WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Jen and I Weather forecast heat advisory in effect till

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<v Speaker 1>eight pm. Good news for the week weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Hold on today's high ninety three feeling more like one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and three degrees, very slim chance of rain overnight's

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<v Speaker 2>and clear skies seventy two for below eighty three are

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<v Speaker 2>high tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>Though we're supposed to get some rain between nine am

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<v Speaker 1>and five pms.

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<v Speaker 2>Rain moves out of a night down to sixty five

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<v Speaker 2>and a cool, refreshing eighty degrees for the high on Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>and they say prepare for a wonderful weekend weatherwise seventy six.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, time for a travel up day.

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<v Speaker 3>Chuck Ingram from the UC Help Traffic Center u See

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<v Speaker 3>Health Weight Loss Center offers Sergic Cohen Medical ob CD

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<v Speaker 3>care and expertise called five one three nine three nine

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<v Speaker 3>two two six three that's nine three nine twenty two

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<v Speaker 3>sixty three Highway traffic is a slow go southbound seventy five,

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<v Speaker 3>especially there was a broken down in the center lane

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<v Speaker 3>in milonch one split.

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<v Speaker 1>They blocked off the right lane.

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<v Speaker 3>Too clear now, but it's over a twenty minute to

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<v Speaker 3>lay out of Sharonville northbound seventy five Heavy US between

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<v Speaker 3>Buttermilk and downtown. Coming up next, guest who is tanned

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<v Speaker 3>and rests it up from vacation and ready to go

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<v Speaker 3>fine school supplies the judges. Next, Chuck Ingram month fifty

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<v Speaker 3>five krs the talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Station, Hey, thirty fifty five kar see the talk station

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<v Speaker 2>Judge Napolitana with his brand new package of number two pencils.

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<v Speaker 1>He's ready for school.

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<v Speaker 4>Welcome back, always ready for school.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you Chuck Ingram, Thank you Brian, Thank you Joe Stricker.

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<v Speaker 4>What a pleasure to be back with you guys, all

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<v Speaker 4>the best to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Really missed having you on when you were gone. Understand

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<v Speaker 2>the need for vacation, and I hope you had a

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<v Speaker 2>nice one.

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<v Speaker 4>I did, I did.

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<v Speaker 5>I was in Berlin, Zurich, and a week at Lake

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<v Speaker 5>Como was just beautiful, just lovely, so all the friends

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<v Speaker 5>I wanted to see. It was a great, great vacation.

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<v Speaker 5>But after a while you think that's time to get productive.

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<v Speaker 2>Again, get back to the farm and get some work done. Anyhow,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a pleasure having you back in the program, and

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<v Speaker 2>I thoroughly enjoyed, as I always do your column. Can

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<v Speaker 2>the President impose taxes? The question asked that to lead

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<v Speaker 2>into the column. Then this boils down to a conversation

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<v Speaker 2>an ilegal analysis of tariffs trum.

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<v Speaker 5>This is going to be argued tomorrow, Thursday, July thirty first,

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<v Speaker 5>before the Federal Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit

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<v Speaker 5>in DC. There will not be an empty seat in

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<v Speaker 5>the House. They've already had to put screens up in

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<v Speaker 5>other rooms.

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<v Speaker 4>There's such an interest in it.

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<v Speaker 5>The belief amongst those of us in the legal community

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<v Speaker 5>that monitor these things.

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<v Speaker 4>Is that the lower court will be upheld.

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<v Speaker 5>And the tariffs will the declaration that the tariffs are

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<v Speaker 5>unconstitutional because only Congress can impose a tax, and a

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<v Speaker 5>tariff is a tax.

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<v Speaker 4>No matter what Donald Trump calls.

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<v Speaker 5>It will be the law of the land. This will

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<v Speaker 5>have an unbelievable effect on the president's daily negotiations.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, now they're not going to rule from the bench.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the end of July.

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<v Speaker 5>I would guess a decision wouldn't come out until after

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<v Speaker 5>Labor Day.

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<v Speaker 2>And presumably if it does uphol the lower court's opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>which was these are taxes and he does not have

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<v Speaker 2>the power to do this, the likelihood of appeal is strong.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to end up in the Supreme Court on

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<v Speaker 2>this one. The chance of a graining of a retisserciara

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<v Speaker 2>on this I suppose it is pretty high.

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<v Speaker 1>If that's what I.

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<v Speaker 5>Think the Supreme Court, even though there's no split in

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<v Speaker 5>the circuits possible here, because this is the only court

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<v Speaker 5>that can hear this.

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<v Speaker 4>Meaning, this is not a case.

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<v Speaker 5>Where a judge in California said one thing and the

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<v Speaker 5>ninth Circuit agreed, and the judge in Massachusetts said the

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<v Speaker 5>opposite and the first circuit agreed. No, this is the

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<v Speaker 5>only court that has the jurisdiction to address tariffs, the

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<v Speaker 5>US International Court of Trade, which sits here in Manhattan,

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<v Speaker 5>and now the Appellate Court for this Court in DC.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think the Supreme Court will want to hear this,

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<v Speaker 5>even though it seems to me pretty obvious. The president

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<v Speaker 5>doesn't have the power to impose a tax. Look, tariffs

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<v Speaker 5>have been around since the colonial era. Jefferson and company

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<v Speaker 5>loved them. They were a principal mechanism for funding the

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<v Speaker 5>federal government. But they were enacted by Congress. They were

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<v Speaker 5>not imposed by the president. The Constitution couldn't be clearer.

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<v Speaker 5>All legislative power here and granted shall be in a

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<v Speaker 5>Congress of the United States. The first power articulated to

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<v Speaker 5>Congress Article one, Section eight, the power delay and collect taxes.

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<v Speaker 5>It's clear as can be that only Congress can impose attacks.

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<v Speaker 4>Congress can tax anything at once.

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<v Speaker 5>If Congress doesn't wan want me to wear a red tie,

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<v Speaker 5>they cannot enact or regulation banning red ties.

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<v Speaker 4>They don't have the authority to do that.

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<v Speaker 5>They could ban them an interstate commerce or they could

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<v Speaker 5>tax the daylights out of it so that I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 5>buy one. They clearly can impose tariffs. Nobody else can.

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<v Speaker 2>Now the tariffs that are currently in place, and I

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<v Speaker 2>mean he's tinkering with things that currently exist, raising them

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<v Speaker 2>where he wants to raise them in no order to

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<v Speaker 2>get you know, this seems to be a critical component

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<v Speaker 2>to his foreign policy strategy. I note, for example, that

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<v Speaker 2>he's threatening Russia with sanctions and additional tariffs if they

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<v Speaker 2>continue to fund this war with Ukraine, so that power

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<v Speaker 2>will be taken away. Is there an argument in there

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<v Speaker 2>that this is not This is in taxas is terriffs,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's related to foreign policy, and Donald Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive authority under the Constitution to deal with matters of

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<v Speaker 2>foreign policy.

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<v Speaker 5>Probably the government's strongest argument is that this is a

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<v Speaker 5>matter of foreign policy and therefore immune from judicial review.

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<v Speaker 5>The lower court dismissed that summarily, saying it is a

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<v Speaker 5>matter of foreign policy, but the president is doing it

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<v Speaker 5>for non foreign policy reasons. He's doing it because of

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<v Speaker 5>an imbalance of trade. He's doing it because he's been

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<v Speaker 5>insulted by foreign leaders, he's doing it because it doesn't

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<v Speaker 5>like a criminal case going on in Brazil. And whatever

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<v Speaker 5>he does, it is still subject to the Constitution. Though

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<v Speaker 5>the president has privacy, he doesn't have total domination. His

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<v Speaker 5>ambassadors have to be confirmed, he needs a budget from

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<v Speaker 5>the Congress. He can't declare war. He still has to

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<v Speaker 5>respect the Bill of Rights, so there are other constraints

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<v Speaker 5>still on his ability to run foreign policy.

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<v Speaker 4>He cites a statute. It's an interesting statute.

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<v Speaker 5>I think these emergency laws are all unconstitutional because the

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<v Speaker 5>Supreme Court has consistently said there are no emergency powers

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<v Speaker 5>in the Constitution. It applies in good times in badtheless.

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<v Speaker 5>In nineteen seventy seven and the Carter era, the Congress

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<v Speaker 5>and acted and President Carter signed into law giving the

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<v Speaker 5>president emergency powers in the case of an economic emergency.

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<v Speaker 5>And it allows him to do a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 5>Tariffs is not in there. The very statute that he

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<v Speaker 5>cited for a support his lawyers didn't even read.

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<v Speaker 4>It doesn't authorize the presidential imposition of tariffs.

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<v Speaker 5>It allows him to do a lot of things, ban products,

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<v Speaker 5>sanction products, even imposed wage and price controls. It does

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<v Speaker 5>not permit tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and there's an argument you've made in there, unless

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<v Speaker 2>it's been tested in arguing for the Supreme Court, that

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<v Speaker 2>that's an unconstitutional delegation of congressional authority to the president.

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<v Speaker 4>It absolutely is. It absolutely is.

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<v Speaker 5>And Brian, the lower court did something I've never seen before.

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<v Speaker 5>When the DOJ said it's not attacks, the lower court

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<v Speaker 5>said it is. But even if it weren't, no matter

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<v Speaker 5>what you call it, Congress can't give its power away

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<v Speaker 5>to the president. That would violate the separation of powers.

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<v Speaker 5>So the lower court covered the full gamut of legal

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<v Speaker 5>issues implicated by this. I think that Trump entered office,

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<v Speaker 5>I can't get into his brain, of course, held bent

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<v Speaker 5>on using tariffs as an instrument to effectuate his will.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, irrespective irrespective of the constitutional constraints that he

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<v Speaker 5>swore to uphold.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I think he felt strongly that tariffs are

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<v Speaker 2>not taxes, and because the congressional power had the power

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<v Speaker 2>to lay and collect taxes, he believed, you know, fundamentally,

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<v Speaker 2>the tariffs are not taxes. Ergo he's allowed to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Is he the first president or only presidents who just

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<v Speaker 2>arbitraris I'll say arbitrarily, Maybe that's an incorrect word to use,

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<v Speaker 2>but to just pick and choose what taxes or what

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<v Speaker 2>tariffs he wants the levee on you given country. There

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<v Speaker 2>is there any precedent for a president doing that.

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<v Speaker 5>The closest precedent is a case called Curtis Right. This

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<v Speaker 5>is nineteen thirty six, so we're at the height of

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<v Speaker 5>the depression. Congress gave the president then FDR, the power

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<v Speaker 5>to determine what could be exported and imported on his

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<v Speaker 5>own and make it a crime to violate what he

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<v Speaker 5>decided couldn't be exported and imported. Curtis Right was a

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<v Speaker 5>manufacturer of weapons, and they sold it to the country Oblivia.

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<v Speaker 5>And even though Congress never prohibited, only the president did.

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<v Speaker 5>The court allowed the prosecution to go forward. That's about

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<v Speaker 5>the closest there is. It's not a tariff, but it

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<v Speaker 5>makes criminal the violation of an executive order banning the

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<v Speaker 5>exportation of certain goods. Short answer to your question is,

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<v Speaker 5>no president has ever imposed tariffs on his own. The

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<v Speaker 5>closest we have is this FDR thing. But FDR didn't

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<v Speaker 5>need to do it on his own. He had a

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<v Speaker 5>very compliant Congress for all twelve years office.

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<v Speaker 1>We all know that he did.

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<v Speaker 4>That's why we have so many problems today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and I guess the lower court opinion has

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<v Speaker 2>it been stayed pending outcome on appeal because he's still

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<v Speaker 2>at it. I mean, he's negotiating.

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<v Speaker 5>They stayed it on their own, which is the smart

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<v Speaker 5>thing to do, rather than aggravate the appellate court, and

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<v Speaker 5>forced them to do so in the middle of the summer.

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<v Speaker 5>So the lower court stayed its opinion pending appeal.

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<v Speaker 4>So he is. He is still at it.

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<v Speaker 5>The interesting thing would be if they had not stayed it,

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<v Speaker 5>would he still be at it?

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<v Speaker 1>Right? Creates an academic question.

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<v Speaker 4>Because his DOJ.

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<v Speaker 5>Is the most flagrant violators of court orders I've ever seen.

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<v Speaker 5>One of the principal architects of those violations was just

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<v Speaker 5>made a federal appellate judge.

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<v Speaker 1>Night. Here we go, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Very briefly, since we're out of Tom Judge and Polatano.

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<v Speaker 2>The outcome, let's assume, for the sake of discussion throughout

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<v Speaker 2>it goes to the legal system, these things, the terrorifts,

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<v Speaker 2>R and D taxes. He does not have the power

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<v Speaker 2>to unilaterally do it. That means all the negotiations that

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<v Speaker 2>he's gone through, sign sealed, and delivered as some are,

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<v Speaker 2>are now gone.

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<v Speaker 4>Correct.

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<v Speaker 5>He would probably ask Congress to enact the terriffs, and

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<v Speaker 5>then you got a problem. Then you've got Republicans saying

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<v Speaker 5>we're never going to raise taxes, deciding to impose national

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<v Speaker 5>sales taxes. Could you imagine that you want to buy

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<v Speaker 5>one hundred thousand dollars Mercedes, but the Republicans that said

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<v Speaker 5>it's going to cost you one hundred and fifteen thousand.

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<v Speaker 4>You want to buy a twenty five dollars toaster.

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<v Speaker 5>But the Republicans are saying it's not going to cost

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<v Speaker 5>you thirty bucks. That's the burden that they do not

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<v Speaker 5>want to have to deal with.

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<v Speaker 4>Prior to the twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>Mid read my lips, no new taxes.

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<v Speaker 4>What happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Then, Yes, we have a profound recollection of that. Judge

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<v Speaker 2>in and Apoltana. Interesting challenge wh just the administration is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be facing what appears to be pretty conclusive

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<v Speaker 2>outcome that you've anticipated based upon the lower court readings.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why we've got you around and make clear sense

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<v Speaker 2>of all this. Judge Enneda Polatano, God bless you so

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<v Speaker 2>happy you're back from vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you had safe travel man.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you to everybody, to your whole team, and look

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<v Speaker 5>forward already in the next Wednesday, All the best, Brian.

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<v Speaker 2>Next Wednesday, my friend appointment listening on the fifty five

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<v Speaker 2>KRS morning show eight forty one. Right now, stick around,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to hear from Claremont County Prosecutor Mark to

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<v Speaker 2>call the congratulations to him and his team.

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<v Speaker 1>They scored a great conviction the other day. We'll learn

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<v Speaker 1>all about that in a moment. Fifty five the talk

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<v Speaker 1>station would and