Speaker 1: It's the lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and carn
s e O and JP Sorrow.
Speaker 2: He's a lapsed fan and all my years and wrestling.
Speaker 3: I never seen anything.
Speaker 2: And it's the laps fan man like the one in
the ring.
Speaker 3: Forget about Sado. He the real king of swing. When
the bell goes in the kick like me throwing in
the corner, but gets rash like stick even Jerry King
gets take off. The crowd nodded in his head like
its Steve low Brown. Would you get low down? We
go even high up?
Speaker 4: Flipp you on your head, But you know cool driver,
you speak more and Dragon spits fire give you more
shock than when he treats higher drop a more truth
than the.
Speaker 5: Con of sniper unless you with a coconut, Roddy Pipper
Jack a JP. He like j h D drop the
cupcakes and gold the brain Bob means the best podcast
Frost start the close cloud if you are I've been.
Speaker 3: He's a classic and pose.
Speaker 6: We've called Sid many things over the years, but as
we get to the portion of his run where he
made it the World Wrestling Federation for the first time
in nineteen ninety one, I just can't shake my year's
long obsession. In fact, probably if you can consider it
something that formed in this era in my childhood, probably
a lifelong obsession with Why do I always say the
Revolutionary Sid Justice. Yes, if we have kicked this around
for years on the cast, and if you don't know
the genesis of it, it's just for some reason. As
a kid, I swore they framed him on television when
he first came in as the baby face said Justice
as the Revolutionary Sid Justice. Now I don't know. I mean,
this is also someone who thought VK thunder Wiger was
a WCW wrestler. As I look at the custom Hasbro
created by a member of the Solar System as a
Christmas gift of the irs, has Bro with fucking juice
and liger Head peace on.
Speaker 3: But it's just this is it?
Speaker 6: This is that's all to say that this is the
ninety one ninety two blue tight Sid Justice to Sid
Justice to heel. Yes, from an enabler and a helper
and an ally of Hulkogan to a WrestleMania opponent an enemy.
I mean, honestly, that's why we're here, That's why where
it really is. It's it's it's it's it's you know this,
it's funny how and and.
Speaker 3: You know, these feuds, these feuds more than and this
time period, more than anything, these were the the feuds
that really sunk in, you know, for some reason, even
though you know, you think about this run being so short,
and it is, it's less than a year, but these
were monumental moments that made like, to me, Hogan and
Sid were the quintessential foes because of this. And it's
the reason why even though this was you know, the
only program they had was from the you know, SummerSlam
ninety one until that Saturn Night's main event, but Savage
and Jake Roberts, right, it's like they never wrestled again
after that.
Speaker 6: We're setting for our generation, which is the generation that
supports this whole nostalgia wrestling podcast Boom, by the way,
didn't see a lot of nostalgia pods for the eighties
doing the kind of numbers the Hasbro Kid ended up doing,
creating an entire industry. Basically, it's the archetypes for a
certain type of face versus a certain type of heel.
Sid and Hogan and Randy and Jake Yep, yeah, that's
pretty much and you can see the world in those
four characters. I'm not saying they were the best, but
I'm saying what they the positions they occupied to us
as fans in that era are the positions pretty much
any heel you can think of in any face you
can think of an American wrestling and occupied if they
were successful.
Speaker 3: And also too, when you think about the fact that
that Rick Flair, you know, with champion from the Royal
Rumble until WrestleMania and that's it. Really you know, he
was champion for like two months, but it seemed like
a lifetimes.
Speaker 6: Things just simmered on the stove.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's the it's the same broad strokes
as why you know, everything was pretty much better because
everything had time to marinate. You know, anyone who enjoys
fine cuisine knows anyone who enjoys fuck fine cuisine. Anyone
who enjoys well cooked food knows the difference. They know
low and slow on anyone who enjoys cuisine right, low
and slow. That's right, And if the business is set
up to not allow low and slow, it is by
definition inferior to the former presentation.
Speaker 3: That's correct.
Speaker 6: You're not holding it against the current presentation that it
has to be that way. We get the market conditions
and understand that the fans don't care. But I'm telling
you it used to be a much more satisfying fan experience.
That's why we stand here. That's why we have the
audience we do. That's why Conrad has the audience he does.
That's why anybody who talks about wrestlers from this era
have the audience that they do. Because it was pitch
perfect in terms of sinking in your brain. Well, we
were preparing for this episode, I said, hey, boss, you
know this is I thought, this is a wild shot?
Speaker 7: Is it?
Speaker 6: Are there WWF magazine articles maybe like one from when
Sid was a face when he first came into WWF
and then Sid as a as a heel after returned
on Hogan that that you would you might, you know,
remember from your childhood that we could bring up in
this episode, like instantaneously, Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no question, They're right there, they're ready, and.
Speaker 6: There's not an article that anybody's going to think of
that's a fan in twenty twenty four, in fifteen years,
that epitomizes what it meant to be a fan of wrestling,
at that point in time, there will be no such thing.
And that's inferior for sure. And that's inferior. So here
we are, and you were ready, you ready to go,
and oh yeah, we're going to unload. I'm actually going
to send one to you. Become tasty. The first one
I purposely didn't ask him what it was going to
be until we hit record.
Speaker 3: That's right. So the first one actually is from the
December nineteen ninety one issue of the ww magazine with
Sid on the cover, and the first said w w
F magazine cover. Ever, Yeah, I believe so, I believe so.
I don't think he had any I don't think he
did any stuff leading up to SummerSlam that I that
I'm Noah. But I remember this cover very well, very vividly,
because it was one of the covers where they would
kind of when they were to offer uh back issues
or they would talk about, you know, you need to
subscribe to w w WE magazine. It was it was
one of these, oh that's insane, how big this file is?
That's acceptible.
Speaker 6: Actually, the all scams aren't credit equal from a bandwidth perspective.
I've noticed this.
Speaker 3: I'm going to see if I can just give you
the time, but you're ready to go.
Speaker 6: You're ready to fire instantly. Oh yeah, Sid was that
kind of guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had. I mean, there was there was this
dread of mine as a as a fan that he was.
I can remember all the magazines that he was that
he was featured in all of them because they were
so they were so monumental to me and uh and
my my fandom.
Speaker 6: And I like, how you put fear on it, because
in preparing for this, you know, part of his career
as part of our Sid tribute here at TLF, it did.
It did start to ring in my mind what you
were talking about with fear. At first, I was like, really, like,
you know, Sid turning on Hogan created a fear and
he was a fan. And when I went back and
kind of revisited how he turns on Hogan, the things
he does to Jabroni's on the way to WrestleMania Aid,
the way he presents himself on promos, how psychotic he
gets with Harvey Whippleman at his side, I'm like, yeah,
you know, there was fear. There was fear that this
guy was not going to register Hogan's offense.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, he there was a I mean not
only that, but there was a uh uh it felt
like he he he would not, He just wouldn't. Hogan
couldn't do anything against him. Yeah, is what it felt like.
It felt that's and again he felt in that regard.
He felt dangerous and.
Speaker 6: In a different way than even Undertaker, who was, you know,
invincible to everything. It wasn't even similar. But it was
like Sid wasn't dead, he wasn't supernatural. He was just
this guy that like that, just Hogan could not you know, puncture.
Right when he choked slams Hogan, it wrestlemaniated, who's your dumb?
You know that moment? Yes, he cuts him off. Hogan's
like running wild for a second. He cuts him off
and choke slams him. It came right back to me
watching it preparing for this episode. I'm sure we went
nuts about it when we did WrestleMania eight ten years
ago in the archives as part of the thirty week
WrestleMania Journey. That that that's where your heart sinks as
Holk the maniacurate, oh fuckes like this guy just shut
Hogan down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a it's a very it's a petrifying
yep in that in that especially as a as a fan,
as a Hogan fan, as a as a man, as
I said, someone who was who was rooting for the
baby face, you know these this is essential. Uh uh,
it's it's it's like, wait a minute, what the fuck?
What the fuck?
Speaker 6: And we act like Survivor Series ninety six is kind
of like the first time that that rabid fan base
just kind of punctures through the narrative and cheers Sid
destroying the squeaky clean baby face. I'll tell you at
who's your nome, which of course is you know, the
biggest crowd Sid ever worked in front of those people.
I mean there were there were Sid rules the world
signs on the hard camera side close enough to it,
and when he choked slams Hogan. The people that want
to see a change, the people that that booed when
Hogan pull said out of the ninety two rumble and
almany just a few months prior, those people were there
in spirit and they were loud yes, and they were like,
this is what we want to see happened to Haul Cogan.
Speaker 3: This is the man, this is what we want. We
want to see this person take.
Speaker 6: Over and it's so amazing that, like Vince, as we
talked about last weekend, as we'll talk about this week,
brings in sid under the guise of Hogan's spot. Right,
Hogan's spot is available to you said, if those are
the terms that you're going to come in on, and
that of course is a babyface role. As circumstances morph,
he becomes a heel for the WrestleMania match. But still
when he turns heel is when you can hear some
of the most vocal crowd support for him replacing someone
at top of the card. If he was the top
babyface i'llah like Alex Luger, And they presented him that way,
which as we'll get to they really tried to in
the early stages of him is said Justice Justice. The
reason they gave him that name was it's a babyface name. Remember,
he's going to come to bring justice to the World
Wrestling Federation, right exactly. He was going to do on
behalf of hul Cogan. But it's after that, it's when
he starts with the black trunks and just destroying people
that you actually hear a crowd reaction tant him out
to someone that could be top of the card. The
said Justice who came in before turning Hill was not
top of the card necessarily. I mean, certainly he would
have been in main events, but I don't think anyone
would have thirsted for him to succeed as much as
they as much as that Voe local subculture of fans
did if he remained a face and an ally of
Hulk Cochin through that time. But as we'll get to
is very quickly, the bloom was off the rose. As
it regards Sid and WWS, I do.
Speaker 3: Want to say too, uh. You know, there was the
question and the actually made me think so regarding Bo
his twin brother, when you know when he was in WCW,
was he was Bow Bow vicious?
Speaker 6: I didn't, no he I mean I had the Galub
Sid but yeah, but I played with the Galube Sid
as Sid Justice the w W a wrestler, and I
played with the two Sid Justice has bros. As like
a separate tag team. I see it was as if
it wasn't as if one half of the Justice Brothers
was the guy who wrestled Hulk Cochin and WrestleMania eight
that for some reason was the said vicious Galube. I see,
which we failed to mention last week. By the way,
are you aware that there's a UK sid galube with
with with a pink sing glead on. Yes, I've seen it.
I mean, fucking hell, boss, it's crazy. What what what's
going on over there? I know, I know, Josh, the
figure the UK, the UK glubs are are really remarkable.
And then we had a lot of them. They have
the free birds, they had a lot of ones. We
didn't get Dustin Dustin Rhoades, you know, just a whole
line of And there's a pink sid looking at me
the other day on my Google search, like what.
Speaker 3: It's not okay. It's not okay that you couldn't access.
Speaker 6: That, right, it's not okay that I had no idea
until this age that it existed, and that right, I
had not a prayer pre Internet of ever getting my
hands on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Never, you never would have been able to, like,
you know.
Speaker 6: That's another thing, by the way, in twenty years, nobody's
going to look up something and say, oh my god,
that existed. I had no idea, yep, because you always
have an idea the world.
Speaker 3: That's right, there's nothing special and.
Speaker 6: Things are manufactured with that knowledge in mind. Things just
things are marketed with the knowledge that every single person
whoever might want to buy this is going to be
sort of micro targeted from an advertising and marketing perspective.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 3: Yep, it's like you're.
Speaker 6: Gonna know about it because they know the age you
have to be to care about this new figure that
they're rolling out, because they come out with figures based
on studies of like, yes, who has the biggest propensity
to spend? Who who's aged into actually having an income
to afford fucking one hundred and fifty dollars action figures?
Speaker 3: So ridiculous.
Speaker 6: We're a very strange place, boss, And I don't know
what the other side of it looks like, but going
through it is a very strange, strange situation.
Speaker 3: So then I actually wanted one more thing about the
the Bo Justice Brothers. So obviously there was no then
there was no Psycho Sid. There was no like Biko
Biko by Bo or something. Now you know, there wasn't Bow. Yeah, yeah,
it's a great point. I didn't bother to update, Like
when I played with my SID toys, even in ninety six,
I was still thinking about Sid Justice in WWF and
Sid vicious and ww artists not thinking that Psycho Sid
I was not slotting them that way in anyway. Someone
made a great point, and we'll get to a feedback
episod eventually because people are writing great letters about Sid.
We're seeing them and we're loving them. Just in case
you're wondering, and please send your recollections on his the
meaning of his career to the lapsed fan at gmail
dot com.
Speaker 6: But a great point. I mean, Hogan, the first Hogan
Hasbro had the same body slam motion that the Sid
Hasbro had. Yes, but for Hogan it was a body slam,
and for Sid it's a power bomb. Yes, and that's
problematic to me, Yes it is. It is definitely problematic.
There's no there's no question about that. It's but that's
what they did.
Speaker 3: I mean, and I do believe even that the that
the arms are actually the same too, They're the same
right arm mold I bet.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm thinking about it. That probably was the
best body type for Sid though of all the Hasbro
body types.
Speaker 3: Uh oh yeah, I think so. I think it would
have been. It wouldn't have been as good had you know,
I can't imagine another I mean, I guess, yeah, no,
not even like one of the I was trying to
think of, like in terms of picking up someone in
the power bomb with that, you know, with a figure
like I suppose you could do it with the with
the arm with the spring in it, the spring loaded arm. Yeah,
but I still don't think it would have been as
like it really worked with him. I thought he, I
may Sid do great power bombs with the Hasbro one
before his head fell off.
Speaker 6: And the reason we thirsted for that Hasbro this run,
as short as it was, this run and as much
more meaningful to his career accomplishments his ninety six ninety seven,
ninety seven run was I was on go ninety eight
that to stop myself. This, even though it was much
more truncated, you know, was the run that burned him
into fans' minds in such a way that he could
come back and be an impact player. Yes, in ninety
five and in ninety six. So we have to, really,
I think, take our time and observe what exactly happened
here with Sid in such a short period of time
to have basically you know, caught fire to where he
would just be able to write his own check for
the rest of his life. I mean what he did
come back in ninety five, he was sort of, as
he put it, on the whipping post, there was sort
of like a tail between my legs because I stabbed
narn Anderson. You know, there's nowhere else for me to
make big money in the business kind of situation. But
it is only a matter of time before he was
on top again. You know, that's the thing about Sid
like he knows that even if you come in trying
to slot him below, eventually something's gonna happen where you've
got to push a guy that looks like that, right
of course, if you're working for Vince mcmannon. But you know,
the same thing went for WCW as well when he
came in to WCW after the late nineties run. But
you know, it's funny. It seems so far away the
episode of RO nineteen ninety seven that we structured this
tribute show around. We will get there, we assure you,
But as always, Ta Left takes its fucking time.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's right.
Speaker 6: Let's sit there and you will fold your hands and
you will listen while class is in session, and you'll
keep your fucking mouth shut. In terms of any other suggestions. Sid,
Sid's the fucking teacher, okay in this one. Yeah, exactly.
We're going about this tribute show precisely as Sid would
go about anything in his life, exactly, dictating all terms
at all times and threatening to leave if anybody makes
a dank ors.
Speaker 3: And also listen, he's keeping a very close eye on
the Viennas and.
Speaker 6: We will not hesitate to disappear and play softball if
you piss us off either, So keep that in mind.
But yeah, in terms of the Viennas, I mean people
people forget about the Vienna's is that it's it's a
quid pro quote system.
Speaker 8: You sent my church a case Vienna sausages and I
sent him an autograph picture.
Speaker 6: Right that on a Sean Moody interview where he gave
a shout out to some guy in Pennsylvania, he gives
his almost exact address on the air in his full.
Speaker 8: Name, such a he sent my church a case of
Vienna sausages, and I sent him an autograph picture.
Speaker 3: A case of Vienna's.
Speaker 6: So I think you text if I'm not mistaken, when
you texted me a picture of Viennas, that was you
in in the supermarket I was in the supermarket. You're
not the only person in this position after our part one. Huh,
tell him the story. You're not the only person in
this position after our part one.
Speaker 3: So I'm just I'm walking through the I'm walking through
the grocery store and uh and all. And you know,
it's like, I never really, I never noticed them before.
I never noticed Vienna sausages before at all. But you know,
I'm in whatever canned food section that that that the
viennas are in, and I'm like, holy shit, look at
them all. There's so many. It's a key form of sustidence.
I guess it is not my sustenance. But we have
these these.
Speaker 6: Pop top events at the church. Oh my god, somebody
in the solar system, you know, actually found like the
church is listing for the food drive, and Sid was
constantly referencing his church in Memphis there. It's just amazing
that it came down to so many viennas. Still have
in my mind that sort of like relief painting of
him looking forlornly on a full garage of undelivered viennas
at three point thirty in the morning, realizing what this
means and what he has to.
Speaker 3: Do next, hands and his hips, just staring at them.
Speaker 6: Pasture, his hands hanging by his side. Almost, he's almost
he's almost christ Like on the cross, you know, with
a hung head. You know, the hands aren't up, the
hands are down, but the head is similar and that
it's kind of bowed and and sort of you.
Speaker 3: Know, so depressed, so angry. Yeah, just he's just he
just realized, I'm sure of what to do with all
these Vienna's.
Speaker 6: He's unsure. He just knows that now he's got to
really ramp up the pressure to get these now, you know.
He he you know, we told himself he wouldn't have
to it wouldn't have to come to this, right.
Speaker 8: He trusted Frank, He said, my church a case of
Vienna sausages, and I sent him an autograph picture.
Speaker 6: Kind of pissed that we missed the opportunity to get
an autograph picture.
Speaker 3: That's true. If I if I had known all it
took was sending Vienna sausages, I would have I would
have done that.
Speaker 6: Certainly would have kept him for myself. I can tell
you that much package of crackers, ball water. That's how
he says it. Oh my God, and the moon pile
or oatmeal.
Speaker 3: Pie poon, tang pile, the whole fucking thing. Shit.
Speaker 6: So the challenge is out. I led with this for
a reason. If anybody in the Solar system can find
me an isolated clip from WWF television where they refer
to him as the revolutionary one or the revolution or
even say the word revolutionary about Sid, well we'll figure
out some kind of Maybe we'll send you some viennas.
I don't know your box of viennas, definitely give you
a shout out, because I was sort of like animated
by the possibility that if I went through Sid's WWF run,
especially this first one, which is where it had to
have come from, because I remember.
Speaker 3: Saying, I thought you actually said to me once that
it came from his final WCW run.
Speaker 6: That wouldn't make any sense because I was calling him
the revolutionary when I was a.
Speaker 3: Little kid, no kidding, all right, because I always remember
you putting it because he was something having to do
with the fact that he was what the millennium man
or something like that, he was the millennium man, yep.
And then because then I have him, you know, if
you remember in my uh I actually started calling Sid
in In No Mercy. He you know, I had a
a created version of six because they didn't have him
in the game, and I listed him as the revolutionary
Sid Justice. And but then, but then I also made
a version of him. You could, you can make four versions,
remember on one on one body. And so I created
a version of him wearing the singlet from w CW
and I called him the pre revolutionary Sid Vicious.
Speaker 6: It was before you were right, when this was still
a Commonwealth we still answered to the British crown.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that that was the UK Glube one, the pre
revolutionary one.
Speaker 3: That's right. It's exactly what it was.
Speaker 6: Just you know, I thought revolutionary. I thought I would
stumble upon it. I thought I thought it'd stumble upon
a thread I could pull going back through his run
for this tribute episode where I could finally isolate where
he was called the revolutionary one.
Speaker 3: And I couldn't do it. I didn't find it. So
we turn it over to I bet it's on some
you know, episode of like Superstars or something. Had to
be and I felt like it was said. I felt
like it was said in a positive tone, So it
had to be when he was a Babyface. Yeah, yeah,
so there you go.
Speaker 6: The gauntlet's been laid down on the on the revolutionary front.
As it regards our old pal Sid, We're here to
figure out what his career meant. And you know, do
what we do here when we lose somebody that's a
core memory to the cast of characters that set us
on this irretrievable road of wrestling obsession for the rest
of our lives. No matter what it is we try
to do to to regulate it or mitigate it, we
keep coming back to this true north of the Hasbro
era and Sid played a huge part in that. And
we're about to hear in the pages of the in
House magazine what, among the other things we'll be talking
about on this episode, the WWF soft fit to communicate
about Sid, how they wanted us to feel about Sid.
And somewhere in New Hampshire, the boss Man was sitting
down with this magazine and I'm sure.
Speaker 3: I was too.
Speaker 6: Well, as you read it, perhaps I'll get familiar taking
in I will.
Speaker 3: So this is this is the interview. So I'm going
to need you to read. Oh, this is one of
those Q and as. Yeah, this is a Q and
a thing okay, great, Yeah, we still love those. It's
so great.
Speaker 6: I used to read those with so much intent intent.
All right, so they're numbered, I see.
Speaker 3: There we go.
Speaker 6: Yeah, talk with Sid Justice WWF interview And this again
is decemmer to anyone, decemmer to any one at the
Survivor series. Sid Justice will have the opportunity to settle
this differences with Jake the Snake once and for all.
Now I'm going to constantly interrupt myself and interrupt you,
as everybody knows, that match didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Did not happen? Well yeah, well you know it wasn't
supposed to be one on one. It was supposed to
be Sid captaining the team of Big boss Man and
legiing to Doom against Jake Irwin and the natural Disasters.
Speaker 6: And who ended up replacing Sid and said match none.
They just they it went down to being a three
on three excellent, which is the only time it's ever
Tarvisary's history it's been a six man tag instead of
an eight or a five man massive. Yeah, as massive
as I never knew that either. I never knew that
Sid that that that they kind of because he had
it was like a he broke his arm or something
torn bicep, SID torn by set and he did it.
If I'm putting the post pieces together quickly in a
match against Jake Roberts. It was not a fan of Sids,
and the feeling was mutual. The feeling was very much mutual.
So it's really rich that we start with that truncated
or a plan that wasn't one of the w w
F getting its taste of signing up Sid to the
big bucks. And then he's on the shelf almost in course.
Speaker 3: It's not a damn it son of a bitch.
Speaker 6: Tore my boss set. But I'm a d H so
I can still play softball.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, what do you mean softball?
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm just a d H.
Speaker 1: D H.
Speaker 3: I don't understand what what a d d H? Drivers?
Speaker 6: Drivers go ahead? Uh uh what are you gonna say?
Speaker 3: Driver? Driver's hymen? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 6: Oh, that's one way to refer to driving school designated
to hit?
Speaker 3: What I mean to hit?
Speaker 9: What? Uh?
Speaker 3: Am a softball professional ship? We choose me? You're I
don't know about that, but you are immediately he immediately
takes that away from him, just like calling j r
or whatever somewhat of a journalist.
Speaker 6: Can't help get that word in there.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know you are a professional entertainer, you know,
working for the w w E. But I don't know
about this this softball thing. I mean, obviously you're you're injured,
but it doesn't and you can go play other childish games.
Speaker 6: That doesn't mean you can go play other childish games.
Speaker 3: WWE. It's a childish game, right, other right.
Speaker 6: In addition to this one said in the Snake are
eagerly anticipating this impending pay per view showdown? Do you
remember caring about that? Do you remember caring about Sid
getting his hands on Jake.
Speaker 3: I did no clue at that time. No clue. My
fan and forget my fandom started the week before amazing
Survivor series, so I had no clue about this whole thing.
And how phenomenal is it that we sit here ten
years on and in many ways we're re visiting our
very first episode in that time period. Yes, that's very true.
Speaker 6: Summer Slam ninety one where Sid comes on pay per
view for the first time a special referee, and then
it's the postmatch scenario where Liz and Randy Savage are
having their reception or whatever the hell it was. Yeah,
because get married on the show. And then this, you know,
Jake sees fit to deliver a snake to them as
a wedding president.
Speaker 3: And it's Sid right that comes to save the day,
uh and help out against the undertaker, and and and Jake.
Speaker 6: That's when they obviously still an invited.
Speaker 3: Guest of despite being a brand new, brand new to
the company, he's an invited guest to the wedding reception
of Brandy and Elizabeth.
Speaker 6: I wonder if they dared tell us even maybe just
once that you know their ties biden quite a bit.
Remember from part one it was Sid striking up a
conversation with Randy Savage so they could play off that
they have some history together. But yeah, I don't think
they did. I'm sure they didn't, but there you go.
Jake was kind of the setup man to get Sid
going as the at the top, as one of the
top baby faces in the company. So that's that's an
interesting what if that never never materialized. By the time
he was back, they were thinking he'll already apparently, uh,
Sid and the snake or igler anticipating guests the editors
here at WWF Magazine recently caught up with Justice. He
told us how he felt about the snake. He told
us how he felt about.
Speaker 3: This River series.
Speaker 6: In fact, he told us everything that we and our
readers wanted to know about himself. So, without any further ado,
WWF Magazine brings you this interview with Sid Justice. Sid,
let's talk about the macho man in Miss Elizabeth's ms
Dot Miss Elizabeth's wedding reception for a moment, as you recall,
Jake the snake crashed the wedding reception and menaced Elizabeth
with a venomous Asian cobra. Thank goodness for you. Had
it not been for your timely intervention, there is no
telling what might have happened. Can you tell us what
was going through your mind when you saw the snake
with the serpent in his hands, intimidating Miss Elizabeth? Matcho,
that's what it says, okay, Miss ms Dot Elizabeth, Macho.
Speaker 3: Right was gone through my mind. I guess who deserves
another man who destroys another man's wedding party must be
lower than dung in my mind, and I'm sure in
the minds of millions of people Jake Roberts, is that
type of man well at the Survivor series. Jake Roberts,
you are gonna see what type of man Sit Justice is.
You're gonna see what sit Justice stands for.
Speaker 7: You.
Speaker 3: Lucky, Jake Roberts, You were lucky you left that wedding
reception when you did, because Ah was inches away from
busting you upen like a million. He looks like I'll
get my chance at the Survivor series in a few weeks.
Speaker 6: I can't believe the syntax of the sentence. Not what
do you think your strategy will be? Instead? What do
you think will be your strategy? We listen, We're gonna
do it in proper English. What do you think will
be your strategy moving forward in the WB and regarding
this potential, we have to cut the second half of
that for space. I just hope it's okay.
Speaker 3: H m hm. Straight ahead, Jake Roberts. I can assure
you this off will be coming after you and you only.
I don't care about anybody else on your team. You
are my only concern. AH will give you the pain
that you gave the Macho men, Elizabeth, but I'll give
it to you tenfold.
Speaker 6: It sounds as if you're out to seek retribution on
behalf of the MACHOs?
Speaker 3: Are we right behalf of the MACHOs?
Speaker 6: It says it man.
Speaker 3: Randy Savage is a man of pride. He is a
man who values and protects his family. He's a man
whom I trust. He's a friend. Unfortunately, because of some
bureaucredit garbage coming out of WW President Jack Tunny's offices,
he hasn't been reinstated as a WW superstar. That doesn't
mean he can't take care of the snake at the
present time. Well, that means he can't take care of
the snake at the present day. We're live, said, what
can we do that again? Please a ship? Yeah, so,
as Randy Savage's friend ah Am seeking revenge for him
and his wife, he can't do it, but sid justice will.
Speaker 6: That's loyalty. These days, it's rare to see loyalty and
real friendship and professional athletics. It seems to us that
said justice just maybe cut from a different cloth.
Speaker 3: I guess it has to do with my upbringing. You know,
I was raised on a farm in West Memphis, Arkansas,
by my grandfather, who fortunately was stricken with polio. He
taught me many things my grandfather did. He taught me
many things my grandfather did. He taught me to respect
everyone around me, because that's the best way to get respect.
He also taught me to help people who need help.
Because of people you help today might be helping you tomorrow.
I's a father.
Speaker 10: My grandfather knows all about that, because all the livestock
he raises and all the vegetables he grows help hungry
people survive every day of the week.
Speaker 3: Randy Savage needs my help. His wife needs my help.
Jake Roberts, Jake Roberts needs a major beating, and you
are looking at the man who deliver it. At the
Striver Series.
Speaker 6: That may very well be the case.
Speaker 3: Sid.
Speaker 6: However, even you must realize that Roberts is a snake
at heart. He's unpredictable, he's untrustworthy. He's the type of
man who will feign an injury in the ring and
then strike, and then strike when you least expected. At
the Survivors Series, he'll be captaining three other athletes. It's
possible that he could send his teammates into battle and
wait for his chance to cut you down.
Speaker 3: Are you aware of this? I'm aware of it, and
I'm prepared for it. It's true. Roberts is his snake
at heart, and he's capable of anything. Most men would
be frightened knowing the fact. But sit justice is the
top of man who fears no man said, justice is
the top of man through fierce, no snake, Jake Roberts,
your sins can never be forgiven by anybody. So, Jake
Roberts at the Survivor series, there is only one solution,
and that is justice will be served.
Speaker 6: We thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 2: Sid He Wrestling podcast.
Speaker 1: He's an lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and can.
Speaker 6: You see It's Real Simple. That's one of his favorites.
Speaker 3: See It's real simple.
Speaker 6: I like the biographical sketch in there about his father
and polio and all that. See, they're trying to get
him across as somebody that you know is from humble beginning,
somebody who knows right from wrong.
Speaker 3: That the thing appreciates justice.
Speaker 6: He appreciates justice, the thing Vince, the many things Vince
wants to believe about an American hero. Even though the
tide was turning as the eighties became the nineties, I believe.
Speaker 3: That I am a a living, breathing example of justice
being served. Wow you think so?
Speaker 6: Doesn't that remain to be seen? What doesn't that remain
to be seen?
Speaker 3: I am Listen, I am I am just and I
am Ice.
Speaker 6: That's fucking sick Just plus Ice. Well, I'll tell you.
If there's justice in this world, the types of which SID,
the types of which SID Justice promised to bring to
the World Wrestling Federation in nineteen ninety one, then our
good pal Gabe is going to continue, Oh yes, to
receive the outpouring of support from the TLF Solar system
that thus far.
Speaker 3: Are sending you the cover of the magazine to look
at Oh God, that is.
Speaker 6: Oh look at him.
Speaker 3: Look at him.
Speaker 6: He looks ready to fucking go.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah.
Speaker 6: But he's got an intensity in his eyes that doesn't
say crazy. It says no, like you don't want to
face me down in a saloon somewhere right exactly. You
don't want this smoke And he knew how to roll
a fat blunt, as Tracy Smothers told us. Yeah, Gabe,
the support is real, and we want to send another
reminder this week that one of the truest, bluest, longest standing,
most tenured most real members of the Solar System needs
our help as he faces an intense heart surgery coming
up next month and it's going to do a number
on the household finances his wife and child, and so
we're seeking to help. We've done what we can. Many
in the Solar System have done what you can as well,
But just a reminder, if you're sort of on the fence,
if you didn't hear the call, please consider helping Gabe
out so that it's as the stress is as mitigated
as much as possible going into such an intense surgery
like this. The best way to do it, since the
go fund me you URLs tend to be kind of choppy,
is just google Gabe yoakum that's Gabe last name, yo
cum go fund me and you'll see it, and you'll
see donations from many members of the Solar System. I
suppose several of the anonymous donors that came to the
table after we did the shout out on our last
episode were inspired by tlfs so and gave knows you
know how many of you are and the appreciation runs deep.
But we feel obliged what we shared. The link to
the gofund me as well on our ex account, So
if you scroll down a bit, you should be able
to see some recent retweets from us as well. But
please do consider helping him out. This is what it's about.
I mean, this is TLFX. You know, it's it's been
a virtuous circle since the beginning. It's been a virtuous
circle ever since we realized when we set up the
Patreon that there are people out there that love this
shit so much, that are so willing to say keep going,
that they put money on the table, you know, that
huge right that it became from there. Okay, well, you
keep telling us how badly you need it, and we'll
keep working harder, you know, spending more on things like
research and you know, overturning every stone we possibly can,
and just growing and growing and growing and growing what
tlf can be. How about just creating a whole separate
movie podcast for patreons that, seriously, that is now an
indispensable part of every everyone who pledges in that denomination
in Hire's life, as far as I can tell from
my vantage point. So it's this is part of the ecosystem,
This is part of the bargain, and so we call
on you to help Gabe in a time of need,
and we'll be standing here resolute in our mission to
support you guys with casting. That's what we can do.
That's why you cared about us in the first place.
That's why you will continue to care about us. That's
the extent of what we can do is just cast
and cast and cast and cast past ten years and beyond.
So big shout out there. Also, big shout out speaking
of TLFX Games to our forens at Garage Beer, Yes,
who have been wonderful supporters of the TLFX Games tournament,
which just continues to take on a life of its
own since we last were with you. Voting has concluded
in the second round of our initially sixty four character
tournament to determine who is thirty two whatever it was,
to determine the greatest character in LAPS fan history. And
it's getting tight.
Speaker 3: It is, it really is. It's very uh, it's very exciting.
Speaker 6: So there is this, you know you've been hearing from
them the t l FX Games event center and Boss,
what did you think?
Speaker 12: What was that?
Speaker 6: What do you think about the latest round?
Speaker 12: Oh?
Speaker 3: I was I'll tell you, I was very intrigued by
that there were two, that there were two battles that
were neck and neck for the whole time. You know
that it was a Vern and Andre and what should
we call it? And uh and Jesse and the editor
unreal that was intense and Jesse winning by only like
one percent.
Speaker 6: Thought we let him in the debates. I mean, you
imagine if we didn't let him in the debates, it
would have happened. I know, exactly. So really really getting
interesting as folks are now really having to decide. You know,
we're talking like lapsed canon heart like like folks that
you just consider indispensable parts of the rogues gallery of
characters that we've created organically over the years on the show.
And I can't wait to see who ultimately crowned King
of the cast. But it has come down to lapsed
bulldog who eliminated our subject at du jour. Here on
the Streak Show, we talked about how loud I.
Speaker 3: Wonder I see That's what I was saying, you know,
we were talking about when we were recording the episode.
I do wonder if Vienna's would have would have helped Sid.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's term.
Speaker 3: Didn't drop before before it changed.
Speaker 6: It certainly appeared that Sid's passing did help him advance
in the first round, where he had I believe initially
was losing in the polling. As a reminder, by the way,
if you don't know we're talking about, if you follow
us on exit the lapsed fan, you two will get
your chance. We open up the polls for everybody to vote,
and we leave it open for a few days and
just let the chips fall where they may, match up
by matchup, and the surprises are starting to trickle in.
That first round was pretty predictable. There were maybe one
or two surprises, but in terms of not who won,
but how close certain matchups were. Now it's getting to
be like you said, watching sweating Andre versus Vern down
to the wire. Yeah, there are fans out there like
fuck that No Vern fans like no fuck that Andre,
and you can see them pushing each other back and
forth as the as the percentage totals change, and.
Speaker 3: I do I do find it very interesting too that
it was Jesse fighting the media. You know, that's what
that's what he was doing. He was fighting the media,
and I wanted it was probably holding me back the
whole damn time, right, you know, I'm shitting here saying, hey,
you know what, I'm not only king of the cash,
I'm king of the country. It's about time I triumph
over the media. It's about damn time I did triumph
over some form of media. No telling what the lapse
editor is going to go back to his office and
plot now that he's out of the X Games. Of
course that's for future development perhaps. So we've got Nash,
We've got Andre, We've got Jesse, We've got Helen Hart,
who was a late addition after folks pointed out her
omission from the initial slate, which is amazing. Laps Dusty,
laps Hogan and lapsed Vince, who will it come down to?
Your chance to decide is coming quite soon, I mean
Hogan and Vince Like this is you know you're looking
at you got to look at at Vince's trajectory here. Yeah, okay,
this is fascinating. He beats his best friend in round one,
he beats his biggest money maker in round two, and
now he's set the square off with his probably biggest
overall superstar.
Speaker 6: Yep, you know there's there's poetry happening here. There is
poetry happening. Yes, And we look forward to seeing how
it shakes out. Somehow I feel like it. No matter
how it shakes out, it's going to shake out just
as it should have. Yes, it's going to end up
making all the sense in the world when we make
the final assessment. But your chance to decide who will
be the king of the cast? Who is the greatest
character in tlf history After ten years of casting the
fuck out of this shit, you get the chance to decide.
So keep your ears locked to our feed for another
round of Sean Mooney and the TLFX Games Events Center
as he goes through the next round of matchups, and
here from the participants, and you make the decision. You
hear from both sides. It is election season, after all,
that is true, and the candidates are on the stump.
They're on the stump. And so again TLFX Games going strong,
thanks to everyone who made it happen, including our friends
over at a garage beer and you talk about Vince,
You talk about serendipity, you talk about his trajectory, You
talk about the people he's beating in the X Games
being so illustrative of the ways he came up in
the world and in business and in the wrestling industry.
And by the time many of you hear this, the
Netflix documentary series on Vince McMahon, the long awaited Bill
Simmons project on Vince McMahon, will have been out into
the atmosphere in the ether and we want to do something.
We're going to do something. At the very least we've
been informed Boston nasal Gas is on the case. I'm
not surprised.
Speaker 3: I mean, I imagine that anytime something like this is
going on, that he is, you know, he's trying to
He's trying to get that, you know, get get get
a call in at some point.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. I mean, he's the one that's been my finding
the facts most closely about not only Vince's outer monologue,
not only his public record, but his private inner monologue,
his private inner record. And we know this over the
years as part of KLFX in This American work and
the occasional series were nasaled despite his best efforts. Only
occasionally can surface Lapsed Vince for a series of testimonials
about his life and times. The episodes, such as they've
happened to date, are all available on the Lapsed Fans
YouTube page if you check them out. This American work
is Vince when we thought he was retired and not
under as much scrutiny perhaps as he is today pre
being sued.
Speaker 3: I'm scrutiny now I'm being scrutinized. I'm pleasant, I'm content.
I'm exactly where I knew I would be, and that
is right on top, always end forever. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, if we had the reigns of the Netflix series,
you better believe that's what we title. And I have
the feeling by all the time, all of a sudden done,
Vince will not be taking an l here. Okay, that's
not ever where the spark money is. But we're gonna
We're gonna find out, and Nasal Gas is on the case.
So do also no promises in terms of when and what,
but when Nasal is ready to report out, you will
be the first to hear it here in the TF
Solar System as part of our recurring series this American Work.
And as mentioned when before Vince was sued by Janelle Grant,
Nasal had much more success sitting him down or reflect
on his life and times and the extent to which
those were successful. Connections are evident as mentioned in our
YouTube page. But just no, just know that we're paying
close attention.
Speaker 3: We're listening to.
Speaker 6: Every word, We're observing every turn of phrase, every turn
of narrative, and we'll hone in. We'll hone in on
the in betweens, We'll hone in the unspoken moments. We'll
hone in on the the rushes to judgment, perhaps the
leaps of narrow that perhaps you can expect in a
series like this, as robust as it appears to be.
I think it's going to be like six hours long,
but you're going to hear this. It's going to be
out there. It's what's everyone's going to be talking about.
And this is our message to you. Nasal is on
the case also in the case of our friends at
Chopped Teas.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean this is fuck yeah.
Speaker 6: We said it last week. The ros war Jacket, in
the style of TLF has been created, has been drafted,
has been made a reality by our palaticky bird. You've
seen it, you've worn it, you've felt it, you've tasted it,
and we want the rest of the Solar System to
taste it as well, don't we.
Speaker 3: Boss. Ah Yeah, listen, it's it is, it's it's what
dreams are made of.
Speaker 6: It's whenever every lapsed fan needs for Christmas. Honestly, oh
fuck yeah, you know you're gonna start getting those texts
in about two months. What do you want?
Speaker 3: What do you want?
Speaker 6: Just send the link because we're here to announce that
our Palticky Bird is putting together materials to make that jacket,
that varsity jacket with TLF insignia available to you quite
soon at Chopped Teas, which is the place to go
for all of you or specialized TLF swag beyond t shirts,
things like hats and track jackets and zubaz pants and
fanny packs and you know, cups and shit, all that
kind of packs. Yeah, what's up with that?
Speaker 3: Need them?
Speaker 6: Come on now, back into play. So it's just an
amazing platform. Chop Teas is doing great work and keeping
keeping in the spirit of what TLF is about. You know,
our finest partners and this goes down the list have
always been and Gabe is among them. We mentioned Garage Beer.
It's always people who know the show, know the show
and end up being entrepreneurial on the other side and say,
you know what, I know why people listen to the show.
I know they're for real and they eat a bunch
of bitch ass motherfuckers. They're not a bunch of freeloading cunts,
and so it's worth creating things that delight them because
they're willing to reciprocate that attention to detail and that
entreaty with support. It's something that is probably the safest
bet you're going to find in the wrestling podcast space
in terms of receptive audience. It's can seriously consider what
you're bringing the market to. The co chairman deem it
worthy and that's what's happening here at chop Teas. That's
what's happening. And the jacket will be available for purchase
before you know it, because that's what's up. And I'll
tell you what, boss, If we keep talking about Viennas,
if we keep going down this road in our sid tribute, yes,
I think our pro Wrestling tea shop is going to
get to reflect it quite quickly.
Speaker 3: Yes, I will say that there are already by the
time this drops, there should be two Vienna shirts added
to the catalog.
Speaker 6: I mean, people are hitting us up with their own
brilliant designs. It's just like this is the thing, this
is going to be the thing. I mean, Yeah, you
can't talk about Vienna sausages as much as sid did
in his you know, I mean in its twilight it's
without us grabbing onto it.
Speaker 3: It's really what is so what is incredible about it
really is the fact that here here is that he
talked so passionately about it. Yes, you know, he could
have he could have talked about it and just kind
of thrown it away, but he he was all about
one hundred and fifty thousand pounds of Vienna's nipped cans whatever.
He never pounds.
Speaker 6: He never talked about helping out his church without specifying
the precise cuisine exactly. And that's the kind of thing
that's the that's the kind of detail that we don't
miss here at tlo oh. We never miss that kind
of stuff because it's all about food instead proving that again,
so our progresting tees dot Com slash the Lapsed Fan
Store definitely going to be reflective of the kind of
moments that are happening as we eight the Great sid
Udy here over the next several episodes on that fucking cast.
So you do want to keep it very keep it
very close eye to the store as well as you
know meant the aforementioned holiday gifts stuff. I mean, there
can't be a moment in the catalog over ten years
that you can't buy a shirt that reflects I know.
I mean there's so many as we just go, we
just boss waste no time. I mean, we say something
on the show and the next day he's texting me like, I.
Speaker 3: Mean sometimes it happens during the show and I'm like,
all right, you know what, I got to do this
right now, that's as we're recording it. I'll send you
a fucking It's not like once or twice and I've
sent you like an image fucking it here. Look at this.
Speaker 6: Part of that ecosystem I mentioned, part of that virtuous circle,
virtuous cycle. Also, you know, if you want to throw
a coin in the jukebox and get us to dance
for you, Cameo is there for you? Okay, no, yes,
hemeo dot com slash lapsed fan, send us your requests,
jump in a cannon, have lapsed characters and do things
that you think are appropriate or funny, or you know,
just have us pass on some well wishes to someone
in your life, or have lapsed Vince talk down to
someone on their birthday. You've done several of those.
Speaker 3: God, that's always the best is when they you know,
when they say, hey, you know so and so is
celebrating this. Can you tell them what a fucking piece
of shit they are? Yes, that's easy, plenty of practice
in there, you say, so that's what you want?
Speaker 6: Sure, so do do patronize us in more ways than
one over on cameo. That's that's very much available to
you and and vibrant and again we'll want the call out.
We did it last week and I'm just not gonna
let it happen again this year. Where we think of
the Christmas show too late for folks that want to
get us stuff to feature on that wonderful annual tradition
that that's taking shape the unwrapping as we've taken gifts
from the Solar system and unwrap them and react to
them in real time on the pod as part of
spreading some holidays cheer and so if you want to
make sure that whatever you have in mind for your
co chairman arrives in time for said taping and isn't
sort of like straggler gifts that we were glad to
open and thrilled and delighted to open, but we'd like
to We just love to fit everything in that one
session because that's when we get together and really feel
the spirit and it's and everything is as it should
be if you want to be part of that session,
which to me, you really should want to be. Uh,
you're going to want to get that gift off sooner
rather than later, especially if you're overseas and international. That's
something that I think we've underestimated in the past.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that can be. That can be uh get
a little troubling. So a little troubling, a little trouble.
Speaker 6: It just might just takes longer than we appreciate that
sometimes to get to get to us. And so you
need to know that the time is now. Honestly, the
time is now. We've already got We've already got how
many like.
Speaker 3: Seven or eight.
Speaker 6: I think that's a hell of a start. So this
is happening, folks. This is not a fucking This isn't
some kind of theoretical thing. So the PO box is
the lapsed fan seven ten Main Street, South seven one
zero me Street, South PO Box one one nine one
one nine south Bury s O U T H b
U R Y Connecticut zero six four eight eight again
zero six four eight eight. Do get in the queue.
Do get what we need on the on the ship,
on the boat, on the freight ye or in the
UPS truck or in the us SPS truck, whatever the
case may be. Get it to your co chairman, and
make sure that it is indeed a merry Christmas for
everybody in the Solar System. You know what to do,
and we continue to offer, uh, let's say, seasonal reinforcement.
You know, when it leaves turn or the weather turns,
you can count on your co chairman to sniff that
out and present content that's that's appropriate in that way.
Last year, it was tricky under the cinemat to keep
with the the scary movie bargain that we made upon
the launch of this incredibly popular series where we dive
in to Hollywood movies that feature pro wrestlers and just
go all in on whatever the wrestler is and.
Speaker 3: Whatever the movie is.
Speaker 6: We're in the middle of the Bond journey, but Boss
tell them about the sort of detour will be taking
and how the rest of the year is going to
shape out.
Speaker 3: Under the cinema. Yes, as as I mentioned before, you
know we were in the middle. We're actually at a
great stopping point for now on the Bond journey because
of the way that the final leg of the journey
is its own. It's its own journey in a way,
you know, it's its own journey, and so it's a
it's a it's a good place to kind of reuh,
you know, kind of regroup a little bit, take a
moment and focus on some other things, and then come
back to it and start afresh. So it is Scary
Movie season, and we will have movies all throughout October
for Scary Movie Season, and then we'll return with James Bond.
Speaker 6: In November and finish that up just in time for
Christmas movie season exactly, exact right to our point about
holiday themes exactly, I have to say, you know, as
much Christmas and Halloween or whatever, you know, Fourth of July,
whatever the holiday is themed content we've done on the
main show over the past ten years, I feel the
most inner warmth when I sit down for an Under
the Cinemat episode that's in keeping with the season. Oh,
that's under the Cinemat is the place to really soak
that in.
Speaker 3: It really, you know, it's it does the same thing
for me, Like, you know, when I start looking at
the movies that that that that I've chosen for the seasons,
it just it really does that there's something about it.
I'm like, oh, this is so great, Like I get
all tingly and no different with this. I'm then we
get it. We get some some real heavy hitters. So
I'm excited to I'm excited to thrust that upon you.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 6: I mean scary movies that is truly the dominion of
the pro wrestler when one totally is he tries to
make the transition to Hollywood. I mean, we talked about
when we did Halloween, the Michael Myers character influencing so
many rest of characters from King all the way down,
and just so much to chew on.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 6: We're sitting here talking about a sid who I don't
know exactly if you'd call the Mad Mac series, the
Thunderdome stuff scary movies, but they're certainly, you know, there
are certainly characters created in the vein of fucking you know,
superkillers basically. Sure, So it's all there. I mean, these
bookers from our these bookers that put the wrestling out
there that we absorbed and remember so fondly we're watching
movies to get inspiration.
Speaker 3: They're very absorbed into pop culture and what was going
on in Hollywood.
Speaker 6: We're gonna get through this utter of the cinemat format
a chance to talk about all of them over the years,
and definitely definitely a time to lean in, you know,
because you're gonna get the end of the Bond journey,
you're gonna get scary movie season, you're gonna get Christmas
movie season. It's where UTC really thrives and goes absolutely nuts.
So you want to absolutely consider joining if you're on
the fence about it again. Under the Cinemata is available
to our executive producer tier on Patreon and above those
Mote tier members of course get everything and more. And
we've got quite quite a few ideas in mind for
some lapsed outings that have been the exclusive dominion the
invite only list on the Moat tier yep, because if
you're willing to show that much support, we're willing to
let you into the circle closer to the conscience, closer
to the beating heart of the cast. So I keep
your eyes and ears peel if you're in the moat
tier for that, but of course under the Cinemat available
to the tier render as well our EP and above tier,
and we definitely urge you to consider joining. One of
the things we're going to be unloading on you as
part of the Sid Journey is an archived under the
Cinemat episode that all of a sudden as relevance. We
did it on a lark, I think, boss, I.
Speaker 3: Mean it was well, no, it was, I mean it
was done. I mean, I guess partially on a lark.
Speaker 13: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a scary movie, you know, so it's kind
of fitting in a way. It was an awful horror
film and Sid is in it. And there actually was
a feature on Sid getting his makeup done because he
plays a monster. Yes, so it's called River of Darkness
and he plays Jonah Jacobs. And this is when he
did way after his wrestling career was over. Yeah yeah, yeah,
I mean this was came out in twenty eleven.
Speaker 6: So we've done it. We did it years ago under
the Cinemat.
Speaker 3: R two years ago. Actually two years ago.
Speaker 6: We did it, but to give you a sampling as
we're you know, as every now and then we're inspired
to do. Remember, we did uh, we brought forward Rocky
three when we did the Terry Funk tribute because of
the role that he at Paradise Alley. You know where
Terry Funk is actually in it Rocky three. He plays
a role in the lore around how Holt Colgan ultimately
got the thunder Lips role. Oh God, whors Paradise Alley
prominently featuring Terry Funk is Frankie the Thumper and in
many ways setting a blueprint for what Rocky is, or
at least speaking to it. So it's great, it's it's
it's always awesome, and we can be like, all right,
there's a cinemat episode that that makes some sense here
to surface. We surfaced ready to rumble when we were
in the midst of our you know, history of w
CW stuff, when Weis was doing their series and we
started doing a show about w W greed the final
pay per view. So it makes sense to make River
of Darkness available to all and the glimpse it gives us.
Did you know that Sid was in consideration for a
super Shredder.
Speaker 3: I did not know that.
Speaker 6: I don't remember if we talked about that. I don't
think so, I don't think I knew that, but yeah,
he's talked about it. He pretty much was like Chilly
on the idea. He was never really enthusiastic about getting
into two movies and he was under the I think
there was kind of a thing where he's got a
story where because his wrestling obligations were going to be
such that the office would kind of sour on losing
him for that long at WCW. That that's why the
role went to Kevin Nash was basically because you know,
Nash was much more expendable in terms if you take
him off the road, it's not going to make a
very big difference to the cards because he was oz
Still or Vine Vegas probably at that point in time,
and no one gave a fuck really, you know, if
he was around or not. So so yeah, I guess
we can. We can chalk up Sid passing on Super
Shredder to Kevin Nash getting his first taste of Hollywood,
which to this day he definitely still has an appetite for.
Oh fuck yeah and say that for sure. Yes, So
keep your eyes peeled and do join in just in
time for Under the Cinemat to reach a whole new level.
I can't wait to see what the boss has in mind.
As the leaves turn and as those jack O lanterns
get lit, people are starting earlier this year than ever.
Speaker 3: I can't believe it. I really cannot believe it. I
get so excited when I see It's like I drive
by someone's lawn, you know, on one day, and then
you know the next day it's completely littered with Halloween decorations.
I'm so fucking excited.
Speaker 6: That's a long time coming. And we're gonna we're gonna
ring it inappropriately here as we always do with TLF.
And finally on the support front, I mean, it makes
a ton of sense if we're talking about a SID
who came in and epitomized what it meant to be
Titan sports in nineteen ninety one. If we're talking about
SID who's wwa first run kind of ended under the
haze and cloud of you know, it increased Titan wellness policy.
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Speaker 1: Fan Wrestling podcast, he's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast with
Jack and Carno and Jpro.
Speaker 6: Would that dispensed with? Where did we leave sid Well?
We left him making a decision, Uh, do I sign
this guaranteed contract with WCW with promises of a world
title run or do I take this nagging thing from
Vince of like this is going to be my only
opportunity to have this spot the number one spot in
professional wrestling.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: Of course, what Vince McMahon does and doesn't mean when
he makes these representations vis a vis Hulk Cogan spot
is up for debate and an interpretation.
Speaker 3: I mean right, I mean their money. Oh, I can
offer this opportunity pill and we're just talking about an
opportunity to eventually obtain a spot similar to Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 3: You know there have been many there, We've you've taken
chances on a multitude of individuals who have either succeeded
in their own way or perhaps uh not succeeded in
their own way. And you know, we're always we're always
looking to maintain a you know, a caliber a caliber
of caliber of competitor right to to you know, potentially
lead the way into the future of the WWE and
at the same time, you know, lead but not you know,
lead but fall pretty far behind Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 6: Okay, sounds appetizing. I'm I'm doubly sold now, Vinz, thanks
for the extrapolation. But yeah, I mean because Sid just
came up with this thing of like, oh my god,
if w CW is offering this much money right now,
this is an opportunity for me to see what Vince
would say if I put myself out there and and
he just says, I want Hogan spot. It's similar to
when Brett wanted to come at WCW and he said,
he wants a dollar more than Hogan makes. Yeah, right,
that's just like shorthand for the most money I could
possibly make your company.
Speaker 3: I want I want Hulk Coogan spot. I see that's
a very interesting proposition for yourself.
Speaker 6: I do you sound like a yes?
Speaker 3: Are you referring to? Just what spot? Are you referring to?
I want this spot?
Speaker 6: Well, I am you mean you mean the leg drop?
Speaker 3: Do you mean? Do you mean? Do you mean his
his parking spot tightened hours? Is that I can do that?
Speaker 7: That that?
Speaker 3: I don't think there'll be much of a problem. I
want a spot on the card, my birthday card. Yes,
that's fine too, I will I will make that happen.
You can have where he would sign it. You can
have his spot.
Speaker 6: Can you imagine he pulls up to the tower for
the meeting to sign the contract, and there's a sign
in the parking lot with Hulk Hogan's name on it,
crossed out with Sid over Teltreppel. I'm a man of
my wordy, you have whole Hogan spot.
Speaker 3: I'm pleased.
Speaker 6: I hope you are too, Because he said Sid. You
know Sid says Vince flew him out immediately upon expressing
interest immediately. And god, can you imagine being a Titan
Towers the day Sid walks through the front door for
the first time. Oh my god, the buzz that creates
it be insane just to be in the in the
confines because you know they've moved offices, but that old
Titan Tower, man, it was in a kind of like
a residential neighborhood, like you could just like, yeah, you
could spy on that place. I think yes, and I'm
sure wrestling fans have over the years. But my god,
just to think about the intrigue going on at this
point with him playing both sides. You know, Sid recalls
Dusty coming up to him at a show in Alabama
WCW because Dusty had taken the book back over after
his WWF run and came in the February of ninety one.
So this is right around the time Sid is weighing
what to do. And you know, as you heard last week,
Dusty tail Sid, this is the plans I have. We
can make your world champ. You're gonna have a match
with Vader, then you're gonna do a feud with Rick
rud And the way Sid has talked about it in
Chewed interviews. They were going to build up Rick Rude
really strong with a bunch of big wins. There apparently
was like a boxing commercial featuring Julier Ciso Chavez at
the time where they ran down like in a black
and white ad, like a laundry list of the names
he had defeated to get to the next match, And
they were going to do something similar, according to Sid,
with Rick Rud, where they would list all the opponents
he's he's gone through to get to Sid. I hadn't
really thought about Sid versus Rick Rud for the WCW
title as a program. I don't know if that excites
me or not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. Ian that does sound interesting.
Speaker 6: It's interesting cause I don't know how you cast both
guys necessarily.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's that's kind of that
is hard. But I'm intrigued by that. I'm intrigued by
a Rude and Sid program.
Speaker 6: Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 7: So.
Speaker 6: Yeah as the baby face So Rick Rud babyface runs
I think was the idea. And you know, so Dusty's
putting the pressure. He's like, I want you to have
a brand new contract. I want you to be here
for four years, five years something like that. At the time,
he was on like a one or two year year deal,
and so they came up with the figure. And you know,
he he had heard Sid has said and shooting interviews.
He had heard at the time of these discussions were
going on that Hulk Hogan was considering taking time off.
Of course, this is amid the Arsenio Hall mess and
hul Cogan's fucking disastrous nineteen ninety one, and that that
would be a spot that could be open on the
WWF cards because certainly Warrior had failed. And it's true
if you look at the if you look at who
they had, like, yeah, it's not really clear who was
going to be the top baby face in WWF. But
Hogan took the hiatus. It really wasn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't agree with I agree with that.
Speaker 6: So you can as ludicrous as it might sound at first,
that Sid was offered the Hogan spot, so to speak,
or was led to believe that the Hogan spot was
open to him by Vince, I can see if if
it was concrete that Hogan was going to disappear for
six months for the first time since you know, ho
Comania started, really that kind of a prolonged disappearance, and
you can kind of see how someone could be convinced
that this is a new opportunity. You know, we know
Hogan comes back and just takes right over again.
Speaker 7: We know this.
Speaker 3: So it's like.
Speaker 6: It's hard to remember what a weird headspace they were in.
Is it regards that spot in ninety two and as
it regards Hogan in ninety two. Yeah, with that open
ended question about when he'd come back, So he's he's
thinking about this, and he you know, knows that that's
a big money opportunity. He'd never talked to Vince up
to that point. Says maybe I should give him a call.
So I called him. He put him right through, told
him what was going on. Would you fly in tomorrow?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 6: So he went over there. I told him what I wanted.
I can't promise that, Yeah, just like just like Vince
can't promise an annual salary pal. What's funny that it's
funny Bell, you can't promise. You can't promise you'll be here.
I can't promise anything but opportunity.
Speaker 3: I can't. I can't promise that you'll have a job ever. Again,
I can't wait to come to work for him. How
does that feel? Exactly? Where? Fuck with me? Exactly?
Speaker 6: How does that feel? That's the opening conversation between Vince
and Sid. Sid probably should have taken a hint at
that point. No, how does that feel? But you know,
he's like he's looking at with the exception of when
he first broke in and was scraping by, he's looking
at a business that he's only non guaranteed money in
the WP contract was guaranteed, whether he was hurt or not.
And he's feeling Vince out on whether you know, as
much as it's clear in the industry that Vince doesn't
offer guaranteed money, will he bend here as he eventually did,
not to Sid so much, but to others. And No,
Vince was still steadfast in nineteen ninety one about not
off ring a guaranteed salary.
Speaker 3: But you know he was able to say that, Look,
I don't believe in guarantees. Why is that promises? I
don't believe in guarantees.
Speaker 6: I believe in promises. You, however, should not believe in
my promises.
Speaker 3: You should believe in my guarantees which are nil, which
are not you know, they're not necessarily reliable, but you
should believe in them.
Speaker 6: By the way, there goes that word again.
Speaker 3: Yes, mother.
Speaker 6: So so Vince isn't, you know, budging on that front.
So for Sid, it's it's a gamble. But when you
talk about the Hogan spot, it pencils out. It's like, okay, well,
what I mean is that Hogan made this much for WrestleMania,
he made this much for merch. And it's like, if
Sid is convincing himself that he can do as great
a job as Hulk did, he's convincing himself he can
make as much money as Hulk did. Of Course, Vince,
if I can editorialize here, Vince knows that's not true.
Vince knows there's no fucking chance that, no matter what
he does with Sid, he's going to be anywhere near
as over as Hulk was for those peak earning years.
But it wouldn't surprise me that that wouldn't stop Vince
from sliding those numbers across the table as what might
be possible. Of course, absolutely, And yeah, listen, you know
what I want to tell you. Something said anything is
possible in the wah. You know there's a lot further I.
Speaker 3: Could you know, and uh, maybe someday get arrested.
Speaker 6: It's not gonna happen, but as possible, I get indicted
one day, I.
Speaker 3: Could get indicted. I can get indicted, maybe multiple times.
Speaker 9: Us.
Speaker 3: I'll get off at home and in the legal.
Speaker 6: Platform, at home and in the legal platform, at the
legal arena, at the legal category. It's just another platform
to fence and Nadie McMahon. So yeah, that's what I
can offer. And so Sid's like fuck that, I'll take
guaranteed money, thanks, but no thanks. And he's getting all
dressed up to go to the WW offices living near
Atlanta to sign the contract, and according to him, Vince
calls again. His wife picks up as he's in the driveway.
This always happens to said, like I said in part one,
there's always a story around how that phone call came
through when he wasn't expecting it, because he just, you know,
he's very sensitive about being accused of playing two sides
off of each other, which is of course precisely what
he did. Of course, so he has to like come
up with these stories about how he didn't want to
talk to someone on the phone. They just happened to
call him, and he has the same story, but when
he came back in ninety five about how it was
a call waiting thing. He was avoiding calls and he
got stuck just clicking over when he was on a
call and it was Vince and now he's stuck. Oh shit,
I answered the phone. I'm stuck. I can't say no
at that point if you answer the phone, right. So
his wife waves him down in the driveway and tells
him Vince's on the phone again, And that's the that's
the story that we ended last episode with was where
Vince says something to the effect of you know, because
Sid has told the story several times and the wording
he puts in Vince's mouth is always a little different,
but it's essentially, you know, you'll never get an opportunity
like this again, this is your in that that really
apparently resonated with Sid, and despite there not being a
guaranteed offer, he takes Vince's offer, and he even said
in one interview that he actually went to the w
W offices after that conversation, had them hand the contract
to him across the table, and he returned it to
them and said, no, I'm leaving. He's still fucking idiot
went to the Yeah, uh went to the offices to
to to engage in that showmanship because certainly, certainly he
wasn't looking for a counter offer. That was not at
all his intention to play anyone off of anybody else.
He he doesn't play bullshit games like that. According to Fair,
I'm Vince, Vince. I didn't. I didn't call you back
because I didn't want to put you in the middle.
And in other words, I didn't call you back so
I wanted you to call back with a sweeter offer.
Speaker 3: And it happened, didn't it. I can't do not or
or admit to anything.
Speaker 6: Here's the magic wand he said, Vince told him, what
do you want? So he says, Hogan, spot and we
go from there. I see, And as he said, you know,
he walked away from seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars
guaranteed in WCW when you put all the value of
all the contracts together. So he's coming into WWF with
that level of expectation that if he doesn't exceed that
level of earnings, to his mind and the way he
thinks about the business, he's made a huge mistake. So
as much as we can celebrate this run. And as
much as said looked like a real big time player
in wwfter in this run, in his mind, all he's
thinking about is how much he would have been guaranteed
if he was in WCW and the opportunities that creates
perhaps for him to dick off a little bit and
still get paid. Right, He's tremendous, is what he is,
which under Vince's stuff, which under Vince's system you can't
really do. I mean, you get paid because you work
on shows that Vince perceives you helped, you know, draw
a big house for or big pay per view by
rate for and then you get, you know, through some
completely opaque formula, a slice of that. And if he
perceived my sense is if he perceives you're unhappy, or
if he perceives that he needs to keep you closer
to the vest, he bumps you up and you get
a bigger check than you would have expected. And he
does that strategically along the way to make to keep
your sort of eyes wide about what the possibilities might
be for bigger checks down the road. If you continue
pleasing him. You know that that's how he used to
operate and so.
Speaker 3: How can you pleasure me?
Speaker 6: That's how the contract were.
Speaker 3: Listen said, I'm in the business of.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, say it.
Speaker 3: I'm in the business of pleasure, and I need to
know before I offer you anything. How are you going
to pleasure.
Speaker 7: What?
Speaker 6: He needs to know this. He needs to know this
before he offers him anything, as if what he's willing
to do to please Vince isn't in direct correlation to
how much he's willing he's going to make. You know,
So you mean for zero dollars, what am I willing
to do for you? Is that the question?
Speaker 3: Nothing?
Speaker 6: Well, you tell me right, not what most say, Pal.
I follow your logic, Pal, but that's not what most
say when I put that proposition to them. I tell
you those that have strong answers to that questions are
working here making very good money.
Speaker 3: Right now, I've had a numerous pleasure you know, pleasure
positive experiences.
Speaker 6: And here I am thinking PPE stood for personally protective equipment.
Speaker 3: Where do you come up with this ship?
Speaker 6: I swear to God's pleasure positive experiences, He's in the
pleasure of business.
Speaker 3: Are you fucking kidding to say?
Speaker 6: And you can picture said like basically short circuit and
you're trying to process what all these code words mean.
Speaker 3: No, no clue. Look, I just want to wrestle.
Speaker 6: That's what you want to do. That's your side on
what I want to receive. I just want to wrestle.
That's what you want to do. That's not what I
want to receive. What what do you want to receive.
Speaker 7: Of?
Speaker 6: It's good you're you're so certain, right. If you know
what you don't want to receive, that must mean you
know what you do want to receive.
Speaker 3: Listen again, you know the the the the ability to
compete in the ring is something that you offer. But
in reception, I need something that is a little more
ethereal than ahead ethereal. And what else is I just?
I need, you know, I need. I need something that
kind of expands my mind, expands my my sensory.
Speaker 6: The fuck, oh my god. I never know what this
guy's gonna say.
Speaker 3: Because I can hire any I can't. I can bring
any any schmuck in here and say go ahead and wrestle.
But I need, you know, what do I get in
this in this venture?
Speaker 6: He's thinking to himself, what does this guy want me
to say? For Christ's sake, It's like because now now
it's too late. Now you can't go back to Dusty.
So it's like, now, Vince, like wait a minute, let's
really talk here.
Speaker 3: And and you know, I need to know exactly how
you are going to give me pleasure. I am a
pleasure receptor and I require your services.
Speaker 6: It's like an androgen receptor, like the It's what the
steroids attached to. Oh my god, I mean, what what
do you want? Like you want to you wanna have
like it's not kind of what happens if you want
to go, we can go. We haven't seen the doc yet.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, listen, it's just no behavior.
Speaker 6: We haven't seen the doc yet. And I'm not talking
about Carlin Kolker.
Speaker 3: Okay, So.
Speaker 6: All right, Well they go back and forth and Sid
says the deal is this that he's going to come
in and they're gonna do something they've never done before.
All Sid is going to do for the first year
is TV's and pay per views. And remember this is
before Raw. This is you know, that's not much at all.
You got a couple of TV tapings basically, and worked
a big pay per view and you know, he does
have to go on the road.
Speaker 3: That that was what he says.
Speaker 6: Sid says was his understanding about the terms of his arrival,
and it was kind of Vince's idea of how to
really accentuate and get Sid ready for a position of
that magnitude, and so he was all about that. And
he says after WrestleMania like basically WrestleMania. According to Sid,
and this lines up with what Dave Meltzer has said
and what others have said over the years, WrestleMania is
going to be WrestleMania eight is going to be where
you're crowned. Now, when I say crowned, do I necessarily
mean become WWF champion? I think that's what if I'm
like putting the pieces together. That's what Vince said, for
what it's worth. Bruce Pritchard, who was in between ww
F ten years at this time, so he was not
in the office, says that's just not something Vince does.
Vince does not promise someone WrestleMania like that.
Speaker 3: They might hear that.
Speaker 6: And we know, you know from Brett Hart's story about
getting the Winter holl Cog and how when you actually
get everyone in a room, Vince will go back on
what you thought you heard about his promises.
Speaker 3: I didn't say you will. I said, you know, it's
a possibility, right, I can see you a very good
possibility that you will someday main event a WrestleMania type event.
Speaker 6: All I said said is I can see you having
WrestleMania as your crowning moment.
Speaker 3: I can. I can see you at a WrestleMania esque event.
Not in necesscessarily, he's not even promising wrestle Mania, you know,
a main event of sorts. But you know these are
these are neither here nor there right at this point.
Speaker 6: Well, this is a Sid who was so incapable of
remembering the name of the pay per view when he's
cutting promos for it that, according to him, they had
to put a sign up and say, just tell Sid
to say Mania. Oh my god, is he saying wrestling Mania?
Wherever else he's saying no.
Speaker 3: Yeah, god damn it. Said, what are you saying out there?
I'm seeing wrestling Mania. That's what I thought. You said,
It's just wrestle Mania. It's not wrestling Mania. Why the
fuck would I name my show? I want to name
anything wrestling Mania? What do you think this is? I
think it's gonna be the colossal tussle. You bitch.
Speaker 6: Oh shit, I can feel that hand warming up. It's
not gonna fly yet, but it's warming up. That's the
first time Vince felt a tingle in his palm.
Speaker 3: A bitch, I will not answer that question. Oh yes,
you will. No, I will not. You don't know what.
Speaker 6: Instead of saying no, he says, I'm not going to
answer that question. This is going to be a battle
and a showdown of two Titanic wits, these two over
the years. I have the feeling and something tells me
Sid is not going to accept defeat, no matter how
clearly Evince comes out the victor and all of their dealings.
So that's what Sid has in his mind. And Sid's
big thing about this run is that his expectations coming
in were just like subverted from the beginning, Like nothing
went the way he envisioned when he came to terms
to come to WWF. And this is part of it,
is that he apparently had a belief that he'd only
be working TVs and pay per views until WrestleMania, and
then after WrestleMania he'd be a made man and then
he'd on how shows and you know, will have been
set up such to draw on how shows in a
way that is tantamount to like a whole Coganesque position.
I guess it's kind of if you put on a
piece together. What what his expectation was, and again that
he'd come in as a babyface, because the Hogan spot
is a baby face spot. Sid has said in interviews
that Vince told him, We've never done this with anyone,
and Sid's response says, well, how the fuck am I
going to get paid for a year if you don't
give me money, Like if your whole model here is
earn that money.
Speaker 3: But but you're.
Speaker 6: Purposely not putting me on the road enough to earn anything, well,
I mean anything substantial.
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not doing anything. You're doing that to yourself.
I'm offering you an opportunity, but.
Speaker 6: You're kind of not because you're not putting on the
road to earn money night after.
Speaker 3: You Because I can't guarantee you anything, I can't guarantee
you're going to get this, but I can guarantee you
one thing. You will have an opportunity.
Speaker 6: See here, Sid at WWF, the real money is made
by going out there night after night and performing up
to the fans expectations and building your market value with
the fans. You have a chance to do that night
after night here towf and get paid in accordance with
that effort. However, I am not going to put you
on ninety percent of those shows. And Sid's like, where
do I sign? But he comes back and says, where
am I going to get paid? Like, you know, like literally,
how is the money going to? Because a lot of
this money is, you know, the draws on the road.
You know, you know you've got a certain amount of
money you can expect to make, and so you go
to the actual show and draw cash out in your
bank account and that's how you survive week to week.
But you have to be in the building to get
it from the agents and stuff you do right. And
so what Sid says is Vince came back and said,
We're going to take care of you. Don't worry about
the fact that you're not going to be in all
these house shows in and impacting the kind of money
you expect to make. So that already is something that
has Sid kind of sideways about the deal. But he
really likes or really believes in this, buys into this
way of presenting him and pushing him, and and I
kind of, you know, I kind of believe it because
the way they first start working him in it is
only TV tapings. It's not like all of a sudden
Sid starts showing up on a bunch of house shows
that that no one's heard of to get his his
his reps in.
Speaker 3: He really doesn't.
Speaker 6: They really just start using him on Superstars tapings, as
we'll get to, so perhaps early glimpses of that really
being Vince's plan, but ultimately at the end of it,
you know, he's looking at a seven hundred and fifty
thousand dollars potential haul from WCW and he said, I
never made that kind of money in WWF. I made
good money, but he didn't make that much. And he
said he made one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for
WrestleMania eight. So you know, Vince can say, look, you're
gonna there's a chance you could make seventy five percent
of your salary that ww's offering you in one night.
That's how much of a big cash night WrestleMania is.
And that's how much of it I share with the talent,
especially the top of the card. So that's a huge
payday you one hundred fifty grand. I'm I don't know
if it's a three four year contract, four or five
year contract at seven hundred and fifty grand total. However
that shakes out every year. You could say, you know, wow,
like but every year wrestler, he's not gonna be that
kind of money for him. He doesn't. He doesn't get that,
or I think by the time he does get that,
it becomes how can I get the fuck out of
this situation? Of course kind of kind of deal. And
as as we heard Sid say at the conclusion of
last week's episode in the final analysis, he thinks this
WWF run that we cherish so much, that burned him
into our memories forever, such that we remember magazine articles,
we remember all the toys, you remember all the promos.
A mistake, that's how Sid chalks it up. A mistake,
that's right, because of what the WCW contract was that
he left on the table to do this run that
we all remember him so much for.
Speaker 3: Never forget that.
Speaker 6: A twenty eighth nineteen ninety one Superstars taping, sid Udy
walks into a WWF arena for the first time, Boss May.
Speaker 3: I'm ninety one. Can we deal with this? I can't.
I can't.
Speaker 6: He attacks me.
Speaker 3: He's supposed to just debut at SummerSlam.
Speaker 6: Phenomenal. The thing about this, So it's in Tucson, Arizona.
They're taping television, and they don't tape this for television,
but it is a TV taping. The Mounie is out there,
and what he do is come out and like do
an open challenge. They do this with all kinds of heels,
not just the Mounie, and Sid came out for the
first time. Imagine being at this show and fucking Sid
from WW watch the curtain to answer the call.
Speaker 11: I'd be wild.
Speaker 6: So he gets in there, apparently and just clears the
Mouni from the ring. According to well you know what's
known of what happened on this show? As I said, well,
it took place into television taping, it wasn't taped for television,
it never aired. And then on the June eighth episode
in nineteen ninety one of Primetime Wrestling, we start getting
vignettes promoting Sid's debut.
Speaker 2: It's the last fan wrestling podcast.
Speaker 1: Give Me a Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack and
and JP Soro.
Speaker 6: So he's in he's in the inner sanctum now and
he's you know, learning the ways of WWF. And one
of the first things he becomes acquainted with is the
you know, Vince McMahon's inner circle, his cronies Patterson, all
the way on down. And in an interview with the
In Your Head podcast, Sid talks about one particular interaction
with Vince's Lieutenant Pat Patterson that kind of gave him
a feeling that he's going to be along for quite
a ride here under the auspices of Titan Sports.
Speaker 8: Now, Jim Barnett, you never would have known Pat was
a little more so you know where again, you know,
I remember how was It was my first show with
the w w F, and I was brought in just
to see how the show runs, and somehow ended up
in the call with Pat and Vince and uh JJ
Dillon and Howard Finkel and Pat asked if how one
that come out watch lightning with him and Vance I said, no,
I don't want to come out and watch fucking lightning
with you guys. He grabbed me in a waist lock
at the counter. I actually shot and went around. He
goes I guy said, bastard vance. I said, no, you don't.
I shot and went around and grabbed him. And you know,
hearing all the stories, I'd be liar if I didn't say.
I was a little bit nervous.
Speaker 6: So Pat welcoming in to the table. Uh, yeah, there
was a little over there.
Speaker 3: You keep your baseball bat in your pants.
Speaker 6: Now, what he doesn't understand is that when Pat said,
do you want to come out and watch the lightning,
there's a comma between out and end. Uh and no,
Sid is not going to come out, Pat. But I
guess they were going to like stand on the balcony
of the hotel and watch a lightning storm, and Sid
was not about that. Welcome to the WWF right, So
these vignettes start showing his face. Have you do you
remember these ever seen?
Speaker 3: Come in here? What's a boss? I just want to just,
you know, we get to sit now. I want to
kind of feel him out. He's a big motherfucker. He's
a big motherfucker. You damn right. I'm just curious about
him on a personal level. Want to try to fucking
I thought that was your job, boss, I mean, didn't
you know. I mean, I'll fucking financially. Don't worry about that.
I want you to try to fornicate with him, have
sexual relations with him, and see what happens.
Speaker 6: Oh, Boss, you know about about it, But I I
don't think it's gonna end up too well for you. I'dea,
it's a big he's a big bastard. I don't know
if he if he's not up for it, A fearful well,
it's just you don't have to do it.
Speaker 3: Just kind of, you know, feel him out of for it,
you know, just I just want to know if, if
you know where in what capacity justice will be served.
Describe a waistlock in the hotel lobby. Will you pell
see how he reacts to that? What I'm doing?
Speaker 6: It's not funny.
Speaker 3: Oh we're just playing around, big Sid. Is that being
a good joke? You want to come watch the lightnings?
Don't watch lightning? It scares me.
Speaker 6: She Sid declines the offer, goes into his hotel room,
pulls the covers up to his chin, and just shudders
with fear like a dog every time the lightning goes off,
and then goes hats on the balcony with a high ball.
Oh wow, that that's an impressive one right there. I mean, I, oh,
well for you pretty amazing. But Vince has his glasses
like he's he's working at the desk near the near
the balcony.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with like a with one little desk lamp. Yeah,
it's great lightnings and such stuff there. Nature at his best.
He would say something, Dylan's sitting on the bad like
like reading a reading Playboy or something. Yeah, yeah, Pat,
you just enjoy that lightning storm, watched nature to ejaculate
all over the fucking country whatever it was. If we
need that more of that, more of nature's scene.
Speaker 6: Oh then you got what Oh but you got to
come see it. This is it's funny about them. I
got a cop.
Speaker 8: See.
Speaker 6: He's like, all right, oh godcha.
Speaker 3: I've seen I've seen all I need to see of
nature and all of it's some stormic activity.
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 6: And they were in they're in Florida. And it became
it became tough after nineteen ninety two because when he
had you know what, he asked people if they want
to go watch the lightning in Tampa. They thought they
met the hockey team, you know. But so there he
is said, trembling trembling at the thought, now do you
remember these vignettes that first started introducing him to or
how they went about it there.
Speaker 3: I wasn't watching yet. I had no clue when I
when I when I started watching all I you know,
I harded hearing about this guy and I was like,
who the fuck is this Sid? Like, right, he doesn't
have a has Bro you know, my my roster, and I,
you know, it's true, the roster that I was familiar
with were whoever was whoever had a halfbro figure makes
a ton of sense at that point. The way they
did it was they started shooting vignettes where everybody in
the roster started talking about the Sid justice that was
coming to the W And I didn't have any words
from Sid. It just had a picture of Sid, well,
like a video of Sid close up of him making
maniacal faces or making you know, kind of normal faces,
but set to music that was very It wasn't like
psycho music, but it was kind of like looming, you know,
foreboding kind of music, like, oh, what is this guy
going to be about? And they had people from Piper
to to across the talent roster just do these interviews
about this guy that's coming in as if they all
know about him before we've ever laid eyes on him
as fans, and these things to start earring on primetime
wrestling and on the syndicated shows, and it's a hell
of a way to bring a guy in. I can't
remember them doing it quite this way where they have
a bunch of wrestlers talk about the arrival of a
guy before he gets there, you know, and such. That's fascinating.
Speaker 6: And this is at a time when you know, certainly
there'd be WCW fans that would recognize him. But this
is not at a time where you came in, you know,
to WWF and most of the fans knew who you
were ahead of time. So they could really mold this
clay in terms of how fans would perceive Sid coming
in the door without a ton of context. And so
here's a sample of how it starts to sound on
primetime and we'll we'll dig into this a little more
as we got any.
Speaker 14: Launch.
Speaker 15: Stay are shitty, got three and seventeen pounds, six foot nine.
Speaker 16: Justice can do anything he wants to.
Speaker 1: Sid Justice.
Speaker 3: He's just the man I've been looking for.
Speaker 17: With your size and intensity, you're a prime candidate for
my chief tax collector.
Speaker 3: And you know what that means, you.
Speaker 17: Tax cheats out there wouldn't be able to cheat one
more day, Bobby he In.
Speaker 2: The mystery continues to grow concerning this.
Speaker 17: New arrival here in the World Wrestling Federation.
Speaker 8: Sid Justice, Well, I know Jimmy Hart and Sessational Sherry
and coach, and I know some of the people are
are we really looking forward to signing this guy up?
Speaker 2: But well, perhaps he doesn't want a manager.
Speaker 11: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Perhaps he's on his own.
Speaker 11: Big as he is, he can be on his own,
he can be alone.
Speaker 3: So there's all that booing, I sort of think that
it was Skinner coming down. Yeah, that's probably got it from. Honestly,
I watched a Prime Time where Skinner was on and
all I heard was booing when they went back to
the studio. But that's pretty fucking intriguing for the time.
I want to know what this guy's about. After that.
Speaker 6: Of course, Roddy Piper at ir S there on those
pre tapes, and Sean Mooney and Bobby Heenan inside the
Primetime wrestling studio where they filmed it, filled it rather
with Titan employees to cheer or jeer as appropriate. So
that's how we started hearing about this Sid And you
heard that music, man, that's that's some like scary music there.
Speaker 9: It is.
Speaker 3: It's definite thing that I would be I was expecting.
Speaker 6: So we go forward to July and as these things
are airing on WWF Television WWF Tapes TV at the
Saddle Dome in Calgary, and what this is is Sid's
very first w w F. The aforementioned appearances were him
running out when a heel issues a challenge in clearing
the ring, not having a bona fide matchup, and do
you know what's great about this match?
Speaker 9: Boss?
Speaker 6: They released it on the WWE unreleased DVD set Get
Out of Here? Are you prepared to watch Sid's very
first WWF match? No talk about and while I prepare,
this your earliest memory of him in the ring, Like,
what do you remember him doing in the ring?
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember it now. I imagine that I
saw him. I imagine that it's funny. So I imagine
that I must have seen him on All American Wrestling
at some point, because that's pretty much all I was
watching during late ninety one was All American Wrestling. So
I imagine he must have wrestled at some point on there,
But honestly, the first real memory I have of him
in the ring is that that I can concretely remember
is that Saturday Night main event, he and Hogan. That's
what I can definitely remember as being you know, I
know I saw him wrestle there, but I'm wonder if
you have such a gesus he was like top of
his game by then. Yeah, yeah, and that's that's kind
of that's kind of it, like that's where that's that's
my my biggest memory of when he turns on Hogan
and becomes the really crazy psychopath.
Speaker 6: So you really had no conception of Sid as a babyface.
You really just learned of him very It.
Speaker 3: Was very little. Like I mean again, I was watching,
and so I knew who he was, and I must
have seen him wrestle against the Jobber. I must have,
because I'm sure he was doing it fairly regularly, given
that he was still so fresh, you know, but I
I didn't really know. I certainly didn't know about any
affiliation with Hogan or really this much about this uh,
this Jake Roberts thing either, right, But you know, I
knew he was a baby face. I knew he was
a good guy, and I knew by February that he
was a friend of hultkviin. So if he's a friend
of Hull Covid, he's a friend of mine.
Speaker 6: Open that little link I just dropped in your email
box there, and we're about to watch and it's available
on YouTube, isolated from the aforementioned unreleased set that came
out with It's like a three disc set with a
bunch of matches that are just historical curiosities. Yeah, they
had Sean Mooney and Charlie Caruso. I think do the
stuff in studio, not between the matches. But here it is,
and you're going to listen along. This is, of course
not it's on television taping, but it's not tape for distribution,
so there's no commentary right for the match, but you
can hear the sights and sounds of the building and
the ring and everything. Let me know when you're ready,
and we're gonna watch it along with the Solar. I'm
ready to go, So if you have it, follow my lead.
I'm going to hover here over the play button and
we're gonna play on my one three two one the
following contests right one.
Speaker 5: Ball, left pointed to the ring license, nice and all.
Speaker 3: Sure by the sensations sixty pounds making old jacket, I
guess he was as.
Speaker 18: The pairs.
Speaker 2: Million dollars of tad do be awfi you.
Speaker 6: Can hear my audio pops.
Speaker 3: Yes, where Mike McGirk.
Speaker 6: And his opponents for the first time.
Speaker 19: Weighing a three hundred and eighteen pounds. I'm hailing from
any place.
Speaker 2: He wants to make Jess said.
Speaker 3: Justice all music. I can hit him tower above the people,
and he's over the hid.
Speaker 7: Everybody in waw wrestling rating, they notice what man they're
what they man?
Speaker 18: The man is aid Justice.
Speaker 6: So I was doing that whole short monologue to the
cameo from the very beginner. Yet and he's got red trunks.
Wow oo, I sure he doesn't let it ok, that's
got rass on it. Put of the distractions. The dibios
can kick it off for the fetal accident and learn
also set So I invite to look at sid as
a face.
Speaker 7: Here.
Speaker 6: This is this is the most unvarnished.
Speaker 3: Like a few week I get to my parents for sEH.
It's it's faster than they put him against Ted dibiosiste.
Speaker 6: Yeah that says a lot too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well established of course reverse the ropitep. That's hilariot.
It's one of the abs.
Speaker 6: And Ted's pumping for him like you would a big
time to anything yep. And sixteen the floor goes tap
and so he's screaming like he's a big ten day before.
It's funny because say Ted as a podcast and co
host friend said died bid an episode of course, said,
is a snapshot happen And they try trying to get
Ted to talk about this match, and they kind of,
you know, if it was simple like the Devins had
trust and tend to figure out if sid was in
the bookcause it's such a tripping out or the title. Yeah,
and doesn't remember who fucking doesn't remember a day of
this question.
Speaker 3: A minute of this match said, uh gets table to
big a time of trap. Yes, it's over at the
top of the floor. Then I take it together show
the imagine being his uh you know, being his coach
hos time on the show and like you know, you're
pulled building your whole show around Ted talking about this.
Speaker 6: Match, no fucking number round and as it so fucking
the totally run down. But I'm sure there is.
Speaker 3: Something to do.
Speaker 6: I'm sure Vince parried him in his first aunt to
do the gunner and I do the asses. Yeah, sure,
see I never conn a little at a million bucks. Yeah,
if you can ever put ants up into asso and
you're not gonna have the knife Ted picking them up
and dragon and said to the floor. It's just wild this,
he said, selling like this, like kicking the chops. It's
almost like they want to see the full rings that
that you.
Speaker 3: Can do it?
Speaker 6: Yeah, already, then pushing some tools wake.
Speaker 3: They also trust to one set of the post, so
pushes any from the floor and he also takes it
on the shower and the red truck trag flat tray.
That tchabout that?
Speaker 6: I screaming, he says. The rod here are by a
show can hide that drop? How about sid paar enough
background and the drop to me, I love that.
Speaker 3: That's it. That's just thing I thought for the new arms,
and we started doing as old as.
Speaker 6: The skyscraper days to put the crowd on the side.
Speaker 3: Very sid oh the.
Speaker 6: Loaded hers shows a purse, tell him.
Speaker 3: And that's why jesus you get up there. I havn't
said did Clinton take fully black bunks try to show
that he's he's a team play. Would him takes high
bus for you can't take me be awesome?
Speaker 6: It probably is exquesting that if I want to be
a baby face, you need to see what it looks
like for yourself.
Speaker 3: Jesus fucking flu you doing a big times if I
believe that you love Jesus girl.
Speaker 6: Power to kick out. I look at the traps on Sid.
Speaker 3: Look at it, look big traps there you strang?
Speaker 9: What?
Speaker 20: Yes?
Speaker 3: He did the fist drop Sid set up.
Speaker 6: I gotta talking about ah and this one he doesn't
really he's dead. I used to love how said he
used to sell just emotions.
Speaker 7: I am.
Speaker 3: I am not going to suggest winning sed.
Speaker 21: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wasn't expecting. He just fucking fell light flat back
and said, shown who can take a vertical sup.
Speaker 6: Life to kill.
Speaker 3: Though. I haven't really got to teach to call.
Speaker 6: And inter way war for her rights.
Speaker 3: I just want to kind of see what you can do.
Speaker 6: You're gonna kind of lose, and you're able.
Speaker 3: You're arsenal. You're allowed to portray him entertainment stand part
and were being entertain right now, said Hits it takes
a thin body snag from Tobasso falls off the middle
right with that back of their attacks. It's stupid. This
is a stupid way.
Speaker 6: It said, catches an inner right hand. Oh goes off
that fucking face because big white hands come on the
DBS and buckle Si with the stinger splash. Who ever
saw that from him?
Speaker 3: That was like, you know, almost a Stiller splash, but
he kind of shoulder first and lag deep stir in.
Speaker 6: The next to second attack on the right guns one
times there gets said Basco man that a repining verdict
takes off for the double acid on the back of
the head. Those golden curls of said justice ship looks
up the garnish with big ten reversal by Sid who
we got here, we are, here, we go where we
go power bomb and they know.
Speaker 3: He falls with it to the knee, stucks him up.
Speaker 6: It's over.
Speaker 3: Who as a sheet.
Speaker 6: All music.
Speaker 3: Either's people raising hulk hogn videos. That's kind of.
Speaker 6: Imagine going home from the saddle down that night and
be like, yes, Sid was there and he fucking beat
Dbasi with no problem.
Speaker 3: Unreal.
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe they came out with this because there
was a period of time where I wasn't paying very
close attention to WWDVD releases. Maybe they came out with
this and I don't know, but where is the DVD
with everyone's everyone who matters first match?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Man? They should do that.
Speaker 6: That'd be tremendous, at least their first televised match, their
first first match taped, because I'm you know, not everybody
starts on a TV taping like this, though I bet
a lot more do than you would think that matter
that who he would care to see their first WWF
match on? But there should be a release. I mean
seven discs. I don't care of everyone who's ever mattered
the first match they've ever had on tape for WWF.
Get to work, folks.
Speaker 3: Where is it?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Right, get it out? Put it on peacock Like, what
the fuck are you waiting for? Put ads in there,
programmatic ads each match. Let's make some money here and
let's give the people. Let's finally realize the promise.
Speaker 3: Of the vault.
Speaker 6: Do you know what I'm saying exactly? This is a
tantalizing glimpse, this unreleased matches thing of what they could do.
But it's just like a grab bag of different matches
that you know, you might be curious about that never
saw air, and this is a great example of it.
Speaker 3: So I think that'd be an amazing DVD set to
just have all, like a number of people's first WWE matches.
Speaker 6: And it'd be so much sweeter too, if it's like
this one where there's no commentary and you just get
to hear the crowd's organic reactions seeing this character for
the first time. Amazing, amazing stuff. So so fortunate that
this came out, you know, and that we weren't toasting
Sid before we got a chance to see a match
like this. Yeah, that's been one of the magic of TLFX.
Speaker 13: Man.
Speaker 6: As we've gone, it's become more and more sensible to
look back on careers because more and more material has
come out. It's just like, the access to stuff like
this that we had to just imagine in our heads
before is it's just amazing. So he continues on the
loop that again was July eighth of nineteen ninety one.
He turns around works July ninth, nineteen ninety one, a
TV taping in Edmonton defeating the Warlord does Sid justice again?
I believe in a match that never saw air. He
then moves to the team it ain't so I know
it's not fair, and look at this is in keeping
with the promise he's not in any house shows. He
jumps next to a TV taping in Worcester, mass on
July twenty ninth, where he takes on Typhoon and defeats him.
And then he jumps to a TV taping in Portland,
Maine on July thirtieth, nineteen ninety one, to defeat Typhoon again.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 6: And he made his WWF television debut on the July
twentieth episode of Superstars of Wrestling, and it just goes
from there. Now, what we're about to watch is a series.
It's it's like a it's a compilation that someone put
together on YouTube, and I'll be sure to shout them
out here, but I think it's a really nice compendium
that kind of gets us up to speed on how
sid was being presented in these early WWF days, including
I mean we're talking July here, not much time until survivors,
pardon me, until SummerSlam.
Speaker 3: SummerSlam.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you got to get him positioned as the
special guest referee, and you know things are on the
skids with Warrior and WWF, so I'm sure Vince is
starting to have a wandering eye as far as you know.
If if we don't have much time left with the
Warrior because he's such a pain in the ass, how
am I going to position the next baby face to
get the hulk Hogan rub?
Speaker 3: How can I get Sid to be the next Hulk Hogan? Wait?
Speaker 7: What?
Speaker 3: Who's the next hull Hogan brother? What do you mean, dude?
Who's the heck hul Hogan brother? Terry?
Speaker 6: I just felt obliged to call you. I just got
off the phone with Sid from ww and he had
one He had one wish. I said, you know, here's
the magic wand and well, what do you want?
Speaker 22: Right?
Speaker 6: I want to see what he'd come up with? And
I want to run a by your pal. He said
he wants Hogan spot.
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that? Brother? I said, said,
what do you want? And he said, I want huld
Cogan spot? And I said, all right, you got it.
How do you feel about that, Terry? What do you
mean by how I feel? It's gone? Dallest thing back, dude,
For a moment, It's kind of like whoa dude, and
I kind of jumped ahead, Brother kind of came, you know,
kind of jumped the gun and the whole thing. Dude,
who are you talking about? Brother, I'm talking about Sid
said so Justice the next hult Cogan, h U who
you been talking to? Brother? I'm not gonna said, what
do you mean? Said dude.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, dude. I'm in a little bit of a
state of shock right now.
Speaker 3: I gotta say, dude, I'm taking a back Brother, and
I'm kind of like, you know, kind of replay kind.
Speaker 6: Of I'm waiting for you to like laugh or like
you know, just say you're you're you're ribbing me and
you're not doing that.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of replaying the last like seven years in
my mind, dude, at at a kind of drastic pace.
I was kind of understanding, dude, dude, where does Sid
kind of you know the equation? Brother, I'm not really
kind of digging this kind of creative move, Dude.
Speaker 6: I've seen him. He's Jack Brother, looks like a million
bucks dude, but you told him he could have my spot?
Speaker 3: Like what I mean, well, how do we know what
you're going on? Hiatus? And uh, you know you gotta
leave you know, steroids and all that ship. We gotta,
we gotta let you go. I said, he can be.
You can take the Hulk Hogan spot. What do you
mean by that, brother, Well, I mean you go and
the next day and you know, we introduce Hulk Hogan
and said, Justice, what you're gonna be Hulk Cogan. Dude, well,
he's not gonna be Terry Blea. He's gonna be We're
gonna be.
Speaker 6: We thought for a second, okay, well I'm not as
weird as I was, because at first, brother, I thought
you meant you were gonna put yellow trunks on him
and call him Hulk Hogan. I mean, that's my spot.
I mean, hmm, it's sound like you're above doing it
with sit and diesel. I mean with a razor and diesel.
I'm gonna he's gonna he's gonna come down. So right now,
he said, Justice, Right, I get it. So you know
you're gonna go, You're gonna go take your hiatus after WrestleMania,
and so right after that was You're gone. He's gonna
be hul Cogan. He's gonna come down with the whole
Camania shirt and red in the yellow and he's gonna
come down, it's gonna rip it off. And so I say,
you know what you're gonna do? Brother, I'm hul Cogan.
Speaker 9: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna little m I don't know. Can you
plan a you could you just kind of go step
by step? Brother? What is it? How are you bookings?
Need to understand? Like what am I kind of like?
What am I am? I putting my my my gimmick
on the line. Dude? Is that what I mean?
Speaker 6: I'm the red and yellow.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 6: You're saying he's gonna have yellow trunks. No, Terry, He's
gonna have red trunks, red trunks.
Speaker 3: He's going to be brother of the the the the
other whole Cogan.
Speaker 20: What what.
Speaker 3: What do you mean? What what what other Hull Cogan
is gonna be the you know whole Cogan number two brother?
Like Invader number two.
Speaker 6: You know Assassin number two. You know we always wrestling to.
Speaker 3: What do you what do you have there? And they
get you know, number one number two, you get the
Mass Superstar number one, you have Mass super Terry.
Speaker 6: Come on, come on, you know Tim Woods, right, mister
wrestling too in Atlanta?
Speaker 3: What you know what Woods? Dude?
Speaker 6: What a tremendous.
Speaker 3: Mark.
Speaker 6: What I'm trying to say in our business, Terry, there's
a rich heritage of number twos. We believe in number two,
no matter where it lands, no matter who's facing. And
I'll tell you, we believe in number two. And I'm
a big fan of number two. So we're gonna we're gonna,
you know, he's so so yes, he'll be hul Cogan
number two, and then he's gonna become hul Covid number
one after you're gone. Instead of mister wrestling too, we're
gonna call him Hulk Hogan number two. Well, mister Hulk
Hogan two, it's gonna be his name, mister, mister Hulk
Hogan two. All right, fine, another shirt, mister, and.
Speaker 3: Then and then you come back. But eventually he's going
to become mister Hulk Hogan one. And then you come
back and you're mister mister Hulk Covid number two, and
Rocks are gonna call you Hulk dookie. What's going on, dude,
I'm kind of are you ribbing me?
Speaker 7: Brother?
Speaker 3: I'm in his I feel like I'm getting April? All right?
Are we talking double ribs? Dude? Well, brother, I'll just
what's next the ribs? Dude? Are we there? Are we there? Exactly?
Speaker 6: Are we at the point of double ribs? Are we
at the point of meta ribs?
Speaker 3: Brother? What's next? Interested we can go out? There's a
barbecue place where you can go do we can get
double ribs? If that's what you're feeling, dude, I'm are
you double ribbing me? Brother?
Speaker 6: What's next? Like Doukie house a m D Brother?
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you want me to fucking doctor? Dude?
Is that what I'm doctor? Doctor? Doukie? Dude? Well, I mean,
Terry's not a bad idea, brother, I've.
Speaker 6: Been here a long time.
Speaker 3: Dude.
Speaker 6: Made you a lot of money, brother, and you made
me a lot of money to it. I'm forever appreciative, brother.
But to have this bullshit of Hulk Hogan number two
come in, brother, and you're gonna actually call him that?
I mean this, this dude's big, but he's no Hulk Hogan, brother,
and he's definitely no hul Hogan number two.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, Terry, I mean, how do we know
he's on a hul COVID?
Speaker 23: What that was?
Speaker 3: Immediate?
Speaker 23: Terry?
Speaker 6: How do we know he's out a hull COVID. What
let me get a sentence out first, pal, here's a box.
Speaker 3: I'm here, not done speaking, Terry, you just gotta wait till.
Speaker 6: What Look, here's some schematics. We've drown up here, sit
on a box of wheaties.
Speaker 3: Look what we've done is we've done We've we've kind
of done a a A A an image alteration and
we've looked like we've seen what sid you know, mister
Hulk Hogan too would look like on the cover of
Sports Illustrated, the same one. Oh yeah, we're gonna put
this out there. We're gonna, you know, after your take
your hiatus because of your you know, you're misuse of steroids,
We're gonna bring in problem and so I'll have a problem, dude.
I'm I'm what do you mean a problem? I'm dude.
I've used steroids, brother, but I'm not a steroid abuser dude.
Speaker 6: And we're gonna bring in someone in your stead that
definitely doesn't use steroids and said.
Speaker 3: Well we know for a fact that terror that that
that that Terry Too said, Terry Udy, what what you mean,
Terry Youdy Doe, what's that mean?
Speaker 9: Brother?
Speaker 3: Terry Justice?
Speaker 6: What picture of the has Bro. Okay, the said Justice
has Bro. But instead of Suggestice Terry Justice, Terrence Justice,
we're talking Terrence Mania.
Speaker 3: What I love that. I mean, Terrence, where are we going? Dude?
What's the game plan?
Speaker 6: He starts like just basically reverting to this like game plan,
game plan, like that's that's that's his emergency button, like
what he feels under siege, Like what's the plan? What's
the game plan? Like, I need to see the game plan?
Speaker 24: Brother?
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, you know, Terry, you wanted to
You wanted to go and and and make movies. Brother,
you told me I couldn't. You said how to get
off the fucking juice? Dude, Terry, you know you have
your own problems with drugs. You're a drug addict. Jesus Christ, Vince.
Speaker 6: You you're breaking my heart.
Speaker 3: Brother. Brother, I'm a mean dude. We've we've done ship together. Brother.
That's how I know, Well, that's how I know you're
an addict because I know what I have done, and
I know what I'm capable of, and I know that
I'm it's impossible for me to be an addict. You
you are a completely addicted you know drug.
Speaker 6: You can I can I not leave unremarked upon what
we've just sketched out here. If I'm reading this ride
the guy we just saw work Teddy b Assi in
his first w F match, Sid Justice is going to
go on to the point where Hulk exits stage right
and he takes the center stage as the new Hulk Hogan,
and his name is going to be Terrence Justice. He
changes his name from Sid to Terrence when it's time
to be the top guy, Terrence Justice.
Speaker 2: He's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast.
Speaker 1: He's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack and m
JP Sorow.
Speaker 3: I mean, you could do Hulk Justice and that makes
you feel better?
Speaker 7: Bro?
Speaker 3: What you know?
Speaker 9: I don't.
Speaker 3: Can I talk to him? Brother? Can I talk to
this Hulk Justice? Dude? Uh no, Terry, that's not really ethical?
Speaker 6: What uh vince?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 3: Sid is on the phone? Shit?
Speaker 25: Uh?
Speaker 6: All right, you know what, Just put him on there,
put him on speaker. Brother, We're gonna figure this out
right now.
Speaker 3: You put him on brother. Lets connect this fucking phone call. Dude.
I want to know what's going on, brother. I mean,
all right, you know what, if this is the way
it's going to be, it's the way it's going to
be all right? Can you can you patch in mister
mister Hulkgan too, please please Emily, mister McMahon, and also
take off your brother, Vince, Vince, I just want to
let you know you're on speakerphone and Terry's here, Hulks
here as well. Brother.
Speaker 9: What do you?
Speaker 3: Who's this? Dude? Who are you? Dude? You want my spot?
Speaker 8: Brother?
Speaker 3: I talk to my spot. I want to know, dude,
where's my spot?
Speaker 12: Brother?
Speaker 3: Where did you put my spot? Dude? I had it
right on me, brother, this whole time, and now you're
saying I'm getting word that you're taking my spot, but
you took it, dude? Where are you at? Brother? I
don't have the authorization to talk to you?
Speaker 6: What what a response?
Speaker 9: I mean?
Speaker 6: You talk about something that's gonna leave Hope just at
a loss for words.
Speaker 7: What do you what?
Speaker 3: Vince? What was he talking about? Dude? Uh?
Speaker 11: Done?
Speaker 3: Said uh uh? I authorize you to converse with them
with Terry Beliam huld Cocain number one. Like, oh my god,
he says.
Speaker 6: Sid, I authorize you to converse with dry book.
Speaker 18: Why is he being so formal?
Speaker 3: What is he reading?
Speaker 6: Like a contract out loud. Basically, what is he doing? Like,
what does he think what extra protection does he think
it affords him to say in that moment, Darren Hull
Coga number one, please meet all Coga number two.
Speaker 3: No, Cogan number one, please meet Hull Coga number two. Converse.
So I'm authorized. I want to get this straight. So
I'm gonna tell you something, Hulk Hogan. I told Vince
McMahon that I wanted your spot.
Speaker 9: What what.
Speaker 3: Spot are you talking about? Is gonna hit you in
the head like a spot. I'm gonna hit you in
the head like a spot. Brother. We're talking about like allgion? Dude?
What do you mean by spot? Brother? Have I got
lesion of doom?
Speaker 11: Brother?
Speaker 26: Allegion done? Shot the moon Dog's dude? Right oh now
talking about brother?
Speaker 3: Told the moon dogs dude, what are you talking about? Brother?
Speaker 6: He's so exasperated, he's so he's so desperate for like clarity.
Speaker 3: Hull Cogan, I having my contract the whole Cogan spot.
What Vince just looks down, he looks down at something
on his desk. I am, yeah, I don't know about bust.
I don't believe in contractual basis of uh employment. What
I do believe is in his handshakes.
Speaker 6: I don't believe it is a contractual basis of employment.
Speaker 3: I believe in handshakes. And there is no evidence whatsoever
that I have signed Sid to any contract that he
is claiming. I have the papers in my hand. I
have rod here a contract that says I am fulk holding.
Did you talk to Marvel first? Brother? Wait a minute,
what what is he talking about? Brother?
Speaker 11: What was he saying?
Speaker 3: Dude? I can't hear him, brother.
Speaker 6: I have gone on to the trouble of shaving my
head up to the back of my hairline.
Speaker 3: I have a fu Manchu well, I mean sid Olk two.
We didn't talk about that. We didn't talk about the
facial features of them. Of mister Hogan one, hold on,
hold on.
Speaker 6: So with his months before he comes in, Sid gets
agreement across the table across the desk from Vince that
he's got Hogan spot if he just signs, he signs
and he has a report back date. Okay, because like,
let's say there's something contractual at WCW where he has
to wait it out. Four months later, they finally set
the appointment to sit down and talk about his future.
What shape it's going to take and sid youuty, picture
him shows up at Titan Towers with his hair shaved,
bald up the middle, and just a ring of hair
around his head just like Hogan and a fou manchee mustache. Cidyuty,
I thought it was gonna be all coke.
Speaker 3: Oh what's this power? I told you what I told you.
I wanted the Hull COVID spot.
Speaker 6: Okay, get to work, photoshoppers, you know what to do.
He shows up with a fu Manchu.
Speaker 3: Just imagined. Also imagine too. It's not like he's got
Hulk Cogan's hair. He's got the curly hairs. All right,
you got the curly hair.
Speaker 11: But in that.
Speaker 3: Well, this is not exactly what I had planned when
I offered you or gave you the Hulkogen spot. Potentially
if things turned out that way, and you know, everything
worked out in your favor. But uh, this is certainly
a development that we will take under consideration, and we
will h Yeah. When Vince doesn't like the look, he
says things like this is certainly a development that we
will take under consideration. That's when you know you fucked up.
Speaker 8: He said, my church a case of Vina sausages. And
I sent him an autograph picture.
Speaker 3: I want you to do me a favor right now, okay,
I want you send I want you to send a
garden a the Ana sausages to all cod sid I listen, pal,
I do a. I think that's a very generous gesture.
I don't think you understand how hull Cogan is going
to take that. I don't dare. I want him to
know that I have his spot and he has.
Speaker 6: By the way, what he's saying all this, he has
his head shaved, almost bald, and he's a food man
chew mustache.
Speaker 3: I can't let that not I see. And you think
that is going to be accomplished with you with me
sending hull Cogan a box of Vienna sausages. I do
be sausages say a lot. I believe they do. I
believe they do. Well, let's tell you what. Let's not
waste another moment. Let's uh have you down in the
studio and we'll take some photographs, some promotional photographs.
Speaker 11: Is with.
Speaker 3: Mister, what do you what do you uh? What do
you want to call yourself? Hulk Justice? Ulk Justice? There
it is.
Speaker 6: I look ten years on man, well, I love it
when Vince feels like he's in the alpha position, and
it makes people feel like nothing. I equally adore when
Vince is actually worried that this guy might actually shoot
this office up and he starts dealing with him with
that that reticence in his voice. Oh my god, is
that depth? Is that depth?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 3: When? When? When when vincick Man is not the craziest
person in the room, you know that there is an issue. Yeah,
let's tell you what, why don't you why don't you,
uh you take a break for a moment and we'll
be with you and we'll take some promotional photos with
Hulk Justice. This is great, This is great stuff. Pal,
Can we get him uh down in wardrobe or something? Great? Better? Say,
what the fuck are we going to do with this guy?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 3: How do you?
Speaker 6: Already wanted some sausages and I wanted to listen.
Speaker 3: No, you can go to Vienna on your own time.
What we have here is we have a problem. He
wants to be Hult Justice Hulk Justice. How fucking stupid
is that? I mean, what do we do with that?
He's not even taking like maybe if he was Sid Hogan,
that's something we could work with the old Cogan's brother,
Hoult Justice makes no fucking sense. Who is this fucking guy?
Speaker 6: I don't know, but you hired him?
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't hire him. I don't even talk
to this guy.
Speaker 9: Who is he?
Speaker 3: He just came into my office, heying, he's Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 6: What appoignant question for you to ask at this point
of the show, Boss, who is this guy? Well, if
you pull up in the video link that I just
sent you, we're gonna get acquainted.
Speaker 3: Oh boy.
Speaker 6: This is a little more of the aforementioned vignettes of
you know, Sid's coming and different wrestlers on the roster
speaking to it, and then that transition into him being
announced as the special Enforcer for the Summer Slam nineteen
ninety one match. We're HULLL Cogan and the Ultimate Warrior
team up against Sargent Slaughter, General Adnon and Colonel Mustafa
and three on two Matchmaide in Hell. Right on the
other side of the match Made in Heaven the Randy
Savage Elizabeth wedding, which is the other I guess you
could say, main event of that landmark show both for
US and for the WWF at Madison Square Garden and
so We're going to become acquainted with how Sid goes
from this man of tremendous mystery and mystique on WWF
television to the man who will insure justice in this
heated clash between superheroes hul Coke and the Warrior versus
the Saddam Hussein sympathizers at SummerSlam. So if you're cute,
that is it I watched in the beginning. Yeah, we're
taking this all the way through.
Speaker 3: Hold on, I gotta ad here and then.
Speaker 6: Absolutely so a lot of coloring in here to do
on Sid's nineteen ninety one ww frun. It's all about
this run.
Speaker 3: So here we go.
Speaker 6: Three yep, two one. He's so scary, he's got his teeth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, clenched.
Speaker 7: Take you from Winston and me, Sid Justice as the
size and the strength to become a top dog.
Speaker 14: Right here in the World Wrestling Federation, British bulldog.
Speaker 12: You and that Mangie Mutt Winston, do you think that
Sid Justice has all the qualifications of being the top.
Speaker 7: Dog in the World Wrestling Federation.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 7: I know what road he's taking and it's going to
be a surprise to you.
Speaker 2: You know, mister Perfect that said Justice is a god.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's big, he's strong, and he looks straight.
Speaker 19: Kind of reminds me of myself.
Speaker 16: Yeah, hey, Mester Perfect, even though I hate doing a minute,
you're halfway right, said Justice.
Speaker 18: That's a big, strong and tough man. But he's also
hat saw Jim Duggett's kind of guy. Oh I don't
think you said, Oh No, said Justice.
Speaker 7: He's big, he looks tough, he looks like he's done
the kick it hold on of button.
Speaker 3: That's a matter of fact. He kind of reminds me
of us.
Speaker 18: Rush said Justice. We've got one opening left the other
hard organization.
Speaker 7: And you fight even by oh you gotta be Is
that nasty as a what a?
Speaker 18: Oh?
Speaker 3: Hey folks, Oh, Hack sage and dugging.
Speaker 7: I've been checking out this, said Justice, just like everybody else.
Speaker 3: And there's two things I admire about him.
Speaker 7: He's a tough guy, he's an American, and just like
Hack sage and Dugging, he stands for the good old USA.
Speaker 3: Behind that's right. Duggan, forking about.
Speaker 7: The USA stuff, said Justice is one of us.
Speaker 2: That he's right, he's big, he's that's right to food.
He's big and he's made judging.
Speaker 6: Its menacing pos a size and power.
Speaker 7: I said, Justice, he could easily becoming on the one
of us, but not your disaster, can.
Speaker 14: You that's a disasters version call him? Said Justice, a volcano?
Got her all wrong, man, because any.
Speaker 3: Kind I used volcano in the natural disasters earthquakes, said
here's a volcano, but real good, real brother, And what
the fuck a referee? What the fuck is wearing?
Speaker 21: Doesn't get just hope he isn't buy a to fire
because he could beat a perspectim what you got under.
Speaker 10: You don't need the likes of hor Rod Roddy Roddy
Piper and I R S.
Speaker 1: Said Justice, six foot down, three.
Speaker 7: Hundred and seventeen pounds.
Speaker 3: I don't know the guy.
Speaker 19: I don't know if he is I don't know if
he isn't, but I'm dying.
Speaker 3: That's see, Sid, Justice, You're.
Speaker 17: Just the man I've been looking for. With your size
and intensity, you're a prime candidate for my cheap tax collector.
Speaker 7: And you know what that means, you tax cheats out
there wouldn't be able.
Speaker 6: To cheat one more game, lover flab Now the arena
promos for summer, said man, Man, is.
Speaker 3: That I don't chair.
Speaker 21: Prod you that got Toddy may best still guest referee
makes don't get friends too off.
Speaker 12: Wait a minute, do I understand you to say it
does not make any difference who the special guest.
Speaker 6: Referee at that one Slaughter.
Speaker 3: That's what he just said.
Speaker 12: Soever, Well, would you like to meet that special guest.
Speaker 21: Referee file me, I want to meet that special referee
for supper slam the batch made of hem.
Speaker 12: Here is special guest referee for the handicapped tag suit.
Speaker 19: Justice.
Speaker 18: Wow, that turn of hod come you are turning up?
Speaker 3: Are you ready?
Speaker 18: Task?
Speaker 3: For him to say these shows that he didn't Wait
a minute, these guys are.
Speaker 18: I guess we don't know shit. Justice stands in this
whole day presenting arms to suit.
Speaker 8: Justice jump to the.
Speaker 6: Car ship, all right, welcome to the core. He thinks
he's on his side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, se what sid has to say?
Speaker 27: Well, come just sagainst Slaughters for said justin.
Speaker 3: That the for your door, big pop, that's a that's
a that's a signal, and I've never heard of one.
Speaker 6: I'm sure we'll get the sizes differ. Sure, this old
w stubby traveling battery. He went to all three and
said he's not parts of their cores. A nice short promo.
He always thrived with those nothing complicated. Yeah yeah, let's yep.
D On Hogan and Warrior.
Speaker 3: Here with Jim Most said, it's going to face off
for the other half. There we go Blue.
Speaker 6: No, he is soaking up.
Speaker 3: Listening, going to be favoring something liquid pouring off his chin.
Put that star power. Look at that?
Speaker 6: Don't they look amazing?
Speaker 3: Guys, Jesus Christ, what a tree.
Speaker 6: So Vince thought he was getting an international incident.
Speaker 11: R book by Justice.
Speaker 19: I recall recently.
Speaker 6: Hear before he shrunked Cottius Good.
Speaker 12: Flutter in company, and they tried to persuade.
Speaker 3: You the studio.
Speaker 6: By the way, in the YouTube account of Louke Gregory
shout out to him for.
Speaker 12: This compilation of destruction general, it's entitled said Justice and
Sorry Flutter tv W definition view. The conclusion of that interview,
you emphatically line that you would have any association with
Sage and Slaughters for of destruction.
Speaker 18: However, back to the hardcare, Yep, this may not be
a handicap.
Speaker 3: He didn't even blocking gene like.
Speaker 6: Man, this little man's a big one for him.
Speaker 3: Yes, that might be more so, Man, do I might believe.
Speaker 6: Brother, Yeah, I'm not not.
Speaker 18: Savage al those at the same level he said justice.
Speaker 6: More your face, talking about.
Speaker 18: Intense everybody, give me a shirt of one.
Speaker 6: Spitting water flying off his head.
Speaker 7: I would be there for one reason that one't reason.
Only just see said justice and sire.
Speaker 28: Will be served, but just time will justice be served?
Speaker 18: WHOA, I don't know little lou either.
Speaker 3: I don't even know what I'm looking at. So Little
JP watching that would have been sufficiently Yes, I would
have been I would have been nervous. I would have
been nervous.
Speaker 6: About what side he was going to come down on.
Speaker 3: Yes, because he didn't say he was al Kamaniac, But
he also didn't say he was Sergeant Slaughter's uh, you
know private there and.
Speaker 6: If you watch it when he's a dressing hogan there
in that moment, he's right up in his face.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but both I and Warrior, he's like, you know,
getting right in their face.
Speaker 6: So that is the build to SummerSlam and how SID
was framed. Of course, we know it went down August
twenty sixth, nineteen ninety one, and it's the night where
Vince Fire's Warrior the second he runs through the curtain
for trying to invince his terms hold him up for
more money at the last minute. It had been a
tumultuous nineteen ninety one for Warrior and the ww front office.
We know this because years later he would sue the
company and all kinds of memos back and forth between
the two became public record, and so that was kind
of why we chose remember of Summer Slam ninety one.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a bunch of stuff that we could
say about, like what the payouts were on the show
and all the stuff that had come out from that lawsuit.
That it was kind of a struck us as something
we could, you know, say more about than just the
results of the show before we realized the level of
expectation and appetite out there for the deep dive research.
So that's the Warrior side of the story, and it's
an important side of the story because it's Warrior's departure
that leads to a to hear SID put it kind
of an acceleration of the plans to get SID on
the road because with Warrior gone, all of a sudden,
there's a smoke and hole in the house. Show circuit
isn't there, Yeah, for sure. So for a guy who
was brought in under the auspices of working only TVs
and pay per views until he became the man. And
at WrestleMania, we get on the road, all of a sudden,
this blow up with Warrior happens and bulp, Pal, you know,
plans change, you know.
Speaker 3: What, you know, we're just kind of in a unique
situation and we need you know, we need things done
away that will allow us to to further are the
entertainment factor of our programming.
Speaker 6: Okay, whatever that means.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Well, I mean, sid, I
don't mean to you know, you gotta you gotta go
on the road, Pal, just no other way to to
say it. You gotta go on the road.
Speaker 6: What Asia, that's Vinces, That's Vince's way.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 6: He's like he gets you on the hook and all
of a sudden, unforeseen circumstances and he's going back on
your original conception of how this is going to work. Yeah,
and it's like he needs you know, he needs It's
not all he needs a favor. It's almost like like
you should know that that's how it works here, and
if you don't, you're being unprofessional. Right, because we're the
We're the premier organization for a reason, and that's one
thing Sid is. He talks about it a lot, and
his shoot interview is blown away by how full these
buildings are relative to what he was used to in
Jim Hurd's w c W, which makes all the sense
in the world, let alone before he walks out at
the Hoosier Dome, a packed stadium scale show the likes
of which he'd never seen before, and so he's he's
taken with WWF as an organization in terms of how
professionalized they are. When he goes back to WCW after
this run, one of the things that he does, which
I think he starts to kind of piss people off,
and we'll hear it in the Squeegee story coming up
real soon. He's constantly singing the praises of how professionalized
WWF is. He's seeing a different side of how to
run a wrestling company than what he came up in
in WCW, and there's a lot of things that he
thinks really need to be imported and instilled in WCWWWF
was doing. So it's not like he's entirely disillusioned by
the situation. But Sid is definitely starting to feel like
promisers are being gone back on after just about a
month on television in the company because now Warrior is
gone and we need to accelerate the Sid Justice as
number two babyface and when Hogan departs number one babyface position.
Take a look at this. This appeared in the pages
of a Pro Wrestling Illustrated Boss and we'll explain it
to the people for their benefit. But doesn't this say
it all?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 3: We get it here? Whoa Sid Justice? There?
Speaker 6: It is the second coming of Hult Cogan double truck
feature in p W I.
Speaker 3: What's going on here?
Speaker 6: And that is deeply concerning.
Speaker 3: I'm looking, I'm looking at fucking uh after dude, then
the second old Hogan. Wait in the second hold? What
I mean?
Speaker 6: That is the headline?
Speaker 3: That is the headline.
Speaker 6: In classic p WI fashion, they're showing pictures from w
CW YEP because they always went out of their way
to remind you that, like they were following wrestlers before
Vince made them national stars and changed their nights right,
like they would call mister perfect card heading even after
he came to WWF every single time on every reference
in the magazine, and so yeah, this is like happening
a lot sooner, I think than they had drawn up
in terms of when he's first sitting down with Sid.
Vince McMahon, I don't think he's planning on Warrior being
gone by the end of the summer and all the
ramifications that has for the card. So here's Sid in
a shoot interview talking with Sean Mooney actually about what
happens at the end of Summer Slam. What happens, boss
is after Hogan and Warrior vanquish Sergeant's Laughter and company.
We know, Warrior disappears chasing Adnon with a steel chair
through the curtain. We never see him again at least
yes run and he's hardly ever mentioned. But in the
ring afterwards, after helping, you know, instill truth justice in
the American way, what a Sid and Hulk do They
pose down in the middle of the ring together, and
that's supposed to be really substantial. That's supposed to apparently
get us to think of Sid as somebody that is
tantamount to Hulk Cogan. And here he is talking to
Sean Mooney about his conception of what happened that night
in MSG.
Speaker 8: He said this is what we're going to do with you.
We're going to just You're just going to do TVs
and pay per views for one year, no house shows,
and after WrestleMania you going to start your first house show.
He said, We've never done this with anyone. So I'm thinking, well,
how on the fuck am I going to get paid
for one year? If you don't give me money, He said, well,
we're going to take care of you. I said, oh shit,
you know, so that was, you know, a big chance
I took.
Speaker 11: But what happened.
Speaker 8: What happened was the Ultimate Warriors started demanding more money
and then they fired him at SummerSlam, and it was
set up right since he walked to the curtains they
fired him, and then this is their idea of this
was their version of Hogan passing the torch. He did
the pose down with me, which is the stupidest fucking
thing I've ever heard of my fucking life. That that
was the big goddamn deal. And if you think that's
a big deal, you're as stupid as the rest of them.
So anyway, that's how it happened. So I was pierced
from that moment on and I didn't want to be
there anymore.
Speaker 1: He's a last fan wrestling podcast. He's fan wrestling podcast
with Jack and.
Speaker 6: Wow, that's what they doing. Warrior comes out of Wrestling
eighty too. He poses down with Hogan at the end
of the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the thing that that shows you're you're
an ally of hul Cogan. That events really means something.
He thinks that people are going to see you as
a main inventor after you pose of course that's the rub.
But the way Sid does it, he's so awkward that
it almost is like a comedy idiot. Oh, it's almost
like a comedy routine. At the end of Summer Slam,
it's almost like Hogan has a whole back laughter while
Sid makes a mockery this pose down and his refererational thinking. Dude,
here's your don't thinking, brother, what if dude? What if?
Speaker 7: So?
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna do this pose down? I'm not
a fit of that. I'm not obligated to pose down, brother, Dude. Listen,
Sady's some dude. I dig that. Brother. I'm all about,
you know. If I don't do creative, dude, I'm all about,
you know, taking things that next level. Brother. I get it, dude,
and I want to take Sid Justice's that level. So
what I'm thinking, dude is, you know what if brother,
we kind of portrayed this kind of maybe a mentor
mentee kind of thing. Dude, what do you mean, well,
I want to give you the rub. Brother, you know,
if you're gonna be the next hult Cogan, I want
to give you the rub. M What does that look like?
What does the rub look like to you?
Speaker 11: Well?
Speaker 3: Do what I'm thinking to what if we come down?
What if I have you come down dude? After the
match made in hell? Brother, and you when I do
a pose down kind of like showing hey, you know
what we got here we go, we got we got
hull Cogan, we got the new hul Cogan. You know, brother,
see the album? Thinking that dude. Mm hmm, I see
where you're going. I understand that that is not beyond
my intelligence. Dude, I'm I dig that, brother. So but
but but kind of like we want to kind of
talk long game, right, you know, we're not talking about hey,
you know, you know just the payoffs, dude. Is not
like at the very beginning, we gotta have the payoff
be as we go down the line. So what I'm
thinking about, dude, is what if you know, like you know,
I'm in there alone, I'm posing down brother, and I'm like,
you know what, we need to have Sid just in
this ring right now, Dude. We need Sid here right now, brother.
And so I kind of call you in. I say, Sid,
come on, dude, let's go brother, come on down, And
I think what you should do because again I think, like,
you know, we're talking to having this kind of mentor
mentee relationship. Dude, you kind of just peek your head
out brother, and I'm like, wait a minute.
Speaker 6: What what do you Oh, that's right, he peeks his
head to the curtain. I forget about that, which makes
it all comedy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like kind of like peek out there, dude,
and like, say, did I hear my name? Cause I
think that people will kind of yeah, Sid, Sid, Dude,
come on out with Hull Coagan. You know you guys
are best friends now, brother, and so you come out, dude,
and then we start posing. But you know what, I think,
kind of differentiate dude and kind of show that that
that you need just a little bit more to kind
of get to that next level. Working with Hul Cogan
is that you don't pose perfect dude, right what if
you kind of look like, you know, like you're a
little off, a.
Speaker 6: Little awkward about it, dude, like you're getting your sea
legs from under you like your abyss and TNA taking
my ring?
Speaker 3: Are you calling me awkward? No, dude, Brother, do not.
I'm not calling you awkward. Dude. What I'm saying is, dude,
why don't you maybe you can act awkward? Because I
get it, Dude, You're like, you're a pro and you
gotta you got a physique, dude that goes fucking miles. Brother,
you know we're talking. You know, dude, you got the look, dude.
But what I'm saying is, why don't you act like
you know what you know? Or even better? Brother, play
with this dude. What if you're like, you know what
this Hule Cogan guy, I'm gonna say, Brother, you know
I'm with him in the ring. Dude, he's kind of
getting old right now, dude, you know where you know
he's like, you know, I don't want to take away
his thunder. You know, like you're you're doing me a
favor brother by not out showing me. See do you
see I'm getting there, dude. So like I'm trying to
just pose down with the fans, and you're like, you
know what, I can outpose Hulk Hogan any day of
the week and twice on Sunday, but I'm not gonna
do that here because I want Hulk Hogan. You know,
I don't want to embarrass him, brother, and show him
what a you know, what a weak dute is, because
you don't even know how to fucking pose. You know
what I'm saying, brother, Brother, I want you to go
to the top, dude. But if you if if the
fans get the message that you're trying to show me up, brother,
they're never gonna support you, dude. And I just you
need to be a babyface. Brother. We gotta kind of
push that angle as far as we can. So you
want to help me. Just all want to do, dude,
all want to do is help you. And I think
that if you kind of come out there and and
just kind of like say, hey, you know what, this
this guy, you know, Grandpa Hogan out here, brother, you know,
he's just you know, I don't want to make him
look bad. So I'm just gonna kind of do things
my way. A little bit. I think that's gonna go
a long way with the fans, dude, and showing that,
you know what, respect whole Camania, Dude, Sid respects Hull
Camania and maybe brother, maybe down the line, we're talking
sid Mania. Whoa you know dude, sid Mania? Yeah, dude,
sid Mania like on T shirts. Dude, brother, you know
what dude?
Speaker 11: You know what.
Speaker 3: The future, dude is is unwritten? Brother, who knows? Dude? Right?
Do you want me to go out there and look
like a fool so that I can have sid Mania
down the line. That's what I'm saying. Dude, you kind
of look like a little, you know, a little less
than here and then sid Many is in your future, Dude.
I feel obligated to do that.
Speaker 6: Brother, say less, dude. And so they go to the
ring and it shall be done, and comically, Sid pokes
his head through the curtain, takes center stage with the Hulkster,
poses like a moron, and somehow that makes him the
next top babyface. Of course, Sid sees it for what
it is, especially in retrospect, as you just heard in
that clip, but they're laying it on thick even after SummerSlam.
This clip is from an episode of Superstars, where Vince
McMahon himself spares no hyperbole and framing Sid as the
guy you're supposed to care about.
Speaker 28: Now listen to this, ah the I have never seen
Sid Justice wrestle before.
Speaker 3: Do you know that I've never had the pleasure to
be in.
Speaker 2: The same arena?
Speaker 3: What Vince, it's got the music now?
Speaker 2: Yes, even did sucker?
Speaker 3: Where did you see it? Looking?
Speaker 2: Is that's something about a power bomb?
Speaker 4: We're gonna ask into the ring air set up for next.
Speaker 3: Job or Vince calls out the ovations.
Speaker 28: Talk about an overnight success, all about how overnight it is.
Speaker 2: This man's gonna be caring about her. Go if the
march O man he was unable to return to urging.
Speaker 21: As we have been notified he is.
Speaker 17: This is the man.
Speaker 2: Hopefully we will see that justice will be served as
it relates to Jack.
Speaker 3: Just think Roberts and the younger two can.
Speaker 9: Right about this?
Speaker 3: Check?
Speaker 19: Is this the power bulls?
Speaker 3: A power.
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 3: You didn't fall with it?
Speaker 11: Yes?
Speaker 3: Really, you're gonna count it to ten?
Speaker 18: Everybody fell, all they lives.
Speaker 3: I'm only going to get to.
Speaker 6: A version like emphasizing the ovation. Yeah, trust that he's part.
Speaker 28: I got you play look at this here, hurry and
my dog and Wanda had clean up.
Speaker 3: Talking about two hundred I thoty.
Speaker 19: Five has the power pot.
Speaker 16: Turn us?
Speaker 3: So rust us what carri us I mean.
Speaker 6: Saying like that if Macha Van isn't here, he's the man.
He's clearing the banner here.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: Because the thing, presumably they moved up quite a bit too,
was Sid getting involved in the the wedding stuff afterwards,
realizing that you know, Warrior wasn't going to be there,
they had to transition. Said, I mean maybe he would
have got involved in the wedding angle either way, even
if Warrior didn't disappear. Yeah, and the Jake program wouldn't
have happened. But the way they're talking about him now,
it's like he's he's a filling for Savage and uh
and it's all upside from here for one Sid and
he's coming to the ultimate rescue. So Sid and Jake
start working each other, and the house shows. The house
shows that you know, Vince said Sid wouldn't work in
his first year in the company. Yes, And on an
episode of the DDP Snake Pit podcast that Jake Roberts
has done, he once talked about in an anonymized way
an opponent he faced that I think just just absolutely
has to be Sid. There's no ways talking about anybody else.
And this gives us a little glimpse into how Sid
ran into his first sort of a political frick in
the World Wrestling Federation visa VI the Snake Man. If
you can read this quote here from the podcast that
Jake did about.
Speaker 3: It, mmmm, this is unintentionally. I I had an incident
where a guy was giving me a clothesline every night
and it was freaking ripping my head off.
Speaker 6: He saw those clothes lines there against tibias, they do
fly loose, yep.
Speaker 3: And I was recovering from having next surgery. And in wrestling,
you can make it look like you tore the guy's
head off, or you can tear the guy's head off,
and of course making it look like it is much
better because then the guy can sell it properly. When
you tear somebody's head off, there's no selling it. Man,
You get what you got. And I went to the
guy and called him out. You know, hey, dude, you're
killing me.
Speaker 18: What the hell?
Speaker 3: And he looked at me and said, well, maybe it's
time you get out of the ring. That's a sad
thing to say.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, that's he always put his foot in his
mouth that way, or if anybody challenged him or critiqued
him or came at him, he'd always had this snippy
response that like created all kinds of problems for him.
Speaker 3: Maybe you're a fucking idiot, right, Like, I mean.
Speaker 6: Why did this the Arnt Anderson stabbing thing happens because
he shot off of the mouth about Flair being too old.
I mean, he shouldn't be in.
Speaker 3: There, you know. So the next time we wrestled, he
closed on me, and I did a little maneuver and
snapped his bicep in half with intent, and he went down.
He was grabbing his arm. The bicep rolled up on
his shoulder. Oh my god.
Speaker 6: So I don't believe Jake for a second that he
did it on purpose. I'm not sure how you tear
someone's bicep on purpose, but I know, and how.
Speaker 3: It seems like it was this little simple, That it's
this simple to tear a bicep. That's pretty horror full.
Speaker 6: I think the UFC guys would use it all the
time if there were such a thing as the bicep
to yeah.
Speaker 3: Exactly, like you could just fucking you know. But and
he went down and he was grabbing his arm. The
bicep rolled up on his shoulder. It looked pretty awesome.
And he's screaming to ring the bell. And I jumped
on top of him and grabbed the bicep and just
started squeezing. And I was pissed, and I told him
maybe it was time for him to get out of
the damn Ringow not proud of it. It seems like
you're proud of it. Actually, like you're pretty damn proud
of it. I do need to apologize to him, face him.
I'm not going to call his name out. We all
know him. But he did what he did, and I
did what I did. And he had six months off?
Speaker 6: Wow, he sure did. In a shooting interview talking about.
Speaker 3: That's how is that possible? How's what possible? How did
he have six months?
Speaker 6: Jake is not going to take the time to calculate
exactly how many months it was, Like no one ever had.
Speaker 3: You know, if summersion happened in August, he doesn't matter.
He's back in the ring in in January, and I
I'd have to think that Jake cost himself some Survivor
series money. I mean, I know he still was on
the card, but you can tell just from that magazine
article that Sid versus Jake I think would have been
seen in a more premium spot on the on the show, well,
it was going to be the main event still, I
think it was going to be. It was going to
be Sid and his team versus Jake and his team
as the main event. I mean, that match was the
main event anyway, without Hogan and Taker. Hogan Taker was
not on the main event of the show. It was
middle It was middle of the show. God, God, it
was the main event of boss Man and boss Man,
a llegiing to Doom versus natural disasters and.
Speaker 6: Facking hell Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: That was That was it. He was supposed to be.
That was supposed to sit the main event is fucking
first in ring pay per view.
Speaker 6: That's so wild, yep. Sid saying in a shoot interview
after that or no before that, actually, but about the
same circumstance. I've never stooged done anybody. I can't stooge anybody.
I can't kiss anybody's ass. I can be your friend,
but I can never kiss your ass. That's what I've
told everybody in the business. And Jake was the first
one that fucking got me in some trouble up there.
I don't know if you know what I said or done.
Vince called and got on to me, but you can't
utter a fucking word out there, and then it gets
magnified words like i'd imagine, boss, maybe you should get out.
Speaker 3: Of the ring. Yeah, to Jake Roberts, Yeah, probably not
a good idea, Pal, So that was weird.
Speaker 6: I didn't really like that part of it, Sid, Sid.
So now he's shelved to heal the bicip injury. He's
still on the road because you know, bicep terror isn't
like disqualifying as far as flying in things. But he's
not working in the ring. But he's still making towns.
And as luck would have it, or as perhaps the
opposite of luck would have it, in Greensboro, North Carolina,
the WWF and WCW crews crossed paths which would happen
sometimes on the road, and the boys would interact. It
wasn't like, you know, there was a fucking you know,
some kind of moratorium or some kind of rule where
you couldn't you know, meet with the WCW guys in
a bar somewhere. There's a famous picture from the Attitude
era where the warring companies were in across each other,
and you got like Hogan and Hollywood clothes and Steve
Austin in the same picture and Big show before he
came over to WWF in the picture, and you know
this happens.
Speaker 3: But Sid is. Sid's head is big.
Speaker 6: Sid is seeing big crowds, he's seeing high end production.
He's rubbing shoulders with Hulk Hogan, the biggest star in
the industry, and he's not going to be able to
keep his thoughts to himself about how Bush League the
company he left behind, which years later he would call
an unmitigated mistake, though certainly in nineteen ninety one he's
not feeling that way. And when he sees WCW wrestlers,
he's going to talk about it. And this boss is
where we get the squeegee incident. Oh boy, what do
you know about the squeegee incident?
Speaker 3: Not much? Not much.
Speaker 6: So we're gonna start with Liam wore it, no of it? Right, yeah, okay,
So what what's your general conception of it?
Speaker 3: Don't I just know that there was a squeegee incident, okay,
at one point, like I've learned about it before, but
I don't really remember what it was.
Speaker 6: You just know that at some point Sid is wielding
a squeegee. Yes, And that's the thing with Sid. It's
not so much what he does. It's that he ends
up doing goofy things like playing softball and trying to
tack him over with a squeegee, being an idiot, and
you know, and like being a farmer, and the size.
Like these things aren't goofy in an of themselves, but
when when you put them in Sid's hand or in
Sid's circumstance or environment, they become hilarious. I'm sorry, yes
they do.
Speaker 3: It becomes complete fodder.
Speaker 6: Like that story that Stan Hansen told that we talked
about in part one where he sends Sid to the
ring because Sid suddenly gets a paranoid that they're going
to get counted out of a best two or three
falls match and Sid lunges over the top rope like
a total klutz, or the story Shane Douglas tells in
Continental where Sid go as Lord Timungus goes timbered thinking
Sika's behind him, and he's not like that because it's Sid.
It's like, at least four times funny.
Speaker 3: It's so goofy, it's so goofy.
Speaker 6: Just add that physical awkwardness to it. I mean, look,
he made the Hogan post down look like a comedy routine, yep,
and I don't think he intended to do that.
Speaker 3: So he's just a goofball.
Speaker 6: So we're going to get to one, you know, a
story that just can't you can't hear about Sid and
never forget it. And as people try to, you know,
lean into the positive sentiments about this guy upon his passing,
which is natural and is a classy thing to do.
You just someone's gonna say squeege eventually, just like they're
gonna mention the stabbing, and just like they're gonna mention softball,
you're going to mention it. And we're definitely gonna mention
it right here, because this is when it happens with
the WWF, even though it happened against WCW personnel, namely
Brian Pillman and Mike Graham. Mike Graham, of course, the
son of the legendary Florida promoter Eddie Graham, and wrestler
and someone who is working in the ww front office
then and for years and had a reputation of being
quite a hot head and despite being relatively undersized, not
backing down from the opportunity to engage in fisticuffs. Brian Pillman,
by the way, had very much the same reputation as
that smaller football player who just you know, overcame that
by being just a complete madman, vicious, tough guy. So
we turned to LIAMO. Rourke's book about a Brian Pillman
called Crazy Like a Fox. It's a wonderful compendium of
Brian's career, and of course, naturally he gets to this
point because Brian Pillman figures very prominently in the Squeegee story.
So we're gonna let him set the table rights. The
crew had done a show in Greensboro on October thirteenth
and were set to fly out to Alabama on the fifteenth.
Of The Atlanta given the guys a night at the
Ramata End close to the airport. With many of the
guys drinking at the bar, the recently departed Sid Viscius
dropped in to say hello, little boy. After a few beers, which,
by the way, Sid always talked about not drinking much,
and that's supported by people talk that seemed to talk
about him and observed him on the road. He was
very he was health conscious.
Speaker 3: He was a freak.
Speaker 6: Like we've talked about. He'd be up at four thirty
in the morning, even when on the road. He'd be
on the few guys that would insist on getting two
workouts in a day while traveling as a wrestler. He
would only intend to eat just like protein and just
unmitigated healthy portions and type, not portions, but types of food.
Speaker 3: He wasn't He.
Speaker 6: Didn't engage in anything so smoking weed and when he
drank it was rare, but it seems like when he
drank you ended up with stories like this, okay, and
even he would be one of the first ones to
admit that. So after a few beers or work right,
Sid couldn't help himself. He was more than happy to
talk down to the wrestlers in the company he'd left
behind for the WWF about how much greener the grass
was on the other side. You can just picture him, can't. Yeah,
who guys, look, I mean, you guys think you're a
big deal. I'm sorry, I mean, you got it. The
way they're doing things up there. You guys are basically
like in the minor leagues. And I hate to say it.
You know, he'll say these little things to make you
feel like he's not insulting you while insulting you For
ten minutes, all he's doing is insulting.
Speaker 3: That's Sid. Yeah.
Speaker 6: While the WWF was having its own problems at the time,
o'rourick writes, nobody could really argue that nineteen ninety one
had been a disaster thus far for Turner's ensemble. One
person who took exception was Mike Graham, who suggested that
Sid should shut his mouth instead of heating the request.
Sid kept up his obnoxious tirade and responded that he'd
drawn more money in the last week than Graham did
his entire career, which is true, by the way. Well,
with Graham being close to Brian and with things getting heated,
Pillman found himself involved. Brian's here perked when Sid began
his rantings, and he couldn't resist joining in once Vicious
mentioned drawing money. Given his less than stellar track record,
Sid was all too eager to extend his attention to Brian,
saying that the reason the WWF is where it is
and WCW is where it is is because they have
the correct, more belie avable approach of keeping the big
guys away from doing programs with the little guys. As
Sid always would let those thoughts fly about smaller wrestlers,
the flashbacks to their previous issues and Ixnate program. He'll
not forget. Sid, as we found out later, purposely dropped
Pilman on his head in the War Games. That's right,
so that's behind them at this point, not by much,
by several months only, and combined with the fact that
he had to listen to the same mentality for as
long as he could remember, he'd heard about enough Pillman,
that is, Sid then delivered a line that Pilman would
never make it in wrestling because not only was he
a pretty boy, but he didn't know how to work,
which was tantamount to Adolf Hitler preaching a quality to
Martin Luther King Junior. Pilman aggressively rose out of his
seat with fire in his eyes, ready to fight. Pilman
had no intention of backing down or letting the comment slide.
Just as it seemed the tour to come to blows,
it was Sid who declined, pulling up his shirt, travilla
band aid on his forearm, covering a scar from a
recent surgery for a torn bicep. Sid cited it as
his reason for not fighting. As Sid left the bar,
the guy's cool down somewhat. The tense situation seemingly diffused.
People had just about got their hands back in their
beers when Sid re entered, menacingly holding a squeegee. You
know what I think about, boss, Yeah, don't tell mom.
The babysitters dead, Suellen Crandall's getting the job at the
hot dog stand. And that creepy boss goes, oh, really
fun squeegee, Oh my god, And that's what he's got
his hand. Yeah, or's their work put to the plastic
windshield cleaning device in his hand as if it were
a deadly weapon, challenging both Pilman and Graham to bring
it on without much effort. Graham took the squeege away
from Sid as the other wrestlers held Pilman back. Vicious
then left the bar for good. Pilman and Graham, despite
staying away from Sid's weapon of mass destruction, managed to
come out of the entire incident's squeaky clean. Indeed, Pilman
left the encounter as a locker room hero for backing
down Sid, and the comedy value would be parodied for years.
Sid and the Squeegee Jesus, here's my Graham. I'm a
shoot interview with our video, telling the story in much
more colorful terms and perhaps taking some poetic license as well.
He's definitely one that would exaggerate or in cert certain
things to disrupt narratives, you know. He he's the kind
of guy that would say he had the wcw MGM
Disney deal on the on the rails before Eric Bischoff
stole the idea. He's from the Yeah, he's from the
Greg Ganya school, Okay, of anything that's ever worked in wrestling.
I had the idea first, So keep that in mind.
But he does tell the story in a very compelling way.
And as much as Pilman is involved in the Squeegye story,
because it you know, came to the word exchange that
we just heard, it really is a fight between Sid
and Mike Graham in a lot of ways, and let's
let's let's just turn it over to Mike Graham because
it's it's just fucking amazing.
Speaker 19: Came back from my own Montgomery, Alabama or something. We
just finished TV. Terry Allen and God bless Brian.
Speaker 29: Pillman was there and I was there, and they had
had a couple of drinks and it was kind of
nodding off a little bit, and Sid had just left
w and gone to WWF. So he's sitting over at
the bar. And went and seen him for I been
gone for a couple of months, and I just say,
he said, how are you? And he went back, sat down,
and Sid gets up, walks over, sits down and commenced
to telling us what a chicken shit company WCW is
and everybody that works there stupid, and ww.
Speaker 19: The place to be and just then and then, well,
we all still worked for WCW. We had pride in
what we were doing.
Speaker 29: I didn't want somebody telling me that we were doll masses,
or that the company sacked or anything else. So I
just said, Sid, why don't you go back over and
tell the girl that story at the bar.
Speaker 19: She'll believe it. I'm not going to he said, you might. Gran.
You're a loser. I've made more money in the last
two months than you'll make here all year. You spent
your life I've done this, I've done that. I leafed
across the table at him, stood up.
Speaker 29: I said, sid, you said, might be true, But I said,
this loser that hasn't made as much money as he
was just about to kick your ass. And he gets
up out of the chair and he stitches his interview
chin out. He could do a hell of an interview.
Speaker 19: I wasn't buying it.
Speaker 29: He wasn't cutting an interview on a wrestling fan. I
wasn't wrestling fan. And I said, I went around the table.
He dropped his arm and he said, well, if you
want to beat up a guy with one arm, go ahead.
Speaker 19: He said one arm.
Speaker 29: He said, shit, looks like you got two arms to me,
and they're three times the size of mine. You have it,
and he pulls his shirt sleeve up. He had a
little band aid, a little band aid on. I ripped
my bicep today.
Speaker 19: Oh, I said, get out of here, just go home. No,
don't come in here and insult this and then act
like Fred.
Speaker 3: Just go home.
Speaker 19: I helped him put his wind breaker on.
Speaker 11: It was going to go.
Speaker 19: I helped him put his wind breaker on. Everything. See
walks out the door. So I'm standing on my back
to the door.
Speaker 29: I'm trying to get Brian up and Terry to get
him to the room and all that kind of stuff
from behind me.
Speaker 19: Here, all right, Graham, I'm ready for you.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 19: It's gonna be an even fight. Now, I'm ready for you.
Speaker 29: I thought he was kidding. I turned around to look.
He's got a squeegee like you clean your wonder with
a squegee in his hand. I looked at him and went,
are you serious? He goes, yeah, he's in the breakdown,
like he's in a position where he's gonna move or
fight or something.
Speaker 19: I walked over to him.
Speaker 29: I snatched a squeege out of his hand and I
thumped him on the chest with it. I said, sid,
get out of here before I stick this up your ass.
And I handed it back to him and he took
it and put.
Speaker 19: His arms down. He walked around.
Speaker 29: I thought, Jesus, here's six eight three hundred pounds. If
he comes in with a tire, iron or something in
my back's turned, he could do some damage. I better
pay attention this next time. So I walked out into
the lobby to see what he was going to if
he was going to come back with something or what
he was doing, and he had moved his car up
to the front of the hotel, so he got I
guess and beat me up with a squege you.
Speaker 19: Make the big escape. When he saw me standing in
the lobby, starts going, I'm on the cake your ass
me and you ain't no good.
Speaker 29: I mean, like a uh temper tantrum that a junior
high school cheerleader would throw or something.
Speaker 19: So he gets on his scar and he drives off.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's a shit stirr and a pain in
the ass.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, can we not to me? You know,
can we not pretend to not know that it makes
total sense to me?
Speaker 6: What stands out to you about that story there from
Mike Grant, if anything, What stands out to you about
that narrative there from Mike Graham?
Speaker 3: Uh, honestly, it's the it's the torn bicep. And then
all of a sudden, you know, he's like he needs
to prove himself. You know, He's like, he's like, I
can't find I got a torn bop. All right, you're
a bit wait a.
Speaker 7: Minute, spam, you get back here right now.
Speaker 6: So he says, Graham, I mean it kind of I
never thought of it this way until I heard it.
But it's like the reason he grabs a squeegee is
because he's got a bad arm, and to him, one
good arm with a squegee, and it is more, you know,
tantamount to two working arms. I suppose. Well, when he
tells the story said that is it's a little more
anodyne than that, a little more kind of like, you know,
weak than that. I mean to hear Sid tell it
is we're about to hear from the shoot interview he
did with Hannibal, everyone at the bars trying to talk
him into coming back to WCW. And that's when he
started talking about how superior the WWF experience was. And
here's Sid giving us a little flavor of what happened from.
Speaker 11: There in WCW.
Speaker 24: Ryan, But there's a lot of stories out there about
the squeegee thing with you, and Brian told me was
that during your first or second run.
Speaker 11: As Actually, well, I was on the WWF.
Speaker 24: What it was, I tore my boss up that night
in Orlando, Florida, and I had left my car that
the hoe Jones and everybody's say that I'm sitting there
talking to him, and actually that night magdalum Ta, and
they were trying to taught me into coming back to
w c W, and I was just telling him how
great things were. Brian Pillmer started running his mouth and
I said, hey, fucking and I had a torn bicep.
Speaker 11: You know, no, I couldn't. I couldn't have fought if
I wanted to. And so I just remember getting out.
Speaker 24: My car was dead, the guy was giving me a boost,
and Pilm was out there, and it just so happened
he was in the four boarders of the pass receipt
and I grabbed and said, hey, motherfucker, you give me
a whacky in the fucking head of this.
Speaker 11: Of course he didn't, you know what I mean. So
so it's a kind of an exaggerated yes.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 24: The thing is this, if if Broon Pilman never had
any things, you know, if he really wanted to be
a tough guy when I beat him up that time
of war games, legitimately, the sitting him through that cage,
he had all the reason he.
Speaker 11: Could have fought right there, and he didn't want to fight.
Speaker 2: He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast.
Speaker 1: He's an lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnaco
and JP sorrow.
Speaker 6: So to Sid's way of telling it, he's in the
parking lot with the squegee and Pillman's getting in his face.
Of course, Graham tells the story of Sid re entering
the hotel wielding the squegee ready to go to war. Now,
those are two things that just don't mix, like someone's
right and someone's wrong.
Speaker 3: Here do we have the truth?
Speaker 6: They don't have the truth? Now, those are the two
stories we have, And of course we don't have Pilman
story because before there really was such a thing as
a shoot interview industry, he passed away. But you know,
it makes more sense to me that Sid would grab
the squeegee if he was being run up on in
the car. Yeah, and he just grabbed the nearest thing
he had then going to the going to the parking
lot and coming back with a squeegee, And maybe he
did both.
Speaker 3: Maybe he uh, he.
Speaker 6: Grabbed the squeegee in confronting Pim in the parking lot
and then ended up just saying, fuck, I'm gonna go
back in there with this thing. But you know, Sid
holding a squeegee, It's just you're not gonna hurt anybody
with that.
Speaker 3: I know, it's a fucking it's like the it's like
the worst weapon you could possibly grab, especially when you're
tall and like you're supposed to be menacing. And he does.
He does come across as someone who really, more often
than not, is gonna make himself look like an idiot exactly,
thank you. You know, when push comes to shove, he
really can't get across the toughness factor. He just looks
like a fool when.
Speaker 6: It comes right when it comes right down to it,
he's gonna make you kind of laugh in his face,
even if you don't intend to. And so we go
and and you know what, you know, it's another chapter
in that book is his face when they announced that
he will not get the WrestleMania eight WWF title shot. Yes,
describe it for the people, the face he makes when
they declare Hogan the Challenger or Savage the Challenge or
whatever it was.
Speaker 3: It's just like, you know, he well, first of all,
don't don't forget he stands up first, thinking he's the
number one contender. It's spectacular. Oh, it's spectacular. He stands up,
and then Hogan gets it, and he sits back down,
and he goes he tears up random pieces of paper.
Speaker 6: Yeah, like a like a child having a child. So
this is them accelerating. Oh, the last man standing, Yes,
because this is coming off the Rumble, of course, and
we'll get to that. Yeah, but I just I thought
of that right away when I thought of what, when
have I seen a face from Sid that's probably close
to the face he was making wielding that squeegee. And
it's this WrestleMania press conference angle we've talked about over
the years. You know all about it. It's a WrestleMania
eight episode is there for the taking in the archives.
But as we know, going into WrestleMania eight, there is
controversy because of the way the Rumble ninety two ended
Rick Flair, of course becoming WA champion after Hulk Hogan
pulls Sid out after Hogan had already been eliminated. It
falls to WWF president Jack Tunney to make a decision
as to who will get the championship shot at WrestleMania.
Everyone's thinking Hogan Flair. He declares it to be Hogan
right in that press conference. Yes, and it doesn't end
up being Hogan ultimately, and Sid gets so pissed that
he didn't get it. And this is where Sid turns
Heill Basically, this is the first time he does something Yeah, yeah,
because not so forget when he pulled Hogan out of
the rumble, he got pretty well cheered. It wasn't like
it was almost more of a heel turn for Hogan.
Speaker 3: Than I mean, honestly, all this stuff actually it's actually
all a bunch of babyface stuff that really happens to him.
I mean, even getting even getting screwed out of the
title shot is it's like you kind of feel for
Sid because Sid was the last guy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you kind of resent Hogan because he's been
there so many times and now he's getting advantaged again.
But in their mind, they always do this. Vince always
had a problem with this, where like he get to
a certain point where he'd assume that the babyface would
be cheered. He did this with Charlotte against Becky, remember,
and it was like, oh, okay, like here's another here's
another version of the formula where Hogan comes out the
baby face. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's
one too many times you just missed you, you're one
step behind.
Speaker 3: That's one too many times it's done a piss poor
job of it, pispor job, and you're going to get
Hogan over as the baby face. Everything else should have
happened like he should have been in the Sid position
absolutely the whole time. And we're about to talk about
this because Sid notices this. Vince may have been too
more clever than we think here, because Hogan, knowing that
Sid's gonna move in in his position, has a fucking fit.
According to Sid backstage after the Royal rumaldnineteen ninety two,
feeling like Vince actually engineered circumstances, knowing full well that
the way it ended up being executed, and that Hogan
couldn't see it coming until it was too late, that
Sid would come away the baby face and Hogan would
come away the whiny bitch. And instead of that being
like some fans not going with Vince and his his
direction and his intended reaction, Hogan actually thinks that Vince
knew full well what the fans would do and try
to get Hogan to go along with it, and Sid
is just, you know, this guy caught in the middle
who doesn't understand this sort of you know, three D
chest that's going on, and certainly never had to deal
with that WCW where people just showed up to collect
and go home. Oh yeah, this is like a brand
new way of playing the game to him, and he's
very inexperienced in this regard. So he's playing with the
big dogs here. But just to hear what Sid had
to say after that WrestleMania a press conference, it's rather
a legendary and it puts another thing that we always
talk about with Sid on the table. Well, he said, Justice,
you were obviously not or to say something.
Speaker 11: What happened at Ward Rumbles.
Speaker 3: It was simple, man, I was the last man standing.
I would be the world.
Speaker 13: Chapman if it wasn't for you, Hogan, pulling me out
from outside the ring.
Speaker 3: Now, what you did, Jack Tunny was bogus.
Speaker 30: Both bogus act you fair for pull off.
Speaker 3: I want to ask you what is it?
Speaker 13: Is it because I'm not a big movie stormed like
Hulk Cogan, the big and mortal one himself.
Speaker 31: Is it because Sid Justice is the newcomer?
Speaker 13: Well, I want to tell you something, Hulk Hogan, you
couldn't be ripped player on your best taste. But I
can't why because Sid Justice ools us the world?
Speaker 6: I think it's the first time he said rules the world.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 6: Certainly close to it because that's a heel line, and
he's now a heel or you know, in their mind
becoming a heel, even though, like you said, any fair
reading of the way that played out for Sid, he
is absolutely the victim.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: But it's like Brett in ninety seven, And that's interesting.
That's interesting because you know, that plays a huge role
in where Sid stands Brett's storyline in ninety seven. It's like,
even if you're justified, if you whine too much about
being screwed over, you are eventually going to be a
heel in the eyes of the fans. Like right, even
if you have a total solid case to make, if
you if you go to go too long complaining about it,
eventually the fans turn on your forward or dis you know,
have a certain degree disdain for you. So I think
that's what happens to Sid, even though as I mentioned,
there are people that are vociferously kind of with Sid
kicking Hogan's asset, wrestling the aid for the most part,
by the time they get to Who's Your Dome, it's
you know, eighty five percent pro Hogan, right, even if
you're coming out of the road.
Speaker 3: And they enough, you know, to make to make Sid
little the bad guy.
Speaker 6: Indeed, and I got a request and I'm going to
answer it from one of our patrons. As we get
to this point, we've had a lot of fun as
you just started mimicking it. You just started out with
pantomiming it with that promo over the years, the most
bogus thing you've ever pulled off. Yes, someone said, you know,
I expect a treatise on the etymology of the word bogus.
All right, so in Sid's voice, could you please read
this summation of what we know. And it's it's not
very much about where the word bogus comes from.
Speaker 3: The word bogus has a somewhat mysterious etymology, but it
appears to have originated in the early nineteenth century in
the United States. It originally referred to device used for counterfeiting.
Speaker 6: Also known as pro wrestling, such as make.
Speaker 3: A machine for making fake coins. Over time, the words
meaning broadened to or for anything that was fake, fraudulent,
or not genuine. Here's a more detailed look at the
potential origin. Number One early used counterfeit money around the
eighteen twenties eighteen thirties, bogus was used to describe a
machine for making counterfeit coins or the counterfeit coins themselves.
Number two folk origins. Some sources suggest that a bogus
might have derived from a slang word for a fake
device or contraption often used in criminal activities, though exact
origins remain speculative. Evolution of meaning as it spread, bogus
evolves describe anything that was false, dishonest, or unreliable. By
the late nineteenth century, its use had explained to refer
to anything considered fake or phony, not just currency. The
exact root of the word remains unclear, and there's no
widely agreed upon linguistic origin. No, it might have been
linked to the boom in counterfeit currency production during this time.
The meaning today still reflects its origins, describing something fake
or inauthentic.
Speaker 6: Wow, and certainly Jack Tunney's decision as it regards contendership
for the WIF.
Speaker 3: Title qualifies under that very inauthentic.
Speaker 6: And it's funny that he ends up at a crossroads
here with Rick Flair as WF CHAM For many reasons. One,
he leaves WCW in the dust and leaves Flair in
the dust, you know, after having that friction with him
and the Horseman over how much you know, we talked
about it last week, how much he was paid, and
perhaps some resentment there that Sid's read of why Flair
gave him somewhat of a cold shoulder as time went on.
And there is also the matter at WCW or Flair,
who you know, had a lot of sway in terms
of how things were booked and how things were framed.
He'd just been the head of the booking committee and
kind of voluntarily stepped down from that role but retained
a lot of sway backstage, would basically, according to Sid,
kind of give them a hard time. Ahead of Hollyween
Havoc nineteen, I debrief faced sting for the title in
the main event about saying on interviews that I'm going
to be the next world champion and referring to himself
repeatedly as the next world Champion. To Rick Flair's mind,
that's not something he should say as much as he
did if there wasn't indeed a plan to give him
the title, or if they wanted to keep it somewhat
of a surprise if they decided to give him this strap.
Sid's story is at Olie Anderson, who of course was
very much as confident and supporter in the front office
and loved Sid was telling him to go out and
say this, and Oi was the actual boss at that
point in time, and so he's going to stick with
what Oli says. Now, of course, Sid is just going
to stick with whatever. If two people tell him to
doude two different things, He's going to pick the one
that frames him strongest and side with that person. But
I mean, the tension goes all the way back to
that point and now here he is top dog right
above Flair and the WWF on the Big WrestleMania show,
and still the stature of Rick vs. V The championship
is a relevant consideration for him and how he's cutting promos.
It really is something. How he leaves WCW presumably leaving
that Rick Flair situation behind him, and Rick comes right
in the door behind him as well. It's so true,
really strange. So as far as Sid looks back on
Hollyween Havoc ninety, he said in a shoot interview once,
so I know that he was the one Flair that
went to the upper people and said Sid's not ready
for this. Yes, so he sees some sabotage. He really
came into Halloween Havock apparently expecting to win the championship,
and that's where he gets into that whole thing about
how Barry Wyndham showing up in the matches the faked
Sting was not run by him ahead of time. He
sort of frames it. I guess ultimately is something that
was done to get Sid in the ring thinking he's
going to win the title, and double cross him in
real time to where Sting can still leave the champion,
but Sid can go to the ring and not put
up a fucking fight about not winning. So I don't
know there's a lot of credulity required to believe that
version of events, but I do believe that Flair and
Sid had some crosswords or at least spoke behind each
other's backs about things. And I would not be surprised
at all if Flair was going to the realizing how
much Sid was making going to the height of his
powers to let people know that he didn't think should
be the world champion at that point in nineteen ninety.
But here we are in the WWF and their fates
are again intertwined. And as mentioned at the Royal Rumble
nineteen ninety two, Rick Flair and the great Greatest Rumble
ever wins the championship. We know the story, we know
what happens Albany, New York. CID eliminates Hogan, everybody goes,
oh my god, and then Hogan gets so pissed that
he pulls Sid out from the floor, and the crowd
of course boos vociferously at Hogan for doing this and
cheers wildly when CID eliminates Hogan. In subsequent releases of
the tape on Colisseum Video and replays on television and
on the network to this day, they sort of dub
over the crowd going crazy when Hogan gets eliminated and yeah,
boo wing Hogan. But anybody who watched the Rumble ninety
two live.
Speaker 3: Well, And also you can't deny the fact that, you know,
people jump out of their seats when Hogan gets eliminated.
Speaker 6: You can see it, right. Yeah, so that's absolutely true
as well. So Sid is now going to the back
here in Albany, and he's going to observe what's happening here.
And again this is a Sid who's already kind of
disillusioned because the plan of him working only TVs and
pay per views has fallen through the idea of him
sort of taking his time to marinate to become the
next guy when Hogan departs has now accelerated so much
with Warrior sudden departure that he's out there clearly, as
we heard him express in a deeply dissatisfying position of
posing next to Hulk Hogan at the end of SummerSlam,
like that's supposed to accomplish anything. He'd call me a poser,
and he tears his bicep and loses the chance to
be as you mentioned, the show closer at the Survivor
series in his first pay per view match, So he's
already kind of not sure about this whole thing. And
then Hogan, according to Sid and I just love to
picture this in my head, and we'll hear the clip
here from a shoot interview that he did. This is
the one with Sean Mooney completely flips his lid over
what happened with Sid out there in the Rumble ninety two.
Speaker 8: In that company. I was in the wrong place at
the wrong time, you know, I left a big guaranteed
contract to come into this place, and what the deal was.
I was going to do TVs and pay per views
for one year, and that's to WrestleMania. I was going
to be the world champ and I was going to
start my first house show. Well, he had the Fire
of the Warrior, a SummerSlam, and all that shit changed,
you know, So from the very beginning, things.
Speaker 11: Just didn't go right.
Speaker 8: So we were in already New York at Royal Rumble,
where I think Hogan pulled me out from the outside
or something, and they started. Right when we get back,
you know, Hogan is screaming and acting like a woman,
and I'll go hold on a minute. He's screaming at events.
Speaker 3: You set this up.
Speaker 8: You made this happen. I didn't even know Vince was
that bad of a person at the time, you know
that did things like that. I thought that was just
all hearsay because I didn't care. You know, I really
didn't care what they did. So I went to Vince's office,
I said, Vince, listen, man. I took my hand down.
I said, I'm gonna I'm gonna thank you for the opportunity,
but I'm gone. I cannot work in the place that
grown men act like women. And he said, no, no, no,
I'm not shaking your hand. That's what it's not going
to do you good. I'm leaving. He's doing well, you
just stay till WrestleMania. And I said, okay, I'll stay
till WrestleMania.
Speaker 11: And that's what I did.
Speaker 8: And I think I finished up a couple of days
after WrestleMania.
Speaker 6: And this is where they make that sharp right turn
where Whippleman comes in and suddenly Sid's attacking innocence on
all the television shows and going super strong heel and uh,
that's that's what he claims. He claims that he quit
WWF backstage. What a fucking nightmare of for Vince.
Speaker 3: I mean, what are you doing.
Speaker 6: Everyone loves this show. They think it's such a brilliantly
booked show. Backstage, Sids Quintin Hogan's Quintin. Fucking everything's falling apart,
and yeah, it starts to make sense. I mean, Sid,
just agree to stay through WrestleMania, because even though he
did work a couple of shows. After he fucking leaves,
he leaves, he finds a way out. Now there's this,
there's we've talked about this before, and we'll talk about
it again. There's a certain subtext to all this that
he never seems to mention. And Vince is cracking down
on drug testing. Yeah, I musten not even sure if
he was fifty pounds lighter, if he would have been
as big.
Speaker 3: Of a deal. Oh, I don't think so at all.
I don't think there would have been any I think
I think that that would have been I think it
would have been done easily. He's not gonna he's not
gonna main event anything. Yeah, if he's not his size, Like,
the size is what makes him special, and.
Speaker 6: I think he knew that better than anybody, as someone
that was so maniacally determined to keep that size up
by all indications, and you know, someone who like literally
disappeared after he broke his leg and wasn't able to
you know, continue on the regiment and didn't really emerge
again into the public eye until he had healed sufficient
to get his size up again. So all that said,
you got to consider that as part of what might
be animating sid looking for reasons to quit. Okay, I'm
just suggesting that that's a strong possibility, and the nature
of his ultimate departure in nineteen ninety two after rest eight,
I think adds a lot of credence to that theory.
So we'll get to more detail on that front. But
what happens here is is the way this all ends
up playing out for Sid leads to kind of like
this folklore, this urban legend that basically Sid was in
position to get Hulk Cogan spot in the company and
ended up being so sort of tone deaf to everything
that he instead insisted on becoming a heel that somehow
it was at Sid's insistence that he caused himself the
opportunity to be the next Hull Covid of the Baboo,
as he just you know, wanted to play from his
old bag of tricks as a heel. Here's here's an
example of that. This is Kevin Nash reacting to the
passing of Sid and has clicked this podcast with Sean Oliver,
you know, reflecting on some of the things that you
heard about Sid being in the business and he knew
Sid real well, and this is, uh, this is kind
of like what survived in terms of the version of
the story of what happened in this time period of
w W.
Speaker 8: He sent my church a case of beingna sausages, and
I sent him an autograph picture.
Speaker 6: Gotcha now here he is.
Speaker 3: I wasn't said one of the biggest names in He
was just fucking Sid.
Speaker 32: I mean one of the one of the stories that's
always surfaced is, you know, Vince calls Sit into the
office and Sid comes in and Vince says, you know,
I'm gonna give you Hogan's boots, like You're gonna basically
like Hogan's gonna give you his gimmick and you're You're
gonna He's gonna pass the torch to you, and said
he looked at Vince and said, well, yeah, that's great
and all, but what you need right now is a
big vicious heel. So in other words, like just like that,
we're gonna give you the Hogan spot.
Speaker 3: Nah.
Speaker 32: Thanks, but I think you need a big vicious heel.
Speaker 6: Amazing And he did the Sid accent too, Yeah, he did.
What you did right now is a big vicious heel.
Of course, I can definitely hear Sid saying what you
need right now? Yeah, oh, absolutely, yeah, because he's seeing
himself as a.
Speaker 3: What you need right now is you need a big
vicious heel. No, I could do. I could bring in
I could bring in some Viennas. You see what I'm saying.
I come in, I'll throw Vienna's and it's all over.
Disgusting Vienna what brother Vienna's Dude? What is that? What
are you?
Speaker 6: Huh? It's just amazing that Sid watches all this chaos
around him. The legend ends up being that Sid talked
himself out of hul Cogan's position. It's ridiculous and so well,
it's time to go heal. You know what time it is, boss?
This is where you enter the picture, right. Oh yeah,
Saturday Night's main event on NBC, one of the final
ones in NBC on Fox, Sorry Fox Fox building to
WrestleMania eight and they shoot the angle. Sid's teaming with
Hogan against two again Undertaker and Rick Flair. You can't
miss it. It's in the archives for your review. We've
talked about it before, but we're gonna revisit it here.
Sid betrays the Hawkster.
Speaker 20: Good Richie for the time you listen. Oh, no, Justice,
what's he doing? Trust does Purgans holding?
Speaker 3: Can't tell you?
Speaker 7: This is a sen He's taking her.
Speaker 2: He he's had enough for help hugging.
Speaker 7: He's had enough for beefcake.
Speaker 2: He's taking a hot.
Speaker 4: Put us beefcake spinning. Ah, wait a minute, help him,
don't need any please, this will be like a hockey game.
He'll be a face off if he touches beefcake. I guarantee,
says help himself. But you hear what Justice said. He
wants talking to help himself, joining.
Speaker 12: Me now, said Justice, there must be some reason for
your suctions.
Speaker 2: You turned your.
Speaker 30: Back on your friend, Holt Coke shut up first.
Speaker 3: It's easy.
Speaker 13: I do turn my back on my friends because I
do need any friends, and for furthermore, for friends like
Cold Cogan, I need no enemies.
Speaker 2: Now, I cannot still believe the words that.
Speaker 13: Jack Tunny spit out his mouth and named Hulk Cogan
the number one contender to face Rick Flair for the
championship at WrestleMania.
Speaker 11: Because it's simple.
Speaker 13: All you have to do is open your eyes and
you will see the man is standing here as the
number one contender. Now, Jack Turney, you've alreadys showed favoritism,
always showed favorite tasm tow.
Speaker 3: Him in case that big movie store.
Speaker 11: Maybe I'm not.
Speaker 3: I said it once and I'll say it again. Hulk Cogan.
You couldn't beat Rick Flair on your best day.
Speaker 30: As you can't make me oh my worst for Clive
the Madden the rules in the world, and I believed him.
Speaker 3: Take us back.
Speaker 6: How are you reacting?
Speaker 3: Oh god, I was. I mean, you know, first of all,
I was mortified because all I wanted was to see
a whole Cogan, you know, whule Cogan win a match
clean on TV live or in my mind live. That's
all I wanted. And I was so excited and then
Sid pulls this shit. Oh god, I can remember how
nervous I was when when when Sid wasn't looking for
the tag oh.
Speaker 6: Dropped right off the apron and Hogan's desperate crawl.
Speaker 3: It was so it was just.
Speaker 6: It was brutal to me, and he did it so nonchalantly.
But then to have such venom on the promo afterwards. Yeah,
these are the guys you're looking into that formed your
lifelong impressions of Sid. Exactly the first thing you said
when we started doing the tribute show that came from
the promo. We just heard in the angle, we just
heard yep, exactly all that massive and it was, uh,
you know, this match was featured in the Battle of
the Titans. Yeah, this is the time for in the
April ninety two issue of W magazine. Now that Sid's
a heel, let's see how the framing has shifted. In
the in house publication, there we go.
Speaker 3: Sid Justice promised everyone that he would be the Hulkster's
truest friend hours before they were scheduled to meet w
Champion Rick Flair and the Undertaker on Saturday Night's main
event last month. Sid broke his promise and showed his
true colors when he abandoned the Hulkster in his time
of need. It was clear even before they entered the
Saturday Night's main event ring that all was not well
between Justice and hulk As soon as the bell rang,
they argued as to whom as to whether which of
them would start the match. The Hulkster reluctantly stepped to
the apron and watched his partner lock up with Flair.
Justice quickly established his dominance. He reversed an Irish whip
and slung Flair into the turnbuckle before leveling him with
a back body drop on a hip. Stunned, Flair sought
refuge on the arena floor after he caught his breath.
Flair re entered the ring just then Justice tagged the Hulkster,
who was out to demolish Flair. Hogan went on a tear.
He booted Flair in the stomach and hammered him with
the same tactics that Justice had used moments earlier. The
Undertaker rushed to his partner's age It aid it was
a mistake. Hogan greeted the Hogan greeted the Pale Destroyer.
Oh my god, p is capitalized as his d Is
it really the Pale Destroyer? Yes? With punches and a
hip toss. Holk then grabbed the Undertaker and rammed his
head into Justice's boot. Justice tagged into the match and
staggered the Undertaker with a body slam before ramming his
head into the Halkster's boot in the corner. At that point,
Justice and Hogan were working together like a well oiled machine.
Hulk kept up the momentum by double clotheslining his opponents
from there, sid In the Hulkster merged their talents and
cleared Flair and the Undertaker from the ring with precision
double teeming. The crowd erupted into cheers Hogan, who shares
a tight bond with his millions of holkam Amiacs reveled
in their adulation. Justice looked at Hogan with envy. O
my god. He shook his head and snorted snorted, what
we don't know.
Speaker 6: I know, I remember seeing this, but okay, whatever you say.
Speaker 3: Seconds later, the complexion of the match changed. Separated by
the referee, Hogan and Flair jawed at one another on
the apron. The Undertaker entered the ring and blasted Justice,
whose guard was down. The Undertaker tagged Flair, and together
the two athletes worked over the big man from Arkansas
with chops, chokes, and punches to the ear.
Speaker 6: Okay, strangely, specific.
Speaker 3: Amazingly, Sid absorbed these blows and rebounded. He grabbed Flair
and the Undertaker and rammed their skulls together, dazing them.
Justice tagged a fired up Hulkster, who stormed the ring
and tattooed Flair in the Undertaker with tremendous blows tattooed.
Even the Undertaker's manager, Paul BarreR, was tagged when he
stepped too close to the action. Yes. However, while Holkomania
was running wild, Flair was clearing the cobwebs and planning
his next move. He crept up on Hogan's blind side
and dropped him with a boot to the lower hamstring
like a wolf. Flair dug into the tender spot and
ensnared brother. Won't my spot, dude, my spouse word tender, dude,
that's quite tender, and ensnared Hogan in a painful figure
for leg lock. Flair increased the pressure and rocked on
the mat to ensure that every ligament in the Hulkster's
leg would be twisted. Writhing in pain, Hulk inched his
way across the ring and reached up for an important tag.
He was reaching for air with contempt in his beady eyes.
Sid turned down, looked down at Hogan and turned his back.
Seeing this flare on, the Undertaker opened up on the Hulkster.
They choked him and pummeled him into the mat. Hogan
tried to rebound with slams, but every time he went
to his corner, Justice wouldn't extend his hand. He ignored
Hogan's plea for help. Finally, Justice wiped his hands of
Hulk Hogan. He stepped out the apron just before Hogan
reached for another crucial tag and walked off Brutus the barber. Beefcake,
who was at ringside during the match, ran down the
aisle and confronted Sid b if Keke told Justice to
return to action. However, Justice didn't want any of Hogan
or his best friend Beefcake. He looked at the ring,
arched his eyebrows, and then spit in Brutus's face. Wow. Meanwhile,
Hogan was still taking a beating. Flair and the Undertaker
choked and kicked the Hulkster at will. When the referee
attempted to stop them, Flair threw him to the canvas,
which eventually earned the team at disqualification. Beefcake, still recovering
from facial injuries, still recovering. I mean, come on, it's
been almost two years where you're recovering from. I couldn't
take any more. He ran into the ring and challenged
Flair and the Undertaker. Sensing they might permanently injure somebody,
Flair and his partner turned their attention to Beefcake. However,
this was what Hogan needed. He rose to his feet
and came to his friend's aid. He battered the Undertaker
and Flair as if there were no tomorrow, and deposited
them on the arena floor, where they chose to stay
after the bell. Hogan was of it. He promised everybody
that justice will be served for Sid's actions when they
meet at WrestleMania eight. And that's the Battle of the Titans.
And you read this with horror, I'd imagine, Well, by
this point I kind of knew that it was, you know,
what was going down. I see, you know. It wasn't
really a surprise, but what was I was very excited
just to be able to read about Hulk Hogan and
the magazine like.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 3: This was only my second magazine that I purchased, and
I'd never read about a Hulk Hogan match in the magazine.
So I was very excited about that.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, So the memories that pour forward in the way
that Sid is portrayed there, what a piece of shit, right?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah? The cover too, By the way, he has Flair, Savage, Hogan,
and Sid, all four of them on the cover.
Speaker 6: Is that that famous cover with Flair with a belt
in the foreground.
Speaker 3: No, that's the March issue equally as important. Actually, there
is a piece in there, actually a very brief piece,
because because what they do is they they interview in
the interview section, they interview a number of superstars. It's Hogan,
It's Flair, Savage, Piper, Undertaker, and Sid And here's what
Sid so he's asked, said Justice, you've said you think
this is also before he before he turned on Hogan.
This is pre turn, said Justice. You said you've earned
you think you deserve a shot of the title. Does
the fact that you don't have a chance to get
it in to get it in any way? Said Justice.
You said you think you deserve a shot at the title.
Does the fact that you don't have a chance to
get it in any way diminish your enthusiasm for WrestleMania eight?
No way, man, I'm gonna crack that head of somebody
big at WrestleMania eight. You wait and see. I'm gonna
do something that will make people look more than twice
at Sid Justice. You can believe it when I say
that I'm no longer is this farm board from Arkansas
gonna take a back seat to anybody watch out for
Sid Justice.
Speaker 1: Damn it's a la fan wrestling podcasts fan wrestling podcast
with Jack and Jpro.
Speaker 6: That's a hell turn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's they're planting the seeds
there for sure.
Speaker 6: And so if you need to really accentuate this change
in personality and really need to you know, deliver more,
you know, obnoxious promos or longer form promos, if you
need someone to play off of, you know, perhaps it's
time to uh no boy, to cash in in an
old favor. Perhaps it's time to call in an old friend.
You recall when Sid left Memphis and Continental for WCW
in eighty nine, there was kind of a thing between
him and Downtown Bruno is manager in Continental as Lord
Humongus that you know, when I make it, that phone's
going to ring again when I need you and a
friend to the end in a lot of ways. Indeed,
and perhaps in less ways than Downtown Bruno would have
hoped for, was Sid. We turn now to wrestling with
the Truth Brunel Lauer's book and his recollection of how
now that Sid's a heel, that phone's ringing? We need
Harvey Whippleman take it away.
Speaker 3: One day in July nineteen ninety one, as I sat
in the box office in Jasper, Indiana, the telephone ring
that wasn't unusual. There was there were always a lot
of calls to the box office on the day of
the Showphis fans who had questions about ticket prices, the lineup,
the bell time, et cetera. I was used to answering
those questions. This phone call, however, was one that I
didn't expect. It was Sabrina Udi, Sid's wife calling me
from Atlanta. I was shocked because, due to the fact
that we were no longer living in the same general area,
we were busy with our personal schedules. We hadn't remained
in very close contact. We would send birthday and Christmas cards,
but that was about it. I'd like to get a
fucking a birthday card from Harvey Whippleman.
Speaker 6: Not what I wouldn't kill to see what it looked like.
This is the Memphis box office. He's working for USWA
and Jerry Longer.
Speaker 3: At the time, Sid and his family had moved from
the Greater Memphis area to Atlanta, where he went to
work for WCW. I was curious to know how Sabrina
managed to track me down in Jasper, Indiana. The lady
really did her homework. She had called Buddy Wayne, a
longtime USWA promoter and friend, and asked him if he
knew how to reach me. He told me that I
was living in a shed behind Lawler's house and gave
her Lawler's number. She then called Lawler, who confirmed that
I was staying in his quote guest quarters, that I
had been on the road since Tuesday morning and he
didn't know when I'd be back. He told Sabrina that
I would definitely be back for TV on Saturday, and
added that the fact that Jasper was running him that
night Thursday, and that she could probably get the number
of the arena from the operator. When she finally heard
my voice on the phone, she seemed to be relieved.
Her first question was to ask what I had on
my schedule for three weeks from that day. I told
her that it never varied much. Monday, Memphis, Tuesday's Louisville, Wednesday, Evansville.
Thursday and Friday were spots shows that could have been
from anywhere in a six state radius. Saturday morning was
Memphis TV, Saturday was Nashville or Jonesboro. Sunday was my
only day off. She told me the reason she called
was that Sid had asked her to track me down
to see if you would be interest if I would
be interested in making a move to another territory.
Speaker 6: Imagine that putting your wife on the on the task
of finding hard may.
Speaker 3: You get your ass out of bed? Wow? And you
get on the fucking horn and you find Bruno.
Speaker 6: I am fascinating around by Sabrina's role here.
Speaker 3: Fascinated Yep. No, I'm not messing around. I'm not joking. Right.
You see what I have to do with Frank. Frank's
a piece of shit. Wow. Now, don't you disappoint me, Sabrina.
I'm looking at you in your eyes, and I see
the fear. I see the fear you have for Sid,
and I want you to know something. That fear is
justified because you will not know what it is said
I will do to you if you don't find Bruno.
Find him. Wow. Yes, I I had never had any
desire to leave Memphis and live in Atlanta, where WW
was based. I had just bought some land and I
wanted to develop and live on it, much like what
do you want to develop talent as well to develop.
When I explained that's to Sabrina, she said, no, Sid
is no longer with w CW. He's about to start
with the WWE. He heard through the grapevine that they
wanted to hire a new manager. So he arranged for
you to get a tryout in Worcester, Massachusetts. If you're interested,
you need to be there in three weeks. Was I interested?
Holy cow, was I ever interested? Just when I thought
I would. He's setting up rings and selling tickets for
Eddie Marlin until the day of my death. I was
looking for the opportunity of a lifetime. I thank Suprena
and told her I would call sit at his home
in Atlanta on Sunday. I wasn't yet ready for lawler
Jerry Jarrett or Eddie Marlin to know, just in case
things didn't work out. So on Sunday I called Sid
from Buddy Wayne's house. Sid confirmed that he had a
tryout date set for me in Worcester. Pronounced Worcester, Yeah, yeah,
to be clear, Yeah, because you know most people would
say Worcester, but.
Speaker 6: Now we need to know what to pronounce Worcester when
we read the book for some reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, but he stressed that it was only a tryout,
nothing was guaranteed. I had to impress Vincickman, Pat Patterson
and JJ Dillon or I would return to setting up
rings in places like evening shade, Arkansas for the rest
of my life. Sid wanted me to drive to Atlanta
about three days before my shop and fly with him
to New England. I was just a Southern redneck who
was it used to a big territory like the WWE,
and he wanted to be with me so I wouldn't
feel awkward or nervous. After I assured said that I
would be there at the appointed time, I thanked him
and hung up. And you better be there at that
time that I gave you. If you're not there, Bruno,
there's no telling what I'll do to you.
Speaker 6: Yes, God, there's no telling what I'll do to you.
Fuck the hell.
Speaker 3: You've heard me in the night. You've heard me taking
my knife. I'm shaating it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's not forget his lasting impression of being on
the road with Sid.
Speaker 3: Alright, you know what I'm capable of, you know, damn well.
I'm not afraid to let my knife enter another human
body that I'm not afraid to shed the blood of
humanity on my white sheets. M Bruno, I will kill you.
Speaker 6: Oh my god. That's a direct, direct threat of murder.
That is an absolute crime by any any read of
the situation. Because he's so done trying to talk around it.
It just goes brutal. I will kill you.
Speaker 3: I will kill you. I will slit your throat if
you're not where I say you need to be on
the exact date, at the exact time, in the exact place.
Do you understand me? Right? Yeah, that's a good one.
That's good.
Speaker 6: Well, I like to come on all ye JP's Whippleman lapsed,
Tarvy lapsed, Tarvin's.
Speaker 3: Harvin's Whippleman. Oh yeah, I for I assured Sid that
I would be there at the appointed time. I thanked
him and hung up. I knew at that point that
if I could impress the people in the WWE, there
was a genuine chance that I would actually get a
starting date and a spot on the talent roster. I
had paid my dues, and I had learned a lot
during my twelve years of pounding the asphalt. I think
it's kind of the pavement and asphalt doesn't really pounding
the asphalt. I was finally being given the opportunity to
do something big, and I was determined that I wouldn't
mess up the opportunity. It's all like an offer, you pal,
That's right, It was an opportunity offer here pal exactly.
I knew I was a good manager, and I was
finally getting a chance to prove it. I thought it
was rather ironic that in twelve years of managing all
over the country, I never got a call from New York.
But after six or seven weeks of setting up the
ring and selling tickets, here comes the call. I left
French Lick and drove straight to Birmingham, Alabama. Arrived around
six o'clock in the morning. I checked into the same
hotel where Sid and I had stayed several years earlier.
I was so exhausted from the same one, the same one.
I didn't catch that that's hilarious. I was so exhausted
from the trip that it didn't matter where I was.
I just wanted to bed, to lie down on I
slept almost until noon, and after breakfast, I got on
I twenty east and headed for Atlanta. As as I drove,
I could say, I said a few prayers. I felt
I needed all the help I could get both with
Sid in my New England, Both with Sid and in
my New England trial. You know, I figured I think
of Harvey Whippelman, or you know Bruno as a guy
who it doesn't matter how many times he showers a day,
he still smells just wretched totally, you know, just can't
help it. He's just got he's got, you know, his
natural sense disgusting body odor. Like he could you know,
he could shower three times and he still smells like horseship.
Speaker 15: Or you know.
Speaker 3: He also he also still smells like he shop his pants.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: Look, I'm not saying anything to counteract it.
Speaker 3: So he take take from that, like you know, he
just got that that set like like like as if
he he he took a ship and just didn't wipe
well enough, and so there's.
Speaker 6: Just like especially when he sweats in his ass.
Speaker 3: Crack, yeah, exactly, and the hair is just like soak in.
Speaker 6: The soak is not the word. I'm serious, man, I can't.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I felt I needed all the help
I could get, both with Sid and in my knowing.
As I approached Hot Lanta, as Michael Hayes would call it, Okay,
I stopped at a rest area tot call Sid's house.
I had never been to Atlanta, so I had no
idea of how to get there. A sure, a short
while after getting directions, can you imagine the direction that
Sid gave him. You just keep driving. You've gone too far.
If you drop too far, you'll know it. Oh my god,
how would I know it? You'll know? Okay, short whiles
were getting director, I pulled up in front of his
rental house and went inside. Sid was preparing to move
back to the Memphis area, which was one of the
greatest benefits of working for the WWE. They allowed you
to live where you wanted to live, not like WCW,
who demanded that you live in the company town. Sid
in Sabrina took me to the Lenox Square mall in
the Buckhead area of Atlanta and bought me a couple
of nice outfits. They didn't want me to walk into
the ww headquarters wearing my early nineteen eighties clothing. Sid
also took me to the New York Suit Exchange, a
high end haberd Habit hashery for businessmen, and bought me
a sear sucker suit that he wanted me to wear
during my tryout. He had the tailor hammet up so
it appeared to be about two sizes too small for me.
Since my debut was within a couple of months of
the Peewee Herman masturbation incident. SID made sure that my
bowt tie and shoes were similar to those worn by
p Yes, I do, I do, because it was like
that was like the the you know, I remember that
being a big deal because I was a big Peewee fan,
you know, watching watching the show as a kid.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so it was just kind of like, oh, man,
Like now he's a fucking punchline, right.
Speaker 3: He's still like he's a he's a fucking degenerate too.
Oh my god.
Speaker 6: Well they're fucking are so sick of losing him to
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: But I never thought of Harvey whippleman is. But it
makes sense now that he says that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does, I mean because they do wear different outfits.
But the I can see that the shoes and they
and the bow tie totally being like that and some
SID paid for everything with the with the agreement that
I would pay him back in full when hope they
get hired by the w WE. If you don't get
him paid, if you don't get hired, I will kill you.
Speaker 6: Right, that's the opposite, that's the alternative.
Speaker 3: Because I'm not paying for your ship is a fucking
loan Wow, and then you're gonna loan me your life permanent.
Speaker 6: Take that seer? Sucker?
Speaker 3: Who's the sucker?
Speaker 9: Now?
Speaker 3: When the morning of our trip to New England ride
we got up early, ate breakfast? I get it, I
get it. But you ate breakfast every fucking morning. Okay,
every fucking story is him talking about breakfast. Jesus Christ.
Dude even said it. Now, you know the motelities about
getting breakfast driving Atlanta?
Speaker 6: Get it, dude, You eat breakfast every day? That was brilliant,
you know, So do I.
Speaker 3: Here be going on about it? Fucking I'm fucking you know, talking,
you know, writing it down somewhere and saying, hey, I
wouldn't hear me talking about it?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I guess what. I ate breakfast again this morning, keeping
that record alive. Every day so far forty three years,
and every day I capt fucking breakfast. I went to
the Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport. I don't need the whole
fucking name either, I get it.
Speaker 6: You went to the airport wrestlers and their fucking landmarks.
Speaker 7: I know.
Speaker 3: Our flight was uneventful and we landed as scheduled in Boston,
which from which we made the short drive to Wooster.
I mean, I guess, I guess for them it would
be like short. I'm say it's not short.
Speaker 6: Don't feel short to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like it's like it's like forty
five minutes. Some of that could be longer. Yeah, I
think it's like forty five minutes to an hour, isn't it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know you hit rush hour two hours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. If you're walking, it takes like, well, yeah exactly.
Speaker 6: He's not considering how long it takes to walk from
the airport to the satellite city.
Speaker 3: Whale and Mercy, You're walking everywhere with your long strides.
Speaker 6: Whaling Mercy sounds like a Boston law firm. W h
e l A Whaling Mercy and the associates, Billy Whalen.
How would high school Billy.
Speaker 3: Billy wayama. When we arrived at the Worcester Centrum Center,
the arena, I saw wrestlers everywhere. I was happy to
see some of the guys that I hadn't seen in years.
That's crazy, the guys that I hadn't seen. Okay, it's
crazy that he saw wrestlers everywhere at the wrestling show,
and it's fucking blowing my mind. I can't believe us
all wrestlers right as they came around, guys I'd seen before,
such as the Bushwhackers, tug Boat, Fred Otman, Jimmy Hart,
Jimmy Snook, and Marty Jeannetti. I guess ye he was.
The familiarity with those guys helped ease the tension I
felt at being in a new environment. I was so
pleased to meet a lot of guys whose paths I
had never crossed. One of the first WW executives I
met that day was Pat Patterson. I've spoken to Pat
many times over the years as I tried to work
my way into the company, but that was the first
time we had actually met in person. Pat was very
friendly and easy going, and he made me feel right
at home. Pat was and is a great guy, and
to this day we share a great friendship. He is
also a tremendous businessman who has a real gift for
understanding the psychology of our business. So how does that
make him a tremendous businessman if he has a real
gift for understanding the psychology of our business? He's a
fucking horrible writer. His sentences structure is awful. He's in
the same words, multiple times in the same sentence, it's awful.
As the day went along, I met many other executives, executives, bosses,
and agents. Hogan, however, walked right over to me and
extended his hand. To my surprise, he said, Hey, Downtown Bruno,
I'll watched you give the King hell in Memphis for
a long time. I guess it's my turn now.
Speaker 21: Huh.
Speaker 3: That simple comment made me feel like a million dollars.
Here was the number one guy in the in the
entire wrestling business, and not only did he know who
I was, but he took the time to make me
feel well come in his world. Hogan won. Hogan was
and is a true class act, and he will always
have my respect and admiration. When Beefcake saw Hogan speak
to me, he suddenly managed to find the time to
shake my hand. Jesus Christ, what a transparent, self absorbed asshole, Beefcake.
Nobody ever respected you, and nobody ever will.
Speaker 6: Downtown Bruno's book, I.
Speaker 3: Hope you realize that you can only get you can
go only you can only get so far by riding
somebody else's coattail, and sooner or later you have to
make your own way. You know it's saying you like,
he's not even talking about him. He's like directly attacking
him totally. You never did and you never will. Finally,
about six o'clock in the evening, I was brought to
brought in to meet the quote Emperor. I was petrified,
but I soon but I found out in short order
that there was no reason at all to feel that way.
Vince seemed genuinely happy to see me. Unlike a marginally
successful dog turd like beefcake shit, a truly successful individual
like Vince doesn't put on airs. Vince was genuine and
real man, that's what you thought. That was my first
impression of him, and today, eighteen years later, I have
the exact same impression of him. Vince was and is
a great guy. He really made me feel as though
I was doing him a favor by being there. He
thanked me for coming to Worcester and probably told me
that what he wanted to see in my tryout to
sum it up. He loved my deep, rough, semi redneck
Mississippi accent. He wanted me to be the toughest, meanest
little bastard on the face of the earth. He wanted
me to act like I was ten feet tall and bulletproof.
In Worcester, I had been introduced to as Downtown Bruno,
but on the following night in Portland, Vince told Jean
to come up with a different name. He wanted something
catchy and unusual. Bruno is my real name, and I
had been Downtown Bruno for most of my career, but
I was willing to be called anything if it got
me a starting date. When Gene announced me as Harvey Herman, Yes,
Harvey Herman, Harvey Herman, I went right, Oh, skip ahead,
Oh well, I wanted to know. Later that evening they
had to make some adjustments of cameras and lights, so
there was going to be a ten minute gap of
dead air time. I was told they would normally throw
a dark match into the ring to keep the audience
from getting restless. They actually had two jobbers standing at
the gorilla position ready to go into the ring to
kill time, and Vince said, no, no, send Harvey out there,
do a little ad libbing, hit the ring, take the
microphone away from Howard Friinkle, let him see how let's
see how much heat you can get. We'll cue you
when it's time to come back. As I was about
to walk through the curtain. Vince, stop me, Harvey have
a last name, he asked aloud to nobody in particular Herman.
Herman replied, Carla montsou No, no, no, that's too closely
to pee wee Herman. What else can we come up with?
How about Winny Winnie? Winny? Oh Whipple? Sorry it looked
like Winnie. I had to scroll down. How about Whinny Whipple,
asked Gene Oakland, said Vince, and the newly born Harvey
Whipple went out to cut a promo. When I asked
Pat who I would be managing, he told me that
I would be with a guy named big Bully Busick.
Whippleman came from a misstatement by Gene Oakland, and the
name stuck. My new charge to manage was the Warlord
Terry Sapinski, who up to that time had been managed
by Slick.
Speaker 6: Now quickly on Busick. You remember him, of course, right, yeah, yeah,
short lived run. He was a friend of SIDS and
a workout partner of SIDS and somebody else that Sid
got into the company. But that kind of fell apart.
Abusic kind of drinking problem, first of all, and he
blew it when he was sent to the ring to
do his usual thing where he would go up to
the kid, the planted kid in the audience and pop
their balloon with his cigar.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: But he went to the rink one night on a
television taping and totally forgot to do that. And that
was the end of Big Bully Busic in the world.
Speaker 3: That's all it took.
Speaker 6: It's now brunos without a charge.
Speaker 3: Yes he is umm oh to my delight, I moved
up to the next level, as they say, on January
twenty second, nineteen ninety two, at the TV in Lubbock,
Texas lo and behold the new top heel in the WWE.
Justice as SID was called at that time, had successfully
lobbied Vince to let me be as manager. For all
intents and purposes, I was as high up the food
chain as a heel manager could get. I went out
on the road every day, and I was finally making
quote road money. Unfortunately, everything didn't work out as well
as it should have. Sid and I were not in
the same type of situation as we had been years
before in the CWF, and our friendship suffered a lot
due to that. It wasn't as an easy time for
me at all. The money was great and the spotlight
was hot, but the stress was almost unbearable. Let's go.
Sid and I have always been close, and today, as
I write this, we are closer than ever. But during
the period in which I managed him, we really fell apart. Ultimately,
our friendship came to an end for more than two years.
It was sad. Sid was on top of the world,
and he gets all the credit for pulling me right
up beside him. But it was an ugly situation because
for some reason Sid was in a very angry mood
food for his entire push, and I had to bear
the brunt of his rage.
Speaker 6: Can imagine what would cause him to be in such
a bad mood as WWF crackdown.
Speaker 3: On certain substances. It wasn't easy and it wasn't worth it.
No matter what I was being paid. Sid literally put
me through hell. He would make me get up at
six o'clock in the morning to go to the gym
with him, where I would sit and sit and sit.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have minded so much if Sid didn't constantly
tell me how I embarrassed him with my way of dressing,
my accent, my way of conducting myself, et cetera. Big
Sid cut me down for everything I did at the ring,
everything I said in the dressing room, and every time
I sneezed. It was like the old CWF days, magnified
by fifty. He was really rough on me. On the
other hand, Sid was rough on himself. He got angrier
and angrier with every day that went by. It was
as if he was mad at the world. I didn't
understand it. He was getting the push of his life.
They were grooming him to be Hulk Hogan's opponent in
the main event WrestleMania eight. He was making tremendous money,
and yet for some inexplicable reason, he wasn't happy. Imagine
and if you're part of Sid's life, when Sid is
not happy, nobody's happy.
Speaker 6: Let's fucking get it all right. Let's speak that truth.
Let's speak that truth.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 6: Harvey Whippleman, Harvin's is here.
Speaker 3: We know who that is, and we know who this is.
Speaker 8: Harvey Whippleman.
Speaker 3: Know that man at a man, not wrong, not bad.
Speaker 6: That justice rules the world, and he love you, idiot.
Speaker 3: Not a war.
Speaker 8: He is a big man.
Speaker 13: McManus.
Speaker 11: You're gonna let a hordle hoop it up if you would, hey, if.
Speaker 7: You loize, If he's quiet a second, I'll have.
Speaker 3: Something to say, don't say it and they are Hello, Yes,
there's a little such crater sec letter the other day.
What oh did this the other day? And it really
breaks my heart's sad.
Speaker 7: I've been a hole, Tonio said.
Speaker 8: Todd goes on to win.
Speaker 3: Me and my friends.
Speaker 2: They want to know, wa.
Speaker 3: I turned my back on a hole Kking.
Speaker 7: Anyone understands he because they're stupid too.
Speaker 3: How can you destroy food?
Speaker 7: Is the barber beefcake? And destroy the barber shot when
you know you were going to hit him in the
States and the States was already hurt.
Speaker 8: As the the chid themis a t D.
Speaker 6: And as you can't be a friend.
Speaker 13: To the Holster, you can't read my friend either. We'll
see as well.
Speaker 7: Simple if you're a friend of whole co again, you're
no friend of mine.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this guy has any friends at all.
Stick around it's a la fan wrestling podcast.
Speaker 1: He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnio
and Jo.
Speaker 6: I mean, we can't let this go and remark that
music oh music's fantastic. What's great about it.
Speaker 3: It's got a driving beat, you know, it's very heavy.
It's awesome.
Speaker 6: It's like one of the best themes they've ever done. Yeah, certainly,
certainly of that era too, without a doubt. We'll play
it when he comes out of wrestling in the eight
Holy shit. Oh yeah, it's like here comes fucking an
android from the from the nether world here and he's
stomping and he's gonna kill somebody. Yep, you heard the
references to the British Beefcake segment. You know, certainly Sid
with no lack of unflattering words, much like a Bruno
and the book there for Beefcake and it's a shoot.
Interviews definitely saw a Beefcakes just a shit stir and
someone who had his nose up Hogan's ass. We'll turn
a Beefcakes book quickly to talk about that moment. Another
fucking classic Sid thing where he ends up with the
shaving cream all over his face like a moron. You know,
he somehow ends up looking like a fool from when
he's trying to be at his most intimidating. The final
barbershop segment took place. Yeah, Let's not forget by the way,
Sid tearing apart the barber shop is because they were
done with the segment yep, and at the end didn't
have a problem destroying the set. The final barbershop segment
took place in February nineteen ninety two. The newly turned
Heels said Justice attacked me and destroyed the set, building
heat for his feud with Hulcog and Sid was horribly
embarrassing on that last barber shop. So this is a
mutual feelings here between. I was supposed to cower away
from him, and he went nuts. The producer said, don't
challenge him. We want him to look like a monster.
The thing about it was he was looking like a
monster at my expense. Yeah, because you don't have an expense, Burtist, right, exactly.
No one gives a fun I mean, listen, your expense
is your face. Burtist thinks he's gonna get over. No,
in this case, I wasn't just helping to get him
over for his upcoming match with Hulkstra. I was pretty
much just jobbing out. Believe me, if I could have
changed something, I would I would have. If I had
tried to look good, I would have lost my job.
Maybe I should have. My contract was up anyhow, And
the whole point to destroying the set was because they
knew I was off to do a movie soon. This
is how they wrote me off of television. That must
have been.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, quote unquote movie it's Thundering Paradise, right, No,
it's it's.
Speaker 7: That.
Speaker 6: That's not mister Nanny. He's in that movie is the Zodiac.
Speaker 3: He's the Zodiac before he's the Zodiac. But like I mean,
I mean, I guess because Hogan's in the movie, you're
gonna be gone and you're going to be his stunt
pitch and whatever. But like, you're not really in the movie, right,
I mean, you're just getting paid.
Speaker 6: You're not going away to have a movie career exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're going You're getting paid to just you know,
lick Hogan's balls. I don't hold anything really against it.
Of course, he was just doing his job. I just
think it was a little bigger than it needed to be.
After this, I took off about a year or so.
That is when we went to film. Like you said, there,
mister Nanny. So that is a beefcake's position and all
this another victim along the way in the campaign to
set up SID for WrestleMania against Hogan was Virgil. Of course,
we talked about this during our Virgil tribute show and
how impactful it was to us as young viewers to
watch SID, you know, expose the metal buckling smash Virgil's
face into it to where he had to wear a
nose you know, a face mask thing whatever you call
the those things brace basically, yeah, like the face protector on.
Speaker 6: His face for weeks. And you know, perhaps even more interestingly,
in the Hannibal shoot interview he did, you know, he
was asked about people that he's run across in the business.
SID was and they mentioned Lenny Poffo, who of course
was there with Randy when he introduced him into the business.
And then Virgil comes up as well for reasons that well,
I'm not going to give you time to connect the dots.
Speaker 3: I just have to listen.
Speaker 24: Well, you know, Devin, all the stories are all going
to come back to one story, and that's him able
to perform moreal sex on myself.
Speaker 11: I honestly say I never saw it. I did see
Virgil do that one time. He actually virtual got fired
for doing that. He was doing.
Speaker 24: He was worked in Memphis Territory, and he did it
in front of Jerry Jarrett and they fired him right away.
Speaker 11: So that doesn't always help you out. Speaking of Jerry
Jerry and what did you take of him.
Speaker 6: Doesn't always help you, Bob.
Speaker 3: I mean it should. Honestly, you know, if you can
blow yourself, you should, Uh you know, I should, you
should be your gimmick, talk about doing the job. I
mean the way Sid tells that story is also so Sid.
You know, yeah, well you know he, you know, a
performer sex on himself and he laughs a little bit
at the end. Yeah, he delivers a matter of fact
like yeah, with the same intonation. It's like, you know,
this is the thing that really happens, and you know exactly.
He's so weird.
Speaker 6: He's such a weird guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a fucking he is weird. Weird is is
you know? Uh you know, I don't I don't, I don't.
I don't generally generally like that word, because you know,
we're all weird. But he's fucking weird. Man, He's a
bizarre individual.
Speaker 6: It's fine, it's fine. Stop falling for the gimmick.
Speaker 3: I watch him, I watch him get see. I didn't see.
I didn't see Brutus give himself oral sex, but I
did see Virgil do it.
Speaker 6: He said about Lannie.
Speaker 3: I've seen virgiline, so I've seen. I'm seeing Virgil blow himself.
The fuck's happening. And you know, here's the thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Jerry Jarrett did get mad about it. But you know,
it's one thing to just do it to show the
boys you can do it as a party trick, you know, haha,
we have a good laugh. But why did Virgil have
to keep going until he came?
Speaker 3: I want to tell you something. I saw Virgil go
at it, and I saw him blows in his mouth
go at it. So it's all fine, is what we're
trying to behavior. It's the way people should act, honestly.
If you can, you should show it.
Speaker 6: So, you know, I say, what's what's left unspoken here?
What what might be a fat X factor that Bruno
is kind of intimating there that it would change Sid's
moods so much, Well, let's not forget that. In November
of nineteen ninety one, according to the Observer, Vince McMahon
told Dave Meltzer that forty nine percent of the roster
failed the initial round of steroid tests that were administered.
CRUGT tests for illicited substances are steroids, and you know,
color me a cynic, but you can't just as well
send everybody home is set half your roster home when
they come back with shit in their system. So you
perhaps then develop this get out of jail free card
where everyone just has to show decreasing levels and that's
fair to everybody. I'm not saying it's unfair of a system,
but I don't know. If that number was twenty five percent,
maybe he would have made examples out of people right
away instead of waiting. Well, you know, you could also
petition them, as you can always do in any drug
testing program, to say, hey, the stuff I'm taking, even
though it's kind of against policy, I have a doctor's note,
right boss, that's right, of course, and you know what
I'm taking. I'm disclosing to you what I'm taking. And
I think sid really thought that if he, if he
was forthright in disclosing things, that he was going to
be allowed through I'm sure gimmick doctors and stuff to
keep gearing up. Perhaps it's perhaps it's a little wink
wink and a nudge nudge that when Harvey Whippleman comes
into ninety two to manage him, he's a doctor with
a doctor's bag like a George's.
Speaker 3: The horrion doctor is doctor Bruno. He's got a license doctor.
Speaker 6: Of course, he's got a doctor at his side, and
so this becomes part of the of the cid.
Speaker 3: STO imagine if he if he if he if uh said, listen,
I'll tell you a pal. You know, I'm under a
little bit of pressure with the federal government and steroids
and whatnot, so I got to tell you something. I'm
not a little alarmed. I'm not pleased with the fact
that you failed the drug test. You your your sample
was shown to have steroids in it. I understand, yes, yes,
I know you understand, but said I have to you know,
I have to. I gotta let you go pale. But
I have a doctor's note. I didn't know that. Great,
that's actually tell you what that actually that actually that's
a relief. I'm I don't know what else gonna do
there for a second, all right, Can I can I
see the note? Fine? I really thought he was gonna
say no, thank you. Let me say we got to
hear the doctor's note. But yes, I hereby prescribe said
tune take uh steroids and said, this note is signed
by doctor Harvey Whippleman. Yeah, he's Bruno is my doctor.
What is what is his doctorate in? Right?
Speaker 6: Pardon me? Said I didn't take him for a for
an MD.
Speaker 3: I really didn't, you know. I know we gave him
the doctor gimmick, but didn't realize he actually he went
for the m D. There, So what is he? What
is he? What is he a doctor of? What's his practice?
He practices in SID medicine. Excuse me, he practices the
medicine of SID Justice. Yeah, well, uh, I say, that's
that's very interesting. I uh uh said, I can't. I
can't do this. I can't do this. All right, he's
not a real doctor, Yes he is. No, he's not.
I gotta let you go. I do not authorize myself
to go. Right. Well, that's fine, you don't have to
author I'm authorized on the fact that you are gone.
You're done, You're out of the w w A. I
fired you, mister McMahon. I want you to look in
my eyes. You have no authority to fire sid Justice. Okay,
you do not have the wherewithal the strategic ability nor
the legal power to ever dictate what sid Justice does
or does not do. Well. Actually, I do have shot.
Speaker 9: I know that.
Speaker 3: That's all I got.
Speaker 6: Oh, Ship, there's never anything to say after that. It's awesome.
I mean, what a fucking ride with this guy. This
this this doctor is from Harvey Whipplelman. So I'm sure
said denies like, you know, manipulating a lot, right, I'm
sure he denies all of this, denies using it, denies
manipulating drug tests. Here he is to r a video.
Speaker 22: Now at the time, right before WrestleMania, maybe you can
put this to rest. W F put out a lot
of things saying that you failed a urine test at
the time that you were you know that that they
were they were giving out urinest with steroids, and that
you know that yours came up negative, but they put
you in the main event. Anyway, that you should give
them a favor for letting, you know them put you
in the main event.
Speaker 11: Is there any truth to that?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 9: Oh, a matter of fact, the pissed test wasn't until
after WrestleMania. And the thing was, Vince knew exactly what
I was on because I told you you know, uh,
there was no hiding that, you know. Uh now I
was fucking using someone else's pissed putting that bottle to
I didn't get caught, you know.
Speaker 11: But the thing about that is, we know, you know exactly, okay,
who does and doesn't do steroids?
Speaker 33: And when I was up to the four don't and
I was clean and uh never the last time I
was there, I never felt the pissed is And but
some guys were a lot off, bigger than me and
a lot less working out.
Speaker 3: So there is just yeah, someone's going on to I
used someone else's piss You just said it. Yeah, he
said it. You admitted it right there.
Speaker 2: It's the fan Wrestling Podcast.
Speaker 1: He's a La Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and Joan.
Speaker 6: What a character this fucking guy was. He's out of
his mind.
Speaker 3: He's such a fucking.
Speaker 6: It's something. It starts to stack up, you know, Like
this guy just doesn't stop with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just keeps going and going like he's the
he's the energy energizer buddy of lunacy.
Speaker 6: It's a great it's a matter of great debate. I
had trouble finding what the interviewer is referencing in terms
of maybe if someone out there can hel help me
this idea that WWF, I feel like I remember reading
something about how we didn't know all this about Sid's
drug tests around Wrestlmania eight until years later. To me,
it was like they're probably on some kind of like
pr campaign to push back against him or something to
where they disclosed this or say this publicly. I couldn't
find it, but I do remember kind of vaguely hearing
that we didn't know all this until years later. Nonetheless,
the question of whether the failed drug test was before
WrestleMania eight and they let him go forward anyway, or
if a Sid just said it was after. One of
the one of the fine arts of this kind of
thing is you you you do the test beforehand, but
you you see to it that you don't get the
results till after afterwards.
Speaker 3: Right, so that you get your big pain. It makes
more sense.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, people have accused that an mma for years
and stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised that gives both
both sides can tell their story. WWF can say you know,
you you fail a test before Mania, and SID can
say I failed it after because it's a matter of
when we found out I failed as opposed to WY.
The test itself was was administered.
Speaker 3: But that's all that matters, is when you know.
Speaker 6: And then all of a sudden he's had enough of
this shit. All of a sudden, he's really accelerating his
level of dissatisfaction. But as we'll get to further down
the road here in the tribute, even the attack on Arn,
when you hear Colonel Rob Parker talk about it, he
knew Sid pretty well. The first things he thinks of
as to why Sid would be put in such an
irritable place was because he couldn't bring a shit with
him to England. Remember that episode took place in England,
and you can't just as well transport those kinds of
substances across the country lines you're going to get found
out of the airport. So that was a prolonged period
of time for Sid to go without his shit. And
just like any other drug, right that you become reliant on,
especially one that YEP is so central to your self
image and your idea of like your meal ticket, as steroids,
if you go cold turkey off them for a while,
you become an irritable son. Of a I mean, you're
irritable enough on them. A lot of people are let
alone when you're being deprived of them. And therefore exactly,
you know, your lifeblood to the way you think about it.
So he chucked up, Colonel Parker chucks up how violent
Sid got in that episode to being you know, weaning
off and being anxious and being stressed out about that.
Speaker 3: I mean that kind of makes sense. Actually, yeah, I
never heard it.
Speaker 6: Kind of put that way. But that was the first
thing he thought of, the first thing he cited in
terms of why it got that way. Plus there was
some drinking and they've been traving an awful long time
on a bus that, as we'll get to that only
had booze on it, and they were waiting for their food,
and it was just not a good combination of circumstances
at all in terms of preventing things like that from
coming to a head. But anyway, we're on our way
to WrestleMania Aid and whether the piss tests took place
before or after the show where the results came in
before or after the show, as we all know very well,
and it's a big part of why we're here. Sid
makes that walk and that WrestleMania eight entrance that really
sinks it in.
Speaker 17: If you ask me, see there said Justice Hulk Hogan
didn't indicate.
Speaker 3: This would be his life. Jab, I don't care.
Speaker 31: I don't give a damn. How about the liveries of
Hulk Hogan. The only thing they remember is that Sid
Justice is the man that ined ol Comania. Now you Hogan,
AH curse you. I curse you in every Hulk harmaniac
because uh, because.
Speaker 3: Uh the world.
Speaker 19: Let's get back to ringside.
Speaker 21: Tremendous challenge for the immortal Hank Hogan, the maniac, the
insane Sid Justice hal.
Speaker 23: Comania could all end. Likely in my book, Brain hal
Comania will live forever. Let's go down the ringside.
Speaker 11: What'd you ask me, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2: This is the second half of our double mad event.
Speaker 15: I'm going to sketchule for one ball, and this time
I introduce to you.
Speaker 2: Harvey Whippleman.
Speaker 7: That is doctor Harvey Whippleman.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 7: This is the main event at Wrastlemania, and I'm your announcer.
Speaker 3: Here we fucking go comb on the one on your fat.
Speaker 15: And so respect to that greated man in the world
ranting better race side, So respect the man. I know,
and da a race back street jacket material.
Speaker 7: You're looking at it.
Speaker 2: Yep, he's not all there.
Speaker 18: He's not wrapped too tight.
Speaker 3: The elevator doesn't go to the top. He's not playing
with a full set of cards.
Speaker 8: And Hulk Hogan is in serious trouble. One way or
the other.
Speaker 3: Said it was predetermined that he would end the ring.
Well he's got and I heard you last week tell
him the newspaper.
Speaker 7: Writer you refer to him as psychosis.
Speaker 23: There is right there is lass with the white coats
and the big net, a looking lenders guy.
Speaker 20: You bet every a lot of guys and a lot
of nets.
Speaker 23: Not very often that the hunks ask the stuff in
there with someone as big or large.
Speaker 3: Tear of that himself. But in this case, actually he
spent his career fucking doing that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that that was the race was on to find
someone that could make Cogan look small.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, that's that's what he always fucking was
against people that were bigger than him. That was that's
what That's what sold out arenas.
Speaker 6: Which is funny because kind of but like he worked
Randy Savage and that did the best business. Yeah, And
he was bigger than Randy, he was bigger than Piper,
and that did awesome business as well. But I'll tell
you that's an entrance.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You watch that building and you watch him make that
slow walk, and yep, he carries himself with so much confidence.
Speaker 3: He's spectacular. Listen. He was. He was great. I mean,
he was a real he was a legit threat, like
I said, he he he Yeah, he scared me. And
it was one of the you know, I I remember
again not being able to watch the television, you know,
like I didn't watch the WRESTLINGIA live, so I had
to wait to watch you get the results until uh
the following weekend.
Speaker 6: Amazing, you know, that's a long ass time. And during
the course of the contest, he looks into the mic
and into the camera and gives us one of those
lines that he'll be known for for forever.
Speaker 3: Oh, I've never I'll never seen anybody do that. The
hot Tim Henry pet that's that choke slam hoes with
no hand.
Speaker 8: He shut him down And tell the man.
Speaker 7: That's Omer, it's baby, he's op the media.
Speaker 3: That's ommer. He's done his number. Chuck up here few
roll along.
Speaker 30: See we have a sand.
Speaker 7: It goes like death do it to the man, as he.
Speaker 8: Would go on, do you but do it first?
Speaker 6: That's just so Sid, because I'm sitting really does that
make sense?
Speaker 3: Like maybe? And halfway?
Speaker 6: Does I know what he's saying? That's the thing with Sid,
like very rarely did you have no clue what he
was talking about? Yeah, but it was just the word
choice was always so befuddling that you were like, wait
a minute, did he actually did he unintentionally get me
to draw that conclusion and meant to say something else?
Do That's the thing you'll never know do into him
another man? Is he would do unto you, but do
it first? But you just said you did it like
you just did onto another man before he could do
it to you. So of course you did it first.
Speaker 3: You just said that. Do you want I guess? Yeah, yeah, sure,
whatever you say, pal, whatever you say, do you do first?
My other do onto some before they do it to you?
Do you do that first? Or do you just do
the first half first, the second half first, or do
you do you just leave it alone altogether?
Speaker 6: That'd be nice. Well, you know, you'd think with this
this huge setting, this massive opportunity, this great atmosphere working
against the top guy in the business, that Sid would
be able to differentiate between WrestleMania and the other shots
on the circuit.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 11: Oh, no way, no way.
Speaker 6: This is another legendary thing. He once said to Sean
Mooey about WrestleMania eight.
Speaker 8: You know, Sean, this is a deal and I'm not exaggerating.
I don't even remember my first WrestleMania. I didn't realize
it was WrestleMania. And I'm not kidding you. I never
looked at a booking sheet. I didn't care who was
working with. I didn't care it was a business to me.
I didn't care for wonder the laws. I just wanted
to get paid.
Speaker 19: So it was a house show.
Speaker 11: Basically, I'm just Sean just showing up.
Speaker 8: Yes, honestly, you know I got You know, after my
first WrestleMania, someone said, you know you were main event Wreussellmania.
I said, no, wasn't the He said yes, and I
remember that the who's you don't? But I didn't really
realize that was WrestleMania. I do remember doing the interviews
for it, and because I had that Southern accent, I
guess I was saying wrestling mana or saying it the
wrong way, and there was a big sign there said
tell sid just say mania.
Speaker 3: I mean this guy is something lunatic, something else, like
who fucking who fucking says that? Like, I don't even
remember my first WrestleMania. I thought was a house show.
I mean he I don't know, I don't know. I
think he's playing on a few levels with that. I
don't believe for a second that he doesn't remember that
that was WrestleMania. I agree.
Speaker 6: He's trying to make a point about how he was
in this to make money and he wasn't a mark
for any particular moment, which of course he was, of
course he was.
Speaker 3: Later on if he wasn't if he if he if
he wasn't a mark for a moment like that, then
he wouldn't have said I want to be Hulk Hogan,
I want Huld Cogan spot.
Speaker 6: And later on he talks about, you know, bring filling
this building, and he talks about his you know, he's
been asked in other interviews of what was your favorite
WrestleMania moment, and he tells.
Speaker 3: I don't have one. I don't even remember what Wrestlemnia.
Speaker 6: Was at this wrestleman opponent. He names this without even
going into the whole story about how he doesn't remember
his wrestling Mania, right, the idiot, Yeah, there's that.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I think that's that's Sid trying to spin a narrative
of him being, you know, all business and and the unsuccess.
Maybe there was some small thing where he didn't realize
it was WrestleMania to who he's at the building, I
just don't having heard him talk about this WrestleMania and
a bunch of other interviews, he's never said that except
to Sean Mooney. But you only have to say something
like that once. Right, that's the Sid story. And so
he comes into and out of we know the finish
of that match where Hogan drops the leg covers one
two and Sid basically the first person to kick out
of Hogan's leg drop in WWF yep. And it's a
big moment. And there's been a lot of hoopblog because
Charles Wright, who was Publishano and ran out during the match,
has always said that he missed his He's got a
whole story about how he was supposed to have hit
the ring before Sid had to kick out. But then
you hear Bruno tell it. He said that was exactly
what was supposed to happen, and it was in fact
Bruno that was supposed to cause the match ending disqualification,
not Papa Shango who comes out awfully late for somebody
that was expected to hit the ring in time for
that finish awfully late. Yeah, And so Whippleman doesn't even
say that he was late on breaking up the count.
When he explains it, he makes it seem and Sid
does too. He doesn't really talk about He's been asked
a hundred times what happened in this finish, and every
time Sid answers the question, he never mentions Papa Shango
being late on the queue ever, and he kind of
dismissed it out right in one interview. And when Whoopleman
talks about it, he talks about it. It's you know,
Sid was basically just a kick out of the leg drop.
Speaker 3: I think that I don't I don't necessarily buy that.
To me, that sounds like.
Speaker 6: Someone fucked up and they're trying not to own it.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think they're getting I think Sid
gets gets kind of a I cann't you know that
by saying that was that that that that he was
supposed to kick out of the leg drop. It makes
him seem that much, you know, better than they Oh yeah,
they booked me to the office, would write, you know, like,
I just don't let me tell you this. I just
don't think someone kicking out of the leg drop at
that point would have been wasted on a moment like that. Yeah,
because it is, it's such an afterthought the way it
plays out. The crowd is almost confused. No one even
fucking really does anything with it.
Speaker 6: And they don't mention it on commentary.
Speaker 3: They do briefly. Yeah, but that's a split second, right,
which to me says, you know, they get Vince in
the ear. Don't don't don't talk about that that fucked
up whatever it was, because when you see it happen
with Yokazuna the following year, it's a big deal. Yes,
it's a big deal.
Speaker 6: Really interesting. I don't know. I mean, I'll go with
Charles Wright as the truth tailor in this because but
I don't know with Whippmann. You know, I would think
Whippleman would blame Papa Shango.
Speaker 3: Too if that was the case, But I think but
not if he's a friend of Sid's. Yeah, and he
wants to make Sid look good.
Speaker 6: Yeah, accentually with the idea that the office you know
said it said it so that Sid would kick out
of a leg drop. I've emver heard Hogan. That's the
question for Hogan if you ever see him at a
at a beer thing. Hey, hey, when Sid kicks out
of a leg drop at wrestling the ate were you
surprised or was that was supposed to happen?
Speaker 7: Why?
Speaker 6: Who don't you ask that?
Speaker 3: What's it to you?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: What is there a video?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 3: Well, I don't even remember what you're talking you remember,
I don't think anyone's talking about.
Speaker 6: I got the video right here, Terry. No, No, you
don't have to take that out, brother, we.
Speaker 3: Got a line of them. I get it, dude. I
get what you're saying, brother, I get that you're saying.
Speaker 9: You have.
Speaker 3: AI brother right exactly.
Speaker 6: I don't I know that this is exactly exactly. I mean,
deep fakes, dude. Who knows more about that than than
a sports entertainer?
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm all about deep fake dude. Did you.
Speaker 6: Let's see that phone?
Speaker 3: Brother? No, let me see the phone, brother, what's your phone?
We're taking pictures of brother Old Hogan. Yeah, yeah, sure,
I came to pictures. I came to take care a
photo of you. Why, dude, what do you? What are
you trying to prove? Brother?
Speaker 6: Triangle?
Speaker 3: What you're trying to roll me up to? You know what?
Speaker 6: What's next? You want to take a shot behind me?
Speaker 21: Brother?
Speaker 3: What do you? What do you weigh?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 3: Nine to five pounds? Soaking wet?
Speaker 11: Dude?
Speaker 3: You gonna roll me up?
Speaker 21: Brother?
Speaker 7: Huh?
Speaker 3: Huh uh?
Speaker 6: Trivia question t l f X trivia question.
Speaker 3: What's the best? Who?
Speaker 6: What episode does it appear on? No, it isn't Summer
Slam O five, It isn't one of the Hogan headline shows.
Speaker 3: It's the Sid Tribute.
Speaker 6: Where where he's accosting someone for taking pictures of him.
Speaker 3: So good, I had a fucking meet and greet.
Speaker 6: I mean, dude, that's great stuff. So yeah, who knows
the mystery that leg drop? But Sid has never leaned
into it one way or the other. As far as
blaming anybody else, he just says that's how it's supposed
to happen. This is also a guy who claims not
to remember it's WrestleMania.
Speaker 3: So that was a house show.
Speaker 6: And that's you know, he didn't say it was a
house show. Sean Mooney that that's I kind of yeah,
people say Sid thought it was a joke. Sid doesn't
think it's a house show. Mooney's the one that says that,
and he kind of goes along with it. But it's
not like Sid volunteers that. And I saw some kind
of lazy shorthand trying to recall some hilarious things he said.
It's saying saying that, but anyway that that's where it
comes from, and that's that is part funny, and it's
it's kind of like the Kevin Nash story of how
Sid turned down the Hogan's thought to be he It's like, no,
that's it's not what Sid said happened at all. He
sort of was thrust into being a heel against what
he expected to happen. He didn't suggest. So there's trouble. Now, okay,
there's trouble. Sid is unhappy. This piss test isn't going
to go in his direction. WrestleMania is over and he
doesn't win. We know Ultimate Warrior returns at the end
of that match to run off Shango and Sid the
Warrior who man you talk about a guy who Sid's
career is inextricably tied to one way or the other.
He gets into that spot prematurely and accelerated because Warrior
gets fired. Warrior comes back, and Sid, as we're about
to talk about, basically leaves because Warriors back. In no
small part, it kind of makes redundant in some ways
that position that Sid was expected to fill as a babyface.
And then flash forward to ninety six, why does Sid
come back boss for the international incident?
Speaker 3: Fucking Warrior?
Speaker 6: Sid gets Warrior gets fired exactly, So this is kind
of a weird thing that's developing between Sid and Jim
Helwig and no, Warrior gets fired from WCW, and within
months Sid's in WCW. As they probably have some free
money slashing around that would have went to Jim Hallway.
I mean, that's just a position there. But Sid gets
a very fat contract to come into nineteen ninety nine,
so it's all very deeply funny. And of course, as
per tradition, after WrestleMania, the boys go on the European
Tour and that's a big long slog and Sid goes
ahead and does that tour.
Speaker 3: We've seen stuff from it we've seen Sid Face the
Undertaker as we have.
Speaker 6: It's in the archives on one of the Coliseum home videos.
So they get back and this is where we pick
back up with Downtown Bruno and his book recollecting what
It's Like to travel with a cranky Sid After a
European tour.
Speaker 3: Five days after we returned to the United States, Sid
and I were booked on a ten day run through
the Northeast. Sid was scheduled the wrestle Ultimate Warrior for
the entire tour. The traffic jams, can ingestion, high prices,
and general chaos of the Northeast are enough to put
anybody in a bad mood.
Speaker 6: These Southern boys and they're fucking problems with real traffic, man.
It's it's like, shut the fuck up about it. Seriously,
Oh my god, Connecticut gestion, general chaos, and evidently sent
Sid over the edge. I don't have any other explanation
for his irrational behavior, or maybe because he's off the juice.
Speaker 3: Maybe Uh. Since first match with Warrior took place in Baltimore,
to say the match sucked is probably giving Sid in
Warrior more credit than they deserve. We got to see.
Speaker 6: This is an unreleased we need to see.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, I need to see all the this is
this was my feud too, like this is a few
that I again became a staple for me.
Speaker 6: As a kid, so many you know, expecting anything else.
Speaker 3: Sid and Warrior, like in my Hansber universe, they were
at war all the time.
Speaker 6: Amazing.
Speaker 3: It was a constant battle. And I never saw one
fucking match, oh never. None of them made it to television.
Got to and this, by the way, if you're getting
deja vu longtime listeners. We did touch on this part
of Bruno's book in the episode we did about the
Saturday Nights main Event when Sid turns on Hogan m Truthfully,
the fact that they had a bad match wasn't Sid's fault.
Warrior was the type of guy who made a great entrance,
entering the arena to the sound of loud music, a
colorful outfit and face paint. He would bark at the
ceiling and shake the ropes sadly. However, when the music stopped,
so did his charisma. Warrior had a main event body
and a squash jaw brain, which was my expression. My
friend Steve Lombardi made up. Steve wasn't talking about Warrior
when he used that phrase, but I thought it was appropriate,
so I'll use it for this particular story. Anyway. To
put it bluntly, Sid, it wasn't exactly satisfied with the match.
I knew he was upset about it, but he refused
to talk about it. The next day, at the Old
Boston Garden Arena, Sid went ballistic in the dressing room
after his match. I knew how tough it was to
work with Warrior, but I just couldn't understand why he
was making such a big deal out of it. He
kicked a chair, threw his boots across the room, and scowled.
He practically hyperventilated as he changed back into his street clothes.
When George Steele, the agent for that show, tried to
approach him, Sid just said, George till Vincent Klitton, I'm
going home now, get the fuck away from me now.
He was livid, and his actions were frightening to watch.
When it came to scaring me, his actions took a
back seat to what he had to say after we
left the arena, Bruno, you're gonna finish up two in
the airport and you're gonna fly back to Memphis.
Speaker 7: With me.
Speaker 3: Sid rented and rage irrationally all the way to Logan
in an international airport. He talked about how terrible things
were in the WWE and how ridiculous it was for
him to be working with Warrior. He went on and on.
Once again, just like all the times in CWF, I
was there to bear the brunt of his anger. I
begged Sid to reconsider as we stood in front of
the airline ticket counter. I suggested he'd go explain his
grievances to Vincent the following Dan Niagara Falls TV whatever,
whatever the whatever the problem, I assured him, vinc will
fixing for you. Sid would hear none of it. He
simply told me to get my credit card and buy
a one way ticket to Memphis. Unbelievable, or he would
snap your fucking neck.
Speaker 6: Nice guy.
Speaker 3: Not wanting my next snaps, I pulled out my trusty
visa and slapped it on the Northwest ticket counter, and
without so much as telling a soul from the company,
I pulled a hank snow with Sid. We landed in Memphis.
Sid into his car and drove home to Arkansas, while
I hoped into my truck and drove to Mississippi. As
we parted, Sid told me tomorrow call Vincent, thank him
for everything, but tell him that you want you want
to finish up, then call Lawlor and go back to USWA.
As soon as again I'm on ww contract, I'll take
you to w CW with me.
Speaker 6: Jesus Christ, no choice in the matter. As we know
Downtown Bruno would actually stay with WWF. He goes on
his book to talk about how as soon as Vince
is frantically trying to get him on the phone, realizing
that Sid skipped out on him. And when he does
get Berno on the phone, he says, you still want
to work here? And he says yes. And Bruno stayed
booked for a while and actually worked for the company
for years and years and years and went backstage logistics capacity.
And I think he's even still there. I'm not entirely
sure as to his status, but I mean, you know,
he went to manage Kamala the rest of the year,
sure did ye stayed on TV for a while, so
he didn't follow Sid as he sat out his WWF contract.
And of course it being spring becoming summer, you know,
people start saying, yeah, you know, Sid's finding a way
to get out just in time for softball season. But
that that's perhaps the story that uh that that lives
in infamy and in the legend and myth. But I
might not have all of the the direct support unlike
the other one in the w W days when he
was recuperating from that lung surgery. I guess Arkansas baseball
is a really big deal. We get a note from
somebody that said, like the softball rather that it's actually
some of the highest level male softball teams in the
country play at Arkansas.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I didn't know there were high
level softball team begin with. I guess Sid was was
within his rights to take this a little more seriously
than I guess he'd you know, take it very seriously.
It's just like a you know, it's just like a
football player, you know, you know, it just comes to
wrestle the off season so different. I can't.
Speaker 6: I can't, you know, I can't deny that. I can't
find I can't.
Speaker 3: When you know you don't make fun of Kevin Green
for you know, doing w c W during the off season,
you know, what's the big deal? Like you should shut
the fuck up, right he's a softball player than a wrestler.
It's our pal William Webb on Patreon, who writes softball
is huge in Arkansas with no pro sports teams except
for the minor league baseball team, so college sports are
huge and the men's baseball team and women's softball team
are highly revered. For what it's worth, Sid probably worked
rice fields, as that's one of the few crops that grows. Well.
Speaker 6: I remember him talking about corn, but I don't know.
Maybe you're right.
Speaker 3: What's so like? Let me tell you. So I don't
understand men's softball. What's the difference between it and baseball,
big ball?
Speaker 6: Just the big ball yep, underhand pitching, okay, And I
think there's different dimensions to the field as far as
how far away the home run is and stuff.
Speaker 3: Or maybe the people who play live in different dimensions.
Speaker 6: It's definitely in the world. He mind, Well, it's definitely
a way like I feel like when men get older,
it becomes really hard for them to play regular baseball
without getting hurt. I think it's I think the dimensions
make it easier to play longer. So it's like I
always associate men's softball with older people, and I don't
exactly know why, but you know, if you're going to
start like an old man's league, it's never.
Speaker 3: Going to be baseball.
Speaker 6: It's going to be softball, and it's a soft pitch,
so you can really crack the ball. No one's going
to get beaned and put on the fucking you know shelf. Sure,
sure you can only throw a ball that's that big,
that hard anyway. So I think that that's kind of
kind of it. And I think the nature of the
ball is softer too, But that's just that's what I
can do for you there. But yeah, I think I
think we can read the subtext in Bruno's writing as
to what might be animating Sid. I think I think
it's a fair play. I think it's it's no coincidence,
it's sd Sid quits the company twice in four months
after they institute pissed testing in November ninety one. Yeah,
or at least the results come in November ninety one.
So all that is to say that no one's better
at coming up with a reason to have a big
fit and bounce and dip than the great Sid Uty.
As for his opponent during this last few outings in
this memorable wwfron Ultimate Warrior. He did sit for a
shoot interview and did talk briefly here about working with Sid,
and I think I think, you know, kind of supports
at least the narrative about them going back and forth
on how much offense Warrior expected Sid to give to
him upon his return at wrestling.
Speaker 25: He eight Sid came in after I left in ninety one,
and so we never really got to know one another.
Speaker 27: And he when I came back in ninety two, just
like I did when I came back in ninety six
with Hunter Helmsley, he just misunderstood I was as a
businessman saying this is Ultimate Warrior.
Speaker 11: I'm ultimate Warrior.
Speaker 25: Is this this is the way he's accepted by the people,
This is how he is a money maker.
Speaker 11: And he had been the guy.
Speaker 25: He had been the big, tall guy with big arms
and big muscles and know, you know, their version of
intense character that they had at the time. And when
I came back, I mean, I think he was at
the least he's you know, his feelings were probably hurt
and at the most, you know, he was offended and
he wasn't going to go along with what that needed.
Speaker 6: To be done, also reporting that said was officially suspended
for a period of no less than six weeks by
the w WF for unprofessional conduct, which was an all
encompassing term that they used back then, and they didn't
want to be specific as to why So left. This
is coming after the aforementioned scene were Sid storms out
of the Boston Garden after a match with Ultimate Warrior,
because Meltzer wrote, he was unhappy either with the way
they were going to the finish or the finish itself,
and we got all the details there as to what
that was about. Papa Shango, of all people, was called
to fill in on Sid's spots on these cards that
he began to miss pulled from Midwest bookings. Is they
were running two different circuits, two different rosters at that
point in time. On the house shows. There's apparently some
word that Sid was trying to negotiate with Japan Sunday's
Tokyo Sports. Meltzer wrote at the time it was the
board of that Justice, who was believed to have had
more than one year left on his WWF contract, was
now negotiating in New Japan, although New Japan's office didn't
confirm the story and so Meltzer concludes, this marks the
third straight year that Justice hasn't worked during this time
of year, I e. Softball season.
Speaker 3: That's insane.
Speaker 6: We close this period of our tribute to Sid and
our look back on his life and times with his
recollections of this final night in the ww F locker room,
of this memorable run that.
Speaker 8: Just that's maybe one of the worst moments of my
life working with that guy. I'm not a kid yet.
That's when I already gave my notice and I was
just trying to get the fuck out of there. And
the first time I had to work with guy in Baltimore.
As he says, sim will clothes line and clothesline and
clothes line, and then you take a power and I'm
gonna shake the ropes. I said, no, Jim, I'm gonna
come in. I'm gonna stop you. You're gonna duck my
clothes line. You're gonna give me one clothes line. Then
you shake your ropes and he reached him to the said,
well the stars tell us to goy. I was looking
around like man, my own candle camera, and that walked
down to Jack Landra. This is exact exactly was that.
I said, landa you bet get on the phone, called Vince,
but said, if I have to work with this motherfucking
do this finish one more night, I'm gonna go home
and I'm not gonna answer the fucking phone. And that
we did in Boston the next night, and that's exactly
what happened. I packed my ship up, went home and
then't and didn't come back.
Speaker 6: Indeed, he didn't. He didn't answer the call until it
was in fact, World Championship Wrestling calling back, and Arn
Anderson here he comes.
Speaker 1: As a TJ said, this production its contents is intended
for private use only