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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 6: journalist and author Dan Zufanski. On September twelfth, two thousand
Speaker 6: and one, Michelle Harris went missing from a small town
Speaker 6: in upstate New York. She has never been found, and
Speaker 6: the mystery surrounding her disappearance remains. Four years after she
Speaker 6: went missing, her wealthy husband Cal Harris was arrested in
Speaker 6: charge with her murder, with neither a body nor a
Speaker 6: murder weapon. Cow was shockingly tried and convicted of her murder.
Speaker 6: Then new evidence surfaced. His conviction was overturned and a
Speaker 6: new trial granted. But once again he was convicted and
Speaker 6: sentenced at twenty five years to life in prison. That conviction, too,
Speaker 6: was overturned on appeal. The saga continued as Caw went
Speaker 6: on trial for the third time. This one ended in
Speaker 6: a mistrial. By the time Cal went on trial, the
Speaker 6: fourth time Michelle had been missing for nearly fifteen years.
Speaker 6: Defense investigator David M. Beers worked on the Cal Harris
Speaker 6: case from stuff to finish. His account, Rain of Injustice
Speaker 6: walks you through the details and events of the case
Speaker 6: never before revealed. It provides an inside view of the
Speaker 6: scandalous case, facts that you will not find elsewhere, including
Speaker 6: why he considers Cal's story a rain of Injustice. The
Speaker 6: book that we're featuring this evening is Rain of Injustice,
Speaker 6: The Cal Harris Story with my special guest journalist, author,
Speaker 6: and special investigator, David M.
Speaker 7: Beers. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much
Speaker 7: for agreeing to this interview. David M.
Speaker 8: Beers. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I've been looking
Speaker 8: forward to the interview.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much. Incredible tale. I had not known
Speaker 7: of this before. This is an amazing tale, Rain of Injustice.
Speaker 7: Let's go right as you do in this book. Here
Speaker 7: to Owego, New York and Cal Harris and the two
Speaker 7: automobile dealership city owns. And of course it's set in
Speaker 7: nine to eleven, two thousand and one, So tell us
Speaker 7: a little bit about Cal Harris, his background. Where Owego,
Speaker 7: New York is specifically tell us give us a little
Speaker 7: bit of background, as you do in this book.
Speaker 8: Okay Owego, New York is in Tioga County, New York,
Speaker 8: which is in south central New York, just above the
Speaker 8: Pennsylvania border, right between the cities of Binghamton to the
Speaker 8: east and Elmira to the west. Allego's just a little village,
Speaker 8: and Taga County itself is a rather small county population wise,
Speaker 8: only about fifty one thousand people. There are no cities,
Speaker 8: so the county seat is right in the little village
Speaker 8: of Oligo. It's kind of nestled right in along the
Speaker 8: north side of the Susquehanna River, just west of the
Speaker 8: village in the town of Tioga, another small township. Cal
Speaker 8: Harris and his older brother Kevin owned two car dealerships.
Speaker 8: Cal owned Royal Ford on the south side of the
Speaker 8: highway and his brother Kevin owned and operated Royal Chrysler
Speaker 8: to the north. But Cal also owned another Royal Chevrolet
Speaker 8: dealership up in Courtland, New York, which is about forty
Speaker 8: five minutes north of Oligo. They've been in business for
Speaker 8: several years. The Royal Auto Group was started by Cal's
Speaker 8: father Dwight Harris. He was a pretty popular entrepreneurial business
Speaker 8: tycoon in Tioga County, darting many business enterprises before going
Speaker 8: into the automobile business. And then when his sons, after
Speaker 8: they were educated in college or whatever, he groomed them
Speaker 8: into the automobile dealership business, and later they took over
Speaker 8: the day to day operations. So that kind of sets
Speaker 8: the stage for what Cal was. Cal was born and
Speaker 8: raised in a kind of an upper middle class home,
Speaker 8: went to high school in vest of New York. He's
Speaker 8: a very handsome young man, very talented athlete, became a
Speaker 8: star lacrosse player, and then he went on to college.
Speaker 8: I believe he played lacrosse in college as well. He
Speaker 8: studied business and economics, and then, like I said, he
Speaker 8: was groomed into the family automobile dealership. He was kind
Speaker 8: of thrust into the position a little prematurely after his
Speaker 8: father had a heart attack and he and he found
Speaker 8: himself supervising people who were his parents' age. So it
Speaker 8: was a little awkward for him, so he had to
Speaker 8: he had to learn the ropes rather quickly. His wife,
Speaker 8: Michelle Uh, she grew up in a kind of a
Speaker 8: lower middle class neighborhood just just west of Aligo in
Speaker 8: the little town of Tioga, UH. She was like four
Speaker 8: years younger than Cal. H. She went to Tiga High
Speaker 8: School and then after high school she went to Morrisville
Speaker 8: UH College in New York UH. And then when she
Speaker 8: when she finished her education, she went to work for
Speaker 8: the Royal Auto Group in Oligo. And it was there
Speaker 8: that that Cal met Michelle Uh and they hit it
Speaker 8: off right away. They was like love at first sight.
Speaker 8: She was gorgeous UH, kind of head turning, attractive, very personable,
Speaker 8: fun loving, and they hit it off immediately started dating,
Speaker 8: moved in together, and then within about four years they
Speaker 8: got married. I believe it was nineteen ninety and it
Speaker 8: was from a lakeside ceremony at a lake some lake
Speaker 8: property that Cal and his father had owned in the
Speaker 8: town of Spencer, several miles north of Ouigo. And then
Speaker 8: after they got married, Cal built Michelle a beautiful lakeside home,
Speaker 8: half million dollars half million dollar home on the lake,
Speaker 8: and it was in a really remote area. You couldn't
Speaker 8: even see their house from the road or the road
Speaker 8: from the house. And it was two hundred and fifty
Speaker 8: acres plus of just wilderness area, most of which was
Speaker 8: all densely wooded. There were a few open fields in
Speaker 8: the lake, of course, in a pond. UH. But they,
Speaker 8: you know, they spent a considerable amount of time, you know,
Speaker 8: entertaining family and friends, you know, UH snowmobiling, hay rides, swimming, fishing, hunting,
Speaker 8: riding ATVs uh and that that was an enjoyable part
Speaker 8: of their life. And then they uh along the way
Speaker 8: they had They had four children in a relatively short
Speaker 8: period of time. In fact, at the time that this
Speaker 8: that Michelle disappeared, their oldest child, Taylor, was only seven,
Speaker 8: and the youngest four, Tanner, was only eighteen months old.
Speaker 8: So you can see how closely they were in age
Speaker 8: at the time. So that kind of lays the groundwork
Speaker 8: for a little bit of history on on Cal and
Speaker 8: Michelle and how they met and started living together and
Speaker 8: then got married. And I guess I should also add that,
Speaker 8: you know, trouble started brewing in the marriage uh at
Speaker 8: some point in time, and it only got worse when
Speaker 8: Michelle discovered that Cal was having an affair. But on
Speaker 8: mandown'st to Cal, she Michelle was having an affair as well,
Speaker 8: and she had started seeing and dating a man and
Speaker 8: uh for like six months. Uh and onbeknownst to to
Speaker 8: Cal at the time, and she started going on weekend
Speaker 8: rendezvous with him in the Poconots. They were using pin
Speaker 8: number calling cards to call each other the other to
Speaker 8: keep their relationship secret. And then at some point her
Speaker 8: this boyfriend, uh, you know, he fell head over heels
Speaker 8: for Michelle and he packed his bags. He was from
Speaker 8: philadel Yeah, he packed his bags, left his girlfriend, his family,
Speaker 8: his job, and moved up to New York and found
Speaker 8: an apartment in a job to be near Michelle, with
Speaker 8: expectations of getting married, even though that wasn't He didn't
Speaker 8: have this Michelle did not have the same expectations. So anyway,
Speaker 8: that kind of sets the stage a little background.
Speaker 7: Ah, what was the living arrangement and what was the
Speaker 7: in terms of the divorce that they you know, that
Speaker 7: was imminent, what was where was the state of proceedings
Speaker 7: at that point? Tell us the living conditions and where
Speaker 7: they were at. He knew about she had a job
Speaker 7: as well at this waitress newly new job at this
Speaker 7: as a waitress at this place called Lefties, and also
Speaker 7: talk about the breast implant implants that she had recently
Speaker 7: gotten as well.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we're trying to think that. I think it was
Speaker 8: January of two thousand and one that Michelle filed for divorce.
Speaker 8: Cal did not take it well. There were a lot
Speaker 8: of heated arguments which got rather nasty at times, according
Speaker 8: to you know, some witnesses who overheard those arguments, but
Speaker 8: none of the witnesses that had ever noticed anything physical.
Speaker 8: It was all you know, verbal altercations. In fact, one
Speaker 8: of their adult babysitters, you know, described some of the
Speaker 8: arguments and said that, you know, Michelle could hold her
Speaker 8: own and she could be as verbally abusive to Cal
Speaker 8: as he was to her, and other people you know
Speaker 8: said similar things. But at some point in time, actually
Speaker 8: I think it was early March or April two thousand
Speaker 8: and one, Shell decided to take a job as a
Speaker 8: waitress at a somewhat lower class bar restaurant down in Waverley,
Speaker 8: New York, which is probably a twenty minute drive for
Speaker 8: her to get to work, and she was telling family
Speaker 8: and friends that the reason she took the job was
Speaker 8: because Cal had cut her off financially, which which turned
Speaker 8: out to be not true. You know, the records later
Speaker 8: indicated that Cal was paying her like four hundred dollars
Speaker 8: a week, plus he was still giving her a dealership
Speaker 8: car to use free free gas anytime she needed at
Speaker 8: the dealership. And we later we later learned that the
Speaker 8: real reason she took the job wasn't because she needed
Speaker 8: the money. It was because she didn't want to go home.
Speaker 8: She didn't want to be home and argue with Cal,
Speaker 8: so she wanted to distance herself from him, plus had
Speaker 8: more time to socialize with her new boyfriend.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 8: And then somewhere along the line, I'm not sure the
Speaker 8: exact timeframe, but but after she'd already had four children,
Speaker 8: she she went out and had a breasting plant augmentation
Speaker 8: job done. And according to some witnesses I talked to,
Speaker 8: you know, she went from a from an A cup
Speaker 8: to a C cup And then they used to make
Speaker 8: fun of her a little bit in conversation. But probably
Speaker 8: the most bizarre thing about that was that after she
Speaker 8: did that, it became kind of the talk of the
Speaker 8: town and U she was actually flaunting it and uh
Speaker 8: uh And at times she would she would flash her
Speaker 8: breasts in front of other men, even in public, uh,
Speaker 8: at the dealerships or in a bar and Uh. In fact,
Speaker 8: one one witness I talked to UH had actually seen
Speaker 8: her do it in front of a guy at at
Speaker 8: a bar down in Waverley. After after she got out
Speaker 8: of work and went to this bar. She you know,
Speaker 8: she flashed her chest and he remembered scolding her for that,
Speaker 8: telling her that she was just encouraging these creeps. But
Speaker 8: that didn't stop her. Uh. And in fact, it went
Speaker 8: as far as you know, some of these men that
Speaker 8: she had flashed her breast to it also asked her
Speaker 8: if they could feel what they were like because they
Speaker 8: never felt implants before, and she let him do it.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 8: And I just thought that was pretty bizarre. But Michelle
Speaker 8: was just very trusting, and I think she saw all
Speaker 8: of this as just a fun, loving way of getting attention,
Speaker 8: and I don't think she realized that she was making
Speaker 8: herself vulnerable to what these guys might have had in mind.
Speaker 7: Now, tell us who Barb Thayer is and her role
Speaker 7: in the story so far, not to get.
Speaker 8: Anything away, Bob, Yeah, Barb Fair was Calum Michelle's adult babysitter.
Speaker 8: Barb Fair was probably in her early mid fifties, a
Speaker 8: sweet little lady who gray hair. I met her and
Speaker 8: interviewed her early in the investigation, and that's when I
Speaker 8: learned about the arguments that she'd overheard and how they.
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Speaker 8: To nasty and vulgar at times, and she she'd worked
Speaker 8: for Calum Michelle for for several years, babysitting and doing
Speaker 8: a house cleaning, laundry, that type of thing. And uh,
Speaker 8: it was Barb there who who first discovered Michelle's van
Speaker 8: at the end of the Harris driveway on the morning
Speaker 8: that she was reported missing. Backing up just a little
Speaker 8: bit the night before, cal had come home from work
Speaker 8: around six point thirty from his office in Courtland. He
Speaker 8: usually works in Courtland on Tuesdays, and he'd called Barb
Speaker 8: ahead a time around five point thirty, said, I'm wrapped
Speaker 8: up here. I'll be home in about an hour, and
Speaker 8: he was, and as soon as he got home, she left,
Speaker 8: and Cal, you know, played with the kids for a while,
Speaker 8: but it was a school night, so we put in
Speaker 8: the bed about eight o'clock, and then he worked in
Speaker 8: his office for a while and then went to bed
Speaker 8: himself around ten ten thirty. And then when he got
Speaker 8: up in the morning, he showered and got dressed for work,
Speaker 8: and he went downstairs, assuming that Michelle would be there,
Speaker 8: you know, getting the kids up and ready for school,
Speaker 8: because prior to that you had mentioned what the living
Speaker 8: arrangements were. They were still living in the same marital
Speaker 8: home while the divorce was pending. But Michelle was sleeping
Speaker 8: in the family room downstairs and Cal was sleeping in
Speaker 8: the bedroom upstairs. So during that period of time, you know,
Speaker 8: when Michelle came home from work, she would sleep in
Speaker 8: the family room, but then she would get up and
Speaker 8: take care of her mother responsibilities regarding the children, getting
Speaker 8: them ready for school. But when Cale went down the
Speaker 8: stairs that morning on the morning of the twelve, she
Speaker 8: wasn't there, and and he peeked out in the garage
Speaker 8: and her van was not there, so at that time
Speaker 8: he knew she had a boyfriend and she He just
Speaker 8: assumed that she was still with him and running late.
Speaker 8: But because he wanted to stay on schedule and get
Speaker 8: to work on time and get the kids to school
Speaker 8: on time, he needed some help, so he called Barb Thayer.
Speaker 8: She wasn't scheduled to come over till later, but anyway,
Speaker 8: he called Barb Theayre like at seven in the morning
Speaker 8: and explained that Michelle hadn't come home. So Fayer agreed
Speaker 8: to come over and give them a hand. So a
Speaker 8: few minutes later, she leaves her house, comes over, and
Speaker 8: when she arrives at the end of the Harris driveway,
Speaker 8: which I mentioned earlier you can't see from the house
Speaker 8: because it's the driveways like a quarter quarter mile long. Anyway,
Speaker 8: she stops. Michelle's van parked right in the nose of
Speaker 8: the driveway, so she stops, gets out, looks through Michelle's van.
Speaker 8: The door was on lock, the key was in the ignition,
Speaker 8: so she opens up the driver's door, looks around, and
Speaker 8: then she goes in the back, lifts up the tailgate,
Speaker 8: looks around. No sign of Michelle, so she gets back
Speaker 8: in the car and drives into the house, walks in
Speaker 8: and she's Cal. He's dressed ready for work, and she said,
Speaker 8: you know, is Michelle Cal? She says, as Michelle home
Speaker 8: and tell says, no, I told you she didn't come home.
Speaker 8: He says, well, I just saw her van out the
Speaker 8: end of the driveway. So they both start speculating as
Speaker 8: to what might have happened. You know, did she uh
Speaker 8: stop there and and and park the car and go
Speaker 8: out with somebody else, or did she just uh wander
Speaker 8: off that They really didn't know, so anyway, finally Cal says, well,
Speaker 8: we better go get it. You better go get her van.
Speaker 8: So he drives Barbed Player out to the end of
Speaker 8: the driveway. They both looked through the van again, and
Speaker 8: then Barbedlayer drives Michelle's van back into the house and
Speaker 8: parks it in the garage where she normally would And
Speaker 8: then they're they're looking through the van to look for
Speaker 8: the kids book bags and that type of thing to
Speaker 8: get him ready for school. And you know, Cal makes
Speaker 8: the comment of how messy the van looked, and he
Speaker 8: said that, you know, we better get this down to
Speaker 8: the dealership where I can get it serviced, which is overdue,
Speaker 8: and and and and clean it out. It's a mess.
Speaker 8: At the time, barbed their I thought that was a
Speaker 8: little unusual under the circumstances, right, But but they didn't
Speaker 8: do that. They didn't do that.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 8: Cal took the three oldest kids uh in his truck
Speaker 8: and and took him to a weego and got him
Speaker 8: to school, and then he went to work at the dealership.
Speaker 8: They're only a couple of minutes apart. Uh and and
Speaker 8: Barb Thayer stayed where the youngest went at home. And
Speaker 8: then so in the meantime, Barb Fair gets a telephone
Speaker 8: call from Michelle's best friend, Nicky Nicky Verdict looking for Michelle. Well, Uh,
Speaker 8: barb Fair explains the whole story and and and Nicky
Speaker 8: said that, well, she's supposed to have an appointment with
Speaker 8: their attorney today. I better call him. So she did.
Speaker 8: And then Uh the attorney calls the state police and
Speaker 8: and and sets up a conference call between himself and
Speaker 8: Nicky Burdick and the state police. And they explained the situation,
Speaker 8: and the attorney requested that they start a missing person case,
Speaker 8: which they did. They launched it within an hour, which
Speaker 8: is in itself, it's pretty unusual. You know, most people
Speaker 8: are told, you know, you got to wait twenty four hours. Well,
Speaker 8: they didn't wait twenty four hours. They felt something was
Speaker 8: wrong and they started their investigation right away. So less
Speaker 8: than an hour later, you know, two state police investigators
Speaker 8: are walking into Cal's office at his dealership to ask
Speaker 8: him some questions about about Michelle and what he could
Speaker 8: tell him, and he he cooperated with him fully talked
Speaker 8: to them for a length of time, and then he
Speaker 8: escorted them out to his house, showed him where Michelle's
Speaker 8: van was parked, and then it took him into the
Speaker 8: house and they looked through the van and then they uh,
Speaker 8: I need to get back to work, uh, And he
Speaker 8: left them there to do their thing, and in which
Speaker 8: they did, and they towed Michelle's van back into the
Speaker 8: state police barracks so they could take a closer look, uh.
Speaker 8: And then they went back uh and interviewed Cal some
Speaker 8: more so that that kind of gives you a rough
Speaker 8: synopsis of of what what took place and and how
Speaker 8: was how it was determined that uh, Michelle was missing.
Speaker 7: Now you talk about uh Stan Draisen, the divorce divorce lawyer,
Speaker 7: and so he reached out to state police.
Speaker 8: You said, now, who did he need to No, no, no, no,
Speaker 8: not stanras Stan Draisen was Cal's attorney. Uh, Michelle Michelle's
Speaker 8: attorney was Robert Miller, right part from yes he so
Speaker 8: so just yeah, just so we can clarify that. Yeah,
Speaker 8: Robert Miller had an office down in Waverley, and she
Speaker 8: had she had retained him, uh to work on the divorce.
Speaker 8: So he was the one that was called when it
Speaker 8: was discovered that Michelle was missing, and he was the
Speaker 8: one that called the state police.
Speaker 7: Now how did state police proceed with this with her disappearance?
Speaker 8: Like I said, they proceeded rather quickly, less than an hour.
Speaker 8: The investigators were at Cal's office and then up to
Speaker 8: his house and then he left them up there to
Speaker 8: do whatever they felt they needed to do. He actually
Speaker 8: gave them a written consent to search his house and
Speaker 8: his surrounding property, his truck, Michelle's van, whatever they needed.
Speaker 8: He even turned over phone records, business records, home computer.
Speaker 8: There was a call on the answering machine that he
Speaker 8: saved for them, thinking it might be helpful, and so
Speaker 8: he was very cooperative. But after he went back to
Speaker 8: work that day, they stayed there. The State police stayed
Speaker 8: there and were looking through the house and around the property,
Speaker 8: and then they started calling in for help to do
Speaker 8: more thorough search. They called the New York State Forest Rangers,
Speaker 8: they called for the helicopter, they called for divers, they
Speaker 8: called for cadaver dogs. So there was a whole contingent
Speaker 8: of search efforts put in place to try to find Michelle.
Speaker 8: But it didn't all happen that first day. They were
Speaker 8: actually there from I'm going to say late morning until
Speaker 8: dinner time looking for Michelle, maybe six hours, and they
Speaker 8: didn't find anything at all. So they packed up and left,
Speaker 8: and then Cal found out that they were done, so
Speaker 8: he picked up, picked up the kids, and he'd originally
Speaker 8: take him to dinner, but then he took him home
Speaker 8: and the state police were gone, so he remained at
Speaker 8: home that evening and a couple of family members showed
Speaker 8: up to offer their support. And but the next day
Speaker 8: the police were back then and they started putting together
Speaker 8: this this massive search detail, bringing in all those entities
Speaker 8: that I just just mentioned, and then they spent the
Speaker 8: next uh It eventually led to them getting a search warrant. Originally,
Speaker 8: they were working under the written consent that Cal had
Speaker 8: given them. But then one of the forensic investigators were
Speaker 8: actually there's a team of two. They went in to
Speaker 8: take a little closer look inside the house and they
Speaker 8: and while they were there, they found some specs of blood,
Speaker 8: tiny specs of blood on the garage, initially on the
Speaker 8: on the wall in the garage and on the entryway
Speaker 8: to the kitchen from the garage. So they halted their
Speaker 8: their assessment and applied for a search warrant, which which
Speaker 8: is exactly what should have been done. So everybody cleared
Speaker 8: out and they they posted sentries at the door to
Speaker 8: preserve the scene.
Speaker 9: And.
Speaker 8: And the next day they were back with a full
Speaker 8: contingent looking for for further evidence. And it was then
Speaker 8: when they found in the next couple of days they
Speaker 8: found some additional blood on the garage floor, but it
Speaker 8: was still very very tiny, a centimeter or less at most,
Speaker 8: so you know, about eighth of an inch, really tiny.
Speaker 8: But the interesting thing was they, uh, they they took
Speaker 8: some random samples and field tested them, uh, and they
Speaker 8: came back positive for blood. Even though a field test
Speaker 8: is only positive for blood period it's not it could
Speaker 8: be it doesn't. It's not species specific, so it could
Speaker 8: be animal blood or human blood, so you won't know
Speaker 8: further until you test it further. But anyway, those early
Speaker 8: presumptive tests, they never photographed the areas that were tested.
Speaker 8: They never documented it, uh, which which was very unfortunate
Speaker 8: and it was kind of a violation of crime scene protocol.
Speaker 8: But but the interesting thing was they they waited it
Speaker 8: was like four days after Michelle went missing before they
Speaker 8: started to photograph the blood well, which which was very
Speaker 8: detrimental because the whole the whole issue that came up
Speaker 8: later was the uh it's not only the volume of
Speaker 8: blood was small, but the but the age of the
Speaker 8: blood that that became crucial because there was there wasn't
Speaker 8: a sufficient volume there to suggest that somebody had been
Speaker 8: seriously injured or killed and and that so now the
Speaker 8: age of the blood becomes important. And and they were
Speaker 8: not really able to do that, uh, to age the blood,
Speaker 8: uh because it was dry, it wasn't fresh, so there
Speaker 8: was no way to determine how old the blood was.
Speaker 8: So uh, an innocent explanation easily presented itself, but they
Speaker 8: they kind of ignored that and uh, you know, and
Speaker 8: proceeded as if that was evidence of of a crime.
Speaker 7: Now at the same time you write that he is
Speaker 7: not charged despite their suspicions and their beliefs, and he
Speaker 7: hires us I. As you mentioned, Stan Dresen is his attorney,
Speaker 7: and cal also got Joseph P. Cowley. Yes, Now tell
Speaker 7: me about Joseph P. Colly and your relationship to him
Speaker 7: and how you got involved in this case.
Speaker 8: Okay. I Prior to this case, I had an ongoing
Speaker 8: working relationship with attorney Joe Colly for for several years.
Speaker 8: I'd been doing defense work for him for several years.
Speaker 8: He was very good at what he did. He was
Speaker 8: a very highly respected defense attorney in neighboring bloom County,
Speaker 8: New York. And when when the police started questioning cal
Speaker 8: More and more and more, you know, he was keeping
Speaker 8: his business attorney advised of what was going on. And
Speaker 8: then it reached a point where where they finally asked
Speaker 8: him to to take a polygraph exam. And initially he
Speaker 8: responded right away, yeah, I'd be glad to, but he said,
Speaker 8: my attorney, you know, you know, wanted me to let
Speaker 8: him know if there are any legal issues came up.
Speaker 8: So he called it his attorney, Stan Drayson at the time,
Speaker 8: and Stan said no, I don't want you. You know,
Speaker 8: cal'sman cooperative with you for three days, I don't want
Speaker 8: you to question him anymore, and there will be no polygraph.
Speaker 8: So that was the end of it. But because of that,
Speaker 8: Stan Dreysen knew that they were zeroing in on Cal,
Speaker 8: so he recommended that he consult with a criminal defense attorney,
Speaker 8: which and Dason was not, so he was the one
Speaker 8: that recommended Joe Colly.
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Speaker 8: He terms and Conditions eighteen plus. So Cal and his
Speaker 8: dad went to consult with Joe callyh And and Joe
Speaker 8: called me right away. He says, H, you know, I'd
Speaker 8: like you to be involved in this.
Speaker 7: UH.
Speaker 8: So I went in and met with him, with Joe
Speaker 8: and Cal and his dad, and then I was retained
Speaker 8: on the spot and UH, which which is unusual because
Speaker 8: ordinarily I don't get involved in a case unless the
Speaker 8: defendant has already been charged. But in this case it was.
Speaker 8: It was still just a missing person case, but because
Speaker 8: of the suspicion UH that Cal was involved, they wanted
Speaker 8: to get a jump on the investigation to find out
Speaker 8: what we could learn. So that's how I got involved
Speaker 8: and started UH to work on the case. Even though
Speaker 8: I wasn't privy to anything the police were doing, because
Speaker 8: he hadn't been charged with anything, so therefore there was
Speaker 8: no discovering material to give me some guidance as to
Speaker 8: what had already been done. So for the most part,
Speaker 8: I was working blind.
Speaker 7: Then you say working blind, But however, tell us about
Speaker 7: your prior background with the State Police and also what
Speaker 7: some of those prior relationships meant in terms of you
Speaker 7: had friends that were involved in this, so at least
Speaker 7: you understood. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, Well, my training and experience came from the
Speaker 8: New York State Police. I worked as a uniform trooper,
Speaker 8: became pretty good at that. I later became a police instructor.
Speaker 8: I put together helped to put together a highway drug
Speaker 8: and addiction program, and then I helped to teach it
Speaker 8: stay wide. And then later I was promoted to investigator
Speaker 8: and I worked in the unit for four years, and
Speaker 8: then I goes transferred into the forensic Identification unit doing
Speaker 8: crime scene investigation, so I received additional training there. Later
Speaker 8: I worked in the violent felony warrant squad and so
Speaker 8: I had a lot of experience, so I knew how
Speaker 8: the police operated. I knew how they did things. I
Speaker 8: knew how they conduct major case investigations with lead desks,
Speaker 8: and so I had a pretty good working knowledge of
Speaker 8: what they were doing and why they were doing it.
Speaker 8: But I just wasn't privy in this case as to
Speaker 8: what the results were because they were under no obligation
Speaker 8: at that stage to turn over anything that they had learned.
Speaker 8: But I knew what they were doing, I just didn't
Speaker 8: know what they were finding and what the results were.
Speaker 8: So I had to rely on what Cal could tell me,
Speaker 8: maybe a snippet or two from the newspaper her. But
Speaker 8: but but then I so I had to start pretty
Speaker 8: much from scratch, and you know, one of the first
Speaker 8: things I did was was a visit the so called
Speaker 8: crime scene, which I did. You know, Cal was very cooperative,
Speaker 8: you know, and he spent as much time with me
Speaker 8: as I as I wanted. And then you know, he
Speaker 8: introduced me to Bart there and I talked with her,
Speaker 8: and then I went and talked to family and friends
Speaker 8: and co workers, just trying to get heads up on
Speaker 8: what the state police might be might be doing. So
Speaker 8: that that's kind of it. Is there something more that
Speaker 8: you want me to include or.
Speaker 7: Well, you mentioned about Stan Dresen and I don't know
Speaker 7: the chronological order, but when does Drayson have a conversation
Speaker 7: with Susan mulvey and tell our audience who she is
Speaker 7: and a little bit about her.
Speaker 8: Background as you found Yeah, okay, the lead investigator. We
Speaker 8: learned very early on who the lead investigator was. It
Speaker 8: was a senior investigator by the name of Susan Malby.
Speaker 8: I knew who she was. I'd never worked with her personally,
Speaker 8: but you know, we knew each other from being on
Speaker 8: a job together. She came on. She came on the
Speaker 8: State Police about a year after I did. I came
Speaker 8: on and I graduated from the State Police Academy in
Speaker 8: nineteen seventy eight. I think she came in the in
Speaker 8: the class right after that in seventy nine. So I
Speaker 8: knew she was working on the Cal Harris case. And
Speaker 8: I found out from Stan Draisen when we met in
Speaker 8: Joe Cawley's office and he described, you know, Sue Malby
Speaker 8: coming into his office I'm going to say about two
Speaker 8: days after Shell was reported missing, and it looked him
Speaker 8: right in the eye and said, you know, I know
Speaker 8: Cal killed her and I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 8: And at that stage I believe at that stage they
Speaker 8: hadn't even found the blood yet, So it became pretty
Speaker 8: obvious to me what what their what their focus was,
Speaker 8: and that Cal was Cal was in their crosshairs. He
Speaker 8: was their number one suspect. And it was very premature
Speaker 8: to say that. But uh, but that's what she said,
Speaker 8: according to to Dresen So uh. And then as you
Speaker 8: mentioned in your in your lead end that you know,
Speaker 8: Michelle went missing in two thousand and one, but but
Speaker 8: Cal wasn't indicted until four years later in two thousand
Speaker 8: and five. But in the interim they didn't find anything new.
Speaker 8: I mean, they had those few specs of blood in
Speaker 8: the garage and in the entry way that h some
Speaker 8: of which matched the DNA profile of Michelle. Uh, But
Speaker 8: like I said, the volume of the blood was was
Speaker 8: tiny and the age of the blood was inconclusive. But
Speaker 8: despite that, four years later, not having found Michelle or
Speaker 8: a murder weapon or anything further, they decided to go
Speaker 8: ahead and uh indict him if they did so. Once
Speaker 8: he was indicted and arrested and arraigned, a few weeks later,
Speaker 8: we started getting discovery material from logistic attorney Gerald Keene.
Speaker 8: So that was our first glimpse at what the State
Speaker 8: Police were doing, who they were interviewing, and what the
Speaker 8: people were saying. But while we were waiting, actually while
Speaker 8: we were waiting for the discovery material to come in,
Speaker 8: you know, Cal had been released on bail, so he
Speaker 8: was free for us to meet with him and you know,
Speaker 8: prepare our defense. So during one of my meetings with Cal,
Speaker 8: he was asking me, you know, he knew my background
Speaker 8: was with the State Police, so he was asking me
Speaker 8: if I knew any of the investigators working the case,
Speaker 8: specifically Sue mob So so I started telling him, But
Speaker 8: I knew about her. You know, she had come from
Speaker 8: a police family. Her father had once been the sheriff
Speaker 8: of neighboring Broom County, New York, back in the mid
Speaker 8: to late seventies, but he'd lost his bid for sheriff
Speaker 8: and that so that that's what prompted Cal. Uh when
Speaker 8: when he when he found out that Sue Malby's maiden
Speaker 8: name was Andrews and that she was the daughter of
Speaker 8: John Andrews, he he kind of went berserk.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 8: I still remember him standing up. He got red faced
Speaker 8: and fire in his eyes. He said, he said, Uh,
Speaker 8: John Andrews is Malby's father he was living and uh
Speaker 8: so I knew. I kind of hit a nerve there,
Speaker 8: so he and I said, yeah, I said, uh so,
Speaker 8: I'm so, I said, I'm assuming you uh you you
Speaker 8: knew he was the sheriff of Broome County. Yeah, I
Speaker 8: knew that, but I didn't know that Maulby was his daughter.
Speaker 8: You know, this is crazy, you know, he said, so.
Speaker 8: Uh you know, he got right on the phone to
Speaker 8: Joe Colly and uh Joe wasn't available at the time,
Speaker 8: so we talked some more, and so I filled them
Speaker 8: in on on what I knew who about movie and
Speaker 8: her dad, and that just made him more angry that
Speaker 8: he couldn't understand why she she could be involved in
Speaker 8: this case. So eventually we uh uh you know, spoke
Speaker 8: spoke to Joe kuy about it, and uh but, like
Speaker 8: I said, we were already four years into this, he'd
Speaker 8: already been indicted, arrested. Uh So, in any conflict that
Speaker 8: there was, uh bring bringing it to the attention of
Speaker 8: the disc attorney or or state police administration. We felt
Speaker 8: that it would just fall on deaf ears because the
Speaker 8: bell had already been rung. So so we decided not
Speaker 8: to uh, make an issue of that at the time,
Speaker 8: but but we wanted to uh closely monitor, you know, her,
Speaker 8: her involvement and go back and look at it, even
Speaker 8: right from the beginning and up to the current status
Speaker 8: of the investigation. And uh then eventually there came a
Speaker 8: time when I was so disturbed at some of the
Speaker 8: things I was finding regarding Sue Moby that I decided
Speaker 8: to take a closer look at her in that regard.
Speaker 8: I reached out to a couple of my trusted colleagues
Speaker 8: who had since retired from the State Police, and they
Speaker 8: reminded me of a case she had worked on about
Speaker 8: back in ninety six that resulted in her being kind
Speaker 8: of admonished by the Court of Claims in a lawsuit
Speaker 8: that filed against her for coercing the confession out of
Speaker 8: a juvenile and she was admonished rather severely. But we
Speaker 8: didn't know any of that until until I started doing
Speaker 8: the research, and I actually got a copy of the
Speaker 8: Court of Claims, the original complaint and the decision, and
Speaker 8: I wrote that in the book the results of that,
Speaker 8: and so that was very disturbing that what she did
Speaker 8: to that young man and then for whatever reason, she
Speaker 8: was never disciplined by the state Police. In fact, it
Speaker 8: was just the opposite. They actually promoted her and gave
Speaker 8: her a new position as a senior investigator down in
Speaker 8: the Lego. And then a short time later the cal
Speaker 8: Harris case came along.
Speaker 7: You also write about very interestingly doctor Henry Lee and
Speaker 7: his role on this tell us with this who they
Speaker 7: chose and this person's of O. J. Simpson saying, but
Speaker 7: tell us why he was hired and what he was
Speaker 7: maintaining on behalf of the prosecution. Regarding the blood.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, doctor Henry Lee is kind of a nationally
Speaker 8: renowned expert on in forensic blood interpretation or and analysis.
Speaker 8: So they they consulted with him several times. They took
Speaker 8: some of their their photographs and their physical evidence and
Speaker 8: to his lab up in Connecticut and had him look
Speaker 8: at it in hopes of him being able to say
Speaker 8: that this was a crime scene or that there this
Speaker 8: was evidence of an assault, and if he could say
Speaker 8: anything about the age of the blood with the volume
Speaker 8: of the blood, and and doctor Lee never never did
Speaker 8: a report, so we were kind of at a loss
Speaker 8: as to what he was going to say when he testified.
Speaker 8: But when he finally did testify. Uh actually before the
Speaker 8: first trial. Uh. Uh, his testimony was kind of taken
Speaker 8: out of order because he had a scheduling conflict, so
Speaker 8: they had to videotape his testimony early and then and
Speaker 8: then present that to the court later. But during that testimony,
Speaker 8: you know, probably the most critical thing that he said
Speaker 8: was that, uh, in his opinion, based on his experience,
Speaker 8: he felt that the age of the blood was within
Speaker 8: a couple of days. And and uh, you know, we
Speaker 8: argued very aggressively that there was really no scientific way
Speaker 8: to determine that. Uh, and there's not. But but he
Speaker 8: stuck with that with that testimony. Later on, Uh, the
Speaker 8: court ruled against him. Instead, he couldn't do that, and
Speaker 8: so any any sub squint testimony, uh, he would not
Speaker 8: be able to say with any reasonable reasonable degree of
Speaker 8: scientific certainty that it was a couple of days.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 8: So he was he was prevented from testifying about that
Speaker 8: in the future trials.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 8: But but probably one of the more troubling things with
Speaker 8: doctor Lee was that we discovered later was you know,
Speaker 8: we we found out that about a year and a
Speaker 8: half before the trial, the first trial, Uh, doctor Lee
Speaker 8: held a strategy meeting in his lab up in Connecticut,
Speaker 8: which was attended by senior members of the state police
Speaker 8: and that disc attorney of course, doctor Lee himself. And
Speaker 8: what we do, what we didn't know until much later,
Speaker 8: was that a national news magazine had come in and
Speaker 8: and videotaped that meeting, which which we thought was pretty
Speaker 8: pretty bizarre. You know, how they even knew about it
Speaker 8: is hard to imagine. Somebody had to have called them,
Speaker 8: and why they were allowed to come in during a
Speaker 8: pre trial strategy meeting is is really unbelievable. But anyway,
Speaker 8: they did it, and they went in and they videotaped
Speaker 8: this this discussion, and of course, after Cal was convicted
Speaker 8: the first time segments of that video were presented on
Speaker 8: forty eight hours. But when when the when the defense
Speaker 8: team reviewed that footage on the on the broadcast version,
Speaker 8: it was later determined that a lot of it had
Speaker 8: been obviously edited out, and and Cal's new attorney at
Speaker 8: that time, Bruce Barquette, who came into the picture before
Speaker 8: the third trial, he wanted to h get all of
Speaker 8: the raw footage, so he made application for it. It
Speaker 8: was originally denied, he appealed it and and eventually the
Speaker 8: CBS had to turn it over. And uh when we
Speaker 8: looked at the footage, the most troubling part was when
Speaker 8: uh uh dis Attorney Gerald Keene and uh uh is
Speaker 8: talking with doctor Lee and he and he says that
Speaker 8: the photographs that the state police took of the blood
Speaker 8: had been altered and and and then Moby is heard
Speaker 8: trying to clarify it by saying, oh, they were just corrected, uh,
Speaker 8: which you know, either either of which would be inappropriate.
Speaker 8: Uh and uh so that that was really really troubling
Speaker 8: and and uh and and you could hear that on
Speaker 8: a couple of occasions during that during that video segment.
Speaker 8: And then Keene is actually, i believe, asked asking doctor
Speaker 8: Lee if if the blood could have come from a
Speaker 8: cut hand, and doctor Lee said, yeah, it could come
Speaker 8: from a cut hand.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 8: But but Keen never tells him that that he had
Speaker 8: information in the in the divorce papers that showed that
Speaker 8: that was claiming that Michelle had cut her hand in
Speaker 8: an incident with cal back in March of two thousand
Speaker 8: and one. And it happened to be right out in
Speaker 8: the driveway. But at least at least during that video segment,
Speaker 8: you know, Keene never told me about that. So it
Speaker 8: was it was kind of troubling for us that they
Speaker 8: were they were pursuing to get doctor Lee to to
Speaker 8: testify that the blood was much more recent than than
Speaker 8: it appeared. And one of the other things that was
Speaker 8: pretty significant was that, you know, we had our own blood,
Speaker 8: our own photograph expert look at the photographs that they
Speaker 8: did have, and he he told us that they had
Speaker 8: actually augmented the uh, the red tone by by turning
Speaker 8: up the red color by some twenty points whatever whatever
Speaker 8: that means, so that it would appear it would appear
Speaker 8: redder than it actually was and therefore making it look
Speaker 8: more recent than it was. So uh and then that
Speaker 8: then the troubling part too was that you know, uh,
Speaker 8: doctor Lee knew that the photographs had been altered, but
Speaker 8: yet he still uses them in his assessment. Before offering
Speaker 8: his testimony, he.
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Speaker 7: on behalf of Cal Harris. You go through in this
Speaker 7: book in incredible detail of this journey. We follow along
Speaker 7: with you to go through and first start with what
Speaker 7: you say and claim is the police would been normal
Speaker 7: procedure to follow up completely on every possible suspect, decides
Speaker 7: Cal Harris. So you went to talk to people like
Speaker 7: Brian Early, tell us about this journey, about this investigation,
Speaker 7: and how you eventually get to the point where you
Speaker 7: think you have some very very viable suspects rather than
Speaker 7: cal Harris.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's of course that that evolved over a long
Speaker 8: period of time and before before the first trial, the
Speaker 8: defense focus, at least for me, was on Brian Early,
Speaker 8: because he was the last person to see Michelle alive,
Speaker 8: at least reportedly at the time, he had an intimate
Speaker 8: relationship with her. He had, you know, moved up all
Speaker 8: of his belongings to from Philadelphia to New York in
Speaker 8: anticipation of a relationship with Michelle. He had loaned her
Speaker 8: five thousand dollars to help her make a down payment
Speaker 8: on a home that he at some point in time
Speaker 8: expected to be living in with her. So as part
Speaker 8: of the elimination process, it was my opinion that they
Speaker 8: really took shortcuts and abbreviated what they really should have
Speaker 8: been done, probably most importantly when they found out that
Speaker 8: from Brian Early that Michelle was at his house that
Speaker 8: night after work, and then it was only his word
Speaker 8: that she left his house when he said she did.
Speaker 8: But yet they never did any forensic work of Brian
Speaker 8: Arley's apartment, his car, his person, or the hunting property
Speaker 8: that him and his cousins hunted on just over the
Speaker 8: Pennsylvania border from New York. They went out there and
Speaker 8: kind of did a look around, but they never even
Speaker 8: took any photographs, and Brian Early told them that he
Speaker 8: had her out there, so they really dropped the ball
Speaker 8: as far as I'm concerned. And by not doing that,
Speaker 8: because Michelle had personal belongings at Brian Early's apartment. She
Speaker 8: had stayed there overnight on occasion, so that was really
Speaker 8: not the best way to try to eliminate someone. And
Speaker 8: then she also had a short intimate relationship with one
Speaker 8: of the cooks at Lefty's. His name was Michael Casper.
Speaker 8: They'd had probably a two week flame where they had
Speaker 8: had sex two or three times at his apartment, and
Speaker 8: Michael Casper had no alibi for that night after Michelle left,
Speaker 8: and again they they didn't do any forensic work at
Speaker 8: his apartment or his vehicle or his person. So so
Speaker 8: those things, to me, we were a bit troubling that
Speaker 8: you know, if you're if you're if you're looking at
Speaker 8: these people as true suspects, then you have to eliminate
Speaker 8: them properly. And I think they spent way too much.
Speaker 8: It gave to way too much credit to the polygraphs
Speaker 8: as a means of eliminating them.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 8: And I'm no big fan of the polygraph for for
Speaker 8: a number of reasons. But so yeah, that I was
Speaker 8: really kind of troubled by by the abbreviated methods they
Speaker 8: used to eliminate suspects. Then there was a even back
Speaker 8: in two thousand and one, there was there was another
Speaker 8: suspect by the name of Stacy Stewart who was a
Speaker 8: patron of lefties who used to come in I always
Speaker 8: ask for a table in Michelle's section, and initially, at
Speaker 8: least he was looked at as a possible suspect. It's
Speaker 8: not It's not clear why they were looking at him
Speaker 8: as a suspect because the information that was released in
Speaker 8: the discovery didn't include any of that information. But for
Speaker 8: some reason, just like Brian Earley and Michael Casper, Stacy
Speaker 8: Stewart was asked to take a polygraph. We don't know why.
Speaker 8: You don't just randomly ask people to take a polygraph
Speaker 8: unless there's some you have a reason to believe that
Speaker 8: they're lying or they've had some type of relationship with
Speaker 8: the victim. Right, And when I'm looking through all of
Speaker 8: the leads, I'm looking for information about Stacy Stewart's polygraph
Speaker 8: and it's not there. Uh, there was no lead taken
Speaker 8: regarding his polygraph, even though the preliminary lead indicated that
Speaker 8: he was scheduled to come in and take one, and
Speaker 8: as it turned out, they never turned that over and
Speaker 8: that that became an issue much later. Eventually we got
Speaker 8: a partial copy of his polygraph, but even then it
Speaker 8: was it was incomplete compared to the polygraphs that were
Speaker 8: taken by other suspects, in particular the conclusion page. I
Speaker 8: thought that was pretty bizarre. But I have to admit
Speaker 8: initially I wasn't looking at Stacy's Stewart as a as
Speaker 8: a viable suspect, because that just wasn't enough information in
Speaker 8: the lead to suggest that. But it wasn't. It wasn't
Speaker 8: until after the first trial. A new witness came forward
Speaker 8: within hours after the cal's first trial conviction, and this
Speaker 8: new witness UH revealed new information that was dynamite, which
Speaker 8: which basically changed the whole dynamics of the investigation and
Speaker 8: and UH, including a new cast of characters, including Stacy Stewart.
Speaker 8: The new witness was Kevin Tubbs. He was a hay
Speaker 8: farmer and and he called in right after the conviction
Speaker 8: UH to Joe Cowley's office and told them he had
Speaker 8: some information that he felt was important enough to pass along.
Speaker 8: And he didn't realize the significance of his information UH
Speaker 8: until he'd read an article in the newspaper about the trial.
Speaker 8: He had misunderstood when Michelle had actually gone missing, and
Speaker 8: as it turns out, he believed he had seen her
Speaker 8: at the foot of the driveway on the morning of
Speaker 8: September twelfth, two thousand and one, arguing with another man,
Speaker 8: not her husband. And he described this man and the
Speaker 8: vehicle he was driving. And it was in the early
Speaker 8: morning hours to just probably between five forty five and
Speaker 8: six AM, so it wasn't total daylight yet, it was
Speaker 8: just starting. But he was pulling a haywagon up the
Speaker 8: road that goes right by the Harris Driveway. Now it's
Speaker 8: called Hagadorn Hill. At the time, it was just a
Speaker 8: dirt road, drainage ditch on both sides, and he's pulling
Speaker 8: a nine foot wide haywagon and so he was concerned
Speaker 8: about whether he'd be able to get by because this
Speaker 8: pickup truck was backed out, angled out into the road
Speaker 8: from the from the nose of the Harris driveway, and
Speaker 8: it was partially blocking the road. So he had to
Speaker 8: swing way over to his left, hoping that he could
Speaker 8: squeeze by without going in the ditch and losing his load.
Speaker 8: So as a result, he was just creeping by. Uh
Speaker 8: and and and as he as he was going by,
Speaker 8: he looks over and he sees a woman who he
Speaker 8: thinks is Michelle Harris. Uh and he's in this other
Speaker 8: young man with dark hair, and and and Michelle appeared
Speaker 8: to have been crying or at least upset.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 8: And he and he remembered glaring right at, you know,
Speaker 8: making eye contact with the young man, so he he
Speaker 8: was able to describe him quite well, as well as
Speaker 8: his vehicle. Uh. But Michelle hadn't hadn't signaled that she
Speaker 8: was in any kind of danger or trouble, So he
Speaker 8: just continued on his way. And then we learned much
Speaker 8: later that there was actually a second man who came
Speaker 8: by and described almost the identical thing. His name was
Speaker 8: John Steele. He was driving up pagodor On Hill Road
Speaker 8: around the same time with a companion and and he
Speaker 8: described almost the same thing. He was a young man
Speaker 8: arguing with an older a woman who was older than
Speaker 8: he was, with blonde hair and dark colored truck. But
Speaker 8: in his case, as he was driving slowly by, you know,
Speaker 8: he had the passenger window of his truck was down,
Speaker 8: and he and he heard the young man say, just
Speaker 8: get in the car, just get in the damn car,
Speaker 8: you know, in an argumentative type voice. But like but
Speaker 8: like with Kevin Tubbs, he didn't He didn't see the
Speaker 8: woman making any signals that she needed help, so he
Speaker 8: continued on his way, so neither one of them stopped. Unfortunately,
Speaker 8: Kevin Tubbs told me later, he says, I wish, I
Speaker 8: wish he'd said something, because I would have gotten out
Speaker 8: and beating the snot out of him, and he would
Speaker 8: have Kevin was a big guy, and maybe we wouldn't
Speaker 8: have this conversation if he'd done that. But anyway, it
Speaker 8: was so based on Kevin Tubbs's revelation kind of changed
Speaker 8: everything from uh for the defense, and it was fortunate
Speaker 8: that he came to the defense first. So for the
Speaker 8: next four months after his disclosure. I started investigating not
Speaker 8: only Kevin Tubbs, but also what he had seen, and
Speaker 8: it took me back to UH, the lead regarding Stacy Stewart.
Speaker 8: And I'm looking through the lead and I find out
Speaker 8: there's a They had done some background on Stacy Stewart,
Speaker 8: including a criminal history and a and a motor vehicle
Speaker 8: report and uh so he he fit the physical description
Speaker 8: described by Kevin Tubbs, and he drove a truck that
Speaker 8: matched the description. So I was, you know, that's that
Speaker 8: sent up a red flag for me. So I wanted
Speaker 8: to learn more about Stacy Stewart. So I started looking
Speaker 8: a little closer at him, and I actually got one
Speaker 8: of my colleagues involved to help me. His name is
Speaker 8: Frank Roney. Uh. He lived in Tywer County, so he
Speaker 8: was more familiar with the area than I was. So
Speaker 8: he agreed to come on board and help me gather
Speaker 8: more information on Stacy Stewart and his UH and his associates.
Speaker 8: So he did at and it just kind of snowballed
Speaker 8: from there. Everything I learned about Stacy Stewart was pointing
Speaker 8: to him as that that he had some type of
Speaker 8: involvement with Michelle Harris Ultimately it led to Frank and
Speaker 8: I going to Texas and speaking with witnesses. The first
Speaker 8: time we went to Texas, we couldn't find Stacy. He
Speaker 8: knew we were in town, but his cousin that we
Speaker 8: talked to, you know, wouldn't tell us where he was
Speaker 8: or how to get a hold of him. But we
Speaker 8: ended up going back about a year and a half
Speaker 8: later after we developed more information, and this time we
Speaker 8: did find him. He was working as a corrections officer
Speaker 8: for the department of the Texas Department of Corrections and
Speaker 8: he was living right on the campus at the Ferguson
Speaker 8: Prison unit in Texas, and we found him home. Uh.
Speaker 8: He'd divorced his first wife. He was married to a
Speaker 8: second wife, and we we had about a half hour
Speaker 8: conversation with him there in his house, and we didn't
Speaker 8: like the way it went.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 8: He was obviously lying to us, and we could tell
Speaker 8: by the look in his eye he didn't want us there.
Speaker 8: And uh, it's hard to describe the look in his eye,
Speaker 8: but we knew that he was just making stuff up
Speaker 8: as we went along. And while we were there, we
Speaker 8: actually uh talked to one of his cohorts that had
Speaker 8: been up to New York with him. His name is
Speaker 8: Chris Thomason, and the two of them were best buds.
Speaker 8: At least they were, but when we started questioning both
Speaker 8: of them, they started pointing a finger at each other,
Speaker 8: playing that the other the other one was having a
Speaker 8: relationship with Michelle Harrison that so that that just raised
Speaker 8: our suspense even further.
Speaker 7: Well, it's interesting how I got to say, you you
Speaker 7: seem to play these people against each other somewhat in
Speaker 7: believing that Stacy Stewart was more so the perpetrator, not
Speaker 7: saying that he may have did this alone. But in
Speaker 7: terms of getting information from Chris Thomason, you get corroboration
Speaker 7: that the story that he originally told that he on
Speaker 7: that day that he went to work early, that these
Speaker 7: guys never went to work early. The other interesting and
Speaker 7: fascinating part and vivid part of this book is when
Speaker 7: you find out about the property that he owned, and
Speaker 7: then the cement pad tell us about this and that search.
Speaker 7: Where as a reader, we think we might be privy
Speaker 7: to something very very amazing going on with the cement
Speaker 7: pad tell us about this.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was, It's pretty pretty interesting. Out all developed
Speaker 8: as I started taking a closer look at at Stacey.
Speaker 8: One of the things I wanted to do was was
Speaker 8: to learn more about Uh, this house that he bought
Speaker 8: up in the woods, it's just a it's just a
Speaker 8: little log cabin. It sat on about four acres of property, uh,
Speaker 8: in a wilderness area with a little pond out front.
Speaker 8: But when I started checking the records, the real property records,
Speaker 8: I discovered that he had he had purchased the property
Speaker 8: only about three weeks before Michelle disappeared, and uh, he
Speaker 8: never he never made the first payment on his property.
Speaker 8: It was a very affordable mortgage agreement that he signed
Speaker 8: with City Bank, like fourign and bucks, and he was
Speaker 8: he was making real good money there where he was
Speaker 8: working at the steel plant. But he never made the
Speaker 8: first payment, which happened to be due on September fifteenth,
Speaker 8: so about three days after Michelle went missing. And they
Speaker 8: never made any other payments.
Speaker 7: And then.
Speaker 8: So he started getting the bank started to send notices
Speaker 8: to him, to foreclosure notices, and it turned out that
Speaker 8: they did foreclosed on the property and then I believe
Speaker 8: February of two thousand and two. But just prior to
Speaker 8: that becoming official, he had him and Chris Thomason had
Speaker 8: packed up and moved back to Texas. So it was
Speaker 8: pretty interesting, you know, how all of these things started
Speaker 8: to happen when we reached out to some of Stacey
Speaker 8: and Chris's co workers at the Newcore Steel plant where
Speaker 8: they worked. They worked there as welders on assembly lines,
Speaker 8: you know, manufacturing steel trustes for commercial industrial buildings. They
Speaker 8: were both very good welders, but it was line work
Speaker 8: and at the time they were working twelve hour shifts,
Speaker 8: six in the morning till six at night. And one
Speaker 8: of the things that jumped out at me with Stacy
Speaker 8: Stewart was that when he was first interviewed by the police,
Speaker 8: he told them that on the morning of September twelfth,
Speaker 8: he'd gone into work between four and five am. Well,
Speaker 8: you know, we got his time cards and looked at him,
Speaker 8: and there were no entries on his time cards at
Speaker 8: four or five am. And everybody we talked to, including
Speaker 8: his former supervisor and other coworkers and the safety director,
Speaker 8: one of them cooberated that anyone would ever go in
Speaker 8: that early. They said it was line work. Assembly line work.
Speaker 8: You couldn't do anything until everybody was there. There be
Speaker 8: nothing to do if you went in that early, so
Speaker 8: that became a real suspicious thing for us. But at
Speaker 8: that time, of course we did. We didn't discover this
Speaker 8: until Kevin Tubbs came forward, you know, six years into this.
Speaker 8: But at the time, back in two thousand and one,
Speaker 8: when the police first interviewed Stacy Stewart, that four to
Speaker 8: five am time frame wouldn't have been significant to them
Speaker 8: because they believed Michelle had been killed around midnight at
Speaker 8: home by her husband. But when you look at the
Speaker 8: revelations of Kevin Tubbs and he sees Michelle with with
Speaker 8: a young man with short, dark hair around six o'clock
Speaker 8: in the morning, that kind of changes the whole theory
Speaker 8: as to when Michelle was killed or abducted, and it
Speaker 8: just happened to be around six o'clock in the morning
Speaker 8: when Stacy was supposed to be at work. So it
Speaker 8: was our belief that the reason he told the police
Speaker 8: that he had gone to work between four and five
Speaker 8: was to establish an alibi for himself.
Speaker 7: Now, we have to summarize what happens, and we did
Speaker 7: in the introduction, right in the introduction, what happens in
Speaker 7: the first trial, he's convicted, he's out on bail, the
Speaker 7: second trial. The third trial, you have you have different personnel.
Speaker 7: In the third trial, he's different defense attorney. Tell us
Speaker 7: about this, summarize what happens in these trials. So we
Speaker 7: get to the fourth trial.
Speaker 8: Yeah, after Kel was after he won his appeal the
Speaker 8: second trial, he got released from prison in two thousand
Speaker 8: and I believe it was October of twenty twelve, and
Speaker 8: he hired a new attorney by the name of Bruce Barquette.
Speaker 8: He had a large law from down in Garden City,
Speaker 8: New York, on Long Island, Long Island, and of course
Speaker 8: he had his own team of attorneys and other investigators
Speaker 8: down there, so they became involved and we had a
Speaker 8: much bigger defense team now. But I stayed on as
Speaker 8: the lead investigator and consultant because of my involvement from
Speaker 8: the beginning, and Bruce took on a very aggressive approach,
Speaker 8: and when the case finally went to trial, the third trial,
Speaker 8: it was finally held in a new venue up in
Speaker 8: Harry County, New York, which was one hundred and twenty
Speaker 8: five miles away from the Wigo, so we felt we
Speaker 8: could get a much fairer trial there. But it turned
Speaker 8: out the trial dragged on for like almost twelve weeks,
Speaker 8: and then when the jury deliberated, they deliberated for like
Speaker 8: eleven days and couldn't reach a verdict. Even even after
Speaker 8: they were sent back in a couple of times to try,
Speaker 8: they couldn't. They were virtually split down the middle. So
Speaker 8: it was it resulted in a mistrial. But one of
Speaker 8: the things that Bruce had asked for and was denied
Speaker 8: during the third trial was was the was the opportunity
Speaker 8: to present evidence in support of what we call third
Speaker 8: party culpability, meaning evidence that supports the belief that someone
Speaker 8: other than call Paris was responsible, and that that motion
Speaker 8: got denied. But but after the mistrial and they decided
Speaker 8: to go to a fourth trial, Bruce, you know, got
Speaker 8: together with the defense team and he said, you know,
Speaker 8: I want to we're getting a new judge. I want
Speaker 8: to renew my third party culpability argument, but but I
Speaker 8: need something more. So, uh, we did a couple of things.
Speaker 8: One of them, we decided to uh excavate the burn
Speaker 8: pit on Stacy Stewart's property because some witnesses had told
Speaker 8: us that there'd been a burning of bloody clothes there.
Speaker 8: So we arranged to do that with an archaeological uh
Speaker 8: UH a group from a college in Pennsylvania. They came up,
Speaker 8: they dug up the burn pit, they recovered some items
Speaker 8: and and UH all of all of the every item
Speaker 8: that was found was at least circumstantially linked to Michelle Harris.
Speaker 8: We couldn't positively say it was her because there was
Speaker 8: no DNA found. It had just been too long a
Speaker 8: time of the evidence exposed to the heat and to
Speaker 8: the elements.
Speaker 7: UH.
Speaker 8: But circumstantially the evidence was pretty strong. So so we
Speaker 8: made we made those arguments before the fourth trial. In
Speaker 8: the in the judge finally said that he would allow
Speaker 8: the presentation of third party culpability to a limited extent.
Speaker 8: So that was a that was a pretty good favorable
Speaker 8: decision and as a result we were able to bring
Speaker 8: in UH witnesses who described the burning of bloody closed
Speaker 8: up at Stewart's property, and then a couple of students
Speaker 8: from the archaeological dig who described the items that were found. H.
Speaker 8: So we felt that was an important thing for the
Speaker 8: judge to know and just other readers know. The fourth
Speaker 8: trial was actually uh cal decided to waive a jury
Speaker 8: and go with a bench trial, which is a pretty
Speaker 8: risky decision, but under the circumstances, we felt that was
Speaker 8: the right one because we really didn't think we could
Speaker 8: expect a different result with a jury other than a mistrial.
Speaker 8: So as it turned out, that was it was a
Speaker 8: real good decision, and we had a real good judge presiding,
Speaker 8: so that made all the difference. And quick, just quickly, Uh,
Speaker 8: you had mentioned uh, the uh tearing up the concrete floor. H. Yeah.
Speaker 8: We had actually developed information from a couple of witnesses
Speaker 8: that that when Stacy H bought his little cabin in
Speaker 8: the woods, that he had a barn there or like
Speaker 8: an outbuilding where he kept his ATVs that he rode,
Speaker 8: and all indications were he had poured the concrete in
Speaker 8: the floor of the garage after Michelle went missing, but
Speaker 8: we couldn't confirm that. We tried. We reached out the
Speaker 8: contract concrete dealers and contractors, but you know, several years
Speaker 8: had passed and their record I think wasn't the greatest,
Speaker 8: so we were never able to confirm when the concrete
Speaker 8: was poured. But we were still interested in whether or
Speaker 8: not he might have used the concrete to help hide
Speaker 8: the body. So before we started digging, we brought in
Speaker 8: ground penetrating radar and had them scan the garage floor
Speaker 8: and it was it was, it was. It was not
Speaker 8: a real definitive uh scan, but there was some type
Speaker 8: of mass large enough to be a human body underneath
Speaker 8: the concrete. UH. So we decided to go ahead and
Speaker 8: tear up the concrete, which which we did ourselves jackhammers
Speaker 8: and whatever. It took front end loaders, and we examined
Speaker 8: every piece of concrete we pulled out of the air,
Speaker 8: and then once the concrete was out, we dug down
Speaker 8: six feet more and we were really optimistic at one
Speaker 8: point that we might find her, but we never did.
Speaker 8: We were disappointed, but but we kept we kept looking,
Speaker 8: and we ended up digging up an old Well what
Speaker 8: else did we do out there? We had diver searched
Speaker 8: the pond. So we were doing as much as this
Speaker 8: on Stacy Stewart's property as the state police were doing
Speaker 8: on cows, but we were coming up empty. Also, one
Speaker 8: of the things that I should note about the items
Speaker 8: in the burn pit, when we when we asked to
Speaker 8: use those items as evidence in the trial, they were denied,
Speaker 8: even though they were circumstantially linked to Michelle. And but
Speaker 8: you know, Bruce made the argument, and I totally agree that,
Speaker 8: you know, had had those same items been found in
Speaker 8: a burn pit on Col's property, there was no doubt
Speaker 8: that they would have been used against him.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yes, it's very fascinating too for people that are
Speaker 7: going to take to take the time to read this,
Speaker 7: that the Kevin Tubbs really changed this case in this
Speaker 7: trial and and Calvin cal Harris's future, but also that
Speaker 7: once he was on the stand, and the attack on
Speaker 7: his credibility and his character and then his responses because
Speaker 7: he said I'm not going to take it. He had
Speaker 7: experience with the state police and say he was not
Speaker 7: going to take it, and and so he certainly didn't.
Speaker 7: And fascinating for you to have this as part of
Speaker 7: the book, his defiant testimony and his success in being
Speaker 7: able to change the course of this case completely.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Kevin, in my opinion, he's kind of the hero here.
Speaker 8: You know, he didn't he didn't have to come forward.
Speaker 8: He told me more than once he said, I'm just
Speaker 8: trying to do the right thing. And they and they, they,
Speaker 8: they they attacked his credibility and then uh, and one
Speaker 8: of the other disappointing thing for me was, uh, you
Speaker 8: know when I, when I developed all of these all
Speaker 8: of this information about Stacy Stewart and Chris Thomasin actually
Speaker 8: went to the State Police and had a meeting with them,
Speaker 8: and he tried to convince them to pick up where
Speaker 8: I left off and to pursue Stacy Steward and Chris
Speaker 8: Thomason to the next level, you know, with their with
Speaker 8: their authority and and uh uh uh yeah, and their
Speaker 8: their resources, they could have in my opinion, I think
Speaker 8: the case could have been solved. But they chose not
Speaker 8: to do that. And that still disturbs me that because
Speaker 8: I know how aggressive they can be when they pursue
Speaker 8: a suspect, and when it came to Stacy Stewart, they
Speaker 8: just didn't want to go there.
Speaker 7: M you don't paint You don't paint a good picture
Speaker 7: of the conduct of many of the players in this,
Speaker 7: including Sulmolvy and and the State Police itself. Once they
Speaker 7: had their target set and what their site set on there,
Speaker 7: I don't know who they wanted to prosecute. And you
Speaker 7: cite all of this in your book before I before
Speaker 7: you wrap up, what do you think really happened? As
Speaker 7: you write in the book, what are your what are
Speaker 7: your conclusions on what happened and why.
Speaker 8: I can't say. I can't say I don't have a
Speaker 8: posit the conclusion, but I have a reasonable hypothesis based
Speaker 8: on what my own investigation and what I learned from
Speaker 8: witnesses that we talked to. After Kevin Tubbs came forward
Speaker 8: and I started looking at Stacy Stewart more closely, I
Speaker 8: believe that there was that when Michelle left Brian Early's
Speaker 8: house that night, she didn't go home. She went back
Speaker 8: and met up with Stacy Stewart at the nightclub. They
Speaker 8: danced and drank, got drunk together, and then the party
Speaker 8: continued up at his house. And I think Stacey had
Speaker 8: a couple of friends there, Chris thomasin and Right Shoulders,
Speaker 8: and she may have thought there was safety in numbers,
Speaker 8: but they had other things in mind, and I think
Speaker 8: she married. They may very well have been sexually assaulted.
Speaker 8: And then when she tried to go home, you know,
Speaker 8: Stacy knew that would be trouble for him if if
Speaker 8: she said anything, so he follows her and stops her
Speaker 8: at the end of the driveway. He's arguing with her,
Speaker 8: demanding that she get in the car. She's begging with him.
Speaker 8: Then along comes Kevin Tubbs, he sees what he sees,
Speaker 8: and then John Steele comes by, and then here's Stacy
Speaker 8: selling you know, get in the car, getting the damn car.
Speaker 8: And then after he's out of sight, Michelle's abducted by Stacy,
Speaker 8: and when when she realizes that her chances of survival
Speaker 8: are not good if she if he gets her back
Speaker 8: to his cabin, she decides to save herself. But unfortunately,
Speaker 8: even though she probably fought very heroically, he overpowered her
Speaker 8: and stabbed her right there in the truck and just
Speaker 8: real quickly, we also caught up to and found Stacy's
Speaker 8: old truck down in Louisiana and had it examined it. Unfortunately,
Speaker 8: it's now been you know, fourteen years later, but there
Speaker 8: was still traces of blood on the back seat and
Speaker 8: behind the door panels on the passenger side that tested
Speaker 8: positive for blood, but only a partial DNA profile could
Speaker 8: be established, so we couldn't conclusively say that it was
Speaker 8: Michelle's blood. But interestingly, we also found a diamond studded
Speaker 8: earring wedged in the seat belt retractor on the passenger
Speaker 8: side that looked an awful lot like one of the
Speaker 8: ear rings Michelle would where when you look at some
Speaker 8: of her photographs and it was all it was all
Speaker 8: pitted and tarnished, but it was still intact. And there
Speaker 8: was a DNA profile on there that was inconclusive, but
Speaker 8: the one that was there could not eliminate Michelle.
Speaker 7: Yeah, just an amazing story and we just we just
Speaker 7: touched on it tonight certainly.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, just just touched on it. So I would encourage
Speaker 8: anybody who wants to learn more to read the book,
Speaker 8: and uh, you'll learn everything.
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely. I want to thank you very much for
Speaker 7: coming on and talking about Reign of Injustice to Carol
Speaker 7: Harris story. David M. Beers, is there a website, Facebook page,
Speaker 7: or or just an Amazon page for them to take
Speaker 7: a look at this?
Speaker 8: And probably the best way right now? I think eventually
Speaker 8: I'm going to put together a web page, but I
Speaker 8: I haven't done that yet. I do have an email
Speaker 8: that I set up just for the book. It's it's
Speaker 8: David Mbeers dot author at gmail dot com. Uh, and
Speaker 8: you can you can learn quite a bit by just
Speaker 8: going to Google on Amazon or whatever and just type
Speaker 8: in the title Reign of Injustice and everything will come up.
Speaker 7: Yes, I want to thank you very much, David Mbers
Speaker 7: for coming on and talking about Reignom Injustice to Cal
Speaker 7: Harris story. It is a fantastic investigation. I applaud you
Speaker 7: for your incredible, exhaustive investigation and this extraordinary book and
Speaker 7: chronicling this amazing case. I want to thank you very much,
Speaker 7: David M. Beers.
Speaker 8: Well, thanks for having me, thank you, thank you, good night, Thanks,
Speaker 8: good night,