, why would an atheist nation state based 178 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,240 around socialism be the fulfillment of God's prophecies and promises 179 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:31,279 to the Jews of the Old Testament. So so many 180 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:35,080 things don't add up, But that's what dispens dispensationalism is, 181 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,600 is this sort of defaulting to trusting, you know, anything 182 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:44,919 that Israel does is part of divine providence and prophecy. 183 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Rumble Premium, the 184 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,039 home of free speech and exclusive content from the videos 185 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,440 that matter. 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That's rumble dot 196 00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:38,039 com slash premium slash redacted. Because truth should not come 197 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,480 with a filter. I wonder what you thought of the 198 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,039 Charlie Kirk memorial. In a lot of ways, I found 199 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,120 it very sincere. But they were doing on the spot conversions. 200 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,960 Stand up if you'd like to accept Jesus for the 201 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,039 first time in your life. And I see now three 202 00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:59,480 months past that event, how those people now will be 203 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:03,600 in a drag net of dispensational Christians. And so I'm 204 00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:06,440 not saying that was purposeful. I don't have any proof, 205 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:10,440 but it feels very much like that handed power to 206 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,720 a lot of politics that I don't think is ordained 207 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:16,559 by the Bible. This is my gut reaction. Would you 208 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:17,639 like to respond to that. 209 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that assessment. You know, I 210 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,159 don't think that God in the state or enemies or 211 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,279 anything like that. I think if you read Romans twelve, 212 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:28,200 or if you go back to the Book of Genesis, 213 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:34,639 God established the state to have authority to punish evildoers. 214 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,720 But that doesn't make the state God. And that's why 215 00:12:36,799 --> 00:12:38,759 so many times the state has tried to be God, 216 00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:43,279 and it's persecuted religious believers throughout the last two thousand 217 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,879 years of the church. But in regard to specifically things 218 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,519 like the Charlie Kirk Memorial and the sort of evangelical 219 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:53,679 entities connected to that, the problems that it's connected to, 220 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,039 the Calvary Chapel it's connected to, and things that were 221 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,960 created by people from the CIA. If you look into 222 00:13:00,159 --> 00:13:03,200 Chuck Smith, if you look into Paul Kine, if you 223 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:06,879 look into these characters that are kind of Lonnie Frisbee 224 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:12,399 the beginning of the Calvary Chapel denomination. They all come 225 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,679 out of CIA and military intelligence type stuff. Some of 226 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,320 them came out eventually as being frauds, and they were 227 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,399 exposed to homosexual and channeling aliens. I mean, it's just 228 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:22,200 crazy stuff. 229 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: Wait, really, can you tell me more about that? This 230 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,519 is something that you know, I. 231 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,879 Speaker 2: Look into characters like Paul Kane and Lonnie Frisbee. Lonnie Frisbee, 232 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:33,399 I think, if I'm going from memory here was the 233 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,080 one that was one of the early Calbary Chapel guys. 234 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,840 Who claimed to be able to speak, you know, multiple languages, 235 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,679 and he had these miraculous powers. He was a prophet 236 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,039 and all this stuff. And then it turned out he 237 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,320 was just a gay dude. And there was another guy 238 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:52,639 named there was no I mean, it wasn't a prophet. 239 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,759 So the Chakra, Uh, there's Paul Kaine's another guy who 240 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:58,759 worked with the CIA trying to do stuff related to 241 00:13:58,759 --> 00:14:02,080 the Sanford Research Project. As I recall, I'm going for 242 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,519 a memory here, but you can look up these guys. 243 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,559 Most of the stuff is pretty easily accessible, but we 244 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,360 don't have to give us. 245 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: All of it. But the trail is important, right, I 246 00:14:11,039 --> 00:14:12,159 want to follow that trail. 247 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, not everybody, not everybody that's part of tps A Faith, 248 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,919 which is a separate there's TPOSA and there's like TPUs 249 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,519 A Faith, which is the sort of evangelical franchise churches 250 00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:25,679 associated with it. Many of those people are part of 251 00:14:25,679 --> 00:14:28,320 what's called the New Apostolic Reformation, and they think that 252 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,720 their profits, they think they're apostles. So there's a lot 253 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,840 of charismatic kind of weirdness going on. And most of them, 254 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,240 as we said, are are dispensationalists, Christian Zionists, and you're 255 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,559 exactly right. There's people funneling into these groups, are going 256 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:45,480 to be put into that mindset, which ultimately has a 257 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,639 geopolitical agenda, has nothing really to do with with Christianity. 258 00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:51,000 The people, I'm sure are sincere, so I'm not doubting 259 00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:55,440 the people's sincerity too. But the movements and the franchise, 260 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:57,240 and that's the thing with the Calrid Chapel, for example, 261 00:14:57,399 --> 00:14:59,360 is a bit it's like it's like a business, so 262 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:02,720 it's not a church. It's more like a corporate, you know, franchise, 263 00:15:02,799 --> 00:15:07,960 like subway or something. So yeah, you could there's another 264 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,639 great thing to look at that it's more focused on 265 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:13,039 the realm of Catholicism, but it's the same principle. It's 266 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,679 called the doctrinal warfare program. And there's a Rumman Cavol 267 00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:18,759 guy who wrote a great book on it. His name 268 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,080 is David Wimhoff, and it's called John Courtney Murray Timelife 269 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,240 Magazine and the American Proposition. And he's a Catholic lawyer 270 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,600 that wrote about a eight hundred page book on this 271 00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:32,919 doctrinal warfare program that CD Jackson and Henry Luce of 272 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,879 Time magazine came up with during the Cold War to 273 00:15:36,039 --> 00:15:40,000 co opt American churches. So it's not just Catholic. That 274 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:44,399 book focuses on Catholic, but it's also Evangelical, Orthodox, you 275 00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:47,240 name it. The idea was, why don't we turn the 276 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,279 churches into a form of soft power and that will 277 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,639 be a very powerful engine during the Cold War. And 278 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:56,919 they even discussed Billy Graham kind of being one of these, 279 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,000 you know, tools of social engineering during the Cold War 280 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,399 or because he could turn a lot of people to 281 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:06,559 to faith away from you know, Soviet atheism. So those 282 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,360 are examples of people figuring out, you know, even in 283 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:12,480 the Cold War. And this is a declassified program. You 284 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,240 can look up. It's been declassified. It's not a conspiracy theory. 285 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:16,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. 286 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:20,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, religion is a perfect tool not just for soft power, 287 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:24,480 but also for i mean even at times using missionaries 288 00:16:24,519 --> 00:16:27,840 as spies. So you mentioned, you know, things like Joe's 289 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,039 Witnesses and things like that. Russia, for example, has banned 290 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:40,600 Scientology and Joe's witness uh missionary processizing work because of 291 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:44,919 the instances of those groups being used for espionage. So 292 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:47,879 and I'm not saying that's just those No, this is 293 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:52,320 a classic Yeah, it's a classic thing to use missionaries 294 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:55,519 and and and people like that for for reconnaissance, for 295 00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:56,600 for espionage. 296 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,919 Speaker 1: Is there intelligence that Jehovah's witnesses have been in fulter 297 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,079 created to be used but as foreign spies. Yeah, okay, 298 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:05,920 it's really good. 299 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,759 Speaker 2: I'm saying that's the most that's part of the reason 300 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,359 why Russia would ban them. It's not the only it's 301 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,680 not the only reason, but it's it's one of the 302 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,759 reasons's and the same with Scientology and Mormonism as well. 303 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:18,519 But it's not just those groups. I mean, there's a 304 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:22,079 long history of evangelical churches being used for espionage too. 305 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,640 So there's been books, some great books on that over 306 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,440 the years. Like I said, Lost Hedge and Maun discusses 307 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,640 it somewhat. There's a book called I Will Be Done 308 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:36,319 about Rockefellers using Baptists and Episcopal missionary evangelical missionaries in 309 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,720 Latin and South America for private corporate espionage. So yeah, 310 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:42,720 this is a whole other rabbit trail to go down, 311 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:45,839 But it's an it's a window into something that I 312 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,200 think you're hitting on, Natalie, that most people just don't 313 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,279 know about this, Like they don't know that churches are 314 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,240 seen by the state as a tool of soft power primarily, 315 00:17:57,279 --> 00:17:59,359 So I'm not saying they're all spies. I'm just saying 316 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:03,119 religious groups can be a great cover or a great 317 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,359 tool of soft power. 318 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: And that's a tale as old as time. I mean, 319 00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:10,880 we know that the Crusades were really a political expansion 320 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,599 movement sanctioned by the Catholic Church. That's pretty clear right now. 321 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,759 So it's it's always been. Even though our constitution allows 322 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,599 for separation of church and state, the church still exists, 323 00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:25,960 which is a right power center for the government to exploit, 324 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,200 whether it wants to be or not. And we can 325 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,319 talk about intention another time. Recently, we had a Christian 326 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,079 pastor unredacted, explaining this movement to us, and he said 327 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:41,960 that evangelicals are really sold the idea of American patriotism 328 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,680 and that's why they're so And I don't think I 329 00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:49,640 really understood that. How is that done when you are 330 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,759 supposed to again, I mean, Joe's witnesses don't even vote. 331 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:56,400 That's how much they keep neutral in world governments because 332 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,319 it's important to them. And so how are other Christian 333 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,960 faiths taught patriotism when the Bible does not. 334 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,599 Speaker 2: Well, I might disagree with you there because I do 335 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,920 think that there's nothing wrong with being a patriot or 336 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,880 supporting our nation state or having borders. If you look 337 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,720 at Hebrews eleven, for example, Paul holds up as examples 338 00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:26,079 of faith people from the Old Testament who defended Israel 339 00:19:26,079 --> 00:19:29,119 and defended their borders, even says they expelled the foreigners. 340 00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:31,079 And that's maybe my. 341 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,799 Speaker 1: Question was misguided. Then I think what I'm asking is 342 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:40,319 like governmental loyalty, So obviously, yeah, patriots. 343 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,799 Speaker 2: Limitation, yeah, yeah. So like, for example, in the first 344 00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:48,720 three centuries of the Christian Church, when the Roman Empire 345 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:53,400 turned against Christianity heavily and started persecuting it, they would 346 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,519 make it mandatory that you worship Caesar or that you 347 00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:00,720 pay divine obeysments to the image of the Empi. And 348 00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:02,799 there are many people who were killed, the martyrs of 349 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:05,559 the first three centuries because they wouldn't admit that Caesar 350 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,799 was God. So there's limitations, or it's sometimes it's called 351 00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:14,279 spheres of authority. Right, So the state has a legitimate 352 00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:17,279 element or degree of authority, but when he oversteps that, 353 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,680 we as Christians or as Orthodox we have the duty 354 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:23,759 to obey the higher authority. So if God has given 355 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:26,759 limitations to the state that they can't go beyond certain balands. 356 00:20:26,839 --> 00:20:28,680 For example, the state can't come in and tell the 357 00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:32,759 church what to do. When it does that, it's overstepped 358 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:35,319 its bounds. And this church has a duty to oppose 359 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,440 the state. If the state comes in and says, you 360 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,599 have to worship me as God, well I have a 361 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,759 duty to follow the Tank Commandments, which tells me that 362 00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:46,119 that's above the state, the state telling me to worship 363 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,119 it as God. Right, that's a lower authority violating a 364 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:54,079 higher authority. So yeah, but I think that you're absolutely 365 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:59,279 spot on with figuring out that evangelicalism is very very 366 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:05,279 own to worshiping the American government as a kind of 367 00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:09,880 de factive voice of God, and so anything especially going 368 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,480 back to you know, post nine to eleven. I remember 369 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,200 when I was young, I was in my twenties back 370 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,200 then when that when that happened, I was run around 371 00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:18,480 age twenty one. Nine to eleven happened, and I remember 372 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,279 the patriotism and the worship of the American state was 373 00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,559 just everywhere and you couldn't question it. I started questioning 374 00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:26,480 nine to eleven right after it happened, and I remember 375 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:29,920 I was ostracized. Family members were mad, you know, but 376 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,839 I was doubting the narrative. And it's because I didn't 377 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,559 put the state as God. I didn't put you know, Americanism, 378 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,599 as you know, one of my religious principles. I have 379 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,240 no problem criticizing, you know, the American nation, the American 380 00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:49,079 foreign policy, and even our Enlightenment principles. So I think 381 00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:50,720 you're spot on that a lot of people are sort 382 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,680 of inculcated, especially in America and evangelical churches, to kind 383 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,240 of almost gave facto think that, you know, whatever America 384 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,400 does is God. That's what Jesus wanted, you know what 385 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,440 I mean, especially in evangelicalism. Absolutely, so they play on patriotism, 386 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,319 they play right. 387 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think what I'm so curious about now, which 388 00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:13,680 I've again never seen before, we see the rise of 389 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,960 Catholicism right now, for whatever reason. We see the rise 390 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,279 of non denominational Christianity, and a lot of that, as 391 00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:27,759 sincere as those conversions may be, are giving rise to 392 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:31,079 certain power structures that we should ask questions about now 393 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,279 as I become interested, and again I'm coming to you 394 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,480 as someone who studied the Bible from the show's witness. 395 00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:41,480 Lens left Christianity for a while and then comes back 396 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,279 to it now and says, what is this? What is 397 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,440 Christian Zionism? What is this evangelical patriotism that's leading to 398 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,480 a war rhetoric? What is this? And I want to 399 00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:56,759 know again, So I'm coming back around and trying to 400 00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:01,960 figure out. And then a lot of the political discussion is, well, 401 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:07,839 Catholicism has always been the enemy of communism. They've always 402 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,960 been fighting against that, and so they are the original 403 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:15,119 Christian warriors. And then you go beyond that, there's another layer. Well, actually, 404 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:21,240 orthodox is the straightest line from Jesus Christ, and so 405 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,480 every time there's this like hill to climb, I'm like, oh, 406 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:28,200 there's the power structure. Oh, there's the power structure. So 407 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,119 that's why I'm so curious to talk to someone who 408 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,680 has gone through this and arrived at Orthodoxy. So I'm 409 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,720 gonna let you respond to that. That's not really a question, 410 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,279 but it's a journey. 411 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,559 Speaker 2: It was. Yeah. I mean I was, like I said, 412 00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:43,039 started Baptists, and then I spent most of my twenties 413 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,480 in the Roman Catholic world. I was Catholic for almost 414 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,160 ten years, and for me, there was just a lot 415 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,799 of problems with the pre Vatican two and post Vatican 416 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,240 two theology because there's such a stark change and whole 417 00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:58,640 premise of you know, Catholicism is that it's the one 418 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,319 true faith. It doesn't change. The dogmas don't change, they 419 00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:04,839 don't evolve, and yet here we have, especially after Vatican Two, 420 00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:10,039 the dogmas evolving to be very you know, start contrast 421 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,480 between what we see in the Middle Ages. For example, 422 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:15,880 popes Urban the second calling a crusade and then now 423 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,799 the popes can pray in the mosque towards Mecca. So 424 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,759 which one is it? What's the real authentic Catholicism? Is 425 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:26,519 it Mother Teresa praying in Buddhist temples or is it 426 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,880 you know, calling a crusade against the Muslims to free 427 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,799 the Holy Land. I mean, that's such a stark contrast 428 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:36,440 to me that it was just so hard to try 429 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,160 to make that work. And so what I ended up 430 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,839 doing was just sort of focusing on the Church fathers 431 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:45,240 and the Christianity of the first thousand years and how 432 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,519 the Bible came to be. You know, who put the 433 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:51,039 Canada Scripture together, and you know, as you could see, 434 00:24:51,079 --> 00:24:53,200 this is all the church fathers here back behind me. 435 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,759 That's what kind of eventually put me in the direction 436 00:24:56,799 --> 00:24:59,559 of Orthodox Christianity. So I came to believe and be 437 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,440 convinced the form of Christianity that's prevalent in the first 438 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,119 thousand years isn't the papal one, it's the Orthodox one. 439 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,519 So that's long story short, that's where it took me. 440 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:13,920 But I think you're hitting on other geopolitical factors here 441 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,440 that are relevant, because, for example, the papacy nowadays kind 442 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,279 of is positioning itself to be not just the head 443 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:24,440 of the Catholic world and communion, but there's a real 444 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240 push for a world religion, for a false kind of 445 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,880 union of all the religions under the papacy. For example, 446 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,920 they created an Abu Dhabi Faith Center recently with Vatican 447 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,200 approval and support, where Muslims, Christians, and Jews are all 448 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,240 gathering together to sort of have this common generic worship 449 00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:44,960 of some generic God. And you know, if you look 450 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,920 at the first thousand years a Christianity, that's absolutely empathetical 451 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,559 to the whole ethos of what Christianity is. So for me, 452 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,400 those are key indicators and signs that, you know, the 453 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,319 Vatican has really gone off in this Davos world economic 454 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,559 form direction. In fact to the previous pope had the 455 00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:04,880 same mentor as Klaus Schwab. So that to me is 456 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,440 as a huge, you know, red flag. 457 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I recently finished the book in God's Name about 458 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,680 the murder of Pope John Paul the First. 459 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,279 Speaker 2: Oh, that's yeah, that's classic. 460 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm convinced that he was murdered. I don't think. 461 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets into the P two lodge and operation Gladio. 462 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:32,279 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and the power it was really that that 463 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,599 is a proof positive of the deep States infiltration of 464 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,200 this power structure and the the changes that Joe that 465 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:44,119 John Paul the First wanted to make were then thrown in. 466 00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: The garbage Vatican Bank. 467 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: And yes, and his successors were business as usual, if 468 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:54,240 not worse. And I don't know, you know, I'm not 469 00:26:54,319 --> 00:26:56,599 exactly sure what to do that with that. Maybe you're 470 00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:57,039 ahead of. 471 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,759 Speaker 2: Me there, you're spot on to look at Gladio there, 472 00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,559 I mean, Gladio's yet another one of these operations where 473 00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:05,519 you have going all the way back to the early 474 00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:09,359 OSS guys. You have William Colby, you have Cord Meyer. 475 00:27:09,559 --> 00:27:15,240 You have people like Angleton, all these people being involved 476 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,240 in setting up relationships with the CIA and the Vatican, 477 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,000 whereby the Vatican would get money to win some of 478 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,839 these elections when the Communists were getting more and more 479 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,960 popular in Italy, and the trade off was that the 480 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,599 CIA would have access to and support from the Vatican 481 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,039 and also use the Vatican Bank. And so Gladio becomes 482 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,960 this sort of model of concentric circles, of scams of 483 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:44,200 shell companies. Within shell companies, you have the Bank of Dembrosia, 484 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:47,119 which I'm sure you noticed in that book one of 485 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,880 the big banks that collapsed. And according to if you 486 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,720 read Paul Williams's book on Gladio, who's himself a Catholic, 487 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,000 he notes that this intertwining of the CIA and the 488 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,039 Vatican Bank and the papacy so disastrous because it really 489 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,279 ended up putting the Vatican into or under the thumb 490 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:10,079 of the CIA. Yeah, that's why you have during especially 491 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,079 during the Cold War. And I understand that doesn't make 492 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,599 communism good. I'm not pro atheist pro socialists, but the 493 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:18,640 point is that when you link yourself like this, you 494 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,519 end up getting a new master. And I think that's 495 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:25,039 why the Vatican has been so on board with all 496 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:28,480 the new World order, you know Davos globalist stuff, is 497 00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,720 that they've been in bed with, you know, the CIA 498 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,039 and these entities for and the CIA is really just 499 00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:36,599 the front for the Rockefellers, if you ask me, a 500 00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:38,920 lot of the people in the circles of the Rockefellers. 501 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,039 I'm right now I'm reading a Burton Hirsch's book and 502 00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,680 lecturing through that called the Old Boys, and that's just 503 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,720 about the founding members and the oligarchical elite of the 504 00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,000 of the O S S and CIA. They're all really 505 00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:53,000 just front men for the rock Fellers, Bill Donovan, Alan Dalls, 506 00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:55,839 you know all these people working from from for banks 507 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,680 then go and found this you know, intelligence apparatus. But 508 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:02,559 they're connected obviously to the Vatican. And I'm glad you 509 00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:06,440 mentioned Gladiol because you have essentially the subversion of not 510 00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:10,039 just the Vatican but also Italy. Italian politics ended up 511 00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,720 being subverted, according to Paul Williams, because. 512 00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: From the working class. 513 00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:20,559 Speaker 2: They stole classes money, they stole their pensions. When the 514 00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,640 Banquet and Brogio collapsed, they lost all their money. But 515 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:32,000 Italy was being run basically by Kissinger through Leccio Gelli 516 00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:35,240 of the PT Lodge, and according to Paul Williams, he 517 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:38,319 argues that it was the same model of kind of 518 00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:42,279 an Epstein style operation where they basically compromised most of 519 00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:46,000 the Italian cardinals and politicians through the Bunga Bunga parties 520 00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:49,440 that Silvio Berlisconi is famous for goes. It's the same 521 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,680 stuff that Epstein was doing. 522 00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:53,519 Speaker 1: And the story of the death of John Paul the 523 00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:56,960 first it reads like a spine nodel. He went to bed, 524 00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,599 he had asked for all these people's resignation that he 525 00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,319 suspected were in bed with the mafia. Went to bed 526 00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:07,559 that night, did healthy dude, did not wake up the 527 00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:10,720 next day, And when he was found by the nun 528 00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:14,480 that took care of him, one of the most important 529 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,839 suspects came in, took all his medication, took his slippers, 530 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,160 took his glasses, took everything, and then that those evidential 531 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240 bits were never found again, and the Vatican insisted that 532 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:27,279 he could not have an autopsy. 533 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and. 534 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: People who were not who didn't even live in the 535 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,440 Vatican were there. At five in the morning, the hearst 536 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,799 was called before his body was even discovered. It's undeniable 537 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,920 that there were power structures who benefited from putting someone 538 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,559 else in his place. I am so interested in your 539 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,880 work because I've never seen someone who sees the subversion 540 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,599 of propaganda as a religious practice, but I think that 541 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,480 it is. And I don't think that we understood this. 542 00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,119 And now I see almost every sort of spiritual movement 543 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:06,440 and I ask myself, who benefits there? And what's the 544 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,400 real spirituality behind that that's required of us. I was 545 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,039 thinking as I was preparing for this, for instance, Oprah's movement, 546 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:20,400 this like non denominational faith based movement, this Joseph Campbell, 547 00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,839 that we're all in the same spiritual journey, but there's 548 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,519 nobody who can lead it. There's no church center, there's 549 00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:30,599 nothing that this led to the Witch movement in the 550 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,640 early twenty twenties. I think that, you know, I followed 551 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,799 that for a long time, like, yeah, not the church, 552 00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:39,759 it all, it's all individual Who benefits there? What do 553 00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:40,440 you think of this? 554 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: Well, that fits perfectly with the Americanist ethos, right. Americanism 555 00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:50,279 is all about individualism, and so it makes sense that 556 00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:55,200 you would get an individual wise or radically atomized individualistic 557 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,559 spirituality out of that. You know, Joseph Campbell is really 558 00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:02,880 just kind of cribbing from Carl Young's watered down crawl 559 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,039 Young type archetypal stuff. So you know, it's a mix. 560 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:11,720 And I think the big name influencers like that or Moguls, 561 00:32:11,799 --> 00:32:14,200 I guess you could say with Oprah, you know, they've 562 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,720 long had a fixation with spirituality and sort of tailoring 563 00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,720 that to their largely women audience. And I think so 564 00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:24,839 I think it marketable from a marketing perspective, would play 565 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,119 well with her audience being largely women. What they would 566 00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:33,039 gravitate towards would be something like that. But I think 567 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,680 ultimately they're really just fraudulent sort of copies out of 568 00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:41,079 you know, Freemasonry, that kind of stuff. Joseph Campbell's big 569 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:46,680 on Freemasonry. So they're just it's kind of creating and 570 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,759 tailoring your own religion. You know, if you look at 571 00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:52,640 somebody Alister Crowley, the famous Satanist of the last century, 572 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,000 when he who worked for British intelligence, by the way, 573 00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:59,519 when he created his system of it's almost like a 574 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:03,480 Grads goal for creating religious cults. When you go through 575 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,960 the degrees of his cult, you get to the top 576 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,960 and sort of the end of it is you've learned 577 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,680 now how to create your own religion. So for example, 578 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,799 l Ron Hubbard, he went through that structure and when 579 00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:18,720 he came out of it, he creates scientology. Speaking of 580 00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:23,880 which stuff, Jeryl Gardner went through Crowley's structure and when 581 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,279 he came out he created modern Wicca. So modern Wicca 582 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,440 is not ancient. It's created by this, you know, greasy 583 00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:34,160 old dude that wanted to spank naked women's butts in 584 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,960 the out in the woods, and that's exactly what he did. 585 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,680 Like so he created his own little cult where he 586 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,519 could have a bunch of nude women around for them. 587 00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:45,559 So I think that, yeah, exactly. I think that people 588 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:49,799 like Oprah have figured out that religion is just from 589 00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:53,680 a practical perspective, a very good grift. But also, Oprah, 590 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:55,319 you know, it's very connected to a lot of these 591 00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:57,880 elite people. You know, look at the John of God stuff. 592 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,799 Speaker 1: If you remember that, I don't don't know what that is. 593 00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: Oh so John of God was that guy that was 594 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,279 doing like breeding and he was a faith healer, but 595 00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:08,000 he was a con man, and Oprah did a lot 596 00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:11,880 of specials on him. And his you know, powerful mystical 597 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,920 practices and how he could heal heal people, and then 598 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,239 they got busted. It was a big human trafficking operation, 599 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,800 so they tried to scrub that he was John of God. 600 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: You can learn, right, Okay, I guess what I saw 601 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,320 it as, like, Oh, you're creating anarchists. That's what this 602 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,079 movement has done. People who hate their government, who hate 603 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,280 you know, they think everything's racist. They think they're the 604 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,760 only I didn't understand that until I saw shirts at 605 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:42,480 Target that said Spiritual Gangster and I was like, oh. 606 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you said that, because I did a 607 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,880 podcast recently on Joseph Conrad's novel Secret Agent, which is 608 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,360 one of the first British intelligence novels. Well, it's one 609 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,199 of the first novels about British intelligence or intelligence operations 610 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,039 in the modern world, modern English. There was an older 611 00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,119 one about the revolution sinary period. I forget the name 612 00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:04,880 of it, but it's the second one about you know, espionage, 613 00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:11,960 and in that book, the anarchist group, the Anarchist Collective 614 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:17,079 is essentially a cut out, fake group that's run by counterintelligence. 615 00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:18,840 So I think, I think you're on the right track. 616 00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: Okay, So what you've done in your life's work is 617 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,559 take a lot of movements and you're able to see 618 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:33,199 who the power structures are. And in doing all of 619 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,239 this for your whole life, you've landed on Orthodoxy as 620 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,199 what you think is the truth. And I'm just so 621 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,119 fascinated and I could talk to you about this all day, 622 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,400 but maybe can you come back, because I feel like 623 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,079 this is the game of jeopardy, like I can I 624 00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,320 can name anything and you can say, well, here is 625 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:54,679 here are the dark webs behind it, and that's it's 626 00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:58,400 super fun. I mean, I've seen you do it with 627 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,000 other movies, other TV shows and things like that. But 628 00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:05,119 maybe tell me how do you how do you know 629 00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:07,559 where to land? Then? When it seems like there's always 630 00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:10,039 a bad guy behind a bad guy in these well 631 00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:11,679 intentioned movements. 632 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,199 Speaker 2: I mean, I got I guess you're you're expressing kind 633 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,480 of one of the unending struggle. I guess everybody will 634 00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:23,000 struggle at times with you know, any any movement having 635 00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:26,639 corrupts people amongst the members. And I think with Christianity 636 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,840 or with Orthodoxed Christianity, ultimately you know, it's decentralized, so 637 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,519 it doesn't have a pope. It doesn't have a Vatican, 638 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,320 and I think that's one firewall that it has going 639 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,719 to protect protect against the sort of total institutional corruption. 640 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,519 Uh but I mean, really, you know, you can never 641 00:36:42,639 --> 00:36:46,280 escape institutional corruption totally. You know, falling human beings are 642 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,360 always going to be doing human things. So but I 643 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,000 think that's one one reason why Orthodoxy is somewhat immune 644 00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:58,920 to being totally taken over. But it's not just decentralized. 645 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,599 It also has kind of you know, a global as 646 00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:08,239 a global communion aspect to it, even though there is 647 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,639 a little bit of a hierarchy with bishops, but there's 648 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:13,519 no super bishop like the pope. So but yeah, I 649 00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:15,960 mean there's a lot of reasons why. I mean, I 650 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,880 think my own background, my own life, a lot of 651 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,079 that I think led me to where I'm at. I 652 00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:22,719 won't spend a whole lot of time on all that, 653 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,719 but beyond that, I would say, what we also do 654 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,960 on my channel and on my material is like I 655 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,480 don't just cover you know, religious topics. We do a 656 00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:33,559 lot of stuff. So I write comedy for Sam Hide 657 00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:36,559 Show host Alex Jones show most Fridays for the last 658 00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,280 five years, we do a lot of talks where we 659 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,559 lecture through global elite books, so we've done about seventy 660 00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:44,960 of those in the last ten years. And then we 661 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,480 also cover film, film symbolism. My three books cover you know, 662 00:37:48,519 --> 00:37:51,480 symbolism and film. And then I do have some you know, 663 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,119 religious debates. We've debated a lot of the top Muslims 664 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:56,679 and atheists and all that. So it's all of those things, 665 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,440 I think combined together to kind of for me to 666 00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:02,920 get a picture of what's really going on in the world. 667 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,760 And that's what we're after. I'm after, like, how does 668 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,920 the word really work. I don't want to be duped. 669 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,800 I don't want to fall into tricks and scams and propaganda. 670 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,760 I wouldn't know how the world really works. And that's 671 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,599 what led me down the rabbit hole of religion and 672 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,360 geopolitics and espionage, because that's really what makes the world 673 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:20,760 go wrong. 674 00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because people who are seeking seek for the 675 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,639 right reasons, and the wrong people will come in and 676 00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:37,159 subvert that because it's because it's innocent. It's an innocent search, 677 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,519 I think, and a well intentioned search. And so do 678 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,360 orthodox believe excuse the fundamental question or the elementary question 679 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,639 that something can save us from these dark forces that 680 00:38:54,679 --> 00:39:00,239 are subverting our political and religious lives. 681 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 2: Christian any believes that Christ is the second person that 682 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,280 God has, so he is the second person of Trinity, 683 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,320 and then he came on earth to not just teach 684 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,480 us moral examples, but also to ontologically save us, to 685 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:18,639 change our very being. And so we participate in the 686 00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:22,039 Divine Liturgy, which is our worship service, which was kind 687 00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,280 of typified in the Old Testament with the temple and 688 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,440 the sacrifice and the liturgy. There we have a New 689 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,719 Testament liturgy. It's kind of the fulfillment of that. So 690 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,599 we believe that you know, weekly feeding on Christ and 691 00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:38,400 the Eucharist and participating in the sacraments. We think that 692 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,840 there's a real, you know, communion with God there and 693 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,079 that that does actually save us and prepare us for 694 00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:47,119 the future escaton or the future resurrection. So we think 695 00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:50,639 that there's a spiritual battle going on. It's not ultimately 696 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,320 just human power structures and machinations of you know, intelligence 697 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,880 agencies and government stooges. It's also the spiritual battle with 698 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:03,000 you know, the demonic realm and the angelic realm. So 699 00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:06,960 we're caught in between that battle and we think that, 700 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,320 you know, orthodox Christianity is sort of the the means 701 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,559 by which one wins that battle. 702 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,159 Speaker 1: Right. I think that anyone who follows modern politics understands 703 00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:20,719 that there is a dnemonic force at work exactly, and 704 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,599 that you're not just battling you know, partisan politics, that 705 00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:29,400 there's something demonic about it that's co opted, and I 706 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,360 think we don't know what to do with that. What 707 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,840 Jehoah's witnesses would say is that it's going to take 708 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,199 a clean slate, and that's what armageddon is. That something 709 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,199 will come the believers versus the non believers will be 710 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,679 pissed out, and that is what the new system will be. 711 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,159 That we just have to start over. That there's and 712 00:40:48,199 --> 00:40:52,440 so what you're saying is that you think that, well, 713 00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,039 what would you say that I don't want to summarize 714 00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:55,320 for you. 715 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,119 Speaker 2: Well, I would say there is an eventual in times 716 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,320 and so alily in this world, in this life, not 717 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,000 everything will be rectified, okay. But also I think that 718 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,239 we even within this life, you know, we can still 719 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,920 have spiritual blessings and spiritual healing, all those things are 720 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,280 reality still within this life. We don't have to wafer 721 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,960 everything at the end of the world or whatever. And 722 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,840 also I think you know, if you look at groups 723 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,639 like Shoe's Witnesses, and I don't mean this in any 724 00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:28,039 kind of personal offense to you, I'm not insulting you, 725 00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,320 but I want anything. 726 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:32,599 Speaker 1: I'm just I just want to ask the questions and 727 00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:35,280 get get somewhere that makes me feel like we're doing 728 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,039 good work, because we can't just subvert to the demons. 729 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,679 Speaker 2: Well, the reason I bring up if you look at uh, 730 00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,679 after Charles Day's Russell, you had Judge WA's his face. 731 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,480 Who was the next guy in France? Yeah, and he 732 00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:51,199 created That's Sarum because he thought the end of the 733 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,760 world was coming. And so a lot of those groups, 734 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,079 kind of like the I don't. 735 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,159 Speaker 1: Know about the Death Serum, they did think that the 736 00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:58,320 world was coming to an end. 737 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,079 Speaker 2: And Sarum was the house that he built for David 738 00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:04,119 when David and these people were going to come back. 739 00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:06,679 It's called Beth Serum. It's I think it's in San Diego. 740 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,320 And I'm saying that a lot of groups have these 741 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,800 sort of predictions of when the end of the world 742 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,400 will come. You see the same thing with Hal Lindsey. 743 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,840 He wrote a book called nineteen eighty eight, where he 744 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,679 said they're into the world. A rapture was coming in 745 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,280 nineteen eighty eight. So one of the indicators I think 746 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,400 of like fake groups is they will have these sort 747 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,400 of predictions of when it's going to happen, and then 748 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,760 when it doesn't happen, well, let's retool it and we'll 749 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,519 revise it and we'll say that, you know, well we 750 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,559 didn't get this detail right or whatever. So the sensationalism 751 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:43,000 of sort of end time stuff, I think is not 752 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:49,119 that useful for the practical living of being active in 753 00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:51,360 the world and just putting everything off towards the end 754 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,840 of the world. Like we're in the world. We're supposed 755 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,880 to be active in the world. We're supposed to engage 756 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,000 in these activities, and so I just think that a 757 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,320 lot of the end time stuff ends up being a 758 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,480 tool that not just dispensationalists or Christian Zionists can use, 759 00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:10,960 but also if you're the state and you want people 760 00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:14,679 inactive and controlled, well you give them an ideology that 761 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,679 you know you're not supposed to be involved. 762 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:20,119 Speaker 1: It also can be comforting, though, when you see things 763 00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:24,599 that are so dark and you think that the deep 764 00:43:24,599 --> 00:43:28,800 state power is so insurmountable that you think. I sometimes 765 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,960 feel like this, like, well, the aliens just fix this. 766 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,320 We can't fix it, you know, And there's comfort there 767 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,199 that I don't think you can turn your nose up 768 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,840 at well. 769 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,559 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you can make that argument, I guess. 770 00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:45,960 But also I think we have duties, you know, that 771 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:46,760 we're called. 772 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: To so right, it's sort of it puts it beyond myself, 773 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,559 like I can't do it. It's too dark, it's too 774 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,559 you know, And sometimes sometimes I want to. Sometimes I 775 00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:57,960 won't think that the aliens can do it because we cannot. 776 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, have you ever seen that. There's a great 777 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,199 documentary that relates to that called Mirajman. Have you heard 778 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:05,440 of that? 779 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,079 Speaker 1: Yes? I have, but I haven't seen it. 780 00:44:08,159 --> 00:44:10,559 Speaker 2: You should watch that. It's pretty fascinating on that topic. 781 00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:15,079 But yeah, again I think, you know, Armageddon, end time stuff. 782 00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:17,360 It's not that I don't think there isn't in times. 783 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,800 I just think that it's another way to sort of 784 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,760 engineer and utilize through social engineering and psychological warfare techniques 785 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,679 to make people inactive, to make them catatonic, to make 786 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,400 them sort of black pilled or whatever. But again, in 787 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,440 our day, most of that is really just tooled towards unfair, 788 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,360 unfettering support for the nation state of Israel. So that's 789 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,079 that's really where it's focused nowadays. 790 00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:46,599 Speaker 1: Right, So I could talk to you all day. I 791 00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:49,639 think you know, your books are a great place your channel, 792 00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:54,480 you know. I guess I would like a reading list 793 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,039 to know where to go or where do you think 794 00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:01,960 people should start to ask questions when you feel maybe 795 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,360 this call to Jesus as we saw happen around the 796 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,280 Charlie Kirk assassination, and then how do you know that 797 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,400 there's some kind of power structure that's manipulating your sincere 798 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,320 desire to find truth? 799 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately there's no easy answers to those questions. And 800 00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:24,000 the other thing too is when it comes to religious 801 00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:28,679 engineering as some people call it or soft power type stuff, 802 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,719 there's not a whole lot that's actually been written on 803 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,679 the religious side of it. So there's a lot of stuff, 804 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,800 you know, we're people dealing with history of the CIA 805 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,519 and history of the massade or this kind of stuff, 806 00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,199 but there's not a whole lot of stuff dealing with 807 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,760 how American religious institutions are utilized and co opted. So 808 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,559 one good book that just always pops into my head. 809 00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:52,840 That's a little more readable than David Wimhoff's eight hundred 810 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,119 page book is Fleeam Ingall's great book Lost hedgem On. 811 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,639 He has a great book called Full Spectrum Dominance. Both 812 00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:03,320 of those books touch on the subject. But I would 813 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,079 say also, you know, people can outside of just books, 814 00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,159 like people could go, you know, check out an Orthodox 815 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,960 church if they want to and see if they like 816 00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:16,039 it orthodox liturgy. But my books cover film symbolism and 817 00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:20,400 archetypal analysis type stuff like Jungian type stuff in Hollywood. 818 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,960 But what I do in my books is also a cult. 819 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,039 Speaker 1: The occult representation in Hollywood where we don't we wouldn't 820 00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:29,159 otherwise know it. I mean, we know it when it's 821 00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:31,840 like The Exorcist, But where does it come in when 822 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,000 we don't know it? 823 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 2: Did you know The exorcisten was a CIA script? 824 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: No? 825 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,119 Speaker 2: I didn't. William Peter Blattie that wrote that he did 826 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:47,599 psychological warfare for the CIA in Vietnam, So that script 827 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,199 was written with the sort of understanding of how to 828 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,559 terrorize people. I'm not saying there's not demons, but I'm 829 00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:56,519 saying that even that's kind of a fascinating story. I 830 00:46:56,559 --> 00:47:01,559 put that in my third book. But yeah, long story 831 00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:03,360 short is that when I in the books, I kind 832 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,880 of list a lot of reading suggested reading type stuff. 833 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,280 So but yeah, we cover a lot of classics on 834 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,320 my channel, like Tragy and Hope is a classic from 835 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:16,079 Caryl Quickly, We cover Brazenski's texts, We cover Kissinger, staff 836 00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:18,320 Rock Fuller books, history of the roth Child's like all 837 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,599 those kind of formative geopolitical stuff is good to read. 838 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,199 Speaker 1: But yeah, amazing, Okay, Well, I don't know how to 839 00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:29,800 wrap this up. I feel like we could take any 840 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,440 one of these things and pull the thread, and maybe 841 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,119 we should do that another day and I'll just sort 842 00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:38,440 of meditate on which ones I think, or maybe in 843 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,719 the chat if you want to go down one of 844 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,679 these rabbit holes specifically, we can do that. But I'm 845 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,159 so glad to know you and know more about your 846 00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:49,559 work and your Yes, Jim Drotriss is the one because I, 847 00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:53,480 like I said, I'm a seeker, and I thought that 848 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,719 my work was political, and then the more that you 849 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,519 study politics, the more you cannot avoid the spiritual. So 850 00:48:02,679 --> 00:48:06,800 I am sucked back in and my way of seeking 851 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,320 is to pick up the pebbles that are on my trail, 852 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,559 like Hansel and Gretel type stories like this book. Okay, 853 00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:14,400 I'll read it and now what do I know? And 854 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,599 then this book and I'll you know, that's all I 855 00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:19,519 can do. So you are my pebble, and I picked 856 00:48:19,559 --> 00:48:22,480 you up and now I need to keep going. So 857 00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:25,440 thank you. I hope you'll come back on redacted. Jay 858 00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:27,679 Dyer has been our guest. You can find more about 859 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,199 him at jaysanalysis dot com. It's been a pleasure, absolutely. 860 00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:34,519 Speaker 2: It has a great conversation ed he had really good questions. 861 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: Oh thanks, all right, we'll talk again another time, all right,