1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. 3 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:11,679 Speaker 3: I'm a writer, consulting, producer and now podcaster. I am 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,439 now trying to use my experience as the brother of 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,399 a murder victim to help other victims of violent crime. 6 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial. 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,879 Speaker 3: Parkway murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,519 Parkway Murders Facebook group together with Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 4: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 5: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,079 in crime, Bill Thomas. 14 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 6: Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm 15 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,200 Bill Thomas. We are continuing with our coverage of Laurie 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,600 Ann Powell and the recent case break which links Ellen 17 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:57,240 Wade Wilmer Senior to her disappearance and murder in Gloucester 18 00:00:57,439 --> 00:00:58,600 in nineteen eighty eight. 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: One of the things I was very surprised by when 20 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,879 we got the news about the link that was going 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,400 to be announced regarding Lorient Powell and deceased suspect Alan 22 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:12,879 Wade Wilmer Senior. I was very surprised by how many 23 00:01:13,079 --> 00:01:16,159 reporters I spoke to over the last few days who 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,560 had not heard about this press conference. They were hearing 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,400 about it from me for the first time. That was 26 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:26,680 a surprise. Many of them expressed interest in covering this 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,879 case and they thought it was significant news, so they 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,159 jumped on it, and a number of them were there 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,319 in the room or watching online as the Virginia State 30 00:01:35,359 --> 00:01:39,480 Police walked us through this lanatest development, which is incredibly 31 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,319 exciting and a real positive development. As we talked about 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,640 last time, it may be hard to think of this 33 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:50,519 as good news for the Compton and Powell families who'd 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,359 been waiting for this kind of news for thirty seven years. 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,480 It actually is good to have answers. 36 00:01:56,239 --> 00:01:59,359 Speaker 6: This is definitely one of those times where it is 37 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,200 a little overwhelming to be us when we are juggling 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,040 this much social media, and for you, you're juggling a 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,479 lot of interviews and discussions with reporters. 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 4: We are glad to do it. 41 00:02:13,319 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 6: Because this is such welcome and needed news for Laurie's 42 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,240 family and friends as well. We've had a number of 43 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,280 her family and friends reach out on our social media 44 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:27,120 pages and comment about they're happy for this, but they're 45 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:28,560 sad for Laurie's family. 46 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 4: Of course they are. 47 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,479 Speaker 6: This is not something that as you've said before, Bill, 48 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,639 this is not the club that anybody wants to join. 49 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 4: No. 50 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: And at the same time, as I mentioned last time, 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,360 do you put together this new photo array of ten 52 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,800 victims the original eight from the Colonial Parkway murders and 53 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,680 now adding in Teresa Howell and Lauri and Powell. It's 54 00:02:50,759 --> 00:02:53,599 just hard to look at these kind of shiny young 55 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,400 bases of these people who are just starting out their 56 00:02:56,439 --> 00:03:00,719 lives and have wonderful lives and exciting opportunities ahead of them, 57 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:04,639 completely cut off for reasons that make no sense. So 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,439 we have a lot of questions from our listeners, and 59 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:11,199 we really appreciate all the expressions of support for the families, 60 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,800 particularly the Power and Compton families. 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,039 Speaker 6: We also want to make sure that people understand that 62 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:23,280 we have received so many inquiries and questions and tips 63 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,120 and hey, I knew that guy over the last couple 64 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:28,960 of days, that we are trying very hard to wade 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,400 through it all. But if we don't immediately message you back. 66 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,960 We are not in any way trying to ignore you 67 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,199 or slay you or anything else. We're just very busy 68 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:42,919 and there are only two of us who are doing 69 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,360 this social media network. The Call family has their own 70 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:49,439 page that they are running. The day to day running 71 00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:52,240 of it for Colonial Parkway Murders and mind Over Murder 72 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,319 is Bill and me, and we both have jobs outside 73 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:59,479 of running the social media and doing our investigating that's 74 00:03:59,479 --> 00:04:02,439 not really instigating. We will do our best to get 75 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:05,560 back to everybody, and we thank everybody in advance for 76 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,319 your support. 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,199 Speaker 4: And if you have. 78 00:04:07,199 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 6: Actual tips that need to go to the VSP or 79 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,919 the FBI, they need to go to the VSP or 80 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:17,199 the FBI. We cannot wade through all of them, so 81 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:19,560 please do make sure those go to the law enforcement 82 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,879 agencies that can best serve them and investigate them. 83 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,199 Speaker 4: We cannot do that at this point. 84 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 6: We personally, in the times that we have bounced back 85 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:33,360 and forth ideas about Wilmer and all of the victims, 86 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,519 we have several questions in reference to Wilmer and his 87 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,000 behavior as a confirmed serial killer, so we thought we 88 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,959 would run down those and then we will go ahead 89 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,199 and talk about the things that we would like to 90 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,560 see law enforcement do now because as people with a 91 00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:52,720 vested interest in this case, we would like to see 92 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,120 continued movement forward, and the best way to do that, 93 00:04:56,199 --> 00:04:58,959 we think, is to make sure that law enforcement is 94 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,800 aware that they're There are certain things that family members want, 95 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,199 and these are they But let's start with several questions 96 00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:08,759 that we have in reference to Wilmer and his behavior 97 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,439 as a confirmed serial killer. Our most pressing questions are these, 98 00:05:12,879 --> 00:05:15,040 did Wilmer act alone? 99 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 3: I'm fairly certain that he did not act alone. We 100 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:24,279 have heard from law enforcement about three potential accomplices who 101 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,879 have been referred to by law enforcement as Virginia Guy, 102 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,120 Carolina Guy, and out West Guy. Now we believe that 103 00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:38,800 at least one of these individuals, likely Virginia Guy, has 104 00:05:38,879 --> 00:05:44,680 provided his DNA to law enforcement for potential matches or 105 00:05:44,759 --> 00:05:48,680 to be cleared. Obviously, if he gave his DNA, I 106 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,399 would assume he's fairly confident that he's not going to 107 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:54,959 show up at any of these crime scenes. But certainly, 108 00:05:55,199 --> 00:06:00,639 the logistics of the couple's homicides in particular, always seem 109 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,480 to be so complicated, because remember, you have Wilmer or 110 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,800 another offender arriving in a vehicle, which could be a boat. 111 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,000 Then they are moving typically vehicles, cars and trucks around 112 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,879 post mortem, and the logistics of that seem to cry 113 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,920 out for a second person assisting Wilmer, let's say, in 114 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,879 moving these bodies and these cars. So I think there's 115 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:29,879 still a strong possibility that Wilmer may not have acted 116 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,519 alone in some of these examples. Now it might be 117 00:06:33,639 --> 00:06:38,439 possible in the individual murders, that is Teresa Howell and 118 00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:42,079 Lorian Powell. In terms of confirmed Wilmer victims, like it's 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,959 possible that he may have been able to move one 120 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:50,720 person by himself, the possibility of accomplices is very real. 121 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 6: Our next question would be how did Wilmer choose his victims? 122 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:58,600 And by that this traditional idea of a serial killer 123 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,759 is looking for a specific type. That's something that we 124 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,720 see with Ted Bundy. We've also had people who say 125 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,319 Bundy's type, that's just how you know, with your hair 126 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,720 parted in the middle and long straight hair. That's just 127 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:12,959 how everybody was wearing their hair in the seventies. So 128 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,959 maybe there's nothing more to it than that. Maybe a 129 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,639 bit of a misnomer to assume that all serial killers 130 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,360 have a type for their victims, a specific look. But 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,639 we are curious how did Wilmer ultimately choose his victims. 132 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Was he merely opportunistic and constantly trolling. Was he looking 133 00:07:31,639 --> 00:07:34,920 for couples and would settle for victims? Was he looking 134 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,439 for couples and would settle for individuals? What is the 135 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,120 mo here is what I would like to know. 136 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: I think Wilmer, like a lot of serial killers, was opportunistic. 137 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:46,879 To use a word that you had mentioned to me 138 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,199 off air, which is when the opportunity presents itself, he 139 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,279 will strike. I think he was always looking for potential victims. 140 00:07:55,519 --> 00:07:59,560 He might not necessarily take that next step in every 141 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,680 exam because he has to evaluate other other people around. 142 00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:05,279 Did I just see a cop car come through this 143 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:06,560 parking lot or whatever? 144 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:06,959 Speaker 2: It was? 145 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:10,079 Speaker 3: Like a lot of serial killers, he's always looking for 146 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,920 victims and evaluating opportunities as they present themselves, And I 147 00:08:15,959 --> 00:08:19,000 think that's very much what Wilmer was about. The other 148 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,480 thing is is we talked about last time. In getting 149 00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:25,680 educated by our friends in the profiling community, they have 150 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,759 reminded us that this idea of a type is probably 151 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:33,360 not applicable to a lot of serial killers much in 152 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:37,000 the same way. Wilmer, just in the cases he's confirmed for, 153 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,159 has varied his method of attack and his method of 154 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:47,480 killing his victims tremendously. We have guns, knives, strangulation, it 155 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,840 goes on. He seems to be experimenting or maybe trying 156 00:08:51,919 --> 00:08:55,120 different things, or just maybe he just enjoys killing people, 157 00:08:55,159 --> 00:08:58,320 as sad as that is. But he's definitely not doing 158 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:01,720 the same thing every single time. He's not attacking people 159 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:04,559 that are exactly the same, and he's not attacking in 160 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,879 the same way. If you look at the Colonial Parkway 161 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,679 murders victims, and I'll include ten people in that category 162 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,120 because we still suspect he's involved in the other Colonial 163 00:09:15,159 --> 00:09:18,600 Parkway murders. If you take the oldest and the youngest 164 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:22,320 people off the list, that is fourteen year old Robin 165 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,039 Edwards and my sister Kathy Thomas, who is twenty seven 166 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,360 Aldough she was a very youthful looking twenty seven. She 167 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:31,039 could have easily passed for twenty two. But if you 168 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,000 take the two of them out of the mix, just 169 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,960 for a second, then everybody else is clustered in this 170 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,519 eighteen to twenty one year age range. Lorian Powell our 171 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:47,919 latest confirmed victim. So they're extremely attractive, striking looking young people, 172 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,000 and they're almost all in that eighteen to twenty one 173 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,279 year old age bracket. Even if you throw Robin and 174 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,240 Kathy back into the mix, you've got a very young 175 00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:01,039 looking Kathy Thomas and a older and then her year's 176 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,080 fourteen year old Robin Edwards, who loved hanging out with 177 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,639 older people and tended to date older men. This is 178 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,399 a group of people I think that are fairly clustered 179 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,720 together geographically and age wise. But I think these are 180 00:10:14,759 --> 00:10:17,039 the kind of victims that Wilmer was looking for. 181 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 6: Our next question is how did he approach his victims? 182 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,159 And this is really the biggest question for us in 183 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,360 terms of execution of his plans. In the cases of 184 00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:33,639 the Colonial Parkway murders. Was he approaching his victims on 185 00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:38,360 foot like, for example, did he maybe pull his boat 186 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,639 up to shore and walk up the beach and approach 187 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,279 that way. Did he pull in with his truck into 188 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,200 a turnaround like at Ragged Island or where Kathy's car 189 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:53,600 was found and maybe turn on the brights and hem 190 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,440 them in. Did he approach on a boat like? How 191 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:00,960 did he approach his victims? And I would also add 192 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,200 with that, did he use the cop ruse that we've 193 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,120 heard about to approach his victims? We do know that 194 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:11,279 there were several instances in which wallets were out or 195 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,720 glove compartments were open. We've heard of people who had 196 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:19,360 run INDs on the Colonial Parkway with people impersonating cops, 197 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,919 and we do think that Wilmer was responsible for at 198 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:22,639 least some of. 199 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:23,879 Speaker 4: Those, if not all of those. 200 00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 6: So did Wilmer use the cop ruse to approach all 201 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:31,159 of his victims or was it only some? There's a 202 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,080 lot of questions to be had there, I think. 203 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 3: And my answer to a lot of these questions is 204 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,120 yes to all of the above. I think that Wilmer 205 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,559 was the opportunist that you talked about, and I think 206 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:47,720 he approached things in ways that made sense to him 207 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,919 at that moment. Now, we've heard numerous reports about Wilmer 208 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:56,080 approaching couples on the Colonial Parkway, and the parkway was 209 00:11:56,159 --> 00:11:58,159 famous as a place to go and make out. 210 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,919 Speaker 2: It's very quiet, very dark. 211 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 3: These pull offs, even the ones that were fairly close 212 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,960 to the surface of the Colonial Parkway pretty secluded, and 213 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,600 so teenagers knew they could go there and that would 214 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,559 be a place that you could go and be a romantic. 215 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,639 But a number of people talked about a man driving 216 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,120 this very distinctive blue green pickup drug approaching them in 217 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:21,559 a highly aggressive manner, where he was suddenly there at 218 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,120 the window. He wasn't dressed as a cop. Sometimes he's 219 00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:28,120 described as wearing overalls, which might be something that a 220 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:31,840 waterman Wilma would wear. But he would be suddenly there 221 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:35,240 at the window, pounding on the window, disrupting this couple 222 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,960 who were engaged in romance, and he's demanding driver's licenses. Interestingly, 223 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,360 in the examples I've heard about, he doesn't seem to 224 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:46,039 be asking for registrations. He's just asking for driver's licenses, 225 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:50,000 insisting you don't belong here. I need to see your license. 226 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:53,240 A number of people gave them their licenses, and then 227 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,039 they were made to feel very uncomfortable because he went 228 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,799 away with their driver's licenses, and they wanted their licenses back, 229 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,720 but they were afraid of this guy. He was highly aggressive. 230 00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:08,039 Although he was short, he was very muscular, and he 231 00:13:08,279 --> 00:13:12,000 approached them with a great deal of kind of aggression 232 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,320 and purpose, and they tended to do what he demanded. 233 00:13:15,879 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 6: We would love to know more from Wilmer's friends, family, 234 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,480 and associates about what locations he frequented when he was 235 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,120 visiting this area, and the FBI and VSP are very 236 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:30,279 interested in that information as well. Again, we ask anybody 237 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,919 who knows anything about Wilmer, no matter how small the detail, 238 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,679 please make sure that you reach out to the VSP 239 00:13:36,799 --> 00:13:39,519 and FBI tip lines. We would love to know if 240 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:44,799 he exhibited any behavior that alarmed family, friends, or associates. Really, 241 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:49,080 the two questions we have for law enforcement are why 242 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,720 was Wilmer allowed to go free even after passing a 243 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:56,639 polygraph if he was the prime suspect in the Call 244 00:13:56,759 --> 00:14:00,559 Haley case, which the FBI has acknowledged. 245 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 3: And this is one that I am so floored by 246 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:10,559 to this day. I understand that the capabilities of DNA 247 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,639 testing hadn't really come out of the lab in nineteen 248 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:19,000 eighty eight. Given how many boxes Wilmer and possibly Wilmer's 249 00:14:19,039 --> 00:14:22,720 older brother Keith checked as part of the investigation of 250 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:27,000 the Colonial Parkway murders, I just struggle with, how did 251 00:14:27,039 --> 00:14:31,399 you not revisit Alan Wade Wilmer Senior in the years 252 00:14:31,679 --> 00:14:36,399 after the Colonial Parkway murders had died down, but while 253 00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:40,519 the investigation was ongoing. Once the science caught up with 254 00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:44,279 the evidence, why in the world wouldn't they go back 255 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,559 and take a look at the most likely suspects. He 256 00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:51,240 was referred to as suspect number one. And it was 257 00:14:51,399 --> 00:14:55,039 right after Keith calling Cassandra Hadley disappeared that the FBI 258 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,039 doing a full court press looking for this missing couple 259 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,200 and acknowledged they had already had the murders of Kathy Thompson, 260 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,960 Rebeccadowski and Robin Edwards and David Nobling take place in 261 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,759 eighty six and eighty seven. Now we're up to nineteen 262 00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:12,240 eighty eight. As part of the investigation, they discover there 263 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,919 are couples who've been approached by this highly aggressive man 264 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:19,440 on the Colonial Parkway driving this very distinctive truck. So 265 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,720 it's three or four days after the call Haley disappearance. 266 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:26,360 They were already up in Lancaster County. They pull up 267 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:30,440 and they find Wilmer cleaning out his truck with water 268 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:35,399 and bleach or some other solvent. It was highly suspicious behavior. 269 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:38,759 They got a search warrant, They searched the truck, they 270 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,279 searched his home, they gave him two polygraphic examinations, one 271 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,120 he passed and one was inconclusive. But the FBI polygrapher, 272 00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:49,840 whom I spoke to within the last year or so, 273 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,120 he told me privately, we should have never let him go, 274 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,279 meaning Wilmer. How could they not go back and revisit 275 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Wilmer for decades, particularly once the DNA and the science 276 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:02,080 thereof had caught up. 277 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: They should have. 278 00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: Gone back and checked him out and gone back to 279 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:07,440 all of the early suspects. 280 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,159 Speaker 6: And I said it last episode, and I will say 281 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:16,279 it again. Teresa Lynn Spa Howell is dead because Wilmer 282 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:21,759 was allowed to go free. That is irrefutable. Terry Howell 283 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,279 was killed in July of. 284 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty nine. 285 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 6: That was after Wilmer was allowed to fall off FBI radar. 286 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:34,159 It is that overlooking that allowed Terry Howell to be murdered. 287 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:37,080 I think it really just needs to be said again 288 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,799 and again. She would not be dead if the FBI 289 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,080 had done their job. And the FBI can be mad 290 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,279 at me for that if they want to. 291 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: You're off the Christmas card list. 292 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 4: Oh, I've been off the Christmas card list. 293 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:49,039 Speaker 2: For a long Time'm me too. 294 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 4: It's okay. I think we can live with it. 295 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:53,399 Speaker 2: YEP. 296 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 6: Now, the question that everyone is asking online and the 297 00:16:58,039 --> 00:17:00,799 question that we would like to know as well, and 298 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,160 definitely the project that we will be working on for 299 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:09,640 twenty twenty six, why can't exceptions be made in policy 300 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,519 to put Wilmer's DNA in CODIS. So let's talk about 301 00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:18,640 that for a second. Because, as we explained last episode, 302 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,000 Wilmer was not a convicted felon. When he died, his 303 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,839 DNA was not in the CODIS database. DNA was only 304 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,920 taken from Wilmer for identification purposes after he died. Because 305 00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:39,119 Wilmer was never convicted of a crime a felony, his 306 00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:42,640 DNA cannot go into the CODIS system. It is only 307 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,279 the DNA of convicted felons that are allowing CODIS. During 308 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,920 Lori and Powell's press conference, that was acknowledged. So it 309 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,519 seems like the easiest thing to do would be to say, 310 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,960 get permission from the Wilmer family to load his DNA. 311 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:00,599 Speaker 4: Up in CODIS. 312 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 6: Apparently it is not that simple. We would like to 313 00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:07,680 know why isn't it that simple? And if it's not 314 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:10,400 that simple, what can we do to change that? We 315 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,519 would love to do whatever it takes, and I think 316 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:16,880 everybody out there listening would agree at this point that 317 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,640 they would do whatever it takes too. We want to 318 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,200 get a confirmed serial killers DNA put into the CODIS 319 00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:28,200 database where it belongs. He is dead, he no longer 320 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,640 has rights that needs to be protected. And there are 321 00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:34,200 families out there who are desperate for answers in their 322 00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:39,160 loved ones murders, including my podcast partner sitting right across 323 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,920 the zoom link from me. I know that more than anything, 324 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,759 Bill wants answers in Kathy's case. 325 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: There are a lot of questions and we're going to 326 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,240 try to nail these down in the coming months. One 327 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,599 of the questions is this a Virginia state law or 328 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,839 is this a federal law? And we're going to try 329 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,960 to get down to brass tacks on this. 330 00:18:59,119 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: Do we need to have. 331 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 3: The Commonwealth of Virginia introduced a bill to change the 332 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,119 rules so that Wilmer's DNA can be placed into COTIS 333 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,680 so they can do a one to many comparison and 334 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:14,160 potentially solve numerous other cold case homicides across the United States, 335 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,079 which is quite possible, particularly when we're talking about the 336 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,799 states of Virginia, Maryland, and North Carolina, where Wilmer was 337 00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:24,720 known to travel. We need to find out, and we're 338 00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:27,200 going to be working on this. Do we need to 339 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,119 be working with the legislature and our new incoming Attorney 340 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,039 general in Virginia on changing this law or do we 341 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,799 need to be going to the FEDS and talking to 342 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,720 the DOJ and having a bill introduced in Congress. We're 343 00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:43,759 not going to let this go. This is too important. 344 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,440 And Kristin, as you were saying, I can't believe that 345 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:49,880 the rights of a dead serial killer, because that's what 346 00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:54,960 he is, somehow supersede the rights of families like ours 347 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:59,319 to get answers in our loved ones unsolved murders. I'm 348 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,039 telling you Wilmer is good for a lot more than 349 00:20:02,079 --> 00:20:04,759 the four murders that he's been confirmed for. As you 350 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,119 said last time, we're highly optimistic that he will be 351 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,240 linked to other cases. But we've got to find a 352 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,440 way to respect the rights of victims here and not 353 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,000 the rights of serial killers. 354 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 4: Exactly. 355 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,799 Speaker 3: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back 356 00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:27,759 after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at 357 00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:28,680 mindover Murder. 358 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,799 Speaker 6: That brings us to our We're going to call it 359 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,559 our five point plan. What do we want to see 360 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:40,759 happen now that we have confirmation that Wilmer is responsible 361 00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:45,599 for four victims linked via DNA and probably as many as, say, 362 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,440 fourteen more. What do we want to see happen now? 363 00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:52,359 Number one, we want to see an investigation into Brian 364 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,680 Pattinger's murder by the Virginia State Police, and based on 365 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,480 some discussion that was had at the press conference, I 366 00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:02,119 assume that they are well down that shock already. Number Two, 367 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,559 we want to see local police departments with cold cases 368 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,480 investigate the possibility that Wilmer may be involved in those Chesapeake. 369 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 4: I'm looking at. 370 00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 3: You, very important. One of the things that we learned 371 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:21,559 at the press conference afterwards was that apparently the Virginia 372 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:26,200 State Police is expecting local law enforcement agencies to reach 373 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,200 out to the VSP not the other way around. 374 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:30,319 Speaker 2: Whatever. 375 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 3: I don't care, but this is a clarion call to 376 00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:39,640 every agency in Virginia that has cold cases. They should 377 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,559 be reaching out to the Virginia State Police to ask 378 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:46,559 if they can compare the evidence in their unsolved homicide. 379 00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:51,680 I'm highly confident we're going to link to other unsolved murders, 380 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,119 including murders we may not have. 381 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: Even heard about yet. 382 00:21:54,799 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 3: This needs to happen, but apparently the agency's local need 383 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:04,680 to initiate contact with the Virginia State Police. Apparently it 384 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,880 doesn't work the other way. I don't care, but this 385 00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,359 conversation needs to take place, and this means that police 386 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,920 chiefs and investigators from around the state and even surrounding 387 00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:19,039 states need to be talking to the Virginia State Police 388 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,880 now and comparing their evidence with Wilmer. 389 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 4: Right number three. 390 00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:27,799 Speaker 6: We want to see Wilmer's DNA added to the CODAS system. 391 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,920 I said and or in my notes, but let's just 392 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,680 say both. We want to see movement forward from legislators 393 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,000 and lawmakers to amend the laws governing CODIS to allow 394 00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:40,599 for someone who's been linked to a murder or multiple 395 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,720 murders via DNA but was not convicted of a. 396 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 4: Felony into the CODAS system. 397 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,839 Speaker 6: We want to see the FBI take up their cases 398 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,000 with as much zeal and dogged determination as the VSP 399 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,960 has taken on theirs. The FBI has jurisdiction over the 400 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,480 Thomastowski and Carl Haley cases, which bookend the Edwards noveling 401 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:04,319 and Powell cases. It is time for the FBI to 402 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,000 solve those cases as well. 403 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:12,599 Speaker 3: Right now, the Famili's Tomasdowski call Haley. We're hearing literally 404 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,240 nothing from the FBI. Since the new team took over 405 00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:20,960 in January twenty twenty five, they have been giving us 406 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:25,039 the straight arm. The investigators don't speak to us anymore. 407 00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:30,640 Our longtime investigator retired and when she left the FBI, 408 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:37,519 the communication stopped. We had some very odd conversations with 409 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,640 the new team. The new assistant special Agent in charge, 410 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,000 they call him an Asac. He actually refused to give 411 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,519 me his email address. I've never had this happen before. 412 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,839 This is bizarre behavior on the part of the FBI. 413 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,880 I told the senior agent how shocked I was. I 414 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,319 actually said, you're not going to get meet your email address, 415 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:05,279 and he said no. The way they're treating us is 416 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,200 so distanced, and they're just doing everything they can to 417 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,440 hold us at arm's length. It's not like things were 418 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,680 perfect with the FBI before, but at least they took 419 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,400 our phone calls and answered our emails. They wouldn't always 420 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,480 answer our questions, and we certainly butted heads behind closed 421 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,559 doors on a number of occasions, but I did feel 422 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,759 like we were taken seriously, and this new team at 423 00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:34,359 the FBI, it's like we're worthless and they want nothing 424 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,960 to do with us. Many of us in the four 425 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:42,440 families that are directly attached to the FBI are so 426 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,079 disgusted they've stopped taking any kind of communication from the FBI. 427 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,880 And right now I have a very nice young woman 428 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,400 who calls me once a month from Victims Services. Note 429 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,920 that she's not an investigator. She calls me once a 430 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,680 month to tell me she has nothing to tell me. 431 00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:02,640 I'm not joking, and that's all we get. So if 432 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,920 we have questions, they won't answer our questions. If we 433 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,559 reach out, they refer us to victim Services, and the 434 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,359 investigators are no longer communicating with the Colonial Parkway murders families. 435 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,039 Speaker 2: It's shocking how badly we're being treated. 436 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,279 Speaker 6: And that is really our fifth point here. We want 437 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:24,680 to see the FBI respond positively to the FBI families 438 00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,200 requests for a meeting to discuss the status of their 439 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,039 cases because. 440 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 4: They are owed that much. 441 00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:35,519 Speaker 6: The job of the FBI is to serve and protect, 442 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,480 and they are doing neither in the case for these families. 443 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,279 They are not serving their roles as investigators into the cases, 444 00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,039 at least not that they have shown us. And they 445 00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:51,319 are not doing their best to work with fidelity, bravery, 446 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,279 and integrity, which is after all, what the FBI is 447 00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:58,200 supposed to stand for. They are not treating these families 448 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,200 with respect, and that is the very least what they 449 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,839 are owed. After thirty nine years for Thomas Dawski and 450 00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:10,119 thirty seven years for Carl Haley, at the very least, 451 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,039 they are owed the courtesy of being told, here is 452 00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:16,000 what we have or don't have. But they do deserve 453 00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:17,920 an answer, not the strong arm. 454 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,839 Speaker 3: We have requested a face to face meeting for the 455 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,839 four FBI families. The FBI has. 456 00:26:24,839 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: Refused to meet with us. 457 00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 3: The last time they met with the four families from 458 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:37,440 the FBI is January twenty ten. This coming January, in 459 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,160 a couple of months, it'll be sixteen years since the 460 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:46,079 FBI has shown us the courtesy of meeting with the 461 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,119 families as a group. Some of us had met with 462 00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:53,440 FBI agents individually, but to have a group meeting and 463 00:26:53,519 --> 00:26:56,160 a top to bottom briefing on what the status of 464 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,079 the investigation might be, this coming January will be sixty years. 465 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,559 Speaker 4: That is our five point plan. It's not nearly as 466 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:08,559 good as the Five. 467 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 6: Points of Light or anything else from politics or history. 468 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,640 But before we get to listener questions, we again do 469 00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:20,440 want to make sure that we reiterate how important it 470 00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:24,839 is for anybody with information about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior 471 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,279 to contact the FBI or the VSP. The FBI is 472 00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:31,119 probably not going to be your best bet at this point. 473 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,880 Quite frankly, given what we've just told you, I think 474 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,319 the VSP is the way that you should go. So 475 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,799 if you have any information at all, and it does 476 00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:42,279 not matter how small and insignificant this may seem, please 477 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,839 reach out. Every little bit may be helpful. You can 478 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,640 send tips to the Virginia State Police at questions q 479 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:56,480 U E S t IO n S at VSP dot. 480 00:27:56,319 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 4: Virginia dot gov. 481 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,079 Speaker 6: And that's Virginia spelled all the way up questions at 482 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,839 VSP dot Virginia dot gov. Should you like to tip 483 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,599 your questions and tips down the black hole of the 484 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,200 FBI www dot tips dot FBI dot gov, or you 485 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,279 can call one eight hundred call FBI make sure that 486 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,000 you get that information to the correct investigating agencies. 487 00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 4: If they do not get back to you. 488 00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 6: Again, it is entirely possible that they are busy, that 489 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,200 they are investigating, that they are working very hard. We 490 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:31,640 have to assume that's what they're doing. But please don't 491 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,359 send tips to us. We do not have the ability 492 00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:37,720 to investigate. We are not investigators. We are not even 493 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,400 in the same area. Bill is in Connecticut, Kristen is 494 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,519 in Virginia. 495 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 4: But please do make. 496 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,599 Speaker 6: Sure that all of that gets to a proper investigating agency. 497 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,880 All right, I think it's time for listener questions. We 498 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,559 went ahead and posted about nine hours ago a post 499 00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:58,160 on Colonial Parkway Murder is asking for any questions that 500 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,000 listeners may have about Larian Powell or anything related to 501 00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:04,880 the Colonial Parkway murders case. We're going to read out 502 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,079 the questions. If we can answer them, we will answer them. 503 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,279 If we do not know the answer, we will tell 504 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:14,359 you we don't know the answer, and if we're speculating, 505 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,039 we will tell you that we're speculating. We're going to 506 00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:18,480 do the best we can to get through as many 507 00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:21,480 of these as we possibly can. So, first of all, 508 00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:23,720 and I'm going in the order of most recent. The 509 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,680 most recent comment is from Ellen, who asked what prompted 510 00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:29,920 local law enforcement to test Wilmer Senior's DNA and the 511 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,920 Ragged Island case. 512 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:33,119 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. 513 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,559 Speaker 3: So we're referring to Robin Edwards and David Knobling. This 514 00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:39,799 is something where I was in touch with the Edwards 515 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,720 family and the Nobling family, but in particular the Edwards 516 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,880 family because remember the DNA evidence came from Edwards rape kit. 517 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,400 We were begging, literally begging the Virginia State Police investigator 518 00:29:55,559 --> 00:30:00,880 to please test the last bit of remaining evidence in 519 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,000 the Robin Edwards rape kit. Now, over the years, Robin's 520 00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:08,680 rapekit had been tested several times, and those earlier DNA 521 00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:14,079 tests consumed more DNA than the new tests do. So 522 00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,480 there was a concern expressed by the Virginia s Day 523 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:19,720 Police and the Department of Forensic Science. And this is 524 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:23,319 a valid concern that if they conducted tests, it might 525 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:28,200 use the last bit of remaining highly degraded DNA that 526 00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:32,480 was left in Robin's rape kit. Remember, she'd been dumped 527 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,359 in the water. Her body had been in the water 528 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,240 for at least three days. It was seawater which contained salt. 529 00:30:38,759 --> 00:30:41,839 Tests had been conducted which had used a fair amount 530 00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:44,240 of the DNA, there was only a very small amount left. 531 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:49,759 I remember talking to Jeanette Edwards Santiago, Robin's sister, who 532 00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:52,640 works in the medical field, and she and I were 533 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,200 comparing notes, and obviously it's not my sister, but I 534 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,119 offered my advice. I said, I think this is worth 535 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,640 a shot, and if it's our last shot, let's take it. 536 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,599 Because times are wasting, We're not getting any younger, our 537 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,599 parents are dying waiting for answers in the Colonial Parkway murders. 538 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:11,559 Speaker 2: I think we. 539 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 3: Should proceed, and Jeannette felt the same way, and so 540 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,400 she conveyed that to the Virginia State Police. I know 541 00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:22,200 the investigator, who we hold him very high regard. He 542 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,160 was very hot to trot. He wanted to move forward 543 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,480 because he wanted to move this case forward. And there 544 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,920 were expressions of concern and kind of a bit more 545 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,000 conservative approach, and I'm not criticizing the scientists were concerned 546 00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:39,079 that the evidence would be consumed and we wouldn't have 547 00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:43,200 any more chances. Ultimately, the people that were pushing to 548 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,920 move forward prevailed, and so they sent the evidence out. 549 00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:51,119 I'm not one hundred percent certain, but I'm guessing here 550 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,119 it was DNA Labs International doing the work. They got 551 00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:58,480 a SAKI grant, the a Sexual Assault Kit Initiative grant, 552 00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:02,200 and that is what results in testing the evidence and 553 00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:06,799 lo and behold with a small, highly degraded DNA sample, 554 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,839 they got a hit and they got a CODIS hit 555 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,759 that enabled them to connect Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, who 556 00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:17,799 was deceased effective December twenty seventeen. But they got a 557 00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:22,359 match and then that resulted in them moving forward with 558 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,119 the identification. Working with the Hampton Police Department, they realized 559 00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:31,079 that the offender in the Robin Edwidge stated novelin case 560 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:34,480 was the same offender as in Teresa Howell. 561 00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:36,799 Speaker 2: So that's where we got the match of the three people. 562 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: There are may be aspects of that story that we 563 00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:42,799 don't know the rest of the details about. There was 564 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,759 a lot of question as to whether investigative genetic genealogy 565 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880 was used. That's a possibility, but they've never confirmed that. 566 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,279 Speaker 6: Let's see, we have two questions from Joanna, one of 567 00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:58,440 which we've really already answered, which is do we think 568 00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:00,960 that Wilmer had potential accomplished yes, and. 569 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 4: Which yes, we have answered. 570 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 6: And then she also asked we're Sandy and Keith the 571 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:08,559 last missing or unsolved that are associated with Wilmer, And 572 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,279 is there any thinking that he or they stopped after 573 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,319 Sandy and Keith? 574 00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: And I think she knows her answer now, which is 575 00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:21,319 know that there were several additional individual and double homicides 576 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,359 after Sandy and Keith went missing. 577 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,079 Speaker 6: Yeah, and as we said in our last episode, I'm 578 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,039 pretty convinced that Amber Lungren from nineteen ninety seven in Ashville, 579 00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:35,759 North Carolina is probably attributable to Wilmer as well. Chris says, 580 00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:37,960 stumbled across your page yesterday when I saw the news 581 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,960 about the VSP press conference scheduled for today. Yay. Please 582 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,960 make sure that you're telling all of your friends who 583 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,000 are interested that we do have a page here. Curious 584 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,240 to me about the Harding murder in Lancaster in the eighties. 585 00:33:48,279 --> 00:33:50,960 Wilmer's brother was a suspect or prison of interest in 586 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,359 that case. Yes, correct, and we said yes. He also 587 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,599 said he loves the podcast, so thank you. Paul asks us, 588 00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:00,359 can this fourth confirm wilmer murder in any way clear 589 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,480 the obstacles for his DNA being run in codis And 590 00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:07,079 the answer, unfortunately is no. It cannot, but we are 591 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,079 going to work on that. That is going to be 592 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,800 our That's going to be our Everest. That's going to 593 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,920 be our Everest. Or is it K two that's higher 594 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,519 than Everest? 595 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: No, because it's K two that it's the second highest. 596 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 6: All right, So yeah, that's that is going to be 597 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,679 our Everest. We are going to try to make sure 598 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,079 that is something that we work on. 599 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 3: I'm about to break into my best Vince Gille impression 600 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,599 and start singing, go rest high on that mountain. Maybe 601 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:36,599 that's a bad idea. 602 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,199 Speaker 4: Do it, No, do it? Do it? 603 00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 3: I can't sing do it. I certainly can't sing like 604 00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:42,880 Vince Gill. 605 00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 6: Debbie, our research assistant, asked what other cases have people 606 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,519 questioned as possibly being committed by Wilmer. But we just 607 00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:52,920 went over that whole entire thing for Debbie. 608 00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 3: There's one little more case from twenty seventeen that Peggy 609 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,559 Lammers near Deltaville, Virginia. I think that's a long shot 610 00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,880 because this would have been very late in Alan Wade 611 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,360 Wilmer Senior's life. He died a few months later after 612 00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:12,800 Peggy Lammers was killed at her home near the water 613 00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:18,000 in Deltaville, I don't think the Peggy Lammers' murder is 614 00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:21,920 the work of Wilmer because he was very ill by 615 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,639 that point, and I don't think he would have been 616 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:27,159 physically strong enough to have committed that murder at her 617 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,239 waterfront home. 618 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,599 Speaker 6: Holly says, is there any information on who Alan Wade 619 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,280 Wilmer Senior was known to associate with? Places he was 620 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,599 known to frequent? Was he seen at the CNU party 621 00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:39,559 that night? Was he living nearby to the CNU party? 622 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,000 Is there any evidence that Keith and Issandra may have 623 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,639 stopped at the Little Sue convenience store on Route seventeen 624 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,199 on the way to take Cassandra home. 625 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 4: Lots of questions. 626 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's see if we can go through those one 627 00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:50,679 at a time here. 628 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 6: Okay, Is there any information on who Wilmer was known 629 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,519 to associate with? 630 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,199 Speaker 3: Something we're working on. A lot of people seem to 631 00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:00,360 feel that he didn't have a lot of friends. Now, 632 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,719 he had a small circle of friends up in Lancaster. 633 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,519 He and his wife later ex wife, had a circle 634 00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:12,599 of friends. We'd been trying to pin down more information 635 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,960 about people that he hung out with. We know that 636 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:19,400 he rented a room from a man named Ricky Blaylock, 637 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,519 which is a boarding house type situation where different people 638 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,719 rented rooms. He and Blaylock hung out a lot together. 639 00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:30,719 We're trying to make other determinations about who he hung 640 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,199 out with. 641 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:31,639 Speaker 2: Now. 642 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 3: One interesting tidbit is that Theresa Howell was last seen 643 00:36:37,079 --> 00:36:40,280 at the Club Zodiac, which is an after hours club. 644 00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:44,599 We don't know whether Wilmer may have seen her outside 645 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,880 the after hours club. She had been drinking that night. 646 00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:52,079 She had a car that was having some problems, so 647 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,519 she may have needed a ride, and she may have 648 00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:59,559 accepted a ride with Wilmer. She encountered Wilmer, it sounds 649 00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,239 inside or outside the Club Zodiac. Her body was found 650 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,239 a few miles away at a construction site near Thomas 651 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:13,199 Nelson College. That's a real open question. I am very 652 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,599 intrigued by the Club Zodiac and actually if any of 653 00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:20,880 our listeners have more information or if they ever hung 654 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,199 out there. This was a place where people would go 655 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,440 after the bars were closed. Ostensibly it was a membership club. 656 00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:33,519 My understanding is that the rules regarding membership were pretty loose, 657 00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:35,519 so you could go in if you were with a 658 00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:37,960 member or that sort of thing. But it was the 659 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,920 bar that you went to after the regular bars had closed. 660 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,159 If you weren't done drinking by one or two o'clock 661 00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:47,440 in the morning, you could go to the Club Zodiac. 662 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,719 I think there's a possibility that some of this activity, 663 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,599 and perhaps Wilmer, Ron Little and perhaps other accomplices might 664 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,280 have been running into one another at an establishment like 665 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,199 Club Zodiac. 666 00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. Good question. 667 00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 6: As to the CNU party, boy, would we love to 668 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,039 talk to people at the CNU party. Please, if you 669 00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:14,239 were at the Heritage Square apartment party, let us know. 670 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:16,320 We hear from people every once in a while who 671 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,039 were like, yeah, I was at that party, but we 672 00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:21,159 really would like to know, especially, is there anybody here 673 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,400 who has photos from that night at the party? You know, 674 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,679 anybody who was at that Heritage Square apartment party that 675 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,480 night at CNU, Please let us know. If you saw 676 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:32,320 Roun Little there, we'd love to know. If you saw 677 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,360 Steve Blackman there, we'd love to know. If you saw 678 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,320 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior there, we'd love to know. Yes, 679 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,960 please let us know. We don't have any evidence right 680 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,320 at the moment that he was there, but if anybody 681 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,159 knows something to the contrary, hit us up. 682 00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 4: We would love to know. 683 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 3: Just a reminder of our younger listeners. Remember we're talking 684 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,719 about a pre digital environment here, so this isn't like 685 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:57,360 these days everybody's carrying a phone with it, typically a 686 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:01,039 pretty decent little camera in there. It's very rare to 687 00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,519 go to a party or other get together without somebody 688 00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:07,440 whipping out a cell phone and taking some pictures. They 689 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,760 call them selfies. Back then. I know this sounds like 690 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,400 I'm a million years. 691 00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 4: Old, me too. It's fine. 692 00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 3: This isn't something that was very common, So pictures taken 693 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,039 at a party is a much more kind of rare thing. 694 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,559 Much in the same way when we speak to school 695 00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:29,639 groups or when we give our mind o our murder 696 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,360 live events, we have to remind people there weren't cell phones, 697 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,079 there was no internet. This sounds like I'm talking about 698 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,159 it sounds like the Stone Age the eighteen eighties instead 699 00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:43,079 of the nineteenies, nineteen eight But it was a very 700 00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:45,679 different environment in terms of like image capture. 701 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,639 Speaker 6: Jessica asked us to review some of the other murders 702 00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:50,440 he could be linked to, which we have just done. 703 00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:52,159 Speaker 2: Think we've done that, let's. 704 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,199 Speaker 6: See Jamie again asks is it possible to change the 705 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,800 law for DNA submission hope, So we would like to 706 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,000 do that, and then they ask can we get something 707 00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:07,639 spearheaded to start that process. As soon as we know 708 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,039 how to start that process, we will let all of 709 00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:14,440 it and we will crowdsource the hell out of write 710 00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:15,800 letters to your legislator. 711 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,159 Speaker 4: Well, absolutely do that. 712 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,519 Speaker 3: We've got to figure out whether we're focusing on the 713 00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:22,639 Commonwealth of Virginia to change their rules, or if this 714 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,480 is at the federal level. Do we need to be 715 00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:28,920 working on Congress. Lord knows, it would be nice to 716 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,639 see something good come out of our various legislative bodies. 717 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 6: This question is from Penny and it's why doesn't the 718 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,320 Wilmer family let his DNA be used to be put 719 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,000 into CODIS if they want to help the families get answers. 720 00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:43,719 That's not really the question we should be asking. 721 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 4: Bill. You want to clarify real quick it. 722 00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 3: First of all, it wouldn't be up to the Wilmer family, 723 00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:51,840 I think. And the second thing is I've spoken to 724 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,719 members of the Wilmer family and they're open to this. 725 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,519 The Wilmer family are not the problem. If anything, you 726 00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:03,639 can make case that the Wilmer family are victims just 727 00:41:04,039 --> 00:41:08,559 like our loved ones are. We have no acts to 728 00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:12,480 grind whatsoever with the Wilmer family. They have been incredibly 729 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:18,159 cooperative and kind. They reached out to me after the 730 00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:22,360 story broke about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior being involved in 731 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,559 the Robin Edwards, David Nobley, and Teresa Howell cases. My 732 00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:29,440 phone started ringing with some numbers I didn't recognize from Virginia. 733 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:32,079 I took the calls because I take calls from Virginia. 734 00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:36,360 These very nice people tentatively introduced themselves and said, you 735 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,920 don't know who I am. But interestingly, I actually did 736 00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:43,039 know who they were because we'd already started researching Alan 737 00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:46,599 Wade Wilmer Senior, and so we knew a bit about 738 00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:49,679 him and his background and even who his family members were. 739 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,039 Speaker 2: So when these very nice. 740 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 3: People called, and they were maybe a little tentative, I 741 00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:57,760 don't know how they thought we would respond. It turned 742 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,679 out that the family members were listening to my murder. 743 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,159 Then that's how they figured out who we were, and 744 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,039 they called, and they were incredibly kind and wanted to 745 00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:11,000 do anything they could. They feel terrible about what's happened. 746 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,599 None of this is their fault. His two kids were 747 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,800 eight and ten years old at the time of the 748 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,159 Colonial Parkray murders. Of course, now we have to add 749 00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,239 a few years. They're in their forties, I would say. 750 00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:24,400 Incredibly nice people and they want to be as helpful 751 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:25,000 as they can. 752 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 2: They have been. 753 00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,679 Speaker 3: They will not stand in our way if we end 754 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,519 up pursuing the idea of putting Wilmer's DNA and a cootis, 755 00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:35,960 They're very open to it. If anything, they'd like to 756 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:39,159 see if there are other cases that Allan Waide Wilmer 757 00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:41,280 Senior is going to be linked to. They'd rather just 758 00:42:41,599 --> 00:42:43,960 get it done and get it, get it over with 759 00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:46,039 so they can get on with their lives. I'm not 760 00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:48,880 speaking for them, but we have discussed this. 761 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,679 Speaker 6: There have been times here and onmind of a murder 762 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,000 when people have expressed this idea. We don't know where 763 00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:57,400 they got it from. That they think the Wilmer family 764 00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:00,599 is in the way, or that they're trying to defend 765 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:03,800 their father something that is the furthest thing from the case. 766 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,960 They are lovely people who have been nothing but supportive. 767 00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:10,719 And again, none of these people had any idea that 768 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,039 their father or ex husband in the case of his 769 00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:16,400 ex wife, they had no idea he was a serial killer. 770 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 4: This was a shock to them. 771 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,119 Speaker 6: I absolutely don't ever want people to get the idea 772 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:24,480 that the Wilmer family is standing in our way in 773 00:43:24,639 --> 00:43:26,920 any way. They are not, and we want to be 774 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,760 as supportive to them as possible because this is a 775 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,199 hard thing for them to go through. It's got to 776 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,039 be because you suddenly are upending everything that you know 777 00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,000 about someone that you really loved and cared about, and 778 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,960 that kind of cognitive dissonance that doesn't go away overnight. 779 00:43:41,079 --> 00:43:44,199 Speaker 4: That's something something you need therapy for. My God. 780 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, we don't ever want anyone to get the idea 781 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,960 that the Wilmer family has been anything less than very helpful, 782 00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:55,679 because they've been lovely the whole time. We have much more, so, 783 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,119 much more to talk about in this case, but for 784 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,760 the moment, we're going to steer to a close. Please, 785 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:10,159 for everybody who has expressed wonderful good thoughts toward the families, 786 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,239 all of the Parkway families, and toward the Powell and 787 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,519 the Compton families, thank you so much for your kind 788 00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:19,199 thoughts and your well wishes. It really does help the 789 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,320 families to hear these things. For anyone who is expressing 790 00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:27,320 that they have tips in information about Wilmer. Please make 791 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,000 sure that you send that to the correct investigative agency, 792 00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:33,840 and please make sure that you are staying tuned here 793 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,920 at Mindover Murder for more information. If you have questions 794 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,519 for us, comment on our social media pages, and if 795 00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:42,559 you like the work that we're doing, because we are 796 00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:45,880 trying very hard to make this a good informative podcast 797 00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:48,800 and good informative social media pages, please do us a 798 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,079 favor and leave us a five star rating and review 799 00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:54,440 wherever you listen to our podcasts. And to wrap up, 800 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,239 if you want more information on the Colonial Parkway murders, 801 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,599 you can follow our Facebook page, follow our mind Over 802 00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:03,840 Murder page. Read a Special Kind of Evil by Blaine 803 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,199 Pardo and Victoria Hester, Catch the Lover's Lane murders on Oxygen, 804 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,360 or watch American Detective with Joe Kenda wherever you get 805 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,159 your streaming services. That is going to do it for 806 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,119 this episode of mind Over Murder. Thank you so much 807 00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,679 for listening. We'll see you next time. 808 00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:35,599 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 809 00:45:35,679 --> 00:45:37,119 Another Dog Productions. 810 00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 811 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 812 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,519 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 813 00:45:47,039 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 814 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 3: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 815 00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:57,679 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page in the Colonial Parkway 816 00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,639 Murders on Facebook. 817 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 3: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 818 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,039 Bill Thomas. 819 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 2: Five six. 820 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.