WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.919 Here we are. The second day, something was throwing fox 2 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:06.200 and it was hitting one roof. Everybody would run over there. 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:08.279 Then it would hit another roof on a different cabin. 4 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.039 They'd run over there. If you think about it now, 5 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:12.599 it's comical, you know, to be running around, you know, 6 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:14.640 like you're going to catch them or something. Anyway, they 7 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:18.000 finally came back. When we're sitting down. It's broad daylight. 8 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.280 You used to in an old days, being able to 9 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.679 drive in a like a round driveway to each cabin. 10 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.719 Most of it is overgrown and grown back, and there 11 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:29.239 is this one place. We call it the bottleneck because 12 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.399 it is practically the only place you can walk without 13 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.600 getting harms. You know, it's grassy, but it's reasonable. And 14 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.240 we were sitting in a semicircle and there's five of us, 15 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:43.439 and we started hearing something walking and we had just 16 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.640 assumed it was a fox that we had been feeding, 17 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:47.759 coming up to see if we had eight thing to eat, 18 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:49.920 you know. And I'm sitting in the chair that's looking 19 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.719 right down the bottleneck, and all of a sudden, there 20 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:53.079 they are. 21 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:28.959 Kathy, Welcome to Bigfoot Crossroads. 22 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:30.239 Thank you for having me on. 23 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:33.680 Yeah, glad to have you for my listeners that aren't 24 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:39.159 familiar with the amazing legend. Kathy Strain, tell a little 25 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:42.120 bit about yourself and how you got started in this 26 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:43.519 crazy Bigfoot stuff. 27 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:48.359 My name is Kathy Strain and I am the forest 28 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.640 archaeologist and tarbo relations program manager for the Stanisauce National 29 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.760 Forest in California. I have a bachelor's and master's screen 30 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:05.640 anthropology and been doing the archaeology for thirty five years 31 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.319 and probably Bigfoot just as long, if not longer. I 32 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.400 got into Bigfoot, and she Bigfoot got me into anthropology, 33 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.080 which is really a strange way of going about getting 34 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.360 a job. But essentially, when I was in fifth grade, 35 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:21.919 oh well, let me back up. I saw legend of 36 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.120 Boggie Creek when I was a little girl, and I 37 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:29.000 just fell in love with the idea of an undocumented 38 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:33.879 animal out in the woods somewhere, you know. And in 39 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:38.360 fifth grade I asked my teacher what do I need 40 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:42.520 to do to study Bigfoot for a living, and she goes, well, 41 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.879 you probably have to go into anthropology, and I said okay, 42 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.919 And so I just was stayed straight on that path. 43 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:51.879 Figured it out pretty quickly that nobody was going to 44 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:55.240 pay me to study Bigfoot. But by then I'm already 45 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.039 you know, in love with the concept of anthropology and 46 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:03.680 archaeology and all that stuff, and so that's how I 47 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:08.240 got into it. And I'm just really thankful for my 48 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:13.240 parents always being so supportive of all that stuff, because 49 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:17.120 you know, when I was young, when we my family 50 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.240 was one that always camped and hiked and stuff. We 51 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:22.680 never went to like Disneyland or stuff like that. We 52 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.680 were you know, national parks, national forests, you know those 53 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.919 types of places, and my dad would indulge me and 54 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:33.319 pretend like what we were really doing is going on 55 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:38.159 a Bigfoot expeditions. Of course, you know, I was keen 56 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:39.960 on that during the day, but not so much at night. 57 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:43.639 But anyways, so I've been studying bigfoot for a very 58 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:44.360 very long time. 59 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:49.719 That's so awesome though, that like as a child, everybody 60 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.960 was supportive of the idea, and that you actually followed 61 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.520 it through into adulthood. I don't think I've ever heard 62 00:03:58.520 --> 00:03:59.680 of anybody that's done that. 63 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.280 Yeah, most people don't even think about bigfoot until they 64 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.039 have sightings, right, and then they want to know more 65 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.479 about what it is that they saw, and then spend 66 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:12.039 a lot of time trying to get a chance to 67 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.840 see it again and so and so I'm the exact 68 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.920 opposite of that. So it was I didn't have a 69 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:20.519 sighting of a big foot until twenty twelve. So can 70 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.079 you imagine being and then doing this for that amount 71 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.839 of time and never I mean I had seen other stuff, 72 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.199 has seen footprints, I've heard noises, I've been yelled at, 73 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:33.319 you know, all that stuff that goes with that. But 74 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:37.199 I mean I didn't have my first sighting until twenty twelve, 75 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:41.079 So that's a long time to you know, keep hoping. 76 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.040 Yeah, I wanted to ask you a little bit about 77 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:49.600 your time with the BFRO. That organization has been around 78 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:54.160 since I got involved, and they're still kind of like 79 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:58.399 the main name that comes up in conversation as far 80 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.279 as research organizations go. Not that there's not a lot 81 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.959 of other great ones, some that you're actually involved with, 82 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.759 I believe, and this may be difficult for you to answer, 83 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:12.160 but how is life in the BFO back then different 84 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:13.920 than what it seems to be now? 85 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:22.639 Well, back then we were more interested in witness accounts 86 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:26.759 and calling them and following up, trying to find the 87 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:29.720 most recent stuff that we could find, trying to get 88 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:31.959 you know if they had hairs or blood or any 89 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:36.480 kind of evidence, and I don't. I can't tell you 90 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.399 what the BFO is like now because I'm not in 91 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:44.279 it and I don't follow anything that they do. Doesn't 92 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:47.199 seem like I last time I was on their website 93 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.959 looking for a report I had done years ago, it 94 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.439 didn't look like there was anything really new going on. 95 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.079 So I don't know if they still follow up on 96 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.800 sightings or not so, but it does seem like they 97 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.600 do a lot of paid expeditions though that that looks 98 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:10.199 like that's that that we were, well, we kind of 99 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.399 sort of started doing that when I left. 100 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:17.480 Right, Yeah, most of the groups were really based around, 101 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:23.079 like you're talking about witness accounts, you know, people reporting 102 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.639 their sightings and then talking with the witness and investigating 103 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.000 the property or the location or whatever. And you don't 104 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.199 really see that much of that sort of investigation going on. Now. 105 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.040 Do you think research is kind of missing a step 106 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.879 by kind of putting the witnesses to the background and 107 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:41.879 just doing their own thing. 108 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.920 I think that is a mistake because one of the 109 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:52.560 things witnesses are good for is time and place, and 110 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:57.519 that will lead you to you know, patterns and patterns 111 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:02.759 are what we can use to then hypothesize what may 112 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.000 be going on in this area at a certain time 113 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:08.480 of year, especially if it's consistent. You know, consistency is 114 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:10.759 one of those things that's really important because then you 115 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:13.879 can start seeing those patterns. And if you don't talk 116 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:19.800 to witnesses, you know, how do you really know what's 117 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.040 going on, And especially if it's in your research area, 118 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.040 I think it's very important to find out where the 119 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.560 hot areas are at that very moment in time if 120 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.079 you can get a witness to report it. You know, 121 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.600 I saw this yesterday. A lot of times at the BFO. 122 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:40.360 We were getting stuff that was from like twenty thirty 123 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.600 years ago, and people just wanted to get it off 124 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.600 their chest, you know, kind of feel like they've been 125 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.639 holding this in for all these years and now I 126 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.040 got to tell somebody what happened, and then they contact 127 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.639 a bfurro for that, And so it's a form of therapy, 128 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:57.639 I think, in a lot of ways. But you know, 129 00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.560 there's a lot of reason. I just got an email 130 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.920 this more about some stuff that was happening here in 131 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:08.319 where I live, and I hadn't heard about it myself, 132 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:12.519 you know, but generally somebody inadvertently contacts me one way 133 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.839 or the other. But even then, this is stuff that 134 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.680 happened months ago. And then what the email this morning 135 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:22.959 was about something that just happened this week, and so yeah, 136 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.279 so that stuff is pretty important, you know, to me 137 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.319 is to figure out, first of all, what did you see? 138 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.639 What was your experience? When was this, what time of 139 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:37.240 day or night? And then what did you see? Because sometimes, 140 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.639 you know, people, I don't do other cryptids. I only 141 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.799 do Bigfoot, and so I like to find out right 142 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.440 off the bat, what is it that you saw? And 143 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.559 then if it's the you know, ends up being something 144 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.960 like dog Man or I don't know, a ghost or something, 145 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.879 then I can go, well, this isn't something that that 146 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.320 I can deal with, so let me patch on to 147 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.120 somebody else, or thank you for your story kind of thing, 148 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:08.279 and so. And I find that very interesting because I 149 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.720 don't have an interest in anything else, and I don't 150 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:13.879 have the brain capacities to be interested in something else, 151 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.720 and I just don't. I find it very, very very 152 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:25.919 unplausible that there are all these other cryptids. And I 153 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:30.279 got I talked to a class like last week, I guess, 154 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.679 and somebody said, well, what about Boogerman and what about 155 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.840 blah blah? And I said, look, those are all those 156 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.000 are just local names for the same thing. There isn't 157 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:44.919 room for, you know, fifteen different kinds of cryptids in 158 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.720 one place. I mean, it just isn't. That's not logical, 159 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.519 you know, it's there. It's very plausible that we haven't 160 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:58.639 found one or two large or small cryptids, but you know, 161 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.519 not fifteen or twenty. So it's it's even if you 162 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:06.759 want to give somebody well, my bigfoot is browns and 163 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.279 those ones over there are black, Well that's just diversity. 164 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.919 That doesn't make it a new cryptid, you know. It's 165 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:15.799 it's those kinds of things that sometimes aren't like Dollie, 166 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.000 you know, did you guys think this stuff through? You know, 167 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:21.000 And there's dog man really dog manners that just a 168 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:25.080 poorly described bigfoot, you know kind of thing. But but 169 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.679 you know, there's all these other things that I get 170 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.919 asked all the time about other kinds of cryptids, and 171 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.039 I just will get people and go, I have no 172 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:36.639 idea what you're talking about, never heard of. It sounds 173 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:39.720 like it's like it's made up to me. So I 174 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.080 don't know about that so like a wraith. I think 175 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:44.320 I was asked that the other day about what a 176 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:45.840 wraith was, and I said, well, I don't know what 177 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.200 a race is, and I don't care what a race is. 178 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:51.080 The bugs that they're bugging me, I don't care. 179 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.639 I mean, that's kind of become a thing though over 180 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.159 the past I don't know, five years or so, it 181 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.080 seems at least, you know, to twenty years ago, it 182 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:06.200 was just Bigfoot. There wasn't anything else, and then every 183 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.080 once in a while you would get a report of 184 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.559 where somebody said, well I saw a bigfoot, but it 185 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.120 kind of had like a baboon snout on it or 186 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:19.960 a muzzle of some kind. And now I think dog 187 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:23.279 Man is actually more popular than Bigfoot on the internet. Uh, 188 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.399 And you've got all these other cryptids that people are 189 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.600 talking about seeing, you know, Mothman's everywhere. Now it's not 190 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:32.679 just a one time even a point plusnant. 191 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:37.720 Yeah, there's some a rake. Yeah, what the hell is 192 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:39.559 a rake? You know? And it's just kind of like, 193 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:42.440 you know, where did where did this all start? And 194 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.960 it's interesting because I think dog Man, I mean, it's 195 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.200 fairly recent in time, isn't that, Like from the nineteen eighties. Yeah, 196 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.440 like with the first twenty. So I mean, it's kind 197 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:58.000 of like there's no precedent for for these cryptids, and 198 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.320 you know, and you know who's going to know. Native 199 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.120 American people are going to know because they lived with 200 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.159 whatever is out in our forest or o natural environments 201 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.639 for the longest period of time. And I don't see 202 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.639 a description of something called dog man in Native American stories. 203 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:18.000 There's nothing like that. And so you know something that 204 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.399 I mean, I guess if the world was the world 205 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.240 of creativity and new cryptig you could just pop out 206 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:29.879 of the earth and become something. But somehow, me being 207 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.080 a scientist, I'm going to say it's unlikely to be 208 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:34.679 that way. 209 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.000 Whatever it comes to Native American folklore. That's I mean, 210 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.840 I would defer to you, you know a little something 211 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.720 about it. You wrote a book a while back, Giants, Cannibals, 212 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.440 and Monsters, all about bigfoot in Native American history. And 213 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.480 so what you're saying is, if I understand correctly, is 214 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:57.960 there isn't Native American folklore that involves a dog man 215 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:03.360 or a rake or a mothman or any of those things. 216 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.559 And not that I'm aware of. And I guess I 217 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.720 literally haven't read everything possible out there, but you think 218 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:13.320 it show up, you know, even passively. And so you know, 219 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:17.600 they wrote their stories are about their natural environment and 220 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.799 how to convey the importance of their natural environment to 221 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.879 the next generation. Of course, they had oral tradition and 222 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:33.360 stories that you read were then captured by ethnographers, you know, 223 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:39.440 in the late well late to early eighteen hundred some earlier, 224 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.399 back on these coast because Europeans arrived there sooner, and 225 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:49.080 so there's no reason let me just put it only 226 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:51.320 they just wrote down what they were told. There's not 227 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.000 any kind of well I don't believe this, so I'm 228 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.559 not going to include it. I'm just documenting what you're 229 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:02.159 telling us, right, And there's nothing that that's even remotely 230 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.519 like there's this thing. The only thing that has two 231 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.399 legs and walks up right is the bigfoot. You know. 232 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.879 They have other animals such as eagle, condor, you know, 233 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.159 hawk and stuff like that that sometimes take human form, 234 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.320 but there's still hawk, you know, there's still egle, there's 235 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.320 still that you know, bear talks, you know, but he's 236 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.879 still bear, you know kind of thing. And so there 237 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:31.480 isn't anything that that you know, to be fair dogs 238 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.639 in general. I mean they've been around a very very 239 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.720 long time. I mean, we have very old graves that 240 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.240 have dogs in them, so they've been domesticated, and so 241 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.440 I would think Native Americans would know what a dog 242 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:45.919 is and be able to say, well, this dog man 243 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:49.240 or this dog with two legs showed up and there's 244 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:52.840 nothing like that. And so when you think about it, 245 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:58.159 unless you have something that's a really good description of 246 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:02.399 what you're talking about that is much older than modern times, 247 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.840 you're hurting yourself because you're you're making something interesting. Well, 248 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:09.200 i mean, let me put it this way. If you're 249 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.440 interested in it, it's no big deal. But when the 250 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.279 Internet is overwhelmed with something that's obviously completely made up, 251 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:22.039 that what a gross use of your time to, you know, 252 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.519 study something you are never going to experience. 253 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.240 Well, how does the bigfoot folklore in Native American history 254 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.039 compare to our understanding of bigfoot in the research community. 255 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.279 Well, it's the same thing. 256 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.279 The folklore versus the reality. You know, are there differences? 257 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.679 Are there similarities? Are they describing the same thing? 258 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:46.639 They're describing the same thing. It's pretty ubiquitous across the 259 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:53.559 United States Alaska, Canada. There may be different behaviors sort 260 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.279 of associated with them. So like in the Yokic tribe, 261 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.159 he is a creator and a good guy and he 262 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.559 helps the tribes significantly versus other tribes sees an awful 263 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:13.360 monster cannibal who eats their children. And so did that 264 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:17.360 happen in reality? I mean it's pretty prevalent. I mean 265 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:21.159 there's a lot of cannibal stories associated with Bigfoot native culture. 266 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.039 So I suspect that it did once in a while 267 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.159 there and that's how it got. You know, this guy 268 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:31.559 eats our kids and eats things he should be. So 269 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:37.519 but the general description tall hair covered, throws rocks, you know, 270 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.559 beats trees, that kind of stuff is is typical of 271 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.279 what we think and so and I don't know, and 272 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.960 I certainly know that there are people who have described 273 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:54.960 modern day witnesses saying one was very very aggressive and 274 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.679 ran us out of the area, and this other one, oh, 275 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:01.399 the Bigfoot just you know, said hey, what are you doing? 276 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.200 You know kind of thing, And so there's there are 277 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.079 You would expect a living population to have different personalities 278 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:13.440 in different aspects of their territory, to behave when they 279 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.759 feel like they're threatened, and so I'm going to tribe 280 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.519 traditionally described a bigfoot as being hostile. That's I think 281 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.079 just that particular bigfoot is a butt heead, you know 282 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.359 kind of thing. And that's what I would expect in 283 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:33.759 a living biological animal, is that you're going to have 284 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.680 personality differences, just like you have in everything else. And 285 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:41.559 so yeah, there they are describing what we what we 286 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:42.839 call bigfoot as well. 287 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.160 So you're up in the Pacific Northwest, yes, I mean California. 288 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.160 How did you end up with the North American Wood 289 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:53.839 Conservancy way. 290 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:59.400 Down here, way down the well? I in twenty twelve. 291 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:05.640 I had known Alton Higgins and Darryl Kloyer and all 292 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.480 of them for very long time effected from the bfro O. 293 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.640 And so I was at speaking at one of the 294 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:19.440 Texas conferences and afterwards they were they were telling they 295 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.440 had been telling me this for years about this place 296 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.799 called Area X, and aria X is not some kind 297 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:28.839 of like crazy, you know, ominous place. It's it's they 298 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.119 had three research areas X, Y and Z, and Y 299 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.319 and Z ended up being duds, and so are X 300 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:39.839 became the place. And they were talking to me about 301 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:41.720 what was going on down there. And they say, hey, 302 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.000 we would really love for you to come down and 303 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:50.160 spend a week there with our members and tell us 304 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.119 what you really think is going on? You know, is 305 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.400 this stuff that we're saying really happening. And I said, 306 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:00.599 you know, well, Bob's got family in Texas, So I said, 307 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.119 when we'll just make it a family trip and go 308 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.440 spend a week and X and see his mom and 309 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:10.440 dad and sisters and brothers, and make it make it 310 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.680 a trip, you know. And so I'm now kind of 311 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.440 sort of sorry that we went to X before we 312 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.240 saw the family because we were we were really in 313 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.319 shape to well it's a long story, but essentially when 314 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.960 we went to X first, the first day was so boring. 315 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:36.039 It was made twenty twelve, you know text. You know 316 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.839 in Oklahoma. This is in Oklahoma. Everything is trying to 317 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.079 kill you. I mean, the spiders are the size of 318 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.880 my head. There's green brier that's trying to pull your 319 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:50.839 shoes off, there's hidden rocks, there's snakes everywhere. And I 320 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.200 always say it's a foreign service employee that I've been 321 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.559 on every bad road and on earth, and I'm not 322 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.519 afraid of a road. That road was the worst road 323 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.480 I I almost cried. I was like, I don't think 324 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.279 we're gonna get it back out of here. I say, 325 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.279 I think gravity's gonna carry us down where there's no 326 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.279 way we're gonna get out of here. And of course 327 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.960 Bob's an outstanding driver. So yeah, we got back out. 328 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:18.680 But then the second day, these the cabins that we 329 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.039 were out, and I'm gonna use the term cabin very 330 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:26.559 very loosely as four walls with a roof, but other 331 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.559 than that, it ain't much, you know, And I got 332 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:30.799 it one of these days I got to tell this 333 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.839 funny story. But I thought, now I'm gonna tell next. 334 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.559 I forget that the door of the one we were 335 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:43.799 in didn't really shut if so, because we are who 336 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.480 we are, we basically put a door stop up against it. 337 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.400 So if Bigfoot decided to come in the magic rock, 338 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.319 we called it the magic rock for a Lisa alert 339 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:59.000 us to something coming in the door, and I think nail. 340 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.960 I was like, God, dang man, talk about how it's 341 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.079 funny now, but you believe me, there are times when 342 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.720 I was down there where I was grateful for that 343 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:13.720 rock there. I sort of kept the door shut sort 344 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:17.960 of anyway. So so here we are the second day 345 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:21.720 and all the roofs had are tin or sheet metal, 346 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:27.119 and uh, something was throwing rocks and it was hitting 347 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.119 one roof. Everybody would run over there. Then it would 348 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.759 hit another roof on a different cabin. They'd run over there, 349 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.440 and so it's, uh, it was pretty pretty if you 350 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:38.759 think about it now, it's comical because it was like, man, 351 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.720 they're just having fun. We were like the television apparently, 352 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.279 and when we know they were rocks, they weren't hickory 353 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.559 nuts or anything like that. We were verifying that they 354 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:51.640 were rocks, and I did a little bit and then 355 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.599 I got this is silly, you know, to be running around. 356 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.640 You know, it's like you're gonna catch them or something. 357 00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.920 So anyway, they finally came back and we're sitting down. 358 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:05.440 It's broad daylight, you know, so very good, you know, viewing, 359 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.680 and there's you used to in an old days, being 360 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.640 able to drive in a like a round driveway to 361 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:18.559 each cabin with that's long past that time. You know. 362 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.000 Most of it is overgrown and grown back. And there 363 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.519 is this one place we call it the bottleneck because 364 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:29.079 it is practically the only place you can walk without 365 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.440 getting harms. You know it's grassy, but it's reasonable in 366 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.880 the sense of, you know, there's not hidden rocks, there's 367 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.599 none of that stuff. And so I was sitting we 368 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.039 were sitting in a semi circle, and there's five of us, 369 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.519 my husband, Bob Mark or Brian Ken and myself and 370 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.480 we're sitting in the semicircle and we started hearing something 371 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.400 walking and we had just assumed it was a fox 372 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.880 that we had been feeding, coming up to see if 373 00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.359 we had eight thing to eat, you know. And I'm 374 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.720 sitting in the that's looking right down the bottleneck, and 375 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.480 all of a sudden, there they are, and it was 376 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.839 two of them. There was a big one and a 377 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.319 little one, and by big, I don't mean like you know, huge, 378 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:16.359 I'm talking about a Canada gangly teenager size, and then 379 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:21.880 a small one like small I don't know, six years old, 380 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.640 seven year old type of size. And they're come and 381 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:30.079 ride at us, and they're walking along probably no more 382 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:32.759 than sixty feet if that is probably not even that 383 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.720 I know I measured it, but it's not on the 384 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.720 top of my head right this minute. But they're walking 385 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.200 along the bottom of this hillside, so not like a 386 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:46.200 mountain side, a hillside and like they're going to try 387 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:50.920 to get behind the shed of the cabin, and they're 388 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:52.720 doing this kind of back and forth where it was 389 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.480 clear the big one is trying to make the little 390 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.440 one not go where it's going, and she kng go color. 391 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:05.319 She can't get the little one to follow directions. You know, 392 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:07.960 it's like this keystone cop kind of thing where there 393 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:10.640 she's going like, no, let's go this way, and no, no, 394 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.720 I'm gonna go this way kind of thing. And I 395 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.440 jumped up and I said, there they are, and I 396 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.640 ran at them, and of course, you know, crazy lady 397 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.640 running at us, I don't you know, they bolt up 398 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:31.759 that hillside like they were on a bungeee court. They 399 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.279 just went straight up. And I knew I only had 400 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.519 seconds to get as much as I could in my mind, 401 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.519